Religious Abuse and Cults - Childhood Trauma
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- Опубліковано 4 кві 2024
- In this episode, I discuss how the human experience around a religious or spiritual path gets wrecked by what systems and individuals model - all that and more!
Join me for Episode 7 where we explore "Religious Abuse and Cults - Childhood Trauma"
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I was completely dedicated and immersed in the Mormon church for 42 years, but finally woke up to the cult-like aspects of this organization and its incredibly harmful effects on me. Thank you for your work on this topic! It can be a sensitive issue for people still in these organizations, but those of us who are leaving and then naming the harm are so thankful for people like you.
Ex Mormon here. Waking up is exactly what it feels like. It’s like I was living an intangible dream and woke up to see color for the first time. 🎨
Yes, it is a cult. My eldest niece married a man who was raised Mormon. He left and was supposedly out. I was very concerned that she was marrying him as they are early 20s and he was barely out. I told my husband I was wary and to watch, they’ll pull him back in and she might get sucked in also. Everyone loved him and my husband thought I was completely out in left field thinking this. He eventually went to go work for his father and I said, “uh oh, it’s starting”. My husband still didn’t think so. Guess who was right? And the worst part is now she is pregnant and I’m very worried for them and their future child. I’ve heard so many stories of child abuse in this cult. Any advice?
Exmo here also and same.
@blueshoes915 Agreed that Mormonism is a cult (ex-mormon here) and there is an unfortunately high number of people who do return after leaving. That said, lots of people do leave for good. It is hard to get a clean break, tho, as most members have family or friends that are also members.
Anyway, the husband simply working for his father I would not consider a danger sign. I would watch out for her hanging out with a new social group, isolating or changing apparent beliefs about things for more conservative approaches.
@@blueshoes915 my advice is to love them unconditionally. No matter what, be their source of genuine, unconditional love. Mormonism is a worth based religion. Show them that they are worthy of love regardless. That’s all you can do. Confronting them risks them isolating themselves. I’ve been through all the phases, and I know that leaving has to be their decision.
Can we all please take a moment just to appreciate the Patrick has reached 671,000 people!!!!!!!!!! ❤❤
Finally accepted the fact that I have Religious Sexual Repression Trauma that gave me Vaginimus and makes me a sobbing mess in front of my partner of 10 years. Realizing that, and the fact that i have been so infatalized by religion and my parents abelisim, has finally given me the strength to "find my "fuck you"". After 4 years of therapy.
Wow the timing of this is uncanny! I have been very triggered back to a lot of religious trauma this week and I feel like it isn't spoken about enough as an additional factor on top of already toxic family systems. You truly are a gift, Patrick ♥
Same! Weird!
Shame based family; 98%% hypocrites!!!!!
Same. Confronting my parents about the religious trauma I endured as a pastor's child and how that relates to my queerness is a *this week* thing haha... timing! This discussion is helping me think things through ❤.
I was born into a tiny pentecostal fundamentalist cult. We were pretty isolated from the rest of the world, the media we were allowed to access was very limited, and we were all home-schooled, so we didn't really have any secular friends. We dealt with a lot of black-and-white thinking when it came to our dogma, and were severely punished when we didn't follow it to the letter. Beaten, mostly, but parents could get creative with their cruelty. They really viewed us as their property.
Nuance was something I had to train myself into with my thinking away from black and white thinking by reading self-help and philosophy books that I found difficult to understand at first. Then I realised that as I was learning to be more complex in my thinking in my 20s, I had been trained back into simplistic black and white thinking through church sermons and Christian literature.
I am so sorry that you went through all that!! Xxx
Thanks!
@leeannsummerfield3989 that is so generous! Thank you for supporting the channel. Patrick
whoa!! ❤❤❤
I highly recommend the book, “The subtle power of spiritual abuse” by David Johnson and Jeff VanVonderen.
Thank you!
I’ll check it out. Thanks for the recommendation.
… I checked it out. It is written by a pastor. No thank you. Hell to the no. I want to be respectful here but I know this book will trigger me 💯.
you never LIVED until you been Guilt-Carded by the Mother& 'father' of our Family,2 Toxins
I also like the book: when religion hurts you by Laura Anderson. I haven't finished it but I'm a good chunk through it and it's very good
@@xenonsan3110 I just went to her website and I love what I read there. Thank you❤️. I am totally going to buy her book!
So timely given the Ruby Franke journals
Did anyone else ever get set up as the “Spiritual Leader” in the family? I still love church now. I’m the youngest in my family my parents would always ask me to pray for them and ask for spiritual advice but then use it to manipulate me and say things like “what dose God think of you when you cut your family off” for me my church was the only safe place I had with “normal” ppl. It is where I found my self confidence again.
sounds like some odd form of parentification, where your probably emotionally immature parents turned to you, the child, to meet their spiritual-emotional needs of "I'm a good child going to heaven, right?" Sounds kinda effed up. And you, the child, were probably not getting the parental advice you needed to navigate the world but instead got the "oh, you're bad and going to hell" treatment.
I'm glad other members of your church were sane and gave you some healing.
I know I might not be accurate in my portrayal of your parents, but that's just the image that popped up inside my head, haha
You Go!! Deconstruction sometimes allow's for reconstruction of who you and what does GOD truly mean to/with you! 🙏🏾😊
Mormonism. Spiritual narcissism at its finest.
Grew up in the Mormon church.. Membership was taken away several years ago. Have so much to say about this topic but basically leaving was the beginning of my healing. 🙏😊
Thank you for this video, Patrick. I developed schizophrenia as a teen as a result of physical and sexual abuse from my pastor father. The cult I grew up in has contempt for schizophrenics and teaches that they invited the voices (evil spirits) into their heads by giving up on being moral people or experimenting with alternative spirituality. After my suicide attempt, my father quoted a book by a cult member saying that evil spirits get schizophrenics to do bad things so they kill themselves out of shame. I can't imagine saying something so cruel. Just yesterday some member of the cult reached out to my father to tell him that I was criticizing the church and my father on reddit. It feels terrifying and makes me so paranoid that I'm being watched even though I haven't been in the cult in years. My father said it's not good for me that I post my mistaken allegations online but really he is just terrified of people finding out about the abuse because he is looking for a job as a pastor in the cult. I've tried going no contact with him but he uses my sister to relay messages to me. Now my sister has gotten angry at me because I criticized the church. I will no longer let an institution get in the way between me and my inner voice.
I see you survivor.
I am so sorry that you were not protected!! You are so brave for speaking up! Well done x
My Grandmother was in a cult, if family members weren't 100% in, the cult said cut off all contact! But here's the thing... even when Grandmother went away from the cult, the estrangement continued.
Even more profound? The pattern of estrangement has continued in the family over multiple generations, no cult is now involved.
Oooooof! Grandma was so hardcore about Catholicism. She thought she had to make you feel bad - cuz it’s to help you stay on the path. Toxic. I had to keep distance. Family said: It’s a diff generation and I need to still go visit her. When leaving- why am I visiting a mean-bully that I’m related to? It goes deep.
Thanks!! ❤❤❤
Thank you for what you do, this video hit right on target. Raised in JW family and never knew anything else. Guilt and shame for leaving or being disassociated and being “dead” to family and friends among so much more traumatic practices for children raised by fundamentalist of the organization. Also being trapped in a very abusive family. I usually never comment on videos, but this one struck a chord. Thank you.
Thank you so much for this insightful and validating podcast. I’m a deconstructing Boomer who went no contact with my only sibling after my conservative parents passed away. He is heavily involved with IBLP and the quiver full movement. Everything you said are things I’ve personally experienced. Your content has added in immeasurable ways in my healing journey. Thank you!
I remember in junior/senior highschool kids saying that they couldn't read Harry Potter because "it's evil". A friend of mine whose parents were like that (completely controlled him based off religion). When he came out as gay in highschool, he did everything he could to do the complete opposite of what his parents wanted him to do. Definitely took it too far sometimes and got himself into a lot of trouble.
I think a good thing to also include is an understanding of complex grief with things like the old hymns, when we don't believe the things anymore, but the music hits an old comforting feeling and we don't really know what to do with that.
This comment really hits home for me :(
I've reframed a few of them for myself! I'll still hum the tune and try to forget the words or I'll even change the words so it sounds less church-y. Also just telling myself that I can like the hymm because I am choosing to helps out
When I went to church in my adult years, hearing hymns made me feel so sad and depressed it was all I could do to fight back tears. I was later diagnosed with CPTSD.
Thank you for addressing this very important topic. I was raised as a Jehovah’s Witness, and sadly raised our two daughters in this religion as well. I am, as well as my husband, from a large practicing family. An issue that continues to plague me, is forgiving myself and my husband for what we allowed our girls to suffer. I will not go into the details, but severe trauma was caused, especially to our youngest daughter. We have worked a lot on ourselves and on our relationships with our, now adult, children. They have offered forgiveness, and frankly, I am truly amazed by this. For me, I can never truly ever express my deepest regret enough, never mind being able to really forgive myself. How does anyone go about doing this? I would be interested in your thoughts.
Also, I must tell you how much listening to your channel has helped not only my family, but also my siblings, who have left the religion. I wish there was a therapist near me that specializes in your field.
Thank you Patrick, for everything. ❤
Oh boy. I grew up Mormon (a cult in my opinion) and I can pinpoint a lot of my willingness to stick with abuse throughout my life to growing up in such a religion. Thank you for this!
Fellow ex-Mormon here and I would agree it is a cult.
All organized religion is a cult by definition. (A cult is not necessarily negative by definition- the term is neutral.) There are only differences in how these groups will enforce the harsh rules of their religious documents, and how hard they will double down on other cultural values that they've brought into the groups.
Yeah I remember being forced to go to church as a kid. Once I realized that it wasn't for me I went through the motions just to avoid conflict. I remember I had been yelled at by my mom's ex boyfriend when I told him I just didn't believe in their Christian God. Now in my late thirties as a pagan and a witch I feel that I can just be myself without having to deal with them in that respect.
I make sure that my son knows his spiritual path is his own. I don't believe in forcing religion on anyone. For me it is deeply personal and not a pair of jeans you try to force yourself into. Some parents care more about their image than their children's feelings.
Gosh the way a perceived offense towards an abusive parent was treated as an “affront to God himself” ; no wonder my spirit was harmed. Anyone’s would. I just think of those poor children under abusive parents like Ruby Franke and other notorious cases. I hope we can all heal eventually
Eye opening! You didn’t bring up another aspect i And probably others experienced that is the hypocrisy when the abusive parent cusses and physically assaults you from the time you wake up all through the car rife to the church. I also was shamed for eyeshadow, not long enough dresses and not close enough to God to reap the spiritual rewards of others. I was taught secular music and other media. I was to spread the gospel to those lost souls going to hell without it. The book of revelations was used more than any biblical book to drive home the terror of being left with the sinners instead of going with God to heaven. I got very excited about my first summer camp only to get there and spend literally 8 hrs a day in a group being preached at. It was Sunday’s on speed. It also reinforced the sexual belief girls should br modest so as not to attract boys. No swimming or dancing together!!! I broke free when I saw such hypocrisy in my mother. She was a monster st home and a praise the Lord churchlady at home. I never bought into the insane belief system. I was forced but it did work making mr shameful, modest, afraid of that devil music and fearful the apocalypse was coming everyday anytime. Thais venting has been excellent theory. Thank you to anyone reading and feeling the pain I am sharing.
I didn’t grow up in a cult, but every example given in this podcast describes my parents to a T. Extended family members claim my mother was part of a cult, but when I asked her she said that wasn’t true. So idk.
I remember Waco. I was in jr high when that went on and we would watch it on tv in computer class.
This sounds so difficult. My husband was raised like this and would never be able to leave. It's all wrapped up in his NPD mask!
I had some good and bad church experiences. I think it was my narc parents take on things that was the main negative factor tho. The way they personally used it as a weapon on me. Twisting scripture and all of that to control me or incite fear or guilt trip me etc. This was mostly done at home as well as the particular narc parent’s house rules etc.
I also was abused by a narc mentor when I was a rather avid volunteer. (Music..and I did love it other than the abuse that was involved). That Jezebel (as I call her lol) did a lot of damage. But again, for me it was more like bad apples or wolves in sheep’s clothing rather than the church doctrine as a whole. But still they hurt me so bad that my personal spiritual sojourn alone (apart from any organized religions-which included a fairly long time of being entirely religious averse and being a “heathen” and finding myself in an existential crisis) lasted for about 12 years. I didn’t find what I was looking for either tho in “Rome” lol so I’m just trying to now make better sense of my true beliefs. But at the same time I feel like “going wild” was a necessary part of all of this. And also just now really getting to the crux of “giving a proper funeral” to my annihilated sacred dream (as per Jezebel). She murdered my “beloved only child” and that’s just not such an easy thing to get over.
Really loved the last part. Excellent. If we really want to know God then it is a very individual experience. We don’t need so much of “their” input about it.
I’m also slowly escaping a cult- it’s so so damaging. Thank you for covering this.
Wow! Being brought up both in a disfunctional family and in what I consider a cult, this resonates so much for me. If I ever try to explain my childhood and I can’t as I think that actually nobody will “get it”. Here you have even explained my reasoning to me….you’re explaining me to me. My mind is blown 💥 🤯 👏🏻 Thankyou 🙏🏻
Thx for all your education.🤗💖
Patrick when I have a flashback, often I just come to your channel, sometimes not even listening to the content (most times I do listen lol!!), just your voice and your dedication to helping people be better are soothing enough. Thank you.
So glad to see one of my favorites speak on this topic 💖
Recently woke up in my mid 40's to the fact that i was raised from birth in a cult (Jehovah's Witness). Between that and abusive parents, life has been quite the rollercoaster with deep valleys. Jehovah's witnesses have until recently demonized therapy and while "allowing" it now they still push theology as the way to solve mental health. Your videos have been very enlightening and helpful. In fact it was your videos that got me to finally see a therapist to work through the issues rather than just try and treat the symptoms through medication.
Thanks for this one, Patrick. My mother's family has generations of religious trauma. They were very devout Catholics and did whatever the church told them to do. My aunt got married outside of the church, and she was told to shun her daughter. She did for many years. My sister had stage four ovarian cancer. She was taught from a young age that if she "prayed enough" and was "good" God would answer her prayers. No one was as devout as Mary Pat. I think she was scared and so she hid her cancer from everyone until it was too late. Her death was brutal to watch as my mother and other sister prayed non-stop expecting a miracle. My grandmother lost two siblings in early childhood. Apparently, they believed my grandmother's sister had died because of a bad omen, and that her brother had died because a neighbor had fed him a spoiled peach.
I was abused by a priest, as were two of my sisters (one of them was my sister with ovarian cancer). I had a drug and alcohol problem afterwards and tried to kill myself several times. Some of my family members took the church's side, which was very painful. Fortunately, I have been sober for a very long time. However, I had suffered from crippling anxiety at times when I would be under stress. It was only recently that I was able to really allow myself to process the anxiety fully and heal from it. I recently lost a close friend from college who also had a substance abuse problem. He got involved with doomsday prophecy and became extremely paranoid. Sadly, Neil never did get sober, and he recently took his own life. Neil, like my sister was one of the kindest, most generous people I have ever known. Religious abuse causes so much damage. For me, it caused much more damage that alcoholism and all the other family dysfunction I was raised in. I found comfort, validation and hope in listening to this podcast. Thank you for all that you do.
Yes. Both sides of family this is used and weaponized when anyone questions certain members of the family. You are not giving "grace" or holding a "grudge or being unforgiving" to toxic family members that shame family members publicly if they are called out on anything
Weaponizing religious teachings regaring being charitable, covert narcissist mom translates it by using examples of neighbors and family members that got cancer and similar illnesses as a sign of not being charitable enough and that saving money is hoarding and it should be shared, even though she frequents casinos...
It's not hard to indoctrinate and shame kids as they grow up into such beliefs, its harder to get out of that and see the bigger picture.
This is an excellent breakdown! As someone who was born into a cult, but now out of it and still wanting to redefine my faith, this was like a breath of fresh air. I feel like a lot of times when talking about deconstructing people often throw out everything. I like how you said we can decide what resonates for us. That is beautiful. Thanks so much for this very important topic!
Same for me. Not a cult per se for me but some wolves in sheep’s clothing within it that really messed me up. I almost threw out the baby with the dirty bathwater but I just couldn’t Bcuz all that bad stuff was mixed in with some real connections with my God. Well lol. Only took me about 12 years so far but I am getting pretty good by now at deciding what was the good stuff and what was a load of crap.
My family growing up in the Noi which was a cult along with a toxic dysfunctional home environment. My parents never hugged us or said I love you, neither was there any encouragement or positive reinforcements for us, my father is a narcissist and my mother was a trauma bonded codependent. I don’t remember them really teaching us anything. My siblings and I left home confused with a lack of identity and self esteem. I ran the streets when I was a teen because my home life was so toxic. I later got involved in a narcissistic codependent trauma bonded situationship and joined what I didn’t know at the time was a cult. I have been trying to work on my trauma by myself, but I’m starting to realize I need professional help at this point.
This is amazing. Exactly what I've been thinking in my mind but not knowing how to put it in context. I've seen manipulation and abusivebess in the church. I'd decided not to be involved in a church for exactly these reasons. I've still been having a difficult time with becoming who i truly am due to the shame and guilt of "going to hell". Even though my personal journey has pointed directly to it not being true. This with toxic family system, I realize has been 2 components of being o dependant and trauma. I'm still fighting the indoctrination. It's hard but I so appreciate you speaking about this!!!!! THANK YOU!!!!!❤
This is exactly what I needed… as someone with religious trauma, this is one really good to listen to. Thank you for putting this together for us 🙏
I grew up seventh day Adventist and in a super toxic family system and we were obsessed with end times and keeping the sabbath holy!! we belonged to the one true church 😩😩😩!! everything you’ve described is spot on!! I’m NC with my family and left the church a few years ago!! Deconstructing is so hard because it messes with your sense of identity but it is also one of the best things I’ve ever done!! Thank you for your content Patrick!!
Great breakdown and good timing in light of the child abuse/murder news in Utah and Idaho as of late.. Thank you for sharing. Peace.
Don't forget the Jim Jones story also🤔💖
Thank you for this Patrick. This helps me understand so much about my ex and how she was raised in a fundamentalist church.
I needed to hear this so badly..Thank you ❤
Thank you for this, even before I watch. I was only in for 3-4 years but being a Mormon was horrible traumatic for myself a queer neurodivergent person. I'll have to listen tomorrow.
For Every possible reason in this world, Thank You for this completely on every level. Every word. The weight I physically feel on my chest lifted listening to this. I hope it sticks. Thank You So Much Patrick 💜
Thank you for sharing. I am glad you chose to talk about this
My ancestors came from Finland and brought with them the generational religion and mostly conservatism.. So not only being part of a religious cult its enmeshed with my genetics and culture. Then I married into a Catholic Polish dominant family and the clash between the two has been extremely difficult. Could write a book!
This definitely helped put into perspective some of the crap I was raised with in evangelical circles. It's weird because I officially parted ways with religion like 8 years ago almost, but even now I feel a lot of guilt around reclaiming my own autonomy. I was even talking to my therapist the other day about something and they were like "you know, sometimes it's ok to just tell yourself OTHER PEOPLE CAN BE WRONG" and I think I short circuited. Because for so long I just assumed someone in a position like who's a boss or who's been in some group longer or even who TALKS like they know more just automatically is the authority on something and I shut down. But of course that's ridiculous. Those things don't automatically make people correct and I'm allowed to disagree with what they think (even if it's maybe trickier to do OPENLY with a manager or something 😅). It's like WHY AM I STILL ACTING LIKE GOD GIVES CERTAIN PEOPLE ULTIMATE AUTHORITY. Sometimes I drive myself nuts. Also thanks for highlighting how religion scapegoats trans people lately. It's hard to be the target of that while SIMULTANEOUSLY unpacking all the transphobic baggage you accumulate and internalize growing up in those systems. That's definitely been a big hurdle for me. Working through that shame is like shoveling 3 feet of snow off a driveway.
Thank you for this video! It makes me feel understood.
Thank you for this. It really helped.
Thank you. I really appreciate the work you do. Wishing much love, strength, and gentle healing to everyone doing this difficult work ❤
I needed this today, thank you so much for talking about these really polarizing topics. I can’t wait for more voices on this topic, and the healing that can come from it 💜
Good knowledge. Thanks
These podcast episodes have been so wonderful. Thank you for sharing healing stories with a fun attitude ❤
Thank you for including the lack of societal knowledge. We left a fundamentalist group when I was in fourth grade, in the early nineties. I have no ties to the cultural aspects of the 1980s. None. For example, I was in college before I realized "goonies" was not a food. It can be really isolating. So much of communication is shared cultural knowledge.
I listened to this because I just absolutely love your work. You have such heart and deep compassion and honesty. I had no expectation it would apply to me having been raised essentially agnostic/uninvolved.
About 2/3 of the way through it something really caught me off guard. Almost everything about the system applied directly to my experience in my medical career. Getting shamed for standing up for what you believed in. Humiliated for mistakes, or for your humanity (I got sick a lot, have ADHD, etc). Publicly called out to be made an example of. Both times I was ousted by the system, I was shamed and utterly erased. People who used to be my friends, almost my family wouldn't even talk to me. Years later they still don't.
Feeling guilty about the whole fucking mess because unlike people forced into these cults or religious systems - "I was dumb enough to dedicate between a half, and a third of my life trying to be a part of it, only to be cast out".
Holy hell.
Also by the way one of the most profound cognitive transformations I've ever had was because of your statement, also in another video, about inner child = limbic and inner adult = PFC... One of the deep conflictions internally was that being a child, acting like a child WAS THE PROBLEM, so it's clear the solution is to not be a child anymore. Not only should I suppress the feelings and behaviors associated with "childishness" but obviously I should not be "nurturing an inner child". I wanted that healing so bad but it seemed like bullshit and so contrite to "nurture an inner child" it was acting like a child in the first place that got me in trouble. And with one damn sentence the entire wall of self-hatred burst.
Absurd. Beautiful. Thanks for your work. Peace and love to all who are here doing the work. If you're hurting, remember you won't always feel like this!
I love love love this format, just straight talk radio. Turns the stimulation down, i can hear the whole message. Bless you!
Thanks for noting that we can refer to the prefrontal cortex and the limbic system instead of inner child/adult! That's super helpful for me as I really enjoy having a precise image in my head of what's actually going on. And thank you for talking about an unsafe/unstable MIL from a fundamentalist system - I am dealing with that, and often feel like the crazy one because everyone in the family defends her abusive behaviors, makes excuses that she has "anxiety" and that's why she's abusive. I am going to listen to this video several times and take notes so I can not fawn or get retraumatized any time I have to interact with her (which is rare).
Hi Patrick, I commented that maybe a "ghost" profile could suit me. This video is soo susinct and relatable to some of my cptsd.
Thank you. Thank you!
I appreciate what you do for anyone abused, even when where is not a personal experience for me in those places. Let me know when you’re into the K-12 education CSA abuse for the last century. I’ve been listening to to the abuse in all the different places by all the different experts in other peoples situations just to survive those years and it’s actually triggering me because nobody’s talking on topic of k12 institutional abuse & all the professions that have roles in it.
Minute 27:25-27:35
Yes the JW’s / Watchtower most certainly do 😂 🧠 🧼
I’ve been out of that nightmare for a long time, but the recovery has been ongoing and although I originally came to your channel because of healing from narcissistic abuse and cptsd, I find it amazing how your work helps me address so much of my adult life entanglements with narcissism to my childhood and this topic is not easy to address which you have continued to balance clarity in your execution. Just wow. Haven’t even finished listening, but will! Well done so good! Thank you 🙏
another video that is about what i'm working through right now! (video request at the end of this post) so grateful to Patrick for uploading all of these topics. i sort of bounce around diff videos as im working through different issues. this channel is such a resource. even use it to help me bring things up in therapy.
video request:
Patrick, if you see this, thank you, but also a video request: can you talk about the trauma of sexual abuse as a child? my neglectful parents put me in a situation where i was abused pretty badly at age 5 and again from 11-13. all bc no one was checking in on me. and they left me alone with older cousins and men who took advantage. i know that's a biggie topic. i don't know what exactly to even ask to be addressed about it, but the guilt, shame, anxiety, fear and never feeling ok with myself has been an issue that comes in waves throughout my life.. sometimes it doesn't bother me, sometimes i feel like a filthy piece of trash even at age 46. sex is never something i've been able to be totally ok with. i even flinch when doctors touch me. i get scared to be hugged bc i used to get felt up at age 13 by a 69yr old friend of my parents. trust issues. etc. it's something difficult i really want to work through.
i also developed a strange coping skill when the sexual abuse started at age 5... ive had imaginary friends ever since that i talk to to this day. they help me work things out and support me and care about me and i care about them. i know they don't exist, but i also can't do without them bc they help so much. i rely less on them now as a 46yo than i did as a 5yo. i've heard of this from other trauma victims but don't know a lot about it. i know it developed bc i was being sexually abused and also because i was completely neglected or alternately abuses by my mother, especially. and yes working on it in therapy, too, just wondering if anyone else has heard of this or if patrick maybe has any insight. it's weird i know. it's definitely not schizophrenia nor multiple personalities. i'm well aware they don't exist but they're a big crutch for me. i talk out all my problems or if im in a difficult situation i can imagine they're with me and coaching me. it's kinda like how people use god in their lives, really.
I haven’t watched this yet but I need it so badly I don’t even know if I can start. I’m already crying.
Yesterday I wrote down a question I have for you related to this. It is so hard.
I was forced to be raised as a JW. It was hell, and to see how the cult validated and was used as an excuse for the abuse made me incredibly angry. The fact that my mother still hates christmas and birthdays is really triggering when they are incredibly happy moments that im finally able to do with my kids and hearing her talk about them like awful sinful events just makes something inside me tense up. JWs plainly advocate for CA, and hide CSA offenders. I was abused for things as ridiculous as what they thought I was thinking in my head, down to taking a shower or having a private diary. Its no surprise that I had ED and major depression starting from the age of 8. I have a child that age right now, and the just concept of her feeling like that is honestly terrifying. I think a lot of older millennials get criticized for having “iPad kids” but they dont see how being coming of age during the recession and having CA being totally normalized made us want to be the exact opposite for our kids.
I did not grow up in religion…at all…but grew up in alcoholic family. But as a kid - maybe 10 or 12 years old, I started having a feeling I should be ‘going to church’ or I would be punished. This was not from my parents. It was from school in a small town where most families were associated with a church but I was not connected…so my friend wanted to go to a church that is a main stream Christian church especially in the south…we were in Texas…so I went with her. People there helped me to go to college at one of the colleges that was affiliated with that church, and I willingly went into being a part of all that was related with that religion. It felt safe at the time…people felt loving and accepting…but after college, I moved to the city and began to work and go to an affiliated church and I began to fall into depression, anger, isolation…and the people of the church began to push me away (because I was not perfect) and you would not believe the shaming things they said to me. Then I began to do counseling and understand slowly but surely what messages I was getting (and willingly taking in because of the similarity with the messages from my family) and it has been 30 years since I left, but I still have these tiny moments when fear hits me that they were right and I need to be doing things ‘right’. Have had to separate myself from some college friends from that time who still try to get me back by using the old guilt and shame. It has been a huge problem in my recovery!
I attended the SSPX for a large part of 2018-2020. Never finished my preparation to be recieved into the Church, because my trauama was triggered every 6 months just by attending the parish. Even though there was some very lovely people there, whom I still consider close friends, the majority was so triggering that I couldn't will myself to attend masses anymore, or talk to the priest, and have avoided it since. I still believe the catholic faith is the true faith, but I cannot reconcile with what it expects me to accept and do. Don't know how to solve that tbh, am at a standstill spiritually, cohabitating with my bf etc...
Not all religions are cults, obviously! There are good and not-so-good folks at any social gathering... I've been pretty triggered just going to some sporting events! So, you do have a choice about how much you let it affect you. Judgmental people are just that and nothing more - they are not actually your judge - so you are free to take or leave it; but don't miss out on a good religion because of some of the lesser members in it! Love!
Religion was weaponized against me growing up. I have a lot of trauma from it
Living with narcissists is like living in a religious cult
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If possible, would you mind doing a video on emotional delay and if anything can help?
I've experienced this in more holiness/fundamentalist churches, however the Reformed church of my grandparents was much more realistic in expectations, maybe its the Calvinism but no one was forced to believe since it was totally up to the individual and parents knew it wasn't their decision, it was Gods. I would say theres plenty of churches that still believe that Gospel without demonizing "others", as its not up to us who is saved.
However theres definitely calvinistic churches like john MacArthur whice done horrible things and I'd say it has more to do with the lack of safety in a Baptist/congregationalist church with nowhere to appeal compared to Presbyterian/Reformed.
Do you have any tips on interactions with family who are still within those symptoms and who now act as though there's something wrong with you for not believing in those religions?
How do you know this.
Im glad i found this today… someone who understands feels good….but how do i fix this now? I still have problems fitting in. Its been years and i just dont get it…
Thanks for speaking about this, Patrick. Describes the SSPX perfectly. 👌🏻
I attended the SSPX for a large part of 2018-2020. Never finished my preparation to be recieved into the Church, because my trauama was triggered every 6 months just by attending the parish. Even though there was some very lovely people there, whom I still consider close friends, the majority was so triggering that I couldn't will myself to attend masses anymore, or talk to the priest, and have avoided it since. I still believe the catholic faith is the true faith, but I cannot reconcile with what it expects me to accept and do. Don't know how to solve that tbh, am at a standstill spiritually, cohabitating with my bf etc.
Yep
So incredibly helpful. Thank you so very much.
I went to an anti-Halloween party at the church with my friend in the early 90s. They locked us in the old hall (which was spooky and cold and had outside toilets) and then played us a video about satanic cults and the things they do at Halloween. Featured on this video were images of a dead little boy who’d been cut all over and an interview with a woman who said she’d been ritually raped and made to sign in her own blood that she’d never tell anyone. I was obviously upset the next day and told my mum, who had a great habit of seeming to say the right thing in the moment and then switching her position later. She said the video was probably designed to scare the teenage boys (which in my mind still doesn’t justify showing it, but anyway) and that she’d speak to the church leader who had organised the party. Around a week later I asked if anything had happened about it and she said scornfully that this man was far too busy to be dealing with the minor issues of children and everyone else had forgotten about the event and I should do the same. Another time I was with the same friend at a church sleepover and we were playing an innocent childhood game and a woman came in and told us all we were devil worshipping, terrifying us. As an adult, I recognise that this woman is mentally ill and should never have been in charge of children. It’s actually funny how many things me and my sister thought might be devil worship and how constantly scared we were that we were going to hell. My mum would still gaslight me that these things didn’t happen but I know they did. As a child you don’t have perspective and your perception of reality can be really tenuous.
Religion was never really a part of my trauma but I am incredibly triggered by someone who is part of the Mormon Church. There's been a public childhood abuse case that has ties to the Mormon Church. Interesting to see a top comment that also involves the Mormon Church.
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When I left religion, I had to learn to like people as they actually were rather than seeing their potential and what I could turn them into. So I would list the good and bad things about people in my life and was surprised to see that there were things about people I liked other than their willingness to be moulded. To no longer treat them as a project.
For example, some activities that you enjoy together at present rather than ones only you enjoy that you hope they would get into at some time once you have worked on them. Being dependable and not being flakey is overlooked as a good trait in a friend but we miss it when it is not there.
If there is nothing you liked at all about your friends, there is no point being friends with them, but fundamentalist Christians consider 'befriending' them as a 'cross to bear'. They also don't appreciate the minor virtues in their friends and consider those to be basic human behaviour.
At 47:24 you talk about how you can be your own spiritual individual, but what if your parents were their own personal cult of fundamental Christianity actually because of the verse in 1 John 2:27 (As for you, the anointing you received from him remains in you, and you do not need anyone to teach you. But as his anointing teaches you about all things and as that anointing is real, not counterfeit-just as it has taught you, remain in him). They truly believed with everything they were that our tiny little family of 4 was so intensely anointed by God that we secretly had spiritual radiance that would blind lesser Christians if only they knew the truth.
Needless to say this is not even remotely my belief system anymore, but it has been remarkable how difficult it is to tell myself that the spirituality I have now is ok, because I literally have no idea if it is or not - all I know is that my spiritual path now doesn't harm anyone and is a vast departure from how I was raised (mostly on Chick tracts lol)
Any of us out there who went through our parents being the cult leaders, good on you coming this far to even have access to a comment or a video like this. Well done. You are very brave.
Infiltrating day centres and pretending to be a user who needs the place in order to 'befriend' people they dont like.
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Sounds like MAGA
Steven Hassan is a cult expert who wrote a book called “the cult of Trump”. He’s currently quite worried about unethical influence and mind control taking place in extreme right wing politics
Cults don‘t care about political sides. MAGA is a cult, so are other political organizations that lean a certain way (right or left) and every other organization that displays cultish behavior. They can‘t be questioned without you (as the one who asks) getting attacked and vilified by them.
Both sides of our political spectrum in the U.S. have become extremely polarized. You are forced to pick one or the other then ostracized based on which side you pick. Just like getting shunning from leaving a cult.
@sarahherr7601 Yes, there is forced teaming on a lot of issues, so if you take a certain stance on one issue, you are expected to take the prescribed stance on another issue.
Extremists shoot down people who don't take an extreme stance on an issue more than they do to the other issue.
@@sarahherr7601I only see one side infiltrating the capitol and being aggressive more so than the other side. You’re making false equivalencies where there isn’t one.
Oh shit! He called the Mormon church what it actually is! Between them and the Scientologists, you're gonna have a lot of fun of they catch wind.
Thank you for all your amazing work. Btw, Zionism is secular (non-religious), a movement for (originally) the re-establishment and (now) the development and protection of a Jewish nation in what is now Israel. It was established as a political organization in 1897 under Theodor Herzl, and was later led by Chaim Weizmann. It is a secular movement created to help create a safe space for Jews who are under threat generally. Ultra Orthodox Hassidic groups and some Hareidi groups within Judaism (a small minority of Jews) have many cult like fundamentals which you describe.
And most of them are anti-Zionists, interestingly enough.
It shouldn't be this easy to guess your politics. I am an atheist.
Yeah, since US politics nowadays basically comes down to “brainwashed” vs “not brainwashed,” it’s pretty easy.
Thanks!