Confessional Lutherans Considering Rome or the East? Advice For Your Considerations.
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- Опубліковано 5 чер 2024
- These are preliminary pieces of advice and, by no means, comprehensive.
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I have considered Orthodoxy and Roman Catholicism many times over the years but could not give up the Solas. It wasn't until 7 months ago God's divine Providence would have me visit a LCMS congregation and where I hope to stay. ❤
God be praised, and many years of receiving the Lord's gracious mercy through the Gospel purely preaching, and the Sacraments administered according to the Gospel!
This is gold. Every confessional Lutheran should watch this.
You just confirmed what I always think when listening to Papist and Orthodox criticism of "Protestants":
“I, as a confessional Lutheran don't feel represented here."
As a convert to Lutheranism from evangelicalism, we need more Lutheran pastors like you! I've seen way too many LCMS pastors who are Baptist/non-denominational wannabes. If only people could just realize that Lutheranism is an authentic expression of the Catholic faith, they wouldn't need to look to Rome or to the East. And we need more Lutheran churches that embrace the liturgy in the fullness of its beauty.
Glad to hear you have come into Confessional Lutheranism. God's peace in Christ. Who is your pastor?
@@marcuswilliams7448 When I say "converted" I really mean that I have embraced Lutheran theology. Due to current circumstances, I am unable to attend a Lutheran church, so I practice my faith at home. It's difficult not to have access to the sacraments and I long to partake of the Eucharist in the Divine Service whenever I can. I still attend my parents' church but don't commune there.
@@brendonpremkumar8207 I see. Well, if you need help trying to get in contact with Lutherans, you're welcome to contact me through the link in the video description.
@@brendonpremkumar8207 we live exactly like you in Greece. For now, there is no confessional lutheran church here. But, we are supported from the LCMS-Eurasia. Glory be to God.
Fr. Williams, I just want you to know what a blessing this is. So many folks in the evangelical world get so wrapped up in surface level readings of The Fathers and end up assuming that the only expressions of faith that could *possibly* work out is Romanism, or Palamism... Many younger evangelicals like myself immediately assume *all* of the protestant options are non starters without ever considering why, and simply end up papist, or palamite. I was nearly one of those young evangelicals. I was on Orthodoxies front door, but thankfully guys like Joshua Schooping (who is now a dear friend of mine) Wil Weedon made time for me, despite not being their congregants, and helped me slow down, and begin to actually read objectively. Here we are further down the road and I'm in seminary as a Lutheran seeking ordination, deeply involved in apologetical ministry to help people who had all the same fears and worries I had. Thank you for your work for our church, and for the kingdom. Pax Christi!
I would Never leave the Lutheran church..I took a vow on my Confirmation Day and I intend to keep it !!!
Excellent points, Fr. Marcus. I'm glad I came across your channel.
I grew up Pentecostal/Nondenominational, but almost 2 years ago, I started doing more digging into theology and reading into the early church fathers, and after much time, I concluded that the churches that hold closest to what the early Christian church believed was the Roman Catholic, Eastern Orthodox, and Lutheran Church. So I began to look deeper into what each of these churches confess. I started with RCC, but it didn’t take much time to see that because they believe certain human authorities are on the same level as God’s Divine Word, many unbiblical practices have become dogmatized, many of which have little to no support from the early church either like indulgences, Communion of one kind, treasury of merit, many points of Mariology, and many points of the papacy. With so many doctrinal innovations, most of which came about in the latter half of the middle ages, it became clear to me that this was not the faith of the early church. Then I looked into the East. The East had its appeal and I strongly considered it, but similarly to Rome, because they view tradition on the same level as God’s Word, beliefs that are not in scriptures have been dogmatized over the years like certain Marian dogmas, semi-palagianism, and works-based salvation. I then looked at Lutheranism and saw that because they believe that God’s word is the ultimate authority, everything they confess is based in the scriptures, but also attested to many early church fathers. I also liked that Lutheranism was much more Christ-centered than the others. In short, I started attending an LCMS church towards the beginning of the year, went through catechesis, and got confirmed almost a month ago.
I made this channel a few months ago to share more about Lutheranism and it’s catholic essence and in one of my YT Shorts titled “Epic Lutheran Edit”, I used an image of your parish. Take a look!
Very good, and thank you for the comment. I'm heartened by your "testimony" and grateful to God He brought you into such a glorious confession as ours most certainly is. Feel free to reach out to me though the contact in the video description, if you'd like.
@@marcuswilliams7448 Thank you.
Bless you, from Papua New Guinea. Evangelical Lutheran Church the 2nd largest Christian denomination here, and still strong after the millennium.
@@samsonsupaka8716 God bless!
I’m a Lutheran Aspirant at the moment. I’m going to become a confessional Lutheran of the LCMS very soon. Thank you for the video. Glory be to God!
Thank you Pastor, with the rise of Roman Catholic and Eastern Orthodox converts among the young “trad” folks, confessional Lutherans have had to endure constant pressure from these groups and suffer doubts in their own faith. Your video helped remind me why I’m a Lutheran.
Stay Lutheran. Neither Rome nor Constantinople offer more than what you already have.
Very well said. Good we have channels like this, fighting for the faith, Bryan Wolfmueller, Justandsinner and similar ones
I'm glad to say that this video gave me motivation to get deep in Confessional Lutheran traditional books.
I was reading till nw academic works about Luther & Calvin but not getting any deep with the Lutheran tras a whole.
This channel deserves more subscribers
You have a gift of patient, thorough explanation of your well thought out ideas. Glory be to the Holy Spirit for this.
Wow this awsome! Verry to the point, and it touches on alot of major issues. Thankyou Pastor!
I've never seriously given consideration for either EO or RC: neither one is clear with the gospel (aside from other doctrines which are questionable at best).
I came to confessional Lutheranism through a road that went through Independent Fundamentalist Baptist to Pentecostal/Charismatic to Nazarene to Calvinist to finally Wittenburg's door. I've read a LOT of theology from a LOT of places, even from Catholic and Orthodox sources.
Trust me, I know what I've found in confessional Lutheranism, and I'm not going anywhere else.
Thank you for your commitment to keeping Lutheranism confessional! ("Fighting for the Faith" brought me here.)
Please do more videos on countering over-simplifications because 99% of the time, people cannot defend their over-simplified doctrinal positions once you counter them!
Very nice! If we could restore liturgy in all its glory to Lutheranism, then many of those tempted to go to the East or to Rome would not be so tempted. I think it is the over-arching beauty and depth of Divine Liturgy that attracts them. More so in the East than in Rome. Rome is way to trendy with its soloists, women lectors, and attempts to be relevant. But both have serious internal flaws. Liturgy is not something one merely does pro forma. But true liturgy identifies us and constitutes us as Christians. Liturgy is Eucharist, and Eucharist is Liturgy. Rev. Dean Kavouras, Cleveland, OH
Is Kavouras a greek name?
Amen..thank you !
Thank you for your words of clarity, sir. For years, I have treaded closer and closer to accepting the Catholic ways, not because I believe in them (I am a confessional Lutheran) but because, as you pointed out, I mixed the current reality of my national church (The Evangelical Lutheran Church of Finland) to the ideal of our confession. I would never trade my confession to simply be able to be part of a 'seemingly functional' church. Thank you for your words of strength. Lord bless you!
Is there another Lutheran Church in Finland beside the State Church? It seems like the Missouri Synod just recently established fellowship with some Confessional Lutherans in Finland.
There are, though my knowledge of them is lacking due to the traditional position of the state church.
If my current understanding is correct, it was the Evangelical Lutheran Mission Diocese of Finland that entered into a fellowship with the Missouri Synod. My knowledge about this is limited, but thanks to you, I feel a new-found hope to look deeper into the Lutheran confession, instead of looking out at the Catholic and Orthodox ways.
Thank you once again and God bless you!
@@marcuswilliams7448
Very good video. In January, I was contemplating about orthodoxy. The main issues I had pertained to your first point of not falling into false frames. The more I listened to Orthodox apologists, I found myself agreeing with them nearly all of the time, because they weren’t dealing with confessional Lutheranism, but with low church American Protestants. While I knew this, having a constant agreement with the Orthodox made me wonder if I should continue being Lutheran. Their arguments made sense, and I was feeling pulled toward them. The theological issues that will pull anyone to them will be over Sola Fide and Sola Scriptura, and it’s very easy to agree with the Orthodox when they’re arguing against non Lutherans. I spoke to my pastors (one where I live currently and my former pastor in Florida) and they gave me exactly what I needed to know, and they corrected my misconceptions and gave me the confidence I needed in Lutheranism. I took a Lutheran Confessions class (I’m in a pre seminary program) and that helped solidify me as a Lutheran even more. I’m very blessed to be where I am, knowing that I am a part of the western Catholic Church which has been purified by the gospel.
Not to mention, it’s not even clear what one must believe and accept to be Orthodox.
@@AmillennialMillenialthe nicene creed and the seven ecumenical councils are pretty much the bare bones of orthodoxy.
@monolith94 and the church fathers, but there’s no list of each one. Do I have to believe in the essence/energies distinction?
I would love to see more apologetics content dealing with specific Roman Catholic and Eastern Orthodox claims from a Lutheran perspective!
There is a book out by Seth Kasten titled Against the Invocation of Saints: An Apology for the Protestant Doctrine of Prayer over and against the Doctrine of the Eastern Orthodox Church. It is a start. David J. Webber has a blog called Angel Fire and has appeared on IssuesETC talking about Eastern Orthodoxy. More needs to be done for sure.
@@marcuswilliams7448 Thank you for listing those resources. I'll make sure to check them out!
I was raised catholic and left at an early age. Long story short I became a Baptist/Pentecostal and became anti-catholic to the fullest extent. I lumped Confessional Lutheranism as just Catholic. After some time I desired structure, history, and tradition I considered going back to the Roman Catholic church but ultimately could not reasonably return without ignoring their obvious problems. As a result, I looked towards the Eastern Orthodox, and even went to an EO church for some time but I found them very iffy and some of the theology just did not sit right with me. I was ultimately going to give in and join the EO but a Confessional Lutheran reached me online and directed me to some material on Lutheranism. After some reading and listening to Just and Sinner I asked for help in finding a good Lutheran church and he helped me find on. I was Confirmed Oct 22, 2023 and I am going to go deeper into the faith.
Well said pastor.
I am chrismated Orthodox Christian. When I became engaged, I wanted to find a home for myself and my more "non-denom" fiance. We have been attending a Lutheran (LCMS) church for a couple of months. Both like it.
In the past, I was floating Protestant, being a mix of Baptist, Methodist, Anglican and "Presbyterian. I liked Anglican, but they never seemed to know what they wanted or what they wanted to be. Lutheran (at least LCMS) seems to solved that problem for itself.
Most people who consider Roman Catholicism are looking for epistemic certainty and they get stuck thinking Rome actually offers this.
Those considering the East seem to think Orthodoxy is just Lutheranism with nicer pictures. They don't notice the massive issues found in Orthodoxy.
Certainly more can be said in regard to this question. These were just some preliminary thoughts addressed to those making initial inquiries into these considerations.
@Marcus Williams certainly, but for a ten minute video, I think you did a great job cutting to the core of the issue. We can and should reject assumed premises and question begging from Papists.
What massive issues have you found with Orthodoxy that you think people are blind to?
@@MarcusWilson-dd6lc it's a puppet of the state. It claims unity where none exists. The essence/energy distinction as applied by Palamites. The veneration of icons. Those are the big ones I've found.
@@MarcusWilson-dd6lc In this video, I'm merely addressing some of the initial, impressionistic matters that converts out of Lutheranism have when first interacting with Orthodoxy. If you want a further exchange, see the contact link in the video description, and feel free to write me an email.
How do Lutherans maintain Apostolic succession since Martin Luther was just a priest?
Church of Sweden. RC bishops who became Lutheran. Old Catholic orders are often given to Anglican and Lutheran clergy.
Apostolic succession can easily become an idol. The law/gospel distinction is the real apostolic succession. Apostolic succession as Rome and the Greek East considered it did not help them not to be in Schism. For centuries they were calling the other ''heretic''. You know it? Don't you?
With no apostolic succession no church in the real sense. Only the Catholic church and Orthodox church has that. A few Lutheran churches and Anglican church might have it in a mechanical sense but it is not enough.
@@karpov7233 your thoughts are so wrong. First, you say the Catholic and the Orthodox. OK. But which one is the REAL one? They can not be both. You add few Lutheran and the Anglican church. OK. But how can it be as they have so different theologies? Here in the Balkans, most believe ONLY the Orthodox. ''But the Romans have also the apostolic succession''. ''They deny it with their acts'' they answer. Second, current apostolic succession is just a construct based on human will for power. Real apostolic succession is this based on the law/gospel distinction teaching. Neither Rome or Constantinople teach this. Stop thinking formalistically and start studying the different theologies of the churches. There is only one true teaching, only one gospel, only one church. Study. You will discover it is the confessional lutheran one.
Lutherans have succession through priests/pastors as is arguably the more ancient practice, as the duties of the office of the bishop is something that develops and grows over time in different areas in the early church.
Polish conservatiwe protestant here; i want ask you lutheran pastor where to find a webstide that contain documents that are open and free to read for Lutheran confessions, declarations, works of theologians?
You can go to bookofconcord dot org. There, you'll find the entirety of the Book of Concord online. Also, there is a website called archive dot org that has thousands of scanned, public domain pdfs of various sorts. If you search for specific Lutheran theologians there, you're sure to find some good material. I have some things I can send you, too, if you want to reach out to me via email using the "Contact" email address in the video description.
I was raised as an LCMS Lutheran, later I attended a baptist church for a period of time and then ended up in a reformed church before finally washing my hands of Protestantism for good.
Your point about false frames is well taken. I should say off the cuff, I received a great deal of light and grace from the Lutheran parish I attended as a young lad, especially my Lutheran pastor who took great interest in my education. For that I am grateful.
Then I fell away from the faith for many years, living as a nominal Christian as it were in that time period, wherein I did not practice my faith nor actively participate in the life of the Church. I found myself in utter darkness having rejected what I thought to be boring and uninteresting. Years later, I ended up getting married. My wife was instrumental in encouraging me to participate and engage again with the faith I was raised in. So, I did. Tragedy occurred also in my family, which caused me to ask why all the division. Why is it I and other protestants claim to believe in one Gospel, one Lord Jesus Christ, professing the same salvation and the same conditions for which that salvation is acquired (sola fide) , yet we all have a loose definition of what "faith" means and how it manifests itself? We cache out some doctrines as essential and non-essential, believe in the real presence of the Eucharist / don't believe in it, etc... I understand your critique of these Churches that depart from what would be considered normal within the Protestant milieu but nonetheless the question of how you get there should be answered. What allows for something like that in the first place? What would be the normative authority to bind one's conscious in disputes such as whether women should be pastor or not? Both parties appeal to the scriptures, one has a fautly interpretation, but without the ecclesiology and canonical bounds of the Church idk how you can make a judgment on who is right or wrong. Didn't Paul and Peter have to sort out their dispute over the Judaizing controversy? (Acts 15)
Lutheranism cannot stand up to internal critiques that a good presupp argument will make against it, particularly from the Orthodox view. @8:16 is where you lose me, if the basis you argue from is fallacious or perceived as such by your interlocutor how can you make a veritable defense of Lutheranism? This just shuts down the dialogue as the thing in question cannot be questioned by this standard. I'm happy to debate Orthodox Theology and why our presuppositions can withstand an internal critique, and I don't have to equivocate on words that protestants redefine and reinterpret via their own paradigm. Your reading of Romans 4 and of the early fathers like Athanasius might be correct, but it hasn't been proven from just merely asserting the position.
Moreover -- Lutherans are schismatics of Roman Catholics, not Orthodox Christians. Your understanding of our theological positions is most likely flawed to say the least, no offense. Thomism has had a lasting impact on the theological systems of the west, Catholic or otherwise. This is a sharp contrast to our mystical theology that wouldn't exclude natural theology, but also would not accept it as the end all be all.
In short, Lutheranism was a great stepping stone for me to Orthodoxy. It reminded me as I was sitting through the evangelical / reformed services I found myself dropped into how much I craved something more traditional and sacred. The historical witness of the Church speaks of a different kind of body that constitutes THE Church as being not what Martin Luther and Lutherans presuppose it to be, but rather something that is truly ancient and eternal, where we can have assurance that the Holy Spirit is leading us into all truth and understanding.
Glory to God, I am home ☦
Thank you for the reply. I cannot respond to all that you've written here, but you're welcome to contact me through the provided address. I should say, I *can* technically, but these comment threads make my head swim at some point.
Take care.
Why did Jaroslav Pelikan (a Lutheran scholar & church historian) enter the Orthodox Church?
Don't know. Why do you suppose? And, does it prove anything?
@@marcuswilliams7448 i learned today that it was through Pelikan's study of theology & history that he decided to enter the Orthodox Church. It proves that people can change their beliefs.
@@AlanJas-ut6ym Well, I wouldn't deny that people can change their belief. Others have studied theology and history and come to other conclusions. I don't see this as definitive proof of anything.
Pastor, which Catholic and Orthodox apologists are you referring to in the video? Are there specific men you have in mind that use these tactics?
I've run into these arguments online pretty often.
It is common to all, I would say; i.e., those ones most known on the UA-cams.
@@marcuswilliams7448 - cool. Thanks. Good thoughts in your video for me to keep in mind as I explore.
We tried Greek Orthodoxy for a while. We were chrismated into the church. The church is very beautiful and the liturgy’s are straight out of the Bible. But the dietary laws of what you can or cannot are maddening. I remember being quite hungry and wanted something to eat. I had to check the App to see what I could eat that day. I realized that I had not thought about Christ for weeks since I was so busy following the laws. The last Sunday we were there, the new Priest told us that we could not have communion anymore because we were not married in the Orthodox church. We are back to the Lutheran church and are going to stay.
😮
Either you’re making this up or that priest was a moron because marriages outside the church are considered valid in Eastern Orthodoxy
I had seriously considered Rome and the East. Too many issues that fly right in the face of Scripture though. One of the RC mass bulletins mentioned Pope Francis offering Plenary Indulgences *for certain types of people* and a priest on UA-cam I had thought was a good preacher decided to do an entire sermon reminding his congregation that Indulgences are still a thing. So, the Indulgences and Purgatorial BBQs STILL make up for the supposed shortfalls of the redeeming blood of Christ and His intercession before the Father. Some RC churches regularly have 30 minutes of communal prayer for Mary's intercession, too. Many of the Monastic communities have sharp disagreements with one another over MAJOR (including theological) issues . Then there's a very popular Eastern Orthodox priest/monk on YT that repeatedly likes to remind everyone that Justification isn't a legal issue, but that Jesus was just all about people being better versions of themselves.
I can't comment on the RC stuff. But justification is certainly not a legal thing. Jesus didn't pay some debt to the Father, as if there is some divine justice that God has no power over and must submit to. Jesus came to conquer death, the beast we made by disobedience. Christ isn't a lawyer fighting on our side, he is a Champion who took our sins away and defeated the monsters that destroy us being death and the devil. So being "saved" isn't a get out of hell card, but a slow and painful (cross bearing) change into a likeness of that champion. We can accept his gift or reject it, but to accept it we transform ourselves into Him. That is more aligned with the Eastern school of thought.
@@nathanjohnson5554then you disagree with Athanasius and John Chrysostom.
@@dave1370 not at all. That christ took our sins and washed them on the cross is clear. But the legalization on the process of justification in the west has not been accepted in the east. Athanasius's commentary on the cross shows this.
St john uses the term our champion through his 2000+ sermons recorded showing this view of christ
I became a lcms Lutheran this past year from a non-denominational past. It's been the best decision.
Great video
I don’t like either of the churches but as someone who confessionals Lutheran but not convinced of the Augustinian soteriology of the missiouri church I feel like I have no home. It wouldn’t be an issue if I didn’t feel called to the priesthood. I’m currently attending an Anglican Church but I miss my home and it’s such a shame that the church strongman’s a particular view of predestination while the church has been historically undecided, not only in the apostolic and medical era but even amongs the Lutheran farhers
I’m Orthodox. I find the focus on Augustinian soteriology to be problematic. The 1st millennium church never elevated to dogma what one single doctor of the church has said.
Yet this is precisely what the reformation does.
Moreover the problem it creates is depending on how you understand the doctrines of the reformation, there is little margin before one is flatly heterodox.
As far as I’m concerned the Calvinists and puritans no longer hold to the gospel in any meaningful way with their doctrines of TULIP.
I converted to Lutheranism after a lifetime in the Greek Orthodox Church. I can tell you leaving Orthodoxy is very hard for many. It has very appealing aesthetics, claims to history, plus strong ethnic roots. So people are reluctant to step back and take the blinders off and see the real problems.
People need to be shown that what they're seeking elsewhere is right here in proper Lutheranism. But often the challenge is finding the right church and pastor. It may take some searching and weeding through the chaff.
Could you elaborate on the “real problems.” I left Lutheranism 5 years ago for CREC over Lutheran (antinomian practice), closed communion, and lack of infant communion. I started reading Church fathers to clarify Lutheran vs Reformed sacramental theology and soteriology. Well, I don’t struggle with Reformed thought any more but now I can’t decide b/n Eastern Orthodoxy or going back to Lutheranism. Any thoughts?
@@brodysmith8059 Closed communion is common to EO And RC churches too. It doesn't mean you're excluded. It just means you have to learn the basic teachings of that church and take a vow to accept them. The Eucharist is a very serious thing, as Christ and St. Paul repeatedly stated.
The Lutheran churches I know commune toddlers. Infants lack the will and knowledge to decide to take Communion. Whereas Baptism is a work God does, not the infant.
As for the other problems with EO, that requires an entire textbook to cover. Read Disillusioned by Pastor Joshua Schooping and/or check his videos on UA-cam. Or Pastor Will Weedon's 2-part Why you should stay Lutheran" UA-cam videos.
@@brodysmith8059 As someone who has been involved with EO church for over 40 years, I can tell you that EO theology seems unable to articulate the most basic human question of how I can get to heaven. I have been told that giving alms, fasting (using the fasting calendar which covers almost every day of the year), going to church, receiving the Eucharist, being good to your neighbor, etc. will help move you up the Theosis ladder, but the priests always say that only God knows if that is enough. I have been to many Lutheran and EO funerals, and I can tell you the Lutheran funerals are much more positive and upbeat because they have full confidence in their salvation.
It is unfortunate that Confessional Lutherans sometimes try to answer 21st century problems with 16th century answers to 1st century questions. There is something very dated about Reformational theology, because it synthesizes medieval theology with biblical theology in a way that leaves me scratching my head. If I were a confessional Lutheran intrigued by the RC way, I would look no further than their own schisms, between New Age gnostics like Franciscan Richard Rohr, vs more trustworthy people like Bishop Barron. So if the question is Should I become Roman, I would say, Which Roman Catholic Church? They are so schismatic that they are falling apart. It seems that Orthodoxy is slightly more held together, but not much more. I listen to Orthodox David B Hart, who believes that God is above the ontological category of Creator, i.e., God is not a lowly Person (Creator = Creature?) but an Energy, and again, all I hear is more New Age or Gnostic Star Wars jargon like from Richard Rohr, as if Sanctification and Theosis are just ways to improve ourselves by human effort rather than by the Spirit's work in our hearts. So back to my premise, Confessional Lutherans are stuck in the Reformation, and upon reflection, I think maybe that is a very good thing. Who needs modern New Age Eastern or Roman gnosticism, when you can drink from the pure river of Sola Scriptura and Sola Fide and Sola Gracia. I myself am not Lutheran, but Luther is #1 in my book for wrestling with God, and challenging clerical heresies for the priesthood of all believers and anchoring us in the 16th century. Thanks for the nice video. My thinking is that if we had more Lutherans in this world, the world would be a better place.
Thank you for the comment, Steve. If you don't mind me asking, what tradition are you in, currently?
Read Walther little book Communism Socialism. That is what has happened today. Read Walter A Maier Sr works and teaching of the 30s and 40s. People today have no idea
Thank you for your video which, I find to be sound advice. Fifty years ago, my family returned to the USA from (West) Germany where I saw the results of the Christian faith. Studying in both a Lutheran college & seminary, one found professors & students alike accepting as gospel, the historical myths of the faith, coupled with a flat refusal to discuss the actual history. Example: A Mighty Fortress was inspired by the castle at Coburg - which, we visited the day of my confirmation - but, Luther employed a drinking tune. Nothing wrong with that so, why acknowledge it? Of course, that's an extremely superficial example but, what really convinced me to enter the Catholic Church is the myriad of spiritualities or, Divine Intimacies available for everyone. Many times, I pleaded with various pastors for such guidance and was met with blank stares, open derision and ad hominem. In frustration, I once asked if the Lutherans had anything along these lines; and, the answer is a resounding NO. They're interested in being "practical" not growing closer to Christ. The point of the faith is to grow closer to God and such seems foreign to many including, authorities in the Catholic Church. Still, thank you for your timely video. Pax
The point of the faith is you are covered by Christ's blood and this is your salvation.
I’m a convert from RC although I’m working as a Kantor in an RC church for survival. No Confessional Lutheran Church will hire me. I have 2 and a half years left before I can retire. I will never join Rome again.
A lot of Lutheran Churches cannot afford to have a Kantor. Glad to hear you're a Confessional Lutheran!
@@marcuswilliams7448once I retire I’ll try to find a confessional church that needs an organist for one service.
To say that a teaching appears elsewhere in Scripture and so therefore adding a word is just clarifying seems to me to be too glib of an explanation for altering the text of sacred Scripture.
He was translating it. Languages are different and because of different cultures some things are a known and with others they aren’t, and sometimes you have to clarify. Going from the Latin Vulgate to High German and then Koine Greek to High German you would have to do that for the reader.
@@collinlynch4569 That isn't true. It wasn't translation. There's nothing in the Greek that would require that in German.
@@AmericanwrCymraeg in Koine Greek to High German in the late Medieval period yes there would. This Bible wasn’t meant for just clergy, it was meant for everyone to read.
@@collinlynch4569 I'm not sure what you're responding to, but I never said that the Bible is just for the clergy. But again, that isn't true. Adding the word "alone" is not justified by the original Greek nor by the necessities of German. It is an addition and the claim that it's merely a translation is false. It would be best just to admit a mistake rather than trying to justify it either by falsely claiming it as a legitimate translation or saying that it's okay because of it being taught elsewhere in the Scriptures. It is wrong to change God's word.
@@AmericanwrCymraeg Any Bible since the original Hebrew, Aramaic, and Greek have been altered for people of other languages and cultures to understand. A papist will go through Luther like a fine tooth comb, but when it comes to Rome they’re completely blind.
Confessional Lutherans would consider neither.
I was Roman Catholic as a child, studied Reformed theology, became Eastern Orthodox but had to leave because they do not confess Christ as saving us. Instead they believe the church saves us. But Not God. It is our work from start to finish. This is a BIG ERROR. To be fair there are Orthodox people and teachers who teach grace and salvation by God. But most just trust the tradition and do not study scripture or value it. We must know that resting on God for the work of his salvation in us is what salvation is all about. I am seeking to go a conservative Lutheran church but I am not sure if I can find one where I live.
If you contact me, I can help
@@marcuswilliams7448 Just emailed you thanks for offering.
As a former confessional Lutheran (LCMS) I have absolutely found my home in Holy Orthodoxy. I still have a lot of love and respect for the tradition in which I was brought up. I was raised in a tradition that took themselves seriously, and now as an adult I can likewise take the tradition I have chosen seriously
The Old 41 hymnal is the best on Lutheran Chorale. Old Lutheran needs to come back. None of Harrison’s stuff is any good. The leadership needs to go. I’m a Traditional LCmS since birth.
I came out of Roman Catholicism and all Lutheranism is "reformed" Catholicism
Correct. I watched your video on Lutheranism's false gospel. I'd be happy to exchange with you in some way to help you understand the doctrine of the Lutheran Confession properly so that you might see it is in accord with the revelation of God's Holy Word.
@@marcuswilliams7448 I want nothing to do with Catholicism or Luther's "diet Catholicism". Just another false religion 😞 but I personally have nothing against you as a person ☺️
@@Gospel_Street_Preacher It is simply an assertion of yours that the Lutheran Confession re: the Sacraments is a false religion. This arises from sacramentarians because you don't understand the distinction between the manner in which forgiveness is accomplished, how that same forgiveness is distributed, and, finally, how that same forgiveness is received. Again, I'm happy to clear this up for you.
@@marcuswilliams7448I understand fully I read Luther's writings and I also read THE BIBLE, God's WORD. Luther's teachings are not "compatible" with the clear teaching of Scripture 😞 regarding how to receive salvation and the forgiveness of sins
Question. What stops you from falling into the argument that you are holding to a confessional tradition, when this is the claim of the Apostolic Church? What gives veracity to Lutheranism as a confession, knowing that it came from one man, not the Apostolic Council? Thanks.
I'd encourage you to read more about our confessions of faith and adherence to ecumenical councils. Our confessions of faith are drowning in patristics, and were written and approved by numerous writers, teachers, and theologians.
@@ScroopGroop Thanks for your reply
It really boils down to authority.
If I want to become a cop I can’t just throw on a uniform and spray paint my truck black and white and go around pulling people over. I must go to the police station and submit an application and go through the process.
In the same way if I want to be a true minister and pastor of Christ I must be ordained by a successor to the apostles whom Jesus chose to lead the church. Catholics and the Orthodox teach this. Lutherans do not.
You're incorrect to say that Lutherans do not teach this. It is question of emphasis, of course, and what constitutes being a legitimate successor, but to say that the Lutherans do not teach the necessity of being ordained in a succession is simply inaccurate.
@@marcuswilliams7448 in order to be a successor to the apostles you need to be able to trace your authority back to them. It’s called apostolic succession which a quick google search would reveal that neither the LCMS or the WELS believes in. If you don’t have apostolic succession then you don’t have actual authority from the apostles.
What do you believe constitutes a valid successor of the apostles?
@@dukeofsahib4967 , apostolic succession did not help at all Rome and the Greek East from being in Schism. Real apostolic succession is the sound teaching of the law/gospel distinction. Everything else becomes an idol.
@@user-nj1rc9hk4h And yet you have a multitude of Lutheran denominations who disagree what that "sound teaching" of law/gospel is. Imagine if this was the case with police stations. You would have a multitude of police stations in one jurisdiction all claiming to be the one true police department because they each claim that their interpretation of the law is correct. Thats why in order to be a police officer you must receive your authority from the State which can trace its authority all the way back to its founding. You know, to maintain unity and prevent chaos unlike protestantism. Also Schism is a different issue from the validity of a Church's orders. Even Martin Luther was a validly ordained priest until the end of his life.
@@dukeofsahib4967 indeed this is a problem. But this problem is because of our sinfulness. Roman Catholicism is also split in many many groups. Eastern Orthodoxy also.
To study christianity is to become catholic.
Study only Church History, you'll become Roman Catholic (or Eastern Orthodox).
Study only the Bible, you'll become Baptist.
Study both, and you're on the Wittenberg Trail....
To believe in Christ is to become Confessional Lutheran.
That’s simply a false statement. To study Christianity is to understand that whilst the Catholic and orthodox churches have historical claims to being members of the early church, the scriptures in no way demand us to belong to either.
@@keircampbell9374 tha's right we all have free will. Unfortunately most do not use it wisely
I don't think 🤔 so I see nothing in the Bible that remotely hints of Catholicism or Luther's "diet Catholicism"
I agree with you , but please trim your beard , It's a huge distraction .
Mumbo jumbo.
Thanks for the feedback.