When I was a boy, maybe 6, I lived across the street from another boy named "Set" ... his name was Seth too, he just couldn't say the "th", so we called him Set. Next door to Set lived Bobby, who's dad was an old hippie. On the other side of Bobby lived Brian, who lived with his religious grandmother. Now one sad day Set's cat got run over in the street. Really made him cry hard, his parents took the cat and Set into the backyard to bury it. I saw Brian and his grandmother, so I walked over and asked her - why did this happen? She gave me the standard god noise, that the cat was in heaven now and all that. I didn't understand at all, old people said Santa this and Easter bunny that and god the other thing, I thought they were all just stories they told kids. Later that day I saw Bobby with his old hippie dad, and I asked his father the same question: Why did this happen? He just sadly shook his head and said "Shit happens, sometimes there isn't any reason" As much as a six year old boy could know, it was the first really profound thing an adult had ever said to me.
I listen to a lot of podcasts and this is easily my favorite. Seth has an amazing ability to tell a story and the clear voice that you never get tired of hearing. As someone that tends to focus on the negative, this podcast somehow manages to put me in a great mood and makes me feel better about the world.
As I listen to this. It strikes me how AMAZING it is that I live in an age where these words are spoken, out loud, through radio to the masses. I'm a man of science. I've known the workings of the world since I was a child. But over 5 billion out of 7,1 billion humans are religious. Those 5 billion humans are WRONG. Makes you feel sick right? Humans have finally reached the maturity to begin training the masses in REALITY. Everything happens because of how the universe WORKS.
Last week my dad realized at 4 a.m he was missing his glasses and after searching the entire house he looked in his truck. He came back in smiling and said "I guess everything happens for a reason, cause I found them and if I hadn't of gone out there I never would have known I left the lights on in the truck" I said, the only reason this happened is because you're forgetful, nothing more and nothing less...ugh
LOL 9:55 My mom says things like, "Thank you, Jesus." if she gets a good parking space. I'm thinking, really? Divine forces intervened so you could walk a few less feet to get to the store entrance?
Man Jesus is all about doing the smallest things like that parking spot thing, appearing on toast, making sure that things get done (which are done by people but Jesus is the one who gets the praise). But when stuff is out of control of actual people, suddenly Jesus ain't nowhere to be found (think accidents, natural disasters). Or god wants it that way. Hell, it's one of the worst confirmation biases I know. Stuff goes well (either randomly or thanks to human proficiency) - "THANK YOU CHEESUS!"; something goes badly - "it's all a part of gods plan!!!11!". Whatever happens, everything is because and proof of god! You had coffee this morning? Well god wanted you to. Thank him for the beans etc. You don't drink coffee? God.
"God has his reasons. God made this for a reason." I've had some bad things happen in my life and being told that God had these terrible things happen in his plan for my life made me turn away from my faith. My tragedy became a blessing in someone else's life.
The phrase that makes me want to throat punch someone is when I hear someone say..”God will not give you more than you can handle” or “You are special because God selected you for this difficult task/challenge”. Having a child born with multiple disabilities and neuromuscular disease was the greatest challenge and most heart wrenching experience of my life. My son has been through countless surgeries, and health issues over the past 43 years. My heart breaks daily for the struggles he endures daily and when people come up with these platitudes, I just about lose my mind….it’s all I can do to restrain from causing them physical harm.
i'm 14 seconds in and CAN'T WAIT to hear this topic "everything happens for a reason" was the first nail in the coffin that set me on my path to deconversion
When I was truly depressed and things did not go my way, I would sometimes quote the words of Eustacia Vye in Thomas Hardy's "The return of the native": "I could have been much, yet I have been slighted, blighted and crushed by forces beyond my control".
I can't remember where I heard it, but I've always thought the phrase "Everything has a reason, but not everything has a purpose" pretty much sums it up. It's simple, elegant & best of all, it makes sense!
"I can't bring myself to believe the special stories that have been made up about our relationship to the universe. They seem to be Too Local, Too Simple, Too connected, Too Provincial, The Earth! One of the aspects of God came to the earth! But when you look at what's out there, it just isn't in proportion." Richard Feynman
I like to use the expression, "Lack of planning or act of stupidity" to describe accidents. Reasons for illness are genetic predisposition combined with environmental factors, bad diet, refusal to go for annual check-ups, refusal to act when given medical/physiotherapy instructions, lack of hygiene, and crappy medical care. Please take care of yourselves. You're all you have.
There's a quote that I absolutely love that came from a Facebook meme: "Everything happens for a reason. And sometimes that reason is that we're stupid and make bad choices." I'm not sure I like the implication of stupidity, but good, intelligent people can make bad choices and bad things happen because of that. It's not on par with young women being held as slaves or a darling girl having cancer. I find the platitude insulting and lacking in any empathy. If people are going to say that with such arrogant certainty, the *least* they could do is continue to pull things out of their asses and tell me just what that reason is!
Human trafficking and Children with Cancer the top 2 on my list when talk to arrogant idiots about their imaginary friend.You would think that those 2 reasons would be enough for god to get off the couch.In other words you have better morals then(god).
I come from a family touched by chronic conditions in me and terminal conditions in family. Even though I'm out of Catholicism for like 20 years now, I still had other silly beliefs. But what kind of all-powerful, all loving god-Universe/whatever would let something like this happen to good people? What kind of god would do this to good people? I've heard Seth say that hard times reveal a person's character, but if I hadn't gone through all of this, would I really have needed to be that creative, resourceful, compassionate, generous (as much as I reasonably can) person? Is that character and morality innate or learned?
Of course everything in this world happens for a reason, otherwise everything would remain stationary and unchanging. Those reasons, however, are not supernatural, just physics and nature.
I have always been an atheist. At no time in my life did I believe in a god or any supposed higher power. I was very lucky that I did not grow up in a religious environment, it was a neutral environment. Religion was never discussed even at Christmas, which I always thought of as some sort of winter festival. It is comforting to know that, at last I am part of a growing mindset. Let me tell you, it has been a lonely life journey feeling like I could be persecuted for my world view.
Seth- wonderful podcast and thankyou for all that you do. I appreciate you and all your hard work! I don't think people realize how much effort it takes to do something like this all the time, you're doing a fantastic job :) -Brooke
Excellent program . Believing events are supernatural is directly related to the religiosity of a country and its acceptance of science. Europe is by no means perfect but I just cannot imagine a journalist here asking somebody if they "thanked the lord" they had survived a tornado (or any natural disaster) or a Grandmother of a girl who had been abducted for nearly 20 years asking with complete sincerity "how can you doubt miracles now?" when they were rescued because of their shouting for help?
Ran into a vein of this "reasoning" less than 24 hours ago, unfortunately. A couple of Jehovah's Witnesses came a-knocking during my violin practice; they complimented me on my playing and then proceeded to share a pamphlet on how all the upheaval, destruction, misfortune, etc. in the world has come about by Satan's design. Ugh. Unable to turn away two smiling, motherly women, I listened politely and even agreed when they asked if they could stop by again next week. Double ugh. :(
Oh I love Jehovah's Witnesses. Inviting them into my house for a chat is always fun. Kicking them out when I get bored is fun too. They get so flustered and confused when I make them go off script.
Re: Cat - Fish - You don't know cats! I have a cat that jumps onto a countertop and then examines each item sitting there, one at a time, until she chooses the one she will STEAL! She then pushes it onto the floor, jumps down, and makes off with it. She's done car keys, glasses, pens, candies, and who knows what else, still missing. Great show!
The goldfish thing happened to me with my beta fish when I was maybe seven. We found him on the floor after a thunderstorm, and I picked him up to flush him, and then he jumped out of my hand. Scared the crap outta me. Also I lost it when you said, "Fishy heaven".
Good point Seth, All other gods have been questioned, rejected, and/or found unworthy for worship for the one god that any person believes in OR brainwashed into.... nailed it! Well, unless they (they=anybody on earth) weren't eduacated on the other 1,000+ religions that have come and gone in the history of humanity.
You have a good point...........but in one to one dialog with some believers you can tell whether it is worth continuing debating evidence or not.......but I certainly agree from a public standpoint it needs to be debated before ideas like creationism get to claim their ideas as on par with scientific data in the classrooms........
continued the objective sense is if all properties are the same then it is the same object. as a object is defined by it's properties and we can agree on what properties it has. subjective the wood chair is the same as a tree. I think it is the same thing because I have a personal experience where I associate the two together. but if we measured them, they have different properties and dimensions.
I used to toy with the idea of "everything happens for a reason" but nowadays when I don't get something I wanted, I say "Maybe it's for the best that didn't happen." I admit it's a related statement, but it excludes a master plan and includes the uncertainty of "maybe". Because I don't know the outcome of something that didn't happen, obviously. Why do I say it at all as an atheist? It gives a certain level of comfort in the face of the disappointment of not getting something. "Maybe it's for the best. Let's not dwell on it and instead look towards what we'll do next." I should add I only use this phrase for small things. Never would I use it in the context of people becoming homeless or terror attacks or anything on those scales. More on the scale of "I'm looking for a new flat. I didn't get that one particular flat, but maybe a better flat will come along that I'll have a chance at now. All purely by chance and probabilities." This is a long post... I'll stop now, but I hope I made sense.
I think the confusion is between "reason" and "goal". Every event does have a reason/cause but may or may not be part of a goal/plan. Science can explain how cancer occurs but there is no goal, it's random and shit just happens.
and as for the 'law' and 'theory' statement at around the hour mark: I define a 'law' to be "a calculate-able prediction" and a 'theory' to be "a model explaining every known fact (fact: piece of data or information)" for example: The Law of Gravity: Fg=G×m1×m2÷r² The Theory of Gravity: All objects with mass will attract
I once opened the door to a similar situation, the man looked at me, smiled and said"Your not religious are you?" To which I replied "No." then have a good day and goodbye. I'm 6 foot medium build t shirt and jeans parted medium length brown hair. SO nothing about my appearance screams athiest but whatever the reason it saved me the time haha
I was an atheist for many years of my life. I know all the arguments and they are well founded and grounded in science. However I don't believe that's all we are. That's subjective but then again so much of reality is. The glass is half empty or half full. Both are true. :o)
Lot was warned to get out of Dodge but the rest of us don't get that same luxury? The Bible makes no sense. God makes no sense. There's comfort and then there's self-delusion. You decide.
Can't wait until next week's show on the Mormons. I'm an atheist now but even when I was a Christian, I thought the Mormon beliefs was a little crazy (I'm talking about the prophet Joseph Smith). Every Mormons I've encountered are extremely nice people. This includes the famous UA-camr Shay Carl (SHAYTARDS), Donnie and Marie, and David Archuletta of American Idol. Maybe it's less to do with their religion and more to do with the Mormon culture.
How will we ever progress, increase our knowledge and our ability to prepare for our future resistance if we shut the door with everything happens for a reason dictated by a higher power. I prefer to view happenings as this happened because of other previous events occurring within the natural flow of energy/matter. A continuum that exists with or without the invention of a supreme being.
I see your point. Imagination is not owned by humans. However we are able to eventually distinguish between reality and fantasy. When animals can do this we may have something to worry about. Thanks for your imput.:o)
31:00 "Once you realize there's no divine entity..." I find solace in the great humans who have died. Scientists, artists, writers, and MUSICIANS in particular (If there were a rock and roll hell, Randy Rhoads, John Bonham, Cliff Burton, and Bon Scott are making some kick ass music.) I wouldn't want to go to heaven and miss that.
Maybe if we had a word for 'reason' or 'cause' that wasn't also a verb, to reason and to cause. Btw, for the mormon episode you should get into contact with the guys from Thank God I'm Atheist, they're ex mormons from Salt Lake City in Utah and they're fun too.
One day, something shitty happened, I no longer remember what, because, you know,life. Anyway, my friend said "Everything happens for a reason" and without missing a beat I replied "Except when it doesn't." The LOOK I got not just from my friend but the other people around us was FANTASTIC! You'd have thought I'd kicked a dog in the head.
weather has a reason for doing everything it does, and in the future, we might be able to predict with actual 90% accuracy to everything it will do, but that will require knowledge of nearly every particle of air and things that affect it.
If there were any shred of actual randomness anywhere in the universe, it would eventually defeat all the order in the universe. But if the universe is purely deterministic, then the appearance of randomness is not a characteristic of the universe but of the limited perception of the observer.
You cannot defeat us Athirsts. Our beliefs have granted us transcendence beyond our mortal boundaries. We do not suffer thirst. We do not require drink.
If believing in something hard enough makes it manifest in real life, then I'd better start believing that I will win $1 million tomorrow. The reality is, I won't become a millionaire tomorrow, and you will not have an eternal life.
Man could only speculate. And man could only speculate the existence of a being who doesn't have to. Man created God, so he could have an explanation for things he didn't understand. Man created God, so he could have someone to comfort him when reality comes knocking. Man created God, perhaps most detestably, to control the mind of his fellow man.
thirdly sorry a mistake, I meant although the definitions are subjective as words are only syllables the definition themselves are not and we can test them.
My take on the phrase: it's common belief that history repeats itself and it's a bit puzzling because you'd think we'd carry the knowledge forward but knowledge evolution is a wild beast compared to physical evolution and it's also weird: Jesse James, a killer, a hero now... we throw fits over 7 people getting a school and seem passe about the 1500 who died in the Titanic disaster or look up "The day the clowns cried" -- very few know this tragedy because it's not "in".
I would agree.....there is not point in debating evidence with someone who has a presupposed position of claimed truth that is required to be impervious to evidence........when someone claims faith as a world view then it is the end of debate.........
If they return have them speak to their "Service Overseer." Ask to be placed on their "no call" list. That should keep 'em away from your place - at least within that particular congregation's microcosm.
;) But in all seriousness, my ex-gf, who converted to fundamentalist pentacostal while I was with her, made a post on FB the other day calling all "athirsts" to watch a Ray Comfort video. It was hilarious!
Religious ideas are worth debating because they have a history of being thrown into education as truth. Sure we can teach people about religion by making observations about it and teaching about all kinds of different religions, but not taught as truth. People do change their minds by the way. Some religious people have become atheists. There are some priests who are closet atheists. Of course some people are too rigid to change their minds, but not every religious person is that way.
Nobody could disagree with that, but it's not what most people mean when they say "Everything Happens For A Reason". THE GRAND PLAN is implied by religious people when they say the phrase.
I'd probably just re phrase the words to mean something slightly different. Everything happens for a reason. There are reasons for everything happening.
Best atheist responses to the fine-tuned universe: 1. We don’t know, but it certainly wasn’t God. 2. We don’t know, but it could be (insert unsupported speculation). 3. Because (insert personal subjective opinion). 4. That phenomenon is an illusion. 5. (Insert ad hominem toward theists.) Reply for a pm giving good arguments for Gods existence. P.S. with the fine-tuning argument I'm arguing from what I do know, not from what I don't know. (There’s a difference)
I know what you mean: ask them if they consider themselves to be protestants and watch them stare blankly at you-- at least the ones in Reno, NV did to me.. I had to tell them, "Look if you do not know what a protestant is, stop representing a protest religion. And they just said, "What do you mean by protestant? I said, "Well it has something to do with the word "protest" I think... hmmm... how about you go home and "google" it and they just walked away...
continued third time. look I'm going to make this clear and remove argument. I said at the start this is meaningless semantics so let me be clear. my definition of the same: when two objects share all properties therefore, objectively, we can both conclude that these gods are not the same. are we happy?
I hear a lot of atheist saying atheism is "just a lack of belief" and they go on to say "I just don't see the evidence" Well sometimes to find evidence, you need to actually look. Reply to this comment for a pm giving good scientific evidence for God.
Yup... .........God's will.........God works in mysterious ways..............but for the grace of God............... ....is like being in a debate that you can't defend your position so you say....... "hey look over there!" and while the person turns there head (you run away)
Right, they are different gods with some of the same properties. like a tv shares the property of a screen with a computer. Heres a thought experiment from philosophy, sadly I forget the author. imagine a floating sock in space, the sock gets worn out over time and we apply a patch. is it the same sock? now lets say it's had over 500 patches and non of the original material still exists. Is it the same sock? there two ways to use the word same, as I like philosophy I use the objective version
I guess you and the caller went completely different ways on the "cause". I think he was talking about if all cases had certain effects, there would be no freedom, everything would be predetermined. However, this is not the case, since, when it comes to very, very small scale of elementary particles, (as far as I understand... I don't really 8D ) same causes don't always have the same results. On the other hand, in LARGE scale - nothing changes - Universe is seen as "rock solid sphere".
You can say "I don't know", but you can't go on to say "But I know the Christian is wrong!" That would be implying you "do" know something. We only have 500 Characters here, that's why I wanted to do it in Pm. I have to go for a while anyway
When I was a boy, maybe 6, I lived across the street from another boy named "Set" ... his name was Seth too, he just couldn't say the "th", so we called him Set. Next door to Set lived Bobby, who's dad was an old hippie. On the other side of Bobby lived Brian, who lived with his religious grandmother.
Now one sad day Set's cat got run over in the street. Really made him cry hard, his parents took the cat and Set into the backyard to bury it.
I saw Brian and his grandmother, so I walked over and asked her - why did this happen? She gave me the standard god noise, that the cat was in heaven now and all that. I didn't understand at all, old people said Santa this and Easter bunny that and god the other thing, I thought they were all just stories they told kids.
Later that day I saw Bobby with his old hippie dad, and I asked his father the same question: Why did this happen? He just sadly shook his head and said "Shit happens, sometimes there isn't any reason"
As much as a six year old boy could know, it was the first really profound thing an adult had ever said to me.
I listen to a lot of podcasts and this is easily my favorite. Seth has an amazing ability to tell a story and the clear voice that you never get tired of hearing. As someone that tends to focus on the negative, this podcast somehow manages to put me in a great mood and makes me feel better about the world.
God is like the abusive spouse or parent that we cower from and plead with at the same time.
Heather on the Ardent Atheist often says: "Everything happens because of a reason." I like that statement much more.
Sometimes that reason is we make stupid fucking decisions.
As I listen to this. It strikes me how AMAZING it is that I live in an age where these words are spoken, out loud, through radio to the masses. I'm a man of science. I've known the workings of the world since I was a child. But over 5 billion out of 7,1 billion humans are religious. Those 5 billion humans are WRONG. Makes you feel sick right? Humans have finally reached the maturity to begin training the masses in REALITY. Everything happens because of how the universe WORKS.
Last week my dad realized at 4 a.m he was missing his glasses and after searching the entire house he looked in his truck. He came back in smiling and said "I guess everything happens for a reason, cause I found them and if I hadn't of gone out there I never would have known I left the lights on in the truck"
I said, the only reason this happened is because you're forgetful, nothing more and nothing less...ugh
LOL 9:55 My mom says things like, "Thank you, Jesus." if she gets a good parking space. I'm thinking, really? Divine forces intervened so you could walk a few less feet to get to the store entrance?
Man Jesus is all about doing the smallest things like that parking spot thing, appearing on toast, making sure that things get done (which are done by people but Jesus is the one who gets the praise). But when stuff is out of control of actual people, suddenly Jesus ain't nowhere to be found (think accidents, natural disasters). Or god wants it that way.
Hell, it's one of the worst confirmation biases I know. Stuff goes well (either randomly or thanks to human proficiency) - "THANK YOU CHEESUS!"; something goes badly - "it's all a part of gods plan!!!11!". Whatever happens, everything is because and proof of god!
You had coffee this morning? Well god wanted you to. Thank him for the beans etc. You don't drink coffee? God.
My mom says the same, praise god, thanks you beezuz....It just grinds my gears.
"God has his reasons. God made this for a reason." I've had some bad things happen in my life and being told that God had these terrible things happen in his plan for my life made me turn away from my faith. My tragedy became a blessing in someone else's life.
The phrase that makes me want to throat punch someone is when I hear someone say..”God will not give you more than you can handle” or “You are special because God selected you for this difficult task/challenge”. Having a child born with multiple disabilities and neuromuscular disease was the greatest challenge and most heart wrenching experience of my life. My son has been through countless surgeries, and health issues over the past 43 years. My heart breaks daily for the struggles he endures daily and when people come up with these platitudes, I just about lose my mind….it’s all I can do to restrain from causing them physical harm.
Love his smooth radio voice. its so cool.
i'm 14 seconds in and CAN'T WAIT to hear this topic
"everything happens for a reason" was the first nail in the coffin that set me on my path to deconversion
When I was truly depressed and things did not go my way, I would sometimes quote the words of Eustacia Vye in Thomas Hardy's "The return of the native": "I could have been much, yet I have been slighted, blighted and crushed by forces beyond my control".
I can't remember where I heard it, but I've always thought the phrase "Everything has a reason, but not everything has a purpose" pretty much sums it up. It's simple, elegant & best of all, it makes sense!
pretty strange, if doctors save a person they prays Jesus, if the don't they sue the doctors
Great point. Shouldn't they sue Jesus? Pathetic.
"I can't bring myself to believe the special stories that have been made up about our relationship to the universe. They seem to be Too Local, Too Simple, Too connected, Too Provincial, The Earth! One of the aspects of God came to the earth! But when you look at what's out there, it just isn't in proportion." Richard Feynman
I like to use the expression, "Lack of planning or act of stupidity" to describe accidents. Reasons for illness are genetic predisposition combined with environmental factors, bad diet, refusal to go for annual check-ups, refusal to act when given medical/physiotherapy instructions, lack of hygiene, and crappy medical care. Please take care of yourselves. You're all you have.
There's a quote that I absolutely love that came from a Facebook meme: "Everything happens for a reason. And sometimes that reason is that we're stupid and make bad choices." I'm not sure I like the implication of stupidity, but good, intelligent people can make bad choices and bad things happen because of that. It's not on par with young women being held as slaves or a darling girl having cancer. I find the platitude insulting and lacking in any empathy. If people are going to say that with such arrogant certainty, the *least* they could do is continue to pull things out of their asses and tell me just what that reason is!
Human trafficking and Children with Cancer the top 2 on my list when talk to arrogant idiots about their imaginary friend.You would think that those 2 reasons would be enough for god to get off the couch.In other words you have better morals then(god).
I come from a family touched by chronic conditions in me and terminal conditions in family. Even though I'm out of Catholicism for like 20 years now, I still had other silly beliefs. But what kind of all-powerful, all loving god-Universe/whatever would let something like this happen to good people?
What kind of god would do this to good people? I've heard Seth say that hard times reveal a person's character, but if I hadn't gone through all of this, would I really have needed to be that creative, resourceful, compassionate, generous (as much as I reasonably can) person? Is that character and morality innate or learned?
Of course everything in this world happens for a reason, otherwise everything would remain stationary and unchanging. Those reasons, however, are not supernatural, just physics and nature.
I agree, that the reasons are rarely wonderful personal reasons.
I have always been an atheist. At no time in my life did I believe in a god or any supposed higher power. I was very lucky that I did not grow up in a religious environment, it was a neutral environment. Religion was never discussed even at Christmas, which I always thought of as some sort of winter festival. It is comforting to know that, at last I am part of a growing mindset. Let me tell you, it has been a lonely life journey feeling like I could be persecuted for my world view.
A rabbi once said, God created man, then man returned the favor. I think that's still happening whether one is a believer or not.
Seth- wonderful podcast and thankyou for all that you do. I appreciate you and all your hard work! I don't think people realize how much effort it takes to do something like this all the time, you're doing a fantastic job :)
-Brooke
Excellent program . Believing events are supernatural is directly related to the religiosity of a country and its acceptance of science.
Europe is by no means perfect but I just cannot imagine a journalist here asking somebody if they "thanked the lord" they had survived a tornado (or any natural disaster) or a Grandmother of a girl who had been abducted for nearly 20 years asking with complete sincerity "how can you doubt miracles now?" when they were rescued because of their shouting for help?
How is there a pattern or answer to be found in some invisible, intangible, metaphysical being with no beginning or end? What the heck?
Ran into a vein of this "reasoning" less than 24 hours ago, unfortunately. A couple of Jehovah's Witnesses came a-knocking during my violin practice; they complimented me on my playing and then proceeded to share a pamphlet on how all the upheaval, destruction, misfortune, etc. in the world has come about by Satan's design. Ugh. Unable to turn away two smiling, motherly women, I listened politely and even agreed when they asked if they could stop by again next week. Double ugh. :(
One Of your Best Episodes Seth
Thank you for inspiring me Man
Oh I love Jehovah's Witnesses. Inviting them into my house for a chat is always fun. Kicking them out when I get bored is fun too. They get so flustered and confused when I make them go off script.
One of my favourite episodes so far.
Re: Cat - Fish - You don't know cats! I have a cat that jumps onto a countertop and then examines each item sitting there, one at a time, until she chooses the one she will STEAL! She then pushes it onto the floor, jumps down, and makes off with it. She's done car keys, glasses, pens, candies, and who knows what else, still missing. Great show!
The goldfish thing happened to me with my beta fish when I was maybe seven. We found him on the floor after a thunderstorm, and I picked him up to flush him, and then he jumped out of my hand. Scared the crap outta me. Also I lost it when you said, "Fishy heaven".
Good point Seth, All other gods have been questioned, rejected, and/or found unworthy for worship for the one god that any person believes in OR brainwashed into.... nailed it! Well, unless they (they=anybody on earth) weren't eduacated on the other 1,000+ religions that have come and gone in the history of humanity.
I'm not talking about "how" it came into being, I'm talking about the fine-tuning that went into it moments after the big bang.
You have a good point...........but in one to one dialog with some believers you can tell whether it is worth continuing debating evidence or not.......but I certainly agree from a public standpoint it needs to be debated before ideas like creationism get to claim their ideas as on par with scientific data in the classrooms........
continued
the objective sense is if all properties are the same then it is the same object. as a object is defined by it's properties and we can agree on what properties it has.
subjective
the wood chair is the same as a tree. I think it is the same thing because I have a personal experience where I associate the two together. but if we measured them, they have different properties and dimensions.
I used to toy with the idea of "everything happens for a reason" but nowadays when I don't get something I wanted, I say "Maybe it's for the best that didn't happen." I admit it's a related statement, but it excludes a master plan and includes the uncertainty of "maybe". Because I don't know the outcome of something that didn't happen, obviously.
Why do I say it at all as an atheist? It gives a certain level of comfort in the face of the disappointment of not getting something. "Maybe it's for the best. Let's not dwell on it and instead look towards what we'll do next."
I should add I only use this phrase for small things. Never would I use it in the context of people becoming homeless or terror attacks or anything on those scales. More on the scale of "I'm looking for a new flat. I didn't get that one particular flat, but maybe a better flat will come along that I'll have a chance at now. All purely by chance and probabilities."
This is a long post... I'll stop now, but I hope I made sense.
I believe everything just happens and if you can find good out of it, that's a bonus.
Keep up the good work TTA!!!!!
I think the confusion is between "reason" and "goal". Every event does have a reason/cause but may or may not be part of a goal/plan. Science can explain how cancer occurs but there is no goal, it's random and shit just happens.
and as for the 'law' and 'theory' statement at around the hour mark:
I define a 'law' to be "a calculate-able prediction"
and a 'theory' to be "a model explaining every known fact (fact: piece of data or information)"
for example:
The Law of Gravity: Fg=G×m1×m2÷r²
The Theory of Gravity: All objects with mass will attract
I would love to have a shirt or sweatshirt or night gown with the thinking atheist head with the light bulb on it
Thank you making this podcast!
I once opened the door to a similar situation, the man looked at me, smiled and said"Your not religious are you?" To which I replied "No." then have a good day and goodbye. I'm 6 foot medium build t shirt and jeans parted medium length brown hair. SO nothing about my appearance screams athiest but whatever the reason it saved me the time haha
I was an atheist for many years of my life. I know all the arguments and they are well founded and grounded in science. However I don't believe that's all we are. That's subjective but then again so much of reality is. The glass is half empty or half full. Both are true. :o)
I came across this podcast for a reason.
Lot was warned to get out of Dodge but the rest of us don't get that same luxury? The Bible makes no sense. God makes no sense. There's comfort and then there's self-delusion. You decide.
Can't wait until next week's show on the Mormons.
I'm an atheist now but even when I was a Christian, I thought the Mormon beliefs was a little crazy (I'm talking about the prophet Joseph Smith).
Every Mormons I've encountered are extremely nice people. This includes the famous UA-camr Shay Carl (SHAYTARDS), Donnie and Marie, and David Archuletta of American Idol. Maybe it's less to do with their religion and more to do with the Mormon culture.
How will we ever progress, increase our knowledge and our ability to prepare for our future resistance if we shut the door with everything happens for a reason dictated by a higher power. I prefer to view happenings as this happened because of other previous events occurring within the natural flow of energy/matter. A continuum that exists with or without the invention of a supreme being.
I see your point. Imagination is not owned by humans. However we are able to eventually distinguish between reality and fantasy. When animals can do this we may have something to worry about. Thanks for your imput.:o)
I replaced "Everything happens for a reason'" with, "Shit happens when you party naked". Great for a giggle!
31:00 "Once you realize there's no divine entity..." I find solace in the great humans who have died. Scientists, artists, writers, and MUSICIANS in particular (If there were a rock and roll hell, Randy Rhoads, John Bonham, Cliff Burton, and Bon Scott are making some kick ass music.)
I wouldn't want to go to heaven and miss that.
Worldwide. Hello there from the U K. :)
EVERYTHING DOES HAPPEN FOR A REASON!!!
It's called CAUSE AND EFFECT.
Because in my and everyone else's experience that has ALWAYS been the case.
Maybe if we had a word for 'reason' or 'cause' that wasn't also a verb, to reason and to cause. Btw, for the mormon episode you should get into contact with the guys from Thank God I'm Atheist, they're ex mormons from Salt Lake City in Utah and they're fun too.
Everything we do should happen because of reason.
Everything does happen for a reason, but usually it's because of cold harsh reality and not personal/warm and fuzzy reasons.
One day, something shitty happened, I no longer remember what, because, you know,life. Anyway, my friend said "Everything happens for a reason" and without missing a beat I replied "Except when it doesn't." The LOOK I got not just from my friend but the other people around us was FANTASTIC! You'd have thought I'd kicked a dog in the head.
A nugget to think about. If God is omniscient and knows everything that will happen, that would preclude the possibility of humans having free will.
weather has a reason for doing everything it does, and in the future, we might be able to predict with actual 90% accuracy to everything it will do, but that will require knowledge of nearly every particle of air and things that affect it.
If there were any shred of actual randomness anywhere in the universe, it would eventually defeat all the order in the universe. But if the universe is purely deterministic, then the appearance of randomness is not a characteristic of the universe but of the limited perception of the observer.
Last caller was really cool!
You cannot defeat us Athirsts.
Our beliefs have granted us transcendence beyond our mortal boundaries.
We do not suffer thirst. We do not require drink.
If believing in something hard enough makes it manifest in real life, then I'd better start believing that I will win $1 million tomorrow.
The reality is, I won't become a millionaire tomorrow, and you will not have an eternal life.
Man could only speculate.
And man could only speculate the existence of a being who doesn't have to.
Man created God, so he could have an explanation for things he didn't understand. Man created God, so he could have someone to comfort him when reality comes knocking. Man created God, perhaps most detestably, to control the mind of his fellow man.
"I got a cat" that was random lol
No offense Seth but I think the fish was thinking " F ing cat" ! Lol
thirdly sorry a mistake, I meant although the definitions are subjective as words are only syllables the definition themselves are not and we can test them.
You should do a show about the Boy Scouts drama.
Seth did a special "Get them while they are young". It could have been called"Get them before they are smart enough to call BULLSHIT"
nice talk, gave me lot of points
Ah good I can't wait for the episode of the problem of evil, looking forward to it. :)
My take on the phrase: it's common belief that history repeats itself and it's a bit puzzling because you'd think we'd carry the knowledge forward but knowledge evolution is a wild beast compared to physical evolution and it's also weird: Jesse James, a killer, a hero now... we throw fits over 7 people getting a school and seem passe about the 1500 who died in the Titanic disaster or look up "The day the clowns cried" -- very few know this tragedy because it's not "in".
IDK. We have the same needs as other people, but we have figured out ways to deal with those needs without invoking the supernatural.
I would agree.....there is not point in debating evidence with someone who has a presupposed position of claimed truth that is required to be impervious to evidence........when someone claims faith as a world view then it is the end of debate.........
If they return have them speak to their "Service Overseer." Ask to be placed on their "no call" list. That should keep 'em away from your place - at least within that particular congregation's microcosm.
11:30 Silly people. Life is easy. You just make it up as you go along. What makes it hard is religious pressure.
;) But in all seriousness, my ex-gf, who converted to fundamentalist pentacostal while I was with her, made a post on FB the other day calling all "athirsts" to watch a Ray Comfort video. It was hilarious!
Religious ideas are worth debating because they have a history of being thrown into education as truth. Sure we can teach people about religion by making observations about it and teaching about all kinds of different religions, but not taught as truth. People do change their minds by the way. Some religious people have become atheists. There are some priests who are closet atheists. Of course some people are too rigid to change their minds, but not every religious person is that way.
Threatening Hell to an atheist makes no sense.
Nobody could disagree with that, but it's not what most people mean when they say "Everything Happens For A Reason". THE GRAND PLAN is implied by religious people when they say the phrase.
Damn. I missed calling in for the Mormon show.
I love this podcast so fucking much!
Mario is great. Much love for Mario.
What's a Catholic's favorite 60s band?
Peter, Paul and Mary
@0:42:25
Even Pat Robertson knows that.. Or atleast that it has something to do with air temperature.
I'd probably just re phrase the words to mean something slightly different.
Everything happens for a reason.
There are reasons for everything happening.
45:27. Jesus, I'm sick of hearing those things!
Me too. I'm curious.
I have looked for evidence for a long time. If you have something I haven't heard, please tell me.
Best atheist responses to the fine-tuned universe:
1. We don’t know, but it certainly wasn’t God.
2. We don’t know, but it could be (insert unsupported speculation).
3. Because (insert personal subjective opinion).
4. That phenomenon is an illusion.
5. (Insert ad hominem toward theists.)
Reply for a pm giving good arguments for Gods existence.
P.S. with the fine-tuning argument I'm arguing from what I do know, not from what I don't know. (There’s a difference)
I know what you mean: ask them if they consider themselves to be protestants and watch them stare blankly at you-- at least the ones in Reno, NV did to me.. I had to tell them, "Look if you do not know what a protestant is, stop representing a protest religion. And they just said, "What do you mean by protestant? I said, "Well it has something to do with the word "protest" I think... hmmm... how about you go home and "google" it and they just walked away...
continued third time.
look I'm going to make this clear and remove argument. I said at the start this is meaningless semantics so let me be clear.
my definition of the same:
when two objects share all properties
therefore, objectively, we can both conclude that these gods are not the same.
are we happy?
Why does it have to be a pm? Is it something that you cannot reference here? This sounds highly suspicious.
you could always draw a pentacle on your front porch with sidewalk chalk...
I hear a lot of atheist saying atheism is "just a lack of belief" and they go on to say "I just don't see the evidence"
Well sometimes to find evidence, you need to actually look.
Reply to this comment for a pm giving good scientific evidence for God.
Yup...
.........God's will.........God works in mysterious ways..............but for the grace of God...............
....is like being in a debate that you can't defend your position so you say....... "hey look over there!" and while the person turns there head (you run away)
Yes, yes it is.
The fish story...hilarious!
Right, they are different gods with some of the same properties. like a tv shares the property of a screen with a computer.
Heres a thought experiment from philosophy, sadly I forget the author.
imagine a floating sock in space, the sock gets worn out over time and we apply a patch. is it the same sock? now lets say it's had over 500 patches and non of the original material still exists. Is it the same sock?
there two ways to use the word same, as I like philosophy I use the objective version
I guess you and the caller went completely different ways on the "cause".
I think he was talking about if all cases had certain effects, there would be no freedom, everything would be predetermined. However, this is not the case, since, when it comes to very, very small scale of elementary particles, (as far as I understand... I don't really 8D ) same causes don't always have the same results. On the other hand, in LARGE scale - nothing changes - Universe is seen as "rock solid sphere".
Go ahead.
You can say "I don't know", but you can't go on to say "But I know the Christian is wrong!"
That would be implying you "do" know something. We only have 500 Characters here, that's why I wanted to do it in Pm.
I have to go for a while anyway