I ran an “old” style Defender 90 TDi300 CSW for 25 years and changed to a New Defender 110 First Edition. 1st my 1996 Defender might have been crude but it never failed mechanically in 97000 miles, the only major issue it has was at 11 years old the chassis rotted away to dust. In 2020 I bought the D240 4cylinder diesel 110 First Edition - no mechanical issues despite what every one said I was letting myself in for BUT heaps and heaps of rattles and rain water leaks. In 2023 I changed it for a D250 90 HSE with the off road, air suspension and towing packs. It’s the first JLR product out of 15 since 1996 that has had a mechanical issue - the DPF failed at 11 months in and 10,000 miles but it was a known issue with a component in the system, annoying but the entire DFP system and oil and filters were changed free to me under warranty. It’s ran perfectly up to the failure and has done since the replacement. Of 12 Land and Range Rovers with air suspension I’ve owned over the years I’ve never had a problem with it and all have been heavily off roaded here in Scotland they have not been pampered school run/ shopping trolleys in my hands. I have many LR owning friends who have the same experience with their LRs BUT I also know people (and some are family members) who have had stupid problems with things like PHEV systems in a PHEV and failing cabin heating but none has felt the need to reject or sell their car. My sister ran a 2.7ltr TDv6 Range Rover Sport with minimal servicing and oil changing out to 340,000 miles with no failures of any kind, mechanical or air suspension………………
My wife and I have this very same conversation at least once a year. We are both in the automotive industry. My statement is , if you want to have fun and feel the experience of off road get a jeep. If you want to make it up the obstacles no question asked in comfort, land rover. Great video thank you for all yalls hard work.
@@UA-camuser1aa guess you haven’t seen the videos of the new Toyotas front diffs failing, or the suspension failing because they no longer have proper bump stops. Or those twin turbo motors seizing main bearings.
~8 years of combined Land Rover (a 2018 & 2019 Discovery) owner here, with some annual off roading trips in Utah, and CA under my belt and my big takeaway for relaibility wrt my two examples, of which I still own, is solid mechanical reliability. My two Discos have never stranded my wife or me, though problems we have had (entirely random non-critical electrical accessories having faults). Prospective buyers just need to understand limited parts availibitly, due to lower overall demand than Jeep/Toyota, higher annual MX costs at local JLR dealers, mean higher ownership costs. JLR is definitely a pay-to-play brand, and neglecting maintenance could result in costly repairs down the line. The upside of these obvious downsides is a vehicele with great on road and off road drivng characterisics, outstanding comfort on the long road trips and with the push of a button (or two if low range is needed) rises up to some pretty serious off road challenges. My token example of my experience: I was in Moab with two of my buddies in my 2019 Disco and we were driving down a moderatley difficult (4/10 on OnX) trail when we came up behind a jeep with its doors off. The occupants of the jeep were suffering (or enjoying?) wind, dust, 100 F heat and the blaring July sun. My Disco's occupants were enjoying the trail with the windows up and the a/c set to ~68 F, our butts were chilled with ventillated seats, the front seaters were even enjoying a back massage from the seat's system. The Disco's air suspension smoothed out the trail and the double paned glass meant we didn't hear the Jeep's engine as we followed behind. We were in the thick of it with the Jeep but were also isolated from the discomforts. If that sounds appealing, give LR a try!
@sreilly the ford... bought a maverick liked it reliability was garbage dealerships multiple service was garbage and abusive will never ever buy a ford
I believe, as a jeep wrangler 2 door owner that one doesn't buy a jeep wrangler wishing they had a defender! We don't get them to haul anything other than ourselves..we love that the top and doors are removable, love the ruggedness and therefore don't compare them to defenders or 4 runner's, not taking anything away from them, jeep owners like jeeps for what they are so don't speak for the rest of us,we like em just the way they are!!!
As an owner of a defender 90. They’re talking about the price difference, but that base defender has the features of a much more high end wrangler. When I was shopping I compared the 2. I paid $68k for my 90 p400, to get similar equipment and power in a wrangler I was going to have to pay the same or maybe even more.
I bought the Defender because Toyota dealers all wanted so much mark up, the Defender was cheaper. I’m well over 10k ahead on depreciation and repairs from go.
I bought a 2024 Jeep Wrangler sport almost identical to yours and me and my wife Love it I Love the roll up windows and the simplicity of it. I am very impressed with it on road as well as off road and was glad to see what a difference just a set of tires can do I have put 4000 miles on it and have not had any issues with it. Me and my wife love it and will probably have it forever at this point I see no reason to upgrade the base sport is just fine for us
Lol, congrats on what? There's a 50% chance it will end in divorce and women initiate 80% of divorces here in the West. Getting married in Western countries is a trap, the courts favor the women. There's a good chance Tommy is going to find out the hard way hehe.
@@joshuamugabi8781 He's mentioned it a few times over the past year, but they didn't make a big deal of it. He mentioned in the previous two Cheap Jeep episodes that he had to sell his Wrangler to pay for the wedding.
Land Rover for me, as you still need to drive to the trails, and live with it on road for the rest of the time, and, drive it home. I know what would be more comfortable, and safer
Sure, but for twice the price, you could buy a second car to use in normal routine and then have a Jeep for the trails and you could modify it to be even more capable since you don't need to drive it in town.
@@TheDfelanFrom what I’ve been reading and hearing from Defender owners (tons where I live), nobody has reported any issues and would buy another. That being said , it’s a good thing my father in-law is a mechanic because he’s always fixing his Rubicon constantly. Jeep, as a brand, seems to be in a bit of trouble.
@johnfitzgerald1879 Still kinda early but I hope they turn it around. Also, I'm not advocating necessarily for the jeep either, I had a 2000's model, and it was a turd. Currently I have a Maverick Tremor. So far I love it, but time will tell. Was a little nervous buying a Ford honestly.
There is an enormous amount more being shaken around in that Jeep. Probably OK if you are a hard-core off-roader, but maybe not for a family just doing a bit of off-roading on moderate trails. There's going to be a few kids turning green in the back. nb. not covered of course, but the interiors are night and day between those two vehicles.
True, but Tommy was driving the Jeep quite a bit faster on the same trail than Roman was driving in the Defender. Also, while driving with hands on the steering wheel, Roman can better control upper body movement which helps dampen neck/head movement making the shake look really bad while Roman is in the passenger seat of the Jeep.
I don’t know why people still fear the air suspension, it’s not the gremlin filled nightmare that it once was. People overland around the world on air suspension, in Land Rovers and Jeeps and Toyotas and everything. It’s arguably more reliable these days than the e-locker in most 4x4s.
On Rovers with air suspension, it is one of the five most common probem failure areas. Air struts like shocks will fail but will be around 3x the cost to replace. Rubber air bladders will usually start to fail in the 6 to 10 year range or 90k to 160K range. Air compressors can last a long time, but the air compressor springs do fail and need replacing at some point. Air leaks are also common as the system ages. Cold weather, off-roading, and moisture accumulation greatly reduce reliability. There are a lot more components and failure points in air suspension. If you don't keep your vehicles for a long time or have the funds to keep everything working correctly, air suspension definitely has its advantages.
@@life36899 On my 2003 Range Rover I had to change my front struts last year as one failed, they were still the original parts. 650€ for two OEM manufactured struts and 45 minutes per side to change. Otherwise I had no problems with the air suspension. It's an easy system, struts, valves and the compressor, no magic involved.
Y’all should keep that Land Rover for a couple years and give us a long term reliability update. Someone at the office needs to put at least a thousand miles a month on it and see what issues come up.
I have a 2020 110 V6 fully loaded with air suspension, I drive like all the time, so I've already put 100k on mine. I haven't had any issues. I love this thing. I dont feel safe in anything other than a landrover.
Only thing missing is the "cheep" part. But other than that it's ok. No one is watching this anymore as an buying resource. But as Saturday morning entertainment.
My latest Jeep is a ‘21 JT Sport. I intentionally found one with manual windows, locks, etc. 4+ years in I have zero regrets, currently 67k miles and not a single issue.
Here’s my 2 cents worth. Once having been young and still hopefully young 60+ person. Watching this review. You’re both correct. One is from the young adult vs seasoned adult perspective. They are both good just from a different viewpoint. Keep up the fun and informational reviews. 👍
Also depends on what you’re going to do with it. They mentioned aftermarket support in the video - it’s _much_ easier to turn the wrangler into an extreme rock crawler - but only one of them lets you take off the top and doors (easily, at least). If that’s something that appeals to you, it’s worth mentioning as well.
We bought a 2022 Defender 110 SE back in July and have already put 5000 miles on it. We had a leaky windshield that was replaced under warranty no questions asked but other than that - not a single issue. Only a couple months of ownership I know - but its been a stellar vehicle. My wife wasn't keen on it being her daily driver but she's fallen in love with it... especially the heated steering wheel.
All of these new vehicles are stellar, up to the point they're not anymore. After that it's prohibitive to own one. You just have to get rid of it before that happens. And it goes from no problem at all to $15k repair in a second.
Very naive thinking. Just wait until that water and moisture sitting in the computers, chips, screens, carpets and cables etc. eat it all out. This product is a time bomb to begin with.
Had a D250 for 1 full year - zero issues - best car I ever had! Don’t listen to LR haters who never owned one - but keeps circulating fake news on the internet - mostly because they can’t afford one.
We loved our 2010 LR4, drove it for 100k miles then got a 2020 Defender 110 HSE and it’s been flawless so far. (I do have 18” wheels with 275/70R18 K02s)
Years ago I was looking at a modern day SUV with the capabilities of the Jeep and the room and refinement of the LRD.(with its terrain management system) Yep, I picked a 4R TRD OR. Best of both worlds and never regretted it for a second. Today, if I were in the market, I might look at the Bronco as well. Which was not a choice back then. Price of the LRD is just too steep. Albeit, nothing is comfortable to purchase anymore in this class. I might even look at the Land Cruisers available now.
As the owner of a 2 door JL, and also someone who really likes the Defender 90, this was a good video. I was in the position of deciding which of these to buy a couple of years ago. The big difference for me was that all it takes to make the Wrangler so much more capable than the D90 is some 34" or 35" tyres, 3" lift, and quick disconnect swaybar links, and a lunchbox locker in the front. So for under 5 grand it is a very capable rig. You just can't do that with the Defender, it's pretty much as capable as can be right off the showroom floor.
I have a Defender 90, 4cy w/air suspension. Love everything about it. Previously had a new 2 door Bronco. The Defender beats the Bronco hands down on daily hwy/road commutes. Years ago had a 2 door Jeep, and it didn’t feel as comfortable as a daily driver.
Great video guys, been looking forward to seeing these two machines out on the trail together. Just FYI for Roman . lol There are two Octa Defenders an urban focused version on 22s and street tires and an off-road focused version. The off-road version is on 20s with decent set of AT tires. I put a set of the 20” Octa off-road wheels and AT tires on my 90 v8.
I recall when my 4xe Rubicon was stock, and I feel like it still bobbed around like that. Now it has a small puck lift and Falcon shocks. It still bobs around the difference is the control is adjustable to your liking. I think with 2 solid axles, you just can't get away from it. Though disconnecting the front sway bar makes a huge diff.
You know what you hit the right button there, I have never bought a new vehicle except ions ago, Not everyone has evolve with that mentality, as long as it is certified with warranty with fairly low miles. This is why I owned both Jeep Wrangler Unlimited and Defender 110😂
If your aim is to build a "cheap Rubicon", will you take it on the Rubicon trail? I think that would be awesome. My opinion I think sort of agrees with both. If it's a second vehicle = Jeep. If it's your only vehicle = Defender.
Glad you made this cheap jeep series more realistic by putting some A/T tires on it as that was truly holding back its capability on the last video. Anyone buying a New Budget Jeep to take off road will replace the stock tires at minimum and most likely put on some rock sliders for protection. You should always replace All Season tires with A/T's on your vehicle tests as this is a minimum equipment requirement to demonstrate off road capability also giving you the most bang for your buck.
Honestly I love seeing these two base models killing it. Two very different machines for very different kind of buyers. I know I’d still pick the Jeep for its simplicity and fun factor though.
The off road ride in the defender looks like it is an order of magnitude better; loved my rubicon but I can empathetically feel every head toss I see in that video :-). For moderate trail usage seeing great scenery and carrying a picnic with your spouse and dog the defender is a clear choice. Obviously for real rock crawling neither of these two but a (modified) jeep all day long. Hope you take both to something like black bear pass (or at least engineer although BB would sure be more interesting) this summer.
About half way through you were navigating round some rocks in the Defender and you had a look out the window, so glad you were not using the camera to view them..
Im with Brosef JR. I bought the exact same jeep at the same time except 4 door. Got my rock rails on craiglist and a pair of ko2's. Look in the used section for jeep wrangler stuff and youll find everytbing you need wt a fraction. The only thing i still keep thinking about that would be great from the factory is the winch behind the bumper. That would be awesome.but beaides that for almost half a trimmed out rubicon we've had zero issues getting anywhere other 4x4's have been. Nice job boys. Very cool
People don't forget it. They recognize that they don't need it to run the majority of open, legal routes on U.S. Forest Service or BLM land. I can't go anywhere today in 2024 on Forest Service or BLM land that a whole bunch of other people in decades past haven't already been to before in bone-stock CJ Jeeps that didn't have lockers or 4:1 low range gearing.
@@jerroldshelton9367 Some of us like to use our Jeep for more than running simple forest service roads and taking the bypass on every obstacle. Rock crawling and climbing large obstacles on difficult trails is better with lower gearing, especially when you get larger tires. Also, lower gearing and lockers allow you to take the same obstacles slower and do less damage to the trails.
Webster is churning in his grave as we redefine "cheap!" I get it, this fud is beating a really dead horse - prices just go up, never down! Fun video nonetheless the less, another fun father/son, buddy video! The evolution of TFL!
While I'm dubious on the long term reliability and resale value of the Land Rover. I will admit they nailed the traction control/4 wheel drive system. Other videos clearly show how little effort other brands have focused on those systems, probably because they want you to pay for locking diffs and higher trim levels. This system showed how little drama is necessary just using torque vectoring via simple braking systems.
Softest off-road channel in all of UA-cam:) I do understand it is what most people would consider doing with a 4x4 and still will not do. Good on you for showing the masses what they can safely do with their daily driver “off-road” mall cruisers.
For all the strengths and weaknesses of each. 100 people out of 100 people would rather be in that Land Rover in the event of a 50mph head on collision. Facts.
I bought my 2019 Rubicon last year from carmax for 40K. It has every single luxury option. I bought it with less than 20k miles. for a few extra grand, I've built it into a badass machine...
I like rovers but the jeep platform is better offroad. Easier to build, cheaper to build, parts availability hands down favor yhe Jeep. But it's not better at a lot of other stuff, though, like towing, payload, comfort, performance, or style. The new Ingenium inline 6 engines have been really reliable too. Roman was right calling the Defender a swiss army knife.
Nice review - but you miss an important point; PAYLOAD! Good luck with towing a 3,5 ton horse trailer with that Jeep - or just 900 kg in the trunk, 300 kg. on the roof etc. Jeep just isn’t that kind of work horse - Jeep is a 1 trick pony for weekend fun only.
My buddy pulled his 7k lb trailer with his wrangler from time to time. It made it to 215k before throwing a rod. The shocks were shot all the time and it never got out of third towing. But it's a jeep thing.
@@CoreyBrass The importer HAS to pay the tariffs to get them into the country. Thats how they work, lol. Otherwise they’d sit at the port or be shipped back.
@Clockwork0nions oh so the importer just eats the cost and doesn't pass that on to the consumer? How benevolent of them. 😆 Yeah, you have a firm grasp on tariffs, buddy. 😆😆😆
@@Clockwork0nions to fully impress on you how stupid you sound right now... that's like telling me that I didn't pay for my Land Rover, Land Rover did. I didn't pay the steel company. I didn't pay the assembly people. 😆
funny thigs: correct me if I'm wrong, but I think the defender actually did better on the first obstacle, and secondly on the wrangler I see your heads bumping around like you're headnanging on a metal concert whereas the defender seems more like a smoother ride. True, I might be biased after owning 2 range rovers and one discovery, and only one jeep (cherokee sport) and never even driven a wrangler myself. but yeah, both seem like decent capable toys on screen. Cheers!
I feel Tommy’s pain! He wants the defender to be reliable like I want a Jeep to be reliable. A Land Rover Forum - Is for Land Rover fans…. Obviously your going to find people swearing by their defenders. At the end of the day buy what you want and need…. If you need a comfy car buy 1, if you want reliability go Toyota. If you need to climb rocks go Jeep. It’s still fun to dream Tommy I’m right there with ya 👍
I think you need some caveats. Haven't heard of any recent Land Rovers needing multiple engines lately, but I have heard of transmissions failing and engines blowing from Toyota. People are just wanting a reliable Toyota and not blown headgaskets from the 4runners and Tundras before 200k.
@@Land_Raver I understand your point. I want a Jeep to be good also. Judging by your name I can tell you like Land Rovers. I like Land Rover buttttttt there’s just one big problem… Tfl is on their third.
Back in early 2018, my 1978 Bronco was getting to the point where I didn't want to put much more money into repairs. I found a 2000 Jeep Wrangler that was mostly built, rust free, but in need of some TLC. I purchased it from a volunteer with Colorado 4x4 Rescue for $6500. I had to have the suspension rebuilt, as well as the rear end. I also had the 5 speed manual transmission replaced with an AX-15 and the stock transfer case with an Atlas 4-speed. Right now it is an amazingly capable and reliable vehicle that I use as my daily driver. In total, I've spent less than half of the money on my Jeep Wrangler than the cost of purchasing the cheapest brand new Jeep Wrangler. There are all sorts of strategies that can be utilized to save money I love the cheap Jeep series and seeing what modifications and capabilities your Jeep is getting!
Indeed the Jeep has very low space belong the rear seat but you can fold that seat down with 2 people up front and you gain a ton of space for whatever you need short a kayak.
Wow Tommy’s married! I am old now. I have had a few things go bad on my defender,one of the big ones was the rear differential was making a cluck. Turned out to be the locker and it was replaced under warranty at 65k. I have the bad luck of a rock hitting my driver side headlight and I found a used one for $550 I have not babied my defender at all and it has always gotten me home. I am at 68k now and my wife probably needs a new vehicle in about a year or two and we will probably get her a defender too.
I like both cars for there own reasons but over all the JL price point just makes it feel better ... any chance you can compare this 2dr against say pro4x or Colorado or even a Subaru ... see how it does in it's price point range .... it be fun to see how this 2dr JL can hold it's own and show the backbone of Rubicon ;)
I don’t know about that. I don’t think the renegade has a 4 lo system, right? That will make a difference. Also, it’s running on like 29s compared to the Defender is on 32s stock (this one might be 33s, can’t remember exactly). The tire size and especially lack of low range means it would struggle keep up.
Well that trail they were running during their monologue, my wife’s Forester could easily do that trail. Maybe not the elephant’s foot, but the trail they were just cruising down talking, easy. I was also thinking, a Renegade could do that trail.
@@backwoodstherapy The Renegade Trailhawk DOES have a "four low". It has a 4.7:1 first gear that isn't used in ordinary street driving. That, combined with a 4.33:1 ring and pinion ratio, equals a mechanical low gear of 20.35:1. That is augmented by 2:1 multiplication potential from the torque converter, so the overall potential torque multiplication is over 40:1. What the Renegade Trailhawk doesn't have is a two-speed transfer case. But it doesn't need one. It's geared about the same as my '73 Bronco was with 3:50 ring and pinion gears, a 2.42:1 first gear in the C-4 auto, and a 2.42:1 low range in the Dana 20 T-case. It had a mechanical gear reduction of 20.49:1. That's about where every U.S. or Japanese four-wheel drive with an automatic transmission was at from the 1970s into the 2000's. In my Bronco, most of the time, I was running in four low with the C-4 in second gear. That's only 13.29:1 mechanical reduction, BUT the torque converter can add another 2:1 torque multiplication on top of that, so it's like running a variable gear from 26,58:1 to 13.29:1 when the C-4 was in second gear. Running trails in my Renegade Trailhawk is the same deal. It's second gear is 2.84:1, resulting in mechanical reduction of 12.29:1, but as with my old Bronco, the torque converter adds another 2:1 of torque multiplication potential, so running in second gear on the trail is like running a variable 24.58:1 to 12.29:1 gear. That's not too far away from the 25:1 compound low of a stock Willys MB or Ford GPW. And they don't have a lower gear than that to shift into. The Renegade Trailhawk does. The brake-based traction control on the Renegade Trailhawk works very well and is quick at doing what it is supposed to do. Put 225 / 75 17 AT tires on one like I did on mine, and a FIAT Renegade Trailhawk will handle most legal, open routes on U.S. Forest Service and BLM land. You'll have 31 degrees of approach angle, 25,7 degrees of breakover angle, a 34 degree departure angle, 9 inches of running ground clearance, and 8 inches of wheel travel. It is A LOT more off-pavement capable than most would ever suspect it could be. Yeah, the tires are only 28.6" tall, but on most U.S. Forest Service and BLM routes, that's tall enough. I've done the Rubicon multiple times in my CJ-2A on 29" tall 6.00 x 16 NDT tires. No lift. No big rubber. No problem. I don't have lockers in my CJ-2A, either, and one reason why I don't need them is that I'm not running wide tires on a 2,300 pound vehicle. The OEM equivalent rubber keeps the ground pressure high and that, in turn, keeps the friction on either side of the differential carrier relatively high and relatively equal. So, even with open differentials, my CJ 2A will keep a fours turning most of the time and when that stops happening, adding a little brake pedal over constant throttle application will get them all turning again, most of the time. Most CJ 2's have a T-90 transmission with a 2.79:1 first gear and a 1.55:1 second gear. The low range in a stock CJ-2 is 2.43:1 ad the stock ring and pinion ratio is 5.38:1. So, the overall gear reduction is 36.47:1. The total overall torque multiplication potential of the Renegade Trailhawk is lower than that when the 2:1 torque multiplication from the torque converter is factored in. My CJ 2A has a granny-low four-speed in it with a 7:1 first gear, so it has a 91.13:1 compound low gear, but most out there don't. I'm old enough to remember when a 10-15 Gates Commando was considered "massive off road rubber" and you cut the fenders of your Bronco, FJ 40, or Jeep Commando to fit them. Back then, lift kits weren't commonplace, The closest thing you could get to "lockers" back then was front and rear limited slip differentials and only Ford and International Harvester offered LSD in the front. And back then, the Rubicon was just another Jeep trail useful for accessing hunting and fishing spots. It was just longer than most. The first time I went over it, I was a six-year old kid riding in the passenger seat of an uncle's stock Willys MB. That's why I've gone back to off-pavement driving's roots and run a CJ-2A at stock ride height on OEM equivalent tires. I can't go anywhere on Forest Service or BLM land in 2024 that a whole bunch of other people haven't already been to in decades past in bone-stock flatfender Jeeps and if a route is truly more than my essentially stock flatfender can handle, I'd rather walk, ride a horse, or ride a trail bike on it. I'm not and never have been an "off roader." I run trails as a means to an end because they go someplace I want to get to in order to do something other than get my kidneys pummeled to a pulp while getting there. For me, the Renegade Trailhawk is plenty capable of getting me to over 90% of the places I want to go and I've got a real Jeep for the tenth percentile of routes my Renegade can't handle.
To be fair wrangler is closest thing you can get if you want the old defender utilitarian and off road capability, bronco is the mix of the old defender and new defender. Ineos grenadier is just an expensive farm truck at this point even far exceeds the price of the newer defender with comfort of a 60 grand wrangler or bronco.
"which is better off road" is like asking a guy from texas which president is gonna make America great again. It's not a question anymore ever since the new defender comes out. It has just become another SUV instead a true 4x4 hardcore offroader
Complaining about cargo space i owned an 02 suzuki grand vitara aka 4 door chevy tracker and they are smaller then a jeep. I wish chevy/ suzuki still made them but, the closet rig is a suzuki jimny and we cant have them. BRING BACK SMALL OFF ROADERS
Jimny. It's called a Jimny. And it's really cool, small, and simple. And not sold in the US because we have to have all the bells and whistles and weight and cost and.....
Offroad capability aside, the Jeep’s top and doors come off, and you can get it with a proper manual transmission. That’s the end of the decision process for me.
I had Jeeps for 20 years and even had a 2024 Willys 2 door on order but after 20 weeks of it at confirmed I went to the JLR dealer and bought a Defender 90 and canceled the Jeep. After just over a year of owning the Defender I have no regrets, much better vehicle overall compared to Jeep and no more stupid ducks and waving. Also in just over a year I have only seen five other 90's on the road, it's nice not having a me to car anymore.
I'm Land Rover guy through and through. I am down to 2 LRs at the moment. Having said that I would buy the new Jeep.. at the right price. I would not pay the ridiculous msrp
Is it just me, or in the last series of videos did Tommy go from looking adorable little nerdy to kind of suave? It seems like an overnight transformation since he got married.
you're getting head toss because you have 21.7 psi in the tyres and didn't disconnect the swaybar. 33's on a 2 door wrangler means road pressure is probably around 26-28psi if you do a chalk test 20psi is a good start for high speed 2wd dirt road comfort but you should be at 15psi at least for slow speed 4wdriving
I ran an “old” style Defender 90 TDi300 CSW for 25 years and changed to a New Defender 110 First Edition. 1st my 1996 Defender might have been crude but it never failed mechanically in 97000 miles, the only major issue it has was at 11 years old the chassis rotted away to dust. In 2020 I bought the D240 4cylinder diesel 110 First Edition - no mechanical issues despite what every one said I was letting myself in for BUT heaps and heaps of rattles and rain water leaks. In 2023 I changed it for a D250 90 HSE with the off road, air suspension and towing packs. It’s the first JLR product out of 15 since 1996 that has had a mechanical issue - the DPF failed at 11 months in and 10,000 miles but it was a known issue with a component in the system, annoying but the entire DFP system and oil and filters were changed free to me under warranty. It’s ran perfectly up to the failure and has done since the replacement. Of 12 Land and Range Rovers with air suspension I’ve owned over the years I’ve never had a problem with it and all have been heavily off roaded here in Scotland they have not been pampered school run/ shopping trolleys in my hands. I have many LR owning friends who have the same experience with their LRs BUT I also know people (and some are family members) who have had stupid problems with things like PHEV systems in a PHEV and failing cabin heating but none has felt the need to reject or sell their car. My sister ran a 2.7ltr TDv6 Range Rover Sport with minimal servicing and oil changing out to 340,000 miles with no failures of any kind, mechanical or air suspension………………
97,000 miles is nothing at all.
Love this series! Thanks Tommy for coming up with this idea!!
Glad you enjoy it!
My wife and I have this very same conversation at least once a year. We are both in the automotive industry. My statement is , if you want to have fun and feel the experience of off road get a jeep. If you want to make it up the obstacles no question asked in comfort, land rover. Great video thank you for all yalls hard work.
If you want to make over and keep it out of the shop buy a toyota😂
@@UA-camuser1aa guess you haven’t seen the videos of the new Toyotas front diffs failing, or the suspension failing because they no longer have proper bump stops. Or those twin turbo motors seizing main bearings.
@@husshardan3511 nobody who actually off-roads would buy the latest gen Tacoma or tundra, lol.
@@UA-camuser1aa Buy a Toyota and upgrade everything in it for 20-30k to go over the same things Jeeps and Rovers do. Pass.
@@Land_Raver yeah reliability in backroads is pretty nice
The Defender is so smooth! Incredible traction control system.
~8 years of combined Land Rover (a 2018 & 2019 Discovery) owner here, with some annual off roading trips in Utah, and CA under my belt and my big takeaway for relaibility wrt my two examples, of which I still own, is solid mechanical reliability. My two Discos have never stranded my wife or me, though problems we have had (entirely random non-critical electrical accessories having faults). Prospective buyers just need to understand limited parts availibitly, due to lower overall demand than Jeep/Toyota, higher annual MX costs at local JLR dealers, mean higher ownership costs. JLR is definitely a pay-to-play brand, and neglecting maintenance could result in costly repairs down the line. The upside of these obvious downsides is a vehicele with great on road and off road drivng characterisics, outstanding comfort on the long road trips and with the push of a button (or two if low range is needed) rises up to some pretty serious off road challenges.
My token example of my experience:
I was in Moab with two of my buddies in my 2019 Disco and we were driving down a moderatley difficult (4/10 on OnX) trail when we came up behind a jeep with its doors off. The occupants of the jeep were suffering (or enjoying?) wind, dust, 100 F heat and the blaring July sun. My Disco's occupants were enjoying the trail with the windows up and the a/c set to ~68 F, our butts were chilled with ventillated seats, the front seaters were even enjoying a back massage from the seat's system. The Disco's air suspension smoothed out the trail and the double paned glass meant we didn't hear the Jeep's engine as we followed behind. We were in the thick of it with the Jeep but were also isolated from the discomforts. If that sounds appealing, give LR a try!
You need to add a 2 door bronco to this series.
So then we’ll have a competition of which one lands in the junk yard first! 😂😂
Was just going to post this and saw you beat me to it. Base Bronco 2 door, non-SAS (with better tires as the stock ones aren't great).
@@sreilly what year and mileage is your Toyota? 😂
@sreilly the ford... bought a maverick liked it reliability was garbage dealerships multiple service was garbage and abusive will never ever buy a ford
Too bad they don't make a cheap one anymore. 😅
I believe, as a jeep wrangler 2 door owner that one doesn't buy a jeep wrangler wishing they had a defender! We don't get them to haul anything other than ourselves..we love that the top and doors are removable, love the ruggedness and therefore don't compare them to defenders or 4 runner's, not taking anything away from them, jeep owners like jeeps for what they are so don't speak for the rest of us,we like em just the way they are!!!
Defender looks really cool in a two door.
As an owner of a defender 90. They’re talking about the price difference, but that base defender has the features of a much more high end wrangler. When I was shopping I compared the 2. I paid $68k for my 90 p400, to get similar equipment and power in a wrangler I was going to have to pay the same or maybe even more.
Exactly!
I bought the Defender because Toyota dealers all wanted so much mark up, the Defender was cheaper. I’m well over 10k ahead on depreciation and repairs from go.
Tommy, the 2 door Defender does not fall under the 25% chicken tax as it’s still classified as a passenger vehicle.
Haha the word cheap is relative. Nothing is cheap anymore. Less expensive might be more appropriate. Nice video guys.
I bought a 2024 Jeep Wrangler sport almost identical to yours and me and my wife Love it I Love the roll up windows and the simplicity of it. I am very impressed with it on road as well as off road and was glad to see what a difference just a set of tires can do I have put 4000 miles on it and have not had any issues with it. Me and my wife love it and will probably have it forever at this point I see no reason to upgrade the base sport is just fine for us
For a daily driver with some occasional off-road….Defender all day!
if price point wasn't an issue 100% agree but hard to argue creature comforts when there is a $30k price cut hanging over it ...
@@PKDesigns2011Yep, exactly. You can buy another car for daily driving and still come out ahead.
Daily driving, a Land Rover is much more cost of ownership. (Fuel, insurance, maintenance cost)
I’ll take the jeep all day long!
You guys should go off road with me in my CJ-7, you'd never complain about the ride in a modern Wrangler again.
@14:47
That's what I loved about the Jeep TJ LJ
It was longer than the original normal TJ
Jeep should bring that concept back
TJ Unlimited
Tommy’s married??? Man, I feel old! Congrats dude
Lol, congrats on what? There's a 50% chance it will end in divorce and women initiate 80% of divorces here in the West. Getting married in Western countries is a trap, the courts favor the women. There's a good chance Tommy is going to find out the hard way hehe.
I noticed the ring before he even mentioned his spouse lol
My reaction as well!!! That happened rather quietly, no? Congratulations, Tommy!!!
@@joshuamugabi8781 He's mentioned it a few times over the past year, but they didn't make a big deal of it. He mentioned in the previous two Cheap Jeep episodes that he had to sell his Wrangler to pay for the wedding.
Land Rover for me, as you still need to drive to the trails, and live with it on road for the rest of the time, and, drive it home. I know what would be more comfortable, and safer
Sure, but for twice the price, you could buy a second car to use in normal routine and then have a Jeep for the trails and you could modify it to be even more capable since you don't need to drive it in town.
@@mediocreman2and also throw in the fact of how unreliable Rovers are and expensive to work on.
@@TheDfelanFrom what I’ve been reading and hearing from Defender owners (tons where I live), nobody has reported any issues and would buy another.
That being said , it’s a good thing my father in-law is a mechanic because he’s always fixing his Rubicon constantly. Jeep, as a brand, seems to be in a bit of trouble.
@johnfitzgerald1879 Still kinda early but I hope they turn it around. Also, I'm not advocating necessarily for the jeep either, I had a 2000's model, and it was a turd. Currently I have a Maverick Tremor. So far I love it, but time will tell. Was a little nervous buying a Ford honestly.
There is an enormous amount more being shaken around in that Jeep. Probably OK if you are a hard-core off-roader, but maybe not for a family just doing a bit of off-roading on moderate trails. There's going to be a few kids turning green in the back.
nb. not covered of course, but the interiors are night and day between those two vehicles.
I don’t think anyone buys a 2 door Jeep to haul kids around tbh
True, but Tommy was driving the Jeep quite a bit faster on the same trail than Roman was driving in the Defender. Also, while driving with hands on the steering wheel, Roman can better control upper body movement which helps dampen neck/head movement making the shake look really bad while Roman is in the passenger seat of the Jeep.
I don’t know why people still fear the air suspension, it’s not the gremlin filled nightmare that it once was. People overland around the world on air suspension, in Land Rovers and Jeeps and Toyotas and everything. It’s arguably more reliable these days than the e-locker in most 4x4s.
On Rovers with air suspension, it is one of the five most common probem failure areas. Air struts like shocks will fail but will be around 3x the cost to replace. Rubber air bladders will usually start to fail in the 6 to 10 year range or 90k to 160K range. Air compressors can last a long time, but the air compressor springs do fail and need replacing at some point. Air leaks are also common as the system ages. Cold weather, off-roading, and moisture accumulation greatly reduce reliability. There are a lot more components and failure points in air suspension. If you don't keep your vehicles for a long time or have the funds to keep everything working correctly, air suspension definitely has its advantages.
@@life36899 On my 2003 Range Rover I had to change my front struts last year as one failed, they were still the original parts. 650€ for two OEM manufactured struts and 45 minutes per side to change. Otherwise I had no problems with the air suspension. It's an easy system, struts, valves and the compressor, no magic involved.
Y’all should keep that Land Rover for a couple years and give us a long term reliability update. Someone at the office needs to put at least a thousand miles a month on it and see what issues come up.
they probably cant afford the depreciation that thing is gunna have.
I have a 2020 110 V6 fully loaded with air suspension, I drive like all the time, so I've already put 100k on mine. I haven't had any issues. I love this thing. I dont feel safe in anything other than a landrover.
Love this cheep jeep series. Short wheelbase for me every time… our off roading here is in deep woods and I like the more nimble compactness
Only thing missing is the "cheep" part. But other than that it's ok. No one is watching this anymore as an buying resource. But as Saturday morning entertainment.
@@zelenizub2036 I agree. I picked up a 12 year old basic JK. Couldn’t justify dropping 35 to 40 on a new one I was just gonna start off roading.
My latest Jeep is a ‘21 JT Sport. I intentionally found one with manual windows, locks, etc. 4+ years in I have zero regrets, currently 67k miles and not a single issue.
Here’s my 2 cents worth. Once having been young and still hopefully young 60+ person. Watching this review. You’re both correct. One is from the young adult vs seasoned adult perspective. They are both good just from a different viewpoint. Keep up the fun and informational reviews. 👍
Also depends on what you’re going to do with it. They mentioned aftermarket support in the video - it’s _much_ easier to turn the wrangler into an extreme rock crawler - but only one of them lets you take off the top and doors (easily, at least). If that’s something that appeals to you, it’s worth mentioning as well.
Okay, I know I am going to get ripe apart, but the land rover defender for me the size is a better fit along with the towing
Love the defender esp with the green and white wheel combo
I like the fact you compared base model vs base model both with AT tires.
couldn't just the stock tires on the defender they just blow out, look at their previous videos.
i did a comparrison on that exact section with my jeep and brother's defender. it was pretty neat!
Defender for me. I don't want to suffer a harsh ride on the road while driving to the offroad trails. Otherwise i'd get a 4runner. Ancient but simple.
We bought a 2022 Defender 110 SE back in July and have already put 5000 miles on it. We had a leaky windshield that was replaced under warranty no questions asked but other than that - not a single issue. Only a couple months of ownership I know - but its been a stellar vehicle. My wife wasn't keen on it being her daily driver but she's fallen in love with it... especially the heated steering wheel.
We have one since 3 years 60000 km and actullay quite a lot of serious off-roading. And not 1 single issue.
a 2022 shouldnt have any issues at all, keep it another 6 years and let us know!
All of these new vehicles are stellar, up to the point they're not anymore. After that it's prohibitive to own one. You just have to get rid of it before that happens. And it goes from no problem at all to $15k repair in a second.
Very naive thinking. Just wait until that water and moisture sitting in the computers, chips, screens, carpets and cables etc. eat it all out. This product is a time bomb to begin with.
Had a D250 for 1 full year - zero issues - best car I ever had! Don’t listen to LR haters who never owned one - but keeps circulating fake news on the internet - mostly because they can’t afford one.
If you’re trying to “build a Rubicon on a budget” it’d be cool to see you do the Rubicon trail when it’s done.
We loved our 2010 LR4, drove it for 100k miles then got a 2020 Defender 110 HSE and it’s been flawless so far. (I do have 18” wheels with 275/70R18 K02s)
Years ago I was looking at a modern day SUV with the capabilities of the Jeep and the room and refinement of the LRD.(with its terrain management system) Yep, I picked a 4R TRD OR. Best of both worlds and never regretted it for a second. Today, if I were in the market, I might look at the Bronco as well. Which was not a choice back then. Price of the LRD is just too steep. Albeit, nothing is comfortable to purchase anymore in this class. I might even look at the Land Cruisers available now.
As the owner of a 2 door JL, and also someone who really likes the Defender 90, this was a good video. I was in the position of deciding which of these to buy a couple of years ago. The big difference for me was that all it takes to make the Wrangler so much more capable than the D90 is some 34" or 35" tyres, 3" lift, and quick disconnect swaybar links, and a lunchbox locker in the front. So for under 5 grand it is a very capable rig. You just can't do that with the Defender, it's pretty much as capable as can be right off the showroom floor.
Sticking with my WJ! And before I'd pick one of those, I'd go with the TFL Taureg or LR3s!
Fun video! I've a cheap 2dr Bronco non-sas if you guys want to do another one
I have a Defender 90, 4cy w/air suspension. Love everything about it. Previously had a new 2 door Bronco. The Defender beats the Bronco hands down on daily hwy/road commutes. Years ago had a 2 door Jeep, and it didn’t feel as comfortable as a daily driver.
Great video guys, been looking forward to seeing these two machines out on the trail together.
Just FYI for Roman . lol
There are two Octa Defenders an urban focused version on 22s and street tires and an off-road focused version.
The off-road version is on 20s with decent set of AT tires. I put a set of the 20” Octa off-road wheels and AT tires on my 90 v8.
I recall when my 4xe Rubicon was stock, and I feel like it still bobbed around like that. Now it has a small puck lift and Falcon shocks. It still bobs around the difference is the control is adjustable to your liking. I think with 2 solid axles, you just can't get away from it. Though disconnecting the front sway bar makes a huge diff.
Enjoying this series very much! It will be interesting to see how much or not, the fox suspension swap on the jeep makes for ride comfort.
Realistically buying a nice used vehicle makes more sense than buying either of these new but it's a great comparison.
You know what you hit the right button there, I have never bought a new vehicle except ions ago, Not everyone has evolve with that mentality, as long as it is certified with warranty with fairly low miles. This is why I owned both Jeep Wrangler Unlimited and Defender 110😂
I’m still picking the JEEP all day
YOU CANNOT OUTELVIS ELVIS. AND YOU CANNOT OUTJEEP, A JEEP.
If your aim is to build a "cheap Rubicon", will you take it on the Rubicon trail? I think that would be awesome.
My opinion I think sort of agrees with both. If it's a second vehicle = Jeep. If it's your only vehicle = Defender.
Glad you made this cheap jeep series more realistic by putting some A/T tires on it as that was truly holding back its capability on the last video. Anyone buying a New Budget Jeep to take off road will replace the stock tires at minimum and most likely put on some rock sliders for protection. You should always replace All Season tires with A/T's on your vehicle tests as this is a minimum equipment requirement to demonstrate off road capability also giving you the most bang for your buck.
Honestly I love seeing these two base models killing it. Two very different machines for very different kind of buyers. I know I’d still pick the Jeep for its simplicity and fun factor though.
The off road ride in the defender looks like it is an order of magnitude better; loved my rubicon but I can empathetically feel every head toss I see in that video :-). For moderate trail usage seeing great scenery and carrying a picnic with your spouse and dog the defender is a clear choice. Obviously for real rock crawling neither of these two but a (modified) jeep all day long. Hope you take both to something like black bear pass (or at least engineer although BB would sure be more interesting) this summer.
100% Defender is the best. Thanks guys
About half way through you were navigating round some rocks in the Defender and you had a look out the window, so glad you were not using the camera to view them..
Im with Brosef JR. I bought the exact same jeep at the same time except 4 door. Got my rock rails on craiglist and a pair of ko2's. Look in the used section for jeep wrangler stuff and youll find everytbing you need wt a fraction. The only thing i still keep thinking about that would be great from the factory is the winch behind the bumper. That would be awesome.but beaides that for almost half a trimmed out rubicon we've had zero issues getting anywhere other 4x4's have been. Nice job boys. Very cool
The Rubicon also has a better transfer case than the lower trim models with its 4:1 ratio that people always seem to forget about.
People don't forget it. They recognize that they don't need it to run the majority of open, legal routes on U.S. Forest Service or BLM land. I can't go anywhere today in 2024 on Forest Service or BLM land that a whole bunch of other people in decades past haven't already been to before in bone-stock CJ Jeeps that didn't have lockers or 4:1 low range gearing.
@@jerroldshelton9367 Some of us like to use our Jeep for more than running simple forest service roads and taking the bypass on every obstacle. Rock crawling and climbing large obstacles on difficult trails is better with lower gearing, especially when you get larger tires. Also, lower gearing and lockers allow you to take the same obstacles slower and do less damage to the trails.
I have a 2004 TJ and i still see no reason to upgrade to a new jeep
Webster is churning in his grave as we redefine "cheap!" I get it, this fud is beating a really dead horse - prices just go up, never down!
Fun video nonetheless the less, another fun father/son, buddy video! The evolution of TFL!
I beg the difference with you I have driven my 2016 Wrangler Sahara very comfortably to corpus Christi twice and to South Carolina!
While I'm dubious on the long term reliability and resale value of the Land Rover. I will admit they nailed the traction control/4 wheel drive system. Other videos clearly show how little effort other brands have focused on those systems, probably because they want you to pay for locking diffs and higher trim levels. This system showed how little drama is necessary just using torque vectoring via simple braking systems.
Softest off-road channel in all of UA-cam:) I do understand it is what most people would consider doing with a 4x4 and still will not do. Good on you for showing the masses what they can safely do with their daily driver “off-road” mall cruisers.
For all the strengths and weaknesses of each. 100 people out of 100 people would rather be in that Land Rover in the event of a 50mph head on collision. Facts.
I mean I don't want to be in that situation.
False. I wouldn’t touch either of them with a 10 foot pole because they are junk. I’ll stick to my 93 Roadmaster in a head on collision.
What happened to dieing like men? 😂
I'm not buying an off-road car for safety lol
@sreilly yeah you're an idiot for saying that. You're roadmaster makes you the crumple zone genius
With the Wrangler you could fold or even remove the rear seat and you get tons of room.
Fantastic informative video.
I bought my 2019 Rubicon last year from carmax for 40K. It has every single luxury option. I bought it with less than 20k miles. for a few extra grand, I've built it into a badass machine...
I like rovers but the jeep platform is better offroad. Easier to build, cheaper to build, parts availability hands down favor yhe Jeep. But it's not better at a lot of other stuff, though, like towing, payload, comfort, performance, or style. The new Ingenium inline 6 engines have been really reliable too. Roman was right calling the Defender a swiss army knife.
The defender is already a off road machine with its air suspension but it doesn’t have front lockers I think
@DiaperSNiFFER I agree and would 100% pick a Defender to drive daily. If i needed to build up a rock crawl rig I would build a jeep.
@@Land_Raver ah I see
Nice review - but you miss an important point; PAYLOAD! Good luck with towing a 3,5 ton horse trailer with that Jeep - or just 900 kg in the trunk, 300 kg. on the roof etc. Jeep just isn’t that kind of work horse - Jeep is a 1 trick pony for weekend fun only.
My buddy pulled his 7k lb trailer with his wrangler from time to time. It made it to 215k before throwing a rod. The shocks were shot all the time and it never got out of third towing. But it's a jeep thing.
Buy a truck!
For me the choice is easy, I'd go for the Jeep although I worry about the long term survival of Jeep's parent company!
Just to be clear... Land Rover doesn't pay a dime in tariffs; the consumer does.
Brother, just tell us you don’t know how tariffs work.
@@Clockwork0nions so you think Land Rover pays the tariffs?
@@CoreyBrass
The importer HAS to pay the tariffs to get them into the country. Thats how they work, lol. Otherwise they’d sit at the port or be shipped back.
@Clockwork0nions oh so the importer just eats the cost and doesn't pass that on to the consumer? How benevolent of them. 😆
Yeah, you have a firm grasp on tariffs, buddy. 😆😆😆
@@Clockwork0nions to fully impress on you how stupid you sound right now... that's like telling me that I didn't pay for my Land Rover, Land Rover did. I didn't pay the steel company. I didn't pay the assembly people. 😆
New Defender and a flat battery = tow truck. Wrangler and a flat battery = jump start and continue. Case in point
funny thigs: correct me if I'm wrong, but I think the defender actually did better on the first obstacle, and secondly on the wrangler I see your heads bumping around like you're headnanging on a metal concert whereas the defender seems more like a smoother ride. True, I might be biased after owning 2 range rovers and one discovery, and only one jeep (cherokee sport) and never even driven a wrangler myself. but yeah, both seem like decent capable toys on screen. Cheers!
Great video. Thanks
I feel Tommy’s pain! He wants the defender to be reliable like I want a Jeep to be reliable.
A Land Rover Forum - Is for Land Rover fans…. Obviously your going to find people swearing by their defenders.
At the end of the day buy what you want and need…. If you need a comfy car buy 1, if you want reliability go Toyota. If you need to climb rocks go Jeep.
It’s still fun to dream Tommy I’m right there with ya 👍
I think you need some caveats. Haven't heard of any recent Land Rovers needing multiple engines lately, but I have heard of transmissions failing and engines blowing from Toyota. People are just wanting a reliable Toyota and not blown headgaskets from the 4runners and Tundras before 200k.
@@Land_Raver I understand your point. I want a Jeep to be good also. Judging by your name I can tell you like Land Rovers. I like Land Rover buttttttt there’s just one big problem… Tfl is on their third.
When the trail gets gnarly, put your money on the Jeep.
Back in early 2018, my 1978 Bronco was getting to the point where I didn't want to put much more money into repairs. I found a 2000 Jeep Wrangler that was mostly built, rust free, but in need of some TLC. I purchased it from a volunteer with Colorado 4x4 Rescue for $6500. I had to have the suspension rebuilt, as well as the rear end. I also had the 5 speed manual transmission replaced with an AX-15 and the stock transfer case with an Atlas 4-speed. Right now it is an amazingly capable and reliable vehicle that I use as my daily driver. In total, I've spent less than half of the money on my Jeep Wrangler than the cost of purchasing the cheapest brand new Jeep Wrangler. There are all sorts of strategies that can be utilized to save money I love the cheap Jeep series and seeing what modifications and capabilities your Jeep is getting!
Should have spent that money on your Bronco and have better truck. Sometimes you should listen to your own advice.
You should add a Sunrider to that two-door Wrangler to make your ride more fun. Also, autoLYNX - JEEP SWAY BAR DISCONNECT big help
I would be torn for the same reason Tommy mentioned. I would love the Jeep, but the Better Half would want the LR.
You should have the same tire brand and style on both.
Do yourselves a favor and get the 2” lift springs for the defender.
Please purchase and produce a video on how to install JKS quick disconnects for the JL.
Hey come to Puerto Rico!! We do have a huge ammount of jeeps in the country
Indeed the Jeep has very low space belong the rear seat but you can fold that seat down with 2 people up front and you gain a ton of space for whatever you need short a kayak.
Wow Tommy’s married! I am old now. I have had a few things go bad on my defender,one of the big ones was the rear differential was making a cluck. Turned out to be the locker and it was replaced under warranty at 65k. I have the bad luck of a rock hitting my driver side headlight and I found a used one for $550 I have not babied my defender at all and it has always gotten me home. I am at 68k now and my wife probably needs a new vehicle in about a year or two and we will probably get her a defender too.
I like both cars for there own reasons but over all the JL price point just makes it feel better ... any chance you can compare this 2dr against say pro4x or Colorado or even a Subaru ... see how it does in it's price point range .... it be fun to see how this 2dr JL can hold it's own and show the backbone of Rubicon ;)
The Yellow Renegade would keep up with the Land Rover
I don’t know about that. I don’t think the renegade has a 4 lo system, right? That will make a difference. Also, it’s running on like 29s compared to the Defender is on 32s stock (this one might be 33s, can’t remember exactly). The tire size and especially lack of low range means it would struggle keep up.
Well that trail they were running during their monologue, my wife’s Forester could easily do that trail. Maybe not the elephant’s foot, but the trail they were just cruising down talking, easy. I was also thinking, a Renegade could do that trail.
@@backwoodstherapy The Renegade Trailhawk DOES have a "four low". It has a 4.7:1 first gear that isn't used in ordinary street driving. That, combined with a 4.33:1 ring and pinion ratio, equals a mechanical low gear of 20.35:1. That is augmented by 2:1 multiplication potential from the torque converter, so the overall potential torque multiplication is over 40:1.
What the Renegade Trailhawk doesn't have is a two-speed transfer case.
But it doesn't need one. It's geared about the same as my '73 Bronco was with 3:50 ring and pinion gears, a 2.42:1 first gear in the C-4 auto, and a 2.42:1 low range in the Dana 20 T-case. It had a mechanical gear reduction of 20.49:1. That's about where every U.S. or Japanese four-wheel drive with an automatic transmission was at from the 1970s into the 2000's. In my Bronco, most of the time, I was running in four low with the C-4 in second gear. That's only 13.29:1 mechanical reduction, BUT the torque converter can add another 2:1 torque multiplication on top of that, so it's like running a variable gear from 26,58:1 to 13.29:1 when the C-4 was in second gear.
Running trails in my Renegade Trailhawk is the same deal. It's second gear is 2.84:1, resulting in mechanical reduction of 12.29:1, but as with my old Bronco, the torque converter adds another 2:1 of torque multiplication potential, so running in second gear on the trail is like running a variable 24.58:1 to 12.29:1 gear.
That's not too far away from the 25:1 compound low of a stock Willys MB or Ford GPW. And they don't have a lower gear than that to shift into. The Renegade Trailhawk does.
The brake-based traction control on the Renegade Trailhawk works very well and is quick at doing what it is supposed to do.
Put 225 / 75 17 AT tires on one like I did on mine, and a FIAT Renegade Trailhawk will handle most legal, open routes on U.S. Forest Service and BLM land. You'll have 31 degrees of approach angle, 25,7 degrees of breakover angle, a 34 degree departure angle, 9 inches of running ground clearance, and 8 inches of wheel travel. It is A LOT more off-pavement capable than most would ever suspect it could be.
Yeah, the tires are only 28.6" tall, but on most U.S. Forest Service and BLM routes, that's tall enough.
I've done the Rubicon multiple times in my CJ-2A on 29" tall 6.00 x 16 NDT tires. No lift. No big rubber. No problem. I don't have lockers in my CJ-2A, either, and one reason why I don't need them is that I'm not running wide tires on a 2,300 pound vehicle. The OEM equivalent rubber keeps the ground pressure high and that, in turn, keeps the friction on either side of the differential carrier relatively high and relatively equal. So, even with open differentials, my CJ 2A will keep a fours turning most of the time and when that stops happening, adding a little brake pedal over constant throttle application will get them all turning again, most of the time.
Most CJ 2's have a T-90 transmission with a 2.79:1 first gear and a 1.55:1 second gear. The low range in a stock CJ-2 is 2.43:1 ad the stock ring and pinion ratio is 5.38:1. So, the overall gear reduction is 36.47:1. The total overall torque multiplication potential of the Renegade Trailhawk is lower than that when the 2:1 torque multiplication from the torque converter is factored in. My CJ 2A has a granny-low four-speed in it with a 7:1 first gear, so it has a 91.13:1 compound low gear, but most out there don't.
I'm old enough to remember when a 10-15 Gates Commando was considered "massive off road rubber" and you cut the fenders of your Bronco, FJ 40, or Jeep Commando to fit them. Back then, lift kits weren't commonplace, The closest thing you could get to "lockers" back then was front and rear limited slip differentials and only Ford and International Harvester offered LSD in the front. And back then, the Rubicon was just another Jeep trail useful for accessing hunting and fishing spots. It was just longer than most. The first time I went over it, I was a six-year old kid riding in the passenger seat of an uncle's stock Willys MB.
That's why I've gone back to off-pavement driving's roots and run a CJ-2A at stock ride height on OEM equivalent tires. I can't go anywhere on Forest Service or BLM land in 2024 that a whole bunch of other people haven't already been to in decades past in bone-stock flatfender Jeeps and if a route is truly more than my essentially stock flatfender can handle, I'd rather walk, ride a horse, or ride a trail bike on it.
I'm not and never have been an "off roader." I run trails as a means to an end because they go someplace I want to get to in order to do something other than get my kidneys pummeled to a pulp while getting there.
For me, the Renegade Trailhawk is plenty capable of getting me to over 90% of the places I want to go and I've got a real Jeep for the tenth percentile of routes my Renegade can't handle.
Best back-handed compliment: "Defender will take you 80% of where you want to go"
To be fair wrangler is closest thing you can get if you want the old defender utilitarian and off road capability, bronco is the mix of the old defender and new defender. Ineos grenadier is just an expensive farm truck at this point even far exceeds the price of the newer defender with comfort of a 60 grand wrangler or bronco.
Great point Roman 😂
"which is better off road" is like asking a guy from texas which president is gonna make America great again. It's not a question anymore ever since the new defender comes out. It has just become another SUV instead a true 4x4 hardcore offroader
Complaining about cargo space i owned an 02 suzuki grand vitara aka 4 door chevy tracker and they are smaller then a jeep. I wish chevy/ suzuki still made them but, the closet rig is a suzuki jimny and we cant have them. BRING BACK SMALL OFF ROADERS
Jimny. It's called a Jimny. And it's really cool, small, and simple. And not sold in the US because we have to have all the bells and whistles and weight and cost and.....
Where did you get that 4 tire deflate/inflate set up??
Offroad capability aside, the Jeep’s top and doors come off, and you can get it with a proper manual transmission. That’s the end of the decision process for me.
Honestly just because I have owned a lot of mopar products over the years I would probably go for the Jeep
Roman looks like he's feeling better.
Both are impressive at this point but if I was chasing cost - I’d be comparing 15 year old used Wrangler, Defender, 4Runner and Gx460.
Can you make comparision of Bronco 2 door badlands 33inch with this defender 90?
Cheap Jeep theme. Add manual switch JK front axle.swaybar disconnect on the JL.
Tires=70% of success. Love to see the Bronco against the Jeep and keep them equal in models..
I had Jeeps for 20 years and even had a 2024 Willys 2 door on order but after 20 weeks of it at confirmed I went to the JLR dealer and bought a Defender 90 and canceled the Jeep. After just over a year of owning the Defender I have no regrets, much better vehicle overall compared to Jeep and no more stupid ducks and waving. Also in just over a year I have only seen five other 90's on the road, it's nice not having a me to car anymore.
I would be interested in a snowy trail comparison, much to the disdain of Roman 😅
I'm Land Rover guy through and through. I am down to 2 LRs at the moment. Having said that I would buy the new Jeep.. at the right price. I would not pay the ridiculous msrp
The world war two jeep has no lockers. GP v JL would be fabulous thank you!.
Why do the defenders dash lights flicker? That would drive me crazy.
Is it just me, or in the last series of videos did Tommy go from looking adorable little nerdy to kind of suave?
It seems like an overnight transformation since he got married.
Marriage will do that…
5:30 So you could give a duck…to your friends.
you're getting head toss because you have 21.7 psi in the tyres and didn't disconnect the swaybar. 33's on a 2 door wrangler means road pressure is probably around 26-28psi if you do a chalk test 20psi is a good start for high speed 2wd dirt road comfort but you should be at 15psi at least for slow speed 4wdriving