SPARTANS VS SPACE MARINES | Warhammer Versus Halo
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- Опубліковано 16 жов 2024
- Today on the we launch our first episode of Warhammer VS, this time pitting the Spartan II's of Halo against the Space Marines of 40k!
Colin (@pancreasnowork9939) shall be championing the Spartans whilst Andy (@TheRemembrancer) shall defend the honour of the Astartes of the Imperium.
Who will win in this debate between Mjolnir and Ceramite?
#halo #spacemarines #warhammer40k #warhammer #warhammer40k #40k
EDITED BY: Hal (@TheAmberKing)
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Welcome to Lorecrimes! The collaboration channel of:
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@Deadlifts for the Dark Gods
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@PancreasNoWork
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@The Remembrancer
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Master Chief vs Cato Sicarius
let's see which plot armor is stronger
This depends on entirely who is in control of this scenario 343 or gw
Master cheif wins.
Master chief can take on any single space marine.
Throw 2 at him then he dies.
Mustard Chef has impressive track record, but he did not duel a shard of C'tan
That entirely depends on if he scales to abbadon or not and if we take into account him taking on a transcend C'tan shard. Which for the latter thing I'm willing to throw into the trash
@@johnkelleh9448 no shot. Even an unnamed line marine from ultramar could curb stomp even the chief. Power swords are a motherfucker.
I see people shitting on Andys defense but you gotta realize how much smaller and better organized the Halo universe is. Trying to find any rock solid accurate stats for Space Marines is like trying to not dick ride Eldar when your name is Colin.
That’s why I hate the space marines so much there no rock solid lore like do they have a reaction time of 5 milliseconds or 15
@@MasterTopHatYou can argue it is in the microsecond range due to some feats.
@@voidtempering8700 yah we all know that but for Spartans it’s been out right said set in stone that the spartan reaction time is 5 milseconds
@@voidtempering8700yeah maybe for a Captain space marine lol. Not a common Battle brother
@@minimummass1428 Technically speaking, they all have the same augmentations. You can argue there are differences narratively, but anything a captain can do a regular marine should also be able to do.
Spartans can do one thing space marines can't: Crunches. That fused ribbcage wouldn't be flexible enough!
Technically not fused, just had ceramic like plates grafted onto the ribs to make internal plate armor. Still would screw with flexibility and even be detrimental to breathing as well (which is why a 3rd lung is needed).
also they CAN SMASH.....its a easy win
@@doragonzxa Spartan couldn’t even beat a sister of battle 😂
but they can beat them in bed.... Canonicly Sisters and spartans can smash so it could happen@@argeltalthecustodiankiller6552
@@argeltalthecustodiankiller6552 such a compelling argument, you said it so it must be true lol
Space Marine- commits murder
Next day in court
Judge "can you describe the man who did this"
Witness "he was girthy your honour"
As a follow up, can we please get "girthy your honour" on a t-shirt
In the Spartan's favor: Andy brought up Halo's gameplay a lot, but doing the same for 40k doesn't look too good for the Marines -- an unaugmented human punches through power armor 20% of the time, and that Iron Halo fails 50% of the time.
Similarly, that the Spartan's best tech is stolen from the Covenant is actually a strength -- they're practical and willing to adapt enemy equipment. Space Marines are blinded by zealotry, never advancing or improving.
"Thats a nice Iron Halo you got there...YOINK."
@@KillerOrcaEvery Inquistor within 1000 light years: “HERESY”
I imagine in the tabletop, the space marine has already been damaged and wounded a Fxck tonne.
@@Sonof_DRN2004lmao if that was the case then literally every single unit in the game is started as wounded. Retarded take
That last part isn't true unless we're talking about the black templars for example. Space Marines in general are actually one of the more sane factions in the Imperium.
I can sit comfortably in my glass house knowing Kirby will always win.
Glass kirby's house is made nercoderimus
Kirby is great and all but bobobo is the most powerful character ever created period. Not a joke or meme this is an actual fact. Saitama goku superman could 3v1 bobobo and lose without a sweat drop or a single hair dropped from bobobo
@@seven6citydon patch and bobobo solo everyone/thing
i prefer Spartan's because half of all spartan's did in fact not betray humanity unlike other super soldiers.
Thats because most of them died before they got the option to.
@@_NutcasE_they wouldn’t betray humanity since Master Chief and the other Spartans knew they were kidnapped children and train to be super soldier and instead of brooding over it they focus on getting the job done in trying to make unethical situation into a good thing for humanity constantly sacrificing their lives in taking on dangerous missions
@@llamawearingsombrero6764 it wasnt a legitimate argument for spartan treachery. It was a joke on how quickly almost all of them died.
i love spartans, it would also be a great fight though i think either a they would kill eachother off or the marine would kill the spartan
This MF: "Actually I prefer halo because its the only thing I can understand. Bad things happened in warhammer so I prefer mestur chef cuz he on da soder"
Despite being *theoretically* on his side for a 1v1 even if I like Spartans more as a fictional soldier, Andy's performance here was really really lackluster. He went for the smug pathos argument angle with nothing but vague gesturing at actual data from lore, and used gameplay arguments Colin was kind enough not to pounce on and use against him with tabletop/video game Astartes.
Yeah, while I agree a Space Marine would likely win (though I think it would be a lot closer than people would think) Andy absolutely lost the debate. He didn't argue his side well at all.
1vs1 : novels and lore Vulkan, Kharn, Abaddon, Gulliman, Magnus The Red, Angron, Mortarion, Kaldor Draigo, beat Masterchief easily.
@@THEREALZENFORCEehhh. It’s hard to say, since Chief with Cortana (or the Weapon now) practically has precognition with how much his reaction times are enhanced by an AI. Man was literally able to punch a rocket mid flight to deflect it away, on the first test run of having his new armor and an AI.
I imagine now, with 30+ years of experience it would be practically impossible to kill him in a 1 on 1 if he has an AI.
@@THEREALZENFORCE Primarchs are not Space Marines.
@THEREALZENFORCE you named five Primarchs in your list, four of which are functionally immortal. I don't know what you were trying to prove with that considering 95% of the 40k setting couldn't take them in a 1v1.
The problem with Space Marines is that *no-one* knows how strong they are, everyone has a different idea of just how strong a Space Marine is owing to their slew of lore inconsistencies and inconsistencies between normal Space Marines and the dreaded ‘named’ characters. They’re so hyped that my brain subconsciously makes them weaker.
It’s pretty much however strong a Writer wants them to be, and that’s why I say 20 Chaos Warriors could beat a Space Marine in melee, because I wrote it that way.
Ask Colin about the time Calgar killed an Avatar of Khain. You know. Literally the Eldar God of War And Murder.
And then on the other side we've got Fire Warriors killing them with ease. Genestealers mangling Terminator plate...shits all over the place
@@KillerOrcaCalgar punched it really hard😭🤜
In range Fire Warriors can be a threat to Marines because of their insane accuracy and powerful guns plus them having numerical superiority
Genestealers can kill Terminators but it usually takes hundreds of them dying
Fire Warriors would curbstomp the Covenant and Spartans in range
I mean a single chaos warrior could handle a space marine like what. Space marines are Bretonnian Grail Knights in space and chaos space marines are simply chaos warriors in space.
Yes a chaos warrior could also handle a spartan as well, it just all depends on how blessed and how far along the path of chaos a chaos warrior is. I mean we have a grail knight slaughtering whole armies of green skins, a grail knight capable of decapitating a man by throwing a medieval kite shield captain America style, and grail knights routinely 1v1ing vampire lords and dragons.
Chaos warriors are usually just a step ahead of grail knights.
@@pyrrhusofepirus8491 they say 1 space marine can take on 100 orks
Colin wins. Not necessarily Spartans, but Colin
Definitely Colin, he seemed prepared for this
I don't know which is Colin. I haven't watched yet. Just a contrarian and you're so wrong. Did we even watch the same video?
@Deto masa he didn't win the comparison, but he won the debate
Also, Halo gets to be discussed for an extended period of time so big w for colin
@@ClubQRoundDeuxColin is the spartan lover, has his own channel, pancreasnowork
Spartans as well.
PancreasNoWork's point in round 3 was good but it would've been better if he started to play the Halo soundtrack just after it.
I actually started playing Engaged from Halo Reach at the start of his final argument
@@raygc1 there is no defeating it. Halo music > All of Warhammer.
Gorilla man vs Karl Franz
Have Collin just yell at himself for an hour
I love how making fun of Guilliman's name is a meme.
You know what would be a good and fair comparison? ODST vs Kasrkin
Yup
It'll still be kasrkin wholl win
@@lostkhan1728 yeah but they’re at least still mostly normal humans the most enhancements they get is increased endurance so they can use heavy weapons for long periods of time
@@riven5677 eh not just endurance that the kasrkin have. They have way advanced armor and weaponry like they have the advanced version/better version of the las gun which is called the hot shot/ hell shot las guns which can actually melt/ pierce and chip away spacemarine armor
@@lostkhan1728 well yeah I’m just trying to refer to the human factor you know
I’m personally going to have to side with Colin here for the simple fact that he explained his points. While Andy just threw points out there with no explanation and constantly relied on using Halos’s gameplay to discourage/debunk Colin’s points on LORE. What is ceramite armour, how tough is it? Never explained, Space Marines are tougher why? Because Andy said so cause their… taller and girthy? Then if Andy is so keen on using gameplay why don’t we mention the theoretical’s of guardsman being able to kill a Space marine with knives on tabletop? Or any other examples that can be drawn like that, and it becomes pretty clear that arguments from gameplay are actually really poor arguments. Overall good video and I hope to see more.
There are theoreticals and practicals
I agree. Like by Andy's own logic then a Space Marine in full power armor is only as strong as a shirtless dude from Catachan. Since gameplay says so
@@thewerdna Your information is incorrect, Catachans no longer receive a bonus to Strength from charging but instead receive two melee hits on a 6.
And do you happen to own the Halo: Ground Combat wargame? If not it's rather disingenuous to compare genres with such radically different metrics.
But funny enough in melee it takes over 36 guardsmen to secure 2 wounds against a Space Marine in a single turn. Now assuming they were on average 60kg, probably closer to 90kg with full war gear using Only War rpg as a basis for weight, that's over two to three tons of men wrestling one astartes to the ground to stab him to death. Conversely it takes 3.5 astartes to kill a single guardsman a turn in melee, or half that if they charged.
Now if we use the Only War rpg as a comparison, the average human has 30s in all their stats and 10 wounds, while the average astartes has 40s with effectively 60 Strength and Toughness and 20 wounds. While Guard Flak provides 4 Armor Points all over, while Astartes Power Armor provides 8 points or 10 on the chest. While a Knife deals 1d10/2+SB in damage, or 8 max for a human.
So, without Righteous Fury, which happens whenever you roll a 10 on a damage dice and guarantees either 1 damage or a critical wound, a guardsman has no chance to injure an astartes, because their 6 TB and 8-10 AP, for a whopping 14-16 Soak. Now if we give them a Mono Sword/Bayonet, effectively 1d10+SB -2 AP, they still require a Righteous Fury, but so long as it's not on the chest, they will get the critical wound in addition to the 1 damage they would otherwise do, which honestly doesn't do any immediate damage.
So, assuming the astartes isn't bothering to parry or dodge, or really fight back beyond not giving them any additional bonuses, +20 for All Out Attack and +20 for max Gang Up bonus. It'd take 12 Guardsmen, the maximum number of guardsman that can get into melee with the larger astartes, 36 rounds to guarantee a kill effectively knocking him down to -10 Wounds. Additionally, each round is 10 seconds so it'd take 6 whole minutes for 12 guardsmen to stab an astartes to death.
While using his bare fists, which are considered Natural Weapons that deal 1d10+SB, that same astartes wound need 7.5 rounds to kill a single guardsman on average assuming the same situation as above.
So yeah, astartes are tough, but they don't always have plot armor like Master Chief, and when they don't they are roughly only five to ten times more dangerous than the average human war fighter. Though in game Spartans are only twice as tough as your average Marine given their shield, and maybe twice again as dangerous in melee, though I can't honestly remember a single instance of Marine NPCs engaging in melee unarmed and I never bothered to melee in ODST because it was suicidal, which honestly puts them on par or slightly below astartes stats wise.
@@KageRyuu6 that’s a like from me, that’s the sh$$ I like to see.
Definitely Collin on this one! He came prepared with specific facts and information about the Spartans, Andy didn’t give very many specifics at all and went for the attacks instead!
To be fair gw numbers should always be taken with a mountain of salt. After all there are so many different writers and redcons over the years that any specifics might no longer be cannon.
@@LukasJampen idk its kinda hard for me to hold the most doubt for the hardest of facts which are numbers. i just usually go with the lowest number thats official
@@LukasJampendamn
Probably because giving any actual concrete data on a space marine is impossible
@@primary2630and Spartans aren't
Wiki states that Spartans can move at maximum 60kmh were as astartes can run at 80 to 100 kmph
Not to mention that Spartans shield is as durable as tissue paper because it takes who mag AK to bring it down
Wich makes sense because spartan use hit and run tactic with gymnastics
Colin: Facts & Logic
Andy: UwU Space Marines Ner Ner
Yea ngl as a 40k fan I feel kinda embarrassed given Andy relied on basically smashing named spartan characters than stating what a astartes can do
@@sobanred7509That’s kinda the thing with 40K fans lol.
More like biases facts and logic
Spartans for me are just abhumans with power armor witch isn't nothing new and they still lose to astartes
@@whiteeye3453 You’re blatantly wrong
@@minimummass1428 what I meant is that Spartans aren't that strong compared to abhumans
And their armor is equivalent to adeptus scions or scoutmarine armor
Spartan 4 biggest advantage is regular troops affordable
There is legitimate and palpable anger in colins voice, legitimate rage. Holy fucking shit, also rate my Spartan 2 OC Julian 107 he likes gungnir armor
Andy basically concided the match in round 2. Colin is explaining why Spartans kick ass and Andy had to fall back on why the Imperium is stronger than the UNSC
Ah, classic strawman.
10/10 this is glorious and exactly what I needed. Suggestions for another versus episode:
-titans vs battle tech or mech warrior,
-40k god emperor vs dune god emperor,
-assassinorum vs the various snakes from metal gear,
-Chaos Gods vs Cthulhu and the other Lovecraft mythos deities
-how scrappy life is in the Imperium vs the Combine Regime from Half Life
Xenomorphs vs Tyranids
Been re-reading Assassinorum: King maker and NGL it would be cool as hell seeing a Vindicare Assassin like Absolom Raithe fight Solid Snake.
@@willogsdon7092 I think space monsters or vajra would be better match ups. Xenomorphs are cooler genestealers.
Dude, the combine straight up win, at least imperial citizens have some semblance of stability in their life
@@willogsdon7092 every scenario whit tyranids will eventually end up with fusion, even though I do not know how would you eat a xenomorph
my one gripe with the astartes is that it's kind of hard to know their exact feat of strength speed etc. In the case of halo, you could actually make a fair estimate on how much a spartan can lift, run or any other feat because they do at least tell the audience something. Astartes is more like a vague guessing game.
Let's not forget about the World Bearer who was killed by a guy with a wooden Spear during the Great Crusade.
That’s fair strength is difficult but speed wise one book had a night lord jumped over a rail and decapitated someone 90 ish feet away in a human heart beat
True the games and books make it clear that anything above a jackal is equal or outclasses a Spartan.
While for space marines its kinda inconsistent at on moment one astartes can destroy an army then they get killed by a guardsmen tank squad . Or one can fight what's essentially a god then they get killed by trynid grunts
@@parkermaisterra8532 Or the UNSC Marine who Beat a Spartan in hand to hand fight.
Halo has always been more grounded, it's more realistic in terms of what Augmented humans could eventually become. That's why there's a clear powerscale as Astartes are not grounded in reality, hell it's a universe that has fucking Daemons. Astartes aren't even the strongest super soldier in 40k, the Custodes make space marines look like little children. So if you were to pit a non-named Custode against Master Chief, I'm sorry to tell you Master Chief is getting his booty clapped 10/10 times.
First off, Colin won. More because Andy was focused on pathos, rather than stats (which I would is harder on the 40k side, since it has a lot less hard numbers), but a victory nonetheless. However, I have a few gripes with Colin's argumentation that I will bring up here.
Plasma
The Covenant and the Imperium's plasma weapons seem to work entirely differently, so to assume that the Covenant's plasma weapons are equally strong is incorrect.
The Imperium's plasma tech clearly has the plasma stored within the gun (assumably with magnetic fields), which allows them to fire much larger amounts of plasma at once at the cost of a large safety loss.
Meanwhile, Covenant plasma tech appears to operate through ionising gases during the firing sequence, which limits the amount of gas that can be ionised at once but is much safer. This method is also how Tau pulse weapons operate, which are thus a closer comparison than Imperial plasma tech for power. I will concede that covenant plasma weapons are more powerful than Tau pulse weapons though.
Survival Rates
Survival Rates for the actual Augmentation process are 10%+ with the quality of geneseed they have in modern 40k.
~50% compared to 10%. Someone calculated Imperium plasma (non-overcharged) at around 5000C, and Covenant plasma is confirmed to be around 3000C. Weaker but comparable.
Colin made the better arguments. Andy missed the Salamander who survived the vaccum of space for 10'000 years, the practical comparison between armaments, and the sheer brutality the space marines bring to bear. 800lbs out of their armor with ceramite bones, and another 500-1000lbs of armor that strengthens them further. The ability to survive trauma is greater. The standard 7.62mm UNSC rifles are can kill a spartan in a magazine, and a sniper rifle can take them out in a shot. The sniper rifle the spartans use is probably equivalent to a bolter with kraken rounds(except the sniper shoots solid shot instead of explosives). Mono-knives and power weapons, vast arsenals of vehicles. Teleporters, gravity weapons, and a similar history to the spartans of surviving re-entry and planet fall. Not to mention their ceramite power armor dissapates heat. Colin definetly won the argument though.
Isn't the sniper rifle from Halo a .50Cal? Because in that case I heard that a Bolter is equivalent to a .75Cal so... one-tap those Halo Spartans BROTHERS!
Spartans also has rail gun one of the few weapon space marines hate and might fear greatly overall it depends on the chapter the Spartans are fighting if it ultra marines i say they have a good chance if anyone else i doubt
@@andreibarbu6029 Yeah but the bolter is actually closer to a .998 as GW describes it as firing soda cans and they've never been good at numbers. The only weapon Spartans have that may be able to even dent a space marine is the Spartan Lazer. Where as the standard bolt rifle would take down a spartans shield in 1 shot and then 1 tap them. So 2 shots if that a spartan is red mist. The only chance a Spartan is to stay at range, if they get in close for a melee it's GG.
.998 is the heavy bolter IIRC@@NastyStankyChicken
Erm acktually in halo fall of reach master chief tanks 50mm rounds to his energy shield and 30mm arounds to the titanium plating directly in mjolnir mark V 🤓🤓
I find the UNCS to be at possibly the dawn of a Golden age of Technology. If they can ever have a moment to not be facing extinction. They're just getting started.
Just to be clear count this comment for the Spartans
By the beginning of Halo 2 they go from just copying the personal shield generators the Covenant use to making their own, BETTER personal shield generators. The UNSC is capable of some truly astounding leaps in technology if they can just keep an R&D department running for more than fifteen minutes without getting glassed
@@screamingcactus1753not to mention how spartans can easily use any weapon they find, effectively removing the weaponry limitations an example being how they could grappleshot a lasgun right out of a guardsmans hands, realise it's better and ditch their AR.
@@blizzardgaming7070 Realistically speaking, the difference in size would make it very difficult for them to use normal human weapons, and driving a vehicle designed for a normal human would be next to impossible.
@@addisonwelsh Spartans are on average seven feet tall in armour so normal human sized weapons wouldn't be difficult to wield and even if the trigger guard was too small they could just rip it off. With the augments they have and the armour increasing their strength, bolters wouldn't be too challenging to use either.
In the Halo Wars RTS game you can give the Spartans the nuclear option. So it does appear in at least one video game.
40k loses because they nerf their own buffs into garbage, because a 4 year old is just making all of it up on the spot. Whatever you want their lore to be, at that moment, is canon.
I don’t even like halo and Colin clearly won, Andy didn’t even bring much evidence
Man this debate reminded me when my friends and I used to do the exact same thing about many pieces of fiction… This is a true nerd and cozy channel
Master chief vs doomguy 😂
Colin has demonstrated that he belongs in the Spacebattles VS forum, goddamn.
How do we know that he's not already there, lurking in the shadows? 🤔
No he doesn't
26:44 Bro did the Space Marine side just say the Spartans are from a dying civilization? Ironic
Yeah, but the imperium has been dying for many times longer than the unsc has existed.
"Spartans changed the fate of a world. Space Marines change the fate of the galaxy"
*Master Chief casually changing the fate of the universe by annihilating The Flood, changing the fate of a war the UNSC could never win and would be annihilated sooner, buying survival time by several decades in a 4-way war against the UNSC and free-for-all, turned into a 5-way war briefly. Then we have Noble 6; the fight for Reach was already lost and yet, Noble 6 fought against countless fleets and armies for several hours. Alone. On a planet in the process of being glassed by a technologically, industrially, massive superior foe. And these are only 2 spartans; 1 Mark II (Master Chief) and 1 Mark III (Noble 6), both fighting a guaranteed lost war. One spartan fought against the largest fleet and army the UNSC has ever seen with a guaranteed loss for hours on a planet invaded by PLASMA wielding troops and vehicles. Plasma in 40K canonically rips Space Marines apart. The same effect is in Halo, but Spartans just have better armour. The other Spartan fought against galactic threats and won in a losing war: wherever Master Chief goes, everything else loses*
Plus, we're only talking about the Spartan Mark II against Space Marines - who have like hundreds of different varieties. 1 suit variety against hundreds of different kinds of Space Marine varieties.
Spartans: 1
Space Marines: daddy issues
Oh, and let's not forget that the Spartans exist about 500 years into the future, while Space Marines exist around 40'000 years into the future, and yet the Imperium has just a little more of a technological advancement over the UNSC in warfare. Something that a universe called WARhammer should probably be a little better in in general. There: give the Imperium 100years and nothing will change. Give UNSC 100 years and they'll surpass the Imperium tech
The only people (humans) that changed "the fate of the galaxy" were the primarchs and Mary-Sue space marines retconning the rest of the 40k universe
Atriox wiped the floor with MAsterchief. Atriox is nothing in strength compared to Vulkan and Vulkan cannot die, he is a perpetual that keeps on ressurecting
Space Marines standard ammo is .75, Spartans in lore and game get killed by way smaller 762 and two shots of smaller .50 sniper rifles.
Space Marines and their enemies literally have magic which trumps any technological achievement.
. 50 cal magnums that's the pistol
@@THEREALZENFORCEAtriox is literally the Brute equivalent to a Spartan. He is bigger than normal, smarter, and wearing powered armor.
He also ambushed Chief, and beat him in a fight where Chief was unarmed. I guarantee you Atriox would murder an unarmed Space Marine as well. His Gravity Hammer would turn their insides to liquid inside their armor lmao
@@RatsFunHouse101 nah space marines face bigger and smarter enemies than atriox on a daily basis and win , an ork warboss , is bigger than Atriox for sure , the Rynn's World novel there orks who are 10 ft tall in size and have the girth of a dreadnougth , space marines face those things in the daily , also space marines also face deamons and such ,atriox have nothing on those
"For the Emperor"
Weak energy
"Our Duty is to protect humanity, whatever the cost"
Strong energy
Both are equal to me, guarding humanity is serving the emperor, serving the emperor is guarding humanity!
I'll do you one better.
SUFFER NOT THE ALIEN TO LIVE.
@@venerablebrothergoriate5844 On that, we agree.
You opened the can of worms in this debate. Now it is a requirement to do a VS debate between the Flood and Tyrranids. Heroes were just compared, now the villains have to get their attention.
This is actually easy. If the flood are in the early stages, Nids win. If its late stage flood, the flood not only win but probably also wipe out the entire 40k galaxy.
Just remember the flood encountered in the games are extremely tiny outbreaks. The Flood at their height were so powerful they kicked the asses of a War in Heaven tier civilization and had infected reality itself to the point where they started yeeting the Forerunner equivalent of the Webway at planets. The Flood of the Forerunner-Flood war would absolutely stomp.
@@thewerdna I agree with most of what you are saying. But I was not merely talking about a full on fight but also with lore, capabilities, and a lot of other varieties.
Plus, even if it was a newly released outbreak of flood, the contagion would still spread in the air and (almost certainly) take over the Tyrranids as hosts since they only have two requirements being an intact nervous system and any form of biomass.
Flood
@@treykenley3499 Yeah no, the flood, like anything is similar to an oragnic weapon and the Tyranids will just evolve an immunity defense against the Flood. I mean fuck, they somehow evolved past Nurgles dieseas, that's *magic* disease, I don't think the flood has an answer to that...
One thing, its not like Space Marines just grow their new organs, most of them have to be surgically installed after being grown elsewhere.
A big flaw Andy had was using gameplay as evidence for Spartan's capabilities, when in the lore they are significantly tougher. Like, mosy standard UNSC weapons lore wise are entirely useless against a Spartan's armor, let alone shields. High high caliber and high explosive weapons are actually effective. Especially when the armor can also canonically take multiple hits from plasma weapons. You know, the things that are considered top tier weapons in 40k as well
Conversely, it would be boring to play Halo if it were lore accurate... Also I believe there was a part in a book where the Chief got hit with plasma over his leg and next day or a few days he just walks it off after resting a bit, I kinda got shocked that was even possible because I heard lore accurate plasma weaponry is like very lethal because it's literally plasma.
That was I believe in Shadow of Reach
"Significantly tougher" even in the lore Spartans die of several shoots of small 762 caliber and 2 shots of -50 caliber. Space Marines standard Bolster ammo is huge .75 caliber that would two shot any Spartan. And than there is the meta guns, lasers, energy weapons, magical bullets and magical melee weapons.
And Spartans have very small numbers compared to Space Marines.
And the few UNSC marines numbers are very small compared to the the Imperial forces billions of regular Imperial soldiers from over 1 million worlds of the Imperium of Man.
@THEREALZENFORCE uhhh, no. If you read any of the books that is absolutely incorrect. Most Spartans who died, died to plasma weapons, and only then surviving multiple hits.
There are many many many instances of the booms noting that only the highest calibar UNSC weapons can even get through an unshielded Spartan's armor. Which checks out since the Spartans were made to fight other humans and thus are incredibly OP at that
Of course this wouldn't be fun or at all balanced in terms of gameplay, so UNSC weapons are significantly more effective in the games and plasma weapons are quite nerfed from how strong they are supposed to be lore wise (like a plasma pistol would one shot a normal UNSC marine in the lore)
@@thewerdna 76 Spartans already died versus weak covenants weapons. 629 Spartans were killed in one event alone. Spartans 2 were killed off in Halo novels.
Any W40k plasma weapon, energy weapon, magical melee or magical bullet weapons easily kill Halo spartans. Ahrimans magical bolter bullets easily kill Spartans, so would any of his magical spells (Spartan armors do not protect against magic and magic is abundant in W40k).
Yknow, a lot of what was said about the settings for halo and warhammer doesn't reaaaally apply to a Spartan vs Astartes on an individual basis. But i think it does provide context for how the comparison pans out in a larger scale.
One thing that was overlooked is that the Imperium has been on a steady decline for 10,000 years. If you count the decline from the age of strife, about 15,000- 20,000 years. Humanity in the halo universe had been down and out for over 100,000 years before even re-achieving local space travel, let alone after contact with the covenant and later the flood. Space marines have *limited* access, but access all the same, to dark age weaponry and equipment. Humans in halo had nothing but sticks... TWO sticks and a rock... and they had to *shaaare* the rock!
While Halo might not have literal gods, it did have the Forerunners and precursors. Ancient humanity was only matched and bested by the forerunners who had been privy to precursor knowledge for *millions* of years. For those who dont know (which tbf is maybe 5 of you), the forerunners could bend and break the laws of physics nearly at will because of their tech. Basically an entire species of Rick Sanchez. And humanity was able to fight that AND the flood for over a millenia before defeat, because they were almost at the same level. No emperor, no psychic "you're a wizard, Harry" bullshit powers.
If one compares Humanity at large between the two fictions theres frankly no comparison to make. (At their peak I mean, had to clarify that)
I like how unhinged the space marines argument is, just like the lore
The entire point of the Mjolnir armour is its energy shielding. 3 bolt rounds and that shield is gone.
Now remember that you're standard run of the mill space marine armour doesn't have energy shielding. It's just mass and it still holds up to about 90% of what the 40K galaxy can throw at it.
You can add iron halos on top of that. For added defence.
One bolt round and the shield is gone. The Halo Sniper is a conventional bullet, a hypervelocity armor penetrating 14mm. The standard Godwyn pattern boltgun is 19mm, and fires a hypervelocity ROCKET PROPELLED, armor penetrating two-stage high explosive, and fires said rounds at 300rpm, as opposed to the roughly 70rpm of the halo sniper.
A spartan wouldn’t survive 2 bolt rounds.
In a straight gunfight, the Astartes wins in 0.2 seconds flat.
So if we’re using the games as a reference, can I use the fact that Captain Titus can die to lasguns, or a Gretchen with a butcher’s knife?
If you go by the books, MJOLNIR is more than capable of stopping 14.5mm APFSDS. Keep in mind that a sniper’s bullet velocity is going to be a *lot* faster than a bolter, and not only does said 14.5mm APFSDS round have to bypass the shields (which will disperse said bullet’s energy and slow it down as it penetrates the shield), but also penetrate solid slabs of Titanium-A1 armour plating that will be on a reflective angle to said round.
You’re absolutely correct in that boltguns are able to kill a Spartan, however using Halo’s SRS99 sniper as a reference point is not where you should start.
Where you should start is with the MLRS-2 Hydra, which essentially fires a round extremely similar to a bolter (rocket-propelled explosives).
@@theaussie8349 don’t be so sure about a bolter’s velocity. Remember, it is ROCKET ASSISTED. Not only do you have a big chunky round traveling fast as a bullet once it leaves the barrel, you have a micro-rocket behind it. A micro-rocket made with technology from about 25000 years past Halo. Someone did the math on it a while ago and came up with something like 27 kilojoules of kinetic energy delivered on impact, almost twice that of a 50bmg, and that’s BEFORE the round detonates.
@@theaussie8349 and saying that a lone Gretchin can kill a space marine is bunk, because the only way you’re gonna get killed by Gretchin is by standing there for ages while they slowly stab and poke at you. It takes metric fuckloads of individual attacks or being already extremely heavily damaged for it to happen like that. And as for the lasguns, again. It either takes a shitload of them, one of them belting off shot after shot for ages while you just stand there and let him slowly kill you, or you have to already be extremely seriously damaged.
A Halo Sniper kills Spartans in 2 shots. That’s not a shitload of attacks. That’s not ages of letting one of them hit the spartan over and over again. That’s not hitting the spartan with something like a rocket launcher and that opening him up to the sniper.
@@venerablebrothergoriate5844 using the games, then it’s an easy theoretical for me to use that a squad of guardsmen with combat knives can kill a space marine on the tabletop.
Also, this is assuming that said sniper can HIT the Spartans. Space marines and Spartans both have incredible speed and agility, so it’d be quite hard to suggest the average guardsman or UNSC marine could hit them with a sniper.
That being said, I’m simply debating the sniper aspect of the WH vs Halo argument. The bolter in of itself is a devastating weapon for both a Spartan and space marine.
I feel like the SM and Spartan’s weapons should have been brought up a little more.
Yeah would have been pretty cool especially since while Andy could have won that round it would have given the audience a chance to hear about the Spartan's more crazy weapons.
That's not the best comparison Spartans are not space Marines there's no such thing as a tactical Spartan squad or devastator Spartans Spartans kind of just use whatever they want and they typically get the best take fireteam Omega for example their primary weapons consists of a plasma cannon a rail gun and an energy sword
Id love to see people brought up more the fact that the special waepons variations in halo 5 are the canon weapons that spartans II are currently using, chief is the only one that is bringing an unmodified AR to the battlefield for some reason
@@martinnavarrete5279 It's probably because it's the weapon he's used to and the one with the most readily available ammunition.
@@spartanx9293 spartans have pretty wild weapons, a railgun that fires armor piericing high explosive ammunition. if a lasgun can pierce and hurt a space marine that railgun is easily a one shot. they also have variants with two shot rounds. the sniper fires a 14.5 x 114 mm apfsds round, once again more than capable of punching through space marine armor. and the spartan laser is capable of doing the railguns job but more than likely able to drop three spacemarines if theyre lined up. the problem is everyone talks about the AR all day because its what you use most of the time in the game. but the railgun, splaser, those are mostly reserved for augmented soldiers. you know spartans
Colin: “entire army’s were destroyed by Spartans alone”
Me: “yeah, very true. But, entire species were wiped from existence by Space Marines”
Counter Argument, wiping out cavemen is not praiseworthy once you leave the standards of the Space Bretonnians.
@@Predator20357 entire armies were beaten by spartans alone. Grabted the spartans died in the end or were stranded to the point humanity went nearly extinct until the aliens had a civil war.
@@Predator20357round 1000 Space Marines (Emperor's Children) with the aid of their primarch completely exterminated a nightmarish chaos worshipping species called the Laer. The Laer were serpentine, four armed reptiles with bug-like faces. They were obsessed with perfection, so they used gene-enhancement to essentially make themselves super-predators. They were easily able to keep up with the Astartes who each had at least a couple hundred years of experience on the lower end and upwards of 1000 on the higher end. Their warriors typically used two power-swords and two gauntlets which could emit green plasma, both of which were capable of rending the ceremite armor of the Astartes. Ceramite is a fictional metal which is capable of taking the brunt of a high powered explosive without significant damage. Lasbolts, (Which can cause a human to blow up in a shower of cauterised visera) scale far above any of the conventional projectile weapons the UNSC uses bounce right off Ceramite, but these Laer were shredding right through it. Within a month the whole planet was depopulated. The Laer are far from the worse the Imperium has faced too. For example, there is a little known species called the Hrudd who can manipulate time around them so that any living thing around them rapidly ages until they turn into dust. A regular human dies in seconds while a space marine dies in a minute more of less just from being in their proximity. Space Marines are eating Spartans for lunch any day. They come from a much harsher galaxy and are the product of it.
@@enigmachinasclass8153I SHALL PRAISE YOU TO YOUR CAPTAIN FOR YOUR VALOROUS DEFENSE OF OUR KNIGHTLY ORDERS OF ASTARTES BROTHER ENIGMACHINACLASSICUS
@@OljeiKhan Just doing my duty, brother Khan
I would argue that you're not a good warthog driver UNLESS you're flipping your warthog....strategically
Man this is an awsome idea. i reallly want to see more episodes of this, be it 40k vs something else or 40k vs 40k
Not even the emperor could mobilize every Space Marine in the galaxy at this point in time😂
The guy advocating for spacemarines has literally no information... only insults 😂😂😂
Colin talks about matt ward plot armor like master chief doesn't exist. The guy literally replaced his energy shield with plot armor.
Colin was definitely the better debater, so going purely based off of argument and not the fact I think a space marine would beat a spartan, Colin wins
Here to keep this comment section alive, and to share some more reccomended research for those interested in more Halo stuff!
When it comes to specific enhancments for the Spartan II's verses the III's, they're pretty different but get nearly the same results. II's were more cybernetics, III's were more chemically induced. The main reason that III's are viewed as inferior was because of the role of most of the III's: Fodder to buy time for humanity. They weren't put in armor that cost as much as a star ship, they were put in SPI, used for infiltration and stealth, while being slightly more protective than the best armor ODST's have access to. There's even a moment in the book Halo: Ghosts of Onyx where a III was able to stand up to Kelly, a Spartan II, briefly in a fight, even when Kelly was the only one in Mjolnir, so it's definitely not the Augmentations that make them lesser. The main thing that II's may have over III's is service time. II's fought in the Human-Covenant war for THIRTY YEARS, at least those who survived, which is less than 20 if i remember right. III's meanwhile (the Alpha company at least) until 2536, 11 years since the war first started, so were a bit behind in that regard.
Augmentation wise, they're on par with II's, so much so, specific candidates of the III program (Noble Team, and Six as examples) were pulled from the suicide missions and put in Mjolnir and set to work. Hell, when it comes to lethality, there's only 2 Spartans with the classification of Hyper Lethal; Master Chief and Noble Six, a Spartan II and III respectively. So, in the same armor, they're on par, just with varying degrees of combat experience, and can vary depending on the company of III's, Like Gamma Company, with the drug Collin mentioned to make them terrifying killing machines until they dropped, being able to IGNORE deadly wounds until minutes after the battle ended, in which they finally succumbed to their wounds.
If you want more details on the augmentations, Installation 00 does an amazing in depth guide on much of the stuff in Halo, from the Augmentations for each Spartan Class, to each mark of Mjolnir that's showed up in cannon, it's kind of insane.
Secondly, when it comes to the Nuclear option, it's not only stated, but used in at least 1 book that I remember; Halo First Strike, which takes place between the events of Halo 1 and 2, in which one of the Spartan's that was rescued from Reach dies while trying to take a Covenant cruiser mid slipspace battle, and I believe either Chief or Kelly activates the self destruct sequence on that Spartan's armor.
just based on information presented here, what is a space marines perception rates? because if they cant ever hit a spartan how would they win?
Space marines have the perception capacity to get thirty headshots in a row, but can't decide whether or not to Leroy Jenkins into a horde of broodlords
@@PurpleTomDayR Remember, there's a saying that Space Marines don't miss
Space Marines have stated microsecond reaction times vs Spartan’s millisecond reaction times. Space Marines are faster.
I say Spartan-II’s are more akin to a blend of space marines and imperial assassins. Spartans may not be able to dodge full-auto bolters but redirecting missiles and punching banshees out of the sky like a tennis ball is something I’ve never heard of a space marine doing. Space marines are full on shock troops while Spartans can fill in any role much more fluidly.
I'd say its the other way around spartan being shock troops, and spacemarines being adaptable to their role in an army, provided they've earned the right to use more than just a Bolt rifle, grenades, bolt pistol, and combat knife
Spartans would be able to dodge the boltors, there are several bullet dodging and missile dodging fears in the lore, showing them at times perceive these events in slow motion, and some with AI assistance to amplify their reaction speeds to absurd levels
Spartans are just gene defected Astartes that lower their Endurance & Stamina while having higher speed & Agility.
Who has the sexier robots, UNSC, the Necrons, or Star Wars?
Worse idea: The Force vs Psyker powers, which are better? Both seem dangerous and powerful, mysterious, and difficult to master.
Between star wars, and Halo. Personally leaning towards Star Wars.
As with psyker powers vs. force. Psykers have more abilities, and their raw power is superior on average. Darth vader is a high A tier force user, but in 40k, he'd be a higher B tier. The only downside is the unpredictability of psykers. They get varying types of lowers at varying level. An average force user is someone who can walk into a cantina or bar full of criminals with confidence. The average psyker is likly to have zero combat oriented abilities or is not properly trained or conditioned to use them properly. Overall, though, I'd say psykers abilities are better.
@@myduckisonqauck7227star wars force stomps psykers
@@Akbar_and_Shaa yea and the sky is green
@megamente7849 Psykers see a shadow of the warp bam no power nihilus encounters the tyranid swarm shadow and pulls out his spoon.
Trazyn wins. Also I feel like Psykers win because they are more abundant in comparison to Force users and could bring out more effects than a Force user could. Unless I'm misreading things and you can like do whatever you want with the Force with training in lore.
spartans sweep 1 vs 1, not sure how it even became an argument of volume towards the end lol, that's probably why, the 1 vs 1 argument was hard lost
Dude a space marine can rip apart tanks physically a Spartan wouldn’t stand a chance they’re bigger they’re guns are bigger bigger bullets bigger blades a Spartan would get overwhelmed by the pure physicality alone, if the flood wasn’t a thing the space marine would end every war they are fighting without difficulty
@@magpipe146Care to give an in-lore example of a Space Marine tearing apart a tank or are you just going to say they can and move on?
@@starhammer5247 Looks like they moved on.
Your honor if I could please bring attention to the screen where I will now play the part of winter contingency that goes like: "bdewdum bwd bwd bwd bwdbwdbwdbum bdewdum".
I rest my case.
Ah yes, good ole Engaged, one of the best songs in Halo: Reach. I actually played that during Collin's third round, it was GLORIOUS
Woo yeah baby that's what i've been waiting for, that's what it's all about, love this content
i think colin had the better argument although i am also biased towards spartans. i think a good idea for another vs could be some age of sigmar vs 40k stuff, not exactly sure what but im sure colin at least has some good ideas being the resident fantasy nerd(which i respect highly)
I'm going to need the next one of these to be anybody defending the Bretons against Colin just to hear the rage induced spasms it's going to send him into 😂
But I quite like Bretons! With the blood of Elves in them bolstering their magic and a history of a fine warrior culture, they’re some of Tamriel’s coolest warriors. Just look at that one ESO trailer, that dude kicks ass.
Surely you don’t meant Bretonnia, right? Surely you meant the Elder Scrolls Bretons, right? Right?!
@@pancreasnowork9939 You had me in the first half ngl
@@pancreasnowork9939 From what I recall, Bretons put so many enchantments on their armour that it gives others magical radiation poisoning. You should probably do some videos on the other races of Tamriel and probably some tinfoil hat shenanigans concerning Akavir.
Man, been playing spacemarine 2 and they go through a lot of crap. But then i realize that Chief went into infected high charity by himself and in reality it wouldve been way more hectic than the games actually made it. I mean lore wise chief probably went into high charity for like 20min and bounced.
"GIRTHY!?"
"Girthy, your honour"
You should also run a pole (if you haven't already) and ask the public to vote on who won.
And the point with the Spartans getting worse so are the space Marines.
Gene seeds getting more corrupted
Chapters like the Imperial fist only have one heart and others are losing the ability to have certain extra organs
The black rage is another thing plaguing several chapters
Mutations too
And the thing dealing with the dark angles and the fallen considering most fallen aren't with chaos
And chaos too
The gene seeds are just getting too strained and split up among the growing amount of chapters its deteriorating
Spartans aren't really getting worse at least not in the way people think in comparison to Spartan 2s threes and fours are direct downgrades but the fours are an improvement on the threes and the threes were made to be cheaper and the fours despite having pretty much the same in terms of augmentations can't really measure up to the degree of training a spartan 2 has
As far as I'm aware the Black Rage is the only flaw that wasn't part of the space marines since the very beginning. All the other flaws have been a part of the various geneseeds since the vary first batch
Iron Hands, Ultramarines, White Scars, and Dark Angels, their successors included, all display superb genetic stability. I'm not sure about the Imperial Fists no longer being able to produce the secondary heart. I do know they lack a betcher's gland, that organ that enables Astartes to spit highly acidic venom. The Raven Guard remain stable as well. Aside from their malfunctioning melanchrome organ, no notable defects. The only known successor to the Salamanders to present with significant mutation are the Black Dragons. The only notable geneseed defects are among Blood Angels and Space Wolves geneseed. And besides, they carried on fighting with those defects for well over 12,000 years at this point. The UNSC hasn't even been around for a 20th of that time period.
Grey Knights and Adeptus Custodes are immune to Chaos gene corruption.
With the entire primaris thing going on most of that was fixed.
Master Chief walking into a room of Astartes like Kiryu walking into a room of 100 Yakuza and breaking all of their bones
Primarch Vulkan rips any armorwearing Spartan in two by strength alone, his hammer would annihilate multiple Masterchiefs (Masterchief aka the best Spartan got pummeled by way weaker Atriox). Magically protected 1vs1 handcombat godlike Kharn would walk through the an entire army of Spartans.
Master Chief without plot armor would not evn beat a Primaris Marine in hand to hand combat. Plague Marines corrosion and plagues are many times more potent than Floods and the Plague Marines are even harder to kill than regular Space Manrines. Thousands Sons would laugh and advance unfazed by the tiny 762 and .50 caliber used by Spartans, Thousand Sons unfazed by way bigger .75 caliper.
Doesn't matter, a Chadtsodes beats both!
This goes wrong when andy begin to show not the might of the space marine but the overall strength of imperium as a whole
This video is lore crime
Noticed that when it comes to Strategy and Military Doctrine the Spartans are lot more flexible and adapative in combat than most Space Marine Chapters.
Strategy and Military Doctrine the Spartans are nothing compared to Roboute Gulliman (the genetically and magically enhanced master strategist) and his Ultra marines who have Gulliman0s gene seed
@@THEREALZENFORCEYeah, Spartans are *not* winning against the Ultrasmurfs
Flexible and adaptive my ass
All of them they do hit an run
And that's it
was hoping to see Andy bring up diverse specialization of space marines units in round 2. Especially if he brought up dreadnought, ending the argument with "even in death we still serve"
Halo Lore: All of the highest end feats are moments of exceptional action in the midst of epic struggles that are real and did happen, but are likely not routine to the individual.
Warhammer Lore: All of the highest end feats in the series are canonically propaganda and at least some exaggeration.
Halo Game Mechanics: Guns kill people in titanium armor if you get shot enough.
Warhammer Game Mechanics: A normal human with a normal spear has a 1-in-6 chance of punching through the power armor and a 1-6 chance of killing the space marine outright with said strike once through the armor.
Hm, yes.
How is this even a competition.
Colin definitely wins this argument not that I agree a spartan could take on a space marine colin just structured his argument better
Spartans are more durable then vulcan so I think they clap an astartes
*SUGGESTION:* *_Darth Maul (Sith Lord) vs Typhus (Death Guard First Captain)_*
I think Andy missed the point that Space Marines have so much diversity in their weaponry and armor. Terminators are crazy strong, Librarians are incredibly powerful, and massive tanks like the Fellblade or Astraeus are insane. The differences between chapters are also very important to take into account. Iron Hands are going to shoot you until you're a grease smear on the ground, Raven Guard will strike from the shadows, Blood Angels are terrifying, and Black Templars fight with the righteous zeal of the God Emperor. Given this, I don't see how the Spartans can win. One on one the Spartans maybe have the advantage, but against any 1st company, they don't stand a chance.
Love this format!!!!
you know what happened after emile was stabbed all the way through the body by a foot wide sword made of plasma? he pulled himself off the blade turned around and ripped out the elites throat through its shields.
Wait till he realizes that Space Marines do the exact same stuff
One thing that Colin forgot is that spartan are very, no extremely adaptable and they are able to use their enemies weapons. So they can use bolters against space marines. Also space marines are way more durable BUT Spartans are way more agile and flexible btw.
It’s essentially facing a Harlequin, the threat isn’t their potential strength, it’s that you can’t hit them.
Bolters are gene coded to the Astartes so no they just can't be picked up and used. However when brought back they could be unlocked but not on the battlefield.
@@eichler721 pretty sure a ai could do it on the battle field
@@fallensigh199 no as they don't know the Astartes gene codes as they are different for every chapter. Also the language code is different. The Forerunner stuff hacked by Cortana she had a in from other Forerunner AI. Otherwise they would hack all the Covenant stuff and win the war which didn't happen.
@@eichler721 Well... Usually the UNSC WAS dominating in cyber warfare when it came down to it. Their AI were just not as common typically.
But it isn't as simple as just "hack the planet", a lot of Cov stuff wasn't really networked in that way. Hacking and getting past the gene-lock on the gun would be easier than hacking a system that doesn't actually have control over all that much digitally.
Plus, usually, to get that root access, they needed to get onto the ship proper. The bolter would be easier to get past.
Don’t care bout no space marines, guardsmen are the real chads
This was everything I expected as a nerd fight and its great.
It honestly depends on the Marine Chapter, because it sounds like much of the argument was Master Chief vs. a line member of the Ultras. A Sally? Even bigger and stronger. Ravenguard? Supernatural cloaking.
Roboute Gulliman with one of his gauntlets would squeeze Masterchief to death.
Hammerwileding Vulcan is many times stronger (and has undying ressurrection) than Tartarus, Atriox (who wiped the floor with Masterchief).
Magnus The Red is now a supernatural neverdying daemon prince
@@THEREALZENFORCE A line member is something different than a Primarch. someone mentioned Cato, who's an Ultra and not a Primarch, would smash.
Better yet, watch Commissar Caiphus Cain accidentally win.
@@THEREALZENFORCE What the fuck does that have to do with this argument? We're talking about average Spartan vs average Space Marine, not named characters, let alone primarchs.
It's average Spartan vs average Space Marine, the Ultramarines are just the most average and generic chapter so they're used for this comparison.
@@THEREALZENFORCE do you actually not realise that Primarchs are not just space marine leaders?
Let's be clear a Spartan leading several squads of ODSTs is essentially a Ford from Hell being led by a demon Lord to the Covenant😂
1 in halo first strike grace 053 got killed by 3 shots from a brute shot wich is essentially a 40mm grenade launcher so a bolter would royally ruin a spartans day. 2nd you are comparing apples and oranges. This is like saying who would win in a fight, a ninja or a knight? They are designed for completely different tasks. A ninja is an assassin ment to infiltrate and not be seen, a knight is a warrior ment to be on the front lines of a battle and take a beating. Spartans were made to kill terrorists and astartes were made to be a blunt weapon against hordes of monsters like orks so at the end of the day it's not a fair comparison.
Very true, but I think Colin just wanted an excuse to talk about halo
Yea but which woud win
The brute shot is not 40mm
It preforms way higger it can explode large stone pillars and huge rock formations
Add to the fact that Grace was in damaged mk5 armor now all spartans have gen 3
They Spartans are more adaptable on an individual level and a Spartan is on par with Eldar, space marines are strong yes but so are Spartans, it’s not comparing ninjas too knights it’s comparing a more agile super soldier to a more durable, especially since these traits vary amongst chapter, also it’s not like space marines win every fight, orks, elder, tau, even imperial guard kill chaos space marines, which are technically stronger. They both have the same job but one spartan can do a multiple tasks while a space marine has a squad tasked to their role.
Noble 6 and chief have both fallen from orbit without a scratch. It shocks me they ever die
Spartan tactics > Astartes tactics.
ODSTs vs Tempestus Scions.
Never let this man debate for halo again
I know I’m late to this, but Spartan 2s have a reaction time of 300% increased compared to their pre-augmented selves. And Spartan 3s have the exact same augmented results as the 2s except the 3s have no thyroid implant meaning they are on average smaller than the 2s, plus for the 3s the augmentations are all chemical rather than the (mostly) surgical one the 2s have.
Not hating, just correcting some small mistakes. Great video though.
Kirt with mk6 armor wuld be unstoppable
Not to mention that with on board AI, their reflexes are even MORE enhanced
Actually it was supposed to be %300, but it become %1000 by accident.
I am surprised they did use loyalty as a quip
I don't know about 100km/h, but I know some Soul Drinkers did about 1/2 mile running straight through walls in a Hulk in about a minute.
Truly happy to see a larger group doing lore. Don't get me wrong, Baldy and Luetin are Top Tier fantastic but sometimes you need a lighthearted listen
A thing to also keep track of is the type of SM and Spartan in the fight
A Spartan 2 could possibly take on your average space marine in a head to head fight, I'd say the Spartan is more nimble and more versatile as their not bogged down by dogma, but the vast majority of the UNSC small arms won't do much of anything to a space marines armor, only weapons I can see posing a threat in anyway is the Sniper, Spartan laser, Railgun, rocket launcher and so on, but the Space marine has the edge in durability and overall power, let's not forget that a space marine has two hearts and three lungs, not to mention their black carapace, it's also been shown that blowing off a SM's arm does little to nothing to stop it, and their blood clots nearly instantly.
Another deciding factor is experience, if I remember correctly, I recall seeing a statement saying that the average SM has about 300 years worth of battle experience compared to most Spartans having a few decades worth, overall experience alone can make all the difference.
A Spartan 2 could certainly pose a threat to a space marine, but a space marine would body most Spartan 3 and 4's laughably, I love Halo, and I grew up on it, and of course, I love 40k too, Halo is a lot more powerful then what people give it credit for, and some factions like the forerunners, precursors and flood would indeed pose a threat to the 40k universe, but 40k is generally on an entire different level then Halo, Halo's lore is far more grounded in reality, where as 40k is the rule of cool and balls off the walls with it's lore, our real world facts and logic won't apply to 40k, I find that's what a lot of people get wrong about 40k and these vs videos, you can't apply real world facts and logic to a universe that doesn't even use them to begin with
the main downsides of spartan 4s isnt augmentations or armor its experience. the armor spartan 4s have put them roughtly physically onpar with masterchief, which he was in pretty much every measure actually average for a spartan. spartan 4 armor has all the durability bells and whistles plus the addition of better mobility with the more advanced thrust package which early armor didnt have quite as advanced. armor wise spartan 4s are pretty equal as it increases their strength roughtly to a spartan 2, and gives them extreme durability. theyre still called demons for a reason. spartans are still hyper lethal within universe
There's only two spartans that are dubbed "hyper-lethal" which were noble 6, and the chief himself.
In terms of armor, suit capabilities and all, yeah their pretty much equal to a Spartan 2, but another one of the main differences is that unlike the 3's and 4's, Spartan 2's were trained from childhood, where as 3's were if I remember correctly taken from war orphans from the war, and 4's were taken from worthy soldiers that had already reached adult hood.
On a purely physical level, Spartan 2's are easily the strongest of the Spartan 2's, Spartan 3's could easily be just as potent as a 2, but often had far inferior armor or no energy shields at all, plus I'm pretty sure they had basically no fear at all, which led to them making unnecessarily reckless actions
The main strengths of a Spartan IV is their more advanced armor and overall capabilities, as like the 3's, their meant more so for mass deployments and mass production, where as the 2's were meant to be entirely one man armies, an example of this is in Halo 5 when Chief fights Locke, multiple times Chief holds back lock with his strength fairly easily, IV's and 3's don't have the same level of pure augmentations as spartan 2's, but compensate for it with far more advanced armor and shielding, in short 4's are meant to fight as a team, 3's were meant for extreme risk missions, and 2's were meant to just fuck the covenant over lol
Shit tbh I think the forerunners could straight up dominate in the 40k universe
@@nicholaswilkerson4394War in Heaven Necrons, DAOT Mechanivores, Ancient Eldar, Old Ones, C’Tan, Haarlocks Engine, Enuncia, Chaos Gods, Krorks, Breath of the Gods say hello there.
On chief's fastest feat, I would look into Installation00's video on the subject, as he does the acceleration calculations to get Chief's actual speed around 98mph instead of his average speed across the 500m which was 65.
Also, in tbe newer lore Gen III Mjolnir is crazy shit. Kelly, for example, manages to cover 50 meters in the time it takes Fred to swap his SPNKR tubes. If we use the in-game reload time of 1.2sec (which we can all admit is pretty slow and is likely a gameplay purpose), this means Kelly was sprinting at again, 98mph, but this was in Gen III, meaning this was probably her average speed. Anyway, cool video, good Arguments Pancreas!
Also there is like 3 feats where spartans crossed the 80 mph speed
Spartan 3 Tom outspeed a warthog(79 mph)(Legacy of Onyx)
Spartan 2 Linda manged to catch a ghost(82 mph)(A comic)
Spartan 4 fireteam Osiris run at speeds around 80 mph (Halo 5 beginning).
Listen, if we're going by gameplay, Captain Titus can theoretically fall to a Gretchin. Therefore, he is the virgin while the Chad Master Chief only falls to a Grunt, which is stronger than your average human. I rest my case
Here's a good comparison though. Imagine the Spartans as Eldar without the Psychic powers. That's basically how they are. Sure, put them into Warhammer and they might gain those powers, but without them they're basically Eldar without psychic shenanigans.
I hope this doesn't give Colin a hernia though lol
Also where we getting Colin vs Bricky for the next Vs episode?
Virgin Master Chief dies to two inches of water.
@@Pepsi-Mann21 if there was any water left on gria, I'm sure that Titus would die on it too
@@Streygenmoment Space Marines can survive underground in melted concrete for five thousand years, what's little water gonna do?
Fuck yeah, using the STRONGEST Spartans as the matchup.
I did some research on the halo scaling which consisted of me looking at the vs battle wiki and looking at what's bullshit and what isn't. I have an answer to the question if a space marine is stronger than a Spartan 2.
If you want a short summary of a comparison between a spartan 2 vs a space marine there's a TL;DR at the end of this.
The weapons and shields of the Spartan 2s and Space marines match with the exception of heavy weapons as the heavy weapons of regular space marines peak off at being able to destroy large buildings be it power fists or heavier plasma weaponry while Spartan 2s cap off at equipment that could destroy a city block with weapons on the level of the Incineration Cannon.
So in general when it comes to attack potency Spartan 2s have access to equipment more powerful than space marines, though this is with the newest weaponry the UNSC has. While in melee, recent power armor used by Spartan 2s allows them to have as much attack potency though beforehand the Spartan 2s would be outclassed in melee.
As for combat speed which I'll clarify the meaning of, space marines easily outclass spartan 2s. Combat speed means how fast a person can react to attacks. So if a guy can swat or dodge an arrow coming at them that guy has a combat speed of that arrow which doesn't mean they can run as fast as the arrow.
Spartan 2s have dodged hand gun shots at point blank, plasma projectiles of the covenant and have reacted to stun grenades putting them comfortably in supersonic levels of combat speed aka above MACH 1. Space marines on the other hand have swatted away bolts at near point blank range. Which puts them at hypersonic levels of speed aka above MACH 5. Spartan 2s could be faster but there hasn't been any statements of descriptions I am aware that puts them above MACH 5.
Spartan 2s are slightly worse at melee because they have slower reaction times but they have better equipment than space marines as of recent.
TL;DR For the Warhammer fans spartan 2s are basically if you tried to make a fire caste T'au into a space marine. Or for the halo fans, space marines are elites that are dumber about honor and can hit you with a melee attack 5 times faster.
I will note that named character space marines on the level of abbadon are a whole different beast that's FAR more ridiculous due to statements and scaling around Eldrad but I won't get into it
Feat-based power scaling is always, without exception, completely stupid and always gets you numbers that are faaaar beyond what the author reasonably expects their character to be able to do. Death Battle does the same stupid crap and they’re just as wrong as you are every time they do it. Hercules can’t lift the modern conception of the universe just because ancient Greeks imagined that he lifted a much smaller idea of what the universe is. Furthermore they never scaled his other feats with that one and he obviously doesn’t have that kind of strength when dealing with day to day things. You’d think someone with that kind of power would kick a hydra into Pluto, but clearly he fought his foes on much more equal terms.
Likewise, there is absolutely no way the author intended for space marines to move at Mach 5 just because the author once wrote an anime moment where they slashed some bolter shells out of the air or whatever.
I hate power level discussions they’re always stupid.
@@ManicPixieTransGirl I feel like that's cope. Feats are the most grounded shit when it comes to powerscaling I would know this from scaling starwars and the boo saga of dragon ball.
Additionally when a space marine swats a bolt that's been stated to be hypersonic in speed I feel like they intended it or they fucked up. I can't read their mind so I go for the charitable interpretation
Additionally don't fucking compare any of the shit I say to death battle. They miscalculate feats with established calcs either forget half the shit a character has done or in the case of comic book characters like superman they combine half of the versions of the character. Also most of the bad scaling they've done is misinterpretation of statements AROUND feats of strength. Like the book with infinite pages shit forgetting he was boosted in strength and that it's not technically infinite as several characters have read it and it's more of a book containing every other book in the universe. And they forgot he held it up for a few seconds before dropping it
You're having an issue of suspension of disbelief not an issue with scaling.
@@petra4385 I’m not coping for anything, I don’t care who wins your theoretical power level discussion, feats are simply a stupid and dishonest way of framing this discussion because, as I already said and as you failed to address, there is no way the author intended for their characters to be as strong or fast as the math of their feats would suggest. You speak of death battle using multiple characters from different authors, but is 40k not exactly the same? There are dozens of authors and hundreds of books, you find one book with one feat and say that all space marines move at Mach 5.
Tell me with a straight face, so you honestly believe that the author did the math on their stupid anime moment they wrote and intended for their audience to do the math and make the calculations as well? Do you think the Superman authors did the math when Superman sneezes a galaxy out of existence or whatever but then gets punched into a wall by wonder woman? No the answer is simply that the feat is inconsistent with their intended abilities because authors are not mathematicians and this conversation is dumb.
Lol what? The incineration cannon is a forerunner weapon, it ain’t something you can just casually pick up off a UNSC weapon rack.
Turn Schola Progenium facilities into Spartan factories
Nice Episode I wish it was longer though
I feel on a individual 1 vs 1 fight it's very even and would be an interesting fight
AT LAST
I actually had to bite my tongue during the first Astartes part even though I'm just listening. Spartans do half the stuff that's mentioned lol
The average space marine is a bit better there the average spartan in range combat where most spartans would prefer to fight in. And a spartan rifle doesn't compare to a marines bolter. But in hand to hand a space marine would rip apart a spartan. As for master chef and noble 6 they should be compare to a character like captain titus.
Also I don't think master chef could beat a chapter master those monsters are on a different level. Like how marneus calgar picked a necron pylon and use it as a melee weapon or that one time he ripped the head off of a lord of skulls
Didn't, Marneus beat an Avatar of Khaine to death?
and yet somehow gets bet by a hormagunt
I don’t think they’d necessarily rip apart a spartan on account of spartans being able to punch apart tanks since at least halo 2 or 3 (can’t quite remember which)
@@charles-vi7qb That's cute : Gauntlet wearing Space Marines one punch tanks and T-Rex sized spacemonsters into destruction. Primarch Vulkan rips any armorwearing Spartan in two by strength alone, his hammer would annihilate multiple Masterchiefs (Masterchief aka the best Spartan got pummeled by way weaker Atriox).
@@THEREALZENFORCE
spartans can actually survive drops from orbit, meanwhile there’s an entire short story about a space marine’s last thoughts when he’s about to die from doing so. Hell, even vulkan himself couldn’t do so, only surviving because he literally cannot permanently die.
Primarchs eat space marines for breakfast, like hell even guiliman, the glorified office worker of the primarchs, punched his way through chaos space marine forces upon his reawaking, so no shit they’d have little issue with spartans, that doesn’t prove really anything other than the primarchs are strong because they’re primarchs.
Chaos Space marines had trouble with souped up ogryns during the horus heresy, which required horus himself to deal with them. Brutes are for all intents and purposes are like ogryns on steroids, while being far smarter on average, and as of halo 3, having actual energy shields.
Also, master chief isn’t ‘the best spartan’, he’s the most average in terms of ability, he’s the glorified ultramarines of spartans; even then, he basically just got tossed around, got woken up a few months later, and when on a killing spree during the events of halo infinite.
Didn't master chief simping for Cortana doom the Galaxy..... And skaven are the best-best in the whole galaxy yes-yes
For round 2 let it be known that 6 had a reentry pack. And chief was in atmosphere with an alien door to take the blow.
Now I adore both universes here but Collin won the argument easily, Eli was to fixated on the cool factor and the overwhelming numbers of space marines and less about them as individual soldiers. Also there is no evidence whatsoever, that space marines are physically stronger or faster than Spartan 2's. Out of the armor at 14, the Spartans were capable of lifting 3x their body weight, If I remember correctly Spartans are around 7 ft to 7 and 1/2 ft tall and wave over 300 to 350 lb so they're carrying capacity could range from 900 to over 1,000 Ib so basically half a ton. With the armor this is multiplied multiple times over If I remember correctly, I think the gen 1 Mark 4 multiplies a. Spartan strength 10x fold. This is excluding the Spartan 2's reaction times which far exceed the space marines by quite a wide margin. The Spartan 2s reaction speed and ability to calculate and process information is so fast that they literally see the world in slow motion and not a small amount by multiple times slower than a normal person is how they see the world this is out of the armor the mjolnir armor more than doubles their reaction speed. As much as I love space marines they do not nearly have this kind of reaction speed feat that Spartans do. The main advantage that space marines do have, however, is there arsenal of weapons, bolters have been calculated out to be nearly if not as powerful as a 50 BMG but if it was mid-range hyper modular capable of effective semi-auto and fully automatic firing patterns with rocket propelled ammunition that micro explodes after impacts. However, there arsenal is countered pretty fiercely by the Spartans more effective and superior tactical training as well as being biological supercomputers. So I do believe there is a very sound argument to prove that Spartans are indeed more intelligent than Marines as well.
Excellent argument from Collin, unfortunately it's completely invalidated because he said the word "ethics" within a hundred miles of ONI.
Andy wants to kiss an Astartes SO BAD
(And so do I)
I think the thing to do in these scenarios is to switch both soldiers around into the other universe and see how they would individually perform as members of the respective human factions. And to be honest? Spartans would be a boon to the Imperium just as space marines to the UNSC. Though, I will say that feats for space marines are much more... Hand wavey? There is a huge divide across the lore in terms of feats, varying from extremely well equipped and armored humans with tough physiologies to near demigods. For the spartans... You would have heavily augmented humans, capable of extreme speed, agility, strength, and razor-sharp reflexes clad in durable armor that even the imperium would consider quite good, with a full kinetic and energy shield on top (That is capable of recharging during battlefield conditions). It's essentially a vindicare assassin on steroids. A space marine would be a DEAD fool to underestimate someone like that.