Here's my analysis of pros and cons between this and mario kart: Triangle/uptime strat: pros: smaller number of lines that affect other roles (as compared to clock spread / ffa), 3/4 roles are out on the wall allowing better visibility and smaller movement on average, should be almost always full uptime for all roles cons: the difficulty distribution is skewed against melees, especially tanks - they'll have harder time dodging and staying aware of all the lines that go through the middle. It also asks for higher individual skill on average as you will need to do lots of small dodges. Mario kart strat: pros: easy to understand the general movement, decent chance of success on average, does not require individual skill often cons: most amount of movement required, heavily dependent on MT piloting skill, if people are not stacked together for 1st bait or split on cw/ccw for 1st movement it can cause chain reaction of bad baits. Also, it's not very likely, but certain bait patterns can make it very difficult and will probably result in wipes I think mario kart is still the better strat on average for pf simply because it requires less individual solve. But if you have competent players who can use eyes, I think triangle/uptime strat is better
MK strat is and always was dogshit. Its obviously easier to carry this one out without deaths. Melees got the hardest job here as they got a bad camera angle not seeing the whole field. For everyone else this is straight up free. There is a reason why in normal mode (yes, its the exact same mech) much less people die to this than in savage, and this reason is no MK.
I really feel for the tanks who theoretically have 360 bee threat versus the other 3 groups with the benefit of a wall behind them. You end up relying on your MT for Mario Kart, but you still move along the wall which helps. It's a good idea, but I have a hard time pitching this to the static. I still think Alarm Pheromones is just an MT mechanic to make things tolerable for the other 7 and trying to force order into the chaos is overcomplicating it.
I feel this makes all melees job x10 harder than it needs to be because now they have to dodge the ranged bait if the bee spawns in the north and it's very friendly towards the ranged. Like even the RPR and PCT got hit in PoV 3.
We did this strat and it's absolutely punishing for melees for that exact reason. They have to watch so much more of the arena that it typically means 1 or 2 will get hit. Ranged have the time of their life but you're punishing melee to give ranged more dps in a fight where the dps check is already a breeze.
Mario Kart makes melee 1000 times harder cuz we're constantly running from the boss AND forced to dodge literally every drill because they're always aimed at the boss because we're ALL AT THE BOSS. Mario Kart is only popular because it's brain-dead for baby's first raiders who can't be trusted to do something as simple as Turn 9 simple as fuck meteors correctly. It always relies on luck and sacrifice, often too many sacrifices this time around because everyone below 720 is so weak it's impossible to win without DPS LB3 and in many cases, without TWO DPS LBs.
@@hiddenmaster6062 you don't get to talk about baby's first raid when being below ilvl720 is still an issue for you. LOL We were barely seeing rotten heart on week 2 and melee were still get 100% uptime no matter what strat is used 😂
I see, so the reason you keep the tanks split compared to the shown JP concept is that it reduces the numbers of bees guaranteed to be baited by each subgroup. The JP one would have an 8/4/4 split where this has 4/4/4/4.
I think this is called triangle bait. I hopped over to the EU data center and saw "MK triangle" but couldn't find any videos or descriptions of it. I hope to see this soon in game myself
this seems way more hectic than mario cart, at least with mario cart if the group sticks together you have a good idea that the lines pointing where you where 8 seconds ago are going off next and you can plan accordingly. with this strat you're going to know when your lines are going off but its going to be a lot to focus on the other groups lines.
No, this is way easier. You just move three steps and then back again, meanwhile you are continuing to keep damage on the boss which is the more important thing. MK, you are too busy running and dodging that you don't have the uptime om the boss. You are looking at almost a 10% damage difference in the boss's health bar, making mario kart the clear loser here. Less chances to deal with enrage, faster clear times, easier to dodge, can't see why people would use Mario Kart except they are too lazy to learn the proper mechanic.
are there any guarantees about the baiting order, other than every player getting one bee before someone gets a second? such as do the bees perhaps alternate between targeting a support vs a dps, and do bees 9-16 target players in the same order as bees 1-8 did?
Mariokart is only marginally better than just standing whereever, and is immediately sabotaged by people who walk away from the group triggering bee traps. In short, yeah it's p bad - especially in pf.
@@zangeh Actually I think MK is worse than yolo because everyone stacking together. can be really really nasty. Also a nightmare for healer and casters.
My static has been trying this but went back to mario kart because of there being an 80% chance of being trapped with no where to go. Mario kart is not bad, party finder is just bad at everything.
I had a different version that was shorter and more efficient, but a lot of people got mad, so I made a longer version that explained it more indepth and it seems to be going over better.
The original video was 3 minutes long, but people complained because it was too short and they didn't understand. I would rather people complain about it being too long than too short.
In my experience, the way I usually get hit in this mechanic is when I'm targeted by a bee on the other side of the arena. Because the marker only goes halfway across, if you're fully across the arena from the bee targeting you, the visual cue is much more subtle and hard to see. This strat seems to be the worst of the three for how often this will happen. Yolo center will never have it happen because nobody is out at the edge, and in mario kart you aren't standing still long enough for a far bait to still be far by the time it actually goes off. That said, I'm still interested to try this and if I see any reclear PFs with it next Tuesday I'll hop in.
Except because of how Mario Kart works, you have the highest amount of chances for bees from all directions to target the party giving no room to dodge at all. I have seen this happen many time where the party would wipe because there was no where to go for everyone because of how the bees spawned. This mechanic doesn't have that issue at all, you just have to watch for the far bees which you need to practice doing anyways (like most raids you need to look away from the boss and see the area around you for attacks, this is no different). You already know you can see the bee lines from the edge you are up against, so looking directly across the map would make it really easy to see the lines you would normally miss. You already have lines for everywhere else, so only 3 or 4 bees need to be your focus here.
Have you noticed any order that bees spawn? I say that because Mouser appears random too, but it's really just two patterns. Or, could the boss's order of attacks before this point indicate which bee spawn pattern? I think there are 16 combinations of mechanics possible preceding this - 4 times where the boss chooses one or the other type of attack. There are optimum bait spots depending on the spawn pattern, so if you can predict the spawn pattern, you can trivialise this mechanic. What do you think?
This seems like a good strat a great one if possible imo would be ranged/melee split into two groups just to be a little simpler and quicker to position for. I could see people getting weird with which side is for the heal which is for the ranged, flipping it around, y'know PF stuff.
I wanna clarify something really quick, 1 mario kart is bad for casters but has the most consistent one out of every strat that made for pheremones specially when you compare to this strat. Some people in comments already said it's bad for melees and that's why makes this strat horrible at consistency, although i'm talking about pheremone mechanics movement consistency and the impact of wiping group or not. I completely disagree that you said mario kart bad it's not if you compared to this strat and check the consistency. Although Mech is super rng and there's no way to guess where will be adds spawns. The most consistent way is doing mario kart. If two range baits adds from north it's completely done and that's wipes the consistency for this strat.
Actually, Mario Kart is bad for everyone because of the randomness of where the bees appear. Because everyone needs to be together and you can't get 8 people to dodge exactly the same way and move exactly the same way, Mario Kart ALWAYS becomes a run around and dodge mechanic. This affects the uptime on the boss and increases the chances of seeing enrage instead of clearing. Mario Kart has ALWAYS been bad in every dungeon, defending it because it is what you are used to is the reason why PF is bad.
I agree, I showed it to my team, and they complained after it failed 2 times. They're comfortable running around like headless chickens ☹ it pains me as a melee dps, but it is what it is, thanks for the guide.
Why? It's a garbage strat. Mk is a consistent bad but not terrible. It's predictability is why it's the better strat. This strat and others get blessed patterns that make them great but when they don't (90% of the time) it's guaranteed to send someone into the wall.
"i dont wanna learn new strats, i wanna follow week one strats cause im a stick in the mud waaaaah. Also im mostly certain this guy has better parses than you.
He called it bad because Mario Kart is historically bad. It was used in MANY raids and trials in the past when people were not smart enough to figure out the mechanic right away. Eventually someone like Kobe would come along and explain the mechanic to impatient people and get them to learn the right way of doing things. There is a reason we gave up using Mario Kart for dropping the red and green meteors .... Mario Kart is ALWAYS bad and the go to when people are not smart enough to figure out the mechanic. Just how it has always been!
I mean is that not exactly the reason why MK exists and people use it? Because people who insist on MK are unable to use their eyes or think for themselves?
I was in a pf wiating for people to join and they wanted to do Mario cart, i was trying to explain to them how it was a bad strat and there are other, better eays to handle it and theybkicked me from the party. People are way too attached to week one strats.
I was also once kicked out of a group when it was not reclear yet. After several tries (we didnt wipe there nor was the issue this mech at all) I was asked if I would run with the group and I said no, its shit. MK strat is dogshit and it never made this mech easier.
Nah as much as I hate MK, you don't walk into someone else's house and whine about how the furniture is arranged. *You're* the one joining the party. You do what the party wants or what the party listing said. If you don't like it, you shouldn't of joined. Leave and make your own party with the strats you want, otherwise you don't get to complain. No one's forcing you to join parties you dislike, so you don't get to join *other people's* parties and demand they do it your way. Just grow a pair and make your own listing instead of whining at people for using strats *you* chose to join into. You earned the kick.
Here's my analysis of pros and cons between this and mario kart:
Triangle/uptime strat:
pros: smaller number of lines that affect other roles (as compared to clock spread / ffa), 3/4 roles are out on the wall allowing better visibility and smaller movement on average, should be almost always full uptime for all roles
cons: the difficulty distribution is skewed against melees, especially tanks - they'll have harder time dodging and staying aware of all the lines that go through the middle. It also asks for higher individual skill on average as you will need to do lots of small dodges.
Mario kart strat:
pros: easy to understand the general movement, decent chance of success on average, does not require individual skill often
cons: most amount of movement required, heavily dependent on MT piloting skill, if people are not stacked together for 1st bait or split on cw/ccw for 1st movement it can cause chain reaction of bad baits. Also, it's not very likely, but certain bait patterns can make it very difficult and will probably result in wipes
I think mario kart is still the better strat on average for pf simply because it requires less individual solve. But if you have competent players who can use eyes, I think triangle/uptime strat is better
@@Lilybellmusic I would agree with pretty much all of this yeah
This whole "MK doesnt need individual skill just follow MT" is why MK is bad
@@EurrikkeEdwardbut everyone just ducks off after the initial dodge and yolos
you forgot one pro about mario kart, how fricking funny it is when 4 people die to the wrong dodge
MK strat is and always was dogshit. Its obviously easier to carry this one out without deaths. Melees got the hardest job here as they got a bad camera angle not seeing the whole field. For everyone else this is straight up free. There is a reason why in normal mode (yes, its the exact same mech) much less people die to this than in savage, and this reason is no MK.
they should call this strat Kobees in PF /hj
You really stretched this to 10 mins
Blud needed that ad revenue money
Be aware UA-cam shifted this to 12 minutes and nobody actually paid attention
Me and my static tried this strat for 1 pull and we one shot it, insanely good.
I really feel for the tanks who theoretically have 360 bee threat versus the other 3 groups with the benefit of a wall behind them. You end up relying on your MT for Mario Kart, but you still move along the wall which helps. It's a good idea, but I have a hard time pitching this to the static. I still think Alarm Pheromones is just an MT mechanic to make things tolerable for the other 7 and trying to force order into the chaos is overcomplicating it.
I feel this makes all melees job x10 harder than it needs to be because now they have to dodge the ranged bait if the bee spawns in the north and it's very friendly towards the ranged. Like even the RPR and PCT got hit in PoV 3.
We did this strat and it's absolutely punishing for melees for that exact reason. They have to watch so much more of the arena that it typically means 1 or 2 will get hit.
Ranged have the time of their life but you're punishing melee to give ranged more dps in a fight where the dps check is already a breeze.
Mario Kart makes melee 1000 times harder cuz we're constantly running from the boss AND forced to dodge literally every drill because they're always aimed at the boss because we're ALL AT THE BOSS. Mario Kart is only popular because it's brain-dead for baby's first raiders who can't be trusted to do something as simple as Turn 9 simple as fuck meteors correctly. It always relies on luck and sacrifice, often too many sacrifices this time around because everyone below 720 is so weak it's impossible to win without DPS LB3 and in many cases, without TWO DPS LBs.
@@hiddenmaster6062 you don't get to talk about baby's first raid when being below ilvl720 is still an issue for you. LOL
We were barely seeing rotten heart on week 2 and melee were still get 100% uptime no matter what strat is used 😂
@@1braincellwhm Oh here we go with the made up shit again. What's next? They went to their cards around Bee and spun around?
@@hiddenmaster6062 mad cause bad and it shows. Lol 😂🤡
hardest mech of the tier
I see, so the reason you keep the tanks split compared to the shown JP concept is that it reduces the numbers of bees guaranteed to be baited by each subgroup. The JP one would have an 8/4/4 split where this has 4/4/4/4.
It also lets melees get away with using True North less for their positionals
I think this is called triangle bait. I hopped over to the EU data center and saw "MK triangle" but couldn't find any videos or descriptions of it. I hope to see this soon in game myself
They gonna continue to use MK. Because the tier is basically done brother.
Nothing bad for uploading this as it can still help static still trying to optimize.
damn this guy is cool... or someone that got offended. Who knows
Mario kart is good if you all move together with sprint up. You can get full uptime as well.
Yeah, the mathematical chances of everyone moving uniform based on mario kart's crazy lines ... I have a bridge for sale ...
I hope this is the bee all and end all of this for good
this seems way more hectic than mario cart, at least with mario cart if the group sticks together you have a good idea that the lines pointing where you where 8 seconds ago are going off next and you can plan accordingly. with this strat you're going to know when your lines are going off but its going to be a lot to focus on the other groups lines.
No, this is way easier. You just move three steps and then back again, meanwhile you are continuing to keep damage on the boss which is the more important thing. MK, you are too busy running and dodging that you don't have the uptime om the boss. You are looking at almost a 10% damage difference in the boss's health bar, making mario kart the clear loser here. Less chances to deal with enrage, faster clear times, easier to dodge, can't see why people would use Mario Kart except they are too lazy to learn the proper mechanic.
are there any guarantees about the baiting order, other than every player getting one bee before someone gets a second? such as do the bees perhaps alternate between targeting a support vs a dps, and do bees 9-16 target players in the same order as bees 1-8 did?
You ask a good question, that is something worth investigating.
is mario kart bad or are ffxiv players unable to dodge
Mariokart is only marginally better than just standing whereever, and is immediately sabotaged by people who walk away from the group triggering bee traps. In short, yeah it's p bad - especially in pf.
@@zangeh Actually I think MK is worse than yolo because everyone stacking together. can be really really nasty. Also a nightmare for healer and casters.
It's okay if people do it right and know how to dodge but can get messy from one person messing up
@@HRFleur cleared with MK strat since week 1 as sage , not a problem for healers... only tank is taking damage
it can be very dangerous.
My static has been trying this but went back to mario kart because of there being an 80% chance of being trapped with no where to go. Mario kart is not bad, party finder is just bad at everything.
bro am I having a stroke why is your character so SLIPPERY? Homie is SLIDING through mechanics.
it might be duty recorder, dunno tho haven't used that feature before
I don't know why this took 10 minutes to explain, but appreciate you for the explanation at least!
I had a different version that was shorter and more efficient, but a lot of people got mad, so I made a longer version that explained it more indepth and it seems to be going over better.
why is it 10 mins for a strat wtf
The original video was 3 minutes long, but people complained because it was too short and they didn't understand.
I would rather people complain about it being too long than too short.
@@bigkobelive I see thank u for explaining
In my experience, the way I usually get hit in this mechanic is when I'm targeted by a bee on the other side of the arena. Because the marker only goes halfway across, if you're fully across the arena from the bee targeting you, the visual cue is much more subtle and hard to see. This strat seems to be the worst of the three for how often this will happen. Yolo center will never have it happen because nobody is out at the edge, and in mario kart you aren't standing still long enough for a far bait to still be far by the time it actually goes off.
That said, I'm still interested to try this and if I see any reclear PFs with it next Tuesday I'll hop in.
Except because of how Mario Kart works, you have the highest amount of chances for bees from all directions to target the party giving no room to dodge at all. I have seen this happen many time where the party would wipe because there was no where to go for everyone because of how the bees spawned. This mechanic doesn't have that issue at all, you just have to watch for the far bees which you need to practice doing anyways (like most raids you need to look away from the boss and see the area around you for attacks, this is no different). You already know you can see the bee lines from the edge you are up against, so looking directly across the map would make it really easy to see the lines you would normally miss. You already have lines for everywhere else, so only 3 or 4 bees need to be your focus here.
Why do you keep the melees north and tanks at the center?
Uptime for melees on flank and rear. That's what I'd assume.
Tanks still get attacked by Autos by Honey B during the attack and this gets them closer to the healers
Have you noticed any order that bees spawn? I say that because Mouser appears random too, but it's really just two patterns.
Or, could the boss's order of attacks before this point indicate which bee spawn pattern? I think there are 16 combinations of mechanics possible preceding this - 4 times where the boss chooses one or the other type of attack.
There are optimum bait spots depending on the spawn pattern, so if you can predict the spawn pattern, you can trivialise this mechanic. What do you think?
As far as we know the order the bees spawn is random.
This seems like a good strat a great one if possible imo would be ranged/melee split into two groups just to be a little simpler and quicker to position for. I could see people getting weird with which side is for the heal which is for the ranged, flipping it around, y'know PF stuff.
if people would just learn to chill out and bait multiple lines before moving literally any strat would be better. did nobody do criterion???
what a bad mechanic lol. who could have guessed the most contentious mechanic in M2S would be straight out of Normal
I wanna clarify something really quick, 1 mario kart is bad for casters but has the most consistent one out of every strat that made for pheremones specially when you compare to this strat. Some people in comments already said it's bad for melees and that's why makes this strat horrible at consistency, although i'm talking about pheremone mechanics movement consistency and the impact of wiping group or not. I completely disagree that you said mario kart bad it's not if you compared to this strat and check the consistency. Although Mech is super rng and there's no way to guess where will be adds spawns. The most consistent way is doing mario kart. If two range baits adds from north it's completely done and that's wipes the consistency for this strat.
tldr
Actually, Mario Kart is bad for everyone because of the randomness of where the bees appear. Because everyone needs to be together and you can't get 8 people to dodge exactly the same way and move exactly the same way, Mario Kart ALWAYS becomes a run around and dodge mechanic. This affects the uptime on the boss and increases the chances of seeing enrage instead of clearing. Mario Kart has ALWAYS been bad in every dungeon, defending it because it is what you are used to is the reason why PF is bad.
What a waste of time yoko is even better 😂
Kobe. You were right. M4S is all about EE2 prog lol and a bit of sunrise sabbath prog ^^
I agree, I showed it to my team, and they complained after it failed 2 times. They're comfortable running around like headless chickens ☹ it pains me as a melee dps, but it is what it is, thanks for the guide.
Sadly this is the issue with party finder, no one wants to change the routine because they are too lazy to learn.
Man i aint taking strat "tips" from the guy who made the Criterion guides with misinformation bruh
cries in aloalo kobe guides :")
This and right!
This strat is so bad its a noob trap in PF
my mans making a full uptime strat once everyone is 727+ *clap clap clap*
I think people that want uptime strats will be happy to have such no matter the ilvl!
Parse strats will always be warranted. Dont be salty
@@Seanana_ not salty... just pointless... everyone who needs an uptime strategy for parsing already has one. My man is waaaaay too late
@@dave7526 So people should stop innovating?
@@Seanana_ exactly... now your getting it
I wish PF would do this ....
Why? It's a garbage strat.
Mk is a consistent bad but not terrible. It's predictability is why it's the better strat.
This strat and others get blessed patterns that make them great but when they don't (90% of the time) it's guaranteed to send someone into the wall.
Bub calling the strat bad because he's bad and unable to just...pay attention to the mech
"i dont wanna learn new strats, i wanna follow week one strats cause im a stick in the mud waaaaah. Also im mostly certain this guy has better parses than you.
He called it bad because Mario Kart is historically bad. It was used in MANY raids and trials in the past when people were not smart enough to figure out the mechanic right away. Eventually someone like Kobe would come along and explain the mechanic to impatient people and get them to learn the right way of doing things.
There is a reason we gave up using Mario Kart for dropping the red and green meteors .... Mario Kart is ALWAYS bad and the go to when people are not smart enough to figure out the mechanic. Just how it has always been!
I mean is that not exactly the reason why MK exists and people use it? Because people who insist on MK are unable to use their eyes or think for themselves?
I was in a pf wiating for people to join and they wanted to do Mario cart, i was trying to explain to them how it was a bad strat and there are other, better eays to handle it and theybkicked me from the party. People are way too attached to week one strats.
I was also once kicked out of a group when it was not reclear yet. After several tries (we didnt wipe there nor was the issue this mech at all) I was asked if I would run with the group and I said no, its shit. MK strat is dogshit and it never made this mech easier.
Well, that is because people rather be ignorant and stupid sometimes.
Nah as much as I hate MK, you don't walk into someone else's house and whine about how the furniture is arranged.
*You're* the one joining the party. You do what the party wants or what the party listing said. If you don't like it, you shouldn't of joined. Leave and make your own party with the strats you want, otherwise you don't get to complain.
No one's forcing you to join parties you dislike, so you don't get to join *other people's* parties and demand they do it your way. Just grow a pair and make your own listing instead of whining at people for using strats *you* chose to join into. You earned the kick.