I grew up a Jehovah’s Witness and I want to say the hardest part of healing for me is grieving that I didn’t get to be a child and discover who I was or what I liked as a kid. I lived in constant terror that a small mistake would upset Jehovah enough to deem me worthy of destruction at Armageddon. Its taken years to grieve the child I didn’t get to be and work through the terror that still lives in my body. Grateful to EMDR and EFT and mind body healing modalities that have helped me process a lot of this. Thanks for the video it was very validating.
🫂 Our childhoods were stolen from us and sacrificed to the watchtower organization/the governing body. People aren't worshipping God. They are worshipping the group of old men running the show. My heart goes out to you. In a way, we got out and are now brothers and sisters in recovery. I'm so proud of you for still being here✨️
I’ve also noticed, at least in my local area, that there seems to be a pattern of shitty fathers among congregations. When I enter different friend groups there’s always at least one person with a verbally/emotionally abusive father. Certain disagreeable teachings aside, there’s many people who don’t practice what they preach in terms of the whole “how to be a good person” side of it and I still can’t believe the shit I’ve heard from those with authority.
There are SO many parallels between domestic violence and religious abuse! It’s the coercive control techniques, the gaslighting, etc. We talk about this a lot among survivors.
I ran from an abusive family into a cult I was so hungry for affection and basic attention. I needed to be acknowledged that I existed. And boy did they acknowledge me.
@@ellegee4683 it enrages me that all of the standard “recovery” programs do that hypocritical stuff. Like they’ll say: “we aren’t religiously affiliated” then they immediately after say “the Christian Lord’s Prayer” which the HYPOCRISY just makes me not trust anything else they have to say. Like…seriously? Does everyone else not see this?
Yup, same here. It took me 18 years to fully get out 😕 I’m glad to see a therapist talking about this. Not enough of them are educated about this serious and pervasive problem.
I was in Jim Jones' church when I was a kid, The People's Temple that later went to Guyana and he killed practically everyone in the church. When I hear people joke, "drank the kool aid" it freaks me out. My mom had some issues with Jim and we stopped going to his church by the time he moved to California.
JONESTOWN affected me deeply. Just saw a Tracy Parks video about her survival. S.F. left that church standing on Geary for years. It's now a post office. They should have RAZED that thing and made a park. They STILL are yet to finalize a MEMORIAL.
@@russrussel3947 You want to destroy one building then build a memorial. I'm glad the building is still used, let it be a positive now, people sending and getting packages, presents, checks. Why destroy it? You have severe issues and it's not about Jonestown.
@@eckankar7756 The Geary passed by it everyday on the way to work and was Creepy and Sad. Most people didn't even know what it was or WHY it was fenced off sitting there for decades, or if they did, they made jokes about the "drinking the kool aide" church. I thought you might understand.
Ex JW here. Forcing children to go to strangers homes and giving them publication's, taught we are the only true religion, taught that Armageddon could happen at any moment, if you aren't a good enough JW you won't get to live in a paradise with your family, made to feel great shame for asking questions, made to feel that self-pleasure was a huge sin, once you leave you are wordly and unworthy of close relationships with family that you left behind..I could go on and on..these are the highlights you mentioned and i just want to say thank you. Im 44 and I still don't have a handle on my internal compass. I left when i was 13. I was born into it. I used to have nightmares of Armageddon as a child and definitely thought the outside world was a scary evil place. Whew, lot's to unpack.
Same here, I'm 42 now. I left when I was 19 or 20. And I just recently find out that religious abuse is a thing. No idea who the hell I am. Thinking growing up I had to defend the cult when others where talking about like it's a weird thing. I wanna give you a big hug 🫂 🤗 and wish you well on your journey to recovery ♥️
From my own experience, it helps if you can just relax all those old, false standards, and just live your life as it is, without painting it with religious ideas. The more you can just move on, the better it will get, and the easier it becomes to just let go of all those false concepts.
Same here, was born into the jw cult so I had no choice, I left in my early 20s and will never go back. I finally feel free to be me. life has been challenging as I heal from and face my childhood trauma but I am healing thanks to God's grace.
You get to decide: -How you spend your time, -With whom you spend it, and -What makes you happy Thank you so much! These videos are so helpful to me on my healing journey
At this time, the most helpful thing for me is what this video is a part of: increasing recognition that spiritual abuse and religious trauma is a THING. In the years since my teens, I’ve gotten the message from my whole family that, “sure maybe your mom is a piece of work, but calling her teachings a cult is going too far.” And I’ve felt unworthy of calling myself a child abuse survivor because it was “only” emotional abuse, not hitting or SA. She crushed my spirit and I still struggle with low self-esteem, even self-hatred because she didn’t know or care that I was a sensitive kid and a tender age when she taught me to hate myself for being a sinner.
Majority of kids are rebellious and don’t take religion seriously. I think this is protective. The ones that really end up F cked up are the ones who take religion seriously and internalize that shit make it a foundation bc that’s what you are told to do. It’s harder to deprogram this people. So basically the obedient child gets to bear the worst adverse effects that religion leaves behind when the belief is done away with
Abuse is abuse is abuse. Water can be ice or vapor but all is still made of H20. You’re a victim of abuse; true, even if I’m a victim of all three. And I’m glad you and I survived and we both (along with all the other wonderful healing folks) get to spend some time with Patrick T and feel seen enough to help us continue the healing journey.
Ex-mormon here, I think this video may have unlocked the next level of my recovery. I was just discussing with my therapist how I have been almost stubbornly dismissive of the impact growing up Mormon (in Utah) has had on me because I've been out of it for so long. I had the double whammy of a toxic family system and being not just Mormon but completely isolated from the outside world due to growing up in a city that is only just shy of being 100% Mormon in a state that is also majority Mormon. It's like it was another lifetime. The more my therapist and I talk about it the more I have begun realize how much I still have to unpack and basically every point made here resonated with me, so much that I stopped what I was doing so I could take notes. Really helps me understand why I am struggling with these things even over a decade after leaving and 2+ years into therapy.
There is also a great podcast, UA-cam channel for Mormons who are doubting or feeling the problems caused by high demand Mormonism and ex Mormons called Mormon stories.
I've only been out of mormonism for 11 years but I am starting to realize how I've just been trying to ignore the mormonism still stuck inside. I've got to unpack with a professional lol
i grew up mormon in utah too. there are hardly any examples of non mormons to look to, you can be so closed off from reality. i was a sensitive kid. my dad always talked about the “signs of the times”. i started having panic attacks at age 11 bc I was so afraid of going to hell or burning at the second coming. i couldn’t talk to anyone about it, had to keep it bottled up. it’s no wonder to me i’ve had so many health problems as an adult. 10 years out and i’ve come a long way. a lot of depression and craving validation i’ll never get from my family. still noticing new things, like a constant ambient shame/guilt about almost everything, lol. mostly dealing with the grief and sadness that comes with being estranged, the odd one out, misunderstood, so many years spent confused and unsure. hoping my younger siblings like me and will trust me if they ever want to leave.
Former Mormon here too, toxic family system caused in part from the cult, it’s a cult. I grew up in and still live in Utah. Once you get more healed, you begin to see the cult like system that exists for those who still abide within its grasp. What’s difficult in Utah is the extreme fundamentalism fabric that gives no spectrum of navigation. The Mormon cult is so complex and comprehensive that you can’t really tell how to navigate social norms among both Mormons and ex Mormons. If that makes sense.
Dear Patrick... these are all topics I have studied in depth. You have done a very good job. One point: re "deconstructing"... this too, is a part of those attempting to "de-trans". Before you flippantly (or out of good intent) throw in a highly charged global situation ("2015-2023ff" transgender issues). Big faux pas (should have left that out until you have a broader understanding vs the given "narratives".*... Check out *"de-transitioning panels*) just to get started. To date... AT LEAST 7 kids *trans clinics in Europe have been SHUT DOWN*. Inside whistle blowers... and those who had surgeries going back for support being given the COLD SHOULDER. The community who surrounded them, made them not feel alone simply turning their backs to them... *SHUNNING. .... The CULT is the IDEALS and NARRATIVES being wrongly and quickly sold to troubled youth - not in the long-term support... but turning over numbers. When big corporations and big banksters are involve... you really got to stand back and take a look at the whole of what is really going on. WHEN... tell me WHEN do huge multinational corporations really care about us... the masses? They don't... #FollowTheMoney it's about money, power... and in this case... creating more disruption, and ultimately setting the stage for trans-HUMANISM... aka, the ultimate control (end) of humanity / free will! SEE: WHITNEY WEBB on Trans-gender/trans-humanism... Klaus Schwab, The Great Reset, the 4th Industrial Revolution, etc. Also... *James Corbet*... the Corbet Report... just for starters. Keep up the good work! Try not to jump into any topic that has had 24/7 corporate media cycle attention
@@AgeismGoesBothWays I really thought Leah Remini's series would jumpstart something. It was really well done. Disappointing that we don't see more coverage
My entire family used religion to justify beating. If it wasn't there way it wasn't His way. If it's out of line in their eyes let's whip her.. I can't wait to hear the video. You might not see this comment but the work you do is helping so many
@@ellegee4683I know that feeling. I got beaten into confessing to something I didn’t actually do because my parents didn’t believe me to be telling “THE TRUTH”. I was six. Who actually thinks torturing a six year child is ok?
Thank you for sharing this. I was raised in an extremely controlling Christian Cult in Texas. My childhood was full of isolation, abuse and neglect. At 52 years old, I’m still dealing with the aftermath but I am working with an excellent therapist and I’m learning to love myself for the first time in my life.
Dad is so far into the Catholic Church it is like a cult, couldn't warch the Smurfs as a kid because they were told it was Satanic. 🙄 ugh. This video was spot on.
Same! I wasnt permitted to watch Smurfs either, or many things. I wasnt permitted to be a kid during my timeline with my generation. I wasnt permitted to be a kid. Physical, emotional, and mental abused all around extreme religious fanaticism. I think there must be a specific name for those of us who were abused children during the weird height of fundamentalism in the 80s/90s. Very weird abuse that goes unnoticed by the appearance of "wholesomeness".
Holyshit I forgot all about the Smurfs. Probably because I was never allowed to watch them either.. i remember my mom saying the cat Azrael and gargamel the bad guy were names of evil spirits or some garbage like that. There was actually a lot of stuff it wasn't allowed to watch
Spot on. I had nightmares as a kid about hell, and now consider that to be child abuse. Working with women in a 12 step program is so much smoother when there is no fundamental religious background. Give me someone with no higher power any day! What a process of undoing, spiritual trauma is. Thank God for those deconstructing and reconstructing in public, now. There is community there, too.
I've often wondered why religious people can't see the hypocrisy of harassing other people being bad, and abusive, but think they are good people for "spreading the word." If the Word was that good, people wouldn't need to be bullied and chased down to have it beaten into their heads.
@@maryamdiao1509 I hope you are doing well, now. Being trapped in an oppressive, fear based system feels very overwhelming and futile. But then we are set free (indeed) ;) It does get better and better over time, and freedom does eventually come.
I value your work so much. Thank you Patrick. You're the first person who provided me with the warmth, connection and understanding I'd been seeking my whole life. Words fail to express my gratitude to you.
wow... great support! FYI: CHECK--> Healing the trauma/feelings of C-PTSD is absolutely possible... FAST & EFFECTIVE!! (Every therapist needs to learn this... much better than EMDR, etc. Find *ART (Accelerated Resolution Therapy)* & *see Studies comparison of ART* TO EMDR & Brainspotting videos below. ART explain/demo: ua-cam.com/video/XZQbo2aoQmg/v-deo.html Science backed: ua-cam.com/video/JxFPwKSUePk/v-deo.html
I grew up in a Hispanic Pentecostal Church (a denomination of Christianity) that also happened to be ran by my uncle & aunt :) so almost the entire church was my family, the amount of judgment I received growing up and even now, is insane & hypocritical. I’m very excited to watch this video and feel validated, seen and heard! Thank you Patrick for all that you do! Your content is very healing for all of us 🫶🏽🤍🥹 Update after watching!!! Wow, I was shook because I knew my religious upbringing caused a lot of emotional turmoil internally but every time you told us to really think about how the family and the fundamental lens affected us it really brought everything into perspective. Everything you said was beyond validating and I really appreciate you starting everything because I’ve had no one in my life to validate that yes I’m fact it was my family AND the strict fundamental ideas that my church had that affected my mental health and still affect me! I’m still learning it’s okay to be me and I’m not a demon or going to hell just because I view things completely differently. It’s really sad being ostracized from not only your family but your “made up” family too is such a lonely path and really makes you doubt your entire existence, videos like yours are really what allow peoples inner child to feel seen, heard & validated. I’m really happy I’ve been able to see your content and I’m excited to start posting videos of my own story of self love and healing after leaving the church and starting my spiritual journey! 🤍🤍🤍🤍🤍 Thank you all for the likes and comments, I’m sorry if you’ve gone through similar trauma and if you want to share your story below like others have already, I think it would offer a beautiful way for us all to feel seen & heard 🫶🏽
Me too and I’m gay. My church protected and continues to protects the family member who SA’d me. Thankfully I have worked past all of this, but yeah the Pentecostal church is a cult. They tell us we are different than the rest of the world and various other rules. They ask people to fast and stay in church long hours, so we’re sleep deprived and not functioning on a healthy life with hobbies. It was just church 24/7.
I grew up adjacent to oneness pentecostalism and from my vantage point, it was *awful*. We had loads of HPC churches around too and it just seemed to crush children's spirits. I'm sorry you grew up in that. Damn. 💜
@@catie5939 yeah years after leaving the church I’ve been able to see how it literally suppressed our freedom of expression in so many ways and it’s very traumatizing overall, it’s quite sad since it’s supposed to be a place of love but it’s quite the opposite. I appreciate your kindness :)
I grew up in fundamentalist Mormonism and nearly all of these points hit home. The hardest one of all is that feeling of abandoning brothers and sisters who are still trapped in that environment and even my sisters are being married off now to much older church men as polygamous wives and how they've been groomed into it. It sickens me to my stomach to have to witness. 😞💔
I feel your pain, leaving siblings behind hurts. Especially when you were raised to be so family focused. My heart goes out to you. Still it's good we got out to pave a pathway that can look like an alternate option for them when and if they are open to it.
As a exjw myself, I can see now how you are actually taught narcissistic traits, 2 years in therapy, amazing therapist, amazing difference in my life. Much love to you all!
@@limes-x6l im sorry but most christians that i have met are very hateful, not just the prophets like u said. i grew up in a christian household so i know
*There's no bigotry like leftist tolerance.* Never felt more hate and judgment than from those who scream "tolerance" the loudest. I've been around fundamentalist, but never experience the type of verbal and emotional abuse coming from my fellow liberal teachers, peers, and community. I had to move to a different city to finally get away from the regular abuse. Every side has extremism on each end.
@@sugarspice7768 Yeah, Kamala Harris just offered Zimbabwe $60 Million Dollars so that they institute an LGBQT policy....when folks on Maui are being offered a one-time $700 dollars❗❗❗❗And the government wants to take their Land. ❗❗❗❗
This issue is so prevalent and not talked about it enough. Spiritual abuse is so rampant and goes under the radar. There are a lot of narcissistic leaders and parishioners in religious settings that go under the radar in the name of "forgiveness" etc. Honestly doubly traumatic with an extra layer of guilt and shame. ❤.
Yes! The best thing a psychologist told me is that I didn't have to forgive my father, I needed to forgive myself because it wasn't my fault. That was so healing. I was told for so long that it was my fault or that I Must forgive him.
That said, I would argue that this video doesn’t go FAR enough. I hope future Mental health professionals have the courage to face the fact that the BELIEFS themselves of Christian Fundamentalist/Evangelicals (specifically the belief in original sin) are in/of itself the definition of abusive. To teach a CHILD that they are NOT okay as they are is deeply wrong and can lead to a life corroded by toxic shame. Not to mention the belief described as “Complementarianism” where they teach us to believe that women need a man to pair with to ‘complete’ the woman and make her whole. It’s all so toxic. But those 2 beliefs alone will seriously screw a person up for life…
I agree, I still think it's great that Patrick covers these topics but you make very good points. My own adoptive family (well, grandmother mostly) tried to instill a belief in me that I wasn't an 'OK person,' but luckily I didn't fully internalise that. I'm still angry and sad for my child-self who just wanted to be accepted that they had that attitude, among a few other things, though.
Agree, Patrick left an open back door for religions to sneak out of. I challenge Patrick to name five religions that don't believe they are The Truth/The Path/The Chosen and everyone else is living in ignorance (and usually going to hell/dead at Armageddon/not going up in the rapture/etc.)
Absolutely. I grew up Catholic and, as a child, couldn’t comprehend why I had to go to ‘Confession’ and tell my 8-year-old ‘sins’ to some priest behind a screen. Just the design of the confessional tells a child that something they presumably did was ‘bad’ or ‘evil’ and it must be confessed in a tiny box of a space, hidden away, to a strange man the child doesn’t know. Before a child has a distinct sense of self, they are taught that they are inherently flawed and must be saved by this mysterious, patriarchal organization. That, coupled with emotional abuse and neglect, was enough to turn me off from religion for life. I’d argue that any organised religion is or has the capacity to become a cult, especially when its rituals are designed to evoke shame and guilt. Before my first confession, I asked my mother what to say to the priest. She told me to “Tell the priest that you were fresh to your mother.” There you go! Abuse with a ‘spiritual’ flourish!
Thank you for mentioning mormonism as an example of a cult. I was raised mormon and as a highly sensitive, undiagnosed autistic female (I was diagnosed at age 36), growing up in this family and religious environment really messed me up, for lack of a better way of phrasing that. And for so long the messaging I received was that I was the one with the problem. And even now, my parents are unable to see how anything to do with my upbringing would have caused me to have so many struggles with mental health - again, “I’m the one with the problem”. This video is so incredibly validating and I thank you for addressing this topic. 🙏🙏
Me too love. Highly sensitive, autistic, raised LDS. They really dug some holes in our inner power didn't they? I'm glad we were strong enough to see past the lies and gaslighting to know the problem was the church all along. It was never us. I lived in California with a diverse popularity (not super Mormon at all) so I grew up with a lot of cognitive dissonance, stemming from having to pretend to believe at church in something that felt so wrong compared to the outside world. At school I would tell no one about being mormon bc I was embarrassed. I knew there was something wrong with us bc people would ask "isn't that a cult?" when I used to share. Just made me feel more like there was something wrong with me, it was coming from both sides lol. I finally left at 19, 29 now and still reeling from mit all. How old were you when you left?
CHECK--> Healing the trauma/feelings of C-PTSD is absolutely possible... FAST & EFFECTIVE!! (Every therapist needs to learn this... much better than EMDR, etc. Find *ART (Accelerated Resolution Therapy)* & *see Studies comparison of ART* TO EMDR & Brainspotting videos below. ART explain/demo: ua-cam.com/video/XZQbo2aoQmg/v-deo.html Science backed: ua-cam.com/video/JxFPwKSUePk/v-deo.html
I completely relate! 28 and I suspect ADHD and autistic (but undiagnosed for now) here! The cocktail of religious trauma, a narcissistic father, a neglectful mom and being unable to escape it because I live in Utah surrounded by LDS culture and not fitting in... It's suffocating! I wish you the best in your journey to take your life back!
I wonder how many converts have a trauma background...I was indoctrinated as an adult into the JW cult but was raised in a fundamentalist Baptist church....no cards/dancing/drinking booze etc yet saw the "rules" broken over & over in my childhood home...in fact, I do not remember seeing any of them obeyed lol Our home was chaos & frightful to the point where I tued most of it out!! so I believe it groomed me fo fall prey to similar fear. .obey or be rejected/abandone/dead... in a sense
I was indoctrinated at a very early age by JW- skewed my childhood into adulthood even though I never was a member formally, still have a hard time enjoying Holidays or birthdays at 62-and I was tortured for years thinking Jehovah was going to strike me dead. Set me up for years going from one abusive "religious ideology" to another until I realized I cannot be in any formal religious group...that was my salvation!
I had an interesting conversation with my mom recently. I was sexually abused by my father during religious homeschooling and the church shielded him and disciplined me for speaking out. My mom tried to speak up for me, but when I folded under the pressure she stopped. The issue was dropped and the church never censored him. Over 20 years later we discussed this. She said that she was facing serious pressures too, that the people she trusted were telling her to raise her child in this way, and she didn’t have the confidence to go against them. I’m working on forgiving her, because I know what she says is true. She DID fail me, but she was also a young mother in a terrible situation with no good guidebook for what to do in this situation. We’re all human. And as terrible as it was, my own strength a couple years later to bring to cops down on that church and stand up to my father gave her the courage to do many things she never had. Put in another situation years later as a youth leader where adult men were trying to silence accusations of sexual abuse by a teenage girl, she stood by her side loudly and stubbornly. It’s that that’s helping me forgive her. We can’t change the past, only learn from it.
Grew up in a Pentecostal setting. Things were very black and white. It took me some time to extricate myself from this religious system. Thanks so much for speaking about this topic.
After leaving the Jehovah's witnesses I began to realize that we had been conditioned to notice any setback in life as proof that life outside the religion was terrible and ruled by Satan. On the one hand they would tell us "if you leave and find yourself successful that is Satan tricking you into thinking he is an angel of light." But then on the other hand they would tell us that if we left we would become dejected, full of guilt, unhappy in everything. So no matter what it makes you think maybe it's true when normal life happens. Interestingly while in the religion if you were successful it was thanks to God, and if you became depressed or had bad things happen it was either a trial to endure or just time and unforseen events. This struck me how the exact same life events were assigned different causes or meaning based on if you were in the religion or out of the religion. I've had to learn that much of the trauma and stress felt after leaving is a direct result of the abusive shunning practices and those conditioned responses.
I suffered from debilitating panic attacks because my mother went to the extreme with her catholicism. I was constantly warned about being possessed by the devil if I was bad and how every little bump in the night could be the supernatural. It definitly was not healthy, and if anything extremely morbid and it took me years to recover from those panic attacks. I had no safe parent that wpuld correct the evil that my mother was opposing on me. I am glad you brought that up in this video. The compliant partner who allows this to happen and how they are just as guilty for doing nothing to keep their children safe.
Omg. Exactly. You hit the nail on the head. I was raised “ Pentecostal “ and the circus never ended. Including saying every other person who didn’t believe the same was destined to hell. My parents telling me everyone who didn’t believe in babbling in the “ spirit “ were “ lukewarm “ and would be spewed out to eternal damnation. I believe it takes a strong mind to go thru this and out the other side and see it is all a lie.💯
There were a couple things you touched on re: cult tactics/practices that I'd like to elaborate. 1. Confession. This is essential in every cult. (In ours we even had to write lists.) But the perceived sin is not what they want from you. Whatever you present, they'll tell you "That's not enough. You're holding back." So you go and revise, and revise, and revise, until you're making false confessions because you can't come up with anything else. That's what they want. They want compliance at all costs, to the point you question your reality, or buy into the lies of what you said you did. 2. Bye bye, parents: I was a teen, and the first thing I was told in the door was how horrible my parents were for sending me there. (The only truth they ever told.) The entire program presented as "treating" us for drug abuse and a toxic childhood, but in reality it was weaponizing our pasts, to destroy any remaining emotional attachment to our parents. (And most of us were already halfway there, as we were all tr@fficked by our own parents: Kidnapped by a bounty hunter our parents hired, or brought there on false pretenses. "It's just a tour.") Cults will RIP you from your family, through coercion, physically violent separation, or both. "We're your family now." Really great vid. Cults are complicated to describe to folks who haven't endured it. It's impossible to understand for those lucky enough never to be in one. That's by design. My parents didn't believe me at all until a few books came out. Your breakdown hit all the important points.
Thank you so much for this video. Growing up as a JW with a narcissistic father was really the cherries on top of a confusing and mind altering childhood. My heart goes out to all who are struggling with the aftermath of this kind of double tragedy. These videos really make me feel like I am not alone and that we have a voice. ❤
I grew up in a region of the United States in which this kind of abuse overtakes entire towns to this day. It was terribly unsettling and in many ways contributed to robbing me of my childhood.
I was raised a spiritual group who followed an Indian Avatar guru. The holier than thou teachings and strict moral beliefs, along with two narcissistic parents who thrived on an image of a fabulous family, created such a terror of anything outside of perfect behavior at all times. It’s taken me decades to try to be OK in my own skin and have gray areas and not be shamed all the time. Learning about CPTSD is the first time I don’t feel crazy, and Patrick, you are doing such amazing work for people like me. Can’t wait to see this talk.
I come from a polar opposite of what you experienced. Sunday school was free babysitting. My parents were very opposed to church. I found people that noticed me and were kind. I drifted through several churches because I took what was available to a child. I ended up in the Catholic Church as an adult but didn't join because some beliefs didn't meld with what I grew up with. I know that people confide in you which is wonderful and healing. I didn't realize how lucky I was to not have a negative experience.
@@ryokomusouka Mormon Stories podcast and website has resources and a directory of counselors who will get it. I’m trying to find a counselor too now who understands the deep Mormonism issues that are so hard to shake. Wish you the best.
@@ryokomusouka Same here! I've had several different therapists over the years - the first was worse than useless - just sat there, recording me, asked a question and gave no responses. It's layers upon layers, and you really need something to help kick start the process - knowing where to start is such a big thing.
I was raised Shiny Happy People style by a wannabe Quiverfull set of parents except I ended up and only child. There was so much resentment over my solitary existence on top of the religious and nuclear family abuse. Also, your interpretation of the Quiverfull mentality is spot on
I was a member of a small pentecostal/nondenominational cult growing up. It was only 4 families, including mine. It really stunted my social and emotional growth to the point that joining a megachurch later seemed like such a modern and "cool" alternative. I eventually came to my own conclusions about religion and decided I didn't want any part of it anymore, though to each their own.
I can't thank you enough for making a video on this. It's so important, more than ever. I grew up in a fundamentalist evangelical homeschooling environment. There are so few protections for kids like me, especially for girls against misogynistic attitudes about their capabilities or with purity culture's horrible effects. Add inherited family trauma to a fundie system that outright discouraged emotions or expressing feelings to anyone (because emotions were gateways to sin), and then no ability to have friends outside of the system because of strict black-and-white rules. Not to mention, leaving the home wasn't an option. I wasn't the only one I knew in that situation. Many of my formerly fundie friends have turned away from any religion, and it's no coincidence.
Same and yeah. My sister is still using our old IBLP crap for her kids. It's horrible. I'm still dealing with the religious trauma of that. Politics even more so. 😓
I was raised in an evangelical/pentecostal religion. It took away my individuality, freedom of expression , and self esteem. I was expected to be a sheep. The congregation was called our pastors flock. It all seemed of the norm until middle school. I was home schooled on and off, kept from other kids who weren't in the church. It made me gave behavioral issues in which I was grounded for and had the elders in the church rebuke the devil from my body. They convinced my family that we had a evil spirit oppression. I didn't realize how much these actions affected me in adult life even after being away from Christianity for 20 something years!!! Thank you for explaining this. Hopefully I can use it to further process my pent up emotions. 🙌🥰✨️
Mormon here. As kids we were taught if you don't pay tithing you burn to death at the Second coming. That and other teachings left me a terrified wreck until I finally left the church in my forties.
The Free Fall is so frightening. I am a grown-ass adult, a middle-aged one at that, and I have no idea what is good, bad, wrong, right, true or a lie. I have absolutely no idea who I am, what I want, or who I am supposed to be. In short, I have no idea what is real. At all. Thank you, Jehovah's Witnesses, for stealing all of this from me, but making damn sure I know that any kind of escape from this hell (temporary or permanent) is an unforgivable sin and that I (and my children, lest we forget the horrible scripture that says the sins of the father (or mother) shall be laid upon the children) will surely die in Armageddon, whether I believe in it or not.
A lot of my native american family call themselves recovering from various denominations of Christianity. Some were survivors of Indian schools in USA and residential schools in Canada. My Mexican families had a different experience, that of being at the bottom of the casta system in the Spanish Empire, then the victims of violent groups. When cultic behaviour is combined with racism and an agenda to forcibly remove people from their families and their land, there is another dimension of trauma, a third toxic system comprising the government and churches, both of which reflected the social attitudes of that era. It has been interesting following the journeys of my people especially over the past two years. The emphasis is on finding yourself as a person and as a member of a tribe , and it has a spiritual basis. By that I mean there are certain behaviours that are recommended by elders and historical people to help get along with others in a tribe without losing your individual dignity and self worth. So it is anti- cultic in a way.
I am sorry that happened to your family. I heard about those residential schools in Canada for indigenous children to brainwash them out of native American ways. Some didn't survive them and disappeared. The same was going on in Australia with aborigine children especially if they didn't have a father or were half aborigine and half white. They were taken away to be put in orphanages or adopted by white families. This was depicted in the film The Rabbit Proof Fence where a group of girls escaped back to their families and wandered for days in the outback.
This was an excellent video and helped me understand why religious abuse mixed with toxic family dynamics is so insidious and hard to heal from. (I no longer have to feel ashamed about that.)
My mother became obsessed with the Catholic Church and I ended up being groomed by a Priest. So I had abuse from my mother insisting I interact with the church and a Priest grooming me under her nose and I could not tell anyone 😢 This is so true, thankyou, I am becoming more independent now
I’m sorry you went through that. I wish it never happened. It’s so sinister when someone who is supposed to represent God ends up doing the complete opposite. I grew up in a ministry family where there was a lot of spiritually abusive behavior in order to protect my parents image on the mission field. A book that helped a lot was the subtle power of spiritual abuse by David Johnson. It goes through specific spiritually abusive tactics that are often used to destroy people’s souls.
So you’re being led astray by evil spirits too and are blinded lol 😅 because thats what they call it when you start to see things clearly and are not letting yourself be controlled, manipulated or abused anymore. 😂
My dad thinks I worship the devil just because I'm not religious and choose not to baptize my daughter🫠 He is such a narcissist, he cannot see how much I've matured and how my view of life changed for the best.
This shit still gets to me sometimes, especially since my father has told the rest of the family to believe that I'm being brainwashed by evil influences, like he absolutely cannot deal with my own agency so badly that he has to pretend I have none.
As a woman who has survived patriarchal abuse and sexual abuse through a cult I don’t think this was an appropriate time for you to comment. You could’ve commented in the community tab. I feel like you waiting to address that under this video seems like you are just waiting on the next subject and feel the need to take up this space. As someone who feels this subject rarely gets talked about in day to day conversation, this is a much needed safe space and I feel it shows your lack of sensitivity and understanding of how difficult this dynamic is. I am not saying you can’t talk about what you want to, just maybe don’t make a cult video about women because all genders are affected by this gross misuse of power and sexual abuse can come from it (to all genders) and many Christian cults (especially) are patriarchal. Which is obvious to people who have been in a cult and left, whereas may not be obvious to someone who has not.
@@GrannyLinnA lot of things are. Sexually harassment comes out of purity culture. You leave a religion to find freedom but find religious attitudes all around you in the secular world. The calendar revolves around Christian festivals which are based on pagan calendars. You are expected to be selfless and help people over helping yourself. This was enforced on us at inter volunteer large events where we get told the story of a table of food bymut all the spoons had long handles so people had to feed each other with them. I know someone who takes this to extremes as he showers people with food and presents until he runs out of money and then goes to their homes for food. Or he never has a bag with him so asks companions to carry what he bought in their bag. He doesn't own an umbrella either so expects other people to share it with him. So he then goes the other way because he didn't buy things for himself or made sure he had them on him. Or he would buy friends food to eat when out with them without asking them first. So there would be the surprise panini or cup cake when you don't feel like eating (I rarely do at rock concerts or on the outward leg of a journey) but then he doesn't have enough money for a bottle of water or cup of coffee for himself. He was in the JWs for a while but never fully deconstructed. I have said no to second dates after joining a dating agency but was told I still had to go through with them. I kicked up a fuss and left the dating agency after asking why the men can not ask for a second date. This is because most people were religious a hundred years ago and forced to attend church as they was nothing else to do on Sundays without television or places of entertainment and shops open. So when they left religion they took the old attitudes with them into secular organisations. Or they had religion forced on them in state schools which was and still is in many European countries.
I grew up in a mixed marriage, reform Jewish. However, I got sucked into charismatic churches/fundamentalism throughout my twenties. I've been doing a lot of deep digging on this.
Thank you. I grew up /liberal/ Lutheran and am now a pastor in the same church. I didn't face an abusive environment but I think I wasn't always encouraged to set boundaries for myself. Now that I lead a congregation I feel it's an important duty to be aware of how the teachings can be used and to create a safe environment especially for those who don't have it at home.
How do you sleep at night being a Legacy of Martin Luther's Antisemitic Pamphlet that helped promote and ignite the Holocaust? How do you square your Christian Antisemitism?👀🚸🧸💑💌
That is very rare in churches even in 'liberal' ones where you face a different set of expectations than in evangelical churches but they are still restrictive and demanding expectations nonetheless. I have a Facebook friend who left fundamentalism for the UU denomination and finding other pressures there. So she left that too.
@@lemsip207 it's always a balance, I think, between individualism and collectivist expectations. I do believe having some communal values is good but I also think that needs to be paired with a true openness for questions and feelings outside of the group thinking.
@martah5369 I agree, but it's difficult to get that balance right especially with people expecting all or nothing from you. I will see a film at the cinema that is just OK to me or that I want to see or I don't mind seeing it again with a friend but will draw the line over a film I find distasteful or frightening. Then see the more obscure film I really want to see on my own. That's how I saw Napoleon Dynamite and A Beautiful Day in the Neighbourhood. It's about meeting people halfway or even better coming up with a win-win solution.
@@lemsip207 in my experience, expectations and pressure will usually come more from some people than others, and sometimes also from yourself. A community, religious or not, should be mostly safe but few places will be 100% free from all or nothing thinking.
We were a “looks good on paper” family, and church played a large role in that. Not exactly religious abuse for me, but more that the good things in the religion got used as shame tools. I believe in much of the same doctrine, and in many ways even more than when I grew up, but I struggle to attend because it triggers my PTSD from all the childhood trauma. Still trying to untangle the good from the bad.
my dad started following a Hindu guru and raised me to think of the guru as God. Had me and my siblings convinced we had made a pact with God before we were born and only our dad could talk to Him. It was messed up. We’re all severely damaged. I started blogging/podcasting about the experience but it’s hard to make sense of it. These videos are healing. Thank you.
I hear a lot of white American buddhists also claiming their belief system is not a religion and is free from all this stuff. In the meantime, there is a temple in my town run by two buddhist nuns who have no rights whatsoever, cannot even purchase groceries at the local grocery store without an "approved list," and as women, are never going to be outside the "headship" of a male monk.
I really dig the point you made that nobody is watching me. And that I don't need anyone's permission to make my own decisions. I'd love it if you made a full video just about healing sexuality. Growing up I never had a chance to go through what I think was a normal growth and exploration phase and I currently feel kind of stuck and helpless in that old mindset of sexuality being bad and shameful but secretly inside desperately wanting a sexual connection with someone else. And I guess I have an idea of how I can get that for myself right now but there has been an immense inner struggle/debate over it and feeling like going through with my idea would be catastrophic (instead of just maybe being good or bad or a learning experience), and also feeling like I do need someone to give me permission and tell me it's ok. Then theres the past sexual experiences I have had where I didn't really know how to navigate them properly and ended up hurting the other person and I have a hard time separating that experience where I should feel guilty and learn from my mistakes from being told as a young man that I'm a bad person and going to hell just for trying to be sexual of having sexual feelings at all. I'm really angry that just being allowed to be was taken away from me when I needed it the most.
Im a survivor. And tbh i never knew this type of stuff could damage people so deeply. This video makes me feel extremely validated because i have experienced every single thing you mentioned here. Im a hispanic that grew up in christian churches for my whole life until i moved from my mothers house. Theres something about the hispanics man…. They take it to the next level. Its traumatizing. Ill share this memory i have from one of the first churches me my mom and Sister attended to. The Church Name is “El Sendero De La Cruz” in Hato Rey Puerto Rico 🇵🇷 Its a memory that marked my life forever. Its scared me. So, i was really young, at the most 11 maybe 12 i just remember being a child. The church had the main floor where the service would take place, and then it had a basement for like weeding or if the top got too full, you could go downstairs too. This one time they had like a kids camp going on, and the ONLY thing i can remember about it was that they created this tunnel like thing, at the basement, out of cardboard boxes and plastic. They had red lights and smoke coming from the very inside of the tunnel. The whole point was for us kids to go thru it like crawling on our knees, and essentially the tunnel was a tunnel thru hell. They had people screaming on the inside, people crying out loud like they were suffering. Showing you what it would be like if you actually got sent to hell. That is mental abuse to kids. Im 28 years old now and i cant forget that moment in life. Its scarred me so much and i know thats when my fear of going to hell became a real thing. An 11 year old kid with fear of going to hell and burning alive in a sea of lava with the souls of the people who had been dammed to just live there forever….. Now that im an adult, man… that was some messed up and evil shit they did to us. And they knew exactly what they were doing…. If you brainwash them and traumatize them while they are young and undeveloped, probabilities are that they will control you for the rest of your life because it can be very hard to break away from stuff like this, specially when you are a kid and you abide by the rules that others make for you. Hoping that one day i can get proper help and maybe leave all of the pain, confusion, fear and humiliation that comes along with it. Live a normal life… Ps. I had equally traumatic experiences at other churches that we attended to… but at that point i was older, its the fact that they did that to us when we were young kids that i think should be highlighted. Hope yall all have a nice day and keep strong!
Anger and rage followed me for a long time after leaving my situation but it does get better after finding finally “ normalcy” in the regular world. Patrick is so right it’s a great joy to be truly free eventually, worth the difficult journey ❤️❣️Great words of wisdom here🥰
In the 90's I was sucked into the ICOC, left, and went back. I am out for good but live with the guilt that I raised my kids in that environment. Thank you so much for putting this out. I hope that someone who has not been sucked into the painful reality of a controlling, abusive, subversive will watch this before they go down that path.
The ICOC destroyed my already vulnerable and mentally unhealthy parents. They joined in the mid 90s and got shunned from the group around 2001. The cult itself and the rejection from the cult really made them miserable and I had to suffer from being raised by them. I’m glad you got out and are dealing with its impact. I rarely ever see ex-ICOC people!
Thank you Patrick soo much for putting out this video. I was raised in a third generation Jehovah's witness family. A friend of the family, a forty year old man, groomed and molested me from ages 7 to 9, everything out in the open, because he took his kids to the meetings he was trusted. Child abuse is a serious problem that exists within this cult, a very large cult of 8 million. Thank you for every one of you that has shared your story here, it's very brave of you all. I feel a little less alone.
Thank you for this video you hit everything spot on. It was so difficult being raised as a Jehovah’s Witness. I’m recovering and finding my own way in life it feels good to be out but I feel so lonely sometimes. But hearing the comments of so many former witnesses helps me not feel so alone.
I was relieved to see that my phases of deconstruction are normal according to the phases you described. Thank you for taking the time and care to put this together, Patrick!
my biggest trauma comes from me being trans in a fundamental system. its really confusing because I know I was loved, but because of the dogma I wasn't loved or supported in the way that I needed to be and it was incredibly isolating. I couldn't even tell people what I was experiencing because it wasn't safe to do so. at best I would have gotten branded as someone to stay away from. at worst I could have been sent to conversion therapy or biblical counseling.
I definitely see you. Gender is different from sexuality, and I had a similar experience. Our pastor routinely addressed parents to look for signs of homosexuality and to immediately bring us to them so they could "help us before it was too late" 🏳️🌈🏳️⚧️❤️
Yes being trans in a fundamentalists cult was so damaging to me too. First of all I didn't even know words to label how I felt because I didn't even know other people felt like me. I just knew that the religion taught it was wrong to be a different gender than the one assigned at birth. And they went on and on about not dressing like the opposite sex. So I knew how I felt was not allowed and that they fully believed people like be did not deserve to exist. It was terrible. As I got older and started hearing more terms the only time anyone talked about trans people it was horrible and I thought I must be some kind of monster because I felt the way I did. It took me 38 years to come out of the closet and I'm still trying to heal all the damage done do I can love and accept myself as the wonderful person I always have been but wasn't allowed to be.
@@suzannep I feel a lot of this is also hypocritical, because there's a lot of religious people who also say "God doesn't make mistakes." I am an atheist, LGBTQ ally and hate that people will use religion to hide their own prejudices, when said religion often says very little or nothing about same sex relationships or not conforming to the socially accepted confines of your assigned gender.
@@ShintogaDeathAngelI agree wholeheartedly because when my mother found out I was trans she used that on me and deep down it just felt like a way to dismiss my feelings by saying if god is never wrong and I question something by god (such as my gender identity) then clearly I must be wrong. It’s just another way to gaslight people who fall outside their cookie cutter world view that they are always the issue
I spent many years in a fundamental pentecostal church, I've recently realised that the job I do (and have done for over 30 years) has been from a belief that God put me there so He could use me. It is a job that sees a lot of abuse (both in those I care for and towards me - I work in an acute mental health and addiction setting). As I have had therapy I have learnt that I don't deserve to be treated like that but that I can still choose it if I want to. The conflict is difficult (both internally and externally). Working through the things I denied myself because I thought I had to is painful. I have also found more acceptance and love from those not in the church than those in it, and I find that very sad
Some people join cults or coercive religious groups to escape their toxic family of origin that does not a religious basis to it. Essentially they go from a small abusive system to an ever bigger one. .
Incredibly validating. Thank you.i might share this with my therapist. Is that appropriate? I grew up Mormon and really tried for 20 years as an adult to be the perfect wife and mother and member. I developed perfectionism that engulfed my whole life and nearly killed me.
Was raised in the Latter Day Saint/Mormon religion, it brings me comfort that I am not alone. I would not trade my experiences, I love my life. The memories are hard to revisit, and painful to sit with and dwell on still. Thank you Patrick.
The hardest part for me was learning to survive as an individual without depending on a community. The separation was a mourning. I used to consider the religious community as one big family, something I still miss, I can't compensate for this need. For 20 years of my life I never had the opportunity to develop as an individual, I structured my being around living like a cog in a great machine. My personality was so crushed that I could not distinguish my desires from the ideas of the doctrine. Even today 10 years later there are moments when I ask myself "Is this thought mine, or is it what I was taught to think?". I still can't figure out who I want to be and what I want out of life, which makes it hard to set goals.
Thank you for this! I was raised Southern Baptist and it was horrible. My parents’ ideas of “discipline” was to beat us as young as one year of age and simply call it “spanking.” It did permanent damage to our mental health!
Part of the reclaiming, especially in terms of self doubt, is not only about my right to make my own decisions but also about my right to make mistakes. In this system and family, perfection is the standard. Mistakes aren't simply mistakes; they are treated as nothing short of a complete failure of my salvation from my sinful self. Mistakes are big deals growing up and that creates the crux of the self doubt and anxiety with making decisions. So a big part of healing that has helped me is to recognize my right to make mistakes too. I can give myself that permission that I didn't have as a child to just be a human being, not inherently sinful, but inherently curious and adventurous, where happiness isn't sin but can actually be the goal. Trusting myself involves not just trusting myself to make the right decision, but also trusting myself to get myself out of the wrong decision. And then, eventually with time and years of making decisions, I've healed enough to realize there is no wrong and right decision and that is further part of the programming forced upon me. Thank you for this video.
My abusive Mom was trying to cast a demon out of my 8 year old daughter last year, she had grabbed her by her foot as she was praying loudly for the demons to leave her as she was dragging her out of the bed as I was trying to get my 3 yr old to sleep (we were there for an overnight visit) 🤯 My daughter has PTSD from my abusive ex husband/her Dad strangling her. We're no contact now!
I was insidiously abused by church leadership and the whole scene, then became, inadvertently, legalistic and self-righteous, then became one of the abusers, to my kids, and others. Not intentionally, but because I knew no other way(s), and worse, I wasn't open to other ways. Self-help books and "gurus" were unashamedly denounced from the pulpit, and well as other philosophies and truths, such as can be found in many Buddhist teachings. Over the past 8-9 years I've made drastic changes and, thankfully, my kids (26, 23, and 21 years old) see that, and it's helped in their healing journeys. So much more I could say about this subject. Thank you, Patrick 😌
Don't fall into another ancient faith/arbitrary system. They are all wrong, anti reason, anti individuality, and pro-Altruism and self sacrifice, almost across the board.
I am watching this for the second time. This is the most accurate and helpful discussion of the JW upbringing. I feel understood for the first time. It was bad, but I’m still alive unlike my friend who hanged herself. Thank you Patrick, from the bottom of my healing heart.
ellegee4683 I am so very sorry to hear about your brother! Heartbreaking how many lives have been lost, taken, upended. The tentacles of the JW message are poisonous. 💕
My heart and prayers to both of you I am a survivor as well. I NEVER brought in to the JW religion it just felt wrong from my childhood. I was abused by my Patents who treated me like garbage because I refused the religion. I stood my ground and believe in my heart Jehovah protected me. That religion is not his way. We and many others have stories and could compare notes. I rejected the religion and embraced Jehovah. He is love. Nothing we experienced demonstrated that. Know God for yourself you will find peace in your hearts❤❤
Thank you for doing this video. I grew up and got married in a cult-like upbringing. The churches themselves weren’t too bad but my family would switch every time the church went against my family’s strict ideas. I went against everyone I ever knew to divorce my husband who was abusing me. I lost everyone but a couple of my friends, even ones I thought for sure would have my back. It was the hardest thing I’ve ever done but so worth it. So worth it.
I was assigned female at birth and raised in the Charismatic Christian "community" People of Praise in the 90s and 00s. My parents were community leaders and one of them worked at a People of Praise college prep school, which I attended. Been trying to find resources on religious childhood trauma for *years* but there's just not nearly enough of it out there. I hope this becomes a more prevalent focus for therapists, because it is such an enormously complicating factor to common childhood trauma issues. I've done a lot of healing from the sexual abuse and neglect, but it only goes so far without being able to untangle the thought patterns and subconscious beliefs from intense religious indoctrination and grooming. Especially when complicated by autism or other issues that severely impact your abilities to intuitively understand yourself and the world around you.
Autistic gay here. I fully embraced the ideology i was raised up in. It had me on the brink of suicidal tendencies for 15 years. I was taught and i fully believed how evil homosexuality was. It created 2 separate sides of me.
Autistic queer religious abuse survivors got eachothers backs in this world (though sometimes we mess each other up more figuring out our issues). I haven't found understanding many other places. It takes a lot of strength to survive that level of confusion.
Thank you for this one Patrick, of the traumatic events in my childhood religion played a huge role. An experience I will share, when I was 13 I told my mother I thought I was atheist (my mother was Mormon). Her response was to burst out crying and ran out of the house to who the hell knows where out of anger and sadness (like a kid). When she finally came back she lectured me. Then every single adult I knew who was in my mothers circle shamed and berated me for not "respecting" my mother. As if having a personal belief different than what she wanted is disrespect?? Haha. She went into straight denial after that and continued to force me to participate in religious activities until I was an adult. So there it is, instead of getting to know me as who I was, and who I was trying to become, she tried to ram me down the path she wanted me on. She chose the religion over me and hence the emotional neglect. I was almost never able to share my true opinions with her. While only one of the traumatic events of my childhood, I have to wonder how much better I would be, feel, and relate to her if she had simply tried to cultivate and get to know me for me, and not try to force the world to comply to her whims. Thanks again
This was a great video and I can relate to a lot of the comments. The veil was only lifted after I got out. I felt frustrated at being duped and angry with the blindeye to all of the dodgy stuff going on. Biggest challenge for me was/still is recreating a community. All the best to everyone going through the journey.
In recovery "socializing doesn't feel like an agenda." WOW, this is spot on. I had so much anxiety about evangelizing as a child in every situation and felt like a failure if I didn't convert somebody. Not fair to a kid! Thank you for highlighting that.
LOOOOVE the traction this topic is gaining. I love love love so much that more and more people are starting to deconstruct what we were indoctrinated to obey. The internal healing I gained from leaving a cult that drilled into my head I'm lesser because of my gender is indescribable. I 100% believe there is not a single female in any of these patriarchal cults that isn't traumatized on a deep visceral level.
Great video, I feel we don't talk about this enough. I grew up in a cult too, we couldn't have friends, go out, watch movies, listen to music that wasn't Christian, it was hell, it was a living hell. I find it difficult to have friends, because I wasn't allowed to have friends, that damage my social part and sometimes I feel alone. Those kind of things marks you for life. The construction was hard was the hardest thing I've ever had to do and I'm still in the process, but I feel stronger and I feel like I'm worth it, can you imagine I was about to marry a grown man as a 15 year old!!!!! with the blessing of my parents just because "hE wAs cHriStIaN" I felt so betrayed, I was depressed for so many years in my teenage years. I wish only the best for anybody who is going through this, I feel like I'm going to be deconstructing for life because I missed so many stages of childhood and my teenage years, I'm deconstructing, but I feel so much better now. I feel that you get what this is all about, you get so many aspects of religion and cults, and how that affects a human being. I like your videos so much and I learn so much with them. Thank you for sharing this.
I was tormented by the idea of eternal torture in hell as a child. The churches I was brought to loved using that threat to gain converts at the end of services. Saying if you didn't know without a shadow of a doubt then your heart wasn't right with god. There was so much that didn't make sense to me about fundamentalist Christianity and yet I was kept in a state of stasis due to the extreme threats of torture and violence that were commonplace in my community and home. Very early on I was scolded for asking simple logical questions about the existence of god and was told to be careful with my thinking and to not think I was smarter than god by my own parents. It's hard for me knowing my parents chose their own comfort by clinging to ideology rather than the comfort of their 5 year old child. Choosing to shame me rather than critically analyze their own beliefs. Thanks for the video Patrick! I've been slowly deconstructing more and more over the past decade and it's often frustrating to me how deep the indoctrination and religious abuse goes. I'm in a much healthier space now, but wow has it been a difficult journey.
I grew up in a fundy household(first memory was a pro life rally), Baptist school, and Pentecostal church. So, I have the trinity of trauma as I call it. My dad was(and still is to some extent) controlling, and shame about purity and culture. While women and girls suffered the most from the patriarchy and purity culture, those of us who are LGBT suffered in our severe ways. The other thing was disorder in what should be an orderly system. Never knew what random dancing,prophecy, and spontaneous worship expression was going to happen(we even had a conga line a few times at church), and I never knew when my dad would blow a gasket. Combine that with developmental delay and childhood trauma of our home being entered and attempted to be entered, and I still struggle for that sense of safety and stability. Thanks for sharing. I am still here at 40 deconstructing and literally finding myself as someone also on the spectrum. What many in my age group did in their late teens, I am doing now. I am still a Christian but no longer an attender. I want to attend somewhere again, but it is very hard to find a church that fits my hodgepodge of beliefs regarding Christianity. When I bring up my trauma, I get “you didn’t live in Africa, we fed you. You had a much better childhood than I had. Then there was my favorite, “It didn’t happen like that.”
Everything you said about the religious nuclear family is spot on. Growing up in a fundamental Christian environment with parents who were neglectful, my life was intensely controlled. Everything I was influenced by had to be labeled “Christian” made my world isolated as I was the cardboard cutout my parents wanted me to be. Being abused at home and in the church even by my religious doctor made life confusing and caused so many mental issues that I finally dealt with as an adult now that I have deconstructed
I grew up in God fearing and guilt catholic environment. We always went to church every Sunday. It got worse when my Dad became alcoholic and gambled. My Mom became more extreme in her religious beliefs. She prayed 24/7. She would wake up early around 3am to pray 2x a day and goes to church everyday. I didn't understand then. She became more critical of me when I finally told her I didn't want to go when I was in my 20's and moved out. She would always lecture religious beliefs to me all the time. I mean everytime I talked to her. It made me more adverse to going to church. I kept telling her I don't need the lecture. It was hard for me to talk to her. She wondered why I didn't call her. I learned thru therapy that this was her way of dealing with her personal issues dealing with my Dad. My Dad became the same as he got older and stopped drinking. He got mad at me for the 1st time why I wasn't going with them to church. I was in my mid 30's! When my Parents passed away in 2020. I got confused and guilty that I didn't go to church. I am still learning how to let go of feeling guilty and thinking that God will punish me if I didn't go. It's a process for me.
One common denominator I’ve noticed in this comment thread and in life itself is how religion in itself has a lot of fear associated with it. That has nothing to do with faith and faith has everything to do with God. I find it to be true that majority of religious people really don’t have faith. Because if they stopped going to church, stopped tithing, stopped doing whatever they was told they needed to do for God to be pleased…. They FEAR the worse. I’ve been there and went through that in the past year after leaving a church I was a member of from 2015-2022. Not a family church, but one I joined in College. It was often accused of being a cult by members who would leave. I couldn’t see it for myself until I left and looked back at many instances of the pastor’s narcissistic, manipulative, controlling, abusive behavior. I highly recommend listening to “The Power of Faith” by Napoleon Hill here on UA-cam. They have free audios of the chapters. He hit it on the head and talked about how religion has used fear to bring people in and control them in many ways. Fear does a lot of damage and literally will have us manifesting that which we absolutely abhor. Because our thoughts really can create our reality. Hence, manifesting. Faith is absolutely necessary for this life, religion is not. And going to church is just one of many religious acts. Nothing wrong with going when it’s a healthy environment. But feeling the need to go to appease a loving God is not even true.
I have been questioning my faith. This is spot on. I didn’t realize how deep my trauma went until it suddenly all caught up to me. I am trying slowly to dissociate. Half of my family was torn apart because of “The Christian faith” my parents love the church and “God” more than us. The emotional neglect is really taking a toll on me. I have treated people poorly because because of their “sin” I am also scared of relationships and sex because it’s a “sin” I realized I was faking it and still am to please parents for fear of them punishing me. I am so scared. I don’t want to live in fear anymore. I need to start living.
I was raised in a messed up catholic system. As soon as i could i broke with that and became protestant. Husband was raised pentecostal and i think it went even worse for him. We practice our faith at home. Institutions are not for us as they all seem to twist the gospel into something negative.
My Mom's family celebrated Christmas and birthdays.....until she turned 10 in 1944.....her mother joined the JWs and family life was never the same. There was already dysfunction....but things became worse once the JW cult entered the picture.
I was half listening when he said "you'll go to hell if you don't subscribe" and for a moment I thought he meant subscribe to his channel and was like "well, that's some heavy advertising" for a second before hearing the full sentence. Anyways, thank you for sharing this, this channel is awesome both for reference and introspection.
Thankyou so much for this video.Point by point,you summed up my life. For me just to put it up here that i am an ex JW is very risky as far as repercussions go from the high control organisation. Ive lived with fear all my life since being born into the family/religious system you address in this video. The layers of abuse run deep and still have a hold now as an adult.I still dont truly feel like i fit in anywhere. Still grieving the life that was lost to this 24/7 cultish existence of which you had no control. You either conform or you pay the price. You have the constant threat of losing family and friends if you dare to think for yourself and question the organisation.You will pay dearly for trying to break away. From childhood onwards you live with fear of displeasing god as it means he will destroy you when he takes out all of wicked mankind! You are taught that if you are not with god then you are against him ( on the devils side) which then means you are deserving of death at armageddon. If thats not abuse, what is? I'm just exhausted and i dont want to suffer in silence anymore.
@dagmarpilotti3884 exhausted sums it up perfectly. I faded years ago and will think I'm recovered then bam - my first instincts on something will be guilt/shame when doing perfectly normal, healthy things (say, taking my son to a birthday party - GASP, or commenting online somewhere). It.never.ends. Love to you, glad you're out also!
Great video ! I grew up in a Pentecostal Christian family. We grew up poor because my father would give all of the money to church. My mother would always remind my dad that charity begins at home. The final straw for me leaving the religion was my brother coming out of the closet and me getting in the military when the war started back in 2002. My mother hated the fact I got into military during wartime and spoke to the pastor who then told her that "maybe God's intentions was me to die". My brother on the other hand was treated horribly and was told he'd be disowned if he ever came out. What I learned in life is there are good people and bad people. Bad people love to disguise themselves as good people and manipulate people into thinking in order to be a good person you must do what they do.
Wonderful truthful video. My sisters and I grew up in a Southern Pentecostal church setting. Alot of fire and brimstone preaching and misogynistic teachings against women. Fortunately we did not get caught up in that mentality, however we did experience so much childhood trauma from those experiences. Our mother still attends that same church and is deeply devoted. In fact, we just found out that she took my sisters and I off the deed to her house and replaced it with that same church. She feels that this church has been there for her even though my sisters and I have made roof repairs, bought her new appliances, kept food in her fridge, and attempted to have a healthy relationship with her, even though she was very abusive to us as children and young adults. At the end of the day, it's her house and she can ultimately do what she wishes, but we were very crushed at her blind loyalty. However this is not the first time she's put other people or things before her children. We have decided to go no contact with her at this point due to her aggressive uncaring behavior when we attempted to talk with her about our feelings. I believe that is for the best. Again insightful video that I shared with my sisters to help us get thru childhood trauma.
I've been out of catholicism for decades now, and it's wild how that old programming can still affect my mood or color my choices through a 'sinful' lens. I especially appreciated you naming the piece around deferring to men no matter what. I am still unlearning the reflexive "I don't want to be bad and reject him" narrative. It's worth pointing out that other societal pressures influenced that narrative as well, but it's worth examining how those societal pressures originated in the first place.
![Lp. Сердце Вселенной #60 РОЖДЕНИЕ ЛОЛОЛОШКИ [Финал] • Майнкрафт](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/YoR0pAV9FVQ/mqdefault.jpg)
I grew up a Jehovah’s Witness and I want to say the hardest part of healing for me is grieving that I didn’t get to be a child and discover who I was or what I liked as a kid. I lived in constant terror that a small mistake would upset Jehovah enough to deem me worthy of destruction at Armageddon. Its taken years to grieve the child I didn’t get to be and work through the terror that still lives in my body. Grateful to EMDR and EFT and mind body healing modalities that have helped me process a lot of this. Thanks for the video it was very validating.
🫂 Our childhoods were stolen from us and sacrificed to the watchtower organization/the governing body. People aren't worshipping God. They are worshipping the group of old men running the show.
My heart goes out to you. In a way, we got out and are now brothers and sisters in recovery. I'm so proud of you for still being here✨️
As a fellow former JW who went through deconstruction, I'm proud of us for leaving and doing the work. 🎉✨️❤
Right there with all of you! 💕🙏
At least we escaped and can now heal.
Me too
I’ve also noticed, at least in my local area, that there seems to be a pattern of shitty fathers among congregations. When I enter different friend groups there’s always at least one person with a verbally/emotionally abusive father. Certain disagreeable teachings aside, there’s many people who don’t practice what they preach in terms of the whole “how to be a good person” side of it and I still can’t believe the shit I’ve heard from those with authority.
There are SO many parallels between domestic violence and religious abuse! It’s the coercive control techniques, the gaslighting, etc. We talk about this a lot among survivors.
I ran from an abusive family into a cult I was so hungry for affection and basic attention. I needed to be acknowledged that I existed. And boy did they acknowledge me.
Uuuwi ! Sorry for that, I hope your're okay now ♥
❤
@@ellegee4683 it enrages me that all of the standard “recovery” programs do that hypocritical stuff. Like they’ll say: “we aren’t religiously affiliated” then they immediately after say “the Christian Lord’s Prayer” which the HYPOCRISY just makes me not trust anything else they have to say. Like…seriously? Does everyone else not see this?
@BravosReviews, yes, I agree.
Yup, same here. It took me 18 years to fully get out 😕 I’m glad to see a therapist talking about this. Not enough of them are educated about this serious and pervasive problem.
I was in Jim Jones' church when I was a kid, The People's Temple that later went to Guyana and he killed practically everyone in the church. When I hear people joke, "drank the kool aid" it freaks me out. My mom had some issues with Jim and we stopped going to his church by the time he moved to California.
Oh golly. That has to be awful thinking about what if y'all stayed in that..😳 Did your mom realize he was nuts?!
JONESTOWN affected me deeply. Just saw a Tracy Parks video about her survival. S.F. left that church standing on Geary for years. It's now a post office. They should have RAZED that thing and made a park. They STILL are yet to finalize a MEMORIAL.
@@russrussel3947 You want to destroy one building then build a memorial. I'm glad the building is still used, let it be a positive now, people sending and getting packages, presents, checks. Why destroy it? You have severe issues and it's not about Jonestown.
@@eckankar7756 The Geary passed by it everyday on the way to work and was Creepy and Sad. Most people didn't even know what it was or WHY it was fenced off sitting there for decades, or if they did, they made jokes about the "drinking the kool aide" church. I thought you might understand.
@@eckankar7756 Also, my paternal parent left when I was two and so at 6 had to look through the list of the dead seeing if he had died there.
Ex JW here. Forcing children to go to strangers homes and giving them publication's, taught we are the only true religion, taught that Armageddon could happen at any moment, if you aren't a good enough JW you won't get to live in a paradise with your family, made to feel great shame for asking questions, made to feel that self-pleasure was a huge sin, once you leave you are wordly and unworthy of close relationships with family that you left behind..I could go on and on..these are the highlights you mentioned and i just want to say thank you. Im 44 and I still don't have a handle on my internal compass. I left when i was 13. I was born into it. I used to have nightmares of Armageddon as a child and definitely thought the outside world was a scary evil place. Whew, lot's to unpack.
Same here, I'm 42 now. I left when I was 19 or 20. And I just recently find out that religious abuse is a thing. No idea who the hell I am. Thinking growing up I had to defend the cult when others where talking about like it's a weird thing. I wanna give you a big hug 🫂 🤗 and wish you well on your journey to recovery ♥️
From my own experience, it helps if you can just relax all those old, false standards, and just live your life as it is, without painting it with religious ideas. The more you can just move on, the better it will get, and the easier it becomes to just let go of all those false concepts.
I left at 14 and came back at 28 I’ll never leave again I’m not perfect and I keep messing up but it’s the best !!
Same here, was born into the jw cult so I had no choice, I left in my early 20s and will never go back. I finally feel free to be me. life has been challenging as I heal from and face my childhood trauma but I am healing thanks to God's grace.
@@stardustskywalker7327why are you in this conversation then? 🤔
You get to decide:
-How you spend your time,
-With whom you spend it, and
-What makes you happy
Thank you so much! These videos are so helpful to me on my healing journey
Left the Mormon church and recovering from a religiously abusive safe house. I'm ready 🙂
me too❤️
Also exmo! Very validating to hear a nevermo say these things.😊
Exmo here as well!
Another exmo. There's a huge community of us. Anyone seeing this: you're not alone.
Hello exmo's!
At this time, the most helpful thing for me is what this video is a part of: increasing recognition that spiritual abuse and religious trauma is a THING. In the years since my teens, I’ve gotten the message from my whole family that, “sure maybe your mom is a piece of work, but calling her teachings a cult is going too far.” And I’ve felt unworthy of calling myself a child abuse survivor because it was “only” emotional abuse, not hitting or SA. She crushed my spirit and I still struggle with low self-esteem, even self-hatred because she didn’t know or care that I was a sensitive kid and a tender age when she taught me to hate myself for being a sinner.
yes! so much this. how relieving and validating that it’s being talked about finally!!
Majority of kids are rebellious and don’t take religion seriously. I think this is protective. The ones that really end up F cked up are the ones who take religion seriously and internalize that shit make it a foundation bc that’s what you are told to do. It’s harder to deprogram this people. So basically the obedient child gets to bear the worst adverse effects that religion leaves behind when the belief is done away with
Abuse is abuse is abuse. Water can be ice or vapor but all is still made of H20. You’re a victim of abuse; true, even if I’m a victim of all three. And I’m glad you and I survived and we both (along with all the other wonderful healing folks) get to spend some time with Patrick T and feel seen enough to help us continue the healing journey.
This has been my exact experience too, every part. So well put. Sorry you had to endure that😢
Ex-mormon here, I think this video may have unlocked the next level of my recovery. I was just discussing with my therapist how I have been almost stubbornly dismissive of the impact growing up Mormon (in Utah) has had on me because I've been out of it for so long. I had the double whammy of a toxic family system and being not just Mormon but completely isolated from the outside world due to growing up in a city that is only just shy of being 100% Mormon in a state that is also majority Mormon. It's like it was another lifetime. The more my therapist and I talk about it the more I have begun realize how much I still have to unpack and basically every point made here resonated with me, so much that I stopped what I was doing so I could take notes. Really helps me understand why I am struggling with these things even over a decade after leaving and 2+ years into therapy.
There is also a great podcast, UA-cam channel for Mormons who are doubting or feeling the problems caused by high demand Mormonism and ex Mormons called Mormon stories.
I've only been out of mormonism for 11 years but I am starting to realize how I've just been trying to ignore the mormonism still stuck inside. I've got to unpack with a professional lol
i grew up mormon in utah too. there are hardly any examples of non mormons to look to, you can be so closed off from reality. i was a sensitive kid. my dad always talked about the “signs of the times”. i started having panic attacks at age 11 bc I was so afraid of going to hell or burning at the second coming. i couldn’t talk to anyone about it, had to keep it bottled up. it’s no wonder to me i’ve had so many health problems as an adult. 10 years out and i’ve come a long way. a lot of depression and craving validation i’ll never get from my family. still noticing new things, like a constant ambient shame/guilt about almost everything, lol. mostly dealing with the grief and sadness that comes with being estranged, the odd one out, misunderstood, so many years spent confused and unsure. hoping my younger siblings like me and will trust me if they ever want to leave.
Former Mormon here too, toxic family system caused in part from the cult, it’s a cult. I grew up in and still live in Utah. Once you get more healed, you begin to see the cult like system that exists for those who still abide within its grasp. What’s difficult in Utah is the extreme fundamentalism fabric that gives no spectrum of navigation. The Mormon cult is so complex and comprehensive that you can’t really tell how to navigate social norms among both Mormons and ex Mormons. If that makes sense.
I was raised in a VERY toxic religious cult. This is 💯 spot-on!
#metoo❤
There are so many people with similar stories of religious abuse. I wish mainstream media would address it more.
@@AgeismGoesBothWays we're making headway with documentaries like Shiny Happy People and Sins of the Amish
Dear Patrick... these are all topics I have studied in depth. You have done a very good job. One point: re "deconstructing"... this too, is a part of those attempting to "de-trans". Before you flippantly (or out of good intent) throw in a highly charged global situation ("2015-2023ff" transgender issues). Big faux pas (should have left that out until you have a broader understanding vs the given "narratives".*... Check out *"de-transitioning panels*) just to get started. To date... AT LEAST 7 kids *trans clinics in Europe have been SHUT DOWN*. Inside whistle blowers... and those who had surgeries going back for support being given the COLD SHOULDER. The community who surrounded them, made them not feel alone simply turning their backs to them... *SHUNNING. .... The CULT is the IDEALS and NARRATIVES being wrongly and quickly sold to troubled youth - not in the long-term support... but turning over numbers.
When big corporations and big banksters are involve... you really got to stand back and take a look at the whole of what is really going on. WHEN... tell me WHEN do huge multinational corporations really care about us... the masses? They don't... #FollowTheMoney
it's about money, power... and in this case...
creating more disruption, and ultimately setting the stage for trans-HUMANISM... aka, the ultimate control (end) of humanity / free will!
SEE: WHITNEY WEBB on Trans-gender/trans-humanism... Klaus Schwab, The Great Reset, the 4th Industrial Revolution, etc.
Also... *James Corbet*... the Corbet Report... just for starters.
Keep up the good work!
Try not to jump into any topic that has had
24/7 corporate media cycle attention
@@AgeismGoesBothWays I really thought Leah Remini's series would jumpstart something. It was really well done. Disappointing that we don't see more coverage
My entire family used religion to justify beating. If it wasn't there way it wasn't His way. If it's out of line in their eyes let's whip her.. I can't wait to hear the video. You might not see this comment but the work you do is helping so many
yup.
@@ellegee4683I know that feeling. I got beaten into confessing to something I didn’t actually do because my parents didn’t believe me to be telling “THE TRUTH”. I was six.
Who actually thinks torturing a six year child is ok?
@@marthahawkinson-michau9611sick narcissists
Same here and I grew up Muslim
I left at 14 and came back at 28 I love it!!
Surprised and thrilled to hear you clearly labeling Mormonism as an abusive fundamentalist religion!
Well, yeah!
I grew up in the JW cult. My deepest issues involve this. Thankful my family left but the wound is deep.
Same
Me too.
Me too.
Same here! Dealing with CPTSD and it has torn my life apart. Wishing all of you strength✨️
Me too, I can't wait to watch
Thank you for sharing this. I was raised in an extremely controlling Christian Cult in Texas. My childhood was full of isolation, abuse and neglect. At 52 years old, I’m still dealing with the aftermath but I am working with an excellent therapist and I’m learning to love myself for the first time in my life.
Dad is so far into the Catholic Church it is like a cult, couldn't warch the Smurfs as a kid because they were told it was Satanic. 🙄 ugh. This video was spot on.
I remember when people used to say the smurfs were the devil! It made me like my little sumrf keychain figurine a lot more. I would show it off. 😂
Smurfs were demons in the JWs too!
Same! I wasnt permitted to watch Smurfs either, or many things. I wasnt permitted to be a kid during my timeline with my generation. I wasnt permitted to be a kid. Physical, emotional, and mental abused all around extreme religious fanaticism.
I think there must be a specific name for those of us who were abused children during the weird height of fundamentalism in the 80s/90s. Very weird abuse that goes unnoticed by the appearance of "wholesomeness".
Holyshit I forgot all about the Smurfs. Probably because I was never allowed to watch them either.. i remember my mom saying the cat Azrael and gargamel the bad guy were names of evil spirits or some garbage like that. There was actually a lot of stuff it wasn't allowed to watch
@@bjslayer8690 Yes, same here! Pokémon, Yugioh, anything magical, Trick-or-Treating, all those things were considered demonic in my church
Spot on. I had nightmares as a kid about hell, and now consider that to be child abuse. Working with women in a 12 step program is so much smoother when there is no fundamental religious background. Give me someone with no higher power any day! What a process of undoing, spiritual trauma is. Thank God for those deconstructing and reconstructing in public, now. There is community there, too.
@@ellegee4683 Thank you so much. A lot of work, and undoing, but yes. Very well. 💗
I've often wondered why religious people can't see the hypocrisy of harassing other people being bad, and abusive, but think they are good people for "spreading the word." If the Word was that good, people wouldn't need to be bullied and chased down to have it beaten into their heads.
@@vkumrawishing you the best I also had nightmares in the years I was suffering under religion cause of being trapped.
@@maryamdiao1509 I hope you are doing well, now. Being trapped in an oppressive, fear based system feels very overwhelming and futile. But then we are set free (indeed) ;) It does get better and better over time, and freedom does eventually come.
@@ShintogaDeathAngel many have turned it into not very good news, haven't they.
Thank you for saying mormonism. It is most definitely a high demand fundamentalist religion
Per Steven Hassan's BITE model the LDS church is a cult.
As an exmormon i am also grateful
Yes, I'm a survivor of the mainstream Mormon church. I still bear the scars.
I value your work so much. Thank you Patrick. You're the first person who provided me with the warmth, connection and understanding I'd been seeking my whole life. Words fail to express my gratitude to you.
wow... great support! FYI: CHECK--> Healing the trauma/feelings of C-PTSD is absolutely possible... FAST & EFFECTIVE!! (Every therapist needs to learn this... much better than EMDR, etc. Find *ART (Accelerated Resolution Therapy)* & *see Studies comparison of ART* TO EMDR & Brainspotting videos below.
ART explain/demo: ua-cam.com/video/XZQbo2aoQmg/v-deo.html
Science backed: ua-cam.com/video/JxFPwKSUePk/v-deo.html
I grew up in a Hispanic Pentecostal Church (a denomination of Christianity) that also happened to be ran by my uncle & aunt :) so almost the entire church was my family, the amount of judgment I received growing up and even now, is insane & hypocritical. I’m very excited to watch this video and feel validated, seen and heard! Thank you Patrick for all that you do! Your content is very healing for all of us 🫶🏽🤍🥹
Update after watching!!!
Wow, I was shook because I knew my religious upbringing caused a lot of emotional turmoil internally but every time you told us to really think about how the family and the fundamental lens affected us it really brought everything into perspective. Everything you said was beyond validating and I really appreciate you starting everything because I’ve had no one in my life to validate that yes I’m fact it was my family AND the strict fundamental ideas that my church had that affected my mental health and still affect me! I’m still learning it’s okay to be me and I’m not a demon or going to hell just because I view things completely differently. It’s really sad being ostracized from not only your family but your “made up” family too is such a lonely path and really makes you doubt your entire existence, videos like yours are really what allow peoples inner child to feel seen, heard & validated. I’m really happy I’ve been able to see your content and I’m excited to start posting videos of my own story of self love and healing after leaving the church and starting my spiritual journey!
🤍🤍🤍🤍🤍
Thank you all for the likes and comments, I’m sorry if you’ve gone through similar trauma and if you want to share your story below like others have already, I think it would offer a beautiful way for us all to feel seen & heard 🫶🏽
Bless you. That would be a very difficult combination of circumstances.
Me too and I’m gay. My church protected and continues to protects the family member who SA’d me.
Thankfully I have worked past all of this, but yeah the Pentecostal church is a cult. They tell us we are different than the rest of the world and various other rules. They ask people to fast and stay in church long hours, so we’re sleep deprived and not functioning on a healthy life with hobbies. It was just church 24/7.
I grew up adjacent to oneness pentecostalism and from my vantage point, it was *awful*. We had loads of HPC churches around too and it just seemed to crush children's spirits. I'm sorry you grew up in that. Damn. 💜
@@eetoved1758 thank you for validating my experience love 🫶🏽 it definitely was rough 🥺
@@catie5939 yeah years after leaving the church I’ve been able to see how it literally suppressed our freedom of expression in so many ways and it’s very traumatizing overall, it’s quite sad since it’s supposed to be a place of love but it’s quite the opposite. I appreciate your kindness :)
I grew up in fundamentalist Mormonism and nearly all of these points hit home. The hardest one of all is that feeling of abandoning brothers and sisters who are still trapped in that environment and even my sisters are being married off now to much older church men as polygamous wives and how they've been groomed into it. It sickens me to my stomach to have to witness. 😞💔
I feel your pain, leaving siblings behind hurts. Especially when you were raised to be so family focused. My heart goes out to you.
Still it's good we got out to pave a pathway that can look like an alternate option for them when and if they are open to it.
I'm a recovering Catholic, so I have a feeling this video will speak to me. :)
Me too, i can't wait for this video!!
@@domperdomper9250Catholic in recovery here.
Same!!!
Me too!
I’m cradle catholic but it helps me so much to pray the rosary ❤
As a exjw myself, I can see now how you are actually taught narcissistic traits, 2 years in therapy, amazing therapist, amazing difference in my life. Much love to you all!
This organization is a narcs dream you are taught you are better than others and can look down on those who don't know the truth
This quote has always rang true to me, even as a child I could feel it:
There’s no hate like Christian love.
Love it🙊🙉🙈
How is love hate? it’s false prophets that hate under the guise of love. They are the issue.
@@limes-x6l im sorry but most christians that i have met are very hateful, not just the prophets like u said. i grew up in a christian household so i know
*There's no bigotry like leftist tolerance.* Never felt more hate and judgment than from those who scream "tolerance" the loudest. I've been around fundamentalist, but never experience the type of verbal and emotional abuse coming from my fellow liberal teachers, peers, and community. I had to move to a different city to finally get away from the regular abuse. Every side has extremism on each end.
@@sugarspice7768 Yeah, Kamala Harris just offered Zimbabwe $60 Million Dollars so that they institute an LGBQT policy....when folks on Maui are being offered a one-time $700 dollars❗❗❗❗And the government wants to take their Land. ❗❗❗❗
This issue is so prevalent and not talked about it enough.
Spiritual abuse is so rampant and goes under the radar. There are a lot of narcissistic leaders and parishioners in religious settings that go under the radar in the name of "forgiveness" etc.
Honestly doubly traumatic with an extra layer of guilt and shame. ❤.
Yes!
The best thing a psychologist told me is that I didn't have to forgive my father, I needed to forgive myself because it wasn't my fault. That was so healing. I was told for so long that it was my fault or that I Must forgive him.
That said, I would argue that this video doesn’t go FAR enough. I hope future Mental health professionals have the courage to face the fact that the BELIEFS themselves of Christian Fundamentalist/Evangelicals (specifically the belief in original sin) are in/of itself the definition of abusive. To teach a CHILD that they are NOT okay as they are is deeply wrong and can lead to a life corroded by toxic shame. Not to mention the belief described as “Complementarianism” where they teach us to believe that women need a man to pair with to ‘complete’ the woman and make her whole. It’s all so toxic. But those 2 beliefs alone will seriously screw a person up for life…
I agree, I still think it's great that Patrick covers these topics but you make very good points. My own adoptive family (well, grandmother mostly) tried to instill a belief in me that I wasn't an 'OK person,' but luckily I didn't fully internalise that. I'm still angry and sad for my child-self who just wanted to be accepted that they had that attitude, among a few other things, though.
@@ShintogaDeathAngel yep - my other comment thanked him for bringing light to the realities of RT
Agree, Patrick left an open back door for religions to sneak out of. I challenge Patrick to name five religions that don't believe they are The Truth/The Path/The Chosen and everyone else is living in ignorance (and usually going to hell/dead at Armageddon/not going up in the rapture/etc.)
Absolutely. I grew up Catholic and, as a child, couldn’t comprehend why I had to go to ‘Confession’ and tell my 8-year-old ‘sins’ to some priest behind a screen. Just the design of the confessional tells a child that something they presumably did was ‘bad’ or ‘evil’ and it must be confessed in a tiny box of a space, hidden away, to a strange man the child doesn’t know. Before a child has a distinct sense of self, they are taught that they are inherently flawed and must be saved by this mysterious, patriarchal organization. That, coupled with emotional abuse and neglect, was enough to turn me off from religion for life. I’d argue that any organised religion is or has the capacity to become a cult, especially when its rituals are designed to evoke shame and guilt. Before my first confession, I asked my mother what to say to the priest. She told me to “Tell the priest that you were fresh to your mother.” There you go! Abuse with a ‘spiritual’ flourish!
Facts!
Thank you for mentioning mormonism as an example of a cult. I was raised mormon and as a highly sensitive, undiagnosed autistic female (I was diagnosed at age 36), growing up in this family and religious environment really messed me up, for lack of a better way of phrasing that. And for so long the messaging I received was that I was the one with the problem. And even now, my parents are unable to see how anything to do with my upbringing would have caused me to have so many struggles with mental health - again, “I’m the one with the problem”.
This video is so incredibly validating and I thank you for addressing this topic. 🙏🙏
Me too love. Highly sensitive, autistic, raised LDS. They really dug some holes in our inner power didn't they? I'm glad we were strong enough to see past the lies and gaslighting to know the problem was the church all along. It was never us. I lived in California with a diverse popularity (not super Mormon at all) so I grew up with a lot of cognitive dissonance, stemming from having to pretend to believe at church in something that felt so wrong compared to the outside world. At school I would tell no one about being mormon bc I was embarrassed. I knew there was something wrong with us bc people would ask "isn't that a cult?" when I used to share. Just made me feel more like there was something wrong with me, it was coming from both sides lol. I finally left at 19, 29 now and still reeling from mit all.
How old were you when you left?
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I completely relate! 28 and I suspect ADHD and autistic (but undiagnosed for now) here! The cocktail of religious trauma, a narcissistic father, a neglectful mom and being unable to escape it because I live in Utah surrounded by LDS culture and not fitting in... It's suffocating!
I wish you the best in your journey to take your life back!
Religious cults are like a big extended family--I can't think of a better framework for them then family dysfunction. This video will be amazing. ♥
I wonder how many converts have a trauma background...I was indoctrinated as an adult into the JW cult but was raised in a fundamentalist Baptist church....no cards/dancing/drinking booze etc yet saw the "rules" broken over & over in my childhood home...in fact, I do not remember seeing any of them obeyed lol
Our home was chaos & frightful to the point where I tued most of it out!! so I believe it groomed me fo fall prey to similar fear. .obey or be rejected/abandone/dead... in a sense
I was indoctrinated at a very early age by JW- skewed my childhood into adulthood even though I never was a member formally, still have a hard time enjoying Holidays or birthdays at 62-and I was tortured for years thinking Jehovah was going to strike me dead. Set me up for years going from one abusive "religious ideology" to another until I realized I cannot be in any formal religious group...that was my salvation!
Same.
I grew up Mormon, and this just spoke right to my heart. Like you were strumming my pain!
I had an interesting conversation with my mom recently. I was sexually abused by my father during religious homeschooling and the church shielded him and disciplined me for speaking out. My mom tried to speak up for me, but when I folded under the pressure she stopped. The issue was dropped and the church never censored him.
Over 20 years later we discussed this. She said that she was facing serious pressures too, that the people she trusted were telling her to raise her child in this way, and she didn’t have the confidence to go against them.
I’m working on forgiving her, because I know what she says is true. She DID fail me, but she was also a young mother in a terrible situation with no good guidebook for what to do in this situation. We’re all human.
And as terrible as it was, my own strength a couple years later to bring to cops down on that church and stand up to my father gave her the courage to do many things she never had. Put in another situation years later as a youth leader where adult men were trying to silence accusations of sexual abuse by a teenage girl, she stood by her side loudly and stubbornly.
It’s that that’s helping me forgive her. We can’t change the past, only learn from it.
Grew up in a Pentecostal setting. Things were very black and white. It took me some time to extricate myself from this religious system. Thanks so much for speaking about this topic.
After leaving the Jehovah's witnesses I began to realize that we had been conditioned to notice any setback in life as proof that life outside the religion was terrible and ruled by Satan. On the one hand they would tell us "if you leave and find yourself successful that is Satan tricking you into thinking he is an angel of light." But then on the other hand they would tell us that if we left we would become dejected, full of guilt, unhappy in everything. So no matter what it makes you think maybe it's true when normal life happens.
Interestingly while in the religion if you were successful it was thanks to God, and if you became depressed or had bad things happen it was either a trial to endure or just time and unforseen events. This struck me how the exact same life events were assigned different causes or meaning based on if you were in the religion or out of the religion.
I've had to learn that much of the trauma and stress felt after leaving is a direct result of the abusive shunning practices and those conditioned responses.
I suffered from debilitating panic attacks because my mother went to the extreme with her catholicism. I was constantly warned about being possessed by the devil if I was bad and how every little bump in the night could be the supernatural. It definitly was not healthy, and if anything extremely morbid and it took me years to recover from those panic attacks. I had no safe parent that wpuld correct the evil that my mother was opposing on me. I am glad you brought that up in this video. The compliant partner who allows this to happen and how they are just as guilty for doing nothing to keep their children safe.
Absolutely. Sending hugs. ❤️❤️
Omg. Exactly. You hit the nail on the head. I was raised “ Pentecostal “ and the circus never ended. Including saying every other person who didn’t believe the same was destined to hell. My parents telling me everyone who didn’t believe in babbling in the “ spirit “ were “ lukewarm “ and would be spewed out to eternal damnation. I believe it takes a strong mind to go thru this and out the other side and see it is all a lie.💯
"lukewarm" rings the bell so hard. It is much worse than "cold".
Yep that spiritual babbling was bat shit cray cray. A real nut house
yes
The churches are afraid of people like us with a strong mind!!
There were a couple things you touched on re: cult tactics/practices that I'd like to elaborate.
1. Confession. This is essential in every cult. (In ours we even had to write lists.) But the perceived sin is not what they want from you. Whatever you present, they'll tell you "That's not enough. You're holding back." So you go and revise, and revise, and revise, until you're making false confessions because you can't come up with anything else. That's what they want. They want compliance at all costs, to the point you question your reality, or buy into the lies of what you said you did.
2. Bye bye, parents: I was a teen, and the first thing I was told in the door was how horrible my parents were for sending me there. (The only truth they ever told.) The entire program presented as "treating" us for drug abuse and a toxic childhood, but in reality it was weaponizing our pasts, to destroy any remaining emotional attachment to our parents. (And most of us were already halfway there, as we were all tr@fficked by our own parents: Kidnapped by a bounty hunter our parents hired, or brought there on false pretenses. "It's just a tour.") Cults will RIP you from your family, through coercion, physically violent separation, or both.
"We're your family now."
Really great vid. Cults are complicated to describe to folks who haven't endured it. It's impossible to understand for those lucky enough never to be in one. That's by design. My parents didn't believe me at all until a few books came out. Your breakdown hit all the important points.
Thank you so much for this video. Growing up as a JW with a narcissistic father was really the cherries on top of a confusing and mind altering childhood. My heart goes out to all who are struggling with the aftermath of this kind of double tragedy. These videos really make me feel like I am not alone and that we have a voice. ❤
I grew up in a region of the United States in which this kind of abuse overtakes entire towns to this day. It was terribly unsettling and in many ways contributed to robbing me of my childhood.
The silver lining is that we can always be the change, the parents we never had.
I was raised a spiritual group who followed an Indian Avatar guru. The holier than thou teachings and strict moral beliefs, along with two narcissistic parents who thrived on an image of a fabulous family, created such a terror of anything outside of perfect behavior at all times. It’s taken me decades to try to be OK in my own skin and have gray areas and not be shamed all the time.
Learning about CPTSD is the first time I don’t feel crazy, and Patrick, you are doing such amazing work for people like me. Can’t wait to see this talk.
Kind of ironic how often narcissism and religion seem to mesh.
i grew up with a Hare Krishna father and i can’t tell you how much that movement is so toxic and damaging
@@sarahhbaee I hear you!
I come from a polar opposite of what you experienced. Sunday school was free babysitting. My parents were very opposed to church. I found people that noticed me and were kind. I drifted through several churches because I took what was available to a child. I ended up in the Catholic Church as an adult but didn't join because some beliefs didn't meld with what I grew up with. I know that people confide in you which is wonderful and healing. I didn't realize how lucky I was to not have a negative experience.
Being raised in it is very different. Conversion is an adult choice that can feel empowering.
Thank you, Patrick. I was raised mormon and this video has made me feel really seen. I appreciate what you do 🖤
Same. And I haven't found a counselor who gets how traumatic it is to leave...
@@ryokomusouka Mormon Stories podcast and website has resources and a directory of counselors who will get it. I’m trying to find a counselor too now who understands the deep Mormonism issues that are so hard to shake. Wish you the best.
Same here xx
@@ryokomusouka Same here! I've had several different therapists over the years - the first was worse than useless - just sat there, recording me, asked a question and gave no responses. It's layers upon layers, and you really need something to help kick start the process - knowing where to start is such a big thing.
Exmo here! Making Tiktoks became therapeutic for me!
I was raised Shiny Happy People style by a wannabe Quiverfull set of parents except I ended up and only child. There was so much resentment over my solitary existence on top of the religious and nuclear family abuse. Also, your interpretation of the Quiverfull mentality is spot on
This is alarmingly close to my story 😅
I was a member of a small pentecostal/nondenominational cult growing up. It was only 4 families, including mine. It really stunted my social and emotional growth to the point that joining a megachurch later seemed like such a modern and "cool" alternative. I eventually came to my own conclusions about religion and decided I didn't want any part of it anymore, though to each their own.
I can't thank you enough for making a video on this. It's so important, more than ever. I grew up in a fundamentalist evangelical homeschooling environment. There are so few protections for kids like me, especially for girls against misogynistic attitudes about their capabilities or with purity culture's horrible effects. Add inherited family trauma to a fundie system that outright discouraged emotions or expressing feelings to anyone (because emotions were gateways to sin), and then no ability to have friends outside of the system because of strict black-and-white rules. Not to mention, leaving the home wasn't an option. I wasn't the only one I knew in that situation. Many of my formerly fundie friends have turned away from any religion, and it's no coincidence.
Same and yeah. My sister is still using our old IBLP crap for her kids. It's horrible. I'm still dealing with the religious trauma of that. Politics even more so. 😓
I was raised in an evangelical/pentecostal religion. It took away my individuality, freedom of expression , and self esteem. I was expected to be a sheep. The congregation was called our pastors flock. It all seemed of the norm until middle school. I was home schooled on and off, kept from other kids who weren't in the church. It made me gave behavioral issues in which I was grounded for and had the elders in the church rebuke the devil from my body.
They convinced my family that we had a evil spirit oppression. I didn't realize how much these actions affected me in adult life even after being away from Christianity for 20 something years!!!
Thank you for explaining this. Hopefully I can use it to further process my pent up emotions. 🙌🥰✨️
Mormon here. As kids we were taught if you don't pay tithing you burn to death at the Second coming. That and other teachings left me a terrified wreck until I finally left the church in my forties.
If you don’t give me your money you’re going to hell. That is so wrong and manipulative
The Free Fall is so frightening. I am a grown-ass adult, a middle-aged one at that, and I have no idea what is good, bad, wrong, right, true or a lie. I have absolutely no idea who I am, what I want, or who I am supposed to be. In short, I have no idea what is real. At all. Thank you, Jehovah's Witnesses, for stealing all of this from me, but making damn sure I know that any kind of escape from this hell (temporary or permanent) is an unforgivable sin and that I (and my children, lest we forget the horrible scripture that says the sins of the father (or mother) shall be laid upon the children) will surely die in Armageddon, whether I believe in it or not.
A lot of my native american family call themselves recovering from various denominations of Christianity. Some were survivors of Indian schools in USA and residential schools in Canada. My Mexican families had a different experience, that of being at the bottom of the casta system in the Spanish Empire, then the victims of violent groups. When cultic behaviour is combined with racism and an agenda to forcibly remove people from their families and their land, there is another dimension of trauma, a third toxic system comprising the government and churches, both of which reflected the social attitudes of that era. It has been interesting following the journeys of my people especially over the past two years. The emphasis is on finding yourself as a person and as a member of a tribe , and it has a spiritual basis. By that I mean there are certain behaviours that are recommended by elders and historical people to help get along with others in a tribe without losing your individual dignity and self worth. So it is anti- cultic in a way.
I am sorry that happened to your family. I heard about those residential schools in Canada for indigenous children to brainwash them out of native American ways. Some didn't survive them and disappeared.
The same was going on in Australia with aborigine children especially if they didn't have a father or were half aborigine and half white. They were taken away to be put in orphanages or adopted by white families. This was depicted in the film The Rabbit Proof Fence where a group of girls escaped back to their families and wandered for days in the outback.
I grew up in 2x2 cult and it seriously damaged my mental health. Finally getting help 30 years later.
This was an excellent video and helped me understand why religious abuse mixed with toxic family dynamics is so insidious and hard to heal from. (I no longer have to feel ashamed about that.)
My mother became obsessed with the Catholic Church and I ended up being groomed by a Priest. So I had abuse from my mother insisting I interact with the church and a Priest grooming me under her nose and I could not tell anyone 😢 This is so true, thankyou, I am becoming more independent now
Poor soul , that’s so sad hope you’re doing well now
I’m sorry you went through that. I wish it never happened. It’s so sinister when someone who is supposed to represent God ends up doing the complete opposite. I grew up in a ministry family where there was a lot of spiritually abusive behavior in order to protect my parents image on the mission field. A book that helped a lot was the subtle power of spiritual abuse by David Johnson. It goes through specific spiritually abusive tactics that are often used to destroy people’s souls.
I think the most difficult part for me is family insisting I've changed, like no, I'm just using my own brain now 🤦
So you’re being led astray by evil spirits too and are blinded lol 😅 because thats what they call it when you start to see things clearly and are not letting yourself be controlled, manipulated or abused anymore. 😂
My dad thinks I worship the devil just because I'm not religious and choose not to baptize my daughter🫠 He is such a narcissist, he cannot see how much I've matured and how my view of life changed for the best.
Just tell them you are the devil 😂 flip them off and walk away.
This shit still gets to me sometimes, especially since my father has told the rest of the family to believe that I'm being brainwashed by evil influences, like he absolutely cannot deal with my own agency so badly that he has to pretend I have none.
Or that you "never were a true believer" lol ots all so very manipulative.
Growing up as a female in a sexist society does this to you too. Sexual harassment, that sort of thing. Maybe an idea for another time.💜💜💜
Very connected to fundamentalist teachings. Church and society support each other.
As a woman who has survived patriarchal abuse and sexual abuse through a cult I don’t think this was an appropriate time for you to comment. You could’ve commented in the community tab. I feel like you waiting to address that under this video seems like you are just waiting on the next subject and feel the need to take up this space. As someone who feels this subject rarely gets talked about in day to day conversation, this is a much needed safe space and I feel it shows your lack of sensitivity and understanding of how difficult this dynamic is. I am not saying you can’t talk about what you want to, just maybe don’t make a cult video about women because all genders are affected by this gross misuse of power and sexual abuse can come from it (to all genders) and many Christian cults (especially) are patriarchal. Which is obvious to people who have been in a cult and left, whereas may not be obvious to someone who has not.
Memorywhole, I think your comment is well timed and quite appropriate. Well said. 👍💐
@@ImagineWavesCrashingScroll, woman.
@@GrannyLinnA lot of things are. Sexually harassment comes out of purity culture. You leave a religion to find freedom but find religious attitudes all around you in the secular world. The calendar revolves around Christian festivals which are based on pagan calendars. You are expected to be selfless and help people over helping yourself. This was enforced on us at inter volunteer large events where we get told the story of a table of food bymut all the spoons had long handles so people had to feed each other with them.
I know someone who takes this to extremes as he showers people with food and presents until he runs out of money and then goes to their homes for food. Or he never has a bag with him so asks companions to carry what he bought in their bag. He doesn't own an umbrella either so expects other people to share it with him. So he then goes the other way because he didn't buy things for himself or made sure he had them on him. Or he would buy friends food to eat when out with them without asking them first. So there would be the surprise panini or cup cake when you don't feel like eating (I rarely do at rock concerts or on the outward leg of a journey) but then he doesn't have enough money for a bottle of water or cup of coffee for himself. He was in the JWs for a while but never fully deconstructed.
I have said no to second dates after joining a dating agency but was told I still had to go through with them. I kicked up a fuss and left the dating agency after asking why the men can not ask for a second date.
This is because most people were religious a hundred years ago and forced to attend church as they was nothing else to do on Sundays without television or places of entertainment and shops open. So when they left religion they took the old attitudes with them into secular organisations. Or they had religion forced on them in state schools which was and still is in many European countries.
I grew up in a mixed marriage, reform Jewish. However, I got sucked into charismatic churches/fundamentalism throughout my twenties. I've been doing a lot of deep digging on this.
Thank you. I grew up /liberal/ Lutheran and am now a pastor in the same church. I didn't face an abusive environment but I think I wasn't always encouraged to set boundaries for myself. Now that I lead a congregation I feel it's an important duty to be aware of how the teachings can be used and to create a safe environment especially for those who don't have it at home.
How do you sleep at night being a Legacy of Martin Luther's Antisemitic Pamphlet that helped promote and ignite the Holocaust? How do you square your Christian Antisemitism?👀🚸🧸💑💌
That is very rare in churches even in 'liberal' ones where you face a different set of expectations than in evangelical churches but they are still restrictive and demanding expectations nonetheless. I have a Facebook friend who left fundamentalism for the UU denomination and finding other pressures there. So she left that too.
@@lemsip207 it's always a balance, I think, between individualism and collectivist expectations. I do believe having some communal values is good but I also think that needs to be paired with a true openness for questions and feelings outside of the group thinking.
@martah5369 I agree, but it's difficult to get that balance right especially with people expecting all or nothing from you. I will see a film at the cinema that is just OK to me or that I want to see or I don't mind seeing it again with a friend but will draw the line over a film I find distasteful or frightening. Then see the more obscure film I really want to see on my own. That's how I saw Napoleon Dynamite and A Beautiful Day in the Neighbourhood. It's about meeting people halfway or even better coming up with a win-win solution.
@@lemsip207 in my experience, expectations and pressure will usually come more from some people than others, and sometimes also from yourself. A community, religious or not, should be mostly safe but few places will be 100% free from all or nothing thinking.
We were a “looks good on paper” family, and church played a large role in that. Not exactly religious abuse for me, but more that the good things in the religion got used as shame tools. I believe in much of the same doctrine, and in many ways even more than when I grew up, but I struggle to attend because it triggers my PTSD from all the childhood trauma. Still trying to untangle the good from the bad.
Mormonism?
Hope you’re doing better ❤️
@@DayneTheMane Yep.
"Looks good on paper" I hear that! 😐
my dad started following a Hindu guru and raised me to think of the guru as God. Had me and my siblings convinced we had made a pact with God before we were born and only our dad could talk to Him. It was messed up. We’re all severely damaged. I started blogging/podcasting about the experience but it’s hard to make sense of it. These videos are healing. Thank you.
I hear a lot of white American buddhists also claiming their belief system is not a religion and is free from all this stuff. In the meantime, there is a temple in my town run by two buddhist nuns who have no rights whatsoever, cannot even purchase groceries at the local grocery store without an "approved list," and as women, are never going to be outside the "headship" of a male monk.
I really dig the point you made that nobody is watching me. And that I don't need anyone's permission to make my own decisions.
I'd love it if you made a full video just about healing sexuality. Growing up I never had a chance to go through what I think was a normal growth and exploration phase and I currently feel kind of stuck and helpless in that old mindset of sexuality being bad and shameful but secretly inside desperately wanting a sexual connection with someone else. And I guess I have an idea of how I can get that for myself right now but there has been an immense inner struggle/debate over it and feeling like going through with my idea would be catastrophic (instead of just maybe being good or bad or a learning experience), and also feeling like I do need someone to give me permission and tell me it's ok.
Then theres the past sexual experiences I have had where I didn't really know how to navigate them properly and ended up hurting the other person and I have a hard time separating that experience where I should feel guilty and learn from my mistakes from being told as a young man that I'm a bad person and going to hell just for trying to be sexual of having sexual feelings at all. I'm really angry that just being allowed to be was taken away from me when I needed it the most.
Thanks so much Patrick !!!!
For me, right now, religion is all about rules. I'm 60 years old and tired with rules.
Im a survivor. And tbh i never knew this type of stuff could damage people so deeply. This video makes me feel extremely validated because i have experienced every single thing you mentioned here. Im a hispanic that grew up in christian churches for my whole life until i moved from my mothers house. Theres something about the hispanics man…. They take it to the next level. Its traumatizing.
Ill share this memory i have from one of the first churches me my mom and Sister attended to.
The Church Name is “El Sendero De La Cruz” in Hato Rey Puerto Rico 🇵🇷
Its a memory that marked my life forever. Its scared me.
So, i was really young, at the most 11 maybe 12 i just remember being a child. The church had the main floor where the service would take place, and then it had a basement for like weeding or if the top got too full, you could go downstairs too.
This one time they had like a kids camp going on, and the ONLY thing i can remember about it was that they created this tunnel like thing, at the basement, out of cardboard boxes and plastic. They had red lights and smoke coming from the very inside of the tunnel. The whole point was for us kids to go thru it like crawling on our knees, and essentially the tunnel was a tunnel thru hell. They had people screaming on the inside, people crying out loud like they were suffering. Showing you what it would be like if you actually got sent to hell.
That is mental abuse to kids. Im 28 years old now and i cant forget that moment in life. Its scarred me so much and i know thats when my fear of going to hell became a real thing. An 11 year old kid with fear of going to hell and burning alive in a sea of lava with the souls of the people who had been dammed to just live there forever…..
Now that im an adult, man… that was some messed up and evil shit they did to us. And they knew exactly what they were doing…. If you brainwash them and traumatize them while they are young and undeveloped, probabilities are that they will control you for the rest of your life because it can be very hard to break away from stuff like this, specially when you are a kid and you abide by the rules that others make for you.
Hoping that one day i can get proper help and maybe leave all of the pain, confusion, fear and humiliation that comes along with it. Live a normal life…
Ps. I had equally traumatic experiences at other churches that we attended to… but at that point i was older, its the fact that they did that to us when we were young kids that i think should be highlighted.
Hope yall all have a nice day and keep strong!
Jfc that’s torture. It’s a haunted house vibe, which scares most adults, but to put kids through it is straight up cruel 😮
Anger and rage followed me for a long time after leaving my situation but it does get better after finding finally “ normalcy” in the regular world. Patrick is so right it’s a great joy to be truly free eventually, worth the difficult journey ❤️❣️Great words of wisdom here🥰
In the 90's I was sucked into the ICOC, left, and went back. I am out for good but live with the guilt that I raised my kids in that environment. Thank you so much for putting this out. I hope that someone who has not been sucked into the painful reality of a controlling, abusive, subversive will watch this before they go down that path.
The ICOC destroyed my already vulnerable and mentally unhealthy parents. They joined in the mid 90s and got shunned from the group around 2001. The cult itself and the rejection from the cult really made them miserable and I had to suffer from being raised by them. I’m glad you got out and are dealing with its impact. I rarely ever see ex-ICOC people!
Thank you Patrick soo much for putting out this video. I was raised in a third generation Jehovah's witness family. A friend of the family, a forty year old man, groomed and molested me from ages 7 to 9, everything out in the open, because he took his kids to the meetings he was trusted. Child abuse is a serious problem that exists within this cult, a very large cult of 8 million. Thank you for every one of you that has shared your story here, it's very brave of you all. I feel a little less alone.
I'm so sorry for what you have gone through. From one ex jw to another 💌
Thank you for this video you hit everything spot on. It was so difficult being raised as a Jehovah’s Witness. I’m recovering and finding my own way in life it feels good to be out but I feel so lonely sometimes. But hearing the comments of so many former witnesses helps me not feel so alone.
I was relieved to see that my phases of deconstruction are normal according to the phases you described. Thank you for taking the time and care to put this together, Patrick!
my biggest trauma comes from me being trans in a fundamental system. its really confusing because I know I was loved, but because of the dogma I wasn't loved or supported in the way that I needed to be and it was incredibly isolating. I couldn't even tell people what I was experiencing because it wasn't safe to do so. at best I would have gotten branded as someone to stay away from. at worst I could have been sent to conversion therapy or biblical counseling.
I definitely see you. Gender is different from sexuality, and I had a similar experience. Our pastor routinely addressed parents to look for signs of homosexuality and to immediately bring us to them so they could "help us before it was too late" 🏳️🌈🏳️⚧️❤️
Yes being trans in a fundamentalists cult was so damaging to me too. First of all I didn't even know words to label how I felt because I didn't even know other people felt like me. I just knew that the religion taught it was wrong to be a different gender than the one assigned at birth. And they went on and on about not dressing like the opposite sex. So I knew how I felt was not allowed and that they fully believed people like be did not deserve to exist. It was terrible. As I got older and started hearing more terms the only time anyone talked about trans people it was horrible and I thought I must be some kind of monster because I felt the way I did. It took me 38 years to come out of the closet and I'm still trying to heal all the damage done do I can love and accept myself as the wonderful person I always have been but wasn't allowed to be.
@@suzannep I feel a lot of this is also hypocritical, because there's a lot of religious people who also say "God doesn't make mistakes." I am an atheist, LGBTQ ally and hate that people will use religion to hide their own prejudices, when said religion often says very little or nothing about same sex relationships or not conforming to the socially accepted confines of your assigned gender.
You jumped from one cult into another one. Gender isn’t anymore material than God is. It’s just in your head.
@@ShintogaDeathAngelI agree wholeheartedly because when my mother found out I was trans she used that on me and deep down it just felt like a way to dismiss my feelings by saying if god is never wrong and I question something by god (such as my gender identity) then clearly I must be wrong. It’s just another way to gaslight people who fall outside their cookie cutter world view that they are always the issue
I spent many years in a fundamental pentecostal church, I've recently realised that the job I do (and have done for over 30 years) has been from a belief that God put me there so He could use me. It is a job that sees a lot of abuse (both in those I care for and towards me - I work in an acute mental health and addiction setting). As I have had therapy I have learnt that I don't deserve to be treated like that but that I can still choose it if I want to. The conflict is difficult (both internally and externally). Working through the things I denied myself because I thought I had to is painful. I have also found more acceptance and love from those not in the church than those in it, and I find that very sad
Some people join cults or coercive religious groups to escape their toxic family of origin that does not a religious basis to it. Essentially they go from a small abusive system to an ever bigger one. .
Incredibly validating. Thank you.i might share this with my therapist. Is that appropriate? I grew up Mormon and really tried for 20 years as an adult to be the perfect wife and mother and member. I developed perfectionism that engulfed my whole life and nearly killed me.
Glad you are finding help with your journey out of the church. Scrupulosity can be a huge side effect of being a TBM.
Was raised in the Latter Day Saint/Mormon religion, it brings me comfort that I am not alone. I would not trade my experiences, I love my life. The memories are hard to revisit, and painful to sit with and dwell on still. Thank you Patrick.
The hardest part for me was learning to survive as an individual without depending on a community. The separation was a mourning. I used to consider the religious community as one big family, something I still miss, I can't compensate for this need. For 20 years of my life I never had the opportunity to develop as an individual, I structured my being around living like a cog in a great machine. My personality was so crushed that I could not distinguish my desires from the ideas of the doctrine. Even today 10 years later there are moments when I ask myself "Is this thought mine, or is it what I was taught to think?". I still can't figure out who I want to be and what I want out of life, which makes it hard to set goals.
Same. I wish you the best ❤
Jehovah witness left at 48. Born in now I’m out and it’s been 4 years. You have helped me so much!!!!
Thank you for this! I was raised Southern Baptist and it was horrible. My parents’ ideas of “discipline” was to beat us as young as one year of age and simply call it “spanking.” It did permanent damage to our mental health!
Part of the reclaiming, especially in terms of self doubt, is not only about my right to make my own decisions but also about my right to make mistakes. In this system and family, perfection is the standard. Mistakes aren't simply mistakes; they are treated as nothing short of a complete failure of my salvation from my sinful self. Mistakes are big deals growing up and that creates the crux of the self doubt and anxiety with making decisions. So a big part of healing that has helped me is to recognize my right to make mistakes too. I can give myself that permission that I didn't have as a child to just be a human being, not inherently sinful, but inherently curious and adventurous, where happiness isn't sin but can actually be the goal. Trusting myself involves not just trusting myself to make the right decision, but also trusting myself to get myself out of the wrong decision. And then, eventually with time and years of making decisions, I've healed enough to realize there is no wrong and right decision and that is further part of the programming forced upon me.
Thank you for this video.
My abusive Mom was trying to cast a demon out of my 8 year old daughter last year, she had grabbed her by her foot as she was praying loudly for the demons to leave her as she was dragging her out of the bed as I was trying to get my 3 yr old to sleep (we were there for an overnight visit) 🤯
My daughter has PTSD from my abusive ex husband/her Dad strangling her.
We're no contact now!
I hope you and your children are safe nowadays.
I was insidiously abused by church leadership and the whole scene, then became, inadvertently, legalistic and self-righteous, then became one of the abusers, to my kids, and others. Not intentionally, but because I knew no other way(s), and worse, I wasn't open to other ways. Self-help books and "gurus" were unashamedly denounced from the pulpit, and well as other philosophies and truths, such as can be found in many Buddhist teachings. Over the past 8-9 years I've made drastic changes and, thankfully, my kids (26, 23, and 21 years old) see that, and it's helped in their healing journeys. So much more I could say about this subject. Thank you, Patrick 😌
Don't fall into another ancient faith/arbitrary system. They are all wrong, anti reason, anti individuality, and pro-Altruism and self sacrifice, almost across the board.
I keep waiting for you to talk about childhood trauma in foster care. I hope you cover this life path. You have insight.
I am watching this for the second time. This is the most accurate and helpful discussion of the JW upbringing. I feel understood for the first time. It was bad, but I’m still alive unlike my friend who hanged herself. Thank you Patrick, from the bottom of my healing heart.
ellegee4683 I am so very sorry to hear about your brother! Heartbreaking how many lives have been lost, taken, upended. The tentacles of the JW message are poisonous. 💕
My heart and prayers to both of you I am a survivor as well. I NEVER brought in to the JW religion it just felt wrong from my childhood. I was abused by my Patents who treated me like garbage because I refused the religion. I stood my ground and believe in my heart Jehovah protected me. That religion is not his way. We and many others have stories and could compare notes. I rejected the religion and embraced Jehovah. He is love. Nothing we experienced demonstrated that. Know God for yourself you will find peace in your hearts❤❤
Thank you for doing this video. I grew up and got married in a cult-like upbringing. The churches themselves weren’t too bad but my family would switch every time the church went against my family’s strict ideas. I went against everyone I ever knew to divorce my husband who was abusing me. I lost everyone but a couple of my friends, even ones I thought for sure would have my back. It was the hardest thing I’ve ever done but so worth it. So worth it.
I was assigned female at birth and raised in the Charismatic Christian "community" People of Praise in the 90s and 00s. My parents were community leaders and one of them worked at a People of Praise college prep school, which I attended.
Been trying to find resources on religious childhood trauma for *years* but there's just not nearly enough of it out there. I hope this becomes a more prevalent focus for therapists, because it is such an enormously complicating factor to common childhood trauma issues. I've done a lot of healing from the sexual abuse and neglect, but it only goes so far without being able to untangle the thought patterns and subconscious beliefs from intense religious indoctrination and grooming. Especially when complicated by autism or other issues that severely impact your abilities to intuitively understand yourself and the world around you.
Autistic gay here.
I fully embraced the ideology i was raised up in. It had me on the brink of suicidal tendencies for 15 years. I was taught and i fully believed how evil homosexuality was. It created 2 separate sides of me.
Autistic queer religious abuse survivors got eachothers backs in this world (though sometimes we mess each other up more figuring out our issues). I haven't found understanding many other places. It takes a lot of strength to survive that level of confusion.
Thank you for this one Patrick, of the traumatic events in my childhood religion played a huge role. An experience I will share, when I was 13 I told my mother I thought I was atheist (my mother was Mormon). Her response was to burst out crying and ran out of the house to who the hell knows where out of anger and sadness (like a kid). When she finally came back she lectured me. Then every single adult I knew who was in my mothers circle shamed and berated me for not "respecting" my mother. As if having a personal belief different than what she wanted is disrespect?? Haha. She went into straight denial after that and continued to force me to participate in religious activities until I was an adult. So there it is, instead of getting to know me as who I was, and who I was trying to become, she tried to ram me down the path she wanted me on. She chose the religion over me and hence the emotional neglect. I was almost never able to share my true opinions with her. While only one of the traumatic events of my childhood, I have to wonder how much better I would be, feel, and relate to her if she had simply tried to cultivate and get to know me for me, and not try to force the world to comply to her whims.
Thanks again
Great points in this video - Two books that helped me: Churches that Abuse and Recovering from Churches that Abuse by Ronald Enroth.
This was a great video and I can relate to a lot of the comments. The veil was only lifted after I got out. I felt frustrated at being duped and angry with the blindeye to all of the dodgy stuff going on.
Biggest challenge for me was/still is recreating a community.
All the best to everyone going through the journey.
In recovery "socializing doesn't feel like an agenda." WOW, this is spot on. I had so much anxiety about evangelizing as a child in every situation and felt like a failure if I didn't convert somebody. Not fair to a kid! Thank you for highlighting that.
LOOOOVE the traction this topic is gaining.
I love love love so much that more and more people are starting to deconstruct what we were indoctrinated to obey.
The internal healing I gained from leaving a cult that drilled into my head I'm lesser because of my gender is indescribable.
I 100% believe there is not a single female in any of these patriarchal cults that isn't traumatized on a deep visceral level.
Great video, I feel we don't talk about this enough. I grew up in a cult too, we couldn't have friends, go out, watch movies, listen to music that wasn't Christian, it was hell, it was a living hell. I find it difficult to have friends, because I wasn't allowed to have friends, that damage my social part and sometimes I feel alone. Those kind of things marks you for life. The construction was hard was the hardest thing I've ever had to do and I'm still in the process, but I feel stronger and I feel like I'm worth it, can you imagine I was about to marry a grown man as a 15 year old!!!!! with the blessing of my parents just because "hE wAs cHriStIaN" I felt so betrayed, I was depressed for so many years in my teenage years. I wish only the best for anybody who is going through this, I feel like I'm going to be deconstructing for life because I missed so many stages of childhood and my teenage years, I'm deconstructing, but I feel so much better now. I feel that you get what this is all about, you get so many aspects of religion and cults, and how that affects a human being. I like your videos so much and I learn so much with them. Thank you for sharing this.
I was tormented by the idea of eternal torture in hell as a child. The churches I was brought to loved using that threat to gain converts at the end of services. Saying if you didn't know without a shadow of a doubt then your heart wasn't right with god. There was so much that didn't make sense to me about fundamentalist Christianity and yet I was kept in a state of stasis due to the extreme threats of torture and violence that were commonplace in my community and home. Very early on I was scolded for asking simple logical questions about the existence of god and was told to be careful with my thinking and to not think I was smarter than god by my own parents. It's hard for me knowing my parents chose their own comfort by clinging to ideology rather than the comfort of their 5 year old child. Choosing to shame me rather than critically analyze their own beliefs.
Thanks for the video Patrick! I've been slowly deconstructing more and more over the past decade and it's often frustrating to me how deep the indoctrination and religious abuse goes. I'm in a much healthier space now, but wow has it been a difficult journey.
I grew up in a fundy household(first memory was a pro life rally), Baptist school, and Pentecostal church. So, I have the trinity of trauma as I call it. My dad was(and still is to some extent) controlling, and shame about purity and culture. While women and girls suffered the most from the patriarchy and purity culture, those of us who are LGBT suffered in our severe ways. The other thing was disorder in what should be an orderly system. Never knew what random dancing,prophecy, and spontaneous worship expression was going to happen(we even had a conga line a few times at church), and I never knew when my dad would blow a gasket. Combine that with developmental delay and childhood trauma of our home being entered and attempted to be entered, and I still struggle for that sense of safety and stability.
Thanks for sharing. I am still here at 40 deconstructing and literally finding myself as someone also on the spectrum. What many in my age group did in their late teens, I am doing now. I am still a Christian but no longer an attender. I want to attend somewhere again, but it is very hard to find a church that fits my hodgepodge of beliefs regarding Christianity.
When I bring up my trauma, I get “you didn’t live in Africa, we fed you. You had a much better childhood than I had. Then there was my favorite, “It didn’t happen like that.”
Everything you said about the religious nuclear family is spot on. Growing up in a fundamental Christian environment with parents who were neglectful, my life was intensely controlled. Everything I was influenced by had to be labeled “Christian” made my world isolated as I was the cardboard cutout my parents wanted me to be. Being abused at home and in the church even by my religious doctor made life confusing and caused so many mental issues that I finally dealt with as an adult now that I have deconstructed
I grew up in God fearing and guilt catholic environment. We always went to church every Sunday. It got worse when my Dad became alcoholic and gambled. My Mom became more extreme in her religious beliefs. She prayed 24/7. She would wake up early around 3am to pray 2x a day and goes to church everyday. I didn't understand then. She became more critical of me when I finally told her I didn't want to go when I was in my 20's and moved out. She would always lecture religious beliefs to me all the time. I mean everytime I talked to her. It made me more adverse to going to church. I kept telling her I don't need the lecture. It was hard for me to talk to her. She wondered why I didn't call her. I learned thru therapy that this was her way of dealing with her personal issues dealing with my Dad. My Dad became the same as he got older and stopped drinking. He got mad at me for the 1st time why I wasn't going with them to church. I was in my mid 30's! When my Parents passed away in 2020. I got confused and guilty that I didn't go to church. I am still learning how to let go of feeling guilty and thinking that God will punish me if I didn't go. It's a process for me.
One common denominator I’ve noticed in this comment thread and in life itself is how religion in itself has a lot of fear associated with it. That has nothing to do with faith and faith has everything to do with God. I find it to be true that majority of religious people really don’t have faith. Because if they stopped going to church, stopped tithing, stopped doing whatever they was told they needed to do for God to be pleased…. They FEAR the worse. I’ve been there and went through that in the past year after leaving a church I was a member of from 2015-2022. Not a family church, but one I joined in College. It was often accused of being a cult by members who would leave. I couldn’t see it for myself until I left and looked back at many instances of the pastor’s narcissistic, manipulative, controlling, abusive behavior. I highly recommend listening to “The Power of Faith” by Napoleon Hill here on UA-cam. They have free audios of the chapters. He hit it on the head and talked about how religion has used fear to bring people in and control them in many ways. Fear does a lot of damage and literally will have us manifesting that which we absolutely abhor. Because our thoughts really can create our reality. Hence, manifesting. Faith is absolutely necessary for this life, religion is not. And going to church is just one of many religious acts. Nothing wrong with going when it’s a healthy environment. But feeling the need to go to appease a loving God is not even true.
Thank you!
I have been questioning my faith. This is spot on. I didn’t realize how deep my trauma went until it suddenly all caught up to me. I am trying slowly to dissociate. Half of my family was torn apart because of “The Christian faith” my parents love the church and “God” more than us. The emotional neglect is really taking a toll on me. I have treated people poorly because because of their “sin” I am also scared of relationships and sex because it’s a “sin” I realized I was faking it and still am to please parents for fear of them punishing me. I am so scared. I don’t want to live in fear anymore. I need to start living.
I hope you're figuring things out and doing better now. ❤
THANK YOU FOR YOUR SUPPORT AND ARTICULATION.🎯
I was raised in a messed up catholic system. As soon as i could i broke with that and became protestant. Husband was raised pentecostal and i think it went even worse for him. We practice our faith at home. Institutions are not for us as they all seem to twist the gospel into something negative.
My Mom's family celebrated Christmas and birthdays.....until she turned 10 in 1944.....her mother joined the JWs and family life was never the same. There was already dysfunction....but things became worse once the JW cult entered the picture.
This video took a lot of guts to publish. Very important conversation. Thank you!!
I was half listening when he said "you'll go to hell if you don't subscribe" and for a moment I thought he meant subscribe to his channel and was like "well, that's some heavy advertising" for a second before hearing the full sentence.
Anyways, thank you for sharing this, this channel is awesome both for reference and introspection.
Thankyou so much for this video.Point by point,you summed up my life.
For me just to put it up here that i am an ex JW is very risky as far as repercussions go from the high control organisation. Ive lived with fear all my life since being born into the family/religious system you address in this video.
The layers of abuse run deep and still have a hold now as an adult.I still dont truly feel like i fit in anywhere. Still grieving the life that was lost to this 24/7 cultish existence of which you had no control. You either conform or you pay the price. You have the constant threat of losing family and friends if you dare to think for yourself and question the organisation.You will pay dearly for trying to break away.
From childhood onwards you live with fear of displeasing god as it means he will destroy you when he takes out all of wicked mankind!
You are taught that if you are not with god then you are against him ( on the devils side) which then means you are deserving of death at armageddon.
If thats not abuse, what is?
I'm just exhausted and i dont want to suffer in silence anymore.
@dagmarpilotti3884 exhausted sums it up perfectly. I faded years ago and will think I'm recovered then bam - my first instincts on something will be guilt/shame when doing perfectly normal, healthy things (say, taking my son to a birthday party - GASP, or commenting online somewhere). It.never.ends. Love to you, glad you're out also!
Great video ! I grew up in a Pentecostal Christian family. We grew up poor because my father would give all of the money to church. My mother would always remind my dad that charity begins at home. The final straw for me leaving the religion was my brother coming out of the closet and me getting in the military when the war started back in 2002. My mother hated the fact I got into military during wartime and spoke to the pastor who then told her that "maybe God's intentions was me to die". My brother on the other hand was treated horribly and was told he'd be disowned if he ever came out. What I learned in life is there are good people and bad people. Bad people love to disguise themselves as good people and manipulate people into thinking in order to be a good person you must do what they do.
I wish I had a therapist like you. You get it.
Wonderful truthful video. My sisters and I grew up in a Southern Pentecostal church setting. Alot of fire and brimstone preaching and misogynistic teachings against women. Fortunately we did not get caught up in that mentality, however we did experience so much childhood trauma from those experiences. Our mother still attends that same church and is deeply devoted. In fact, we just found out that she took my sisters and I off the deed to her house and replaced it with that same church. She feels that this church has been there for her even though my sisters and I have made roof repairs, bought her new appliances, kept food in her fridge, and attempted to have a healthy relationship with her, even though she was very abusive to us as children and young adults. At the end of the day, it's her house and she can ultimately do what she wishes, but we were very crushed at her blind loyalty. However this is not the first time she's put other people or things before her children. We have decided to go no contact with her at this point due to her aggressive uncaring behavior when we attempted to talk with her about our feelings. I believe that is for the best. Again insightful video that I shared with my sisters to help us get thru childhood trauma.
I've been out of catholicism for decades now, and it's wild how that old programming can still affect my mood or color my choices through a 'sinful' lens. I especially appreciated you naming the piece around deferring to men no matter what. I am still unlearning the reflexive "I don't want to be bad and reject him" narrative. It's worth pointing out that other societal pressures influenced that narrative as well, but it's worth examining how those societal pressures originated in the first place.