My Karl Fran’s theory: During the End Times when Karl is nearly dead, he’s holding Ghal Maraz and gets powered up like Dragonball Z and becomes the Celestial Incarnate when Teclis releases the winds of magic from the Vortex. My theory is that a large part of Karl Franz’s ‘soul’ was intwined with Ghal Maraz itself. Thus why his body lied dormant in the Sigmarabulum. And reuniting the reforged body with Ghal Maraz made Karl’s soul somewhat whole again.
I like the implication that he is Karl Franz. I would like them do a little more with a bridge between the Old World and the Mortal Realms... but not too much! The only character that seems to have a real solid memory of the Old World (outside of Sigmar and high ranking demons) is Gotrek. Everyone else like the Mortarchs etc... seem to only "half remember as if in a dream". It's an interesting little narrative device.
I think he's both. Both a Frankenstein monster of souls and both Karl Franz. He is a mass created from the greatest heroes of the empire like Karl, Magnus, Boris Todbringer, Balthazar Gelt... etc.
I like to think of Celestant-Prime like the Legion of the Damned of the AoS Universe: he appears with a deafening thunderclap and shines with brilliant radiance to turn the tide of the battle when all seems lost. With impossible speed he lays low hordes of Chaos and just as quickly he is gone in a blinding flash, leaving behind only an after-image of Sigmar's might made manifest. Silence descends over a battlefield strewn with the corpses of Sigmar's enemies and those remaining of his loyal servants, kneeling in fealty and giving praise for His divine intervention, that they may continue to wage war that day.
I always thought of him as Sigmars attempt to make an avatar. He put his essence in him but it wouldn’t come to life till it had the hammer which was a big part of sigmar. This way he could help fight chaos much like Nagash does threw a avatar and not have to risk himself
Something I'm surprised you didn't address is that, after the Great Necroquake, everyone's Sacrosanct Chambers were opened and now they too have the authority to rip the souls from Chaos and Death alike to see how many are worthy to be reforged. Alas, as noted, the amount of redeemed individual (currently) is less than the total of Lord-Exorcists in all the Stormhosts. I mean, yes, the whole "Celestant Prime has his divine authority to redeem souls - why?" question is still valid, but I think that point has become more muted since, well, everyone has Lord-Exorcists with Redemption Staves now.
*shrug* im not an encyclopedia, just a passionate presenter ;) While I agree that I should have mentioned the Lord-Exorcists, I disagree that the idea of divine authority is muted. It is still paramount to the identity of Stormcast.
I think it would be cool if it was Karl Franz. I like the idea that he fought against chaos in the end time but obviously failed so he gets some revenge and justice in AOS. Maybe he is all robot like since from the fall of the old world sigmar had trouble either finding or figuring out what to do with his soul and it messed him up a bit.
That would be awesome for sure. like he's damaged in some fundamental way. I want a Black Library novel just called "Fixing Franz" where they put him back together
Perhaps it could play as a ptsd type of thing. Franz did fail in his ultimate goal as emperor. Perhaps the reason he would behave like an automaton is just him focusing only on his task as Sigmar's will incarnate. As if the moment he stops and recalls he's just reminded of his failure. (Which honestly is no fault of his own. He put up the battle to end all battles.)
The Celestant-Prime is a pretty darn cool guy, but I always forget about him in the range of huge centerpiece models. I like him being this austere, mysterious creature who needs not explain himself. He’s sort of a manifestation of “Sigmar has a greater plan for you” but in the form of a blazing comet-tailed decimator. The idea of him creating Redeemed Stormcast heroes is awesome, and really weaves interestingly into the politics and relationships between the leaders of my own Stormhost (one of which is a Lord-Arcanum who used to be a Tzeentchian sorcerer). The fact that these characters return as Knights and not typically Liberators and ground-level units is super interesting. Not only are these characters good enough to be redeemed, but they show so much promise as to be able to jump the queue in a sense. And I imagine a whole lot of Primes not being happy about that sort of deal. My favorite aspect about him is the ability to take on any heraldry. That’s GW giving me a completely legitimate pass to paint this guy however I want. I wish similarly characters in 40K could do this, like Saint Celestine (who I plan to paint to fit with the rest of my Sisters). Him as a bearer of that heraldry is pretty cool, as it really shows him as being one with all the Stormhosts. As isolated as he is in his mystery and connection with Sigmar, he is one with his Stormcast brethren through the shared goal of beating Chaos and showing off all the range of colors of Azyr. As for theories, I think he’s an amalgamation of all the Emperors after Sigmar himself. Not just Karl Franz, but all his predecessors. I imagine somehow such strong souls as theirs could maybe survive the End Times. I mean, Alarielle wasn’t a god back in the Old World, but she was a Queen...
Two ideas that are kind of the same: the Celestant Prime is "Sigmar". Not actually Sigmar himself, but kind of like how a Chaos God creates demons with a small portion of their essence, Sigmar created CP by channeling part of himself. Or he is Ghal Moraz given form. Ghal Moraz is a ancient artifact from the World that was and an object of divine power. Maybe it is like the One Ring or other artifacts of power and it has a will of it's own and that will acts through the otherwise inert body of the CP.
@@koujow Actually you are pretty much spot on. Part of the reasoning behind SE was to give Sigmar and the Order GA their own versions of celestial demons to go toe-to-toe with all the demons, undead and unhanced mortals Chaos and Death could throw at them and be a counterpart to them. While they were all once mortals they are now closer to demons of Sigmar than anything.
I think its Valten, Sigmars champion, chosen and or exalted. I don't think its Karl Franz because as i see it, he and Sigmar became one, think of Arthas Menethil.
I don't think so. Especially after Valten's rather pitiful end in bot Storm of Chaos and the End Times. He just isn't that very interesting, and he's just this one off stand in.
I personally think that he is Valten from the world that was. Because he was Sigmars chosen, then his champion, then his exalted herald. Because while Valten is Sigmars herald, Karl Franz was latter revealed to be (spoiler for the end times lore) Sigmar himself, and since he didn't die since then, while Valten has been dead for a while. plus, why not give Valten one last chance to defeat Archaon for good, since he was denied twice. Then again, thats what i think.
Eh, sounds like it's either Franz or valten and whoever it is had their soul sealed or melded to the hammer. Hell...might even be Franz and valten, doubt it's an Frankenstein monster or unknown origins as that usually always ends up being a disaster at some point.
I know this is a really old video at this point, and I'm not sure if more lore has been released on the celestant prime, but here's my hope. While Karl Franz doe make the most logical sense, my heart wants it to be Felix Jaegar. For surely he was the mightiest Human hero, travelling and surviving alongside Gotrek against gods and demons. Who would be more worthy of being a stormcast than one who fought against the worst the world had to offer rather than break an oath he made while drunk.
Personally I think the Celestant-Prime was actually created using a piece of Sigmar's own Soul. That sheer amount of power would overload any mortal-ish form, the sheer power drowning out all other abilities to function. Using Ghal Maraz, the Celestant-Prime is about to channel/share the power with the weapon. A symbiotic relationship that balances the sheer power of Sigmar coursing through the Celestant-Prime's veins.
I'm personally for him being Settra, but I formed a theory where, similar to the Sanguinor, he's a part of Archaon's soul that splinted away when he went rogue. The part that embodied everything good within him.
Well I can only really help with AOS, but I think City of Secrets is great for world building and Soul Wars will catch you up on the latest story archs :)
Not read that many, but I'd definitely recommend 'Nagash the Undying King' if you're interested in that side of the lore. I get the impression you'll generally do well with anything by Josh Reynolds, to be honest.
Judgement, redemption, and the authority to do both….That’s Literally just Jesus. Games Workshop ripping off the Bible and the Sanguinor at the same time. Also, wasn’t Karl Franz Sigmar’s direct descendant? If the celestant prime really is Karl franz then that’s even more of a Jesus Rippoff. There are definitely worse places to find inspiration for a character. Jesus fills the savior archetype better than any other historical figure, and it seems like that savior aspect is an essential part of the celestant prime’s roll and character from what I’ve heard about him so far. Sorry my sentence structure is a little janky. I never know where to put the commas.
2+Tough the worst part, to me, is that this dude is the right-hand man of SIGMAR himself- the god this game is literally named after. More than that, he wields Ghal Maraz, THE hammer of Warhammer. So here we are playing WARHAMMER, Age of SIGMAR... and the right hand dude of Sigmar, wielding Ghal Maraz... is a mostly useless chump. He can’t hold his own against Nagash, or even a mortarch probably. He couldn’t beat Archaon. Hell even Bloodthirsters could beat this guy in combat. Both the Prime and Ghal Maraz are just SO underwhelming. He should be a dude EVERY Stormcast would want to field in a large game. Instead, I just can’t even find a good place for him in large, 3k games. There’s just so many better options.
So do you think will ever see a Skaven warlord amongst the ranks of Sigmars chosen warriors?😂😅 (Who’d Than betrays his noew master and becomes the most feared warrior in the enire realm)
My Karl Fran’s theory:
During the End Times when Karl is nearly dead, he’s holding Ghal Maraz and gets powered up like Dragonball Z and becomes the Celestial Incarnate when Teclis releases the winds of magic from the Vortex.
My theory is that a large part of Karl Franz’s ‘soul’ was intwined with Ghal Maraz itself. Thus why his body lied dormant in the Sigmarabulum. And reuniting the reforged body with Ghal Maraz made Karl’s soul somewhat whole again.
I like the implication that he is Karl Franz. I would like them do a little more with a bridge between the Old World and the Mortal Realms... but not too much! The only character that seems to have a real solid memory of the Old World (outside of Sigmar and high ranking demons) is Gotrek. Everyone else like the Mortarchs etc... seem to only "half remember as if in a dream". It's an interesting little narrative device.
The Slann are completely who they were before the collapse.
@@nationalmaverick True!
I like the idea of Karl too, and it fits cause he had ghal maraz too
I think he's both.
Both a Frankenstein monster of souls and both Karl Franz.
He is a mass created from the greatest heroes of the empire like Karl, Magnus, Boris Todbringer, Balthazar Gelt... etc.
Balthazar shows up as one of the stormcast in Soul Wars so at least this part of your theory is incorrect
@@SirLing90 I did not know that... thanks.
@@attiladukai2121 He could also have Gilles le Breton in him
I love the theory that flesh eaters are brettonians!
I thought that they were a Blood Angels sucessor chapter.
@@sergiovieira8272 flesh tearers
I like to think of Celestant-Prime like the Legion of the Damned of the AoS Universe: he appears with a deafening thunderclap and shines with brilliant radiance to turn the tide of the battle when all seems lost. With impossible speed he lays low hordes of Chaos and just as quickly he is gone in a blinding flash, leaving behind only an after-image of Sigmar's might made manifest. Silence descends over a battlefield strewn with the corpses of Sigmar's enemies and those remaining of his loyal servants, kneeling in fealty and giving praise for His divine intervention, that they may continue to wage war that day.
I always thought of him as Sigmars attempt to make an avatar. He put his essence in him but it wouldn’t come to life till it had the hammer which was a big part of sigmar. This way he could help fight chaos much like Nagash does threw a avatar and not have to risk himself
Something I'm surprised you didn't address is that, after the Great Necroquake, everyone's Sacrosanct Chambers were opened and now they too have the authority to rip the souls from Chaos and Death alike to see how many are worthy to be reforged. Alas, as noted, the amount of redeemed individual (currently) is less than the total of Lord-Exorcists in all the Stormhosts. I mean, yes, the whole "Celestant Prime has his divine authority to redeem souls - why?" question is still valid, but I think that point has become more muted since, well, everyone has Lord-Exorcists with Redemption Staves now.
*shrug* im not an encyclopedia, just a passionate presenter ;) While I agree that I should have mentioned the Lord-Exorcists, I disagree that the idea of divine authority is muted. It is still paramount to the identity of Stormcast.
I think it would be cool if it was Karl Franz. I like the idea that he fought against chaos in the end time but obviously failed so he gets some revenge and justice in AOS. Maybe he is all robot like since from the fall of the old world sigmar had trouble either finding or figuring out what to do with his soul and it messed him up a bit.
That would be awesome for sure. like he's damaged in some fundamental way. I want a Black Library novel just called "Fixing Franz" where they put him back together
2+Tough that would be sick!
Perhaps it could play as a ptsd type of thing. Franz did fail in his ultimate goal as emperor. Perhaps the reason he would behave like an automaton is just him focusing only on his task as Sigmar's will incarnate. As if the moment he stops and recalls he's just reminded of his failure. (Which honestly is no fault of his own. He put up the battle to end all battles.)
The Celestant-Prime is a pretty darn cool guy, but I always forget about him in the range of huge centerpiece models. I like him being this austere, mysterious creature who needs not explain himself. He’s sort of a manifestation of “Sigmar has a greater plan for you” but in the form of a blazing comet-tailed decimator. The idea of him creating Redeemed Stormcast heroes is awesome, and really weaves interestingly into the politics and relationships between the leaders of my own Stormhost (one of which is a Lord-Arcanum who used to be a Tzeentchian sorcerer). The fact that these characters return as Knights and not typically Liberators and ground-level units is super interesting. Not only are these characters good enough to be redeemed, but they show so much promise as to be able to jump the queue in a sense. And I imagine a whole lot of Primes not being happy about that sort of deal.
My favorite aspect about him is the ability to take on any heraldry. That’s GW giving me a completely legitimate pass to paint this guy however I want. I wish similarly characters in 40K could do this, like Saint Celestine (who I plan to paint to fit with the rest of my Sisters). Him as a bearer of that heraldry is pretty cool, as it really shows him as being one with all the Stormhosts. As isolated as he is in his mystery and connection with Sigmar, he is one with his Stormcast brethren through the shared goal of beating Chaos and showing off all the range of colors of Azyr.
As for theories, I think he’s an amalgamation of all the Emperors after Sigmar himself. Not just Karl Franz, but all his predecessors. I imagine somehow such strong souls as theirs could maybe survive the End Times. I mean, Alarielle wasn’t a god back in the Old World, but she was a Queen...
Oh thats a really cool idea!
He is Sanguinus. Fight me
Dang, I love that it’s a mystery but I want it to be Karl Franz!
Great video! The stormcast videos always get me excited to get reading
Well there goes $80 plus tax
I really hope it comes out though the stories that the celestant prime is Karl Franz.
Imagine if they reveal him to be Karl Franz.
"I am Karl Franz..And I been reforged in this world, just like you"
the problem with the karl franz thesis is that does not come without his mount i mean the connection between him and his mount was pretty deep
I'm pretty sure when they do reveal his true identity he will get his over version of a reforged Death Claw
"i have a very intimate relationship with my horse, VERY, INTIMATE."
- the 4 horse fuckers
Two ideas that are kind of the same: the Celestant Prime is "Sigmar". Not actually Sigmar himself, but kind of like how a Chaos God creates demons with a small portion of their essence, Sigmar created CP by channeling part of himself. Or he is Ghal Moraz given form. Ghal Moraz is a ancient artifact from the World that was and an object of divine power. Maybe it is like the One Ring or other artifacts of power and it has a will of it's own and that will acts through the otherwise inert body of the CP.
Well all stormcast are imbued with sigmars power so on some level they are all a little bit of him
Wouldn't that mean the Stormcast, like the Seraphon, are technically Celestial Daemons? Divine power given flesh?
@@koujow Actually you are pretty much spot on. Part of the reasoning behind SE was to give Sigmar and the Order GA their own versions of celestial demons to go toe-to-toe with all the demons, undead and unhanced mortals Chaos and Death could throw at them and be a counterpart to them. While they were all once mortals they are now closer to demons of Sigmar than anything.
So the Celestant Prime is what the Emperor of Mankind's The Angel/Proto Primarch could've been
I think its Valten, Sigmars champion, chosen and or exalted. I don't think its Karl Franz because as i see it, he and Sigmar became one, think of Arthas Menethil.
I don't think so. Especially after Valten's rather pitiful end in bot Storm of Chaos and the End Times. He just isn't that very interesting, and he's just this one off stand in.
Knowledge is knowing that Frankenstein was not the monster. Wisdom is knowing that Frankenstein was the monster.
man these videos have made me love stormcast, i used to hate them
He is the will of the hammer in bodily form. Ghal maraz has a will of it's own.
I personally think that he is Valten from the world that was. Because he was Sigmars chosen, then his champion, then his exalted herald. Because while Valten is Sigmars herald, Karl Franz was latter revealed to be (spoiler for the end times lore)
Sigmar himself, and since he didn't die since then, while Valten has been dead for a while. plus, why not give Valten one last chance to defeat Archaon for good, since he was denied twice. Then again, thats what i think.
Eh, sounds like it's either Franz or valten and whoever it is had their soul sealed or melded to the hammer. Hell...might even be Franz and valten, doubt it's an Frankenstein monster or unknown origins as that usually always ends up being a disaster at some point.
I know this is a really old video at this point, and I'm not sure if more lore has been released on the celestant prime, but here's my hope. While Karl Franz doe make the most logical sense, my heart wants it to be Felix Jaegar. For surely he was the mightiest Human hero, travelling and surviving alongside Gotrek against gods and demons. Who would be more worthy of being a stormcast than one who fought against the worst the world had to offer rather than break an oath he made while drunk.
That Celestine Prime changing his colors to looks like your army wow that's obviously just a gimmick to sell him.
I am shocked, shocked that pushing sales is going on here!
Personally I think the Celestant-Prime was actually created using a piece of Sigmar's own Soul. That sheer amount of power would overload any mortal-ish form, the sheer power drowning out all other abilities to function. Using Ghal Maraz, the Celestant-Prime is about to channel/share the power with the weapon. A symbiotic relationship that balances the sheer power of Sigmar coursing through the Celestant-Prime's veins.
Sigmar was able to inhabit Karl Franz's body during the End Times.
I'm personally for him being Settra, but I formed a theory where, similar to the Sanguinor, he's a part of Archaon's soul that splinted away when he went rogue. The part that embodied everything good within him.
Would be cool if he had part of Karl Franz's soul and Nagash had the rest.
luuul, thought to myself the other night, that i would ask you to do a video on celestant prime xD
Are you telepathic for some reason 2tough?
yes..... yes i am ;)
I can’t believe they cast a guy as Saint Celestine /s
It's Settra
nope. Settra is confirmed to live, but he's actually been resurrected as a Lord Celestant names Settrus.
Great vid! Ty
my pleasure!! :)
Great video Doug
SUMMON THE ELECTOR COUNTS!
I'm just throwing this out there........ Sanguineous........no further explanation needed.
Not a lore request but I’m wanting to read all these books/stories/novels about the old world, end times, AoS but I have no idea where to start!
Well I can only really help with AOS, but I think City of Secrets is great for world building and Soul Wars will catch you up on the latest story archs :)
2+Tough awesome, thank you!
Not read that many, but I'd definitely recommend 'Nagash the Undying King' if you're interested in that side of the lore. I get the impression you'll generally do well with anything by Josh Reynolds, to be honest.
I have a first print quest for Ghalmaraz! I didn't realise it was rare!?
I also have a first print collectors editions Seraphon book, is that rare?
This action has my consent.
Karl Franz
such a cool model and back story but as far as game play I'm kind of underwhelmed by his strength compared to how he is descripted in the story.
Still not as awesome as Lord Kroak in Beneath the Black Thumb
hahaha!
Judgement, redemption, and the authority to do both….That’s Literally just Jesus. Games Workshop ripping off the Bible and the Sanguinor at the same time. Also, wasn’t Karl Franz Sigmar’s direct descendant? If the celestant prime really is Karl franz then that’s even more of a Jesus Rippoff. There are definitely worse places to find inspiration for a character. Jesus fills the savior archetype better than any other historical figure, and it seems like that savior aspect is an essential part of the celestant prime’s roll and character from what I’ve heard about him so far. Sorry my sentence structure is a little janky. I never know where to put the commas.
It's steera
Such a shame that the Prime, and Ghal Maraz are soooo WEAK in game, compared to other models of his point cost. 😞
Yeah, I'd love to seem him as more of a leader (buffs troops and stuff) rather then just a killy solo!
2+Tough the worst part, to me, is that this dude is the right-hand man of SIGMAR himself- the god this game is literally named after. More than that, he wields Ghal Maraz, THE hammer of Warhammer. So here we are playing WARHAMMER, Age of SIGMAR... and the right hand dude of Sigmar, wielding Ghal Maraz... is a mostly useless chump. He can’t hold his own against Nagash, or even a mortarch probably. He couldn’t beat Archaon. Hell even Bloodthirsters could beat this guy in combat. Both the Prime and Ghal Maraz are just SO underwhelming. He should be a dude EVERY Stormcast would want to field in a large game. Instead, I just can’t even find a good place for him in large, 3k games. There’s just so many better options.
So do you think will ever see a Skaven warlord amongst the ranks of Sigmars chosen warriors?😂😅
(Who’d
Than betrays his noew master and becomes the most feared warrior in the enire realm)
Not a fan of the model honestly.
fair enough, I've seen it without the swirling orb things and I think it surely make it look better!