Collaboration!.....Again!...No, but in all seriousness massive props to my friend GreyJedi91 for editing this matchup. If you haven't yet done so I highly recommend going over and giving him some love. Hope you enjoy!
Evan how does the matchup Tenel Ka Djo Vs Adi Galia sound? random yes but both are very underrated characters I just thought about it and thought you might be interested
Thanks to Evan for his patience on this one. Editing began back in late December, but I had a lot of upsets get in the way of completing it. Hope it was worth the wait.
The sith order got weekend after tenebrous because plagueis and sidious never earned there Darth title properly by taking it from there master fairly.what was one of the main reasons for rule of two was made for then they keep stronger.not like plagueis and sidious had to cheap attack but they were suppose to challenge and surpass there master
@@jonmurray4652 I don’t think that fairness is what the rule of two emphasizes. They outsmarted their master to defeat them, so they are stronger. Brains over bronze.
@@KumaoftheForest Sidious became so powerful he didn't need brains anymore. He just comes back with the unnatural power of bad writing. Remember: He is aLL tHE sItH!!1
@@leiferikson850 Yeah but that also brings up the idea that Sidious may actually be Tenebrous, Plaguies, etc. in spirit. We might have to consider essence transfer here. Or you can stick to Legends, where Sidious just uses clone bodies and is still the strongest thing in existence lol. Pick your poison.
Evan nova: the two different versions are completely incompadable. TCW Grievous sees gungans: a'ight Imma head out OG Grievous after slauthering on Hypori: I'm about to comit a mass murder
@Cody Brock the spinning torso was some cool shit! *let it rip.* i alway figure the outer shell of the torsso wher the arms connected was the only thin spinning anyway while the inner container of his vitals kept in place. Like one of those cement mixers but in reverse.
As another powerful sith once said: "Don’t be too proud of this technological terror you’ve constructed. [It] is insignificant next to the power of the Force."
Loved this analysis. You both did a marvelous job. I'm a fan of Darth Zannah, Nomi Sunrider, Bastila Shan, Satele Shan, Mara Jade, Lumiya, and Darth Traya. Thus, I enjoy analyses such as these. :)
Calling it now--Grievous' mind is a prime target for Zannah's sorcery, and she has the defense necessary to hold out and/or smack him around with TK before dealing a decisive blow. It's possible that Grievous can overwhelm her if she makes a tactical blunder, but not very likely.
I actually agree with this. Interestingly enough, later on, after she defeated Bane, she bacame a master of this technique along with her myriad of other skills. That's what made her so special I think. She was one of my favorite Sith Lords.
@@Redoren966 I disagree, but ok. I'm speaking strictly on her strongest abilities overcoming whatever speed advantages Grievous has; not to mention she is the high level apprentice of Darth Bane who'd likely wipe out Grievous on his own. He didn't train a scrub now. Remember, she beat Bane, and regardless of his condition, she had advanced quite far to beat him singlehandedly. Grevious is probably faster than most Jedi as well anyway, but that doesn't make him unstoppable by any means. That alone is an assumption, and perhaps opinion, that his speed just simply overcomes all. Your reasoning goes both ways my friend.
@@DarthBalsamic 1. Darth Bane has no strength,speed or skill feat that Grievous hasn't surpassed how is he wining? 2. It is when four sabers stab Zannah before her spells can save her 3. Here is the thing Obi-wan is basically Zannah but better at everything but knowledge of the dark side was pushed to his limits by Grievous how is Zannah fending off Grievous if he couldn't?
6:42, I mean, it’s as simple as this: in terms of a purely physical confrontation, Grievous obviously wins (though not easily). Allowing Zannah her Force powers and especially her Sith sorcery however, drastically turns the tide to majorly favor her winning... only potentially losing if the supposed starting distance for this hypothetical match-up has Grievous basically right on top of her from the get-go. 9:42, PRETTY sure the instance you’re referring to was back in RoT, 10 years before Zannah’s apparent prime in DoE, which I’m ASSUMING is the iteration being pitted against Grievous here (though honestly, RoT Zannah would be a more fair opponent for Grievous). Also, while yes, Bane simply is more impressive in terms of durability/pain-tolerance/whatever, Zannah’s few impressive feats in the same category are made all the more impressive when you consider they were performed AGAINST Bane: her being kicked in the ribs by an orbalisk-encrusted Bane; and not only continue defending against an offensive onslaught from Bane in DoE, but performing a triple back-handspring, all after suffering a broken rib from Bane mere moments prior. Like, on their own, on surface-level those feats aren’t that crazy... until you factor in this is Bane, who, while weakened, was able to rip a durasteel door off its hinges with his bare hands. When we factor THAT into the equation, we can then give Zannah’s few durability feats the due respect they deserve. All that said, of course Grievous gets the edge in the area of physical capabilities. It’s just not by any great measure is all (despite what you both believe and reveal a little bit further on in the video). 16:51, you gonna back that up and actually substantiate that rather bold claim, Evan? No? Ok. Lol. 18:03, actually, via scaling (DoE Zannah~DoE Bane DoE Bane>RoT Bane RoT Bane>BM-amped Raskta Lsu BM-amped Raskta>Grievous. To reiterate, this line of scaling is specifically in regard to speed only.), Zannah COULD be argued to be faster than Grievous, not solely in regard to sprinting speed, but speed in general, even INCLUDING Grievous utilizing his 4-arm fighting style. (Regarding substantiating this line of scaling, specifically BM-amped Lsu being faster than Grievous, I supply it further on down when one of Grievous’ most overhyped speed feats is mentioned.) 21:46, what you said rings true for her against Bane, but not so much against Sarro Xaj. Her fight against Sarro Xaj was 10 years pre-prime, and Sarro was empowered by battle meditation, so... 21:56, BOTH occasions? In her fight against Sarro Xaj (and Johun Othone), while she had a momentary lapse in concentration when she checked how Bane was doing in his separate engagement (something we can arguably assume she would have matured out of doing after 10-years-growth), the text also mentions this: “Before they could engage her, she backpedaled toward one of the corners, stopping several meters from the intersection of the two walls. This allowed her to protect her flanks, but still left enough space for her to duck, dodge, and evade the weapons of her enemies.” That’s clearly a situationally and tactically sound move right there. 🤷♂️ And against Bane, in the Stone Prison was more Bane utilizing his inane cunning more so than Zannah proving to be environmentally unaware. Their final confrontation, when Zannah trips over the freshly dug grave, is indeed perhaps the only REAL example that points to any lack of situational/environmental awareness on Zannah’s part, and even then we still have to factor in that that probably wouldn’t have happened if Bane wasn’t bearing down on her so aggressively, and if she wasn’t simultaneously gathering her power to unleash a devastating spell against Bane. 🤷♂️ 23:06, yes, WITH Xaj being empowered by Worror Dowmat’s battle meditation, Zannah definitely would have lost. WITHOUT though, what makes you think Xaj would have beaten her? 25:07, which source or sources definitively support or outright state Dooku deliberately withheld teaching Grievous everything he knew? 28:52, this feat is so largely overblown. For reference, in our REAL world, last I checked it, the world record for most strikes per second averaged 13.5, and, obviously, that was done with 2 arms, not 4. So ramping up to 20 strikes per second with 4 arms really isn’t all that impressive. 😂 And to even relate it to an in-universe comparison, Raskta Lsu struck Bane faster in their duel: (the following is pulled from EmperorDMB’s respect thread on Raskta Lsu) ““Raska's blue blades flickered too quickly for the eye to see, neutralizing her enemy's initial, wild attack then landing half a dozen lethal blows to his chest and abdomen. But instead of toppling, the big man kept coming, never even breaking stride. He would have plowed straight into Raskta, trampling her under his heavy boots, had she not cartwheeled to the side at the last possible instant.” -Darth Bane: Rule of Two Considering Bane was running at her, the standard lightsaber blade length of a meter, and the average human footspeed of 15 mph (or 6.7056 meters per second), for her to land half a dozen strikes on Bane before he could close what was at most a two meter distance between them (a meter for Raskta's bladelength, and an estimated meter for her arm length), a conservative estimate suggests her striking speed would need to be around twenty strikes per second: (6 strikes)/[(2 meters)/(6.7056 meters per second)] = (6 strikes)/(.298 seconds) = 20.134 strikes per second Now this estimate is conservative for three reasons. First of all, Bane does not run at the average human footspeed, as he is a Dark Lord of the Sith with force based physical augmentation. Secondly, Raskta landed those half dozen strikes before Bane had closed the distance between them, not in the exact amount of time it took Bane to close the distance between them. And third, one meter is a generously long arm length estimation for Raskta Lsu, given that the length of one arm is less than half of a person's wingspan, with a person's wingspan being equal to their height, and Raskta being slightly shorter than the 1.85 meter tall Johun Othone. Thus, this feat demonstrates Raskta's amped striking speed to be well over twenty strikes per second. Even if you don't believe in the relevancy of calculations, Raskta Lsu still landed half a dozen strikes on an extremely physically capable Dark Lord of the Sith in less time than it took him to run two meters, which in and of itself with no calculations, is still insanely impressive.” ^Also worth noting, Raskta, like the world-record-holder IRL, was utilizing not 4, but merely 2 arms. Now, his most overblown feat aside, Grievous absolutely still has kept pace with and challenged the likes of Shaak Ti, Obi-Wan, Dooku, and Mace Windu. So clearly, regardless of the above feat and how ridiculous people make it out to be, his speed is AT THE VERY LEAST enough to seriously challenge Zannah. Grievous does take the edge in martial prowess, but like in the prior category, there’s less of a gap there between the two than you two seem to think. 43:54, meh, an extremely watered-down version of the spell she was PLANNING on unleashing against Bane at the beginning of their fight still almost decommissioned him. I’m of the mind that she could simply casually rip apart Grievous’ mind and be done with it. Conclusion, yeah, it’s as I said at the top: in a purely physical confrontation, Grievous wins, but allow Zannah the Force, and she obliterates Grievous, especially with her spells, against which, Grievous simply has no answer for.
@@KumaoftheForest yes, though given it would almost certainly be more of a physical engagement than Zannah against Grievous, I could see Bane struggling more than Zannah. The way it goes down is either Bane eradicates Grievous kinda outright with The Force, like Zannah also could, or Bane engages Grievous in a physical confrontation. With the latter scenario, Bane will either incorporate Force powers and gain the advantage and most likely win, or he will succumb to the cyborg general. So I see it that Grievous absolutely CAN realistically win against Bane, but I don’t see that being a majority of the time per se. Like, if the two were to fight 10 times, Bane wins around 8/10 times, whereas Zannah wins closer to 9/10 times.
@@NooNE-vu7qj, sure, I guess, but usually these kinds of versus match-ups are with the understanding that they are dropped cold into the fight, so Grievous getting the drop on her is pretty irrelevant, not to mention rather unlikely in-universe.
None of the people Zannah compares to COMPARE to the people like Shaak Ti , Asaj Ventress and early Anakin Skywalker. Grievous being capable of handling these people with lyre speed alone , Grievous gets the edge in physical strength and even speed to some extent. Although I agree Zannah could win
I don’t really consider it likely for Zannah to be able to power through the amount of offensive pressure Grievous would be providing. Even against Bane’s use of Juyo, Zannah had to take a considerable amount of time to draw upon the Force to use a mental attack, more than enough time for her to literally slip up and for Bane to overwhelm her for a time. But Grievous would strike even quicker, leaving Zannah no time to steady herself
Grievous would strike even quicker? Grievous aint even force-sensitive.. He can't protect vs force attacks, Zannah could literally just use her immense control of the force to lift him up and toy around with him. No need for lightsaber combat
PliwoFactor Considering Grievous would instantly go on the attack and constantly keep her under the pressure of 20 randomized strikes per second, not even giving her the time to use her force abilities, yeah I’d say so. Sure she COULD use telekinesis, but as pointed out in the video, this isn’t how she fights. She prefers to fall into a defensive stance and gather up the necessary energy to create a mental attack, but she wouldn’t be able to gather that energy under the overwhelming onslaught that Grievous could and would employ, just as she couldn’t against Bane until she was able to get distance between them
@@Spellshot693 If she can feel that the opponent is not attuned to the force, but can tell he is an exceptional warrior.. just use the force and victory is finished.
First of all Bane is a master of all 7 forms but primarily uses form 5 and form 3. He doesnt use Juyo. Zannah fought evenly with Bane in Dynasty of evil until a shallow grave broke her defence. Zannahs force abilities are all 1HKOs to Grievous who needs the element of surprise to win duels as stated by Dooku.
First off, I will like to state how much this is a well designed video in general. You provided great editing skill along with evidence & reasonable conclusions. I really enjoyed this video with how well crafted it was. With that said, I do have questions in the verdict (spoiler warning from here on out.) I think the verdict placed to much reliance on Zannah’s ability of sith mind techniques for her victory rather than how she would be able to integrate it properly & what it would truely do to grievous & how it would affect him. With grievous being partially influenced by the programming when it comes to his behaviour, it could provide a way to circumvent Zannah’s mind abilities & perhaps even work against her as this video has stated that grievous’s programming makes him rely more on violence & instinct. This could in turn make grievous more angry & may motivate him to kill her even more. Not saying it’s useless, it could certain trip up the cyborg but there’s a chance of it backfiring as it may just make him more angry which would just make grievous keep up on the assault. Keep in mind while this force ability isn’t something grievous knows about, it doesn’t mean the ability isn’t something that’s similar to another force ability, case in point the mind trick. Grievous, while never having to deal with mind tricks by the jedi, is probably aware of its existence. Sure the video has said that palpatine mind tricked grievous but this feat doesn’t seem to show proper evidence from what I recall. The clip showcases the scene where grievous was suppose to capture palpatine which shown through dialogue that grievous wasn’t killing him because his master wanted him alive, & why would dooku want to have grievous risk the possibility of killing his master? If there is evidence to support the use of the mind trick being used then please correct me but If this isn’t true then there would seem to be no form of media that showcases grievous was influenced by a mind trick. Doesn’t mean he’s immune but it would bring up the question on if it would affect him at all, & since we know he has influence of programming & that droids can’t be mind tricked then it can provide that he could have a resistance to it or can say that mind tricks aren’t as affective as it would normally be. With that being said, the mind trick of a jedi does have a similar practicality to what Zannah can do. Except with a mind trick you’re directly influencing the mind to get a character to do whatever you want while the sith spells that zannah is more designed to try & bring about a certain state of emotion & psychical thought rather than directly affecting what they think which with how grievous is more prone to violence could result in that. It also doesn’t help that with how grievous operates in a fight, it will probably leave zannah little room to actually use the force in a way that could beat grievous. Grievous is designed to be up at the opponents face, cycling through different attack styles & forcing the opponent to push all their force reserves into augmenting their physical traits to keep up with grievous. With this video showcasing how statistically superior grievous is it can prove to be difficult for her to reliably keep up & have much chance to use the right tools easily, especially immediately if the fight doesn’t have prep time since it would be hard pressed for zannah to figure out grievous was a living entity which of course she would find out eventually but might be too late when she does if grievous is able to drain her out, damage her weapon & even land a physical strike which would most likely end in her defeat. Sure she has tanked & survive attacks from bane physically but grievous is more consistently brutal with how he does it, using his hands or feet to crush human skulls or even grabbing his opponent to allow him to lead up follow up attacks. It also doesn’t help that grievous’s mechanical limbs are sharp as well & could theoretically be used to pierce through zannah skin which could also cause her to bleed which can restrain her. I will also like to point out that the duel between kenobi & grievous, while kenobi won wasn’t due to the blade, rather the blaster. In the duel while kenobi clearly had the upper hand, grievous did start to get the advantage at the end of the duel before the clones interrupted it. He did so by getting into a saber lock & managed to swing another one to break it, forcing kenobi to fall back. Sure this wasn’t a true sigh he was going to turn the tables but it shows that grievous still held is own & the fight could have ended in a grievous victory if the clones didn’t interrupted as their lightsaber duel wasn’t over. Funny enough if grievous didn’t have his blaster present then he could have ended up winning the fight since kenobi wouldn’t be able to kill grievous like that & it could have made grievous focus more on hand to hand combat when he tried to defeat kenobi. But overall good video. Just a questionable verdict IMO. I will say tho that if the fight had prep time & wasn’t just them being dropped down into a arena with no experience against one another then I see the sith’s advantages being more prevalent & perhaps giving her a more favourable match up.
GreyJedi's voice was a wonderful surprise and I think the two of you did a grand job with this match-up. I honestly wasn't able to call it a Z-win with how the video was going but the victory makes perfect sense. I also really liked your detour into the Jedi/Sith struggling with specific Forms and how Kenobi embodied the philosophy of Soresu instead of "merely" mastering it.
If I remember correctly in Labirynth of evil during fight between Grievous and Windu, general fell off the train despite seeing through Mace's trap, but his robotic self took one step to many. This can be used as argument that he is susceptible for traps, but also that he would keep going even after mental breakdown due to spells.
Always glad to see you or the other council members upload. Hope with everything going on you are doing well. Versus series suggestions: Lord Hoth vs. Rahm Kota Exar Kun vs. Darth Krayt Shaak Ti vs. Mara Jade Skywalker Darth Maul vs. Darth Nihl Nomi Sunrider vs. Zannah Saba Sebatyne vs. Oppo Rancisis Corran Horn vs. Tholme Plo Koon vs. Kam Solusar Darth Malgus vs. Lord Hoth
Neither of the Hoth matchups are really all that doable as his record is mostly hype and feats against fodder. He would probably best Kota, though. Skip. Skip. Skip. (I've answered a lot of these before, no offense) I wanna say Zannah but Force Sever is a broken as fuck ability, and Sunrider's ability to dispel the illusions of sorcerers from her era might give her a strong upper hand against a relatively passive duelist like Zannah. Saba should soundly take this, though that's an interesting idea. Horn wins in a cagematch, otherwise Tholme likely ghosts him after realizing he's outmatched. Hmmm.... that's a good one. Not sure.
Seen a lot of these before. Here goes. Krayt but Kun makes him work for it. Mara Assuming TPM, then Maul. Nomi is the anti-zannah. She has the Battle Meditation to dispel Sith Sorcery and Sever Force is some high quality hax. Saba Corran. This is a mismatch Plo Not a lot to work with for Hoth. Even if we highball Hoth, Malgus.
JediAcolyte26 Best guess in my opinion. Lord Hoth Darth krayt especially reborn krayt Possibly Mara jade because of a slight edge in force abilities but that fight may be pretty close. Don’t know darth nihl that well. Nomi sunrider but she’ll have to really work to break through zannahs defense. Don’t know sebatyne that well but I really wish they could add sebatyne in a vs vid. Corran horn Really tough call between plo koon vs kam solusar. Malgus, even before his return in swtor after the eternal throne dlc.
@Emperor Vowrawn I can agree with most of these but I think you're sleeping on Darth Krayt. Exar could probably handle Krayt w/ Vong infection but late Legacy Krayt wouldn't fall that easily. Plus Krayt did go up against Abeloth at the same time Luke Skywalker did.
Emperor Vowrawn okay, but what about pre sith ritual kun, when he was in his own body??? In terms of force abilities I could probably see kun taking the slight edge due to plethora of sith sorcery spells, though I think krayt in terms of power and shatter point shortens the gap between the two. As for lightsaber combat, especially if kun uses his “oh so special” saberstaff, I give it to krayt, his use of niman just looked more refine than kuns.
It is so disheartening that the Star Wars "canon" incorporated Bane almost immediately, but left Zannah behind. She's such a cool character with so much potential for stories. And, honestly, it's pretty fucking cool that the first successful rule of 2 application was a lithe, slender woman beating an angry, physically imposing old guy. But oh well. The mouse only likes its female characters when they're perfect and without any flaws. Just another of many reasons to ignore post-Disney Star Wars.
I actually thought Grievous was going to win before I started playing the video. Very good analysis of both as well, particularly Zannah! A good matchup indeed!
Not going to lie, this one has been bouncing around my head because of the outlandish fighting styles compared to most other lightsaber duelests. Awesome as always! I’m rooting for Zannah from the start.
Im super glad you're back! That said, I'm kinda bummed you keep using the same jedi/sith. I'd love to see some njo characters like Saba Sabstyne(dont think I spelled that right) or tenel ka. Everyone on the verses council seems to shy away from characters from this time period, and I think you're missing a huge amount of potential there. Again, I'm glad you're back and I'm excited for the rest of season 7!
I think the problem is that a lot of background NJO characters don't have a lot of feats to them to actually develop interesting fight videos without relying on heavy speculation.
Although I have many grievances with stuff regarding Zannah, "easily turned away" is inaccurate. As in the situation referenced Bane got his force shield up but it still pushed him so hard into a wall it knocked the air from his lungs and it's overall energy turned the bystander into pulp.
Zannah: So I'm going to fight a non force using cyborg with asthma? This is just sad. Grievous: *Drops down infront of her out off nowhere and activates his four lightsabers* hello there. Zannah: ...Bane I'm scared!
@@jonmurray4652 2 Minute is actually long for a lightsaber duel. I mean some of the duel are not even a minute Lol. Also its 2003 grievous so i disagree.
You two are excellent writers. creatively analyzing two fighters based on the material is an art form you both have mastered. I hope one day to see you analyze real world combat scenarios past or present. I look forward to your future efforts in your chosen genre.
I don't agree. I'm not convinced she would be able to use her spells to begin with, considering how fast the bot can be. But even if she manages to do so, her spell of fear and madness have never left an opponent completely comatose; sure, shreiking, scared and susceptible to attacks, but not incapable of attacking themselves. Now I'm not sure what a 'apesh*t' grevious would look like, but I have a hard time picturing zannah handling a flaying cyborg
Darth Zannah was Dark Lord of the Sith. General Greivous was always meant to be a thug. He's hired help. There's no real situation where he defeats a Sith Lord.
@@nwobw You clearly don't know his lore then cause he's a lot more than just a thug. The show really did him dirty and it's only because they said and I quote "we wanted a mustache twirling villain". Grievous's entire fighting style is based on prevent force users from being able to focus on use the force. He's got strength and speed on her. He can attack 20 times in one second and knows all fighting forms down to a t. Plus he's got plenty of experience in fighting force users since that's primarily the type of people he fights and is a known and feared Jedi killer. I'm not saying she can't beat him but he wouldn't get stomped just cause she's a Dark Lord of the sith.
@@KanekiKen-fc3qo I'm quite familiar with the EU and Canon versions of Greivous. Sidious and Dooku valued him as a weapon. Nothing more. And I like Grievous. But Darth Zannah was a full fledged member of the Rule of Two. It would be a great fight, Greivous is not taking out a Rule of Two Sith Lord. If you understand character archetypes and the place they occupy in stories, this is obvious.
Wow as I was watching I thought you were going to side with Grievous and it made me sad. This was very well constructed and I gotta agree. I feel like zannah gets more hate than she deserves. Also although we never see her using lightning I feel it is within her capabilities especially later in her career. It’s such a staple of the sith Arsenal that I feel all rule of two would at least have sufficient knowledge of how to do it to be able to teach it to their apprentice.
Congrats on 100K subscribers Evan! Been watchin’ since your react/thoughts on Dragonball Absalon Episode 1 & 2 videos. Wish they were still up, brought to light things I didn’t notice my 1st watch through that micro series.
Spoilers for anyone who hasn't watched the whole video (you've been warned): Good thing I didn't give a pre-watch prediction, because I'd've been DEAD wrong!! I honestly wouldn't have thought Zannah's spells were enough to take down Grievous, though not discard it as a possibility for it to happen (slim odds, IMO). Great video by you, Mr. 95, as well as Mr. 91. Keep up the great work & hope y'all are staying safe in spite of this Covid-19 bullshit!!
This may have been better in a vs short, I really don't see any way Grievous could withstand Zannah spells, considering that she considered that being able to wake up a few days afterward after a spell that explicitly wasn't even at full power was proof enough that Set Harth had the potencial to become a rule of two sith lord. The only one who has been shown to break free of her spells of madness, and not without difficulty was her master, who fully expected it and has great resistance toward mental power, as seen when he was the only sith of the brotherhood who could fully resist Khan's influence. Grievous has none of those advantages, he isn't a force sensitive, he has never seen sith sorcery (if we are ignoring TCW) and it would most likely be something that Dooku and Sidious would want to hold back from him.
1.She would need to do that before Grievous guts her not really happening if Asajj couldn't do it who is basically Zannah but better 2. Again as above^ 3. Grievous does have something Bane lacks ridicoulous speed to slaughter Zannah before she can say a word
The problem with this is Evan was most primarily interested in the Martial Arts comparison which, if focused on exclusively in a short, would have slanted things out of Zannah's favor. It may be longer and more drawn out the way we did it, but it wound up maintaining the more objective overall verdict.
@@GreyJedi91 Still though if force wielder that are faster and more skilled than Zannah couldn't use the Force on Grievous while he is on top of them I am not sure Zannah could she has no feats on contending with people like Grievous I wouldn't even consider Bane as skilled or as fast as Grievous
@@GreyJedi91 Still an amazing video, and I must admit that Zannah winning a versus series episode for once is rather satisfying as the darth bane trilogy is quite possibility my favorite piece of the extended universe
@@Redoren966 Saying that Zannah is a lesser Ventress is selling her short in my opinion. Unlike her, she was a true rule of two sith lord who proved her might by besting Darth Bane, something I believe Ventress would have no hope in accomplishing.
Honestly this comes down to opinion. I don't view Zannah on the same level as Kenobi for being a defensive duelist and the ergonomics of her weapon are another factor in how she fairs here. I can totally see how people can draw a conclusion she would take a slight majority for the fact they think that she will be able to pull off her mental manipulation or sorcery before getting overwhelmed. I totally respect that opinion and the possibility is definitely there. However, in my opinion, this will not happen before she gets cut down. I believe, despite the possibility for her to stall time for a mind attack, Grievous would not allow her to get any openings by virtue of a completely endless stream of lightsaber strikes. Take for example what he was doing to Shaak Ti in the microseries Hypori battle when she was singled out and the output he had against Kenobi in the ROTS Novelisation. Shaak Ti is not a primarily defensive duelist but she was overwhelmed relatively quickly and it took everything Kenobi had and more in order to successfully keep up with the attack. Zannah will be struck down imo 6-4.
Its debatable, due to how strong Zannah is in the force, she might just do what Mace Windu did in the clone war 2003 show before and force crush Grevious' chest and end the fight just like that. However, if Grevious manages to close the gap and get into a lightsaber fight, and not give her the chance to use the force, then he might be able to brute force his way to defeat her. Its debatable, in my opinion, it depends on what kind of battlefield. If it is open plains/area, Zannah can see Grevious coming in from a mile away and just ragdoll him with the force. However, if it is in some enclosed area like a cruiser wreckage on Hypori, underground sewers, or the corridors on a starship, then I'd say Grevious has the chance to close in and butcher her before Zannah can react.
I see your opinion as a very real possibility but it basically comes down to this whenever Zannah faces pretty much anyone, can she hold them off long enough to use her sith spells or force abilities and is that person susceptible to her spells of madness? If so then she wins, if they dont work then she loses due to her lack of offensive capabilities without her force powers
Been about a day since this matchup was posted and after reading some comments, it got me thinking of some matchups. Kar Vastor vs Lord Nyax (2 Juggernauts. 1 corrupted by nature, the other by machines) Darth Bane vs Zayne Carrick (the question of hax overcoming a mismatch of power and skill) Cade Skywalker vs Kyle Katarn (both have custom blasters and both have skill in light and dark side abilities) Darth Krayt (Vong infected) vs Darth Vader Cade vs Darth Caedus (the Skywalker's anti-hero vs the Skywalker's anti villain) Thon vs Yarael Poof (if this is a mismatch, Poof is Robot Chicken version). I seriously can't think of a good matchup for Thon or Poof.
How about Roron Corobb vs Asaak Dan? Both are quite obscure, but I believe we do know enough about their respective eras and they are quite unique in a physical sense, which might be interesting to talk about...
@Emperor Vowrawn probably true, I was just thinking who might be a cool match-up against Master Dan, and as he is very obscure, I founf that very tricki, as most are either too powerful or not powerful enough or have more fleshed out characterisation.
Great video, good work Evan and Matt. Some versus suggestions: Darth Bane vs Oppo Rancisis Lord Hoth vs Mace Windu Darth Sion vs Qui-Gon Jinn Yoda vs Lumiya Exar Kun vs Darth Caedus(One of the potential matchups you had for the VS Series season 4 Finale) Darth Malak vs Darth Maul(TCW)[or any version really, to try and keep it balanced]
As much as I'd like to see him in a Versus Series, as Darth Sion can't die, that's not really an option. They have mentioned it's possible, I'm not sure Qui-Gon could subdue him in such a way. Side note: No one has ever tried beheading him, do you think he could survive that?
Bane stomps. Oppo can definitely throw his opponent a curveball with his alien physiology and extra limbs, but those won't be anything more than targets to a juggernaut like Bane and Oppo's focus on passive Force powers doesn't really do him any favors in this contest against Bane's sheer willpower. Throw in Bane's roundly superior feats of speed, endurance, etc. and there's no way the poor snakeman slithers out of this alive. Not enough data on Hoth. Nothing he's done conclusively places him anywhere near Windu's level anyway. I'd say Sion. Jinn is likely on par as a lightsaber duelist, but is a less aggressive Force user and Sion can literally will himself back to life if he gets struck down which makes this a countdown to Jinn's death as his stamina isn't going to outdo Sion's tenacity. Yeah, no. This is a clever idea and on paper the Dark Lady's lightwhip makes this a logistically challenging fight, but Lumiya gets shoved aside pretty quickly by Yoda's superior Force power or is straight-up speedblitzed. Grandmaster Luke was usually holding back against Lumiya, and Yoda is arguably as fast as well as a much smaller target. Caedus is definitely more powerful with a vast knowledge of the Force and his speed feats and Black Knight-like resilience outweigh a glass cannon like Kun, but Kun's bag of ancient Sith tricks, unorthodox approach to the lightsaber and OP-as-fuck amulet make this far from a sure thing. I'd say Caedus takes 7/10, though. Hmmm.... good matchup. I'm favoring TCW Maul on the back of his greater willingness to use Force powers compared to his TPM incarnation, along with better physical performance and a more well-rounded skillset compared to Malak's all-in Juyo offense. However, Malak's Sith sorcery and other Force abilities still make this a hard call.
Bane stomps Hoth is hard to qualify Sion outlasts. Literally can't die Yoda. Wouldn't the lightwhip tangle against a small target like Yoda? Kun is the superior swordsman and trickster. But Caedus is the more rounded force user. Leaning on Kun because Hax. Oh dear god Malak stomps.
@@wristofkings Didn't think about Son of Dathomir stuff. Basically thought about Darth Maul when he fought Kenobi on Madalore. Just thinking that Malak is more skilled and more powerful. Blasts Maul with Force Lightning, Stuns him with force stun or potentially pulls out Sith Sorcery. Son of Dathomir Maul is a lot closer though.
Nice I kinda felt like Grievous had this but it could go either which way. Some suggestions I have that be cool to see -Kreia/Darth Traya vs Qui Gon Jinn -Yoda vs Emperor Vitiate/Valkorion -Darth Krayt vs Exar Kun -Galen Marek and Darth Vader vs Darth Revan and Darth Malek -Darth Nihilus vs Obi Wan Kenobi
Congratulations on reaching 100.000 subscribers Evan, I really enjoyed your videos and if you happened to see this comment, I just wanna say keep up the good work.😁 And as always l, May the Force be with you.
Holy crap. Knew you were working on this matchup but didn't know it was a GreyJedi91 collab. And for this to come out so soon after posting your list of top Battlemasters. Going into this, Im split (but leaning on Zannah). On the one hand, Zannah mindfucks Greivous hard. On the other hand, Greivous as a swordsman terminates Zannah. Blade binding, 4 lightsabers, integration of unarmed combat, and RNG? Yeah Zannah is a form 3 master, but logistically she is a bit different than Kenobi. Also, Zannah (like Bane) can have a bad time against opponents outside of her knowledge base. And a 4 blade RNG Machine Terminator is def out of Zannah's experience. 11:19 That artwork of Grevious is awesome. 13:10 I would argue you left out a big Grevious reaction feat. IG 100-Magnaguards according to the ROTS novelization can react just under light speed. Since Greivous can easily outperform them, its safe to assume Grevious has reactions>>>Magnaguards so he likely has light speed reactions if not FTL reactions. 18:43 Yeah no one will disagree with you on this. 26:45 Everyone knows Lus-Ma is the most rare lightsaber technique. Its like Pot of Greed. OP but no one knows what it actually is. 36:05 Interesting discussion and points on the difference of Zannah and Kenobi as form 3 masters. And kind of why she has a bad time against Grevious. Yes Zannah has dealt with style shifting tactics before, but not at the speeds Grevious does it. Yes her efficient technique can keep up with Grevious like Kenobi can, but her need to maintain her rhythm is something that Grevious can disrupt. 37:45 Thank you for addressing the weapon logistics. The limited range of movements of the double bladed lightsaber is a bad matchup against omni directional 4 std lightsabers. Im not saying Zannah can't stall a bit and hold off Grevious is the short term, but her def will break before Grevious gives into fatigue or frustration and Zannah counters. 49:35 Yeah, the Sith sorcery is where Grevious is going to have an awful time. He might have a high degree of willpower, but he's not prepared or mentally stable enough to handle that technique. This matchup is not a question of Zannahs ability to win with this ability, its her odds of landing the ability. 51:50 Agreed. Zannah's spells viability really depends on the person who its used on. 53:30 Good example but I don't feel its the same as Grevious hammering Zannah with 4 blades. But yeah, her ability to multi task between lightsaber combat and Sith sorcery did improve a lot. 59:00 Great arguments overall and Zannah winning by mindfuck makes a lot of sense. She probably would pull of the spell before Grevious would overload her to death. Well edited and argued video. A solid breakdown of Grevious that is quite different from Jensaarai1's. GreyJedi91 and your style def shows even in a collab with Evan. Makes we wonder about Exar Kun vs Darth Bane though.
two points 1) while you're right that Zannah's victories on Tython were overblown a bit by many, keep in mind she was only 20 there and that this should be a comparison on them at their peak (so at least 10 years later). 2) I understand you're attempting to make this analysis conservative based on the evidence, but there is also a difference between "she lacked the ability to do X" vs "she has never been shown to do X". just because she didn't use sith lightning in the books doesn't mean she can't, merely that an ideal time to do so never presented itself where other tactics wouldn't have worked better. aside from that, solid analysis. more or less what my thoughts were on the matter.
HELLO THERE!!!! As much as of a favorite of Darth Zannah, I think general Grevious would destroy her, but thanks to Sith magic and the force by Zannah’s skills and abilities.
Great video as always! Out of curiosity, would you ever consider doing a video featuring Lord Kaan as one of the contestants? I’ve heard there isn’t a ton of concrete info on his combat abilities, so I understand if the answer is no, but I’m certainly curious as to how he would actually stack up against the other proper Sith Lords.
Hard to say. There is a decent amount of info on his Force abilities, but his physical and martial talents would require ALOT of assumptions.Plus, we've never really seen him in a fight so we don't have much to draw on.
EvanNova95 That makes sense! Well, if you ever do decide to do an analysis on him in a versus or “how powerful was...” episode I’ll be sure to check it out. Thanks Evan!
I think there is a big difference between Zannah never being shown using force lightning, and her not having the ability. It's never been stated that she's *not capable* of using force lightning, and in fact I'd say it can be heavily assumed that she does possess the ability. Bane states her potential in the force surpasses his own, she can do things with the force he can't even attempt, and she's a master of sith sorcery. Sith Lightning is just the simplest form of sith sorcery. She almost certainly had the ability; she just wasn't inclined to use it unlike some other Sith.
@@EvanNova95 Think Kreia has some very interesting options to fight against with her unique skillset. Would be fascinated to see how a match between her and Dooku or Lumiya would pan out possibly.
By knowing the location of one blade, you automatically know the location of the second. - lord Kaseim brotherhood of darkness to lord bane of the banite sith
Collaboration!.....Again!...No, but in all seriousness massive props to my friend GreyJedi91 for editing this matchup. If you haven't yet done so I highly recommend going over and giving him some love. Hope you enjoy!
Like I said before you wanna work together on Zayne Carrick vs. Ahsoka Tano sometime soon
EvanNova95 I already know I’m gonna enjoy when it’s you
FINALLY!!! The legend is back again
Evan how does the matchup Tenel Ka Djo Vs Adi Galia sound? random yes but both are very underrated characters I just thought about it and thought you might be interested
DO DARTH MALGUS VS ANAKIN SKYWALKER
Thanks to Evan for his patience on this one. Editing began back in late December, but I had a lot of upsets get in the way of completing it. Hope it was worth the wait.
A fine collaboration as always.
hope this means one more versus video
Very much worth the wait
In the words of Count Dooku, "I've been looking forward to this".
Anakin: “My powers have multiplied since the last time we met, count!” Count Doku: “Anakin you must say what’s in the script.” Anakin: “I HATE YOU!”
Showing Tenebrous, Plagueis, and Sidious in a row like that really demonstrates that for all its flaws, the Rule of Two did its job excellently.
The sith order got weekend after tenebrous because plagueis and sidious never earned there Darth title properly by taking it from there master fairly.what was one of the main reasons for rule of two was made for then they keep stronger.not like plagueis and sidious had to cheap attack but they were suppose to challenge and surpass there master
@@jonmurray4652 I don’t think that fairness is what the rule of two emphasizes. They outsmarted their master to defeat them, so they are stronger. Brains over bronze.
@@huntereveland9430 brains did not stop Sidious from force lightninging himself to death in RoSW
@@KumaoftheForest Sidious became so powerful he didn't need brains anymore. He just comes back with the unnatural power of bad writing. Remember: He is aLL tHE sItH!!1
@@leiferikson850 Yeah but that also brings up the idea that Sidious may actually be Tenebrous, Plaguies, etc. in spirit. We might have to consider essence transfer here.
Or you can stick to Legends, where Sidious just uses clone bodies and is still the strongest thing in existence lol. Pick your poison.
He has returned to us in our most dire time of need.
He who??
@@nathanielbables8652 greyjedi!!
It was told he would bring balance to the force not destroy it!!!
Evan nova:
the two different versions are completely incompadable.
TCW Grievous sees gungans: a'ight Imma head out
OG Grievous after slauthering on Hypori: I'm about to comit a mass murder
Lmaooo
@Cody Brock the spinning torso was some cool shit! *let it rip.* i alway figure the outer shell of the torsso wher the arms connected was the only thin spinning anyway while the inner container of his vitals kept in place. Like one of those cement mixers but in reverse.
Kenobi: "I didn't choose the Sorisu lyfe, the Sorisu lyfe chose me" ~
Finally Darth Zannah given the justice she deserves.My favorite Dark Lady of the Sith
ikr mine too
Justice would be saying she would destroy grieves in 2 min
@@jonmurray4652 All Zannah would need to do is zap him with force lightning.
I’ve said it time and time again, if Zannah was trained in Niman/Makashi, she could be as good as Dooku if not better
As another powerful sith once said: "Don’t be too proud of this technological terror you’ve constructed. [It] is insignificant next to the power of the Force."
Loved this analysis. You both did a marvelous job. I'm a fan of Darth Zannah, Nomi Sunrider, Bastila Shan, Satele Shan, Mara Jade, Lumiya, and Darth Traya. Thus, I enjoy analyses such as these. :)
Me: i am going to sleep
Evan drops a new video
Sleep can wait
Literally me right now at 02 36 am 😂
Ok then... Grievous was all gangsta!... Until the blond lady began using sorcery!
55:58 "Obi-Wan Kenobi IS Soresu."
Love it.
Calling it now--Grievous' mind is a prime target for Zannah's sorcery, and she has the defense necessary to hold out and/or smack him around with TK before dealing a decisive blow. It's possible that Grievous can overwhelm her if she makes a tactical blunder, but not very likely.
Why Grievous has too much speed and strength
I actually agree with this. Interestingly enough, later on, after she defeated Bane, she bacame a master of this technique along with her myriad of other skills. That's what made her so special I think. She was one of my favorite Sith Lords.
@@DarthBalsamic Why her implied growth is still just implied not to mention again she has no feats of speed on Grievous' level
@@Redoren966 I disagree, but ok. I'm speaking strictly on her strongest abilities overcoming whatever speed advantages Grievous has; not to mention she is the high level apprentice of Darth Bane who'd likely wipe out Grievous on his own. He didn't train a scrub now. Remember, she beat Bane, and regardless of his condition, she had advanced quite far to beat him singlehandedly.
Grevious is probably faster than most Jedi as well anyway, but that doesn't make him unstoppable by any means. That alone is an assumption, and perhaps opinion, that his speed just simply overcomes all. Your reasoning goes both ways my friend.
@@DarthBalsamic 1. Darth Bane has no strength,speed or skill feat that Grievous hasn't surpassed how is he wining?
2. It is when four sabers stab Zannah before her spells can save her
3. Here is the thing Obi-wan is basically Zannah but better at everything but knowledge of the dark side was pushed to his limits by Grievous how is Zannah fending off Grievous if he couldn't?
6:42, I mean, it’s as simple as this: in terms of a purely physical confrontation, Grievous obviously wins (though not easily). Allowing Zannah her Force powers and especially her Sith sorcery however, drastically turns the tide to majorly favor her winning... only potentially losing if the supposed starting distance for this hypothetical match-up has Grievous basically right on top of her from the get-go.
9:42, PRETTY sure the instance you’re referring to was back in RoT, 10 years before Zannah’s apparent prime in DoE, which I’m ASSUMING is the iteration being pitted against Grievous here (though honestly, RoT Zannah would be a more fair opponent for Grievous).
Also, while yes, Bane simply is more impressive in terms of durability/pain-tolerance/whatever, Zannah’s few impressive feats in the same category are made all the more impressive when you consider they were performed AGAINST Bane: her being kicked in the ribs by an orbalisk-encrusted Bane; and not only continue defending against an offensive onslaught from Bane in DoE, but performing a triple back-handspring, all after suffering a broken rib from Bane mere moments prior. Like, on their own, on surface-level those feats aren’t that crazy... until you factor in this is Bane, who, while weakened, was able to rip a durasteel door off its hinges with his bare hands. When we factor THAT into the equation, we can then give Zannah’s few durability feats the due respect they deserve.
All that said, of course Grievous gets the edge in the area of physical capabilities. It’s just not by any great measure is all (despite what you both believe and reveal a little bit further on in the video).
16:51, you gonna back that up and actually substantiate that rather bold claim, Evan? No? Ok. Lol.
18:03, actually, via scaling
(DoE Zannah~DoE Bane
DoE Bane>RoT Bane
RoT Bane>BM-amped Raskta Lsu
BM-amped Raskta>Grievous. To reiterate, this line of scaling is specifically in regard to speed only.),
Zannah COULD be argued to be faster than Grievous, not solely in regard to sprinting speed, but speed in general, even INCLUDING Grievous utilizing his 4-arm fighting style.
(Regarding substantiating this line of scaling, specifically BM-amped Lsu being faster than Grievous, I supply it further on down when one of Grievous’ most overhyped speed feats is mentioned.)
21:46, what you said rings true for her against Bane, but not so much against Sarro Xaj. Her fight against Sarro Xaj was 10 years pre-prime, and Sarro was empowered by battle meditation, so...
21:56, BOTH occasions? In her fight against Sarro Xaj (and Johun Othone), while she had a momentary lapse in concentration when she checked how Bane was doing in his separate engagement (something we can arguably assume she would have matured out of doing after 10-years-growth), the text also mentions this:
“Before they could engage her, she backpedaled toward one of the corners, stopping several meters from the intersection of the two walls. This allowed her to protect her flanks, but still left enough space for her to duck, dodge, and evade the weapons of her enemies.”
That’s clearly a situationally and tactically sound move right there. 🤷♂️
And against Bane, in the Stone Prison was more Bane utilizing his inane cunning more so than Zannah proving to be environmentally unaware. Their final confrontation, when Zannah trips over the freshly dug grave, is indeed perhaps the only REAL example that points to any lack of situational/environmental awareness on Zannah’s part, and even then we still have to factor in that that probably wouldn’t have happened if Bane wasn’t bearing down on her so aggressively, and if she wasn’t simultaneously gathering her power to unleash a devastating spell against Bane. 🤷♂️
23:06, yes, WITH Xaj being empowered by Worror Dowmat’s battle meditation, Zannah definitely would have lost. WITHOUT though, what makes you think Xaj would have beaten her?
25:07, which source or sources definitively support or outright state Dooku deliberately withheld teaching Grievous everything he knew?
28:52, this feat is so largely overblown. For reference, in our REAL world, last I checked it, the world record for most strikes per second averaged 13.5, and, obviously, that was done with 2 arms, not 4. So ramping up to 20 strikes per second with 4 arms really isn’t all that impressive. 😂
And to even relate it to an in-universe comparison, Raskta Lsu struck Bane faster in their duel: (the following is pulled from EmperorDMB’s respect thread on Raskta Lsu)
““Raska's blue blades flickered too quickly for the eye to see, neutralizing her enemy's initial, wild attack then landing half a dozen lethal blows to his chest and abdomen. But instead of toppling, the big man kept coming, never even breaking stride. He would have plowed straight into Raskta, trampling her under his heavy boots, had she not cartwheeled to the side at the last possible instant.”
-Darth Bane: Rule of Two
Considering Bane was running at her, the standard lightsaber blade length of a meter, and the average human footspeed of 15 mph (or 6.7056 meters per second), for her to land half a dozen strikes on Bane before he could close what was at most a two meter distance between them (a meter for Raskta's bladelength, and an estimated meter for her arm length), a conservative estimate suggests her striking speed would need to be around twenty strikes per second: (6 strikes)/[(2 meters)/(6.7056 meters per second)] = (6 strikes)/(.298 seconds) = 20.134 strikes per second
Now this estimate is conservative for three reasons. First of all, Bane does not run at the average human footspeed, as he is a Dark Lord of the Sith with force based physical augmentation. Secondly, Raskta landed those half dozen strikes before Bane had closed the distance between them, not in the exact amount of time it took Bane to close the distance between them. And third, one meter is a generously long arm length estimation for Raskta Lsu, given that the length of one arm is less than half of a person's wingspan, with a person's wingspan being equal to their height, and Raskta being slightly shorter than the 1.85 meter tall Johun Othone. Thus, this feat demonstrates Raskta's amped striking speed to be well over twenty strikes per second.
Even if you don't believe in the relevancy of calculations, Raskta Lsu still landed half a dozen strikes on an extremely physically capable Dark Lord of the Sith in less time than it took him to run two meters, which in and of itself with no calculations, is still insanely impressive.”
^Also worth noting, Raskta, like the world-record-holder IRL, was utilizing not 4, but merely 2 arms.
Now, his most overblown feat aside, Grievous absolutely still has kept pace with and challenged the likes of Shaak Ti, Obi-Wan, Dooku, and Mace Windu. So clearly, regardless of the above feat and how ridiculous people make it out to be, his speed is AT THE VERY LEAST enough to seriously challenge Zannah.
Grievous does take the edge in martial prowess, but like in the prior category, there’s less of a gap there between the two than you two seem to think.
43:54, meh, an extremely watered-down version of the spell she was PLANNING on unleashing against Bane at the beginning of their fight still almost decommissioned him. I’m of the mind that she could simply casually rip apart Grievous’ mind and be done with it.
Conclusion, yeah, it’s as I said at the top: in a purely physical confrontation, Grievous wins, but allow Zannah the Force, and she obliterates Grievous, especially with her spells, against which, Grievous simply has no answer for.
Do you think Darth Bane could beat Grievous
@@KumaoftheForest yes, though given it would almost certainly be more of a physical engagement than Zannah against Grievous, I could see Bane struggling more than Zannah.
The way it goes down is either Bane eradicates Grievous kinda outright with The Force, like Zannah also could, or Bane engages Grievous in a physical confrontation. With the latter scenario, Bane will either incorporate Force powers and gain the advantage and most likely win, or he will succumb to the cyborg general.
So I see it that Grievous absolutely CAN realistically win against Bane, but I don’t see that being a majority of the time per se. Like, if the two were to fight 10 times, Bane wins around 8/10 times, whereas Zannah wins closer to 9/10 times.
If grievous has the element of surprise then its R.I.P. for zannah
@@NooNE-vu7qj, sure, I guess, but usually these kinds of versus match-ups are with the understanding that they are dropped cold into the fight, so Grievous getting the drop on her is pretty irrelevant, not to mention rather unlikely in-universe.
None of the people Zannah compares to COMPARE to the people like Shaak Ti , Asaj Ventress and early Anakin Skywalker.
Grievous being capable of handling these people with lyre speed alone , Grievous gets the edge in physical strength and even speed to some extent.
Although I agree Zannah could win
I don’t really consider it likely for Zannah to be able to power through the amount of offensive pressure Grievous would be providing. Even against Bane’s use of Juyo, Zannah had to take a considerable amount of time to draw upon the Force to use a mental attack, more than enough time for her to literally slip up and for Bane to overwhelm her for a time. But Grievous would strike even quicker, leaving Zannah no time to steady herself
Grievous would strike even quicker? Grievous aint even force-sensitive.. He can't protect vs force attacks, Zannah could literally just use her immense control of the force to lift him up and toy around with him. No need for lightsaber combat
PliwoFactor Considering Grievous would instantly go on the attack and constantly keep her under the pressure of 20 randomized strikes per second, not even giving her the time to use her force abilities, yeah I’d say so. Sure she COULD use telekinesis, but as pointed out in the video, this isn’t how she fights. She prefers to fall into a defensive stance and gather up the necessary energy to create a mental attack, but she wouldn’t be able to gather that energy under the overwhelming onslaught that Grievous could and would employ, just as she couldn’t against Bane until she was able to get distance between them
@@Spellshot693 If she can feel that the opponent is not attuned to the force, but can tell he is an exceptional warrior.. just use the force and victory is finished.
Dude I feel you, Zannah's only way of winning most match ups are her spells which are overestimated in my believe
First of all Bane is a master of all 7 forms but primarily uses form 5 and form 3. He doesnt use Juyo. Zannah fought evenly with Bane in Dynasty of evil until a shallow grave broke her defence. Zannahs force abilities are all 1HKOs to Grievous who needs the element of surprise to win duels as stated by Dooku.
Congrats on almost hitting 100k!
First off, I will like to state how much this is a well designed video in general. You provided great editing skill along with evidence & reasonable conclusions. I really enjoyed this video with how well crafted it was.
With that said, I do have questions in the verdict (spoiler warning from here on out.)
I think the verdict placed to much reliance on Zannah’s ability of sith mind techniques for her victory rather than how she would be able to integrate it properly & what it would truely do to grievous & how it would affect him.
With grievous being partially influenced by the programming when it comes to his behaviour, it could provide a way to circumvent Zannah’s mind abilities & perhaps even work against her as this video has stated that grievous’s programming makes him rely more on violence & instinct. This could in turn make grievous more angry & may motivate him to kill her even more. Not saying it’s useless, it could certain trip up the cyborg but there’s a chance of it backfiring as it may just make him more angry which would just make grievous keep up on the assault. Keep in mind while this force ability isn’t something grievous knows about, it doesn’t mean the ability isn’t something that’s similar to another force ability, case in point the mind trick. Grievous, while never having to deal with mind tricks by the jedi, is probably aware of its existence. Sure the video has said that palpatine mind tricked grievous but this feat doesn’t seem to show proper evidence from what I recall. The clip showcases the scene where grievous was suppose to capture palpatine which shown through dialogue that grievous wasn’t killing him because his master wanted him alive, & why would dooku want to have grievous risk the possibility of killing his master? If there is evidence to support the use of the mind trick being used then please correct me but If this isn’t true then there would seem to be no form of media that showcases grievous was influenced by a mind trick. Doesn’t mean he’s immune but it would bring up the question on if it would affect him at all, & since we know he has influence of programming & that droids can’t be mind tricked then it can provide that he could have a resistance to it or can say that mind tricks aren’t as affective as it would normally be.
With that being said, the mind trick of a jedi does have a similar practicality to what Zannah can do. Except with a mind trick you’re directly influencing the mind to get a character to do whatever you want while the sith spells that zannah is more designed to try & bring about a certain state of emotion & psychical thought rather than directly affecting what they think which with how grievous is more prone to violence could result in that.
It also doesn’t help that with how grievous operates in a fight, it will probably leave zannah little room to actually use the force in a way that could beat grievous. Grievous is designed to be up at the opponents face, cycling through different attack styles & forcing the opponent to push all their force reserves into augmenting their physical traits to keep up with grievous. With this video showcasing how statistically superior grievous is it can prove to be difficult for her to reliably keep up & have much chance to use the right tools easily, especially immediately if the fight doesn’t have prep time since it would be hard pressed for zannah to figure out grievous was a living entity which of course she would find out eventually but might be too late when she does if grievous is able to drain her out, damage her weapon & even land a physical strike which would most likely end in her defeat. Sure she has tanked & survive attacks from bane physically but grievous is more consistently brutal with how he does it, using his hands or feet to crush human skulls or even grabbing his opponent to allow him to lead up follow up attacks. It also doesn’t help that grievous’s mechanical limbs are sharp as well & could theoretically be used to pierce through zannah skin which could also cause her to bleed which can restrain her.
I will also like to point out that the duel between kenobi & grievous, while kenobi won wasn’t due to the blade, rather the blaster. In the duel while kenobi clearly had the upper hand, grievous did start to get the advantage at the end of the duel before the clones interrupted it. He did so by getting into a saber lock & managed to swing another one to break it, forcing kenobi to fall back. Sure this wasn’t a true sigh he was going to turn the tables but it shows that grievous still held is own & the fight could have ended in a grievous victory if the clones didn’t interrupted as their lightsaber duel wasn’t over. Funny enough if grievous didn’t have his blaster present then he could have ended up winning the fight since kenobi wouldn’t be able to kill grievous like that & it could have made grievous focus more on hand to hand combat when he tried to defeat kenobi.
But overall good video. Just a questionable verdict IMO. I will say tho that if the fight had prep time & wasn’t just them being dropped down into a arena with no experience against one another then I see the sith’s advantages being more prevalent & perhaps giving her a more favourable match up.
Palpatine uses a mind trick on Grievous in the novel "Labyrinth of Evil."
Wright805 he did?
Yea but this isnt a anti feat, FFS Its SIDIOUS, Ya know....the force wielder with a freakishly strong connection to the force and the dark side.
Sleep: Exists
This video: I'm about to end this mans whole career
Shut up
@@darthmorgoththesecond9990 You live in your mom's basement dont you?
@@Romaboo680 he defo does 😂
GreyJedi's voice was a wonderful surprise and I think the two of you did a grand job with this match-up. I honestly wasn't able to call it a Z-win with how the video was going but the victory makes perfect sense. I also really liked your detour into the Jedi/Sith struggling with specific Forms and how Kenobi embodied the philosophy of Soresu instead of "merely" mastering it.
“Don’t be too proud of this technological terror you’ve constructed. The ability to be uncivilized is insignificant next to the power of the Force.”
Great video and here is a unique match up the sacrificing Jedi Knights Ganner ryhsode vs Etain tur-mukan
If I remember correctly in Labirynth of evil during fight between Grievous and Windu, general fell off the train despite seeing through Mace's trap, but his robotic self took one step to many. This can be used as argument that he is susceptible for traps, but also that he would keep going even after mental breakdown due to spells.
To even put macewindo and zanna force multiplication on same level speaks how little you know cause zanna could make jedi knights her slave
Not for a second like window for about 20 mins
@@jonmurray4652 But Mace ain't no regular Jedi Knight my guy
Always glad to see you or the other council members upload. Hope with everything going on you are doing well.
Versus series suggestions: Lord Hoth vs. Rahm Kota
Exar Kun vs. Darth Krayt
Shaak Ti vs. Mara Jade Skywalker
Darth Maul vs. Darth Nihl
Nomi Sunrider vs. Zannah
Saba Sebatyne vs. Oppo Rancisis
Corran Horn vs. Tholme
Plo Koon vs. Kam Solusar
Darth Malgus vs. Lord Hoth
Neither of the Hoth matchups are really all that doable as his record is mostly hype and feats against fodder. He would probably best Kota, though.
Skip.
Skip.
Skip. (I've answered a lot of these before, no offense)
I wanna say Zannah but Force Sever is a broken as fuck ability, and Sunrider's ability to dispel the illusions of sorcerers from her era might give her a strong upper hand against a relatively passive duelist like Zannah.
Saba should soundly take this, though that's an interesting idea.
Horn wins in a cagematch, otherwise Tholme likely ghosts him after realizing he's outmatched.
Hmmm.... that's a good one. Not sure.
Seen a lot of these before. Here goes.
Krayt but Kun makes him work for it.
Mara
Assuming TPM, then Maul.
Nomi is the anti-zannah. She has the Battle Meditation to dispel Sith Sorcery and Sever Force is some high quality hax.
Saba
Corran. This is a mismatch
Plo
Not a lot to work with for Hoth. Even if we highball Hoth, Malgus.
JediAcolyte26
Best guess in my opinion.
Lord Hoth
Darth krayt especially reborn krayt
Possibly Mara jade because of a slight edge in force abilities but that fight may be pretty close.
Don’t know darth nihl that well.
Nomi sunrider but she’ll have to really work to break through zannahs defense.
Don’t know sebatyne that well but I really wish they could add sebatyne in a vs vid.
Corran horn
Really tough call between plo koon vs kam solusar.
Malgus, even before his return in swtor after the eternal throne dlc.
@Emperor Vowrawn I can agree with most of these but I think you're sleeping on Darth Krayt. Exar could probably handle Krayt w/ Vong infection but late Legacy Krayt wouldn't fall that easily. Plus Krayt did go up against Abeloth at the same time Luke Skywalker did.
Emperor Vowrawn okay, but what about pre sith ritual kun, when he was in his own body??? In terms of force abilities I could probably see kun taking the slight edge due to plethora of sith sorcery spells, though I think krayt in terms of power and shatter point shortens the gap between the two. As for lightsaber combat, especially if kun uses his “oh so special” saberstaff, I give it to krayt, his use of niman just looked more refine than kuns.
It is so disheartening that the Star Wars "canon" incorporated Bane almost immediately, but left Zannah behind. She's such a cool character with so much potential for stories. And, honestly, it's pretty fucking cool that the first successful rule of 2 application was a lithe, slender woman beating an angry, physically imposing old guy.
But oh well. The mouse only likes its female characters when they're perfect and without any flaws. Just another of many reasons to ignore post-Disney Star Wars.
I actually thought Grievous was going to win before I started playing the video. Very good analysis of both as well, particularly Zannah! A good matchup indeed!
Not going to lie, this one has been bouncing around my head because of the outlandish fighting styles compared to most other lightsaber duelests.
Awesome as always! I’m rooting for Zannah from the start.
Beautiful collaboration guys, thank you!
Zannah is like Dark Side Satele/Bastilla. Limited in physical abilities, but enormous in force abilities. And double bladed lightsaber.
Im super glad you're back! That said, I'm kinda bummed you keep using the same jedi/sith. I'd love to see some njo characters like Saba Sabstyne(dont think I spelled that right) or tenel ka. Everyone on the verses council seems to shy away from characters from this time period, and I think you're missing a huge amount of potential there. Again, I'm glad you're back and I'm excited for the rest of season 7!
I think the problem is that a lot of background NJO characters don't have a lot of feats to them to actually develop interesting fight videos without relying on heavy speculation.
I would love a vid with Tenel Ka
Hopefully they make videos of something else cause starwars they have no clue and make garbage videos
Although I have many grievances with stuff regarding Zannah, "easily turned away" is inaccurate. As in the situation referenced Bane got his force shield up but it still pushed him so hard into a wall it knocked the air from his lungs and it's overall energy turned the bystander into pulp.
I was soooo ready for another versus video where you guys underestimate Zannah lol
We need more matchups with jedi from the njo
I have plans. :)
@@EvanNova95 can't wait to see what's next !
EvanNova95
Palpatine: Good. Goooooooood.
30:11 did y'all just use shak ti to do the pickachu meme?
Pretty sure that was just a coincidence
To this day I can't tell you how refreshing it is to get a video from you guys.
Zannah: So I'm going to fight a non force using cyborg with asthma? This is just sad.
Grievous: *Drops down infront of her out off nowhere and activates his four lightsabers* hello there.
Zannah: ...Bane I'm scared!
Zannah: hippity hoppity your brain is now my property- *proceeds to use force madness*
Lol or just electrocute.but ya zanna would kill grieves in 2 mins
@@jonmurray4652 2 Minute is actually long for a lightsaber duel.
I mean some of the duel are not even a minute Lol.
Also its 2003 grievous so i disagree.
And who the hell is “grieves”
You two are excellent writers. creatively analyzing two fighters based on the material is an art form you both have mastered. I hope one day to see you analyze real world combat scenarios past or present. I look forward to your future efforts in your chosen genre.
I don't agree. I'm not convinced she would be able to use her spells to begin with, considering how fast the bot can be. But even if she manages to do so, her spell of fear and madness have never left an opponent completely comatose; sure, shreiking, scared and susceptible to attacks, but not incapable of attacking themselves. Now I'm not sure what a 'apesh*t' grevious would look like, but I have a hard time picturing zannah handling a flaying cyborg
mani firsofminame You’re underestimating the power of the dark side.
What about the black tendrils of darkside energy she can summon that can literally disintegrate flesh and metal tho
Darth Zannah was Dark Lord of the Sith. General Greivous was always meant to be a thug. He's hired help.
There's no real situation where he defeats a Sith Lord.
@@nwobw You clearly don't know his lore then cause he's a lot more than just a thug. The show really did him dirty and it's only because they said and I quote "we wanted a mustache twirling villain". Grievous's entire fighting style is based on prevent force users from being able to focus on use the force. He's got strength and speed on her. He can attack 20 times in one second and knows all fighting forms down to a t. Plus he's got plenty of experience in fighting force users since that's primarily the type of people he fights and is a known and feared Jedi killer. I'm not saying she can't beat him but he wouldn't get stomped just cause she's a Dark Lord of the sith.
@@KanekiKen-fc3qo I'm quite familiar with the EU and Canon versions of Greivous. Sidious and Dooku valued him as a weapon. Nothing more.
And I like Grievous.
But Darth Zannah was a full fledged member of the Rule of Two.
It would be a great fight, Greivous is not taking out a Rule of Two Sith Lord.
If you understand character archetypes and the place they occupy in stories, this is obvious.
Thank the force the versus series is back!
I love the versus videos by all the Council members. Team ups are even better
It’s been a very, very long time since Evan and Matt made a collaboration matchup. Well done you two well done 👍
If Zannah was a Darth during the Old Republic Era, we wouldn’t be calling her Darth Zannah.
*We’d be calling her “Mommy”.*
Pretty good video, Evan! Your versus series was one of my inspirations to make my own versus series on my UA-cam channel. Keep up the good work!
Wow as I was watching I thought you were going to side with Grievous and it made me sad. This was very well constructed and I gotta agree. I feel like zannah gets more hate than she deserves. Also although we never see her using lightning I feel it is within her capabilities especially later in her career. It’s such a staple of the sith Arsenal that I feel all rule of two would at least have sufficient knowledge of how to do it to be able to teach it to their apprentice.
Yooooo it’s been years since I’ve visited this channel. I was in elementary school the last time I watched a video from here. Glad you’ve returned!
One thing Darth Tyranus did not prepare Grievous for: Sith sorcery. Not too shabby, dude.
This is the type of fight that gets my gears grinding... and blood pumping... it's a oddball yet fun match.
Congrats on 100K subscribers Evan!
Been watchin’ since your react/thoughts on Dragonball Absalon Episode 1 & 2 videos.
Wish they were still up, brought to light things I didn’t notice my 1st watch through that micro series.
Is that "Ratchet & Clank : Going Commando" music I hear in the background? Been a while since I've heard that :)
So general grievous is basically taskmaster from marvel comics, got it.
SPECTACULAR having you back!
Haven't seen Grey Jedi in a while,love the collaboration! Hope you guys do more.
I love the Ratchet and Clank theme in the background.
I have an idea: the Battle of the Usurpers;.
Darth Malgus, the False Emperor, vs Arcann, Tyrant of the Eternal Throne. Would that be a good battle?
Spoilers for anyone who hasn't watched the whole video (you've been warned):
Good thing I didn't give a pre-watch prediction, because I'd've been DEAD wrong!! I honestly wouldn't have thought Zannah's spells were enough to take down Grievous, though not discard it as a possibility for it to happen (slim odds, IMO).
Great video by you, Mr. 95, as well as Mr. 91. Keep up the great work & hope y'all are staying safe in spite of this Covid-19 bullshit!!
U shouldn't think when u don't know cause if think grieves can beat zanna then grieves can beat palpatine
This may have been better in a vs short, I really don't see any way Grievous could withstand Zannah spells, considering that she considered that being able to wake up a few days afterward after a spell that explicitly wasn't even at full power was proof enough that Set Harth had the potencial to become a rule of two sith lord.
The only one who has been shown to break free of her spells of madness, and not without difficulty was her master, who fully expected it and has great resistance toward mental power, as seen when he was the only sith of the brotherhood who could fully resist Khan's influence.
Grievous has none of those advantages, he isn't a force sensitive, he has never seen sith sorcery (if we are ignoring TCW) and it would most likely be something that Dooku and Sidious would want to hold back from him.
1.She would need to do that before Grievous guts her not really happening if Asajj couldn't do it who is basically Zannah but better
2. Again as above^
3. Grievous does have something Bane lacks ridicoulous speed to slaughter Zannah before she can say a word
The problem with this is Evan was most primarily interested in the Martial Arts comparison which, if focused on exclusively in a short, would have slanted things out of Zannah's favor. It may be longer and more drawn out the way we did it, but it wound up maintaining the more objective overall verdict.
@@GreyJedi91 Still though if force wielder that are faster and more skilled than Zannah couldn't use the Force on Grievous while he is on top of them I am not sure Zannah could she has no feats on contending with people like Grievous I wouldn't even consider Bane as skilled or as fast as Grievous
@@GreyJedi91 Still an amazing video, and I must admit that Zannah winning a versus series episode for once is rather satisfying as the darth bane trilogy is quite possibility my favorite piece of the extended universe
@@Redoren966 Saying that Zannah is a lesser Ventress is selling her short in my opinion. Unlike her, she was a true rule of two sith lord who proved her might by besting Darth Bane, something I believe Ventress would have no hope in accomplishing.
Wow. This was a blast from the past
Pretty good video. Nice editing and visual especially and the verdict was fairly sound. Good stuff.
Honestly this comes down to opinion. I don't view Zannah on the same level as Kenobi for being a defensive duelist and the ergonomics of her weapon are another factor in how she fairs here. I can totally see how people can draw a conclusion she would take a slight majority for the fact they think that she will be able to pull off her mental manipulation or sorcery before getting overwhelmed. I totally respect that opinion and the possibility is definitely there.
However, in my opinion, this will not happen before she gets cut down. I believe, despite the possibility for her to stall time for a mind attack, Grievous would not allow her to get any openings by virtue of a completely endless stream of lightsaber strikes. Take for example what he was doing to Shaak Ti in the microseries Hypori battle when she was singled out and the output he had against Kenobi in the ROTS Novelisation. Shaak Ti is not a primarily defensive duelist but she was overwhelmed relatively quickly and it took everything Kenobi had and more in order to successfully keep up with the attack. Zannah will be struck down imo 6-4.
Its debatable, due to how strong Zannah is in the force, she might just do what Mace Windu did in the clone war 2003 show before and force crush Grevious' chest and end the fight just like that. However, if Grevious manages to close the gap and get into a lightsaber fight, and not give her the chance to use the force, then he might be able to brute force his way to defeat her. Its debatable, in my opinion, it depends on what kind of battlefield. If it is open plains/area, Zannah can see Grevious coming in from a mile away and just ragdoll him with the force. However, if it is in some enclosed area like a cruiser wreckage on Hypori, underground sewers, or the corridors on a starship, then I'd say Grevious has the chance to close in and butcher her before Zannah can react.
I see your opinion as a very real possibility but it basically comes down to this whenever Zannah faces pretty much anyone, can she hold them off long enough to use her sith spells or force abilities and is that person susceptible to her spells of madness? If so then she wins, if they dont work then she loses due to her lack of offensive capabilities without her force powers
@@raultejada2588 Yes
Man u are dumb so you think grieves could beat palpatine cause zanna is much stronger then palpatine
@@jonmurray4652 You're an idiot if you think Zannah is more powerful than Palpatine.
Been about a day since this matchup was posted and after reading some comments, it got me thinking of some matchups.
Kar Vastor vs Lord Nyax (2 Juggernauts. 1 corrupted by nature, the other by machines)
Darth Bane vs Zayne Carrick (the question of hax overcoming a mismatch of power and skill)
Cade Skywalker vs Kyle Katarn (both have custom blasters and both have skill in light and dark side abilities)
Darth Krayt (Vong infected) vs Darth Vader
Cade vs Darth Caedus (the Skywalker's anti-hero vs the Skywalker's anti villain)
Thon vs Yarael Poof (if this is a mismatch, Poof is Robot Chicken version). I seriously can't think of a good matchup for Thon or Poof.
@@Fulcron13 I know about it. Why do you ask?
Sidious vs Krayt
Good job buddy! I’ve been waiting for this video for over 2 years now!
Greyjedi has a soothing voice, man. Would love to see him start uploading again.
I wasn't notified of any of these! I didn't even see the blue dot next to your name on the subscriptions list! I've got some catching up to do!
How about Roron Corobb vs Asaak Dan? Both are quite obscure, but I believe we do know enough about their respective eras and they are quite unique in a physical sense, which might be interesting to talk about...
@Emperor Vowrawn probably true, I was just thinking who might be a cool match-up against Master Dan, and as he is very obscure, I founf that very tricki, as most are either too powerful or not powerful enough or have more fleshed out characterisation.
Great video, good work Evan and Matt.
Some versus suggestions:
Darth Bane vs Oppo Rancisis
Lord Hoth vs Mace Windu
Darth Sion vs Qui-Gon Jinn
Yoda vs Lumiya
Exar Kun vs Darth Caedus(One of the potential matchups you had for the VS Series season 4 Finale)
Darth Malak vs Darth Maul(TCW)[or any version really, to try and keep it balanced]
As much as I'd like to see him in a Versus Series, as Darth Sion can't die, that's not really an option. They have mentioned it's possible, I'm not sure Qui-Gon could subdue him in such a way.
Side note: No one has ever tried beheading him, do you think he could survive that?
Bane stomps. Oppo can definitely throw his opponent a curveball with his alien physiology and extra limbs, but those won't be anything more than targets to a juggernaut like Bane and Oppo's focus on passive Force powers doesn't really do him any favors in this contest against Bane's sheer willpower. Throw in Bane's roundly superior feats of speed, endurance, etc. and there's no way the poor snakeman slithers out of this alive.
Not enough data on Hoth. Nothing he's done conclusively places him anywhere near Windu's level anyway.
I'd say Sion. Jinn is likely on par as a lightsaber duelist, but is a less aggressive Force user and Sion can literally will himself back to life if he gets struck down which makes this a countdown to Jinn's death as his stamina isn't going to outdo Sion's tenacity.
Yeah, no. This is a clever idea and on paper the Dark Lady's lightwhip makes this a logistically challenging fight, but Lumiya gets shoved aside pretty quickly by Yoda's superior Force power or is straight-up speedblitzed. Grandmaster Luke was usually holding back against Lumiya, and Yoda is arguably as fast as well as a much smaller target.
Caedus is definitely more powerful with a vast knowledge of the Force and his speed feats and Black Knight-like resilience outweigh a glass cannon like Kun, but Kun's bag of ancient Sith tricks, unorthodox approach to the lightsaber and OP-as-fuck amulet make this far from a sure thing. I'd say Caedus takes 7/10, though.
Hmmm.... good matchup. I'm favoring TCW Maul on the back of his greater willingness to use Force powers compared to his TPM incarnation, along with better physical performance and a more well-rounded skillset compared to Malak's all-in Juyo offense. However, Malak's Sith sorcery and other Force abilities still make this a hard call.
Bane stomps
Hoth is hard to qualify
Sion outlasts. Literally can't die
Yoda. Wouldn't the lightwhip tangle against a small target like Yoda?
Kun is the superior swordsman and trickster. But Caedus is the more rounded force user. Leaning on Kun because Hax.
Oh dear god Malak stomps.
@@robgeorge4581 I'm surprised you think Malak stomps. TCW/Son of Dathomir Maul isn't his martial peak, but he isn't exactly a scrub.
@@wristofkings Didn't think about Son of Dathomir stuff. Basically thought about Darth Maul when he fought Kenobi on Madalore.
Just thinking that Malak is more skilled and more powerful. Blasts Maul with Force Lightning, Stuns him with force stun or potentially pulls out Sith Sorcery.
Son of Dathomir Maul is a lot closer though.
Now here's a matchup I'd never expect.
Finally a legitimately interesting star wars vs
Nice I kinda felt like Grievous had this but it could go either which way.
Some suggestions I have that be cool to see
-Kreia/Darth Traya vs Qui Gon Jinn
-Yoda vs Emperor Vitiate/Valkorion
-Darth Krayt vs Exar Kun
-Galen Marek and Darth Vader vs Darth Revan and Darth Malek
-Darth Nihilus vs Obi Wan Kenobi
44:45 “Except for that one time.”
😂😂😂😂
Zannah crushes Grievous' chest and Grievous can't do anything. Zannah wins, no doubt.
Geryjedi91 coming in clutch with the surprise comeback👍👍👍👍
Grey's voice is so damn soothing.
Darth Zannah is indeed a Very scary foe. Due to her gifts in Sith Sorcery which many ppl even Jedi and sith could not hope to overcome
Wasn't expecting this for a while.
great fight as always may the force be with u both
Congratulations on reaching 100.000 subscribers Evan, I really enjoyed your videos and if you happened to see this comment, I just wanna say keep up the good work.😁 And as always l, May the Force be with you.
Going to guess who wins before I watch the entire video. Zannah wins. If I am wrong then oof
Holy crap. Knew you were working on this matchup but didn't know it was a GreyJedi91 collab. And for this to come out so soon after posting your list of top Battlemasters. Going into this, Im split (but leaning on Zannah). On the one hand, Zannah mindfucks Greivous hard. On the other hand, Greivous as a swordsman terminates Zannah. Blade binding, 4 lightsabers, integration of unarmed combat, and RNG? Yeah Zannah is a form 3 master, but logistically she is a bit different than Kenobi. Also, Zannah (like Bane) can have a bad time against opponents outside of her knowledge base. And a 4 blade RNG Machine Terminator is def out of Zannah's experience.
11:19 That artwork of Grevious is awesome.
13:10 I would argue you left out a big Grevious reaction feat. IG 100-Magnaguards according to the ROTS novelization can react just under light speed. Since Greivous can easily outperform them, its safe to assume Grevious has reactions>>>Magnaguards so he likely has light speed reactions if not FTL reactions.
18:43 Yeah no one will disagree with you on this.
26:45 Everyone knows Lus-Ma is the most rare lightsaber technique. Its like Pot of Greed. OP but no one knows what it actually is.
36:05 Interesting discussion and points on the difference of Zannah and Kenobi as form 3 masters. And kind of why she has a bad time against Grevious. Yes Zannah has dealt with style shifting tactics before, but not at the speeds Grevious does it. Yes her efficient technique can keep up with Grevious like Kenobi can, but her need to maintain her rhythm is something that Grevious can disrupt.
37:45 Thank you for addressing the weapon logistics. The limited range of movements of the double bladed lightsaber is a bad matchup against omni directional 4 std lightsabers. Im not saying Zannah can't stall a bit and hold off Grevious is the short term, but her def will break before Grevious gives into fatigue or frustration and Zannah counters.
49:35 Yeah, the Sith sorcery is where Grevious is going to have an awful time. He might have a high degree of willpower, but he's not prepared or mentally stable enough to handle that technique. This matchup is not a question of Zannahs ability to win with this ability, its her odds of landing the ability.
51:50 Agreed. Zannah's spells viability really depends on the person who its used on.
53:30 Good example but I don't feel its the same as Grevious hammering Zannah with 4 blades. But yeah, her ability to multi task between lightsaber combat and Sith sorcery did improve a lot.
59:00 Great arguments overall and Zannah winning by mindfuck makes a lot of sense. She probably would pull of the spell before Grevious would overload her to death.
Well edited and argued video. A solid breakdown of Grevious that is quite different from Jensaarai1's. GreyJedi91 and your style def shows even in a collab with Evan. Makes we wonder about Exar Kun vs Darth Bane though.
Exar Kun Vs. Darth Bane is coming, I promise.
I don't think Zannah can win any way before Grievous kills her
@@Jensaarai1 Still have hope for the promised day.
I'm 40 min in and i get the feeling that they're building grievous up only to tear him down at the end.
Edit: I was right
Hey Evannova95 could you do some ranking videos for sith and sith lords
two points
1) while you're right that Zannah's victories on Tython were overblown a bit by many, keep in mind she was only 20 there and that this should be a comparison on them at their peak (so at least 10 years later).
2) I understand you're attempting to make this analysis conservative based on the evidence, but there is also a difference between "she lacked the ability to do X" vs "she has never been shown to do X". just because she didn't use sith lightning in the books doesn't mean she can't, merely that an ideal time to do so never presented itself where other tactics wouldn't have worked better.
aside from that, solid analysis. more or less what my thoughts were on the matter.
Wise point
Awesome matchup and vid. How you’ve been well Evan. May the Force be with you.🙏
*starts video
God I hope they don't use Grevious from the horrendous CGI Clone Wars Show DX
OH SNAP MY BOIS EVAN AND GREYJEDI ARE BACK!!!!
Guess who's back, back again evan's back, go tell a friend ahh
Awesome verses series can't wait for more
Congrats on 100K Evan!
Bro im still a huge fan plz keep them coming if you need versus ideas i be happy to let you know who should fight who keep it up dude🤙🏽
HELLO THERE!!!!
As much as of a favorite of Darth Zannah, I think general Grevious would destroy her, but thanks to Sith magic and the force by Zannah’s skills and abilities.
Lol if zanna had no ability she would still kill grieves cause without his cybernetic suit he is a brain and heart in a bacta tank
*Evan uploads twice in a single week*
A surprise to be sure, but a welcome one.
Very creative matchup. Not random at all
Great video as always!
Out of curiosity, would you ever consider doing a video featuring Lord Kaan as one of the contestants? I’ve heard there isn’t a ton of concrete info on his combat abilities, so I understand if the answer is no, but I’m certainly curious as to how he would actually stack up against the other proper Sith Lords.
Hard to say. There is a decent amount of info on his Force abilities, but his physical and martial talents would require ALOT of assumptions.Plus, we've never really seen him in a fight so we don't have much to draw on.
EvanNova95 That makes sense! Well, if you ever do decide to do an analysis on him in a versus or “how powerful was...” episode I’ll be sure to check it out. Thanks Evan!
I think there is a big difference between Zannah never being shown using force lightning, and her not having the ability. It's never been stated that she's *not capable* of using force lightning, and in fact I'd say it can be heavily assumed that she does possess the ability. Bane states her potential in the force surpasses his own, she can do things with the force he can't even attempt, and she's a master of sith sorcery. Sith Lightning is just the simplest form of sith sorcery.
She almost certainly had the ability; she just wasn't inclined to use it unlike some other Sith.
Fantastic video and a match-up I am glad to see! Would be curious to see y'all use Kreia at some point.
I can't speak for GreyJedi91 but I myself am considering using her in Season 8. Just a matter of finding an interesting opponent.
@@EvanNova95 Think Kreia has some very interesting options to fight against with her unique skillset. Would be fascinated to see how a match between her and Dooku or Lumiya would pan out possibly.
@@zachlina4812 Dooku is too much for her I think, but Lumiya, Zannah or An'ya Kuro could all be potentially interesting fights.
@@wristofkings An'ya vs Darth Traya would be fun to see. Same thing with Lumiya.
A’sharad Hett vs Agen Kolar. Lucien Draay vs Antares Draco. Quinlan Vos and Tholme vs Darth Vader ( pre cyborg) .
as for Zannah you have to realize it was her thinking and reacting that helped bane and her escape tython from the several jedi masters.
By knowing the location of one blade, you automatically know the location of the second. - lord Kaseim brotherhood of darkness to lord bane of the banite sith
i love ur vids Evan i've been watching them since 2015 and i love grey jedis vids to
Can you use depa billaba in one of your matchups?
Keep going with this great content!