Blackpowder Shotgun Wonder Load - Testing the Skychief Method | Turkey Hunting: Hard Mode
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- Опубліковано 20 кві 2024
- They say that if a tree falls in the woods and one one is around to hear it, does it make a sound?
I’ll take it one step further;
If you shoot a muzzleloading shotgun in the woods and no one is around to hear you, will someone mention the skychief load?
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SkyChief Load
Powder charge
Nitro (hard) card
Shotload
Thin overshot card
Full fiber cushion wad*
*The cushion wad needs to be SATURATED (the wetter and heavier, the better) with oil. I like to use olive oil.
The load seems to shine best when used in cylinder bored guns.
Best of luck to all, Skychief.
Joins Muzzleloading forum in 2006 - www.muzzleloadingforum.com/th...
Begins asking questions about load development, Thompson/Center muzzleloading shotguns, blackpowder in general. www.muzzleloadingforum.com/th...
In 2008 Skychief asks about using paper shot cups in muzzleloading shotguns - www.muzzleloadingforum.com/th...
Later in 2008 Skychief shares the journey of patterning a TC New Englander
In May 2009, Skychief asks about beginner kits. He has some friends interested in muzzleloading and wants to get them started.
Takes first flintlock deer in 2009 - www.muzzleloadingforum.com/th...
First (?) Online mention of the load in August 2011 - www.muzzleloadingforum.com/th...
In 2020 the Skychief load is recognized for it’s popularity and a load description is “stickied” to preserve the load for future enthusiasts
www.muzzleloadingforum.com/th...
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Great video Ethan!
'Tis I, Skychief.
Thanks you for all that you do for the muzzleloading community.
Thanks also for this unexpected video, particularly the research you did while putting it together. It was a trip down memory lane of sorts for me!
Once you get more wads, expect denser patterns with some fine tuning.
I always swabbed my bore between test shots while developing the load, as I'd be hunting with a clean fowler come turkey opener.
Please keep up your fine work.
All the best, Skychief.
PS, I hope you got your gobbler. Mine fell at 10:59 Wednesday morning in Owen county.
The Muzzle Loading Forum is such a wealth of knowledge. So many of those old timers got there start in muzzle loading around the bi-centennial 1976 some before that.
I remember asking a question and a gentleman went through his card file to get me the answer. He said it might take awhile as there were thousands of cards, but he had the answer there someplace.
I sat stunned, thinking of the thousands of hand written cards and his willingness to go through them to get an answer for a stranger.
This is why the choke was invented for the shotgun. I have found buffing the shot with cream of wheat or cornmeal helps to hold the shot together. Pellet size plays a roll, too. The smaller the pellets, the more you will have per ounce. I have found with a cylinder bore twice as much lead is needed. Paper shot cups help. Plastic wads is what makes a modern shot gun work so well with chokes. They can get away with much less lead and focus on killing energy. Weight is your friend and a tight load to get that energy up . Try cream of wheat or cornmeal it will help hold the shot together longer, Ethan .
I haven’t been on the TMF in a while, but I do remember the Skychief load. When I got my .62 smoothbore, I did extensive testing with powder/shot and combinations specifically for turkey hunting. I tried everything up to 100+ grans of powder and 2oz. of shot, but found my best results (by a considerable margin) came with 80gr. 3F and 1 1/8oz. #6 shot measured with a volume measure (equates to roughly 100gr. setting on my powder measure IIRC). I tested all manner of wadding including wasp nest, paper shot cups, lubed fibre wads, unlubed wads, split wads… trying to tighten patterns and eliminate the “donut hole” that thick fibre wads produce as they push their way through the shot cloud in flight. Extensive testing led to me abandoning all heavy fibre wads, and using only thin overshot cards. I load powder, 4 os cards, shot and then 1 os card. This load gives me a reliable turkey killing pattern to 20 yards with my 42” straight cylinder bore. I believe blackpowder burns slow enough than a thick cushion is not required to keep shot from deforming, it’s just a matter of having an effective gas seal and the 4 os cards seem to accomplish this. My conclusion is the thin/light os cards also fall away quickly with no apparent influence on the shot cloud. It was after developing my best load that I discovered and tried the SC load. Skychief’s theory of the shot “drafting” behind the lubed wad made sense to me, and while the SC did pattern on par with my own best load (and therefore better than most other “traditional” ways of loading shot in a smoothbore) it was not worth the extra components and mess compared to only needing shot and a handful of over shot cards (with the edges snipped, as you’ve already learned to avoid air compression when loading). I’ve now killed 15 gobblers with my .62 Caywood and this favourite load, at ranges from 8-20 yards, and have every confidence in it. 👍🏻
EDIT: I should add that using a plastic shot cup did work well for patterns in my 12ga. T/C New Englander (cylinder bore), but I just can’t bring myself to use them in a flintlock.
I have a Thompson Center New Englander shotgun. In their manual it has you loading powder, 1/2 in fiber wad, shot & another 1/2 in fiber wad. I read an article from V.M. Starr, who is considered the dean of muzzleoading shotguninng, you can find his article on the net. I experimented with loads & found my tightest group was loading powder, hard overpowder card, 1/2 in fiber wad, one & a half load of shot & thin hard over shot card. I used 7 1/2 & 6 shot while testing loads.
"Capandball" use cream of wheat as op wad with excellent results.
Great video! The Skycheif load has put 2 turkeys down for me in the past 9 years. My fusil likes it with #5s. Probably would have been more but I tend to do a lot of woods sleeping on warm spring days😂.
Great video
Very interesting! Thanks for the video1
Ethan, great video as usual!!
Thanks again!
Thank you for doing the research and putting this great video together! Smashing work!
Glad you enjoyed it!
I must try it. Loved the way you showed how simple the materials and ratios are.
I love the firearm. You have nice things, my man.
Hope you bag a nice gobbler this spring season, buddy! Good luck!
I’ve got a 12 New Englander but it has screw in choke.
I also have brown Bess.
Plus a flintlock 16 gauge cylinder bore shotgun.
I have loads worked up for it.
Nice video! Thanks
I first saw the SKYCHIEF load a few years ago and tried it. I still use this load because it works its that simple.
So cool, love the video man. I’m currently saving up for a first trade gun kit from Dixie gun works.
Ethan, thank you for the information. What I have been doing is powder ,thin powder card, thick wad, then load of shot, topped off with a 1/2 wad . I will give this a try. Thanks again. Good to learn something new.
My ole man did that with the thick wad over the shot /with the thick wad over the powder after the thin one in the 70s when he bought a sxs pedosoli t&t for 175.00
This is one of my favorites so far haha… your narrative on Sky Chief was awesome 😂 I love it. I actually use this load in my English Fowler and I like it
I love fun internet history!! 😅
Thanks, Ethan.
The lengths you go through to provide us with such knowledge and entertainment. I, for one, appreciate it so much, as do others.
It would be great for a follow-up video, looking forward to it.
Take Care Stay Safe
I appreciate that!
Awesome backstory breakdown, i really hope you get to interview him for UA-cam 🤞
Thx Ethan 👍💙🇺🇲
I have never Turkey Hunted using a Blackpowder Shotgun. The Smoothbore you are showing here looks to be a world of fun. But now my interest is getting a “Trade Gun” so you have sparked an interest in me for them. Great Video! Thanks for sharing!
My experiences have been any time I've used a nitro card over the powder I get a hole in the center of the pattern. I now use an overshot card, half a cushion wad, shot, and full fiber wad on top. This eliminated donut holes in my patern. Have fun Sir and thank you for your continued videos
Back in the 90s my friend at Pattagasset Muzzleloaders was shooting his Brown Bess with a wad like this over the shot. When I asked why he told me it was a better way to make sure the shot stayed in place if you were hunting rather than just a card.
Great video, Ethan. I am currently working up loads for my fowler. It’s one thing to read about it on the forums and another thing to see it put into practice! Keep up the awesome work.
Thank you kindly!! What is your Fowler liking?
@@ILoveMuzzleloading I’ve been experimenting with the cornmeal load package and it seems to increase the overall percentage of lethal strikes and the evenness of the pattern. The added benefit is if push comes to shove and I get hungry, I can always make cornmeal mush. 🙃
Cornmeal mush is about all I’m eating this Turkey season 😂
Man, I just did video on this last week and my conventional load performed better than my Skychief load. But I have shot the same test without filming and my Skychief load performed better. I think there may be other factors than just the order of wads and cards. I have killed a turkey with a Skychief load, so there's that. Great video!
The prelubed cushion wads work just fine and since they are lubed with wonder lube they are not messy. I just bagged a turkey yesterday and my gun was loaded this way for a week. It worked just dandy and the turkey didn’t even know it was not olive oil.
Love that 😂
I watched your wasp nest video, but I would like to see your guns pattern with modern cards minus soaked cushion wad as a true comparison. Yes Skychief patterns well, but not a true comparison. Good video.
Thank you! Planning on rounding out as many tests as I can do and then looking at them all together in one big video.
I'd suggest getting your hands on a high speed camera to get a good look at what that wad's doing as it flies downrange.
Just used 80gr 2f 2 over the shot cards the shoot #5and6 and 1 over the shot card in a haywood 20 gauge jug choked barrel and had 16 on the head and neck and 12 on a 2nd shot 1 3/4 Oz of shot,,great video Ethan as usual,thanks Lou Catskill mountain
Caywood
I used this load for early season squirrels last fall. It did great. The only problem i had was on one shot the oil got to the powder and when i pulled the trigger load just kind of "flarped" out the barrel.
Thanks!
Wow, thanks so much!!! I’ll use this to get some more supplies for more tests!
I shoot a skychief kinda load in a 12 gauge I have and it's awesome I use .25 of the wad under my shot and the other .75 of it over the shot I lube with beeswax tallow mix and it's awesome to about 40 yards.
Thank God for the stickies on the MLF!
I am new to muzzle loading, long time black powder cartridge. Shotguns are not my thing, so I don't own one that is muzzle loader. To those who are into smooth bores, try some grass over your powder and your shot, watched a video today where the shooter used that, seemed to work OK. Change of subject, for those who are modern rifle shooters only, you should get a muzzle loader of your choice, it may soon be what you have if we continue with the present regime. This isn't something in stone, but the way it looks at present it will be or we will have to change parties and get rid of the ATF.
Again great job on your video.
I wonder, does the oil soaked wad end up spoiling the powder charge below if left in the barrel overnight or after a few days of being left in the gun.
Thank you. I think it does, I’ve been told one should place the gun muzzle down in storage between hunting days to keep the oil from getting to the powder
@@ILoveMuzzleloading That would make sense. Thanks and keep up the good work.
Good Luck with Mr. Tom when the time comes.
In my experience, if you add more powder it tends to tighten the spread a bit up to a certain point. Im runnin 100 grains of ffg swiss for my hunting load with all my shot out to about 40 yards with an ounce and a half. Im using an oversized 58 (0.578 lee mold from dixie) for my slug, rather then round ball... I run it about 80 grains of ffg swiss. Tends to hit a little low at 100 for me with a 44" 20 gauge barrel.
Edit
One thing to try, cut some leather wads of the usual 6-8oz leather most muzzleloading shops have as scrap over your powder... 20 gauge seems to take a 5/8" wad well... Ive gotten more velocity from it personally.
First and foremost great video! My question is what gauge is your shotgun? Keep up the great work. Your channel is absolutely amazing! Thanks for sharing your time and talents.
This is a 20 gauge, 62 caliber! I’m enjoying the heck out of it. The builder, Brian Kauffman has his own channel where he shoots this same piece a ton. Check him out,
@@ILoveMuzzleloading thanks for the quick response! It's nice to see people like yourself keeping the heritage alive. I will checkout the other channel you mentioned, hope he's as good you! Your videos are very informative and easy to understand.
@@casperhoss2952 Thank you kindly!
Cool man cool. Now do short arbor cap and ball revolvers.
I had tried the skychief loading with my trade gun and didn't notice any significant improvement in pattern density. What helped a little was using a buffer, like cornmeal. Granted, with lead shot, things are pretty good already. But here in CA, we have to use bismuth for hunting. Bismuth is brittle and I suspect that a lot of pellets shatter & crack upon firing without some kind of buffer and cushion to dampen the acceleration. I also have a choked side-by-side percussion 12 ga that I started splitting the cushion wads in half to get past the constriction. I have since become curious if splitting the cushion wads in the trade gun could help the donut problem by making the wad a few, lighter pieces rather than one solid piece.
Hard cardboard wad over powder then fiber wad shot load and thin cardboard over the top ....works fine,I can't see the point of oily wad in the shot collum in the wrong place.its supposed to support and cushion the shot
This is great stuff and I appreciate your methodical testing; however, I can touch holes at 20 yards with my flintlock which begs the question why even bother hunting turkey with a shot charge? Maybe birds on the wing like pheasants or grouse, but it seems like a rifle is a better option for turkey. Of course, if rifles are prohibited for your turkey season then shot is the only legal option. In any case, I love your content! Thanks
Try shooting some heavy paper shot cups next.
They work!
Why don't you try my Texas Turkey Whacker load? 70 g FF, 1/2 card wad over powder, 20ga shot cup, topped by a thin overshot wad. Would love to see your results.
Hey all.... We were going to use some worn out "100% cotton" (from a big online seller) Tee Shirts for patches & char cloth.
That is until as we started the char process you could smell plastic burning.
Took a square of cloth and lit and watched burning plastic drip off the end.
It was stamped on the Tee-shirt 100% cotton.
If you had to choose from a kibler southern mountain rifle kit or a Pedersoli Indian trade gun kit which would you choose? Stuck between the 2 and don’t know which to pick. lol
I just picked up a BP side by side 12g muzzle loader. I want to try roundball first because I happen to have a .69 rb mold.
Before I go shooting, should I have a 12 gauge jag for cleaning? The local shops do not cater to muzzle loading besides .44 c&b and .50 muzzle loaders. So I will have to order or make any components I will need.
The shotgun only came with the ramrod and the wide end is pretty loose in the bore.
Thanks for any advise.
You should be able to use standard 12ga cleaning jags and mops.
What is the purpose of the oiled cushion wad ? Other than lubricating the bore it seems like the oil would eventually seep past the overshot card and the other card and soak the powder charge.
What is the scientific theory behind the overshot cushion ? Does it make a measurable difference compared to your standard load ? Perhaps a side by side comparison 🤔
Great question Anthony. When I get through a few more tests I’ll have a big comparison video. Trying to get as many tests done as I can based on viewer suggestion
I wonder if it is just keeping the stringing from happening until it leaves the barrel. Alot of people think of shot as a flying coud of pellets or like they see it on a peice of paper. But its actually a 15 foot long string of shot hitting almost like a hose was turned on. Trapping it together till it leaves the barrel is changing something, the oil adds more weight to the wad
Try adding a bigger pellet on top of a smaller one (duplex). Maybe 1 ounce of #4 on top of 1 ounce of #5 or #6 or #5 on top of #6 or #7... Doing so has proven to tighten patterns in every other shotgun loading genre (steel, bismuth, TSS etc)
are you saying to add two cushion wads on top of the shot? Interesting 🤔
@@ILoveMuzzleloading no I edited my post... Lead pellet sizes. #4 lead on top of #5 or #6 lead. One volume charge of one size then one with another... Could also get nickel plated lead shot from Precision reloading. It's the hardest on the market and loved by many turkey hunters due to the tighter patterns... I'd love to see the results
@@saltcreekammo I was thinking putting 7-1/2's under the 6's since he isn't even making it to 30yds. if he is over 900fps that is.
Thats alot easier at your bench loading, tough when your muzzleloading carrying all that with you and digging around juggling things in the field. I guess if you were turkey hunting you could do your 1st shot like that n then just carry one size into the feild
@@jacobwilbert1018 two containers not hard to juggle if you mark them.
I also have a Thompson Center New Englander shotgun 🫡
Put a crown on that barrel.
This is the first black powder shotgun video I’ve ever seen so forgive me in advance…. Why not use a commercial shot shell wad? Is it simply because they’re too “non-traditional”, incorrect sizes or they just don’t work?
You got three good reasons right there. Among the many others may cough up is the lack of chrome lining leading to the plastics fouling the barrels, not fun to get out. Paper shot cups are easy to make at home, cheap, and accomplish the same thing if one wants to go that route. The forum Ethan was on, that subject comes up often in the smoothbore section.
Sir, it was told to old time ago. That if you do use plastic shot cups, when you fire off the shot you leave plastic residue in the bore. And that will effect loading and cleaning of the bore.That why some people will use paper made shot cups. Only my humble opinion sir.
As always, great content. I couldn't get my .58 smoothbore finished in time for last year's turkey season and ended up getting my bird with Cortney's 20 gauge. But in service of hunting small game, upland game, and waterfowl later last fall, I scoured the internet for load advice. I tried the Skychief load first and it didn't disappoint. I use 80 grains of 2f and an ounce to an ounce and a quarter of shot. I use the same volume of shot to powder but I shoot 3 different types of shot (lead, nickel-plated lead, and zinc-plated steel) both to increase lethality and meet the non-toxic standards. Cortney and I are pulling for you from Wisconsin and hope you secure some fine table fare.
Thank you Richard and thank you for a thoughtful comment. I love hearing how folks find there way into the right load.
I hope to have a smoothbore done for next season too.
Noob flintlock shotgunning question here... Why would you not use a paper cartridge (or paper shot cups) to contain your lead longer down range?
Consensus is that the paper shot cup is the way to go, I like taking the long way to the barn and haven’t got them working just yet
7-1/2s at that range. can you chrono your load and see the speed, please? since you already have the 6's I would do a ounce of 7-1/2's with ounce of 6's on top. the wad I imagen is doing a curve ball out of the way of the shot.
Wait until Popeye gets you for using Olive Oyl! 🤣
You try 70 grains of powder, 70 grains of cornmeand then 70 grains of shot and then a overshot card. No cards are waged in between the powder. The cornmeal and the shot that is a good group pattern. Try it This is Called a Scream squall Load. You try mine and you'll be begging me for an.I'll give you one.
load powder
load cornmeal right on top of the powder (same amount as the shot)
load shot on top of cornmeal
load overshot card
the video link below is from cap and ball channel I think the last 9 minutes will help you
ua-cam.com/video/iCbK9wHsW_Q/v-deo.html
😂😂
Try putting coarse corn meal over the powder. Same grain as your shot in, then, put that grease soaked wad over shot I have used it for years it stops the halo or donut patern I use #4&5 mix for shot .old shot shells had sawdust buffer modern shells have some kind of powder 1700-1800s they only had corn meal I learned it from my great grandpaw I am fixin to be 71 do the math just try it you will find it works
Got some corn meal this week to try!
It wors make sure its coarse no flower
What affect will powder load have on the pattern? Just wondering if you need to run patterns +- 20 grains in 5 grain intervals. That's a lot of materials, and materials I don't have to send to you, so might be out of line. How about different size shot, seeing #4, 5, or 6 suggested for turkey.
I just read through a thread on muzzleloading forum saying that a dirty bore will change the pattern in a negative way, hinting at cleaning after each shot.
Definitely all questions I’m asking after these tests. Planning on doing the same tests with 60 grains after I get some more supplies in.
Shot is the only real cost prohibitive material for me at the moment, but I’ll have a couple opportunities to buy this June.
@@ILoveMuzzleloading I'm not seeing anything reliable on Amazon, that would make it easy for us to donate to the cause. I'll have to look into making some shot, sizing through a screen is the hardest part.
Nah, scatterguns are easy. Bigger Is Better.
You are often shooting light game, ironically, so you just need mass over powder. Less is more for combustion, I would think at least.
If a man speaks in the forest, and no woman is around to hear, is he still wrong?
😅
This is horse hockey.
2 oz of shot will fill a pattern board no matter what you do.
Find an old paper shotgun shell.
Cut it open and study how it's constructed. You are looking at a 100 years of product development.
This is the best you can do without a one piece plastic wad.
Use cornmeal mix it with your shot
2 oz of a shot I put an ounce and a half of cornmeal and about 80 grains of 2f and my father that works really really good I'm consistently getting 50 or more pellets and it killzone at 25 yards for some reason the cornmeal keeps the shot pattern consistently group tighter
And a thick cardboard
I bought some cornmeal this week to try!
Using a " Buffer" might help. It definitely would be worth a try.
@@larryadams2184
My dad and his buddies did this when i was a wee one. I asked why n they always said because it works better than anything else n laugh.
Do you tamp the corn meal or no?