i play a bit more try hardy and toxic if i have had hard losses for few rounds and dont regulate my feelings well. i can imagine other players doing just that but more extreme honestly.
I attach electric wires to my nipples. Every second I'm in chase the current gets stronger and stronger. It's the only way to get better at the game, every match of DBD is a literal fight for my life
People can just be incredibly mean for no reason. I was a billy player before his rework, and still am to this day. I always played casual back then and let survivors 4 man out and just focus on chasing everyone cause it makes it fun for everyone. Whenever I would see a streamer in my lobby I would go and listen to them while I played with them cause I enjoyed hearing people's reactions to my gameplay, until one time someone was just insulting me the entire time for literally no reason. Insulting me if I missed a chainsaw, insulting if I hit a chainsaw, it didn't matter. I even still let them escape besides that and they were still jerks about the match. That was the last time I ever went into a stream of someone I either was going to go against or had already finished a match with. Also for the record I have never used streams as a way of getting an advantage on my opponents, of course I would know if they were on a gen or healing but I would just play as if I never heard it.
@@vividwizard6166to be fair for the person insulting you, if he didn’t do it in the endgame chat then it’s fine. Some people might just enjoy insulting people while they play against/with them and that’s fine, as long as they don’t actively attack that person. No one gets hurt when a survivor calls the killer a cunt mid game (and the other way around as well). For most people it’s simply venting.
another thing I'll point out is that lead to the perception of survs as being more toxic is that survs have more "explicit" ways to be toxic - tunneling and camping are mechanically incentivized and it can be hard to tell the difference between "This guy is tunneling because he's an asshole" and "This guy is tunneling because 3 gens just popped and he needs pressure", while a survivor dropping bags and clicking their flashlight after getting 1 pallet stun is pretty obvious
@OOO-yn2ko Nah not even close. Games like Overwatch, League of Legends, and Rainbow Six Siege will have your teammates AND enemies talk shit to you mid match to the end of it. Dbd has the least possibility of having someone displaying toxicity to the other side in general.
You also gotta remember not everyone else playing DBD is in their twenties. Some of them are 14. And you can tell, because there is a noticeable increase in people being shitheads during fall, spring, winter break times.
Reminds me of a Wraith I played against recently, one of our players DCed right off the bat (could have been unlucky timing, as this had happened to me) so this Wraith, instead of easing up (whixh he is well wothin his right not to do) is onto of us the entire time, none of us could reset nor work on gens. He would slug and "allow" pick-ups, but not full healing, nor allow us to work on gens. Finally he killed all of us, and in the end game he typed "EZ". The way he typed, he had to have been twelve or something because he sounded so immature and was oddly combative when we told him he should have just hooked us all, instead of wasting time. Because he also robbed himself of points by not letting us do gens, chasing us off and then kicking them. In the end sure, he got the most BP (about 20k) but it was mere pocket change from what he could have gotten if he had played, not correctly, but hadn't played like a dick the entire time.
I have always noticed in gaming that is more often the grown ass adults are the shitheads rather than the literal children who will just say they tucked your mom. And generally people scapegoating children are the ones being the most toxic
Just last week i was playing knight for adept against a ttv. I 4ked but tried to play nicely without tunneling, proxying, etc. and i only used my power to patrol and bother gens rather than the boring anti loop style But despite that the ttv called me sweaty, a tunneler, a loser etc etc I went to their chat to say "hey, im sorry it was a tough match, i wouldve given hatch if not for the adept, i had fun and i hope you did too, and i hope theres no hard feelings" and he apologized in turn saying hes been having one bad match after another and was just generally frustrated with the game. He also said my skin was really cool uwu Point is, whether youre the frustrated one or on the receiving end of someone's frustration, you never know what the other player is going through and should show kindness regardless. The best way to stop the cycle of players making each other angry is by being good sports, showing kindness, and not giving in to our rude thoughts. Its our job as the community to make the community a nicer place for everyone, so do your part no matter how small it may be.
I get you, but it depends. I recently had a survivor message me saying "Trash Billy, get reported" after I got a 4k. I would blatantly leave survivors I just hooked and didn't tunnel, didn't camp, and even let a survivor do a glyph. If I had the power to do so, I would have banned them from playing DBD for a while, if not indefinitely. Reporting people (whether it amounts to anything or not) because you're upset you lost is just too far. Some people don't deserve charitability and deserve the blowback
The whole waiting at the exit gate for the entire countdown is one of the most baffling confusing forms of passive aggressive behavior I’ve ever seen. It literally makes no sense at all.
In all my years of killer I can’t even begin to count how many times I played 100% fair 2 hooked everyone and they all escape but wait at the exit gate for the entire countdown for literally no reason and then message me to get cancer and kill myself. It’s the weirdest thing I’ve ever seen.
@@TravisTLCdrummingI remember the 2nd game I was playing Clown, and it was probably around 5 hours of playing in general. I tried to play nice and even went after the stronger runner when everyone else was 2 hooks, but all four escaped and teabagged me at the end of the match since I stopped pressuring the players actually doing gens. I messaged the one playing on Xbox about why they decided to teabag a player that was new, and they just said it was part of the game. I couldn’t help but laugh.
lol and I’ve seen people make the excuse that they do it so that the killer can go kick pallets. Like yeah sure, the killer was super thankful for the extra minute they spent in the game to get 500 bp kicking pallets instead of just leaving to go onto the next game.
Im not normally a toxic person unless somebody shit talks me then I defend myself, BUT there was a time against a skull merchant that tried to 3 gen on haddonfield. We escaped, I said "fuck you and fuck this killer" and I went next so I do feel like there are cases where that is the reason
The only thing that really gets to me about sore winners is just the refusal to be honest with themselves. The "tbagging at the gates and waiting for the killer isnt bm" crowd are the dumbest people in this game. I dont normally go into endgame chat to argue with people but yesterday I had a group that played for GOJ in a four man with bgp (run what you want but dont be an ass about it) and swore up and down they didnt want GOJ after tbagging at the gates while I just wanted a daily. Lo and behold I get them again an hour later and they play a map offering to Borgo, they die at 5 and dont GG back. Shocker.
It really boils down to entitlement, refusal to admit one's wrongs, and not understanding what led to the win. People genuinely refuse to believe they're bad and that it wasn't the map/perks that hard carried them. There's a reason the same perks are run, the same maps are burnt for. Mostly by survivors. Not to mention it's 4v1 in game, and the chat. Sometimes the other players will call out the other(s) for being a dick, but more often than not they'll straight up enable the behavior and join in. Can't tell you how often I've gone for 12 hook only to be met with pure vitriol. However, if I play to win and match the energy I'm still a noob killer who I should [insert insult here]. You can't win against those types of players.
Yeah... the same thing can be said about d*ck killers though. You're a killer main so I understand your "mostly by survivors" pov but let's not ignore the facts here: DbD's community IS ONE OF THE WORST ever. So BOTH killers and survivors can be despicable. There's no "survs are worse" here. Like Scott said, some ppl are just "bad". So those come with the territory and there's nothing you can do about it. But for the most part this is a case of a very toxic community spawning very toxic members. Simple as that. If all killers would play nice survivors will do it too. But when you have abusing killers... you're just multiplying abusing survs. And thus the endless toxic cycle begins. 🤷♂
I had to do that once, just cause they also brought the oak addons, and then they cried about slugging. Well, if they dont wanna be near a hook, they wont ever be.
@@russeshe001 slugging and bleeding out is a reportable offense for griefing/not playing the game as intended. The bleed out feature isn’t a way you’re *supposed* to kill survivors - it’s to keep them and the killer from holding the game hostage for an hour.
@@nathangothan601 slugging and bleeding out isn't a reportable offense its a strategy because then sabo squads could be considered as a reportable offense cause they are not doing the objective and holding the game hostage to some degree
@@maximusthegoat8034 an episode of south park “Scott tenniman must die” He bullies cartman, so Cartman kills his parents and feeds them to him in a bowl of chilli as part of a prank.
@@maximusthegoat8034 Ask Scott Tenorman. He'll tell you all about it. You probably will have to look for him at some insane asylum though, a la Mikey Myers. 💀
Scott is objective… i recently just got dbd for PC and in no other game do i constantly get steam comments on my profile of people just crying and complaining, now ofc there are people like this everywhere specifically in dbd like 1 out of 5 matches there is always someone so rude in endgame chat and then comment on my profile with nothing but negativity. Community is 100% toxic
Do you play killer by any chance? I feel like people who main killer have to deal with this a lot more. I mean I know its 4v1 so you see 4x the amount of survivors, but I have like 1300ish hours almost all survivor and only ever got like 3 bad comments. All from other team mates.
Usually negative comments towards those people who play a killer who is unlike (skull merchant, knight, or legion with never sleep pill addon) and start tunneling at 5 gens awhile proxy camp on first hook.
@@yesh9602 yeah i mostly play killer. In no other game i see this much negativity, i’m playing rn reading this comment and had 2 different people call me a loser, and one even left another comment on my steam page. Its just the default response for like half the people that play dbd
@@westdannyjr from what i’ve learned from all my hours on killer, it seems more of just the entitlement of survivors having the game go their way. I play alot of trapper and freddy, and still get comments the same as if i were playing Good Guy or Nurse. To me, it just seems dependent on who the survivor is, and if they are in a good mood or not
I feel your pain brother. If I had a dollar every time I've been told to off myself, or that I do nothing but play games in my moms basement on my steam page comments, I'd be rich. And in no other game I play, jave people do that. I feel I play pretty fair aswell so I can imagine how bad it is for people who consistently tunnel and camp. Try not to let it bug you. Quite honestly I find a lot of the comment I get amusing
Yeah, even as a survivor main, I have to admit, some of us are little shits who will teabag and flame the killer for so much as breathing in their direction. I can understand being upset if the killer played like a dick, but the amount of times I see solo-queue teammates teabagging a killer who went out of their way to play as nice as possible makes my blood boil. Not saying killers don't do similar things (they absolutely do) but you get to see it way more often with survivors, and usually completely unprovoked.
The amount of matches where I make the conscious decision to not hook someone again right away even if I find them fully healed so they won't cry about "tunneling" only for a 4 man escape when I had 8 hooks and still t-bag and say shit like "ez" on post-game chat is staggering.
This is why I'll never advocate to play fair 24/7. Survivors claim to care about fairness but they don't recognize when it's happening. Don't ever feel the need to be responsible for the other players' fun. You're not wrong here, I have found this to be very common. I won't tunnel but if a survivor does something like you said, I'm just gonna take it. At the end of the day, they made a mistake. The tunnel is of their own doing, so it's fair game imo. Playing fair in no way is gonna make other people respectful, which is why I will not go out of my way to play fair. You give me an easy hook or kill, I'm taking it regardless of what happened beforehand. Going out of your way to play fair, it's just not worth it because the bagging and "watch me leave" mindset does not care about how nice we play. Play YOUR game, worry about YOUR fun.
@@WutTheDeuceGamingthe best part is that the people who are good people and don’t rage at the other side generally don’t care if you play sweaty or tunnel and will still say GGWP but the entitled survivors will take advantage if you cater to them and be Mr. Nice guy and will be assholes anyway, you can’t make them happy and the sooner you accept it that makes playing dbd more enjoyable
@@dakota9821 oh dear the redditor arrived with his + signs between every two words. I hope everyone is taking shelter this comment section is about to have a fowl smell.
I mean, I generally agree with pretty much everything said here, minus one part. I (personally) hate the idea of "if you want to have an enjoyable match and not get tunneled out of your mind you didn't bring the -right build-" I've always hated the idea of NEEDING to bring a build almost 100% of the time just to avoid one person who could just.... not do that. It's like "let's just not be able to use 50% of the perks because I wanna bring DS" *DS buys you nothing because of poor map rng, killer redowned you and kills you anyway. "Okay well then I'll bring deliverance, OTR, and DS every match!" But like... that's just as lame as seeing pop, pain res, sloppy every game too. There should definitely be a much bigger effort to find a way to make the game more dynamic and feel like you're not throwing if you do it.
My solution was just bringing the meme build regarless and loosing a lot so now my mmr is kinda low so not bringing META perks isnt as detrimental, on the other hand my teammates are also kinda new (dont wanna say they are bad per se) so it balances itself out haha
@randalloses2748 and that is fine, but it shouldn't be a stale "this build is how uou have an okay match" at higher levels. That is boring, and ultimately benefits no one, especially people who may not want to buy those characters as well. (I have all of them, but other people do not) It should just.... be not shitty? Lol
@@AlexTheFurboi It would be nice if you had some good ideas for how to go about that. A meta will always exist unless everyone is on the same exact playing field, and there's not really a way to do more than discourage tunneling. Perhaps they could introduce a fuckton of new perks so that there's more viable options to choose from, but seeing how hard it is to release a few perks per update without one or multiple being busted or broken, I don't think that's gonna happen.
@SuperDdall I do not know what the solution is, as the current game and game play is complicated and hard to fix. That doesn't mean they shouldn't attempt to put some thought into it. They have already shown that they are not against making certain aspects of certain perks base kit (see Borrowed time as an example to try and make tunneling a little less annoying) I'm not sure, and I'm no expert. Any idea I give would have an equal amount of the community at my throat for daring to alter the balance, but regardless of all of that, my point still stands. That is lame and boring to be required to bring the same perks. Metas do exist, yes, but usually playing off meta doesn't actively make you unable to play in a quite hefty amount of circumstances. Playing off meta in Siege, for example, yes you are not at the advantage you would be if you ran meta, but you are not doomed to die just because you didn't. "I guess you should have just brought the AUG instead! Oh? You don't wanna buy that character? I guess you just can't play!" That is unreasonable in any other game, it's time to stop pretending it's okay here.
@@AlexTheFurboi I mean you went ahead and mentioned the BT change, so I'm unsure why you are acting like they're not trying? I mean don't get me wrong I don't care for Behavior but they have made a decent effort as of recently. I feel it's a bit questionable and maybe even disingenuous to use Siege as a comparison here, especially focusing on guns and not the operator abilities which are most certainly a more obvious comparison between the two. The games similarities end with "is a game" and "has a meta". You can use different guns in Siege for the same reason you can use different guns in CoD and do good -- the TTK is very short. The differences aren't that big because no matter what you use as long as you're hitting your shots nobody's gonna survive very long. In a game like Halo, the weapon you are using can be a LOT more decisive due to the TTK being much longer. But ultimately shooters are not a good comparison because they're not the same kind of game at all. Perks are, well, pretty obviously different in every way. They give you new abilities, they can alter mechanics or add mechanics. They are not just pew pews that do the same exact thing just in a different way (though there are some that do). What this means is that they are both impactful and much more diverse when compared to a gun in Siege. Some perks are just conceptually better than others and no amount of balance changes can fix that. It is the nature of the system. It is what it is. Nobody likes it but it's inevitable and no good solution that perfectly solves it exists as far as I'm aware. Besides, of course, removing perks entirely.
its most annoying when you play killer and the gates are open but every surv waits till the last second of the endgame collapse to leave, ik you could push them out but I dont want to give them the satisfaction of tbaging at the end
I love it when those idiots do that. I start kicking pallets, doors, or spamming my ability for extra points. I certainly won't give them the satisfaction of walking to each exit gate just to watch them leave. I genuinely don't care.
@@HockeyM.M. It doesn't feel like that. I wonder how many hours of my life could have not been spent waiting to move on with my life on a normal basis.
@@cake2531 I don't know how validating some survivor that wants to teabag at the exit gate is somehow petty on my part. But at least your logic makes sense to you, just you know, nobody else on Earth.
I think it mainly comes from people who play only one side - eventually they get to the point where they don't see people queuing up for the opposite role as people anymore, just another 'Killer' or 'Survivor' that they see as their mortal enemy with little regard to any actual person behind the screen
Excellent take. I recall Otzdarva saying something in a video once along the lines of "Be humble in victory, and be gracious in defeat". That's a lesson that's good, not just for DBD or any game/sport, but in life in general. Also, people who are sore winners should remember that there's only one "best in the world" at something. Unless you're that "one", there's always someone out there better than you are, and you may run up against them at some point.
Survivor reasons to be a sore winner, if the killer does any of the following: Playing a killer they don't like Using a perk they don't like Sent to a map they don't like Using a charm/cosmetic they don't like Hooking the same person twice in a row without hooking someone else first Chasing the same person for more than 30 seconds Didn't leave the hook soon enough or stayed near the hook Coming back to the hook after a save instead of going after someone on the other side of the map Trying to avoid/bypass someone who is bodyblocking Downing someone who bodyblocked with BT Kicked/patrolled gens too much Left somebody on the ground too long Found somebody that was trying to be stealthy Looked at the wall when picking up, or otherwise avoided being blinded Avoided/predicted/countered a perk/build the survivor was trying to use Existing Breathing Standing Killer reasons to be a sore winner, if the survivors do any of the following: Using a perk they don't like Using an item they don't like Using a survivor/charm/cosmetic they don't like Having a username they don't like Sent to a map they don't like Suspected of being in a party Vault the same window several times Get too many pallet stuns Get too many grasp escapes/saves Last more than 30 seconds in chase Crouching of any manner Any kind of gesture of any kind Try to bodyblock for any reason Doing gens too close to the killer Being too helpful to their team Not being helpful enough to their team Trying to play stealthy or being too difficult to find Being too brazen and trying to get the killer's attention Making too many noise notifications Dodging/trying to dodge a killer's attack Rescue a teammate too close to the killer Avoided/predicted/countered a perk/build/power the killer was trying to use Existing Breathing Standing
Honestly, being a sore looser is one thing. Its understandable salt, because many losses in a row can be exhausting mentally. But being a sore winner, is just mega cringe. Congratulations, your bullyed a new player or a player who was just trying to relax.
I agree with you on the community being not as toxic as some. However the problem is that the gameplay itself breeds toxicity. Merely playing to win in some cases can be seen as toxic behaviour. Tunnelling being the most obvious culprit. This gets confused for toxic behaviour and thus the level of toxicity within the community is misjudged,
The only time i tbag at exit gates is when i or a teammate successfully gets to one after being camped/tunneled not when we get a 4 man escape, i usually feel bad for them and leave my item behind as a parting gift
I played siege for the first time in years and an hour in I was invited to an enemy team’s party so they could all tell me to off myself one after another
This matches pretty well with reality. I've had quite a few friends that say that the Killer is "tunneling", when in reality he has hooked someone else and they even got healed, but they still say they were tunneling for no reason. And you guessed it, the worse the player, the more he complains. Players who are good rarely complain about tunneling, and often even want the Killer to tunnel them (me for example, but not because I'm good, just because I love chases).
@@Timothee_Chalamet_CMBYN I know, and completely get that, but you absolutely ignored my first point. Which is that the people who complain, rarely even suffer tunneling, you can't complain someone is tunneling you when they clearly are not. Also, the most fun part about DbD is the Killer-Survivor interaction, and it's the reason the game is fun most of the time. The reason people complain about getting tunneled is that they are bad at the game, if someone tunnels you and you survive you're having the time of your life and tbag the fuck out of the Killer at the end (and you are absolutely entitled to, Killers who take the easy way out are just as stupid as people who complain about tunneling). The thing is tunneling is only unfun when the Killer is better than you, and most people don't want to learn to position better, to path better, to learn how to consistently get fast vaults, learn map layouts, etc... And that is completely on you. You can't complain someone is playing the game and just because they are better you start crying and kicking because you can't last long enough in chase. Get better, learn, and kick Killer's asses next time. That is the point of the game.
I've definitely slugged a sabo squad before. Not because I felt like it was impossible to win, but because it was annoying. I don't see a problem with that
Yeah, I agree. In Elden Ring everyone thinks everything is unfair, but that's because they're complete doo doo at the game. They'd see that the things they complain about are not a big deal if they were at least half decent. Makes a lot of sense.
It really does baffle me when people say that dbd has a really toxic community, I think I've had more gg messages in this game than anything else I've played, it's very open and accepting for all kinds of people too. I know its an overused meme but the people chatting about how toxic dbd is wouldn't have lasted a day in 2009 cod lobby, the shit I used to hear back then was crazy.
Playing killer sent me right back to playing survivor. T-bagging at the exit gate is aggravating or whatever but constant end-game chat toxicity when they win / checking my profile and making personal attacks is why I set my profile private. Might have to go private to do killer challenges. Inb4 I don't purposely camp/tunnel run meta etc
One of the only times I bled survivors out for the full 4 minutes was when I was playing this stupid-ass RPD match, and I had killed 2 players with 3 gens remaining. They managed to do 1 of em, then stealthed around. I thought alright I’ll just go patrol the gens for a bit and find em, and after like 15 minutes of checking every corner anywhere near the gens, I found them crouching and just hiding out near the banisters in the main building, so after I finally found them, after they had wasted my time by literally doing nothing, I wasted their time and bled em out for 4 minutes while I went and got a cinnamon roll. I wouldn’t have even dreamt of doing it if they hadn’t been planning to just sit there hiding and wasting my time when they had already lost
I play only killer and if the gates open, I stopped contesting them like a year ago. I just run to the other side of the map and kick Gens. You'd be shocked how many survivors flame me after the game because they didn't get a chance to teabag at the exit gates 😂
Gonna disagree on one thing here: If we're talking the broad community, including social media, DBD probaly has one of the worst communities out of any game short of League and WoW. As for sabo squads: If you go out there with the objective of trolling a random killer, you shouldn't be surprised when they bleed you out just to troll you back.
I actually don’t mind it if players easily beat me. Whether it be as Killer or Survivor. But what does tilt me a lot if when they deliberately stall. Such as just waiting by the exit during endgame or just watching someone bleed out after everyone else has been eliminated
I disagree with the "Self Report" argument. You can beat something 100% of the time and still think it is unfair even if you are obviously so much better that you can overcome the other player. The thing that comes to mind for example is Gank squads in Dark Souls that summon a duelist then try to gank them. A lot of the time, those players are bad enough that you can still wreck them, but that doesn't mean you can't still think what they did was unfair after you beat them.
Ive never understood being tunneled as being annoying, the most enjoyable part of the game is being chased so if I'm being chased all game then that's just a win in my books. Obviously there are certain times where tunneling means u are killed quickly but most of the time I only see it as a good thing because I'm participating in the most enjoyable part of the game. Being chased.
I really gotta disagree with you man. There's a LOT of busted addons, killer powers, offerings, etc in this game that anyone but a 4 man comp team would struggle against. And even some that comp teams lose to. I agree with your point overall, but I think that this game is one of the few games where at least a fifth of the matches you play will feel awful because of flaws in game design. Whether that be a busted killer like nurse or spirit with 4 slowdowns, a killer who's power has little counterplay like chucky or alien's tail, or a swf with a map offerings and background player to name a few. There's a lot in this game that feels like bullshit at all levels of play.
I think the only time it’s ok to be “sore” in a game is if the game genuinely robs you of something or being sore with yourself if you mess up when you hold yourself to high standards
@@TimmyDatooth-fr5dfat that point why keep playing that night? Somedays we are just unlucky or whatever its better to take the L and play something else for the day if you are actually being railed 13 games in a row
This community is one of the most toxic I've ever interacted with. Everyone acts entitled, whiny, and just cry like babies. Mostly Survivors if you don't play by their rules, never slug, tunnel or camp. It's not because of the toxicity, it's because people who play this game think they're better than everyone else. or have the right opinions simply because they makes videos on the game, or have 10k hours on it. Either way, people look into it too deep for no reason.. get off the game if you're upset.
@@spade8388DBD is the only community PC players will have console accounts just to message toxicity at you. It's wild man. At least that's my experience
Also I will say that sore winners and toxicity is not RARE in any case. Could be remembering negative experiences more, but I swear everytime I play dbd 2/3 matches there is teabagging survivors regardless of match.
That's curious to me because certain things are just known to be an uphill battle or playing on easy mode. If someone queued up for soloq, they know they are playing the hardest game mode the game has to offer. If they play in a clock SWF, then they know they are playing the easiest game mode. Same with Killer selections with a Nurse or Trapper. That being said, I've only seen this 'injustice' BMing to be true for Survivor. The baby Meg got tunneled and the remaining 3 players escape, they bag at the gates because the Killer didn't let Meg play. I've seen it more often retributive for someone else, more than their own overcoming adversity. Whenever I am BMed by a Killer (or a soloq teammate), it just seems like it was someone having a bad day/life taking it out on other people. I had a Nemesis while I was duoing with a friend, and an AFK from the start (the Killer knew from the AFK crows and the zombies downing the AFK 2 minutes in) and he hooked us until it was down to 1 person with hatch. He found hatch and closed it while I was the only Surv left, and he simply refused to pick me up for 3m59s (technically ~3m since he already bled me out earlier for a minute for no reason also). I was under hook for 90s before I started to crawl away and he refused to pick up, only tentacle swinging at my body on the ground over and over. He even slow walked following me crawling away, despite hatch already being closed and being slugged the entire time. That is the norm though being BMed as Survivor. No reason, no logic, just pure someone showing their scumbag nature to their core.
I agree with all of this. Though I would rather say the killers who do this I think are salt farming. May well be cos their life sucks, but the profile comments, post-game comments, etc. usually suggest they find it funny.
Out of my 20 years of gaming DBD is BY FAR most toxic. It’s because the whole Us VS Them dynamic. Not only is it toxic in game but also in end game chat/ Reddit, DBD Forums, UA-cam and TikTok Comments. There are entire channels dedicated to BMing killers/ survivors and hurling slurs at them mid match and they are very popular.
I get what you're saying but let's not let "skill issue" blind you or anyone else from the truths, DBD has some busted shit aite? Eyrie of Crows on M1 killer is misery, being tunnelled on a map with many deadzones like say Rotten Fields isn't fun either. Spirit and Blight got some nerfs so please don't pretend that DBD is some masterpiece of a game balance wise. It's not and, it feels like the salt is justified when facing top tier killers/addons/one sided maps. There is some merit in your words tho, when I was new I teabagged at gates too because of how frustrated killers made me + how shit the maps are, then I played killer for their Adepts in the old system and it knocked some empathy into me, killers don't always have it easy y'know. I won't pretend to be above it, when I faced Tombstone Myers on RPD the other week sure I didn't type anything in chat but I was trash talking him so hard because how stressed out he made me having to be alert the ENTIRE fucking time, checking all my angles like it's Rainbow Six Siege all over again and prerunning as SOON as I saw him instead of a nice back and forth, some stress, some moments of calm (spoilers I escaped but it's my best map). But if a killer/survivors had a rough game and I'm in a charitable mood? "awww, I feel bad for you dudes", as killer I'll dial it back or even become friendly and as survivor, I'll take my W with grace and just leave, or offer him a kill.
Not gonna lie, even I do this sometimes. I've more than once given someone nodders or hit them on hook because they use Background Player or Bucke Up/FTP or something. If I'm annoyed by the survivors' choices, I'll get a little spicy like that. Can't imagine people actually being toxic in chat over shit like that though.
I think it’s more about players not liking certain killers it isn’t exactly the gamer behind the killer that’s being played. I remember around 2019 survivors t-bagged me then dc’d in front of my face and I asked why did they t-bag me and they told me they were sorry it’s just that they don’t like Freddy whatsoever lmao.
I pretty much never BM, ever. When I play survivor (a role I'm not very good at), I always try to exit as soon as possible unless teammates need help or just to heal for the extra points. I mostly play killer and I always try to not only to not BM directly, but also not to hook the same person twice unless a lot of time has passed since the last hook. Despite that, I still get the occasional shitty survivor(s) with the teabag and clicks, but I just "gg" and move on. I also still get the random "-rep tunnel and camp" comment in my profile, but those are a badge of honor, to be honest. The only time I BM'd someone was a stupid survivor who was not only trying to mess with me instead of doing objectives, but doing things such as throwing pallets in front of other survivors to block them during chase. I ended up slugging them at the end only to close the hatch in their face when they found it and letting them bleed out. They somehow claimed I was "SO MAD!" in endgame chat and threatened to report me. The cherry on top was they were in a duo and they were messing with the other non-premade survivors.
i've played DBD for a good long while now, which according to my PS App is about 1605 hours as of writing this. and i've not had much in the ways of sore winners. though i have had people who tbag at exit gate sometimes. but the one sore winner i really had, was during a match where i played as Tiffany on Haddonfield i believe. i get a 3K & then looking for the last survivor. now i'm not gonna resort to say they were cheating, but i couldn't find them whatsoever. anyway. i end up finding the hatch to close it, and i patrol the exit gates. then somehow, one of them got opened. and t he last survivor was tbagging all the way out more or less. and then after the match, they messaged me cause we were on PSN. and they spouted all kinds of crap, talking bout how they outsmarted me and bitching bout my perks. and what makes this even more stupid and also kinda pathetic. is they were playing in anonymous mode. and here they are, messaging me showing me who they are. and they were in a SWF as well, cause someone else who was on PSN. i was talking to them (who btw was super chill) told me they were in a SWF and it was a friend of theirs
I do agree to a extent because when you go up against a Bully squad or a sabo squad its just not fun even if you win or just good at the game the loop of it all is not fun. It honestly gets boring because there is no counter play its just a war of nutrition. Because I've seen Players post videos of them doing head on Sabo flash lights ect. Its funny because I never dealt with it But if i was there it would be not fun. If i did down any players like that I either try to hook and if they show me I can't I will just down them all and wait it out. going out of your way to ruin a players day is not great. Because its a flip of a coin you either get a decent killer who cracks under pressure like that or some players that do stick it out but will vocally say the match was not fun or just ignore them block those players and go next. The list goes on imo. (I can keep going)
0:39 Nothing wrong with this unless it bleeds out and you harass other people. I don't want other people having fun I think causing the extreme most amount of suffering is really enjoyable. But i'd never talk post game or make a dumb twitter or reddit thread about it.
It’s just a game, ppl will be toxic no matter what. People shoot bodies in call of duty and talk shit even when they’re losing lmao. There’s no point in even having a conversation about this since this will forever be a thing in the gaming world.
In my opinion, being a sore winner is never juatified, if you come across someone nasty, you should always be the better person instead of stooping to their level, the number of assholes just goes up by 1. Also, literally everyone should keep the endgame chat permanently disabled.
In my opinion there’s “tunneling” and tunneling, survivors who get unhooked sometimes stay injured and run to do gens and a killer will run around a while and then find them or a group and go for them cause they are the injured one and the survivor goes down and gets mad and then there’s the people who straight up follow you after first hook at 3-4 gens
Scott gets it. These are my thoughts exactly, I just have a hard time explaining to people what I'm really trying to say and this video was worded perfectly.
I don't think it's a good idea to look at content creators when looking at such phenomenon because they have a social image, a reputation to hold that binds them to not act as such dickheads as random players can.
from my experience this happens way too much even without any provocation from the other side. sure, if the killer tunnels someone out at 5 gens and then still plays so bad that they get 3 man outded, who cares, BM them at the gate and "gg ez" them, I get it. but there is so many games where people are just being assholes for absolutely no reason, several examples that all happened within the last few weeks of me playing: - I was playing solo survivor, we got a deathslinger that was clearly not very experienced, only got 4 hooks or so and everyone escaped. random teammates in the endgame chat were like "gg ez lol, so bad, deathslinger? more like flopslinger haha" - no reason for that but being an asshole. - I was playing doc and got garden of joy, I played fair despite the shit map but still got "gg ez'd - you suck" in the endgame chat, as if wininng on the most surv sided map in the game against an M1 killer was anything sepcial. similar thing also happend a few days ago where I was playing nurse for a daily, I'm a bad nurse so I got 4 man outed and holy shit these people were so mad simply because I was playing nurse, the BM simply for my killer pick that I'm not even good with was insane. I could name even more examples and I also see this quite often on streams I watch, sometimes one side just gets overly aggressive for no reason. that's what sore winners are for me, you had a completely normal game, you won, yet you're being a massive asshole about it. it's somthing I just don't understand.
The imbalance that I think you're missing is what the effects of being toxic are on either side. The worst that a toxic survivor can do to a killer is emote at them, and they can and will actively ruin the entire game for other survivors. A killer can force survivors out, or they'll eventually run out of resources/make a mistake. But when a killer decides to bleed out a survivor, or trap them in a corner, or camp them in an inescapable location, that match is not just immediately ruined for that player, but they're forced to sit there for an extended period of time dealing with it, just for the game to smack them with a "YOU FAILED" at the end of it. Of course, this is not counting the legion of gameplay mechanics that Reddit/Twitter killers have decided are toxic/BM, which include basically all survivor perks, most survivor items, and existing at all in the game. Like, fuck, I saw a mod of the DBD subreddit say that if survivors split up on gens at the start of the match, or work on gens while injured, that's toxic because they're rushing the objective. Survivor complaints about toxicity mostly revolve around not being able to play the game and engage with its mechanics, while killer complaints about toxicity mostly revolve around emoting and survivors having mechanics at all.
I find it kinda interesting scott gets more sore winners as killer than as survivor. The only times I really get sore winners is on killer and its usually when I do something EXTREME, and I dont mean dbd entitled surv main extreme (which usually means you didnt actually even do it) I mean like extremes like slugging for long long periods or camping pretty hard or something equally BM'y. As a survivor however, I have gotten so many sore winners playing against killers for usually just playing the game, looping too long, cleansing their favorite hex, using certain perks etcetc.
I think killers are whinier than survivors honestly. People like to say that survivors constantly complain about everything or that they feel entitled to win, but killers basically complain about every survivor perk as well. I get way more salt playing survivor than I do killer, though I main perkless billy and don’t tunnel so maybe I’m missing out on something.
is he even aware that he listed a bunch of toxic games and then compared a toxic game to them and said it was less toxic, dbd is like top 10 percentile of toxic games easily if not top 5 and I have played entirely too many games, people are genuinely hateful and malicious in dbd to the point where it would be shocking to find that level of dedication to malfeasance in another game, like people have went out of their way in a game THEY WON to go into people's streams and attack them with spambots because they were mad they felt like they got wrecked despite winning, there is no sore winning or sore losing in dbd, the game is in a state of perpetual soreness regardless of outcome practically oozing with bitterness a common example being those people that complain that every killer is out to get them and are all disgusting tunnelers right after they run right at the killer off hook and bodyblock
i just dont like MMR, i hate having a couple good games, then i get curve billies, sweaty nurses where there is not much of a chance... i just want to search a lil chest, do a lil boon, then do a lil gen... but if i'm not spending every single second min/maxing and doing a gen, learning every single perk that has ever existed to try and avoid it... its so boring, because then you can still lose, or get survivors who don't try, or give up, or the killer is just so unforgiving... its tough, I think mmr needs to go so that some games are easy, some medium, some hard... not easy for a couple hours then BALLS TO THE WALLS HOLY SMOKES CURVE SPIN, USING UR MISTAKE AGAINST U DIE! like jesus.
I respectfully disagree with you on some points. A killer comes in with a mori (and we know most secret offerings are moris not that 'Shroud of Separation', no one uses that unless its to play mindgames). and tunnels me or a survivor when there are 4 or 5 gens left? If I or that survivor manages to get to the exits gates? I WILL BUTT DANCE AND MAKE TEA. Even moreso if it's a top tier killer like nurse, blight, spirit, etc...
If you have 1 sore winner per match, 4 in 5 times that player will be a survivor. I was slugged and relentlessly humped by a Huntress once because of something on my stream profile (I know this because they left a comment), no hard feelings; when playing killer survivors sometimes let comments telling me I'm trash at the game, or that I tunneled/ camped them, some wholesome survivors call me cute/ good sport, some killers call me baby surv ez, some compliment my looping; you get all kinds of people. I agree DBD does have a mostly wholesome community, not even just by comparison, me and all people that I've become acquainted with through DBD have mostly positive interactions in the game. I truly believe that players who think DBD is full of toxicity either: don't know what toxicity is; play in ways that invite toxic behaviour; or forget about the neutral/ positive interactions and only remember the negative ones. I guess playing CoD and CS:GO in the past made me not care about what dumb kids say.
The reason is I can play with DS, DH, Windows and Distortion...all my matches but I noticed I escape alone, and makes altruism harder....makes these games more boring specially going against Trapper, Wraith, etc you know those mid tier killers, but if I try a more relaxed build like Botany, Bond, WGLF, maybe nefted MFT then you get those insane P100 killers or Nurse/Blight - I guess all im saying is I wish we got the info on the killer or to know if we wanna game or really compete
I'm sorry scott, but 10 seconds into the video i gotta say: all the communities you mentioned are toxic AF, i would know because i've been part of them. You love analogies so here's a good one: "My shit stinks, but compared to all the other shits i've smelled, it's pretty nice" Have you tried not "smelling shit" would be my follow up question, there are some awesome communities out there, including PVP ones like Dark and Darker, Hunt Showdown, Hell Let Loose and many others. I'm a long-time sub, so i'm not just another hater or whatever, i'm sure you got a cool way to check how long i've been around for
In a scenario where the killer intentionally avoids unsportsmanlike play, and survivors still act as sore winners, is this always routed in douchebaggery or are they trapped in a bad habit which they developed from playing against unsporting killers?
I only T-Bag if the Killer was camping and tunneling and still only killed like 1 guy, if even that. I play killer because I have too (challenges, daily rituals, incentive) so I tend to just 2 hook and let them go, as the "farming killers" are boring to face, and I want the game to be exciting. I will only kill if I need to (Ritual/Challenge) or the player(s) I kill are toxic. And so after the fact, I might tell them "If you'd just played normally, you coulda lived". Edit: Added a killer scenario.
I really gotta disagree with you Scott, which is very rare for me. I wholeheartedly reject this idea that sore winners and people who show bad manners in games are just bad people. Many of us grew up with a healthy amount of trash talking and taunting. From playing board games with my family (my dad gloating when he won) to old school Goldeneye sleepovers with teabagging, it was usually in good fun and trash talking was a very normal and healthy part of the experience. We've gotten soft, and I even play games where tbagging is screenshotted and reported as, wait for it, SEXUAL HARASSMENT. Getting a pallet stun on a killer and doing a double crouch is saying "haha never gonna catch me!". It's neither wrong nor right. It's just taunting your opponent. Sure, slugging on the ground for 4 minutes is a scummy maneuver, but the winners get to gloat a little. They get to wait at the exit gates and bag if they want (That's a flaw of the game, really. Beating a killer is not that satisfying, when no one's there to see you escape, it feels hollow). I think plenty of taunters and teabaggers are just enjoying some healthy smack talk in a game that wont let you chat with others. I do not think everyone who partakes in this kind of behavior is just a real life dick.
Personally, dead by daylight is one of the most toxic games (excluding gta v) I’ve played, most other multiplayer games that I’ve played doesn’t have nearly as many toxic people, call of duty, Overwatch, tf2, Apex legends, for most of them, there is well over 5 players in a single match and I rarely hear much toxicity come from them, but even then, with Apex, matches for you can go for like 3 minutes, then u get killed, so you requeue, but the amount of toxic teabagging survivors I’ve run into in a 5 man queued game is pretty ridiculous Sure there isn’t much racial slurs or shit talking but that’s mostly because the only chat function is endgame chat and most people leave rather than sticking around till the end And even then, I definitely receive the most messages on my profile (for both steam and PlayStation) from survivors shittalking me than I have in any other of my multiplayer games
I have several thousand hours in DOTA and I find DBD significantly more toxic. DOTA someone might get steamed because the match didn't go well, or they're unhappy with your performance as their teammate... but it rarely escalates beyond that. Of course there are exceptions, there are bad apples in every community, but for the most part DOTA salt stays in-game. It may just feel more prevalent because both sides can talk to eachother throughout the entire match with in-game chat. DBD players can and have posted personal insults and threats on my profile for months after losing a single match. They abandon matches far more often when things don't go 100% their way, and they expect their opponents to play a certain way while they get to play however they want. A huge reason for this, in my opinion, is the lack of a separate queue for solo and casual players, as well as a severely flawed MMR system which everyone individually thinks they're at the tippy-top percentile of and there's nothing they can improve at.
Doing stuff like "humping" downed survivors, tbagging, flash light spamming, etc. I think still falls into toxicity. Sure you see a lot less verbal harassment in DBD than in other games but that's mainly because there is no voice chat and text chat is only after the match. How often do you see people trash talking in dota 2 in the lobby after the match has ended? Not that often, however you do see a lot of trash talking during matches. My point - stuff that you refer to as "sore winning" I'd say still counts as toxicity, it's just that it's expressed differently than it is typically in other games, that's why I, and many others I assume, call DBD a very toxic game.
Again, lol no Scott the DBD community is quite toxic, and sore winners are sore because the win was boring, perhaps because of a cheese or gimmick or perhaps simply skill difference, and they want more out of it. Bully squads aim for emotional reactions from the killer, because the survivors have locked down the game with flashies/perks/etc and it would otherwise be boring. Same for old slug and bleed out strats, hook camping and slapping the survivor, Pinhead camping the box (removed from game), Pig camping boxes and forcing a head trap explosion, etc. You got the sore losers completely backward last time by endorsing their imaginative cope against the game (not a skill issue on my behalf, they got lucky and that's how the game is), this time you're getting sore winners backwards by rejecting your own imaginative cope against the game (the players think the game is unbalanced and that's how it is, but they got lucky or have great skill). Professional standards are primarily concerned with excessive celebration at the expense of keeping the show running, secondarily concerned with inappropriate or "dishonorable" celebration at the expense of the losing side's personal experience. There's taking pride and glory in victory, and there's casting shame and ridicule on defeat.
I honestly don't care about sore winners because as long as you have the skill to back it up, sure, go ahead, BM me, but if someone BMs me without genuinely having skill to back it up (Example: I ended the chase in 5 seconds, they only pre-dropped and held W without actually looping me, they didn't do anything the entire match etc.) then it really pisses me off, because you didn't do ANYTHING the entire game, yet you have the audacity to BM me and rub it in my face that I lost, when you don't have the skill to back it up.
I doubt many people started the game as sore winners. You get trained into it in some way. Most sore winning is probably what Scott said, in response, but if you're playing chill you're rarely going to get any bm. Then you have the outliers, which between all of the different reasons for there being an outlier the toxicity seems more prevalent. Had a bad match the match before or a bad night, are legitimately assholes, play when they shouldn't be playing because of their mental/emotional capacity but friends or something else keeps them sucked in. I'm more on the psychotic side, so I kind of get it from a perspective people won't understand or will just scoff at. I don't play killer anymore because I will just be full rage, full evil at all times, winning, losing, everything. I've been banned for toxic behavior, but that's me being unable to handle competition. But it's hard to tell someone like me to stop playing. Games are too much a part of my life, from before I have memories, and I have lots of friends who play. I'm just glad I've been able to pull myself away from killer. Not everyone is going to be able to pull themselves away, though. You're allowing me to kill in a video game to vent? Yeah, that's toxicity waiting to happen. To end my story no-one cares about, I've seen some people become more chill with the game because of comp. That may sound crazy but, at least from the survivor side, I've seen it allow survivors to treat it like a team game. The comp setting helps people change their mentality from "my fun was ruined" to "I hope I did enough to help my team". If people on the survivor side could switch their mindset to that then it would help a lot.
While I agree that someone being a sore winner is usually comes from a place of retribution, ego inflation, and/or superiority (and attempting to disprove personal insecurities about those things), I think there's more to say about why DBD specifically is like this (see: the weirdos going gg ez in my Overwatch 2 quickplay matches >.>), specifically I think a big factor making it worse for DBD is bc it's asymmetrical. Although like you said there's so many variables it's hard to definitively pin down any one thing as the biggest offender, and the true answer is likely a combination of many variables, I think this is still worth talking about more. I think the primary reason DBD has a bigger sore winner problem than other titles is the game's asymmetrical nature. With symmetrical games, it's always at least _theoretically_ fair; barring RNG elements and skill differentials (hence where most toxicity comes from in those games), you have access to mostly the same resources as everyone else and everyone generally has an at least somewhat similar gameplay experience. Valorant is a good example of this; each Agent and gun lends themselves to differing playstyles but both teams are all still shooting a gun and tactically pushing and holding angles to complete an objective. Overwatch is a bit more of a middleground; each Hero and role has quite different playstyles from each other but both teams still have access to the same resources and you're all still filling the same roles and working towards common objectives. Even games with a draft pick system, most of the time you at least theoretically could've still had the resources the other team has but chose not to, and you had access to the same denial of resources as the other team. (Although these games' objectives may be slightly asymmetrical, it's also random so this isn't really a huge factor; no one's rolling their eyes at entitled Defender players in Overwatch or Valorant). Dead by Daylight's asymmetrical nature means that both teams are not only working with entirely different options and resources (made worse by the vast power differencial of optional unlockable resources) or working towards different objectives, they might as well be playing two entirely different games. This disconnect creates a huge gap in understanding between those who only engage with one of the two sides of the game (and being two different games, you can hardly blame people for not having time to/not wanting to play both sides). With this lack of understanding of other people, there's a lack of empathy and it's hard to relate to each other, which makes it easier to feel wronged by or unfairly treated by that other side and thus easier to justify retribution or other toxicity. I also don't think saying this is a skill issue resolves anything (not that you claimed it did, but I wanted to clarify). Like, it's true, but it was already a skill issue with human social self-moderation so it doesn't matter much that it's also a videogame skill issue too. And I don't think dunking on them solves anything either, even if it's kinda funny, telling a sore winner that them doing that is a skill issue for xyz reason would only make things worse. It's a hard thing to improve though. (Stuff like this makes me wish there were more asymmetrical games like DBD that were around and popular for long enough to have a developed and decently sized community so we can easier compare and contrast what variables are impacting this, like other genres like FPS games have plenty of outside examples and precidents to use to diagnose roots of frustrations and such.)
The DbD community being "less toxic" than other communities *does not* invalidate that the community is still toxic. You bring this up every now and then and it doesn't matter one bit. The DbD community can be less toxic than it is. Other game communities can be less toxic than they are. Humanity can be less toxic than it is. This sort of toxicity should be fought against no matter the level it is at and be told that it isn't right. Saying "that's just human nature" is also not the right thing to do, as it is also "human nature" to change. The "people who are just dicks" need to constantly be told that it is not alright to be dicks and that are not welcome until they stop being dicks. As for your main point of the video I guess that sort of thing is true for some people but I don't think it's the majority of them. When I played as Killer I always(1) went for twelve hook games and tried very hard to never hook someone twice in a row AND to never third hook anyone until everyone had been hooked twice. I was a very "fair play Killer". This often lead to me losing games but I didn't care about just getting a four kill "win". I bring this up because often times I'd be getting t-bagged at the exit gate when I had only gotten four or five hooks and it wasn't a close game at all. Often when I had passed up multiple opportunities to tunnel. Just dicks being dicks. No real way of perceiving the game as being unfair. I don't think the majority of sore winners are the type that have "perceived something unfair" nor do I think they are all "just dicks". I think a lot of the sore winners are just people giving back what they've been given. You go from a game where you got face camped and hit on hook so next game when you get out you give that sort of thing back to the Killer, even though it is highly likely it is not the same person who wronged you I saw a little bit of a stream from a Killer Main who was "paying it forward", in that if he had toxic Survivors in his previous match he'd be toxic to his current group. That sort of mind set is a major part of the problem, toxicity begetting toxicity, the cycle needs to stop. (1)For a good long while I was part of the problem and being toxic to people who were toxic to me. If someone rapid clicked or t-bagged at pallets or made "louse noise notifications" outside of chase I'd slug them till they bleed out or face camp them. I realized I didn't want to be that sort of person so I stopped doing that and switched to the "fair play" mode of playing because that's how I wanted others to play. I try and not be a hypocrite, but I don't always succeed in that goal. Thanks for the video Scott.
Ehhh, I used to be a member of the For Honor community for awhile and I'd say dbd's community is worse. I think dbd's community isn't as downright toxic and offensive as the for honor community, but I feel like the dbd community is just more tense and complaints are wayyyyy more common. Also, dbd complaints are posted directly to the main sub on subreddit, which just makes everyone who sees it feel worse. At least the For Honor community made a rant subreddit for the people who are bad at the game. Dbd rants are usually more focused on the player themselves such as, "this player sucks because he camped/tunneled/slugged me" while for Honor rants focus more on hero movesets and gameplay mechanics (although there are still a bunch of people who complain about orochi light spammers, most people complain more about the light spam itself and less about the person taking advantage of it.
Back when ranged blink addons were a thing, if we got more than 1 person out, you are watching me leave. Killers do the same thing if you brought BT, DH, DS, and unbreakablback in the day, and do it still with unbreakable today, and honestly almost any survivor perk that gives you an advantage in chase or being able to take a hit like using buckle up. I've been slugged for 4 minutes for getting someone up with buckle up and even getting someone up using made for this, pre nerf. The game is a mess, and the massive imbalances in the game have created a toxic community within the game.
I think a lot of it isn't even a perception of something being unfair. A lot of it is just perceiving anything that annoys them as being rude, and wanting to be rude back. Like, most half-decent players recognize that bully squads whose entire gameplan centers around forcing the killer to slug and then punishing them for slugging don't tend to be very effective because they aren't doing gens and the killer will always be able to slug harder than the survs can pick each other up with enough persistence, but that kind of playstyle is _extremely annoying_ to go against if you just want to play the game normally, and there's no way that the survivors don't know that it's annoying to play against. It is entirely understandable, at that point, for the killer to have the thought of "these people are intentionally trying to irritate me, and that's rude." And once you've had that thought, it becomes very easy to justify being rude back. And like, obviously, none of this is to say that it's _correct_ for a player to be rude back, by any means (or even that annoying playstyles are necessarily BM), just that in my experience, it's often less of an "I have overcome something unfair" response and more of an "I believe my opponent's playstyle is inherently BM, so I am going to BM them back" response. One could say that the latter is effectively the same as the former, but I would disagree. There's a lot of stuff that's annoying enough to _feel_ like BM when you experience it that is very easy to defeat.
Disagreed on the part where you basically say "the better you are the more you perceive as fair" I believe its more like if you are horrible at the game, you dont really perceive things as unfair except someone tells you its unfair, because you simply dont know what is and is not considered unfair in the community and you dont have enough experience to make a judgement. If you are good at the game you start to perceive things as more and more unfair because you get a better understanding of the game. Especially the ones who are really good at the game (you Scott) often times feel like the match fas unfair, because they just wanna have fun. You dont have fun against a good Nurse with 4 slow downs, so you have only 2 options: Kill yourself on hook or try your best to win maybe overcome the odds and tell the guy behind the screen he is a dick head wether you win or not. I dont feel like being good at the game makes the game less unfair. You can be fucking Otzdarva but if your trying to have some fun on Bubba and the enemy team consists of 4 guys that are gonna have a simple 30 minute chase against you, theres nothing you can do and that feels unfair. Point being: T-bagging at the exit gate/ Nodding on hook isnt a testament of your own skill, rather a reflection of your own believe on how the game is fun to play. TLDR: Scott wrong about Skill=Less T-Bag, cause game no fair.
I'll cop to it. I teabag at exit gates sometimes even if the killers don't "deserve" it. Why? I'm pretty terrible even after 4k hours so it's just pure elation I actually managed to escape in a solo queue match, and it comes out as over-celebrating. I'm not strictly trying to make the killer feel bad. In point of fact, I've forgotten about the human player behind the killer entirely. All I know is monkey brain "They try kill me but me win, hoo hoo".
I’m guessing sore winners are the result of angry people who are fed up on losing over and over so when they win they lash out on the losing players.
This is usually my theory. They must not win very often if they think they need to show thier ass after a victory
It’s emotional incapability. It’s the same people that get cut off in traffic and then immediately cut somebody else off to “feel better”.
yes, that is it exactly, and it's why you see killers do it more
@@HockeyM.M.shut up lmao it's a dbd player issue not survivor or killer issue
i play a bit more try hardy and toxic if i have had hard losses for few rounds and dont regulate my feelings well. i can imagine other players doing just that but more extreme honestly.
I attach electric wires to my nipples. Every second I'm in chase the current gets stronger and stronger. It's the only way to get better at the game, every match of DBD is a literal fight for my life
I dunno man, I think you're just kinky...
Not shaming tho...
Next Michael Scott video
😩
you must be my solo queue survivor pickup
You’re the most skilled DBD player.
"Trash p100 Oni ez game go next" A survivor said to me after 4 escaped...I even put ggwp first. Some people, will just simply never be happy
People can just be incredibly mean for no reason. I was a billy player before his rework, and still am to this day. I always played casual back then and let survivors 4 man out and just focus on chasing everyone cause it makes it fun for everyone. Whenever I would see a streamer in my lobby I would go and listen to them while I played with them cause I enjoyed hearing people's reactions to my gameplay, until one time someone was just insulting me the entire time for literally no reason. Insulting me if I missed a chainsaw, insulting if I hit a chainsaw, it didn't matter. I even still let them escape besides that and they were still jerks about the match. That was the last time I ever went into a stream of someone I either was going to go against or had already finished a match with. Also for the record I have never used streams as a way of getting an advantage on my opponents, of course I would know if they were on a gen or healing but I would just play as if I never heard it.
And had you won they would have said “of course you try hard for a 4k, baby killer”. You can’t ever make people happy
@@vividwizard6166I do that too love hearing the reactions
@@vividwizard6166to be fair for the person insulting you, if he didn’t do it in the endgame chat then it’s fine. Some people might just enjoy insulting people while they play against/with them and that’s fine, as long as they don’t actively attack that person. No one gets hurt when a survivor calls the killer a cunt mid game (and the other way around as well). For most people it’s simply venting.
i feel you bro
another thing I'll point out is that lead to the perception of survs as being more toxic is that survs have more "explicit" ways to be toxic - tunneling and camping are mechanically incentivized and it can be hard to tell the difference between "This guy is tunneling because he's an asshole" and "This guy is tunneling because 3 gens just popped and he needs pressure", while a survivor dropping bags and clicking their flashlight after getting 1 pallet stun is pretty obvious
i think its bad that this is the most wholesome community you've been in
Yea this is by far one of the worst
Only reason slurs aren't said anymore is because BHVR robloxified the damn chat
Absolutely. I completely disagree with his statement about it. DbD's community is BY FAR one of the worst ones ever. 🙄👎
@OOO-yn2ko Nah not even close. Games like Overwatch, League of Legends, and Rainbow Six Siege will have your teammates AND enemies talk shit to you mid match to the end of it. Dbd has the least possibility of having someone displaying toxicity to the other side in general.
@@cyr2097 most toxic gameplay
You also gotta remember not everyone else playing DBD is in their twenties. Some of them are 14. And you can tell, because there is a noticeable increase in people being shitheads during fall, spring, winter break times.
some of them behave immature because they literally are immature. Sometimes its that easy.
Reminds me of a Wraith I played against recently, one of our players DCed right off the bat (could have been unlucky timing, as this had happened to me) so this Wraith, instead of easing up (whixh he is well wothin his right not to do) is onto of us the entire time, none of us could reset nor work on gens. He would slug and "allow" pick-ups, but not full healing, nor allow us to work on gens. Finally he killed all of us, and in the end game he typed "EZ". The way he typed, he had to have been twelve or something because he sounded so immature and was oddly combative when we told him he should have just hooked us all, instead of wasting time. Because he also robbed himself of points by not letting us do gens, chasing us off and then kicking them.
In the end sure, he got the most BP (about 20k) but it was mere pocket change from what he could have gotten if he had played, not correctly, but hadn't played like a dick the entire time.
I have always noticed in gaming that is more often the grown ass adults are the shitheads rather than the literal children who will just say they tucked your mom. And generally people scapegoating children are the ones being the most toxic
Just last week i was playing knight for adept against a ttv. I 4ked but tried to play nicely without tunneling, proxying, etc. and i only used my power to patrol and bother gens rather than the boring anti loop style
But despite that the ttv called me sweaty, a tunneler, a loser etc etc
I went to their chat to say "hey, im sorry it was a tough match, i wouldve given hatch if not for the adept, i had fun and i hope you did too, and i hope theres no hard feelings" and he apologized in turn saying hes been having one bad match after another and was just generally frustrated with the game. He also said my skin was really cool uwu
Point is, whether youre the frustrated one or on the receiving end of someone's frustration, you never know what the other player is going through and should show kindness regardless. The best way to stop the cycle of players making each other angry is by being good sports, showing kindness, and not giving in to our rude thoughts.
Its our job as the community to make the community a nicer place for everyone, so do your part no matter how small it may be.
I get you, but it depends. I recently had a survivor message me saying "Trash Billy, get reported" after I got a 4k. I would blatantly leave survivors I just hooked and didn't tunnel, didn't camp, and even let a survivor do a glyph. If I had the power to do so, I would have banned them from playing DBD for a while, if not indefinitely. Reporting people (whether it amounts to anything or not) because you're upset you lost is just too far. Some people don't deserve charitability and deserve the blowback
The whole waiting at the exit gate for the entire countdown is one of the most baffling confusing forms of passive aggressive behavior I’ve ever seen. It literally makes no sense at all.
In all my years of killer I can’t even begin to count how many times I played 100% fair 2 hooked everyone and they all escape but wait at the exit gate for the entire countdown for literally no reason and then message me to get cancer and kill myself. It’s the weirdest thing I’ve ever seen.
I just go around the map, break pallets, practice techs, and talk with my chat while the survivor does nothing.
@@Doncroft1 yea I’d usually just put the controller down and go pee or get a drink etc etc. they only ever wasted their own time.
@@TravisTLCdrummingI remember the 2nd game I was playing Clown, and it was probably around 5 hours of playing in general. I tried to play nice and even went after the stronger runner when everyone else was 2 hooks, but all four escaped and teabagged me at the end of the match since I stopped pressuring the players actually doing gens. I messaged the one playing on Xbox about why they decided to teabag a player that was new, and they just said it was part of the game. I couldn’t help but laugh.
lol and I’ve seen people make the excuse that they do it so that the killer can go kick pallets.
Like yeah sure, the killer was super thankful for the extra minute they spent in the game to get 500 bp kicking pallets instead of just leaving to go onto the next game.
Reasons behind a sore winner:
Scott: Overcoming something that a person perceived as unfair.
Me: Some people just want to watch the world burn.
DBD turns everyone playing it into the joker one way or another. All it takes is one bad day...
Im not normally a toxic person unless somebody shit talks me then I defend myself, BUT there was a time against a skull merchant that tried to 3 gen on haddonfield. We escaped, I said "fuck you and fuck this killer" and I went next so I do feel like there are cases where that is the reason
@@vividwizard6166 Basement Bubba's had to be born somewhere. Perhaps we are the monsters behind them.
@@LargeToastie What are you talking about? They are extinct by now.
The only thing that really gets to me about sore winners is just the refusal to be honest with themselves. The "tbagging at the gates and waiting for the killer isnt bm" crowd are the dumbest people in this game.
I dont normally go into endgame chat to argue with people but yesterday I had a group that played for GOJ in a four man with bgp (run what you want but dont be an ass about it) and swore up and down they didnt want GOJ after tbagging at the gates while I just wanted a daily. Lo and behold I get them again an hour later and they play a map offering to Borgo, they die at 5 and dont GG back. Shocker.
It really boils down to entitlement, refusal to admit one's wrongs, and not understanding what led to the win. People genuinely refuse to believe they're bad and that it wasn't the map/perks that hard carried them. There's a reason the same perks are run, the same maps are burnt for. Mostly by survivors. Not to mention it's 4v1 in game, and the chat. Sometimes the other players will call out the other(s) for being a dick, but more often than not they'll straight up enable the behavior and join in. Can't tell you how often I've gone for 12 hook only to be met with pure vitriol. However, if I play to win and match the energy I'm still a noob killer who I should [insert insult here]. You can't win against those types of players.
Yeah... the same thing can be said about d*ck killers though.
You're a killer main so I understand your "mostly by survivors" pov but let's not ignore the facts here: DbD's community IS ONE OF THE WORST ever. So BOTH killers and survivors can be despicable. There's no "survs are worse" here.
Like Scott said, some ppl are just "bad". So those come with the territory and there's nothing you can do about it. But for the most part this is a case of a very toxic community spawning very toxic members. Simple as that.
If all killers would play nice survivors will do it too. But when you have abusing killers... you're just multiplying abusing survs. And thus the endless toxic cycle begins. 🤷♂
ngl slugging a sabo squad for the kill is poetic - i like it.
the 0 hook 4k lmfao
I had to do that once, just cause they also brought the oak addons, and then they cried about slugging. Well, if they dont wanna be near a hook, they wont ever be.
@@felix135fulgod forbid a survivor bring tools made to help them win lmao
@@nathangothan601 God forbid the killer play around the tools the survivors bring...
@@russeshe001 slugging and bleeding out is a reportable offense for griefing/not playing the game as intended.
The bleed out feature isn’t a way you’re *supposed* to kill survivors - it’s to keep them and the killer from holding the game hostage for an hour.
@@nathangothan601 slugging and bleeding out isn't a reportable offense its a strategy because then sabo squads could be considered as a reportable offense cause they are not doing the objective and holding the game hostage to some degree
I just like to think I’m playing against 4 Eric Cartmans who are just whiny
If you were going against 4 Eric Cartmans and winning against them, your whole bloodline would be going into chili.
@@callofduty2551I don’t understand this joke but it’s fucking hilarious
@@maximusthegoat8034 an episode of south park “Scott tenniman must die”
He bullies cartman, so Cartman kills his parents and feeds them to him in a bowl of chilli as part of a prank.
@@maximusthegoat8034 Look up Eric Cartman and chili contest.
@@maximusthegoat8034 Ask Scott Tenorman. He'll tell you all about it.
You probably will have to look for him at some insane asylum though, a la Mikey Myers. 💀
Scott is objective… i recently just got dbd for PC and in no other game do i constantly get steam comments on my profile of people just crying and complaining, now ofc there are people like this everywhere specifically in dbd like 1 out of 5 matches there is always someone so rude in endgame chat and then comment on my profile with nothing but negativity. Community is 100% toxic
Do you play killer by any chance? I feel like people who main killer have to deal with this a lot more. I mean I know its 4v1 so you see 4x the amount of survivors, but I have like 1300ish hours almost all survivor and only ever got like 3 bad comments. All from other team mates.
Usually negative comments towards those people who play a killer who is unlike (skull merchant, knight, or legion with never sleep pill addon) and start tunneling at 5 gens awhile proxy camp on first hook.
@@yesh9602 yeah i mostly play killer. In no other game i see this much negativity, i’m playing rn reading this comment and had 2 different people call me a loser, and one even left another comment on my steam page. Its just the default response for like half the people that play dbd
@@westdannyjr from what i’ve learned from all my hours on killer, it seems more of just the entitlement of survivors having the game go their way. I play alot of trapper and freddy, and still get comments the same as if i were playing Good Guy or Nurse. To me, it just seems dependent on who the survivor is, and if they are in a good mood or not
I feel your pain brother. If I had a dollar every time I've been told to off myself, or that I do nothing but play games in my moms basement on my steam page comments, I'd be rich. And in no other game I play, jave people do that. I feel I play pretty fair aswell so I can imagine how bad it is for people who consistently tunnel and camp. Try not to let it bug you. Quite honestly I find a lot of the comment I get amusing
This video was made as a DIRECT ATTACK to the Quentin that spun Scott.
Yeah, even as a survivor main, I have to admit, some of us are little shits who will teabag and flame the killer for so much as breathing in their direction. I can understand being upset if the killer played like a dick, but the amount of times I see solo-queue teammates teabagging a killer who went out of their way to play as nice as possible makes my blood boil.
Not saying killers don't do similar things (they absolutely do) but you get to see it way more often with survivors, and usually completely unprovoked.
If I get a survivor who tbags after predropping the first pallet they get too I will go out of my way to tunnel them out for it😂
Carrying a survivor to a hatch and closing it is probably the most egregious version of this I've seen.
The amount of matches where I make the conscious decision to not hook someone again right away even if I find them fully healed so they won't cry about "tunneling" only for a 4 man escape when I had 8 hooks and still t-bag and say shit like "ez" on post-game chat is staggering.
This is why I'll never advocate to play fair 24/7. Survivors claim to care about fairness but they don't recognize when it's happening.
Don't ever feel the need to be responsible for the other players' fun.
You're not wrong here, I have found this to be very common. I won't tunnel but if a survivor does something like you said, I'm just gonna take it. At the end of the day, they made a mistake. The tunnel is of their own doing, so it's fair game imo.
Playing fair in no way is gonna make other people respectful, which is why I will not go out of my way to play fair. You give me an easy hook or kill, I'm taking it regardless of what happened beforehand.
Going out of your way to play fair, it's just not worth it because the bagging and "watch me leave" mindset does not care about how nice we play.
Play YOUR game, worry about YOUR fun.
@@WutTheDeuceGamingthe best part is that the people who are good people and don’t rage at the other side generally don’t care if you play sweaty or tunnel and will still say GGWP but the entitled survivors will take advantage if you cater to them and be Mr. Nice guy and will be assholes anyway, you can’t make them happy and the sooner you accept it that makes playing dbd more enjoyable
@@WutTheDeuceGaming Skill issue + baby ego. Grow up.
@@dakota9821 oh dear the redditor arrived with his + signs between every two words. I hope everyone is taking shelter this comment section is about to have a fowl smell.
You can hide the chat
As someone who's also been in the COD, R6, OW, LOL, SMITE, and other various other known toxic communities,, DBD is definitely up there IMO lol.
The difference is those games are balanced better than dbd. Dbd is almost impossible to perfectly balance yet they decided to add mmr 😂
I don't know, as someone who was part of the R6 community for a long time, they were pretty toxic.
@@dineez627 Yeah?... That's why I mentioned them lol
Dbd is the only game I have ever played where I have seen someone be a sore winner when they have actually lost the match.
The toxicity in dbd is so cheesy it’s funny honestly, “omg he’s tbagging and flash light clicking” 😂
I mean, I generally agree with pretty much everything said here, minus one part. I (personally) hate the idea of "if you want to have an enjoyable match and not get tunneled out of your mind you didn't bring the -right build-"
I've always hated the idea of NEEDING to bring a build almost 100% of the time just to avoid one person who could just.... not do that. It's like "let's just not be able to use 50% of the perks because I wanna bring DS" *DS buys you nothing because of poor map rng, killer redowned you and kills you anyway.
"Okay well then I'll bring deliverance, OTR, and DS every match!"
But like... that's just as lame as seeing pop, pain res, sloppy every game too. There should definitely be a much bigger effort to find a way to make the game more dynamic and feel like you're not throwing if you do it.
My solution was just bringing the meme build regarless and loosing a lot so now my mmr is kinda low so not bringing META perks isnt as detrimental, on the other hand my teammates are also kinda new (dont wanna say they are bad per se) so it balances itself out haha
@randalloses2748 and that is fine, but it shouldn't be a stale "this build is how uou have an okay match" at higher levels. That is boring, and ultimately benefits no one, especially people who may not want to buy those characters as well. (I have all of them, but other people do not)
It should just.... be not shitty? Lol
@@AlexTheFurboi It would be nice if you had some good ideas for how to go about that. A meta will always exist unless everyone is on the same exact playing field, and there's not really a way to do more than discourage tunneling. Perhaps they could introduce a fuckton of new perks so that there's more viable options to choose from, but seeing how hard it is to release a few perks per update without one or multiple being busted or broken, I don't think that's gonna happen.
@SuperDdall I do not know what the solution is, as the current game and game play is complicated and hard to fix. That doesn't mean they shouldn't attempt to put some thought into it.
They have already shown that they are not against making certain aspects of certain perks base kit (see Borrowed time as an example to try and make tunneling a little less annoying)
I'm not sure, and I'm no expert. Any idea I give would have an equal amount of the community at my throat for daring to alter the balance, but regardless of all of that, my point still stands. That is lame and boring to be required to bring the same perks. Metas do exist, yes, but usually playing off meta doesn't actively make you unable to play in a quite hefty amount of circumstances.
Playing off meta in Siege, for example, yes you are not at the advantage you would be if you ran meta, but you are not doomed to die just because you didn't.
"I guess you should have just brought the AUG instead! Oh? You don't wanna buy that character? I guess you just can't play!" That is unreasonable in any other game, it's time to stop pretending it's okay here.
@@AlexTheFurboi I mean you went ahead and mentioned the BT change, so I'm unsure why you are acting like they're not trying? I mean don't get me wrong I don't care for Behavior but they have made a decent effort as of recently.
I feel it's a bit questionable and maybe even disingenuous to use Siege as a comparison here, especially focusing on guns and not the operator abilities which are most certainly a more obvious comparison between the two. The games similarities end with "is a game" and "has a meta".
You can use different guns in Siege for the same reason you can use different guns in CoD and do good -- the TTK is very short. The differences aren't that big because no matter what you use as long as you're hitting your shots nobody's gonna survive very long. In a game like Halo, the weapon you are using can be a LOT more decisive due to the TTK being much longer. But ultimately shooters are not a good comparison because they're not the same kind of game at all.
Perks are, well, pretty obviously different in every way. They give you new abilities, they can alter mechanics or add mechanics. They are not just pew pews that do the same exact thing just in a different way (though there are some that do). What this means is that they are both impactful and much more diverse when compared to a gun in Siege. Some perks are just conceptually better than others and no amount of balance changes can fix that. It is the nature of the system.
It is what it is. Nobody likes it but it's inevitable and no good solution that perfectly solves it exists as far as I'm aware. Besides, of course, removing perks entirely.
its most annoying when you play killer and the gates are open but every surv waits till the last second of the endgame collapse to leave, ik you could push them out but I dont want to give them the satisfaction of tbaging at the end
then you're winning by wasting their time when they think they're wasting your time
I love it when those idiots do that. I start kicking pallets, doors, or spamming my ability for extra points. I certainly won't give them the satisfaction of walking to each exit gate just to watch them leave. I genuinely don't care.
@@HockeyM.M. It doesn't feel like that.
I wonder how many hours of my life could have not been spent waiting to move on with my life on a normal basis.
"don't want to give them the satisfaction" so it's equally petty and you're not the victim but hopefully you're aware of that
@@cake2531 I don't know how validating some survivor that wants to teabag at the exit gate is somehow petty on my part. But at least your logic makes sense to you, just you know, nobody else on Earth.
I think it mainly comes from people who play only one side - eventually they get to the point where they don't see people queuing up for the opposite role as people anymore, just another 'Killer' or 'Survivor' that they see as their mortal enemy with little regard to any actual person behind the screen
Excellent take. I recall Otzdarva saying something in a video once along the lines of "Be humble in victory, and be gracious in defeat". That's a lesson that's good, not just for DBD or any game/sport, but in life in general.
Also, people who are sore winners should remember that there's only one "best in the world" at something. Unless you're that "one", there's always someone out there better than you are, and you may run up against them at some point.
I quote, and i cannot express this enough -
"Again"
"Let me reiterate"
"Again"
Survivor reasons to be a sore winner, if the killer does any of the following:
Playing a killer they don't like
Using a perk they don't like
Sent to a map they don't like
Using a charm/cosmetic they don't like
Hooking the same person twice in a row without hooking someone else first
Chasing the same person for more than 30 seconds
Didn't leave the hook soon enough or stayed near the hook
Coming back to the hook after a save instead of going after someone on the other side of the map
Trying to avoid/bypass someone who is bodyblocking
Downing someone who bodyblocked with BT
Kicked/patrolled gens too much
Left somebody on the ground too long
Found somebody that was trying to be stealthy
Looked at the wall when picking up, or otherwise avoided being blinded
Avoided/predicted/countered a perk/build the survivor was trying to use
Existing
Breathing
Standing
Killer reasons to be a sore winner, if the survivors do any of the following:
Using a perk they don't like
Using an item they don't like
Using a survivor/charm/cosmetic they don't like
Having a username they don't like
Sent to a map they don't like
Suspected of being in a party
Vault the same window several times
Get too many pallet stuns
Get too many grasp escapes/saves
Last more than 30 seconds in chase
Crouching of any manner
Any kind of gesture of any kind
Try to bodyblock for any reason
Doing gens too close to the killer
Being too helpful to their team
Not being helpful enough to their team
Trying to play stealthy or being too difficult to find
Being too brazen and trying to get the killer's attention
Making too many noise notifications
Dodging/trying to dodge a killer's attack
Rescue a teammate too close to the killer
Avoided/predicted/countered a perk/build/power the killer was trying to use
Existing
Breathing
Standing
Honestly, being a sore looser is one thing. Its understandable salt, because many losses in a row can be exhausting mentally.
But being a sore winner, is just mega cringe. Congratulations, your bullyed a new player or a player who was just trying to relax.
Bullying is highly overused. Bullying is not teabagging. Bullying is using slurs or awful remarks.
I agree with you on the community being not as toxic as some. However the problem is that the gameplay itself breeds toxicity. Merely playing to win in some cases can be seen as toxic behaviour. Tunnelling being the most obvious culprit. This gets confused for toxic behaviour and thus the level of toxicity within the community is misjudged,
Scott do the Scott shaker
the Jund shaker
i know he can shake it
The Vile Shaker
The only time i tbag at exit gates is when i or a teammate successfully gets to one after being camped/tunneled not when we get a 4 man escape, i usually feel bad for them and leave my item behind as a parting gift
Exactly sometimes people have bad games we all do I usually like leaving my item to and then instantly leaving to show I'm not gonna be toxic
I played siege for the first time in years and an hour in I was invited to an enemy team’s party so they could all tell me to off myself one after another
This matches pretty well with reality. I've had quite a few friends that say that the Killer is "tunneling", when in reality he has hooked someone else and they even got healed, but they still say they were tunneling for no reason. And you guessed it, the worse the player, the more he complains. Players who are good rarely complain about tunneling, and often even want the Killer to tunnel them (me for example, but not because I'm good, just because I love chases).
@@Timothee_Chalamet_CMBYN I know, and completely get that, but you absolutely ignored my first point. Which is that the people who complain, rarely even suffer tunneling, you can't complain someone is tunneling you when they clearly are not. Also, the most fun part about DbD is the Killer-Survivor interaction, and it's the reason the game is fun most of the time. The reason people complain about getting tunneled is that they are bad at the game, if someone tunnels you and you survive you're having the time of your life and tbag the fuck out of the Killer at the end (and you are absolutely entitled to, Killers who take the easy way out are just as stupid as people who complain about tunneling). The thing is tunneling is only unfun when the Killer is better than you, and most people don't want to learn to position better, to path better, to learn how to consistently get fast vaults, learn map layouts, etc... And that is completely on you. You can't complain someone is playing the game and just because they are better you start crying and kicking because you can't last long enough in chase. Get better, learn, and kick Killer's asses next time. That is the point of the game.
I've definitely slugged a sabo squad before. Not because I felt like it was impossible to win, but because it was annoying. I don't see a problem with that
Yeah, I agree. In Elden Ring everyone thinks everything is unfair, but that's because they're complete doo doo at the game. They'd see that the things they complain about are not a big deal if they were at least half decent. Makes a lot of sense.
It really does baffle me when people say that dbd has a really toxic community, I think I've had more gg messages in this game than anything else I've played, it's very open and accepting for all kinds of people too.
I know its an overused meme but the people chatting about how toxic dbd is wouldn't have lasted a day in 2009 cod lobby, the shit I used to hear back then was crazy.
Playing killer sent me right back to playing survivor. T-bagging at the exit gate is aggravating or whatever but constant end-game chat toxicity when they win / checking my profile and making personal attacks is why I set my profile private. Might have to go private to do killer challenges. Inb4 I don't purposely camp/tunnel run meta etc
One of the only times I bled survivors out for the full 4 minutes was when I was playing this stupid-ass RPD match, and I had killed 2 players with 3 gens remaining. They managed to do 1 of em, then stealthed around. I thought alright I’ll just go patrol the gens for a bit and find em, and after like 15 minutes of checking every corner anywhere near the gens, I found them crouching and just hiding out near the banisters in the main building, so after I finally found them, after they had wasted my time by literally doing nothing, I wasted their time and bled em out for 4 minutes while I went and got a cinnamon roll. I wouldn’t have even dreamt of doing it if they hadn’t been planning to just sit there hiding and wasting my time when they had already lost
I play only killer and if the gates open, I stopped contesting them like a year ago. I just run to the other side of the map and kick Gens. You'd be shocked how many survivors flame me after the game because they didn't get a chance to teabag at the exit gates 😂
Sore winners tend to stab themselves in the feet by staying in when certain perk triggers
Gonna disagree on one thing here: If we're talking the broad community, including social media, DBD probaly has one of the worst communities out of any game short of League and WoW.
As for sabo squads: If you go out there with the objective of trolling a random killer, you shouldn't be surprised when they bleed you out just to troll you back.
I actually don’t mind it if players easily beat me. Whether it be as Killer or Survivor. But what does tilt me a lot if when they deliberately stall. Such as just waiting by the exit during endgame or just watching someone bleed out after everyone else has been eliminated
I disagree with the "Self Report" argument. You can beat something 100% of the time and still think it is unfair even if you are obviously so much better that you can overcome the other player.
The thing that comes to mind for example is Gank squads in Dark Souls that summon a duelist then try to gank them. A lot of the time, those players are bad enough that you can still wreck them, but that doesn't mean you can't still think what they did was unfair after you beat them.
Ive never understood being tunneled as being annoying, the most enjoyable part of the game is being chased so if I'm being chased all game then that's just a win in my books. Obviously there are certain times where tunneling means u are killed quickly but most of the time I only see it as a good thing because I'm participating in the most enjoyable part of the game. Being chased.
I'm 100% tbagging every double iri blight I manage to somehow escape against
I really gotta disagree with you man. There's a LOT of busted addons, killer powers, offerings, etc in this game that anyone but a 4 man comp team would struggle against. And even some that comp teams lose to. I agree with your point overall, but I think that this game is one of the few games where at least a fifth of the matches you play will feel awful because of flaws in game design. Whether that be a busted killer like nurse or spirit with 4 slowdowns, a killer who's power has little counterplay like chucky or alien's tail, or a swf with a map offerings and background player to name a few. There's a lot in this game that feels like bullshit at all levels of play.
I think the only time it’s ok to be “sore” in a game is if the game genuinely robs you of something or being sore with yourself if you mess up when you hold yourself to high standards
Speak for yourself when you constantly get steam rolled for 13 games straight
@@TimmyDatooth-fr5dfat that point why keep playing that night? Somedays we are just unlucky or whatever its better to take the L and play something else for the day if you are actually being railed 13 games in a row
@@randalloses2748 I mean I'd agree with you but MMR doesn't care when you stop it will be right there when you come back
balls
This community is one of the most toxic I've ever interacted with. Everyone acts entitled, whiny, and just cry like babies. Mostly Survivors if you don't play by their rules, never slug, tunnel or camp. It's not because of the toxicity, it's because people who play this game think they're better than everyone else. or have the right opinions simply because they makes videos on the game, or have 10k hours on it. Either way, people look into it too deep for no reason.. get off the game if you're upset.
Dbd is the only game where i get messages from salty players regularly on console its the most toxic community ive been in
@@spade8388DBD is the only community PC players will have console accounts just to message toxicity at you. It's wild man. At least that's my experience
Also I will say that sore winners and toxicity is not RARE in any case. Could be remembering negative experiences more, but I swear everytime I play dbd 2/3 matches there is teabagging survivors regardless of match.
That's curious to me because certain things are just known to be an uphill battle or playing on easy mode. If someone queued up for soloq, they know they are playing the hardest game mode the game has to offer. If they play in a clock SWF, then they know they are playing the easiest game mode. Same with Killer selections with a Nurse or Trapper. That being said, I've only seen this 'injustice' BMing to be true for Survivor. The baby Meg got tunneled and the remaining 3 players escape, they bag at the gates because the Killer didn't let Meg play. I've seen it more often retributive for someone else, more than their own overcoming adversity.
Whenever I am BMed by a Killer (or a soloq teammate), it just seems like it was someone having a bad day/life taking it out on other people. I had a Nemesis while I was duoing with a friend, and an AFK from the start (the Killer knew from the AFK crows and the zombies downing the AFK 2 minutes in) and he hooked us until it was down to 1 person with hatch. He found hatch and closed it while I was the only Surv left, and he simply refused to pick me up for 3m59s (technically ~3m since he already bled me out earlier for a minute for no reason also). I was under hook for 90s before I started to crawl away and he refused to pick up, only tentacle swinging at my body on the ground over and over. He even slow walked following me crawling away, despite hatch already being closed and being slugged the entire time. That is the norm though being BMed as Survivor. No reason, no logic, just pure someone showing their scumbag nature to their core.
I agree with all of this. Though I would rather say the killers who do this I think are salt farming. May well be cos their life sucks, but the profile comments, post-game comments, etc. usually suggest they find it funny.
Worst gaming community Ive ever experienced
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Out of my 20 years of gaming DBD is BY FAR most toxic. It’s because the whole Us VS Them dynamic. Not only is it toxic in game but also in end game chat/ Reddit, DBD Forums, UA-cam and TikTok Comments. There are entire channels dedicated to BMing killers/ survivors and hurling slurs at them mid match and they are very popular.
I get what you're saying but let's not let "skill issue" blind you or anyone else from the truths, DBD has some busted shit aite? Eyrie of Crows on M1 killer is misery, being tunnelled on a map with many deadzones like say Rotten Fields isn't fun either. Spirit and Blight got some nerfs so please don't pretend that DBD is some masterpiece of a game balance wise. It's not and, it feels like the salt is justified when facing top tier killers/addons/one sided maps. There is some merit in your words tho, when I was new I teabagged at gates too because of how frustrated killers made me + how shit the maps are, then I played killer for their Adepts in the old system and it knocked some empathy into me, killers don't always have it easy y'know.
I won't pretend to be above it, when I faced Tombstone Myers on RPD the other week sure I didn't type anything in chat but I was trash talking him so hard because how stressed out he made me having to be alert the ENTIRE fucking time, checking all my angles like it's Rainbow Six Siege all over again and prerunning as SOON as I saw him instead of a nice back and forth, some stress, some moments of calm (spoilers I escaped but it's my best map). But if a killer/survivors had a rough game and I'm in a charitable mood? "awww, I feel bad for you dudes", as killer I'll dial it back or even become friendly and as survivor, I'll take my W with grace and just leave, or offer him a kill.
sometimes I win, sometimes I lose, but at all times I'm sore because I slipped and fell this morning.
Not gonna lie, even I do this sometimes. I've more than once given someone nodders or hit them on hook because they use Background Player or Bucke Up/FTP or something. If I'm annoyed by the survivors' choices, I'll get a little spicy like that. Can't imagine people actually being toxic in chat over shit like that though.
I think it’s more about players not liking certain killers it isn’t exactly the gamer behind the killer that’s being played. I remember around 2019 survivors t-bagged me then dc’d in front of my face and I asked why did they t-bag me and they told me they were sorry it’s just that they don’t like Freddy whatsoever lmao.
I pretty much never BM, ever. When I play survivor (a role I'm not very good at), I always try to exit as soon as possible unless teammates need help or just to heal for the extra points.
I mostly play killer and I always try to not only to not BM directly, but also not to hook the same person twice unless a lot of time has passed since the last hook. Despite that, I still get the occasional shitty survivor(s) with the teabag and clicks, but I just "gg" and move on. I also still get the random "-rep tunnel and camp" comment in my profile, but those are a badge of honor, to be honest.
The only time I BM'd someone was a stupid survivor who was not only trying to mess with me instead of doing objectives, but doing things such as throwing pallets in front of other survivors to block them during chase. I ended up slugging them at the end only to close the hatch in their face when they found it and letting them bleed out. They somehow claimed I was "SO MAD!" in endgame chat and threatened to report me. The cherry on top was they were in a duo and they were messing with the other non-premade survivors.
i've played DBD for a good long while now, which according to my PS App is about 1605 hours as of writing this. and i've not had much in the ways of sore winners. though i have had people who tbag at exit gate sometimes. but the one sore winner i really had, was during a match where i played as Tiffany on Haddonfield i believe. i get a 3K & then looking for the last survivor. now i'm not gonna resort to say they were cheating, but i couldn't find them whatsoever. anyway. i end up finding the hatch to close it, and i patrol the exit gates. then somehow, one of them got opened. and t he last survivor was tbagging all the way out more or less. and then after the match, they messaged me cause we were on PSN. and they spouted all kinds of crap, talking bout how they outsmarted me and bitching bout my perks. and what makes this even more stupid and also kinda pathetic. is they were playing in anonymous mode. and here they are, messaging me showing me who they are. and they were in a SWF as well, cause someone else who was on PSN. i was talking to them (who btw was super chill) told me they were in a SWF and it was a friend of theirs
I do agree to a extent because when you go up against a Bully squad or a sabo squad its just not fun even if you win or just good at the game the loop of it all is not fun. It honestly gets boring because there is no counter play its just a war of nutrition. Because I've seen Players post videos of them doing head on Sabo flash lights ect. Its funny because I never dealt with it But if i was there it would be not fun. If i did down any players like that I either try to hook and if they show me I can't I will just down them all and wait it out.
going out of your way to ruin a players day is not great. Because its a flip of a coin you either get a decent killer who cracks under pressure like that or some players that do stick it out but will vocally say the match was not fun or just ignore them block those players and go next. The list goes on imo. (I can keep going)
0:39 Nothing wrong with this unless it bleeds out and you harass other people. I don't want other people having fun I think causing the extreme most amount of suffering is really enjoyable. But i'd never talk post game or make a dumb twitter or reddit thread about it.
It’s just a game, ppl will be toxic no matter what. People shoot bodies in call of duty and talk shit even when they’re losing lmao. There’s no point in even having a conversation about this since this will forever be a thing in the gaming world.
In my opinion, being a sore winner is never juatified, if you come across someone nasty, you should always be the better person instead of stooping to their level, the number of assholes just goes up by 1.
Also, literally everyone should keep the endgame chat permanently disabled.
In my opinion there’s “tunneling” and tunneling, survivors who get unhooked sometimes stay injured and run to do gens and a killer will run around a while and then find them or a group and go for them cause they are the injured one and the survivor goes down and gets mad and then there’s the people who straight up follow you after first hook at 3-4 gens
Scott gets it. These are my thoughts exactly, I just have a hard time explaining to people what I'm really trying to say and this video was worded perfectly.
Scott Rants are my favorite lunch content
I don't think it's a good idea to look at content creators when looking at such phenomenon because they have a social image, a reputation to hold that binds them to not act as such dickheads as random players can.
from my experience this happens way too much even without any provocation from the other side. sure, if the killer tunnels someone out at 5 gens and then still plays so bad that they get 3 man outded, who cares, BM them at the gate and "gg ez" them, I get it. but there is so many games where people are just being assholes for absolutely no reason, several examples that all happened within the last few weeks of me playing:
- I was playing solo survivor, we got a deathslinger that was clearly not very experienced, only got 4 hooks or so and everyone escaped. random teammates in the endgame chat were like "gg ez lol, so bad, deathslinger? more like flopslinger haha" - no reason for that but being an asshole.
- I was playing doc and got garden of joy, I played fair despite the shit map but still got "gg ez'd - you suck" in the endgame chat, as if wininng on the most surv sided map in the game against an M1 killer was anything sepcial. similar thing also happend a few days ago where I was playing nurse for a daily, I'm a bad nurse so I got 4 man outed and holy shit these people were so mad simply because I was playing nurse, the BM simply for my killer pick that I'm not even good with was insane.
I could name even more examples and I also see this quite often on streams I watch, sometimes one side just gets overly aggressive for no reason. that's what sore winners are for me, you had a completely normal game, you won, yet you're being a massive asshole about it. it's somthing I just don't understand.
Every time iget a "ggez" i respond with "if youre bitter, come off the game buddy, it aint that deep". Gets em to shut up every time :D
I lose 20 solo q games in a row, I finally win one, I escape immediately without stopping at the gate or t bagging. I have no enemies.
The imbalance that I think you're missing is what the effects of being toxic are on either side. The worst that a toxic survivor can do to a killer is emote at them, and they can and will actively ruin the entire game for other survivors. A killer can force survivors out, or they'll eventually run out of resources/make a mistake. But when a killer decides to bleed out a survivor, or trap them in a corner, or camp them in an inescapable location, that match is not just immediately ruined for that player, but they're forced to sit there for an extended period of time dealing with it, just for the game to smack them with a "YOU FAILED" at the end of it.
Of course, this is not counting the legion of gameplay mechanics that Reddit/Twitter killers have decided are toxic/BM, which include basically all survivor perks, most survivor items, and existing at all in the game. Like, fuck, I saw a mod of the DBD subreddit say that if survivors split up on gens at the start of the match, or work on gens while injured, that's toxic because they're rushing the objective. Survivor complaints about toxicity mostly revolve around not being able to play the game and engage with its mechanics, while killer complaints about toxicity mostly revolve around emoting and survivors having mechanics at all.
Even without bm and trying to gain pressure and survivors love to bag me and roast me in EGC when im just trying to move on and say gg yk
I find it kinda interesting scott gets more sore winners as killer than as survivor. The only times I really get sore winners is on killer and its usually when I do something EXTREME, and I dont mean dbd entitled surv main extreme (which usually means you didnt actually even do it) I mean like extremes like slugging for long long periods or camping pretty hard or something equally BM'y. As a survivor however, I have gotten so many sore winners playing against killers for usually just playing the game, looping too long, cleansing their favorite hex, using certain perks etcetc.
I think killers are whinier than survivors honestly. People like to say that survivors constantly complain about everything or that they feel entitled to win, but killers basically complain about every survivor perk as well. I get way more salt playing survivor than I do killer, though I main perkless billy and don’t tunnel so maybe I’m missing out on something.
is he even aware that he listed a bunch of toxic games and then compared a toxic game to them and said it was less toxic, dbd is like top 10 percentile of toxic games easily if not top 5 and I have played entirely too many games, people are genuinely hateful and malicious in dbd to the point where it would be shocking to find that level of dedication to malfeasance in another game, like people have went out of their way in a game THEY WON to go into people's streams and attack them with spambots because they were mad they felt like they got wrecked despite winning, there is no sore winning or sore losing in dbd, the game is in a state of perpetual soreness regardless of outcome practically oozing with bitterness a common example being those people that complain that every killer is out to get them and are all disgusting tunnelers right after they run right at the killer off hook and bodyblock
Yeah that body blocking always annoys me, like buddy I don´t want to tunnel you but if you abuse your endurance like that you going to tunnel town.
i just dont like MMR, i hate having a couple good games, then i get curve billies, sweaty nurses where there is not much of a chance... i just want to search a lil chest, do a lil boon, then do a lil gen... but if i'm not spending every single second min/maxing and doing a gen, learning every single perk that has ever existed to try and avoid it... its so boring, because then you can still lose, or get survivors who don't try, or give up, or the killer is just so unforgiving... its tough, I think mmr needs to go so that some games are easy, some medium, some hard... not easy for a couple hours then BALLS TO THE WALLS HOLY SMOKES CURVE SPIN, USING UR MISTAKE AGAINST U DIE! like jesus.
I respectfully disagree with you on some points.
A killer comes in with a mori (and we know most secret offerings are moris not that 'Shroud of Separation', no one uses that unless its to play mindgames). and tunnels me or a survivor when there are 4 or 5 gens left?
If I or that survivor manages to get to the exits gates?
I WILL BUTT DANCE AND MAKE TEA. Even moreso if it's a top tier killer like nurse, blight, spirit, etc...
If you have 1 sore winner per match, 4 in 5 times that player will be a survivor. I was slugged and relentlessly humped by a Huntress once because of something on my stream profile (I know this because they left a comment), no hard feelings; when playing killer survivors sometimes let comments telling me I'm trash at the game, or that I tunneled/ camped them, some wholesome survivors call me cute/ good sport, some killers call me baby surv ez, some compliment my looping; you get all kinds of people.
I agree DBD does have a mostly wholesome community, not even just by comparison, me and all people that I've become acquainted with through DBD have mostly positive interactions in the game. I truly believe that players who think DBD is full of toxicity either: don't know what toxicity is; play in ways that invite toxic behaviour; or forget about the neutral/ positive interactions and only remember the negative ones.
I guess playing CoD and CS:GO in the past made me not care about what dumb kids say.
The reason is I can play with DS, DH, Windows and Distortion...all my matches but I noticed I escape alone, and makes altruism harder....makes these games more boring specially going against Trapper, Wraith, etc you know those mid tier killers, but if I try a more relaxed build like Botany, Bond, WGLF, maybe nefted MFT then you get those insane P100 killers or Nurse/Blight - I guess all im saying is I wish we got the info on the killer or to know if we wanna game or really compete
I'm sorry scott, but 10 seconds into the video i gotta say: all the communities you mentioned are toxic AF, i would know because i've been part of them. You love analogies so here's a good one: "My shit stinks, but compared to all the other shits i've smelled, it's pretty nice"
Have you tried not "smelling shit" would be my follow up question, there are some awesome communities out there, including PVP ones like Dark and Darker, Hunt Showdown, Hell Let Loose and many others.
I'm a long-time sub, so i'm not just another hater or whatever, i'm sure you got a cool way to check how long i've been around for
In a scenario where the killer intentionally avoids unsportsmanlike play, and survivors still act as sore winners, is this always routed in douchebaggery or are they trapped in a bad habit which they developed from playing against unsporting killers?
I only T-Bag if the Killer was camping and tunneling and still only killed like 1 guy, if even that.
I play killer because I have too (challenges, daily rituals, incentive) so I tend to just 2 hook and let them go, as the "farming killers" are boring to face, and I want the game to be exciting. I will only kill if I need to (Ritual/Challenge) or the player(s) I kill are toxic. And so after the fact, I might tell them "If you'd just played normally, you coulda lived".
Edit: Added a killer scenario.
balls
I really gotta disagree with you Scott, which is very rare for me. I wholeheartedly reject this idea that sore winners and people who show bad manners in games are just bad people. Many of us grew up with a healthy amount of trash talking and taunting. From playing board games with my family (my dad gloating when he won) to old school Goldeneye sleepovers with teabagging, it was usually in good fun and trash talking was a very normal and healthy part of the experience. We've gotten soft, and I even play games where tbagging is screenshotted and reported as, wait for it, SEXUAL HARASSMENT.
Getting a pallet stun on a killer and doing a double crouch is saying "haha never gonna catch me!". It's neither wrong nor right. It's just taunting your opponent. Sure, slugging on the ground for 4 minutes is a scummy maneuver, but the winners get to gloat a little. They get to wait at the exit gates and bag if they want (That's a flaw of the game, really. Beating a killer is not that satisfying, when no one's there to see you escape, it feels hollow). I think plenty of taunters and teabaggers are just enjoying some healthy smack talk in a game that wont let you chat with others. I do not think everyone who partakes in this kind of behavior is just a real life dick.
Personally, dead by daylight is one of the most toxic games (excluding gta v) I’ve played, most other multiplayer games that I’ve played doesn’t have nearly as many toxic people, call of duty, Overwatch, tf2, Apex legends, for most of them, there is well over 5 players in a single match and I rarely hear much toxicity come from them, but even then, with Apex, matches for you can go for like 3 minutes, then u get killed, so you requeue, but the amount of toxic teabagging survivors I’ve run into in a 5 man queued game is pretty ridiculous
Sure there isn’t much racial slurs or shit talking but that’s mostly because the only chat function is endgame chat and most people leave rather than sticking around till the end
And even then, I definitely receive the most messages on my profile (for both steam and PlayStation) from survivors shittalking me than I have in any other of my multiplayer games
I have several thousand hours in DOTA and I find DBD significantly more toxic. DOTA someone might get steamed because the match didn't go well, or they're unhappy with your performance as their teammate... but it rarely escalates beyond that. Of course there are exceptions, there are bad apples in every community, but for the most part DOTA salt stays in-game. It may just feel more prevalent because both sides can talk to eachother throughout the entire match with in-game chat.
DBD players can and have posted personal insults and threats on my profile for months after losing a single match. They abandon matches far more often when things don't go 100% their way, and they expect their opponents to play a certain way while they get to play however they want. A huge reason for this, in my opinion, is the lack of a separate queue for solo and casual players, as well as a severely flawed MMR system which everyone individually thinks they're at the tippy-top percentile of and there's nothing they can improve at.
Doing stuff like "humping" downed survivors, tbagging, flash light spamming, etc. I think still falls into toxicity. Sure you see a lot less verbal harassment in DBD than in other games but that's mainly because there is no voice chat and text chat is only after the match. How often do you see people trash talking in dota 2 in the lobby after the match has ended? Not that often, however you do see a lot of trash talking during matches. My point - stuff that you refer to as "sore winning" I'd say still counts as toxicity, it's just that it's expressed differently than it is typically in other games, that's why I, and many others I assume, call DBD a very toxic game.
Again, lol no Scott the DBD community is quite toxic, and sore winners are sore because the win was boring, perhaps because of a cheese or gimmick or perhaps simply skill difference, and they want more out of it. Bully squads aim for emotional reactions from the killer, because the survivors have locked down the game with flashies/perks/etc and it would otherwise be boring. Same for old slug and bleed out strats, hook camping and slapping the survivor, Pinhead camping the box (removed from game), Pig camping boxes and forcing a head trap explosion, etc. You got the sore losers completely backward last time by endorsing their imaginative cope against the game (not a skill issue on my behalf, they got lucky and that's how the game is), this time you're getting sore winners backwards by rejecting your own imaginative cope against the game (the players think the game is unbalanced and that's how it is, but they got lucky or have great skill).
Professional standards are primarily concerned with excessive celebration at the expense of keeping the show running, secondarily concerned with inappropriate or "dishonorable" celebration at the expense of the losing side's personal experience. There's taking pride and glory in victory, and there's casting shame and ridicule on defeat.
I honestly don't care about sore winners because as long as you have the skill to back it up, sure, go ahead, BM me, but if someone BMs me without genuinely having skill to back it up (Example: I ended the chase in 5 seconds, they only pre-dropped and held W without actually looping me, they didn't do anything the entire match etc.) then it really pisses me off, because you didn't do ANYTHING the entire game, yet you have the audacity to BM me and rub it in my face that I lost, when you don't have the skill to back it up.
I doubt many people started the game as sore winners. You get trained into it in some way. Most sore winning is probably what Scott said, in response, but if you're playing chill you're rarely going to get any bm.
Then you have the outliers, which between all of the different reasons for there being an outlier the toxicity seems more prevalent. Had a bad match the match before or a bad night, are legitimately assholes, play when they shouldn't be playing because of their mental/emotional capacity but friends or something else keeps them sucked in.
I'm more on the psychotic side, so I kind of get it from a perspective people won't understand or will just scoff at. I don't play killer anymore because I will just be full rage, full evil at all times, winning, losing, everything. I've been banned for toxic behavior, but that's me being unable to handle competition. But it's hard to tell someone like me to stop playing. Games are too much a part of my life, from before I have memories, and I have lots of friends who play. I'm just glad I've been able to pull myself away from killer. Not everyone is going to be able to pull themselves away, though. You're allowing me to kill in a video game to vent? Yeah, that's toxicity waiting to happen.
To end my story no-one cares about, I've seen some people become more chill with the game because of comp. That may sound crazy but, at least from the survivor side, I've seen it allow survivors to treat it like a team game. The comp setting helps people change their mentality from "my fun was ruined" to "I hope I did enough to help my team". If people on the survivor side could switch their mindset to that then it would help a lot.
While I agree that someone being a sore winner is usually comes from a place of retribution, ego inflation, and/or superiority (and attempting to disprove personal insecurities about those things), I think there's more to say about why DBD specifically is like this (see: the weirdos going gg ez in my Overwatch 2 quickplay matches >.>), specifically I think a big factor making it worse for DBD is bc it's asymmetrical.
Although like you said there's so many variables it's hard to definitively pin down any one thing as the biggest offender, and the true answer is likely a combination of many variables, I think this is still worth talking about more. I think the primary reason DBD has a bigger sore winner problem than other titles is the game's asymmetrical nature. With symmetrical games, it's always at least _theoretically_ fair; barring RNG elements and skill differentials (hence where most toxicity comes from in those games), you have access to mostly the same resources as everyone else and everyone generally has an at least somewhat similar gameplay experience.
Valorant is a good example of this; each Agent and gun lends themselves to differing playstyles but both teams are all still shooting a gun and tactically pushing and holding angles to complete an objective. Overwatch is a bit more of a middleground; each Hero and role has quite different playstyles from each other but both teams still have access to the same resources and you're all still filling the same roles and working towards common objectives. Even games with a draft pick system, most of the time you at least theoretically could've still had the resources the other team has but chose not to, and you had access to the same denial of resources as the other team. (Although these games' objectives may be slightly asymmetrical, it's also random so this isn't really a huge factor; no one's rolling their eyes at entitled Defender players in Overwatch or Valorant).
Dead by Daylight's asymmetrical nature means that both teams are not only working with entirely different options and resources (made worse by the vast power differencial of optional unlockable resources) or working towards different objectives, they might as well be playing two entirely different games. This disconnect creates a huge gap in understanding between those who only engage with one of the two sides of the game (and being two different games, you can hardly blame people for not having time to/not wanting to play both sides). With this lack of understanding of other people, there's a lack of empathy and it's hard to relate to each other, which makes it easier to feel wronged by or unfairly treated by that other side and thus easier to justify retribution or other toxicity.
I also don't think saying this is a skill issue resolves anything (not that you claimed it did, but I wanted to clarify). Like, it's true, but it was already a skill issue with human social self-moderation so it doesn't matter much that it's also a videogame skill issue too. And I don't think dunking on them solves anything either, even if it's kinda funny, telling a sore winner that them doing that is a skill issue for xyz reason would only make things worse. It's a hard thing to improve though.
(Stuff like this makes me wish there were more asymmetrical games like DBD that were around and popular for long enough to have a developed and decently sized community so we can easier compare and contrast what variables are impacting this, like other genres like FPS games have plenty of outside examples and precidents to use to diagnose roots of frustrations and such.)
The DbD community being "less toxic" than other communities *does not* invalidate that the community is still toxic. You bring this up every now and then and it doesn't matter one bit. The DbD community can be less toxic than it is. Other game communities can be less toxic than they are. Humanity can be less toxic than it is. This sort of toxicity should be fought against no matter the level it is at and be told that it isn't right. Saying "that's just human nature" is also not the right thing to do, as it is also "human nature" to change. The "people who are just dicks" need to constantly be told that it is not alright to be dicks and that are not welcome until they stop being dicks.
As for your main point of the video I guess that sort of thing is true for some people but I don't think it's the majority of them.
When I played as Killer I always(1) went for twelve hook games and tried very hard to never hook someone twice in a row AND to never third hook anyone until everyone had been hooked twice. I was a very "fair play Killer". This often lead to me losing games but I didn't care about just getting a four kill "win". I bring this up because often times I'd be getting t-bagged at the exit gate when I had only gotten four or five hooks and it wasn't a close game at all. Often when I had passed up multiple opportunities to tunnel.
Just dicks being dicks. No real way of perceiving the game as being unfair.
I don't think the majority of sore winners are the type that have "perceived something unfair" nor do I think they are all "just dicks". I think a lot of the sore winners are just people giving back what they've been given. You go from a game where you got face camped and hit on hook so next game when you get out you give that sort of thing back to the Killer, even though it is highly likely it is not the same person who wronged you
I saw a little bit of a stream from a Killer Main who was "paying it forward", in that if he had toxic Survivors in his previous match he'd be toxic to his current group. That sort of mind set is a major part of the problem, toxicity begetting toxicity, the cycle needs to stop.
(1)For a good long while I was part of the problem and being toxic to people who were toxic to me. If someone rapid clicked or t-bagged at pallets or made "louse noise notifications" outside of chase I'd slug them till they bleed out or face camp them. I realized I didn't want to be that sort of person so I stopped doing that and switched to the "fair play" mode of playing because that's how I wanted others to play. I try and not be a hypocrite, but I don't always succeed in that goal.
Thanks for the video Scott.
Ehhh, I used to be a member of the For Honor community for awhile and I'd say dbd's community is worse. I think dbd's community isn't as downright toxic and offensive as the for honor community, but I feel like the dbd community is just more tense and complaints are wayyyyy more common. Also, dbd complaints are posted directly to the main sub on subreddit, which just makes everyone who sees it feel worse. At least the For Honor community made a rant subreddit for the people who are bad at the game. Dbd rants are usually more focused on the player themselves such as, "this player sucks because he camped/tunneled/slugged me" while for Honor rants focus more on hero movesets and gameplay mechanics (although there are still a bunch of people who complain about orochi light spammers, most people complain more about the light spam itself and less about the person taking advantage of it.
The Community is incredibly toxic but thats in EU not NA if youre american you dont really see it
Nah this game has way more toxicity than other games I've played. There's some bias going on here.
Back when ranged blink addons were a thing, if we got more than 1 person out, you are watching me leave. Killers do the same thing if you brought BT, DH, DS, and unbreakablback in the day, and do it still with unbreakable today, and honestly almost any survivor perk that gives you an advantage in chase or being able to take a hit like using buckle up. I've been slugged for 4 minutes for getting someone up with buckle up and even getting someone up using made for this, pre nerf. The game is a mess, and the massive imbalances in the game have created a toxic community within the game.
I think a lot of it isn't even a perception of something being unfair. A lot of it is just perceiving anything that annoys them as being rude, and wanting to be rude back. Like, most half-decent players recognize that bully squads whose entire gameplan centers around forcing the killer to slug and then punishing them for slugging don't tend to be very effective because they aren't doing gens and the killer will always be able to slug harder than the survs can pick each other up with enough persistence, but that kind of playstyle is _extremely annoying_ to go against if you just want to play the game normally, and there's no way that the survivors don't know that it's annoying to play against. It is entirely understandable, at that point, for the killer to have the thought of "these people are intentionally trying to irritate me, and that's rude." And once you've had that thought, it becomes very easy to justify being rude back.
And like, obviously, none of this is to say that it's _correct_ for a player to be rude back, by any means (or even that annoying playstyles are necessarily BM), just that in my experience, it's often less of an "I have overcome something unfair" response and more of an "I believe my opponent's playstyle is inherently BM, so I am going to BM them back" response. One could say that the latter is effectively the same as the former, but I would disagree. There's a lot of stuff that's annoying enough to _feel_ like BM when you experience it that is very easy to defeat.
Disagreed on the part where you basically say "the better you are the more you perceive as fair" I believe its more like if you are horrible at the game, you dont really perceive things as unfair except someone tells you its unfair, because you simply dont know what is and is not considered unfair in the community and you dont have enough experience to make a judgement. If you are good at the game you start to perceive things as more and more unfair because you get a better understanding of the game. Especially the ones who are really good at the game (you Scott) often times feel like the match fas unfair, because they just wanna have fun. You dont have fun against a good Nurse with 4 slow downs, so you have only 2 options: Kill yourself on hook or try your best to win maybe overcome the odds and tell the guy behind the screen he is a dick head wether you win or not. I dont feel like being good at the game makes the game less unfair. You can be fucking Otzdarva but if your trying to have some fun on Bubba and the enemy team consists of 4 guys that are gonna have a simple 30 minute chase against you, theres nothing you can do and that feels unfair. Point being: T-bagging at the exit gate/ Nodding on hook isnt a testament of your own skill, rather a reflection of your own believe on how the game is fun to play.
TLDR: Scott wrong about Skill=Less T-Bag, cause game no fair.
I'll cop to it. I teabag at exit gates sometimes even if the killers don't "deserve" it. Why? I'm pretty terrible even after 4k hours so it's just pure elation I actually managed to escape in a solo queue match, and it comes out as over-celebrating. I'm not strictly trying to make the killer feel bad. In point of fact, I've forgotten about the human player behind the killer entirely. All I know is monkey brain "They try kill me but me win, hoo hoo".