Testifying Against Scientology - John McLean Interview
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- Опубліковано 9 лют 2025
- John McLean joins Mark Fisher and Janis Gillham Grady and discusses testifying against Scientology and L. Ron Hubbard in the 1970s when the Internal Revenue Service of the USA was investigating Scientology, resulting in denial of tax exempt status at that time.
They also talk about Operation Snow White where Scientology's Guardians Office infiltrated the US Government and stole thousands of documents which eventually led to the FBI raid on Scientology in 1977 and the eventual conviction of Mary Sue Hubbard and Others.
John also tells other stories about the attacks and harrassment that was unleashed on John, his mother Nan McLean and their family in Canada and the USA just for speaking the truth about Hubbard and Scientology
This is Part 3 of the interview. Here are links to Parts 1 and 2 below -
Part 1 - Scientology - The Moroccan Coup
• Interview - John McLea...
Part 2 - Anti-Scientology Original Gangsters - John and Nan McLean
• Speaking Out and then ...
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When you say they have last years of Tax exempt status and doesn’t that mean the government has the history now of how they played so dirty to get exemption and even more than that, how little they have done in the world to do “church like” things to help. They do nothing that helps, especially without charging the people for the help. Although I’m not catholic now, I was raised in the church. I never saw them charge for the help they offered. When I was a child my early years of education was no more $ then childcare and we never had to by any books and were never told we couldn’t call the police. When I stopped being involved in the church, my parents still communicated with me and no one at the church told them not to. It’s all very odd to me, how they are any type of religion at all.
Excellent comment and questions. Yes Scientology calls them "donations" for services but they are actually prices. The IRS fought them over this for years. They said you are a business for profit, not a religion. However in 1992 Scientology won a settlement with the IRS whereby they paid a fine and were given tax exempt status. They abuse it every day ever since. The Tax exemption has protected them for years from lawsuits.
enjoyed and thank you
Glad you enjoyed it
Great to see John again! You're good people 👍
Thanks very much. We are recording another interview with John McLean today. Stay tuned. It will be out in a few days.
That is so sad about Jerry. 😮😢
At 23:20 you speak of a Charging Document. I'd love to get my hands on that.
Hi. I searched for Operation Snow White on Wikepedia and then went to the reference section and looked for the link to the document there. Very interesting reading.
I love listening to you guys! Such an excellent episode. I just got Janis's first book, wish I'd had it when we met in Clearwater!
Wonderful! Thanks very much for ordering the book and for watching our channel! We hope you enjoy it!
Great show! I wish more people knew about what happened in the 70s and 90s. People would see that the policies are the same and the fraud continues.
Excellent point! Thanks very much for watching our videos. We appreciate it!
Vote for Mark Bunker in Clear Clearwater FL. He’s against Scientology
Another one of your great interviews Janis and Mark, thank you so much 👌🙏🧡
Are you planning to have Jerry Amstrong on some time ? He was part of the apollo crew back in the days and later Clearwater.
Thanks very much. Janis is working on it. We hope to have him soon.
Thats wonderful Mark 👌 Looking forward for it 😊 Thank you so much for all the good work you and Janis are doing 🧡🙏
Thanks for having John on again. Great stories & important historical context! 👏
Glad you enjoyed it
At 18:10. COS sued them into submission? I wonder. What is in the classified agreement? What did Miscavige agree to? Is that connected with the gradual dismantling of the auditing technology?
Thanks Leny. Unfortunately we have no idea what is in there.
Really enjoyed this interview. 😊😊😊
Glad you enjoyed it!
Excellent stories and so important to somehow KEEP these videos for posterity. This stuff did happen, despite Scientology's lying that this stuff never happened.
Delightful guest on.
I really enjoy learning about John's history.
I hope and pray information is still getting to the IRS! What was your thoughts back then, when you were told to tell a shore story??
Excellent John McLean, really enjoyed this, and must watch your other recent one.
John, have you thought of possibly doing a two way video with Gerry Armstrong?
"He did bad things, much like all of us did and regret now." - John McLean. Thank you for saying that. I've been trying to reiterate this point to the hate mongers who are blaming some ex-scientologists for what they did in the cult 20-30 years ago.
Thanks for your comment Peace Dog. We appreciate it.
"Simon Bolivar..." Hubbard writing.
Ho folks. Doing good. Thanks for the episode.
Janis, Your answer to your wonder why the Guardian's Office went hush hush when you visited them, 24:00 is the "pink legs" part of "Simon Bolivar" Hubbard writing. Simple as that, if you grok how "pink legs" became Guardian's Office policy for them NOT to reveal to anyone, and not to you Hubbard entourage people (other than if Mary Sue let details be known to her top GO people on the Apollo). "pink legs" goes on today. Linda Hamel would tell NO one what she knows, as a current comparison, LInda Hamel knows who even in RTC would not be privvy to what Linda knows and which only DM and maybe Warren McShane would know about what Linda's got OSA Int doing.
This whole "pink legs" aspect, ALL goes to "Simon Bolivar", see my other plea about someone, some outsider, getting their teeth into "Simon Bolivar" for real. Because Mary Sue and the Guardian's Office did, and OSA today still take "Simon Bolivar" as bible material for them.
Just look at David miscarriage lifestyle with tax money he lives like a billionaire
"above the law" mentality, Hubbard's mentality. "Simon Bolivar" policy is the most damning Hubbard writing, of his "above the law" mentality. Hubbard pushed onto Mary Sue this "above the law" mentality, and "Manuela" her flaws, per Hubbard, Mary Sue then ensured were not repeated. Mary Sue is directly unfortunately one who took the Hubbard "above the law" Manuela corrective unlawful mentality. Manuela was critisized by Hubbard for FAILING to have murdered one of Bolivar's deepest enemies.
Hubbard is the demon in the Scientology horror story, and "Simon Bolivar" policy needs be a central Hubbard writing to center upon. ALL Scientologists study the "Simon Bolivar" policy even today when studying the "Power Condition" formula backgroun theory.
Utterly sick, Hubbard was utterly and always will be relevant to read his worst unlawful "church" policies.
I wish some of the ex-scientologists who blame Mike Rinder for everything would watch your videos. It seems lots of former scientologists didn't know what was going on or didn't realize what they were doing was wrong. It's not just Mike Rinder. How many times do we hear that the right hand didn't know what the left hand was doing? It happens in every day corporations as well. Me being the right hand to the CEO, everyone thought I knew every detail about what was going. I didn't.
Excellent point.
Why aren't you covering all the protests? Is Rinder keeping you silent 🤫 🤔
Thanks very much. There are plenty of people covering the protests. It's not what we do here. We tell abuse stories by Scientology. Witness our videos with Scott and Karry Campbell. Scott was abducted and held prisoner by Scientology for months. Drugged and beaten by his guards. We also tell the history of Scientology in the past. Witness our recent interviews with John McLean who spoke out in the 1970s along with his mother Nan McLean against Scientology and were attacked and harrassed by Scientology. We support the protests and the results they are having. No one is keeping us silent. Again thanks for watching.
Fair point, and thank you for the detailed response. Keep up the good work.
Rinder supports the protests.
How would you define Sea Org in 2024?
Small and failing organization. LOL
S tumbling
O rg
S inking
O rg
S hameless
O rg
🧡🙏