I am really enjoying your presentations, to the point, very clear, and very good looking restoration. Best Regards, you are a Breath of Fresh Air.....Cheers from Central Florida, Paul
@@georgebell7103 Dear George, your videos are very informative to me, I just bought a 13" South Bend from 1939 and I am anxious to get up and running....it sure is heavy.....Thank you for making this wonderful videos and sharing with us out here in U Tube land, Sincerest Wishes, Paul
Superb video. What a difference between your 13 and my 1941 13. I lost it in the Camp Fire but was able to replace it with a modern Clausing Colchester 15. Well done sir!
Hi sir, i have another question for you, do you know where i could get new trust bearings for my spindle shaft? The thicker one is missing the ball assembly for god knows what reason. Thanks!
I purchased all my bearings and such from Mac-Master Carr They have a good well organized web site for your search. Also you should consider an upgrade from ball to roller thrust bearings. Measure the old bearings carefully to make sure you get the right sized replacement. Let me know if I can help further. PargoLongAgo@Yahoo.com
I buy and restore vintage tools have 6 atlas lathes, 5 with timken bearings and one with bronze bushings, I've noticed the bushing lathe still product better finish, but my Logan has roller bearings now nothing beats them for finish
It’s a lot easier to press the bearing expander flat tight up against the spindle where it goes holding the little piece of wick in place and slide the bearing over it.. this way the wick won’t be knocked off..
George, another great video.. can you do a video on adjusting the bearings on your spindle ? also what did you use to clean the pulley ? thanks again, Joe
Yes, I have a video planned on all the tuning and adjustments. Cleaning the cone pully was done under power a sanding paper strip. I think I started with 250 grit and finished with 400 grit. Be careful not to sand down the crown.
Thanks for the video series George! Extremely well done and a great resource. To remove the bull gear from the spindle, did you heat the gear (like you said you did on its installation), and/or did you use a press of some sort? I have the same vintage 13 as yours, with the D1 spindle. What are you thoughts on the importance of removing the bull gear if it becomes a real challenge? Do you think being able to remove/inspect/clean the headstock end bronze bearings is critical? Thanks!
I think I pressed the bull gear out…. Banged it out. I don’t recall if I heated it or not, probably did. I really don’t know what is critical. My videos show what I did. What you do is dependent on so many things….. how much you want to take apart, how hard it is, as you mention. How dirty, how worn the machine is… etc. send me an email, we can talk on the phone if you wish.
@@georgebell7103 Thanks so much for the reply and offer to discuss. After looking at how good the internals of my outboard bushings look, I have decided to leave the bull gear in place. The ability to inspect the internals of the head stock side bushings doesn't seem to be worth the potential risk of damaging or scratching the spindle during the remove/install process. Thanks again for getting back to me.
A pointer for others who have the older version of the 13" spindle - with the take-up collar sandwiched between the spindle gear and bearing cap, and a rear thrust washer instead of a thrust bearing. If your spindle gear is stuck fast like mine was (it took probably a ton or ton-and-a-half to crack loose best guess), I had success by first turning the take-up collar all the way 'inboard'. Then I ground down the points of a cheap claw puller to fit into the small space between the gear and collar. After that, you can insert a piece of stock that has been center drilled and shouldered to fit inside the spindle for the puller to act against. Otherwise if you have a hydraulic press with wide enough uprights for the spindle to fit, you could maybe try sandwiching ~1/4" thick angle iron into the gap to act against the gear whilst you press against the shaft. ...Just be careful not to let the spindle drop when it finally cuts loose.
Hi, George! I am rebuilding a 10K for personal use as a hobbyist novice machinist. Your videos on the gearbox helped me a great deal with mine, which is almost identical. If you ever sell your lathe, I'll make a quick trip from Atlanta for it! I hope to see additional videos about its use. Thanks for your insight.
I can see how unpleasant surprises could certainly complicate things. Fussy to forget about it taper pins seem daunting as does press fit parts, but beyond that it seems like with good instructions each sub assembly puzzle might be kind of relaxing in a way to work with once cleaned up. My incessant transport thoughts have moved to the idea of sandwiching a 2 x 4 (or 6, 8 or 10) between the pallet and the machine at the base and rear legs then pilot drill and lag bolt it all together as a form of wishful thinking (kind of like wooden training wheels) should the machine wish to tip onto one of it's sides while being winched down the inclined trailer. I also thought of using a pallet jack (if God willing I get one tomorrow) to kind of help it slowly roll as it's being winched down the incline of the flat bed. There is a sigh of relief after safely and successfully moving a very heavy object that I have yet to achieve in life, and I hope I can earn it without too many shocks to the heart and added grey hairs. - Thanks
I was watching your video again trying to see if you mentioned the oil tube pressed into the casting where the bushing/bearing with the hole at the bottom that the tube went inside during assembly. The rear tube on my 13" is flush, I think who ever owned this lathe prior to me didn't wait for the click and forced it down flush. Is there any way to get to the tube from the bottom of the spindle housing? They give a part number for a replacement tube but I'm thinking the old tube must not be usable after you get it out, maybe damaged removing it, I don't know but I'm hoping you do. Thanks
Paul Greenlee: You could possibly make a small dedicated spring type "tube puller" that goes through the tube and expands slightly. You would then "jack" the tube completely out with a small shop-made slide hammer. Remove the puller from the tube and if the tube's not damaged reinstall it to the proper depth. I've never done this but it should work if the small tools are properly made. Good luck.
@@ellieprice3396 Thank you for the suggestion, I believe it would work fine as well. I'll give it a try. I'm dealing with a left and right shoulder joint replacement or course not at the same time. As soon as I get back working on it I will give an update. Thank you again.
@@paulgreenlee190 You’re welcome. There’s also another way to remove pressed-in hollow bushings with a closed oil sump like the South Bend. First remove the oil wick, then completely fill the sump with oil to the bottom of the bushing. Find or make a small shaft that has a slip-fit in the bushing you wish to remove. Place the shaft in the bushing and tap sharply with a mallet. Since oil is non-compressible the bushing will be jacked out by hydraulic pressure from beneath. Refill the bushing with oil as necessary, keep tapping and it should come out without damage. Press the bushing back in to proper depth, replace the wick and you’re done.
It here are several good videos on this topic already, also South Bend parts manual has good instructions as well. I plan on a video showing all leveling and adjusting. It should be available in a few months
You'll never get "good solid pressure all the way around" a brass BUSHING like that and still get LUBRICATION into it. And it'll NEVER be "round" unless its "adjusted" to whatever "dimension" it was initially machined in. Plain bearings are good for "axial" loads but HAVE to have clearance for lubrication and if you expect the lubricant to take up the clearance, you'd better be using the recommended grease and plenty of it on a frequent basis. I see lots of lathes in "home workshops" and "restorations" of old discarded (by the previous owner(s) lathes that suggest that a lathe is a nice, clean and "tidy" tool to own, operate, etc. Not hardly IF its being used and maintained properly. And the "cheaper" the lathe the more of a mess its going to make when used for work beyond its capacity and/or the more its worn out and/or if its not serviced and lubricated properly "by the book". You don't see MACHINISTS in the "old days" wearing aprons to keep chips off their "good clothes". They're wearing them to keep oil and grease flung off parts and tools from staining their "work clothes". If you've never had real oil/grease stains on your clothes because you've never been a mechanic/machinist, you have no idea what I'm talking about and the fact that your home laundry appliances don't remove oil and grease RESIDUE no matter WHAT laundry detergent you buy in less than a couple months of at least weekly washing. That's why real mechanics/machinists typically use uniform services and/or wear coveralls and/or have "work clothes" probably better than your "shop clothes" so when they get that "major spill" dousing of oil or grease that happens to all "pros" eventually, there's enough material there and good enough material to "soak up" as little oil/grease as possible before they hit it with some solvent or brake cleaner, etc. And so what does get soaked in gets "released" into the other laundry very gradually, lol. I hate to break it to the would-be/aspiring/DIY/home/amateur "mechanics" and "machinists" out there, but if you haven't ALWAYS been a "gearhead" and no so much "liked" getting dirty but didn't give a sh!t about getting dirty when you were "working on" or "doing" something mechanical and didn't even think about it or notice until later when Mom or Dad or some other family member started razzing you about it and didn't let THAT bother you either, you ain't gonna make it as a "mechanic" or "machinist" until you learn to "love" getting dirty. The same goes for "minor" injuries like cuts, scrapes, bruises etc. If you've ever been working in your "shop" on something and were completely oblivious to the readily noticeable amount of some vital fluid - mechanical or biological - on you or your clothes until you happened to spot it later or it was otherwise brought to your attention and your response was "Hmm. Wonder when that happened." and you honestly can't remember when you something "mechanical" came into contact with your body to the point of drawing blood or leaving behind its "fingerprints" of oil, grease, brake fluid, etc, you're ALREADY a "mechanic" or "machinist". If that's not you and you believe you can have a "clean" shop and tools and a "productive" shop and tools and be able to buzz out there for a few minutes or a few hours and both use it and keep it cleaned and do more of the former than the latter OR you're maybe a little "sensitive" to pain, blood, oil, grease, dirt, rust and having your patience tested by inanimate objects old/worn enough to need "work", you might want to rethink your choice of "hobby" and for DAMNED SURE go work in a REAL SHOP before you even THINK about doing it as a "business". The phrase "its in my blood" is used constantly to describe people's affinity for all kinds of things. Only with mechanics and machinists and other "trades" and farmers and ranchers is it REALLY TRUE. Because we/they end up bleeding pretty frequently and "rub some dirt in it" is a joke to us/them. Why would we have to rub some dirt in it when our hands and whatever it is that did the damage were already dirty? And forget about "preventing infection". It's too late by the time you see the damage if you're one of the above. And small doses of infection just strengthen your immune system. Everybody knows that. P.S. Make sure you're okay with "shop-scented" laundry, too. I mean ALL of your laundry. Unless you want to be spending a lot of money on new "work clothes" OR empty "cleaning" cycles and detergent to get the "shop smell" out of the washer between your laundry and the rest of it. Or you want to pay for a uniform service. Its up to you. Just don't expect your spotless "shop" and "clean as a whistle" and "restored" tools to stay that way if you're actually using them more than cleaning them. They ain't gonna avoid their own "wounds", either. That's why "pros" buy "expensive" and even "overpriced" quality NEW tools or quality USED tools they can put right to work and never expect used to look like new and know new turns to used as soon as the tool finds the shop UNLESS its "surplus" and unneeded and just stays in the packaging gathering dust. And even those are "used" as soon as the packaging gets dusty/oily/greasy. How would that happen in a drawer of a nice, expensive tool box in a clean shop? You are new at this, aren't you?
I am really enjoying your presentations, to the point, very clear, and very good looking restoration. Best Regards, you are a Breath of Fresh Air.....Cheers from Central Florida, Paul
Hey, thanks for the nice comment
@@georgebell7103 Dear George, your videos are very informative to me, I just bought a 13" South Bend from 1939 and I am anxious to get up and running....it sure is heavy.....Thank you for making this wonderful videos and sharing with us out here in U Tube land, Sincerest Wishes, Paul
@@ypaulbrown thanks a lot
Superb video.
What a difference between your 13 and my 1941 13.
I lost it in the Camp Fire but was able to replace it with a modern Clausing Colchester 15.
Well done sir!
Sorry bout your loss. Thanks for the nice comment
Amazing videos, best teacher in the world! I have a 9 south bend still currently restoring... keep up the good work :)
Hey, thanks for the nice comment, you should find this series helpful in your 9 inch SB restoration
Hi sir, i have another question for you, do you know where i could get new trust bearings for my spindle shaft? The thicker one is missing the ball assembly for god knows what reason.
Thanks!
I purchased all my bearings and such from Mac-Master Carr They have a good well organized web site for your search. Also you should consider an upgrade from ball to roller thrust bearings. Measure the old bearings carefully to make sure you get the right sized replacement. Let me know if I can help further. PargoLongAgo@Yahoo.com
I buy and restore vintage tools have 6 atlas lathes, 5 with timken bearings and one with bronze bushings, I've noticed the bushing lathe still product better finish, but my Logan has roller bearings now nothing beats them for finish
Thanks for your comment. I have wondered how modern bearings would compare to the old style bearings.
Hi George. Thank you so much for the video. I just picked up a 1977 South Bend 13 and it needs to be torn down and cleaned up. This will help a lot!
This series of videos features a 1978 vintage machine. Yours may be identical Thanks for the nice comment
It’s a lot easier to press the bearing expander flat tight up against the spindle where it goes holding the little piece of wick in place and slide the bearing over it.. this way the wick won’t be knocked off..
Thanks for the comment… always other ways to get things done.
George, another great video.. can you do a video on adjusting the bearings on your spindle ? also what did you use to clean the pulley ?
thanks again,
Joe
Yes, I have a video planned on all the tuning and adjustments. Cleaning the cone pully was done under power a sanding paper strip. I think I started with 250 grit and finished with 400 grit. Be careful not to sand down the crown.
Thanks for the video series George! Extremely well done and a great resource. To remove the bull gear from the spindle, did you heat the gear (like you said you did on its installation), and/or did you use a press of some sort? I have the same vintage 13 as yours, with the D1 spindle. What are you thoughts on the importance of removing the bull gear if it becomes a real challenge? Do you think being able to remove/inspect/clean the headstock end bronze bearings is critical? Thanks!
I think I pressed the bull gear out…. Banged it out. I don’t recall if I heated it or not, probably did. I really don’t know what is critical. My videos show what I did. What you do is dependent on so many things….. how much you want to take apart, how hard it is, as you mention. How dirty, how worn the machine is… etc. send me an email, we can talk on the phone if you wish.
@@georgebell7103 Thanks so much for the reply and offer to discuss. After looking at how good the internals of my outboard bushings look, I have decided to leave the bull gear in place. The ability to inspect the internals of the head stock side bushings doesn't seem to be worth the potential risk of damaging or scratching the spindle during the remove/install process. Thanks again for getting back to me.
@@joet3064 Great, thanks for your comment
what is the woodruff key slot at the very end of the spindle for next to the take up nut..??
I don’t know for sure, I suspect it is there for stuff that may be attached to that side of the spindle.
Amazing knowledge
Hey, not so much, but thanks for the nice comment
I watched your video to learn how to remove the belt shaft. I want to replace my leather belt with and endless serpentine belt.
@@johnjacob757 Hope the video was helpful. There is also a video in this series on the belt install if you re interested
Thank you so much, what a great resource
Thanks
Hello George. Do you know what the proper lubricant is for South Bend Lathes with "Bronze Box Bushings" circa 1929? Thx.
light oil for bushings
A pointer for others who have the older version of the 13" spindle - with the take-up collar sandwiched between the spindle gear and bearing cap, and a rear thrust washer instead of a thrust bearing. If your spindle gear is stuck fast like mine was (it took probably a ton or ton-and-a-half to crack loose best guess), I had success by first turning the take-up collar all the way 'inboard'. Then I ground down the points of a cheap claw puller to fit into the small space between the gear and collar. After that, you can insert a piece of stock that has been center drilled and shouldered to fit inside the spindle for the puller to act against.
Otherwise if you have a hydraulic press with wide enough uprights for the spindle to fit, you could maybe try sandwiching ~1/4" thick angle iron into the gap to act against the gear whilst you press against the shaft. ...Just be careful not to let the spindle drop when it finally cuts loose.
Hey, thanks for your comment
Hi, George! I am rebuilding a 10K for personal use as a hobbyist novice machinist. Your videos on the gearbox helped me a great deal with mine, which is almost identical. If you ever sell your lathe, I'll make a quick trip from Atlanta for it!
I hope to see additional videos about its use. Thanks for your insight.
Thanks for the nice comment... not selling quite yet... some day though...Wisconsin
Hi George, Very good video! Did you work for the factory or a repair service? Thanks, Ron Bianca
Nope, just an old guy that likes these machines
Very nice! What is the purpose of filling the pulleys with grease?
Thanks for your comment. Grease is the required lubricant for the pulley. The pulley turns on the shaft when the machine is in back gears.
Please do one more video :) Adjusting the bearings! I have not been able to find one anywhere! Thanks
we will get to that
George, between the head stock, apron assembly, and gearbox which in your opinion is the most challenging to tear down and reassemble?
Gearbox was the most difficult for me. However my machine was in good shape. I think it will depend on what problems, abuse, or ware you may find.
I can see how unpleasant surprises could certainly complicate things. Fussy to forget about it taper pins seem daunting as does press fit parts, but beyond that it seems like with good instructions each sub assembly puzzle might be kind of relaxing in a way to work with once cleaned up. My incessant transport thoughts have moved to the idea of sandwiching a 2 x 4 (or 6, 8 or 10) between the pallet and the machine at the base and rear legs then pilot drill and lag bolt it all together as a form of wishful thinking (kind of like wooden training wheels) should the machine wish to tip onto one of it's sides while being winched down the inclined trailer. I also thought of using a pallet jack (if God willing I get one tomorrow) to kind of help it slowly roll as it's being winched down the incline of the flat bed. There is a sigh of relief after safely and successfully moving a very heavy object that I have yet to achieve in life, and I hope I can earn it without too many shocks to the heart and added grey hairs. - Thanks
Hey, let me know how things turn out.
I was watching your video again trying to see if you mentioned the oil tube pressed into the casting where the bushing/bearing with the hole at the bottom that the tube went inside during assembly. The rear tube on my 13" is flush, I think who ever owned this lathe prior to me didn't wait for the click and forced it down flush. Is there any way to get to the tube from the bottom of the spindle housing? They give a part number for a replacement tube but I'm thinking the old tube must not be usable after you get it out, maybe damaged removing it, I don't know but I'm hoping you do. Thanks
I did not have an issue with the tube. Send me an email if you want to discuss....
Paul Greenlee: You could possibly make a small dedicated spring type "tube puller" that goes through the tube and expands slightly. You would then "jack" the tube completely out with a small shop-made slide hammer. Remove the puller from the tube and if the tube's not damaged reinstall it to the proper depth. I've never done this but it should work if the small tools are properly made. Good luck.
@@ellieprice3396 Thank you for the suggestion, I believe it would work fine as well. I'll give it a try. I'm dealing with a left and right shoulder joint replacement or course not at the same time. As soon as I get back working on it I will give an update. Thank you again.
@@paulgreenlee190 You’re welcome. There’s also another way to remove pressed-in hollow bushings with a closed oil sump like the South Bend. First remove the oil wick, then completely fill the sump with oil to the bottom of the bushing. Find or make a small shaft that has a slip-fit in the bushing you wish to remove. Place the shaft in the bushing and tap sharply with a mallet. Since oil is non-compressible the bushing will be jacked out by hydraulic pressure from beneath. Refill the bushing with oil as necessary, keep tapping and it should come out without damage. Press the bushing back in to proper depth, replace the wick and you’re done.
How do you adjust the bearings????
It here are several good videos on this topic already, also South Bend parts manual has good instructions as well. I plan on a video showing all leveling and adjusting. It should be available in a few months
Great very clear presentation. Well done!
Thanks
Thanks.
Thank you for the comment
You'll never get "good solid pressure all the way around" a brass BUSHING like that and still get LUBRICATION into it. And it'll NEVER be "round" unless its "adjusted" to whatever "dimension" it was initially machined in. Plain bearings are good for "axial" loads but HAVE to have clearance for lubrication and if you expect the lubricant to take up the clearance, you'd better be using the recommended grease and plenty of it on a frequent basis. I see lots of lathes in "home workshops" and "restorations" of old discarded (by the previous owner(s) lathes that suggest that a lathe is a nice, clean and "tidy" tool to own, operate, etc. Not hardly IF its being used and maintained properly. And the "cheaper" the lathe the more of a mess its going to make when used for work beyond its capacity and/or the more its worn out and/or if its not serviced and lubricated properly "by the book". You don't see MACHINISTS in the "old days" wearing aprons to keep chips off their "good clothes". They're wearing them to keep oil and grease flung off parts and tools from staining their "work clothes".
If you've never had real oil/grease stains on your clothes because you've never been a mechanic/machinist, you have no idea what I'm talking about and the fact that your home laundry appliances don't remove oil and grease RESIDUE no matter WHAT laundry detergent you buy in less than a couple months of at least weekly washing. That's why real mechanics/machinists typically use uniform services and/or wear coveralls and/or have "work clothes" probably better than your "shop clothes" so when they get that "major spill" dousing of oil or grease that happens to all "pros" eventually, there's enough material there and good enough material to "soak up" as little oil/grease as possible before they hit it with some solvent or brake cleaner, etc. And so what does get soaked in gets "released" into the other laundry very gradually, lol.
I hate to break it to the would-be/aspiring/DIY/home/amateur "mechanics" and "machinists" out there, but if you haven't ALWAYS been a "gearhead" and no so much "liked" getting dirty but didn't give a sh!t about getting dirty when you were "working on" or "doing" something mechanical and didn't even think about it or notice until later when Mom or Dad or some other family member started razzing you about it and didn't let THAT bother you either, you ain't gonna make it as a "mechanic" or "machinist" until you learn to "love" getting dirty. The same goes for "minor" injuries like cuts, scrapes, bruises etc. If you've ever been working in your "shop" on something and were completely oblivious to the readily noticeable amount of some vital fluid - mechanical or biological - on you or your clothes until you happened to spot it later or it was otherwise brought to your attention and your response was "Hmm. Wonder when that happened." and you honestly can't remember when you something "mechanical" came into contact with your body to the point of drawing blood or leaving behind its "fingerprints" of oil, grease, brake fluid, etc, you're ALREADY a "mechanic" or "machinist".
If that's not you and you believe you can have a "clean" shop and tools and a "productive" shop and tools and be able to buzz out there for a few minutes or a few hours and both use it and keep it cleaned and do more of the former than the latter OR you're maybe a little "sensitive" to pain, blood, oil, grease, dirt, rust and having your patience tested by inanimate objects old/worn enough to need "work", you might want to rethink your choice of "hobby" and for DAMNED SURE go work in a REAL SHOP before you even THINK about doing it as a "business".
The phrase "its in my blood" is used constantly to describe people's affinity for all kinds of things. Only with mechanics and machinists and other "trades" and farmers and ranchers is it REALLY TRUE. Because we/they end up bleeding pretty frequently and "rub some dirt in it" is a joke to us/them. Why would we have to rub some dirt in it when our hands and whatever it is that did the damage were already dirty? And forget about "preventing infection". It's too late by the time you see the damage if you're one of the above. And small doses of infection just strengthen your immune system. Everybody knows that.
P.S. Make sure you're okay with "shop-scented" laundry, too. I mean ALL of your laundry. Unless you want to be spending a lot of money on new "work clothes" OR empty "cleaning" cycles and detergent to get the "shop smell" out of the washer between your laundry and the rest of it. Or you want to pay for a uniform service. Its up to you. Just don't expect your spotless "shop" and "clean as a whistle" and "restored" tools to stay that way if you're actually using them more than cleaning them. They ain't gonna avoid their own "wounds", either. That's why "pros" buy "expensive" and even "overpriced" quality NEW tools or quality USED tools they can put right to work and never expect used to look like new and know new turns to used as soon as the tool finds the shop UNLESS its "surplus" and unneeded and just stays in the packaging gathering dust. And even those are "used" as soon as the packaging gets dusty/oily/greasy. How would that happen in a drawer of a nice, expensive tool box in a clean shop?
You are new at this, aren't you?
lots of time spent on this comment