When I was in the navy and later on at a large logging operation my lathes had no dial for threading. Just close the split nut and thread away backing out by simply reversing the apron. Still to this day when I am on my friends lathe I don't use the dial as his has a habit of when engaging the dial and the split nut isn't completely closed ruining the part. I never did like setting up an indexing head. Likely due to not using them often enough, LOL. I so love one off jobs like this. You really made this one look like it came this way from the factory so many years ago. Once again another great post from the one called "Winky".
@@WinkysWorkshop The last one at work was a Chez machine, 8 ft centers and a 16in swing with a 4 inch through chuck and gearbox that had a foot pedal that applied the brake and reverse at the same time. It was a bit quick so I used the handle. It was set up for 4 types of threads Round, Witworth, Metric and Standard. It had a tracer as well and just a real sweetheart. After being retired for a year I went back for a visit and it was a sad day I will never forget. The feeds were not working, they asked if I knew what was wrong. I lied and said no. 8 mechanics in the place couldn't see the broken spring type shear pin right in front of them. It was filthy, the ways were dry and the apron was so badly beat up from contact with the chuck that could barely be tightened either way. I was almost physically sick. The lead screw was round, right full of dirt and someone had greased it. A couple years later the business shut down. The fellow who bought the lathe at auction called one day about the reverse pedal. I went out and he had completely refurbished my old lovely lady..... New paint, freshly scraped ways and apron. New hand made gibs, the whole 9 yards. One of those tool posts like yours a new 6 jaw chuck and a lead screw and apron were all beautifully repaired. I did get a moist eye. I threaded a 2 " shaft for him showing both methods and have never been back as wishing for something that can't happen is a waste of time. Your old girl will outlast us both my friend. It was lathes like yours that made the pieces for larger machines like mine. So on and so forth. All that new upgrades you did bring it farther along and all you need for 2022 is put a DRO on it. Please don't as it wouldn't look right eh. Thanks bud, see you next post.
Not sure how i missed this one. Another great build. We are only limited by are imaginations and you have a vivid mechanical imagination and a great deal of patients. It takes a lot of build time let alone filming the whole process. THANKS FOR YOUR TIME.
Ok, after watching a lot of your videos, I’ve always thought you were a genius. This video proves it! Outstanding work! Thanks for letting us watch you at work👍😊
Bought my 9 South Bend like 25 years ago and lost my thread counter some place! so i bought one of those 3d printed ones on the net., it works but the one you built is a real piece of art. good job!
Yeah I live in OZ but the thing that impresses me is the brotherhood of man@@WinkysWorkshop --you and me are talking and we are the opposite sides of the world....kindred spirits-poles apart..i wish we could meet but my health is rubbish..E
Good work pushing through this. I appreciate warts and all filming. Things don’t always go well and I like to know that after hours of work - I am not alone... LOL. I failed four times for my first change gear and will likely fail some more. Thanks for sharing your content is always very good!
Thanks you sir. I have a lot of fun making the videos and most often I learn something to. I saw a guy use an acme tap like I tried to use the acme threads and it worked well but the price of an Acme tap was outside my budget for a one time gear. I'm glad I finally learned my indexing disks. Next up, making a gear... well someday I will. Thanks again for your kind words!
What a great project, and well made, I have seen many successful video's on this subject, but none have come as close to the real one like yours. Once my current project has finished, I intend to make 2 for the two thread types for my metric Boxford (Southbend Clone) Thanks for a great video
Cool, I would recommend finding somebody with the same lathe and make sure your gear diameter and number of teeth are the same. your welcome on the video!, thanks for watching!
The Logan is a much smaller gear although I suspect they would be interchangeable. Instead of the teeth on the gear being angled Logan mounted the dial at a slight angle. I made one for my 200 but as long as the lead screw is 8 TPI they should all be the same. Here's the gear I used. www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0026GXY1S/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1
Ha... thanks, glad you enjoyed it. It's obviously an older video. My hair is darker but this is a funny story. My wife convinced me to try that "touch of gray". She was so insistent that she grabbed me and the hair dye and did it for me. However she grabbed the wrong box any it turned it totally brown. I got a few comments in my videos like 'what did you do with winky?"
Hi from N Ireland. Enjoyed your video and your accent. Need to make one for my boxford but it has a 3mm pitch thread. So I have to work out worm gear. Thanks again.
Found out two gears needed 20 t and 21 t . Instead of numbers letters are used to index. A,B,C,D & E. There are charts online to work out the different combinations. Thanks
Great job on threading dial. I have one comment. After you saw cut the gear in the dividing head, I would have set up a fly cutter with a single tool profiled the shape of your acme thread and a larger diameter making your gear almost perfect. A malleable iron material would also cause less wear on your lead screw. Thanks for your videos.
I've done that single point cutter thing before to repair a gear on my Logan. It worked well but it was very slow going. The saw was fairly fast. Obviously the tooth profile is off although the profile of a standard gear is also off to acme threads. Brass would have been a good option although the gear is basically free moving with no load. I'd be surprised if anything will wear. Thanks.
I made one for my Logan too although I didn't make a video. I bought the gear which was much smaller. The gear is straight cut and the dial is slightly cocked to match the threads. I copied the original.
Do not forget that for making hobs a good source of quality steel is vehicle axles--cut of what you need--anneal it--cut your thread--machine the cutting teeth and then harden...Make sure you get the first revolution on your gear before you relax..Then its easy..regards E
I'm thinking I should have also milled 3 slots and ground the thread peaks down a little just in front of the cutting edge too. Thanks for the tip on the steel!
Go for it! I like steel the best but aluminum works well too. Technically the steel probably holds up better unless you have super high humidity. With that being said, I doubt I'd ever wear out a set of aluminum dials
Looks like some good old backyard mechanics, but sometimes that's the more down to Earth answer for some people. Nice work, but cover those ways when using emery cloth!
I am just starting out. I picked up a old 1957 Hercus lathe but by the looks i need a miil too. Would i be right in saying that. I love how you have just made something from nothing. Still trying to get little thing for the lathe. Would you say a chuck is important as thats one main thing i am missing. Thanks love watch you. Andy Perth Australia
Great job, looks very impressive. I'm going to make one for my grizzly. Have thought of putting a spring on the mount arm to hold the dial gear against the lead screw? Just a note.
The biggest challenge was figuring out my rotatory table and indexing. I found somebody on line with a similar lathe that told me the gear diameter and number of teeth.
Hello, ive only recently started really using my south bend 10 heavy lathe after 20 years. I love your videos and hope you are well. I've recently made my own dial indicator after watching your video and i have a question if you don't mind. Can you explain the numbering on the indicator regarding even and odd number threads please. I hope that makes sense.
No problem. Some dials are different but I think yours is made like mine. When cutting even threads (like 6, 8 , 10 TPI) you can engage the half nut on any mark. For odd threads (13, 5, etc) you can throw it in on any short or long line (or odd or even number) but you have to stay with whatever you start with during the threading process (always short or always long). The numbers are not important unless all the lines are the same length Short lines are even and long are odd. The numbers are needed for odd threads like 4.5 TPI or 2.5 TPI. I've never had a need to cut these weird threads so I left the numbers off my dial.
@@WinkysWorkshop It works out to a right angle triangle. example, if you have a lead screw with a outer diameter of 1". The angle=inverse tan X ((1/number of threads per inch)/1"). If your lathe has 1" OD and a Pitch of (1/8)= .125", the angle is 7.125 degrees. This value of 7.125 degrees is then scaled by cross multiplication with the width of the base of the dividing head to get the shim height. also you can tilt the dividing head to 7.125 degrees and slide some shims underneath.
@@dlfabrications - I think I should have had more math in school. I had one year of algebra in high school at that was it. I have no college education. Obviously I find ways around this missing education and quite often I learn math as needed. I actually had what I would call a job in engineering redesigning problem areas on machines in the printing industry. I guess you might say I know what is possible and find the answers as needed. It's intuitive vs learned I suppose. For instance I could probably look at a truss and closely estimate the load transferred to a section of the truss but would have no idea about the math.
@@dlfabrications - I watched your tail stock video. I've had the same problem on my Logan lathe. I bought a #2 tapered reamer and touched up the bore. It helped some but it's still better to have something to grab the tang. When I got my South Bend lathe it didn't have a spindle so I made one. I put two sets screws in the side of the spindle. It worked fantastic!!! Watch starting here for a few minutes. It shows the reamer and set screws install. ua-cam.com/video/vrXBkqC6ttc/v-deo.html
@@WinkysWorkshop Good job! I watched your video ua-cam.com/video/vrXBkqC6ttc/v-deo.html and it is a good idea. I thought my tailstock spindle was hardened steel. I just went to check this out and gave it a the file test. coarse file = mild steel, fine file = harder steel, any file no scratch = harden steel. It is mild steel so I will in the future either make a quill or modify the current one. Thanks
Winly this old tony does a e cellent tutorial on dividing head use....im rooting for ya, you and i are both new to the whole thing, this is the stuff thats FUN, figuring it out...that said like i said, check out ToTs vid on it
I'll have to check that out... Love Tony! I watched a very good one by Joe Pieczynski but he didn't cover the indexing plates. It's going to take a while to learn it good but I'll get there. Thanks!
Nice job, you solved some of the problems I am going to have when I make mine. The table you used at the beginning was it in the rotary table manual or somewhere else, mine is 90:1 also so should be the same although for a different tooth count and 3mm leadscrew.
Yes it was in the manual, the table was sold by Grizzly although the same table is likely sold by many. Look on page 17. cdn0.grizzly.com/manuals/h7527_m.pdf
@@WinkysWorkshop great thanks, yes i think they are generic tables sold by many, mines still in the box, its been hrre 6 months. All i know is its 90:1 so the same table should work if its not in my manual.
Hi winkey can you tell us what the final width the teeth were cut to and how deep.. got the same lathe been trying to get the teeth right but I,m failing got the diameter and boss right it,s just the teeth letting me down..love the vids by the way
Sorry, I thought I included that. It was .080 but you could go slightly wider. The gear diameter was 1-5/16". I don't know if this is ideal but if you go larger the tooth spacing will be larger too. Oh... and just in case, the gear is 32 tooth for a 8 TPI lead screw. Thanks for watching!
I'm in the same position you are (were) in. I have a 1935 SB with 15" swing, 6 ft bed. How did you decide how many teeth were needed on your gear? Thanks for posting your work on this!
I asked a guy on facebook who has a SB 11 like mine to measure the OD and count the teeth on his gear. I'm sure you can do the math but that would be hard for me.
@@WinkysWorkshop Thanks for your reply. I just was told by a guy on a machinist forum that it needs to be 24 teeth, and of a pitch to match the lead screw. Thanks!
Could you explain the way you decided what the gear tooth count should be? My lathe was missing the counter. I found a used one that was from a totally different machine. Just wondering how to calculate if it will be accurate.
Yeah... I found somebody with a similar lathe and had them measure the diameter and count the teeth. I'm positive there are ways to calculate what is needed but I'd have to give that a lot of thought. If I was you I'd find somebody with a similar lathe and do the same.
You need to talk to my wife about that. She said, let me help you dye your hair. She said it was that stuff called "Touch of Gray" but it was her hair dye.
I would like to build a tread cutting dial for my Lablond lath thst I picked up and wanted to know how did you know what diameter to cut the stock and the depth of cut to get the right gear size for your indicator? Was it something you looked up and if so are all the ratios the same for all the lathes? Sorry, I'm new to Machining now that I'm retired. love your videos and stay healthy since we are locked down.
I cheated :o) I asked somebody with a South Bend lathe what the diameter and number of teeth were. With that being said, if you have a 8TPI lead screw I think 32 teeth will work. Gears are confusing plus this is not a normal gear. On the plus side, it doesn't drive anything so it's forgiving.
Winky, I would recommend that you demonstrate the finished product at the Beginning of your video, so that we can understand what youre making. That's what Norm would always do. Thnx
Good idea! I guess I figured anyone watching would know what the threading dial is for. HOWEVER... I found out via some of the comments that I didn't completely understand the way the dial works. This guy does a good job at explaining although he lost me on fractional threads (like 11-1/2" TPI). Thanks for the input! ua-cam.com/video/jbRcs_Hhtuw/v-deo.html
@@WinkysWorkshop Norm would always show you in the begining the item he wanted to teach you how to make. That way you could see all the details and see how it works. I found it very instructive.
Nice job on the build. However, from 60 years of machining experience I can tell you never, never leave the wrench in your chuck! When you feel you have to take your hand off the Chuck wrench take the wrench out of the chuck.. I know everybody says you would never do it but I can't tell you how many times I have seen people turn the machine on with the wrench in the chuck and it can be quite a surprise. Nice job otherwise, very creative methods.
@@WinkysWorkshop Hi, I'm retired and spend my days in my shed. I usually watch you and other machinists in the morning and try to do some actual work in the afternoons on my crappy Chinese lathe and other machines I have bought cheaply over the last several years. At the moment I'm working on making a Gyroscope toy for my grandson, his birthday is on Friday 8th (12 y old). He's very intelligent and loves science (wants to be a Theoretical Scientist), I can barely spell it!
This is funny, I never listed a video as a premier video. You tube just said, your video will be premiered on your home page so I thought, why not? Now I'm thinking I should have saved it for an extra special video... I hope it doesn't disappoint!
That's really impressive Winky. I like your style! One question however, when you attempted to make the first gear you used brass or bronze, why did you decide not to use brass for the second gear and instead use steel ? Although you won't be using it all the time a steel gear onto the leadscrew is bound to cause much more wear than the bra gear would have.
I used brass on the first gear because it cuts easier. Good point, I agree brass would be better for wear but most lathes use steel on their original threading dials so I'm not worried. I think maybe I ran of of brass of maybe just because it was cheaper.
Just passing the time..........I got so used to cutting Metric threads by leaving the half nut engaged all the time and winding the chuck and saddle back on my Imperial leadscrewed 1930 Colchester Bantam lathe that I just cut threads that way for Imperial pitches too......I just can't be bothered to disengage the half nut and do it the old way and adding a threading dial is not something I need to do anymore.
@@WinkysWorkshop It was just a necessity as I have an Imperial leadscrew and that is the only way to cut Metric threads. Over the years I got tired of watching the threading dial go round to the spot I wanted and engaging the nuts so that is what I now use all of the time......threading is done at 100 rpm so reversing the screw is not a problem and I do it with handle in the spindle end anyway. I wouldn't advise anyone to run up to a shoulder and quickly reverse the spindle......that takes split second timing, experience does count. There is a device called a single tooth dog clutch that is incorporated in the beginning of the screw cutting gear train mechanism and it allows instant stopping of the leadscrew without stopping the spindle, especially when doing Metric threads, and you don't lose synchronisation of leadscrew to spindle. The geartrain and half nuts remain engaged all the time to maintain the threading position.....you can thread at 300rpm with carbide up to a shoulder without having a mishap. This was designed by a guy.....I think it was Martin Cleeve but maybe wrong..... in the UK magazine Model Engineer back in the 70's.
@@gangleweed - Interesting. I'll bet the clutch is lathe specific. Thanks to you I will likely lose sleep tonight trying to imagine how to stop instantly at 300 rpm. I'm kidding although quite often I avoid looking at a proven design until I have an idea how I would do it. Most the time a proven design is better but every now and then my approach is much better . Thanks!
@@WinkysWorkshop The design is probably applicable to most lathes and it basically consists of disconnecting the spindle itself from the gear train but keeping the gears engaged to one another. It's a small one tooth dog clutch that connects or disconnects the spindle gear to the spindle it rotates on. On most lathes there is a fixed gear on the spindle that meshes with the first stud gear of the gear train. It's quite clever how it works but it would take an essay to explain it in detail. In operation a lever arm connected to the dog clutch is pushed off by a rod on the saddle as it nears the end of the thread stopping the saddle immediately......then with the half nuts still engaged you wind the leadscrew back with a handwheel attached to the right hand end of the leadscrew.....the dog clutch ensure the spindle will take up the drive at exactly the same spot as one pitch in either Imperial or Metric is one turn of the screw.
Oh... Well I tested it to some degree. I'm not sure why some have numbers. I just put lines on mine. Even numbered threads can throw in on any line and odd can only throw in on short or long depending on what you start with... But I do need to test it more.
@@WinkysWorkshop They have numbers for helping with cutting "half" threads like 11½ tpi pipe thread (engage on 1,3, or alternatively on 2,4, depending what you start with) and "quarter" threads like 3½"BSW ( 3¼ tpi ) or 5" BSW ( 2¾ tpi ), pick a number and engage on that number only. You could also use the numbers for cutting two-start or four-start threads. But if you don't need to cut such obscure threads I don't think you need the numbers.
This one will only work for imperial threads (whitworth & american). Threading dials only work for "native" threads; i.e. imperial threads on an imperial lathe, or metric threads on a metric lathe, not both. (Unless you use a "Metradial" but they seem pretty rare.)
As Eric says there are metric thread dials for metric lathes, but they are more complicated. This is a case where the metric system of dividing by 10 isn't a help. The metric thread dial has to have gears inside to acomidate the different metric threads. The imperial inch thread dial is simpler because many inch threads are progressive and are an even fraction of the lead screw pitch. There are inch threads that must be cut like metric threads without the half nut being opened because they aren't an even fraction of the lead screw pitch. But the thread dial is handy even when cutting metric threads on a imperial machine. If you are threading to a shoulder, engage the half-nut on a specific mark on the dial (like "1" or a sharpy mark) and make your first pass. When you reach the shoulder back out the cross-feed while opening the half-nut and then stop the spindle. As the lathe spindle stops you will notice that your mark on the thread dial hasn't moved much past where you disengaged it. Now reverse the spindle and as your mark comes back to where it was, engage the half-nut and back the carriage up to your start point and stop the lathe. Repeat until the thread is completed.
Cool... I knew I could not thread metric without a gear change and about leaving the half nut engaged but I did not know about the metric being more complicated on a metric lathe. Thanks for explaining.
@@WinkysWorkshop Based on what I see come up on eBay occasionally metric threading dials tend to come with a selection of gear wheels that will each let you cut a subset of metric threads. e.g. for a 6mm pitch leadscrew lathe the dial will come with 14, 16, 18, 20, & 22 teeth gear wheels and a dial numbered 1-8. The 14T gear lets you cut multiples of 1.75mm pitch threads (that is 1.75, 3.5, 7, 14mm pitch) engaging on lines 1 or 5. 16T gets you 0.25, 0.75, 1. 1.5, 1.6, 2, 3, 4, 6 & 8mm pitches. 18T lets you cut 0.225, 4.5, 9mm. 20T gives 1.25, 2.5, 5 & 10mm pitches. And the 22T gear gets you 5.5mm and 11mm pitches. The threading dials have a table showing what numbers to engage on, what gear to use etc. I haven't used one but it loks like a right proper faff! Import metric lathes seem to omit most of the gears and tell you not to disengage the half nuts for those threads. e.g. if it's a 3mm pitch leadscrew the complete set of gears would have been 28, 32, 36, 40 & 44T but probably only 36T & 40T are supplied as that covers the most (common) pitches(the 0.25 thru 8mm series and the 1.25 thru 10mm series above) with the fewest gears. If you've read this far you'll be glad to go back to imperial tpi :-)
Isn't that something! Ha. I can't believe you are the only one to point that out. That was a home made dial somebody gave me. The gear didn't mesh very well and it was poorly made but it was nice to have as a model. The gear diameter and number of teeth were right.
Sounds good. To be honest I didn't understand how it all worked, this was a first. I really don't see much advantage to posting as a premier video. I probably won;t do it again.
I hate premieres, they fluff my subscription listings with vids I can't watch... Please don't use the premieres... I always watch your vids unless I unsubscribe due to premiere postings. Not a threat, just fact.
Truthfully I had no idea how this all worked. I won't be doing it again. I had no idea I would be live. The video will remain like all my other videos however. I agree, the premier thing is a gimmick.
@@WinkysWorkshop Just watched the video and wanted to say it was great, that dial should serve you well. Hope I didn't come across the wrong way but premiers are just a waist of space. Really love the job you've done on the SB lathe, hope to see more on it, thanks!
@@larry527az3 - No problem, I totally agree with you. I can not see a premier as a positive in any way - Thanks on the south bend, I'm excited to put it to use.
When I was in the navy and later on at a large logging operation my lathes had no dial for threading. Just close the split nut and thread away backing out by simply reversing the apron. Still to this day when I am on my friends lathe I don't use the dial as his has a habit of when engaging the dial and the split nut isn't completely closed ruining the part. I never did like setting up an indexing head. Likely due to not using them often enough, LOL. I so love one off jobs like this. You really made this one look like it came this way from the factory so many years ago. Once again another great post from the one called "Winky".
Yeah... it's hard to reverse like that when the lathes does not have a brake. I guess it does look original!
@@WinkysWorkshop The last one at work was a Chez machine, 8 ft centers and a 16in swing with a 4 inch through chuck and gearbox that had a foot pedal that applied the brake and reverse at the same time. It was a bit quick so I used the handle. It was set up for 4 types of threads Round, Witworth, Metric and Standard. It had a tracer as well and just a real sweetheart. After being retired for a year I went back for a visit and it was a sad day I will never forget. The feeds were not working, they asked if I knew what was wrong. I lied and said no. 8 mechanics in the place couldn't see the broken spring type shear pin right in front of them. It was filthy, the ways were dry and the apron was so badly beat up from contact with the chuck that could barely be tightened either way. I was almost physically sick. The lead screw was round, right full of dirt and someone had greased it. A couple years later the business shut down. The fellow who bought the lathe at auction called one day about the reverse pedal. I went out and he had completely refurbished my old lovely lady..... New paint, freshly scraped ways and apron. New hand made gibs, the whole 9 yards. One of those tool posts like yours a new 6 jaw chuck and a lead screw and apron were all beautifully repaired. I did get a moist eye. I threaded a 2 " shaft for him showing both methods and have never been back as wishing for something that can't happen is a waste of time. Your old girl will outlast us both my friend. It was lathes like yours that made the pieces for larger machines like mine. So on and so forth. All that new upgrades you did bring it farther along and all you need for 2022 is put a DRO on it. Please don't as it wouldn't look right eh. Thanks bud, see you next post.
Not sure how i missed this one. Another great build. We are only limited by are imaginations and you have a vivid mechanical imagination and a great deal of patients. It takes a lot of build time let alone filming the whole process. THANKS FOR YOUR TIME.
Your very welcome. This particular project was a learning curve for me... the rotary table indexing disks were new to me.
You did a great job. I’ve got a 6” rotary table myself. I love it.
Thank you sir
Ok, after watching a lot of your videos, I’ve always thought you were a genius. This video proves it! Outstanding work! Thanks for letting us watch you at work👍😊
Wow, thanks! I'm going to print this comment and frame it so I can look at it ever time I screw up! Ha Thanks!
Bought my 9 South Bend like 25 years ago and lost my thread counter some place! so i bought one of those 3d printed ones on the net., it works but the one you built is a real piece of art. good job!
Thanks... I saw those 3d printed ones. I'm guessing they would work well. Amazing technology!
That was a lot of work. Nicely done!
Yes it was! But it was fun learning
Nice build, this will be a great add-on for you.
Thanks for sharing.
For sure! Thanks
Very clever solution with the Rotary table!
Thanks
Enjoyed that a lot cobber--watching how different blokes get around problems is enthralling..E
Thanks, I'll bet you are in Australia! Good to hear from you .
Yeah I live in OZ but the thing that impresses me is the brotherhood of man@@WinkysWorkshop --you and me are talking and we are the opposite sides of the world....kindred spirits-poles apart..i wish we could meet but my health is rubbish..E
@@iancraig1951 Sorry to hear about your health. Thanks!
Well here I am again, picking up tips before I mangle some steel to make a thread dial. Once again a great video. 👍🏻
Thanks
That Threading Dial came out Great 👍
Thank you sir!
Like how you just go for and get it done!👍👍👍
Thanks
Absolutely brilliant job, turned out perfect, thanks for sharing
Thank you! Cheers!
Good work pushing through this. I appreciate warts and all filming. Things don’t always go well and I like to know that after hours of work - I am not alone... LOL. I failed four times for my first change gear and will likely fail some more. Thanks for sharing your content is always very good!
Thanks you sir. I have a lot of fun making the videos and most often I learn something to. I saw a guy use an acme tap like I tried to use the acme threads and it worked well but the price of an Acme tap was outside my budget for a one time gear. I'm glad I finally learned my indexing disks. Next up, making a gear... well someday I will. Thanks again for your kind words!
I know two things for sure, your left handed and a hell of a machinist.
Great job.
Thank you sir
What a great project, and well made, I have seen many successful video's on this subject, but none have come as close to the real one like yours. Once my current project has finished, I intend to make 2 for the two thread types for my metric Boxford (Southbend Clone) Thanks for a great video
Cool, I would recommend finding somebody with the same lathe and make sure your gear diameter and number of teeth are the same. your welcome on the video!, thanks for watching!
Love this fellas way of approaching things.
You clever bastard you! Lol, excuse my language, you never cease to amaze me Wink. Great video, keep em coming.
Ha! Thanks!
That looked really nice.
Thanks
Good video! I have to make a thread dial for my 9" SB. Thanks for sharing and keep up the good work!
Good luck!
That turned out good Winky. Had me scratching my head at the beginning
Yeah, I saw a guy do it with an acme tap in the lathe and I thought it MIGHT work.
I have to make one for my Logan. Great video!!
The Logan is a much smaller gear although I suspect they would be interchangeable. Instead of the teeth on the gear being angled Logan mounted the dial at a slight angle. I made one for my 200 but as long as the lead screw is 8 TPI they should all be the same. Here's the gear I used. www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0026GXY1S/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1
fantastic work!
Thanks a lot!
Thanks for the link! I'll have to dig through the archives and find some other treasures. Mike
Ha... thanks, glad you enjoyed it. It's obviously an older video. My hair is darker but this is a funny story. My wife convinced me to try that "touch of gray". She was so insistent that she grabbed me and the hair dye and did it for me. However she grabbed the wrong box any it turned it totally brown. I got a few comments in my videos like 'what did you do with winky?"
@WinkysWorkshop that is a good story. I just thought it's a younger winky lol. I think my all time favorite is the board track car.
@@thercbarn5001 Well I was younger but my hair was still gray. Yeah, I agree, the car was the best.
@WinkysWorkshop it's an good. I'm 44 I don't know what's happening faster. Balding or grey!
Very nice work
Thank you! Cheers!
super cool video. nice work to. and I liked the gear cutting method, way to make it happen!
Glad you liked it!
Very nice mini project, i enjoyed it and learned new thing on the way :)
Thanks... I learned a lot on this project as well.
Hi from N Ireland. Enjoyed your video and your accent. Need to make one for my boxford but it has a 3mm pitch thread. So I have to work out worm gear. Thanks again.
I asked a fellow South Bend owner on FB to give me the OD and number of teeth. Easier than all the math
Found out two gears needed 20 t and 21 t . Instead of numbers letters are used to index. A,B,C,D & E. There are charts online to work out the different combinations. Thanks
Great job on threading dial. I have one comment. After you saw cut the gear in the dividing head, I would have set up a fly cutter with a single tool profiled the shape of your acme thread and a larger diameter making your gear almost perfect. A malleable iron material would also cause less wear on your lead screw. Thanks for your videos.
I've done that single point cutter thing before to repair a gear on my Logan. It worked well but it was very slow going. The saw was fairly fast. Obviously the tooth profile is off although the profile of a standard gear is also off to acme threads. Brass would have been a good option although the gear is basically free moving with no load. I'd be surprised if anything will wear. Thanks.
Thanks Winky! Nicely done.
Glad you liked it.
Nicely done sir.
Thanks!
Job well done and thanks for sharing. Later and all the best.
Thank you! Cheers!
Nice work. I need to build 1 for my logan at some point as well. Love the tilted rotary table idea
I made one for my Logan too although I didn't make a video. I bought the gear which was much smaller. The gear is straight cut and the dial is slightly cocked to match the threads. I copied the original.
18 hours!!! I may have to watch this "Premiere"!!!
Truthfully I had no idea how this premiere thing works. Apparently I will be live. Might be interesting.
Loved it! I enjoy your vids and explanations. I also like the unscripted feel. Keep em coming!
Thanks! Will do!
Do not forget that for making hobs a good source of quality steel is vehicle axles--cut of what you need--anneal it--cut your thread--machine the cutting teeth and then harden...Make sure you get the first revolution on your gear before you relax..Then its easy..regards E
I'm thinking I should have also milled 3 slots and ground the thread peaks down a little just in front of the cutting edge too. Thanks for the tip on the steel!
Good job boss,thank you for your sharing.
You're very welcome, thanks for watching.
Nice job!
Thanks!
Another great job Winky. Didn't I see you here just a while ago?
I'm everywhere ! Ha
It was very interesting. I enjoyed it and it turned out awesome!!! Thanks!!!
Thanks Danny!
I've got a 16×60 sebastian lathe I need a tread dail for the one that was on it was made from brass its eat up. Great job.
Go for it! I like steel the best but aluminum works well too. Technically the steel probably holds up better unless you have super high humidity. With that being said, I doubt I'd ever wear out a set of aluminum dials
stupid amazing. Great job man, Yeah I'm also afraid to drilling into the lathe
It really surprised me that there was no place to mount a dial.
Looks like some good old backyard mechanics, but sometimes that's the more down to Earth answer for some people. Nice work, but cover those ways when using emery cloth!
Thanks 👍 There is a stock gear that will work I'm sure... but where?
That was awesome and yes I learned alot,thank you so much !
Glad it was helpful! Thanks
Might help to use tailstock and center to support Acme cutter.
Beautiful lathe and thread dial.
I thought I did use the tail stock... but thanks!
I am just starting out. I picked up a old 1957 Hercus lathe but by the looks i need a miil too. Would i be right in saying that. I love how you have just made something from nothing. Still trying to get little thing for the lathe. Would you say a chuck is important as thats one main thing i am missing. Thanks love watch you. Andy Perth Australia
Thanks for watching. And good luck finding a chuck.
Nice great job!
Thanks!
Well done
Thanks
I loved the first approach, with some tweaking I really think it'd be a viable method!
Great work over all, looks better than bought!
Thanks, it was also a good way to learn my rotary table and indexing wheels too!
Great job, looks very impressive. I'm going to make one for my grizzly. Have thought of putting a spring on the mount arm to hold the dial gear against the lead screw? Just a note.
Thanks! The spring would work. I was surprised my lathe did not have one. Your grizzly came without one also huh?
Winky I have always known the brass adjustable arms on your rotary table as Sector Arms.
Thanks Dave, you can tell I'm more of less self taught.
great job just great
Thanks!
You had to have really put some thought in that idea!
The biggest challenge was figuring out my rotatory table and indexing. I found somebody on line with a similar lathe that told me the gear diameter and number of teeth.
Wow, that was excellent and something my lathe could use. Wonder if that is possible on my small 8.5 x 20? Might be worth a try.
8.5 x 20 lathe? I would think so.
Hello, ive only recently started really using my south bend 10 heavy lathe after 20 years. I love your videos and hope you are well. I've recently made my own dial indicator after watching your video and i have a question if you don't mind. Can you explain the numbering on the indicator regarding even and odd number threads please. I hope that makes sense.
No problem. Some dials are different but I think yours is made like mine. When cutting even threads (like 6, 8 , 10 TPI) you can engage the half nut on any mark. For odd threads (13, 5, etc) you can throw it in on any short or long line (or odd or even number) but you have to stay with whatever you start with during the threading process (always short or always long). The numbers are not important unless all the lines are the same length Short lines are even and long are odd. The numbers are needed for odd threads like 4.5 TPI or 2.5 TPI. I've never had a need to cut these weird threads so I left the numbers off my dial.
@@WinkysWorkshop that's great, thank you for clearing that up for me. Have a great day look forward to your next video.
@@kevingray1757 Glad you understood. It's fairly simple but I wasn't sure I explained it well.
Spot on thank you
The angle at which you tilt the dividing head is Thread Pitch=(1/tpi) and tpi is threads per inch
You mean "Angle = 1/TPI" ? So 8 TPI is 8 degrees???
@@WinkysWorkshop It works out to a right angle triangle. example, if you have a lead screw with a outer diameter of 1". The angle=inverse tan X ((1/number of threads per inch)/1"). If your lathe has 1" OD and a Pitch of (1/8)= .125", the angle is 7.125 degrees. This value of 7.125 degrees is then scaled by cross multiplication with the width of the base of the dividing head to get the shim height. also you can tilt the dividing head to 7.125 degrees and slide some shims underneath.
@@dlfabrications - I think I should have had more math in school. I had one year of algebra in high school at that was it. I have no college education. Obviously I find ways around this missing education and quite often I learn math as needed. I actually had what I would call a job in engineering redesigning problem areas on machines in the printing industry. I guess you might say I know what is possible and find the answers as needed. It's intuitive vs learned I suppose. For instance I could probably look at a truss and closely estimate the load transferred to a section of the truss but would have no idea about the math.
@@dlfabrications - I watched your tail stock video. I've had the same problem on my Logan lathe. I bought a #2 tapered reamer and touched up the bore. It helped some but it's still better to have something to grab the tang. When I got my South Bend lathe it didn't have a spindle so I made one. I put two sets screws in the side of the spindle. It worked fantastic!!! Watch starting here for a few minutes. It shows the reamer and set screws install. ua-cam.com/video/vrXBkqC6ttc/v-deo.html
@@WinkysWorkshop Good job!
I watched your video ua-cam.com/video/vrXBkqC6ttc/v-deo.html and it is a good idea. I thought my tailstock spindle was hardened steel. I just went to check this out and gave it a the file test. coarse file = mild steel, fine file = harder steel, any file no scratch = harden steel. It is mild steel so I will in the future either make a quill or modify the current one. Thanks
Winly this old tony does a e cellent tutorial on dividing head use....im rooting for ya, you and i are both new to the whole thing, this is the stuff thats FUN, figuring it out...that said like i said, check out ToTs vid on it
I'll have to check that out... Love Tony! I watched a very good one by Joe Pieczynski but he didn't cover the indexing plates. It's going to take a while to learn it good but I'll get there. Thanks!
Outstanding.
Thanks
Nice job, you solved some of the problems I am going to have when I make mine. The table you used at the beginning was it in the rotary table manual or somewhere else, mine is 90:1 also so should be the same although for a different tooth count and 3mm leadscrew.
Yes it was in the manual, the table was sold by Grizzly although the same table is likely sold by many. Look on page 17. cdn0.grizzly.com/manuals/h7527_m.pdf
@@WinkysWorkshop great thanks, yes i think they are generic tables sold by many, mines still in the box, its been hrre 6 months. All i know is its 90:1 so the same table should work if its not in my manual.
@@incubatork - Mine came with my mill when I bought it. This is the second time I've used it but it sat over a year before I tried it.
Hi winkey can you tell us what the final width the teeth were cut to and how deep.. got the same lathe been trying to get the teeth right but I,m failing got the diameter and boss right it,s just the teeth letting me down..love the vids by the way
Sorry, I thought I included that. It was .080 but you could go slightly wider. The gear diameter was 1-5/16". I don't know if this is ideal but if you go larger the tooth spacing will be larger too. Oh... and just in case, the gear is 32 tooth for a 8 TPI lead screw. Thanks for watching!
@@WinkysWorkshop thanks winky will try that
First the larger dials. Now the threading dial. I know what my next 2 projects are.
Good luck.
Does the diameter of the gear make a difference as long. As the thread pitch in the same as the lead screw?
You could be off on diameter a little but the number of teeth on the gear has to be right.
Thank you
You're welcome
I'm in the same position you are (were) in. I have a 1935 SB with 15" swing, 6 ft bed. How did you decide how many teeth were needed on your gear? Thanks for posting your work on this!
I asked a guy on facebook who has a SB 11 like mine to measure the OD and count the teeth on his gear. I'm sure you can do the math but that would be hard for me.
@@WinkysWorkshop Thanks for your reply. I just was told by a guy on a machinist forum that it needs to be 24 teeth, and of a pitch to match the lead screw. Thanks!
@@KevinToppenberg Your welcome... That sounds right.
Could you explain the way you decided what the gear tooth count should be?
My lathe was missing the counter. I found a used one that was from a totally different machine. Just wondering how to calculate if it will be accurate.
Yeah... I found somebody with a similar lathe and had them measure the diameter and count the teeth. I'm positive there are ways to calculate what is needed but I'd have to give that a lot of thought. If I was you I'd find somebody with a similar lathe and do the same.
I'm guessing any lathe with a particular TPI lead screw will be the same gear.
I found this little “time capsule” ……..Dang check out the chestnut hair! 😉
You need to talk to my wife about that. She said, let me help you dye your hair. She said it was that stuff called "Touch of Gray" but it was her hair dye.
@@WinkysWorkshop too funny, I’m naturally grey, I’ve earned each one of my grey hairs.
@@billybike57 Me too... aside from the 3 month it took to get it back
I would like to build a tread cutting dial for my Lablond lath thst I picked up and wanted to know how did you know what diameter to cut the stock and the depth of cut to get the right gear size for your indicator? Was it something you looked up and if so are all the ratios the same for all the lathes?
Sorry, I'm new to Machining now that I'm retired. love your videos and stay healthy since we are locked down.
I cheated :o) I asked somebody with a South Bend lathe what the diameter and number of teeth were. With that being said, if you have a 8TPI lead screw I think 32 teeth will work. Gears are confusing plus this is not a normal gear. On the plus side, it doesn't drive anything so it's forgiving.
@@WinkysWorkshop Not SO! It will drive your brain CRAZY!
Winky, I would recommend that you demonstrate the finished product at the Beginning of your video, so that we can understand what youre making. That's what Norm would always do. Thnx
Good idea! I guess I figured anyone watching would know what the threading dial is for. HOWEVER... I found out via some of the comments that I didn't completely understand the way the dial works. This guy does a good job at explaining although he lost me on fractional threads (like 11-1/2" TPI). Thanks for the input! ua-cam.com/video/jbRcs_Hhtuw/v-deo.html
@@WinkysWorkshop Norm would always show you in the begining the item he wanted to teach you how to make. That way you could see all the details and see how it works. I found it very instructive.
Good job ,Well done ! When in need Make it.And look at it with Pride ! Another Part Made in U.S.A.
Yep... USA
Nice job on the build. However, from 60 years of machining experience I can tell you never, never leave the wrench in your chuck! When you feel you have to take your hand off the Chuck wrench take the wrench out of the chuck.. I know everybody says you would never do it but I can't tell you how many times I have seen people turn the machine on with the wrench in the chuck and it can be quite a surprise. Nice job otherwise, very creative methods.
Thanks... and yes, I agree!
Brilliant!
Thanks again... looks like a Corona youtube day for you. :o)
@@WinkysWorkshop Hi, I'm retired and spend my days in my shed. I usually watch you and other machinists in the morning and try to do some actual work in the afternoons on my crappy Chinese lathe and other machines I have bought cheaply over the last several years.
At the moment I'm working on making a Gyroscope toy for my grandson, his birthday is on Friday 8th (12 y old). He's very intelligent and loves science (wants to be a Theoretical Scientist), I can barely spell it!
Looking forward to this like a kid waiting for the ice cream truck. 19 hours away, wow i might be doing the peepee dance by then.
This is funny, I never listed a video as a premier video. You tube just said, your video will be premiered on your home page so I thought, why not? Now I'm thinking I should have saved it for an extra special video... I hope it doesn't disappoint!
@@WinkysWorkshop can't disappoint me. I have been married for 35 years and the momster in law is still around.
@@countrycraftsman5110 Ha! Sorry!
That's really impressive Winky. I like your style! One question however, when you attempted to make the first gear you used brass or bronze, why did you decide not to use brass for the second gear and instead use steel ? Although you won't be using it all the time a steel gear onto the leadscrew is bound to cause much more wear than the bra gear would have.
I used brass on the first gear because it cuts easier. Good point, I agree brass would be better for wear but most lathes use steel on their original threading dials so I'm not worried. I think maybe I ran of of brass of maybe just because it was cheaper.
I
Why didn't you hobb a gear with a tap?
That probably would have worked well. I didn't have a tap and a tap that size is high priced.
Just passing the time..........I got so used to cutting Metric threads by leaving the half nut engaged all the time and winding the chuck and saddle back on my Imperial leadscrewed 1930 Colchester Bantam lathe that I just cut threads that way for Imperial pitches too......I just can't be bothered to disengage the half nut and do it the old way and adding a threading dial is not something I need to do anymore.
Probably a great way to do it if you have a brake or instant reverse.
@@WinkysWorkshop It was just a necessity as I have an Imperial leadscrew and that is the only way to cut Metric threads. Over the years I got tired of watching the threading dial go round to the spot I wanted and engaging the nuts so that is what I now use all of the time......threading is done at 100 rpm so reversing the screw is not a problem and I do it with handle in the spindle end anyway. I wouldn't advise anyone to run up to a shoulder and quickly reverse the spindle......that takes split second timing, experience does count.
There is a device called a single tooth dog clutch that is incorporated in the beginning of the screw cutting gear train mechanism and it allows instant stopping of the leadscrew without stopping the spindle, especially when doing Metric threads, and you don't lose synchronisation of leadscrew to spindle.
The geartrain and half nuts remain engaged all the time to maintain the threading position.....you can thread at 300rpm with carbide up to a shoulder without having a mishap.
This was designed by a guy.....I think it was Martin Cleeve but maybe wrong..... in the UK magazine Model Engineer back in the 70's.
@@gangleweed - Interesting. I'll bet the clutch is lathe specific. Thanks to you I will likely lose sleep tonight trying to imagine how to stop instantly at 300 rpm. I'm kidding although quite often I avoid looking at a proven design until I have an idea how I would do it. Most the time a proven design is better but every now and then my approach is much better . Thanks!
@@WinkysWorkshop The design is probably applicable to most lathes and it basically consists of disconnecting the spindle itself from the gear train but keeping the gears engaged to one another.
It's a small one tooth dog clutch that connects or disconnects the spindle gear to the spindle it rotates on.
On most lathes there is a fixed gear on the spindle that meshes with the first stud gear of the gear train.
It's quite clever how it works but it would take an essay to explain it in detail.
In operation a lever arm connected to the dog clutch is pushed off by a rod on the saddle as it nears the end of the thread stopping the saddle immediately......then with the half nuts still engaged you wind the leadscrew back with a handwheel attached to the right hand end of the leadscrew.....the dog clutch ensure the spindle will take up the drive at exactly the same spot as one pitch in either Imperial or Metric is one turn of the screw.
I have to do this for mine...the eBay prices are just insane
Aside from the gear it was easy but learning my rotary table and indexing disks was fun
MUY BUENO
Felicitaciones muy buen trabajo
How did you calculate the size of gear?
I asked a guy with a south bend who had an 8 TPI lead screw. I also asked him the OD of the gear.
OK you kind of left us hanging by not cutting some threads to show how well it lined up with multiple starts :-)
Oh... Well I tested it to some degree. I'm not sure why some have numbers. I just put lines on mine. Even numbered threads can throw in on any line and odd can only throw in on short or long depending on what you start with... But I do need to test it more.
@@WinkysWorkshop They have numbers for helping with cutting "half" threads like 11½ tpi pipe thread (engage on 1,3, or alternatively on 2,4, depending what you start with) and "quarter" threads like 3½"BSW ( 3¼ tpi ) or 5" BSW ( 2¾ tpi ), pick a number and engage on that number only. You could also use the numbers for cutting two-start or four-start threads. But if you don't need to cut such obscure threads I don't think you need the numbers.
With that gear, do you do all the threads, both metric and withworth?
This one will only work for imperial threads (whitworth & american).
Threading dials only work for "native" threads; i.e. imperial threads on an imperial lathe, or metric threads on a metric lathe, not both. (Unless you use a "Metradial" but they seem pretty rare.)
As Eric says there are metric thread dials for metric lathes, but they are more complicated. This is a case where the metric system of dividing by 10 isn't a help. The metric thread dial has to have gears inside to acomidate the different metric threads. The imperial inch thread dial is simpler because many inch threads are progressive and are an even fraction of the lead screw pitch. There are inch threads that must be cut like metric threads without the half nut being opened because they aren't an even fraction of the lead screw pitch.
But the thread dial is handy even when cutting metric threads on a imperial machine. If you are threading to a shoulder, engage the half-nut on a specific mark on the dial (like "1" or a sharpy mark) and make your first pass. When you reach the shoulder back out the cross-feed while opening the half-nut and then stop the spindle. As the lathe spindle stops you will notice that your mark on the thread dial hasn't moved much past where you disengaged it. Now reverse the spindle and as your mark comes back to where it was, engage the half-nut and back the carriage up to your start point and stop the lathe. Repeat until the thread is completed.
Cool... I knew I could not thread metric without a gear change and about leaving the half nut engaged but I did not know about the metric being more complicated on a metric lathe. Thanks for explaining.
@@WinkysWorkshop Based on what I see come up on eBay occasionally metric threading dials tend to come with a selection of gear wheels that will each let you cut a subset of metric threads. e.g. for a 6mm pitch leadscrew lathe the dial will come with 14, 16, 18, 20, & 22 teeth gear wheels and a dial numbered 1-8.
The 14T gear lets you cut multiples of 1.75mm pitch threads (that is 1.75, 3.5, 7, 14mm pitch) engaging on lines 1 or 5.
16T gets you 0.25, 0.75, 1. 1.5, 1.6, 2, 3, 4, 6 & 8mm pitches.
18T lets you cut 0.225, 4.5, 9mm.
20T gives 1.25, 2.5, 5 & 10mm pitches.
And the 22T gear gets you 5.5mm and 11mm pitches.
The threading dials have a table showing what numbers to engage on, what gear to use etc. I haven't used one but it loks like a right proper faff!
Import metric lathes seem to omit most of the gears and tell you not to disengage the half nuts for those threads.
e.g. if it's a 3mm pitch leadscrew the complete set of gears would have been 28, 32, 36, 40 & 44T but probably only 36T & 40T are supplied as that covers the most (common) pitches(the 0.25 thru 8mm series and the 1.25 thru 10mm series above) with the fewest gears.
If you've read this far you'll be glad to go back to imperial tpi :-)
@@ericfeatherstone I recently did a 20mm 1.75 thread with my imperial logan lathe. I found out that 14 tpi was almost a perfect match.
all slitting saw arbors wobble and you need to use the table lock on the rotary table before each cut
The table lock is probably a good idea although it worked very well. I can't remember for sure but I think I had the lock set for a slight drag.
Why didn't you look on your bench? There is a dial just a waiting for you!
Isn't that something! Ha. I can't believe you are the only one to point that out. That was a home made dial somebody gave me. The gear didn't mesh very well and it was poorly made but it was nice to have as a model. The gear diameter and number of teeth were right.
Keith rucker
@@WinkysWorkshop OH!
Looks like you hobbed your finger a bit . Nice job tho
Ha... yeah it was hot. Thanks
If you are going to Premier a video please tell the rest of world the date .Day ,Month and Year 90 percent world do not know when 9/11 happened.
Sounds good. To be honest I didn't understand how it all worked, this was a first. I really don't see much advantage to posting as a premier video. I probably won;t do it again.
I hate premieres, they fluff my subscription listings with vids I can't watch... Please don't use the premieres... I always watch your vids unless I unsubscribe due to premiere postings. Not a threat, just fact.
Truthfully I had no idea how this all worked. I won't be doing it again. I had no idea I would be live. The video will remain like all my other videos however. I agree, the premier thing is a gimmick.
@@WinkysWorkshop Just watched the video and wanted to say it was great, that dial should serve you well. Hope I didn't come across the wrong way but premiers are just a waist of space. Really love the job you've done on the SB lathe, hope to see more on it, thanks!
@@larry527az3 - No problem, I totally agree with you. I can not see a premier as a positive in any way - Thanks on the south bend, I'm excited to put it to use.