I fucking love your "I don't give a shit" attitude unless there's a measurable improvement and/or logical reason for things. You have earned my respect, sir.
yes , he hears records but not interested in music and he says blue-rays have high definition audio ,well he should contact all brands that built them because they do not know, well maybe i´m wrong high-definition might not mean high-fidelity or per say good quality sound, he says he likes to hear music with low quality or as all call it low-fi but then "high definition sound ,well where we stand bad sound or the best possible at least the old you know they have better sound and will last for more 40 years and new it does work bad since the first day and will never work 1 year or maybe he likes to hear music once in a 5 years period ,well the same ,this time stoped will be stuck when trying to put it to work again, and because he he´s a young man he thinks he knows better than people who have done it before he was born, but to end i have to say the Fluance is much better than any Pro-ject or Rega , if one wants to meet a average sound of a 70´s turntable with the Pro-Ject brand one as to spend 14.000€ , and Fluance already offers with 300€ more quality than a 1.000€ Pro-ject only notice that is using a OM from Ortofon , but i thought Fluance turntables had AT cartridges ,maybe it depends in which state you buy it or country, the new OM as a olderr brother that made people in early 80´s say that Dual was the best turntables at the time and the cartridge allthough some had dual on the side of the cartridge ,they were made by Ortofon, but the old looking OM cartridge from early 80´s as a similar sound to what today people call 2MBlack from the same brand and doesn´t sound that good but acptable and also new stylus cost 6 times more than in the past and have 1/5 of the listening hours and the new look like the stylus point fell off, it happened to me when buying a new cartridge for a old turntable i have since second half of the 70´s that i have a AT tonearm and a V15 shure needle but i had to buy a AT-art9 for it ,, sounds good but not as it sounded before which was perfect, the turntable is a pioneer PLC-590 from 20 series
@@RUfromthe40s Mate. If you're going to type an opinion, use punctuation and proof read your post before posting it. I just turned 63. I have been around sound all of my life and I'm still learning BUT there are constants that you have to follow. Sometimes bad engineering using cutting edge studio gear can be a disaster. I don't know everything. If you say you do, you're full of it. I remembered the name of a processor called the Sweet Vinyl Sugar Cube. This thing uses an algorithm that removes surface noise and you can listen to your record in real time, filtered or what it removes by simply selecting it on the front. It's strange listening to surface noise and a few pops and crackles without the music. It's not a gimick. One of the cheaper units is gonna set you back $1,500 AUD. If you were doing a blind A B test, you'd think you were listening to a digital format. The guy doing the review said look away now and after going backwards and forwards, the vinyl copy sounded better than the CD. It was great listening to 78s too. When you removed the scratches, Count Basie sounded "released" from the shackles of the time. On some 78s, you had to use the Sugar Cube. Shellac records are often cracked to the point where you cannot listen to them. The surface noise is that bad. Put this processor inline and it is chalk and cheese. I am very interested......no passionate about my music. Cheers everyone. Andrew from Australia.
@@scratchback2001 well i´m in my 70´s and i never said i know it all but think. if one worked in the music business not only as a consumer but playing, recording for at least 60 years at least, one gathers information ,i only explained the basics not were going to writte here a manual of the history of recording sound, pplaying instruments and home audio equipment as professional , so i´m full of it ,what would you expect ,i grew up in a family that had a lot of taste in music as all were hearing music since ever , at least since my great grandfather and my great grand mothers as all my uncles that were 12 and my cousins that were 27 ,this at least 5 years older than me as i also had the luck og being born in rich family´s in a time that even in the 80´s i saw lot´s of human misery and sometimes i would feel bad for others ,some of my friends that we met when we were 4 or others when we were 7 years old, some were really poor and grew up with them none of this friends had more than a radio cassette player or portable radio reel player in mono, so i think you didn´t understand me at all , and this youtube thing as been a terrible experience as we don´t know to whom i´m talking top, about pontuation, writte all i´ve written in Portuguese please as it is my first language ,sometimes i find myself talking about recording cassettes with men that weren´t even born when cassetyte decks and cassettes vanished from the market, so i´m leaving the coments as people today aren´t a litle aware of what reality is and have nothing like education, it's sad but it's true, stay there with the rockets, launch them and party alone, as the world evolves to me it seems more that the whole truth is transfigured, and evolution is nothing more than a throwback to the time when information was only available to a privileged few, and instead of there being a community, individualism is the rule and this happens all over the world in every young man, don´t forget ,translate all to portuguese without using a diccionary and don´t forget pontuation ,if you like to prove others wrong before comenting your opinion, as i said all are the best in their minds and it feels bad when i read that you are 63 as we grew up in the same world and only am 74, still working in agriculture still learning about mechanics as my main hobby either than all related to music is cars and till i was 50 ,womenwas my main consern ,never i looked for young girls as some do but if they don´t leave you alone one isn´t cold to the point of living alone and regecting 20 years old women, or just treat them as i do with my daughetrs grand daughters or close to me, family women, i only start to live steady when i made 50 years old ,stoped drinking ,taking drugs and living like a kid as i kept my 5th wife till today allthough we never married and wasn´t a young girl but a fine woman similar to me in habbits only 3 year younger as i met her in highschool when she was only 12 and very pretty and always around at the time older boys like my group of friends when i was 15, we aren´t married but she his the best part of me and i´m not thinkig of having a 6th wife , don´t forget translate all to portuguese and don´t forget pontuation ,as i would admit you´re wright if you do so
Here is a re-do of @RUfromthe40s post (as rendered by ChatGPT): Yes, he listens to records but isn’t really interested in music. He says Blu-rays have high-definition audio-well, he should contact all the brands that built them because they don’t seem to know that! Maybe I’m wrong, though-high-definition might not mean high-fidelity or, per se, good-quality sound. He claims he enjoys listening to music in low quality, or what’s commonly called "lo-fi," but then mentions "high-definition sound." So, where do we stand-bad sound or the best possible? At least the older equipment, you know, has better sound and will last another 40 years. New gear often works poorly from the first day and rarely lasts a year. Or maybe he listens to music only once every five years. In that case, the equipment will likely get stuck when trying to use it again after being unused for so long. And because he’s a young man, he thinks he knows better than those who have been doing this long before he was born. To conclude, I have to say the Fluance is much better than any Pro-Ject or Rega. If someone wants to match the average sound of a 70s turntable with a Pro-Ject, they’ll need to spend €14,000, while Fluance already offers better quality than a €1,000 Pro-Ject for only €300. It’s worth noting that Fluance uses an OM cartridge from Ortofon, though I thought Fluance turntables came with AT cartridges. Maybe it depends on the state or country you buy it from. The new OM cartridge has an older brother that made people in the early 80s claim that Dual turntables were the best at the time. Although some cartridges had "Dual" printed on them, they were actually made by Ortofon. The old OM cartridge from the early 80s has a sound similar to the 2M Black from the same brand today, but the sound isn’t that good, just acceptable. Also, new styluses cost six times more than they used to and last only one-fifth of the time. The new ones look like the stylus tip could fall off-it happened to me when I bought a new cartridge for an old turntable I’ve had since the late 70s. I have an AT tonearm and a V15 Shure needle, but I had to buy an AT-ART9 for it. It sounds good, but not as perfect as it did before. The turntable is a Pioneer PLC-590 from the 20 series.
Some of us sold Hi-Fi and didn't lie to customers. Instead, we set up components in our listening rooms so that customers could bring their own music (or choose from ours) to listen and compare. We were careful to make every comparison as fair as possible. It was not uncommon to advise or suggest to a customer that, for example, before spending $2000 on a new pair of speakers they might consider moving their turntable off of the top of one of their big speakers and place it on a non-resonant shelf away from the speaker. Further, we might suggest replacing their Shure M75EJ2 with something both more refined and more dynamic. Stand with non-resonant shelf plus new cartridge (and maybe a headshell) might have a total cost of $300 to $500 dollars. What's more, we would stop by their house and set up the turntable stand and balance the tonearm with the new cartridge. They could try it for a week and either keep it or return it. Roughly 60% of the time the customer was totally satisfied. Other times they might say "Wow, that's much better. Now, I really want to add some better speakers, too!" We were not alone. I knew half a dozen other Hi-Fi stores that operated in a similar manner. Heck, we even had our own service department and a guy to come to your house to install, maintain or repair your gear.
In Australia that demo experience was only offered to the rich. Everyone else was told to get lost. This selling technique led to a future disaster in music retail. (It died) Good riddance is what I say. I'm SO glad retailers lost their customer abuse approach. Now guys just don't go in stores.
Many thanks for your OBJECTIVE comparison of these turntables. I'm an old codger, born in 1955, right at the time when stereo LPs were first introduced, so I grew up with vinyl. During that era, no respectable audio review publication would evaluate equipment without TESTING it to verify that it was meeting specs. (I've lost all patience with today's self-appointed audio experts who seem to believe they have such "golden ears" that they can offer advice on the performance of audio components merely by listening to them.) It's good to know that companies like Fluance are building turntables today that are nearly equal to the great turntables of the past (and in this video you show the statistics to PROVE it). Excellent work!👍
Thanks for your effort. I have a 30yo Technics SL-1200 with Sure V15 cart on its 5th stylus. After learning what you did to raise platter to correct ralationship with tonearm, I found enormous increase in bass frequencies. I always thought the digital media (cd/dvd/br) far surpassed my 1970 - 1990 vinyl. Now, they are comparable. I am grateful to you for the information. My ears and soul thank you too.
I have a perfect vintage turntable. I bought it (Stanton STR8-100 Digital Direct Drive) new years ago, and it still looks and operates LIKE NEW. It also came with two headshells containing the Stanton D5200SK Cartridge, and one is still unused. The turntable had all the bells & whistles including a built in phono preamp, and usb output for MP3 copying. It still looks BRAND NEW. No scratches, or dents, and still makes vinyl sound as it should. Everything still functions as it should. It pays to take care of the things you own from your home to your turntable.
I have a 45 year old Yamaha YP-450 I paid $75 on eBay. Paid $120 for a custom crust cover and $100 for an ortofon stylus and cartridge. Sounds amazing. It weighs a ton and has no performance issues. I will eventually get a fluance RT85 or something similar but for now, I am happy with vintage.
My dad was a studio engineer in NY when I was growing up. I inevitably grew into the audiophile sphere, so my library is full of FLAC files. I decided to start looking at turntables last weekend and I'm having one delivered. Absolutely new to the vinyl world and, as a nontraditional computer engineering student, I can't express how much I appreciate the objectivity throughout this entire video. Just subbed and can't wait to start bingeing your videos to further my knowledge on things vintage. Thanks for your obviously hard work!
@@arnelarson2849 yes, vinyl used to be to make cloth for women , body shaped while we listen to records on our turntable ,today women are scary slim to dress vinyl clothes, and vinyl are records with dirt and paper bits when new ,normally they seem used records from the 70´s
U might really like shopping around at thrift shops for albums. I know I do. Look closely for scratches. If album is in apaper sleeve, it is likely 2b in good cond.
Well thank you for confirming that I do not need to change from my Technics SL 1300. I've had it for over 40 years, running it with an Ortofon cart and it still sounds sweet.
I cannot believe it.Have the exact turntable and blue Ortofon cartridge The SL is from the early 70s ,the Ortofon replaced my Shure Mk4 about 15 years ago. 😂😂
First off, great video. 2 things I bought the Denon dp -300f in 2018. Black model and it was set up at 50Hz but here in the US, household current is 60hz. (I may have it backwards) anywho, after comparing the same album with the CD, I realized the tt was spinning to f'n fast. It's super pain in the butt to tweak but finally got it to about 34.1 on my hand held meter. I wish I knew you could buy a transformer!! If so I probably would've kept it. I gave it to my niece for Xmas and bought the Denon DP-400. My humble opinion is dust covers are always in the way. (look at any high end tt.... No dust cover) The DP-400 cover duplicates as a record jacket stand,the base is included. I love it. Why drop a kick drum over a live Stylus!!
I enjoyed watching this video. It was very enlightening to learn how to separate the wheat from the chaff. As the original owner of a 40 year old MCS direct drive turntable, which was manufactured by Technics, I can attest to the fact that with proper, regular maintenance they are among some of the better vintage mid-level turntables out there.
I was fortunate to find a Technics SL1200 MK2 in black (rare for the MK2) and barely used on eBay! I paid a premium for this but the seller packed it properly as if it came from the factory and even included a brand new genuine Technics dust cover. I installed an Ortofon 2M Blue with an Ortofon head shell and the extra counter weight required. I could not be happier! This is a pricey setup with close to a gran invested in both table and cartridge but considering the build quality, the rare black color which perfectly matches my other components and the pristine condition of everything (not a single scratch!)... well... it was worth every cent to me! I’ve honestly never owned a turntable setup that gives me as much joy to use or that I’m more proud to show my friends! Built like a tank and 100% adjustable! There are no new decks which impress me as much as this for under a gran except for (maybe) a new Technics and you would still need to pony up for a cartridge!
I have a 1200 mk 2 in black it is in great condition for it’s 40 years of operation. it has a ortofon mc 10 super moving coil cartridge fitted and it sounds absolutely sublime played trough my valve amp❤
@@ianyates7742 Not possible. You're world 🌎 famous liars. Deal with your terrible reputation. Turntables require regular maintenance. Fact. 4 decades is NOT regular. You need to seek help immediately.
My 12 year old daughter, who is very into music, wants a turntable for Christmas. I still have my TT from college back in the middle 80's. JVC AL-F350. It was a very midrange model that I paid about $120 for at the time. It was fully automatic plus had a great feature called compu-link. Compu-link was something had for their components that allowed you to "link" it to the JVC receiver for remote operation. Remote control receivers had just taken off in the middle 80's, so when I attached this 1/8" jack cable from the TT to the receiver, it allowed me to remotely start & stop the TT- I was loving that. I loved that receiver it was a true 120 watt/channel top of the line JVC receiver with less distortion than today's receivers. I had a set of JBL L100 monitors from the middle 70's. I know my equipment wasn't elite by any means, but it sure rocked the house way better the the Harmon Kardon home theater I have now. Man- I miss those days. Sorry to diverge, great video though!
I was going to replace my Project RPM 4 just because it was old. Then just decided to give it a try with a different cartridge, the Audio Technica AT440MLa, and the difference was incredible. It completely got rid of that annoying distortion/lack of dynamics at the end of a side of album, made everything sound clearer. Won't replace it until it dies now.
Having been into vinyl since the glory years and believing I had fair knowledge about hifi gear, even I took much from this very well presented, informative video. Thank you.
In just the same way as an oil painting is much more engaging than a photograph (yet the photo is better in every measurable way), so a vinyl is more engaging than a Blu-Ray disc. When listening to music, the scientific performance of the medium is secondary to the entire experience. One day, music will be transmitted directly into our brains. Such technology will be even closer to the perfect sound than a Blu-Ray. However, there'll *still* be people who will prefer vinyl, simply because it encompasses a variety of our senses, rather than focusing on just one. A fine dinner isn't just the taste of the food. The theatre of a fine restaurant is all part of the dining experience. - That's vinyl in a nutshell.
Studies of the relation between loudness and sound pressure level find a range of 30dB between individuals reporting the same loudness. In other words, the pressure level which elicits the same reported loudness when presented to a listening panel varies as much as one thousand-fold between panelists. Sound is not a physical phenomenon, but psychophysical. Absent audition there can be only acoustic radiation, just as absent vision there can be only electromagnetic radiation. Light and sound require eyes and ears. I'm not making this up. The idea of "the perfect sound" is every marketer's wet dream--true woo and money too.
Interesting observation. At a local audio club meet a few yrs back, I asked the guest speaker 'what is the reference source you are comparing your product to'? He didn't understand the ?? I asked 'Do you attend the opera? symphony? simple jazz/string performances?' Otherwise, one is listening to THE P.A.
I’ve been rocking a Technics SL-1200 Mk2 for about 3 years now and I couldn’t love it more. Also, as far as I’ve read, all international models of the 1200 series have a voltage switch and can support ~230 V as well as ~120 V
I don’t own the RT81, but I love my RT85. I own several vintage turntables, including my venerable Sony PS-X600 with its Biotracer tonearm. I don’t like the A-T LP 120 at all. The cogging is horrendous. I really like my Fluance RT85.
An outstanding technical report! Professional broadcasters cannot make such a long presentation that is packed with facts with flawless speaking and sentences. And they have a team of writers directors and gaffers and tech asst's to do so much of what I think you did on your own. Thank you for your fine work.
@@charlesonyango5608 so lucky to get it for that! But I have sl-b5 + sl-1950, both with all 4 spindles and Shure cartridges. To me stacking 33s is senseless but stacking 45s is no end entertaining. :D
Same here. I have a VPI HW-19 Mk. IV (I'll leave all the rest of the details out), and Pioneer PL's -514, 560, 570 (the old, good one), 630 and -L1000, and I've gone through them stem to stern. Set up correctly, the Pioneers will all hang with anything being shown here. The HW-19 Mk. IV's a different case, but it's what I used as a target for tweaking the lighter, lower mass Pioneers. You can't cheat physics, but you can make the best of what's already there in a given design.
I've been looking at that table for a while. Would you mind telling me a thing or two about it? If not, no worries. Congrats on loving your great deck.
I bought the Fluance RT-85 about 8 months ago and I am stunned at the value every time I fire it up. The 85 is $200.00 more but you get an acrylic platter and an Ortofon 2M blue for that money. That cart alone retails for $250.00. The 85 is the best value for money in the entire fluance lineup (in myopinion anyway).
ua-cam.com/video/KO3uaeri8_g/v-deo.html I know you can't really get too much out of a video like this as its been recorded on a tablet with whatever sh[[y microphone it has and then sent over the interwebs via UA-cam but here's some Lee Dorsey on the RT 85
I got into the vinyl revival last year. I already had a very good stereo setup and bought a refurbished DUAL 704 (direct drive, low mass tone arm, very, very good turntable). . I clean all my records with Disco Antistat using anti static cleaning fluid and put them in non-magnetic inner sleeves. If I had the money and knowledge I have now back in the 80's / 90's I would never have bought a CD player. . Agree with your tip: changing the cartridge can make a HUGE difference, as much as swapping speakers on your stereo. An average player with a good cart sounds better then a good player with an average cart.
This is a great perspective, I’m running an older Pioneer PL-200 with a Stanton cart and am absolutely thrilled with the sound. Always fun to window shop though.
Hello again! I just watched this from start to finish, and I have to say very well done from the verbiage that was used, to the specific sub-topics of the different turntables, it was a great delivery! I'm obviously partial to your SL-1200. ;) One thing I wanted to mention, if you're concerned about copyright algorithms blocking your video, just go into Edit Video > Visibility (Copyright Claim) > View Copyright Claim > Select Action > Dispute > choose Fair Use Act as your reason, then click Entertainment from the dropdown, and explain that you made the video yourself, and paste links from any other UA-cam video that is not blocked that uses that song, and explain that you are allowed to use it too, and you should get it lifted (if blocked at all). Take it from a man who has uploaded more than 500 full length songs on his vinyl music channel. It works, and you have a right to use the music. Besides, with your level of traffic, UA-cam would not want to lose that ad revenue. You can do it with confidence. Once more, great video!
@Bill Ridge As low as 12hz been detectable under ideal lab conditions. Therefore claims to hear anything below 20hz are almost certainly fanciful. Equipment or recording deficiency could explain the error, otherwise just another false internet claim sadly.
you're my hero! A salesman confessing to what everybody knows, but most people don't seem to want to believe. It shows them they know less than they thought, it hurts their pride, and that can't be tolerated. Face the fact, people rip you off when it comes to money, simple as that. Great job, sir, thanks for your dedication and time.
Agree that most turntables are “the same”, but I also sold hi-fi late 1970’s, top end Yamaha and Nakamichi, and can state that the Linn Sondel LP12 is the exception. I recorded Alan Parson’s I, Robot on an LP12 and Reba Planar II, swapping the cartridge over. Rega sounded good, but the LP12 sounded as if someone had taken the speakers from behind the curtains AND dynamic range extended. I even told Ivor Tiefenbrun this to his face in 1979!
I remember many years ago Ivor Tiefenbrun in the HiFi trade was referred to as " Ivor Teeth In Bum " behind closed doors . Still those same dealers were happy to sell his products . Those same dealers called those buying the LP 12 as " Linn Looneys " . 😉
Enjoyed this half hour very much. Thanks for a great presentation. I happen to have owned for several years the Denon (American Black version you mentioned). I've been quite happy with it. As you said, the cartridge it came with was fine, although I did do an upgrade when I found a really good deal on an Ortofon 2M Silver. Thanks again!
The most acurate honest and down to the point presentation. Being a vinyl lover use to have a vintage turntable Pioneer PL500 and looking for new one I was between Rega & Project but I end up buying fluance RT84 for the looks to be honest, the S shape tonearm the the value for price. Although there is a project agent in Cyprus I bought fluance from Amazon as the company couldn't ship it here.
I have a dp300f I bought in 2010. I’ve always had issues with speed fluctuations. You can adjust it but you have to use a small screw driver on the 2 small holes at the bottom of the deck. And that’s no guarantee the speed will stay stable. Eventually I put in the garage and got an LP 120. It’s what I could afford and it sounds good with my Ortofon Red cartridge. Thanks for posting this video.
Exactly.......it’s amazing how great a Japanese made “mid-fi” deck can sound with a good cartridge that’s properly installed/aligned. I would love to have a TOTL turntable with a 50 pound maple plinth, an Uber nice handmade tone arm and an $800 cart but I can’t justify it.
ryanjofre exactly! I don’t see the point in buying a $1000 TT to play thru my $600 used speakers and my $400 vintage receiver. Would I be happier? I doubt it. Just seems like the only thing I would gain is bragging rights.
I respect your video - good job. Many great points. However - turntables DO sound differently. Significantly different to those that listen carefully. The turntable enables the tonearm. The tonearm enables the cartridge. Put your money into the turntable 1st. Tonearm 2nd. Cartridge 3rd. Once again - great job.
I typically can't stomach most affordable (under 300 bucks) TTs but there are a few solid ones and it was great to see your sensible review. I own a Technics 1200 MKII with a Shure M97e cart, and also an AR-XA with a Stanton cart. Both completely different but great for what they are designed to do.
That was great. Nice criteria. I've bought a small number of direct drive vintage vinyl decks in the wild for cheap: Sonys and JVCs circa 1980. One of which I paired with a new mid-grade Ortofon cartridge. Thanks for covering this. Love the detail. :)
From a vintage lover ( being vintage myself lol) I agree 100% with everything that was said, that is why I own a Fluance RT-83 with the Ortofon 2m red and absolutely love it! . I still enjoy my 1978 Rega planar 2 and my Thorens TD 160 . I would still buy and restore vintage amplifiers over new ones any day, but i am getting tired of continuously fiddling with my old turn tables. I actually prefer the Fluance over the Rega PL1 and PL2 and most of the Pro-ject turntables close to the Fluance price range.. Best bang for the bucks Fluance hands down.
Good choice. After checking and also having some new chinese/taiwanese made turntables, I have ended with Sansui FR-D3. I can only say that no new turntable comes even near to the performance of this one. And the whole unit is very service friendly. I will stay with it for the next two decades. The only thing which will change are cartridge and a headshell.
@@peterregorsek1504 - I have a Sansui FR-D25 with a new AT cartridge. Nice table and I can tweak the speed. Quartz locked would be nice.. maybe in my next turntable...
Finally...someone with a honest approach of your comments. I have a old school Nakamichi receiver of yet to find a decent Turntable for my collection of LP's vinyls. Thanks for your help in explaining with clarity. Freedom to choose my products is the best!
Great vid and I agree totally about the snake oil. I have a Technics SL-J1 linear tracking turntable. Well serviced and fitted with a AT cart it sounds bloody amazing. Behaves like a CD player and is gentle with the records.
I have an SL-J300R and 2 SL-7s, very nice devices, and they can sound very well. They are however not without their disadvantages, for example, during lead-in/out, the linear tracking has to move faster, and is no longer entirely silent. This is something I already noticed in the 1980s on the at the time new SL-Q6, and no amount of maintenance will solve this. The SL-7 over the years maintains a very very low wow & flutter, the lighter J300R however is somewhat less good at that. The J1 is in many ways similar to the J300R, and suffers from the same issue. Good maintenance of the platter bearings will go a long way in reducing this issue, but in the end the platter is just a bit on the light side.
My stepdad gave me his 1200’s for my 8th grade graduation (1994) and I still have them. Both needed their target lights replaced, but that’s it. They both still work flawlessly, and were bought in the early 80s.
I have a couple friends who are audio engineers and they hammer this home. It's all about mastering. This is the largest reason (for) people claiming records sound better. OLD records especially. Mastering. The second lessor is, "feel." There's also the slower process and appreciation for the playing of records. Placing the record on the table. Dropping the needle. It's an experience. It's awesome. This analog way of playing music is a constant battle of the technology. The search for the perfect, cleanest sound. This drives the "audiophile." When really, if you can find a well mastered CD, SACD or digital file, you'll spend a lot less effort and money. I've stood and listened in front of $35,000 systems. This is how I knew what my friends were saying was right.
Years ago I picked up a Sony TA-1010 at a thrift store because I love the simple, clean, elegant way it looks. (Yes, the design of the components themselves is almost as important to me as the sound.) I wasn't quite sure what it was (no model number on the front panel). Now, thanks to you, I found it on HiFiEngine and at last have the specs (15 wpc, 20-60 kHz) and years of manufacture (1971-72). Thanks for the tip!
Picked up a Hitachi PS-48 about a month ago.... This thing is an absolute BEAST! This TT is so good I recently sold my Rega Planar 3. Added a Nagaoka MP-110 and this TT sounds amazing.... Better sounding better looking than my Rega. Vintage is definitely the way to go for me.... Bye Bye Rega 👍 Great video by the way! Haha....right after I posted this video I saw my original post from 6 months previous was right below when I started looking at getting a Rega 3🤔🤔🤔
the only time I heard the difference in sound was when Technics went to a lower mass tone arm tube. there was a subtle difference in the mid-bass area. other than that, I agree with you. speaking of vintage, I still listen to my almost 50 year old Technics SL 1100a. :)
I found a dual 721 and did some work on it. Snubber circuit cap needed replaced which got rid of a pop sound when the tone arm returned. I replaced the cheap plastic base with a big base I made out of tiger wood. It looks and sounds beautiful. I use the audio technical 120 cartridge also. Thanks
I have a Pioneer PL-750 from 1981 , I don't know if it is a good turntable, but I really love what I hear from it through my amp and speakers. Great video.👍
This is the first of your videos I've watched, and I'm very impressed by the way you incorporate audio nerd knowledge and commentary into a very clear and understandable discussion. Also, it's quite helpful that you made a clear distinction between useful minutia and BS minutia. Thanks very much!
We love vinyl. It's not convenient, it's not cheap, it's not accessible, but there's just something brilliant about owning, playing and listening to records. Whether it's the sound, imperfections and all, the physical form, the artwork and the liner notes, there's nothing else like it (no, not even you, compact disc). And that's probably why it's still going strong more than 100 years since its invention.
I do love the way original vintage records sound on good equipment and that for me was a reason to have a good turntable. This is even true with 78's, many of which have not been reissued in digital of good quality.
You had me at "mastering". Nail hit on head in one. A great no nonsense reality assessment. I'd love for you to review the mighty Thorens TD-160 my workhorse for 44 years, still going stong, with a fefurb early last decade New subscriber, great stuff sir
If you’re looking to get up to speed on the REAL FACTS about turntables, THIS IS YOUR GUY! Great video! Keep up the great work! From a 45 turntable engineer.
Very interesting and informative. I can see a lot of effort and enthusiasm went into this. As a millennial that grew up with CD's and mp3's, turntables don't trigger any nostalgia in me, but I always found their operation and culture fun to explore.
the stand alone turntables are a bit boring to me as well - BUT 70s and 80s hifi systems were just bonkers and had ALL the knobs and buttons- the design was wild and the average quality was way better then today.
I’m old and former radio DJ, automatic turntables only, Dual 1218 and Dual 701 (1970 and 1972) they will play virtually any cart. Good luck finding good ones.
The problem with new turntables is that they aren't semi-auto or even have end turn off. I consider this quite essential for a relaxed listen, where you don't have to think about when the record ends. Slowly more and more turntables are coming on the market with end turn off. A lot of them also don't have a hinged hood, which I also consider a deal braker. Ultimatly I picked up the Denon DP-300F because it's a very reliable full auto turntable, the only modern one I'm aware exists. The controls are very clever. You can start stop it without opening the hood. I has also independent size and speed controls. Vintage auto tt's often have 45rpm tied to 7". Quite a smart design. I did not experience any speed issues yet. Thank you for your great and hones comments on vinyl. Most "enthusiasts" are mad in the brain.
A good and sensible video, thanks. I have been collecting analog type recordings since I was a kid. When I was 8 years old my parents bought an Edison Opera model cylinder record player with 120 records. I used to listen to it a LOT when I was young. It was in my bedroom. I still have it and all the cylinders, and it still plays fine despite being over a century old. I have even bought a few more cylinders for it. My parents record player was a Zenith with the cobra changer and played all 3 speeds. My mother and I began to buy 78s at the Salvation Army, all of which I still have, as well as my parents own 78 records, a total of over 200. My 45s number a couple of hundred also, and my 33s number over 300. I like many genres of music from classical to old time popular from the early 20th century, through older style jazz, swing, and rock. When I was in my 20s I bought and rebuilt a stand up Victrola, which I still have and which plays very well. I bought 4 boxes of needles for it, 500 needles to the box, so I won't ever run out. My own modern turntable is a Stanton STR8-80 which I bought years ago, back when vinyl was still king, and which still plays great. I have a second headshell for it which I have a 78 cartridge in for my older records. One of the beauties of the STR8-80 is that it plays all 3 speeds.
Great advice, and lovely to hear an audio person admitting that electronics shops lie! I only go into them for an argument and find it impossible to believe anything they say. I was hoping I could fix up my old Garrard mono deck, which would be a bit of a project, but you make salient points about ageing and I'm a little more thinking I need to save up now. Great video.
4.45 Haha, refreshing honesty. I remember having a heated debate with a bunch of audophiles a decade ago about HDMI cables and they were adamant £100 cables gave better images and sound. Sometimes they are so entrenched in their hobby they hear and see things that dont exist.
For my 4k monitor, it actually makes a difference in which cable I use. My old cable (bought in 2017) can't output 4k 60fps without stuttering, a newer, slightly more expensive one does that without issues. But then again, I couldn't see a difference in the image or sound quality when the old cable worked.
it sort of, kind of can, but the thing with audiophiles is that they invest way too much money into shit that obviously has diminishing returns. spending 100 dollars on shielded cables made of dragon scales and phoenix down isn't going to make your system sound 100 dollars better, and most people would rather just put that money towards new records or something.
Generally in the analogue domain when it comes to video cables, more expensive usually means better shielding and better quality picture. But HDMI is a digital signal lol... I mean don't use a cheaply made cable for sure and if you want a feature packed, up to date high spec hdmi cable I'll pay a couple tens for one that's braided, but the level of snake oil in the audiophile community is ridiculous. Also I'm a dj, cue burn and a little bit of crackle is a healthy part of our diet.
My turntable is a Bang and Olufsen which I purchased in late '77 or early ' 78. I wish B&O still made turntables as I would very much like to replace mine with a new or newer version. Clean, straight forward design and operates nicely if imperfectly. The needle has never scratched an album, I don't know if other turntables are as safe for albums, but this one is great. Being over 40 years old there are some deficiencies - it is an automatic turntable and when the tone arm retracts when the album is over it doesn't raise up so the needle is dragged across the album. The work around is to use the pause function and physically move the tone arm back to the original position. One thing I have noticed is that once recorded on the reel to reel, albums sound even better! Not sure why that is the case but there is a noticeable improvement. I enjoyed your analysis and I will be watching your channel. Thank you!
Thanks so much for the video. I sold high end hifi in the late eighties, and early nineties. We carried Martin-Logan, and Krell as well as Denon, a/d/s, Adcom. I read TAS, and set up sound rooms, and listened for hours well into the night, long after the store closed with customers searching for their nirvana. I still have my Denon DP-59L that none of my tweek customers, who were often blind followers of TAS, would dare consider. I have a Grace f9 Ruby to feel the groove. I enjoy that setup just as much now, as I did back when they were new. You are so right. Digital recordings sound better (when properly mastered). But, vinyl feels better.
Great advice, and well explained I would love to see somebody with experience and good sense similar to yours compare my totally manual 1960s and 1970s Thorens TD124, TD166, and Garrard 401 with some "new" manual tables.
Glad to see a review on the fluance, i was looking at that turntable for a while. I have a Pioneer PL-530 from 1975 that's still rocking and sounds great. I put an ortofon om2 red on it and it really sounds good now. But eventually the now 48 year old turntable will need to be replaced. Thanks for the info
a good turntable with a proper amplifier and speakers(this not spending a fortune) ,you would have dificultie to hear a cd after listening to a record ,for the fact that the record has superior quality of sound compared to a cd version of it,some records that you listen for lot´s of years when listening to the cd version of it sound very bad ,as an example the sound of guitars just disappear and a low sound with no dynamic substitute the real sound of the guitar with the efects used,this for the fact that amplifiers and pedals are anlogic and the conversion to digital erases most of the real sound recorded ,in a pratical example the sound of guitar in the song "in bloom" from nirvana ,doesn´t sound good as the vynil or record version, i always listen to hard-rock and some LP´s from the 60´s ,70´s and 90´s when listening to the cd version they sound really bad ,i reffer the song from nirvana,because they had a version on a sub-pop compilation with the musicians from that nirvana era that i always said to sound much better than the one released in the nvermind cd ,but a few years ago this version was released on a special edition of nevermind cd ,but on the cd both sound bad, iwent to a 2nd hand record shop of vynil and bought for 3 €´s the vynil version of nevermind that i never liked that much but when listening to the record i notice that all the songs had good sound even start to listen to nirvana, another example is the cult lp´s that sound incredible better in vynil compared to the cd´s wich sound bad,normally i search for bands with guitars ,bass and drums,but it´s not the only kind of music that i listen to ,i just remenbered the U2 lp "boy"that i was used to listen to it´s record version when listening to the cd i was amazed how incredible bad it sounds and i´m not a fan of this band ,this are only examples,regards
The thing MOST people do not realize when they toss their vinyl in preference to CD's is that CD's cannot reproduce a thing called "harmonics". That is why CD''s sound so "sterile". Harmonics are found in that area of the sound between the 1's and 0's of a digital recording. Without that area being reproduced the sound quality is just not there. CD's are now getting the same treatment from streaming audio that they gave to vinyl records. Many stores no longer sell CD's or the blanks to record your own anymore. The medium to produce them has also degraded to the point that many CD''s simply won't even play after a while or skip so badly they get tossed in the trash. Thankfully, I saved most of my older vinyl, much of which never made it onto the CD format. I use a lesser known Pioneer PL-112D fully manual belt driven turntable with several different cartridges. It may not pass the audiophile standards of some but for me and what I enjoy from my vinyl the Pioneer does what it was built to do just fine. In the end, it is what YOU enjoy that really counts.
@@richardcline1337 i do keep all my records and only started to buy cd´s after 1993 ,they just cease to sell records,but i still have records that the cd version is incredible bad ,i bought them thinking it would be an upgrade ,several i bought in 93 never heard them ,and i do own a turntable that came with a system from pioneer bought in japan in 1973 but the turntable it´s a bit more modern than the early system´s i saw in canada ,the cartridge was a pc-30 and the stylus pn-30 with a very good sound ,later i bought a technics sl-3310 with their top cartridge but i took the cartridge from the pioneer and it sounds better than the technics one, normally live lp´s are much better sounding then the cd´s version of it and also rock lp´s loose the sound of guitars ,the system was the es2000 from pioneer either than clean it ,never done nothing and bought a pair of celestion ditton series and it sounded even better,in the 90´s i bought a new complete system from pioneer but still the older keeps working and the new is almost dead ,just remenber i also change the belts on the turntables, but it´s like when i hear a record ,if change to cd the sound is bad no dynamics just flat sound and i bought a high-end player from pioneer,but also bought new speakers from mission and it increasis the sound quality, the loudness on the 90´s amplifier almost doesn´t do nothing but that´s not the problem ,most of the time i don´t use it on, also have a 1970 akai reel to reel that still sounds very good today, my oldest was a dual system then the es2000 from pioneer that already had the effect of surround and 4 channel matrix, regards
Richard Cline strange, yesterday I listened to the beach boys cd. And boy, those harmonics were awesome. Wait wait wait, there are no harmonics on the beach boys? What about simon and garfunkel. Or the eagles? Do they also don’t have harmonics? Bastards!
Well I initially thought, blah blah blah, here we go again, until you started to talk about electronic company BS and sales people up selling you to the most expensive equipment, then you had my interest. Then you held up the Farewell to Kings Blu Ray, you good sir, now have my respect. I have the whole Rush catalog on vinyl, tape (cassette and 1/4"), CD and incomplete Blu Ray. 2112 is a masterpiece, I used to play hooky from Uni and sit in the student union lounge listening to that LP everyday... wouldn't have made it through without it. Great video and thanks, i will check out more of your videos now, I like honest no BS reviews. You really don't get something for nothing!
@@ipowerserge Vinyl version of Kings on a Rega P3 with Ortofon 2M Blue is just subliminally divine.. On Blu ray, well lets just say; That depends on the version. There are two well known versions, one mixed by Richard Chycki and the other by Steven Wilson. Both are very good, just slightly sonically different if you compare it to the original Terry Brown pressing. That could be just the technique or the equipment used then (1977) vs now ( 20xx) , I can't tell, but you would not be disappointed with either "if you were not making a direct comparison". The other thing to remember is that the Blu Ray(s) are/is mixed in 5.1 (ahem) so that may account for the sonic difference also. The 40th Anniversary edition has both the 2015 (Chycki) remastered 2011 version and Steven Wilsons 5.1 mix FWIW, I think the Steven Wilson version is the better Blu Ray. YMMV
Back in the day of these things (1980) I took a Thorens and "worked" on it. Added damping material to the inside of the outer platter. Changed to a Grace arm with an FR moving coil cartridge. Custom built head amp. The Thorens has a synchronous motor so the speed isn't tweakable nor driftable. The belt has a derailleur to switch between 33 and 45 RPM shives on the motor. The table sat on some painted and hidden cinderblocks as a base. Was all this normal or ultimate? No, but I think it gave good performance. I may be wrong. It was a fun effort though. Thanks so much for delivering an awesome straight shooting video that cut right through the bull. I felt/knew there was a fair amount of snake oil charming in HiFi gear hype back then. I/we appreciate that you put a heap of work into it.
My Denon DP-45F from the early-mid 80s has much better specs than any turntables I've found under 1500 dollars so I'm a little leary of buying new gear. I bought it for 180 bucks in 2006 and it still works like a champ. Edit: I did buy some new gear: the Pioneer PLX-1000 which I got used with a Shure cartridge for 300 bucks from Guitar Center. It's the Pioneer version of the Technics SL-1200 and weighs almost 30 pounds.
Right. I use a old Sony deck from 1978 (PS-X6) and even that has better specs than anything i could afford nowadays to get equal quality. Not to mention its solid build - molded SBMC chassis - and has better handling than modern turntables. And back in the day that was just a solid middle class turntable and way less pricey than,say,a Technics SL-1200. Anyway,the "uptick in quality" as mentioned in the video,is,in relation to old products,really not that noteworthy. But what is,is the fact that how little was done to better modern turntables since vinyl reached the mainstream again. Which is now over a decade ago.
Excellent video and content. I used to be a hi fi audiophile back in the 70s/80s. My gear included a Pioneer PL12D turntable with a Shure or Ortofon cartridge. Am now retired and considering getting back into my old hobby & love of hi fi so this video was a great help. Thank you.
Really good job. Enjoyed watching. I was listening to 45s as a young kid by 1972.. and then buying my own LPs by about 1975. Back then we’d go from house to house listening to each others LPs and passing around the cover and liner notes :) In the event of a party- we’d bring a stack of our favorites, maybe even write our initials on the label lol. I few years ago I decided to try LPs out again.. started out with a very old vintage late 70s TT,,, then upgraded to a Rega P6 and MC cartridge.. had someone told me in late 80s that at age 64 I’d buy a new TT for about 2 grand I would have laughed :)
I still love my Pioneer PL-15D. I have a good cartridge and it sounds good. It's also easy to repair and keep running properly. I've always been of the mindset that less is more when it comes to the mechanics of a turntable. All I'm doing is spinning records, listening to music at home, and nothing too fancy. Now if I were to replace it with a modern turntable I would go with the Fluance RT82. Your review of it was insightful and I like the retro wood grain aesthetic. So by your review it seems that the Fluance has both performance and looks. And there is no way I'm gonna afford the Techtonics SL-Q6 if I even manage to find one for sale.
My Garrard Zero SB, Model 82 with upgraded AP 76 platter and bearing, and 401 all sound fantastic. Garrards are just so musical when correctly set up in good plinths
This is a very fine video. The information here is honest, straightforward and understandable. All audio hobbyists/enthusiasts would do well to watch. It earned a subscription from me (but don't tell Michael Fremer). A couple of things to add, though. While the adjustability of the tonearm was mentioned, it can't be emphasized enough. Being able to adjust both height (verticle tracking angle) and azimuth IS REALLY important. Yes, you need a level table (emphasized in video) and good tracking geometry (also emphasized), but a good, adjustable tonearm is a minimum. If cartridge is 90% of sound (as asserted and probably true), it needs to be aligned properly to produce minimum distortion. The other thing is the analog/digital debate. The problems with early digital were real. If you are streaming Qobuz over Roon using RAAT into a high-quality DAC of recent (last 10 years) vintage, then absolutely, it will sound spectacular. And certainly, as the video argues, Blu-ray or another high density physical digital medium (e.g. SACD) played on modern equipment of certain quality (not a cheap Blu-ray player from Costco) will also outperform a lot of turntable/tonearm/cartridge combinations. HOWEVER, a well-recorded, new, CLEAN record (you need a record cleaner; you really do) on a properly set-up table with a good phono-preamp can and does produce the space, air, imaging and tonal accuracy that only the very best digital can produce, and usually for less cost. Yes, early digital coincided with the "loudness wars" that came from bad recording production. But MP3 and other compressed files can't compete with analog which is inherently uncompressed. Even CD and CD-quality files are flat, sterile and uncompelling on all but expensive CD players/DACs that have over-engineered power supplies and jitter reduction measures. 24-bit digital files, particularly at higher sample rates of 88.2, 96 or 192kHz, can sound great on budget players of recent vintage, but only because quality DAC engineering has finally reached mass-produced price points AND because hi-rez digital is now sufficiently loseless to reproduce space, air and imaging that 44.1/16 still can only produce (sometimes) on heroically-engineered (and expensive) DACs.
Got an incredible deal on an Akai Pro500BT turntable. The price fell from around $379 to $179 when they dropped the model down to their consumer brand "ION". Same exact unit, different name and still comes with the same AT cartridge. Really beautiful, minimalist design in polished walnut (pretty sure it's real wood since it weighs about 15lbs), aluminum tonearm and controls. Built-in pre-amp and bluetooth-capable. Just a gorgeous piece of equipment.
Renewed my needs for LP's recently. Picked up a Fluance RT81 from a local flea market, brand new in box for $150. I knew nothing about Fluance just I really liked the aesthetics of the unit so I drove out and picked it up. Best money I've spent on a turntable. Only upgrade I want is a Ortofon Red but need to get my vinyl collection up to par. First record I picked up was The Beatles Abby Road picture vinyl. Magical Mystery Tour is in my cross hairs as well. Also your video and your knowledge is greatly appreciated.
I fucking love your "I don't give a shit" attitude unless there's a measurable improvement and/or logical reason for things. You have earned my respect, sir.
yes , he hears records but not interested in music and he says blue-rays have high definition audio ,well he should contact all brands that built them because they do not know, well maybe i´m wrong high-definition might not mean high-fidelity or per say good quality sound, he says he likes to hear music with low quality or as all call it low-fi but then "high definition sound ,well where we stand bad sound or the best possible at least the old you know they have better sound and will last for more 40 years and new it does work bad since the first day and will never work 1 year or maybe he likes to hear music once in a 5 years period ,well the same ,this time stoped will be stuck when trying to put it to work again, and because he he´s a young man he thinks he knows better than people who have done it before he was born, but to end i have to say the Fluance is much better than any Pro-ject or Rega , if one wants to meet a average sound of a 70´s turntable with the Pro-Ject brand one as to spend 14.000€ , and Fluance already offers with 300€ more quality than a 1.000€ Pro-ject only notice that is using a OM from Ortofon , but i thought Fluance turntables had AT cartridges ,maybe it depends in which state you buy it or country, the new OM as a olderr brother that made people in early 80´s say that Dual was the best turntables at the time and the cartridge allthough some had dual on the side of the cartridge ,they were made by Ortofon, but the old looking OM cartridge from early 80´s as a similar sound to what today people call 2MBlack from the same brand and doesn´t sound that good but acptable and also new stylus cost 6 times more than in the past and have 1/5 of the listening hours and the new look like the stylus point fell off, it happened to me when buying a new cartridge for a old turntable i have since second half of the 70´s that i have a AT tonearm and a V15 shure needle but i had to buy a AT-art9 for it ,, sounds good but not as it sounded before which was perfect, the turntable is a pioneer PLC-590 from 20 series
@@RUfromthe40s Mate. If you're going to type an opinion, use punctuation and proof read your post before posting it. I just turned 63. I have been around sound all of my life and I'm still learning BUT there are constants that you have to follow. Sometimes bad engineering using cutting edge studio gear can be a disaster. I don't know everything. If you say you do, you're full of it. I remembered the name of a processor called the Sweet Vinyl Sugar Cube. This thing uses an algorithm that removes surface noise and you can listen to your record in real time, filtered or what it removes by simply selecting it on the front. It's strange listening to surface noise and a few pops and crackles without the music. It's not a gimick. One of the cheaper units is gonna set you back $1,500 AUD. If you were doing a blind A B test, you'd think you were listening to a digital format. The guy doing the review said look away now and after going backwards and forwards, the vinyl copy sounded better than the CD. It was great listening to 78s too. When you removed the scratches, Count Basie sounded "released" from the shackles of the time. On some 78s, you had to use the Sugar Cube. Shellac records are often cracked to the point where you cannot listen to them. The surface noise is that bad. Put this processor inline and it is chalk and cheese. I am very interested......no passionate about my music. Cheers everyone. Andrew from Australia.
@@scratchback2001 well i´m in my 70´s and i never said i know it all but think. if one worked in the music business not only as a consumer but playing, recording for at least 60 years at least, one gathers information ,i only explained the basics not were going to writte here a manual of the history of recording sound, pplaying instruments and home audio equipment as professional , so i´m full of it ,what would you expect ,i grew up in a family that had a lot of taste in music as all were hearing music since ever , at least since my great grandfather and my great grand mothers as all my uncles that were 12 and my cousins that were 27 ,this at least 5 years older than me as i also had the luck og being born in rich family´s in a time that even in the 80´s i saw lot´s of human misery and sometimes i would feel bad for others ,some of my friends that we met when we were 4 or others when we were 7 years old, some were really poor and grew up with them none of this friends had more than a radio cassette player or portable radio reel player in mono, so i think you didn´t understand me at all , and this youtube thing as been a terrible experience as we don´t know to whom i´m talking top, about pontuation, writte all i´ve written in Portuguese please as it is my first language ,sometimes i find myself talking about recording cassettes with men that weren´t even born when cassetyte decks and cassettes vanished from the market, so i´m leaving the coments as people today aren´t a litle aware of what reality is and have nothing like education, it's sad but it's true, stay there with the rockets, launch them and party alone, as the world evolves to me it seems more that the whole truth is transfigured, and evolution is nothing more than a throwback to the time when information was only available to a privileged few, and instead of there being a community, individualism is the rule and this happens all over the world in every young man, don´t forget ,translate all to portuguese without using a diccionary and don´t forget pontuation ,if you like to prove others wrong before comenting your opinion, as i said all are the best in their minds and it feels bad when i read that you are 63 as we grew up in the same world and only am 74, still working in agriculture still learning about mechanics as my main hobby either than all related to music is cars and till i was 50 ,womenwas my main consern ,never i looked for young girls as some do but if they don´t leave you alone one isn´t cold to the point of living alone and regecting 20 years old women, or just treat them as i do with my daughetrs grand daughters or close to me, family women, i only start to live steady when i made 50 years old ,stoped drinking ,taking drugs and living like a kid as i kept my 5th wife till today allthough we never married and wasn´t a young girl but a fine woman similar to me in habbits only 3 year younger as i met her in highschool when she was only 12 and very pretty and always around at the time older boys like my group of friends when i was 15, we aren´t married but she his the best part of me and i´m not thinkig of having a 6th wife , don´t forget translate all to portuguese and don´t forget pontuation ,as i would admit you´re wright if you do so
@@scratchback2001 I'm going to re-do his post in ChatGPT.
Here is a re-do of @RUfromthe40s post (as rendered by ChatGPT):
Yes, he listens to records but isn’t really interested in music. He says Blu-rays have high-definition audio-well, he should contact all the brands that built them because they don’t seem to know that! Maybe I’m wrong, though-high-definition might not mean high-fidelity or, per se, good-quality sound. He claims he enjoys listening to music in low quality, or what’s commonly called "lo-fi," but then mentions "high-definition sound." So, where do we stand-bad sound or the best possible?
At least the older equipment, you know, has better sound and will last another 40 years. New gear often works poorly from the first day and rarely lasts a year. Or maybe he listens to music only once every five years. In that case, the equipment will likely get stuck when trying to use it again after being unused for so long. And because he’s a young man, he thinks he knows better than those who have been doing this long before he was born.
To conclude, I have to say the Fluance is much better than any Pro-Ject or Rega. If someone wants to match the average sound of a 70s turntable with a Pro-Ject, they’ll need to spend €14,000, while Fluance already offers better quality than a €1,000 Pro-Ject for only €300. It’s worth noting that Fluance uses an OM cartridge from Ortofon, though I thought Fluance turntables came with AT cartridges. Maybe it depends on the state or country you buy it from.
The new OM cartridge has an older brother that made people in the early 80s claim that Dual turntables were the best at the time. Although some cartridges had "Dual" printed on them, they were actually made by Ortofon. The old OM cartridge from the early 80s has a sound similar to the 2M Black from the same brand today, but the sound isn’t that good, just acceptable. Also, new styluses cost six times more than they used to and last only one-fifth of the time. The new ones look like the stylus tip could fall off-it happened to me when I bought a new cartridge for an old turntable I’ve had since the late 70s.
I have an AT tonearm and a V15 Shure needle, but I had to buy an AT-ART9 for it. It sounds good, but not as perfect as it did before. The turntable is a Pioneer PLC-590 from the 20 series.
I got a Technics SL D3 for Christmas in 1979,still have it still use it,it still works perfectly and I love it
Some of us sold Hi-Fi and didn't lie to customers. Instead, we set up components in our listening rooms so that customers could bring their own music (or choose from ours) to listen and compare. We were careful to make every comparison as fair as possible. It was not uncommon to advise or suggest to a customer that, for example, before spending $2000 on a new pair of speakers they might consider moving their turntable off of the top of one of their big speakers and place it on a non-resonant shelf away from the speaker. Further, we might suggest replacing their Shure M75EJ2 with something both more refined and more dynamic. Stand with non-resonant shelf plus new cartridge (and maybe a headshell) might have a total cost of $300 to $500 dollars. What's more, we would stop by their house and set up the turntable stand and balance the tonearm with the new cartridge. They could try it for a week and either keep it or return it. Roughly 60% of the time the customer was totally satisfied. Other times they might say "Wow, that's much better. Now, I really want to add some better speakers, too!" We were not alone. I knew half a dozen other Hi-Fi stores that operated in a similar manner. Heck, we even had our own service department and a guy to come to your house to install, maintain or repair your gear.
I sure wish that type of salesman service existed today.
In Australia that demo experience was only offered to the rich.
Everyone else was told to get lost.
This selling technique led to a future disaster in music retail.
(It died)
Good riddance is what I say.
I'm SO glad retailers lost their customer abuse approach.
Now guys just don't go in stores.
Many thanks for your OBJECTIVE comparison of these turntables. I'm an old codger, born in 1955, right at the time when stereo LPs were first introduced, so I grew up with vinyl. During that era, no respectable audio review publication would evaluate equipment without TESTING it to verify that it was meeting specs. (I've lost all patience with today's self-appointed audio experts who seem to believe they have such "golden ears" that they can offer advice on the performance of audio components merely by listening to them.) It's good to know that companies like Fluance are building turntables today that are nearly equal to the great turntables of the past (and in this video you show the statistics to PROVE it). Excellent work!👍
Thanks for your effort. I have a 30yo Technics SL-1200 with Sure V15 cart on its 5th stylus. After learning what you did to raise platter to correct ralationship with tonearm, I found enormous increase in bass frequencies. I always thought the digital media (cd/dvd/br) far surpassed my 1970 - 1990 vinyl. Now, they are comparable. I am grateful to you for the information. My ears and soul thank you too.
I have a perfect vintage turntable. I bought it (Stanton STR8-100 Digital Direct Drive) new years ago, and it still looks and operates LIKE NEW. It also came with two headshells containing the Stanton D5200SK Cartridge, and one is still unused. The turntable had all the bells & whistles including a built in phono preamp, and usb output for MP3 copying. It still looks BRAND NEW. No scratches, or dents, and still makes vinyl sound as it should. Everything still functions as it should. It pays to take care of the things you own from your home to your turntable.
I have a 45 year old Yamaha YP-450 I paid $75 on eBay. Paid $120 for a custom crust cover and $100 for an ortofon stylus and cartridge. Sounds amazing. It weighs a ton and has no performance issues. I will eventually get a fluance RT85 or something similar but for now, I am happy with vintage.
My dad was a studio engineer in NY when I was growing up. I inevitably grew into the audiophile sphere, so my library is full of FLAC files. I decided to start looking at turntables last weekend and I'm having one delivered. Absolutely new to the vinyl world and, as a nontraditional computer engineering student, I can't express how much I appreciate the objectivity throughout this entire video. Just subbed and can't wait to start bingeing your videos to further my knowledge on things vintage. Thanks for your obviously hard work!
I'm trying to give my dad a vinyl player he really want one, what do you suggest I could give him
@@nygz1310 I suggest you give him a "turntable" or a "record player", not a vinyl player.
@@arnelarson2849 yes, vinyl used to be to make cloth for women , body shaped while we listen to records on our turntable ,today women are scary slim to dress vinyl clothes, and vinyl are records with dirt and paper bits when new ,normally they seem used records from the 70´s
U might really like shopping around at thrift shops for albums. I know I do. Look closely for scratches. If album is in apaper sleeve, it is likely 2b in good cond.
Well thank you for confirming that I do not need to change from my Technics SL 1300. I've had it for over 40 years, running it with an Ortofon cart and it still sounds sweet.
I have the exact same setup...Ortofon Blue!
I cannot believe it.Have the exact turntable and blue Ortofon cartridge
The SL is from the early 70s ,the Ortofon replaced my Shure Mk4 about 15 years ago.
😂😂
I’ve got one of those with an ortofon red
Or whatever else I feel like sticking on it.
Nice table but not as nice as the 1600.
First off, great video. 2 things I bought the Denon dp -300f in 2018. Black model and it was set up at 50Hz but here in the US, household current is 60hz. (I may have it backwards) anywho, after comparing the same album with the CD, I realized the tt was spinning to f'n fast. It's super pain in the butt to tweak but finally got it to about 34.1 on my hand held meter. I wish I knew you could buy a transformer!! If so I probably would've kept it. I gave it to my niece for Xmas and bought the Denon DP-400.
My humble opinion is dust covers are always in the way. (look at any high end tt.... No dust cover) The DP-400 cover duplicates as a record jacket stand,the base is included. I love it. Why drop a kick drum over a live Stylus!!
Your knowledge and honesty speak volumes. Much appreciated Sir 👍 Tam.
I enjoyed watching this video. It was very enlightening to learn how to separate the wheat from the chaff. As the original owner of a 40 year old MCS direct drive turntable, which was manufactured by Technics, I can attest to the fact that with proper, regular maintenance they are among some of the better vintage mid-level turntables out there.
I was fortunate to find a Technics SL1200 MK2 in black (rare for the MK2) and barely used on eBay! I paid a premium for this but the seller packed it properly as if it came from the factory and even included a brand new genuine Technics dust cover. I installed an Ortofon 2M Blue with an Ortofon head shell and the extra counter weight required. I could not be happier! This is a pricey setup with close to a gran invested in both table and cartridge but considering the build quality, the rare black color which perfectly matches my other components and the pristine condition of everything (not a single scratch!)... well... it was worth every cent to me! I’ve honestly never owned a turntable setup that gives me as much joy to use or that I’m more proud to show my friends! Built like a tank and 100% adjustable! There are no new decks which impress me as much as this for under a gran except for (maybe) a new Technics and you would still need to pony up for a cartridge!
Well done. I still have my black Technics SL1210 MK2. Still working great !
I have a 1200 mk 2 in black it is in great condition for it’s 40 years of operation. it has a ortofon mc 10 super moving coil cartridge fitted and it sounds absolutely sublime played trough my valve amp❤
2x 1210s and a 1200 with OriginLive/Rega mods. All 3 second hand and all working well :)
not well done.
@@ianyates7742
Not possible.
You're world 🌎 famous liars.
Deal with your terrible reputation.
Turntables require regular maintenance.
Fact.
4 decades is NOT regular.
You need to seek help immediately.
My 12 year old daughter, who is very into music, wants a turntable for Christmas. I still have my TT from college back in the middle 80's. JVC AL-F350. It was a very midrange model that I paid about $120 for at the time. It was fully automatic plus had a great feature called compu-link. Compu-link was something had for their components that allowed you to "link" it to the JVC receiver for remote operation. Remote control receivers had just taken off in the middle 80's, so when I attached this 1/8" jack cable from the TT to the receiver, it allowed me to remotely start & stop the TT- I was loving that. I loved that receiver it was a true 120 watt/channel top of the line JVC receiver with less distortion than today's receivers. I had a set of JBL L100 monitors from the middle 70's. I know my equipment wasn't elite by any means, but it sure rocked the house way better the the Harmon Kardon home theater I have now. Man- I miss those days. Sorry to diverge, great video though!
I was going to replace my Project RPM 4 just because it was old. Then just decided to give it a try with a different cartridge, the Audio Technica AT440MLa, and the difference was incredible. It completely got rid of that annoying distortion/lack of dynamics at the end of a side of album, made everything sound clearer. Won't replace it until it dies now.
Having been into vinyl since the glory years and believing I had fair knowledge about hifi gear, even I took much from this very well presented, informative video. Thank you.
In just the same way as an oil painting is much more engaging than a photograph (yet the photo is better in every measurable way), so a vinyl is more engaging than a Blu-Ray disc. When listening to music, the scientific performance of the medium is secondary to the entire experience.
One day, music will be transmitted directly into our brains. Such technology will be even closer to the perfect sound than a Blu-Ray. However, there'll *still* be people who will prefer vinyl, simply because it encompasses a variety of our senses, rather than focusing on just one. A fine dinner isn't just the taste of the food. The theatre of a fine restaurant is all part of the dining experience. - That's vinyl in a nutshell.
Studies of the relation between loudness and sound pressure level find a range of 30dB between individuals reporting the same loudness. In other words, the pressure level which elicits the same reported loudness when presented to a listening panel varies as much as one thousand-fold between panelists. Sound is not a physical phenomenon, but psychophysical. Absent audition there can be only acoustic radiation, just as absent vision there can be only electromagnetic radiation. Light and sound require eyes and ears. I'm not making this up. The idea of "the perfect sound" is every marketer's wet dream--true woo and money too.
Is it weird that I like the *smell* of vinyl? Because that's something you can't get from digital audio files.
@@ARCtheCartoonMaster Why weird? It's the same property which still helps keeping the physical books in the market. ;)
the soul is missing in the digital world
Interesting observation. At a local audio club meet a few yrs back, I asked the guest speaker 'what is the reference source you are comparing your product to'? He didn't understand the ?? I asked 'Do you attend the opera? symphony? simple jazz/string performances?' Otherwise, one is listening to THE P.A.
You are by far , the best reviewer out here , and I appreciate the work you do ! Thank you !
I’ve been rocking a Technics SL-1200 Mk2 for about 3 years now and I couldn’t love it more. Also, as far as I’ve read, all international models of the 1200 series have a voltage switch and can support ~230 V as well as ~120 V
Thanks so much, with my hearing loss I Got while in the Army I'm hopping that my Pioneer pl 530 is a good one.
Thank you for your service. Wish you all the best.
I own both the Fluance RT 81 and RT 85 tables and couldn’t be happier with them. They both look and perform terrifically!
I don’t own the RT81, but I love my RT85. I own several vintage turntables, including my venerable Sony PS-X600 with its Biotracer tonearm. I don’t like the A-T LP 120 at all. The cogging is horrendous.
I really like my Fluance RT85.
😎 I'm gonna go get one on Monday!!
I might go for one of these. They are quite impressive for the price
You won’t regret it, Robin.
@David Gena
Just wondering, what are the differences between the 81 & 85?
Thanks
An outstanding technical report! Professional broadcasters cannot make such a long presentation that is packed with facts with flawless speaking and sentences. And they have a team of writers directors and gaffers and tech asst's to do so much of what I think you did on your own. Thank you for your fine work.
I'll continue with "vintage" units. I like my semi/fully automatic units.
dwoodog me to
Same here. Picked up a Technics SL-1350 for $20 at a thrift store. Needs a new stylus, foot and dust cover. Otherwise in excellent condition.
@@charlesonyango5608 so lucky to get it for that!
But I have sl-b5 + sl-1950, both with all 4 spindles and Shure cartridges. To me stacking 33s is senseless but stacking 45s is no end entertaining.
:D
And i love a fully automatic turntable, if i run out the turntable is off when i come back.
Same here. I have a VPI HW-19 Mk. IV (I'll leave all the rest of the details out), and Pioneer PL's -514, 560, 570 (the old, good one), 630 and -L1000, and I've gone through them stem to stern. Set up correctly, the Pioneers will all hang with anything being shown here. The HW-19 Mk. IV's a different case, but it's what I used as a target for tweaking the lighter, lower mass Pioneers. You can't cheat physics, but you can make the best of what's already there in a given design.
Fluance makes great turntables. I bought a Fluance RT-81 about 3 years ago, and haven't looked back.
I've been looking at that table for a while. Would you mind telling me a thing or two about it? If not, no worries. Congrats on loving your great deck.
I bought the Fluance RT-85 about 8 months ago and I am stunned at the value every time I fire it up. The 85 is $200.00 more but you get an acrylic platter and an Ortofon 2M blue for that money. That cart alone retails for $250.00. The 85 is the best value for money in the entire fluance lineup (in myopinion anyway).
ua-cam.com/video/KO3uaeri8_g/v-deo.html
I know you can't really get too much out of a video like this as its been recorded on a tablet with whatever sh[[y microphone it has and then sent over the interwebs via UA-cam but here's some Lee Dorsey on the RT 85
I got into the vinyl revival last year. I already had a very good stereo setup and bought a refurbished DUAL 704 (direct drive, low mass tone arm, very, very good turntable).
.
I clean all my records with Disco Antistat using anti static cleaning fluid and put them in non-magnetic inner sleeves.
If I had the money and knowledge I have now back in the 80's / 90's I would never have bought a CD player.
.
Agree with your tip: changing the cartridge can make a HUGE difference, as much as swapping speakers on your stereo.
An average player with a good cart sounds better then a good player with an average cart.
Cliff Hall is 69 the model number? If you could provide the full model number that would be helpful.
Cliff Hall what replacement cartridge did you purchase that did not work?
Non-magnetic inner sleeves..?
This is a great perspective, I’m running an older Pioneer PL-200 with a Stanton cart and am absolutely thrilled with the sound. Always fun to window shop though.
Hello again! I just watched this from start to finish, and I have to say very well done from the verbiage that was used, to the specific sub-topics of the different turntables, it was a great delivery! I'm obviously partial to your SL-1200. ;) One thing I wanted to mention, if you're concerned about copyright algorithms blocking your video, just go into Edit Video > Visibility (Copyright Claim) > View Copyright Claim > Select Action > Dispute > choose Fair Use Act as your reason, then click Entertainment from the dropdown, and explain that you made the video yourself, and paste links from any other UA-cam video that is not blocked that uses that song, and explain that you are allowed to use it too, and you should get it lifted (if blocked at all).
Take it from a man who has uploaded more than 500 full length songs on his vinyl music channel. It works, and you have a right to use the music. Besides, with your level of traffic, UA-cam would not want to lose that ad revenue. You can do it with confidence. Once more, great video!
@Bill Ridge As low as 12hz been detectable under ideal lab conditions. Therefore claims to hear anything below 20hz are almost certainly fanciful. Equipment or recording deficiency could explain the error, otherwise just another false internet claim sadly.
you're my hero! A salesman confessing to what everybody knows, but most people don't seem to want to believe. It shows them they know less than they thought, it hurts their pride, and that can't be tolerated. Face the fact, people rip you off when it comes to money, simple as that. Great job, sir, thanks for your dedication and time.
Agree that most turntables are “the same”, but I also sold hi-fi late 1970’s, top end Yamaha and Nakamichi, and can state that the Linn Sondel LP12 is the exception. I recorded Alan Parson’s I, Robot on an LP12 and Reba Planar II, swapping the cartridge over. Rega sounded good, but the LP12 sounded as if someone had taken the speakers from behind the curtains AND dynamic range extended. I even told Ivor Tiefenbrun this to his face in 1979!
I still have my Sondek. It is a wonderful thing.
AP I, Robot !!! a fav discovery back then !! Now listened to in one sitting on my Otari MX5050 @ 15ips
I remember many years ago Ivor Tiefenbrun in the HiFi trade was referred to as " Ivor Teeth In Bum " behind closed doors . Still those same dealers were happy to sell his products . Those same dealers called those buying the LP 12 as " Linn Looneys " . 😉
started out as a kid with a Gerrard...graduated to a Dual...and then stepped up to a Technics SL1300...still loving it today!
Enjoyed this half hour very much. Thanks for a great presentation. I happen to have owned for several years the Denon (American Black version you mentioned). I've been quite happy with it. As you said, the cartridge it came with was fine, although I did do an upgrade when I found a really good deal on an Ortofon 2M Silver. Thanks again!
The most acurate honest and down to the point presentation.
Being a vinyl lover use to have a vintage turntable Pioneer PL500 and looking for new one I was between Rega & Project but I end up buying fluance RT84 for the looks to be honest, the S shape tonearm the the value for price. Although there is a project agent in Cyprus I bought fluance from Amazon as the company couldn't ship it here.
You won me over at 15:30 with A Farewell to Kings. Top album superbly produced.
I have a dp300f I bought in 2010. I’ve always had issues with speed fluctuations. You can adjust it but you have to use a small screw driver on the 2 small holes at the bottom of the deck. And that’s no guarantee the speed will stay stable. Eventually I put in the garage and got an LP 120. It’s what I could afford and it sounds good with my Ortofon Red cartridge. Thanks for posting this video.
To the audiofool an his money - "Just change the cartridge" Love it. Great review.
Exactly.......it’s amazing how great a Japanese made “mid-fi” deck can sound with a good cartridge that’s properly installed/aligned. I would love to have a TOTL turntable with a 50 pound maple plinth, an Uber nice handmade tone arm and an $800 cart but I can’t justify it.
ryanjofre exactly! I don’t see the point in buying a $1000 TT to play thru my $600 used speakers and my $400 vintage receiver. Would I be happier? I doubt it. Just seems like the only thing I would gain is bragging rights.
@@gustercc and spend the $$ on media/tequila
Appreciate your effort in producing this vid! Ordered the RT82; mostly because of your comments
Love the honesty about the snake oil found in advertisements... Welcome back, Modern Classic!
Wanted to come back here and say thanks for the help I bought a Fluance RT81 in 2020 after watching your video and have been really happy with it
I respect your video - good job. Many great points. However - turntables DO sound differently. Significantly different to those that listen carefully. The turntable enables the tonearm. The tonearm enables the cartridge. Put your money into the turntable 1st. Tonearm 2nd. Cartridge 3rd. Once again - great job.
I typically can't stomach most affordable (under 300 bucks) TTs but there are a few solid ones and it was great to see your sensible review. I own a Technics 1200 MKII with a Shure M97e cart, and also an AR-XA with a Stanton cart. Both completely different but great for what they are designed to do.
That was great. Nice criteria. I've bought a small number of direct drive vintage vinyl decks in the wild for cheap: Sonys and JVCs circa 1980. One of which I paired with a new mid-grade Ortofon cartridge. Thanks for covering this. Love the detail. :)
From a vintage lover ( being vintage myself lol) I agree 100% with everything that was said, that is why I own a Fluance RT-83 with the Ortofon 2m red and absolutely love it! . I still enjoy my 1978 Rega planar 2 and my Thorens TD 160 . I would still buy and restore vintage amplifiers over new ones any day, but i am getting tired of continuously fiddling with my old turn tables. I actually prefer the Fluance over the Rega PL1 and PL2 and most of the Pro-ject turntables close to the Fluance price range.. Best bang for the bucks Fluance hands down.
My Technucs SL 1900 fitted with Nagaoka MP110 sounds absolutely amazing in my set up. 👍
Tony Colbourne I want to get the Nagaoka MP-110h Cartridge for my turntable.
@@georgedoughly6344 it's well worth it. 👍
This is a good quality and detailed presentation on turntables from someone who has years of real world experience with this audio format.
Did you just review his review !?😂
I am happy I kept my old Sansui SR-212 just fitting a new cartridge.
Good choice. After checking and also having some new chinese/taiwanese made turntables, I have ended with Sansui FR-D3. I can only say that no new turntable comes even near to the performance of this one. And the whole unit is very service friendly. I will stay with it for the next two decades. The only thing which will change are cartridge and a headshell.
@@peterregorsek1504 - I have a Sansui FR-D25 with a new AT cartridge. Nice table and I can tweak the speed. Quartz locked would be nice.. maybe in my next turntable...
I have a sr626 with shure and a pioneer pl707 with Pickering xuv 4500q (rare)
Love it
I found a SR-212 for sale. What should I look out for before paying hard cash for this Turntable. What are some recommended upgrades I should do to it
Finally...someone with a honest approach of your comments. I have a old school Nakamichi receiver of yet to find a decent Turntable for my collection of LP's vinyls. Thanks for your help in explaining with clarity. Freedom to choose my products is the best!
Great vid and I agree totally about the snake oil. I have a Technics SL-J1 linear tracking turntable. Well serviced and fitted with a AT cart it sounds bloody amazing. Behaves like a CD player and is gentle with the records.
I have an SL-J300R and 2 SL-7s, very nice devices, and they can sound very well. They are however not without their disadvantages, for example, during lead-in/out, the linear tracking has to move faster, and is no longer entirely silent. This is something I already noticed in the 1980s on the at the time new SL-Q6, and no amount of maintenance will solve this. The SL-7 over the years maintains a very very low wow & flutter, the lighter J300R however is somewhat less good at that. The J1 is in many ways similar to the J300R, and suffers from the same issue. Good maintenance of the platter bearings will go a long way in reducing this issue, but in the end the platter is just a bit on the light side.
My stepdad gave me his 1200’s for my 8th grade graduation (1994) and I still have them. Both needed their target lights replaced, but that’s it. They both still work flawlessly, and were bought in the early 80s.
I have a couple friends who are audio engineers and they hammer this home. It's all about mastering. This is the largest reason (for) people claiming records sound better. OLD records especially. Mastering. The second lessor is, "feel." There's also the slower process and appreciation for the playing of records. Placing the record on the table. Dropping the needle. It's an experience. It's awesome. This analog way of playing music is a constant battle of the technology. The search for the perfect, cleanest sound. This drives the "audiophile." When really, if you can find a well mastered CD, SACD or digital file, you'll spend a lot less effort and money. I've stood and listened in front of $35,000 systems. This is how I knew what my friends were saying was right.
Years ago I picked up a Sony TA-1010 at a thrift store because I love the simple, clean, elegant way it looks. (Yes, the design of the components themselves is almost as important to me as the sound.) I wasn't quite sure what it was (no model number on the front panel). Now, thanks to you, I found it on HiFiEngine and at last have the specs (15 wpc, 20-60 kHz) and years of manufacture (1971-72). Thanks for the tip!
Vintage Turntables are the way to go!! I Love my Sony PS-X5 ❤️
I love my PS-X5 too
I love my Michell Focus One ❤
Picked up a Hitachi PS-48 about a month ago.... This thing is an absolute BEAST! This TT is so good I recently sold my Rega Planar 3. Added a Nagaoka MP-110 and this TT sounds amazing.... Better sounding better looking than my Rega. Vintage is definitely the way to go for me.... Bye Bye Rega 👍
Great video by the way!
Haha....right after I posted this video I saw my original post from 6 months previous was right below when I started looking at getting a Rega 3🤔🤔🤔
the only time I heard the difference in sound was when Technics went to a lower mass tone arm tube. there was a subtle difference in the mid-bass area. other than that, I agree with you. speaking of vintage, I still listen to my almost 50 year old Technics SL 1100a. :)
I found a dual 721 and did some work on it. Snubber circuit cap needed replaced which got rid of a pop sound when the tone arm returned. I replaced the cheap plastic base with a big base I made out of tiger wood. It looks and sounds beautiful. I use the audio technical 120 cartridge also. Thanks
Wow! All we ever did way back when was put the record on and crank up the volume!
sometimes we had to put a penny or two on the "needle"
I have a Pioneer PL-750 from 1981 , I don't know if it is a good turntable, but I really love what I hear from it through my amp and speakers.
Great video.👍
This is the first of your videos I've watched, and I'm very impressed by the way you incorporate audio nerd knowledge and commentary into a very clear and understandable discussion. Also, it's quite helpful that you made a clear distinction between useful minutia and BS minutia. Thanks very much!
We love vinyl. It's not convenient, it's not cheap, it's not accessible, but there's just something brilliant about owning, playing and listening to records. Whether it's the sound, imperfections and all, the physical form, the artwork and the liner notes, there's nothing else like it (no, not even you, compact disc). And that's probably why it's still going strong more than 100 years since its invention.
I would have loved to see you conduct these same tests with a Nagaoka cartridge.
I do love the way original vintage records sound on good equipment and that for me was a reason to have a good turntable. This is even true with 78's, many of which have not been reissued in digital of good quality.
Love the dynamic range on Chvrches - Love is Dead LP. The engineering was done well on that album.
You had me at "mastering". Nail hit on head in one. A great no nonsense reality assessment. I'd love for you to review the mighty Thorens TD-160 my workhorse for 44 years, still going stong, with a fefurb early last decade
New subscriber, great stuff sir
Thank you for this! This sums up all my reasons for still listening to vinyl while being a sound guy and service tech! :-)
If you’re looking to get up to speed on the REAL FACTS about turntables, THIS IS YOUR GUY! Great video! Keep up the great work! From a 45 turntable engineer.
Very interesting and informative. I can see a lot of effort and enthusiasm went into this.
As a millennial that grew up with CD's and mp3's, turntables don't trigger any nostalgia in me, but I always found their operation and culture fun to explore.
the stand alone turntables are a bit boring to me as well - BUT 70s and 80s hifi systems were just bonkers and had ALL the knobs and buttons- the design was wild and the average quality was way better then today.
Explore away my young Padawan.
I prefer the vinyl mixes of many songs older than the 90s. That being said, MP3 and CD are much better music accessibility.
I’m old and former radio DJ, automatic turntables only, Dual 1218 and Dual 701 (1970 and 1972) they will play virtually any cart. Good luck finding good ones.
I have one DUAL 1214 and two DUAL CS 741Q.
Gotta love that you flashed Farewell to Kings on Blu-ray
one of the greatest albums in rock in my opinion... been a Rush fan since the late 70s. (yeah, I'm a boomer LOL)
The problem with new turntables is that they aren't semi-auto or even have end turn off. I consider this quite essential for a relaxed listen, where you don't have to think about when the record ends.
Slowly more and more turntables are coming on the market with end turn off. A lot of them also don't have a hinged hood, which I also consider a deal braker. Ultimatly I picked up the Denon DP-300F because it's a very reliable full auto turntable, the only modern one I'm aware exists.
The controls are very clever. You can start stop it without opening the hood. I has also independent size and speed controls. Vintage auto tt's often have 45rpm tied to 7". Quite a smart design. I did not experience any speed issues yet.
Thank you for your great and hones comments on vinyl. Most "enthusiasts" are mad in the brain.
Don't hate on changers. My tracking force is 2 grams on my MCS 6700
A good and sensible video, thanks. I have been collecting analog type recordings since I was a kid. When I was 8 years old my parents bought an Edison Opera model cylinder record player with 120 records. I used to listen to it a LOT when I was young. It was in my bedroom. I still have it and all the cylinders, and it still plays fine despite being over a century old. I have even bought a few more cylinders for it. My parents record player was a Zenith with the cobra changer and played all 3 speeds. My mother and I began to buy 78s at the Salvation Army, all of which I still have, as well as my parents own 78 records, a total of over 200. My 45s number a couple of hundred also, and my 33s number over 300. I like many genres of music from classical to old time popular from the early 20th century, through older style jazz, swing, and rock. When I was in my 20s I bought and rebuilt a stand up Victrola, which I still have and which plays very well. I bought 4 boxes of needles for it, 500 needles to the box, so I won't ever run out. My own modern turntable is a Stanton STR8-80 which I bought years ago, back when vinyl was still king, and which still plays great. I have a second headshell for it which I have a 78 cartridge in for my older records. One of the beauties of the STR8-80 is that it plays all 3 speeds.
Instead of raising the platter, you could shim the cartridge in the headshell.
Good point; duly noted.
Did that to my (formerly very expensive) T4P cart. It also looks nice on this table 😅
...the cat is out...old-timers trick...
Great advice, and lovely to hear an audio person admitting that electronics shops lie! I only go into them for an argument and find it impossible to believe anything they say.
I was hoping I could fix up my old Garrard mono deck, which would be a bit of a project, but you make salient points about ageing and I'm a little more thinking I need to save up now.
Great video.
4.45 Haha, refreshing honesty. I remember having a heated debate with a bunch of audophiles a decade ago about HDMI cables and they were adamant £100 cables gave better images and sound. Sometimes they are so entrenched in their hobby they hear and see things that dont exist.
For my 4k monitor, it actually makes a difference in which cable I use. My old cable (bought in 2017) can't output 4k 60fps without stuttering, a newer, slightly more expensive one does that without issues.
But then again, I couldn't see a difference in the image or sound quality when the old cable worked.
it sort of, kind of can, but the thing with audiophiles is that they invest way too much money into shit that obviously has diminishing returns. spending 100 dollars on shielded cables made of dragon scales and phoenix down isn't going to make your system sound 100 dollars better, and most people would rather just put that money towards new records or something.
Generally in the analogue domain when it comes to video cables, more expensive usually means better shielding and better quality picture. But HDMI is a digital signal lol... I mean don't use a cheaply made cable for sure and if you want a feature packed, up to date high spec hdmi cable I'll pay a couple tens for one that's braided, but the level of snake oil in the audiophile community is ridiculous.
Also I'm a dj, cue burn and a little bit of crackle is a healthy part of our diet.
My turntable is a Bang and Olufsen which I purchased in late '77 or early ' 78. I wish B&O still made turntables as I would very much like to replace mine with a new or newer version. Clean, straight forward design and operates nicely if imperfectly. The needle has never scratched an album, I don't know if other turntables are as safe for albums, but this one is great. Being over 40 years old there are some deficiencies - it is an automatic turntable and when the tone arm retracts when the album is over it doesn't raise up so the needle is dragged across the album. The work around is to use the pause function and physically move the tone arm back to the original position. One thing I have noticed is that once recorded on the reel to reel, albums sound even better! Not sure why that is the case but there is a noticeable improvement. I enjoyed your analysis and I will be watching your channel. Thank you!
Go for the vintage, always a bargain if your willing to wait for the right one. Vintage is generally better built and easily repaired.
I'm honestly thinking about going Vintage. I'm on a budget ATM, and it serves suitable until I get a better one down the line.
Thanks so much for the video. I sold high end hifi in the late eighties, and early nineties. We carried Martin-Logan, and Krell as well as Denon, a/d/s, Adcom. I read TAS, and set up sound rooms, and listened for hours well into the night, long after the store closed with customers searching for their nirvana. I still have my Denon DP-59L that none of my tweek customers, who were often blind followers of TAS, would dare consider. I have a Grace f9 Ruby to feel the groove. I enjoy that setup just as much now, as I did back when they were new. You are so right. Digital recordings sound better (when properly mastered). But, vinyl feels better.
Rega are a great TT company that have produced long lasting excellent products for years.
Fontsman
Yes, for Mid fi, I would definitely visit Rega, great products made in the UK
Great video. I have Dual 1216, Dual 1228, Dual 505-3, Sharp Optonica RP-7100. They all sound great with different twist. Vinyl forever!😊
Great advice, and well explained I would love to see somebody with experience and good sense similar to yours compare my totally manual 1960s and 1970s Thorens TD124, TD166, and Garrard 401 with some "new" manual tables.
add to the list the AR totally manual TTs !!
Glad to see a review on the fluance, i was looking at that turntable for a while. I have a Pioneer PL-530 from 1975 that's still rocking and sounds great. I put an ortofon om2 red on it and it really sounds good now. But eventually the now 48 year old turntable will need to be replaced. Thanks for the info
Thanks for the no B.S. review!!! I love the sound of my CDs, but I love the look and feel of my vinyl. You perfectly explained why I still spin.
a good turntable with a proper amplifier and speakers(this not spending a fortune) ,you would have dificultie to hear a cd after listening to a record ,for the fact that the record has superior quality of sound compared to a cd version of it,some records that you listen for lot´s of years when listening to the cd version of it sound very bad ,as an example the sound of guitars just disappear and a low sound with no dynamic substitute the real sound of the guitar with the efects used,this for the fact that amplifiers and pedals are anlogic and the conversion to digital erases most of the real sound recorded ,in a pratical example the sound of guitar in the song "in bloom" from nirvana ,doesn´t sound good as the vynil or record version, i always listen to hard-rock and some LP´s from the 60´s ,70´s and 90´s when listening to the cd version they sound really bad ,i reffer the song from nirvana,because they had a version on a sub-pop compilation with the musicians from that nirvana era that i always said to sound much better than the one released in the nvermind cd ,but a few years ago this version was released on a special edition of nevermind cd ,but on the cd both sound bad, iwent to a 2nd hand record shop of vynil and bought for 3 €´s the vynil version of nevermind that i never liked that much but when listening to the record i notice that all the songs had good sound even start to listen to nirvana, another example is the cult lp´s that sound incredible better in vynil compared to the cd´s wich sound bad,normally i search for bands with guitars ,bass and drums,but it´s not the only kind of music that i listen to ,i just remenbered the U2 lp "boy"that i was used to listen to it´s record version when listening to the cd i was amazed how incredible bad it sounds and i´m not a fan of this band ,this are only examples,regards
The thing MOST people do not realize when they toss their vinyl in preference to CD's is that CD's cannot reproduce a thing called "harmonics". That is why CD''s sound so "sterile". Harmonics are found in that area of the sound between the 1's and 0's of a digital recording. Without that area being reproduced the sound quality is just not there. CD's are now getting the same treatment from streaming audio that they gave to vinyl records. Many stores no longer sell CD's or the blanks to record your own anymore. The medium to produce them has also degraded to the point that many CD''s simply won't even play after a while or skip so badly they get tossed in the trash. Thankfully, I saved most of my older vinyl, much of which never made it onto the CD format. I use a lesser known Pioneer PL-112D fully manual belt driven turntable with several different cartridges. It may not pass the audiophile standards of some but for me and what I enjoy from my vinyl the Pioneer does what it was built to do just fine. In the end, it is what YOU enjoy that really counts.
@@richardcline1337 i do keep all my records and only started to buy cd´s after 1993 ,they just cease to sell records,but i still have records that the cd version is incredible bad ,i bought them thinking it would be an upgrade ,several i bought in 93 never heard them ,and i do own a turntable that came with a system from pioneer bought in japan in 1973 but the turntable it´s a bit more modern than the early system´s i saw in canada ,the cartridge was a pc-30 and the stylus pn-30 with a very good sound ,later i bought a technics sl-3310 with their top cartridge but i took the cartridge from the pioneer and it sounds better than the technics one, normally live lp´s are much better sounding then the cd´s version of it and also rock lp´s loose the sound of guitars ,the system was the es2000 from pioneer either than clean it ,never done nothing and bought a pair of celestion ditton series and it sounded even better,in the 90´s i bought a new complete system from pioneer but still the older keeps working and the new is almost dead ,just remenber i also change the belts on the turntables, but it´s like when i hear a record ,if change to cd the sound is bad no dynamics just flat sound and i bought a high-end player from pioneer,but also bought new speakers from mission and it increasis the sound quality, the loudness on the 90´s amplifier almost doesn´t do nothing but that´s not the problem ,most of the time i don´t use it on, also have a 1970 akai reel to reel that still sounds very good today, my oldest was a dual system then the es2000 from pioneer that already had the effect of surround and 4 channel matrix, regards
Richard Cline strange, yesterday I listened to the beach boys cd. And boy, those harmonics were awesome.
Wait wait wait, there are no harmonics on the beach boys? What about simon and garfunkel. Or the eagles? Do they also don’t have harmonics?
Bastards!
DJDanceClassic, I didn't say "Harmonies", I said "Harmonics".....a totally different subject altogether.
This video just cleared up the cobweb of information sitting in my brain. In the market for my first turntable, and this was super helpful!
Well I initially thought, blah blah blah, here we go again, until you started to talk about electronic company BS and sales people up selling you to the most expensive equipment, then you had my interest. Then you held up the Farewell to Kings Blu Ray, you good sir, now have my respect. I have the whole Rush catalog on vinyl, tape (cassette and 1/4"), CD and incomplete Blu Ray. 2112 is a masterpiece, I used to play hooky from Uni and sit in the student union lounge listening to that LP everyday... wouldn't have made it through without it.
Great video and thanks, i will check out more of your videos now, I like honest no BS reviews. You really don't get something for nothing!
i have Kings on vinyl, sounds great with my RT 81 and 2m Orofon red. im curious to know how it sounds on Bluray audio
@@ipowerserge Vinyl version of Kings on a Rega P3 with Ortofon 2M Blue is just subliminally divine..
On Blu ray, well lets just say; That depends on the version. There are two well known versions, one mixed by Richard Chycki and the other by Steven Wilson. Both are very good, just slightly sonically different if you compare it to the original Terry Brown pressing. That could be just the technique or the equipment used then (1977) vs now ( 20xx) , I can't tell, but you would not be disappointed with either "if you were not making a direct comparison".
The other thing to remember is that the Blu Ray(s) are/is mixed in 5.1 (ahem) so that may account for the sonic difference also.
The 40th Anniversary edition has both the 2015 (Chycki) remastered 2011 version and Steven Wilsons 5.1 mix
FWIW, I think the Steven Wilson version is the better Blu Ray. YMMV
Back in the day of these things (1980) I took a Thorens and "worked" on it. Added damping material to the inside of the outer platter. Changed to a Grace arm with an FR moving coil cartridge. Custom built head amp. The Thorens has a synchronous motor so the speed isn't tweakable nor driftable. The belt has a derailleur to switch between 33 and 45 RPM shives on the motor. The table sat on some painted and hidden cinderblocks as a base. Was all this normal or ultimate? No, but I think it gave good performance. I may be wrong. It was a fun effort though.
Thanks so much for delivering an awesome straight shooting video that cut right through the bull. I felt/knew there was a fair amount of snake oil charming in HiFi gear hype back then. I/we appreciate that you put a heap of work into it.
Saw the Ride album, and I had to watch.
same
Fluance RT-85 - its fantastic turntable on this money!! Im used 2 mouth - super clear sound!
My Denon DP-45F from the early-mid 80s has much better specs than any turntables I've found under 1500 dollars so I'm a little leary of buying new gear. I bought it for 180 bucks in 2006 and it still works like a champ. Edit: I did buy some new gear: the Pioneer PLX-1000 which I got used with a Shure cartridge for 300 bucks from Guitar Center. It's the Pioneer version of the Technics SL-1200 and weighs almost 30 pounds.
Right. I use a old Sony deck from 1978 (PS-X6) and even that has better specs than anything i could afford nowadays to get equal quality. Not to mention its solid build - molded SBMC chassis - and has better handling than modern turntables. And back in the day that was just a solid middle class turntable and way less pricey than,say,a Technics SL-1200.
Anyway,the "uptick in quality" as mentioned in the video,is,in relation to old products,really not that noteworthy. But what is,is the fact that how little was done to better modern turntables since vinyl reached the mainstream again. Which is now over a decade ago.
Excellent video and content. I used to be a hi fi audiophile back in the 70s/80s. My gear included a Pioneer PL12D turntable with a Shure or Ortofon cartridge. Am now retired and considering getting back into my old hobby & love of hi fi so this video was a great help. Thank you.
Woooh I wasn’t expecting a Chvrches record! I do love me some Chvrches when feeling down lol 👍🏼
I love my Technics SL-D2 (bought in 1971 from Soundpost Hi-Fi ) and died in June 2020 and bought a replacement this week --Hope I get years of use
You're certainly right about the new Denon, the dust cover looks like a sideways on toilet seat cover 🤔 🤣
Really good job. Enjoyed watching.
I was listening to 45s as a young kid by 1972.. and then buying my own LPs by about 1975. Back then we’d go from house to house listening to each others LPs and passing around the cover and liner notes :)
In the event of a party- we’d bring a stack of our favorites, maybe even write our initials on the label lol.
I few years ago I decided to try LPs out again.. started out with a very old vintage late 70s TT,,, then upgraded to a Rega P6 and MC cartridge.. had someone told me in late 80s that at age 64 I’d buy a new TT for about 2 grand I would have laughed :)
Thanks! Been having a hard time finding a good one since I gave my '78 Microseiki away.
Yeah. I had a MS DX1500. I gave it away because the Rega Planar 3 sounded much better. The M Seki looked pretty cool though.
I still love my Pioneer PL-15D. I have a good cartridge and it sounds good. It's also easy to repair and keep running properly. I've always been of the mindset that less is more when it comes to the mechanics of a turntable. All I'm doing is spinning records, listening to music at home, and nothing too fancy. Now if I were to replace it with a modern turntable I would go with the Fluance RT82. Your review of it was insightful and I like the retro wood grain aesthetic. So by your review it seems that the Fluance has both performance and looks. And there is no way I'm gonna afford the Techtonics SL-Q6 if I even manage to find one for sale.
Thanks for the video!
My Garrard Lab 80 is fantastic, even with its original cartridge.
My Garrard 401's are also still playing fantastic. Only with another cartridge
My Garrard Zero SB, Model 82 with upgraded AP 76 platter and bearing, and 401 all sound fantastic. Garrards are just so musical when correctly set up in good plinths
This is a very fine video. The information here is honest, straightforward and understandable. All audio hobbyists/enthusiasts would do well to watch. It earned a subscription from me (but don't tell Michael Fremer). A couple of things to add, though. While the adjustability of the tonearm was mentioned, it can't be emphasized enough. Being able to adjust both height (verticle tracking angle) and azimuth IS REALLY important. Yes, you need a level table (emphasized in video) and good tracking geometry (also emphasized), but a good, adjustable tonearm is a minimum. If cartridge is 90% of sound (as asserted and probably true), it needs to be aligned properly to produce minimum distortion. The other thing is the analog/digital debate. The problems with early digital were real. If you are streaming Qobuz over Roon using RAAT into a high-quality DAC of recent (last 10 years) vintage, then absolutely, it will sound spectacular. And certainly, as the video argues, Blu-ray or another high density physical digital medium (e.g. SACD) played on modern equipment of certain quality (not a cheap Blu-ray player from Costco) will also outperform a lot of turntable/tonearm/cartridge combinations. HOWEVER, a well-recorded, new, CLEAN record (you need a record cleaner; you really do) on a properly set-up table with a good phono-preamp can and does produce the space, air, imaging and tonal accuracy that only the very best digital can produce, and usually for less cost. Yes, early digital coincided with the "loudness wars" that came from bad recording production. But MP3 and other compressed files can't compete with analog which is inherently uncompressed. Even CD and CD-quality files are flat, sterile and uncompelling on all but expensive CD players/DACs that have over-engineered power supplies and jitter reduction measures. 24-bit digital files, particularly at higher sample rates of 88.2, 96 or 192kHz, can sound great on budget players of recent vintage, but only because quality DAC engineering has finally reached mass-produced price points AND because hi-rez digital is now sufficiently loseless to reproduce space, air and imaging that 44.1/16 still can only produce (sometimes) on heroically-engineered (and expensive) DACs.
Really good presentation. Great work and I appreciate the effort to get the accuracy of measurement.
Got an incredible deal on an Akai Pro500BT turntable. The price fell from around $379 to $179 when they dropped the model down to their consumer brand "ION". Same exact unit, different name and still comes with the same AT cartridge. Really beautiful, minimalist design in polished walnut (pretty sure it's real wood since it weighs about 15lbs), aluminum tonearm and controls. Built-in pre-amp and bluetooth-capable. Just a gorgeous piece of equipment.
Excellent video. Would love to see you do tests on a Sony Biotracer and say a Beogram 4000. Two of my favorites when they have been restored!
Renewed my needs for LP's recently. Picked up a Fluance RT81 from a local flea market, brand new in box for $150. I knew nothing about Fluance just I really liked the aesthetics of the unit so I drove out and picked it up. Best money I've spent on a turntable. Only upgrade I want is a Ortofon Red but need to get my vinyl collection up to par. First record I picked up was The Beatles Abby Road picture vinyl. Magical Mystery Tour is in my cross hairs as well. Also your video and your knowledge is greatly appreciated.