Scott, I think a big problem is that the community that watches your vids aren't the same casuals who think survivor induced tunneling is different from killer induced tunneling. I agree that it is completely overblown, but that it's the communities fault because they're uneducated on it, generally speaking. I also think educating the community is a monumental task, and casuals won't ever understand the difference.
Yup, I completely agree. A large portion of the complaints are actually just straight up misguided people not knowing the tunneling they're receiving is almost entirely their fault. I keep talking about it in hopes people will learn the difference so the overall complaint levels will go down, but whether or not its a fruitless endeavor doesn't really matter much because I still like discussing it.
@@ScottJund It's still unhealthy for the game IMO. Whether it happens every game or 1 in 20 or whatever is irrelevant. There's a better way for the game to be played so that more people are engaged for longer. Whether it's reducing the 'free' info killers getting on tunnel victims or making it impossible to kill anyone before 5-6 hooks or something else, there's loads of ideas to combat it and even the 'fear' of it happening.
@Peachrocks5 well in this game u either completely destroy them or they completely destroy u I was playing matches where I would tunnel and be downing them pretty quicke but gens kept flying like crazy and eventually lose
one way not to get tunneled is not to go back to the gen or place the killer found you out. If your being a dick as a survivor always flashlighting always being a dick to the killer abusing perks @@ScottJund
@@ScottJund it's kinda pointless, people refuse to play in a certain way or learn how to avoid getting into a bad situation until they complain enough to get that thing removed. IMO, tunnelling as of now is generally a non issue. In equal skill / gear matches, actual tunnelling is not an issue as survivors that arent completely outclassed and are putting effort to win can delay the kill long enough to get through the last gens and get really high chances of escaping pretty consistently. Not even counting the possible teamwork to prevent pick ups / hooks. 1-2 antitunnelling perks, good performance and awareness that killer won't leave you no matter what can make tunnelling for the kill in first 3 hooks a surefire way to throw the game for the killer. Most basic example - predropping god pallet and making 30 seconds worth of W key distance and having killer follow you, because they have put themselves in a situation where they can't drop the chase. People often fail to recognise when hardtunnel is going to happen and dont play accordingly and that is really their fault. In other conditions, it's not worth talking about as "balance" issue because if survivors are outclassed by the killer, it doesnt matter how they play, they would still win. What is the ACTUAL issue is that tunnelling is not fun or rewarding, especially for the survivor that is being targeted or other people that watch their teammate get downed and hooked repeatedly. I really hope devs will for once put effort into making such scenarios still be somewhat enjoyable / rewarding variation of a match, instead of again inventing a system that nerfs killers by stripping them of a strategic choice in a match and forcing them to play in a particular way people are used to. And ofc, it really doesn't happen that often, agreed. In my matches as the survivor I rarely experience actual tunnelling.
Yeah, the issue that I run into as killer is that any time a survivor decides to play ballsy and loses immediately, they're going to complain about tunneling. Dwight: "I'm going to sprint immediately to the hook despite the killer still being there." That Same Dwight: "I'm going to chase the killer to flashlight stun him every time he goes for a hook." Still Dwight: "I'm going to bodyblock the killer while on death hook." Dwight in post-game chat: "Why do killers always tunnel???" I'm not following YOU, you're following ME. Also, sometimes, when you're wearing glowing neon pink clothing and I can't find anybody else, you're gonna die first.
Usually most complaints about tunneling or rushing and so on come down to player agency. Players want to play, and being either hurried out of the match or never getting a choice in what you do harms the experience. The technicalities behind tunneling and its definitions and scenarios are less important than acknowledging that an individual player can indeed be shut out of experiencing the match as intended.
What a based yet insane comment. There are technicalities in the game that cause the behavior we identify as tunneling, and the way we feel about tunneling is that it's bad. So wouldn't the technicalities be more important than focusing on the feeling that result from the technicalities?
Yea, this is pretty much the one thing I never see anyone talk about and I'm kinda annoyed that nobody does. I don't think there's any other game I've ever played where I've been denied my ability to participate in the game. I don't care if I win or lose, that doesn't matter to me. What does matter to me is whether or not I can play the game and queuing just to be forced to watch a dynamic wallpaper every like 1 in 7 to 10 games is not fun. Winning is fun most of the time. Losing can be fun sometimes. What isn't fun and never will be is not being able to play the game. At least as killer, you're still able to go around and do things. It's not like every time you get stunned it lasts for 30 seconds or something. People also tend to forget that "skill issues" is kinda hard to debate around because dbd is an asymmetrical game and the fact that map rng is such a huge element to the gameplay. The players you lose to in symmetrical games, you can do the same back to them because you both have access to the same resources and abilities. In that case, yea it really is a skill issue or some other small factors
@@cookiesalad13 i fundamentally disagree that getting tunneled is you "not participating in the game". in fact, you are the entire game. the entire game centers around you, which is why i like actually getting tunneled
For me, tunnelling only maddens me when the killer does it at 5/4 gens, as it's a boring play style and can effectively end someone's game very quickly. I expect it to happen at 1/2 gens, and if I'm the unlucky one getting tunnelled then... well, at least I'll leave the game with some decent points for doing gens/healing etc throughout the early game. So it's more about WHEN tunnelling happens, as the killer player's mindset to just choose someone and aggressively go after them all the time from the start isn't easily counterable - especially in solo queue or if you have the wrong perks for it. So when killers moan about seeing OTR, Dead Hard, etc, all the time... it's simply because survivor players who play a lot want to safe guard their chances of being able to play a trial for longer than 4 mins.
I'll tunnel at 4 gens if I keep getting same dude coming up and body blocking me from chasing someone else, if they do that I'm putting them back down regardless of how many gens are left.
@@oneautumnleaf2622 Yeah that’s fair. I’m speaking more about survivors who have done nothing to “deserve” it, but are chased and targeted until death almost immediately and maybe did nothing in the game except lose two chases and maybe do a gen if they were lucky.
@@danowen79 Yeah but like scott showcased, that REALLY isnt as common as people like to make it out to be.... and dont make it all about you sometiimes you were just the weakest link on the team and the killer wants to pressure that link to break the chain, sometimes getting a easy down is a great way to throw the teams balancing off. I think you would be suprised at how much tunneling is actually tunneling, bc most of the games I get its people put ting themselves in these situations or doing something greedy or stupid and getting punished as a result. if I find you and ive been looking for others I could care less if I just hooked you, II found you Im downing you, thats just me playing the game. Im not going to pretend I didnt see you.
@@oneautumnleaf2622 Yeah. To me tunnelling is typically when you’re unhooked and the killer comes back and aggressively goes after you again until you’re hooked again, rather than focus on the rescuer, at 4/5 gens. That’s when it gets to me. You can get lucky by having perks on to make it frustrating, or the rng of a map will help, or you outplay the killer in loops - but the game is designed around killers being able to down a survivor under 60 seconds. So a tunneller can remove someone in under 5 mins and it’s not fun. The other 3 survivors likely lose the trial too as 3v1 favours the killer
No amount of perks can stop the tunneling, you need survivors on gens, you need a good map, good pallets and it all means nothing if it’s a nurse. However, the only times I have been “hardcore tunneled” was against a huntress and I could tell it was personal, he really didn’t like me, but the entire time I was like: “who are you?” I don’t remember players names so his entire malicious actions were just on his head, I went into the next match like nothing happened
Scott the issue isn't that its everywhere, otherwise we'd all just run anti tunneling perks and win, the issue is you have no way to prepare for it and when it happens it's just "oh okay so I guess I'm not having fun"
You can call me crazy but i like beeing tunnelt by the killer just because i dont see it as not allowed to having fun i see it as a personal 1v1 where the better player wins yeah many times i die quickly but many times i dont but i get it that many players hate it
@@ScottJund And yet every time you make a video about something dumb on Twitter, you get people calling you an idiot. Very unlucky, maybe one of these times it'll stick.
@@ScottJund This is how i usually see tunnling go . Im hardly the victim . But i wont see it for games and games . Then 3 or 4 games in a row the killer will just go for the rando hooked first . Also most of the time if the killer is going straight back to the hook , he is going for the unhooked guy . That is a pre determined action . However me personally i hardly feel i get tunneled much . Never run second chance perks .
I don't think the problem is how much Tunneling is seen, I think the balance around how easy it is to do that is the problem. You talk about the killer going for the EASY target (which is fair) but when you add how easy it is to tunnel (the skill part) that isn't fair in a game where virtually every other aspect (Maps, pallets) are being reduced in size and strength. As for how much it is seen, I think that depends on your own experience. For me, it depends on the killers I see... I see more Blights doing it vs Trappers (as an example) Blights who are stronger than Trapper, can get to a hook faster, so in that sense I think that is a big balance problem. Not just for the game as a whole but tunneling itself.
The tunneling issue is such a difficult thing to fix because sometimes tunneling can feel like such a necessity when someone is running problematic perks like buckle up+ftp or background player as keeping them in the game only causes issues later on which can cost the win
Other theory. The people who play late are more irritable, and therefore remember or feel they remember the negative experiences of getting tunneled more...
Honestly I think a large reason why it feels shitty to not win in this game is cause of how little you get when you lose, despite your time investment. When you get tunneled it feels even worse. I honestly am struggling to want to play this game after Blood Moon cause of how little BPs I get. Losing would not feel so bad if Blood Moon BPs was permanent. The grind is way too vast even for someone who has a lot of time if they have a lot of characters. I can’t imagine how bad it is for a more casual player.
If you follow the bloodpoint bonus and not just play survivor the whole timee you will see that the bloodpoints actually come pretty easily. This is what I usually do and I can't spend them fast enough.
And with the addition of each new character dlc the grind just gets a little bit worse. I loved the immense blood points you got during the event and almost immediately lost motivation to play once it ejded
The big big big whammy of discouragement is when the game is running multiple stacked blood point bonuses togethers, so you get +500% survivor blood points off your tunneled score of 600 - which is a whopping 3600, rather than the 36000 you would have gotten any day of playing killer WHILE LOSING.
I bet they do get tunneled all the time, but they bring it on themselves. They do braindead plays that makes them be the logical target choice for the killer, then blame their mistakes on the killer.
@@hardboiled2987 Yeah, for that reason I dodge any lobby in soloQ, where I see three flashlights. Because I know, that with 87% certainty it will be a fast one. No need to get caught up in the massacre, that is about to take place.
This is not my experience. Since the DS nerf, "killer induced tunneling" was happening at least 50% of the time. The past month or so its calmed down a bit, but it was really bad for a long time. I don't consider "survivor induced tunneling" to be tunneling, personally. If an unhooked survivor attempts to body block and reengage the killer, theyre fair game. If tunneling wasnt happening a lot, then you wouldnt have so many killers hating DS in its current state and the soon to be slightly buffed state.
Since I discovered this strategy I have never played differently, I will explain why. During last 7 years I played against almost all EU pro players. The biggest reason is - I love to win, and over the years against various metas it is still the most reliable strategy. Secondly, you never know who you are playing against, I am at a high MMR, so I immediately start playing seriously, so as not to regret it later. If this bothers you, no one is stopping you from taking OTR, DS, DH. together with something else strong. I ll play the way i like, not someone else. I payed money for the game.
you are at 4 or 5 gens and you are about to put a death hook survivor on the hook. do you need to kill them to feel like you've won? are you scared that you could ever lose that match?
@@ZakkeV Well yes, killing survivors make me feel like i won because i clearly did. The faster - the better. I rarly lose becouse i play only Nurse/Spirit, but when it happends i am sitting and amalizing mistakes i made. I just rly enjoy winning in this game. That's it.
@@0xEF666 if you're gonna tunnel and stomp most of your matches I hope that's enough fun for you that you don't care how shitty the match is for everyone else. winning as killer is not hard
@larsliamvilhelm just run distortion so the killer can't find anyone else. In all seriousness though sounds a little like the anticamp meter. Killers can't be right in the survivors face anymore but even though they are proxying they are somewhat still ironically playing dbd again.
That still doesn’t warrant for the killer to go and kill the person off the hook. Why aren’t they killing the unhooking abuser? It’s common sense to stop going for people that just got unhooked. If a killer goes back to a hook and chases a survivor right off then you’re tunneling no excuse for what another survivor did because it’s not up to their choice that the killer is going to tunnel.
@@humbletotodileit’s actually not more efficient, you can just hit the unhooker twice if they unhook in your face which is far faster than waiting out basekit bt
My friend she’s tunneled every match if she plays good they will ignore anyone else until she’s dead even if they’re doing gens right by chase so it’s common but not for everyone I guess
It used to be you could "win" without actually killing anyone if you were playing well enough. I've played for 12 hooks for the vast majority of my "career" in DBD, and ever since they moved away from using Emblems to rate performance the game has suffered for it. Making the only thing that matters be "did you kill more than 2 survivors?" has made tunneling look more and more attractive to Killers whose sole focus is winning. Similarly, making the sole method of winning for Survivors be "did you escape?" has caused a similar problem, where anything other than an escape feels like the game is looking down on your efforts. I used to play giga healing builds as a Survivor and play fully altruistically because even though I suck at chases I could still "win" if I did a couple Gens and unhooked+healed people before I died. These things combined have massively widened the division between Killers and Survivors. The niggling reminder in the back of your head that you're "losing" even though you're playing well has frustrated players, and many of them lash out at their opponents because they "make them lose" instead of it being possible for both sides to win with good play. You could 8 hook survivors and pip, while they also all pip, and everyone walks away thinking "that was fun" because no one "lost". I know the Emblem system has its own issues, but I really wish BHVR would take it back into consideration. I'm sure it's much, MUCH easier to manage matchmaking when you base things on something as binary as kills/surviving, but it is super damaging to everyone's enjoyment of the game to make things so cut and dry. The Emblem system obfuscates how "bad" you played, making it easier to look at blood points earned or getting an Iri Emblem in certain categories so the PLAYER can decide if they feel like they won, instead of the stark feeling of "nope, you died so you suck LOL". Sorry for the wall of text, hope you're doing well Scoot.
Completely agree, I also miss being able to adept a killer while still giving hatch to last man standing, (especially when I downed them but having the safety net for the RNG part of it was also nice)
I had a game 1 night where i got giga tunneled by a wraith, proxy camped the hook and came for only me. So next game i put on DS, OTR, dead hard for the rest of the night. Was not tunneled again a single time and remembered why i dont run anti tunnel. Its just not that common, so i happily went back to my background player flashbang the next gaming sesh 😈
Totally agree. There was 3 games I played in which I would say I got tunneled for all 3 in a row. The first one, the clown had one hook at 1 gen left. Good 3 gen, and he tunneled me out. Me not being a good survivor, I understand that. Totally valid and definitely necessary to attempt to bring the game back. The next two however: A p100 nurse followed by a p100 blight, both with 4 slowdowns AND map offerings (midwich and autohavens respectively) tunneled me out at 5 gens. I doublechecked later a found I had the least hours of my team both times (not sure if that played a role, just interesting to note). Whilst it’s not fair to take the game outside of the game to get angry at those players, that did indeed stop me from playing any more.
One thing I've noticed tho are scenarios where survivor induced tunneling turns into straight up tunneling. Like either a killer just thinks "they're death hook, might as well kill them". Or I take a hit, barely use the speedboost, and they go back on the survivor, with sometimes more distance to them than I do.
Despite you saying that a large number of people polled shared a similar definition of tunnelling I don’t think that’s overall the case in the community. There are definitely a lot of subjective (and incorrect) opinions about what tunnelling actually is. Also context is important- if I get tunnelled or tunnel in end game I’m seeing that as totally normal behaviour. If a killer decides at 1 gen left they think the best action to win is tunnelling the recently unhooked survivor who is on death hook then so be it- it’s still “tunnelling” but if you’re expecting the killer not to make that decision then you’re asking the killer to lower their chances of winning for your fun. Don’t expect that of anyone and appreciate it if it happens to you, but don’t think it should be the norm.
There's a lot of healing under hook, as well occasions in which both leave for a safer spot, but one or the other player does not have a plan to heal afterwards. I would guess there's a lot of players that have seen PopularStreamer heal under hook, and don't notice the contextual information they use to decide that's safe-ish.
@@Timothee_Chalamet_CMBYN Really can’t say I agree. Half the unhook protection comes in the form of haste; and a killer that’s trying to pressure other stuff before tunneling only knows about the hook position, not the victim’s position 15 seconds later. If they were plainly camping, then unhook as late as possible and run. If they gave some space or got in a nearby chase but you think they may return, at least give a bit of distance and some visual cover, so the killer has a chance of losing track of them. Especially important with killers who have ranged attacks or quick traversal powers. Healing under hook is generally okay if you know the killer is actively chasing somewhere across the map, or you feel sure you can both reach a safe loop if they arrive. Otherwise, I’d be careful.
I kept track of my survivor games for about 3 months back when DS was nerfed into the ground, including how many times someone was attempted to be tunneled (defined as in chase within a short period of being unhooked, and then downed to differentiate between 'just' camping and going for the unhooker), and it was over 80% for at least once a match, and around 20% to happen to the same person twice. It's gotten significantly worse since then because they keep buffing proxy camping. I'm trusting my lying eyes over a spreadsheet likely filled with killer-only responses.
I believe people get tunneled often. But I think it's across the player-base as a whole. I like to believe I get tunneled often, but I don't. It does happen more frequently than I wish it did, though. My problem with tunneling is how often people are experiencing it and how powerful it is. There should be no reason the Killer can go after someone right after they are taken off the Hook. I do also believe that in some situations, players feel that tunneling is necessary or fundamental to the gameplay. Personally, I think that it's lame and unfun for both sides. No Killer wants to resort to that when they're playing well, and no Survivor wants it to come to that. Killers playing badly should be punished, same with Survivor. Survivors playing badly should be punished. But there shouldn't be "feel-better" mechanics that allow one side to comeback from those situations. Tunneling shouldn't be rewarded as heavily as it is, and the most it should do is have the Killer throw the entire match. Survivors body-blocking shouldn't be rewarded in my opinion either, as it only causes more problems for both sides, like the example you stated in your video with Survivor induced tunneling.
There was a study done that found that it takes around 5 positive memories to cancel out 1 negative memory The reason I find this so interesting is, off this data, DbD players are having 9 positive matches for every 1 negative match (45/50 = 9/10) and STILL not letting it cancel out the negative match DbD players are quite literally psychological anomalies
The only anomaly is your math. The ratio of 9 positive matches to 1 negative match is not supported by the data you provided. The data you cited suggests it takes 5 positive memories to cancel out 1 negative memory, not a 9:1 ratio. Even if the ratio was 9:1, that does not necessarily mean the negative memories are not being "cancelled out." The 5:1 ratio from the original study is about the relative impact of positive vs. negative experiences, not a strict cancellation. Negative experiences can still have an effect even if outweighed by positive ones. Human psychology and response to experiences is complex and cannot be boiled down to a simple mathematical formula. The 5:1 ratio is a generalization, and individual responses can vary greatly based on many factors. Assuming DbD players are "psychological anomalies" based on this flawed math oversimplifies a complex issue. Player experiences and responses to a game can be influenced by many factors beyond just the ratio of positive to negative matches.
Or its indicative of a player base that really doesn't have positive thoughts about this game and they are just addicted to the game so all that stands out is the negative moments.
@@MightyBojangles It's not that deep man, I was just making a joke The joke is that it usually takes 5 positive memories to remember positive things but only 1 negative to remember the negative. In 50 games, 45 didn't have any tunneling, which simplifies to 10 games with 9 not having tunneling. The part of the DbD community looked at in this video tends to say they get tunneled more than not, which means they need not only more than 5 games to remember, but more than 9 games for every 1 game they get tunneled. The joke is that there's an irony to how a one-off scientific study differs from the players that complain about tunneling in this game. Hopefully I could help you understand the joke.
I had 20 games today and in 6 of them there was a hard core tunneler who no matter what just went for the same guy over and over, (Chucky, x2Deathslinger, Wesker, Wraith, Billy) It doesn't happen more than half the time and it may feel rare sometimes, but it's defiantly an issue within the game and kinda unhealthy. Not every survivor, every game gives up and kills themselves on hook, but I think we can all agree it dose happen, it happens more than it should, and it is a problem. same goes for tunneling.
I agree and I think that is something Scott is overlooking. He makes the point that survivors are tunnelled less frequently than they claim (which may be true for most), however he glosses over a ~20% tunnelling average as okay.... If tunnelling occurs in 1/5 matches then thats one in 5 matches that are ruined due to a systemic problem in the game. Something needs to be done to address "killer based tunnelling" just like the default anti camping and 3 genning changes that have made a big difference (for most killers).
@@Finniann Honestly I haven't had gen rushing as a problem in months. But maybe that's down to the killers that I play. If you are talking about more important inherent problems honestly I would've expected map imbalance and killer specific problems to turn up first.
@@Finniann Thats fair, I saw that the BNP changes made little difference to gen-rushing. What perks do you normally run? I almost always run Discordance because its great for finding and disrupting multiple survivors (especially those looking to gen rush).
On top of it being overblown who cares if you get tunneled. What else is there to do, sit on gens? If I get tunneled on survivor and get a good chase in I'm happy. I had a bubba face camping and trying to tunnel me out the whole match yesterday and it was super fun. Everyone else was able to escape and I got my loops in. If anything I'm more annoyed when teammates get tunneled cause then all I can really do is gens
I mean with that logic you are always less likely to get tunneled due to three other players so more often than not you will have matches where you just have to sit on gens due to tunneling. Or you know, a killer spreads out their chase effectively slowing more than one player down in a match so they can get more than maybe 2 kills a match.
@@ReactiveDeactive Yeah I agree! But 99% of the time people are complaining about themselves getting tunneled, not their teammates. If people complained about teammates getting tunneled and having to sit on gens all game I'd honestly agree
I have noticed less tunneling since the base BT, and even more now with grim embrace. Healthy changes like this promote less tunneling, not to say tunneling isn't a strategy still used it sure is. It probably depends on if killers are seeing more anti-tunneling perks in their games in respects to it. Even then I like being tunneled as a survivor so it's whatever. Proxy camping on the other hand happens about the same, as unhooking yourself hardly happens.
Facts even tho I did have a blight try to "tunnel" me earlier it was the only game today that happened. He had barbeque and lethal and definitely saw me as a weak link since it was my first game on but I still got out using lockers/iron will
The problem with the questionnaire was it only asked how often you personally get tunneled. My matches that are ruined is from other people getting tunneled, not myself. I can't sit on a chair with 3 bricks for legs and a toothpick as the 4th.
There's that, and also stuff like the dude who played eight hours was playing in mainly a SWF, running a flashlight, and the group was actively trying to protect everyone that was being tunneled. The Trickster game, for example, the Trickster dropped chase with someone after hitting them to rush back to the unhook, ride their ass waiting out unhook BT, and instantly downed the person. But that didn't count as tunneling to Scott because there were two people hovering nearby to protect them. And in a lot of those games, the killer only got 3-4 hooks anyway. So it's not that there was no tunneling attempted, it's that the survivors were playing in a coordinated and aggressive way to pull aggro and prevent teammates from being tunneled. Which is 1.) Not how regular solo queue goes, and 2.) seen as the height of being a toxic bully squad from the killer community and excuse for maximal griefing when it doesn't work, which it won't because SOLO QUEUE.
Yeah, someone pointed this out in the survey too. I'm not often the weak link on the team, and when I am, I kinda just accept that as consequence. But when I can see that a teammate isn't getting to do anything, it's still a mood ruiner and can even ruin our chances at escape because the victim isn't really giving 2-gen chases.
His whole definition misses the forest for the trees. If, for example, a killer hard camps the first hook, downs the attempted unhook, forcing the second stage, hooks that person, and then immediately comes back to the hook to force the first person out, that's not tunneling at all according to him. They hooked someone else, after all, and survivors by not swarming the hook 'put the killer in that situation', so it's 'survivor induced,' which is total BS. Their intention from the start was to focus the person out ASAP. Does it really make a difference how? Likewise, just because a killer can't find someone they're trying to tunnel, doesn't mean they're not trying to tunnel. I expect a killer more often than not to drop chase the second there's an unhook, especially if it's one with mobility like Dredge/Sadako/Blight/Nurse to go straight back to the hook. He only counts tunneling if it's successful, when the expectation of it is already completely warping player behavior.
People will never stick to strict definitions because then they can't fall back on tunneling as an excuse for why they lost. Same with camping, I've been told by multiple people that I was facecamping from outside facecamp timer range, nearly halfway across the map. I don't see tunneling as any different than just being efficient on gens. Sometimes the best option is to just tunnel someone, simple as that. It's not some personal attack, it's just playing the game. Almost always it's because they rushed for the unhook too soon, or healed under hook. They try to save time, I do the same.
I think I'm tunneled more than you were. But I still don't think it's 20% or anything like that. Two things. 1: If you're going off the UI - as I often do - it's hard to tell why someone is being tunneled. So it can appear a killer is tunneling because they're annoying, even though maybe the survivor was just sandbagged/sandbagging. 2. If someone gets hooked, come off the hook and immediately go back on the hook, they'll typically say they're being tunneled. Even if they're not actually killed in this sequence, I think the feeling/fear of being tunneled can't really be understated. That it doesn't happen twice in a row doesn't necessarily make it feel less bad.
i often find myself finding survivor 1, down->hook->find survivor 2, down->hook->find survivor 1 again because their saviour hides in a corner,down->hook->find survivor 3, down->hook->find survivor 1 again because the team abandoned them and noone else is to be seen so i just kill them in the time it took survivor 4 to do one gen while 2 and 3 jerk each other off in the corner
I play on SEA servers, and for the longest time I've been convinced that SEA servers are quite a bit sweatier than other servers. I'm planning on going for 1000 games to get as much data as possible, and I have VERY strict applications for what counts as tunneling - has to be killer-induced, and I have to KNOW it was killer-induced, and it has to be specifically going out of there way to get the person out of the match. That is to say, I'm not counting instances where survivors played stupid or hid from the killer basically forcing a tunnel. Preliminary data from 25 games, I have had 7 tunnelers (28%) and on average they tunneled at 3 gens. Of all the killers, 8 of them (32%) slugged for the 4K, and 60% of all killers who were on steam (which is the vast majority) had a private profile or were anonymous. Just to clarify, all things being equal as it stands, that is 7 times more tunneling on the SEA servers than on the US servers by your report.
@@sherif7491Generators are inanimate objects, not players. Tunneling makes one player unable to play the game, ruining that person's game. Gen rushing does not make the Killer unable to pilot his character. They are not even remotely the same.
True, people complain that tunneling is not fun because you die fast and don't get many points but the same exact thing can happen with toolboxes, gen perks and good gen efficency, everyone is out after 4 minutes and you have 2 hooks. What exactly is the difference here?
@@Fasumbra But the killer is a player and gen rushing ruins their game. Your mindset is part of the problem. Just because the way they do it is slightly different doesn't mean it doesn't ruin each others game. They are each sides equivalent. It's an asym game so of course they will differ some in execution, but the end result is the same: ruining the other sides experience to win ASAP. Either both are ok or both aren't, stop the hypocrisy.
I've been playing in Asia for the past 8 months (I usually play US West). The killers here tunnel more often than not. They also give hatch extremely rarely (almost never) and tend to pull out all the stops to get a 4k.
Yeah when I play late at night beyond 11 or midnight half my killers are Chinese players VPNing and the tunneling is relentless, so far I find it is VERY rare for a Chinese killer to have any chill. I got my first chill one the other day playing pig who was about to win and they knew it so they let us boop and meme and leave. First chill Chinese killer I’ve ever seen, the PvP culture there seems pretty different
While I won't say _I_ get tunneled every game (I'd have stopped playing on my PC account if that was the case) I very often see at least one person get absolutely focused (usually either the first person downed if they went down quickly or someone that put up a fight and that gets tunneled mostly out of revenge, or a streamer since they tend to get either focused down or purposefully avoided). It's also not really the amount _per-say_ that's an issue, it's the fact that it has risen since 7.5.0 (for obvious reasons) and that it made the topic somewhat resurface harder on the BHVR forums.
Im ngl ive had days where all games are awesome and nice killers play nice, surv play nice, and im having fun no matter if i win or lose. And then the next day comes its 10 blight or nurses back to back and we have one person dead by the time the first gen is done, and then the next day you have in every game the first downed who kills themselves right from the start of the game, this game's experience is just like the maps, extremely volatile
I had a game just yesterday were a guy complained about being tunneled afterwards. All four survivors made it to the end game and I’m pretty sure everyone was on death hook… I got the win but it made me feel like, “What else am I supposed to do? Just not hook survivors I’ve already hooked before?” Especially right now when I’m seeing multiple sables or entire sable SWF in a game. I have no idea who is who when the match gets intense sometimes but I’ll get told my play style is 💩I want people to have fun playing against me. I don’t want to just grief survivors but I feel like you can’t win on killer sometimes with the community.
Played four matches today, and in two of them the killer hard tunneled (and camped) from the second they loaded in. 1 huntress 1 Blight. I couldn't tell my team to leave me while the blight facecamped so he got free value out of it too. :( There was survivor/luck induced camping in the other games but I agree that sometimes that just happens and it's okay for the killer to take the opportunity or punish bad plays
I think I've been tunneled 1 time in the last few weeks. A Singularity literally was coming back to the hook as I was unhooked. I ran towards the pallet on Toba that is underneath the main building and the unhooker ran out into the open. The Singularity followed me, meanwhile we had 5 gens still to go. Kept following me until he downed me again. Then no one rescued after that. That is 1 game in about 30+ I've played in the last few weeks. It was frustrating as can be and I remember that more than the other 30 plus games I didn't get tunneled. Watching other DbD videos I see Survivors saying they are getting tunneled after getting hooked and then finishing a Gen and getting found again. To me it's just a fallback to why they lost and justifying it to themselves.
Wraith number one tunneler / hook camper imo . Soon as i see that character i already know the play style . If you avoid the infection from wesker i dont think they tunnel as much
I think proxy camping the hook is a bigger issue that leads to what is perceived as tunneling. The killer knows you inevitably need to go and unhook survivors so it makes too much sense to hang around the hook and just go get a cheap down as soon as someone comes then rinse repeat. I think they should increase the timer by maybe x3 times for when you are on hook, so that if the killer wants to hang around they'll have to waste a lot of time.
I think the key issue with all of this is the fact that tunneling has been operationalized as “focusing one person until they die.” Honestly, you and me both knew that was a rare circumstance to begin with. I think when it comes to tunneling, the thing which people complain about is the ease to which tunneling can suddenly be applied to immensely great effect. No killer player who calls themselves good will overtly tunnel to win all their games. For example, someone gets unhooked? It can become extremely easy from an opportunistic lens to go back to hook, stop the heal, willingly ‘tunnel’ the unhooked survivor to get a 2nd hook and stop ‘tunneling’ after that. However, because of that early play, the killer player (if they have good gamesense) can essentially pressure that vulnerable survivor throughout the rest of the match. I could have hooked plenty other people but now I technically never tunneled by your definition. It is already well known by good DBD players that ‘tunneling’ two survivors at once is a far stronger macro strategy that not-so-good killer players rarely employ. Additionally, the opportunity for tunneling best arrises at different points of a match. The first survivor I hooked was really strong in chase? I probably shouldn’t tunnel them. Now, what if they were on 2nd hook and I proxied such that I can ensure that survivor won’t have a chance to heal or escape. I still technically didn’t focus one guy until death but employed the principle of tunneling at the right time and place. Don’t get me wrong, I think this data is extremely valuable, and a good stepping point to see the general consensus on the perceptions of tunneling. But as I wholly believe, tunneling is far more nuanced than what has been given. If at that point we disagree that what I am describing is no longer ‘tunneling’ then there is no point in further discussion.
i love when i get unhooked right in front of the killer and the killer completely ignores the unhooker, so i stand still cause im getting tunneled at 3 gens and not having fun, then get slugged for 4 minutes cause the killer goes “why were you trolling” in endgame chat
But always remember that is the killers fault because nothing is every survivors fault. Pisses me off when my teammates are being chased and their first thought if let's go unhook......fuck off. If I die on hook because the other two don't unhook while you are being chased, so be it. But don't try to throw the killers attention onto me by unhooking me mid chase because you don't want to be chased (probably the biggest issue with this game and survivors, too many of them want to hide/sit on gens)
And you blame the killer? Because that's your teammate fault.If there is 1 gen at 80% And the killer kick it Right in front of you, what do you do? Do you continue repairing it as soon as the killer is gone or do you ignore it and go to repair another one?
I love how survivors can play as optimally as they want but when someone unhooks in front of my face and i go after that hooked person bcuz i know thats the optimal play, im literally "ruining the game experience". Meanwhile no one ever talks about boil over, flip flopping in a unhookable corner on eyrie and yet will complain about camping when you try to make sure that person goes down close to the hook again so they cant try that tactic. no one ever talks about survivors letting people die on hook for hatch, but when a killer slugs for hatch it immediately becomes a problem. I remember i once went up against a swf as hag that was calling out my traps and they had at least 2 background players and would constantly get the save even when i did try to scare them off or face a wall. Whenever i picked someone up, they would immediately trigger and run away from all my traps bcuz they knew i couldnt teleport while carrying. They ran to each pallet and the map and worked together as well as they could, all while tbagging and emoting. I was getting my ass beat and they were having the time of their life. So in order to even the field, i tunneled one guy off of hook once after they unhooked in my face.....immediately he killed himself on hook after not moving and giving up. Complained in end game about boring match as welI. I never tunnel tbh and that was like my first time doing it, but i dont see why i shouldnt just....hardcore tunnel someone out at 5 gens everytime now. Survivors can literally play and do anything and be free of persecution from one another. I was first under the idea that im runing someone's. But now i see that tbh, people just dont wanna lose, simple as that. Its just a bunch of sore losers.
Someone has never played in the korean server where you get tunneled every time you get unhooked just cause thats the normal thing to do. Is not only about american servers you know?
There is no ASIA server, there are different servers, korean server, japanese server and others. It is not exaggerating, just buy a vpn and see for youself.
Great video! I do think that a part of the problem of tunneling that you didn’t mention was that, yes, tunneling may not happen as often as people say; however, when it does rarely happen it feels really bad, self induced or not. And the argument around tunneling isn’t necessarily how do we remove tunneling from the game, but how do we change the game so that when tunneling does happen, it doesn’t feel as bad
At work - I can have 20 "good/okay" days. Every now and then - I have a SHIT day at work. In my head, I'm likely saying to everyone that I have a shit job and it's stressful etc. But in reality, it isn't. The bad just lingers harder and for longer.
11:31 Yup that's when me and my friends usually play and I do notice that we usually overall just have more chaotic and unpredictable killers than during the day so extra tunneling in those hours wouldn't surprise me a bit
People will say I tunneled if at any point during the match I hook a person twice in a row. I've had games where people called me a tunneler because one time I chased someone shortly after they get unhooked without even catching them and re hooking them. What randos consider tunneling gets wild sometimes.
Just hopped on dbd. Second game on I’m tunneled by a ghost face my teammate takes a hit for me (im playing duo) and the killer keeps chasing me so teammate takes a down then he slugs and keeps chasing me. 1/2 games so far I’ll keep y’all updated.
3rd game on tunneling/camping pig. Killer hooks first person while me and other 2 survivors are on gens. I go for save 10 secs before gen pops. Unhook, heal at hook killer comes back instantly. (Fair) I take body block hit and the killer goes after the survivor that just got unhooked even tho she’s much further. Lol. It’s meta right now to go straight back to the hook after you see they get unhooked. And pursue the survivor with more hooks.
He also camped me when I was dead on hook. Was in a chase and hit my friend and instead of continuing chase went straight back to hook and got the person coming to rescue me. Lolllll
4th game on a tunneling night lol luckily he was tunneling me tho so we got the W should’ve been a 4 man escaped but I choked. Crazy how many tunnelers there are in this game even at high ranks
I don't see tunneling as a problem. For killer it's just the most sane thing to do, turn 1v4 in 1v3. Especially after anti camp and anti 3gen changes. For surv it's skill test. You get killed fast? Git gud and bring anti-tunnel perks. You aren't tunneled? Good. You are tunneled - you get perk value.
I don’t think I’ve ever lost a game since anniversary where I’ve tunneled off the rip. Some games I play nice and then resort to tunneling because I’m playing bad and/or the survivors are playing well but some matches I kinda just wanna see how quickly I can end things and out of a sample size of maybe 15 I don’t think I’ve ever lost a single one. Acting like immediate tunneling isn’t the most sure fire way to pub stomp is ridiculous killer main entitlement lol. I agree with Scott that people VASTLY overblow how often they’re tunneled but nowhere in this video does he try to make the argument that tunneling isn’t effective lol. Wrong video mate
Also the “skill test” you’re presenting here is 9 times out of 10 a blight with 4 slowdown perks tunneling a solo lol. Momo tunneled for like 1900 games in a row and won with very little resistance.
Not counting “survivor induced” tunneling is very generous to killers. The killer is always the one who chooses who to chase, down, and hook. Tunneling is always tunneling and it’s always lame
idm not counting the survivor induced tunneling because there have been times where I got hooked, the killer went to check gens and everyone on gens hid, so the killer comes back to the hook after ive been unhooked and the unhooker hides, so he goes for me, like in that position its understandable, but the thing that I feel is a little unfair is those times when teammates have to go outof their way and give the killer a free hit / put themselves in a really bad spot JUST to take the heat off the unhooked person, which will ultimately lead to a quick down and short chase. I feel like we shouldn't have to throw ourselves at the killer and put ourselves in a really crap spot just to stop a person from being tunneled, it's almost like we have to give the killer a free hit to even tempt him into wanting to go for us instead of the unhooked, which puts us at a disadvantage depending on positioning etc.
Common or not it's kinda unhealthy. Also I think at lower skill levels it's probably more common because players don't defend each other as they should which makes tunnelling more effective then it is at higher level which you cover as 'survivor induced tunnelling'. I mean I try to 8 hook and I know I have to consciously avoid it. In most cases it's not even a case of the tunnel victim playing badly, it's just me getting so much 'info' on that person and no one else. There's still ways to combat this though. I think the killer gets way too many freebies on a potential tunnel victim. Unhook notifications, blood, gasps of pain etc. Not to mention the lack of anti tunnel perks at lower levels. Kinda wish the killer got other intel while a survivor is on a hook to encourage them to go for others. I dunno if they should know gen progress or something else (gen progress could be problematic with pop for instance). I might do this experiment too to see if my results are different cus I'm not great on survivor I admit it :D. Not awful, but my looping skills are... bad.
You can experiment with the gen progress one by using all seeing wraith or fuming mixtape legion, but I am a 90h player that sometimes feels forced to tunnel due to there being no marks off of hook and the injured guy is right there. Especially if I'm on Legion instead of Billy.
As a killer main, there aren't many times I'll actively tunnel. It's usually when I'm losing a game, and i need to get someone out quick to get more pressure. Other than that, it'll be the survivors fault. Examples being if they body block with base BT, if they are quite literally everywhere I'm looking and no one else is around, if their teammates leave them on hook till stage 2, and if they BU+FTP a teammate after i down them (they are begging for it by using that combo)
0:05 I could've told you that without doing a study. According to everyone on Reddit and YT they get tunneled, camped, AND slugged EVERY single game. People just focus way too much on the few times it happens and ignore the 100s of times it doesn't. Now you just need to do one for slugging to prove to people that it is even more rare than tunneling so people can finally stop bitching about that. So sick and tired of hearing people whine about having to sit on the ground for 4mins bleeding out but nobody will ready up at the start of game so you have to wait 1min EVERY SINGLE GAME but that's okay somehow? Will never understand why one time waster is okay but another is not. Side note on the google doc. Hysterical to me the amount of people that claim it's "tunneling" if they body block and then the killer decides to chase them. This is just proof of why words don't mean shit anymore because everyone has their own definition. 324 people on that spreadsheet think it's tunneling if they purposely get in the way of the killer and then the killer goes after them because of it. THREE HUNDRED AND TWENTY FUCKING FOUR PEOPLE are that dumb. So at least 10% of this spreadsheet are entitled survivor mains. Lol you said you played 50 games and I immediately said 5 games he had a tunneler and sure enough. I really REALLY want you to do slugging so I can see the results and watch people lose their minds when you say in 50 games you had 1 or 0 slugging killers. 5:50 I would say your skill would actually increase the odds of your teammates being tunneled. I know when I'm playing killer and I'm trying to win and I come across a good survivor I ignore them, so that means a lot more focus on the other three. 9:30 I could've filled out for Asia to add to that, because I started playing DBD while in Africa and had to play on Asia servers with 100ish ping, and played like that for ~2yrs. Didn't really notice any difference between the amount of tunneling/slugging/camping/toxicity. It's all the same compared to US East. 11:35 Counterpoint to that is, in my experience, that time period and a bit before is when everyone is playing as a SWF and sweating their asses off. The harder the matches for killer, the more likely they are to tunnel. 17:16 my biggest complaint with DBD. Playing both sides is awful because the amount of idiocy from survivors. I rage quit way more because of survivors than I do killer.
The biggest problem is people's false perception of the term "tunneling". Lots of survivors think that getting caught twice is tunneling which is false. Survivors often don't hide after getting unhooked, don't heal or try to use DS and other perks offensively and then wonder if they get hooked again. I almost never tunnel as killer and the amount of comments I get accusing me of tunneling is insane
Basically, players are spoilt. That's what I gather from this. A couple of bad games and they have a hissy fit. I have played since 2016, been camped and tunnelled countless times. I still play the game. I don't play it as often now for other reasons but camping and tunneling in my own experience were not nearly as common as many make it out to be. If anything, I get more frustrated when team mates all ditch the gens to come save me. In the few games that I do get camped and tunnelled, I would be more happy if the team mates rushed the gens and all 3 escaped. The killer would have lost the game badly and my bad experience would not have been for nothing.
I don’t think the issue with tunneling is “how often it happens” the issue is it ruins the players experience. Fuck the data, fuck the statistics. No one wants to be tunneled out of a match and this is ESPECIALLY true to new players who don’t have access to the top tier anti-tunnel perks, and don’t give a shit to buy the characters and the grind the prestige levels.
It's impossible to eliminate it entirely. There's no use in complaining so much. BHVR has already done pretty much all they can to reasonably combat it.
I am a killer main and I aim for 12 hook games. I count my hook states per person so I know when someone is on death hook and can then avoid them until a reasonable amount of hook states are on other people. And yet I have had people in post game lobbies chastise me for tunneling even when they escaped... Survivors seems to think hooked twice in a row is a tunnel.
I mean idk i recently got my gf into playing the game and she gets tunneld often super aggresivly. When im getting chased accros the map and she gets unhooked the killer allways does a 180 and runs back. its really hard to bring new ppl into the game when they have to spectate all game cuz they get turbo tunneld
my friends complain a lot about being tunneled because they end up being hooked consecutively, but a lot of the time i wouldn't call that tunneling. they get unhooked and then go back to the gen they were previously on right away. that, and they try to take extra hits with borrowed time. and then to top it off, they don't run anti-tunnel perks or things that actively help in chase, they just run toolboxes and healing perks to try and outpace the killer. that works when rng gives the killer natural disadvantages, but i think anyone who's played a decent amount of killer knows where to go and what to do to keep up. in the end, gen progress is slowed to a halt, people get slugged and "tunneled" for not playing thoughtfully, and then killer players who are literally just doing what their role is designed to do are treated like shit. i don't fault my friends for this because they're casual players, and they want to have fun but get punished for things they don't understand they're doing wrong. but dbd will always appeal to casual players, because that's what it needs to do to stay relevant. i think that it's just not a casual game and requires too much meta thinking for some people's gaming tastes.
I don't even consider survivor induced tunneling, tunelling. I consider it asking for it. I did choose the lowest option for tunneling. I certainly don't think it's occurred 1 out of 5 matches.
I usually always try to "play nice," but if I go back to a hook and someone unhooks, and then the healthy survivor goes somewhere safe while the unhealthy survivor puts themselves into a disadvantageous position, I'm going for the unhealthy one lol
In my experience I can go hours without any real tunnelling but then I will log in one day and it will be back to back hard tunnelling. I don't think it happens in every match for anyone but it does happen more than it should imo
I’ve been kinda done with this game it’s almost almost dead to me as it’s changing so much to not be so fun anymore at least in my opinion, I’ve been slowly getting back into competitive shooters again.
In Asian playstyle there is no such word as 5-gens tunnel out. This is because there are differences in the level of awareness regarding the completiing-gens in international comparisons. Just recently, a player who is well-known as a commentator at tournaments in Japan answered the question "Why can't I escape in SoloQ?" by saying "It's because you're not trying to escape." The gen completion is the survivor's attack to the killer, and the chase is defense from the killer. The survivor has HP called hook state and pallet, and survivors must end 5 gens AKA the killer's HP. That's the specific answer. If survivors don't understand this and only engage in "defense" such as chasing and flashlight saves, you will never be able to "attack" the killer. The killer can safely perform tunneling without being counterattacked. The main reason why tunnels are recommended for killers is because survivors interpret attack and defense in the opposite way. Those who view completion gens as a tedious and pointless task will continue to be tunneled forever. And they blame it on the killer.
Your solo queue survivor mmr must not be tunnel central. When I solo queue, it's a solid 50/50 at best that I'll get tunneled with 0% hits from teammates, body blocks, or basically anything except MAYBE 1-2 unhooks. Let's pit 2k+ hours alongside a squad of 3/4 noobs, cuz that's totally fair and balanced. Just remove MMR if it isn't gonna work properly
Finally! Someone came around with some actual evidence and experiments to help put this silly excuse to bed! "Tunneling" has got to be one of the most annoying justifications someone can make for losing. Maybe dont go for these pro plays/strats you saw on youtube one time but cant even pull off yourself. Like when 3 survivors try saving someone and body blocking the hook and no ones on a genie.. Like what are you doing? Whyyyyy would I chase someone full hp when I can take the optimal option of finishing off who I already have wounded? Maybe dont heal right under the hook lol. Oh dang, now you are on your second hook in under 2 minutes and still none of you are on genies. Oh but im totally tunneling you. Right... You're just not as good as you think you are champ.
I get tunneled a lot. I also TRY to get tunneled as usually i have the most hours in my lobbies. Usually my death is my team's W so i don't mind all that much.
DEAR KILLERS don't let survs or anyone else tell you what to do, feel free to play however you want , you can tunnel slug camp as much as you want, don't be fooled, you are the one who plays and you are the one who decides
I use DS every game and mostly don’t get use unless I force it. If you want to know how many games you are actually getting tunneled, use DS/OTR and see how many times you get use out of the stun/endurance AND you didn’t purposely avoid working on a generator or doing a conspicuous action to get use out of the perk.
Going for the same person till they die is the game. That definition explains why every survivor thinks they are being tunneled when they are not. Because the definition lacks the condition "ignoring all others". That definition makes it sound like I'm tunneling s1 if I hook s1 the s2, s3 and s4 and then hook s1 again. That simple explanation explains alot about the mindset of survivor mains feeling tunneled all the time.
My thing is: if survivors are purposely taking a hit with off hook BT its not tunneling its you throwing yourself infront of a killer its only logical expect to get hit
It probably varies due to mmr, killers are more likely to tunnel at a lower mmr because it takes less skill and it might be the only way they will win depending on their build or certain killer they are playing. That being said it's definitely not *every game* like people claim, its more likely that its someone gets tunneled maybe 10/50 in lower mmr and 5/50 in higher mmr. (Still a 75% chance it won't be you though, even when it being someone else basically leads to it being a impossible to win game after) So people should be saying I see a lot of tunneling instead, would make more sense statistically. Also play at degen hours so maybe it was more likely that lol
Something I never see anyone mention that is also a factor, is the cosmetic choices of survivors. If you're wearing lighter or bright colors, the killer is going to see you more easily than the survivors that aren't wearing those colors. The charms are also cosmetics to consider as well. When I look around to see where the unhooked survivor and their rescuer are, and David is hiding in a bush with dark colored clothes, and neon pink Feng is running away, I'm going to go after what caught my attention. I also see a lot of survivors unhook too early. I often can't even leave the proximity before I get the notification and turn around to see 2 or more survivors. After I hook someone, I B-line to a generator, but if I hear the unhook notification, I'm going to investigate. Let me fecking leave the area for god's sake.
Obvious counter to your argument: you’re high mmr, people-legit according to you-tunnel more the worse they are because it is an easier playstyle. (As apposed to a better one) as a player who is better you go against the better players who work with good macro and working on their killer. The fact that you got 1/10 is insane
You take a protection hit with your BT? (Feature meant to prevent tunneling BEING USED OFFENSIVELY) Yep, that's a hard tunnel for the rest of the match.
Watching this after I get hard tunneled from the beginning of the match, killer only hooked me. Ignored every other player until I died, couldn't even touch a generator the entire match. I had anti tunnelling perk and it made no difference because even after using DS there was no distance made enough for me to do anything. Tunnelling is in almost every match, if it's not me then it's someone else. BHVR encourages tunnelling and even some killers abilities do like wesker.
I don’t like tunneling but if I’m at the beginning of a round and I find the first person only for two gens to pop I immediately have to go into damage control and kill 1 person as quickly as possible. Sorry for the first person but I need to win and eventually the other survivors realize it and stop doing gens which ironically feels like a fairer game.
I get tunneled so infrequently that I can't even remember the last time it happened to me, despite it being a rare occurrence. Even if I get tunneled, I don't give a shit. It's a vidya game. Queue for another match. Spectate your friends for a bit and relax. None of it means anything. Let it ride, people. Everything will be okay.
No, your complaints about the killer playing to win are not justified. The game is about 4 people trying not to get killed by a serial killer. Survivors play to win, so it's only fair for the killer to do it to. Your fun is not my responsibility. Either get better at the game, or go play something else.
Bro i shit you not in most of my games, either me or my friend bets tunneled out immediately. First hooked? Yup theres an 80% chance the killer chases us off hook until they can hook us again then repeat it until we’re dead. Its always either me or her. If the killer has the choice between the unhooked and the rescuer, they usually go for the unhooked. I think we’re taking all your tunneling killers for you, bud, maybe thats why youre not seeing it as much.
Not that common? Played my first and only game in 2 years yesterday morning. Got tunnelled out in 5 mins and turned the fucking game off again. I'm shocked I actually thought about coming back, nice to see despite the game has changed, the players haven't.
If this is your mindset, you should've never considered returning. Its inevitable that at some point you will be tunnelled and I'm not sure why you'd play if you're this upset by it.
I think buying Zarina for her "Off the record" really helps, before I bought her I get tunneled from time to time but after buying her I no longer get tunneled! 😁
Scott "the Lich" Jund regains his youth every time he shaves and looks like he's 20 again.
Hey come on, give him some credit. He sacrificed 20 basement Invocation Sable's for that look
For real I thought this was an old video lmao
Scott Young
I thought he is around 20? He looks a third of my age anyway lol
My favorite genre of Scott jund comments are the ones that completely ignore the video topic and instead discuss the overarching lore
Scott, I think a big problem is that the community that watches your vids aren't the same casuals who think survivor induced tunneling is different from killer induced tunneling. I agree that it is completely overblown, but that it's the communities fault because they're uneducated on it, generally speaking. I also think educating the community is a monumental task, and casuals won't ever understand the difference.
Yup, I completely agree. A large portion of the complaints are actually just straight up misguided people not knowing the tunneling they're receiving is almost entirely their fault. I keep talking about it in hopes people will learn the difference so the overall complaint levels will go down, but whether or not its a fruitless endeavor doesn't really matter much because I still like discussing it.
@@ScottJund It's still unhealthy for the game IMO. Whether it happens every game or 1 in 20 or whatever is irrelevant. There's a better way for the game to be played so that more people are engaged for longer. Whether it's reducing the 'free' info killers getting on tunnel victims or making it impossible to kill anyone before 5-6 hooks or something else, there's loads of ideas to combat it and even the 'fear' of it happening.
@Peachrocks5 well in this game u either completely destroy them or they completely destroy u I was playing matches where I would tunnel and be downing them pretty quicke but gens kept flying like crazy and eventually lose
one way not to get tunneled is not to go back to the gen or place the killer found you out. If your being a dick as a survivor always flashlighting always being a dick to the killer abusing perks @@ScottJund
@@ScottJund it's kinda pointless, people refuse to play in a certain way or learn how to avoid getting into a bad situation until they complain enough to get that thing removed.
IMO, tunnelling as of now is generally a non issue. In equal skill / gear matches, actual tunnelling is not an issue as survivors that arent completely outclassed and are putting effort to win can delay the kill long enough to get through the last gens and get really high chances of escaping pretty consistently. Not even counting the possible teamwork to prevent pick ups / hooks. 1-2 antitunnelling perks, good performance and awareness that killer won't leave you no matter what can make tunnelling for the kill in first 3 hooks a surefire way to throw the game for the killer. Most basic example - predropping god pallet and making 30 seconds worth of W key distance and having killer follow you, because they have put themselves in a situation where they can't drop the chase. People often fail to recognise when hardtunnel is going to happen and dont play accordingly and that is really their fault.
In other conditions, it's not worth talking about as "balance" issue because if survivors are outclassed by the killer, it doesnt matter how they play, they would still win.
What is the ACTUAL issue is that tunnelling is not fun or rewarding, especially for the survivor that is being targeted or other people that watch their teammate get downed and hooked repeatedly. I really hope devs will for once put effort into making such scenarios still be somewhat enjoyable / rewarding variation of a match, instead of again inventing a system that nerfs killers by stripping them of a strategic choice in a match and forcing them to play in a particular way people are used to.
And ofc, it really doesn't happen that often, agreed. In my matches as the survivor I rarely experience actual tunnelling.
Scott is the type of guy to pull up with a powerpoint presentation to a DBD video.
Yeah, the issue that I run into as killer is that any time a survivor decides to play ballsy and loses immediately, they're going to complain about tunneling.
Dwight: "I'm going to sprint immediately to the hook despite the killer still being there."
That Same Dwight: "I'm going to chase the killer to flashlight stun him every time he goes for a hook."
Still Dwight: "I'm going to bodyblock the killer while on death hook."
Dwight in post-game chat: "Why do killers always tunnel???"
I'm not following YOU, you're following ME.
Also, sometimes, when you're wearing glowing neon pink clothing and I can't find anybody else, you're gonna die first.
It’s like they expect us to ignore their existence until you hook someone else, smh
Usually most complaints about tunneling or rushing and so on come down to player agency. Players want to play, and being either hurried out of the match or never getting a choice in what you do harms the experience. The technicalities behind tunneling and its definitions and scenarios are less important than acknowledging that an individual player can indeed be shut out of experiencing the match as intended.
dbd moment
What a based yet insane comment. There are technicalities in the game that cause the behavior we identify as tunneling, and the way we feel about tunneling is that it's bad. So wouldn't the technicalities be more important than focusing on the feeling that result from the technicalities?
Yea, this is pretty much the one thing I never see anyone talk about and I'm kinda annoyed that nobody does. I don't think there's any other game I've ever played where I've been denied my ability to participate in the game. I don't care if I win or lose, that doesn't matter to me. What does matter to me is whether or not I can play the game and queuing just to be forced to watch a dynamic wallpaper every like 1 in 7 to 10 games is not fun. Winning is fun most of the time. Losing can be fun sometimes. What isn't fun and never will be is not being able to play the game. At least as killer, you're still able to go around and do things. It's not like every time you get stunned it lasts for 30 seconds or something. People also tend to forget that "skill issues" is kinda hard to debate around because dbd is an asymmetrical game and the fact that map rng is such a huge element to the gameplay. The players you lose to in symmetrical games, you can do the same back to them because you both have access to the same resources and abilities. In that case, yea it really is a skill issue or some other small factors
Lopunny is the hottest Pokemon
@@cookiesalad13 i fundamentally disagree that getting tunneled is you "not participating in the game". in fact, you are the entire game. the entire game centers around you, which is why i like actually getting tunneled
Scott, I see tunneling every game and it’s absolutely shocking. (I only play killer)
For me, tunnelling only maddens me when the killer does it at 5/4 gens, as it's a boring play style and can effectively end someone's game very quickly. I expect it to happen at 1/2 gens, and if I'm the unlucky one getting tunnelled then... well, at least I'll leave the game with some decent points for doing gens/healing etc throughout the early game.
So it's more about WHEN tunnelling happens, as the killer player's mindset to just choose someone and aggressively go after them all the time from the start isn't easily counterable - especially in solo queue or if you have the wrong perks for it. So when killers moan about seeing OTR, Dead Hard, etc, all the time... it's simply because survivor players who play a lot want to safe guard their chances of being able to play a trial for longer than 4 mins.
I'll tunnel at 4 gens if I keep getting same dude coming up and body blocking me from chasing someone else, if they do that I'm putting them back down regardless of how many gens are left.
@@oneautumnleaf2622 Yeah that’s fair. I’m speaking more about survivors who have done nothing to “deserve” it, but are chased and targeted until death almost immediately and maybe did nothing in the game except lose two chases and maybe do a gen if they were lucky.
@@danowen79 Yeah but like scott showcased, that REALLY isnt as common as people like to make it out to be.... and dont make it all about you sometiimes you were just the weakest link on the team and the killer wants to pressure that link to break the chain, sometimes getting a easy down is a great way to throw the teams balancing off. I think you would be suprised at how much tunneling is actually tunneling, bc most of the games I get its people put ting themselves in these situations or doing something greedy or stupid and getting punished as a result. if I find you and ive been looking for others I could care less if I just hooked you, II found you Im downing you, thats just me playing the game. Im not going to pretend I didnt see you.
@@oneautumnleaf2622 Yeah. To me tunnelling is typically when you’re unhooked and the killer comes back and aggressively goes after you again until you’re hooked again, rather than focus on the rescuer, at 4/5 gens. That’s when it gets to me. You can get lucky by having perks on to make it frustrating, or the rng of a map will help, or you outplay the killer in loops - but the game is designed around killers being able to down a survivor under 60 seconds. So a tunneller can remove someone in under 5 mins and it’s not fun. The other 3 survivors likely lose the trial too as 3v1 favours the killer
No amount of perks can stop the tunneling, you need survivors on gens, you need a good map, good pallets and it all means nothing if it’s a nurse. However, the only times I have been “hardcore tunneled” was against a huntress and I could tell it was personal, he really didn’t like me, but the entire time I was like: “who are you?” I don’t remember players names so his entire malicious actions were just on his head, I went into the next match like nothing happened
Scott the issue isn't that its everywhere, otherwise we'd all just run anti tunneling perks and win, the issue is you have no way to prepare for it and when it happens it's just "oh okay so I guess I'm not having fun"
You can call me crazy but i like beeing tunnelt by the killer just because i dont see it as not allowed to having fun i see it as a personal 1v1 where the better player wins yeah many times i die quickly but many times i dont but i get it that many players hate it
It's not a big problem till it happens three games in a row and I just don't want to play the game for a week after.
yeah its possible to roll the dice that badly and have a rough time unfortunately
@@ScottJund And yet every time you make a video about something dumb on Twitter, you get people calling you an idiot. Very unlucky, maybe one of these times it'll stick.
Just play killer. 4Head
@@ScottJund This is how i usually see tunnling go . Im hardly the victim . But i wont see it for games and games . Then 3 or 4 games in a row the killer will just go for the rando hooked first . Also most of the time if the killer is going straight back to the hook , he is going for the unhooked guy . That is a pre determined action . However me personally i hardly feel i get tunneled much . Never run second chance perks .
That MIGHT be a skill issue
I don't think the problem is how much Tunneling is seen, I think the balance around how easy it is to do that is the problem. You talk about the killer going for the EASY target (which is fair) but when you add how easy it is to tunnel (the skill part) that isn't fair in a game where virtually every other aspect (Maps, pallets) are being reduced in size and strength. As for how much it is seen, I think that depends on your own experience. For me, it depends on the killers I see... I see more Blights doing it vs Trappers (as an example) Blights who are stronger than Trapper, can get to a hook faster, so in that sense I think that is a big balance problem. Not just for the game as a whole but tunneling itself.
The tunneling issue is such a difficult thing to fix because sometimes tunneling can feel like such a necessity when someone is running problematic perks like buckle up+ftp or background player as keeping them in the game only causes issues later on which can cost the win
Other theory. The people who play late are more irritable, and therefore remember or feel they remember the negative experiences of getting tunneled more...
Honestly I think a large reason why it feels shitty to not win in this game is cause of how little you get when you lose, despite your time investment. When you get tunneled it feels even worse. I honestly am struggling to want to play this game after Blood Moon cause of how little BPs I get. Losing would not feel so bad if Blood Moon BPs was permanent. The grind is way too vast even for someone who has a lot of time if they have a lot of characters. I can’t imagine how bad it is for a more casual player.
If you follow the bloodpoint bonus and not just play survivor the whole timee you will see that the bloodpoints actually come pretty easily. This is what I usually do and I can't spend them fast enough.
even when i win sometimes i dont get a ton of stuff unless there was a couple bp offerings
Yea that whole event made me realize just how weak the BP gain is even after the permabuff a while back.
And with the addition of each new character dlc the grind just gets a little bit worse. I loved the immense blood points you got during the event and almost immediately lost motivation to play once it ejded
The big big big whammy of discouragement is when the game is running multiple stacked blood point bonuses togethers, so you get +500% survivor blood points off your tunneled score of 600 - which is a whopping 3600, rather than the 36000 you would have gotten any day of playing killer WHILE LOSING.
Part of the reason why some people claim they get tunnelled "all the time" is because they forget the times they weren't tunnelled
Yeah he mentioned that in the video.
I bet they do get tunneled all the time, but they bring it on themselves. They do braindead plays that makes them be the logical target choice for the killer, then blame their mistakes on the killer.
@@hardboiled2987 Yeah, for that reason I dodge any lobby in soloQ, where I see three flashlights. Because I know, that with 87% certainty it will be a fast one. No need to get caught up in the massacre, that is about to take place.
This guy has no idea what he's talking about. I encounter tunneling in 100% of the games I play killer
Skill issue lmao It happens in maybe 30% of the matches I play now a days killers now a days play the game on easy mode compared to old days
This is not my experience. Since the DS nerf, "killer induced tunneling" was happening at least 50% of the time. The past month or so its calmed down a bit, but it was really bad for a long time.
I don't consider "survivor induced tunneling" to be tunneling, personally. If an unhooked survivor attempts to body block and reengage the killer, theyre fair game. If tunneling wasnt happening a lot, then you wouldnt have so many killers hating DS in its current state and the soon to be slightly buffed state.
Based comment, and yeah, Scott loves blaming survivors for things.
Since I discovered this strategy I have never played differently, I will explain why. During last 7 years I played against almost all EU pro players. The biggest reason is - I love to win, and over the years against various metas it is still the most reliable strategy. Secondly, you never know who you are playing against, I am at a high MMR, so I immediately start playing seriously, so as not to regret it later. If this bothers you, no one is stopping you from taking OTR, DS, DH. together with something else strong. I ll play the way i like, not someone else. I payed money for the game.
true
you are at 4 or 5 gens and you are about to put a death hook survivor on the hook. do you need to kill them to feel like you've won? are you scared that you could ever lose that match?
@@ZakkeV Well yes, killing survivors make me feel like i won because i clearly did. The faster - the better. I rarly lose becouse i play only Nurse/Spirit, but when it happends i am sitting and amalizing mistakes i made. I just rly enjoy winning in this game. That's it.
@@0xEF666 if you're gonna tunnel and stomp most of your matches I hope that's enough fun for you that you don't care how shitty the match is for everyone else. winning as killer is not hard
Bro is the grown man pushing the middleschool kids down at the Y in the afternoon playing rec basketball.
People forgot what unhook farming is
@larsliamvilhelmif you unhook in my face I'm putting that same surv back on the hook. It's called efficiency
@larsliamvilhelmnot really its still just 2 hits
@larsliamvilhelm just run distortion so the killer can't find anyone else.
In all seriousness though sounds a little like the anticamp meter. Killers can't be right in the survivors face anymore but even though they are proxying they are somewhat still ironically playing dbd again.
That still doesn’t warrant for the killer to go and kill the person off the hook. Why aren’t they killing the unhooking abuser? It’s common sense to stop going for people that just got unhooked. If a killer goes back to a hook and chases a survivor right off then you’re tunneling no excuse for what another survivor did because it’s not up to their choice that the killer is going to tunnel.
@@humbletotodileit’s actually not more efficient, you can just hit the unhooker twice if they unhook in your face which is far faster than waiting out basekit bt
My friend she’s tunneled every match if she plays good they will ignore anyone else until she’s dead even if they’re doing gens right by chase so it’s common but not for everyone I guess
It used to be you could "win" without actually killing anyone if you were playing well enough. I've played for 12 hooks for the vast majority of my "career" in DBD, and ever since they moved away from using Emblems to rate performance the game has suffered for it. Making the only thing that matters be "did you kill more than 2 survivors?" has made tunneling look more and more attractive to Killers whose sole focus is winning.
Similarly, making the sole method of winning for Survivors be "did you escape?" has caused a similar problem, where anything other than an escape feels like the game is looking down on your efforts. I used to play giga healing builds as a Survivor and play fully altruistically because even though I suck at chases I could still "win" if I did a couple Gens and unhooked+healed people before I died.
These things combined have massively widened the division between Killers and Survivors. The niggling reminder in the back of your head that you're "losing" even though you're playing well has frustrated players, and many of them lash out at their opponents because they "make them lose" instead of it being possible for both sides to win with good play. You could 8 hook survivors and pip, while they also all pip, and everyone walks away thinking "that was fun" because no one "lost".
I know the Emblem system has its own issues, but I really wish BHVR would take it back into consideration. I'm sure it's much, MUCH easier to manage matchmaking when you base things on something as binary as kills/surviving, but it is super damaging to everyone's enjoyment of the game to make things so cut and dry. The Emblem system obfuscates how "bad" you played, making it easier to look at blood points earned or getting an Iri Emblem in certain categories so the PLAYER can decide if they feel like they won, instead of the stark feeling of "nope, you died so you suck LOL".
Sorry for the wall of text, hope you're doing well Scoot.
Bro wrote a lil essay on dbd in a youtube comment section🤓☝️
Completely agree, I also miss being able to adept a killer while still giving hatch to last man standing, (especially when I downed them but having the safety net for the RNG part of it was also nice)
@@cornpop838well done you’re everyone is clapping champ
I had a game 1 night where i got giga tunneled by a wraith, proxy camped the hook and came for only me. So next game i put on DS, OTR, dead hard for the rest of the night. Was not tunneled again a single time and remembered why i dont run anti tunnel. Its just not that common, so i happily went back to my background player flashbang the next gaming sesh 😈
Totally agree. There was 3 games I played in which I would say I got tunneled for all 3 in a row. The first one, the clown had one hook at 1 gen left. Good 3 gen, and he tunneled me out. Me not being a good survivor, I understand that. Totally valid and definitely necessary to attempt to bring the game back. The next two however: A p100 nurse followed by a p100 blight, both with 4 slowdowns AND map offerings (midwich and autohavens respectively) tunneled me out at 5 gens. I doublechecked later a found I had the least hours of my team both times (not sure if that played a role, just interesting to note). Whilst it’s not fair to take the game outside of the game to get angry at those players, that did indeed stop me from playing any more.
Additional note: I usually don’t see tunneling at all. It was just an unfortunate few games in a row.
One thing I've noticed tho are scenarios where survivor induced tunneling turns into straight up tunneling. Like either a killer just thinks "they're death hook, might as well kill them". Or I take a hit, barely use the speedboost, and they go back on the survivor, with sometimes more distance to them than I do.
i'd say there's tunneling in most of my games but uhhhhhhh ... im a killer main
That poor guy who gets tunneled the most by Otzdarva... 8:37
Despite you saying that a large number of people polled shared a similar definition of tunnelling I don’t think that’s overall the case in the community. There are definitely a lot of subjective (and incorrect) opinions about what tunnelling actually is.
Also context is important- if I get tunnelled or tunnel in end game I’m seeing that as totally normal behaviour. If a killer decides at 1 gen left they think the best action to win is tunnelling the recently unhooked survivor who is on death hook then so be it- it’s still “tunnelling” but if you’re expecting the killer not to make that decision then you’re asking the killer to lower their chances of winning for your fun. Don’t expect that of anyone and appreciate it if it happens to you, but don’t think it should be the norm.
1-2 gens left, if no one is dead or on death hook, someone needs to be. If it doesn't happen, killers will more than likely lose the game.
@@Timothee_Chalamet_CMBYN news flash, people who responded to one unofficial poll made by one guy are not the majority in the community.
There's a lot of healing under hook, as well occasions in which both leave for a safer spot, but one or the other player does not have a plan to heal afterwards. I would guess there's a lot of players that have seen PopularStreamer heal under hook, and don't notice the contextual information they use to decide that's safe-ish.
@@Timothee_Chalamet_CMBYN Really can’t say I agree. Half the unhook protection comes in the form of haste; and a killer that’s trying to pressure other stuff before tunneling only knows about the hook position, not the victim’s position 15 seconds later.
If they were plainly camping, then unhook as late as possible and run. If they gave some space or got in a nearby chase but you think they may return, at least give a bit of distance and some visual cover, so the killer has a chance of losing track of them. Especially important with killers who have ranged attacks or quick traversal powers.
Healing under hook is generally okay if you know the killer is actively chasing somewhere across the map, or you feel sure you can both reach a safe loop if they arrive. Otherwise, I’d be careful.
I kept track of my survivor games for about 3 months back when DS was nerfed into the ground, including how many times someone was attempted to be tunneled (defined as in chase within a short period of being unhooked, and then downed to differentiate between 'just' camping and going for the unhooker), and it was over 80% for at least once a match, and around 20% to happen to the same person twice. It's gotten significantly worse since then because they keep buffing proxy camping. I'm trusting my lying eyes over a spreadsheet likely filled with killer-only responses.
I believe people get tunneled often. But I think it's across the player-base as a whole. I like to believe I get tunneled often, but I don't. It does happen more frequently than I wish it did, though.
My problem with tunneling is how often people are experiencing it and how powerful it is. There should be no reason the Killer can go after someone right after they are taken off the Hook. I do also believe that in some situations, players feel that tunneling is necessary or fundamental to the gameplay. Personally, I think that it's lame and unfun for both sides. No Killer wants to resort to that when they're playing well, and no Survivor wants it to come to that.
Killers playing badly should be punished, same with Survivor. Survivors playing badly should be punished. But there shouldn't be "feel-better" mechanics that allow one side to comeback from those situations.
Tunneling shouldn't be rewarded as heavily as it is, and the most it should do is have the Killer throw the entire match. Survivors body-blocking shouldn't be rewarded in my opinion either, as it only causes more problems for both sides, like the example you stated in your video with Survivor induced tunneling.
Tunneling doesn't exist because it's literally a game losing strategy with all the things added and taken away.
There was a study done that found that it takes around 5 positive memories to cancel out 1 negative memory
The reason I find this so interesting is, off this data, DbD players are having 9 positive matches for every 1 negative match (45/50 = 9/10) and STILL not letting it cancel out the negative match
DbD players are quite literally psychological anomalies
To be fair considering that the escape rates for solo is 40%, it's not surprising that there's a lot of negativity and overfocusing on the negative.
The only anomaly is your math.
The ratio of 9 positive matches to 1 negative match is not supported by the data you provided. The data you cited suggests it takes 5 positive memories to cancel out 1 negative memory, not a 9:1 ratio.
Even if the ratio was 9:1, that does not necessarily mean the negative memories are not being "cancelled out." The 5:1 ratio from the original study is about the relative impact of positive vs. negative experiences, not a strict cancellation. Negative experiences can still have an effect even if outweighed by positive ones.
Human psychology and response to experiences is complex and cannot be boiled down to a simple mathematical formula. The 5:1 ratio is a generalization, and individual responses can vary greatly based on many factors.
Assuming DbD players are "psychological anomalies" based on this flawed math oversimplifies a complex issue. Player experiences and responses to a game can be influenced by many factors beyond just the ratio of positive to negative matches.
Or its indicative of a player base that really doesn't have positive thoughts about this game and they are just addicted to the game so all that stands out is the negative moments.
@Peachrocks5 u shouldn't follow that since they still did count all the ones who kill themselves on hook
@@MightyBojangles It's not that deep man, I was just making a joke
The joke is that it usually takes 5 positive memories to remember positive things but only 1 negative to remember the negative. In 50 games, 45 didn't have any tunneling, which simplifies to 10 games with 9 not having tunneling. The part of the DbD community looked at in this video tends to say they get tunneled more than not, which means they need not only more than 5 games to remember, but more than 9 games for every 1 game they get tunneled. The joke is that there's an irony to how a one-off scientific study differs from the players that complain about tunneling in this game. Hopefully I could help you understand the joke.
I had 20 games today and in 6 of them there was a hard core tunneler who no matter what just went for the same guy over and over, (Chucky, x2Deathslinger, Wesker, Wraith, Billy) It doesn't happen more than half the time and it may feel rare sometimes, but it's defiantly an issue within the game and kinda unhealthy.
Not every survivor, every game gives up and kills themselves on hook, but I think we can all agree it dose happen, it happens more than it should, and it is a problem. same goes for tunneling.
I agree and I think that is something Scott is overlooking. He makes the point that survivors are tunnelled less frequently than they claim (which may be true for most), however he glosses over a ~20% tunnelling average as okay.... If tunnelling occurs in 1/5 matches then thats one in 5 matches that are ruined due to a systemic problem in the game. Something needs to be done to address "killer based tunnelling" just like the default anti camping and 3 genning changes that have made a big difference (for most killers).
@@Finniann Honestly I haven't had gen rushing as a problem in months. But maybe that's down to the killers that I play.
If you are talking about more important inherent problems honestly I would've expected map imbalance and killer specific problems to turn up first.
@@Finniann Thats fair, I saw that the BNP changes made little difference to gen-rushing. What perks do you normally run? I almost always run Discordance because its great for finding and disrupting multiple survivors (especially those looking to gen rush).
On top of it being overblown who cares if you get tunneled. What else is there to do, sit on gens? If I get tunneled on survivor and get a good chase in I'm happy. I had a bubba face camping and trying to tunnel me out the whole match yesterday and it was super fun. Everyone else was able to escape and I got my loops in. If anything I'm more annoyed when teammates get tunneled cause then all I can really do is gens
I mean with that logic you are always less likely to get tunneled due to three other players so more often than not you will have matches where you just have to sit on gens due to tunneling.
Or you know, a killer spreads out their chase effectively slowing more than one player down in a match so they can get more than maybe 2 kills a match.
@@ReactiveDeactive Yeah I agree! But 99% of the time people are complaining about themselves getting tunneled, not their teammates. If people complained about teammates getting tunneled and having to sit on gens all game I'd honestly agree
I have noticed less tunneling since the base BT, and even more now with grim embrace. Healthy changes like this promote less tunneling, not to say tunneling isn't a strategy still used it sure is. It probably depends on if killers are seeing more anti-tunneling perks in their games in respects to it. Even then I like being tunneled as a survivor so it's whatever. Proxy camping on the other hand happens about the same, as unhooking yourself hardly happens.
Facts even tho I did have a blight try to "tunnel" me earlier it was the only game today that happened. He had barbeque and lethal and definitely saw me as a weak link since it was my first game on but I still got out using lockers/iron will
The problem with the questionnaire was it only asked how often you personally get tunneled. My matches that are ruined is from other people getting tunneled, not myself. I can't sit on a chair with 3 bricks for legs and a toothpick as the 4th.
100% correct.
There's that, and also stuff like the dude who played eight hours was playing in mainly a SWF, running a flashlight, and the group was actively trying to protect everyone that was being tunneled. The Trickster game, for example, the Trickster dropped chase with someone after hitting them to rush back to the unhook, ride their ass waiting out unhook BT, and instantly downed the person. But that didn't count as tunneling to Scott because there were two people hovering nearby to protect them. And in a lot of those games, the killer only got 3-4 hooks anyway.
So it's not that there was no tunneling attempted, it's that the survivors were playing in a coordinated and aggressive way to pull aggro and prevent teammates from being tunneled. Which is 1.) Not how regular solo queue goes, and 2.) seen as the height of being a toxic bully squad from the killer community and excuse for maximal griefing when it doesn't work, which it won't because SOLO QUEUE.
Yeah, someone pointed this out in the survey too. I'm not often the weak link on the team, and when I am, I kinda just accept that as consequence. But when I can see that a teammate isn't getting to do anything, it's still a mood ruiner and can even ruin our chances at escape because the victim isn't really giving 2-gen chases.
His whole definition misses the forest for the trees. If, for example, a killer hard camps the first hook, downs the attempted unhook, forcing the second stage, hooks that person, and then immediately comes back to the hook to force the first person out, that's not tunneling at all according to him. They hooked someone else, after all, and survivors by not swarming the hook 'put the killer in that situation', so it's 'survivor induced,' which is total BS. Their intention from the start was to focus the person out ASAP. Does it really make a difference how?
Likewise, just because a killer can't find someone they're trying to tunnel, doesn't mean they're not trying to tunnel. I expect a killer more often than not to drop chase the second there's an unhook, especially if it's one with mobility like Dredge/Sadako/Blight/Nurse to go straight back to the hook. He only counts tunneling if it's successful, when the expectation of it is already completely warping player behavior.
@@arcarc2663 thats not even remotely true, i absolutely count that as tunneling, what
People will never stick to strict definitions because then they can't fall back on tunneling as an excuse for why they lost. Same with camping, I've been told by multiple people that I was facecamping from outside facecamp timer range, nearly halfway across the map.
I don't see tunneling as any different than just being efficient on gens. Sometimes the best option is to just tunnel someone, simple as that. It's not some personal attack, it's just playing the game. Almost always it's because they rushed for the unhook too soon, or healed under hook. They try to save time, I do the same.
I think I'm tunneled more than you were. But I still don't think it's 20% or anything like that. Two things.
1: If you're going off the UI - as I often do - it's hard to tell why someone is being tunneled. So it can appear a killer is tunneling because they're annoying, even though maybe the survivor was just sandbagged/sandbagging.
2. If someone gets hooked, come off the hook and immediately go back on the hook, they'll typically say they're being tunneled. Even if they're not actually killed in this sequence, I think the feeling/fear of being tunneled can't really be understated. That it doesn't happen twice in a row doesn't necessarily make it feel less bad.
i often find myself finding survivor 1, down->hook->find survivor 2, down->hook->find survivor 1 again because their saviour hides in a corner,down->hook->find survivor 3, down->hook->find survivor 1 again because the team abandoned them and noone else is to be seen so i just kill them in the time it took survivor 4 to do one gen while 2 and 3 jerk each other off in the corner
I play on SEA servers, and for the longest time I've been convinced that SEA servers are quite a bit sweatier than other servers. I'm planning on going for 1000 games to get as much data as possible, and I have VERY strict applications for what counts as tunneling - has to be killer-induced, and I have to KNOW it was killer-induced, and it has to be specifically going out of there way to get the person out of the match. That is to say, I'm not counting instances where survivors played stupid or hid from the killer basically forcing a tunnel. Preliminary data from 25 games, I have had 7 tunnelers (28%) and on average they tunneled at 3 gens. Of all the killers, 8 of them (32%) slugged for the 4K, and 60% of all killers who were on steam (which is the vast majority) had a private profile or were anonymous. Just to clarify, all things being equal as it stands, that is 7 times more tunneling on the SEA servers than on the US servers by your report.
Tunneling is the killer version of gen rushing, it’s a strategy to win (a strategy that doesn’t work all the time nor intended every-time).
Haha this is the comment that just kills the video.
This community is full of hypocrisy like how is gen rushing ok and making game over in 3min a flex but tunneling and getting someone out a shame
@@sherif7491Generators are inanimate objects, not players. Tunneling makes one player unable to play the game, ruining that person's game. Gen rushing does not make the Killer unable to pilot his character. They are not even remotely the same.
True, people complain that tunneling is not fun because you die fast and don't get many points but the same exact thing can happen with toolboxes, gen perks and good gen efficency, everyone is out after 4 minutes and you have 2 hooks. What exactly is the difference here?
@@Fasumbra But the killer is a player and gen rushing ruins their game. Your mindset is part of the problem. Just because the way they do it is slightly different doesn't mean it doesn't ruin each others game. They are each sides equivalent. It's an asym game so of course they will differ some in execution, but the end result is the same: ruining the other sides experience to win ASAP. Either both are ok or both aren't, stop the hypocrisy.
I've been playing in Asia for the past 8 months (I usually play US West). The killers here tunnel more often than not. They also give hatch extremely rarely (almost never) and tend to pull out all the stops to get a 4k.
Yeah when I play late at night beyond 11 or midnight half my killers are Chinese players VPNing and the tunneling is relentless, so far I find it is VERY rare for a Chinese killer to have any chill. I got my first chill one the other day playing pig who was about to win and they knew it so they let us boop and meme and leave. First chill Chinese killer I’ve ever seen, the PvP culture there seems pretty different
While I won't say _I_ get tunneled every game (I'd have stopped playing on my PC account if that was the case) I very often see at least one person get absolutely focused (usually either the first person downed if they went down quickly or someone that put up a fight and that gets tunneled mostly out of revenge, or a streamer since they tend to get either focused down or purposefully avoided).
It's also not really the amount _per-say_ that's an issue, it's the fact that it has risen since 7.5.0 (for obvious reasons) and that it made the topic somewhat resurface harder on the BHVR forums.
Im ngl ive had days where all games are awesome and nice killers play nice, surv play nice, and im having fun no matter if i win or lose. And then the next day comes its 10 blight or nurses back to back and we have one person dead by the time the first gen is done, and then the next day you have in every game the first downed who kills themselves right from the start of the game, this game's experience is just like the maps, extremely volatile
I had a game just yesterday were a guy complained about being tunneled afterwards. All four survivors made it to the end game and I’m pretty sure everyone was on death hook… I got the win but it made me feel like, “What else am I supposed to do? Just not hook survivors I’ve already hooked before?” Especially right now when I’m seeing multiple sables or entire sable SWF in a game. I have no idea who is who when the match gets intense sometimes but I’ll get told my play style is 💩I want people to have fun playing against me. I don’t want to just grief survivors but I feel like you can’t win on killer sometimes with the community.
My favorite is when the survivors tell me to run barbecue because I’m camping gens. As trapper.
Played four matches today, and in two of them the killer hard tunneled (and camped) from the second they loaded in. 1 huntress 1 Blight. I couldn't tell my team to leave me while the blight facecamped so he got free value out of it too. :(
There was survivor/luck induced camping in the other games but I agree that sometimes that just happens and it's okay for the killer to take the opportunity or punish bad plays
I think I've been tunneled 1 time in the last few weeks. A Singularity literally was coming back to the hook as I was unhooked. I ran towards the pallet on Toba that is underneath the main building and the unhooker ran out into the open. The Singularity followed me, meanwhile we had 5 gens still to go. Kept following me until he downed me again. Then no one rescued after that. That is 1 game in about 30+ I've played in the last few weeks. It was frustrating as can be and I remember that more than the other 30 plus games I didn't get tunneled. Watching other DbD videos I see Survivors saying they are getting tunneled after getting hooked and then finishing a Gen and getting found again. To me it's just a fallback to why they lost and justifying it to themselves.
The aggressive body block off of hook is my favorite type of tunneling. 🤣
Wraith number one tunneler / hook camper imo . Soon as i see that character i already know the play style . If you avoid the infection from wesker i dont think they tunnel as much
I think proxy camping the hook is a bigger issue that leads to what is perceived as tunneling. The killer knows you inevitably need to go and unhook survivors so it makes too much sense to hang around the hook and just go get a cheap down as soon as someone comes then rinse repeat. I think they should increase the timer by maybe x3 times for when you are on hook, so that if the killer wants to hang around they'll have to waste a lot of time.
I think the key issue with all of this is the fact that tunneling has been operationalized as “focusing one person until they die.” Honestly, you and me both knew that was a rare circumstance to begin with. I think when it comes to tunneling, the thing which people complain about is the ease to which tunneling can suddenly be applied to immensely great effect.
No killer player who calls themselves good will overtly tunnel to win all their games. For example, someone gets unhooked? It can become extremely easy from an opportunistic lens to go back to hook, stop the heal, willingly ‘tunnel’ the unhooked survivor to get a 2nd hook and stop ‘tunneling’ after that.
However, because of that early play, the killer player (if they have good gamesense) can essentially pressure that vulnerable survivor throughout the rest of the match. I could have hooked plenty other people but now I technically never tunneled by your definition. It is already well known by good DBD players that ‘tunneling’ two survivors at once is a far stronger macro strategy that not-so-good killer players rarely employ.
Additionally, the opportunity for tunneling best arrises at different points of a match. The first survivor I hooked was really strong in chase? I probably shouldn’t tunnel them. Now, what if they were on 2nd hook and I proxied such that I can ensure that survivor won’t have a chance to heal or escape. I still technically didn’t focus one guy until death but employed the principle of tunneling at the right time and place.
Don’t get me wrong, I think this data is extremely valuable, and a good stepping point to see the general consensus on the perceptions of tunneling. But as I wholly believe, tunneling is far more nuanced than what has been given. If at that point we disagree that what I am describing is no longer ‘tunneling’ then there is no point in further discussion.
i love when i get unhooked right in front of the killer and the killer completely ignores the unhooker, so i stand still cause im getting tunneled at 3 gens and not having fun, then get slugged for 4 minutes cause the killer goes “why were you trolling” in endgame chat
Only give up when your on hooks, don't ever afk boots on the ground
@@jacobharper9236 if i get unhooked and my unhooker runs off to hide while we’re in the terror radius im giving up, im straight up getting farmed
But always remember that is the killers fault because nothing is every survivors fault. Pisses me off when my teammates are being chased and their first thought if let's go unhook......fuck off. If I die on hook because the other two don't unhook while you are being chased, so be it. But don't try to throw the killers attention onto me by unhooking me mid chase because you don't want to be chased (probably the biggest issue with this game and survivors, too many of them want to hide/sit on gens)
And you blame the killer? Because that's your teammate fault.If there is 1 gen at 80% And the killer kick it Right in front of you, what do you do? Do you continue repairing it as soon as the killer is gone or do you ignore it and go to repair another one?
@@kruxez when did i say it was the killers fault, i literally said my team mate is unhooking and farming me
I love how survivors can play as optimally as they want but when someone unhooks in front of my face and i go after that hooked person bcuz i know thats the optimal play, im literally "ruining the game experience". Meanwhile no one ever talks about boil over, flip flopping in a unhookable corner on eyrie and yet will complain about camping when you try to make sure that person goes down close to the hook again so they cant try that tactic. no one ever talks about survivors letting people die on hook for hatch, but when a killer slugs for hatch it immediately becomes a problem. I remember i once went up against a swf as hag that was calling out my traps and they had at least 2 background players and would constantly get the save even when i did try to scare them off or face a wall. Whenever i picked someone up, they would immediately trigger and run away from all my traps bcuz they knew i couldnt teleport while carrying. They ran to each pallet and the map and worked together as well as they could, all while tbagging and emoting. I was getting my ass beat and they were having the time of their life. So in order to even the field, i tunneled one guy off of hook once after they unhooked in my face.....immediately he killed himself on hook after not moving and giving up. Complained in end game about boring match as welI. I never tunnel tbh and that was like my first time doing it, but i dont see why i shouldnt just....hardcore tunnel someone out at 5 gens everytime now. Survivors can literally play and do anything and be free of persecution from one another. I was first under the idea that im runing someone's. But now i see that tbh, people just dont wanna lose, simple as that. Its just a bunch of sore losers.
Someone has never played in the korean server where you get tunneled every time you get unhooked just cause thats the normal thing to do. Is not only about american servers you know?
There is no ASIA server, there are different servers, korean server, japanese server and others. It is not exaggerating, just buy a vpn and see for youself.
@@AprilKim8888and in asian servers tunneling is not condoned, survivors fully expect to get tunneled and consider it A-OK
Great video! I do think that a part of the problem of tunneling that you didn’t mention was that, yes, tunneling may not happen as often as people say; however, when it does rarely happen it feels really bad, self induced or not. And the argument around tunneling isn’t necessarily how do we remove tunneling from the game, but how do we change the game so that when tunneling does happen, it doesn’t feel as bad
At work - I can have 20 "good/okay" days. Every now and then - I have a SHIT day at work. In my head, I'm likely saying to everyone that I have a shit job and it's stressful etc. But in reality, it isn't. The bad just lingers harder and for longer.
11:31 Yup that's when me and my friends usually play and I do notice that we usually overall just have more chaotic and unpredictable killers than during the day so extra tunneling in those hours wouldn't surprise me a bit
People will say I tunneled if at any point during the match I hook a person twice in a row. I've had games where people called me a tunneler because one time I chased someone shortly after they get unhooked without even catching them and re hooking them. What randos consider tunneling gets wild sometimes.
people have old ds engraved into their brains so much that they think that if they get hooked in that amount of time they are getting tunneled
Just hopped on dbd. Second game on I’m tunneled by a ghost face my teammate takes a hit for me (im playing duo) and the killer keeps chasing me so teammate takes a down then he slugs and keeps chasing me. 1/2 games so far I’ll keep y’all updated.
3rd game on tunneling/camping pig. Killer hooks first person while me and other 2 survivors are on gens. I go for save 10 secs before gen pops. Unhook, heal at hook killer comes back instantly. (Fair) I take body block hit and the killer goes after the survivor that just got unhooked even tho she’s much further. Lol. It’s meta right now to go straight back to the hook after you see they get unhooked. And pursue the survivor with more hooks.
Now the killer is slugging my friend and waiting for him to die because he was going to wiggle off. Mind you I’m iridescent II. 😂😂
He also camped me when I was dead on hook. Was in a chase and hit my friend and instead of continuing chase went straight back to hook and got the person coming to rescue me. Lolllll
4th game on a tunneling night lol luckily he was tunneling me tho so we got the W should’ve been a 4 man escaped but I choked. Crazy how many tunnelers there are in this game even at high ranks
I don't see tunneling as a problem. For killer it's just the most sane thing to do, turn 1v4 in 1v3. Especially after anti camp and anti 3gen changes. For surv it's skill test. You get killed fast? Git gud and bring anti-tunnel perks. You aren't tunneled? Good. You are tunneled - you get perk value.
I don’t think I’ve ever lost a game since anniversary where I’ve tunneled off the rip. Some games I play nice and then resort to tunneling because I’m playing bad and/or the survivors are playing well but some matches I kinda just wanna see how quickly I can end things and out of a sample size of maybe 15 I don’t think I’ve ever lost a single one. Acting like immediate tunneling isn’t the most sure fire way to pub stomp is ridiculous killer main entitlement lol. I agree with Scott that people VASTLY overblow how often they’re tunneled but nowhere in this video does he try to make the argument that tunneling isn’t effective lol. Wrong video mate
Also the “skill test” you’re presenting here is 9 times out of 10 a blight with 4 slowdown perks tunneling a solo lol. Momo tunneled for like 1900 games in a row and won with very little resistance.
Not counting “survivor induced” tunneling is very generous to killers. The killer is always the one who chooses who to chase, down, and hook. Tunneling is always tunneling and it’s always lame
idm not counting the survivor induced tunneling because there have been times where I got hooked, the killer went to check gens and everyone on gens hid, so the killer comes back to the hook after ive been unhooked and the unhooker hides, so he goes for me, like in that position its understandable, but the thing that I feel is a little unfair is those times when teammates have to go outof their way and give the killer a free hit / put themselves in a really bad spot JUST to take the heat off the unhooked person, which will ultimately lead to a quick down and short chase. I feel like we shouldn't have to throw ourselves at the killer and put ourselves in a really crap spot just to stop a person from being tunneled, it's almost like we have to give the killer a free hit to even tempt him into wanting to go for us instead of the unhooked, which puts us at a disadvantage depending on positioning etc.
Common or not it's kinda unhealthy. Also I think at lower skill levels it's probably more common because players don't defend each other as they should which makes tunnelling more effective then it is at higher level which you cover as 'survivor induced tunnelling'. I mean I try to 8 hook and I know I have to consciously avoid it. In most cases it's not even a case of the tunnel victim playing badly, it's just me getting so much 'info' on that person and no one else.
There's still ways to combat this though. I think the killer gets way too many freebies on a potential tunnel victim. Unhook notifications, blood, gasps of pain etc. Not to mention the lack of anti tunnel perks at lower levels. Kinda wish the killer got other intel while a survivor is on a hook to encourage them to go for others. I dunno if they should know gen progress or something else (gen progress could be problematic with pop for instance). I might do this experiment too to see if my results are different cus I'm not great on survivor I admit it :D. Not awful, but my looping skills are... bad.
You can experiment with the gen progress one by using all seeing wraith or fuming mixtape legion, but I am a 90h player that sometimes feels forced to tunnel due to there being no marks off of hook and the injured guy is right there. Especially if I'm on Legion instead of Billy.
As a killer main, there aren't many times I'll actively tunnel. It's usually when I'm losing a game, and i need to get someone out quick to get more pressure. Other than that, it'll be the survivors fault. Examples being if they body block with base BT, if they are quite literally everywhere I'm looking and no one else is around, if their teammates leave them on hook till stage 2, and if they BU+FTP a teammate after i down them (they are begging for it by using that combo)
Me and my duo teammate last night when he got mega-tunneled 8 games in a row: Nah bro it's not that common
0:05 I could've told you that without doing a study. According to everyone on Reddit and YT they get tunneled, camped, AND slugged EVERY single game. People just focus way too much on the few times it happens and ignore the 100s of times it doesn't.
Now you just need to do one for slugging to prove to people that it is even more rare than tunneling so people can finally stop bitching about that. So sick and tired of hearing people whine about having to sit on the ground for 4mins bleeding out but nobody will ready up at the start of game so you have to wait 1min EVERY SINGLE GAME but that's okay somehow? Will never understand why one time waster is okay but another is not.
Side note on the google doc. Hysterical to me the amount of people that claim it's "tunneling" if they body block and then the killer decides to chase them. This is just proof of why words don't mean shit anymore because everyone has their own definition. 324 people on that spreadsheet think it's tunneling if they purposely get in the way of the killer and then the killer goes after them because of it. THREE HUNDRED AND TWENTY FUCKING FOUR PEOPLE are that dumb. So at least 10% of this spreadsheet are entitled survivor mains.
Lol you said you played 50 games and I immediately said 5 games he had a tunneler and sure enough. I really REALLY want you to do slugging so I can see the results and watch people lose their minds when you say in 50 games you had 1 or 0 slugging killers.
5:50 I would say your skill would actually increase the odds of your teammates being tunneled. I know when I'm playing killer and I'm trying to win and I come across a good survivor I ignore them, so that means a lot more focus on the other three.
9:30 I could've filled out for Asia to add to that, because I started playing DBD while in Africa and had to play on Asia servers with 100ish ping, and played like that for ~2yrs. Didn't really notice any difference between the amount of tunneling/slugging/camping/toxicity. It's all the same compared to US East.
11:35 Counterpoint to that is, in my experience, that time period and a bit before is when everyone is playing as a SWF and sweating their asses off. The harder the matches for killer, the more likely they are to tunnel.
17:16 my biggest complaint with DBD. Playing both sides is awful because the amount of idiocy from survivors. I rage quit way more because of survivors than I do killer.
The biggest problem is people's false perception of the term "tunneling". Lots of survivors think that getting caught twice is tunneling which is false. Survivors often don't hide after getting unhooked, don't heal or try to use DS and other perks offensively and then wonder if they get hooked again. I almost never tunnel as killer and the amount of comments I get accusing me of tunneling is insane
After midnight it's sweaty tunnel hell lmao. Definitely more challenging to play during that time.
For every survivor main tunneled off hook, Vile Scott gains a month of age removed from his face.
Basically, players are spoilt. That's what I gather from this. A couple of bad games and they have a hissy fit. I have played since 2016, been camped and tunnelled countless times. I still play the game. I don't play it as often now for other reasons but camping and tunneling in my own experience were not nearly as common as many make it out to be.
If anything, I get more frustrated when team mates all ditch the gens to come save me. In the few games that I do get camped and tunnelled, I would be more happy if the team mates rushed the gens and all 3 escaped. The killer would have lost the game badly and my bad experience would not have been for nothing.
I don’t think the issue with tunneling is “how often it happens” the issue is it ruins the players experience. Fuck the data, fuck the statistics. No one wants to be tunneled out of a match and this is ESPECIALLY true to new players who don’t have access to the top tier anti-tunnel perks, and don’t give a shit to buy the characters and the grind the prestige levels.
It's impossible to eliminate it entirely. There's no use in complaining so much. BHVR has already done pretty much all they can to reasonably combat it.
I am a killer main and I aim for 12 hook games. I count my hook states per person so I know when someone is on death hook and can then avoid them until a reasonable amount of hook states are on other people. And yet I have had people in post game lobbies chastise me for tunneling even when they escaped... Survivors seems to think hooked twice in a row is a tunnel.
imo, people just focusing on the negatives. They remember the times they get tunneled, dont think about the times they dont
I mean idk i recently got my gf into playing the game and she gets tunneld often super aggresivly. When im getting chased accros the map and she gets unhooked the killer allways does a 180 and runs back. its really hard to bring new ppl into the game when they have to spectate all game cuz they get turbo tunneld
my friends complain a lot about being tunneled because they end up being hooked consecutively, but a lot of the time i wouldn't call that tunneling. they get unhooked and then go back to the gen they were previously on right away. that, and they try to take extra hits with borrowed time. and then to top it off, they don't run anti-tunnel perks or things that actively help in chase, they just run toolboxes and healing perks to try and outpace the killer. that works when rng gives the killer natural disadvantages, but i think anyone who's played a decent amount of killer knows where to go and what to do to keep up. in the end, gen progress is slowed to a halt, people get slugged and "tunneled" for not playing thoughtfully, and then killer players who are literally just doing what their role is designed to do are treated like shit.
i don't fault my friends for this because they're casual players, and they want to have fun but get punished for things they don't understand they're doing wrong. but dbd will always appeal to casual players, because that's what it needs to do to stay relevant. i think that it's just not a casual game and requires too much meta thinking for some people's gaming tastes.
I don't even consider survivor induced tunneling, tunelling. I consider it asking for it.
I did choose the lowest option for tunneling. I certainly don't think it's occurred 1 out of 5 matches.
I usually always try to "play nice," but if I go back to a hook and someone unhooks, and then the healthy survivor goes somewhere safe while the unhealthy survivor puts themselves into a disadvantageous position, I'm going for the unhealthy one lol
In my experience I can go hours without any real tunnelling but then I will log in one day and it will be back to back hard tunnelling. I don't think it happens in every match for anyone but it does happen more than it should imo
I’ve been kinda done with this game it’s almost almost dead to me as it’s changing so much to not be so fun anymore at least in my opinion, I’ve been slowly getting back into competitive shooters again.
In Asian playstyle there is no such word as 5-gens tunnel out. This is because there are differences in the level of awareness regarding the completiing-gens in international comparisons. Just recently, a player who is well-known as a commentator at tournaments in Japan answered the question "Why can't I escape in SoloQ?" by saying "It's because you're not trying to escape."
The gen completion is the survivor's attack to the killer, and the chase is defense from the killer. The survivor has HP called hook state and pallet, and survivors must end 5 gens AKA the killer's HP. That's the specific answer. If survivors don't understand this and only engage in "defense" such as chasing and flashlight saves, you will never be able to "attack" the killer. The killer can safely perform tunneling without being counterattacked.
The main reason why tunnels are recommended for killers is because survivors interpret attack and defense in the opposite way. Those who view completion gens as a tedious and pointless task will continue to be tunneled forever. And they blame it on the killer.
Your solo queue survivor mmr must not be tunnel central. When I solo queue, it's a solid 50/50 at best that I'll get tunneled with 0% hits from teammates, body blocks, or basically anything except MAYBE 1-2 unhooks. Let's pit 2k+ hours alongside a squad of 3/4 noobs, cuz that's totally fair and balanced. Just remove MMR if it isn't gonna work properly
Finally! Someone came around with some actual evidence and experiments to help put this silly excuse to bed! "Tunneling" has got to be one of the most annoying justifications someone can make for losing. Maybe dont go for these pro plays/strats you saw on youtube one time but cant even pull off yourself. Like when 3 survivors try saving someone and body blocking the hook and no ones on a genie.. Like what are you doing? Whyyyyy would I chase someone full hp when I can take the optimal option of finishing off who I already have wounded? Maybe dont heal right under the hook lol. Oh dang, now you are on your second hook in under 2 minutes and still none of you are on genies. Oh but im totally tunneling you. Right... You're just not as good as you think you are champ.
I get tunneled a lot. I also TRY to get tunneled as usually i have the most hours in my lobbies. Usually my death is my team's W so i don't mind all that much.
DEAR KILLERS don't let survs or anyone else tell you what to do, feel free to play however you want , you can tunnel slug camp as much as you want, don't be fooled, you are the one who plays and you are the one who decides
I use DS every game and mostly don’t get use unless I force it. If you want to know how many games you are actually getting tunneled, use DS/OTR and see how many times you get use out of the stun/endurance AND you didn’t purposely avoid working on a generator or doing a conspicuous action to get use out of the perk.
As a Freddy main, him being 5th tunneler is accurate
Going for the same person till they die is the game. That definition explains why every survivor thinks they are being tunneled when they are not. Because the definition lacks the condition "ignoring all others".
That definition makes it sound like I'm tunneling s1 if I hook s1 the s2, s3 and s4 and then hook s1 again.
That simple explanation explains alot about the mindset of survivor mains feeling tunneled all the time.
My thing is: if survivors are purposely taking a hit with off hook BT its not tunneling its you throwing yourself infront of a killer its only logical expect to get hit
It probably varies due to mmr, killers are more likely to tunnel at a lower mmr because it takes less skill and it might be the only way they will win depending on their build or certain killer they are playing. That being said it's definitely not *every game* like people claim, its more likely that its someone gets tunneled maybe 10/50 in lower mmr and 5/50 in higher mmr. (Still a 75% chance it won't be you though, even when it being someone else basically leads to it being a impossible to win game after)
So people should be saying I see a lot of tunneling instead, would make more sense statistically. Also play at degen hours so maybe it was more likely that lol
Something I never see anyone mention that is also a factor, is the cosmetic choices of survivors.
If you're wearing lighter or bright colors, the killer is going to see you more easily than the survivors that aren't wearing those colors. The charms are also cosmetics to consider as well.
When I look around to see where the unhooked survivor and their rescuer are, and David is hiding in a bush with dark colored clothes, and neon pink Feng is running away, I'm going to go after what caught my attention.
I also see a lot of survivors unhook too early. I often can't even leave the proximity before I get the notification and turn around to see 2 or more survivors.
After I hook someone, I B-line to a generator, but if I hear the unhook notification, I'm going to investigate.
Let me fecking leave the area for god's sake.
Obvious counter to your argument: you’re high mmr, people-legit according to you-tunnel more the worse they are because it is an easier playstyle. (As apposed to a better one) as a player who is better you go against the better players who work with good macro and working on their killer. The fact that you got 1/10 is insane
You take a protection hit with your BT? (Feature meant to prevent tunneling BEING USED OFFENSIVELY)
Yep, that's a hard tunnel for the rest of the match.
Lol, I've seen videos of people claiming to be tunneled, because they were the first survivor found, and the killer just committed to that chase...
Watching this after I get hard tunneled from the beginning of the match, killer only hooked me. Ignored every other player until I died, couldn't even touch a generator the entire match. I had anti tunnelling perk and it made no difference because even after using DS there was no distance made enough for me to do anything. Tunnelling is in almost every match, if it's not me then it's someone else. BHVR encourages tunnelling and even some killers abilities do like wesker.
I don’t like tunneling but if I’m at the beginning of a round and I find the first person only for two gens to pop I immediately have to go into damage control and kill 1 person as quickly as possible. Sorry for the first person but I need to win and eventually the other survivors realize it and stop doing gens which ironically feels like a fairer game.
I get tunneled so infrequently that I can't even remember the last time it happened to me, despite it being a rare occurrence. Even if I get tunneled, I don't give a shit. It's a vidya game. Queue for another match. Spectate your friends for a bit and relax. None of it means anything. Let it ride, people. Everything will be okay.
No, your complaints about the killer playing to win are not justified. The game is about 4 people trying not to get killed by a serial killer. Survivors play to win, so it's only fair for the killer to do it to.
Your fun is not my responsibility. Either get better at the game, or go play something else.
Bro i shit you not in most of my games, either me or my friend bets tunneled out immediately. First hooked? Yup theres an 80% chance the killer chases us off hook until they can hook us again then repeat it until we’re dead. Its always either me or her. If the killer has the choice between the unhooked and the rescuer, they usually go for the unhooked.
I think we’re taking all your tunneling killers for you, bud, maybe thats why youre not seeing it as much.
Not that common? Played my first and only game in 2 years yesterday morning. Got tunnelled out in 5 mins and turned the fucking game off again. I'm shocked I actually thought about coming back, nice to see despite the game has changed, the players haven't.
Like he said. Show the video.
If this is your mindset, you should've never considered returning. Its inevitable that at some point you will be tunnelled and I'm not sure why you'd play if you're this upset by it.
I think buying Zarina for her "Off the record" really helps, before I bought her I get tunneled from time to time but after buying her I no longer get tunneled! 😁