Responding To Comments (This Is Not An Apology, And I Still Support Black Lives Matter)
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- Опубліковано 24 вер 2024
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"When you debate a person about something that affects them more than if affects you, remember that it will take a much greater emotional toll on them than on you. For you it may feel like an academic exercise. For them, it feels like revealing their pain only to have you dismiss their experience and sometimes their humanity. The fact that you might remain more calm under these circumstances is a consequence of your privilege, not increased objectivity on your part. Stay humble." -clinical psychologist Dr. Alexandra Solomon
Ughh yes! This is probably the biggest reason why everyone is critisising her. No tact at all. The quick topic change to animal crossing really proved how little this issue matter to her emotionally.
@@annaericsson6160 I agree. Her attitude of superiority and dismissal were so unearned and misplaced. Though, I know she values "experts" (in cases other than this I guess) so I thought sharing this might give her something else to think about. What she did was worse than doing nothing.
thank you for your comment, what a stimulating quote!
we tend to focus on how emotions distort our understanding of different topics and tend to percieve someone less emotionally expressive during a debate as more credible/legitimate. when someone who experiences racism talks about their life, which is so intimately affected by racsim and carries the marks of pain caused by sytemic violence, how are they supposed to detach themself so easily from omnipresent pain? in this context, the expression of pain through emotional expression should make the person speaking about violence caused by racism much more credible; at the very moment someone intimately affected expresses emotions caused by racism, they exemplify the hurt caused by systemic violence, which makes them more credible in showing the real life consequences of racism.
what about privilege, something that is much less visible and much more subtle than emotional expressions in the abovementioned context? is the distorting effect of privilige on how people understand the world not much more dangerous, as it is often less detectable? is it not much more dangerous to base legitimacy on 'objectivity', which is often defined as a lack of emotion, when this very state of being emotionally detached stems from privilege?
@@neray44 Great analysis and very well said.
This quote is everything!
21:55 "Science is science, it doesn't care what color your skin is". I just want to point out that science is not neutral and academic/research institutions are themselves entrenched in the same unconscious biases & uneven power structures we see in wider society. Please look into the many studies that investigate racial bias in peer review, power dynamics in participatory or community-based research arrangements, discrimination in tenure & promotion, as well as the microaggressions that BIPOC scholars endure which lead to their early exit from academia (and therefore a much whiter lens in research studies). As a university librarian (i.e. information specialist) I always encourage the college students I teach to seek out a wide variety of sources/expertise and not just academic ones. I encourage my students to ask themselves, 'whose voice is missing from this scholarly conversation?'. To me, the better approach would be to synthesize evidence-based research from academics or solutions from public policy professionals AND put them in conversation with anecdotal or the lived expertise of activists. Activist input on solutions is necessary and we cannot solely rely on a one-way dissemination of 'scientific' recommendations divorced from on-the-ground efforts & realities. And my point here is more nuanced than simply "science must fall because it's colonialism" as you put it in 22:18 (sorry, librarian here...I compulsively cite 🤓). I am not suggesting we should ignore the science and only rely on activists for solutions, but I am bothered by your call for BLM leadership to merely voice their concerns and then stand aside and wait for the field 'experts' or 'professionals' to put solutions on the table when we know institutional expertise comes with its own baggage.
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100% agree. Thank you for this comment.
Yes. All this. Science is not some magical solution to bias.
Well said. Like, why not both? Also, maybe the "experts" don't NEED to be black, following from Swayze's arguments, but it sure does fuckin HELP to have someone with lived experiences leading the movement and interpreting the data. Data and statistics can be skewed any which way you want depending on the person collecting it and their angle.
"Anecdotal expertise" sounds good. But... what if I'm a middle-class Hispanic fellow and my anecdotal expertise says that violence against people of color isn't a problem -- as I've never seen it myself, after all...?
Well, that's just me, right? Doesn't mean much by itself. So maybe we should get some other people to add their "anecdotal expertise" just in case my anecdote isn't anecdata. That would result in a more representative view of the actual situation.
My two or three friends should do it... unless they're very similar to me in location, SES, etc. and haven't had representative experiences either. So to be really sure, we should get a LOT of other people to add their anecdata, and try to ensure that they're not all similar types of people.
NOW "anecdotal expertise" is really useful. But it can be hard to tell if everyone's saying the same thing, or if a certain percentage of us saying one thing is significant or just chance, so we should do some "anecdata collection" and statistics to better extract the meaning behind our collective experience.
Lots of lived experiences, from a diverse set of people in an attempt to be representative of reality, operationalized and analyzed to ensure we're not just experiencing pareidolia: the best kind of anecdotal expertise, surely.
22:15 "Science is science..." but... that's the issue. Science when looking at minorities is skewed. Some doctors TODAY think that black people cannot feel pain like other people can. From skewed, incorrect, science. Look at the statics of medical fatalities and minority comparisons. Black women are 5x more likely do die in childbirth. Yes, science is important to look at here but it's important to understand that sometimes the science is just wrong.
This is a case where the stats demonstrate how flawed "experts" can be. Obviously we cannot leave it up to obstetricians alone to solve the problem of black women dying more often in labor, where the "expert" fails because either the expert or the system is set up to fail black women.
not to mention the lack of trust the black community have with doctors due to test done on them such as the Tuskegee syphilis experiment
I generally admire Swayze's science led approach to veganism but it's important to be willing to think critically about any given scientific consensus too. Scientific consensus can be weaponised to oppress people and reinforce power structures. We've seen this happen many times with racial and ethnic groups, sexual minorities, and other victimised groups. It's not some neutral force for good.
Science and statistics are so ridiculously easy to manipulate, so easy that it often happens on accident as well as on purpose. That's why so much of it needs to be reviewed multiple times by multiple people. However, if a racist statistic is made and reviewed by people born and raised in a racist system, then they often can't or don't want to check their own gross bias.
It's like she doesnt know we had scientific racism and sexism for years. Remeber when they thought skull shape determined your intellegence and value? Or when women were diagnosed with hysteria and basically sexually abused with dildos as a cure? Plus she didn't look into the science, she missed so many studies that explain a lot of the things she misinterpreted. In sociology there's so much literature on institutional racism.
This is her worse video to date
The issues that BLM are fighting against are not Black issues; they are American issues. Americans that do not think they are their issues because they do not affect them are problematic. Acknowledge that.
Gina Schlitz then why state “Black lives matter”? Why not have labeled the movement as that? If BLM had actually been named ALL LIVES MATTER, the movement would not have been as controversial....
Because Black people were made marginalized for centuries and made most vulnerable, so they experience oppression built into our society at the most explicit and heightened levels.
Kaitlyn Maddalena because ALL lives can’t matter until black lives matter too. Yes, there are human injustices across the globe that need to be addressed, but how can you even have that conversation when there are major issues in our own backyard..
I am european so here is my outsiders perspective. I am a big fan of selectorat theory of politics. So why do black lifes not matter? One reason is that america is running just 2 parties. From the point of view of the polition black votes are garanteed to either vote for them or not. Its an easy demographic, if they have no choice but to vote for you. Why should you spend any money/time/legislation on people that you dont need to sway anyway? That's why blacks have been living in america paying taxes without representation to an extend.
Omg she actually invoked reverse racism ahh why did I ever watch this channel?? This is Freelee level self-awareness and morality. Does anyone know of any non-awful vegan channels on YT? Mexie seems to be the only one...
You do know that prisons in the US are LARGELY FOR-PROFIT, don’t you?
8.2% of US prisoners were housed in private prisons as of 2017. That's a lot but it's not "largely" the case for the US.
@@michaelfavata2720 yes, but people in state prisons are also forced to work (making furniture/clothes, as firefighters, picking crops) while the state is paid or profit off of that labor.
@@Propa_jo I wasn't aware of that. Thank you for letting me know. That does seem to be absolutely bizarre and perverse.
@Rational Media lol. According to the U.S. Department of Justice, " More than 4 in 5 adult correctional facilities [state and federal] offered
inmate work programs and about half of all prisoners had work assignments in 2005. I'm sure it has gone up exponentially since then.
Rational Media prisoners make around $1-$3 per hour doing this work and prisons make profit from allowing the prisoners to work. You can do more research. Fact is that it’s corrupt!
Im not well educated enough to speak on either of these issues to their full extent, but what I find interesting is this concept of a “voice for the voices-less” in veganism. Makes sense, an animal cannot communicate explicitly, with words, that they are suffering. But multiple Black people are coming together and telling us they are suffering, and some of the same people ignore it, either deeming its not as important, or the kind of “facts dont care about feelings.” People arent animals, they can communicate and if they are telling you they are suffering, and a way we can make it better, should we listen?
Amazing comment. Us black people are not important to UV as animals are. We have been crying 😭 out for so long but what the fuck does she care and she is making a stand
I agree whole heartedly with the message you’ve said-I want to add that the thing is humans ARE a species of animal so that makes it extra fucked up to me when a vegan doesn’t care about social issues that effect humanity.
Is the message you're hearing from Swayze that we shouldn't listen to black people's suffering? Is she saying there's too much compassion for black issues? If that's what you're walking away with, you're simply not listening.
People are animals but i agree with the rest of what you said.
@@eleanor4759 As if marxists are a bad thing.
when we say "listen to black people," we don't mean "listen to black people and parrot what they say without any actual thought or intention behind that action." that's just performative activism. what we mean is, "listen to black people because we're the most knowledgable and have the most experience on the issue of our own oppression. instead of speaking over us, listen to our stories, perspectives and lived experiences and then DO THE WORK of being actively anti-racist by self-reflecting, doing research, and speaking out about injustice."
This seems so obvious to me. How does she not get this. Blows my mind
@@bregieirofernandes No defence of UV itended but some people, either because of having blinders/privilege or not being in activist spaces a lot (obvioisly UV is an activist but the vegan world is sort of removed from general Left activist circles, generalising here, not saying they never overlap) you could be surprised to see the most privileged people walking into a space and being the loudest, drowning out other voices, and not allowing space for others. It's something that in-person activist circles have had to proactively work to help correct, and that is echoed online. But if you haven't seen it with your own eyes, you might think "doest this point really need to be made" (though that assumption would be based on privelege of course because it would shock very few marginalised people to hear that even well intentioned people can silence and domiante others)
Marcie I’m getting the vibe she doesn’t have any meaningful relationships with black ppl and so she thinks she can turn this into an issue of philosophy to pick apart when ppl are dying in the streets bc she’s so far removed from it (and I’m not saying ppl need to have black connections to support BLM, you can and SHOULD also self-educate by reading black-authored books, watching movies or literally even following black activists on instagram). Like no one’s saying you have to become a BLM channel but amplifying some black voices and saying “Black lives matter” is not hard to do, especially when she says she acknowledges the horrific murder of George Floyd. Or at least don’t make TWO longwinded videos trying to prove that the BLM movement is WrOnG and you are RiGhT - it’s okay not to know a lot right now but maybe acknowledge that and try to learn more!! Reminds me of some of privileged, irritating philosophy majors I met in university. These videos are ignorant and self-righteous and I hope her views change/she apologizes in the future, but I’m not supporting this channel any longer unless that happens.
Come on, that would take humility and I don’t know about anyone else but Swayze has never appeared to be the most humble person on UA-cam, she appears to be very condescending and cold. I’m surprised people are so shocked that that has finally shown through. It’s been rather apparent to me. Swayze hasn’t come off as the type of person I’d want to know in my personal life and now it’s starting to click a bit more.
I have see many people who have said that white people should just say what your told to say, don’t think about it just do it.
It is very arrogant to assume that the slew of people who argue what you said in your last video didn't understand what you said. It is far more likely that either you didn't convey your message accurately or they are correct in their statements.
Hazel Dunne She’s about as defensive as a 12-year-old... majorly disappointing
That really creams my corn as well; when people tell you that you must have misunderstood when you don't agree with their points. So childish.
All of my classmates agree so you must be wrong. You know that there are literally billions of religious people. Does that mean there is a god?
but if she didn't convey her message accurately... doesn't that mean that people didn't understand her?
@@erin9412 are you done gaslighting?
Let me ask you this. Is silence about animal cruelty contributing to it continuing? Yes. And you know that. Otherwise you wouldn't be a vegan activist. So you know damn well white silence about racism contributes to it continuing.
^^^ this. This video and the one prior were so astoundingly off putting in tone deafness and ignorance, the fact that she doesn’t get why it was so negatively received and doubles down and says this video is not an apology says a lot. I had to unsubscribe.
Rational Media bold of you to assume I can’t simply because my comment wasn’t intended to be a counter argument. I chose to say what I wanted to say🤷♀️
Rational Media and point of fact my feelings/emotions weren’t hurt. I’m not “running away” What a stupid interpretation of my words. Really says more about you than it does me bud.
Rational Media I’m mad you won’t join my mob so I’m going to bully you with emotional buzzwords.... so what vegans do to other people on a regular basis?
@@helena_5456 First of all, racism is not just an American issue but something that has a deep history in the entire western part of the world. I'm European and racism is still evident in my country and others in Europe so that's not even an argument. Secondly, no, it doesn't make you a bad person for being a vegan activist and focus your energy on animal rights. Advocating for animal rights is important and its good that you're doing that. Nobody's reacting to Swayze not dedicating her channel to BLM. What we're reacting to is that rather than just stating that she supports BLM but wishes to separate her vegan channel and human civil rights (which is interesting that she all of a sudden wishes, considering that she's been making videos about family vloggers, sharenting and antiwaxers which have nothing to do with veganism) she is making very inconsiderate and uneducated statements about racism. Her response to Lindsay Ellis' video on Dumbo and race was also very iffy and proves that she is very uneducated on the subject, and out of all the youtubers on this platform I would have expected her to lay off topics she clearly doesn't know enough about before making 40 minute long videos claiming things and making statements.
I am stunned that you would characterize the comments on your last video as full of “toxic personal attacks.” I get that hearing criticism sucks, but the comments were hardly personal attacks.
Literally, I scrolled through allllll those comments and it was the most unified, reasonable comment section I’ve ever seen.
There were so many comments of people who were just confused by the waffling behavior. People tried to explain why certain points were wrong, this is sad.
It's possible you don't see all the comments.
"I'm so so glad to have found out she is a horrible and awful woman." They're not hard to find.
yeaaa right!!!
You can't just say "I'm taking a few days to learn/grow" and then not learn or grow.... this is basically the new "thoughts and prayers" come on...
What if you're, like, wrong? come on...
gg ggwp 🤣🤣 you love to play dumb. Keep on going buddy your accomplishing na da.
@Emily And systemic structural institutions of racism are the new Devil
Ok, so learning and growing means thinking like you, huh? So, someone is ignorant when they opposes your views. Very interesting.
"Anger clouds our ability to accept criticism" she says as she obstinately refuses to accept criticism.
difference is: she is not angry
What if your criticism is wrong and you interpret anything contrary to your criticism as "not accepting criticism".
Do you agree with my criticism of your understanding of how criticism works or are you going to "refuse criticism" by disagreeing with me?
Careful, you wouldn't want to be a hypocrite.
@@ggggwp4199 people are dying....
@@phantasmic1000 Yes, we must stop police brutality and implicit racism.
No she is not. She actually is considering the criticism but disagrees.
Dude that animal crossing speech at the end was EXTREMELY out of touch
Big yoinks
I couldn't finish it 😬
As a long time viewer (who is black) this video, and the one that this is based on just hurt my heart, to the point where I am considering not supporting you any longer, and I feel the need to argue against one of your points.
You state that black people shouldn't necessarily lead this movement just because they are black and that implying so is racist. Does that mean that a women's rights movement lead by women is sexist? Because there should be men in high ranking roles giving their input too? If you give a quick glance over the Wikipedia page on woman's suffrage in the UK you will quickly see that the movement was mainly lead by women and why should that be a problem? I have no problem with white people or anyone else supporting and rising to prominent roles within the organization, but a movement about the struggles of black people being lead by black people is racist? Just like I have no problem with indigenous groups having indigenous people leading their struggles in topics such as loss inland and the scary aspect that indigenous women in Canada and the US are going missing. Is it racists for them to lead that movement as well?
Excellent point, wish more people were commenting on this element.
Swayze: I'm all for single issue causes
Also Swayze: except those predominantly run by and that elevate the voices of members of oppressed groups, that's not inclusive enough
Agreed. Honestly, this is the point that irks me the most.
I thought she meant that telling a white person that they can't be the leader of the movement is racist, not that having a black person as the leader is racist. I may be wrong though.
100% agree, I hope she can reflect and learn. I would love to keep supporting her but it is really difficult at this point.
I want to say something about science. You say that race doesn't matter when it comes to empirical facts. But we do know for a fact that science has been used to try to legitimize racism and put it on a scientific basis. Empirical data always has to be interpreted, and especially when it comes to social science, that interpretation is influenced by who you are. This is coming from someone who studies social sciences at university, I'm not skeptical about science, quite the opposite. But I do think that it's important for experts to be diverse and to represent the people they are studying. I know that you're saying "not all leaders should have to be black" and I agree with that point. But I disagree with saying "it doesn't matter which race the leaders have". Black perspectives matter, because science isn't as neutral as scientists like to believe.
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You seem to be unaware of peer review.
@@yaash4123 When your peers share your biases, what good are reviews?
Race science of the late 1800s was peer reviewed. Doesn’t make it correct or any less damaging. Science as a discipline is shaped by cultural and social assumptions. I’ve studied history of medicine and science for about 2 years.
@@yaash4123 Of course, but even then mistakes can be made and biases can slip through, which is why we need to make sure peer reviews are always top notch and that the people doing the peer reviewing are from diverse backgrounds. It's not enough to not be racist, we need to be actively anti-racist.
I agree with many of the criticisms in the comments. Here is another:
You missed one crucial question, which has been posed in both videos. WHY did you make this video? WHO are you helping? Even your actual point is a bad one. I believe the thesis is "People shouldn't get bullied for not speaking out." Fine. Yes. No one should get bullied. But you spent your energy defending bystanders rather than saying "Here is what I am doing to support Black Americans." That *hurts*.
Influencers (or whoever you say is getting bullied) do not need their feelings protected more than black people need their lives protected. The fact that you spent your time and energy on this feels hurtful, because it shows what you think is important.
Yes, thank you!
She’s just complaining about such a non-issue.
Like, she wasn’t even referring to influencers in general, just vegan activists.
Which is already a pretty niche group to begin with.
YES. White feelings should never be put above Black lives.
Eliana B and when has she said that....
She doesn’t need you knowing what she is doing personally, she doesn’t want to be praised for being such a good person, literally she has never done that, she is talking about an issue and saying her point of view, that’s what this channel is all about
I really like Cheap lazy vegan video! She really did a better job educating herself
Okay, this comment is going to be very long, but if you have a minute, here's what I think you missed about your last video. I get that you meant to advocate for single issue activism in your last video, but as someone who agrees that single issue activism can be good and someone who went into your last video completely open to what you had to say, I can tell you that you didn't manage to say that well. Frankly, you hardly said it at all. Instead of speaking about useful knowledge, effectiveness of activism, and mental exhaustion, you just used whataboutism. And then you presented criticisms of guidelines put out by one (1) vegan organization about BLM, during which you made it very clear that you aren't versed this activism. Which, okay, that's fine, you can stick to single issue activism and not understand these things, except you managed to misrepresent several of those points, both their effects and their purposes, to your audience. I'm sure some people were angry because you didn't say defund the police, but not everyone was. Please understand that the criticisms of your video largely didn't spring from the fact that you created a reasonable, clear video that happened to be against the current popular online activist consensus. They sprang from the fact that you put out a video so poorly done that you sounded like you just heard about half the issues you raised in it for the first time five minutes before and were processing them on camera with no additional information, all the while failing to make your professed point. To be clear, I don't think you're racist. I do think you are entitled to a well researched opinion on black issues. I don't think you have to fall in line with any one person, regardless of their skin color. But the people who commented largely weren't being racist either. They were voicing a very real frustration that you used your platform to awkwardly prattle on about something you barely understood, which had the effect of making some of it look bad.
You don't have to become an expert in a new area, you don't have to leave your vegan activism behind, you don't even have to apologise. But please, please have knowledge as 101 as what a black space is at the ready if you're going to make a video like this again.
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Thank you for stating this. I tried to explain this in a comment on her first video but I think I came off as too emotional. I agree that we shouldn't force people to speak on an issue but her picking apart things that she didn't even bother to find the definition of was baffling. I am used to her being so thoughtful with her rebuttals but that was insensitive and hurtful.
wonderfully said. I hope she sees this
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absolutely this
If anyone wants to see a video with actual facts and research, Cheap Lazy Vegan made a great one and linked dozens of sources for people to do their own research.
Yes it’s a great video but UV didn’t say anything contradicting it in this video. If you think she did then you totally missed her point!
I loved cheap lazy vegan’s take on it, and her recipes, I’m so happy there’s a rational and compassionate vegan in the movement
@@cyssoK well, no one is saying she did? But that doesn't mean that her videos on this topic haven't been shite.
Yes it was so thoroughly researched unlike Freelee’s which was tone deaf and incongruously insensitive. She had really gone off the deep end with her conspiracy paranoia.
Maybe you could’ve included some actual arguments in your comment instead of pretending to devalue an entire, pretty well structured video by pointing people to a video by some other random YT’er.
24:18 “i’m gonna keep not being racist and not seeing color”... to fight a system that sees race, you have to see it too and acknowledge it. If a Black person and a white person are saying the same thing about the issues at hand rn, amplify the black one?? Literally we’re just asking you to let Black people speak about their struggle and amplify their voices.
If you don't see color you can't see racism. I never thought she was one of those people.
@@mannypedib if you don't see colour and you only look on the inside of people, you are a hope for this world. Not seeing colour is what we all should do to end racism.
@@agatajabonska8560 I don't want people to not see colour. Being black is important to me and its not something I want people to ignore, I just don't want to be discriminated because of it. Not to mention that claiming not to see colour is just ignoring ones implicit biases that need to be addressed and dismantled.
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@@agatajabonska8560 saying that implies there's something wrong with not having the "right skin colour" and therefore we have to look past it in order to see the beauty on the inside. It's actually kind of racist, though I know you didn't mean it to be. Anthropologically speaking, race isn't real, but it's so important to acknowledge and talk about nonetheless, otherwise we can make no progress.
Also, ethnic studies are a thing. We literally study everything you claimed was just "lived experience."
Clearly she doesn't understand and value the social sciences and their legitimacy.
foureyeswonder which is sad because didn’t she study something like political science in university
who is "we"?
Yeah I got a whole ass degree in Black and Africana Studies which is the study of the post colonial African Diaspora. There are peer reviewed articles by loads of interdisciplinary professionals, she clearly didn’t actually take the time to look into those resources. I don’t want to assume the worst, but maybe it’s because she isn’t interested in the facts of this, because they hurt her feelings because they unearth her worldview. Honestly it’s the problem I have had talking to a lot of my white liberal friends.
@@anjad.3656 philosophy is nothing like social science
Most of us live a system where our political world is severely detached from the society it's running. In the UK, white, pompous, privately educated pomps make decisions on welfare, food stamps, public transport, education and social reform, when the whole lot of them grew up in a world with a silver spoon in their mouths and have never known true financial or social struggle in their lives. Our politicians can't relate to us, and for that, we suffer. Posh toffs don't know what it;'s like to go on the doll or live on the streets, but a lot of socialists and liberals can relate - sadly, they don't have the power to implement policies which change the system for them. You have probably had similar frustrations with your own government...
The same goes for a system which is lead by white people in the name of black people. How can you not see that? It's not classist to say the government needs more repsentation in it when it comes to class, race and gender, and it's not racist to take a step back and say "you know what, we need black-lead research papers and black people at the forefront of this' (I'm amazed you of all people consider reverse racism a thing to be quite honest. It's not). Saying black people are more efficient at being in charge of reforms which directly affect black lives isn't saying no white people should be involved, but white people really shouldn't be in charge because they can't relate to the black experience and don't know the intricacies of what affect white systems have on black people and POC.
Black people are dying and suffering because white people are in charge of the social systems which impact their lives. To say that the current system is effective and can be sorted out with potentially better white people is ignorant. They've lived under a white-ruled system for hundreds of years and look where it's got them - even the most well-intentions white person isn't capable of creating overhauling ineffective systems on behalf of black people (urgh, even writing that sentence made me cringe - the white saviour vibes that came from such a sentiment grossed me out). Listening to black people doesn't mean white academics and white politicians and policymakers sit in a room with black people, hear what they have to say and then go away and do the work - it means overhauling the system which excludes black people from those spaces in the first place and giving them to space to finally make the changes they need using their expertise and knowledge.
Also, the animal crossing outro - yikes. That was so "now I've hardheadedly and defensively slashed back at people over my uninformed opinions about BLM, let me get back to my white agenda of Animal crossing gameplay because that's what the viewers REALLY want to know about in this video.' I'm disappointed, I must say.
I agree with your statement but I wouldn’t even say that leftists have necessarily experienced poverty and injustice (surely, people who have are more likely to be left-leaning) but we just actually care about other people, not just ourselves. That’s how I see it anyways.
if people don't allow these conversations to become casual and normalised isn't there a risk they will stop happening when BLM is no longer trending?
Race doesn't necessarily make you a better advocate for speaking up against racism (it probably does usually but not always) because people of the same race will have different lived experience. This is how people like Priti Patel can prevent immigrants coming to the UK, who are essentially the same as her parents, because she has never experienced wanting to move to a country with better opportunities and a better quality of life because her lived experience does not include that. It's also why you can find black republicans speaking out against the BLM movement because their lived experience is different to a majority of black people. Now I wouldn't want those people on a panel about racism and equality because they would probably say everything is fine and move on. A person's race alone does not make them able to solve the issue of systemic racism. I agree a panel of white people probably wouldn't do much good either but to say that white people can't be leaders is a but much. We know Jeremy Corbyn was anti-apartheid and had he been elected PM he probably would've have done a lot more to push forward on systemic racism, would he have done it by his own white self probably not but he would have been a white leader in charge who would've probably made positive changes towards racism in the UK. Denis Goldberg another white man who was imprisoned alongside Nelson Mandela in the Rivonia Trail and was a prominent activist against apartheid. To say that white people can't also lead the change of systemic racism is a problem I think. Obviously black people need to be listened to, obviously there are black activists who have been campaigning against systemic racism for a long time and they shouldn't be ignored but neither should the white people who stand alongside them who have also campaigned for the same changes for just as long.
I agree and yes that outro was cringy.
"tonality matters" and then that big speech at the end about animal crossing? big yikes.
Laura Stable she does AC all the time at the end of the video is it really out of place?
Right! Then again, she doesn't seem to understand that "silence is violence" is not about proclaiming your support for the BLM movement. Rather that if you never speak on racism and unjust things happening to the black community then you are complicit in all of it - not just the parts you benefit from directly.
Lucas Garcia it seems like the wrong video for it
@@lucasgarcia8285 if she has time to play animal crossing every day then she has time to educate herself about BLM, racism & police violence, but she chooses not to. the 10 minute animal crossing update feels like a slap in the face in light of her recent videos
Cat C it’s her choice to do what she wants 🤷🏻♂️ she’s obviously against police brutality and racism so idk what more you want. She can’t care about everything on earth, though it is weird to me she didn’t research more, her BLM videos aren’t as well researched as the rest of hers but she still makes good points.
20:46 "The idea that anybody benefits from police violence or urban poverty or marginalized youth being poisoned with lead or food deserts or any of that or any number of other issues disproportionately affecting the black community is just incredibly ignorant." While virtually everyone would benefit overall if we dismantled all systems of oppression, privileged groups do receive tangible benefits from them. For example, white people benefit from being preferred over other minorities, especially black people, when it comes to pretty much everything including employment, education, health care, etc. Not to mention that there are obviously people who benefit from some of the things you pointed out, such as private prisons that benefit from aggressive police that are more likely to start fights and arrest people and send them to jail than to deescalate conflicts? What about the politicians who go out of their way to marginalize and disenfranchise black people because they know it will suppress turnout?
I didn't even catch that line. I already knew she didn't do any research for this video, but wow.
And UV's telling us to trust the research. We do! We know about the private prison system. We know how poisonous drinking water ends up in faucets. We know how lead paint stays on the walls. We know about our broken school system. Money! For private prisons, police making overtime in arrests, politicians who get donations, contractors who donate to politicians to get contracts worth many times more than their donation, landlords, and people who own property in good school districts and want to keep their property valuable. What research are you reading that missed this? People followed the bread crumbs and found the money making rackets. There's nothing "incrediblly ignorant" about asserting these facts!
Thank you for this comment! Her statement at 20:46 really struck me too for this exact same reason. I wish she would do the work and research about this topic.
Dylan Roof wasn't shot dead for killing 9 black people at a church a year ago. And the cops even took him to Burger King!
I didn’t watch the whole video do I didn’t hear this statement which is ridiculous on its face. If you can drive black peoples to live in polluted areas, then white people can live in the less polluted areas! They also don’t have to worry about paying to clean them up or forcing businesses to pollute less, because people don’t pay attention to black communities being poisoned. This is extremely easy to see given Flint MI still doesn’t have clean water so many years later, and who is paying attention to this issue? Black people are, but not enough white people to actually fix it, which is disgusting in the extreme.
When she said that my jaw dropped. So painfully ignorant.
Your first video on BLM made me cringe, but I figured you'd get plenty of replies from people who are smarter and more educated on these issues than I am, so I kept my mouth shut. When I saw you'd made a follow-up, I honestly hoped, despite the title, that you had listened to some of those people and improved your ability to speak to these issues. I guess not.
First of all, you may have been receiving requests to discuss Black Lives Matter, I don't know, but I sincerely doubt that anyone asked you to make a 30-minute long video explaining all the complexities of the issue. You could have simply made a community tab post like many other UA-camrs have, expressing support and linking to black creators doing similar work or other work you appreciate. If you're not ready to speak to the issue for 30 minutes without putting your foot in your mouth multiple times, then it would be better to be a supporting voice and let others lead the conversation.
Second, you said "I think having safe spaces dedicated to puppies and kittens... is a good and necessary thing for everyone's mental health." I agree with that, but your channel ain't it. THEN you go on to say that black people having a forum to discuss racial issues without white people cutting in to invalidate them is "way worse" than having dedicated locations for black people... which is a really troubling statement on multiple levels. "Safe space where I can enjoy pictures of puppies and kittens and not think about terrible things happening in the world, yay. Safe space for other people who are not like me to discuss issues that pertain to them without constantly having to defend their own perspectives... not OK." Really? Do you believe that, say, women should have forums where we can discuss sexual assault and harassment without men constantly chiming in to say, "Well *I* wouldn't do that," or "But what were you wearing?" If you're OK with spaces like that, you should be OK with similar spaces for black people to discuss their experiences. I am not hearing ANYONE say that white people are not entitled to opinions on matters of racial justice. I don't see that in the comments you showed in this video. This is a straw man argument, and I'm disappointed to hear you making it. What people are saying is that not every moment or every context is appropriate for us to express those opinions. We've done a HELL of a lot of talking over the last... forever, we could stand to shut up and do some listening.
Third, you argue that there should be no issue with a white person leading a movement for black advancement because they could be sincere. That's not the argument. The issue is one of understanding and commitment. You amply demonstrate in the last couple of videos that you don't understand terribly well what it is like to be black in America. I don't either, which is why I probably would not choose to make two 30-minute long videos explaining to other people how they are doing their activism wrong. And black liberation is just not personal for white people the same way it is for black people. That level of commitment matters. I've watched liberal, progressive white people do a great job hiring POC, only for them to be the first ones laid off in hard times. The commitment just doesn't go as deep, and we need to admit our human failings and stand aside.
I'm not going to try to explain intersectionality to you because I'm FAR from an expert in such things, but... I'm pretty sure you are misunderstanding it.
Getting tired, but point 5: YOU BENEFIT FROM RACIAL INJUSTICE. So do I. You may not support it, you may not want it, but you benefit from it. Recognizing this, and recognizing the effect it has had in our lives and on our thinking, is fundamental to understanding our own position in the world, and from there what we can DO about injustice.
Sixth, I can't believe I'm having to say this, yes it IS a problem if black voices are regularly drowned out by white ones. My goodness. Was it fine for men to shut women up because for hundreds of years, men were the more educated and knowledgeable and women were kept ignorant? Of course not, our perspectives were valid, and listening to them led to progress for everyone, and better lives for women which is a good in and of itself. Why the hell are black people and other marginalized groups not due the same respect and recognition? And to say that people with PhDs have every right to speak over less educated people smacks of elitism. I've watched your videos criticizing elitist vegans, you should know better.
Seventh, despite other comments you have evidently read trying to direct you to the right place to learn what "defund the police" means, you clearly have not followed their guidance. At the same time, you assert that many of the commenters have not watched your video. Pot, meet kettle.
I do not understand why you spent so much of your time on this if you want to be a single-issue activist. You started your last video criticizing another person for doing exactly what you did, and asking why they couldn't post a simple, "Black lives matter" and be done with it. I would ask the same question of you.
Honestly, I'm profoundly disappointed. You were helping me transition out of eating animals with your non-judgemental approach to omnivores. Sounds like I need to find an alternative source of information and inspiration.
Using words like "extremist" and "conspiratory world view" bothered me, too. Like a lot of people reject vegan claims of how poorly animals are treated in factory farms because they sound like conspiracy theories and the vegans sound like extremists. I'm not saying "you're either with us or against us", but rejecting everything as a big conspiracy theory just so you don't have to do any actual research smacks of personal feelings outweighing fact to me.
I almost think Swayze DELIBERATELY misunderstood some of those comments because occasionally it sounded like she was threatening to pull support for BLM because of the "extremist" views of some. I don't really know what that means, but it's pretty shitty to do that rather than checking out the claims that are actually being made.
Very well put
I think it’s a lesson in condescension we call all use this as a opportunity to further develop discussions.
Cheap Lazy Vegan and Sweet Potato Soul are good.
Rational Media weak
you could have used this large platform you have to uplift Black vegan activists/youtubers, share resources for protesters, showcase Black business, or literally anything else. sure, activists may have one thing they focus the most on, but why would American activists NOT want to speak out on the MOST PRESSING and widespread issue getting the most attention in the US right now??
follow Sweet Potato Soul, The Brown Vegan, Rachel Ama
Well, let's just cancel her then. That's what we do with people who don't conform or act in the way we want them to.
Totally! Some creators I follow just took a few days off and promoted a bunch of Black creators and helped donate and petitions. You don't have to make a speech to use your platform; you can just direct your audience.
@@marsramon thank u!
Angela Lee
No ones “canceling” her. People publicly disagreeing with her or un-subbing doesn’t remove her platform.
That’s how free speech works. You can say what you want, but people are allowed to respond to you.
You just threatened to stop supporting BLM b/c you disagree with people's tone. If you only care about Black lives when Black people state their message in a way that is comforting to you, you are not supporting Black lives. What if someone told you that your life only matters IF you say things in a way they agree with?
what's so mind blowing is how many times do you think she's been dismissed and called an "angry vegan" in her life? you think she would get how it feels to be ignored and belittled because she didn't say her piece nice enough. it's shocking how ignorant she is and how uncaring towards Black people she's revealing herself to be.
"BLM" is not the same as the sentiment black lives matter. Of course black live matter, it's kind of insulting to imply anyone thought they didn't in the first place. BLM is a marxist political hate group, that doesn't care about black people at all. If all these old white politicians who have been in office for decades care so much for black people, why did they not do anything? Now they all suddenly love BLM?!? Red flag, red flag on the field my friends.
Yup
Actually, that's literally the exact opposite of what she said.
@@beckbabej it's obvious that she ment black lives matter
It really comes off like you think that there has to be direct intent for racism to exist but that's really not the case. There's a lot of ways to perpetuate racism in well meaning ways but it's still racism.
This is something that needs more attention. It’s very common.
Why does this feel more like a 'clapback' than her taking the criticism to heart and growing from it?
I guess we had too much hope
Because that’s exactly what it is :/ the white fragility really jumped out
@@genericswiftie. we live in and we learn, it's just a shame that someone with a platform like hers lets it get the best of her
Because it is just a clapback.
"Not an apology."
Lol okay clown.
It's like she doubled down rather than doing the research and the readings that everyone recommended. It's so disheartening. I don't think she's ever even read a single book on systemic racism.
The cancer comparison would be more apt if it was the hospital system that was literally giving people cancer.
Did, did she seriously go an Animal Crossing update to end the video?? The lack of reading the room, and flippant attitude....unsubbed.
wow I didn't watch that far. Jesus
After a whole episode of ridiculous vitriolic comments by wildly unhinged people bent on misunderstanding and misconstruing each and every utterance she makes, I can honestly say I found the light ending about her world on Animal Crossing an absolute delight.
@@EbrithilEdward Of course you did.
@@EbrithilEdward wait wait, what do you mean!!!?? You're supposed to be ANGRY!! AND FURIOUS! How dare you be content!!
@@brunettezprettyr4296 Cold rationality is a myth. Being removed from empathy is not a good thing. It tells us where she stands and we have that right. Your reaction tells us much too:)
It doesn’t really sound like you looked into what “defund the police” means
If "defund the police" doesn't mean defund the police, maybe clowns like you should find another phrase?
slider292 seems like you haven’t done any research either. It’s doesn’t just mean defund the police and that’s it. It implies redirecting funding to other resources like strengthening communities, investing in crisis intervention and education. It’s about PREVENTING crime rather than just punishing it
slider292 He did not come up with the phrase.
"I don't think defund the police means what you think it means" did pop into my head while watching this video 😪
slider292 I don’t see an issue with the phrase. Defunding the police is a part of the idea, just not complete defunding. Just means you put less into the police budget and reallocate that money into the community or to professional first responders for certain situations. Pretty cool idea to me.
Unsubscribing from you, despite what others are saying, actually isn’t hard. It is not hard for me to unsubscribe from someone who is so insensitive to the issue at hand. You brought so much positivity into my life, thanks for that. Glad you showed your true colors.
‘True colors’, haha, wow. Reducing someone’s pretty well voiced opinion to ‘you’re a bad person’.
Sounds like you may have had an emotional reaction and got swept up in the 2020 manufactured media hysteria.
I’m so frustrated but there are so many great comments here which is the only saving grace of this sad attempt at the upper hand. Honestly so aghast at your disregard for the lived experience of black people and the very real expertise of black activists, scholars, and organizers. You're honestly blowing my mind by claiming that black people can't have space to discuss black issues by themselves without white people injecting themselves. One of the most glaring missed marks here is your claim that science is color blind - I mean the examples are right in front of your face and you would rather call black people "crazy conspiracy theorists". Addiction isn't even a good comparison, you watched other people experience it, black people live their own interactions with anti-black racism, sexism, transphobia, etc. Angela Davis has been advocating for abolishing the police and prison industrial complex for decades, maybe do some reading before you tell black people that what they need is actually MORE officers on the ground with more money. De-escalation training doesn’t work. Policing in this country isn’t broken, it’s doing exactly what it was meant to, adapted from slave patrols and weaponized against people of color and poor people to fund a prison industrial complex. If you don’t want to try to understand that, the least you could do is not talk down to black people like some kind of white savior ugh. This is perhaps the most disappointing take I've seen on this. wow.
100% Agreed. This. Her comparison to addiction was inappropriate. As black people, we live these interactions everyday. It's not like a substance that we voluntarily began to abuse that went out of control. I also found her comparison as a weak way to fish for sympathy.
I agree.
Juneteenth wasn’t taught in school, is Juneteenth a conspiracy theory? our own history was never taught to us, some of us have been taught lies thanks to the involvement of other people that never experience it.
This!!!! Thank you 💗💗
I came back to see if she had responded to her previous video. Clearly she doesn't get it, so disappointing.
What’s really telling is the fact that you have ads in this video and that you chose to end it by rambling about animal crossing.
Edit:
Something else that I dont think has been touched on is your statement about your understanding of what intersectionality means. 18:05 "not harming other social movements with your own and still being able to respect single issue actvism". Intersectionality does not support or advocate for single issue activism, but actually brings attention to the fact that some injustices are not single issue matters. Professor Kimberle Crenshaw (the woman who coined the term) has a great tedtalk on youtube if anyone is interested.
Agreed
Mind you I haven’t made it to the end of the video yet but how is that different than any other video where she randomly rambles at the end and is monetized?
@@faylinameir Most creators decided to not monetize of of BLM or donate the earnings, profiting of the BLM movement for personal gain is not the best look and ending the video with an Animal Crossing ramble makes it seem like she doesn't see the topic as that serious and diverts from the attention this topic people think deserves and rather draws away from her wrongdoing by switching the topic. I know she has done this a couple times but it did feel different this time, I have to admit.
@@faylinameir I'm totally fine with rambling and dont make a habit of criticizing creators but somewhere in the middle of the video she says that she recorded her audio rather than filmed it to stay on script but ended up rambling anyway so ending the video w an animal crossing ramble of all things makes it all just seem sort of disingenuous.
She still has to pay the bills
I just want to pop in and say, defunding the police is not just ‘defunding the police’. It’s about having other professionals answer to calls that do not require force or weapons instead of dispatching the police that can turn deadly. Its about giving more money and help and effort into unfortunate communities that may resort to gang violence and having to steal to survive. It’s about giving more money to education and the actual training in police and making more task forces that are solely trained in deescalation and social matters than the police forces we have now. We spend more on outfits for the police in riot gear and weapons than we do on the education system, and perhaps even the schooling that police get themselves. Defunding the police is about putting more effort into social and educational systems and reducing the ‘force’ of the police.
"Defund police" then saying giving more to police training? Im sorry, when you say defund police i thought you meant defund police. If that is YOUR message (because i know alot of people supporting the movement legit want police gone) then rephrase your message you are brodcasting to make it more clear and not get it mixed with people that actually want to defund the police.
Where did you get we spend more on outfits for police and riot gear then the education system? Are you talking about the US? Or another country? Source? Legit source please.
shoop shoop In the US, our teachers have to buy many of their own materials to provide for their students education. Teachers must spend at least four years to get the same salary that policemen get for going to training a MAX of 6 months. When you give more money to people who train for 6 months than for a teacher that studied for 4 years there’s a problem. Teachers spend money out of their own pockets to go above and beyond for students, but the police-force is issued riot gear, cars, and guns. In my opinion, this system is flawed if you just look at the salaries and comparing jobs. Teachers have the unique responsibility to educate children. If the educators are getting paid less then the enforcers, the loop will always be closed and unsolvable. Why would you want to get paid the same for 4 years of school if you could go to school for 6 months max? We need more educators than enforcers so that the US can get out of high incarceration rates and back on track to catch up with other ‘first world’ countries.
@@charliechambliss5920 you talked about us spending more on outfits and weapons for police than the education system. Their salary included in that may cost more than the education system, but that was not what you originally said.
I do realize this is 2 years old. That said…
I have been a 911 dispatcher for 2 decades and there are lot of initiatives that I support that fall under “defunding the police”.
An excess has been heaped on emergency services for decades. Cut out a bulk of mental health funding? Put the fall out on emergency services. Cut the funding to help homeless people? Put the excess on emergency services.
I could do this all day with numerous topics.
I support more resources for various interventions but I do not think every intervention is well thought out.
Many agencies outside of law enforcement stopped responding to calls years ago because their employees were getting murdered. They starting asking for police escorts and then started advocating for the police to handle everything.
This is a problem that cannot be fixed easily.
Personal note that may seem irrelevant but stay with me for a moment: I’ve spent most of my life studying the Satanic Panic and the psychotherapeutic pseudoscience that played a large role in starting and driving the 2 decade modern witch hunt. Repressed/recovered memory pseudoscience is incredibly dangerous bunk. It was supported by many on the left during the Satanic Panic and this is often missing from the conversation even though it was well documented at the time.
Radical feminists heavily promoted RM pseudoscience and Satanic Ritual Abuse conspiracies in multiple countries.
RM bunk was promoted on Uni campuses in the late 1980s and 1990s.
Over a decade ago it made a comeback on multiple campuses. It was rebranded, as usual.
Almost every group that is allegedly supporting efforts to defund the police as a way to reduce injustice is promoting this pseudoscience. A pseudoscience that drastically increases injustice while eroding - removing collective rights. That’s not even getting into the large amount of abuse that goes hand in hand with therapies designed to recover memories. It’s been one of the most grotesque things seen since lobotomies and electric shock, and the majority of patients are women and children.
This is a major problem. Many groups are working against their own goals. Many left wing groups have been supporting and funding police being retrained in dangerous pseudoscience. They have supported police being retrained to violate more of your rights.
Not all initiatives all bad, or entirely bad. Most of the riot gear and armored vehicles police obtain comes from military programs. It’s hand me downs of equipment that is rotting/not being used. This same initiative also provides generators and several other pieces of equipment that aid low income departments and help in search and rescue efforts, natural disasters, etc.
Advocating to do away with the entire program, as many do, isn’t wise.
One more note on the Satanic Panic, particularly the daycare hysteria that started 10 years into it…
This was due to a movement that wanted to replace police investigations into abuse with investigations headed by social workers, and therapists.
It didn’t go well.
You can’t blindly leap into everything. There needs to be a lot of research on pros/cons and potential harms.
Some are doing this with a few programs but there is an excess of s**t, too.
You know what would have been a great thing to do?
Discuss and promote black vegans.
Talk about vegan-adjacent political issues that affect black people like food deserts/food access, food justice, food autonomy.
But instead, you've doubled down on a bad take.
Did you not discuss this with your black friends?
Do you not actually know any black people?
Yes, if she didn't feel compelled to speak specifically about BLM, she could have 1. promoted black vegan companies and influencers 2. talked about how veganism has a race issue 3. said absolutely nothing at all, which would not have been a good look, but infinitely better than this.
Josh Segal people were also specifically attacking and mocking Chinese food, saying they eat bats and Chinese restaurants are disease ridden... that’s just not true, it’s based on vile racial stereotypes. And plenty Chinese food is plant based- she could talk about white vegans embracing tofu but not supporting the cultures it comes from. There’s so many racial issues that intersect with food and can also relate to veganism she could have talked about instead of this garbage.
pretty sure she’s said in the past she lives in Oregon, a state that’s nearly all white because of ~various historical property law and triple lettered hate group related reasons~ so yeah, she probably doesn’t know many people of colour
@Danny Wade You're right! That's why so many take issue with her supposed 'single issue activism' because there's strength in numbers! The issues we talk about are not self-inflicted, they require those outside of the communities in question to stand in solidarity. It's not an either/or, and considering that many advocacy groups are taking the intersectional approach, ask yourself why Swayze preoccupied herself with this discussion instead? Choices were made.
This comment wins
It's not racist to believe historically and systemically oppressed voices should be lifted up and be the leaders of the movement. That is how we combat pervasive and systematic bias and overcome it.
How do you lift up opressed voices (in this case black people) if you’re not allowed to speak up on the matter if you’re not black? Bit of a contradiction there. The slavery ended thanks to the initiative of white people in positions of power (not only in the US), why ask for allyship but demand complete obedience from everyone non-black? If a white person wants to offer support do you refuse it becase it’s not the type of support you want? It makes no sense.
@@minime7375 nobody said they couldn't speak on it. They said oppressed voices should be the LEADERS of the movement.
Yes. It would only be wrong if we already were at the same level, which we aren't.
Her point reminded me of when anti-feminists say "Why is your equality movement called FEMinism?".
Because we are not at an equal level yet and need to elevate the disadvantaged group, even though of course some aspects of the oppression harm the ones who mostly benefit from it too sometimes.
MiniMe lmao slavery ended because of white initiative? Not black people rising up in revolution and damaging enough property, causing enough ruckus that white people HAD to stop it? Try again.
Alexandra Y. I recommend you study your country’s history in more depth than they teach you in schools. That goes for everyone posting uninformed replies. Also if i hear “opression” one more time i’m going to vomit. You don’t know what opression is, the poorest of the poor in the US is richer and more free than millions of people around the world. Who opresses you, did you have your parents arrested in the middle of the night because of a joke mocking the regime? Were you denied college education based on your family? Did you ever have to wait in a line for hours just to buy bread or milk? Were you forced to work in a factory or in the fields at the age of 10? If not, you’re not opressed. All the negative things that i listed happen in countries where the people in power actually opress the population.
The most encouraging thing about all of this is seeing how many of your viewers actually do get it.
AGREED
Leon... I don’t have to there’s plenty of comments, the majority, voicing my opinion.
im so happy
I am so disappointed in you. But one thing I want to point out--there were five ads on this video. If you do support BLM, put your money where your mouth is and donate your proceeds from this mess of a video.
@Rational Media emotional bullying????? so you're racist or ??? you can just come out and say it 👀
@Rational Media are you Unnatural Vegan, just commenting defending yourself using a different account?
@English Woodland black lives matter doesnt have anything to do with marxism? but okay? try again?
@English Woodland being Marxists is complete irrelevant to the discussion. Their marxist take just means they recognize how capitalism plays a role in the oppression of black people (slavery, school to prison pipeline, the department of justice report done on ferguson police showing how they were profitting off of harassing black people)
That's actually a really good point. I'd respect her much more for that.
I used to agree with you on the issue of supposedly "mindlessly repeating talking points," until I realized that that relies upon the assumption that points made by black activists aren't worth repeating. As a white person, I've gotten a lot into leftism and activism on various issues that don't affect me, and I've never felt like I "couldn't speak" or that people wanted me to just "repeat talking points." What has happened is that I have taken the time to not only listen to everything every random black person has to say, but to read serious black thinkers like Angela Davis and Malcolm X, and to listen to the lived experiences of BIPOC, which unto itself made me value their "talking points," because they have experienced things I cannot understand. I still don't agree with listening to "everything every black person ever says," and I don't feel that this has been asked of me. But when the black community at large, from the working class and black trans women with no platform at all up to icons in the black community like Davis, generally shares the same or similar perspective, it's most likely based on an understanding that I don't have, and therefore is something I should make an attempt to understand- and THEN repeat/amplify it. Not because I was told to, but because it's genuinely the right thing to do.
That is great I am glad you found a topic that interests you. I think the most beautiful test to see if you understand something is to say it in your own words ;)
YES. Exactly so we’ll said
Precisely. And re. "Defund the police"-- the police are simultaneously underpaid while being grossly overfunded. It's the allocation of funds, the budgeting and pay structure, that makes it so cops are underpaid. You (Unnatural Vegan) make it seem clear that you are not open to new information, as you generalize these criticisms as being a doomed echochamber, assuming that we aren't capable of actual research. Many of us who share these beliefs have educated ourselves our entire lives or have college degrees in these subjects like politics and sociology. You are willfully remaining uninformed and resisting the true sentiments rather than choosing to educate yourself. I don't even know where to begin with this video honestly.
Edit: and you refuse to books written by scientists with what you consider or assume to be extremist views? You're intentionally exclusive with what science you choose to expose yourself to? As if legitimate scientists can't have extremist views?
And your thumbnail: "pity poor me. not only am I doubling down no apologies, but I, the victim, am blatantly & carelessly disregarding any criticism." I'm still honestly surprised how much is wrong with this video, I've barely scratched the surface.
I believe you are not understanding her statement of education. She is referring to higher education and deductive thoughts and reasoning and not only listening to someone's experience. If we look at the numbers (BLM will hate this) very few blacks are killed by white police officers compared to other races. I believe she is open to FACTS, not conjecture.
Defunding the police~ We can't do that it will not work. Do we need to change policies...heck YES! I have heard some asinine ideas on this. The bottom line is (and many black people have said this) burning down buildings or your community doesn't work and that is a knee jerk reaction emotionally. When I found out last night 3 cops were poisoned in NYC many things went through my mind that were not good. The difference is I want justice (legally) for those that were hurt and my reaction at first was inappropriate. I will be honest and will get hate but this is the truth...the people that are rioting (not protesting there is a difference) have not matured enough to get past their emotions and to think logically. The only way to make effective change is to sit down at a table and come up with a solution. Defunding the police or stealing a TV in the name of one of those killed is irrational at best! I wish people could put their own egos aside act like an adult and have a conversation.
This
Y’all she compared BLM to Ben Shapiro and the ALT right, and about her precious free speech is under attack...”extremist”? I-....there’s so much ignoring this video...
That's when I stopped watching
mannypedib Same unsubscribed!
Her 'sceptic' both sides approach really jumped out lmao
"Are you saying all white people are against equal rights for everyone" - No, Swayze, that's not what I'm saying at all. What I am saying is that black people who have lived experiences BEING black (something white people will never have) know more about the struggles of black life under white supremacy than white people do, and should be the ones leading the effort for black liberation.
ALL white people (yes - ALL) benefit from white supremacy - even the well-meaning, educated, and "woke" white folks. Just like all animal farmers benefit from maintaining their livestock - no matter how sympathetic they may be, no matter how much they window dress the slaughtering of animals with marketing terms like 'humanely raised," etc. - they benefit from the system being maintained, they benefit from empty incrementalism, and thus should NOT be leading the movement to end animal farming.
Radical change almost only ever comes from the outside. Expecting a deeply-rooted and established system like the prison industrial complex, for example, which literally profits off the labor of imprisoned black bodies, to suddenly stop one day and go "oh, actually, you're right! We're so sorry, we'll stop disproportionately arresting black men for small crimes and marijuana possession and release all non-violent offenders now!"... is comically unrealistic.
So yes, white people can and should be allies to the black liberation movement, they should seek the educate themselves, but they should be taking their cues from the black community, and listening to their needs. I don't understand how that is even remotely controversial and the fact that you don't see it is seriously worrying.
There are plenty of black perspectives on this that the media ignores. You can seek them out and easily find them but most people nowadays unfortunately are unwilling to do so and get defensive.
This is a perfect summary. How she cannot understand this is so troubling.
This is well said. I think she thought that if you are non black then you can't be in BLM in a leadership position. For example if there was a team of 10 people leading a BLM campaign, 8 were Black and two were not would this be a problem? What if the 2 of the 10 had connections and expertise to support the other 8 to make the movement do well. The civil rights movement had many white and non black people in leadership roles. They may have not been the face of the movement as we know Martian Luther King Jr was one of the main faces.
I think that BLM or any other movement that talks about the marginalization and safety of human beings based off of race, or nationality should have someone from that race or nationality leading the movement. And that when people who are not inherently effected by it or have privilege can be of immense help then the people of that movement can choose if their experience/expertise would elevate their movement.
So long point is 80/20 rule.
“We know through painful experience that freedom is never voluntarily given by the oppressor; it must be demanded by the oppressed.” -MLK
👏👏👏👏👏
Here's the thing you still don't get. You felt it necessary to make a video about how people shouldn't have to speak out on something instead of either speaking or staying silent on it.
That's why it came off to people the way it did. You took time on your platform to essentially say "this is my platform and you can't tell me what to do".
No one expects an apology because it's a waste of time expecting one from someone so privileged to make videos, during a particular social crisis, about how they shouldn't be forced to speak on it even though they have pointed out how other vegans have failed to have compassion for other sentient beings.
I think it makes perfect sense, because there was already overwhelming public advocacy for BLM but nobody really from Swayze's position putting out her viewpoint. So, her making the video was kind of adding a new viewpoint, and thus worthwhile.
@@swirlyful yea. Just like there was no one from Swayze's privileged white woman position putting out their racist anti-black view points. That would've been worthwhile!!
Are you serious? What value did she add to the conversation? She could've kept her tone deaf viewpoint.
Sorry, you're going to have to try something else.
@@notthefather3919 speak on itt
this IS her platform. Why let yourself be bothered by what she says on it. That's kind of the point.
@@lalabox777 wait, the woman who had made a career out of pointing out what others are doing wrong on their platforms?
Please. Try again.
I think the main irony is this: You say that you want to focus on only veganism because it provides your viewers with carefully researched and well-thought-out content. Great, wonderful, love it, why I'm subscribed.
The issue is that you feel like you can flippantly make TWO 30 minute videos where you talk about BLM and race politics and simultaneously acting like you know what you're talking about while also admitting you don't know much about it at all. The fact that you can say "I'll just make a 30 minute video about BLM and race politics" and not do the research that you so desperately needed to do honestly speaks volumes. I had an entire written reaction to the whole video but I think this is all I really need to say.
I'll be withdrawing Patreon support because I honestly feel just sick with how uninformed you're comfortable with being. I hope you change your mind. I am still here for the vegan videos though. I started watching you fully intending to never stop eating meat, and I now intend to go vegan. I'm grateful that I was here to hear your criticisms of other vegans, the meat industry, and the harm and cruelty occurring every single day which we vote for whenever we buy meat and animal products. But man, if advocating for single issue advocacy makes a person say things like you've said...that's not a good case for single issue advocacy.
Edit: Someone asked to provide some resources to learn more, and I think this should go in the body of my comment since I got a lot of thumbs up on this comment.
We Were Eight Years in Power by Ta-Nehisi Coates
How to be an Antiracist by Ibram X. Kendi
Why I'm No Longer Talking to White People About Race by Reni Eddo-Lodge
Any essay by James Baldwin
Anything by bell hooks (she's good to read especially if you have trouble understanding why "reverse racism" isn't a thing.)
YES so well said. honestly disappointing
Okay but like, can you give us some of those resources so we can get the information shes missing? Like some examples? Because honestly, shes gotten me way more on to the BLM movement with these two vidoes than a lot of other things I've seen.
It really seems like she has a double standard when it comes to how much research she’s willing to do for this topic v. literally all her other videos on veganism lmao
You guys are dragged into a horrible BLM cult, please wake up!!!
“Jack of all trades, master of none” left out the “but better than a master of one”
idk i wasnt expecting you to be so random about this. why not fully research the topic like you do all your other content.
She is such a disappointment to everyone and that is why she is so random with this. She will say anything for validation from either side
Swayze has a history of playing devil's advocate when it comes to racism.
She hates POC.
Sofi Unnatural Vegan is racist. It doesn’t mean all her other videos are suddenly garbage but if you continue to subscribe, know that she is that awful thing.
How dare you have an opinion if you’re not an expert on the subject. You must have hate in your heart.🙄
Incredible lack of self-awareness and disregard to think critically about the issues your viewers raise. So much in this video and the last reflects willful ignorance. Your subscribers can be a wealth of knowledge if you respect their opinions enough to consider.
What wilful ignorance were you thinking of? I'm sure you have read Glenn Loury, John McWhorter, Coleman Hughes, and other black writers who criticise elements of BLM, right?
@Hailey Nicole I'm not tone policing, I'm suggesting they are ignorant of certain black perspectives. They are acting as if reasonable disagreement is impossible. Somehow I suspect you haven't read the same writers.
@@PhilosophyLines Black people aren't a monolith. Just because there are black writers who disagree with BLM's tactics doesn't mean BLM's tactics are fundamentally wrong.
“If you don’t want carefully researched science and philosophy videos I can understand if this channel isn’t for you” ....dude you have to understand how defensive this sounds when SO many of the commentators seem to be longtime subscribers and people who avidly watch and enjoy your videos. It seems like the most common response is that it is really disappointing and an aberration for you to do so little research and reflection before posting about a topic. Seriously, what is more likely: that hundreds or thousands of people who ordinarily enjoy your content actually DO hate reason and logic and their reaction to these two videos proves it-or that that you have a blind spot on this topic and missed the mark here?
I think she was addressing people who don’t normally watch her videos and cake because they were referred by a friend. I would assume that many people aren’t interested in philosophy videos or just don’t get philosophy (which is fine, it’s not taught in school to virtually anyone), so it makes sense to me that she included that disclaimer. However, I can’t say for sure because I don’t know her motives. If I were to give her advice for making this message less unpalatable, I would ask her to be very conscious of her tone (she tends to be smug) and for gods sake do not discuss animal crossing at the end!!
As someone who thinks in an extremely similar way to you (namely utilitarianism/consequentalism) when it comes to policy efficacy and ethics, I really wanted to give you the benefit of the doubt about your first video. I don't believe that you made either of these videos with malicious intentions, nor do I believe that your misunderstanding of some of these issues are rooted in racism. Rather I think that your argument is based on a miscalculation of the consequences of silence (in this case vegan silence) on BLM and race issues. I understand your concern about the public protests given COVID-19 as that is something I have worried about myself, but I would argue that not all forms of protest have to involve physical demonstrations. In fact, the majority of BLM activists have spread awareness during this pandemic through digital means, especially social media. I also am sympathetic to your concerns about defunding the police, but I would again argue that supporting BLM does not necessarily mean you have to support defunding the police. The main concern for BLM is spreading awareness about systemic racism within the justice system, especially in law enforcement. There are some disagreements within the movement regarding solutions, but everyone at least acknowledges that police brutality is real and something needs to be done about it. Supporting BLM is essentially just saying you acknowledge that police brutality disproportionately impacts black people and you support police reform.
I really want to believe that your reasoning is based on legitimate utilitarian concern for BLM's efficacy in reducing suffering, but you really lost me when you started suggesting that BLM activists are "racist" against white people for wanting to favor black voices over white ones when it comes to issues that directly impact black people. It really ruins your credibility because it shows how ill-informed you are about the pervasive problem of white privilege and its consequences for black people in all areas of life. I agree with you that extremes on both the left and the right are often entirely counterproductive, but you yourself are unintentionally drifting into that territory by espousing such a belief. As a data analyst who has specifically worked with survey data on attitudes towards racial reconciliation, I can tell you that you would be hard-pressed to find someone who believes in "reversed racism" that doesn't lean heavily towards the far right end of the political spectrum. Obviously black people are not a monolith, but in the same way scientific consensus in medicine or climate science matters more than the opinions of random discredited outliers (ie antivax doctors and climate change denying scientists), the opinions of the overwhelming majority of black people are the most relevant when it comes to reducing black suffering. It's not racist to suggest that we listen to them over individual white voices on certain issues when their opinions conflict, even when those white voices are considered experts. Believe it or not, implicit racial bias can distort even experts' assessment of reality and lead to scientific error. Look no further than the fields of psychology and sociology for evidence of how racism impairs the judgment of academics. The idea that there was a connection between race and intelligence was at one point the mainstream view in the scientific community and it wasn't until African-Americans were included in academic circles that this view was discredited (see "Contributions of African Americans to the Field of Psychology,"by Sheila R. Black, Susie A. Spence and Safiya R. Omari).
In regards to your argument that vegans should not feel any more compelled to speak up on racism than they would for any other social justice issue, I would argue that you are using the same logic as anti-vegans who say that "no diet is truly cruelty free so why try?". I know you addressed this in this video, but it doesn't seem like you are really acknowledging the relevance of BLM specifically for vegans (a community that in western countries has largely failed to appeal to black people). This cultural moment has presented the vegan movement with a perfect opportunity to draw in more people of color by showing our solidarity with the black lives matter movement. As a thoughtful consequentialist, such a powerful opportunity to broaden the appeal of veganism should excite you as it would inevitably lead to a reduction in animal suffering. Also, there is a significant practical difference between calling out racial justice right now and calling out other forms of injustice. The attention that has recently been given to police brutality and racism in the media, in politics, and elsewhere has been unprecedented. Even many conservatives who have consistently denied the problem of police brutality in the past have expressed support for police reform and BLM in general. Vegans (at least in the US) would literally have to go out of their way to be silent on racism right now, so comparing BLM to Muslim oppression in China, for example, is not a fair comparison. You're attacking a strawman by claiming that people who say "silence is violence" are telling you that you have to speak up on every issue. No one is asking you to do that. We all know that it's impossible for us to be informed about every single atrocity. The point is that right now BLM is so relevant that it's literally harder to ignore it than it is to speak up about it. Silence is violence in that racial injustice is something that is enabled through passivity (particularly white passivity).
I truly believe that you mean well and want to advocate for only the most effective forms of activism. I know that if you saw concrete data showing that the pros of vegans supporting BLM far outweigh the cons, you would support it in a heart beat. I would encourage you to look more critically at the data and try to open your mind to the possibility that you may be missing something here.
The Relics so so well said❣️
I just want to add from my own experience re Covid19 -- here in Minneapolis, I spent three days with a (racially mixed) group of friends peacefully protesting.
I can't speak for any of the violence, which unfortunately certainly did happen, but our group was 100% non-violent.
And re the virus -- Most of us have elderly family, so we took care not to become carriers in several ways:
* We wore good masks
* We used hand sanitizer before eating anything
*We drove there with all the car windows open so there's plenty of air circulation
*Those of us with vulnerable family or friends avoided close contact with them for the next 14 days
It's been over three weeks now, and none of us have new Covid19 cases amongst our family/friends.
So I just wanted to say it's definitely possible to safely protest.
Much love and stay safe y'all 🙋🏾♀️😘
Great response
I'm on board with a lot of this comment, however -- hi, it's me, your NON right winger who thinks racism is racism period no matter who it's geared towards. It's really infuriating and destructive to perpetuate "people who feel XYZ way about specific philosophies are always/nearly always aligned with ABC political grouping". That's a straight up falsehood and that construct quashes discourse and perpetuates divides by one-dimensionalizing people into false binaries. People CAN disagree with the details and methods and applied beliefs of a movement that's largely left-wing and still NOT conveniently be in the categorically-dismissable Big Bad Other Group (and even if someone is right-wing leaning and has criticisms of the "cAn'T bE rAcIsT aGaInSt wHiTeS" idiocy, their political leanings DON'T ACTUALLY INVALIDATE their criticisms). Really shitty dialectic and toxic circular stereotyping to have dropped in an otherwise quite objective comment. Rhetoric like that is why we can't have nice discussions across the divides between variously-bellied Sneetches. When you discuss a topic in terms of "I assume most people who think X thing are in Y ignorable invalid categories", that just demonstrates several levels of fucked up assumptions and insular thinking.
Excellently put, I hope she reads this.
If you don't feel knowledgeable on the topic, maybe don't speak on it? I think if you had come out and said "I've been asked to talk about this, and frankly, I'm just not knowledgeable enough" I think it would have been received a lot better than "I don't think I or anyone else is obligated to talk about it and let me take 30 minutes to tell you why."
I like you, Swayze, I always have. I'm not walking away from you channel. But I honestly feel like you've spent an hour talking out of your ass in defense of something you have confessed your not knowledgeable on. Specifically telling people that because you're not knowledgeable you maybe shouldn't be talking about it.
Not my favorite Swayze moment.
*you're
Dammit
I agree with this wholeheartedly. You don't have to speak out in support of BLM specifically, but there's a civil rights movement happening outside of your window and your take is we shouldn't pressure people to be supportive of it? I like to see inclusivity in what I support, and I want to hear from everyone that they're taking antiracist actions.
Taylor Moessinger so youre more comfortable with the performance activism?
This is a very interesting perception of what contribution to a discussion means. In you view knowledge is transfered like dumping water from one cup to the other. So if you have never received any bit of water in you cup about blm you shouldn't talk about it. I'd like to disagree here. Imo knowledge is critical and her criticism on the silence is violence crowd or individual commenters was genuine and also adds to the knowledge of everyone.
TeamSugoiFrog I know I am. I'm much more comfortable with people saying they support blm and anti-racism than those making elaborate points on why they shouldn't be obligated to take a stance. even if you don't agree with blm practices as an organization, you can still come out and speak against racism and police brutality. there's no excuse for silence imo
I can’t speak for anyone else, but as a woman of color, I was not looking for your opinion on this. Sure, it would’ve been nice if you vocally supported the movement, but less is more, too. Other vegans I followed online gave their support without saying much of anything. Lauren Toyota from Hot for Food, being one. She highlighted many black vegans and encouraged people to support their pages and channels and also asked her fans to tag other vegan bloggers/vloggers to further spread their content. She didn’t come on her IG with her fist in the air screaming her support for the BLM movement. She genuinely offered to use her large platform to highlight some of the black vegan UA-camr who may not have as much of an audience.
What you did was give a 30 minute dissertation as to why you felt you shouldn’t say anything. There are some white celebrities who have simply stated “I will never understand, but I stand”. Sometimes, that’s good enough. Your “expertise” was not needed for this.
For her to simultaneously say I DON'T have to speak about this then argue that telling her she CAN'T be a leader in the movement is racist....
As a black person who's been subscribed to you for years, I think I need to officially unsubscribe. These videos come across as lazy and entitled, and it really bothers me that you're using Black Lives Matter as clickbait on monetized videos in which you justify why people shouldn't have to support it. You say you support the movement but you're using it for your own gain while also downplaying it's importance and it's kind of gross.
Same. Well said.
Feel free to return once you've broken through your delusion. Until then, you won't be missed.
lol, k bye
リース狼 calling someone delusional because they don’t agree with you is the new calling a woman crazy when she just doesn’t like you lmao
❤️ I’m joining you in unsubscribing
As a doctoral candidate at a R1 University, I can promise you that white scientist and intellectuals don't have the the same understanding of the black experience as any black person. Experiencing something for yourself weighs heavily on your understanding. Knowing what it's like to be black is not like understanding the symptoms and treatment of cancer. There are so many daily intricacies that non-black people will never be able to study in books. This is why black people need to be given a voice and should lead these conversations. This doesn't mean that white people can't contribute and also share their thoughts, but they shouldn't overpower the black voices because this movement is about THEM! And thats even an extreme comparison because usually it's not a question of whether a white scientist, lawyer, economist should lead BLM versus an uneducated black person. There are black intellectuals out there too.. and their black experience only amplifies their education when leading these movements.
As a black person, I've never been able to "pick and choose" whether to care about BLM. Must be nice for you though. The way you're treating this reminds me of how "vegans for health" act. Yes they still support veganism but if they made the empathetic connection to the animals and how it feels to be them then they would most likely think of their veganism a little differently. It wouldn't be about them but about the animals. For a moment, imagine how it would feel to have a loved one wrongfully killed by the police. Or on a smaller scale, imagine if you and your family member got pulled over twice and much, received twice as many tickets, and were most often disrespected. Shit gets really annoying after years and years. And then it sucks even more because you don't even feel comfortable calling the cops when you actually need help because you know there is a chance that it might backfire on you. I guess maybe "defund the police" would sound more extreme to me if I actually benefited at all from their overwhelming presence.
You know a lot about about veganism and I've always respected your informed open mindedness but this is not that same vibe. You seem very defensive and uniformed. The latter is fine. I believe we need to normalize people admitting that they didn't know enough and were wrong about a topic. Saying I don't know enough is a fine excuse; ideally, you should educate yourself afterwards but we can't know everything about all things so I think it's understandable at the least. However, I would encourage you to reflect on why you are so defensive on this topic.
Also, did you say that systemic racism is a conspiracy..? I'm just going to assume I misunderstood you.
Last thing I promise, maybe look into the definition of racist because yikes. Someone stating that 'all white people have implicit bias which has an affect on their activism' is not racist or even predjudice. But you repeatedly used the term incorrectly and it seems like you're throwing it around in a bitter way which is interesting because typically people aren't that defensive about name calling when they KNOW they don't belong to that term.
Systemic racism is real. One really good example: Redlining.
EXACTLY !!!
"There are black intellectuals out there too.. and their black experience only amplifies their education when leading these movements." Really great point.
@M H If you are the doctor that you claim to be then I'm going to trust that you are smart enough to find these studies and statistics on your own. The research has been done; the facts are there.
Furthermore, I'm a structural engineering PhD so, even though I do donate time and efforts towards helping unprivileged communities, my dissertation research doesn't really overlap. But for intersectionality purposes, I have been on a couple engineering ed papers and we've looked at systemic racism and sexism within the engineering education world. Due to these results, we've actually received a NSF grant to work on our departments diversity. Very exciting :) So thank you for the research suggestion but I'm already ahead of you.
Lastly, your ad hominems are quite hypocritical and telling😂
Scáthach i’m assuming that this is highly related to redlining but also: suburbia was originally just for white people.
It's not helpful to call black people racist when they just want someone who has experienced what they experienced to be the leader of their group.
Imagine a self-help group for women who experienced rape and sexual assault and they didn't want a man who may has studied gender roles but has never made any sexist experiences himself to lead their meetings and speak to the public on their behalf. Would you call these women sexist?
It's not discrimination if you think that someone who has personally experienced injustice is more fitted to lead a justice movement.
A self-help group is not comparable to a social movement. You just proposed a fallacy known as false equivocation. That group would be to improve the emotional status of the participants on a micro level. The changes we need right now are on a government level. The intention of the blm movement is to make changes in society itself. We need experts to verify that these are the changes we need. Now, everyone can agree that experts are needed. If you choose less qualified experts only because they are black, then yes. That is racist.
@@ig7002 I get what you're trying to say, maybe I should've rather compared it to the "Me too" movement. My core statement was that someone who has experienced a specific kind of injustice like racism has more credibility and is more suitable to lead an injustice movement. For example someone who has experienced sexual assault is more suited to lead "Me too" and someone who has experienced racism first hand is better fit to lead "Black lives matter". Do you agree or disagree with that?
jeez swayze, how’d you manage to make this video even worse than the original?
I thought the same thing. I am shocked by her response to this to be honest.
She only said that vegans shouldn’t be forced to talk about this topic. Very reasonable. She didn’t say she doesn’t support BLM, she just said we shouldn’t harass or shame people who decide to stay silent. It’s of course not ideal not to say anything, but it is allowed.
I just want the people in the comments to understand that there is a difference between the performative activism we can see on social media that supposedly signal what people care about and not saying anything on your platform but doing the work in your personal life by attending protests, donating to non-profits, volunteering, and calling out racism you see in your daily lives. Not everything you do for the cause has to be in social media and just bc it is doesn’t mean you care; and just bc it isn’t, it doesn’t mean you don’t.
Absolutely! There’s also a difference between saying “hey, I know I have a platform and you’re probably wondering how I feel. I support BLM but I’m contributing offline”
And
making 2 videos about why she thinks it’s okay to be quiet when she has a large platform where she almost exclusively shares her opinion on topics.
Alyssa Kidwell i Will say she often doesn’t talk a lot about social justice issues going on around the world and more often than not stays in her vegan lane (which is fine). But I will say exerting this much energy for your view point on this (which ngl i could have made so much better if she told me to write the script lol) does seem counterproductive
But she's now done two videos on the topic that would have been time better spent educating her followers on systemic racism and laws. Not debating whether or not she should be obliged to support an activist group just because she's a vegan.
BigBeatlesFan121 I get you 👍
Yep! This is a great comment especially for our time. Many white people have started posting about BLM recently, and unfortunately, much of their activism on social media does not reflect outside of there. As a white ally, I make sure to expand my activism outside of social media, for instance, by donating and volunteering, as well as having important conversations with friends and family about racism. This is a great point to see anywhere, especially at this time when many who talk the talk of activism do not walk the walk.
Seems to me you misinterpreted the "black space" argument. No one was trying to take away your right to free speech, they were simply saying that your video takes the focus off of the issues that matter and puts it on fringe insignificant issues instead, and you should consider that when making the video. "You shouldn't have made that video, it caused harm" is not the same as "you should have no right to free speech."
Theres a spectrum between silence and mindless parroting/ all consuming activism though right? It takes one minute to say "hey i am not the best educated to be a resource on the matter, but i want to be clear that racism has no place on my channel and racist comments will be deleted" (or whatever). Like idk, how clothing stores might put an LGBT pride flag in their window. It's not relevant to their content, its not saying "we are an lgbt resource", but it signifies "we want to stand with you and try to make you safe here"
Yeah! Drop a couple of donation links to bail funds or other similar charities alongside the typical animal charity links with a quick post in the community tab. You don't need to change your channel content to make that happen!
lmao stores that put rainbow flags up aren't doing it to sHoW sUpPoRt they want your money.
but she clearly has publically supported blm (on twitter). people still somehow miss her point - she's not saying she herself is against ever posting anything blm, she was just talking about how it's illogical to expect and demand an entire catagory of activists for another cause to extend their activism to it. she herself has in fact tweeted and retweeted about it, so how are people still attacking her personally for not supporting blm? i dont understand
Thank you!
But why do you think they do this? I’m gay and even I recognize it is for their financial gains.
I love it when white people say, "black people are not a monolith". Of course we're not, but consensus matters and right now the consensus among the black community is that we're sick and tired, of dying at the hands of police, of having a poorer quality of life, of being 60 years out from legal segregation being abolished but still dealing with being 2nd class citizens in many respects. Stop trying to cherry pick to suit your needs or arguments and just listen. Close your mouth and listen.
Do you realize how often you chuckle about the arguments of people who are not of your opinion? Is everything that doesnt line up with your views or what you think is the only possible logical way of thinking ridiculous?
Yes, this was very much bothering me as well. Incredibly condescending.
when taking about black spaces there is a point you are not understanding. Black people aren't saying that white people should not have their own opinions on black issues. The point being made is that there are and should be spaces for black people to conjugate, talk, share experiences, feelings, and opinions without white people interjecting. Think of it this way, if you are a person who suffers from alcoholism or you have ptsd, or go to meetings for parents with autistic children, you do not want a person who does not experience these things to constantly be in your meetings giving their opinion on your issues, experiences, and life! and you cant say well what about the therapist that help these people, they aren't their to give opinions but to give support and listen which is what white people should do. for so long white people have been in positions of power, feeding us their opinions, their policies, their solutions, and who has it served. Please tell because I want to know. What you don't understand is that black people have been going through the trauma for years, this trauma is rooted from systemic racism, racial disparities, systemic oppression, poverty, cultural encapsulation, white supremacy, ethnocentric monoculturalism , generational incarceration, human degradation, and dehumanization. When trauma repeatedly occurs at some point people get exhausted and need a safe space, their own space and if this does not include white people and their opinions then so be it. There is a time a place for everything including white opinions, and when we are ready to share to white people we just want y'all to listen and support.
So are you Ok with white people having their own white safe spaces, where black people are not welcomed?
The comparison to supportgroups gave me a deeper understanding than I had. Thank you for educating!
Agata Jabłońska The point is that white people already have these spaces. Most spaces in America are made for and predominantly run by white people. Black peoples are excluded and pushed out from these spaces.
Agata Jabłońska if we use the example of a support group for people with PTSD...why would people without PTSD need to go off and start their own non PTSD group? It would make no sense. Black people having spaces where they can be unapologetically themselves and talk about their experiences without white people stepping to try to invalidate them is totally valid. Why would you create a whites only group? So you can be unapologetically racist without be called out for it?
Agata Jabłońska I'm completely ok with that. To be honest they already occupy many spaces in which they are allowed to be themselves and share their experiences without being given an opinion from other, specifically black people.
The Animal Crossing tangent in this video was extremely tone deaf and inappropriate
I am rather certain that Swayze did that purposefully.
Ya'll are exhausting
I am terribly disappointed in you. As a person who did such a good job learning how wrong you were about the benefits of a raw food diet, I don't understand why you cannot and will not apply the same sense of personal humility to another subject that you either truly do not understand or are willfully twisting to support your already-formed opinions. It might not be today, and it might not be tomorrow, but if you are the good person I would like to believe you are, some day, you will look back on both of these videos, and you will cringe just as hard.
I have watched through both of the videos in full before commenting. So please do not hide behind the excuse that I didn't watch your videos or listen to what you said, as you have done for so many other viewers calling you out for hurtful comments.
You continue to indicate in your counter-arguments that you are right and anyone who disagrees with anything you have said either didn't watch, didn't listen, didn't pay attention, is under-informed, or is somehow racist against white people. Let's put aside the fact that white people cannot suffer from racism because their skin colour is not used as an excuse to oppress them by those who are members of the powerful majority (which is white people).
The aggregate of your assertions is childish. You are being childish, stubborn, selfish, and willfully ignorant. You've misrepresented the concerns of your viewers, you've insulted us, and you've chastised us for being uninformed -- all while you yourself seem to be hearing for the first time about important subjects related to this cause from the very comments you're reading. This makes you also hypocritical, and as you're using straw man arguments to support your hypocrisy, you're also being intentionally fallacious.
If all you were saying was "we shouldn't bully people if we don't personally see them speak out about a particular issue," you wouldn't have so many thought-provoking, detailed, explanatory comments from disappointed and inflamed long-time viewers who are desperate for you to see what you've done, and continued to do, wrong.
You have also said that it's fine for white people to talk over Black people so long as the white person is an "expert" who somehow "knows better" than Black people what Black people need.
You have also said that the need for Black spaces is awful and racist.
You have also said that people who disagree with you and point out that Black voices should be lifted up and amplified by white people, in order to help address the built-in inequity that automatically suppresses those voices, are somehow racist.
You haven't only advocated for a reduction in bullying - which could have easily been a video about cancel culture and the wild assumptions it sometimes makes - you have used the cause of BLM to insensitively and ignorantly attack and hurt your viewers who support the fight for the removal of the systemic barriers to equity.
I am ashamed. I've always thought you were much more mature than this.
Thank you, this needed to be said.
It's buckwild to me, that she can call Freelee out for doing this, but can't see it in herself. Criticism is not bullying, it is not because people are too emotional, it is not a misunderstanding. This is actual constructive criticism for her.
Bumping in hopes she reads this
White people can't be discriminated against? What are you talking about? If an Asian guy punches a white guy only because he hates white people, what is it, if not racism against a white person?
Your heartfelt comment really highlights just how much she's hurting her (especially black) viewers with these two videos. It's all just so, so sad and disappointing.
Gosh, you’re totally missing the entire point and truly taking too much personally. It’s simply not about you. That’s all. The point is you can’t center your whiteness in this movement. That’s all. No one would begin to try to silence you. Geez.
but isn't that what this video is about? it's not her place to advocate for bml because she is neither black nor an expert on the issue. so she doesn't want to talk about it publicly on her job. the 30 minutes of her talking might have confused many viewers as to what exactly her point is but this originated because people pressured her to talk about things she didn't feel comfortable talking about... which is exactly what you critizice her for
I’ve unsubscribed. I have been transitioning to a more plant-based lifestyle and trying to find someone I agree with but you are not it. I beg you to watch Cheap Lazy Vegan’s (Rose) video. It is very comprehensive and focused unlike yours. You’ve posted two 34 minute videos saying you support BLM but that’s not the message I received.
Commenters shouldn’t have to explain everything they mean. TAKE A LOOK AT YOUR RATINGS MORE PEOPLE HAVE DISLIKED THAN LIKED and it’s not because they don’t know what they’re talking about or they want you to stop advocating for veganism, it’s because you decided to speak and show that you don’t actually know what BLM stands for or what defunding the police means.
It was so painful for me to watch these videos and see where you stand. You won’t know what it’s like to feel oppressed and so I think you should do some research and listening just to understand what you are supporting.
On “silence is violence”, I think it is doing more harm than good at this point. The goal was to have people say if they support BLM or not and spread awareness. It’s very simple and I’ve seen a lot of UA-camrs just post a small thing saying Black Lives Matter and a link to the website. I don’t really believe that silence is violence unless someone is a bystander in a situation and they don’t report it or at least tell the truth when questioned.
I think it was really immature to say that people are conspiracy theorists and that they’re uneducated. It’s invalidating and the exact reason that Black Spaces exist. They just want to be heard. Black people aren’t in power and we are just looking for real equality and that won’t come from people who benefit from the system that brings them up and pushes us down.
You will probably never have to teach your children how not to not get killed by the police and that is why black voices need to be heard and taken seriously.
Probably not a good idea to only seek out people you agree with. That's called an echo chamber
Black people are not in power because America is a majority white country. Just the same as white people are not in power in India. Are there white spaces there?
She started out criticizing someone from Anonymous for the Voiceless for doing the same thing she has spent two videos doing.
It’s honestly ridiculous how she can’t see what’s she’s doing.
exactly!
So I missed the first video, and based on the “this is not an apology” vibe, I thought I was gonna come to the comments and see everyone ignorant on BLM and she is standing up for the cause...but now I see it is the opposite!
Same!
Exactly what I was expecting! God was this a disappointment
I’m happy there are comments giving resources about BLM!
It’s extremely Disappointing......
You're coming across as ignorant and insensitive, which is especially emphasized by the fact that you ended this video talking about animal crossing. Maybe take your own advice and not talk about BLM anymore - you're definitely not obligated to, especially if you're going to spout off on issues you don't know about. Take some time to listen to Black voices. I agree with other commenters that you're going to look back on these two vids and cringe.
Edit to say that I generally enjoy your content and I appreciate that you question things and form your own opinions, but these two videos are really making me reconsider watching this channel.
One more thing: You're criticizing people for being "extremists" for using words like "violence" and "racism," while casually calling a whole bunch of commenters racist. Hmmm... yeah I gotta unsub.
I as well will no longer be supporting her videos. This was disturbing and eye opening. Thank you for being an ally people like you are very important to the cause.
I just came back to the video to look at the comments again. I used to love her content and would just binge watch older videos while doing housework or meal prep. I could kinda ignore her take on intersectionality (those videos have been removed now) but this went too far. Watching her leaves a really bitter taste in my mouth now
Wow what a hard listen this was. Theres so much wrong information and you have such a condescending attitude towards the critisism.
I think one of the worst things is how you keep stating you're not a racist. Racism isnt that black and white (no pun intended), You can care about black lives and still act racist and have racist thoughts and opinions. I see a lot of comments and videos from black people that took offence to your video, so to just shake their opinions and their hurt feelings off by claiming you're "not a racist" is extremely... Well, racist.
But i dont know why i bother trying to make you understand this, its clear you dismiss all of this critisism as hate.
A lot of white people really think that racism is just self-professed racists, when in actuality the racism that tends to affect people the most is the kind that doesn't wear it's bigotry on it's sleeve. That kind of racism, the kind that doesn't call itself racist, is much more insidious because white people who can't see it for what it is end up defending it or saying it's just people expressing their opinion or "just facts" or "just a preference" or whatever. Racism isn't just people who are aware and proud of the fact that they don't like Black people, although that is obviously also racism. The world would be a hell of a lot simpler if it was. I mean shit, I've heard Neo Nazi leaders say they aren't racist. Many white supremacists say "I'm not racist, I'm just looking at the facts of race and I'm trying to be realistic about the solutions!"
@Hailey Nicole Especially because those people believe they're being anti-racist! When in fact they're doing the opposite by thinking everyone is "the same" and not "seeing colour" -- that's how we get ideas like "affirmative action is racist against white people" and other nonsense. It makes sense if you take a surface-level look at it ie "this gives one group preference over another, therefore it is racist" but that's because the colourblind approach to racism leaves out all history, context, and collected data about racism. It ends up being racism presenting as tolerance, and the people who do it *really* believe they're all about equality, fairness, and tolerance. I've noticed this happens a lot with people who don't have a diverse group of people in their life as a side note.
"Painting people who don't support the BLM as a monolith is frankly racist" - does she hear herself?
How many times does she say "you're being racist against Whites" (paraphrasing of course) in the video? I think it's four....
@@mlorpf what's even sadder is that people literally seem to believe it's impossible to be racist to a white person. You can be racist to any race lol
@@jrh6707 That's not how racism works. Anyone can have prejudices. White people don't experience racism. Use Google about why I would say that before you reply with your wrong ass opinion. Thx
@@Angelickumi People can be racist to any "race". White included. It's in the name... It's prejudice against a "race"/ethnic group and believing one is superior or inferior to another. I know at least 2 places where white people suffer racism. Also not saying white people suffer as much racism as other ethnic groups just saying it is possible.
@@BloodyWiccaG I'm going to literally copy/paste something as a response to this comment. I read the below the other day and I felt that it explained it very well. I don't know what the two places on this planet, you're talking about, are - but I believe by large that this applies to western countries. And especially in this context. A black American simply does not have the power to be racist towards a white American. "Taking this definition at its word, then, would suggest that it is possible for a person of any race to experience racism if someone treats them badly for this reason - even white people. But this definition of racism leaves out one crucial element: The power structures that uphold and perpetuate racism. Racism doesn’t exist in a vacuum. It exists within a hierarchical structure with power at its core. Racism only works because one group has power and other groups do not. And it is white people who - historically, and in the West at least - hold the power when it comes to racial divides, thanks to centuries of Eurocentric beliefs and structures that continue to privilege and centre whiteness."
You need to stop throwing the term racist around like this without looking at your own faults. Everyone is racist too some capacity, because we are literally raised in a racist society. But many of the people who commented were voicing their frustration with your video and not “being racist”. Also racism against white people isn’t really a thing, which you seem to believe as you state it multiple times, because our skin color hasn’t ever actually made our lives harder in any way.
Black people need too lead the movement, because it’s THEIR experience. Black people need a respected space, because they haven’t GOT one. White people need too listen and amplify black voices, because they NEED to be heard. If they actively speak over a black person, that IS a race problem, even if it isn’t a super educated bipoc. It’s still their experience.
I think it’s troubling, that you’re not letting any criticism close too you, you’re just using the comments too reinforce what you think. You’re not even really listening too your black followers. In a way, you’re resting on your white privilege by trying too defend your own viewpoint, rather than seriously considering that of others. This excludes statements which you already agree with, of course.
You’re handling people that want too reason with you, by laying out their struggles and viewpoints, through telling them to unsubscribe and calling them racist, or problematic. If you can make a video about a “stupid fucking videogame” when it’s relevant, but not about a massively important movement when it’s FINALLY relevant, you’re not using your reach for the right purpose. YES you’re a vegan activist. YES ,you’re a feminist. I am too, both of those things. But downplaying what’s happening in the states right now, just because animals still suffer, and simply because there is other issues still happening, is ignorant.
Well said
I would suggest considering how a black person (who most likely is already emotionally exhausted) would feel watching these videos. Would they feel supported? Would they feel seen? Would they feel safe?
Why would someone saying that they support BLM (but have healthy scepticism of certain claims of the organisation, like some black people) but adding that they don't think people should be shamed for not making pronouncements regarding it make black people feel 'unsafe' or 'not seen'?
I would suggest considering that maybe not all black people are emotionally exhausted, some black people actually feel empowered. There's a lot of generalisations going on lately. For example, would an empowered black person NEED to be supported by UV ? Do they NEED to be seen by UV ? Does their safety RELY on UV ? I don't think so. Not everybody in any one ethnic group thinks the same way.
What are you talking about? How one of Swayze's viewers feels is not at all her responsibility. How we each feel regarding ourselves and society is on us
Many black people agree with Unnatural Vegan. BLM is a scam anyway.
It really seems like you're being willfully ignorant at this point in the video, and it's become more important for you to argue back and debunk some of the comments than actually try to take in what they're saying. The whole thing about experts in the field knowing best, etc.; what field? You mention economists and psychologists and criminologists sort of, but what role do you really see these experts playing in coming up with your "empirical solutions" to racist police violence? Also: it doesn't take much to realize that any expert, in any field, attempting to help solve issues of racism in a community would be that much more helpful if they have experience that drives that work. That's the case for many social workers. It's not necessarily a case of either/or; "either a black person with a history of living these problems" OR "an expert who can come in and solve these issues with DATA and SCIENCE". The point is to let the community speak out about what their needs are and lead the charge for solutions. That doesn't mean every single person involved HAS to be black, but it would make perfect sense if most who are closely involved are. "Being black isn't a credential", well it is for understanding the black experience?? But I guess you'd rather get that info secondhand from these "experts"?
Yes, felt the same way.
Very well put
100% agree
She said we must listen to black people's experience to come up with solutions. But I agree that experts aren't the only ones who can come up with solutions by far
and this also goes off the whole “intellectualizing racism” thing. ofc there are stats to back it up. but if that’s the only thing you’re listening to we have a problem.
I understand that you are validated by the usual good feedback relating to the research and overall understanding that goes into your other 'vegan' content. However, that does not mean you know it all. If you are surprised by the criticism you have received, take a moment to understand why. Humility will take you a long way.
Mission Control she’s surprised by the criticism because she didn’t realize that so many of her fans were woke nut jobs.
@@kurtfranklin2680 "nut jobs"? OK 🙄 I support the movement and also agreed on everything she said, but some of the commenters have valid criticisms, and them voicing those criticisms doesn't make them nut jobs
Julissia Jones I noticed you didn’t take issue with me calling them woke. I don’t think all the people criticizing her are but jobs. But some are, based on their comments. At the very least they are far less rational and emotionally stable than UV herself. UV wasn’t surprised that people disagreed with her. She was surprised that so many list their shit. Perhaps you’d prefer the term “emotionally unstable.”
I just wanted to applaud all the people out there trying to help UV understand. Personally, I have learned a lot from the comments and I feel supported as a black woman by this community. I think the comments are more helpful for people that view her videos and need a reeducation from the 'Karen' nonsense she's spewing.
Sounds like your only happy about 'right' opinion being stated and you want her to be educated as such, but you say help understand as if there is a choice for her to engage in discourse in order to her to reach this truth, this is indoctrination which is not helping someone understand
'Reeducation' ie. Indoctrination/brainwashing.
Rational Media Are you going to address her racism? If it helps, I’ll take off the word Karen. How about I just call her racist?
R g I wasn’t talking to her. And yes, I am happy when someone is right
Ellie I sure, why not. You can define words any way you’d like. My one year does it all the time.
In principle, I agree that vegans are under no more obligation than anyone else to speak on any issue. But once again, many of your takes on this are rough to listen to. It seems like your are oversimplifying points and ignoring nuance to maintain that you are "right" versus really trying to understand why your words are eliciting this type of response.
The way you talk about expertise is particularly frustrating. I am a geneticist, have a PhD from a well respected program in my field, primarily work with large data sets, and I am doing pretty well for myself as a career scientist. I can reasonably be called an expert. When it comes to experts, there are many opportunities for personal biases to impact outcomes in terms of what data we chose to collect and focus on, what questions we ask, and how we interpret the "answers". This is why getting to the "truth" is such a lengthy and contentious process even in the hard sciences. In that sense, it seems perfectly logical to me to say that when dealing with complex social issues involving race, it is incredibly valuable to have prominent voices from marginalized groups to help guide the process. I literally can't imagine any empiricist seeing this statement and thinking "no, suggesting that makes you racist".
To be more concrete, we have a long history of all white groups misinterpreting data to support ideas and policies that actively harmed members of marginalized groups in my field. Take a look at the history of eugenics in the USA if you want examples. Generally speaking, these people weren't villains making up data to support nefarious agendas. They were people with deeply rooted biases who looked at empirical data and made what time has shown to be incorrect and harmful conclusions. Is it really so absurd to imagine that this could happen today in the context we are talking about here? Or that we could curb some of this by being intentional when it comes to inclusivity in the scientific process?
While we do our best to be objective, experts and scientists aren't machines. Ignoring this reality is insane. History has literally given us data on why this is a bad idea, which makes your insistence on effectively going with the "color blind" argument here particularly frustrating. Maybe take a moment to consider that you might have some biases your are brining to the table as far as this all goes? At the very least, it would be great if you didn't throw out "experts!" and "science!" as a shields against criticism. If you genuinely believe that race and personally history don't have the potential to impact how experts go about their work, then build an actual case for that idea. I suspect the data might lead you in a different direction if you actually put some time into the endeavor.
Edit: And just so it's clear, the ideas I am expressing here aren't particularly controversial in academic circles. In the era of "big data", many of us recognize the importance of examining our biases given that it is easier than ever to tell stories now. The field of metascience is basically devoted to this, and has seen a great deal of growth in recent years. A great deal of effort has also been put into examining the role of implicit racial and gender bias in stem (spoilers: evidence suggests it exists).
I also wouldn't want anyone to view what I am saying as anti-science. As a scientist, I of course believe in the efficacy of the scientific method. The process has been proven to work time and time again. However, while I believe the scientific method is as close to perfect as something can be, scientists are not and our personal biases absolutely have the potential to hinder the process when ignored.
Very well said!
Incredible
Are you seriously talking about animal crossing after such a serious issue? so incredibly tone deaf.
I thought so too
Does she not usually do this same thing after other serious videos?
Your willfulness in remaining uneducated on the matter has given me the closure I needed with this channel. I honestly wasn't even expecting an apology. I was expecting that you, a normally logical and reasonable person, would take the time to seriously take in the criticism, do some research, and acknowledge where you were wrong and where you were right. But instead you've chosen to double down. How disappointing. And what's ridiculous is that as much as you complain and whine about people being mean to you, the previous video's comments were probably the most respectful (and well versed, truly the intellect was impressive) expression of disagreement I've ever seen on UA-cam
"I believe that black people deserve to live, but not enough to talk about it to the hundreds of thousands of people who listen to me." That's literally what you sound like. Take the note, sis.
Not her taking about her Twitter as if the vast majority of her audience are over there. Funny how she talks about 'doing more than a post' but uses retweets on her smaller platform as evidence, and actively causes harm by using BLM as a segue to talk about her (well documented by now!) issues on intersectionalism. She's so full of shit, I can't stand her at all.
This is the most stupid argument I have ever heard. There thousand of groups being discriminated,killed and simply not allowed to live in the world. Do you post about all of them? If not then you are racist with your logic. Do you post everyday about kids in africa and Asia starving to death? If not then you are ignorant,racist and hateful person with your logic. Do you post about human trafficking, slavery? Do you post about Christians being decapitated in Muslim majority countries? Do you post about Christians and Muslims being discriminated and killed in China? Do you post about the local tribes being kicked from their forests? Do you post about White South African farmers being murdered in the most gruesome ways? Do you post about women forced into prostitution? Do you even post about the Asian discrimination in your own country because of covid? If you don't post for even a single one of these then you are a Hypocrite. Have a nice day
Biggest shock of this whole video was that she was using "stop being racist" to people who were pro black leadership. AKA, using reverse racism (or racism towards white people) as an argument. Yikes.
Oh christ, yeah "using racism against " is racist lydia
If not for the Black Panthers, the 504 Sit In in 1977 prob would have been unsuccessful and People with Disablities would have no rights.
one right won was universal design, which btw helps bikers and strollers. : )
100% fake news.
or the LGTQ+ people
Hell yes! I am disabled and I really dig the Black Panthers. When discussing gun rights I love using the picture of Huey Newton with a shotgun standing in front of a window that says "Black Panther Party for Self Defense".
*citation needed
As someone who unfortunately has spent a lot of time in rooms with specialists, you should know that the modern understanding for doctors is that there are always “two experts in the room”, their words. The reason for this is that experiencing your condition absolutely does give you a form of insight inaccessible to empirical evidence. That’s what doctors believe and it’s why the doctor has to listen to the patient and work with them.
Experts of any race can and should provide empirical evidence and advice to an effected group, but it’s the people experiencing the issue who need to make the final decision.
You should know also that “defund the police” doesn’t mean getting rid of them or cutting salaries and training. It’s a confusing slogan, but the actual proposals behind it come from academia, not the BLM movement.
Defund the police does mean get rid of them tho 💀
Kristin no, defund the police doesnt mean get rid of them. It might be a future goal, but really it means reducing the police force and shifting a lot of their budget to different areas that would actually benefit the community.
Look, nobody should have to say this; it should be really obvious. And I regret having to point this out. But, in a free society, where ideas are debated, words matter. Say what you mean, mean what you say. If your slogan says something different than what you mean, it’s not the right slogan. So when resources don’t get reallocated because not enough people got onboard with “defunding the police,” you’ll only have yourselves to blame. Preview; the take away will be, “Next time let’s pick a slogan that accurately describes what we want.”
sivacrom do you have a slogan to recommend?
B Rhymes Yeah, “demilitarize the police.” Misnomers have no common place in society, so saying “defund the police” completely detracts from the sentiment, and thus the message is lost in translation. The phrase shouldn’t even hint at defunding public resources, it should hit at reallocating wealth distribution. Not taking away from a privilege that many communities benefit from in the name of local security.
Sis you really didn’t have to do two whole vids of this. Since you’re knowledgeable about food you could have talked about how Black people disproportionately don’t have access to healthy food and/or live in food deserts and why that is / solutions being researched. Maybe drop a link to some petitions. But instead you chose to spend 2 videos defending why you don’t have to. Side note, racism against white people in the USA does not exist , for that to happen the other race would need to hold societal power above the whites. What you are describing is prejudice.
The actual definition of the word “racist” states nothing about societal power. Racist: a person who shows or feels discrimination or prejudice toward another race or who believes that a particular race is superior to another. Racism against white people in the USA can certainly exist. Just because white people “hold societal power” doesn’t mean they can’t be identified as an inferior race by another race.
@@brendandalton7879The full definition of racism encompasses the fact that a group is not only subjugated by race, but they are also the minority and don't hold the power. You can't be racist against a white person. Reverse racism doesn't exist. Period.
Your point on racism doesn't make sense at all.
Swayze,
I really like your content on veganism. All the careful research and well thought out discussions on veganism and related issues is what made you my favorite vegan UA-camr.
However, I am beyond disappointed with your last two videos on BLM. For someone who normally conducts such careful research, you've refused to educate yourself further on systemic racism and white privilege even when begged to do so by your audience. Instead you dig your heels in and continue to reiterate your previous points while admitting you know very little on the topic you're speaking about. It's not about your original, main point (which btw I partly agree, people shouldn't be bullied into showing their support for BLM on social media, but at a time like this, they should feel COMPELLED to at least make a quick note about it on their platform if they have one and learn more about the issues on a personal level-- it's important that white people acknowledge their unintentional, inevitable role in the oppression of POC and take action against it. EVERYONE should MAKE time to do these things, not just non-activist people who "have the time").
What I'm most upset about is your refusal to educate yourself when called out for ignorant claims and a clear lack of understanding about these issues. Your videos on veganism are great, but I feel saddened, frustrated, and disappointed by your recent videos, particularly your refusal to educate yourself.
By refusing to educate yourself on how you, as a white person, harm the black community by holding the beliefs and stances you've expressed in your videos, you are absolutely a part of the problem, despite how well intentioned you might be.
I don't believe in cancel culture, but I'm so upset and conflicted about supporting your content right now. I'm no longer a patron or a subscriber. I'd love to see you come back with a fresh take on these videos after having done some more research. Please, educate yourself. Do better.
27:09 yes, *obviously* you should not be assuming any of your commenters are accurately representing the movement, so you should do your own research, learn from some *experts* and get back to us, rather than relying on your viewers to educate you when you're being tone-deaf
Maybe "it doesn't make you bigoted or apathetic to withhold support", it just makes you privileged and entitled.
Or you don't support them.
There is so much nuance in people because of their unique experiences and it would be arrogant to generalize them, because you just don't now them
I don't understand why people are disappointed, she supports BLM. Not knowing, understanding, or supporting every nuance of a movement is understandable. People have limited bandwidth on all of the issues they can fight for and fully understand.
How the heck does this video end with an animal crossing ramble? I mean.. what??
It seemed totally tone deaf, she could have ended the video with links to Vegan BLM causes....but this was so bizarre I had to leave.
She’s out of it. Completely. Check her recent video.
My thoughts exactly. It really really looks like she's doing everything in her power to make sure the BLM cause is diminished and belittled.
Idk man, I guess you're just not there yet. Your attitude and tone about this is so disheartening. Ending with a rant about Animal Crossing? This shit is way more serious than you're making it. Thoughts as I unsubscribe:
1. Finding solutions to racism should be LEAD by BIPOC professionals/experts with the SUPPORT of white professionals/experts (given they are TRUE allies of the black community) and the help of ALL people who are committed to making change. It would be wrong (not racist) to say that white people can't be PART of the movement but we should all agree that white people shouldn't LEAD the movement.
2. Possibly an unpopular opinion: If you are a white person (like me) and don't WANT to speak up about this, even if it is to admit that you still have a lot of learning to do, you might be part of the problem.
Things that you, Swayze, might benefit from looking into: definition/importance of black spaces, code switching, microaggressions, reverse racism (myth), history of racism in the US, etc.
It honestly is so strange the lack of research you did for this video compared to others on your channel. Like you said, some topics deserve more careful consideration than others; and since you decided to make the video, you should've gave it that consideration.
I just came back to the video to look at the comments again. I used to love her content and would just binge watch older videos while doing housework or meal prep. I could kinda ignore her take on intersectionality (those videos have been removed now) but this went too far. It watching her leaves a really bitter taste in my mouth. It just does not fit her "brand" to behave so bigheaded... Even her videos on UA-cam drama (James Charles and the like) were better researched.
Social science is still science. You waxed poetic about data while providing nothing when there are countless peer reviewed studies talking about social issues and impact.
Might want to take your job more seriously next time.
Roséquarkz thank you for this!!!!
Roséquarkz yes!!!! Social science is science. I’m shocked that she didn’t even provide data like she normally does. Ugh sadness because I love her videos :(.
Yes. This video was such a contrast to the well-researched one about trans issues she made in response to Stef Sanjati. Why the lack of research in this one?
My first video that I saw and that got me subscribed was last year when UV went through that "anyone can be vegan" video (the title of UV video was "This is What Vegan Privelege Looks Like") and showed such an emapthy and understanding toward the effects of poverty, exclusion and the blinders that class privelege can create. It was such a great video. This is like the opposite.
Agreed!! I loved that vid. Why isn't she creating bomb content like that but about white privilege Etc? I couldn't finish her first blm video and I can't finish this one either. It's making me consider unsubscribing. I want to see if she actually listens to her subscribers....or continues to be defensive
Lydia R i would love to see her talk about racism in the vegan community online, how black creators are often overlooked, etc, but no. we got this mess instead.
@@leviathanesque Exactly!
It seems like people are either willfully misinterpreting the silence as violence.... it is legitimately a simplified version of Desmond tutu statement about if you choose neutrality in instance of oppression you have chosen the side of the oppressor. It is not just asking people to be vocal publicly, but also in your private spaces. To call out family and friends that engage in racist, or sexist actions. On another level consider that the so called “bad apples” get away with shit because the “good” officer stay silent. So yes silence is violence, when you choose to not speak up or step up in whatever way you are able to, your silence becomes passive support to those engaging in violence.
Idk about you but I experienced violence quite differently. Now this is rally just my emotional response and not much argument other than you are watering down the force continuum. People seem to be more shielded from violence (physical) than ever before and that's great. In my personal experience being cussed out or yelled at is one thing but physical violence is a hole new category. Being violent towards others brings so much with it and can leave deep scars that honestly its a bit childish to compare to people who are not doing anything.
Otto Otto I have face both physical and Rhetorical racist violence.... this is not to say one is worse than the other. It is in fact to say that the refusal to speak up in these situations leads people to be able to engage in physical violence. If racist rhetoric is never challenged and you choose to be quiet with people engage then you remove yourself for possibly being the voice that stops someone for engaging in physical violence. For example the people who sat there and knew their relatives were going to lynch someone became guilty of Negligence prior to the body being hung.... it is from the moment that people start speaking of this violence that is the problem. The Rwandan genocide didn’t just start with killing, it started with silence and no challenges to those how began to dehumanize people. Physical violence is the last train stop of the track of violence... we must always speak up and out with violent rhetoric is spewed.
Rhetorical ( hate speech) can leave just as deep scars as physical violence. I am not saying that one is worse than the other.... in fact I consider them of equal damage in different ways. But i would like people to consider that silence is violence is talking of a willingness to not confront racism in your everyday life to not correct family or friends when the engage in racist or dehumanizing language because that is what leads to people engaging in or accepting physical violence.
@@karafale What happened to silence is compliance? That sounds to me like what you are arguing for. I give you that it doesn't rhyme as well, but it is much more accurate and less accusatory. I personally dont like how you equate physical violence and hate speech, but I am the last person to tell how to express yourself. In your example you mentioned the families of the people behind lynchings and I am not sure how how much this sticks. I imagine that they probably were vocal supporters of racism or they themselfs were silenced. Being silenced doesnt make you an accomplice it makes you a victim. My point being, if you dont know better dont accuse people of the worst.
Hey Swayze, I’m sorry that addiction has taken people close to you and caused you to suffer. That is truly awful. But... I’m not sure that addiction or cancer are the best examples to help think through why people want to include black people in decision making regarding stoping police violence and racism (conscious and subconscious) generally. Recognizing that we can all find an example that fits our own narrative... I think a closer comparison to make would be to look at another identity that is marginalized in our society. For example, I believe that a person who uses a wheelchair should be included in discussions on how best to build accessible buildings. As a person who doesn’t use a wheelchair, I probably wouldn’t be able to think of all the things that aren’t accessible to someone who does. Of course, this doesn’t mean that a wheelchair user who has no other building credentials should be made the architect. But just because the architect has been to school to design buildings doesn’t mean they are equipped to think through the best way to make this building wheelchair accessible. In a similar vein, I don’t know if it is enough to rely on the ‘science’ that is already present, as we need to recognize who is doing this science and what has been missed/still lacking in evidence. Of course psychologists and economists are essential to solving these problems. I don’t think anyone is arguing that, and if they are idk what to say. What I think is that including the people who experience this violence on a physical, emotional, mental level in these discussions, as well as being involved in deciding if a given solution will actually have a positive impact on their community, gives us the best chance as a society to end violence against black folx.
I rewatched the video a second time and here is another thought I had... I think potentially pushing to include black ppl in the leadership of this movement is in itself an attempt to change the system (of institutionalized racism). What I mean is that black folks are disproportionately not in leadership positions and this both contributes to and is a symptom of systematic racism. (To be clear I have come to this video with an open mind to what you have to say)
@@rebeccaflack8889 In response to both of your comments, I just want to say you make so much sense and this is a really good point that I think Swayze - and I hope you're reading this - can latch onto and incorporate into her logic regarding this. It's really helpful for me too because while I get what Swayze is saying, I realize I wasn't allowing myself the full picture which would lead me to my most critically-formed conclusion. Your comment helped me get there. Thank you.
that is a really well thought out analogy!
@@rebeccaflack8889 we're also forgetting the fact that there are many black experts in the fields necessary to build policies and reforms and that giving those roles to others would be similar to casting a white person to play a black person's part in a film.
Your explanation was great. It's such an easy to understand point and I don't get why Swayze 1) don't understand it, 2) don't accept that people are criticising her because she misread an entire situation and 3) refuses to answer every single amazing comment like.your explaining point by point what she claims "we didn't understand of her logic"
25:18 "experience is no substitute for a phd" is true but i think you're missing the point. you can have biases or blindspots and race and experience definitely comes in to play then. also who is talking about credentials here? people are saying listen to black people when they talk about what police violence has done to their community over people who have not experienced it. that is literally like saying listen to cancer patients when they talk about what cancer did to their body over people who have not had cancer. you're also talking to a group of people who are very, very, very suspicious of authority, with good reason, and your tone is not helping (just like you pointed out in your original video of the girl using blm to push her own agenda).
But for instance in the UK some BLM activists in interviews have complained about black people being killed in the UK every day, which is a huge exaggeration. 13 have died in police custody in the last 10 years, and the police shoot dead about 3 people a year, including all races. So their own reported experience can be way off the mark, by two orders of magnitude.
@@PhilosophyLines can you give me a link to this interview? are they saying black people are being killed every day or black people are being killed by police every day? pretty big distinction.
Honestly I resent that she seems to think we can't have both. That we're really so dumb that we'd send some nobody off the side of the street to organize and speak for a movement 🙄
@@justcallmeteacup4711 hey you need a phd to lead a liberation movement everyone knows that 🙄 seriously tho the bad takes in this video really are something else.
I had to stop just after the 10 minute mark because I cannot tell if you are really struggling that much to understand what those comments are saying. There is an endless history of black people trying to speak from their experiences to have white peoples speak over them, tell them they don’t understand their own lives, drown them out or force them into silence. No one is saying white people aren’t allowed to have their own opinions on this! No one is saying you can only ever parrot what black people say. No one is saying you have to be silent forever. But after literal centuries of trying to hog all the microphones there are, right now it is time to let black people have the microphone and speak on this issue. I really don’t understand how hard this is to understand?
2nd I think you underestimate how many people are not making a distinction between Black Lives Matter specific activist organizations, Black Lives Matter meaning anyone who wants to protest the killing of black people, or black lives matter as in ‘the lives of people who are black matter.’ When people say “I support Black Lives Matter” or “everyone should support Black Lives Matter”, it could mean any of the above or some combination of all 3. It is messy but unfortunately the statement “police should stop killing black people” is waaaaaay more controversial than it should be so I understand people wanting others to express public support, whether or not you agree with all the methods/demands of the organizations under the BLM umbrella.
3rd, this country was literally built on indigenous genocide and black slavery. America’s society is at the base white supremacy. The way whites in this country can live is built on black death. This is the backdrop behind “white silence is violence.” It’s not that staying silent means you consciously condone police brutality. But reaping the benefits of a system that is in part held up by police violence against black people and in part has police violence against black people as a natural output .... I’m not sure what else you would call “silently benefiting from violence.” And feeling some shame is the least we white people should do.
This is beautifully written and exactly what she won't listen to.
Exactly this.
Thank you for taking the time to write this out. I hope that she reads it and takes some time to reflect.
So you want white people to feel shame for what their ancestors did?
I agree with everything, but the first paragraph said exactly what I was thinking. I feel she is just one more white person who doesn't want to relinquish this power to speak on whatever she wants whenever she wants to and have people listen to her. It's so entitled, and it's something all of us, as white people, can do if we are not aware of our privilege and of our duty to do something about race inequality. Honestly, I'm just sad, but I had to unsubscribe.
Since you're so fixated on "experts" validating people's lived experiences, you should probably know that Kimberlé Crenshaw, the Black woman who originally named and defined intersectionality, is a civil rights lawyer with a J.D. from Harvard Law School, among other degrees. That's "Juris Doctor" or "Doctor of Jurisprudence." Perhaps you should look up her work to see what intersectionality is, since you think that only degrees and data matter. As if there aren't reams of data supporting what activists have been saying about anti-Black racism and police violence targeting Black communities and other communities of color. You cherry picked a completely fallacious understanding of intersectionality and spent a good portion of your video pummeling that fallacious understanding, and never coming within a football field's length of accurately describing what it is.
Also, Peter Singer has advocated that it would be ethical to murder disabled infants so as to "replace" them (his word) with "healthy" infants. He claimed that intellectually disabled people lack a desire to "not die" which he also attributes to animals. I can't imagine under any circumstance I'd invoke that man as anything but an advocate for eugenics. But since you advocated for eugenics in your video about a mother falsely claiming to cure autism last year while misrepresenting the neurodiversity movement on every possible level, I'm not surprised you'd also misrepresent Black Lives Matter, the protests, and intersectionality just as much now. This was a miserably awful video and I feel sympathy for anyone else who sat through it to adequately critique your gish gallop.
Also, ending your video complaining that activists are too mean to you for not taking a position on police brutality with a cheery bit about Animal Crossing is extremely tone deaf.
I guess you missed her video on where she basically said she was for eugenics when she was talking about autism. I missed it but found some crazy response stuff to that in trying to see what people were saying about the blm video. Unfortunately just confirms my decision to unfollow.
Where in the video does she say that experts need to validate the lived experiences of black people? All I heard her say was that experts don't need to be black in order to be effective at solving the problems faced by the black community. If you care about a cause, you should want as many of the most competent experts in the field working on all these problems.
I think the police should stop murdering black people. I think we should rethink the way we do law enforcement in this country. I think I can think these things without doing hours of research and studying...
I find this video unhelpful and frustrating. It sucks to feel bullied into speaking up. It sucks not knowing what to say because you’re uncomfortable or uninformed. But never forget: the choice to say silent is a privilege. The choice to compartmentalize and justify that silence with logic or reasons is a privilege. The silent don’t need us to defend them. Their discomfort is a tiny fraction compared to the discomfort of hundreds of years of oppression.
Stop sticking up for people who don’t need it. Stop defending people who don’t need a movement.
Oof. I completely understood what you said in the last video, and I was fully prepared to let this go as a minor difference in opinions. However, that little comment around 10:50 about "actually you're racist against white people!" Tells me that you're not just wrong about this one thing, but racism is something you're completely uninformed about. Got it.
Right? Like I’m positive that she would say that an anti-choice man has no place in dictating what a woman should do with her body. What’s the difference when black people want a place where a white person cant interject? I’m white and I can accept that I will never understand a lot of the hardship and that sometimes I’m just not entitled to an opinion because I will never understand enough. I hope that makes sense
exactly. when she said that I knew all bets were off lol
I remember a couple of years ago when I was quoting the definition of racism at people and talking about “racism toward white people”. Ouch. Don’t worry, I am thoroughly and rightfully ashamed by my past self. I can only hope she finds the time and desire to educate herself on the issue and grow. She’s not racist, like I wasn’t racist a few years back. But you don’t have to hate black people to sprout racist talking points without even knowing it and being damaging and too lost in your own privilege without even wanting to realise it... I really hope she shallows the pride she definitely appears to be showing and grows with time, I really do.
@@DownfallxInsides racism toward white people is a thing and anyone telling you otherwise isn't clear on what racism is.
@@lalabox777 Nope. You can be biased or prejudice against white people, or even discriminate against one, but racism is deeper than that. Racism is a system, it has a history.
As a black vegan I’m asking you please don’t apologize. These people are angry and their anger is being taken advantage of and being born in America is literally a privilege!!!
Yo, so Jack of all trades, master of none is only half of that quote. It's "Jack of all trades, master of none, often better than master of none." Meaning a person with widespread but not master knowledge is usually more knowledgeable than someone who isn't a master. Most people aren't masters, most people aren't Jacks. Jack of all trades is clearly a good thing
I think you meant to write "often better than master of one" - ie. it's better to have a general knowledge of many things than have ultimate knowledge of only one thing.
@@bethanmae That makes a lot more sense :)
@@bethanmae did I?? I think you're right! And that makes even sense! Jack's are better than masters and non masters!!!
... so what? :D
this hurts my heart. as someone who takes so much time to research and be informed on MANY topics hearing you blatantly say that you havent done your research, and hearing you speak in a way that clearly shows you are speaking on opinion rather than fact which you rarely do is just so telling of how little you truly care for this movement.
Silence IS violence. Justifying not talking about it because you dont know about it is so.. strange(?) to hear from you specifically. Please dissect your words and thoughts. You always advocate for doing your research, why is now the time to willfully be left in the dark??
I get that some of what she has said is wrong and not researched but it's not like all of her tweets were inaccurate. She said only some were. (I haven't look at them so I dont know which ones.) Plus I dont believe that because you are silent on social media about BLM that it is violence. Since that's what she was referring to. I haven't posted anything and I dont think I will. But I have discussions with people in person. I think that is were you can make real change. 'Silence is violence' from what I've read on several sites and heard from other people is most effective in person. Like the phrase "if you see something say something." I do think she did come off as a little tone deaf in her last video and this one. But to say she hasn't done any research at all is wrong.