Congratulations on passing 10k! Well deserved. I think there's benefit to sparring with open hand slaps to the face, works well when you mix with bare knuckles to the body. The emotional control needed out ways the risks and it gives you greater versatility in using your hands. Keep up the good work. Love your videos.
Like both yours and fight science both you make good videos but sometimes you can miss the point your saying facts palm strike works, chop does if you get in precise place spinning elbows great, spinning kicks and back fist fail in street fight and no matter how good you are if you hit to head i mean head not jaw line you will break hands
I got caught with one years ago while doing some infighting training with a student. He pulled it but he would have caught me cleanly if he'd landed it with intent - His ten years of kung-fu training found a place that day.
@Jeremy Backman That sucks man, i broke my nose in judo when i was 12 or something. its healed pretty well luckily, it wasnt terribly broken tho. Hope you heal well.
My father studied in Japan in the 60's received his shodan before coming back to the U.S. the edge of his hands were like iron. Getting hit with it was the real deal.
Yeah, most Americans in America though don't do that kind of conditioning. Its kind of like tiger claw, you may have the hand power, but, their finger tips aren't turned into stone (figuratively)
@@MaharlikaAWA WHOOSH! Full aware dude. The joke flew over your head. The quotation marks are supposed to show that it was a joke. If the mentioning of non-existent techniques weren't enough.
@@MaharlikaAWA Only attention whores and midgets jump up in the air to use hammer fist or slag Master Wong off on UA-cam. OK maybe fleas do as well but they don't count cuz they're too small too see. What style is that? Van Gogh! :)
The ridge hand was one of the favourite hand techniques use during the 80's in karate tournaments in America. Lots of guys get knockout by it, when they connected the ears temple.
Yeah it is underrated. I have seen some spectacular examples like you describe. You do have to be careful, you don't just slam it in as hard as you can, that's how your break your hand. But if it is delivered accurately and with the right amount of speed, power and snap then it definitely drops people.
Some of the ancient master used a technique called "Aggressive Tickling" and if you think that's some kind of joke... then you've already fell prey to it's power.
Reason1717 there's an effective ancient counter technique to that that's called the liquid halitosis loogie, taught by monks who cultivated their breath, their phlegm and their aim for dozens of years to achieve instant vomiting, choking and effective paralysis of anyone trying to aggressively tickle them. although they need only to blow on an opponent to make them hurl in agony, their loogie finishes them off permanently.
Seriously man im 14 ive done mma sonce i was 8 i am well balanced i like strikin and jiu jitsu and my play jiu jitsu against my father i sometimes lock a guillotine on him he start tickling me and bam im defensless he alway does the only this i can get on him is an armbar even the rear naked choke is useless he tickles me to the body im getting mad
@@joegeagea8097 , well I am sure you know I meant my post as a joke. But your example has a hidden explanation of course. We react to tickling mostly in our minds. Say if someone you loved passed. And then you were tickled you'd find no laughter reaction. Which is due the mental link to tickling. Train well friend.
have never sparred someone with palm strikes because the legit danger of rupturing someones eye ball with a finger poke. For this same reason I think its a great idea for self defense situations, especially of your doing a long guard and your lead hand is open at their eye level. So many mma fights get eyepokes from this. A man can't see, he can't fight. Cobra Kai!
Also on da streetz I think using a palm instead of closed fist is the way to go for your dominant (rear) hand because less chance of breaking it, and depending on what situation your in your life might depend on you being able to use it to do something dexterous a some point (open a door, lock a door, use a phone, hold a weapon ect.) I say strike (jab) with a closed lead hand for sure though, thats the first line of defense. if the lead hand breaks a bone or has a tooth hanging out of it its not as big a deal as the dominant hand in my eyes.
Yes, you have a legit point here, using palm strike in sparring is dangerous for the opponent, but in the street fight, facing the enemy, palm strike works, and rupturing their eyes is a good attack too.
The problem with spearhand in self defense is when you go for it intentionally. If it doesn't land perfectly, you're injuring yourself. That said, open-hand strikes are pretty good for self preservation (not a mutual combat situation). Open-hand slap or push to the face, and fingers/thumbs are in a good place to poke, tear, and rip at the soft, vulnerable parts of the face- eyes, ears, nose, mouth (if you really want to try a fishhook there). But those are moves you get incidentally, an added thing to do only after you get the initial hit.
I'm pretty sure the deadly palm strike to the nose thing came from the movie Billy Jack. There's a scene where he's supposed to hit a guy in the nose so hard the guy dies on the spot. The story goes that they film it and watch the dailies, and nobody in the room gets what happened. So they decided to add the dialog "He just pushed his nose bone into his brain" or something like that to make the scene play better. So now, 30-40 years later, everybody knows for a fact that an open palm strike to the nose can be fatal because of a throwaway scene in an old chop-sockey exploitation film.
Love the video! My thoughts on the “praying mantis strike”. I learned it in Wing Chun as sort of a backup method of striking that is only applicable under specific circumstances. We were taught that it can be used if your hand is injured/broke/cut as it may be in a self defense. It’s used in close clinching range to the neck or under the jaw and the power comes from the elbow. It is not ideal when you can close-hand punch instead but it is another tool you can pull out when you need it. I would wager that it is actually better for self defense than sport fighting, but again, never as a primary means of attack. Essentially, it was taught to me as a legit strike but there is a specific way to execute it and is only appropriate at the right moment. Closed hand punches are always better.
When my Kempo Sensei taught it, he told us that we should never actually use it in a fight. He just said it was one of those left over things from back when martial artists trained their bodies to be able to sustain damage to the hands and wrists without serious pain. He also refers to it as a “chicken wrist”
I learned the mantis fist can be quite a good way to deflect punches upwards or sideways, and thus opening the opponent for an immediate counter, but as you say, there are other hand techniques more readily available to more situations. another pointer is that the bunched up fingers are ideally striking at the eyes of the opponent, thus you deflect a punch upwards and then strike downwards with your hand towards the opponent eye to gain an advantage.
Hmm, I was taught in WC it was useful only to deflect or hook an arm temporarily and then whip it into soft tissue like the face, ear, etc. as a distraction or to open an angle. Ideally we would use it to do/feint groin strikes to open the high line. I always felt forearm strikes, and whipping fingers at eyes made more sense.
That's an interesting concept - wrist strikes as an emergency backup if your hand has already been busted up in some way. The same strikes/blocks are found in Goju-Ryu karate - Tensho kata is even very similar Wing Chun's Siu Lim Tao form - but they always struck me as a bit iffy. Thanks for sharing a decent reason to know them!
@@senoB yeah we used it that way too. We were taught multiple interpretations of many of the techniques, like a screwdriver that can be used in defferent ways but its still the same tool
In kungfu, I was taught to actually strike with the outer edge of the palm (from pinky to wrist joint) instead of the full on palm. It concentrates the power into a smaller area, and is pretty nice for striking targets on the neck. I throw them out like jabs, and it's pretty fast. With the smaller impact area, it's almost like a knife hand, but faster. The spear hand, after some experimenting, I find to be interestingly suited for a quick jab or swipe to the eye after guarding from a hook. I didn't throw it straight out, but really just a quick poke with the fingers. The mantis hand I find to be a good followup to an inside...ward, I guess you'd call it, or redirect, against a straight or a jab. For me, it's like the equivalent to a jab. Completely different body mechanics, but the speed I can throw it is somewhat similar. Not something I'd use in a combo, but as a counter and set up for grapple. Actually, the way I'd use it is similar to your straight-hammerfist combo if I were to use it offensively. I also use it as replacement for an uppercut. Doesn't have as much power, but I can throw it faster with less movement and commitment to the motion. It's supposedly good for a strike to the armpit, and I can kinda see that. It's a nice gotcha strike for me. Well, those are my thoughts from my experimentation. Hope it helps.
It is similar in karate, for palm strikes use the "pinky side" of the palm. You don't want to use the thumb side, because the thumb joint is there and it is more fragile, you can mess up your thumb pretty bad. And yeah you cannot practice it with any power, you can only do light sparring with it. Even bags aren't that great for it. You want something like a makiwara for it, i.e. a big plank of wood with a little padding. Still hard to train all the angles though.
Ah yes, the Short Throw Dipstick method of Biu Jee. Known only to the most highly trained of the Autozone family of Ancient Slappyhands Method Kung Fu. A deadly skill!
@@jaybee7271 > sees "Ancient Slappy Hands" and "Short throw Dipstick" > not sure if joke Come on dude, obviously a joke. I was riffing off yours. If someone owns a car and doesn't know how to do an oil change or even how to check their oil, shame on those people. I'm in the middle of rebuilding my 99 ZX2's engine, and come summer, prepping my Mustang GT for a supercharger install. Gonna be fun :D
@@ISZAudio Not sure if "a rly bad joke". In grappling sports oil check reffers to putting your finger/fingers inside of your opponents ass. But good luck on your build.
Good info! I think what people don't realize about chops and "pokes" is that you have to spend some time training your hands to actually do them. If you see somebody who can actually legit do them against hard surfaces....check out their hands. They are usually massive, large, effed up looking hands! Regular bare knuckle punching can also hurt if you have not trained your knuckles. The palm strike is probably the least painful strike to do with lesser trained hands.
@@TheGalaxyCrusher Not quite. Funny enough it's actually from the VA of the TF2 Scout. He kinda gave me the nick when i was watching his streams. Sadly, i don't play Warframe. It's a great game, though.
Hey - my school spars, full contact, with open-palm strikes. However, we're an Arnis school, so... 1. We're all wearing full Arnis/Kendo/Stickfighitng (hard metal cage) headgear. So when you do it, it really just knocks their cage up and back, and sorta blinds them for a moment. (It also pushes them back onto their heels.) We also (for safety) restrict the strikes to straight strikes (ie, no haymakers or whatnot) - just straight out from the chest. 2. We also wear hand protection (street hockey gloves, mainly) - so while there's a bit of padding involved, although not a lot on the palm/inside of the glove. 3. Because it's stickfighitng, you almost never do it, unless you're specifically practicing your corto (short-range) - it's mainly a distraction technique to knock someone's head up and back while you're ramming a stick into their gut and hitting them over the head. And yeah - our school mainly uses standard punches, with the occasional hammer strike (as it's a near-copy of a stick swing).
Every once in a while I'll still hear full grown adults that legitimately believe you can palm strike someones nose into there brain...and they'll argue back when you tell them its bullshit! "Nah dude it could totally happen"
@@IcyMikeP I'm sure it's because of this movie "Con air" with Nicolas Cage, he does it, at the beginning of the movie, in a self defense situation and goes to jail because of it.
A person's head would have to be fixed in place for that to even possibly be effective. A better idea is to Palm strike somebody's head into a brick wall or the pavement. Now, that make kill a person. Good luck claiming self-defense with that.
I stopped teaching the soo do chop. I still teach the ridge hand, but towards softer parts of the bidy. Its true. In a sparring match friend of mine broke his hand, aiming towards a neck and the guy moved and he hit his skull..crack. mind you he broke bricks with that..legit bricks..but he broke his hand exactly the way you said
@James Lewis no he broke for five bricks he was pretty condition we do it with a yuksu many times. He broke his hand because the top of the skull is stronger than any brick sorry but that's just Medical Science that's why I'm dirty boxing people with bob their head down so you punch him right on the skull which is oddly enough where you do a head butt from. Point is sudos are not practical anymore maybe to the side of the neck if they don't move but people move when you Spar people move they don't sit still
I always though palm strikes were great but as soon as sparring begins I find I go right back to regular punches. The one place I really saw them work well was a coworker who had a hand issue and once I took her to a gym with a heavy bag and let her see palm strikes at work she was much more confident in her ability to use her training and defend herself because she could put power into the palm strikes that she couldn't into her punches.
Love your videos! Disagree a bit on knife hand. Fighting in a point tournament in the 80's, I had a guy open his fist into a knife hand for reach and hit me high in stomach with it. I dropped to my knees. My combat sports experience is pretty deep - I've cornered at the UFC a few times and judged at a UFC in 2017. Great work again on your channel.
I've used "shuto" or Karate-chop twice as a bouncer and it worked just fine. I guess my opponents didn't know that that's the technique which doesn't work if you duck.
Agreed. If you train it, and can break board and bricks with it, it's going to cause damage and be effective. Shutos work as do ridge hands if you train them. An inverted/reversed ridge hand is an amazing un-telegraphed intro shot that will break a nose easily. The logic that your opponent will move and you miss with a shuto is faulty as that can happen with any shot. The critique of "mantis" is also not fair. It's devastating if you train it. It's old school, but I've met old Okinawan practitioners that had deformed wrists from conditioning and you didn't want them to hit you with it. I'll agree with hard2hurt's assessment of back knuckle vs hammer fist. All you gotta do is try some board breaks with a back knuckle to realize that it hurts more than it's probably worth in a real fight.
Anything that works, period, works for self defense. You just have to be more discerning with the risk assessment, especially if you are not justifiably confident in your ability to pull it off.
That's kind of true but there are exceptions aren't there? What about round house kicks to the body? I probably wouldn't use them outside of matches, but they do work for matches so...
@@jestfullgremblim8002 Like I said, you would probably want to be more cautious about using a risky technique, but if you could use it effectively in a match, then you could do it in a street fight. There's no reason not to ever slam your shin into someone's liver or solar plexus in a street fight if you have a clear opportunity to land it without winding up on the ground. There is the same type of risk as in the cage of getting taken down if they catch it or counter you, but you also have to consider the fact that NOT throwing an effective strike when you have the opportunity to land it can increase the likelihood of you losing the fight, which defeats the purpose of that caution to begin with.
@@bunklypeppz oh wait, i think that i had that mindset because of the way in which i use the roundhouse kicks. I mainly use them to condition my opponets to do something about them and then i use that reaction against them, rather than to hit them in the liver or something haha
The chop can be effective provided you ruin your hands practicing it. My Karate teacher practices chop everyday and he’s crazy enough to chop a wooden pole every single day. The sides of his hands are cover with thick skin and callouses, you think its solid rock and when touching them. Effective but not worth it imo.
Dang Mike, you're totally right that the hammerfist is a more effective version of the backfist! You don't lose any range and the tradeoff is a huge increase in power. I've never actually implemented my style's backfists as power strikes because I instinctively knew from my time on the bag that I'd break my knuckles pulling that nonsense. I'll give the hammerfist a try next time though, thanks.
Cross chops are done in a wider angle than a straight job or a straight punch. some styles shorten the motion, making it less telegraphed than a Haymaker, but it is still telegraphed nonetheless. It still has its time and place, like the hook, but it's not going to be used too often. Especially not with the way most die-hard traditional zealots try to throw it out.
@Nikolaij Brouiller Again you can apply the same logic. Some people telegraph punches and straight ones can be slipped either side. A good chop to the neck is more like a hammer first. As you said concealing your movements is the key, but that can also be done with a chop. They all have a place and it also depends on who's using it.
@@AlexanderGent Nah. Hammer fist always transfers more force and protects your hand. The problem with the chop is your knuckles are not locked fully and can slip one over another if you hit a hard target, breaking your hand. Smaller surface area can only do so much if the force is to be lower to not break the hand...
Well said. Too many people have trouble differentiating between street fighting and tournament fighting. Hammer fists are great and generate a tremendous amount of power. I have to incorporate an open palm due to a fused knuckle. I hammer the bag but haven't sparred as you mentioned.
Love this guy. A lot of old school techniques in his videos, plus, the instruction is crisp, refreshing, and no-bullshit. Also, he seems like the kind of guy I'd have a beer with
The practical use of spear hand I've been taught (and it tends to work) is that you strike at the neck area to 1) harm the neck directly 2) More impotantly, you use it to get a grip of his gi or shirt collar, in order to pull them close for a headbutt, knee strikes, and strangling them with their own shirt and wrestle them to the ground to mount, preferably in that order. Against an unprepared opponent is a good set up for pretty damaging close quarter blows. The obvious disadvantage is that this does not work if your opponent is shirtless. instead of that you try to lock the back of their neck, but that is a gable, as that requires a little extra distance and is easier to get wrong or slip from.
An acquaintance was fighting in competition, his opponent (who had massive mittens) punch the forehead and broke his hand good despite hand wraps and boxing gloves.
Ideally, you hit hard targets with soft weapons and soft targets with hard weapons. Punch a brick wall, yeah, you're gonna break fingers. A palm strike to the forehead will radiate some pain without busting your own hand in the process.
I get where you're coming from with the backfist. Might just be my perception, but the backfist feels a little bit quicker to me. I usually don't use it to inflict a lot of damage, but to either just lightly hit and set up another punch (a short uppercut with the same hand for example) or to simply punch my opponents guard away. So yes, it's not a power punch, but it's cool for set ups.
Think he needs to look a little more on okinawan karate . And obviously we all know why you can’t use shuto strikes in mma ufc etc. why ??? Not dogging him out because I agree with some of what this guys says but not all of it. Hit makiwara and you’ll know . I’ve studied Matsubayashi Ryu for 30+ years and the fighting technique is something that folks don’t know much about . Watch Budo art of killing .
@@te9591 your not allowed to strike the neck at all. As far as knowledge goes. Tell me if I’m wrong. Obviously it happens when someone misses a strike sometimes.
I know I'm a little late to the party here, guys, recent fan once I came back to the scene. I've been doing combat sports and self-defence for about 17-18 years, my memory is a little hazy as I near 30 and I apologize. Palm and ridge hands are an important part of the original style I studied, IN COMBOS. It's more of a deterent for non commitment from an opponent. However, a ridge hand to the throat or a palm strike to the sternum done with serious intent can lead to some pretty serious conclusive damage. I would recommend and personally lead those or set up with distraction and misdirection. It makes them especially drop their guard around their chest. That's my TED talk, thanks for reading!
Agree with most, just two things that I find to be BS 1) open palm strikes leave you very vulnerable to sprained wrists (I'll say from experience, not good in a fight) 2) not using spinning kicks in a fight, while I agree for the most part, the spinning side/back kick to the body is great for maintaining distance and can really hurt your opponent (see Barboza vs Hooker if you don't believe me). This said, only throw the kick if you have proper training, else you might botch it and end up in trouble
When I play with palm strikes sometimes I tweak my wrist a little... because I dont practice them. I think the difference between palm and fist is probably similar in risk as well as mitigation of that risk with practice
@@woffordswaymartialartschar5541 Couldn't really understand what you were trying to say, the English here isn't great but I shall try to interpret it and reply nonetheless. There is no proven fact about palm strikes being better than fist strikes (if you disagree please point me to proof). As a boxer myself, I can attest to the fact that closed fists strike work effectively and there is only a small chance of getting injured provided you exercise caution, however the same can be said for palm strikes. At the end of the day, I've been boxing for 2 years, yet I've only sprained my wrist once and that was by playing rugby, palm strikes are more risky for sprained wrists. All in all, it comes down to what you've trained, if you've trained with palm strikes and are really proficient with them, use them. However, if you have no training and find yourself in a fight, I would say to use a closed fist as it will finish the fight more quickly.
@@woffordswaymartialartschar5541 Like I said, point me to evidence. Palm strikes are in no way stronger than closed fists, it sounds like you have listened to the same whacko martial artists who will tell you that something like Aikido will actually work in a fight. A fist strike will deliver the same amount of force as a palm strike, with less chance of injury. On top of that, knuckles are sharper bones and will cause more injury to the target (ie. cuts, swelling etc). In terms of martial artists experiencing both palm strikes and fist strikes, all of the ones I know use fist strikes. And at the very top of the ladder, legendary karate fighters Stephen Thompson and Lyoto Machida, both of whom fight in the UFC, use closed fist strikes as opposed to palm strikes.
A common misconception of both sides, the pro-goofy-strikes and contra-goofy-strikes, is that these allegedly goofy strikes aren't intended to be done with unconditioned hands. These are old-school technique that depend on old-school training. That means neither the watered down American Karate bullshit nor the still watered down Japanese Shotokan sports Karate. Authentic old training style that incorporates these techniques depends on thorough conditioning that makes you not only comfortable at hitting bones, it makes the opponent not want to get hit with such heavily hardened hands. Hands that have been hitting tough material for years don't care if they hit bone, they just land and maybe break it without feeling pain in the hands. Also, the infamous spear hand are OF COURSE a ridiculous attempt with unhardened hands. You need to condition your hands for this for years by striking into bags of graines/pellets, continually changing to more coarse material, e.g. from peas to iron pellets. If done so, these hands not only don't get hurt, they can delivere painful punctual attacks to the torso without the fingers giving in to the impact or pain in the tips.
It's an interesting point. I think Morio Higaonna of the IOGKF (Okinawan Goju-Ryu) is one of the few people around today who has spent their life practising these old school conditioning techniques. I'm pretty sure that guy could hit you just about anyway, with any part of his hand or body, and it would be be a painful experience for you (not him). But the real question is - is it practical for most people? Is it worth the time and effort and trade-offs relative to the benefits you gain? The answer is almost certainly not. It's a prime example of working harder, not smarter. Use the right strike for the right target instead, and focus your no doubt limited training time on practical things. I'm pretty sure even Morio Higaonna does it in order to preserve the historical aspect of the art as a tradition, not because of it's practical self-defense applications.
As of 8/2/2021, at 1703 hours: you're at 360 thousand subscribers: 350 thousand more from where you were at 4/21/2019. You got 350 thousand more subscribers in the span of JUST TWO YEARS. Keep up the good work, Icy Mike!
I think the only reason to use open hand strikes it to “shorten” your weapon for when your tied up and can’t generate power from the entire body and still land with the knuckles. A chop or hammerfist also allows you to generate more force when you can only throw and punch than you can with a punch. Same with a palm strike, it gives you a fist length more worth of distance to accelerate your arm, so if your really tied up and in close and the elbow isn’t a good option, you’re going to have more room to generate force, especially if you counterlever your wrist by starting with your hand more straight and then letting flick it back as you palm strike, something you can’t do with a fist. Overall, in a fight when it’s hard to think, simple is better so your better off just using fists but there’s definitely angles and scenarios where open hand strikes would do more damage than close fists, but in those scenarios your probably just better off grappling, but mma fights clearly show how important clinchwork and “dirty boxing” is. Alex Pereira for example uses karate chops against the cage. Being who he is, there’s no way he does those unless he thinks those are the most effective strikes for gim yo be throwing in that scenario.
Spear hand works man, in ufc some fighters hit the eyes of the opponents, many times they said it was an accident, but it works. But you have to be merciless to do that.
The only time I'd ever use it is to the throat instead of crushing their esophagus. Other than that 3 jammed fingers with my opponent laughing at me doesnt sound fun
yeah spear hand is designed for eyes, and a couple of other soft parts of the body, like the throat. I still wouldn't use it though, my fingers are not conditioned enough. But I have seen old karate people with insanely tough hands who I would not like to get spear-handed by.
I think a hammerfist is better than a ridge hand for a similar kind of strike, but I have knocked an opponent across the room with a ridgehand to the temple (accidentally...too much force in sparring...about 3/4).
4:48 - imagine a guy who spends years doing hand conditioning to have a hope of making it work without a major risk of hand injury... only to realize he has trouble typing on keyboard/touchscreen because his fingers are too thick and not responsive enough. If martial arts are a way to defend your life from death or life-altering injuries, then it's a failure a priori.
I'm a complete amateur but at old Japanese combat systems class I was taught that the great thing about for example knifehands is consistency across possible ways in which you might be armed. If you are getting pubescent boys to turn them into warriors by only teaching them *one* movement system that should work unarmed, with hidden weapons like knives or combat chains, with sidearms like katanas, or with polearms like naginatas; knifehands are a great thing to practice bodily movement habits for ALL of that AT ONCE. The movements have slight modifications depending on the weapon, but that you are going to practice in a specialized way when it is known where you are going to be deployed.
The ridgehand works. Its a thing in karate. Basically a real life clothesline. Its a move bass rutten himself advocates to penetrate a tight guard. The edge of the wrist can be conditioned to be as hard as a fist and its also the upper body equivalent of a low round house kick to the leg, an optimal power strike to get your opponent to respect you so you can transition into throwing high low mixups or off beat combinations.
They are 100% legit, but the secret lies in conditioning. If you conditioned your palms to be as hard as steel , one palm strike to the face is as lethal as a punch A palm strike to the head is even better than punching. While punching the head , there's a risk of Injuring your fists , but not with palm strikes ,if you conditioned them well
we practice palm strikes sometimes while wearing a helmet with visors in sparring, that works but you cant go 100% with it either because you definitely feel it
The context for traditional movements are neck and knee attacks done in motion for mele attacks. Without that context, its far better to do fight sports geared toward 1:1 competition. Spinning is best done when surrounded or after an initial collision as you see football players do with a spin move to stay in motion. Backfist is a technique geared toward the neck/collar bone which ultimately hits downward. It can start as a hammer fist, but then rotates down giving you control of their head which you can then bounce off of something stone. Palm strikes can be used for distance, but really are best done in close quarters in order to create distance and transition to body control. Its the space between striking and wrestling. In Chinese martial arts they say that fists are the general and the palms are the helpers. One is yang, the other yin.
Spinning techniques are also great for getting out of arm locks. A spinning back fist is better than a hammer fist in that you are less likely to break the ulna bone in your forearm. The Spear hand is not usually a strike in itself, but in kata is usually used as part of a throwing technique. Though it can be used as a carotid blip (like they do in judo) or an eye gouge, it is not effective as a finger tip strike. It can also be used as an anti choke defence.
I agree with most of this although the ridgehands and chops dont just go to the neck. Imagine either one to the nose, or ear or jaw, thats gonna do some damage. Also alot of these techiques are very effective and strong against hard targets assuming you had good makiwara type training, like the old masters used to do, used also for demonstrating breaking techniques., plenty of footage on YT of this. Also the ridgehand can come round and over the top like a bowling type punch, not just straight out.
I do full contact sparring with wing chun and we tend to use open hand and closed fist depending on what we are trying to do in terms of the technique. Palm strikes and back fists (not so much the back fist) are actual moves in the art but are mostly used when we aren't actually trying to injure our opponent. You can say its a safety precaution incase and in my opinion the palm strike teaches control of a technique so that you don't hurt yourself or your partner while learning how to execute the move and then applying the fist when you feel a little comfortable so that now you can practice it with more damage. Plams are also a very safe way to practice finger striking without hurting your partner if you are new at it.
So you try and weather the storm until his energy fades and then pour it on. The more naturally powerful you are the quicker you gas. Defense and footwork have to be perfect though or you get fucked up in the process. (See Max Holloway vs. Dustin Poirier lol)
I'd pull out my H&K VP9 and threaten to shoot him in the kneecap. I remind him that I'm not a great shot and I could hit him in the groin or spine instead, leading to even worse injuries than a shattered knee.
You are right that you cannot practice palm strikes safely against a partner, not against the face anyways. You would be permanently injuring your training partners... but that is why they are so effective in a real fight. I had a petite student whose brother thought Kung Fu was a joke... She felt horrible because she really hurt him even though they were just horsing around. That classic World War Two Chin Jab ain't no joke. But you are wrong about a hand sword strike. It is a power chop with a sweet spot from your hand to mid forearm. It is perfect as a power shot, entire body mass behind it. And the target is ONLY the neck, that big V between the head and shoulder... It is a much easier target to hit than the head. (Neck punches used to be very common in old school bare knuckle boxing for a reason) Yes, against guys with seriously beefy necks, it will be more difficult, but then, beefy guys are why we invented weapons in the first place... I also K.O.d a dude with a spinning hammer fist. He slipped my haymaker and ended up behind me, so as I turned to face him, I swung for the fences, rabbit punched him, and he ended up with a concussion... just sayin'... If it is stupid and it works, then it ain't stupid. ;)
I take Seido karate, and one of my training partners, was previously a black belt in Aikido. He showed me some of his palm strikes; they would devastate anyone in a real fight with just one or two hits. They're not "palms" when moving towards you; they're big legs of slightly thawed frozen lamb.
@@gatocles99 Palms really split the dojo. Whilst all the males are expected to do pressups on their front two knuckles-to strengthen them, the reality is; we do that because you can easily break your hand on an opponents forehead. Palms are a "safer" alternative which has many converts, but honestly, I hate the thought of breaking my wrist so much more than breaking a finger [which I've done twice, including last year-once sparring open handed, once by punching a guy on the forehead]; so I'd rather condition my knuckles and risk breaking one of them. It heals a lot faster than a broken finger too, let alone [shudder]; a broken wrist.
@@rocketassistedgoat1079 The wrist is fundamentally stronger than the hand, just on size of bones and joints alone, but without proper strengthening and conditioning, both will fail miserably in a fight. And even then... people with strong hands like American Football offensive linemen, and Sumo wrestlers dislocate their fingers and sprain their wrists all the time. The hand is not evolved for striking, but for grasping a weapon to strike with... Humans only invented Karate(unarmed combat) because we were denied weapons by tyrants. Old School Karate actually uses comparatively few strikes and a lot more clinching and throwing, and holding and hitting... illegal in sports Karate, but excellent in a fight. Holding and hitting is why there is no "striking first" in Karate...get the clinch first... and it is the secret to never missing your strike(According to Gichin Funakoshi). Ironically, the best way to strengthen both palm strikes and fists, is to strengthen your grip. Pull ups and clean and press until your grip fails, or use a Chi Ishi to grip failure.... daily. If you look at many martial artists, their hands are often so weak they cannot even close them completely into a solid fist. A martial artist wants forearms like Popeye.
The issue with knife and ridge hand strikes is similar in concept to using bladed weapons in sword dueling, which is edge alignment. Trying to duel with a sword, especially if the other person is wearing any type of protective clothing or armor, is that you have to learn to strike where you are aligning the edge of the blade to your target. Sounds simple enough, but in reality it's a lot harder than people think. Most beginners will be slightly off which causes the blade to not hit/cut very deep or just slide off material. That's why when armor like chainmail, plate armor, or even just fur armor that the Mongols would use came into play which made it even harder or sometimes next to impossible for even perfectly aligned swords to cut through, bladed weapons fell out of favor for blunt force weapons like warhmammers or maces, which again, shares similarities in this discussion with hammer fists. You can easily mess up trying to hit a perfect knife/ridge hand to someone's weak point, especially a moving target in a close range scuffle. It's very hard to mess up a hammer fist or regular punch to someone's face.
Inverted backfist is one of the strongest strikes I've been able to test. Ridgehands are especially good if you strike with the forearm, and as a setup to the clinch. Spearhand is usually only useful if you condition your fingers.
20k already! Good stuff in here. I like the hammerfist instead of backfist suggestion; arm is stronger that way, no risk to back of hand, and protects head a bit better. My spin backfist is replaced with hammerfist as of now! Also pleased that your take on spinning techniques in the street echoes what I've always said: Don't set out to do it, but it's handy if you're already turned.
To tip a cow you have to reach between the hind legs grab the tail pull it back through the legs really fuckin hard while pushing against the body really fuckin hard. Not bullshit it works as long as they are under a 1000 lbs . Small farm work for the win. It also keeps them from getting back up as long as you don't let go of the tail and keep it pulled up and away from the body between the legs. Body mechanics for the win.
Cows don’t sleep standing up. Secondly cows are very sturdy animals. They weigh 1000-1400 depending on breed and age. Its Not easy at all to move them much less tip them.
So I know this technique where that chop come in handy. If someone points the tip of their knife at you ( which alot of inexperienced people think is good but it's actually bad because people can slap that knife away if you put it directly in front of them ) where you slap the knife with your dominant hand to the non dominant side then try to grab the hand holding the knife with your non dominant hand ( if you can't grab it that's alright you just need to back off after the chop ) while your dominant hand turns and chop to the front of the neck. That creates window to escape. And possibly window to attack. But other than that idk what chance are there to use this in a fist fight. ( Chop is preferred because it's harder to reach the neck with the fist when the chin is down and there's 60% chance that you'll miss a finger poke so chop is the only best choice.
Great video. Love me some hammer fists, tricky to train though without really hurting your partner - but if you land one they're good. I like to throw a jab to distract and set up the hammer. For palm strike training I have used helmet/ head protectors, to get used to hitting a moving target with them, but you still can't hit too hard, because there's quite a jolt. I train palms on a body opponent bag ( because it has a face) one small problem with palm strikes is that you lose at least an inch or two of reach - so slightly harder to gauge distance if you're used to punching- also my fists tend to close, punching feels a lot more natural, so under fight conditions much more likely to throw a punch ( or run away). Would probably revert to palms or hammer fists if I broke my hand during a fight ( like Keith Hackney vs Emmanuel Yarborough, UFC 2). Anyway, enough about me, enjoyed the video - going to look and see if you've got any clips on head-butting. Cheers.
I do open hand sparing. I made pads for the palm for that porous (yes they do look silly). We do everything the way you would in normal sparing but if you tend to go for the head you aim at the higher chest area and the shoulder. First a couple of light rounds and at the end we go full force (if you have any gas left). Its good fun...
The karate chop to the neck definitely works!🤣 I've never done it, but I have seen someone knocked out cold by it. Your entire body works well, as you have always said, you just have to make sure that your comfortable using your body that way before you need to.
The adaptation you talk about with spinning applies to knife hand strikes. The person can always dodge, and when they do, you adapt. An open hand can grab/grapple, etc..
I once threw a 720° double tornado kick in a street fight that popped the aggressors' eyes out of their eye sockets and made them simultaneously vomit and shit themselves. SpInNiNg KiCks WoRk On ThE StReEt MiKe?! 🤣
Great video as always! Here’s what I’d add: Straight palm strikes are different than slaps.- And not exactly in the same way that crosses differ from hooks. I wouldn’t really put them in the same category. Slaps with the meaty part of the hand can function like hooks, especially at reach range, and with little to no damage to the hand. From my experience, straight palm strikes aren’t really effective once the fight is “on”. I’ve been refereeing MMA since the 90’s at every level of the game. In my experience, I can’t recall one scenario where a straight palm strike affected the trajectory of a fight. HOWEVER, that’s not to say that they aren’t useful. I find them incredibly useful and effective when used as a preemptive strike against a static target that is standing flat footed and exhibiting threatening pre-assault cues. (Not in a sport) If this is thrown hard in a driving manner to the point of the chin, it works great. (I also think this has a lot to do with the fact that the threat isn’t wearing a mouthpiece.) After this first strike, continue with more conventional punch, kick, elbow, knee, repeat. Hammers vs backfists- agreed. Hammers are great, backfists are more limited, with potential damage to the back of the hand. The main difference I see is that the backfist, thrown downward across the brow line can easily cause nasty cuts. (See a “chopper” punch in old bare knuckle boxing) I do, however, find that hammers work best in scenarios where the target is against a barrier, or initiating some kind of clinch or takedown. I rarely see them working in a mix happening in free space. They work very well against the back of the head/brain stem and present interesting angles. Spinny things- I agree that spinny things are necessary for self defense. Elbows and hammers to be exact. I present them as options when the threat is on you at an oblique angle, and you have to aggressively defend from there. This concept is also useful if you have to engage a second threat that approaches from the back or side oblique. Sorry to be long winded! Keep up the good work, man, and be safe!!!
Myron Gaudet excellent explanation! I'd like to add that the proper intention of a backfist is to strike with the knuckles angled towards the target area, hitting it with the knuckles not with the upper hand bones which are vulnerable and could easily break on hard edges (jaw especially) or some block. I think the confusion comes from gloved fight sports, where the hand bones are protected and the proper wrist angle is obstructed by the glove. so it becomes more of a padded 'smack' with a large surface area and very little power unless it's done spinning. a proper barehanded backhand with the knuckles to the temple, neck, ribs, eye, basically all precision targets, can do a lot of damage.
Agree mostly on the hammerfist being a better option, but there are cases where a backfist is a good option, such as bringing it down on the nose, which is really difficult to do with a hammerfist due to the different angle. It's also a good option following a parry of something like a jab, which is another situation where the angle of the hammerfist works, but not quite as well. The ridgehand works best if it's aimed for the throat, in my opinion, still tough to land, but it's not really the sort of move you just throw out, if you use it as a follow up to another strike that actually lands it's a lot easier to pull off. The same goes with the knifehand, hitting the carotid can be pretty effective, and that surface isn't as likely to get damaged as a ridgehand, it also works best of you cut down on the angle you were using and set it up by landing something like a jab. Even if the person dodges it, the move doesn't really leave you overextended, and you're still delivering a lot of force. You can also use it to set up a clinch. Spearfists work pretty much exclusively when striking the throat, that's what it's made for, anyone who tells you that you can impale somebody with it is lying to you, or has watched one too many anime. The best way I've found is to do a palm strike, leave it extended to distract the person, then follow with the spearfist to the throat. All of these are situational moves, but are still useful to know in case the situation comes up. Spinning moves (especially the big ones) are a big risk, but they always have their uses. A spinning back kick in particular can be a good option for stopping an opponent who's rushing in, the spinning wheel kick can be useful for countering an opponent who does one of those really awful kicks where it's obvious that they don't actually know how to kick. These moves are better for competition though, as there are far fewer risks that come from using these techniques. Either way, if you're not 100% confident you can land it, don't try it.
Ridge hands are to be incorporated with grappling moves to target the nose or adams apple, backfist are for speed surprise attacks not necessarily power like a hammer fist - judo use to focus on techniques with ridge hands but got away from it over the years . Open hand chops should be used for close quarter strikes to the front of the throat not sides, the nose and side of the jaws - it should be applied with speed and angles. Like anything you have to train to use certain moves to pull it off
fkn fell of the couch...' how do you sop hopping?'..."just dont" hahahahaha jeeez you are so real. would love to train with you. great energy and authentic knowhow aka grips
Regarding palm strikes : we train with mouthguards at roughly 50%, just like a bare-knuckle boxer would do in thailand, or we use fat helmets (foamy, with a flexible but strong plastic cover (similar to those used in Kudo), to hit full-contact. (oh, and sometimes, we use gloves, so that at least students know what it feels like) Regarding spining relatively risk-free movements (hammer fists, or elbows) : they can be useful, when you're mostly trying to survive your way out of a melee (multiple opponents). They can help hitting somebody and protecting yourself at the same time while you're escaping a shitty situation
Could you explain why you don't believe that spinning back kicks are good for self defense? It's a powerful strike with more range than a standard side kick. I feel as though it's useful for keeping the attacker at a distance and causing damage, particularly if you aim for the body. If they get too close, you can clinch or shoot a single-leg.
My History teacher told me that the palm strike can knock someone's nose back into their brain, but I obviously couldn't tell her she didn't know what she was talking about
I like knife hands and ridge hands under very specific circumstances. I have one thing with the ridge hand I like for sparring. With the knife hand, I strike with anywhere from just in front of my elbow to about just shy of the edge of my hand. I love the hammer fist. Probably my go to strike for a beginner if I don't have a lot of time
What everyone forgets/misses about 'spinning' attacks is the quick 360 view glimpse you get of your surroundings while throwing the strike....this would allow one to see if there is a second attacker trying to sneak in at them while they are busy working with the first person. Anyone that thinks that a street fight is going to stay one on one, has not been in a real street fight before.
The only use I found for a ridge hand, is I would throw (in a left front stance) a right ridge hand way too close and when they blocked it, it would whip around and hit them in the back of the neck just below the skull. A blow like that will turn their consciousness off for about a half second and they'll end up leaning forward a few inches. That's where the left uppercut comes into play. When you throw the ridge hand, make sure to really ulnar deviate your wrist so the bones of your hand and fingers don't hit the skull. P.s. the block might hurt your bicep but my family has some weird genetics when it comes to pain and bruising so it wasn't really a problem for me.
Cool! Couldn't agree more with you on most of these. With two exceptions: palm strikes/hammerfists to the body, and the spinning back kick. I actually think the former two are less useful in self defence than the latter. I really can't see a hammerfist doing significant damage to the body unless you're quite a bit bigger than your opponent. A palm strike even much less so - unless you call shoving someone off a ledge a palm strike, I guess. There are reasons for not using your bare knuckles against a hard skull, but much less so against a reasonably soft torso, so fists are pretty much always going to be the much better option there. As for the spinning back kick: while I agree on not doing overly fancy high kicks during self defence, a spinning back/side kick to the liver is really a relatively simple technique that works in a variety of distances, isn't hindered by street clothes (wearing shoes even makes it more effective) and probably won't throw you off balance - provided you have practiced it enough. It wouldn't be among my first techniques of choice, but it's certainly nice to have in ones arsenal, especially in circumstances where you already find yourself turned in relation to your opponent for whatever reason.
I agree with most of what you said. I personally had a lot of success with the ridge hand. Of course I taught a soft art with a lot of circular motion. I found that by shortening that motion, when someone would block my punch, I could continue on and strike the side of the neck. I frustrated a lot of people whom i trained with because they would try to emulate my movements, however, I was able to block it. They would try to block it, and their mistake was dropping the hand after blocking, but I would simply still be in position to throw the strike again. As with every technique, it takes years of practice to become proficient with it. One my other favorites was the palm strike. I found that many do not realize that they can increase the force of the strike by thrusting the palm itself once you strike your target. Alas, Im old and disabled now, but I miss the years that I spent in the artsl Had many great times.
Yeah that's the problem... every technique doesnt take years to become proficient in. If a technique takes years to become proficient in, its because that technique sucks.
While I agree with the spear hand and wrist blocks sucking, anyone who isn't willing to put in years of practice can not really say they are 'proficient' with that technique. Period. If one is not willing to put in the time and dedication to train and truly be able to use a certain technique under any circumstance, they are kidding themselves when they say they are proficient with it. Thats the problem with 'self defense' instructors. They teach a few decent techniques and expect that after a few weeks, a person can walk away, forget it and expect to be able to use those techniques effectively in a stressful situation years later. You are kidding yourself and not doing any of your students a service when you try to tell them that they are proficient with a strike or technique they haven't worked until its second nature. Just like BJJ, its only a partial art because it only deals with grappling. But to each his own. Im long retired from the arts so I will simply say have fun. I didn't realize you were such an arrogant prick or I wouldn't have commented. I simply wanted to share a few things, but since you think you are such a badass, have fun with it.
I have found spinning side kick useful personally. It works alongside (I fight Orthodoxstance... right side back cause I’m right handed/footed) other side kicks. Front side kick is quicker to do, but lacks in range and power. With a deep cross step from behind front side kick has the most range and power (but more if I’m in south paw and kicking with the right leg.) Spinning back side kick has medium range and power and is faster than a front side kick with a wide cross step. If I put this move in a game like street fighter it would function as a special attack that you shouldn’t spam and need to set up, like Tatsumaki. Light version is a front side kick without much or any back step. So it’s quicker and good for punishing whiffed attacks. Also works well with a Jab Cross combo. Spinning back side kick would be medium. It also works better if you have a decent spinning hammer fist since you can use a similar motion to start each attack making it difficult to read if you’re doing side kick or hammer fist till it’s too late. So if they stepped or dodged back expecting a hammer fist they can get kicked. If they stepped sideways to avoid the kick they can get hammer fisted. Also works for feints designed to make and opponent step backwards so you can side kick into them. Light combos into medium. You can also just stance change after light if they try stepping back then so a long back step and kick with your dominant leg (most likely) as they’re stepping in the direction you’re kicking them... so helps knock someone backwards. But I mean.... while it’s useful. It’s not exactly something I would recommend doing all the time. Just a hard hitting attack that you can land more if you add in the spinning variant.
Hey just putting this out there. Me and friends I have been not only used open hand sparring (palm strike, spear hand, chops etc.) Even learn to use palm strikes to other parts of body, but I used my open hand style techniques during a REAL self defense situation.
I once did a palm strike on a cow. I thought it was tipping over but it was putting me in an arm lock :/
O-Mooo-plata?
@@IcyMikeP hi i don't do wrestling so I don't get the joke but thanks for the heart.
@@IcyMikeP nvm, i just looked up what an omoplata is....
@@Johnnyjoejoe ok so go ahead and give me my props for that joke then.
@@hard2hurt Props to you. 👍 That good? ☺
Congratulations on passing 10k! Well deserved. I think there's benefit to sparring with open hand slaps to the face, works well when you mix with bare knuckles to the body. The emotional control needed out ways the risks and it gives you greater versatility in using your hands. Keep up the good work. Love your videos.
#fistthatfits
The check is in the post. ;-)
Like both yours and fight science both you make good videos but sometimes you can miss the point your saying facts palm strike works, chop does if you get in precise place spinning elbows great, spinning kicks and back fist fail in street fight and no matter how good you are if you hit to head i mean head not jaw line you will break hands
Yeah, I think it's more about knowing your sparring partner and knowing what's what. I've sparred with a couple people where we could do this stuff
I should've known you watch this channel too ...
A good spinning back elbow can be devastating. Any elbow actually...
The people's elbow!
I got caught with one years ago while doing some infighting training with a student. He pulled it but he would have caught me cleanly if he'd landed it with intent - His ten years of kung-fu training found a place that day.
what about a dislocated elbow? it can be pretty devastating too
Dude why did you say it thats my defense!
@Jeremy Backman That sucks man, i broke my nose in judo when i was 12 or something. its healed pretty well luckily, it wasnt terribly broken tho. Hope you heal well.
My father studied in Japan in the 60's received his shodan before coming back to the U.S. the edge of his hands were like iron. Getting hit with it was the real deal.
Yeah, most Americans in America though don't do that kind of conditioning. Its kind of like tiger claw, you may have the hand power, but, their finger tips aren't turned into stone (figuratively)
I damn hope he didn't spanl yo ass with those hands lol
"Spinning attacks only work if you do it with a jumping uppercut while yelling, 'Shoryuken!' Remember, dragon punch them THROUGH the esophagus."
@@MaharlikaAWA Sounds like someone who couldn't defeat Shen Long. Tatsumaki Senpukaku works too. Just remember to yell "SHINKU!" first.
@@MaharlikaAWA WHOOSH!
Full aware dude. The joke flew over your head. The quotation marks are supposed to show that it was a joke. If the mentioning of non-existent techniques weren't enough.
Sooo... you know it's a joke but continue to respond as if you don't? Weird. Somebody needs a hadouken.
@@MaharlikaAWA, in washing machines.
@@MaharlikaAWA Only attention whores and midgets jump up in the air to use hammer fist or slag Master Wong off on UA-cam. OK maybe fleas do as well but they don't count cuz they're too small too see. What style is that? Van Gogh! :)
The ridge hand was one of the favourite hand techniques use during the 80's in karate tournaments in America. Lots of guys get knockout by it, when they connected the ears temple.
Yeah it is underrated. I have seen some spectacular examples like you describe. You do have to be careful, you don't just slam it in as hard as you can, that's how your break your hand. But if it is delivered accurately and with the right amount of speed, power and snap then it definitely drops people.
Bas Rutten has also made usage of spinning attacks, especially in works to recover from a botched move or a dodging opposition.
Bas Rutten is a ninja though, he broke a mans spleen with a palm strike
Bas is one of my idols.
@@IcyMikeP he is just amazing, what he doesn't know about fighting probably isn't worth knowing
Bas Rutten does shit out of Mortal Kombat
@@driver3899 It was a liver.
Some of the ancient master used a technique called "Aggressive Tickling" and if you think that's some kind of joke... then you've already fell prey to it's power.
Reason1717 there's an effective ancient counter technique to that that's called the liquid halitosis loogie, taught by monks who cultivated their breath, their phlegm and their aim for dozens of years to achieve instant vomiting, choking and effective paralysis of anyone trying to aggressively tickle them.
although they need only to blow on an opponent to make them hurl in agony, their loogie finishes them off permanently.
You forgot the forbidden tendon tickle of death.
You think its funny but I've used ticking to win wrestling and Jujitsu matches....very uncomfortable those fingers digging into your ribs.
Seriously man im 14 ive done mma sonce i was 8 i am well balanced i like strikin and jiu jitsu and my play jiu jitsu against my father i sometimes lock a guillotine on him he start tickling me and bam im defensless he alway does the only this i can get on him is an armbar even the rear naked choke is useless he tickles me to the body im getting mad
@@joegeagea8097 , well I am sure you know I meant my post as a joke. But your example has a hidden explanation of course. We react to tickling mostly in our minds. Say if someone you loved passed. And then you were tickled you'd find no laughter reaction. Which is due the mental link to tickling. Train well friend.
have never sparred someone with palm strikes because the legit danger of rupturing someones eye ball with a finger poke. For this same reason I think its a great idea for self defense situations, especially of your doing a long guard and your lead hand is open at their eye level. So many mma fights get eyepokes from this.
A man can't see, he can't fight. Cobra Kai!
Also on da streetz I think using a palm instead of closed fist is the way to go for your dominant (rear) hand because less chance of breaking it, and depending on what situation your in your life might depend on you being able to use it to do something dexterous a some point (open a door, lock a door, use a phone, hold a weapon ect.)
I say strike (jab) with a closed lead hand for sure though, thats the first line of defense. if the lead hand breaks a bone or has a tooth hanging out of it its not as big a deal as the dominant hand in my eyes.
Yes, you have a legit point here, using palm strike in sparring is dangerous for the opponent, but in the street fight, facing the enemy, palm strike works, and rupturing their eyes is a good attack too.
Dirt Diver Cobra Kai never dies!
Dirt Diver don't forget to sweep the leg.
The problem with spearhand in self defense is when you go for it intentionally. If it doesn't land perfectly, you're injuring yourself. That said, open-hand strikes are pretty good for self preservation (not a mutual combat situation). Open-hand slap or push to the face, and fingers/thumbs are in a good place to poke, tear, and rip at the soft, vulnerable parts of the face- eyes, ears, nose, mouth (if you really want to try a fishhook there). But those are moves you get incidentally, an added thing to do only after you get the initial hit.
I'm pretty sure the deadly palm strike to the nose thing came from the movie Billy Jack. There's a scene where he's supposed to hit a guy in the nose so hard the guy dies on the spot. The story goes that they film it and watch the dailies, and nobody in the room gets what happened. So they decided to add the dialog "He just pushed his nose bone into his brain" or something like that to make the scene play better. So now, 30-40 years later, everybody knows for a fact that an open palm strike to the nose can be fatal because of a throwaway scene in an old chop-sockey exploitation film.
Master Wong is my favorite anime. I really hope they add him on Mortal Kombat as a guest character.
Well, Mortal Kombat for sure is "for the streetz".
Master Wobg is too op
Lol! What would his finishing move be?
@@danielhmanning Rip his opponents nuts and send em to their mother.
@@danielhmanning Hakai
Love the video! My thoughts on the “praying mantis strike”. I learned it in Wing Chun as sort of a backup method of striking that is only applicable under specific circumstances. We were taught that it can be used if your hand is injured/broke/cut as it may be in a self defense. It’s used in close clinching range to the neck or under the jaw and the power comes from the elbow. It is not ideal when you can close-hand punch instead but it is another tool you can pull out when you need it. I would wager that it is actually better for self defense than sport fighting, but again, never as a primary means of attack. Essentially, it was taught to me as a legit strike but there is a specific way to execute it and is only appropriate at the right moment. Closed hand punches are always better.
When my Kempo Sensei taught it, he told us that we should never actually use it in a fight. He just said it was one of those left over things from back when martial artists trained their bodies to be able to sustain damage to the hands and wrists without serious pain. He also refers to it as a “chicken wrist”
I learned the mantis fist can be quite a good way to deflect punches upwards or sideways, and thus opening the opponent for an immediate counter, but as you say, there are other hand techniques more readily available to more situations. another pointer is that the bunched up fingers are ideally striking at the eyes of the opponent, thus you deflect a punch upwards and then strike downwards with your hand towards the opponent eye to gain an advantage.
Hmm, I was taught in WC it was useful only to deflect or hook an arm temporarily and then whip it into soft tissue like the face, ear, etc. as a distraction or to open an angle. Ideally we would use it to do/feint groin strikes to open the high line. I always felt forearm strikes, and whipping fingers at eyes made more sense.
That's an interesting concept - wrist strikes as an emergency backup if your hand has already been busted up in some way. The same strikes/blocks are found in Goju-Ryu karate - Tensho kata is even very similar Wing Chun's Siu Lim Tao form - but they always struck me as a bit iffy. Thanks for sharing a decent reason to know them!
@@senoB yeah we used it that way too. We were taught multiple interpretations of many of the techniques, like a screwdriver that can be used in defferent ways but its still the same tool
In kungfu, I was taught to actually strike with the outer edge of the palm (from pinky to wrist joint) instead of the full on palm. It concentrates the power into a smaller area, and is pretty nice for striking targets on the neck. I throw them out like jabs, and it's pretty fast. With the smaller impact area, it's almost like a knife hand, but faster.
The spear hand, after some experimenting, I find to be interestingly suited for a quick jab or swipe to the eye after guarding from a hook. I didn't throw it straight out, but really just a quick poke with the fingers.
The mantis hand I find to be a good followup to an inside...ward, I guess you'd call it, or redirect, against a straight or a jab. For me, it's like the equivalent to a jab. Completely different body mechanics, but the speed I can throw it is somewhat similar. Not something I'd use in a combo, but as a counter and set up for grapple. Actually, the way I'd use it is similar to your straight-hammerfist combo if I were to use it offensively.
I also use it as replacement for an uppercut. Doesn't have as much power, but I can throw it faster with less movement and commitment to the motion. It's supposedly good for a strike to the armpit, and I can kinda see that. It's a nice gotcha strike for me.
Well, those are my thoughts from my experimentation. Hope it helps.
It is similar in karate, for palm strikes use the "pinky side" of the palm. You don't want to use the thumb side, because the thumb joint is there and it is more fragile, you can mess up your thumb pretty bad. And yeah you cannot practice it with any power, you can only do light sparring with it. Even bags aren't that great for it. You want something like a makiwara for it, i.e. a big plank of wood with a little padding. Still hard to train all the angles though.
Cool
I like the idea of a fast knife hand. Thanks for the tip.
That shit don't work
@@graffitionthefloor You tried?
"If your avatar on facebook is an anime character, you can't fight." - truth.😭
You wouldn't survive my Spear Hand Oil Check of the Ancient Sleeping Dragon technique though.
Ah yes, the Short Throw Dipstick method of Biu Jee.
Known only to the most highly trained of the Autozone family of Ancient Slappyhands Method Kung Fu.
A deadly skill!
@@ISZAudio Not sure if its a rly bad joke or u just dont know what oil check is.
@@jaybee7271
> sees "Ancient Slappy Hands" and "Short throw Dipstick"
> not sure if joke
Come on dude, obviously a joke. I was riffing off yours. If someone owns a car and doesn't know how to do an oil change or even how to check their oil, shame on those people.
I'm in the middle of rebuilding my 99 ZX2's engine, and come summer, prepping my Mustang GT for a supercharger install.
Gonna be fun :D
@@ISZAudio Not sure if "a rly bad joke".
In grappling sports oil check reffers to putting your finger/fingers inside of your opponents ass.
But good luck on your build.
@@jaybee7271 that's fucking horrifying.
I thought you were referencing cars for some reason.
Good info! I think what people don't realize about chops and "pokes" is that you have to spend some time training your hands to actually do them. If you see somebody who can actually legit do them against hard surfaces....check out their hands. They are usually massive, large, effed up looking hands! Regular bare knuckle punching can also hurt if you have not trained your knuckles. The palm strike is probably the least painful strike to do with lesser trained hands.
You did iiiiit! :D
Yeah bro/sis... half a goddamn video straightening you out.
@@IcyMikeP I'm actually fanboying.
@@TheGalaxyCrusher Not quite.
Funny enough it's actually from the VA of the TF2 Scout. He kinda gave me the nick when i was watching his streams.
Sadly, i don't play Warframe. It's a great game, though.
Apparently you can't fight now 😏
@@ubcroel4022 😓
Hey - my school spars, full contact, with open-palm strikes. However, we're an Arnis school, so...
1. We're all wearing full Arnis/Kendo/Stickfighitng (hard metal cage) headgear. So when you do it, it really just knocks their cage up and back, and sorta blinds them for a moment. (It also pushes them back onto their heels.) We also (for safety) restrict the strikes to straight strikes (ie, no haymakers or whatnot) - just straight out from the chest.
2. We also wear hand protection (street hockey gloves, mainly) - so while there's a bit of padding involved, although not a lot on the palm/inside of the glove.
3. Because it's stickfighitng, you almost never do it, unless you're specifically practicing your corto (short-range) - it's mainly a distraction technique to knock someone's head up and back while you're ramming a stick into their gut and hitting them over the head.
And yeah - our school mainly uses standard punches, with the occasional hammer strike (as it's a near-copy of a stick swing).
Every once in a while I'll still hear full grown adults that legitimately believe you can palm strike someones nose into there brain...and they'll argue back when you tell them its bullshit! "Nah dude it could totally happen"
Ive had the same argument with many people lol
For real I thought it was just some immature ass shit people only said 30 years ago but there are still dumb fucks that say that.
@@IcyMikeP I'm sure it's because of this movie "Con air" with Nicolas Cage, he does it, at the beginning of the movie, in a self defense situation and goes to jail because of it.
I had this conversation last week...
A person's head would have to be fixed in place for that to even possibly be effective. A better idea is to Palm strike somebody's head into a brick wall or the pavement. Now, that make kill a person. Good luck claiming self-defense with that.
Why are you boys always in a car park with concerned people looking on ?
Their gym is in one of the buildings.
Bathroom keeps backing up
@Patrick Hough there's more light outside.
Maybe there are too many people using the gym.
Patrick Hough This ain’t for the gym. It’s for DA STREETZ!!
The best thing about palm strikes is that they come with the patented Jon Jones' eye pokes.
One of my main move is a judo chop, I learned that from inspector cluso pink panther movies .
I stopped teaching the soo do chop. I still teach the ridge hand, but towards softer parts of the bidy. Its true. In a sparring match friend of mine broke his hand, aiming towards a neck and the guy moved and he hit his skull..crack. mind you he broke bricks with that..legit bricks..but he broke his hand exactly the way you said
Haa, true. Infact my instructor said, its not meant for tg he head..infact its used to apply look leverage in grappling mostly
@James Lewis no he broke for five bricks he was pretty condition we do it with a yuksu many times. He broke his hand because the top of the skull is stronger than any brick sorry but that's just Medical Science that's why I'm dirty boxing people with bob their head down so you punch him right on the skull which is oddly enough where you do a head butt from. Point is sudos are not practical anymore maybe to the side of the neck if they don't move but people move when you Spar people move they don't sit still
@James Lewis ok this is funny
House Of Warriors so you think if you hit the top of someone's head with a brick the brick would lose?
James Lewis you do know what MMA is and stands for, right?
I always though palm strikes were great but as soon as sparring begins I find I go right back to regular punches. The one place I really saw them work well was a coworker who had a hand issue and once I took her to a gym with a heavy bag and let her see palm strikes at work she was much more confident in her ability to use her training and defend herself because she could put power into the palm strikes that she couldn't into her punches.
I asked the man in the shop "Have you got any Bulldog clips?"
He replied "No, but I've got a nice video of a Jack Russell"
Love your videos! Disagree a bit on knife hand. Fighting in a point tournament in the 80's, I had a guy open his fist into a knife hand for reach and hit me high in stomach with it. I dropped to my knees. My combat sports experience is pretty deep - I've cornered at the UFC a few times and judged at a UFC in 2017. Great work again on your channel.
Ur deep combat experience, was advising and judging people.......
I've used "shuto" or Karate-chop twice as a bouncer and it worked just fine. I guess my opponents didn't know that that's the technique which doesn't work if you duck.
I have seen some Karate people do amazing things with shuto, just because some guys can't get it to work does not mean it does not work
@@mrunkn0wnx if someone wants it to work they maybe should start train it.
Agreed. If you train it, and can break board and bricks with it, it's going to cause damage and be effective. Shutos work as do ridge hands if you train them. An inverted/reversed ridge hand is an amazing un-telegraphed intro shot that will break a nose easily. The logic that your opponent will move and you miss with a shuto is faulty as that can happen with any shot. The critique of "mantis" is also not fair. It's devastating if you train it. It's old school, but I've met old Okinawan practitioners that had deformed wrists from conditioning and you didn't want them to hit you with it. I'll agree with hard2hurt's assessment of back knuckle vs hammer fist. All you gotta do is try some board breaks with a back knuckle to realize that it hurts more than it's probably worth in a real fight.
This video says that shuto doesn't work, right?
So why it is not allowed in UFC rules?
That's because your opponents are probably drunk or have 0 training
Anything that works, period, works for self defense. You just have to be more discerning with the risk assessment, especially if you are not justifiably confident in your ability to pull it off.
That's kind of true but there are exceptions aren't there? What about round house kicks to the body? I probably wouldn't use them outside of matches, but they do work for matches so...
@@jestfullgremblim8002 Like I said, you would probably want to be more cautious about using a risky technique, but if you could use it effectively in a match, then you could do it in a street fight. There's no reason not to ever slam your shin into someone's liver or solar plexus in a street fight if you have a clear opportunity to land it without winding up on the ground. There is the same type of risk as in the cage of getting taken down if they catch it or counter you, but you also have to consider the fact that NOT throwing an effective strike when you have the opportunity to land it can increase the likelihood of you losing the fight, which defeats the purpose of that caution to begin with.
@@bunklypeppz oh wait, i think that i had that mindset because of the way in which i use the roundhouse kicks.
I mainly use them to condition my opponets to do something about them and then i use that reaction against them, rather than to hit them in the liver or something haha
Dude, karate chop to the neck together with the forearm can be devastating... remember the karate instructor vs pimp video?
Francisco González Ramírez was wondering if anyone would bring that up
Brian Anderson Tough to land though.
damn thats an old video
That was more of a misplaced back fist if I recall
The chop can be effective provided you ruin your hands practicing it. My Karate teacher practices chop everyday and he’s crazy enough to chop a wooden pole every single day. The sides of his hands are cover with thick skin and callouses, you think its solid rock and when touching them. Effective but not worth it imo.
Dang Mike, you're totally right that the hammerfist is a more effective version of the backfist! You don't lose any range and the tradeoff is a huge increase in power. I've never actually implemented my style's backfists as power strikes because I instinctively knew from my time on the bag that I'd break my knuckles pulling that nonsense. I'll give the hammerfist a try next time though, thanks.
You said someone could easier duck or move from a chop and you have to be more accurate, but couldn't the same be said for a punch?
Cross chops are done in a wider angle than a straight job or a straight punch. some styles shorten the motion, making it less telegraphed than a Haymaker, but it is still telegraphed nonetheless.
It still has its time and place, like the hook, but it's not going to be used too often. Especially not with the way most die-hard traditional zealots try to throw it out.
@Nikolaij Brouiller Again you can apply the same logic. Some people telegraph punches and straight ones can be slipped either side. A good chop to the neck is more like a hammer first.
As you said concealing your movements is the key, but that can also be done with a chop. They all have a place and it also depends on who's using it.
@@AlexanderGent have you check my last kung fu video
@@AlexanderGent Nah. Hammer fist always transfers more force and protects your hand.
The problem with the chop is your knuckles are not locked fully and can slip one over another if you hit a hard target, breaking your hand. Smaller surface area can only do so much if the force is to be lower to not break the hand...
everything can work and everything can fail depends on your opponent. I never thought a crane kick could work but then machida proved me wrong lol
Well said. Too many people have trouble differentiating between street fighting and tournament fighting. Hammer fists are great and generate a tremendous amount of power. I have to incorporate an open palm due to a fused knuckle. I hammer the bag but haven't sparred as you mentioned.
7:40 "High, low, BOOM, fake step, BING! right? BING! Yknow?"
Love this guy. A lot of old school techniques in his videos, plus, the instruction is crisp, refreshing, and no-bullshit. Also, he seems like the kind of guy I'd have a beer with
When talking about palm strikes, I was always imaging something like Fairbairn's Chin Jab which is a little bit like an uppercut, with full body...
The practical use of spear hand I've been taught (and it tends to work) is that you strike at the neck area to 1) harm the neck directly 2) More impotantly, you use it to get a grip of his gi or shirt collar, in order to pull them close for a headbutt, knee strikes, and strangling them with their own shirt and wrestle them to the ground to mount, preferably in that order. Against an unprepared opponent is a good set up for pretty damaging close quarter blows. The obvious disadvantage is that this does not work if your opponent is shirtless. instead of that you try to lock the back of their neck, but that is a gable, as that requires a little extra distance and is easier to get wrong or slip from.
An acquaintance was fighting in competition, his opponent (who had massive mittens) punch the forehead and broke his hand good despite hand wraps and boxing gloves.
Hmm.
Ideally, you hit hard targets with soft weapons and soft targets with hard weapons. Punch a brick wall, yeah, you're gonna break fingers. A palm strike to the forehead will radiate some pain without busting your own hand in the process.
I get where you're coming from with the backfist. Might just be my perception, but the backfist feels a little bit quicker to me. I usually don't use it to inflict a lot of damage, but to either just lightly hit and set up another punch (a short uppercut with the same hand for example) or to simply punch my opponents guard away. So yes, it's not a power punch, but it's cool for set ups.
Shuto strikes are legit.
Yes, they are. You're turning your hand into a "cutting tool".
Think he needs to look a little more on okinawan karate . And obviously we all know why you can’t use shuto strikes in mma ufc etc. why ??? Not dogging him out because I agree with some of what this guys says but not all of it. Hit makiwara and you’ll know . I’ve studied Matsubayashi Ryu for 30+ years and the fighting technique is something that folks don’t know much about . Watch Budo art of killing .
@@ericweikel6045 is shuto outlawed in MMA?
@@te9591 your not allowed to strike the neck at all. As far as knowledge goes. Tell me if I’m wrong. Obviously it happens when someone misses a strike sometimes.
@@ericweikel6045 i dont follow MMA to know. But shuto can be used to strike other areas outside the neck, and are a cousin to crossfaces.
I know I'm a little late to the party here, guys, recent fan once I came back to the scene. I've been doing combat sports and self-defence for about 17-18 years, my memory is a little hazy as I near 30 and I apologize. Palm and ridge hands are an important part of the original style I studied, IN COMBOS. It's more of a deterent for non commitment from an opponent. However, a ridge hand to the throat or a palm strike to the sternum done with serious intent can lead to some pretty serious conclusive damage. I would recommend and personally lead those or set up with distraction and misdirection. It makes them especially drop their guard around their chest. That's my TED talk, thanks for reading!
Agree with most, just two things that I find to be BS
1) open palm strikes leave you very vulnerable to sprained wrists (I'll say from experience, not good in a fight)
2) not using spinning kicks in a fight, while I agree for the most part, the spinning side/back kick to the body is great for maintaining distance and can really hurt your opponent (see Barboza vs Hooker if you don't believe me). This said, only throw the kick if you have proper training, else you might botch it and end up in trouble
When I play with palm strikes sometimes I tweak my wrist a little... because I dont practice them. I think the difference between palm and fist is probably similar in risk as well as mitigation of that risk with practice
@@IcyMikeP
yeah if you train palm strikes its possible to do them just fine, Pankration guys do them full force and give zero concerns
@@woffordswaymartialartschar5541 Couldn't really understand what you were trying to say, the English here isn't great but I shall try to interpret it and reply nonetheless.
There is no proven fact about palm strikes being better than fist strikes (if you disagree please point me to proof). As a boxer myself, I can attest to the fact that closed fists strike work effectively and there is only a small chance of getting injured provided you exercise caution, however the same can be said for palm strikes. At the end of the day, I've been boxing for 2 years, yet I've only sprained my wrist once and that was by playing rugby, palm strikes are more risky for sprained wrists. All in all, it comes down to what you've trained, if you've trained with palm strikes and are really proficient with them, use them. However, if you have no training and find yourself in a fight, I would say to use a closed fist as it will finish the fight more quickly.
@@woffordswaymartialartschar5541 Like I said, point me to evidence. Palm strikes are in no way stronger than closed fists, it sounds like you have listened to the same whacko martial artists who will tell you that something like Aikido will actually work in a fight. A fist strike will deliver the same amount of force as a palm strike, with less chance of injury. On top of that, knuckles are sharper bones and will cause more injury to the target (ie. cuts, swelling etc). In terms of martial artists experiencing both palm strikes and fist strikes, all of the ones I know use fist strikes. And at the very top of the ladder, legendary karate fighters Stephen Thompson and Lyoto Machida, both of whom fight in the UFC, use closed fist strikes as opposed to palm strikes.
A common misconception of both sides, the pro-goofy-strikes and contra-goofy-strikes, is that these allegedly goofy strikes aren't intended to be done with unconditioned hands. These are old-school technique that depend on old-school training. That means neither the watered down American Karate bullshit nor the still watered down Japanese Shotokan sports Karate.
Authentic old training style that incorporates these techniques depends on thorough conditioning that makes you not only comfortable at hitting bones, it makes the opponent not want to get hit with such heavily hardened hands. Hands that have been hitting tough material for years don't care if they hit bone, they just land and maybe break it without feeling pain in the hands. Also, the infamous spear hand are OF COURSE a ridiculous attempt with unhardened hands. You need to condition your hands for this for years by striking into bags of graines/pellets, continually changing to more coarse material, e.g. from peas to iron pellets. If done so, these hands not only don't get hurt, they can delivere painful punctual attacks to the torso without the fingers giving in to the impact or pain in the tips.
It's an interesting point. I think Morio Higaonna of the IOGKF (Okinawan Goju-Ryu) is one of the few people around today who has spent their life practising these old school conditioning techniques. I'm pretty sure that guy could hit you just about anyway, with any part of his hand or body, and it would be be a painful experience for you (not him).
But the real question is - is it practical for most people? Is it worth the time and effort and trade-offs relative to the benefits you gain? The answer is almost certainly not. It's a prime example of working harder, not smarter. Use the right strike for the right target instead, and focus your no doubt limited training time on practical things.
I'm pretty sure even Morio Higaonna does it in order to preserve the historical aspect of the art as a tradition, not because of it's practical self-defense applications.
Great post.
It reminds me that Im old , decrepit and require a revolver.
As of 8/2/2021, at 1703 hours: you're at 360 thousand subscribers: 350 thousand more from where you were at 4/21/2019. You got 350 thousand more subscribers in the span of JUST TWO YEARS. Keep up the good work, Icy Mike!
"Yea come see me on tekken" 🤣🤣
I love your sense of humour. Your videos are very technical. Well done
EDIT: [CONTEST CLOSED] Question for Viewers: Can you guess what's in the package? First person to get it right gets a free t-shirt! [CONTEST CLOSED]
freedom reaper
Toaster
It's pretty obvious what's in that package: my fan letter.
The subject for the next vid.
(resists making joke about mikes package)
I think the only reason to use open hand strikes it to “shorten” your weapon for when your tied up and can’t generate power from the entire body and still land with the knuckles. A chop or hammerfist also allows you to generate more force when you can only throw and punch than you can with a punch. Same with a palm strike, it gives you a fist length more worth of distance to accelerate your arm, so if your really tied up and in close and the elbow isn’t a good option, you’re going to have more room to generate force, especially if you counterlever your wrist by starting with your hand more straight and then letting flick it back as you palm strike, something you can’t do with a fist. Overall, in a fight when it’s hard to think, simple is better so your better off just using fists but there’s definitely angles and scenarios where open hand strikes would do more damage than close fists, but in those scenarios your probably just better off grappling, but mma fights clearly show how important clinchwork and “dirty boxing” is. Alex Pereira for example uses karate chops against the cage. Being who he is, there’s no way he does those unless he thinks those are the most effective strikes for gim yo be throwing in that scenario.
Spear hand works man, in ufc some fighters hit the eyes of the opponents, many times they said it was an accident, but it works. But you have to be merciless to do that.
I agree... I'd only use on a very soft and vulnerable part of the body and I'd have to be sure I was accurate.
The only time I'd ever use it is to the throat instead of crushing their esophagus. Other than that 3 jammed fingers with my opponent laughing at me doesnt sound fun
Man, raking the eyes is legitimately taught in some styles of Kempo, and for self defense why not, right?
yeah spear hand is designed for eyes, and a couple of other soft parts of the body, like the throat. I still wouldn't use it though, my fingers are not conditioned enough. But I have seen old karate people with insanely tough hands who I would not like to get spear-handed by.
I think a hammerfist is better than a ridge hand for a similar kind of strike, but I have knocked an opponent across the room with a ridgehand to the temple (accidentally...too much force in sparring...about 3/4).
4:48 - imagine a guy who spends years doing hand conditioning to have a hope of making it work without a major risk of hand injury... only to realize he has trouble typing on keyboard/touchscreen because his fingers are too thick and not responsive enough. If martial arts are a way to defend your life from death or life-altering injuries, then it's a failure a priori.
I'm a complete amateur but at old Japanese combat systems class I was taught that the great thing about for example knifehands is consistency across possible ways in which you might be armed. If you are getting pubescent boys to turn them into warriors by only teaching them *one* movement system that should work unarmed, with hidden weapons like knives or combat chains, with sidearms like katanas, or with polearms like naginatas; knifehands are a great thing to practice bodily movement habits for ALL of that AT ONCE. The movements have slight modifications depending on the weapon, but that you are going to practice in a specialized way when it is known where you are going to be deployed.
A friend hit me with a ridge hand ..... I couldn't chew for a week ..... it felt like my face was on fire after he hit me ... very strange sensation
He concentrated his chi in his hand.
Probably had your mouth open.
Trigeminal nerve contusion.
You're lucky you got better; some people don't, and they call that the suicide nerve for a reason...
The ridgehand works. Its a thing in karate. Basically a real life clothesline. Its a move bass rutten himself advocates to penetrate a tight guard. The edge of the wrist can be conditioned to be as hard as a fist and its also the upper body equivalent of a low round house kick to the leg, an optimal power strike to get your opponent to respect you so you can transition into throwing high low mixups or off beat combinations.
They are 100% legit, but the secret lies in conditioning.
If you conditioned your palms to be as hard as steel , one palm strike to the face is as lethal as a punch
A palm strike to the head is even better than punching. While punching the head , there's a risk of Injuring your fists , but not with palm strikes ,if you conditioned them well
Alex Ong it's especially useful during groundfighting and clinching.
we practice palm strikes sometimes while wearing a helmet with visors in sparring, that works but you cant go 100% with it either because you definitely feel it
"if your avatar it's an anime character you can't fight"
I mean as far as I know he is not wrong XD
Israel Adesanya?
The context for traditional movements are neck and knee attacks done in motion for mele attacks. Without that context, its far better to do fight sports geared toward 1:1 competition. Spinning is best done when surrounded or after an initial collision as you see football players do with a spin move to stay in motion. Backfist is a technique geared toward the neck/collar bone which ultimately hits downward. It can start as a hammer fist, but then rotates down giving you control of their head which you can then bounce off of something stone. Palm strikes can be used for distance, but really are best done in close quarters in order to create distance and transition to body control. Its the space between striking and wrestling. In Chinese martial arts they say that fists are the general and the palms are the helpers. One is yang, the other yin.
You're like a mean version of al kavadlo 🤣🤣
Spinning techniques are also great for getting out of arm locks. A spinning back fist is better than a hammer fist in that you are less likely to break the ulna bone in your forearm. The Spear hand is not usually a strike in itself, but in kata is usually used as part of a throwing technique. Though it can be used as a carotid blip (like they do in judo) or an eye gouge, it is not effective as a finger tip strike. It can also be used as an anti choke defence.
If anyone else gets those 'Modern Barbarian" ADs do not fall for that crap please.
Hahah i just got that Bs add on this vid😂
@@arminghandi4848 lol yeah that minute they tried saying a "spec op" friend of his that has over "600" street fights I smelled BS
I agree with most of this although the ridgehands and chops dont just go to the neck. Imagine either one to the nose, or ear or jaw, thats gonna do some damage. Also alot of these techiques are very effective and strong against hard targets assuming you had good makiwara type training, like the old masters used to do, used also for demonstrating breaking techniques., plenty of footage on YT of this. Also the ridgehand can come round and over the top like a bowling type punch, not just straight out.
2k subscribers more in over a week few weeks good job man
I do full contact sparring with wing chun and we tend to use open hand and closed fist depending on what we are trying to do in terms of the technique. Palm strikes and back fists (not so much the back fist) are actual moves in the art but are mostly used when we aren't actually trying to injure our opponent. You can say its a safety precaution incase and in my opinion the palm strike teaches control of a technique so that you don't hurt yourself or your partner while learning how to execute the move and then applying the fist when you feel a little comfortable so that now you can practice it with more damage. Plams are also a very safe way to practice finger striking without hurting your partner if you are new at it.
How do you deal with fighters much more powerful than you? See max Holloway vs Dustin poirier
So you try and weather the storm until his energy fades and then pour it on. The more naturally powerful you are the quicker you gas. Defense and footwork have to be perfect though or you get fucked up in the process. (See Max Holloway vs. Dustin Poirier lol)
I'd pull out my H&K VP9 and threaten to shoot him in the kneecap. I remind him that I'm not a great shot and I could hit him in the groin or spine instead, leading to even worse injuries than a shattered knee.
I don't know, dudes, i saw lot's of KOs off spinning backfist back in the PKA Karate days (full contact).
You are right that you cannot practice palm strikes safely against a partner, not against the face anyways. You would be permanently injuring your training partners... but that is why they are so effective in a real fight. I had a petite student whose brother thought Kung Fu was a joke... She felt horrible because she really hurt him even though they were just horsing around. That classic World War Two Chin Jab ain't no joke.
But you are wrong about a hand sword strike. It is a power chop with a sweet spot from your hand to mid forearm. It is perfect as a power shot, entire body mass behind it. And the target is ONLY the neck, that big V between the head and shoulder... It is a much easier target to hit than the head. (Neck punches used to be very common in old school bare knuckle boxing for a reason) Yes, against guys with seriously beefy necks, it will be more difficult, but then, beefy guys are why we invented weapons in the first place...
I also K.O.d a dude with a spinning hammer fist. He slipped my haymaker and ended up behind me, so as I turned to face him, I swung for the fences, rabbit punched him, and he ended up with a concussion... just sayin'... If it is stupid and it works, then it ain't stupid. ;)
I take Seido karate, and one of my training partners, was previously a black belt in Aikido. He showed me some of his palm strikes; they would devastate anyone in a real fight with just one or two hits. They're not "palms" when moving towards you; they're big legs of slightly thawed frozen lamb.
@@rocketassistedgoat1079 Ha! Exactly. It sounds cheesy, but some techniques really are too deadly for competition. :)
@@gatocles99 Palms really split the dojo. Whilst all the males are expected to do pressups on their front two knuckles-to strengthen them, the reality is; we do that because you can easily break your hand on an opponents forehead. Palms are a "safer" alternative which has many converts, but honestly, I hate the thought of breaking my wrist so much more than breaking a finger [which I've done twice, including last year-once sparring open handed, once by punching a guy on the forehead]; so I'd rather condition my knuckles and risk breaking one of them. It heals a lot faster than a broken finger too, let alone [shudder]; a broken wrist.
@@rocketassistedgoat1079 The wrist is fundamentally stronger than the hand, just on size of bones and joints alone, but without proper strengthening and conditioning, both will fail miserably in a fight. And even then... people with strong hands like American Football offensive linemen, and Sumo wrestlers dislocate their fingers and sprain their wrists all the time. The hand is not evolved for striking, but for grasping a weapon to strike with... Humans only invented Karate(unarmed combat) because we were denied weapons by tyrants. Old School Karate actually uses comparatively few strikes and a lot more clinching and throwing, and holding and hitting... illegal in sports Karate, but excellent in a fight. Holding and hitting is why there is no "striking first" in Karate...get the clinch first... and it is the secret to never missing your strike(According to Gichin Funakoshi). Ironically, the best way to strengthen both palm strikes and fists, is to strengthen your grip. Pull ups and clean and press until your grip fails, or use a Chi Ishi to grip failure.... daily. If you look at many martial artists, their hands are often so weak they cannot even close them completely into a solid fist. A martial artist wants forearms like Popeye.
The issue with knife and ridge hand strikes is similar in concept to using bladed weapons in sword dueling, which is edge alignment. Trying to duel with a sword, especially if the other person is wearing any type of protective clothing or armor, is that you have to learn to strike where you are aligning the edge of the blade to your target. Sounds simple enough, but in reality it's a lot harder than people think. Most beginners will be slightly off which causes the blade to not hit/cut very deep or just slide off material. That's why when armor like chainmail, plate armor, or even just fur armor that the Mongols would use came into play which made it even harder or sometimes next to impossible for even perfectly aligned swords to cut through, bladed weapons fell out of favor for blunt force weapons like warhmammers or maces, which again, shares similarities in this discussion with hammer fists. You can easily mess up trying to hit a perfect knife/ridge hand to someone's weak point, especially a moving target in a close range scuffle. It's very hard to mess up a hammer fist or regular punch to someone's face.
This topic is something like fancy strikes vs practical strikes
Inverted backfist is one of the strongest strikes I've been able to test.
Ridgehands are especially good if you strike with the forearm, and as a setup to the clinch.
Spearhand is usually only useful if you condition your fingers.
06:02 - That thing that lept from from the sky was like 20 feet tall at least!!
20k already!
Good stuff in here. I like the hammerfist instead of backfist suggestion; arm is stronger that way, no risk to back of hand, and protects head a bit better. My spin backfist is replaced with hammerfist as of now!
Also pleased that your take on spinning techniques in the street echoes what I've always said: Don't set out to do it, but it's handy if you're already turned.
I thought cow tipping was real. Wtf
It is real, dammit. I personally will tip them as much as 15%, but only for excellent service.
@@DocTarnation 😂😂
To tip a cow you have to reach between the hind legs grab the tail pull it back through the legs really fuckin hard while pushing against the body really fuckin hard. Not bullshit it works as long as they are under a 1000 lbs . Small farm work for the win. It also keeps them from getting back up as long as you don't let go of the tail and keep it pulled up and away from the body between the legs. Body mechanics for the win.
Cows don’t sleep standing up. Secondly cows are very sturdy animals. They weigh 1000-1400 depending on breed and age. Its Not easy at all to move them much less tip them.
You are sorta talking about “casting” the cow. That helps to use ropes. That’s not tipping.
So I know this technique where that chop come in handy.
If someone points the tip of their knife at you ( which alot of inexperienced people think is good but it's actually bad because people can slap that knife away if you put it directly in front of them ) where you slap the knife with your dominant hand to the non dominant side then try to grab the hand holding the knife with your non dominant hand ( if you can't grab it that's alright you just need to back off after the chop ) while your dominant hand turns and chop to the front of the neck. That creates window to escape. And possibly window to attack. But other than that idk what chance are there to use this in a fist fight.
( Chop is preferred because it's harder to reach the neck with the fist when the chin is down and there's 60% chance that you'll miss a finger poke so chop is the only best choice.
"if your pic is anime you cant fight" tell that to israel odesanya, joking tho fully agree with ur video and what ur saying
Great video. Love me some hammer fists, tricky to train though without really hurting your partner - but if you land one they're good. I like to throw a jab to distract and set up the hammer. For palm strike training I have used helmet/ head protectors, to get used to hitting a moving target with them, but you still can't hit too hard, because there's quite a jolt. I train palms on a body opponent bag ( because it has a face) one small problem with palm strikes is that you lose at least an inch or two of reach - so slightly harder to gauge distance if you're used to punching- also my fists tend to close, punching feels a lot more natural, so under fight conditions much more likely to throw a punch ( or run away). Would probably revert to palms or hammer fists if I broke my hand during a fight ( like Keith Hackney vs Emmanuel Yarborough, UFC 2). Anyway, enough about me, enjoyed the video - going to look and see if you've got any clips on head-butting. Cheers.
Chops don’t work for you because your not doing it correctly 🙄
“Punch you in the face stab ya brain Wicha nose bone”
lmao
I do open hand sparing. I made pads for the palm for that porous (yes they do look silly). We do everything the way you would in normal sparing but if you tend to go for the head you aim at the higher chest area and the shoulder. First a couple of light rounds and at the end we go full force (if you have any gas left). Its good fun...
The karate chop to the neck definitely works!🤣 I've never done it, but I have seen someone knocked out cold by it. Your entire body works well, as you have always said, you just have to make sure that your comfortable using your body that way before you need to.
The adaptation you talk about with spinning applies to knife hand strikes. The person can always dodge, and when they do, you adapt. An open hand can grab/grapple, etc..
I once threw a 720° double tornado kick in a street fight that popped the aggressors' eyes out of their eye sockets and made them simultaneously vomit and shit themselves. SpInNiNg KiCks WoRk On ThE StReEt MiKe?! 🤣
Great video as always!
Here’s what I’d add:
Straight palm strikes are different than slaps.- And not exactly in the same way that crosses differ from hooks. I wouldn’t really put them in the same category.
Slaps with the meaty part of the hand can function like hooks, especially at reach range, and with little to no damage to the hand.
From my experience, straight palm strikes aren’t really effective once the fight is “on”. I’ve been refereeing MMA since the 90’s at every level of the game. In my experience, I can’t recall one scenario where a straight palm strike affected the trajectory of a fight.
HOWEVER, that’s not to say that they aren’t useful. I find them incredibly useful and effective when used as a preemptive strike against a static target that is standing flat footed and exhibiting threatening pre-assault cues. (Not in a sport)
If this is thrown hard in a driving manner to the point of the chin, it works great. (I also think this has a lot to do with the fact that the threat isn’t wearing a mouthpiece.)
After this first strike, continue with more conventional punch, kick, elbow, knee, repeat.
Hammers vs backfists- agreed. Hammers are great, backfists are more limited, with potential damage to the back of the hand. The main difference I see is that the backfist, thrown downward across the brow line can easily cause nasty cuts. (See a “chopper” punch in old bare knuckle boxing)
I do, however, find that hammers work best in scenarios where the target is against a barrier, or initiating some kind of clinch or takedown. I rarely see them working in a mix happening in free space. They work very well against the back of the head/brain stem and present interesting angles.
Spinny things-
I agree that spinny things are necessary for self defense. Elbows and hammers to be exact. I present them as options when the threat is on you at an oblique angle, and you have to aggressively defend from there. This concept is also useful if you have to engage a second threat that approaches from the back or side oblique.
Sorry to be long winded! Keep up the good work, man, and be safe!!!
Myron Gaudet excellent explanation! I'd like to add that the proper intention of a backfist is to strike with the knuckles angled towards the target area, hitting it with the knuckles not with the upper hand bones which are vulnerable and could easily break on hard edges (jaw especially) or some block. I think the confusion comes from gloved fight sports, where the hand bones are protected and the proper wrist angle is obstructed by the glove. so it becomes more of a padded 'smack' with a large surface area and very little power unless it's done spinning.
a proper barehanded backhand with the knuckles to the temple, neck, ribs, eye, basically all precision targets, can do a lot of damage.
Agree mostly on the hammerfist being a better option, but there are cases where a backfist is a good option, such as bringing it down on the nose, which is really difficult to do with a hammerfist due to the different angle. It's also a good option following a parry of something like a jab, which is another situation where the angle of the hammerfist works, but not quite as well.
The ridgehand works best if it's aimed for the throat, in my opinion, still tough to land, but it's not really the sort of move you just throw out, if you use it as a follow up to another strike that actually lands it's a lot easier to pull off. The same goes with the knifehand, hitting the carotid can be pretty effective, and that surface isn't as likely to get damaged as a ridgehand, it also works best of you cut down on the angle you were using and set it up by landing something like a jab. Even if the person dodges it, the move doesn't really leave you overextended, and you're still delivering a lot of force. You can also use it to set up a clinch.
Spearfists work pretty much exclusively when striking the throat, that's what it's made for, anyone who tells you that you can impale somebody with it is lying to you, or has watched one too many anime. The best way I've found is to do a palm strike, leave it extended to distract the person, then follow with the spearfist to the throat. All of these are situational moves, but are still useful to know in case the situation comes up.
Spinning moves (especially the big ones) are a big risk, but they always have their uses. A spinning back kick in particular can be a good option for stopping an opponent who's rushing in, the spinning wheel kick can be useful for countering an opponent who does one of those really awful kicks where it's obvious that they don't actually know how to kick. These moves are better for competition though, as there are far fewer risks that come from using these techniques. Either way, if you're not 100% confident you can land it, don't try it.
Ridge hands are to be incorporated with grappling moves to target the nose or adams apple, backfist are for speed surprise attacks not necessarily power like a hammer fist - judo use to focus on techniques with ridge hands but got away from it over the years . Open hand chops should be used for close quarter strikes to the front of the throat not sides, the nose and side of the jaws - it should be applied with speed and angles. Like anything you have to train to use certain moves to pull it off
Mike, ive gotta give you credit man your stance switch without hopping is super clean. That's stressed big time in traditional karate.
fkn fell of the couch...' how do you sop hopping?'..."just dont" hahahahaha jeeez you are so real. would love to train with you. great energy and authentic knowhow aka grips
Regarding palm strikes : we train with mouthguards at roughly 50%, just like a bare-knuckle boxer would do in thailand, or we use fat helmets (foamy, with a flexible but strong plastic cover (similar to those used in Kudo), to hit full-contact.
(oh, and sometimes, we use gloves, so that at least students know what it feels like)
Regarding spining relatively risk-free movements (hammer fists, or elbows) : they can be useful, when you're mostly trying to survive your way out of a melee (multiple opponents). They can help hitting somebody and protecting yourself at the same time while you're escaping a shitty situation
Could you explain why you don't believe that spinning back kicks are good for self defense? It's a powerful strike with more range than a standard side kick. I feel as though it's useful for keeping the attacker at a distance and causing damage, particularly if you aim for the body. If they get too close, you can clinch or shoot a single-leg.
Becoming Better JCVD knocked out dozens of people with that. just saying.
My History teacher told me that the palm strike can knock someone's nose back into their brain, but I obviously couldn't tell her she didn't know what she was talking about
What a dummy.
@@hard2hurt I know
I like knife hands and ridge hands under very specific circumstances. I have one thing with the ridge hand I like for sparring. With the knife hand, I strike with anywhere from just in front of my elbow to about just shy of the edge of my hand. I love the hammer fist. Probably my go to strike for a beginner if I don't have a lot of time
What everyone forgets/misses about 'spinning' attacks is the quick 360 view glimpse you get of your surroundings while throwing the strike....this would allow one to see if there is a second attacker trying to sneak in at them while they are busy working with the first person. Anyone that thinks that a street fight is going to stay one on one, has not been in a real street fight before.
I enjoy that you don't cut the random shit that happens. Makes you more real.
The only use I found for a ridge hand, is I would throw (in a left front stance) a right ridge hand way too close and when they blocked it, it would whip around and hit them in the back of the neck just below the skull. A blow like that will turn their consciousness off for about a half second and they'll end up leaning forward a few inches. That's where the left uppercut comes into play. When you throw the ridge hand, make sure to really ulnar deviate your wrist so the bones of your hand and fingers don't hit the skull. P.s. the block might hurt your bicep but my family has some weird genetics when it comes to pain and bruising so it wasn't really a problem for me.
I appreciate your 'that's stupid' vibe in these older videos, but I also equally appreciate your more recent vibe.
Cool! Couldn't agree more with you on most of these. With two exceptions: palm strikes/hammerfists to the body, and the spinning back kick. I actually think the former two are less useful in self defence than the latter. I really can't see a hammerfist doing significant damage to the body unless you're quite a bit bigger than your opponent. A palm strike even much less so - unless you call shoving someone off a ledge a palm strike, I guess. There are reasons for not using your bare knuckles against a hard skull, but much less so against a reasonably soft torso, so fists are pretty much always going to be the much better option there. As for the spinning back kick: while I agree on not doing overly fancy high kicks during self defence, a spinning back/side kick to the liver is really a relatively simple technique that works in a variety of distances, isn't hindered by street clothes (wearing shoes even makes it more effective) and probably won't throw you off balance - provided you have practiced it enough. It wouldn't be among my first techniques of choice, but it's certainly nice to have in ones arsenal, especially in circumstances where you already find yourself turned in relation to your opponent for whatever reason.
I agree with most of what you said. I personally had a lot of success with the ridge hand. Of course I taught a soft art with a lot of circular motion. I found that by shortening that motion, when someone would block my punch, I could continue on and strike the side of the neck. I frustrated a lot of people whom i trained with because they would try to emulate my movements, however, I was able to block it. They would try to block it, and their mistake was dropping the hand after blocking, but I would simply still be in position to throw the strike again.
As with every technique, it takes years of practice to become proficient with it. One my other favorites was the palm strike. I found that many do not realize that they can increase the force of the strike by thrusting the palm itself once you strike your target. Alas, Im old and disabled now, but I miss the years that I spent in the artsl Had many great times.
Yeah that's the problem... every technique doesnt take years to become proficient in. If a technique takes years to become proficient in, its because that technique sucks.
While I agree with the spear hand and wrist blocks sucking, anyone who isn't willing to put in years of practice can not really say they are 'proficient' with that technique. Period. If one is not willing to put in the time and dedication to train and truly be able to use a certain technique under any circumstance, they are kidding themselves when they say they are proficient with it.
Thats the problem with 'self defense' instructors. They teach a few decent techniques and expect that after a few weeks, a person can walk away, forget it and expect to be able to use those techniques effectively in a stressful situation years later.
You are kidding yourself and not doing any of your students a service when you try to tell them that they are proficient with a strike or technique they haven't worked until its second nature. Just like BJJ, its only a partial art because it only deals with grappling. But to each his own. Im long retired from the arts so I will simply say have fun. I didn't realize you were such an arrogant prick or I wouldn't have commented. I simply wanted to share a few things, but since you think you are such a badass, have fun with it.
Uechi teacher: ""NO OPEN HANDED TECHNIC! TOO DANGEROUS!"
I have found spinning side kick useful personally.
It works alongside (I fight Orthodoxstance... right side back cause I’m right handed/footed) other side kicks.
Front side kick is quicker to do, but lacks in range and power.
With a deep cross step from behind front side kick has the most range and power (but more if I’m in south paw and kicking with the right leg.)
Spinning back side kick has medium range and power and is faster than a front side kick with a wide cross step.
If I put this move in a game like street fighter it would function as a special attack that you shouldn’t spam and need to set up, like Tatsumaki.
Light version is a front side kick without much or any back step. So it’s quicker and good for punishing whiffed attacks. Also works well with a Jab Cross combo.
Spinning back side kick would be medium. It also works better if you have a decent spinning hammer fist since you can use a similar motion to start each attack making it difficult to read if you’re doing side kick or hammer fist till it’s too late. So if they stepped or dodged back expecting a hammer fist they can get kicked. If they stepped sideways to avoid the kick they can get hammer fisted.
Also works for feints designed to make and opponent step backwards so you can side kick into them.
Light combos into medium.
You can also just stance change after light if they try stepping back then so a long back step and kick with your dominant leg (most likely) as they’re stepping in the direction you’re kicking them... so helps knock someone backwards.
But I mean.... while it’s useful. It’s not exactly something I would recommend doing all the time. Just a hard hitting attack that you can land more if you add in the spinning variant.
Hey just putting this out there. Me and friends I have been not only used open hand sparring (palm strike, spear hand, chops etc.) Even learn to use palm strikes to other parts of body, but I used my open hand style techniques during a REAL self defense situation.