When to descend? Real Airbus Pilot Explains! Microsoft Flight Simulator Tutorial
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- Опубліковано 28 вер 2024
- A lot of people have asked how to work out when you should start your descent. Today we take a look in both Microsoft Flight Simulator and X Plane 11!
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I am a real world Airbus pilot with thousands of hours flying the real aircraft and thought it would be fun to have a look at the new detailed simulation of the longest baby 'bus by Toliss as well as the new MSFS a320 NEO. Hopefully you find this useful and it brings another perspective to your simulation. Any thoughts or comments are welcome!
This video is intended for home entertainment only and does not reflect or represent any real world aircraft or airline procedures. It is for home flight simulator enthusiasts only and has no real world application. All views expressed are my own.
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Intro Music by Fly24: • Distance Too Far. - Ігри
I swear you are reading my mind, this is the second time you have uploaded exactly what I wanted, love your videos, keep up the good work !
same thing happened to me. are you reading my mind because i just asked the same thing
Perfect! Luck and timing, hopefully I can keep the uploads working for you!
Same here
Master class again on "how to" A320!!! This is my go to channel, thank you for the clarity and simplicity to explain cryptic concepts to us Sir!!
For descent rate, you could also use (Speed x 5).
For instance, the method of (400 kts / 2 x 10) is the same answer as 400 x 5.
Great vid!
Thanks, glad you liked it! My brain works more easily when doing the x10/2 method but absolutely x5 works just as well!
Excellent video. I fly on a citation and usually I do ground speed X 5 which is also equal to ground speed divided by 2 X 10. Then I divide altitude to lose by descent rate to get time. And then multiply miles per minute by the time to descend to get my track miles. A bit more complicated and in busy situations I just use the 3 miles per 1,000 foot rule. Our FMS is very old so we use a Garmin 790 to give us a rough descent profile.
The ATC in MFS2020 seems bugged when it comes to decending. Thanks for another video. This is the best channel when it comes to Airbus A320.
Default ATC in MSFS would freak out, if pilot would decent without their permission. Is it a case in real life too?
You would likely lose you license if you made a habit out of it.
You can request ATC for Alt change, but it only goes up to 10,000 then you can keep reducing it.
This channel is a hidden gem I swear
Thanks these are the the most amazing tutorials I’ve ever seen and they’ve really helped me get used to an Airbus coming from the 737 on X-Plane
Mate great advice for a new player to MSFS2020, after watching this video, I did hands down the best approach and landing I have ever done on my flight from Bangkok to Phnom Penh in the A320N. Thanks ...
Glad it helped Tony, thanks for watching!
These are a little long winded, but I am becoming a better A320 pilot. They now call me Mr. Bumpy Landing! And thanks for recommending the FlybyWire MOD. It is SOOOO GOOOD! The sound effects are worth it alone.
saw your video, installed the flybywire mod...it's much louder in the cockpit now than before. Guess that's how it is in a real airbus, but I will keep it. Very good tutorial video....and I'll get used to increased cockpit noise. thank you
This is really useful. Finally I can know how to descend properly. Thank you!
Great to hear!
Thank you for your videos, from a ship Captain who loves Flight Simulation.
Thank you for watching and your comment Paulo! I'm a big fan of ships and sailing too, if only there was a good simulator out there!
@@320SimPilot My compliments. Look forward to see your video about the go around and its procedures.
Wouldn’t it be easier to descend with -3.0 FPA? That way you would be really descending with a 3 degree slope and your rough calculations would be more accurate. Also if you have a tailwind your ground speed will increase and hence your rate that you need to descend at if you were using FPA mode, so no need to worry about the wind too much. Great video as always😀
Download latest dev version. Distance countdown works. Thank for another great video
Thanks for the tip! And thanks for watching.
Thanks for sharing your knowledge.. your explanation is really easy to understand
Incredible tuition. Thank you. Us armchair pilots are eternally grateful.
Glad you enjoyed it Mikey!
Thank you so much to share Your professionnal knowledge with us, may I suggest you release a video explaining how to make the right choice of flight level? I mean not according to the circular rule , but according to the distance to cover. One more time, thank you Patrick
How about ATC instructions? Just ignore them? In MSFS they don’t seem very accurate...
I do because it makes you descent at 30 degrees...
Great video. Now do one on the final approach. I never know when to deploy flaps.
My first reaction would be you'd want to slow down to give yourself more time to descend (with liberal air braking), not increase speed. Initial (uneducated) thought would be going faster would make you cover more ground quicker and you'd overshoot where you want to be. But seeing this it would actually change your descent angle... and here I was forcing with V/S mode and air brakes and manual speed.
It took me some time to get used to as well! Thanks for watching.
Genuinely love these videos, keep it up!!
Thanks Atlas! Will do!
Well this explains for flybywire. What about other aircrafts? How to calculate for example cessna g1000?
excellent. you can notice you are a real pilot
Great video. Are the feet and nautical miles different?
YAY NEW VIDEO!
Same thing really but I find the 3degree V/S calculation easier with GS x 5 😀
Thanks for the video @320 Sim Pilot. Is another way to do this to select vertical speed until the magenta hockey stick appears where you want it? Obviously not in MSFS yet but is that an option in the ToLiss? I tend to use this when I fly the Aerosoft Extended version in FSX when encountering late descent clearances from ATC (vatsim), or for a more gentler profile. Please keep the Videos coming. Always look forward to how the professionals do it, and the comparisons to the real thing is so useful - when many of us Simmers are desperate for a study-level Airbus. FBW still doing a great job.
I always descend like this:
At first I check the altitude to lose..
Most times I'm not aiming for the RWY but for the certain approach alt, beginning for example at 3000 ft.
So if I'm at FL330, I got to lose 30000 ft.
I then divide the altitude (FL spelling) to lose through 3, in this example it's 100.. (300/3)
For every 10 kts tail/head wind I add/substract 1 NM.
That's how I get the distance in tack miles I need to the point at which we want to be at 3000 ft. (T/D)
Then I look at GS. When I'm flying 400kts GS, I need 15 min for 100 NM.
Then I usually take the rule of three.
In this case I will be exactly 100 NM away, so no need for that here.
Now I have 15 min to descend 30000ft, which means I need the V/S of 2000 ft/min.
So basically I got the same result as you!
But let's say, we travel at 500 kts GS,
and we want to be at 8000ft from FL240:
We want to lose 16000 ft, devided though 3:
About 53 track miles
With a GS of 500 we would need 12 min for 100 NM, so we would need about 6 min for 53 NM.
16000 ft / 6 min is about 2700 ft/min (2666).
This also works without dividing the FL through 3, for steeper or more gentle angles when you already have a certain distance!
(I have to lose 10000 ft in 20 NM with a GS of 300 -> V/S of 2500 ft/min)
Every 10 NM I do the quick maths and correct. Works fine for me and with every airplane.. :D
Will try your/the official way now..
Thank you very much for this video!!
@MichaelKingsfordGray Oops, it's "lose", I've mistyped haha :D
Hi Oscar, it sounds like you already have a method that works for you! In my video I only show a technique to help people, it's not official and is not better or worse than any other method as long as they produce good results! Thanks for watching.
@@320SimPilot Yeah and I like your method as well! This is no criticism at all! :D
I really appreciate your videos a lot!
Keep it up! :)
@@oscarlamprecht1978 Those with better mental arithmetic skills can attempt more complicated methods, but might then be more liable to make a mistake. "Keep it simple"!
@@salokin1 Just wanted to share a way that works with other planes and descents :)
I like this way because it is pretty accurate and works even if I got to loose more/less alt than I would with a 3° angle :D
But as 320 Sim Pilot says:
No way is better or worse than any other method, as long es they produce accurate results :)
And I always calculate twice :D
Cheers man!
Thank you for another superb video, I have learnt so much from your tutorials, please keep them coming. can I ask, do you use head tracking.
Very helpful guide !
320 Sim, Sir, could you please help me understand the data on the flight plan page ?...I get the FL### for flight level, but what of the other numbers ? I know on approach the names and descending altitudes are listed........ many thanks
Very good video, but when I want to descend I try click the same as you, but it didn’t work, I try to hold, click it’s don’t work, any help please!
Too give room for slowing down is it always +10?
But doesn't atc tell you when to descend? My waypoints in the flight computer tell me what altitude I should be at but atc tells me otherwise. Also STAR charts display altitudes. How do I decide when to descend if there are so many different scources?
So when do you press the approach button?
Can you explain why a heavy aircraft takes more time to descend compared to a lighter one?
I assume it's to do with speed management and not going outside the narrow envelope.
More energy to "dump" ??
Bro the push and pull of the knob, where can I find the setting? I got msfs just yesterday but I cannot push and pull the airplane knobs. Please help
Would you recommend the toliss a319 or a321?
A321 :)
@@smoothflying thx
they are essentially the same- just the a319 is shorter and the a321 is quite a bit longer
Yes. 😊
Can we use speed brake even when at Green Dot speed while descending? I see the VLS jumps at that moment
Great question! On the real aircraft VLS will increase too. You can use speedbrake but must be careful not to let VLS go above your speed, so just use less speedbrake or increase your speed if possible! Thanks for watching.
Awesome. Thanks for sharing :)
when you say "miles", do you mean NM or regular miles?
Who else has a problem with the a320 mod on startup? The PFD doesn't show but if I start the aircraft at the runway it shows fine. Thanks!
From experience do you tend to guess what to expect from ATC for directs? And when it’s best to ask?
Strange. Why doesn't your NX wobble like mine? Have you run into that problem and fixed it? Thx
Never mind. Mine stopped doing it today!
I have been very lucky and not had this bug happen much to me! Thanks for watching.
Great video 320
Thank you!
320 Sim Pilot your videos are so easy to sit down watch and follow thanks again legend
Loved it thanks pro
hey great vid again! just a question: when starting the initial descent do you wait for ATC instructions or you tell them on your plans?
You can request descent but often ATC will give you permission to descend with a STAR clearance. For example, ATC: “Qantas 859, When Ready Descend Flight Level 250”.
If we want to make the flight as realistic as possible, should we follow or ignore the default ATC?
We should.
Why do you need to divide GS by 2 and then times by 10 to find a roughly 3degrees glidepath, when you just can times by GSx5?!or its just a rule?
This is what i've taken so far, you spend more time managing the FMCU than actually flying this airplane..
Any plan on RNAV landing tutorial?
I always seem to get this wrong, either floating down the runway (Go around) or to fast and hard
Probably too high angle of attack, then you add power to not slam into ground and you end up having a floater.
Or you are just approaching without managing the speed(you literally have an auto throttle, which holds your approach speed, so I do not understand how) and you are not flaring before touching down.
That’s how I see it, I’m a student pilot the biggest thing I flew so far is a twin engine DA 42 Twin Star, and I have those moments too, you just need to manage the speed, and the AoA.
@@m_swizzy22 thanks for the tip, I'll give that a try.
So, about that tail/head wind. Is there a specific formula or calculation for it? For example if I am at FL 290 and have a heavy tail wind of lets say 98 should I descend sooner for more time to slow down and if so, when? 29X3=97+10+ 107. Should it be more like 117 instead to allow more time to slow down?
Hi,,
I have a question. I mean once we have estimated when we should descend based on 3:1 rule, adding wind component distance as well, then how do we deal with the fact that our descent rate will no more be the same as we get lower and closer to FAF for instance. I mean let's say we initiated initial selected descent at 2300 ft/min ( GS 460knots), how can we srill assume we'll descend at this rate when we 're lower and that GS will probably be around 350 knots ( 1750 feet/min'). Can the plane still descend at the initial rate we did set in the mcdu?Or does that rule alteady account for the fact that we'll have a lower GS anyway?
Does the altitude x 3 equation work properly on smaller planes too?
Have never played X-PLANE but it does look somewhat better than MSFS?
In your opinion and experience, which is better for the A320 realism... MSFS20 or XP11?
If I was him, I would pick XP11.
Sir, I have a doubt. I am not sure if you comment here. But will the ATC give the desired altitude to descend?
Hello Cpt! Thnks againg for sharing your kwnolege and making our sim as real as it gets! At 3:30 you show PERF page with 287 knots por DESCEND profile. I aways get 331 knots for FF A320 and man she dives fast. I suppose that 331 is NOT a reasonable value right? If so, what would be a reasonable range? Does this value change depending on something? Btw, I set 55 for cost index.
Hi Hugo! 331 is possible but I would prefer a slower speed in case turbulence or wind changes cause a small overspeed. Typically we descend in the 270/300kt range, try using a lower cost index, that should help! Thanks for watching!
So are pilots allowed to descend at their own discretion and speed? Or only in calm areas?
Thank you for this awsome video. A question: what do pilots do, if they can‘t descent fast enough with all tricks. Are they flying holdings to get extra miles?
Hi, thanks for watching! Great question, yes either hold or ask ATC for some extra track miles, then they can give you headings around to help!
In real live, can the pilot decide on his own when to start a decent, or does he need to request it from ATC?
For a IFR Flight you need to get the explicit permission to start the descent. You are normally on the center frequency at the cruising altitude. Later you will change to the approach frequency of the arrival airport and even later to the tower frequence. But I´m not a real pilot. Not 100% about this.
@@henrih3080 You are right ! But that doesnt answer Jorg's question :)
@Jörg Ahrens : It's up to the pilot to decide when to ask the ATC to descend. But sometimes the ATC asks you before you do, depending on the traffic he has to manage.
What would be a typical cruise altitude for a short flight like Liverpool to Dublin?
From experience I can tell you about 25000 ft with a 737 or A320
@@ROTAX129 Thanks
In real life atc will descend you. Are you playibg without atc?
I think that the altitude 33000 feet divided by 3 to find minimum descent distance - 330 ÷ 3 = 110NM
110NM Is the min descent
Not multiply
33×3 = 99NM❌❌❌
Can i get the flybywire version on Xbox?
Great ... thanks, i lurn a lot !!
You're welcome!
how can i know what speed i need to choose on fcu during descent .?
I'm having autopilot problems, is anyone else, not working, even with out the airbus mod
Another very informative video, thank you. In the real world is it usual to request descent or does ATC issue an instruction?
Sometimes you have to ask, sometimes they make you descend early for traffic reasons, so it really depends! Thanks for watching!
Can you try fslabs a320/321 on P3D?
I always descend at 45 nm and it always works
How did you manage to get the WPTS on the FPL page to be green? Mine are blue.
Why do we time the height to the runway with 3?
Multiply your current altitude, by the ideal glide-slope degree. Most commonly 3deg. That is where the 3 is coming from.
AAre you using the stable version or the beta version? because my rate of descent with open desent is 4000+ ft/pm.. more like crashing then gliding
From a cruise altitude 4000fpm is possible at first but it should then reduce to something more normal! I am using the unstable version at the moment although I think it is out of date already.
@@320SimPilot if you download the flybywire downloader, it will tell you if your version is up to date whenever you open it.
@@320SimPilot They seem to be pushing out a new version almost daily.
When I descend, my passengers feel 0G. 🤣
🤯
I came here to pilot, ended up doing math.
Goes with the territory?
Huh?
4:25 Then why didn't you redo it and remake the video so it's accurate? Really doesn't help.
How in world is VNAV not implemented? What a waste.
Who else hits 'like' on 320's videos before they've even seen them? Just gets it out of the way, you know it's going to happen.
Yes me! This guy is awesome. Every video again. Perfect voice, accent and content. Just awesome. He deserves so much more subscribers then he has. Hopes he keeps on truckin' video's on to UA-cam!
What do we want? Descend!
When do we want it? Now!
(10 ft above the runway) I'll just float instead.. :D
It was definitely worth 25 minutes of my time learning when to descent as a 737 pilot. Thank you very much for this video! ❤
oh boy!!!, I was just looking for this kind of videos!!! this one fell from heaven!!!. thanks!!! cheers!
Great video again. I hope the FlyByWire Team will also make it possible to fly holding patterns. I can add a holding in the MCDU but it does not appear on the ND yet. It would be another way to reduce altitude.
are you reading my mind? Yesterday I was looking for a Top of descend video and was wondering, when is 320sim pilot is going to release a video about it?.... thank you for this video, you are definitely making my flight sim learning easy!
Really glad the videos help you Angel! Thanks for watching.
Thanks a lot for all your efforts towards these educational videos! Enterntaining as well. Newbie question: Should we explicitly initiate the descent or a320 will initiate descent automatically at the T/D point? Should the target altitude be the first altituide constraint or DH, so that a320 will automatically hold the constraints? If its the first altitude constraint that we initiate to, what should be the next altitude we should select? (second constraint or DH?). Thanks in advance.
Hi, thanks for the kind words! You will need to initiate descent yourself. Select the target altitude you want to go to and then either pull or push the altitude knob to start the descent. There is no need to set the DH. Please see this video: ua-cam.com/video/iDOTAJVdU_A/v-deo.html
@@320SimPilot Thanks! You are awesome. Giving back to community like this is highly appreciated!
That's cool but why don't just devide GS on 5 to calculate the 3-degree vertical speed instead of deviding it on 2 and then multiplying it on 10? What is the reason?
Great question, for me it is easier to divide by two and add a zero but your method would work absolutely fine too!
I love your videos! Can I descend without the instructions from ATC? I had experience that ATC asked me to descend but the time was not sufficient for me to do the approach correctly. Thanks!
Nah u don’t need to listen to act always
@@SasukeUchiha-ks3rz really? But isn't it true that you need clearance in real life?
I just want to ask capt, when you applied flaps. what was the level of Knots & Altitude?
Will it level off automatically at each altitude restriction on the way down
Hello A320 sim Pilot why didnt you use VS speed on FCU to change the ROD instead you have increased speed ?
Great question! If we use OP DES and increase the speed, the aeroplane will descend faster to try and reach that speed, but when it reaches it it will pitch up and maintain the speed. If we set a high V/S to descend, the speed will accelerate and the aeroplane could overspeed as it will target the V/S. I hope this makes sense!
@@320SimPilot thanks for the reply, I am planning to start my A320 TR soon. Your videos are really helpful
Mixing 2 Sims does not appear appropriate for a "tutorial". It would be different if it was in writing .
HI! I believe A320 from Aerosoft (fro FSX , P3D) got everything on display as in real aeroplane ! have you tried ?
Learned so much from this video. All the questions I e had was answered in this one video
Xplane 11 Toliss user here. Does the calculated TD point take into account programmed descent winds? If not, then why do they need to be entered. If so, then we don’t need to make correction for wind in TD point calculation, we can rely on the TD point calculation and just verify/monitor what the autopilot is doing in descent, in terms of the calculations described. Thanks.
Yes in the ToLiss it does, as long as they were input by either the user or the ACARS. Typically in this case the T/D is pretty accurate and you can just monitor, but don't get caught out by reduced track miles (cutting the corner) or likewise an arrival all coded at 3000ft when actually you will be able to fly it higher. Thanks for watching!
“It is not intended for real world use”
Great, so this doesn’t help qualify me for flying a real plane. Guess I’ll stick to the sim. 😀
Ooh ooh will that 3° math work on a rnav approach? Definitely going to try it!!