Can You Fish on Someone Else's Property? Lehto's Law Ep. 5.196
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- Опубліковано 3 лип 2024
- There is a lot of confusion about whether you can legally fish in a river or stream that runs across private property. I explain when you can and cannot. This is Michigan law.
www.lehtoslaw.com
THe proper response if you were to be told by a property owner that it was private property but go ahead and enjoy the fishing is to thank them and ask if they prefer you to catch and release or would they like to share the catch? If the latter, the fish you give them should be cleaned and ready for cooking. It's called respect and showing appreciation.
Also it should go with out saying don't leave any trash behind and pick up any that was left by others. This is the number one complaint against fishermen on popular fishing areas.
Another good video👍.
I had a very similar situation on property in NH where the property I owned included both sides of a river and I had no problem of respectful folks fishing till someone without any form of permission on posted property got injured and took legal action against me for their broken leg while walking alone the river. As you can imagine I put an abrupt stop to any activity on my property without written consent from me and the wildlife officials would ask anyone on my posted property for their written proof. It always seems that there's one jerk to ruin things for others.Just thought I'd share
I always float a log down a private stream to check if it navigable.
Sometimes the log makes it just fine but the toilet paper gets caught up on fallen braches.
I live in Connecticut and we go through this one all the time. We have a private beach on a lake, in Summer people show up and park then try to use the beach. Sometimes these people say that they used to come here as kids or that a relative used to live here and when we explain it to them that it is private they normally just leave. Occasionally we get the more belligerent visitors who say that we can't keep them out because we don't own the water, I will mention that the beach is about 1/3 of a mile from the only public road entrance to the property and that property is marked private at that entry along with the only entrance to the beach being marked as well as a final sign at the beach parking to sand/grass area. We have to tell these people that they crossed and parked on private property to get to the water and they need to leave. Only once did we ever have the police called, and the person trespassing was the one that called (her boyfriend) the police officer. The police officer tried to get us to back down from our position but quickly backed down when we suggested that instead of just letting the woman (his girlfriend) come and go as she pleased, we (the land owners) had changed our mind and wanted her arrested for trespassing. His attitude changed quickly and after a brief yet animated conversation with her she decided that she would not claim fault but would no longer come on our property uninvited.
ALWAYS ask permission. The first rule of life is, "Don't be a jerk."
@Smoke DeGrasse Tyson Because there parents told them how special they were, and they believed them.
In regards to boat lemon laws, remember that boat is an acronym. Bust Out Another Thousand.
They are a lot of fun but they are expensive pains in the ass too.
I owned a house on a trout stream. It was one thing for the fishermen to stay in the creek or on the bank, but it was quite another for them to litter or park in the driveway or to come up to the house and stare in the windows.
In Virginia and many other states, if it is a navigable waterway, you do not own the bottom of the river. The state owns the land up to the average high water mark. The exception is if the land goes back to a kings grant.
(I’m a licensed surveyor, so I have had to deal with this.)
Also, the state of Virginia determines if the creek or river is navigable. There is a list.
In Ohio, the water in streams and rivers is State property. The river bottom or creek bottom can be private property. By me there is small public cty. park that is next to a big stream. The stream is actually on private property. I can legally fish in that stream from the bank in the park. I can legally be in a kayak or small boat upon the water and fish there. But I cannot go in the water in waders and fish as I would be standing on private property and trespassing. I found out the hard way.
I think that the state should own all property from the high tide mark from 1 side to the other side. What is preventing the owner from dropping rocks in the creek/river to keep people from taking boats up and down it
In Oregon you can walk/float down streams or rivers from public to/through private property BUT you have to stay in the water & below the bank's high water mark that is below permanent vegetation.
The Michigan law, while appearing complicated, makes perfect sense (notwithstanding a more precise definition of navigable). I live on a 600 acre lake in Michigan, and my property lines extend into the water until they intersect with the property lines from my neighbors. This is why I have a right to build a dock into the water, as long as it doesn’t cross one of those extended property lines
Steve, you missed an opportunity to use that new fancy whiteboard.
I know...I was expecting a crude [or not-so-crude] sketch of a river, with the banks and riverbed labeled. Give Steve a chance to use those colored markers...
Thank you for clarifying! I'm in SW Michigan and use many of the waterways and this has always been somewhat confusing, especially regarding what is navigable. Even more important was the clarification on trespassing toward the end of the video. :)
As an older person I shudder when I hear "DNR"
That's how it is in Texas too. Our state owns a lot of public access points (mostly at bridges) for people to park and launch boats. We dont really have issues with people tying up to trees but people will get mad if you walk across their property to get to a fishing spot.
Along the California coast on State Highway #1 are pastures with cattle that graze between the Highway and the ocean. This Coast line is really good for abalone so the farmers put up collection boxes for a trespass fee to access the ocean across their land
If the state owns all the water flowing over my property, shouldn't the state be liable for all flood damage expenses?
My brother found a piece of land for sale on a private pond. He wanted to fish this pond all his life, but recognized that he couldn't by law. Once the For Sale sign went up, all bets were off. An Officer approached him while he was fishing, and his simple answer to him was: "I'm not gonna buy the land if the fish don't bite!" Priceless, but putting that For Sale sign on the land, opened it up for anyone to visit the land to see if they wanted to buy it, and therefore could no longer be classified as posted. The Officer walked away with a big smile and was laughing hard by the time he got to his car. 3 hours later, the Officer returned with his fishing pole, once his shift ended.
Let me tell you about when we put a 'For Sale' sign on the house, police wouldn't arrest anyone for breaking and entering any more.
Hey, if it gets me a sale, I'd let a potential buyer see if the pond is well stocked. It's a legitimate question about the land.
Very Interesting!
I never thought about the technicalities of what constitutes a "navigable" waterway.
I never would have guessed that floating a log is the standard.
In Texas
If you’re on the water and able to get there without trespassing to get on the water then you are allowed to be there and fish
Sounds very similar to Michigan
Now I know way more than I ever thought I wanted to about water laws in Michigan.
But it was a fun way to be educated about Michigan water laws, was it not?
Property owner allowed me and my dad fish . We only fished during daylight hours. He was having trouble with idiots leaving their trash . Shooting bottles and stupid things like that . One day when my dad had a day off we decide to go fishing there ,the man had fenced it up and blocked it up good . Don't blame him a bit . That was back in the 70's . Lost daddy in 1998 at 72 years old .
Some people just have to ruin it for everyone makes it hard to find private property nowadays
the reason many landowners limit or prohibit fishing and or hunting . because some slobs (often rich city dwellers) drink make mess,cut trees, leave unattenderd fires , trash etc
True. It's always the few that ruin it for the many.
Private property in different parts of the country are defined with different access rights. In New England it has to be marked no trespassing otherwise is open access, in the south is assumed its trespassing even if its not marked. The states and the law differences lead to confusion.
Saber, a correction, you stated "in New England". That means you are lumping together CT, RI, MA, VT, NH, and ME. You couldn't be further from the truth. Each of the New England States have different trespass laws.
you also stated "The states and the law differences lead to confusion.".... Well yes that's why each state operates independent of each other. It's also why a person traveling from one state to another needs to know the laws pertaining to that states, and specifically laws pertaining to an activity a person is planning on participating in, such as hunting, driving, fishing, open carrying a gun and many other things...
A reasonable adult can be expected to make reasonable decisions about the land they’re on. Going through an open gate, for example, will be considered trespassing in the eyes of the law.
@@rackemwells
In the state of Maine, you can hunt on unposted properties. It is suggested that you contact the land owner but it isn't the law. One reason is that if you are hunting, on a large tract of land, you could, possibly, pass over 3 or 4 property lines. In such a case, contacting the land owners would be impossible.
Tony Hemingway I’m under the impression that would apply to most situations in most states. Relating our two comments together, I’d suggest that unposted property, in the eyes of the law, would still be considered trespassing if you jump fences or go through gates even if open or unlocked. I’ve actually had trespassing charges, I was definitely trespassing, and pled guilty to them. The judge told me the list of reasons I could have pled innocent and gotten off, then asked me why I plead guilty. I basically said something along the lines of “sir, I don’t care to skirt around things or the law, I knew I shouldn’t have been there and didn’t need a sign to tell me so” He was VERY impressed with my honesty and let me off with 1 day probation. Lol Obviously I could have plead innocent and out of the 4 or 5 reasons he told me I could get off for it, all of them applied. I was only 18 and was TERRIFIED of the judge. After I pled guilty and he told me I could get off for it, he also said “son, I can put you in jail right here today, why would you come into court without a lawyer” which is when I told him I didn’t think it seemed right, I knew I was in the wrong being where I was and I WAS guilty of it. Judges hear lie after lie after lie, sometimes in certain cases, a little honesty goes a long way! Ironically, I was later hired by the railroad I was trespassing on!! I later ran into the officer who issued the trespassing ticket and we got a laugh out of the situation now that I was an employee there.
I fish the St. Joe river south of the dam in Niles and went all the way to St. Pats park and had checked the boundary waters regulations for Mi. and In. And I was told I couldn't smoke in my John boat because the river was private property owner by the park. I ignored the request to leave and had the cops called on me and the police tried to intimidate me into leaving and I politely asked the officer to contact the DNR and asked what they thought he should do. He actually did and then had to promptly explain to the park director that interfering with an angler is a criminal offence and that he should leave me alone which he wisely did.
True story?
In NY, fisherman were allowed to trespass our land for a short distance as the bridge crossed the creek , staying within 10 feet of the stream. I understood this to be like the pursuing a wounded deer rule. Some would start bonfires and litter. Also, if a trespasser was injured by your bull, you were liable(All bulls must be chained). If your livestock was in the road, you were liable. The mushroomers were the worst.
This is the best info video that I've watch so far from you.
. Great information. Thanks
Great video, I live in SW Michigan, I kayak, and cross country ski "when the ice is safe" on creek, rivers, and wetlands, your video clears up what I have always be telling people, I just about had the law right
Considering most early canoes were dug out logs, a canoe is a fair stand in for "will a log float down the river"
In Louisiana, the navigable water standard is much the same. We have a lot of rivers which are used by "tubers". These are people who float down the river in an inner tube, followed by their ice chest, in an inner tube. Drunken tubers wandering up on the river bank and into people's yards have been a problem, so trespassing enforcement is very strict. Since tubers don';t tend to have their wallets with them, the sheriff takes them to jail, where they have to wait for someone to bring their ID, and some money. It pretty much ruins your weekend.
Aww, CRAP! My friends & I ARE the drunken, wallet-less "tubers", followed by our designated "cooler-meister", second-in-command ONLY to the "Tubemeister" (me) with the "cooler-tube" rope on his ankle But! We do NOT go on to private property!
Your presentation is clear and the law makes sense. As a civil engineer, this topic is further complicated by “Waters of the U. S.” (WUS) The definition is pretty subjective. Any navigable water is considered WUS as far as I know. If the waterway appears on a USGS Topographic map, the USACE generally takes jurisdiction and declares the waterway as WUS. Ephemeral streams, which only flow for a few hours following a rainfall event, and even roadside ditches are mapped, thus become WUS. Disconnected or isolated waters may be exempt, but don’t count on it. Now, three or more ‘owners’ may be exerting rights on the watercourse. I’m stumped formulating a sensible question. Please comment.
N.B. WUS is an acronym made up by me.
I like how thoroughly and clearly you explain the law. 👍
You can get out of a stream in Michigan to go around an obstacle or dangerous condition. You must reenter at the soonest point possible. I keep a laminated copy of the actual law in the upper left pocket of my trout fishing vest.
Assuming you mean on a navigable river.
@@stevelehto
Yes, all designated trout streams in Michigan have already been determined to be navigable and are defined and color coded on maps by the DNR. Not saying there aren't trout in other streams though. Any legally accessible river or stream.
So people who say a no trespassing signs is necessary otherwise it's not trespassing means I can follow you into your house and not be trespassing if you don't have a no trespassing sign on your land!
Yes. Or you could picnic in my front yard. If I was on vacation, you could camp there.
In Maine you can cross unimproved property for purposes of fishing or fowling (hunting) to access any natural pond of over 10 acres.
Yeah, this really depends on state city and county laws. I’ve heard of some that say that so long as you do not drop anchor or do not, sure, you can fish navigable waters. Even if that stream or river crosses into someone else’s property. But here’s the catch, a lot of times even law-enforcement are unsure about those laws and rules. Which is not too uncommon actually. If I ever bought a piece of property with any water going through it the first thing I would do is have a lawyer research the laws so I know exactly what they are. Can people be on the water, can they fish from that water? Does your property come with soul hunting and fishing rates on your property? What rights do I have to not just the physical property, minerals and resources, but also the water itself?
I asked lots of times, when taking my son fishing in different states. I've only had someone say "no" once, and ...they asked me to return a fish to the water that I had in a bucket from another site. I just put the fish in, it's not worth any drama, or hurt feelings. I suspect he was not a sportman (lol).
Norman Graham I, personally would politely request that I be allowed to call a Conservation Officer (I’m in Indiana) about permission to release non-native fish. I would explain that both the fisherman and the land owner could be held accountable.
@@backdraft916 ...Yes! Even your "non-native" qualifier could be meaningless where just the transplantation of live fish from one body to another is illegal, regardless of species. As I recall in California it's illegal to transport live fish period.(Not counting from pet stores etc)
Next channel ... “Lehto’s log”
I used to commute from Leesburg VA to my office on the other side of the Potomac in Maryland using White's Ferry. At some point, the USCG decided that the ferry needed to be inspected. The ferry's owners argued that since the Potomac River is unnavigable downstream from the ferry at the Great Falls of the Potomac and upstream of the ferry at White's Ford* that the USCG did not have jurisdiction. The USCG sued (United States v. White's Ferry Incorporated, 382 F. Supp. 162 (D. Md. 1974)) and it went to the Supreme Court! I don't know all the arguments. Admiralty Law is somewhat of a black art. Anyway, the USCG won on the principle that navigability does not have to be contiguous. The current ferry is inspected and the operators are licensed by the USCG. The somewhat comical aspect is that they are required to pass a Rules of the Road test to operate a ferry that is 'steered' by two sheaves attached to a steel cable anchored in Maryland and Virginia. *Historical note, between 4 Sep and 7 Sep 1862, the Army of Northern Virginia crossed the Potomac at White's Ford on their way to the Battle of Antietam.
ran into that a year ago getting cable strung over the shenandoah comcast had to get a permit from the coast guard its a navigable water way 6 inches deep below a dam go figure .
An interesting addition to this topic would be treaty rights of Native Americans. I own both sides of an unnavigable trout stream in Northport, Michigan. I allow anyone to wade or fish our stream, so it has never been an issue, but our local Native American population probably enjoys additional hunting and fishing rights. It would be interesting to know.
The Army Corp of Engineers has jurisdiction over ALL Navigable waterways SOOOOO be careful as a land owner that you don't "step on their toes" by altering THEIR waterway. Such a act can cause you mucho heartache.
I had a problem a few years back with hunters putting up deer stands on my property without permission. Since I like my deer population I put signs up around my property perimeter that read " TRESPASSERS WILL BE KILLED AND EATEN! " Funny, haven't had a problem since..... LOL
We have a tradition of a yearly trip to Pine River and Pere Marquette River for kayaking, about the time all the trout and salmon fishers show up. I vaguely recall a plaque marking the place a landmark court case was decided about fishing rights in Michigan.
In Virginia, the state owns the riverbed, however there are exceptions to this where landowners were granted a 'Crown Grant' from King George II and King George III in the 1700s before the revolution. Those grants are passed with the title of the property. It comes up occasionally when a landowner has trespassing charges filed against people who wander into their property while fishing in a section of one of the rivers where a Crown Grant exists.
I have been harassed countless times for fishing from a boat in water which I had the right to fish. Numerous times the police were called, and every time, I continued to fish!
Lol I've been told I can't fish in front of a dock before. I was in my boat fishing. I was less than polite with my responses.
Could a MI landowner legally add rocks or trees to the "bottomland" on his property to render a stream un-navigable to keep people from fishing there, or does state ownership of streams prohibit intentional alteration? If so, would the state have to prove that the blockage was intentional, and not natural?
Thanks for addressing this interesting issue, as a MI resident raised in northern MI I never really understood this all. I too did a ton of trout, salmon and steal-head fishing as a young man. I never ran into a private property issues, but at least I now have a clear understating of the issues. Even though my fishing days are over, better lake then never to learn a things or two..
Great history lesson--and, it makes sense [the "navigable" test is something I've heard before, but not in the detail you've presented].
BTW, I'm binge watching your videos with abject joy.
My neighbor used to have this argument with spear fishermen every year. His step father owns land on both sides of a creek that runs behind our houses and people would wade the creek, spear suckers and throw them on the shore. If it weren't for the issue of throwing the dead fish on the shore, which attracts raccoons and other undesirable animals, and moving on he wouldn't have had a problem with it. By the way it's definitely not a navigable stream.
In Pennsylvania unless the stream of water starts on your property, the stream is considered a public road and anyone can be in that stream of water.
That does NOT include the banks, thus it is only a public road where the water is running. Thus if you are fishing you have to stay in the water. Other states have similar rules, thus in the early 1900s Mother Jones walked in a stream that went through a coal mine ao she could talk to the miners of joining the United Mine Workers. She was not trespassing by walking on the stream so the coal company could not charge her with trespassing as long as she was in the water.
Thus unlike Michigan, Pennsylvania permits you to walk on the bottom of a stream unless the stream started on that property.
This has been the rule of Pennsylvania since the days of William Penn who founded Pennsylvania in 1688.
Another topic that is popular on UA-cam is metal detecting and I've seen people wading in streams gathering the treasures or trash from the bottom. However, based on what you've just read, in the state of Michigan, regardless if the person is in a navigable stream, the contents of the bottom are not public and they are in fact stealing from the land owner if they are on private property.
If I was a land owner I would be worried about them getting hurt and sueing me.
Same in Virginia.. we still have landowners claim that floating through they're property is illegal. We also have the oddity of fish being legal to catch as long as you're floating the waterway. We run into some trouble when the waters are low and by floating you will certainly need to get out this trespassing.... Weird
Edit: all this supposed you're willing to be shot by a landowner who truly believes that not only are you trespassing by floating the river on "their" property and catching of fish constitutes theft... I had a landowner come out with a shotgun pointed in my general direction after he had seen I had landed a large pike (had no intention of keeping it) but to him he had every right to hold me at gun point until the game Warden (in this case that I hid it was a sheriff deputy close by when the call went in) arrived.
Now while picking routes to float I tend to stay away from what would be some great areas due to not being willing to risk my life to prove him wrong...
Here in Illinois the state owns the whole river and a 10' easement I believe. That is crazy to let 1 person control a RIVER. What's to stop them from filling their part up with rocks or other obstacles to stop fishermen?
In Missouri if a lake/pond was stocked by Missouri conservation agency with fish it is open to the public you can cross the land to get there to fish
I think the same holds true in Illinois.
That is not the law in Missouri and never has been. Do some research before posting something you heard. Your comment could get someone shot in the part of Missouri I live in.
Yes, thats a state by state. I had a condo in a posh colorado ski resort. The building property was on a 4 foot deep river rapids. You can wade if you were strong and tall. You can canoe if you were expert conoer. The association inquired. Law allowed for a 10 foot easenent both sides.
I owned land in rural Maine, Aroostook County. It was the same, but it was called shoreline zoning. An easement on eather side. The law got conplicated when beavers built a dam and a lake formed and the river changed course.
So can I take my boat into a private marina and fish there?
You all are lucky you aren’t a coastal state. The fishing question gets even more confused when dealing with a seacoast and tides.
Awesome video Steve!
I love fishing, very interesting. I guess to thwart folks from wading up your navigable stream, you could fell a tree across. I wish I had a river or stream on my property, I'd like to construct a small hydroelectric generator wheel...barring EPA intrusion, of course. Love the videos, Steve!
Be careful. I had 75 acres in rural maine. With a canoe able river on one side. Across the river, was owned by a logging company. The beavers build a dam, causing a lake form and altered the couse of the river significantly. (Act of nature) The river kinked into my land. The logging company believe the river itself was the boundary and the river established i new boundary. I insisted it was was marked by latitude and longitude of 2 points. But my land on the other side was landlocked. Thd logging company own the total land access. I can use a helicopter or swim across the river. My remedy for land acess was the shoreline easement law.
(The logging company stripped the land clean. My land was a hardwood forest)
Okay you win. I'm not moving to Michigan. Don't really matter, Michigan's governor says you can't go out anyway.
If the lake or pond is on and surrounded by your property, they would have to trespass to gain access to it.
Unless you come in by helicopter..
However in some jurisdictions repeated use over time can create a public easement.
There are a ton of streams in my area. You can always tell when an out-of-towner moves in because they are the ones that try to run nets/fencing across "their" river to block the kayakers and fishermen.
Wow I know a lot of work went in to that bit of information good job Steve.
I would love to read the emails you get on a daily basis. They have to be at least as entertaining as your videos
Unless, of course, you are a sovereign citizen. In that case you can do whatever you want.
You mean like the police, who constantly break the law without repercussion, I agree.
@@hippo-potamus Dude, you are seriously bent.
I've fished + boated on the St. Joseph from Colon "lower lake" which we discovered was actually a wide part of the river- surprise! Didn't catch anything. I did catch and release bass whilst bank fishing under the next downstream bridge. Those were a lot of fun using ultralight tackle. Always enjoy your interesting vids, so thank you. Regards, TL.
1:57 I **always** ask permission to do most ANYTHING if it's someone else's property... about the only time I wouldn't ask is if I wanted to take photos of flowers or wildlife, or if I was cleaning up returnables along the road; even there, though, I still try to ask in situations where I feel excessively uncomfortable/wary about it.
Wow.. this Fascinating! I'm not sure if Michigan lawmakers are insane or genius.. Obviously the linchpin to all of this is the states ownership of water.
I work retail. Anyone that says "ive been buying/getting this/using this service for years" is automatically wrong in my head now.
FYI Out here in Montana, there is a huge difference on many rivers between the normal flow and high water flow.
The public are allowed to access any part of the river and river bank up to the high water mark.
Makes stopping and/or fishing on the river bank possible. Just to show some difference from another state.
Thank you for the detailed explanation, it was a more difficult search to hear an informative discussion on this subject than I had expected. Well done, now what about Maryland.....
How do you define a log?
While I am generally conservative and much in favor of property rights I bemoan the fact that in the United States the largely European concept of "The right to roam" is unheard of.
Look it up in Wikipedia.
Your right to roam ends at my property line.
Your rights do not supersede my rights.
In Ohio there are a lot of 'easements' to allow access to waters across private land to waters. The primary reason originally was to allow livestock to drink the water. In Columbus, Ohio all residents had access to the Scioto River across city land to 'harvest' ice in the winter. Ohio also allows you to cross lands around obstructions including low head dams. So you can drag your canoe around down trees as long as you are not loitering on the private land.
I used to own a small farm in Oregon. A ditch passed through the property, and water flowed for several months each year. Sometimes the ditch and part of the surrounding field flooded. The ditch and field were several miles from a year-round river. The ditch and field were designated salmon habitat because salmon could potentially swim there during a flood. As you may imagine, salmon habitat carries with it, many liabilities and restrictions.
This topic cries out for a whiteboard!
What if you conduct the Navigable Log Test, Does the Log need to be Registered...
Not unless you are log rolling in commerce!
@@stevelehto I remember Log Rolling being quite Lucrative in South Sudan Circa, 2009/10.
In California, for the purpose of recreation, including swimming, boating, and fishing, (sun bathing or hiking is not included) the person is not trespassing if they can get to the high water mark without trespassing then they can boat swim or fish anywhere at or below the high water mark. The water way must be navicable for only part of the year.
This video was really informative. Thank you, even though I don't live in MI. I like your videos, keep it up. If I ever come to MI and get in trouble, you'll be my first call. ☺
That is because you have the smarts to understand what he said. For others who are stupid and didn't understand it it didn't explain shit. Read the comments, there are people still confused. Goes to show how clueless some people can be even when there is a video they saw that just explained it.
"I'm not fishing, I'm navigating ".
_Lehto's Law: A Fish Called Miranda_
@@BTFOOMNY
I had a good friend in the CIA
had a stutter. Cost him his life.
My favorite lawyer talking about my ongoing problem. Steve, I own 5 acres on the Rifle River up near West Branch. The trespassing is a huge problem. And they almost always react just like you opened with. Responses like "I've been coming here forever!", "There's an easement!", "You don't own this land!", "I can be here if I'm fishing!" and so on. I once allowed a couple to fish the river via my property. The next day I was contacted by my neighbors. That couple decided to move on to their property and got caught attempting to steal and committing vandalism. No more exceptions. The source of the problem for us is that the property boundary has a road owned my be neighbors, a mix of several canoe liveries. The property is otherwise empty and unmarked, but there is a steel gate that is closed when not in use by the canoe companies. But it makes a great access point to the river. But the fishing is better on my property. So they are using the neighbors road to access my property. Thanks for the video.
Thank you steve ,for your light
Define log. A Lincoln log? A redwood log?
Hey, ya beat me to it, I was gonna say the same thing
Better Call Lehto.
Steve, that actually is how the law works. The “no trespassing” sign counts as a trespass warning, which would otherwise be conveyed verbally by property owner. After a trespass warning has been given - either by sign or verbally - then that person has committed criminal trespass if they step on the property. This gets tricky though because an officer usually won’t arrest unless they witnessed the criminal trespass take place. I have ranch property and have had the law explained to me by various LEOs.
Further, to be convicted can be even harder if that person pleads not guilty and attempts to prove that there was no intent to trespass. This is easier than it seems with navigating river land. All I have to say is I attempted to stay behind the gradient boundary line (and thus be on public property) and the court will usually find you not guilty barring unusual circumstances (eg saying you were fishing in police report but had no pole)
You just made my day! I just bought in berrien county both sides of s designated Trout Stream! 460' wortrh!
Could the landowner put a fence across the stream, leaving two feet or so above the water to discourage all but those willing to get wet to pull their boats under the fence?
No. They cannot interfere with the navigation on the river.
Reading the comments is funny. Bringing up shit he explained and getting it wrong.
My God, I would fall asleep during any court case he was arguing.
Like the guy you wrote above that putting up a "for sale" sign meat that the property "
I don't completely remember river rights in Indiana, but I know things get more complicated on the Ohio river, since it borders Kentucky and Indiana and state jurisdiction gets complicated, plus it was previously a major shipping route. River transportation was a huge deal before railroads were common, so State and Public use makes sense.
I am from south west Michigan..and I ask my dad about this awhile ago.he explained it just like the gentlemen did.and yes I can be tricky at times...you will have run ins with people who will try to tell you differently..call the dnr.dont argue about it.and just because you don’t see no trespassing, doesn’t mean a thing.state owned property is cleared marked in the state of Michigan..☺️
Steve, you used to do 1-2 of these broadcasts a week. Lately, you have been doing closer to two per day. While the content is great and interesting, how do you still find rime to practice law??? Also, what does the r-shirt mean.
CC Filson is an outfitter. Fishing-related.
how large of a log? is there an official state log? :P
I was kinda hoping you'd talk about needing a license to fish on your own property though...
In my state(consult atty.)it's very similar. The low watermark seems to be the standard.
Drift boats(look it up)are very common. A draft as little as 2 in. perhaps less is real.
They pass through nicely. Most folks are amicable about their property rights. RESPECT my property, I'm not much concerned. Littering is a BIG deal or degrading the land in any way, then it makes a problem for me. Violaters are warned once. Ask permission first.
Here in Washington state it was explained to me by a fish and wildlife warden. You can fish lakes, rivers and streams in the water and on the banks up to the "normal" high water line. The term normal is the part that got me. I have a place that is surrounded by private properties and we get people coming in all the time for fishing and swimming that always do the get mad and say i have been doing this for x# years. I always say back "so you have broke the law before".. They don't seem to like that much.
In Florida they park their cars underwater.
That's an urban legend.
the property i own has no lakes or streams however i could see the biggest issue for land owners who have waterways in them and people wishing to fish these water ways is the fact that most people are inconsiderate pigs. i love to fish but it seems like every time i go fishing i am always bringing back several garbage bags full of trash that other people leave behind.
Great explanation. Thank you. I'm in Michigan, a stream in Lapeer county (which very much appears to be navigable) leaves a series of small interconnected lakes and travels less than 100 yards to a public road and exits under the road through 2 culverts and continues on. For years the public would deposit watercraft here from the road and go upstream to fish the lakes. The lake front home owners never liked this and apparently a new owner of the land on either side of the stream that exits the lake didn't want people accessing the lake via the stream so posted a couple signs in the water next to the road stating that entering the water was trespassing and that they would be prosecuted. This has been successful at keeping fishermen and kayakers off the lake but I believe illegally so. In public forum discussions regarding this situation no one can provide information defending these signs or trespass other than heresay. We are pretty good with the navigability question regarding this stream and accessing the lakes. Our question is "can one access a navigable stream or even a lake that goes up next to a road, from the road or side of the road"?
My former landlord put his skeet range by his shore. Trespassers didn't stay long.
That was a good one..💪 But It has to be posted "and market the fire zone perimeter" at least if it is a navigable waters!