Homemade copper conductive paint / ink
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- Опубліковано 28 лис 2012
- Here's an interesting method for making a home made copper based conductive ink for forming circuits on paper, plastic substrates that is pretty easy and inexpensive and has fairly good characteristics - well when it comes to home made inks it does! - that you can try. Sorry about that it's a poor microphone - it's integral to the camera and not very good! Anyway, you need ascorbic acid (vitamin C) - 5g, Copper Sulphate - 1g and water at 70C - approx 200mL to make the solutions and a few drops of gum arabic to make the paint (this is sold as watercolour medium by art shops)
Purchase our conductive ink here: secure.workingink.co.uk/workin... - Наука та технологія
You really bring the right criteria to this problem - common materials, simple, non-toxic processes, minimal tools. Thanks for doing the research and presenting it all in a practical way. I'm _definitely_ giving this a try.
One by one I discover you have a video for virtually every challenge I am faced with. Surely the best practical science channel on UA-cam
Hi, I am revisiting this process in the next week I will put up a revised video dealing with your question
You are an amazing person! If I'd had a science teacher like you in school I'd have no doubt become a mad scientist. As it is, I'm just mad. :)
I continue to find your videos to be the most concise and informative instructions available on so many applications - even 10 years later in this case! - that it really highlights the importance of what you do. Your gift of education helps others create and explore, innovate and find solutions. It helps to engage younger generations in science. "It is those rich in curiosity that find knowledge, and those who share knowledge will stay curious and find great wealth. Pity those who only seek knowledge directly - without inquisition, but as a means to wealth - for they find a life void of them all". May you know your time and knowledge is appreciated, may your curiosity never be satisfied and your life be full in every way. Bravo, bravo, bravo! :)
This is fantastic! Just before I found your video I was mixing up acrylic paint and graphite. I used 1 part paint and 2 parts graphite then just before putting in vinegar to get a better consistency for painting I decided to cut it with my home made copper acetate and it worked well but not as good as this. Thanks
Sorry about that it's a poor microphone - it's integral to the camera and not very good! Anyway, you need ascorbic acid (vitamin C) - 5g, Copper Sulphate - 1g and water at 70C - approx 200mL to make the solutions and a few drops of gum arabic to make the paint (this is sold as watercolour medium by art shops)
Sorry about that it's a poor microphone - it's integral to the camera and not very good! i must get a new one!
copper sulphate and ascorbic acid full details are written in the description underneath the video - click more and all will be revealed - Rob.
No probs in answering mate. The xenon is a high energy light that photonically reduces the oxide. Always good to help a new researcher
hi, hold back for a day or two - i am about to do an improved version of this
When Rob, we need that copper tape lol ;)
Great instructional video. My main concern about making my own high-particulate conductive ink was what binding agent to use that wouldn't render it non-conductive and you not merely answered that, you answered other issues, such as the paint/ink becoming non-conductive due to oxidation.
Many thanks.
glad you liked it mate
Good comment - I made this for the first time about 4 months ago and the tracks i made then are still good - but i like the idea - I am thinking a clear coat of varnish would work wonders - so that's what I am going to do - cheers for that
Really nicely done and very generous of you to share. The world is getting better and better all the time!
most definitely. The problem would be burnishing it over complex shapes. I think that would depend on the complexity. But once that was done the conductivity would be excellent and as the particle size is so small the reproduction of the detail would be pretty good. Let me know how you get on.
I liked the way you pressed it. Great thinking! Thank you for sharing.
I would suggest sealing it from moisture, with a paint or spray if you want it to last.
so you can do it - but it is not easy - if you want further details i can let you know.
Sorry I don't remember and it has been a while since I did this and it was just for fun
There are still a few things you would need to do to it. It needs a binder that will adhere to organic surfaces. You need a carrier that will paint nicely, that is follow the contours of the thing you want to plate like the veins in a leaf. You need a surfactant and stabiliser to stop the particles dropping out of the paint too quickly. But given you do those things to it then yes.
i do electroforming and make a conductive surface by just painting on shellac and drizzling 300 mesh brass powder on the sticky surface.( doesn't oxidize as bad as copper powder) The advantage is, all the powder is on the surface, so it takes less. Also, you don't have mixed liquids that go bad, or the metal settles out.
Once the shellac has dried, you can brush any excess powder onto a paper sheet and add it back int the can... no waste. Just don't brush off the metal on the shellac.
Takes a little practice to zero in, but it works like a charm. To get an electrical contact on the conductive surface. I just use a piece of solid copper speaker wire to make a point contact... no soldering required.
Robert Coyle very nice share mate - thanks
+Robert Coyle this could save me a fortune.....do you make electroformed jewelry? Does your method leave the surface bumpy??
+Nicki Sarra
The surface is not as smooth as when you plate the metal alone, but I can't say it is bumpy. I Do larger ceramic pieces. take a look on my website ( RavenTreeStudios.com) to see how the plating comes out. It might work for you.
Will your method stick to carbon steel pretty well? Thanks
do you make your metal powder, and if so, how, I have been looking at a few methods just looking to see what all others have used and with what level of success.
Sounds like a good idea. I'd be fascinated to know how it works
Thank you very much for your wonderful video Robert. I can't wait to give this a shot!
cheers mate - good luck with it - sorry about the sound quality - i fixed this in later vids
that's a good idea - i would certainly try it it seems like it would work well to me.
You have to rub it down hard so it works well on hard surfaces like shells
It also occured to me that the two metals should have the same relative work functions as copper and aluminium
I like this. After annealing and connecting components, a coating of varnish, nail polish, or whatever is handy, grease, WD-40, should make it last even longer.
Cheers mate - and thanks for answering Peter Stephenson's post on the other vid - i'm a bit tied up at the mo and it was a great help - cheers for that Rob.
it would probably reduce the conductivity. But, I never tried it so I can't be 100%. My guess is that it would depend on the binders constituents. For example if it is an acrylic enamel binder probably not as a lot of the compounds are left to coat the particles - but Xylene or toluene based binders may well work as they have a high VOC content and a lot of the binder fluid will in fact evaporate away as it functions more as a carrier.
I will watch every single one of your videos (if I live)! Thanks for the Corona tips! Cheers from Brazil!
cheers mate
Hiya It's just a binder - any binder can be used - they use gum arabic to thicken ice cream.
You sir know your chemistry! Thank you for this ingenious idea, I was literally about to do this but I was looking for what ingredients to start with, and you've found them. I was about to use some liquid polymer because it's more conductive, but gum arabic would be easier to find/work with as well. I have some pure silver wire I was thinking about electrolysing that silver to "rust" it into particles, but your method is so much more convenients. Much appreciated sir, Cheers! :)
glad i could help - cheers to you too mate
Yep, I have indeed seen Nyle's work. Part of what attracted me to his work, was the use of copper and sulfur... In a PC board, the copper is already provided, and sulfur is readily available. That only leaves the second contact to figure out. I'll admit to having less understanding of the chemical side of this than I should. I'm more the electronics type than the chemistry type, but I'm willing to learn, and If I refresh my memory and research, I should be able to follow the chemistry.
You need to control the particle size to less than 0.45 micrometers so it goes through the jet and it would probably need curing - but yes - definitely
Thank you so much for the video. Question - could I use this to coat fabric, say nylon mesh fabric to make EMF shielding fabric? Any ideas of how could I make it stable, if it is possible?
lol - i did have 2 channels for a bit - one was just for holiday vids for my family - i travel quite a lot.
me too - but for some things you just have to get the pure reagent
Thank you very much for the video! It is so informative and straightforward. A question though, once I have reduced the copper sulphate to the copper particles, are those then the particles I can mix some water with and paint onto a mask for added protection?
I used pure ascorbic acid bought from a food supply company and reagent grade copper sulphate from a chemical supply company which I suppose is why I got good results. It took weeks to oxidise
Would stretching it help do you think?
@Mr. Smith.... I can only say God bless you and keep you in good grace. You are truly appreciated. When the time comes, someone will reach out to you and offer you great abundance for just being you. Keep being you:))
i haven't. But repeated bending would result in cracking for sure
very interesting concept Robert thanks for sharing it with us!
Fabulous idea Robert. Please could you advise me how or if I could make this work with bathroom sealant?
HP are using TiO2 in their device which makes sense as shifting the oxygen valencies would affect resistance. Nyle Steiner on his page sparkbangbuzz has done some stuff on sulphur-copper based memristors if you haven't seen it. The active materials seem to be sulphides and the structure seems to be of the MEM diode type where good ohmic contact of one electrode and a schottky barrier at the other electrode is important A look at printable diodes might be a way forward
Hi Robert, appreciate this. I wanted to apply this concept to plaster but my concern is if the plaster will render the copper non-conductive. Best case scenario, the copper powder is mixed with plaster mix (lime or gypsum) and then painted onto walls where it cures (which may act as the press?). If you could weight in with any thoughts I’d greatly appreciate it.
Thanks for the video!
So I gave it a try, and as the liquid evaporates I keep finding myself with a cup of green oxidized copper particles. Any idea how to prevent it going green? Cheers!
Thank you for this video! It helped me very much with a problem I am having making my own ink. I will try your method out and see!
Cheers mate, this would be great for plating non conductive stuff - I wouldn't use a binder. I'd spray your object with a surface glue, coat it with dust and then burnish it to a copper sheen - that should plate up really easily and nicely.
I am new to copper conductive paint, if I just use the copper powder with a binder such as the clear glue, does it work ? Thanks.
Hey dude! - i'm halfway through a crystal radio with a set of counterwound pancake coils as the coil - and i wanted this ink for that reason - i'm testing a theory by the way - have you see the spoky tesla radio instructable that's on the net - there's something intersting in that i feel
Hey dude - i like this! - I am going to have a go at making some - I read a thing a while ago about how to make magnetite and i have been wanting some for a bit - magnetic experiments - so now i am going to dig out my notes and try it - Cheers
Excellent video. I have been looking for something like this for a long time. Thank you.
Bill
Thank you for this video! Maybe another challenge - I'm looking for a conductive paint (copper, specifically) to use as a molluscicide, which means the paint must be water resistant. Any thoughts on a water-resistant copper paint? Thank you!
Hello Robert, I have a quick question. Can I fill "silver nanoparticles ink for inkjet" in a gel pen and use it directly on paper or will there any viscosity modifiers needed?
Huge thanks. My chemistry and metallurgy are appalling (electronics and code are my thing). However, between the Cody's lab and this video - I not only predicted the precipitate, but your explanation of annealing led me to making a bit of a leap - I get cold forging, forging, annealing, metal crystals, brittle vs bendy and so on. Thanks!!
Now some thoughts - chemical annealing - any way to do that or am I dreaming? I could see how a mangle could be repurposed for pressure annealing. I'm kind of thinking now in terms of alloys/materials with low annealing temperatures and good conductivity - Ie plotting those on a graph, combine with a phase state change plot, and that's probably where you get to conductive filaments.
very cool mate - cheers
mechanochemical synthesis might be a way to go mate - it is an interesting concept and quite a few papers are available on google scholar
😊@@Orionrobots
By the time you are mechanically annealing it - it isn't copper sulphate. It has been reduced to copper. The anneaaling flattens it and compresses the particles thereby reducing the surface area available for oxidation and that's what improves conductivity and makes it last longer
Could you suggest a material for suspending the copper particles which could withstand a sulfuric acid plating bath?
Curious about the annealing. Is there a molecular change to the copper sulfate after it is mechanically annealed? Why does flattening the copper make it last longer?
enjoyed you shows, this is just what i was looking for, also enjoyed the show on brush electroplating, as i see that the two can be used together. If you use the "copper ink" and smear and squeeze it though a via or though hole in a double sided pcb, burnished as best you can on the out sides and cured with a heat gun then proceded to do the copper brush plating you just created a copper plated via ever so simply. At least that would be my best guest. thanks and keep it up
Nice find! I like the way you pressed it dry. Very inventive! You may want to seal it from moisture for long like though. Thank you for Sharing!
could i use this to reapair a heated rear window in a car ?
it would need to be waterproof so perhaps i could mix it with an automotive clear lacquer spray can (spraying the can into a vessel to get the paint out) ?
Robert, I tryed just with satured solutions of CuSO4 and ascorbic acid. Tomorow I will do with your values 1 and 5g. I need a substitute of Copper hipophosphite in hole plate metalization in printed circuit boards, I think that is good enough. I am reading your books, its fine.
Hiya mate, the best answer to all your questions is to make a bit and see.
Would you get more conductivity by adding graphene powder to the mix?
excellent and impressive process. thanks for it, can we use this Technic for silver, if yes,
what will be the base and acid
Thank you for this incredible video, unfortunatelly i did not understand what you used for ink liquid because of the bad sound quality? Could you post it again? By the way, you might try a hot iron on your copper lines to get the last moisture out and flatten the lines, also UV curing nail polish works perfectly well for sealing the lines.
unfortunately the copper particle size is going to be the same size as the powdered iron.
There are ways to do this - but, the problems with nanoparticles are that as the size decreases the volume to surface area ratio increases dramatically and therefore so does their reactivity in air. Some nanoparticles are so unstable as to be pyrophoric - like iron. Aluminium is so reactive when in nanoparticle formulation that the military have been looking at it as a possible bullet primer and rocket fuel. The commonly used precursor is aluminium hydride which is reduced in an oxalic acid
will you please do a voice over. I could really use the information in video format but the audio is impossible to make out what you're saying. Thanks
I wonder what you could use the vitamin C sulphate solution for, so it's not just wasted?
Hello Robert...what is the name of the substance used as a binder? Thank you in advance?
Would a clear enamel binder work with this type of copper particulate?
Thank you Sir.
Can I use Citric Acid instead? The local departmental store has a Citric Acid. But here in Sydney, I have to order Ascorbic acid and it would take time + postage.
Wow! Thanks for the quick response! Maybe you could help me with this problem - I just tried to make the paint in this video, and I got to pouring off the liquid, but I can't see how you got the copper nano-particles totally dry. I tried boiling off the liquid, but that didn't work. Leaving it open to dry off is just going to make the copper oxidize. What am I missing?
Thanks Sir, Now I will have to go down-town for ascorbic acid.
I have a question my laptop keyboard buses have broken can I repair through this conductive ink?
Thanks.
okay sorry i didnt catch the part where you said "you can use different things".. but what different things?
Nice Robert!
If it can be soldered to and it seems likely after you pressured it into metallic copper one could maybe make rather nice PC boards with no etching.
that would be cool lol
certainly - but not that well because of all the additives in them. Ascorbic acid is freely available as a food additive though and yo can order it on the net.
Hello Mr. Smith,
Thanks for sharing.
Is there anyway you could list the ingredients/compounds above on your description?
I hate to say, but, for some reason your audio is very distorted?
Son I tried this I use root killer and vitamin C which I bought from a Whole Foods Pl. so not sure if it’s the same as a the score big acid I would buy from a lab supply store but I got no reaction I’m not liquid still blue and I don’t know what I did wrong or what I could be doing wrong I’ll miss do you have any suggestions of what I might be doing right took a gram of threw killer and 5 g of the vitamin C and got no reaction whatsoever the water still light blue and no reaction help please
I am wondering if say you dissolved copper formate in pure formic acid, could you use that as an electrolite for copper plating the surface with out a chance of the copper nano particles in your paint oxidizing, allowing one to form a solid copper trace from the painted copper nano particles, additionally I have been looking at other methods of making fine metal powders that are protected from oxidation while bringing them down to a fine powdery size, mostly for making electroplating level coatings out of substances that normally would be very hard to either tin a surface with (heating and melting a thin layer over as we do to tin a soldering iron tip) or electroplating them, like with bismuth, using complex compounds such as the hard to maintain bismuth chloride that readily converts to bismuth oxy-chloride and when used to plate with, forms a dark black matt finished coating, unfortunately.
I'm a little confused. If the copper trace you produce at the end of the video is just a layer of pure (or relatively pure) copper, then what prevents the top surface of it from oxidizing with the air over time and becoming non-conductive to contact?
It would make a good electroplating bath solution
Boiling them would just oxidise them. Pour off the excess fluid and mix them with gum arabic let them dry naturally then burnish to a bright copper. Only prepare as much as you need. The particles are so small they will oxidise quickly and if you leave them uncovered for any length of time they will oxidise to red copper oxide then black. If they have gone red you can reduce them by using a xenon camera flash. If they are black they are ruined hope this helps
It would be possible to use this ink in ink jet printers to print electronic circuits?
Thank you for posting your method here .I have been looking for a cheap source of conductive paint for a long time, I was wondering have you tried to do any electroforming using this paint on organic materials? That is what my end use it going to be though I think I will definitely try this out thanks again :)
thank you Mr. Robert Murray-Smith
can you please Provide me after i already collect eh Nano Copper what substance can i added to make it shining copper Paint its important to me , i have asked you for the Material to Add you have told Me use Arabic Glue and till now it work but if you please i need to Make a shining Line . you are doing really Great things and you are Amazing .
I have tried this experiment twice, and both times I am able to get a conductive paint, but the resistance is always in excess of 1 kΩ. Maybe my problem is that I have let it oxidize too much, but a couple of things I noticed were that (1) there were always trace amounts of the liquid (which I think is sulfuric acid mixed in with the decomposition products of the ascorbic acid) which I could not separate from the copper, and (2) my ascorbic acid tablets are orange. Maybe premature oxidization?
Do you think Citric Acid can replace the Ascorbic, the quality you need is the acidity not the vitamin C content is that correct? Tidbit I picked up..
Chemically, the only difference between ascorbic acid and citric acid is one additional oxygen atom in citric acid.
Does your ink create voltage when a magnet passes close to it?
I have seen it now lol. It is really interesting indeed. It seems very sensitive. I will take a look at some other video when i''m back from work ;) I wish you will show yours when it's done .
Great video, I just managed to make it myself the copper ink and it works! But i have one question- What liquid I got when I mix copper sulphate and vitamin C in water (CuS04*5H2O + C6H8O6 + H2O). Is it poisonous, can I just spil it in the sink with no wonder. I know that copper sulphate is poisonous and vitamin C is not. Please advise.
What happens if you pull the "inked" paper quickly through a solder pot, does the circuit get coated without the molten solder binding to the paper or burning it? Even flowing the liquid solder over your circuit may be enough to tin all of it.
+Daniel Matthews i don't know - but it is a good question - give it a go and let me know how you get on
nothing. You would have to make your connections and overpaint with laquer.
Hi , would be nice if you can list all ingredients in writing please and a soars where can this be perches .
Thank you so much
Thanks for this great video! Does anyone knows if this kind of ink is suitable for ink-jet printer?
Great Video!
I was looking into the annealing process. And it struck me that a laser printer could be helpful. The fuser gets up to about 200c. There might not be enough heat to completely anneal the ink maybe the combination of heat and the fuser rollers compression could yield a faster dry time with at least partial annealing.
Also if you kept the toner in the process a (printing twice once before and after it could print below and cover the traces. Unsure of the oxidation effects of toner but could be a fun thing to test.
How thick is the paint after application. Is it thick and raised off the paper?
Thank you again,
Joe
It's not that thick - i like the idea and will try it
Can you please share any good worked experiments which is to make sure it nano conductive inks .
Kindly send me any paperwork drive link ...
Thanks
The gum is water based if you dry the particles they will oxidise
Hi dear, your video was wonderful. I have a question, if we have a mixture of sulfates solution (copper sulfate, iron sulfate, cobalt sulfate, tin sulfate, nickel sulfate), could reduce all of them by ascorbic acid ? or only copper sulfate reduce ? is there a stronger reducing agent to reduce all of these element ? Thank you.