The 93% Myth: That Stat That Says Fathers Are More Important Than Mothers Is Made Up!
Вставка
- Опубліковано 5 жов 2024
- Ever heard the stat from “a recent study” that found that, when a husband comes to Christ first, in 93% of cases the wife and kids follow, but when the wife comes to Christ first, it’s only 17%? That stat is EVERYWHERE, quoted by the head of the SBC; heads of seminaries; heads of counseling organizations. The problem? No one ever cites the original source. So today Beth Allison Barr and Miranda Zapor Cruz, both academics looking into gender relations in church, join me to try to track down the source. And spoiler alert: People seem to have made this up about 30 years ago-and they keep quoting it! We look at why this matters, and what happens when churches assume this stat is true.
OUR SPONSOR
Ever, AJ: Uniquely crafted vegan leather Bible cases. These Bible Cases are GORGEOUS and FUNCTIONAL! Use it as a traditional case, or you can also buy purses and wristlets. Makes a great gift too!
everajbrand.com/
TO SUPPORT US:
Join our Patreon for as little as $5 a month to support our work
/ baremarriage
For tax deductible donations in the U.S., support Good Fruit Faith Initiative through the Bosko Foundation
secure.qgiv.co...
And check out our Merch, or any of our courses!
sheilawraygreg...
SIGN UP for our weekly emails--Rebecca writes them, and they're amazing!
baremarriage.c...
THINGS MENTIONED IN THE PODCAST:
Miranda Zapor Cruz’ article for MissioAlliance: The Myth of the 93% www.missioalli...
Julie Roys’ podcast talking with Amanda Cunningham, who led women’s ministry at Lakepointe Rockwall campus under Josh Howerton julieroys.com/...
Tim Clinton Clip www.drjamesdob...
Danny Akin citing the “stat” theresource.or...
Josh Howerton clip • Men Must Fight for The... (around 20:15)
J.D. Greear clip vimeo.com/2319...
The Baptist Press article that doesn’t quote a study www.baptistpre...
The Orthodox Barbie clip www.instagram....
The Christ Church of the Valley handbook with the “stat” ccvprodrock.bl...
Matt Chandler saying he preaches to men: • Matt Chandler intervie... (around 36-37 minutes)
ABOUT MIRANDA ZAPOR CRUZ:
Find Miranda Zapor Cruz on Facebook / mirandazaporcruz
Order her book Faithful Politics amzn.to/4dbwe41
ABOUT BETH ALLISON BARR:
Find Beth Allison Barr on Threads www.threads.ne... and Instagram / bethallisonbarr
Pre-order Becoming the Pastor’s Wife amzn.to/3TAX5PT
Listen to our podcast on The Making of Biblical Womanhood baremarriage.c...
Awesome conversation! The titular stat reminds me of the recent sentiment I have heard from some Christian traditional young men: “The biggest problem with the American church today is that it has become feminized.” The last time I heard it in person, I wanted to ask him “Oh? How so?” but the group conversation moved on before I could. These men don’t realize that women don’t feel welcome in so many churches. How are most churches becoming “feminized” with fewer women than ever before in the history of the Church?!
Churches shouldn’t cater to only one demographic while ignoring all others. Churches who value the gifts, callings, and needs of men and women equally aren’t “feminized,” they are Christlike.
Yes! These churches are dominated by men, yet they blame women. Also, this is just the typical conservative attack on femininity. Everything must be super-masculine in their eyes. Society and churches need a balance of masculine and feminine traits to function well. God designed the masculine and the feminine to go hand in hand.
There are certain websites and "news" reporting organizations that have pounded on this for several years. I had to sit down with my son one evening and pick apart an article that mansplained how the church is "feminized" and women aren't being "allowed" to live their created gender roles... Far too many young adults are accepting this kind of rhetoric because it is the logical conclusion of all they have been taught as they were growing up in complementarian households. I think the best thing we can do is continue to question whenever there is opportunity, and remember that there are far more men in churches on Sundays than there are women, then ask them if they would think it was OK for all women to sit down and shut up... (I'm beginning to hear some voices saying that even hearing women's voices in public is problematic. I really think fundamentalists are all the same, whether they are Christian, Jewish, or Muslim.)
I always hear this type of thing and it broke my heart because I felt so defeated as a Christian mother putting so much passion into discipling my children, only to be told that their dad (who I had to beg to be involved and lived a very poor example) was more important to their walk with Christ than I am. No matter what I do, he was more important. I refuse to believe that the God who chose to first reveal His risen Son to women first cares more about the fathers than mothers
Same
Ditto. I spent so many years frustrated and held on to Paul exhortation of Timothy to keep following his mothers and her mother’s faith. But the people pushing these ideas are trying to fight the understanding that women are more religious in general.
It's just another attack from Satan that narcissistic men believe. You did a great job!
It does seem to make the dad into the Messiah. It’s their faithfulness that saves the child.
After the "stats" about girls talking twice as much as boys, I am not surprised at all!🤦♀️🤦♀️🤦♀️🤦♀️
Something that kinda boggles my mind is the fact that the people who hear this myth, don’t think “huh, maybe we are doing something wrong, maybe the wives/mothers number shouldn’t be that low and maybe we can change something to improve it.” Because my thinking is if this statistic was actually true then it’s a result of patriarchy in the church and in society as a whole that is making it practically impossible for women to reach their full potential as Christians. So I am not surprised that the male leaders in these churches have accepted this, not only as true, but as a good, natural thing, but it frustrates me nonetheless. Thanks, Shelia for addressing this and the countless other issues everyone else is willing to accept, believe, or brush under the rug.
I first heard about that “statistic” in 1989, and the friend who was telling me about it, I believe, said it was a James Dobson quote. Which would figure - he always was good at pulling stuff out of his butt!
Yeah, the guy who admitted beating his dachshund with a belt.
@@Himmiefan oooof, I hadn't heard that one.😬
@@lisajohnson4744 He talked about it himself in one of his books. He had to establish dominance over the dog. Horrible!
Barely started but this reminded me of “stats” that citizens of totalitarian governments self-report the highest levels of personal happiness in the world.
Well, of course they do: they have no choice.
In a patriarchal home, if the child or mother comes to Christ, all they can do is invite their family to meet Jesus. But in a patriarchal family, a father can essentially compel his whole family to go to church and to profess what he wants them to profess. It doesn’t mean that their faith is their own.
I’m in the middle of a research class in grad school where all we are doing all semester is planning a research study. The logistics of setting up a valid study on this particular topic make my head hurt. 😂 It would be such a complex and long process. And then interpreting the data - this would be a quantitative and qualitative nightmare to do in a valid way. You can’t just ask who went to church first, unless all you care about is who stepped foot in the building first. You would need so many interviews to find out what convinced men and women and children to attend church. And how many times did they attend? For how long? Why does it even matter? There’s a reason no one has ever tried this study before.
I honestly feel stupid for accepting these stats without questioning. Like seriously, how would you even quantify these claims?
Are you in my class at CNU? 🤣
Honestly, Sheila et al. have been so helpful to me as they have discussed citations and research ethics!
@@lisajohnson4744 😂 no, unfortunately I’m in Florida 😂 But I agree - hearing people think this way is very helpful to me in a world where people say “it’s not that big of a deal if we don’t read every source we cite or even cite every source we use.” I’m sorry, but YES it is!
Yes, I heard that statistic decades ago in homeschool circles.
Am I the only one that’s really annoyed about Howerton saying that children are more likely to bring the family to Christ than the mother? I’m sure in his mind it’s because 30% of families follow after a son, and 14% of families follow after a daughter.
I caught that as well. I think it's amusing that when he reported the "statistics" he skewed them way off of what everyone else was reporting. He's a really good fabricator.
If the (madeup) statistic had been stated in the reverse (women bring 93%, men 17%), I kinda think there might have been the same result. I could see some pastors saying that women are doing fine, so they don't need the added support... but men! they need to man up and learn how ro influence more and better, so let's throw our support to them to change that stat. 🤷♀️ I could be wrong, but it feels like a strong bias can just so strongly impact the interpretation and applicability of any statistic.
Circular citing is as wrong as plagiarism. Also. I’m not surprised women are the primary faith developer and enforcer….my MIL is a pastors wife and has espoused all the evil teachings in a woman’s familial way-the influence of the relational parts of the extended family. It is devastating to extended families to have a ‘matriarchal’ figure who is wrapped up in patriarchy and enforcing it. And God forbid she ever have a face to face with the truth that men and women are equal because--because of what she has endured as a submissive follower she CAN NOT stomach any younger woman having the joy and freedom and leadership from Christ that is actually the right of a woman (as the same as men.)
Fascinating to come to this conversation from the UK mainline churches. For us the myth has long been that reach the children and the parents will be drawn in. It may be 50-60 years old, and proven wrong, but is still embedded such that tiny congregations without the resources feel guilty for not having children, or a youth programme. The reality is that the youth work of the 60s didn't hold many into adulthold; but the belief that this is still the magical solution for churches where the youngest people are already retired is very real.
When I think of who had the greater influence on my church attendance and spiritual walk, from childhood to age 18, my father certainly WASN'T it! As far as parental influence is concerned, it was mostly my mom. Today, both of the children she raised are believers (my younger brother and me). Would our lives be better if our dad was genuinely, wholeheartedly folowing Christ? Heck yes. Did we lose Jesus because of him? Nope. Obviously, it's different in each family, and we all know that sometimes, the dad's the good parent and the mom is the bad one. BUT. It's the HEART of the parent that matters.
Thank you for busting this wide open. I've heard this quote before, and while I do believe that there were good intentions from the pastors who I've heard share it, I'm relieved to hear y'all debunk it.
The first one to come??? Is this a competition or something?
Wow, look at the fellas. Taking credit for Holy Spirit’s work. 😐
This "statistic" seems to place the saving in the hands of the earthly father, and not the heavenly father.
Only teach to men is a false teaching. Preach the Gospel to EVERY creature. That’s what our Savior instructs. Lord, help us see You beyond the blind guides.
This was excellent!
Hey, I'm in that group on Facebook!
I cant tell you how many times Ive heard this "stat" from a pulpit. At this point Im not surprised its faked but I am angry. This satistic makes moms feel ineffective or hopeless if their husbands arent believers or dont attend church regularly. Maybe if "statistics" are consistently weaponized we should learn to question the source.
I also heard this a few times from Paul Washer, he also loves this made up stat...
Another " Man" made statistic.