The large ALICE pack can be adapted to almost any pack frame by inserting a section of 1/2-3/4” wooden dowel into the upper frame pocket as an anchor, then strapping or binding it to attachment points of a frame.
The cracking problem is a thing with the military because the military focuses on maxing load out. For me, and most other users its not about maximum load out. Its about comfort and organization of moderate loads. 20-30 lbs max. IMHO, the military should go back to the old school plywood packboard for stuff like mortars, ammo, jerrycans, etc. Something like that, but with a suspension system like the MOLLE 2. Before you collapse with laughter, consider that there are USED ones that are still as good as new. And a lot more economical.
The frames didnt crack from overuse-they cracked from grunts tossing them from vehicles, as we have always done. Unless you are regularly tossing these frames from a height of 5', with 80 lbs of gear in them, they likely wont crack. I have been running a medium ALICE pack on a 1606 MC frame for 7 years now, no cracks. I am also not tossing it from the back of a 5 ton.
Exactly, I never actually saw the FILBE frames crack from actual use, hundreds and hundreds of Marines in my battalions using them with no issue. Don't throw them from trucks. They are incredibly robust, they hold up to being hung off the sides of LAVs and AAVs and hundreds of miles of hiking.
The whole filbe frame straps and kidney belt system is absolutely phenomenal. We used to load our flaks and kevlars inside our pain packs plus everything else, must have been 80-90lb on our backs, and I could loosen the shoulder straps completely and hang the entire load off just the belt alone for miles. An ALICE pack has nowhere near the volumetric capacity to carry 80lb, so the suspension is more than adequate for lesser loads and will probably never crack
With the original MOLLE frame that the ALICE pack will fit on, if you know where the weak spot is before it cracks, then reenforce that area on both sides of the frame front and back with aluminium straps that will fit into the channel lengthwise and bolt through the slots, I have done it,,works great, thanks for sharing your thoughts.
So.... for you enterprising DIYers..... try what I did.... take 1/2 copper pipe... cut to the width of the Alice pocket for the frame... solder a cap on each end... place this inside the pocket. Attach this to your frame using the webbing straps for the Molle frames... attaching the lower part of the pack to the frame as you would with the alice frame... mine has not failed and it works great without having to modify the frame....
Exactly what I did, with ½" PVC and it will handle more 5han I can carry. Later on, I received a gift of a worn out ALICE frame, so I just drilled the rivets and took it apart, used 2 ½" PVC elbows and short length of pipe at the bottom ends for a spacer to keep it rigid and tied it on with hvy dty zip ties. Its solid as a straight ALICE frame and I can quick detach the pack, which has some LC2 straps on it, for off frame use.
@@andrewlee4078 I do not. Well... I do, but not posted anywhere. Basically I took the outer hoop of an ALICE frame(just an aluminum tube 'U') and ziptied it to a MOLLE frame; like piggybacking an ALICE frame on a MOLLE Its a little more involved, but thats the gist. The other mod OP is talking about is just a single length of pipe or wooden dowel (even a stick) placed laterally in the frame pocket and then hung by straps or rope, to the top of the MOLLE frame; kinda like a coat hanger. Very simple and easy to improvise, but not as secure.
I found a MOLLE plastic frame at an estate sale and paid double for it to help the family. I didn't need the backpack since it was worn out, but just the frame, shoulder straps and waist belt. I bought a lot of strapping, clips and created a system to run a strap through the existing day pack shoulder straps, secured it to the frame, and two more straps holding the bag. I carry camcorders and gear in the bag. Tripods, sliders, etc. are secured on either side with shorter straps. The frame is very adaptable! So now I could carry one pack at a time into the boonies and set up a complete movie set if I wished, but probably not. I see a lot of potential for those frames.
I run a Down East Ind. 1609 open perimeter frame on my medium ALICE. It’s far more flexible and far less prone to cracking than those larger frames. It cannot be used on a large because they don’t have the strap attachments at the top of the large bag, but it will work in the medium that has the attachment points for the shoulder straps at the top of the bag.
Man you made this way harder than it has to be. Go to Tactical Tailor they sell welded aluminum frames and an awesome suspension system that smokes the MOLLE system.
After much trial and error (And 7 trashed frames) the way to go on this seems to be a Carbon Fiber infused adapter plate for the much more available (and cheaper) 1603 frame. I am currently have the proper molds made for the plate and should have something soon.
There is a redesigned frame that is reinforced at the stress point. The problem has been solved even though it is harder to come by these versions. I was fortunate to get one, but it was a little more expensive.
I don't know where you live but I live in the Western United States Alice systems are plentiful you go to any military store you can outfit analysis system easy Molly Molly to anything you want so stuck with me these guys saying they're not enough around over here in the last we have a pretty much military store in every city just yesterday I looked for a Alice pack Shelf they're $4.25 and they have a crate of them that's right at crate and that's like over 1,000 pack shelves the pack frames they have at least 20 now the tax themselves you got to go to another city because our city doesn't have right now they're out but all I do is look up another City's military surplus store a few miles away and then probably have it Stop Believing the stuff he saying he have trouble finding it the reality from Phoenix all the way to northern Idaho and along the coast of Western United States of Western Washington all the way through Oregon and California I found no problem finding Alice pack gear so look up military surplus store and then type in California Nevada Oregon Phoenix Colorado Utah Idaho and find a local listing here cuz they'll ship it to you
Couldn't the 1606 frame be strengthened with schedule 40 pvc and zip ties? Placed with the stress points in the middle. Seems there should be SOME method of reinforcing it on its weak points
The problem isn't the weight. The problem is, when you cut something, it becomes more likely that additional 'cuts' will spread out across that same structure. The modding process literally undermines the structure of parts of the 1603 frame, making it more prone to cracks. You'd need to attach the ALICE pack to the 1603 frame without cutting into it.
If you can find one the out of production Coleman Ram-X frame fits the large Alice and so do the Molle straps and waist belt. That is how I modified my Alice and find it works with no problems.
1/2 in PVC 11inches, 2 ea end caps goes into frame pocket. 1/2 in PVC 13 1/4 inches, 2 ea end caps goes outside of frame pocket. Join PVC with cable ties and tie to MOLLE frame.
Cheap Chicom knockoffs...mine fell apart on the first outing. Lasted a day and a half. Cobbled it together to get me through 2 more days. Got back to my vehicle stripped the pack off and drove over the frame and pitched it in the trash.
@@veinspect after much searching finally won a bid on an USGI alice pack for 50 bucks with new pads, but it took a while, tried every online military surplus shop. The original Alice pack frame is getting pricey and harder to come by, that rothco frame is garbage.
The large ALICE pack can be adapted to almost any pack frame by inserting a section of 1/2-3/4” wooden dowel into the upper frame pocket as an anchor, then strapping or binding it to attachment points of a frame.
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The cracking problem is a thing with the military because the military focuses on maxing load out. For me, and most other users its not about maximum load out. Its about comfort and organization of moderate loads. 20-30 lbs max. IMHO, the military should go back to the old school plywood packboard for stuff like mortars, ammo, jerrycans, etc. Something like that, but with a suspension system like the MOLLE 2. Before you collapse with laughter, consider that there are USED ones that are still as good as new. And a lot more economical.
The frames didnt crack from overuse-they cracked from grunts tossing them from vehicles, as we have always done. Unless you are regularly tossing these frames from a height of 5', with 80 lbs of gear in them, they likely wont crack. I have been running a medium ALICE pack on a 1606 MC frame for 7 years now, no cracks. I am also not tossing it from the back of a 5 ton.
Exactly, I never actually saw the FILBE frames crack from actual use, hundreds and hundreds of Marines in my battalions using them with no issue. Don't throw them from trucks. They are incredibly robust, they hold up to being hung off the sides of LAVs and AAVs and hundreds of miles of hiking.
The whole filbe frame straps and kidney belt system is absolutely phenomenal. We used to load our flaks and kevlars inside our pain packs plus everything else, must have been 80-90lb on our backs, and I could loosen the shoulder straps completely and hang the entire load off just the belt alone for miles. An ALICE pack has nowhere near the volumetric capacity to carry 80lb, so the suspension is more than adequate for lesser loads and will probably never crack
With the original MOLLE frame that the ALICE pack will fit on, if you know where the weak spot is before it cracks, then reenforce that area on both sides of the frame front and back with aluminium straps that will fit into the channel lengthwise and bolt through the slots, I have done it,,works great, thanks for sharing your thoughts.
That's a great idea, The first generation frames do work well if not cracked.
What Pete said. Works like a champ on the 1606AC frame.
So.... for you enterprising DIYers..... try what I did.... take 1/2 copper pipe... cut to the width of the Alice pocket for the frame... solder a cap on each end... place this inside the pocket. Attach this to your frame using the webbing straps for the Molle frames... attaching the lower part of the pack to the frame as you would with the alice frame... mine has not failed and it works great without having to modify the frame....
Do you have pictures?
Exactly what I did, with ½" PVC and it will handle more 5han I can carry. Later on, I received a gift of a worn out ALICE frame, so I just drilled the rivets and took it apart, used 2 ½" PVC elbows and short length of pipe at the bottom ends for a spacer to keep it rigid and tied it on with hvy dty zip ties. Its solid as a straight ALICE frame and I can quick detach the pack, which has some LC2 straps on it, for off frame use.
@@springbloom5940 got pics?
@@andrewlee4078
I do not. Well... I do, but not posted anywhere. Basically I took the outer hoop of an ALICE frame(just an aluminum tube 'U') and ziptied it to a MOLLE frame; like piggybacking an ALICE frame on a MOLLE Its a little more involved, but thats the gist. The other mod OP is talking about is just a single length of pipe or wooden dowel (even a stick) placed laterally in the frame pocket and then hung by straps or rope, to the top of the MOLLE frame; kinda like a coat hanger. Very simple and easy to improvise, but not as secure.
I found a MOLLE plastic frame at an estate sale and paid double for it to help the family. I didn't need the backpack since it was worn out, but just the frame, shoulder straps and waist belt. I bought a lot of strapping, clips and created a system to run a strap through the existing day pack shoulder straps, secured it to the frame, and two more straps holding the bag. I carry camcorders and gear in the bag. Tripods, sliders, etc. are secured on either side with shorter straps. The frame is very adaptable! So now I could carry one pack at a time into the boonies and set up a complete movie set if I wished, but probably not. I see a lot of potential for those frames.
Man you definitely know your stuff! Thanks! I'm curious on the product you create!
I run a Down East Ind. 1609 open perimeter frame on my medium ALICE. It’s far more flexible and far less prone to cracking than those larger frames. It cannot be used on a large because they don’t have the strap attachments at the top of the large bag, but it will work in the medium that has the attachment points for the shoulder straps at the top of the bag.
Man you made this way harder than it has to be. Go to Tactical Tailor they sell welded aluminum frames and an awesome suspension system that smokes the MOLLE system.
...for $125.00
After much trial and error (And 7 trashed frames) the way to go on this seems to be a Carbon Fiber infused adapter plate for the much more available (and cheaper) 1603 frame. I am currently have the proper molds made for the plate and should have something soon.
There is a redesigned frame that is reinforced at the stress point. The problem has been solved even though it is harder to come by these versions. I was fortunate to get one, but it was a little more
expensive.
is that a "down east frame" and does it have a NSN# cast into the frame ?. thank you)
BUGOUTSTUFF Yes it is the DEI- P/N 1606 MC model nsn 8465-01-632-1085. The open slots at the stress points are now filled in solid.
you are correct...much thanks, ill post a note on the video
BUGOUTSTUFF Any ideas on when we can buy the redone frames?
My 1606 frames worked just fine for the past 9 years. No cracks
I've had three of this 1606 USMC LBE/ILBE/FILBE frames break and had the pack snap on a ruck march.
very interesting :) Really looking forward to seeing the updates on this subject!
I don't know where you live but I live in the Western United States Alice systems are plentiful you go to any military store you can outfit analysis system easy Molly Molly to anything you want so stuck with me these guys saying they're not enough around over here in the last we have a pretty much military store in every city just yesterday I looked for a Alice pack Shelf they're $4.25 and they have a crate of them that's right at crate and that's like over 1,000 pack shelves the pack frames they have at least 20 now the tax themselves you got to go to another city because our city doesn't have right now they're out but all I do is look up another City's military surplus store a few miles away and then probably have it Stop Believing the stuff he saying he have trouble finding it the reality from Phoenix all the way to northern Idaho and along the coast of Western United States of Western Washington all the way through Oregon and California I found no problem finding Alice pack gear so look up military surplus store and then type in California Nevada Oregon Phoenix Colorado Utah Idaho and find a local listing here cuz they'll ship it to you
Any updates on frames
Did you ever get the new frame developed?
Couldn't the 1606 frame be strengthened with schedule 40 pvc and zip ties? Placed with the stress points in the middle. Seems there should be SOME method of reinforcing it on its weak points
Anyone know what packs fit a "U" formed frame?
The problem isn't the weight. The problem is, when you cut something, it becomes more likely that additional 'cuts' will spread out across that same structure. The modding process literally undermines the structure of parts of the 1603 frame, making it more prone to cracks. You'd need to attach the ALICE pack to the 1603 frame without cutting into it.
If you can find one the out of production Coleman Ram-X frame fits the large Alice and so do the Molle straps and waist belt. That is how I modified my Alice and find it works with no problems.
1/2 in PVC 11inches, 2 ea end caps goes into frame pocket.
1/2 in PVC 13 1/4 inches, 2 ea end caps goes outside of frame pocket.
Join PVC with cable ties and tie to MOLLE frame.
It would be so badass if someone made an ALICE/FILBE compatible frame that can be easily removed and folds out into a cot
Did they ever make the new generation frame for the alic pac?
I use filbe on alice frame ftw plastic frames will always break and the alice frame is a versatile work horse
I got a large molle. Realised it is really.big. is there a way I reduce its size. I tried the compression strap to get it little compact. Any ideas ?
get a medium Alice bag
All that to find out there's no remedy or there's one coming someday
I have medium ALICE. Do you have an update.
Great! Thanks :)
Build PVC rack boom finish
Rothco made in China vs Lowest Bidder made Where? 🤐
Why if these companies know this problem can come up with solutions to better enhance their product. Many retirees love their bags.
Coleman ram x pack frame ?
Use a peak 1 frame I did that back in 1981
Just buy a new frame of your choice and reinforce key areas with fiberglass/epoxy laminate, like repairing a boat, simple.
So, do you have a finished product yet?
Fiberglass and carbon fiber to the rescue as usual
Any update on this?
Thanks
I have a rothco frame,,,,,,and they suck, substandard.
Cheap Chicom knockoffs...mine fell apart on the first outing. Lasted a day and a half. Cobbled it together to get me through 2 more days. Got back to my vehicle stripped the pack off and drove over the frame and pitched it in the trash.
@@veinspect after much searching finally won a bid on an USGI alice pack for 50 bucks with new pads, but it took a while, tried every online military surplus shop. The original Alice pack frame is getting pricey and harder to come by, that rothco frame is garbage.
Lol