Thanks for the upload dude - should've just won this game going into CA but didn't realise how bad Abbassid Castle Age boats are XD water feels so unbalanced but whatever. Wonder was my only chance and I realised after the fact I should've just made 2 siege works and made some stuff. My plan was just to bank res and repair, only realised during this game when repairing buildings its not like AOE and you need wood not stone to repair keeps lol
Yeah, water balance definitely needs a lot of work. I have played water only once in the stress test, but in the beta I had a few similar experiences when playing as Delhi, where I had vastly superior numbers (or straight up won water in feudal), better economy, but still got pushed back as soon as castle age navy started coming out for both sides (even when I was the one reaching that point first and outproducing).
19:17 omg is it just me or he moved the fishing boats up to distract him from his other boats thinking he was going to sneak in a explosive one???? Top level plays my god
I hope they will improve the spawn of fish so that is more fairly distributed. Also, the deep fish should be bigger on the map. Right now those deep fish spots are so small and almost look the same size to that of the shore fish. Other than that, the water maps look quite interesting
Think big ones should have whales or something swimming and have a much larger clicking area like in Aoe 2. Otherwise everything about the sea gameplay in Aoe4 is the best in the series so far. happy to see it.
@@Jacob-lv9ll Makes a lot of sense actually, before fossil fuels, we were on out way to causing an extinction of the whales due to the demand for whale oil
Isn't it? This confirms my suspicion that AOE4 does not have balanced map generation like AOE2 and that is something they should really look into. I observed the same thing with two other land maps.
Viable? In team games Wonders were straight up OP. Basically every 4v4 I played during the test was just a race for who could build a wonder and have teammates wall it in. If Blue had created any military at all he could have stalled for 4 minutes and easily won despite losing 90% of the map.
@@orkhepaj well from the moment he placed the wonder and his first castles he had 5 minutes for additional preparations, maybe I don't understand the game enough yet but I doubt he wouldn't have been able to anticipate the bombards and at least put out anything other than the siege cannon on his first castle that being said the water being so vastly unbalanced was stupidly unfair, usually a civ with half cost docks would be arguably too strong on a water map but it didn't matter I think a lot boils down to repairs being too fast, the civ with the bigger, more defensive ships always has a huge advantage that way
@@brohvakiindova4452 why not? Clearly bombards were needed to destroy the protecting forts and wonder in time, it was very clear the enemy will bring bombards agree with the water , water snowballs , the side which gets the upper hand will just dominate it we will see if something can counter it ,but even those fire ships doesnt seem to be able to do the job
Fishing boats should have 2 small sails, that would make them easy to read. Maybe even get the model 10% smaller so they don't look so bad when they are clumped together
It would be interesting for transport ships to be able to board enemy ships with the troops they have on board. Melee ship fighting was the way to go before the advent of cannons.
I like these matches where there are alternate victory conditions. Having 'destroy your opponent's landmarks' only doesn't allow for scenarios like this
@ 19:40min Drongo gave Hut a hard time about the fishing boats, but the move was so big brain even he missed the demo ship hiding in the group. Smart move sending the additional fishing boats along as decoys..
and people always tell me that starcraft has the best e-sport shows. Age of empires beats it to the dust due to the so many variated ways one could pull out a victory, or simply change the entire pase of the game.
My guess is that at 19:17 HuT is hiding the explosive Dhows among the Fishing Boats since they look very similar. And with more boats that looks similar the sails could potentially block the sight of the other player to see the deck of the explosive Dhows, which are filled with bombs, and hence making it harder to distinguish them.
Awesome game, so tense from beginning to end! I really enjoy watching water battles in this game, something I never really did for AoE2. Excellent commentary here too, taking the time to explain things like units and upgrades!
I'm so hyped for the full release and at the same i can't help but to feel anger that my other favorite RTS seems to never be coming back.. c&c I miss you so bad
Short answer is I think they were mostly busy with or recovering from RBW5 during the stress test weekend. But they will also have to weigh if they want to make the switch or if their strength remains with AOE2. Similar to Broodwar vs SC2 transition era. I'm sure they'll all at least try AOE4 though.
God, that was intense. Hoinestly i can see Wonder Victories being very viable on tight maps like dark forest, you just wall up the choke points, make sure you don´t consume the wood-wall and you should be good.
Yeah, they are much more expensive though and take up more pop space for each ship. Think it was 3 pop for 1 ship, and the imp age cannon ships take up 5 or 6 pop for each ship.
Nations to add that would be cool with this setup: Bizantium: diplomacy rules: They're diplomats were epic.. Give them India's AOE 3 ceasefire bonus? Perhaps add some things? Ethiopia: I have no idea Italians----- ( Choose a city-state theme as part of civilization gameplay; Venice gives x benefits, Milan is y benefits, etc.)
@@SanctuaryLife aren't the Frank's already in the game though? Lol.... And it really wasn't surrendering: give them the ability to DEFECT to the other team instead 😅😅😅
5:28 was the same in any aoe game really i'm so happy they keep the tradition to fuck up the water figth to make it as borring and linear it was back 1990. sorry for the sarcasme but yeah i'm disapointed they didnt take the hint there.
Why go culture wing first if you don't pick up preservation of knowledge until after imp??? Edit: he also just needed like 2 cluverin to hold off the bombards long enough to win
Can someone please explain something to me. If I am not mistaken, it was announced earlier that the red team already had his wonder. How come wonder victory conditions did not start until blue built his wonder?
This thumbnail reminds me of when Blizzard was clickbaiting about "pro players" in the first week of the SC2 beta when they put out showmatches with some people I had never heard of playing any tournament
It bugs the crap outta me when I see people say that Age4 is basically Age2 but with better graphics. Chat was arguing a bit about this in the video around 5:00. They also debated how similar 4 is to 3 vs how similar it is to 2. By the time you're getting this deep, you might as well spend your time defining what Age4 is _without_ leaning on the previous games to describe it. I understand why people make the comparison. It's Age _4_ after all. And there are obviously similarities. It just seems unproductive to get so deep into the comparison in an effort to define what Age4 is, especially when you're critiquing its flaws and its virtues.
wonders are great for 1v1's but team games the cost should scale up with the amount of players, the maps get a lot bigger and it takes nearly half the time just to move across it you hardly have a chance at taking it down
Agreed. Basically all the 4v4s I played ended in a camper building a Wonder in some corner and teammates walling it in. Unless you already have trebs nearby it’s basically hopeless.
nice game. Had to check several times if i hadnt put video speed to 1.5 though. Great youre capturing age 4. This seems to become such a blast on release. Got to get some holiday in i guess ^^
I like the idea of fishing boats healing. I just picture the boat rolling up to the war ship and the fish crew nailing up wood panels to keep her floatin' :D
me and friends do this online, one guy builds it, while the remainder of the team builds a base and fort around it haha most times our opponents quit, we got it down to a science
@@partydean17 Played a match just 2 nights ago where the opposing team had the same strat, it became a stalemate for a bit but huge wars once the timer was running out!
What if fishing ships can only heal for as much fish as they have on their boat. That way the healing isn't a finite resource and the battles can be more dynamic. Maybe even having a steady stream of rotating fishing ships for consistent replenishment. Hmm 🤔
did drongo not know that holy roman empire docks get double healing?, but what I did not know till I saw this vid that fishing boats heal mind blown!, this whole game was blowing my mind though great cast :)
i assume a wonder will trump holy sites captures right? Like what if he already captured the two holy sites first and then HUT built the wonder... what takes precedent?
Do you have any another channel that is dedicated to Starcraft 2 cause I would love to subscribe to that too :) Great videos and amazing commentary, man
That was a good game. One of the things I've never liked about the AoE2 scene is turning off relic and wonder victory. They don't come up much but it should at least be an option.
Honestly I thought Frank could've won if he utilized his economic bonuses more Also would've loved to have seen him utilize the keep's unit cost bonus a little more because I think that's what did him in I applaud Mike for his skillful use of the nest of bees and the fire lancers to target Frank's landmarks although he definitely fielded an impressive army we didn't get to see his economy as much and I wonder if he took full advantage of the Imperial academy granaries and Imperial officials I also would've liked to have seen Mike deploy the great variety of Chinese ranged units because I believe that is China's core strengths militarily
It's rather nitpicky but it kinda bothers me how some units are animated. Villagers and Men at arms in particular are suuuuper slow. If they had more oomph in their animation would add some much more to the general atmosphere. SC2 Units in comparison are so much more lively for example
In Cossacks European Wars a game released in 2001 fishing boats actually go to the sea and fish.. and in AOE4 in 2021 fishing boats make up a star-shaped formation and fish from a given dot without even moving or doing anything to be frank. This is where we are... gaming companies shitting on their customers. Not even mentioning graphics which are really close to AOE3 that came out when, around 2004? Pathetic. And this was only one example..
Thanks for the upload dude - should've just won this game going into CA but didn't realise how bad Abbassid Castle Age boats are XD water feels so unbalanced but whatever. Wonder was my only chance and I realised after the fact I should've just made 2 siege works and made some stuff. My plan was just to bank res and repair, only realised during this game when repairing buildings its not like AOE and you need wood not stone to repair keeps lol
Great game man. Loved the complex strats and can't wait to see how the competitive scene develops for this game.
Hindsight is 2020. But what a game! Definitely had me rooting for you. Some of those plays you made were crazy exciting to watch! Well played
That was a really good game
Good game!
Yeah, water balance definitely needs a lot of work. I have played water only once in the stress test, but in the beta I had a few similar experiences when playing as Delhi, where I had vastly superior numbers (or straight up won water in feudal), better economy, but still got pushed back as soon as castle age navy started coming out for both sides (even when I was the one reaching that point first and outproducing).
Title: "Wonders are actually viable!"
Content: A player makes a wonder and loses...
These water battles r way more fun to watch than the aoe2 fire ship spam
Zomboid moodle. 😮
Enjoying these videos of high level games a lot, glad you managed to record quite a few during the test
That's the best so far... Water play is really next level in AoE4.
I also like watersports...
@@kodakomp
bonk
Only 2 knights in whole war lol
Had a game yesturday with a wonder
Trebed it down in the last 5 seconds
"I control the entire WATER!"
"Wonders are on land thou"
"...shit"
These games are so enjoyable to watch! Hope the game picks up plenty of steam when it launches!
19:17 omg is it just me or he moved the fishing boats up to distract him from his other boats thinking he was going to sneak in a explosive one???? Top level plays my god
Caught that too
Saw that too. Fishing ship and demos looked the same (when you view it briefly) Smart play!
There actually was An explosive one in there.
28:00 Saving those villagers. INSANE !!!
I hope they will improve the spawn of fish so that is more fairly distributed. Also, the deep fish should be bigger on the map. Right now those deep fish spots are so small and almost look the same size to that of the shore fish. Other than that, the water maps look quite interesting
Think big ones should have whales or something swimming and have a much larger clicking area like in Aoe 2. Otherwise everything about the sea gameplay in Aoe4 is the best in the series so far. happy to see it.
@@Jacob-lv9ll whales gave gold in aoe3 so that may be confusing
@@Kosaro1234 Oh really? That makes absolutely no sense haha. But then I agree. At least make it some bigger fish at least.
@@Jacob-lv9ll Whales werent really hunted for meat, but for their ivory and fat mainly. So that actually makes a lot of sense.
@@Jacob-lv9ll Makes a lot of sense actually, before fossil fuels, we were on out way to causing an extinction of the whales due to the demand for whale oil
Man, reds fish placement is so much better.
If blue had the same advantage (a lot of fish where he placed his first 2 docks) he would have stomped red early game !!
Isn't it? This confirms my suspicion that AOE4 does not have balanced map generation like AOE2 and that is something they should really look into. I observed the same thing with two other land maps.
The fish spawns were really uneven every game I played. If you’re pocket on a 3v3 or 4v4 on Archipelago you’re basically screwed, only get shore fish
That was a great game. Intense till the last moment.
Pretty egregious how similar the abbasid ships are. Can't tell the difference between fishing ships, dhows and demos.
Absolutely!!
that problem is fundamental in aoe4, icons, units, map, ships, all are unreadable.
@@ritwikreddy5670 things used to be more readable but then people complained that it looked too cartoony.
He used that to his advantage, though! Faking in with fishing ships to hide the explosive dhows, etc.
@@volodymyrboitchouk AoE2 is super readable and not cartoony. Frostpunk is pretty readable and the opposite of cartoony, as another example
Stress test is technically stressing me out
Viable? In team games Wonders were straight up OP. Basically every 4v4 I played during the test was just a race for who could build a wonder and have teammates wall it in.
If Blue had created any military at all he could have stalled for 4 minutes and easily won despite losing 90% of the map.
no food :P
@@orkhepaj Go anti-siege siege!
@@Muenni thats what he should have done , build them to at least delay the attacker
@@orkhepaj well from the moment he placed the wonder and his first castles he had 5 minutes for additional preparations, maybe I don't understand the game enough yet but I doubt he wouldn't have been able to anticipate the bombards and at least put out anything other than the siege cannon on his first castle
that being said the water being so vastly unbalanced was stupidly unfair, usually a civ with half cost docks would be arguably too strong on a water map but it didn't matter
I think a lot boils down to repairs being too fast, the civ with the bigger, more defensive ships always has a huge advantage that way
@@brohvakiindova4452 why not? Clearly bombards were needed to destroy the protecting forts and wonder in time, it was very clear the enemy will bring bombards
agree with the water , water snowballs , the side which gets the upper hand will just dominate it
we will see if something can counter it ,but even those fire ships doesnt seem to be able to do the job
8:40 How unreadable do you want the ships to be?
Devs: YES
34:29 YES!
Fishing boats should have 2 small sails, that would make them easy to read. Maybe even get the model 10% smaller so they don't look so bad when they are clumped together
It would be interesting for transport ships to be able to board enemy ships with the troops they have on board. Melee ship fighting was the way to go before the advent of cannons.
I like these matches where there are alternate victory conditions. Having 'destroy your opponent's landmarks' only doesn't allow for scenarios like this
@ 19:40min Drongo gave Hut a hard time about the fishing boats, but the move was so big brain even he missed the demo ship hiding in the group. Smart move sending the additional fishing boats along as decoys..
and people always tell me that starcraft has the best e-sport shows.
Age of empires beats it to the dust due to the so many variated ways one could pull out a victory, or simply change the entire pase of the game.
thanks for the aoe 4 content. cant watch this rn but i was already looking for wonder victory in aoe4
My guess is that at 19:17 HuT is hiding the explosive Dhows among the Fishing Boats since they look very similar. And with more boats that looks similar the sails could potentially block the sight of the other player to see the deck of the explosive Dhows, which are filled with bombs, and hence making it harder to distinguish them.
Awesome game, so tense from beginning to end! I really enjoy watching water battles in this game, something I never really did for AoE2. Excellent commentary here too, taking the time to explain things like units and upgrades!
Best show match i've seen from this game for sure. I like the longer games.
What a nostalgic game! I played Age of Empires 2 for what felt like an entire lifetime! Can't wait to see if the 4th game measures up.
I'm so hyped for the full release and at the same i can't help but to feel anger that my other favorite RTS seems to never be coming back.. c&c I miss you so bad
Same! EA really butchered Command & Conquers legacy.
CnC is still alive on cncnet, all the good ones anyway. I still play RA2 and YR often.
I’ve managed to install command and conquer generals zero hour on my ultra wide screen and it’s fantastic and enjoyable.
As entertaining as this is it raises 1 question:
Why arent we watching viper vs mbl???
Short answer is I think they were mostly busy with or recovering from RBW5 during the stress test weekend. But they will also have to weigh if they want to make the switch or if their strength remains with AOE2. Similar to Broodwar vs SC2 transition era.
I'm sure they'll all at least try AOE4 though.
@@comack669 wow thanka for the answer i mostly meant this sarcastic, but still thanks for the nice respond :)
Much fun to watch. Keep explaining the upgrades, makes unterstanding whats going on much easier
Aussie drongo you commentate as if it's a fucking football match between France vs Brazil. I just love the way you make it so interesting man.
man blue really dropped the ball on water control when he first got it
God, that was intense.
Hoinestly i can see Wonder Victories being very viable on tight maps like dark forest, you just wall up the choke points, make sure you don´t consume the wood-wall and you should be good.
HRE get a tech for double healing power on their docks. Definitely worth getting in these scenarios
damn OP then, repairs look way too fast anyway but that explains the hulk holding so easily
"More fishing boats coming in... Some with, some without fish! Everybody's gonna be a little bit hungry, and it's important reinforcements come in."
My last match was a Wonder Victory, I hopped over to a neighboring island and defended it with a naval blockade. So, so good!
28:30 this little Dunkirk moment is gold!
bro. this is the best 1v1 match on AoE4 so far.
Holy Roman Empires villagers are like squirrels. The extra resources they carry, they stuff in their mouths and brings them back to TH later on.
The second age to age 3 difference in the power of the ship was enormous
Yeah, they are much more expensive though and take up more pop space for each ship. Think it was 3 pop for 1 ship, and the imp age cannon ships take up 5 or 6 pop for each ship.
@@Qureas I guess thats for balance. It still seems pretty good.
15:02
Defiently got a new sub..
Love the honnesty and adaption bro :)
Got to play this a but in the open beta, looking forward to this game.
Nations to add that would be cool with this setup:
Bizantium: diplomacy rules:
They're diplomats were epic..
Give them India's AOE 3 ceasefire bonus? Perhaps add some things?
Ethiopia: I have no idea
Italians-----
( Choose a city-state theme as part of civilization gameplay; Venice gives x benefits, Milan is y benefits, etc.)
Add the French and give them a bonus for surrendering
@@SanctuaryLife aren't the Frank's already in the game though? Lol....
And it really wasn't surrendering: give them the ability to DEFECT to the other team instead 😅😅😅
5:28 was the same in any aoe game really
i'm so happy they keep the tradition to fuck up the water figth to make it as borring and linear it was back 1990. sorry for the sarcasme but yeah i'm disapointed they didnt take the hint there.
the lighting of the projectile is so weird, like there is no sun or anything they are just full brightness
Why go culture wing first if you don't pick up preservation of knowledge until after imp???
Edit: he also just needed like 2 cluverin to hold off the bombards long enough to win
Can someone please explain something to me. If I am not mistaken, it was announced earlier that the red team already had his wonder. How come wonder victory conditions did not start until blue built his wonder?
I grew up playing AoE and Starcraft BW, I haven’t played RTS’s in decades. I just got Civ 6 and am hooked. Now I might try SC2 and AoE 4..,
This thumbnail reminds me of when Blizzard was clickbaiting about "pro players" in the first week of the SC2 beta when they put out showmatches with some people I had never heard of playing any tournament
It bugs the crap outta me when I see people say that Age4 is basically Age2 but with better graphics. Chat was arguing a bit about this in the video around 5:00. They also debated how similar 4 is to 3 vs how similar it is to 2. By the time you're getting this deep, you might as well spend your time defining what Age4 is _without_ leaning on the previous games to describe it.
I understand why people make the comparison. It's Age _4_ after all. And there are obviously similarities. It just seems unproductive to get so deep into the comparison in an effort to define what Age4 is, especially when you're critiquing its flaws and its virtues.
Ppl need to learn to make preemptive counter siege in these situations
The take n hold and true line of sight is a genus of relic games
19:40 omg hut is actually mechanically gifted using the fishing boats to mask the explosive boat... bane vibes 100%
ngl sc2 players will destroy this game.
and will easily top leaderboards
11:46 ... -8 wood ?? how does that work ??
Now that's a game filled with big brain moves
wonders are great for 1v1's but team games the cost should scale up with the amount of players, the maps get a lot bigger and it takes nearly half the time just to move across it you hardly have a chance at taking it down
Agreed. Basically all the 4v4s I played ended in a camper building a Wonder in some corner and teammates walling it in. Unless you already have trebs nearby it’s basically hopeless.
This looks great but I can't help but laugh at how the chat is just a constant stream of nitpicky downers lol
7:25 Ultramarines really are everwhere.
I love watching star craft 2 tournaments but this is awesome, just subbed mate keep uploading!
weird how the games gone backwards graphically from aoe3 without letting you have huge armies on giant maps
nice game. Had to check several times if i hadnt put video speed to 1.5 though. Great youre capturing age 4. This seems to become such a blast on release. Got to get some holiday in i guess ^^
I like the idea of fishing boats healing. I just picture the boat rolling up to the war ship and the fish crew nailing up wood panels to keep her floatin' :D
Fishing boats can heal! That's such a good idea; I never would have thought of that!
...I keep saying that a lot about this game...
Is there an effective limit to the number of fishing boats to 1 fish location? and is this different for shallow water vs deep water?
Damn that was such a dope fight. Love the rework of objectives and such in AOE4
me and friends do this online, one guy builds it, while the remainder of the team builds a base and fort around it haha
most times our opponents quit, we got it down to a science
Yeah that's what other people are saying that it is brutally too meta
@@partydean17 Played a match just 2 nights ago where the opposing team had the same strat, it became a stalemate for a bit but huge wars once the timer was running out!
i still confuse how to build a wonder, why im not found it at the late game? newbie here
What if fishing ships can only heal for as much fish as they have on their boat. That way the healing isn't a finite resource and the battles can be more dynamic. Maybe even having a steady stream of rotating fishing ships for consistent replenishment. Hmm 🤔
Or lose hp while repairing, because they are stripping themselves for wood to repair.
@@rupert7565 oof, very realistic lol mod it 👌🏾
Hey Drongo, what is the way to make the villager do "the next thing" like basically set up the process flow of what he will do next?!
Dat technical stress test sign tho'
Think it's bad on 4k? Wait until you see it on 1080p. Takes up the whole screen lmao
did drongo not know that holy roman empire docks get double healing?, but what I did not know till I saw this vid that fishing boats heal mind blown!, this whole game was blowing my mind though great cast :)
You can garrison unit to the docks in aoe 4 so docks are able to shoot enemy vessels.
That game was absolutely incredible
i assume a wonder will trump holy sites captures right? Like what if he already captured the two holy sites first and then HUT built the wonder... what takes precedent?
Very exciting match. Makes me want AOE4 more now.
I'm wondering if they designed Romans to carry more, because of the roads they built.
Do you have any another channel that is dedicated to Starcraft 2 cause I would love to subscribe to that too :) Great videos and amazing commentary, man
How many villagers can a prelate keep buffed at at any time? Factoring in his cooldown and the effect duration?
9 i think.
Amazing commentary! Keep em coming!!
I didn't know Wonder *is are* actually viable. What a relief to learn that it is are.
Your channel is very good. Keep it up!
That was a good game. One of the things I've never liked about the AoE2 scene is turning off relic and wonder victory. They don't come up much but it should at least be an option.
how did he have minus 2 wood at some point?
Hope you have plenty of those in stock for this long month :)
Honestly I thought Frank could've won if he utilized his economic bonuses more
Also would've loved to have seen him utilize the keep's unit cost bonus a little more because I think that's what did him in
I applaud Mike for his skillful use of the nest of bees and the fire lancers to target Frank's landmarks although he definitely fielded an impressive army we didn't get to see his economy as much and I wonder if he took full advantage of the Imperial academy granaries and Imperial officials
I also would've liked to have seen Mike deploy the great variety of Chinese ranged units because I believe that is China's core strengths militarily
I saw on another video that the HRE villagers can carry 40% more as well.
Have they fixed the micro yet.
That was a great watch ty subbed
I love these aoe4 videos, you do a great job
AoE IV does make water battle interesting and amazing to watch
Awesome game! Well played to both players, great casting job too!
Outposts with cannons or apringalds is cheaper than 4 keeps. 2 keeps and 6 outposts all with cannon protext the wonder.
It's rather nitpicky but it kinda bothers me how some units are animated. Villagers and Men at arms in particular are suuuuper slow. If they had more oomph in their animation would add some much more to the general atmosphere.
SC2 Units in comparison are so much more lively for example
Man this was freaking awesome!
In Cossacks European Wars a game released in 2001 fishing boats actually go to the sea and fish.. and in AOE4 in 2021 fishing boats make up a star-shaped formation and fish from a given dot without even moving or doing anything to be frank. This is where we are... gaming companies shitting on their customers. Not even mentioning graphics which are really close to AOE3 that came out when, around 2004? Pathetic. And this was only one example..
god him saving those villagers was insane
Eh, why did he captured the secred sites at the same time of wonder countdown. It would be difficult choice what to atack. I just hoped HuT did it
I am glad I watched this and now know Explosive Dhow are NOT banelings.
Awesome game despite me still not liking water gameplay. But Drongo is killing the commentary with hype. MORE!!
I just going to say before you said "beta": when did this game come out?
HuK SHOULD play AoE4. He'd find a way to Mothership rush -- as Franks.
Beautiful match from both players.
16:30
Battle of Lepanto lmao