The White Balance Conspiracy
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- Опубліковано 8 вер 2024
- Is there really such thing as the perfect white balance? Do all cameras agree on what the best white balance is? What camera brand does the most accurate auto white balance. Canon vs Sony vs Fuji vs Olympus. If you custom white balance, will all camera brands look the same? What if you set the Kelvins to the same thing like 4600K?
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If you buy today's gear through my affiliate links, I can go to white balance college to learn the ways of our world. It's about cameras trust me.
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We did learn something. We learned that the Fuji is going on eBay so fast 🤣
“Always shoot canon qnd you might live to talk about it.” Lol best line ever.
Have you tried correcting the white balance using a X-Rite ColorChecker? Would be interesting to see if that would get them to all be the same... or would the result still be different over the different footage.
My monitor needs a calibration. You killed it.
Great stuff from you as usual thanks a lot. I just thought about it and realised that its really only half the problem because after white balancing and then perhaps colour correcting there's another great hurdle to jump and that is the screen the final production is viewed on. Be it a phone, computer monitor or large TV. They all have there own colour casts and inaccuracies even the few that may of been critically calibrated.
Fuji do custom white balance
Fuji: YOU ARE IN MEXICO
Came here to learn about white balance but instead learnt a lot about ibis and digital stabe. Thanks Kasey.
In the film era, with the C41 negative process, Fuji was a warmer process and Kodak produced a colder output, despite both being calibrated every few hours with a pre-exposed negative film test strip and the resultant colours read by a sophisticated colour measuring device.
Photographers used to choose where to get their film processed (Fooj lab or Kodak lab) based on the intended final tone of the image. The Ph value of the developer was one of the main deciding factors, slightly more alkali (controlled by adding sodium hydroxide in 5ml amounts to 20L) made the process warmer, and adding a small amount of acid would make it colder.
I can't remember a time when when white balance 'standards' were anything but different, which stings a bit if you shoot more than one photo system from different manufacturers and try to put together a portfolio of images of one subject shot with different cameras, trying to achieve a uniform look.
I think it’s the other way around, Kodak is known for warmer output. Fuji is known for cooler colors.
@@HesselFolkertsma yes thats how it is now . Although I hear some people report magenta casts at times
@Phillip Banes I think it was more than just film type. If you shot Fuji daylight balanced C41 and Kodak Daylight C41 colour neg under the same conditions, and then processed them in each process you get a different version each time. We tested it years ago when I was a commercial film processor at a pro lab in the eighties. We shot Fujicolour 200 daylight of a studio subject twice. We processed one film in house in our Fuji accredited process and sent the other to the local Kodak lab and the results were different. Kodak results were always cooler looking. The same was true when repeating with Kodak film.
In both cases the processes were controlled to a pre exposed test strip of each film base
Both white balance and tint can vary between two different copies of the same camera because of sensor differences. This is normal and it's why you always calibrate cinema cameras to each other in the prep before shooting.
My Fujis still baffle me with the white balance. Auto is always wrong, but every other setting also seems to have issues. For instance, if I set WB manually without a card, if good skin tone = awful greens... and vice-versa. When Greens look ok, blue skies also look purple. It's also painfully difficult to dial-in manual WB, especially on my X100V. I hate shooting RAW, but I tend towards it more often these days.
It has different algorithms. White priority gets a surgical white in warm lighting even though the eye neverr adapts, so it looks unrealistic. Ambience priority is more natural, closer to what the eyes sees. Auto is usually in the middle, so it works well when you have two types of lighting in the shot.
And btw, never custom bqlance. You cannot really calculate a new matrix from a single white because color error must be optimized for a range of colors, so the color matrix breaks. A proper custom setting requires a colorchecker card.
We need more bird footage or stills with you as narrator!
I’m watching this video on my phone with night-mode turned on, with fluorescent lights in my peripherals in a neon pink room while periodically looking at another uncalibrated monitor just so I can be extra confused.
the sony was way too contrasty. same for the 6dii. pleasant oly, a bit green fuji
Anthony La Pani recently had a video about one of his computer programs he bangs on about - I think Cinematch - can match any cameras white balance and color science. This topic about wonky white balance could be irrelevant for videographers, but not so much for photographers.
You've got to understand that the piece of glass that sits on top of the sensor - called the low pass filter - is a combination UV/IR and blur (AA filter). So it is supposed to cut out Ultra violet light rays from 300 Nano meters to 700 Nano Meters - which is all that humans can see between 300nm to 700nm. Okay but they put in crappy Low pass filters that might let in more UV light, but they definitely have the Infra Red set beyond 700nm to perhaps 780nm to enable the camera user to put on an Infra Red filter that cuts out light below 700nm (Visible light) - and infra red is heat (Temperature). That is used for INfra Red photography, but it requires very long shutter speeds. So our cameras can record things our eyes can't see...........
Now this is part of why the White balance is messed up in so many cameras. The cameras are recording false colors from non-visible light.
I've seen things on insects - paterns - that the naked eye see's, but the camera does not record. Where's the color science in that scenario. Thats because the low pass filter combo UV/IR is cutting out at the wrong points in the visible light spectrum.
Get a Hoya UV/IR cut filter which properly cuts out UV and IR at the right points. Of course the white balance is off because the camera is also partly seeing and recording heat or UV rays in a colorful way.
If you replaced your Low Pass filter with a piece of glass you will have a "Full Spectrum Camera" and could potentially capture ghosts.
Damn that Canon auto white balance looks so pleasing:)
Perfectly balanced, as all things should be
Auto White Balance: You could not live with your own white balance. Where did that bring you? Back to me.
Olympus Custom WB and stabilization for the win!!!
You have to use the grey side of that reflector thingy for manual white balance not the white one. Also set the Sony AWB to white priority if you want accurate colours.
It was set to white priority.
Never have I learnt so much yet nothing and had so much fun doing it.
Fuji and Olympus were by far the best in every test. They seemed to go back and forth in terms of who was winning.
I agree with that. Sony was a bit warmer and Cannon cooler. IBIS hands down Oly
LMAO the 6D Mk II was by far the most natural looking colour. You must live on Mars if you think those 2 had better colours. The Fuji was actually all over the place and same with the Olympus. You might want to view the video on a calibrated monitor and not a smartphone.
@@jameshuddle5111 The Canon was by far the most natural looking which I didn't expect from a 6D Mk II.
Sony 7100 WB the atmosphere still looking like the product of sustained nuclear fallout
Are you using white or neutral gray to custom wb? Should be neutral gray on fuji at least. That's how it gets the K and tint correct at the same time.
Correct.
gray cards are the way
aah .it seems Olympus are really capable at video.if they release ff with all of current tech i would buy it over r5c and any sony. look at that canon.glory upon us with poor 1080p
White Balance is set against 18% gray not the white side mate.
My Cannon M50 say's to take a picture of something white before assigning it as a custom white balance... IDK ? would a white A4 sheet of paper do? Thanks
18% gray cards are for setting exposure not white balance. But yes the white side is also wrong. White balance cards are a completely different thing
@@jlinc187 thanks for your reply. I'm new to the Art. I've been using ISO/Shutter/Aperture for exposure in manual mode.... I'm just not sure what the best settings are for WB or how to correct in while shooting. Thanks
@@jlinc187 What? Absolutely 100% wrong, white balance assumes 18% as natural, so set’s the rest of the colour temps around it. You obviously don’t shoot mate….dear me…. Look on every UA-cam channel on white balance and they use 18% card (grey).
@@FreshnessStudio1 Yes because the camera accounts for that during the conversion process. But manual WB is pick something middle gray and balance of that. It’s super easy….the reason everything was skewed in this video is that he used custom balance (which looks for 18% grey) to balance out and he used white which sent it wobbly.
I really like the white balance on my GH6.
This sounds like a title for internal conflicts in EU and NA.
And everybody sees different colors, brightness and contrast on his monitor or smartphone.
The human eye fixes most of the smaller differences as long as you don't see the clips side by side.
ye if not calibrated
@@Aksunkuvat The fun part on this is, that a lot of the creators are using calibrated monitors and equipment but none of the viewers. If you produce for cinema or Netflix-kind of content, it's obviously important but on UA-cam more than 50% are watching on smartphones and I'm sure less than 0.1% on calibrated monitors.
@@Ulrich.Bierwisch yay, I'm in the 0.1%. :P But I totally agree, I always used to grade my videos in sRGB and not AdobeRGB because I think 99% of people watch it that way.
I've been playing with the Fooj's white balance for a few months . I set Kelvin value to something close to what it ought to be , EG 5000 - 5500 for mainly daylight scenes and then click right again in the WB menu to get to the correction value grid of B-Y and M-G and start correcting via the LCD to get the most natural looking output with respect to the different colours of all the different light sources within a scene. It seems to give better results than relying on auto or 'simple' Kelvin settings on their own
I always add 2 blue on fuji even in auto
@@ared18t There seems to be enough of an adjustment latitude to improve the match between what you're seeing with your eye, and what the camera saves to the card in most cases.
I can't even trust my own eyes' white balance anymore.
This video proves that the best way to set WB - manual. I mean really manual, not by grey card. Just watch in the monitor and set it as you like
The former program analyst in me says that you need to test the bodies with the same lens, which would be the control, in order to really see what differences there are. That's obviously impossible. You could also test each body with several different lenses so you could see what color biases the lenses have. Failing either of those, you wind up just seeing which combo you like best. That isn't scientific but it's really the important point anyway.
On a different note: WTF happened with the sound, especially the first half of the video? So hissy and lots of background noise.
I was next to a highway lol.
And I think setting the cameras to their ‘standard’ profile would have been fair. And it is true and often overlooked, different lenses (especially from different manufacturers) will give you different colours.
You do amazing and right test! We all can learn so mutch by watching your channel!!! Thank you fot great videos!!
Many Kelvins died to bring us this information.
Boy this proves sony color science sucks. If you pause it at the awb comparison the sony somehow manages to make the green leaves in the background green and orange at the same time. For not having nikon in the mix you should be cancelled. And no one shoots Olympus even though they have better color. And for your efforts you deserve one million likes and subs. Edit: AUTUMN leaves and cinetone is great thats why im getting a fx3 Sony cyan be damn
Canon always had the best AWB. No wonder Gerald Undone said so
Anything Gerald says is true. Including Bananus.
@@Kenriko Still have a little bit of buyer remorse after jumping to A7Siii, stay for the spec but I definitely miss my Canon quality of life aspect
Edit: A7Siii not FX3
Did you checked out the original look of the Astia film stock? Looks correct in my eyes! :) but it's a strong 'look' for sure... can you make the same video with all the log profiles? this would be a neutral starting point! Greetings from Berlin :D
Dang that Canon is amazing! Excellent colors!
I just found you through your mini tripods video. I don't necessarily use my camera a lot but I thought you were funny and I liked the chill vibes of the videos. Not trying to be all extra energetic or anything. Had to subscribe after that even if I'm not super big into cameras.
Color is off because your are in a green environment. Your white balance card reflect some green at some point. You can put white foam boards on the ground around you like they do in cinema or fashion shoots.
No one would hate us if we weren't so good.
No one cares about the runner that comes in 7th place, but they do care about the runner that wins almost every race.
Love this video: WB, the bane of my existence (Fuji x-t3).
you shuold use grey card not white card. white card for software WB?
Fantastic comparison, Double thumbs up!
White Balance was never meant to be a standard amongst all cameras. It is a level set respective to each camera/manufacturers color science and sensor. This is so the editor/colorist can color grade and match camera angles/scenes per project across the entire timeline. No one serious uses multiple cameras from different manufacturers in different color profiles and expects them to match. Yes it would be nice if there was a standard for UA-cam hobo scrubs, but the pros have this under control and is not a problem.
if you changed the a7siii to IN or SH colour profile, the colours would look better than standard, the standard profile's yellows aren't flattering
I hope you were downloading WB with that gray card and not the white card you kept showing. The white card is for checking if the color is white but the gray is for WB download
I'm waiting for the black balancing video. On a serious note, I wouldn't white balance on grass. I can see the green on people's skin and avoid shooting on grass if possible. I also hate trees and bushes as background.
Finally getting those 100 cameras to good use!
Using the White Priority setting in the Fuji WB would have worked better.
VIDEO REQUEST!
Fuji White Priority vs Canon Auto WB
just a thought: maybe lens coatings and element materials will mess with the WB. I can't imagine my lens with an amber reflecting front element will render the same as the one that reflects greenish. But i agree, kelvin seems to be just as variable as ISO sensitivity. Change brands or even just camera bodies and all the numbers become nothing more than rough guidelines. just don't time shutter speeds...
Different glass also produces different colors if not use color checkers. That sony thought, lmao. You had a lot green background grass trees which reflects from skin also, can try do same test in the city, results could be different. Fuuj was kinda on the warm side on custom wb, then again would had to be there psychilly to judge how u really looked at that moment and time.
From what I have learnt the different RGB dye used on the pixels could cause colour shift between brands.
I'm assuimh you're referring to the color filter array (which is usally a bayer filter), do you have a source for that? I always assumed that all bayer filters are the same but perhaps not. Then again, you can see the same sensor look different on different manufacturers, because there's also color science. I'm betting most of the difference is the color science, if not all, and the sensor itself should also have some impact but I'm not sure what other contributing factors are there that impacts the colors than the CFA.
@@berkertaskiran The filters are massively different and lenses of each brand are a little different themselves. Then, the transformation to something with proper color on a display is a color matrix that can be calculated in many ways depending on the priorities of the brand. Then, there are different approaches to estimating the white temperature of a scene.
@@aristotle_4532 Do you have a source that I can read about the differences between same type of sensor color filter arrays?
@@berkertaskiran If you google sensors, the datasheets typically include a graph with the filter responses. Some manufacturers go for high purity, some allow infrared and overlay. The color matrix is a mathematical transform that converts the sensor color components to a reference. What the press call color science is this transform which happens in linear light, any additional color controls, and the LUT used to map the linear light to the display gamma.
@@aristotle_4532 I don't see any information regarding the differences in individual bayer filters between different sensors. I can see wavelengths of colors in some data sheets but I am not able to find any information as to what contributes to that (or perhaps I'm not able to understand it as it is more math than I can comprehend.) Whether if it's the specific colors used in bayer filter or something else, like, say, electric voltage or something like that. How about you share some soures with us in this regard?
IR filter is an additional filter used on sensors that is not a part of a CFA and it exists on most digital cameras if not all.
I'm not Sony family, but as my test Sony do the best WB maybe it does green reflex correction on your skin. Becose all other camera has this green and yellow reflex.
Rumors say that Nikon was sulking in a corner as it was not invited to this very important White Balance meeting. Meanwhile, Panasonic doesn't care. They don't even care to launch a new FF camera.
Jokes aside - would be nice if you could rent any Nikon and compare all five brands on colors/WB. Or just have fun tweaking settings to crazy(like a vlog in daylight at 4000 Kelvins)
Olympus seems to have the more accurate and pleasing colors imo.
Olympus seems to me the best..and Fuji close second. Sony is terrible and crushed? What is going on there? Canon is coolish but ok..(Canon is unsharp?)
well its a 6D Mk2 ... it only shoot line skipped 1080p lol
@@JetBen555 wow ok.. did not know that. Always something crippling going on..😉😭
I'm not an expert on 3d pop, but the cannon looked pretty poppy at the end...
Damn Sony be looking it has jaundice
They do often seem to be different but lenses can also change colour rendering.
I just discovered your channel and it saddens me to think about all of the time I wasted watching any other camera channel. I'm not sure if there is any truth to what you're saying in any of these videos, but you make me laugh.
I’ve used the white-card manual white balance for years with my XT1 and now XT4. It’s always worked really well for me. When you did it, all three cameras ended up too yellow. Are you sure you didn’t over-expose the white card? Being a videographer, you might have resisted stopping down or using a high shutter speed. Also, on my Fuji, the instruction prompts on the screen make you think you only need to hit the OK, but you do need to actually release the shutter. I’ve made that mistake myself a few times. Or maybe it’s just a problem with all the these cameras?
or maybe it just plain sucks compared to canon. if you've used one brand. sure, your world is small. but our studios rent different brands and we noticed similar results
Brilliant
Think Canon is the best, the most natural looking too. I can see why people like it so much.
I know this was about WB but holy shit, this was Sony's active stabe? Wow, that jitters are bad!
This may sound counterintuitive, but, it is better to use the gray side of the card for setting white balance, especially when you're using auto exposure. Notice at 7:14 when you raise up the white card your exposure changes, which affects the colors, hence affecting your camera's attempt to AWB the image. The gray side of the card will have less of an effect on your exposure; making it easier for your camera to adjust the white balance.
It's the bayer sensor RGB isn't. The red doesnt just pass red the blue doesnt just pass blue and the green doesn't just pass green. each is mostly passing their primary colour but also some other wave lengths to an extent. In a Black Magic pocket Cinema camera it has very little IR cut which tends to add red into the blacks. The filters are different between brands maybe even between cameras to an extent. So everything is a bit different and brands tend to go for it looks good rather than accurate.
The zeiss is causing a colorcast on the Fuji and oh the Toneh
I've learned to use Multi metering with AWB for wildlife photography. Please correct me if I am wrong and what other WB and metering settings for other types of photography. Cheers 🍕📸
I’m sending my eyes away for their AWB to be recalibrated to match my Canon so everything will look perfect every time.
On my screen the Canon seemed to give you a greenish tone.
I always calibrate my WB a bit cooler than IRL since Fuji likes warm tones. If you keep your WB at 5300k it looks amazing
Canon awe looks super green
Wait, did you use the Astia film simulation on Fuji? I think that's why it makes xh2s seem warmer than usual
exactly
Sony custom WB somehow looks like the G9 to me :o . You're supposed to set custom WB on the grey side btw. I got the impression you WB on white
Glass can throw the camera's auto WB off. My 58 mm Voighty would notoriously do so; and when the main light source was hitting the lens within some specific range of angles, boy, things would turn orange. As to the footage: I liked Sony custom WB best after Canon. Oly tends to like yellowish greens too much for my taste, and Fuji takes it even further.
to my knowledge every lighting condition needs its own white balance PLUS every camerasystems respectively. so a direct comparison is somewhat...rubytuby?
Love the channel. I just bought a shirt and became a member. I'm an asshole.
Oh that Sony bokeh!!
The Sony doesn’t look right to me.
Fuji you should set white balance to white priority.
3D pop on that canon, yeah, the most handsome looking version of you was in the canon
Can you do the white bread conspiracy next....
what about Nikon?
Dude, white balance won’t be the same on all cameras if you apply filters over it. Though it still balances the colour it does so under the effect of the filters applied. In theory, need to shoot them all in RAW, balance with the Grey Card and then compare. They still won’t be the same…ideally, you need to build an individual profile from a colour card for each camera then apply in post for them all to match, then apply filters in post.
Black pro mist doesn't change colour...
@@cameraconspiracies Yes but balancing off White instead of 18% grey does mate, retry it and you will see, I promise.
@@DrunkDelilahBrewery I've done both, they are very different. Been doing the grey side for years, figured I'd try the white. Regardless, they would have all had the same differences and that's the point of the video, to see how different cameras balance the whites.
@@DrunkDelilahBrewery You seem to change your point. Initially you say the filters are an issue and then you say that it’s balancing off a gray and not white card that is a problem…
@@gunn1ng All filters colour the picture to some extent, so I chose not to argue on that point. I am correct in my claim on 18% Grey Card. Unless your camera uses White to set it’s balance and some camera software allows for this, there is a reason why 18% grey exists….but you do you mate.
So, what color is your shirt here? :-) Good stuff, Have a rockin' week....
why so much hepatitis on xh2s?
What about black balance
I have a7iv , a7iii and the canon 6d mk I I think now a days the canon still better en awb .
Great topic and a timely reminder that I need to pack a white reference card in my bag, which brings me to…
Which bag are you using these days? I remember you really liked the PGYTECH OneGo and after watching your review, I’m considering one. (Carrying a - yeah, I know - Olympus OM-1, a handful of lenses, travel tripod, and the usual odds and ends.)
What IS custom WB?
1.Olympus AWB is best for my opinion.
2. Dynamic range. All camera sucks, sky just overexposed white without any details at all :(
No lumix :(
You haven't touched a Nikon in a year. Yes i said it, i said it out load.
And i know what you will say.
"Ohhhh but i touched and looked at the z50 or z30 for about 15 minutes. It told me I have fatty fingers so i didn't like the attitude of this electronic device".
That T-Shirt colour is all over the place ... 😓
the Nikon Z9 image looking good too imho. perhaps a bit darker than others but otherwise fine.
You saw DP Reviews review of the Techart LM-EA9 right? you're gonna get that right? RIGHT?! that would be fantastic thanks
The Canon is the best, followed by the Olympus, then the Fuji, then the Sony.
Sony too dramatic, far from natural. Canon nice. Olympus was pretty good after davinci, Fuji green.
I put my monitor in mono....and now everything is sorted.....although could you darken the shadow a bit 🤣