Just got me a o scope. These are so informative. It’s so good to see someone with some common sense and isn’t hating on everyone for not knowing just EXACTLY what you may be taking about.
I set my gains using a cheap oscilloscope. I am happy with the results. I picked up some cheap RCA to speaker adapters so that I could more easily test RCA's.
@@bykrdood7 they are a rca end with 2 terminal screws on the opposite side. Use just any wire Ill set up a link www.amazon.com/MOBOREST-Terminal-connectors-Solderless-Male-2pack/dp/B07HBJMHVV/ref=mp_s_a_1_1_sspa?keywords=rca+to+speaker+wire&qid=1578476470&sprefix=rca+to+speak&sr=8-1-spons&psc=1&spLa=ZW5jcnlwdGVkUXVhbGlmaWVyPUExRzRaQVNWQkNaTjBDJmVuY3J5cHRlZElkPUEwMTA3NDI5MzA5T0U2UVpZMjBGMCZlbmNyeXB0ZWRBZElkPUEwMzg4MjEwMkE4OUFXWDBJWFZBTyZ3aWRnZXROYW1lPXNwX3Bob25lX3NlYXJjaF9hdGYmYWN0aW9uPWNsaWNrUmVkaXJlY3QmZG9Ob3RMb2dDbGljaz10cnVl
my setup is 4 speakers attached to HU and subwoofer to amplfier. how should I test it? do I need to pullout the HU? or just hook it up on rca and then plug it in to test the amp?
I've been waiting for a video like this for literally 2yrs! Thank u so much! The fact that ur gonna follow through with a distortion detector for less than 20$ (and show us how to use, I'd assume) is really solid. Show's u care about the audio world and not taking ppls $$. However, some ppl may lose their shit as it will affect there sales. Like this video just did. Just wait for the SMD comments to come as I'm sure some nut hugger will show him. Lol. Thank u again for this video.
Heck yesssss!!! I was hoping you were gonna make one for a tech tip episode, very very nice!!! Now I'll know just how accurate mine is 😁👍I have wondered for over a year and half. Judging by ear after using it.. seems spot on. We shall see. Thanks man!!!
This was a very informative video. And you know what? Thank you! I'm waiting to get my Oscope so I can do one as well more geared to the technical side of things and do a full walk through for the basic beginner. More people are getting into Car Audio each day. Its nice that the community is doing more for the beginners out there. Tons of questions about the same topics. You would think... Some company by now would just make a total plug and play system for car audio.. But nope. :-) No one would buy it anyways. Lol.. It's just the nature of the Hobby.
I love car audio, you teaching me a lot of stuff, I always wanted a dd1 but i were saying to my self if you did any adjustment on your HU you would clip and you prove it, your ear is the best.
@EMF Audio... this video made me pay attention to the reality that treble can cause clipping. Thanks for the good educational information & keep up the good work. 😎👍😎
I am an electronic repair person so I own quite a few Osciloscopes. The cheap small hand held Osciloscopes work fine for setting gains. I've used them for years. I also usually do not use in line with a speaker... Any quality amplifiers rated rms power is achieved by setting the amp to pre clipping. Different music and speakers all cause changes to the clipping point BUT as one who listens to almost every kind of music.... Why am I going to take the chance of sending a clipped signal to my $500 worth of Subs? Or any speaker for that matter... If you want more bump out of it, add to it or increase amp size... There are more than enough options and when you consider the cost of speakers and time invested in changing component sets (which I have installed in factory locations)... This will pan out to be cheaper and more beneficial in the long run. Just food for thought from a guy who's been around stereos since 1992
Great video love the tech Tuesday’s!! Been using scopes on my stuff too, wasn’t too convinced shelling out the bucks for dd1. Keep up the great vids!! 👍🏼👍🏼
You can buy dso138 osciloscope for about 20-30bucks and it is perfectly fine for all audio related measurements. You can even use it to fix amps as long as you stay on ab class oh, did i mention that it can also be as crossover calibrator as well? You save like 20times the money.
What settings do you use? I have one but yet to assemble/use it. Never thought of using it for crossover calibration. I'll have to look into that as well.
Yep used the DSO138 osciloscope (cost $30) on my monoblock 1500rms - just needed x10 probes to read the higher voltage - saw the clipping easily on my amp and backed it down a bit, got a bit more out of the amp from using a DMM previously (which also worked great) vs me guessing or trying to do it by ear...
In my experience: Oscilloscope>DD1>DMM>Capacitor+speaker. A cheap DSO (digital oscilloscope) is the your best bet. but takes a small learning curve that is easy to grasp. If you're using a DD1: Once you get a clip light, turn the gain back just a tad bit to be safe. Depending on the amp sometimes clipping happens a tad bit before the DD1 fully detects it (a Fluke DSO showed me this).
It's been said that getting a clip light with a DD1 isn't the ONLY thing to be done. That being said, I'm guessing you didn't watch this video because we didn't use a capacitor at all.
@@EMFAudio I was just saying in general, I might have missed the part stating the dd1 and clip light which is right. Well overall I enjoyed the thorough explanation you gave in the video and subscribed. Edit: just found your dyi distortion dect. video, awesome!
Having not used a scope before which one we're you using. Maybe a short video to show what connects to where and what settings on the scope to use please
My take away from this video is that if you just want to get the most power from my amplifiers then not much is involved. If you want to get the most power from your amplifiers and you also want the system as a whole to sound its best then it is very involved and time consuming. Thanks EMF.
Wouldn't it be easier to max out your EQ and turn up the Bass, Mid, Treble......................Tune for this maximum clipping on the sweeping track, to be safe? Then set the gains on the amp and be done with it. Do you have the have the speakers connected in order to get the load on the amp to set with an oscilloscope?
That would be "safe" but it would be far from optimal in terms of maximizing output. When you boost all those things it can be 10-12 dB of boost, which is literally making your power when flat 1/4 of what it was. Having a reactive load can change where settings should be so that is ideal but not always possible.
I remember the owner of the company that makes the dd1 got all mad at me for suggesting the cap method on some other video that wasn't his anyway. The dd1 works ok,but cheap oscilloscope is King, just takes a small learning curve.
@@migascustomsounds3054 lol you know it im everywhere homie if ypu dont see me there is cause i dont follow that fool for my own personal reasons i dont like alot of fake ass bitch fool that act hard on here but they really sissy lalahhh hahahha
Great video! Could you explain the diffrence between distortion and clipping? I guess that you could have distortion on the signal without having it clipped? Can you see the distortion on a oscilloscope?
You won't have clipping without distortion (unless your signal source is just that) but you can have distortion without clipping. You'll see both on an oscilloscope. Basically, distortion is an unclean waveform, clipping is the apex of the waveform cut off.
O'scopes don't detect or show distortion in any way. They show voltage vs time only. They will show clipping, but not distortion caused from things other than clipping.
I saw other videos checking the head unit , most say always flat , nada treble mid at 0 , but what you mentioned once I set the treble mid and bass I can create the clipping at the recorded volume mark for clipping at flat level settings, so bottom line I should check for clipping with my settings set to my usual settings?
You can do alot more with a scope than you can with just a dd1. I used my dd1 a couple of times and found that i was already dead nuts on where i had my gains set, so i sold the dd1. My old mbquart crossovers have lights in them and were right on to the dd1 and scope.
Despite any feuds, I love getting new info about car audio/electronics! Look forward to EVERYBODY'S (You Tube bassheads) new videos! 2020 baby! Let's make some $ and blow it on speakers, subs, amps, tools etc! My wife calls my car my 'mistress'🤣🤣🤣
Mine won't even get near the my car when it is pounding. She doesn't mind otherwise. My tesla coil, however, she told me it was like I was cheating on her because I spent so much time on it... I did obsess over it though. Car is loud. Keep that " mistress" knockin'.
I love your videos, very informative. I agree with everything you're saying. And also verifies, my own thoughts about distortion and adjusting. Keep up the great work. And forget those haters if they don't want to actually learn. I want my system to sound flawless. And it's tough if you're streeming Bluetooth.
How’s it going brother! Been learning so much from you and your vids, thank you for your time and effort! Got a request: I’m someone who has a factory head unit, an Audiocontrol Lc2i, an Audiocontrol bass restorer, and an aftermarket amplifier. I’m sure I’m not the only one with the extra bells and whistles :) Can you please teach us where to start checking for clipping, and where to go after each step until we’re done tuning for clipping? Thanks again brother!!
@ EMF Audio thanks for the detailed information this has helped a lot. Living on a small island not much people now how to do stuff like this properly so all of what you shared is a big help. If you do another video on this could you show how to do it with an equalizer and crossover.
INPUT WELCOME.. i set my head unit and amp with a oscope (LM2020). My Sub is wired at 1 ohm on a jp23v1.5 amp in a custom box. I found that i could really increase the gain over my o scope setting because i have a clip light on the amp. I assume the sub ohms are rising and why i could increase the gain so much. I did scope it with my lpf off. Could i scope it loaded with the sub woofer hooked up? Should i have set my lpf before using the o scope? Im running a taramps dsp so my crossovers are digital. 2 huge agm batteries, h8 and xs d3100 on a 140 amp alt ( i need an alt) I sort of understand gain overlap and i used a -5db track (youtube) but i was able to go from 48 volts to about 62 volts. That would be 2500 watts at 1.5 ohms. 2800 watts is about the max output the amp can produce on a dyno at 1 ohm. I dont understand why i can overshoot the o scope so much without clipping. My amp shows clipping before my o scope does. The light comes on a tad before i see it on my scope. I guess it could be the recording level because a few songs hit like crazy and i have to turn it down but most songs are set perfect with that much overlap. I wish i could find a way to determine how much overlap i should run and relate it to voltage increase. 1 skar vxf12 is blowing my mind on this jp23. It hits so hard that people dont believe its 1 12. Ive had it almost a year and it took about 6 months to break in. It just kept sounding better and better while taking more and more power. Its tuned at 32 hertz and i dont run it to clipping below 40. It will clip the amp with the higher frequencies but down low it is the gift that keeps giving. Its in an almost sealed trunk and im worried my sunroof is going to shatter
I’ll chime in here and I’m not going to criticise any of the methods discussed. I have both an oscilloscope and a dd1. What I will say is that I have a question that I don’t think I’ve found a solution to when it comes to settings gains with my specific setup. I use the dd1 as it’s quick and easy to use. However, what if you have a situation like mine where you have a BMW that has the traditional mids and tweeters as well as a sub but also has midbass drivers under the seats? Surely I’m not the only one out there who has had this dilemma? How on Earth do you set your gains for the channel where the midbass are going to sit? The midbass will be playing between 80-200hz. Doesn’t this then make the dd1 redundant for setting the gains on that channel, as the light is only calibrated for either 40hz or 1khz?
ok, this was cool stuff. I got an o-scope from a friend and adjusted the maximum clipping volume (with my equalizer on) using the a sweep tone. When I plugged back in teh RCA plugs and then did a channel on my amp, it already was clipping with the gain all the way down. Obviously, I did something wrong, but not sure what. Help is appreciated..
You may not have done something wrong. Amplifiers have a range of input voltage say 0.25-4v of signal input on the gain. If you had 5v on the signal it's out of that range and would be clipping.
EMF Audio Thank you for your reply. Now a very dumb question, but I’m trying to figure out what exactly gain is. If I’m getting output voltage of about five watts from the head unit, does that mean that I don’t need an amplifier?
So I set my gains by ear at the moment. For my mids + highs I used a 1khz 0db tone and with all speakers connected turned the head unit up till I heard it clip, then turned it down and marked my number. For my Sub i used a 40hz tone 0db and found max volume on the head unit again. The went to my amps tuned the volume up to the max clean level I heard. and played the tones again until I heard clipping (used a 40hz -3db tone here and the same 1khz tone) Is it safe to say my gains are set fairly well?
This video was super informative and will help me tune my radio/2amps once I get my o scope. However I did have a question: I keep seeing in multiple videos when we test the clip point to keep the EQ on flat. Do we keep it there afterwards as well? Asking because wouldn’t changing the treble or htz on the radio after the fact also change its clipping point?
Once you get your scope, and your gains are set from the flat EQ, go back to the head unit and see what effect - gaining anything in the EQ - has on the waveform. That answer will come to you when you see when it clips.
Can i use the same technique on my av reciever to identify the sub out rca clipping point ? And instead of the sweep can i use multiple bass frequency tones ? For example 20 to all the way 200 ?
If I'm trying to determine if my HU is clipping and it's an OEM unit without RCAs and just speaker-level outputs, should I hook the leads to the speaker outputs after the factory amp? Or can I check the actual RCA outputs from my my DSP before the amps?
What would be a good resolution to go for? I bought a cheap one for like 40. I didn't understand the features that well, and I don't like the way I have to move the screen to see the peaks. I want to get a better one without spending too much, but not a cheap one.
Moving the screen around has to do more with auto ranging than anything else. That's definitely a feature I should have mentioned that is quite useful.
God i wish i would of grabbed my dads oscope before he got rid of it .....i was shown how to do it this way with a real oscope where you can make out the whole wave clearly back in 95/96 you know the like 2 feet long 7 inches high and a big screen in the middle lol ... I always had a noise in the wave doing it this way, the wave is suppose to be clean.. doping it this way you can get more out of the amp but it is still wrong if you still have a dirty single, not a clipped signal but a dirty wave didn't know this wasn't suppose to be there untill i read a few " hifi " papers. .that went more into the waves then just clipping... . (AT least i always had a dirty wave ) i have not been able to see the noise in the wave with any of the cheap handhelds i tried... maybe it was the handhelds i used i don't know but when i had it and then did this after i set the dd-1 i still didn't get a clipped wave, but obviously there was a dirty wave... i Can't tell if your wave was dirty in this video like i always got with a good oscope ... i just gave up on cheap handheld oscopes i wish i had the one my dad had,, but back then i was always lazy and didnt want to lug it up the stairs and to the car so i tuned by ear, and dmm so when he stopped repairing tvs and shit i didn't think of grabbing it which is a regret
I know this video is old but I’m having an issue. So when I hook my scope up to the rca and get a clean waveform up to 42. So I leave the volume at 42 and hook up to the amp. The oscope goes crazy and gets all over the place. I wasn’t sure if that was just from bad noise or what?
hi, i am confused with the osci, when i try to turn the gain, the recommended voltage for a 2000 watts under 1.5 ohm is 54.7v. but the osci does not detech distortion until 65v. what gain should I set? the osci wave form that clips over 60v or the voltage calculator that is 54.7v?
I haven't used them or even really looked at them, but it would be cool to have some input from people that have used them. It could turn into a go-to tool for many.
ufor1a I’ve got a 3k rms amp and my liumy oscope doesn’t like anything past 30 volts. It takes typical multimeter probes. Is there a way to get 10:1 probes for a multimeter?
The basic ddm and a good ear will do most everything you need. The scope will confirm the ear and dial it in a little more precise. Hate to trust a "blinking led" setting gains.
Im in the works a making a diy hifi system i have everything thing for it exept for subs i cant seem to find any that can play the lowest notes of organ music what would you recomend for 8 hz flat im wanting to use 4subs per ch and for a total of 8 subs do i need 12" or15"
I picked up a $40 o-scope on Amazon and its a nice little unit. I originally set my amp gains via DMM. I was surprised how much more power was in my Alpine PDX-V9 once I could see clipping on the o-scope. I compared the new o-scope gain setting side by side with my DMM and noticed there was a about a 5.5 volt difference between the o-scope and the DMM (example oscope: 24.33V DMM: 19.0V. The o-scope was higher on all channels. Any idea why it was approx 5 volts higher?
Based on comments, if you use that scope and hurt someones feelings your scope is cheap and no good, but if it does you some good it's fine. 5v is a lot difference at that level, you're talking about 25%. Maybe your DMM sucks, I did a video on that. Harbor Freight DMM's read impedance very wrong, but DC voltage OK, I don't remember testing AC voltage. I'd say you need a 3rd option to see if it reads the same as one or the other to see where the issue is.
So going by Ohm's law, This Sundown 50w x 4 is making just over 80w per/ch. But in reality how close would that be?? Because if then using Ohm's law its 160w at 2 ohms. But you did say at the start that the amp doesn't produce double it's power at 2 ohms. Which brings me to my next question. Does the gain stay the same whatever speaker you are using? 4, 2, 1 ohms?? I know it's prob best to do it with a speaker loaded, But I also don;t want to blast test tones off to piss off the neighbours LOL
I mentioned in the video that wiring below rated impedance can cause clipping. The amp being used is rated for 2 ohms, but is not rated for 100 watts per channel. Voltage should stay the same and current should double but I know his amp is one that couldn't go as high on voltage when wired to 2 ohms, it would clip, but would still make more power than at 4 ohms. I also mentioned loaded is best, but I understand the whole deal with leaving it playing a tone for a while, especially at full tilt.
Its also a tool that can be useful for 100s of other situation. I use one for sensor diagnostics on engines. 🤷♂️ i paid 200 for mine. In 3hrs of owning it and using it. It paid itself off with 2 different jobs coming in at 150 dollars and 90 dollars. Its paid itself off 10x over in the 6 months ive owned mine.
it's a oscilloscope you can set your game on your amp for a low pass or high pass frequency with that tool you can stop your amp from clipping that mean you think it's getting hot and it shut off is not that your app game is it set up property
Sean, My question is about how much do speaker manufacturer's under rate the power handling of speakers? For example, If I have a speaker rated at 50W RMS, would it be safe to set my amp to send 75W RMS to the speaker. If not, what level over 50W is safe?
How manufacturers choose to rate speakers will vary. Some are over rated, some are under rated, some are appropriately rated. Don't confuse amp rating with power handling either. If an amp is capable of making 75 watts that doesn't mean it's always putting out 75 watts. That 50 watt speaker might be getting 25 watts.
It wont hurt it depends on what you do. If you cruise around full tilt if the speaker is correctly rated. Yes it will burn up faster. Not saying it will go up right away tho. Now then if you are the typical joe out here who runs listens to music at relatively low volume. You maybe able to get away with a 200s rms amp on a 50w speaker. Like my dc 3.5k clamped when running at normal level, is only pushing around 1500-1600 with rise. When i go full tilt, it is at rated even with box rise. My coil is rated at 1500w rms and 3k burp. But ive clamped the amp and seen at what volume the amp output is at. That verys on setup, install and style of speakers and users. I know guys running amps almost double rated rms their subs. Doesnt mean their subs handle twice as what they are rated. It just means how they have it setup at normal listening volume, the subs and speakers are getting their rms. If they dont go above that for long periods of time and to often they never have issues. Thats where some guys get the idea their subs handle more than rated. Like say you have 500w sub on a 1k. They may play it full tilt for a short demo or something. But 97% of the time they have it at a normal listening level. You can run alot more than rated, its all about how hot the coils and speaker get. Why spl subs maybe rated at 1500 rms 3k max, then say 6k burp. But it takes a lot of trial and error to determine that. Really why you go with a reputable company who stands behind their product. If you go for the 2k watt max walmart sub and put 500wrms and burn it up. Thats on you for not reading the fine print of 250rms in the subwoofer manual. I normally stick with companies that label the rms not the max, and have a name in the industry.
So what do you do if you want to go louder than the 25 volume? Fukn bullshit that the head unit clips losing so much volume potential. On my pioneer head unit volume 1-30 is so damn low it's pointless, then in distorts at 45 with 60 being the max volume. So I'm stuck in a volume zone that is not loud enough for my preferences. What is the solution to this??? Thanks for your reply. -Cheers
If your gain is set properly, you should have a linear volume increase from 1-45. Having a bazillion numbers is a marketing tactic, higher numbers is louder, right? It also makes every click less effective. The solution is get a HU that goes to a lower number, really. Each click will have more significance.
Yes there is a linear increase in sound but the db output at 1-30 are so low I would never listen to music at such levels so my listening db preference is always at the 40+ numbers. Is there a way to increase the output signal "gain" of the unit so as to make the unit louder at the lower volume numbers? I was watching another video and the guy was saying that all head units reduce their power output as the volume is increased, is this true? Would a digital sound processor help in this situation? Thanks for your replies mate. -Cheers
Question for you, have you ever compared the tweeter with capacitor method directly with your O'scope to see if it is accurate? I can't afford a scope so Ive been using the tweeter method and I hope it's somewhat accurate. Thanks man.
@@EMFAudio we should try it at least. I dont have a 22uf cap to test it with. I think it's a 22uf anyway. I saw barevids do this but have yet to see anyone take it seriously and verify the validity of setting it this way.
You likely won't find a 200 watt mono amp, but you should be able to find that in a bridgeable 2 channel pretty easily. That isn't anything we sell though.
This has everyone up at arms. Maybe just do your homework like every one should and buy what suits your needs best. If your doing some research because of his videos. It's a win. Don't get mad if you're right then what's the problem. People should know not to just except what anyone says without having a little skepticism.
Can I comment on this and not have Steve jump in and call me stupid? This is how I set my gains.. and I just learned more.. good video.
Steve will probably comment. He gets butt hurt easily
Just wait. He can't help but to barge in and insult people and get butthurt over comments
he makes money off people being ignorant sad he gets mad rather than help
777 Smitty it really is sad how he acts. I quit following him on IG Facebook and youtube. I try to see the good in everyone but he makes it hard.
@@fusiondensity3287 im glad people are up on that dude i regret everything i purchased from him
Just got me a o scope. These are so informative. It’s so good to see someone with some common sense and isn’t hating on everyone for not knowing just EXACTLY what you may be taking about.
this video was more helpful then anything i have looked at on youtube
I set my gains using a cheap oscilloscope. I am happy with the results. I picked up some cheap RCA to speaker adapters so that I could more easily test RCA's.
I've been trying to find a good way to test my RCA's can you elaborate on the speaker adapters??
@@bykrdood7 they are a rca end with 2 terminal screws on the opposite side. Use just any wire
Ill set up a link www.amazon.com/MOBOREST-Terminal-connectors-Solderless-Male-2pack/dp/B07HBJMHVV/ref=mp_s_a_1_1_sspa?keywords=rca+to+speaker+wire&qid=1578476470&sprefix=rca+to+speak&sr=8-1-spons&psc=1&spLa=ZW5jcnlwdGVkUXVhbGlmaWVyPUExRzRaQVNWQkNaTjBDJmVuY3J5cHRlZElkPUEwMTA3NDI5MzA5T0U2UVpZMjBGMCZlbmNyeXB0ZWRBZElkPUEwMzg4MjEwMkE4OUFXWDBJWFZBTyZ3aWRnZXROYW1lPXNwX3Bob25lX3NlYXJjaF9hdGYmYWN0aW9uPWNsaWNrUmVkaXJlY3QmZG9Ob3RMb2dDbGljaz10cnVl
@@bobdodge3171 I was gonna hack up an old set of rcas....but this is way better. Thanks for sharing this!!
@@terrormisu you are welcome bud!
my setup is 4 speakers attached to HU and subwoofer to amplfier. how should I test it? do I need to pullout the HU? or just hook it up on rca and then plug it in to test the amp?
I've been waiting for a video like this for literally 2yrs! Thank u so much!
The fact that ur gonna follow through with a distortion detector for less than 20$ (and show us how to use, I'd assume) is really solid. Show's u care about the audio world and not taking ppls $$.
However, some ppl may lose their shit as it will affect there sales. Like this video just did. Just wait for the SMD comments to come as I'm sure some nut hugger will show him. Lol.
Thank u again for this video.
Heck yesssss!!! I was hoping you were gonna make one for a tech tip episode, very very nice!!! Now I'll know just how accurate mine is 😁👍I have wondered for over a year and half. Judging by ear after using it.. seems spot on. We shall see. Thanks man!!!
Very informative way to put everything needed to know in one video
This was a very informative video. And you know what? Thank you! I'm waiting to get my Oscope so I can do one as well more geared to the technical side of things and do a full walk through for the basic beginner. More people are getting into Car Audio each day. Its nice that the community is doing more for the beginners out there.
Tons of questions about the same topics. You would think... Some company by now would just make a total plug and play system for car audio.. But nope. :-) No one would buy it anyways. Lol.. It's just the nature of the Hobby.
I really like the way you explain not just how, but why. Can you please do a vid on how to properly add a dsp to that setup?
I love car audio, you teaching me a lot of stuff, I always wanted a dd1 but i were saying to my self if you did any adjustment on your HU you would clip and you prove it, your ear is the best.
@EMF Audio... this video made me pay attention to the reality that treble can cause clipping.
Thanks for the good educational information & keep up the good work.
😎👍😎
I am an electronic repair person so I own quite a few Osciloscopes. The cheap small hand held Osciloscopes work fine for setting gains. I've used them for years. I also usually do not use in line with a speaker... Any quality amplifiers rated rms power is achieved by setting the amp to pre clipping. Different music and speakers all cause changes to the clipping point BUT as one who listens to almost every kind of music.... Why am I going to take the chance of sending a clipped signal to my $500 worth of Subs? Or any speaker for that matter... If you want more bump out of it, add to it or increase amp size... There are more than enough options and when you consider the cost of speakers and time invested in changing component sets (which I have installed in factory locations)... This will pan out to be cheaper and more beneficial in the long run. Just food for thought from a guy who's been around stereos since 1992
Always wanted to see how to set gains properly with an o scope! Thanks!
Great video love the tech Tuesday’s!! Been using scopes on my stuff too, wasn’t too convinced shelling out the bucks for dd1. Keep up the great vids!! 👍🏼👍🏼
You can buy dso138 osciloscope for about 20-30bucks and it is perfectly fine for all audio related measurements. You can even use it to fix amps as long as you stay on ab class oh, did i mention that it can also be as crossover calibrator as well? You save like 20times the money.
What settings do you use? I have one but yet to assemble/use it. Never thought of using it for crossover calibration. I'll have to look into that as well.
Yep used the DSO138 osciloscope (cost $30) on my monoblock 1500rms - just needed x10 probes to read the higher voltage - saw the clipping easily on my amp and backed it down a bit, got a bit more out of the amp from using a DMM previously (which also worked great) vs me guessing or trying to do it by ear...
Gains should be set with a load connected on due to a rail voltage sagging.
That's why I mentioned it, but you can't always do that.
In before Steve Meade copy and paste tantrums.
Foreals lol
Steve is a butt hole
I brought popcorn
if you set gains at flat, just always use 0db on your equalizer as max....always cut signals you want quieter, dont boost signals you want louder.
Nice and clean:)Thanks !No FcUK DD tools only scope an brain!
the best way to set your gains!
Very useful and informative. Thank you!
In my experience:
Oscilloscope>DD1>DMM>Capacitor+speaker.
A cheap DSO (digital oscilloscope) is the your best bet. but takes a small learning curve that is easy to grasp. If you're using a DD1: Once you get a clip light, turn the gain back just a tad bit to be safe. Depending on the amp sometimes clipping happens a tad bit before the DD1 fully detects it (a Fluke DSO showed me this).
It's been said that getting a clip light with a DD1 isn't the ONLY thing to be done. That being said, I'm guessing you didn't watch this video because we didn't use a capacitor at all.
@@EMFAudio I was just saying in general, I might have missed the part stating the dd1 and clip light which is right. Well overall I enjoyed the thorough explanation you gave in the video and subscribed.
Edit: just found your dyi distortion dect. video, awesome!
I love how steve never replied to my comments lol keep up the good work dude love the videos
Did you try telling him he’s a meanie?
Stuff like that usually gets his attention. 👀
Having not used a scope before which one we're you using. Maybe a short video to show what connects to where and what settings on the scope to use please
Good Video Man, I love people that have the balls to tell it like is.. 👍
Thanks for all these great videos
Excellent info...just what I needed.. thanks🙏👍
My take away from this video is that if you just want to get the most power from my amplifiers then not much is involved. If you want to get the most power from your amplifiers and you also want the system as a whole to sound its best then it is very involved and time consuming.
Thanks EMF.
Wouldn't it be easier to max out your EQ and turn up the Bass, Mid, Treble......................Tune for this maximum clipping on the sweeping track, to be safe?
Then set the gains on the amp and be done with it.
Do you have the have the speakers connected in order to get the load on the amp to set with an oscilloscope?
That would be "safe" but it would be far from optimal in terms of maximizing output. When you boost all those things it can be 10-12 dB of boost, which is literally making your power when flat 1/4 of what it was. Having a reactive load can change where settings should be so that is ideal but not always possible.
Very informative, thank you.
So tempted by the Pico Scope
DSO Shell 150. If you get a real one and not a clone, they are awesome and cost about $20-$25.
the cheap o'scopes on ebay are good and the capacitor mod with the cheap speaker also works.
I remember the owner of the company that makes the dd1 got all mad at me for suggesting the cap method on some other video that wasn't his anyway. The dd1 works ok,but cheap oscilloscope is King, just takes a small learning curve.
@@warup89 what is the cap method? What do I search?
@@ShSmith there's a video by barevids channel called "detect amplifier clipping without dd-1!.."
@@warup89 the DD1 is a waste of money, buddy is just mad you’re not lining his pockets
Thats right brother... But i go with the ear and common sense and knowledge and past experience myself...
I knew i would find u here. Lol. Same here.
FATHER'S OF BASS you already know dawg that’s the best way. How is everything going brotha?
All good. Just replaced my batt and on my way to a bigger alternator. Working on a vid.
@@migascustomsounds3054 lol you know it im everywhere homie if ypu dont see me there is cause i dont follow that fool for my own personal reasons i dont like alot of fake ass bitch fool that act hard on here but they really sissy lalahhh hahahha
@@jamesbondcaraudio4247 everything good homie just living life and doing the doo doggie hows everything your way
Very good video and very useful information
Great video!
Could you explain the diffrence between distortion and clipping?
I guess that you could have distortion on the signal without having it clipped?
Can you see the distortion on a oscilloscope?
You won't have clipping without distortion (unless your signal source is just that) but you can have distortion without clipping. You'll see both on an oscilloscope. Basically, distortion is an unclean waveform, clipping is the apex of the waveform cut off.
O'scopes don't detect or show distortion in any way. They show voltage vs time only. They will show clipping, but not distortion caused from things other than clipping.
😂😂 Still wish I bought an o scope! 😂😂😎🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸
I saw other videos checking the head unit , most say always flat , nada treble mid at 0 , but what you mentioned once I set the treble mid and bass I can create the clipping at the recorded volume mark for clipping at flat level settings, so bottom line I should check for clipping with my settings set to my usual settings?
The oscope I have is from the early 90s. Looks like a tube tv lol. I need to get with the times.
Can you do a video setting amps using oscilloscope and external crossover
You can do alot more with a scope than you can with just a dd1. I used my dd1 a couple of times and found that i was already dead nuts on where i had my gains set, so i sold the dd1. My old mbquart crossovers have lights in them and were right on to the dd1 and scope.
Despite any feuds, I love getting new info about car audio/electronics! Look forward to EVERYBODY'S (You Tube bassheads) new videos! 2020 baby! Let's make some $ and blow it on speakers, subs, amps, tools etc! My wife calls my car my 'mistress'🤣🤣🤣
Mine won't even get near the my car when it is pounding. She doesn't mind otherwise. My tesla coil, however, she told me it was like I was cheating on her because I spent so much time on it... I did obsess over it though. Car is loud. Keep that " mistress" knockin'.
Couldn’t have said it better!! Knew I wasn’t the only one.
Nice vid. Thank you.
How do I set the voltage from my EQ to my amp? My amp don't like More than 2 volts
I love your videos, very informative. I agree with everything you're saying. And also verifies, my own thoughts about distortion and adjusting. Keep up the great work. And forget those haters if they don't want to actually learn. I want my system to sound flawless. And it's tough if you're streeming Bluetooth.
Very good video.
when is the next text stuff tuesday coming out?
Thanks for video
How’s it going brother!
Been learning so much from you and your vids, thank you for your time and effort!
Got a request: I’m someone who has a factory head unit, an Audiocontrol Lc2i, an Audiocontrol bass restorer, and an aftermarket amplifier. I’m sure I’m not the only one with the extra bells and whistles :)
Can you please teach us where to start checking for clipping, and where to go after each step until we’re done tuning for clipping?
Thanks again brother!!
Check it at the end, if it's not clipping the rest doesn't matter. If it is clipping, then go back through the chain to find it.
Is it possible to read a crossover freq?❤️
@ EMF Audio thanks for the detailed information this has helped a lot. Living on a small island not much people now how to do stuff like this properly so all of what you shared is a big help. If you do another video on this could you show how to do it with an equalizer and crossover.
So do you install your amplifier listen to it set your crossover points your treble your bass and all of that then set the gain?
Yes, you should make all sound adjustments prior to gain setting if you aren't using your ear to set things.
Hey, amazing video. Where can I get these test tones?
INPUT WELCOME.. i set my head unit and amp with a oscope (LM2020).
My Sub is wired at 1 ohm on a jp23v1.5 amp in a custom box.
I found that i could really increase the gain over my o scope setting because i have a clip light on the amp. I assume the sub ohms are rising and why i could increase the gain so much.
I did scope it with my lpf off. Could i scope it loaded with the sub woofer hooked up?
Should i have set my lpf before using the o scope?
Im running a taramps dsp so my crossovers are digital. 2 huge agm batteries, h8 and xs d3100 on a 140 amp alt ( i need an alt)
I sort of understand gain overlap and i used a -5db track (youtube) but i was able to go from 48 volts to about 62 volts. That would be 2500 watts at 1.5 ohms. 2800 watts is about the max output the amp can produce on a dyno at 1 ohm.
I dont understand why i can overshoot the o scope so much without clipping. My amp shows clipping before my o scope does. The light comes on a tad before i see it on my scope. I guess it could be the recording level because a few songs hit like crazy and i have to turn it down but most songs are set perfect with that much overlap. I wish i could find a way to determine how much overlap i should run and relate it to voltage increase.
1 skar vxf12 is blowing my mind on this jp23. It hits so hard that people dont believe its 1 12. Ive had it almost a year and it took about 6 months to break in. It just kept sounding better and better while taking more and more power. Its tuned at 32 hertz and i dont run it to clipping below 40. It will clip the amp with the higher frequencies but down low it is the gift that keeps giving. Its in an almost sealed trunk and im worried my sunroof is going to shatter
I’ll chime in here and I’m not going to criticise any of the methods discussed. I have both an oscilloscope and a dd1. What I will say is that I have a question that I don’t think I’ve found a solution to when it comes to settings gains with my specific setup. I use the dd1 as it’s quick and easy to use. However, what if you have a situation like mine where you have a BMW that has the traditional mids and tweeters as well as a sub but also has midbass drivers under the seats? Surely I’m not the only one out there who has had this dilemma? How on Earth do you set your gains for the channel where the midbass are going to sit? The midbass will be playing between 80-200hz. Doesn’t this then make the dd1 redundant for setting the gains on that channel, as the light is only calibrated for either 40hz or 1khz?
This is why using your ear is best, always.
ok, this was cool stuff. I got an o-scope from a friend and adjusted the maximum clipping volume (with my equalizer on) using the a sweep tone. When I plugged back in teh RCA plugs and then did a channel on my amp, it already was clipping with the gain all the way down. Obviously, I did something wrong, but not sure what. Help is appreciated..
You may not have done something wrong. Amplifiers have a range of input voltage say 0.25-4v of signal input on the gain. If you had 5v on the signal it's out of that range and would be clipping.
EMF Audio Thank you for your reply. Now a very dumb question, but I’m trying to figure out what exactly gain is. If I’m getting output voltage of about five watts from the head unit, does that mean that I don’t need an amplifier?
So I set my gains by ear at the moment. For my mids + highs I used a 1khz 0db tone and with all speakers connected turned the head unit up till I heard it clip, then turned it down and marked my number. For my Sub i used a 40hz tone 0db and found max volume on the head unit again. The went to my amps tuned the volume up to the max clean level I heard. and played the tones again until I heard clipping (used a 40hz -3db tone here and the same 1khz tone) Is it safe to say my gains are set fairly well?
Using your ear is best, it's the original distortion detector. Regardless of where your gains are set, if you hear distortion, turn it down.
@@EMFAudio Well, that's what I do! Thanks!
amazing info, so very well explained, from head unit to all, sadly you do not have much likes, because the YT algorithm sucks so bad.
It's probably more people mad because they wasted money on a $300 tool that just blinks at them.
Does this method work on full bridge amps like the taramps
Where can I get that sweep track from
Audiocheck.net
Where do I connect the oscilloscope if my amps are strapped?
This is fantastic. I’m wondering, what would the process be if I have an eq between the head unit and amplifier?
You'd want to use the last part of the signal chain, meaning the EQ output.
This video was super informative and will help me tune my radio/2amps once I get my o scope. However I did have a question: I keep seeing in multiple videos when we test the clip point to keep the EQ on flat. Do we keep it there afterwards as well? Asking because wouldn’t changing the treble or htz on the radio after the fact also change its clipping point?
Once you get your scope, and your gains are set from the flat EQ, go back to the head unit and see what effect - gaining anything in the EQ - has on the waveform. That answer will come to you when you see when it clips.
Can i use the same technique on my av reciever to identify the sub out rca clipping point ?
And instead of the sweep can i use multiple bass frequency tones ?
For example 20 to all the way 200 ?
If I'm trying to determine if my HU is clipping and it's an OEM unit without RCAs and just speaker-level outputs, should I hook the leads to the speaker outputs after the factory amp? Or can I check the actual RCA outputs from my my DSP before the amps?
So what if im using a stock head unit that doesnt have rca outputs? Can i use the speaker wires to attach the leads from the oscope?
What would be a good resolution to go for? I bought a cheap one for like 40. I didn't understand the features that well, and I don't like the way I have to move the screen to see the peaks. I want to get a better one without spending too much, but not a cheap one.
Moving the screen around has to do more with auto ranging than anything else. That's definitely a feature I should have mentioned that is quite useful.
dso138+ 10x probe=25dollar on ebay. up to 400Vpp!!
God i wish i would of grabbed my dads oscope before he got rid of it .....i was shown how to do it this way with a real oscope where you can make out the whole wave clearly back in 95/96 you know the like 2 feet long 7 inches high and a big screen in the middle lol ... I always had a noise in the wave doing it this way, the wave is suppose to be clean.. doping it this way you can get more out of the amp but it is still wrong if you still have a dirty single, not a clipped signal but a dirty wave didn't know this wasn't suppose to be there untill i read a few " hifi " papers. .that went more into the waves then just clipping... . (AT least i always had a dirty wave ) i have not been able to see the noise in the wave with any of the cheap handhelds i tried... maybe it was the handhelds i used i don't know but when i had it and then did this after i set the dd-1 i still didn't get a clipped wave, but obviously there was a dirty wave... i Can't tell if your wave was dirty in this video like i always got with a good oscope ... i just gave up on cheap handheld oscopes i wish i had the one my dad had,, but back then i was always lazy and didnt want to lug it up the stairs and to the car so i tuned by ear, and dmm so when he stopped repairing tvs and shit i didn't think of grabbing it which is a regret
I know this video is old but I’m having an issue. So when I hook my scope up to the rca and get a clean waveform up to 42. So I leave the volume at 42 and hook up to the amp. The oscope goes crazy and gets all over the place. I wasn’t sure if that was just from bad noise or what?
same goes if you have a DSP thrown in there? Gotta adjust DSP and THEN adjust gains?
As mentioned in the video, set your settings, then gain.
Thank u
That handheld resolution tho.....
is it possible to check your true watts going out of your amp at a certain setting with an oscope?
Can we use oscilloscope apps which are available on playstore.? I wish to tune the dsp and set rhe gains on amp..thanks
hi, i am confused with the osci, when i try to turn the gain, the
recommended voltage for a 2000 watts under 1.5 ohm is 54.7v. but the
osci does not detech distortion until 65v. what gain should I set? the
osci wave form that clips over 60v or the voltage calculator that is
54.7v?
What do you think about those jye tech oscopes all over eBay and Amazon some are diy kits and others come preassembled you think they any good?
I haven't used them or even really looked at them, but it would be cool to have some input from people that have used them. It could turn into a go-to tool for many.
Yep got the cheapie JYE Tech DSO-138 just needed x10 probes for my 1500rms monoblock, worked well!
ufor1a what do the x10 probs do?
Jeremy S lets you get a higher voltage reading on the oscilloscope worked great with my amp 1500rms recommend the eBay oscilloscope!
ufor1a I’ve got a 3k rms amp and my liumy oscope doesn’t like anything past 30 volts. It takes typical multimeter probes. Is there a way to get 10:1 probes for a multimeter?
The basic ddm and a good ear will do most everything you need. The scope will confirm the ear and dial it in a little more precise. Hate to trust a "blinking led" setting gains.
“You people” I feel attacked !!! 😡 😤
have a lumy unit (lm2001) got it for like 50-60? ebay is your friend folks
Im in the works a making a diy hifi system i have everything thing for it exept for subs i cant seem to find any that can play the lowest notes of organ music what would you recomend for 8 hz flat im wanting to use 4subs per ch and for a total of 8 subs do i need 12" or15"
Where ya been?
No more tst?
👨🏽🏫👏💪👍 thank you
I picked up a $40 o-scope on Amazon and its a nice little unit. I originally set my amp gains via DMM. I was surprised how much more power was in my Alpine PDX-V9 once I could see clipping on the o-scope. I compared the new o-scope gain setting side by side with my DMM and noticed there was a about a 5.5 volt difference between the o-scope and the DMM (example oscope: 24.33V DMM: 19.0V. The o-scope was higher on all channels. Any idea why it was approx 5 volts higher?
Based on comments, if you use that scope and hurt someones feelings your scope is cheap and no good, but if it does you some good it's fine. 5v is a lot difference at that level, you're talking about 25%. Maybe your DMM sucks, I did a video on that. Harbor Freight DMM's read impedance very wrong, but DC voltage OK, I don't remember testing AC voltage. I'd say you need a 3rd option to see if it reads the same as one or the other to see where the issue is.
@@EMFAudio My DMM is Klein Tool MM300. Is it possible the variance is coming from the probes?
Do you have a recommendation on an o-scope for a beginner looking to get into this? Also, may be used for automotive diagnosis in the future?
MDS120M
What settings are you using on the scope? Thanks
Can you put a link for the Sweep file
up for this we want that file!
Lets wait for steve comments or damore for this. It looks perfectly fine video.
So going by Ohm's law, This Sundown 50w x 4 is making just over 80w per/ch.
But in reality how close would that be?? Because if then using Ohm's law its 160w at 2 ohms.
But you did say at the start that the amp doesn't produce double it's power at 2 ohms.
Which brings me to my next question. Does the gain stay the same whatever speaker you are using? 4, 2, 1 ohms??
I know it's prob best to do it with a speaker loaded, But I also don;t want to blast test tones off to piss off the neighbours LOL
I mentioned in the video that wiring below rated impedance can cause clipping. The amp being used is rated for 2 ohms, but is not rated for 100 watts per channel. Voltage should stay the same and current should double but I know his amp is one that couldn't go as high on voltage when wired to 2 ohms, it would clip, but would still make more power than at 4 ohms. I also mentioned loaded is best, but I understand the whole deal with leaving it playing a tone for a while, especially at full tilt.
Awwww you don't like the SMD DD-1 lol ( eyeroll )
You're better than Meade. Even your Hussle is more sincere.
Pretty good video. Just another tool to adjust your amps is what I see. Now I'm commenting to get subscribers. Think this test will work???
Its also a tool that can be useful for 100s of other situation. I use one for sensor diagnostics on engines. 🤷♂️ i paid 200 for mine. In 3hrs of owning it and using it. It paid itself off with 2 different jobs coming in at 150 dollars and 90 dollars. Its paid itself off 10x over in the 6 months ive owned mine.
It's on Amazon right now for 37 bucks
What is?
it's a oscilloscope you can set your game on your amp for a low pass or high pass frequency with that tool you can stop your amp from clipping that mean you think it's getting hot and it shut off is not that your app game is it set up property
Sean, My question is about how much do speaker manufacturer's under rate the power handling of speakers? For example, If I have a speaker rated at 50W RMS, would it be safe to set my amp to send 75W RMS to the speaker. If not, what level over 50W is safe?
You're better off having a more powerful amp than the speaker. Thus ensuring that you don' t run out of amp power which can damage the speaker.
Jonka Olofsson you cant damage speakers due to lack of power, as long as you set your gains right you wont destroy anything.
How manufacturers choose to rate speakers will vary. Some are over rated, some are under rated, some are appropriately rated. Don't confuse amp rating with power handling either. If an amp is capable of making 75 watts that doesn't mean it's always putting out 75 watts. That 50 watt speaker might be getting 25 watts.
It wont hurt it depends on what you do. If you cruise around full tilt if the speaker is correctly rated. Yes it will burn up faster. Not saying it will go up right away tho. Now then if you are the typical joe out here who runs listens to music at relatively low volume. You maybe able to get away with a 200s rms amp on a 50w speaker. Like my dc 3.5k clamped when running at normal level, is only pushing around 1500-1600 with rise. When i go full tilt, it is at rated even with box rise. My coil is rated at 1500w rms and 3k burp. But ive clamped the amp and seen at what volume the amp output is at. That verys on setup, install and style of speakers and users. I know guys running amps almost double rated rms their subs. Doesnt mean their subs handle twice as what they are rated. It just means how they have it setup at normal listening volume, the subs and speakers are getting their rms. If they dont go above that for long periods of time and to often they never have issues. Thats where some guys get the idea their subs handle more than rated. Like say you have 500w sub on a 1k. They may play it full tilt for a short demo or something. But 97% of the time they have it at a normal listening level. You can run alot more than rated, its all about how hot the coils and speaker get. Why spl subs maybe rated at 1500 rms 3k max, then say 6k burp. But it takes a lot of trial and error to determine that. Really why you go with a reputable company who stands behind their product. If you go for the 2k watt max walmart sub and put 500wrms and burn it up. Thats on you for not reading the fine print of 250rms in the subwoofer manual. I normally stick with companies that label the rms not the max, and have a name in the industry.
So what do you do if you want to go louder than the 25 volume? Fukn bullshit that the head unit clips losing so much volume potential. On my pioneer head unit volume 1-30 is so damn low it's pointless, then in distorts at 45 with 60 being the max volume. So I'm stuck in a volume zone that is not loud enough for my preferences. What is the solution to this??? Thanks for your reply. -Cheers
If your gain is set properly, you should have a linear volume increase from 1-45. Having a bazillion numbers is a marketing tactic, higher numbers is louder, right? It also makes every click less effective. The solution is get a HU that goes to a lower number, really. Each click will have more significance.
Yes there is a linear increase in sound but the db output at 1-30 are so low I would never listen to music at such levels so my listening db preference is always at the 40+ numbers. Is there a way to increase the output signal "gain" of the unit so as to make the unit louder at the lower volume numbers? I was watching another video and the guy was saying that all head units reduce their power output as the volume is increased, is this true? Would a digital sound processor help in this situation? Thanks for your replies mate. -Cheers
Question for you, have you ever compared the tweeter with capacitor method directly with your O'scope to see if it is accurate? I can't afford a scope so Ive been using the tweeter method and I hope it's somewhat accurate. Thanks man.
I believe that's what he is going to do next.
I am aware of the method but I haven't used it.
@@EMFAudio we should try it at least. I dont have a 22uf cap to test it with. I think it's a 22uf anyway. I saw barevids do this but have yet to see anyone take it seriously and verify the validity of setting it this way.
@@terrormisu taylorfade does
@@terrormisu I used it, it works but only with low frequencies, higher one pass through and makes it hard to hear the distortion.
I’ll always use my DD1
Steven Adams in doing so you would be done already
Man can u help me? I need an amp under 100 bucks that can get 200w rms mono or dual bridgeable. Is it possible? What would you recommend?
You likely won't find a 200 watt mono amp, but you should be able to find that in a bridgeable 2 channel pretty easily. That isn't anything we sell though.
This has everyone up at arms. Maybe just do your homework like every one should and buy what suits your needs best. If your doing some research because of his videos. It's a win. Don't get mad if you're right then what's the problem. People should know not to just except what anyone says without having a little skepticism.
Where can I message you?