Well said. I felt the same way after my first time through the book. Was disappointed as I felt that the both of them could have pulled it off together. But I also realize that maybe that was the lesson for all of us- Plagueis was a Muune and Palpatine was human. Maybe one of the messages is that human emotion is unpredictable and can get in the way of plans. Palpatine was filled with envy and a lust for power. He was envious of Plagueis and did not want to share the spotlight. And maybe Plagueis weakness was that he didn’t understand humans in that way.
I’m literally so happy you and Star Wars theory are getting along and now you are gonna do a show together or a podcast or whatever that is literally amazing. You guys are both my favorite Star Wars UA-camrs ever and it’s just amazing that you guys are joining together. It’s gonna be really amazing to watch you guys blossom as friends and also as professional relationship.
Great video. I remember reading that Plagueis was welling his power up but stopped before he could fight back. Honestly, I think that Plagueis would win this on even footing. Plagueis was also incredibly skilled with Force Lightning. Many things that people overlook is how he killed one of the listed potentials by cooking her with Force Lightning INSIDE her surrounded by hundreds of onlookers and they didn't notice a thing. Plagueis is so underrated, he was also INCREASING his Midichlorean count, making him stronger in the Force.
Darth Plagueis set up the entire plan. He had all the right connections and had everything in place before episode 1 even began, including Palpatine's rise to Supreme Chancellor. Palpatine certainly played his part well and adapted to any unforeseen circumstances but he kind of just coasted by on someone else's work.
While somewhat true, if Palpatine wasn’t a skilled politician, he wouldn’t have succeeded. Yes Plagueis set up many connections, but it’s not like Palpatine has a literal script to follow during meetings and Plagueis was busy enough that he probably let Palpatine do a lot of them by himself. The art of diplomacy and manipulation is not an easy task. As a polar opposite, look at Jar Jar Binks, he fumbles his way through things. Palpatine is a snake in the grass that no one even thought he was a corrupted politician, nonetheless something like a Sith Lord. It’s less like Plagueis set up a row of dominoes and more like a game of chess stacked in their favor because they know their opponents so well.
Plagueis used palpatine in most of his plans palpatine put in the hard work being a political strategiest he was while staying undetected by Jedi and while plaguies indulged in his experiments so if anything plagueis coasted on sidious’ work.
I have to agree with Darth Plagueis on light sabers. If you can electrocute someone with the tip of your fingers. If you can use the force to send someone flying across the room or send objects flying towards them. And if you can force choke via television. Then why even bother with light sabers when the force is all you need.
Well if youre fighting someone that is adequately trained in the force and additionally trained in lightsaber combat. Your entire combat style would rely on keeping them far away from you. Its also easier to cut someone down with a lightsaber than relying on the force which would be physically draining reducing your ability to maintain combat for extended periods of time. Youre letting the power of the force cloud your mind
Because the other guy can too and maybe also has a saber and is good with it. Sidious and Dooku both faced this with Yoda: Someone they couldn't overwhelm with the Force. Sidious got lucky too in that regard. He neglected his swordsmanship and it nearly cost him *twice.*
Ive said it once, I'll say it again. Palpatine only ASSUMES he's dead. Plagueis is not dead, and Snoke would have been a perfect opportunity for him to return and fuq all kinds of shit up. Palpatine jumped the gun on taking over. He still had more to learn and was not as strong as Plagueis in the force
I find it odd that 2 key factors got left out. 1 how Plagueis used the force to control his own body when he fought like a puppet so that he could push his body beyond its limits, not having to feel any damage he received while using this ability. 2 How Palpatine poisoned the wine he gave Plagueis which to me always went against the Rule of Two when Bane said "The mantle of Master must be taken by force, against the Jedi use poison, manipulation, every trick you can, but not with this. In order to ensure that every Sith in the Rule of Two is more powerful then the last this MUST be done"
technically ever since bane the sith have been getting weaker since a master wouldn’t teach their student everything they know and the student then kills the master so the student never learns all their master had to offer and then it just keeps repeating
Yes it's really a super dumb system. There's really no reason for a master to fully train their apprentice. Even if it had worked as designed, it assumes that "more is more" and anyone who manages to beat their master is automatically "better" in all ways. Anyone who has ever played rock-paper-scissor should know that that is not the case. Plagueis being killed while drunk doesn't exactly scream "strongest ever" either btw.
Thats not true. No sith ever taught their apprentice everything, even before Bane's line. That doesn't mean they didn't teach their apprentice how to use their strengths and specific talents in the force. Bane couldn't use sith sorcery but encouraged zanna to because she had the ability. he gave her texts on sith alchemy, and she used that knowledge to defeat him. Bane also taught that the apprentice must challenge the master when they're strong enough, not jump the master while they're asleep, like Palpatine. So if anything, the sith should be getting stronger as long as they don't pull a Palpatine.
It’s the whole point of craving power and knowledge. When you crave something, especially if fueled by the dark side, you become machiavellian, the end justifies the means, whatever the means. This is why Vader was immensely powerful but a pretty rubbish Sith in the end.
10:20 - Well, there's the answer Sidious would've been bested by Plagueis had Plagueis not been drunk or caught off guard. This is a brilliant presentation, I love it!
There's really no reason a Sith Lord should ever engage in a fair fight. Palpatine did well by killing his master while he was off guard. Plagueis fucked up big time by getting drunk in the presence of his apprentice, let alone falling asleep.
@@wanderhillen2435 you have no idea what you're talking about. The whole point of the Bane line was for the apprentice to become stronger than the master, THEN challenge the master to a duel, defeat the master, and train their own apprentice, repeating the process, making sure the sith only get stronger. The reason is that the dark side isn't like the light side and is best used through one being instead of thousands, like the jedi and ancient sith.
@@slthjawa5062gggghhjjjjjkkkk. Incorrect, Bane started the rule of 2 with the thought process of “more Sith will water down the dark side” the reason why the master Must be killed by any means is so the apprentice can gain the power of being the only Sith temporarily.
In Palpatine’s speech to his Master he said many of Plagueis’s ideas were planted by Sidious. I believe Sidious was lying. It just doesn’t make sense. Plagueis wasn’t a fool or an idiot. Just as Tarkin said: “…far too trusting “
Great video! Only slight mistake I think was that at 05:28 ish? Plagueis didn't try to fight back. He woke up, with the force gathering in him like a storm, but "stopped short of defending himself." He "merely gazed at Sideous". Confident that he couldn't be killed, and in denial that he was slowing suffocating (breathing mask broken from force lightning), Plagueis might have simply been experimenting with himself. Actually courting death to put it in its place. Sideious is initially taken aback by this. I love this description. A good example of "pride comes before a fall". But further, it leaves open the question of who would have won had Plagueis faught back straight away. Plagueis is one of my favourite characters. That book is incredible.
Thanks to Tenebrous Plagueis has genetics on his side, despite the Dark Side and Sidious’ appeal for each other, and Palpatine grew in strength after his Master’s death. If Plagueis was awake then I don’t think Sidious would have won that duel, or if he did it would be at a terrible cost.
Palpatine did use force powers to manipulate people, peer into the future, cloud the Jedi vision in the force. He just did it in a more subtle way. If Sheev was not as powerful as he was in the force he would have got nowhere near where he did
In Legends EU Palpatine was his name there was no Sheev or any other first name just plainly Palpatine and Palpatine had the same force potential as Galen Merek with only Most of the Skywalkers, Most Of Leias Line, And The Force Deities being the only ones having a higher count them himself yeah.
Regardless of whether or not Plagueis could have killed Sidious in a fight before the former’s death, as the passage from the novel states, Palpatine’s power multiplied significantly after killing Plagueis, elevating him several levels above even one of the most powerful Sith Lords ever in Darth Plagueis. From that point on, Sidious would go on to have no equal in the dark side. So the Palpatine we see congratulating Padme at the end of The Phantom Menace (by then he had killed Plagueis) was already far more powerful than Plagueis could ever be.
We dont know if Plagueis would also gain such an increase if he killed Palpatine. Also bear in mind Plagueis was healing himself and de-aging with his midichlorian manipulation, which he had yet to master. So if we put a hipothetical Revenge of the Sith Sidious and Plagueis, Sidious might be jacked up. But Plagueis would be with no need of respirator, at his 20s equivalent and with the midichlorians mastered.
@@SamCaiman14They were equals in power current wise before Sidious offed him it was not until afterwards that Sidious became far more powerful in the force then Sidious became a equal in current power to Jedi Master Dooku whose current force power at the time was noted to be near equal to Yodas yeah.
@@matthewmann8969 The point is that just like Sidious was massively powerful in ROTS compared to when he killed Plagueis, so would be plagueis if he made it to ROTS.
The rule of 2 was broken by Darth Tenebrous. He never intended to teach his apprentice everything he knew or relinquish control. Darth Plagueis managed to kill him while he was distracted, not a true defeat as Darth Bane had intended to make each successive Sith Lord stronger than the previous. The same thing happened with Darth Plagueis.
Great video The Stupendous Wave. I am wondering. What If Darth Sidious felt Anakin's birth? Like he felt Anakin being born and after a year or so found out where he was born. Killed Shmi and trained him from birth to be the Prefect Sith. Reaching his Full Potential Both in Power & Darkness. Making Him Darth Sith'ari and overthrowing Sidious once Palpatine became the Emperor. As we all know, George Lucas said that Anakin's full potential was 200% to Palpatine's 100%. But after Mustafar Vader was only 80% to Sidious 100%. But that Sidious always thought that Vader's weakness was laying more in his mind, than his body. But what if this Darth Sith'ari reached Ultimate Sithhood in Both aspects of mind and body. And became the (Not) The Dark Lord of the Sith. (But) THE Darkest Overlord of the Sith. Reaching the roof of what any Sith ever could be in both.
Palpatine wasn’t more powerful at that point, but more intelligent and manipulative and better at taking advantage of opportunities. He did grow more powerful than Plagueis by the time of Revenge of the Sith, and by the time of ANH he was just on a whole other level
@@Force_user57 in my experience there’s no such thing as luck. nah but fr, I mean more intelligent in a tactical sense. Pelagius was more intelligent in a mathematical and scientific sense though.
They were equal in power by The Phantom Menace Era the reason why Sidious got Plagueis intoxicated though was because if not it could of gone either way mostly due to Plagueis knowing how Palpatine fought as he directly trained him yeah.
Yet Palpatine while killing Plagueis said how he and Plagueis were equal in current power then after sending Plagueis to the other side he noted he felt far more powerful currently by The Phantom Menace and went on to get Jedi Master Dooku on his side and noted that Dooku was his equal from the Jedi Order with current force abilities, lightsaber combat, and political acuman in Labyrinth Of Evil and in The Plagueis Novel noted that he had to be wary of Jedi Master Dooku when they were talking one to one in a private location mainly noting how Dooku was indeed strong in the force and could be luring him out to off him again reconfirmed or reaffirming that they were equal currently in power, skill, and political mastery yeah.
One sometimes thinks Sidious did a little hoodwinking with regard to Dooku. If we compare their performances against mutual dueling foes, it seems the difference in power is minimal, and indeed, it is clear Dooku is the better swordsman... just as Plagueis said in the novel.
If one looks at how free a Sith, when they're the master, or even the apprentice, their freedom is so immense, and nearly limitless. They can study and train in any area of the force that they wish, yes they won't be able to use "pure" lightside abilities, but can still study them for whatever reason they want. To simply understand or cancel it out, perhaps to make their own version. But imagine if a Jedi got this type of freedom, and was allowed to study all the areas of the force, and the Jedi have so much knowledge compared to the Sith, their knowledge is both lightside and darkside, and have many different people's holocrons to learn from. While the Sith mostly just have the previous rule of 2 Sith, and if lucky they find an older holocron from a Sith before that way of thinking/life. That Plageius was so immensely powerful, or any rule of 2 Sith to be powerful, is fairly easy to fathom, since their freedom. If Sidius had fought Plagueis one on one, he most certainly wouldn't manage to kill his master, but only once he gained more strength, like what he obtained when he got his freedom, after killing Plagueis
Remember this: The dark side corrupts and destroys your body. Training in the dark side is foolish as the cost will be your destruction. As Yoda wisely said, the dark side may seem easier, but it is not stronger; in fact, it is weaker when analyzed carefully.
It’s just like what Ichigo’s zanpakuto said. Palpatine is a war horse, the moment he senses weakness he will buck his master off and trample him to death
I think it is interesting that Plagueis would win and I think I know why: Plagueis has mastered exerting his will over the mediclorians. Our proof of this is what he did with Darth Venimus. This is something that would take time given that Sidious has more mediclorians and is similarly powerful he does not understand his masters work and is unprepared. I see this happening in a similar way with Bane and Zana where Bane tried to take over Zana’s body via essence transfer
Honestly, the fact that there is no official source or statement saying that Palpatine grew stronger between TPM and ROTS will always make me sceptical about the outcome of this type of comparison
Exactly lol. People just assumed that Palpatine grew in power without providing evidence like feats or statements. The only statement I can think of is in the Legends Darth Plagueis novel, Palpatine felt he grew stronger immediately after killing Plagueis, but this "feeling" isn't backed up by improved Force/combat feats compared to when Plagueis was alive. It doesn't even prove if Palpatine's supposed increase in power made him equal or superior to Plagueis since it's purely a subjective statement. If anything Palpatine would likely have gotten a little rusty (combat wise at least) since he's now the Master with no Sith to directly rival him in like 15+ years
While Sidious was eliminating Plagueis he noted that they were equal in current force power which would place them noticeably or highly above The Phantom Menace Maul as force users at that time then once Palpatine noted he got majorly more powerful in the force after taking out Hego Demask he went on to get Jedi Master Dooku on his side but was pretty reluctant on revealing himself to the Count mostly due to him sensing Dooku was indeed strong in the force and could be luring him out to kill him and this is when they were talking one on one in a very private location too and in Labyrinth Of Evil that same Sids that went to get the count to side with him noted how Jedi Master Dooku within The Phantom Menace Era was his equal from the jedi order in three ways in current force power, lightsaber combat, and political acuman yeah.
This is kind of the Rule Of Two's biggest flaw, the lax attitude leads to the apprentice passing when they are not truly worthy, close perhaps but sometimes not quite there. Either do to the master's potential hubris or an apprentice getting lucky. Either way, thiscan open up possibilities of students graduating without having learned all they could. This is why, if you're going to tolerate this, you need Sith holocrons. It should be a moment of "congratulations you bastard, I never saw that coming, before I die don't forget to finish your training. My holocron is stored here." if this was going to be so accepted and potentailly common. In the situations like Sedius, the loss wouldn't have mattered if he could have simply picked up the holocron within hours after killing his master to resume his training. The master being better at some skills would rarely matter if the apprentice truly learned everything and the difference was do to small factors like one being of a species or as an individual that is better at a specific skill. At that point just wait until the next dark lord is someone who is also naturally gifted at that skill. At least everything would be passed on. The idea that the force told him to allow himself to be weaker is kind of funny. "Kill that old drunk, don't finish your training, everything will be fine." If plaguis was truly this strong, that's a matter of luck more than anything.Luck in that none of the Rule Of Two Sith were as stupid as his apprentice and himself. I suppose there was that one that was driven mad by trying to use the light side so even more potential was squandered with the knowledge that lord of the Sith destroyed. The Jedi lose their power from not believing they need it, softening from peace and being ruined by hubris. The Sith are weakened by the allure of the power and the desire for more instant gratification, do to their selfishness and the fact that using the dark side at all means your time is more limited unless you find a way to cheat the system.
Meh. Why would a proper Sith ever engage in a fair fight? Much better to kill a dangerous opponent while they're unconscious than if they have even the slightest chance of killing you.
I just wanted to thank you guys for this piece! It was very good, covering 2 of my favorite Sith Lords ! Darth Plegueis the Wise, as I always call him, could defeat Sidious ! Except for one thing. Darth Sidious was destined to be the fulfillment of the grand plan, in my opinion! Darth Sidious wasn't flawless. However, the way he executed the grand plan was nothing but flawless!
I think it would make a cool “what if” video. If Plagueis managed to defeat Palpatine, I believe he would have used astral projection but made himself to look like Palpatine. He would have followed through on his original plan to appoint Plagueis’ alter ego Hego Demask as co-chancellor. Then, he would have faked Palpatine’s death and inherited the full chancellorship at that point. I don’t know where the story goes from there but it’s a start
I don't think that would have worked. Force hiding was one thing, but something like am astral projection would certainly have been noticed by the jedi
@@unigaming9921 In Last Jedi Luke was able to astral project and fool Kylo Ren into thinking it was him. Everyone could be felt in the force, including Palpatine. It’s not entirely out of the realm of possibility that he could project Palpatine and mimic his signature in the force
@@unigaming9921 He was the grandson of Vader. I wasn’t a fan of his portrayal but he was pretty powerful. He would have had a familial as well as master-student bond with Luke. Him not being able to sense it was a projection meant Luke must have done a good job in making sure the projection had his signature on the force
Considering what Palpatine said to Anakin about the fact that Plagueis had the power to stop people from dying, as well as that it was Plagueis that brought Anakin into being and not his apprentice that I agree, Plagueis (even in death) was still fighting his apprentice, long after he seemed to not exist proves he is more deceiving than Palpatine
It's not an easy choice for me. Darth Plagueis is very potent, and capable, but he's also VERY aware of that, and it can go to his head. More than that, though, there were windows of time when you might say he wasn't actually training Palpatine, and the younger Sith might not have even seen his Master for a bit. In those times, I can imagine Sidious figuring stuff out that maybe Plagueis wouldn't just be able to say "I know you; I trained you, and everything you know came from ME!", which could leave Plagueis on a back foot, needing to re-gauge his apprentice's current skills, and range, in a fight where any one mistake would mean death. Saying that, I'd still be inclined, at that point, to give it to the Muun Master. Palpatine was also often very arrogant, and even he feared fighting his master. He tried circuitous routes, like sending a bomb to Sojourn, hoping to nuke his master from orbit (in sci-fi, it's often the only way to be sure 😊), and then took advantage of Plagueis being inebriated. He KNEW he didn't want to wage a head on battle with Plagueis, blade or Force, because he felt he wouldn't win, until the Force said "do it NOW!" Unrelated, but this might honestly be one of the few things I DIDN'T like about the Plagueis novel; chapter 2, and on, he's the Master. It's obviously the point, but I personally might have enjoyed the book even more if we had spent more time with a younger Hego Damask, being trained by the calculating Darth Tenebrous. Maybe it's just that I personally want more Tenebrous content, but Hego didn't exactly spend a great deal of his early life with his father, his family, or his species. When Rugess Nome appeared, one day, Hego was still young enough to have his father be able to say "He's come for you, and we are giving you to him, as we agreed", so while he knew (and didn't like) his family, and one might say he acted as a Muun probably would, it might have been more fun to see just how much of an influence Tenebrous actually had on the shaping of who Darth Plagueis turned out to be, despite often not liking one another, or the times when Tenebrous didn't seem to be really training his apprentice. We know how Plagueis got to the top, and his own peak, but it still might have been cool to see more of it. That's just me, though.
I think Plagueis was the fulfillment of the Sith Grand Plan but the Darkside rejected him because of his views on the force. Sidious first tried to blow him with a nuclear device and once that didn’t work he got him drunk. If Sidious didn’t kill him when he did most likely Plagueis would’ve grown in power exponentially and nobody probably would’ve stopped.
Also I don’t know if you will see this comment. But I wanted to suggest maybe doing a theory video. What would happen if King Adas was reinstated met Plagueis and Sidious. Considering he is the first and most powerful Sith of all time. I am curious is Sidious would be a suck up because of how much he wanted to be the Sith’ari but wasn’t worthy nor powerful enough for the title. Truth be told I feel like King Adas would not only have questions but he might try to kill Sidious and the Jedi themselves after finding out his people were near extinct and I’m hiding from the Jedi including Sidious and Plagueis due too the Sith having no choice but to die, flee and give in to the rule of two. I mean King Adas knew the Sith’s blood thurst better then any Sith, god or Jedi combined. So I guess my questions would be… 1. Would King Adas rally the last of the Sith PureBloods that are still alive as well as their ancient cousins the Massassei? 2. Would he Force the current Sith to bend the knee of kill them where they stood 3. Go on a complete rampage on the remaining Jedi and Sith as well as the Galaxy (which let’s be honest. Give the Sith King a ship and he could probably do that with ease) 4. Try to bring back his race with an Ancient Sith Ritual only he would know about? 5. Would he make a new Sith Empire under his rule once more giving in a bit to let anyone with the Darkside of the force become apart of his Empire Or 6. Lastly being possibly making a new ritual to create a new type of PureBlooded Sith. Either way I think it would be cool. We got theories on how Tenebrae the immortal Empire would rule if he returned. But I wanna know what the Sith’ari himself would think. No Sith dared Challenge King Adas and he would see right through Sidious and his master’s lies and attempts to trick him. After all if anyone will see through Sidious’s lies it’s the Sith’ari himself. I don’t think King Adas would sit idly by especially after learning that the 2 main reasons for his race’s extinction was The Sith Emperor Tenebrae and The Jedi. I would add Bane but Bane’s mass genocide doesn’t even come close to Tenebrae and what the Jedi did but King Adas would probably be pissed at them all none the less
When Sidious killed his master Plagueis he got upgraded to a newer level in the dark side since its by tradition of the Sith for the apprentice to evolve and surpass to usurp the master to becoming Dark Lord and those same teachings would have been passed on over had Vader not lost his duel on Mustafar with his full potential as the ultimate being kept in tact
This is great story! I think Sidious would win. But fight was disappointing. Dark side congratulated Palpatine,his anointing. Ancient Sith Lords congratulated too,they despised Plagueis. It was time. May the Force be with you too😊
Everything transpired as the Force itself wanted!!! Just like the Kenobi & Anakin mustafar fight it had to happen that way in order for Darth Vader (cyborg Vader) to be who he is and how we know him!!! Even Quigon Jin told Yoda on Dagoba that he wasn’t and couldn’t win against Darth Sidious, it would be nice to see Anakin on his Full Chosen one potential… and how Ahsoka would’ve turned out
I think plagueis would have won,but I need to read this novel. I'm not very informed when it comes to this,sounds awesome. I just think plagueis would have hidden certain info from palpatine to keep the upperhand as palpatine did with dooku and vader etc. No doubt palpatine was strong but not at that time,it even seems as if the rule of two was splitting the dark side energy between them. Maybe that's why the force called to him to kill his master as well as the experiments and what not. Maybe plagueis transferred his power as his last act in that form? So many possibilities it seems. His videos are always so thought provoking i love it
Reti and Evan made a fanfix for Plagueis's death. Instead of getting him wasted, Plagueis exhausts himself reviving Venamis, and then Sidious strikes him down.
I think about it this way. Sidious, proud as he was, still decided to first get his master drunk, then get him while he slept, purposefully targeting his master’s weak point. That’s not the Sidious who knew he would win, I think he is confident he would lose any other way.
I always thought that the point of the Sith rule of 2 was that the Sith order always kept getting stronger. Sidious was the most powerful rule of 2 Sith. Only Anakin at full strength could have beaten him.
Here from SW Theory. Anyone who doesn't jump on the idiotic hate bandwagon to try and get people cancelled because they are insanely jealous and don't like their opinion is okay in my book. Looking forward to making my way through your content.
Plagueis was a fool to underestimate me. After I killed him, I grew far more stronger and by the time of the Dark Empire, I was more powerful than he could possibly imagine.
I do agree that the dark side seems to have conspired against plagueis. He didn't even want an apprentice, until Palpatine appeared. He seems to have been tempted, and fell into hubris.
Plagueis didn't attack him he laughed at him thinking he couldn't kill him because he thought he had unlocked his midichlorians to that level and his arrogance got the best of him
Sidious never used the starkiller move as it was move that if not done correctly could vaporize him as well. If plagueis could pull off that move he would. Palpatine would have died.
People overestimate Sidious because he gets absolutely *wanked* in the narrative by the narrator specifically in almost all Star Wars EU media, even when doing so doesn't make sense. Going by just the films actually portrays him in his weakest possible light, funnily enough.
I mean in Legends EU his midichlorian count was one of the few to actually be higher then Yodas own by a large amount and he had one equal to Galen Marek and the only ones with a higher natural force connection to Sidious were The Force Deities, Most Of The Skywalker Line, And Most Of Leias Line yeah.
There is only one force feat that Sidious doesn’t posses: and thats manipulation of midichlorions the only cheat code Plagueis would have at his disposal in the force
Had Plageous been awake when Sidious tried to kill him, I think it would have been no contest AT THE TIME. Sidious's power when Plageous died was nowhere near enough to challenge his master in open combat during the Phantom Menace.
According the the author and Sidious himself they were equals in current power by TPM Era with Sidious only becoming more powerful currently then his pre boost self and Plagueis after he took out Hego then post boosted Sidious noted in both The Darth Plagueis Novel And Labyrinth Of Evil Novel that Jedi Master Dooku as of The Phantom Menace Era was his equal from the jedi order not just in current force power(Jedi Arts) but also in lightsaber combat(A Master Duelist), And Political Acuman(A Political Visionary) and noted that Dooku before pledging himself to the order of the sith lords while they were talking alone in a private spot was indeed strong in the force and could be luring him out to kill him and that instead of a lightsaber duel to the death there had been much discussion note Sidious did not think of who would win in fight to the death between the two of them but didn't want to risk it as confirmed before Jedi Master Dooku was equal to post boosted Sidious in power, skill, and political management by TPM Era and Dooku at that time was known to be second only to Yoda in the order when it came to current force abilities a close second because even during the late clone wars Yoda thought of which student of the order would be strongest in the force to either battle against him and or aid him as a accomplice and the only ones with high enough force ceiling to make that conversation where Anakin And Dooku Dooku who had a equal force natural connection to Yoda and Anakin that had a much higher then both and Dooku currently even as a Jedi Master was so hugely powerful current wise in the force that Yoda said this in front of the entire council in person to there faces including in front of Windu yeah.
It’s been stated that the dark and light side of the force both have wills of their own, if Plageuis respected the will of the force and the less scientific aspects of the force do you think the dark side would of still convinced Palpetine too kill him then
I would say at that time Plagueis had more experience which could have given him the edge however Palpatine was stronger overall, that is just my thought on it.
I think that the accumulated Dark Side Power of a Sith can be inherited by killing the Sith. In this way, the Rule of 2 allows for each Successive Sith to generate more and more power over time, like an Evil version of One for All from MHA. So prior to killing his master, Palpatine was weaker. After killing him and inheriting the accumulated dark side power himself, he was of course stronger.
It would be a close fight, neither able to outright overpower the other. I get Sidious went for the easy kill. I don’t know if he was a 100% certain he could be beat Plagueis straight up.
I think the dark side said "do it now" because Sidious needed Plagueis inebriated and vulnerable. Frankly, I dont think it would've been close otherwise.
Plagueis Is A Tank And His Size Would Have Clearly Meant that He Was Naturally Physically Stronger Then Most People Definitely Vastly Stronger Then Humans
If Darth Sidious had fought Darth Plagueis at that point head-on, I think he would have lasted for some time, but ultimately, I think Plagueis would have won.
In short siddious would never have snuck plagues if he could beat him head on he’d have loved to revel in the kill of his master through sheer brutality with the force
I have to think that killing your master when he was drunk and passed out after celebrating the ultimate Sith victory was not what Bain had in mind.
If sith became force ghost they would be ashamed of palpatine, probably even laughing at his cowardice
😂😂
Idk bane preached treachery and deceit to zannah.
But specifically made an exception for usurping your master
Well said. I felt the same way after my first time through the book. Was disappointed as I felt that the both of them could have pulled it off together. But I also realize that maybe that was the lesson for all of us- Plagueis was a Muune and Palpatine was human. Maybe one of the messages is that human emotion is unpredictable and can get in the way of plans. Palpatine was filled with envy and a lust for power. He was envious of Plagueis and did not want to share the spotlight. And maybe Plagueis weakness was that he didn’t understand humans in that way.
“Where are the other 6 assassins?”
Plagueis: “Gone. Reduced to atoms.”
I’m literally so happy you and Star Wars theory are getting along and now you are gonna do a show together or a podcast or whatever that is literally amazing. You guys are both my favorite Star Wars UA-camrs ever and it’s just amazing that you guys are joining together. It’s gonna be really amazing to watch you guys blossom as friends and also as professional relationship.
Can’t wait till tonight. Excited to have you and theory coming together for a video
Watching that brought me here
@@craigslaney1864 it is now a recurring podcast with name pending, currently stupendous theory
Great video. I remember reading that Plagueis was welling his power up but stopped before he could fight back.
Honestly, I think that Plagueis would win this on even footing. Plagueis was also incredibly skilled with Force Lightning. Many things that people overlook is how he killed one of the listed potentials by cooking her with Force Lightning INSIDE her surrounded by hundreds of onlookers and they didn't notice a thing. Plagueis is so underrated, he was also INCREASING his Midichlorean count, making him stronger in the Force.
Man I would have loved to see a fight between Palpatine and Plaguies
Darth Plagueis set up the entire plan. He had all the right connections and had everything in place before episode 1 even began, including Palpatine's rise to Supreme Chancellor. Palpatine certainly played his part well and adapted to any unforeseen circumstances but he kind of just coasted by on someone else's work.
While somewhat true, if Palpatine wasn’t a skilled politician, he wouldn’t have succeeded. Yes Plagueis set up many connections, but it’s not like Palpatine has a literal script to follow during meetings and Plagueis was busy enough that he probably let Palpatine do a lot of them by himself. The art of diplomacy and manipulation is not an easy task. As a polar opposite, look at Jar Jar Binks, he fumbles his way through things. Palpatine is a snake in the grass that no one even thought he was a corrupted politician, nonetheless something like a Sith Lord. It’s less like Plagueis set up a row of dominoes and more like a game of chess stacked in their favor because they know their opponents so well.
Plagueis used palpatine in most of his plans palpatine put in the hard work being a political strategiest he was while staying undetected by Jedi and while
plaguies indulged in his experiments so if anything plagueis coasted on sidious’ work.
@@Oakcliffagent GiRLZ GiRLZ, U BOTH HAVE A CLAiM, C'MON NOW
[NOT YELLiNG, JUZT LiKE TYPiNG iN CAPZ]
TO GABRiEL10169, GiRLZ GiRLZ, U BOTH HAVE A CLAiM, C'MON NOW
[NOT YELLiNG, JUZT LiKE TYPiNG iN CAPZ]
I have to agree with Darth Plagueis on light sabers. If you can electrocute someone with the tip of your fingers. If you can use the force to send someone flying across the room or send objects flying towards them. And if you can force choke via television. Then why even bother with light sabers when the force is all you need.
Well if youre fighting someone that is adequately trained in the force and additionally trained in lightsaber combat. Your entire combat style would rely on keeping them far away from you. Its also easier to cut someone down with a lightsaber than relying on the force which would be physically draining reducing your ability to maintain combat for extended periods of time. Youre letting the power of the force cloud your mind
@@thunderchundering this is highlighted in the brotherhood of darkness wars
Easy - to defend against other sabers, and possibly a status symbol as well
Because the other guy can too and maybe also has a saber and is good with it. Sidious and Dooku both faced this with Yoda: Someone they couldn't overwhelm with the Force. Sidious got lucky too in that regard. He neglected his swordsmanship and it nearly cost him *twice.*
Yea, but if you're strong in the force, then your opponent having a light sabers wouldn't matter.
What a fantastic video. Can't wait to see this be used in further debates
He was no match for Palpatine's long-winded speeches.
He loves democracy
Ive said it once, I'll say it again.
Palpatine only ASSUMES he's dead. Plagueis is not dead, and Snoke would have been a perfect opportunity for him to return and fuq all kinds of shit up.
Palpatine jumped the gun on taking over. He still had more to learn and was not as strong as Plagueis in the force
I find it odd that 2 key factors got left out. 1 how Plagueis used the force to control his own body when he fought like a puppet so that he could push his body beyond its limits, not having to feel any damage he received while using this ability. 2 How Palpatine poisoned the wine he gave Plagueis which to me always went against the Rule of Two when Bane said "The mantle of Master must be taken by force, against the Jedi use poison, manipulation, every trick you can, but not with this. In order to ensure that every Sith in the Rule of Two is more powerful then the last this MUST be done"
A worthy sith would not be outsmarted or killed by deception. Those traits can be as important if not more than raw physical strength
technically ever since bane the sith have been getting weaker since a master wouldn’t teach their student everything they know and the student then kills the master so the student never learns all their master had to offer and then it just keeps repeating
Yes it's really a super dumb system. There's really no reason for a master to fully train their apprentice. Even if it had worked as designed, it assumes that "more is more" and anyone who manages to beat their master is automatically "better" in all ways. Anyone who has ever played rock-paper-scissor should know that that is not the case. Plagueis being killed while drunk doesn't exactly scream "strongest ever" either btw.
Thats not true. No sith ever taught their apprentice everything, even before Bane's line. That doesn't mean they didn't teach their apprentice how to use their strengths and specific talents in the force. Bane couldn't use sith sorcery but encouraged zanna to because she had the ability. he gave her texts on sith alchemy, and she used that knowledge to defeat him. Bane also taught that the apprentice must challenge the master when they're strong enough, not jump the master while they're asleep, like Palpatine. So if anything, the sith should be getting stronger as long as they don't pull a Palpatine.
It’s the whole point of craving power and knowledge. When you crave something, especially if fueled by the dark side, you become machiavellian, the end justifies the means, whatever the means. This is why Vader was immensely powerful but a pretty rubbish Sith in the end.
10:20 - Well, there's the answer
Sidious would've been bested by Plagueis had Plagueis not been drunk or caught off guard.
This is a brilliant presentation, I love it!
There's really no reason a Sith Lord should ever engage in a fair fight. Palpatine did well by killing his master while he was off guard. Plagueis fucked up big time by getting drunk in the presence of his apprentice, let alone falling asleep.
@@wanderhillen2435 you have no idea what you're talking about. The whole point of the Bane line was for the apprentice to become stronger than the master, THEN challenge the master to a duel, defeat the master, and train their own apprentice, repeating the process, making sure the sith only get stronger. The reason is that the dark side isn't like the light side and is best used through one being instead of thousands, like the jedi and ancient sith.
@@slthjawa5062gggghhjjjjjkkkk.
Incorrect, Bane started the rule of 2 with the thought process of “more Sith will water down the dark side” the reason why the master Must be killed by any means is so the apprentice can gain the power of being the only Sith temporarily.
@@RomanVasquez-lf4tb this guy said " incorrect " then tried to say what I said in a dumber way.🤣
@@slthjawa5062gggghhjjjjjkkkk yea palpatine went about the killing how bane intended dinkleberry
In Palpatine’s speech to his Master he said many of Plagueis’s ideas were planted by Sidious. I believe Sidious was lying. It just doesn’t make sense. Plagueis wasn’t a fool or an idiot. Just as Tarkin said: “…far too trusting “
Great video! Only slight mistake I think was that at 05:28 ish? Plagueis didn't try to fight back. He woke up, with the force gathering in him like a storm, but "stopped short of defending himself."
He "merely gazed at Sideous".
Confident that he couldn't be killed, and in denial that he was slowing suffocating (breathing mask broken from force lightning), Plagueis might have simply been experimenting with himself. Actually courting death to put it in its place.
Sideious is initially taken aback by this.
I love this description. A good example of "pride comes before a fall". But further, it leaves open the question of who would have won had Plagueis faught back straight away.
Plagueis is one of my favourite characters. That book is incredible.
great vid bro (:
Thanks to Tenebrous Plagueis has genetics on his side, despite the Dark Side and Sidious’ appeal for each other, and Palpatine grew in strength after his Master’s death.
If Plagueis was awake then I don’t think Sidious would have won that duel, or if he did it would be at a terrible cost.
I wish we'd gotten more Plagueis but after The Acolyte i'm fine with him staying in the past.
Agreed!!!
Portraying plagueis as a peeping Tom yellow eyed cave dwelling weeb was the absolute worst thing I’ve seen
Can we get Darth Bane though!?
@@MKeel9633 At this point it's best no to risk it.
@@MKeel9633I don't want anything else ruined.
Palpatine did use force powers to manipulate people, peer into the future, cloud the Jedi vision in the force. He just did it in a more subtle way. If Sheev was not as powerful as he was in the force he would have got nowhere near where he did
In Legends EU Palpatine was his name there was no Sheev or any other first name just plainly Palpatine and Palpatine had the same force potential as Galen Merek with only Most of the Skywalkers, Most Of Leias Line, And The Force Deities being the only ones having a higher count them himself yeah.
Palpatine's preferred form was niman. Also probably plagueis' preferred form as well.
It kind of makes one dwell on the Sith rankings a bit considering Plagueis' esteem for Dooku's power and skill with a saber.
Regardless of whether or not Plagueis could have killed Sidious in a fight before the former’s death, as the passage from the novel states, Palpatine’s power multiplied significantly after killing Plagueis, elevating him several levels above even one of the most powerful Sith Lords ever in Darth Plagueis. From that point on, Sidious would go on to have no equal in the dark side.
So the Palpatine we see congratulating Padme at the end of The Phantom Menace (by then he had killed Plagueis) was already far more powerful than Plagueis could ever be.
We dont know if Plagueis would also gain such an increase if he killed Palpatine.
Also bear in mind Plagueis was healing himself and de-aging with his midichlorian manipulation, which he had yet to master.
So if we put a hipothetical Revenge of the Sith Sidious and Plagueis, Sidious might be jacked up. But Plagueis would be with no need of respirator, at his 20s equivalent and with the midichlorians mastered.
@@SamCaiman14They were equals in power current wise before Sidious offed him it was not until afterwards that Sidious became far more powerful in the force then Sidious became a equal in current power to Jedi Master Dooku whose current force power at the time was noted to be near equal to Yodas yeah.
@@matthewmann8969 The point is that just like Sidious was massively powerful in ROTS compared to when he killed Plagueis, so would be plagueis if he made it to ROTS.
The rule of 2 was broken by Darth Tenebrous. He never intended to teach his apprentice everything he knew or relinquish control. Darth Plagueis managed to kill him while he was distracted, not a true defeat as Darth Bane had intended to make each successive Sith Lord stronger than the previous. The same thing happened with Darth Plagueis.
Plagueis defeated his master through a cheap trick as well.
The force told him to kill him now as he slept. That says enough. The force even knew he was strong enough yet
Great video The Stupendous Wave. I am wondering. What If Darth Sidious felt Anakin's birth?
Like he felt Anakin being born and after a year or so found out where he was born. Killed Shmi and trained him from birth to be the Prefect Sith. Reaching his Full Potential Both in Power & Darkness. Making Him Darth Sith'ari and overthrowing Sidious once Palpatine became the Emperor.
As we all know, George Lucas said that Anakin's full potential was 200% to Palpatine's 100%. But after Mustafar Vader was only 80% to Sidious 100%. But that Sidious always thought that Vader's weakness was laying more in his mind, than his body.
But what if this Darth Sith'ari reached Ultimate Sithhood in Both aspects of mind and body. And became the (Not) The Dark Lord of the Sith. (But) THE Darkest Overlord of the Sith. Reaching the roof of what any Sith ever could be in both.
Palpatine wasn’t more powerful at that point, but more intelligent and manipulative and better at taking advantage of opportunities. He did grow more powerful than Plagueis by the time of Revenge of the Sith, and by the time of ANH he was just on a whole other level
Not more intelligent, just luckier
@@Force_user57 in my experience there’s no such thing as luck. nah but fr, I mean more intelligent in a tactical sense. Pelagius was more intelligent in a mathematical and scientific sense though.
@@TenToAceStudiosthe whole plan to take over the republic was plague's plan. Sidious just followed it.
They were equal in power by The Phantom Menace Era the reason why Sidious got Plagueis intoxicated though was because if not it could of gone either way mostly due to Plagueis knowing how Palpatine fought as he directly trained him yeah.
@@matthewmann8969 They were not equal in power.
Yet Palpatine while killing Plagueis said how he and Plagueis were equal in current power then after sending Plagueis to the other side he noted he felt far more powerful currently by The Phantom Menace and went on to get Jedi Master Dooku on his side and noted that Dooku was his equal from the Jedi Order with current force abilities, lightsaber combat, and political acuman in Labyrinth Of Evil and in The Plagueis Novel noted that he had to be wary of Jedi Master Dooku when they were talking one to one in a private location mainly noting how Dooku was indeed strong in the force and could be luring him out to off him again reconfirmed or reaffirming that they were equal currently in power, skill, and political mastery yeah.
💯💯💯💯💯💯
One sometimes thinks Sidious did a little hoodwinking with regard to Dooku. If we compare their performances against mutual dueling foes, it seems the difference in power is minimal, and indeed, it is clear Dooku is the better swordsman... just as Plagueis said in the novel.
If one looks at how free a Sith, when they're the master, or even the apprentice, their freedom is so immense, and nearly limitless. They can study and train in any area of the force that they wish, yes they won't be able to use "pure" lightside abilities, but can still study them for whatever reason they want. To simply understand or cancel it out, perhaps to make their own version.
But imagine if a Jedi got this type of freedom, and was allowed to study all the areas of the force, and the Jedi have so much knowledge compared to the Sith, their knowledge is both lightside and darkside, and have many different people's holocrons to learn from. While the Sith mostly just have the previous rule of 2 Sith, and if lucky they find an older holocron from a Sith before that way of thinking/life.
That Plageius was so immensely powerful, or any rule of 2 Sith to be powerful, is fairly easy to fathom, since their freedom.
If Sidius had fought Plagueis one on one, he most certainly wouldn't manage to kill his master, but only once he gained more strength, like what he obtained when he got his freedom, after killing Plagueis
Remember this: The dark side corrupts and destroys your body. Training in the dark side is foolish as the cost will be your destruction. As Yoda wisely said, the dark side may seem easier, but it is not stronger; in fact, it is weaker when analyzed carefully.
It’s just like what Ichigo’s zanpakuto said. Palpatine is a war horse, the moment he senses weakness he will buck his master off and trample him to death
Yup the power of the horse and his rider it boils down to instinct
Considering Luceno is the one who fleshed out the character with Lucas only providing the name I think he knows best
Didn’t plagueis kill his master when he was trapped under some rocks or something I can’t remember
Heck yeah.
I think it is interesting that Plagueis would win and I think I know why: Plagueis has mastered exerting his will over the mediclorians. Our proof of this is what he did with Darth Venimus. This is something that would take time given that Sidious has more mediclorians and is similarly powerful he does not understand his masters work and is unprepared. I see this happening in a similar way with Bane and Zana where Bane tried to take over Zana’s body via essence transfer
It would end in the way it almost truly began with the master taking power back from the apprentice.
Most excellent video
Honestly, the fact that there is no official source or statement saying that Palpatine grew stronger between TPM and ROTS will always make me sceptical about the outcome of this type of comparison
Exactly lol. People just assumed that Palpatine grew in power without providing evidence like feats or statements. The only statement I can think of is in the Legends Darth Plagueis novel, Palpatine felt he grew stronger immediately after killing Plagueis, but this "feeling" isn't backed up by improved Force/combat feats compared to when Plagueis was alive. It doesn't even prove if Palpatine's supposed increase in power made him equal or superior to Plagueis since it's purely a subjective statement. If anything Palpatine would likely have gotten a little rusty (combat wise at least) since he's now the Master with no Sith to directly rival him in like 15+ years
Exactly this is not Highlander you don't absorb the persons kowlage and power @@jaredevans8263
While Sidious was eliminating Plagueis he noted that they were equal in current force power which would place them noticeably or highly above The Phantom Menace Maul as force users at that time then once Palpatine noted he got majorly more powerful in the force after taking out Hego Demask he went on to get Jedi Master Dooku on his side but was pretty reluctant on revealing himself to the Count mostly due to him sensing Dooku was indeed strong in the force and could be luring him out to kill him and this is when they were talking one on one in a very private location too and in Labyrinth Of Evil that same Sids that went to get the count to side with him noted how Jedi Master Dooku within The Phantom Menace Era was his equal from the jedi order in three ways in current force power, lightsaber combat, and political acuman yeah.
PLAGUIES My absolute favorite novel of all genres put together
This is kind of the Rule Of Two's biggest flaw, the lax attitude leads to the apprentice passing when they are not truly worthy, close perhaps but sometimes not quite there. Either do to the master's potential hubris or an apprentice getting lucky. Either way, thiscan open up possibilities of students graduating without having learned all they could. This is why, if you're going to tolerate this, you need Sith holocrons. It should be a moment of "congratulations you bastard, I never saw that coming, before I die don't forget to finish your training. My holocron is stored here." if this was going to be so accepted and potentailly common. In the situations like Sedius, the loss wouldn't have mattered if he could have simply picked up the holocron within hours after killing his master to resume his training. The master being better at some skills would rarely matter if the apprentice truly learned everything and the difference was do to small factors like one being of a species or as an individual that is better at a specific skill. At that point just wait until the next dark lord is someone who is also naturally gifted at that skill. At least everything would be passed on. The idea that the force told him to allow himself to be weaker is kind of funny. "Kill that old drunk, don't finish your training, everything will be fine." If plaguis was truly this strong, that's a matter of luck more than anything.Luck in that none of the Rule Of Two Sith were as stupid as his apprentice and himself. I suppose there was that one that was driven mad by trying to use the light side so even more potential was squandered with the knowledge that lord of the Sith destroyed. The Jedi lose their power from not believing they need it, softening from peace and being ruined by hubris. The Sith are weakened by the allure of the power and the desire for more instant gratification, do to their selfishness and the fact that using the dark side at all means your time is more limited unless you find a way to cheat the system.
What if The Stupendous Wave was in the Prequel Era and the Original Trilgoy in starwars? Aka surviving order 66
Because he knew the "Power of many..." from Star Wars Acolyte... It's a good thing that the series was canceled and it couldn't hurt Plagueis' story.
4:47 The Cave where Lord Voldemort a.k.a. Tom Marvolo Riddle hid his Salazar Slytherin Locket Horcrux in The Harry Potter series.
He a scientist NOT suprise he knew how to use the FORCE. EFFCIENTLY
Plagueis was an individual who could literally shape the Force in whatever twisted ways as possible.
Alternative title: Star Wars Author writes self fulfilling prophecy confirming an idea someone had before he wrote it. Wooooosh
I would have loved to she these two in a full on fight
Meh. Why would a proper Sith ever engage in a fair fight? Much better to kill a dangerous opponent while they're unconscious than if they have even the slightest chance of killing you.
I just wanted to thank you guys for this piece! It was very good, covering 2 of my favorite Sith Lords ! Darth Plegueis the Wise, as I always call him, could defeat Sidious ! Except for one thing. Darth Sidious was destined to be the fulfillment of the grand plan, in my opinion! Darth Sidious wasn't flawless. However, the way he executed the grand plan was nothing but flawless!
I think it would make a cool “what if” video. If Plagueis managed to defeat Palpatine, I believe he would have used astral projection but made himself to look like Palpatine. He would have followed through on his original plan to appoint Plagueis’ alter ego Hego Demask as co-chancellor. Then, he would have faked Palpatine’s death and inherited the full chancellorship at that point. I don’t know where the story goes from there but it’s a start
I don't think that would have worked. Force hiding was one thing, but something like am astral projection would certainly have been noticed by the jedi
@@unigaming9921 In Last Jedi Luke was able to astral project and fool Kylo Ren into thinking it was him. Everyone could be felt in the force, including Palpatine. It’s not entirely out of the realm of possibility that he could project Palpatine and mimic his signature in the force
@wonderquestor kylo was an emotional idiot fueled by edge lord anger, Rey was a novice, and Leia almost certainly knew it was an illusion.
@@wonderquestor I think it's so lame he died from that
@@unigaming9921 He was the grandson of Vader. I wasn’t a fan of his portrayal but he was pretty powerful. He would have had a familial as well as master-student bond with Luke. Him not being able to sense it was a projection meant Luke must have done a good job in making sure the projection had his signature on the force
Shout out star wars theory for putting me on this channel
Such an amazing book!! I think if he wasn't drunk while asleep he would have been the one to survive
Considering what Palpatine said to Anakin about the fact that Plagueis had the power to stop people from dying, as well as that it was Plagueis that brought Anakin into being and not his apprentice that I agree, Plagueis (even in death) was still fighting his apprentice, long after he seemed to not exist proves he is more deceiving than Palpatine
It's not an easy choice for me. Darth Plagueis is very potent, and capable, but he's also VERY aware of that, and it can go to his head. More than that, though, there were windows of time when you might say he wasn't actually training Palpatine, and the younger Sith might not have even seen his Master for a bit. In those times, I can imagine Sidious figuring stuff out that maybe Plagueis wouldn't just be able to say "I know you; I trained you, and everything you know came from ME!", which could leave Plagueis on a back foot, needing to re-gauge his apprentice's current skills, and range, in a fight where any one mistake would mean death. Saying that, I'd still be inclined, at that point, to give it to the Muun Master. Palpatine was also often very arrogant, and even he feared fighting his master. He tried circuitous routes, like sending a bomb to Sojourn, hoping to nuke his master from orbit (in sci-fi, it's often the only way to be sure 😊), and then took advantage of Plagueis being inebriated. He KNEW he didn't want to wage a head on battle with Plagueis, blade or Force, because he felt he wouldn't win, until the Force said "do it NOW!"
Unrelated, but this might honestly be one of the few things I DIDN'T like about the Plagueis novel; chapter 2, and on, he's the Master. It's obviously the point, but I personally might have enjoyed the book even more if we had spent more time with a younger Hego Damask, being trained by the calculating Darth Tenebrous. Maybe it's just that I personally want more Tenebrous content, but Hego didn't exactly spend a great deal of his early life with his father, his family, or his species. When Rugess Nome appeared, one day, Hego was still young enough to have his father be able to say "He's come for you, and we are giving you to him, as we agreed", so while he knew (and didn't like) his family, and one might say he acted as a Muun probably would, it might have been more fun to see just how much of an influence Tenebrous actually had on the shaping of who Darth Plagueis turned out to be, despite often not liking one another, or the times when Tenebrous didn't seem to be really training his apprentice. We know how Plagueis got to the top, and his own peak, but it still might have been cool to see more of it. That's just me, though.
I think Plagueis was the fulfillment of the Sith Grand Plan but the Darkside rejected him because of his views on the force. Sidious first tried to blow him with a nuclear device and once that didn’t work he got him drunk. If Sidious didn’t kill him when he did most likely Plagueis would’ve grown in power exponentially and nobody probably would’ve stopped.
There is a reason Palpatine waited until plaguies was drunk and asleep
Also I don’t know if you will see this comment. But I wanted to suggest maybe doing a theory video. What would happen if King Adas was reinstated met Plagueis and Sidious.
Considering he is the first and most powerful Sith of all time. I am curious is Sidious would be a suck up because of how much he wanted to be the Sith’ari but wasn’t worthy nor powerful enough for the title. Truth be told I feel like King Adas would not only have questions but he might try to kill Sidious and the Jedi themselves after finding out his people were near extinct and I’m hiding from the Jedi including Sidious and Plagueis due too the Sith having no choice but to die, flee and give in to the rule of two. I mean King Adas knew the Sith’s blood thurst better then any Sith, god or Jedi combined. So I guess my questions would be…
1. Would King Adas rally the last of the Sith PureBloods that are still alive as well as their ancient cousins the Massassei?
2. Would he Force the current Sith to bend the knee of kill them where they stood
3. Go on a complete rampage on the remaining Jedi and Sith as well as the Galaxy (which let’s be honest. Give the Sith King a ship and he could probably do that with ease)
4. Try to bring back his race with an Ancient Sith Ritual only he would know about?
5. Would he make a new Sith Empire under his rule once more giving in a bit to let anyone with the Darkside of the force become apart of his Empire
Or 6. Lastly being possibly making a new ritual to create a new type of PureBlooded Sith.
Either way I think it would be cool. We got theories on how Tenebrae the immortal Empire would rule if he returned. But I wanna know what the Sith’ari himself would think. No Sith dared Challenge King Adas and he would see right through Sidious and his master’s lies and attempts to trick him. After all if anyone will see through Sidious’s lies it’s the Sith’ari himself. I don’t think King Adas would sit idly by especially after learning that the 2 main reasons for his race’s extinction was The Sith Emperor Tenebrae and The Jedi. I would add Bane but Bane’s mass genocide doesn’t even come close to Tenebrae and what the Jedi did but King Adas would probably be pissed at them all none the less
You guys have to listen to the Darth Plagueis audiobook, it's great listen!!!
I think that if sidious believed he could win without destroying the respirator, he would have. He knew it was his only chance.
When Sidious killed his master Plagueis he got upgraded to a newer level in the dark side since its by tradition of the Sith for the apprentice to evolve and surpass to usurp the master to becoming Dark Lord and those same teachings would have been passed on over had Vader not lost his duel on Mustafar with his full potential as the ultimate being kept in tact
This is great story! I think Sidious would win. But fight was disappointing. Dark side congratulated Palpatine,his anointing. Ancient Sith Lords congratulated too,they despised Plagueis. It was time. May the Force be with you too😊
Everything transpired as the Force itself wanted!!! Just like the Kenobi & Anakin mustafar fight it had to happen that way in order for Darth Vader (cyborg Vader) to be who he is and how we know him!!! Even Quigon Jin told Yoda on Dagoba that he wasn’t and couldn’t win against Darth Sidious, it would be nice to see Anakin on his Full Chosen one potential… and how Ahsoka would’ve turned out
I think plagueis would have won,but I need to read this novel. I'm not very informed when it comes to this,sounds awesome. I just think plagueis would have hidden certain info from palpatine to keep the upperhand as palpatine did with dooku and vader etc. No doubt palpatine was strong but not at that time,it even seems as if the rule of two was splitting the dark side energy between them. Maybe that's why the force called to him to kill his master as well as the experiments and what not. Maybe plagueis transferred his power as his last act in that form? So many possibilities it seems. His videos are always so thought provoking i love it
Reti and Evan made a fanfix for Plagueis's death. Instead of getting him wasted, Plagueis exhausts himself reviving Venamis, and then Sidious strikes him down.
I think about it this way. Sidious, proud as he was, still decided to first get his master drunk, then get him while he slept, purposefully targeting his master’s weak point. That’s not the Sidious who knew he would win, I think he is confident he would lose any other way.
Just hearing the things Plagueis could do at a moment's notice is terrifying. Sidious isn't a lightweight, but I would give Plagueis a slight edge
I always thought that the point of the Sith rule of 2 was that the Sith order always kept getting stronger. Sidious was the most powerful rule of 2 Sith. Only Anakin at full strength could have beaten him.
Or Galen Merek who had equal force potential to Sidious or Luke yeah.
We need a battle front Star Wars game where you can use earth plagueis as a character that’d be cool.
Here from SW Theory. Anyone who doesn't jump on the idiotic hate bandwagon to try and get people cancelled because they are insanely jealous and don't like their opinion is okay in my book. Looking forward to making my way through your content.
Plagueis was a fool to underestimate me. After I killed him, I grew far more stronger and by the time of the Dark Empire, I was more powerful than he could possibly imagine.
And yet you died to a regular man with a blaster. :D
@@ASNS117Zero I came back and almost gained immortality. But, you know, sometimes sith happens.
I do agree that the dark side seems to have conspired against plagueis. He didn't even want an apprentice, until Palpatine appeared. He seems to have been tempted, and fell into hubris.
I would’ve expected Plagueis to be the slightly more powerful one and Palpatine having to be the one to outsmart his master.
omg yes yes, this video is so good. Always said hes the best. Yes....
Plagueis didn't attack him he laughed at him thinking he couldn't kill him because he thought he had unlocked his midichlorians to that level and his arrogance got the best of him
Sidious never used the starkiller move as it was move that if not done correctly could vaporize him as well. If plagueis could pull off that move he would. Palpatine would have died.
My ULTIMATE Star Wars dream is to see a sober 1 v 1 between Plagueis and Palpatine!!
Yeah, and not made by Disney
PREACH IT BRO!! I COULDNT AGREE MORE!!
@@bigjimtenbillion
I've been listening to the novel after I finish like a different audiobook
That's why Sidious had Maul and Dooku.
Star wars got more lore and stories than any other Universe
I think people overestimate Sidious because he's the film villain.
People overestimate Sidious because he gets absolutely *wanked* in the narrative by the narrator specifically in almost all Star Wars EU media, even when doing so doesn't make sense.
Going by just the films actually portrays him in his weakest possible light, funnily enough.
I mean in Legends EU his midichlorian count was one of the few to actually be higher then Yodas own by a large amount and he had one equal to Galen Marek and the only ones with a higher natural force connection to Sidious were The Force Deities, Most Of The Skywalker Line, And Most Of Leias Line yeah.
I thought this video was about a sequel to the Plageuis novel.
There is only one force feat that Sidious doesn’t posses: and thats manipulation of midichlorions the only cheat code Plagueis would have at his disposal in the force
Make this a movie or series and get all the acolyte money back.
Had Plageous been awake when Sidious tried to kill him, I think it would have been no contest AT THE TIME. Sidious's power when Plageous died was nowhere near enough to challenge his master in open combat during the Phantom Menace.
According the the author and Sidious himself they were equals in current power by TPM Era with Sidious only becoming more powerful currently then his pre boost self and Plagueis after he took out Hego then post boosted Sidious noted in both The Darth Plagueis Novel And Labyrinth Of Evil Novel that Jedi Master Dooku as of The Phantom Menace Era was his equal from the jedi order not just in current force power(Jedi Arts) but also in lightsaber combat(A Master Duelist), And Political Acuman(A Political Visionary) and noted that Dooku before pledging himself to the order of the sith lords while they were talking alone in a private spot was indeed strong in the force and could be luring him out to kill him and that instead of a lightsaber duel to the death there had been much discussion note Sidious did not think of who would win in fight to the death between the two of them but didn't want to risk it as confirmed before Jedi Master Dooku was equal to post boosted Sidious in power, skill, and political management by TPM Era and Dooku at that time was known to be second only to Yoda in the order when it came to current force abilities a close second because even during the late clone wars Yoda thought of which student of the order would be strongest in the force to either battle against him and or aid him as a accomplice and the only ones with high enough force ceiling to make that conversation where Anakin And Dooku Dooku who had a equal force natural connection to Yoda and Anakin that had a much higher then both and Dooku currently even as a Jedi Master was so hugely powerful current wise in the force that Yoda said this in front of the entire council in person to there faces including in front of Windu yeah.
@TheStupendousWave You at least know that DE Palpatine claps Hego the unwise right? I mean, you’ve read the DE comics
Sidious killed him because he found out he was a peeping Tom
Yes his heart was in active failure but remember his special had many hearts
Plagueis can be dead. He must have known the time was coming that Palpatine would try to kill him. Maybe Plagueis wanted Palpatine to kill him.
It’s been stated that the dark and light side of the force both have wills of their own, if Plageuis respected the will of the force and the less scientific aspects of the force do you think the dark side would of still convinced Palpetine too kill him then
The spirit of marka ragnos didn't deemed plagueis and papaltine worthy of his time
I think at the time of The phantom menace I don't think the Jedi council knew about Darth plagueis
Lol i don't think it matters whether i agree or disagree with Luceno. If the creator of some of the lore says that's how it is, it's their story.
So there really does seem to be a finite amount of the force in the Universe and the Rule of Two was a cheap way to both concentrate it and obtain it.
Interesting he took advantage of the same weakness of plageus and vader
I would say at that time Plagueis had more experience which could have given him the edge however Palpatine was stronger overall, that is just my thought on it.
I think that the accumulated Dark Side Power of a Sith can be inherited by killing the Sith.
In this way, the Rule of 2 allows for each Successive Sith to generate more and more power over time, like an Evil version of One for All from MHA. So prior to killing his master, Palpatine was weaker. After killing him and inheriting the accumulated dark side power himself, he was of course stronger.
It would be a close fight, neither able to outright overpower the other.
I get Sidious went for the easy kill.
I don’t know if he was a 100% certain he could be beat Plagueis straight up.
W3 had him in acolyte. But we will never get plauges
I think the dark side said "do it now" because Sidious needed Plagueis inebriated and vulnerable. Frankly, I dont think it would've been close otherwise.
Plagueis Is A Tank And His Size Would Have Clearly Meant that He Was Naturally Physically Stronger Then Most People Definitely Vastly Stronger Then Humans
How old was Sidious when he died? I do not recall seeing anyone state this.
It was the time of TPM
If Darth Sidious had fought Darth Plagueis at that point head-on, I think he would have lasted for some time, but ultimately, I think Plagueis would have won.
In short siddious would never have snuck plagues if he could beat him head on he’d have loved to revel in the kill of his master through sheer brutality with the force