Power Locks gone NUTS! (Toyota) -Part1
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- Опубліковано 7 січ 2019
- One of the weirdest customer complaints that I have yet to come across....
This 1996 Geo Prizm (aka Toyota Corolla) has become possessed by a ghost...the door locks have a MIND OF THEIR OWN!!
The diagnosis becomes a bit more involved when the "basic" checks fail to yield results...
Enjoy!
Ivan - Авто та транспорт
The scope and noise made it look like it was "alive" with a heartbeat like an EKG.
*SPOOKY*
Ivan,
Very interesting case study. I love these old 90's cars. Great patina on that old GEO! And you are right - a manual transmission is a great anti-theft device. I have them on both my 02 and 05 Focuses.
Looking forward to the solution - thanks.
God bless
Paul
Thank you Ivan for a great channel! Its always instructional and honest. Like a good mystery story with a solution at the last chapter, very entertaining!👍
I like failure modes that make me laugh! 😂 Thing was possessed! 🤣
First thing I'm thinking - magic box failure. Can't wait for part 2! 👍👍
Thank you Ivan. Good job. Have a blessed and safe New Year to you and your family.
I know you love a challenge Ivan. It was interesting to see the reaction of the scope when things went wild. :)
Great case study...looking forward to pt 2. Thanks
Are you sure you haven't gone nuts yet? Lol. That was weird video, lol. I must be going nuts watching it lol. I'm curious to see what the results were!!! Great video! Love to see more of weird stuff. Makes it so interesting to watch :)
Hey mate, the Australian built E series Falcons had the locks bouncing symptom quite frequently as well during the 90s, from new.
The fault was that one lock actuator would get lazy, either electrically or mechanically, and the body control module would sense a mis-timing of events, see it as a door open, and then start cycling the door locks in a mis-timed loop. The repair was to replace all of the door lock actuators with revised components and flash update the module under warranty (the flash update was to make the BCM less reactive to delays in actuator response).
It was quite a big job, as the actuators were riveted to the inner door skin and it was quite tricky to disconnect and remove the actuators from where they sat.
The reason all door actuators were replaced was that poor manufacturing made them susceptible to wear and shorts and replacing only one would result in a return when the next one failed.
Just a word of "be careful" with assuming only one actuator is at fault. Replace one, and you may still end up with the same fault due to BCM picking up a mis-timed event.
Also, the Chevy floor mats in a Toyota are a dead give away that it is gonna be a problem car.
As always, it is fun to follow along in real time.
The easy thing to check - continuity to ground for both lock and unlock or just cut the unlock wire (with 4 volts) at the control module to see if it is grounded somewhere along the way to the doors. Thanks for sharing!
Apparently Staten Island Vehicles end up in State College after all. Good luck with this one Ivan!!!!!
Great video man you sure seem to be staying extra busy. Keep up the good work
Hey Mike! Yeah super busy haha vacation wasn't long enough!
Very interesting, I test drove once a 1994 Toyota Corolla 4d sedan which had similar problem but if I recall correctly, it didn't want to stay locked, it kept popping the locks open. Looking forward to see the next part :)
that is normal operation if the door was opened and key in ignition. that was a feature to keep you from locking your keys in car.
I'll have to look into the schematic further, and rewatch video but gut feeling is ground with high resistance failure mode. I remember a few years ago in a training class with those electric test boards for multimeter education that the instructor induced a high resistance ground fault into a relay control circuit and it acted pretty identically (relay contacts worked as a buzzer).
I'm assuming that the module is basically using a relay set-up in the board (picturing a dual relay set up but have to think through it further), not transistor drivers but we know what happens when we assume.
Hahaha! Ghost locks!! Reminds me of a little story.
It's seems that an older neighbor bought a new car, a few years ago. His wife was the prime driver! On various evenings, I would come in late, and find the trunk open. We were late nighters, so I didn't hesitate to notify him of the issue! He thanked me, and we went our ways. The incident continued to occur. I would come in at all times of the night, or come out to walk my dog, and find the trunk open!!after a few times, he got to thinking that his wife was the issue! She was unknowingly opening the trunk, when she exited the car! He just figured she was an idiot, and let me know that thought process, quietly!! She swore that it wasn't her, and she let me know that she wasn't that stupid, QUIETLY!! ;-)
Well I finally got down to figuring it out. I came in late one evening, and he was outside, walking the dog, as I came in. The trunk was closed, he was going inside, and just waved as I pulled in. I got out, and headed to the door, and heard the unmistakable sound of the POWER TRUNK RELEASE!! I looked, as the deck lid creeped upwards. I thought, now I have some info, and went and tapped on the door. He opened it, and I turned and looked at the car. He looked, saw the open trunk, and wrinkled up his nose and whisper, that idiot! Meaning her, of course! He said I'll get it, and thanked me. I said that I would be glad to close it, as it was actually only a step or two out of the way! He accepted, and thanked me. I walk to the car, and closed the trunk. He appeared at the door, and wiggled a set of car keys. I looked, and didn't understand the implications!! I was confused. I walked back to his porch, and asked about what it was. It was her keys!! They were laying on the table, right in front of where he was sitting. He said that it wasn't her, she was asleep, and her keys were in front of him the whole time! He was confused. He tried to figure this out!! Made suggestions that someone else in the neighborhood must have a set of keys that open his trunk. He was so mad at the manufacturer at that point, he couldn't see the real truth! I was already leaning towards the answer, but played along, a step or two! I said wow, that's weird for them to make two set of key fobs, with the exact same combination, so close together! He agreed. Suggested that they only make a few for all e whole world, it's bound to happen!! Then he wondered about changing the signals, so he could stop this insanity!! I said that the idea could work. Then I suggested that he HUNT DOWN HIS SPARE KEYS, AND KEY FOB REMOTE, AND TAKE BOTH SETS TO THE DEALER!! He grinned, as if he had just won a prize!! He said I know right where the other set is. He fished in his pocket, and pulled out a wad of keys, that any high school janitor would be jealous of!! He said, I have them right here!! I smirked!! He got hit with a ton of bricks, at exactly that moment! He said, you don't think. I said, I THINK SO!! H said, wait right here. A few seconds later, the trunk popped!! He then reappeared at the door, looked at the trunk, and shook his head!! It was him the whole time!! A couple of weeks, total! They had even just that night, argued that she was doing it, because she didn't know any better! She went to bed mad! He said he kinda felt bad, but would not even consider telling her that it was him the whole time. Old, long time married couple, you know!! He hated her. She hated him. Been together too long to split up. They just tolerated each other!! I thought it was hilarious! He blamed her, the whole time, even though it was him sitting on a Volkswagon sized wad of keys, that triggered the trunk release!! When he figured it out, he said, I been saying what an idiot she is, and I'm the idiot that's been doing it!! I just laughed and said, I FORGIVE YOU.....THIS TIME!! Don't let it happen again!! He laughed and said, DONT TELL HER!!! And then closed the door!
That powers lock popping up and down just brought that story to mind!! I laughed, and had to share it! I miss the old fart!! I wonder if he's even still alive!! I doubt it!! He was a great neighbor!! She....wasn't so great!! Wink wink!!
That was nice, thank you for sharing!
Awesome story!! :)
I have had similar issues with random actuations and low voltages on ground side switched inputs on BCMs and similar.
Inside the module there are little filter networks that prevent radio frequency interference from getting into the logic.
What I find is there are surface mount ceramic capacitors (either individual or a group of 4 in an 8-pin package) that develop internal leakage.
A little heat usually removes the fault (temporarily) but replacing the filter capacitors is the proper cure.
Had a Nissan Micra with random actuations of the hazards (4-ways) and random door ajar warnings.
Remove the module.
Test lock line input resistance to ground and compare with unlock line which should in theory be the same resistance.
If lock is way lower resistance, follow the circuit trace for the lock line until you get to a capacitor.
Leaving meter on Ohms between lock line and ground, just try applying a little heat to one side of the capacitor with your soldering iron.
Resistance shoots up, you've found the problem!
I have a couple of Saturn S-series, like the one you were given......Door switch internal part breaks and does the same thing(cycles the lock on and off)...Replaced the switch ($15) and all fixed
WOOHOOO A 1/2 hr. vid. from SIR IVAN.
Waiting for Part 2 Ivan lol. One idea I had watching this was snipping the wire pinned on the green channel, at the control module and test the voltage on the control module side of that wire without any of part of the harness interfering. Though before I do that I would want to test for good power and grounds at the control module first if there is more than one power and ground to the module. Curious what you found.
3:58 "right here is the meat and potatoes" ... points to diagram clearly showing a row of hamburgers...
Brings an all new meaning to a ghost in the machine!
part two, noooooooo the suspense is killing :))
Backfeed ground from one motor that is not cycling fully from on to off or vice versa. Passenger side motor may be weak as it does not 'snap' as well as the others.
Interesting theory...
I would stick a 4k7 resistor from 12v to the lower trace to see if it made the logic more definite.
Or it could be possesed lol, such a funny effect :-D.
So a common lock signal that is at 12v when open. But 4 separate unlock signals that (at least the 2 front) are at 4-5v when open. When the left front unlock is closed, it sometimes doesn't go to ground but seems to pull the lock signal down by 2 v when it drops 2v. In addition, when the lock signal is closed (grounded), the unlock will go to 12v for a short time. Kind of like it's getting back fed from the lock signal power in some strange manner but with a delay.
I have a bad feeling about the controller given that two separate unlock lines are showing the same reduced sense voltage which probably finally is hovering in the undetermined zone causing the sense circuit in the controller to oscillate.
But how does grounding the lock line cause the unlock to rise to battery voltage?
those older systems could get out of sync, my 90s ford fiesta had an issue locking, it would cycle for ages sometimes, wasnt water but the guy opening it and stressing one of the mechanical links in the door
I was thinking of this with transistors, but what if the unlock signal grounds the unlock relay coil directly. Perhaps that coil itself has shorted and now sometimes has just enough to vibrate the contacts?
I seem to recall the key switch assembly or door lock assembly getting corroded on them, but I cannot say I've touched one of them "tin cans" in over 15 years.
Mechanical multivibrator .. some kind of unwanted feedback .. high z short or hi z ground?
High z power or high z ground?
Probably the Trunk Key Switch
Were you able to pull the door lock fuse and not affect other things? I am disappointed you didn't find a poltergeist.
I would unplug back door actuators. Plus it's good to check if water got to the back doors.
"I never lock my car." So, unplug the locks. Done.
Or pop the fuse.
Exactly what I was thinking. Fuck spending all this time diagnosing it if its a beater car that doesnt get locked and he leaves the keys in. Pull the fuse and be done with it. It has lock knobs on the door, so they can still be operated manually.
Sorry this is poor mentality
Then what would be the point of the video?
@@rightconditions2010 It is poor mentality to have the customer pay a lot of money for something he doesn't need.
Hi Ivan, i assume this has No rear doors, does it have a lock on the trunk/boot or bonnet, wonder if the wires in the sleeves between the doors and body are broken and touching together,,,, that happens a lot as you know with all the opening and closing of the door...i think you might be able to use a 12 volt bulb circuit tester and earth out the plugs on the switches with that, to by pass the switches so to speak...i would have thought the actuators were ok, think there just a reversible electric motor...well there my thoughts for what there worth...good luck from Fred in Uk.
I got on e I have a 2000 chevy s10 Blazer and it tries to start it self and the lights are always on and when I turn on my lights the doors lock any ideas ?
:Raises hand: How do you film and simultaneously provide light from your head? GoPro with light accessory?
Interesting! That Toyota looks like the red one you fix the gauges cluster a few months ago.
Yup same one. Speedometer now sometimes stays at ZERO....more video material!! ;)
I would in plug the rear door lock actuators and see if one of them is pulling down the unlock the at the remote controller I would cut the wire and see if voltage returned
Measure the open circuit (plug disconnected) resistance in all control switches, lock and unlock pins.
Anything lower than a couple mega ohms points to a corrosion bridge in the switch or its connector.
Unplug battery Minus cable, then measure the input resistance on the controller input pins from the door switch connectors, switches unplugged.
Should be less than 1 mega ohms. Anything higher points to a disrupted cable or connector.
Anything less than 10k is a suspected wire grounded out.
Hmm... possible after market car alarm?
before seeing video i can guess the problem. well if this car is anything like the camry i had it will not let you lock the keys in car in ignition. if you try and lock it with door open it will auto unlock so it is impossible to lock keys in. this seems like the door close switch is messing up and the car thinks that the door is opened when it is closed then it sees doors is closed and it stays locked because the auto lock button is messed up and always pushing lock.
Bad ground somewhere?
Good job
I'll replay it a couple times. Wicking is what I'm thinking... just where? It's got to be at the module or the connector at it. Haven't seen the status if that area in the interior.... is there leaking in? Or just wicking from Driver Door? Hmmm
The actual scope capture is a big clue...Part 2 coming soon Cuba :)
Check the ground for the power door lock control module, door key switch ground, and even theft deterrent ground.
module? nope not them days
Aww man I was just getting into it!!
Haha Roxanne I won't make you wait too long for Part 2 I promise!!
Man I tell ya, just when I as a savvy diy'er think I understand the basic wiring diagrams, all I have to do is look at a power window/lock circuit. 😢😢😢
Oh..... And I'd pay a dollar to see the outcome! 😉
Oh a cliff hanger!!!
Be interesting to find out what is causing this. We had a 1992 Buick Skylark GS coupe which would randomly start cycling the door locks. Sometimes it start and continue until it ran the battery down. The keys and keyfobs were kept in a kitchen drawer. I got tired of getting phone calls when I was half way across the country from my wife telling me the car would not start. I tried diagnosing the problem but finally gave up and traded the car for a new Prius. At 5 1/2 years the 12 volt battery decided it was no longer going to stay charged more than a day or two and we replaced it. Problem solved.
But a 1992 Buick Skylark is INFINITELY cooler than a Prius!! Bring back the 90s!!
Tough problem, weird voltage and useless connector outside the plastic on front passenger door, BUT it took 23 years for the problem to develop. My vote - compromised underhood ground causing redirected current flow. While you’re there, add a generic window switch for the fron passenger window.
For an apprentice, this is even more difficult than voltage drop test.
My 1997 Ford Mondeo has got a habit locking me out from time to time, can't find the fault so i always make sure the spare key is in my pocket. Pesky thing.
I wish my Mystique had power locks...
Im having this exact same problem on my Dodge Stealth r/t right now lol
I had a 73 Electra that did that to me once.. was a cruddy switch.
i rember this. door lock actuator weak i rember replaceing a few not making full travel making module mad.
#1, good job
Well it's not fixed...yet ;)
i need mine fix’s 😢
Thank for video
The more the better😀😀
I got plenty in stock :D
Might as well change the actuators while you are in the doors. This problem is eating up a lot of it's lifetime cycles.
u might have the last geo still on the road right there.
We are...Penn State!
I like how the Toyota haters come out to pick on a 23 year old toyota that has a small issue.. in the mean time their Mexican/China made Ford, chevys and dodge cars/trucks started falling apart the moment they left the dealership parking lot and ended up being huge endless money pits before any of them hit 8 year old.. I'm sure most of these amazing autos from the Big 3 made by the the finest abused labor from china and mexico all have been recycled in to the finest pot metal and plastic goods you can find near you at your local Dollar Tree!
getrealplease amen to that
Same coin, different side...
I've got 370,000 on my 1996 geo prizm, luckily, no power locks or windows on mine....Looks like fun...especially in the winter.....
The you tube AWARD FOR MOST INSIGHTFUL COMMENT, WITHOUT CLAIMING SEXUAL HARASSMENT!!
And likely, the truest!! But don't count your chickens...The main reason that you don't see as many older cars on the roads.....*CASH FOR CLUNKERS* anyone remember that?? They started crushing anything a day old or older, as soon as that FIASCO passed!! What do we have to show for it! $50,000 cardboard boxes, that don't last long enough to survive the car hauler trip to the dealership! Cars that run on ethanol, and guess at the concentration of alcohol in the system, then get it wrong unless you pat you belly rub your tummy, and build up credit card debt that will outlast your grandchildren!! Now, we have MANDATORY BACK UP CAMERAS!! Why, because turning around in the drivers seat is too inconvenient for new millenials!! I remember when a TIRE PRESSURE MONITOR also had keys to the car, checked the oil and water, and lit a cigarette before driving away!! Nowadays, the cars automatically lock, unlock, park, check for colon cancer, verify pregnancy and paternity, and babysit most kids between the temps of 50*and 90*! You don't even have to have a key for most cars today! Let alone know how to operate one!! Just sit back, browse social media, and let the insurance company fix the damage!! We even have dash came, now!! To decide who was paying the least attention to their driving, when the crash occurred!! Notice I didn't say "ACCIDENT"!
Leesherwood...pay attention to your surroundings!! Look for black helicopters, and men in black suits!! You just admitted that on the Internet, and right now, there is an entire bureau of govt employees sorting thru your posts, to see if they can find any reason to come confiscate your OLD CAR!! Don't pull over to help that hot cutie, in the broken down hot rod, on the side of a desert highway!! It's a trap!!
Ok, you left me on the edge of my seat!! I don't know a lot about this system, but I'll give it my best guess!!
The door lock control module is failing, in some way!! Maybe a relay inside the module, has developed some green crustys, and making it all malfunction!! Or, it could be that this car was a horse drawn carriage in another life, and belonged to a civil war hero, that is trying to haunt the owner of this vehicle! I don't think my old neighbor is sitting on the key fob, for this one!!
Now, for the fix!! W.W.K.D?
What
Would
Kilmer
Do
Lol.
Not sure what Scotty would do....a dealer-level scan tool is pretty useless here xD
Scotty would cut the door lock wires and tell the customer to open and close them manually, just like in the old days when he worked at his grandfather's gas station.
hahaha good one!
@@PineHollowAutoDiagnostics disconnect the two front locks from the wiring plug, then it becomes fully manual locking
Are u in New York ?
No, he's in Pennsylvania State College.
wet switch! or after market alarm start gadget or wires broke in door and wet
I think it is moisture in door lock controller or connector.
Well not much left to unplug...Part 2 coming soon :)
My second guess is a partial short else where but behavior does really not match.
seems like unlock drive is getting put into lock signal.
Ah excellent! You paid attention to the scope capture Josh, thumbs up :)
Just had a Malibu in the shop yesterday with the low beams staying on all the time. It had a small leak at the corner of the windshield that was dripping on a harness behind the dash. I love chasing electrical problems like that.
ok this wasn't toyotas fault. this was gm doing. why would gm not having a switch on the passenger door too on the geo prizm when the toyota corolla version has it there already. gm makes no sense with stuff they choose to do. also why is there toyota in the title of this video when this was a geo prizm?
Oh man, that actuator makes an annoying sound... 😊
Sweet this car has auto locking with coolness delete
My 97 Camry did that . I just took fuse out
Ah that's not fun!
Part 2 will reveal:
1. Went to the 'Corner Room' for grilled sticky buns, and to find a schematic drawn on a paper place-mat by a cryptozoologic being from another dimension ?? (proven after they made the repair within 10 minutes of their return)
2. Dipped the entire vehicle in "Caig DeOxit"?? (it fixes everything)
3. Wife/girlfriend/significant other enclosed other key remote in their cat's new toy?? (most likely scenario)
mmmm sticky buns!!!
It has a bad relay. Replace the lock switch relay and you will be good.
That's called the parts cannon...waste of time and money. Welcome to the channel ;)
I have a preo gism
Hehehe what happened to Toyota’s fixing them selves 😁
Don't you just hate cliff hangers...Grin...
Rename it Christine lol
Who do u call GhostBusters!!!😁
Simple fix call an exorcist.Done!
Passenger side loose connector
Matt Way grounding out somewhere not loose I think
Loose like the driver side probably corroded too
so typical geo/toyota ;)
Don't blame Toyota for not putting in a passenger door switch, geo did that......
Engine might be toyota but it's still a freakin geo. You can't blame toyota for how Geo did the wiring.
NUMMI made both Corolla and Prism in the same factory in California back in the day.
@@jimm1028 made to geo specifications
These locks are possessed. This can only be corrected through prayer and fasting.
mmmm not sure that would fix it haha
@@PineHollowAutoDiagnostics joking aside though, I really appreciate your videos.
hes jumping round like a yo yo get a plan
3 place👍
yet another reason gm is going bankrupt my gosh!!!!!
Yikes. Excorcist Stuff
It’s a Toyota. What do you expect from a company that got the software wrong and had to go before Congress because their Prius was trying to kill people, or head bolts that barely had any threads engaged and caused massive catastrophic failure of Camry engines, or Corolla engines with defective piston rings that burn so much oil as to be an environmental nightmare and self destruct, or automatic transmissions that overheat so severely they self destruct, or V6 engines that throw a rod through the side of the block with only 30,000 miles and having Toyota deny a warranty claim because the owner did his own oil changes. Toyota flat out sucks in so many ways.
Shared Knowledge yet people buy them buy the millions. Just like people who close vote.
Overall their cars are very reliable. I think you are only reading a few select headlines. Check out all of the issues with Chevy, Dodge and some Fords. I have seen more people have significant issues with their american cars.
Keep in mind this one is from 1996 when car manufacturers actually made QUALITY vehicles, both foreign and domestic! The seats in this econobox are softer than any modern Lexus or Buick. Yes this one needed new piston rings, but now doesn't burn a drop of oil with over a quarter million miles on it and still gets 35mpg ;)
Pine Hollow Auto Diagnostics all highway miles 😂😂 who in thier right mind would dump that car? I have a 14 328D and I pray I get close to what you have even being a diesel , I’ll keep it forever like you. You’re right they don’t make them like they used to. Majority of my work is 2005 to 2014