Good review, Ernie. The Toaks took too much time using the Evernew cross stand because the pot was only 1/2" above the jets. The Toaks stand puts the pot close to 1" above the jets. The Lixada stand, however, is taller than the Evernew, and holds the pot 1" above the jets. Thus the similar boil time. To eliminate that variable, all burners should be tested using the same stand. Any alcohol stove will burn cooler (take longer to boil) with less headroom. It will take longer to boil, but use less fuel, thus the increased burn-out time.
First, thank you for all the alcohol stove reviews. Very helpful to have it all in one place. With the Toaks siphon, the EverNew cross stand will work "better" if turned upside down. The notches catch the edge of the stove so it won't slide around and don't make it significantly less stable. It increases the distance between pot and stove to roughly 1 inch.
Great comparison. People have made very cheap simmer caps for the lixada, sometimes out of a soup can lid. Id prefer the option to boil faster, not to mention the cost, lixada all the way!
Interesting background info, for many stoves it's kind of hard to trace back the origins. I wouldn't call the Toaks an original. The design came originally out of Japan and was first called the Capilliar hoop stove. An early commercial version was implemented in aluminium. It was and I think still is available as the "Riverside Rambler".
Thank you for the video it helped me to decide. After consideration I purchased Lixada, in fact my main stove is Vargo Hexagon titanium (wood stove for morning and evening cooking in the camp) and I use Lixada as a back up if I want to cook something during the hike or if the wood is too wet. Vargo hexagon is a good stand for Lixada and works also as a wind cover.
How come you didn't test the enclosed stand with the Lixada? Going off your results it looks like a clear win for the Lixada. Especially as its so much lighter given you don't need the stand and tent pegs
Great video! I think if you let the one ounce burn all the way out with the TI Stand you'd probably see it get closer to 11 mins for a total burn time. I think the pot being closer to the burner with the Evernew Stand enabled the fuel to burn slower, increasing your boil time and concurrently your overall burn time. Great to see a knock off stove that has more fuel capacity for larger amounts of water to come to a boil. The Toaks burner is quite small.
Your great videos inspired me to do some testing with my Lixada. With a different set-up, the burner can perform substantially 'better' (depends on the desires of course). Starting condition: -500ml water (2.1 US cups) at 21°C (69.8°F) at about sea level and lid on top (plus thermocouple inside) -30g Ethanol (1.05 oz) in the burner (same temperature) (I think you use heet -> methanol? We don't have that here easily available. Ethanol has a ~34% higher caloric value though, might explain a part of the difference!) -2 liter Primus Eta pot with heat exchanger - it has a 15cm wide base (5.9 inch) which I think is well suited for the large flames of the Lixada. -5cm (1.97 inch) distance from the top of the burner to the lower edge of the heat exchanger, as that seems to be the sweetspot for my setup result: -Water at rolling boil @ 100°C (212°F), reached in 3 min 20s -17g fuel left, 13g (0.45oz) of fuel consumed (assumed 7min 40s total burn time per oz from that) Assuming linear fuel burn (the difference in water mass just about compensates the different starting temperatures) your Lixada should have consumed about 22g. Using the caloric values of the fuels, your burner used 121Wh, mine 96Wh. So about 20% less energy used, ignoring measuring errors. That should be the pot? Calculated from that, your burner put out 1077W, mine 1730W. About 60% more output. Very interesting. Edit: tested other pots now. Normal supermarket cheap steel pot, 6 inch wide: 4 minutes 750ml Lixada cup, 3.7 inch diameter : 4min 40s So, that stove really profits from a larger pot diameter. I think I'll go with a more flat and wide pot now. Those are much better for actual cooking, anyway. ;-)
According to some others that Toaks may be more efficient with more space above it to the pot. Try flipping over that Evernew stand and see if your results improve.
I can't help but wonder how the lixada would have done using the Toaks Ti stand instead of its crosspiece. Oh well. Just felt a bit incomplete without that data. But you used the stands that were made for each stove. I just wonder if it would have been better or worse than the cross stand.
Nothing beats the versatility of a Trangia! You show a simmer on either of these! A stove has to be able cook slow as well as fast! What other stove can do what a Trangia can do that’s different and not just a knock off?
pretty sure all you can use in these things is the ethanol/methanol...I tried rubbing alcohol my first shot and learned pretty quickly how inferior that is!
At 10:05 " if you combine the Toaks with the Evernew cross stand it works just as well as the Lixada ". But you had just proved that it did not. Please edit out your contridiction. My Toaks ti Stand does not have have the pot support rod holes (& no support rods). I appreciate your experimentation a lot but a head to head comparison is no time to combine different manufacturer's parts, unless it set the pot at the (burner makers) recomended height. Take care Thanks for your efforts. My Lixada should arrive next week.
tetkoba's had it all figured out correctly already then...different size identical type stoves behave as expected. Thanks for the comparison! Any difference you can spot in jet hole diameter perhaps too? That should influence the efficiency also. Besides...lixada without the cross stand? How does that behave?
Most of the "stove" UA-camrs focus on boil times. For me it's more about being able to actually cook using one of these burners. In my experience so far, 1/2 inch burner to bottom of pot/pan is a good distance for cooking. Equal to about medium heat on my stove. And the fuel lasts forever. My Toaks siphon stove with the evernew titanium cross stand burns for about 19 minutes on an ounce to an ounce and half. Same principal with the Trangia.
Nice comparison review Dr. Ernie, I've had poor results using the Evernew Cross Stand with my Toaks, but great results using the Toaks Ti Stand. At a burn time of 15 minutes you could boil twice as much water with the Toaks as you could with the Lixada with the same amount of alcohol. That translates to savings in dollars and weight over the long term. I think I will stick with my Toaks. Thanks for the review.
I thought he was going to do that. Seems unfair to only test one of them with the enclosed stand and not the other. Also, saying the toaks is lighter isn't true if you have to take that stand and tent pegs with it, when the Lixada doesn't need them
The 15 minutes are kind of misleading. He got them with the cross stand, which also had a much longer boil time, because the Pot was to close to the stove. With the Toaks stand the boil time was faster, but also the fuel time should have been shorter. Unfortunately, he didn't include the second fuel time measurement in the video. He does though, in the video for the Toaks Siphon alone. 11.22 fuel time. So it is more like 9 vs 11.5min fuel time instead of 9 vs 15
It was mainly the distance between pot and stove. The Evernew stand made the gap too narrow between Toaks and pot. He's indoors so the shroud for the toaks will make only a small difference.
Always pays to hit that magic 1.25" minimum height above burner. Cross-stands w/o wind, cylinders with? Caldera cone-shape always wins. Capillary stove always wins too. Toaks and Lixada appear to be capillary-esque, but are burners, not stoves.
wish someone had of explained to me the difference between rubbing alcohol and denatured...stuck the wrong one in my brand new EverNew, and got soot all over my pan large...so then next day I go out and buy the right type of fuel of coarse, and all is well...yet now I have 4 extra bottles of isopropyl in addition to the one I opened...
Don’t be lazy. The soot comes right off in 30 seconds with a light scrub the PINK STUFF. Also depending on the quality of the stainless steel you use. My Lixada 750ML does not collect soot at all, Yet my firemaple kettle does.
Did you allow the Toaks to cool right down before its second trial? Otherwise you're shaving-off that time so that the fuel gasifies faster. Also, giving the Lixada a second test similar to the Toaks would've been an interesting comparison, otherwise this is comparing apples and oranges.
This to me looks like comparing apples to oranges ! If you have to use 2 different stands then they are different. I understand that the toaks is a siphon the same as lixada but the stands were different. The performance will be different with the different stands . Great video though ! Take care and stay safe
Have anyone noticed that heat in the yellow bottle gives off lots of soot. It never did that in the past but does now. I’m pretty sure it’s changed. Buy a new bottle try it out an let me know what happens.
Please stop reviewing stoves that trigger my "ooh, shiny; must. buy. now." reflex. Seeing the performance with the ti-stand, I wonder if there's a chimney like updraft being created with the narrow gap between the pot and stand, and the air holes at the bottom, below the burner that improves performance.
I agree with some of the other comments. You want to aim for about 1" between the burner and the pot. The Evernew cross stand is just too short compared with the one used with the Lixada.
I find that the Toaks Siphon boils faster at about one and one half inches (1.5 inches). Steve at Firebox Stoves did some tests using this stove and also got better boil times with the larger head space. I think it has to do with the inward jets, but not quite sure.
Would love to see a review/comparison of Tetkoba's Capillary Hoop Stove Universal (CHU). ua-cam.com/video/fbHHQrh9m58/v-deo.html And that video was from 8 years ago, so who's copying whom? The CHU is my go-to year-round alcohol stove, made out of 3 Red Bull cans. Comes in at 7 grams!
You did not really compare anything. EverNew cross stand is designed for EverNew burner and its outer holes. It still favors bigger pots. TiStand, what happends if you put a pot larger than fit inside it in pegs lol. What you should have compared if it was fit to Toaks burner also is that Lixada stand. And that stand itself is not such a good idea for fire hazards or spill boiled water burns. Please more scientific tests instead just try add popularity.
There's more to review than simply burn time. Also consider the set-up. In real world camping situations (ie wind) the Toaks stove with wind screen is going to perform better. Nothing sucks more than watching your precious fuel get blown sideways away from the food you're trying to cook.
There's no way the toaks burner and that stand weighs less than the lixada and its stand. Plus that toaks stand encapsulates the burner and pot trapping in the heat. Not really a fair comparison. Using a wrap around windshield would have made a better baseline for comparison. Oh and both burners are copies btw
Good review, Ernie.
The Toaks took too much time using the Evernew cross stand because the pot was only 1/2" above the jets. The Toaks stand puts the pot close to 1" above the jets.
The Lixada stand, however, is taller than the Evernew, and holds the pot 1" above the jets. Thus the similar boil time.
To eliminate that variable, all burners should be tested using the same stand.
Any alcohol stove will burn cooler (take longer to boil) with less headroom. It will take longer to boil, but use less fuel, thus the increased burn-out time.
Hiram Cook had similar bad results with the cross stand. Creating a 1” head space using a stainless mesh stand cut the boil time in half.
@@lapicker1010
Then he flipped it, which gave him 1" headroom, and boil times back to normal.
Amen.
the evernew cross stand works with the toaks stove, if you flip the stand upside down, it holds the pot right near the 1" height.
I wonder how the Lixada would do with the Toaks stand.
First, thank you for all the alcohol stove reviews. Very helpful to have it all in one place. With the Toaks siphon, the EverNew cross stand will work "better" if turned upside down. The notches catch the edge of the stove so it won't slide around and don't make it significantly less stable. It increases the distance between pot and stove to roughly 1 inch.
I recommend flipping the Evernew stand upside down (taller) for faster boil.
Ernie keeping it real. That’s why I’m here. And I love stove videos.
It’s what I was expecting to compare. Much much helpful to decide shopping, Ernie. Thank you very much~
I'd have been interested in seeing the Lixada with the TI Stand, too
Great comparison. People have made very cheap simmer caps for the lixada, sometimes out of a soup can lid. Id prefer the option to boil faster, not to mention the cost, lixada all the way!
Interesting background info, for many stoves it's kind of hard to trace back the origins. I wouldn't call the Toaks an original. The design came originally out of Japan and was first called the Capilliar hoop stove. An early commercial version was implemented in aluminium. It was and I think still is available as the "Riverside Rambler".
Yes RSR (RiverSideRambler) stove, CNC made in Japan and expensive ~$78.
Thank you for the video it helped me to decide. After consideration I purchased Lixada, in fact my main stove is Vargo Hexagon titanium (wood stove for morning and evening cooking in the camp) and I use Lixada as a back up if I want to cook something during the hike or if the wood is too wet. Vargo hexagon is a good stand for Lixada and works also as a wind cover.
How come you didn't test the enclosed stand with the Lixada? Going off your results it looks like a clear win for the Lixada. Especially as its so much lighter given you don't need the stand and tent pegs
that was my first thought as well. Really expected that test as well.
Nothing to block the wind (Lixada). Last time I checked it gets windy outdoors. Stoves without wind protection are worthless.
I’ve NEVER had my TOAKS Siphon Stove take that long to boil - I’m betting the stand is the culprit.
Great video! I think if you let the one ounce burn all the way out with the TI Stand you'd probably see it get closer to 11 mins for a total burn time. I think the pot being closer to the burner with the Evernew Stand enabled the fuel to burn slower, increasing your boil time and concurrently your overall burn time. Great to see a knock off stove that has more fuel capacity for larger amounts of water to come to a boil. The Toaks burner is quite small.
I’m exiting to know boiling test Lixada stove with Toaks Ti stand.
Great video and very informative. Was waiting on this one for sure
Your great videos inspired me to do some testing with my Lixada.
With a different set-up, the burner can perform substantially 'better' (depends on the desires of course).
Starting condition:
-500ml water (2.1 US cups) at 21°C (69.8°F) at about sea level and lid on top (plus thermocouple inside)
-30g Ethanol (1.05 oz) in the burner (same temperature)
(I think you use heet -> methanol? We don't have that here easily available. Ethanol has a ~34% higher caloric value though, might explain a part of the difference!)
-2 liter Primus Eta pot with heat exchanger - it has a 15cm wide base (5.9 inch) which I think is well suited for the large flames of the Lixada.
-5cm (1.97 inch) distance from the top of the burner to the lower edge of the heat exchanger, as that seems to be the sweetspot for my setup
result:
-Water at rolling boil @ 100°C (212°F), reached in 3 min 20s
-17g fuel left, 13g (0.45oz) of fuel consumed
(assumed 7min 40s total burn time per oz from that)
Assuming linear fuel burn (the difference in water mass just about compensates the different starting temperatures) your Lixada should have consumed about 22g.
Using the caloric values of the fuels, your burner used 121Wh, mine 96Wh. So about 20% less energy used, ignoring measuring errors. That should be the pot?
Calculated from that, your burner put out 1077W, mine 1730W. About 60% more output.
Very interesting.
Edit: tested other pots now.
Normal supermarket cheap steel pot, 6 inch wide: 4 minutes
750ml Lixada cup, 3.7 inch diameter : 4min 40s
So, that stove really profits from a larger pot diameter. I think I'll go with a more flat and wide pot now. Those are much better for actual cooking, anyway. ;-)
Thanks for getting this one out so quickly Ernie. Toaks it is!
According to some others that Toaks may be more efficient with more space above it to the pot. Try flipping over that Evernew stand and see if your results improve.
Do these both fit in the firebox nano wood stove (to use as a stand/wind deflector/pot stand)?
Given that the Evernew cross stand results in a longer burn time at a lower temperature, does it offer the opportunity to use the Toaks for baking?
I can't help but wonder how the lixada would have done using the Toaks Ti stand instead of its crosspiece. Oh well. Just felt a bit incomplete without that data. But you used the stands that were made for each stove. I just wonder if it would have been better or worse than the cross stand.
Спасибо за обзор, как раз присматриваю себе спиртовку lixada!!)) 👍👍👍до этого пользовался спиртовкой классической формы!!))
Thanks for this and other comparison videos.
I’ve gotten some ‘HEAT’ for covering these knock off stoves. I see what you did there! 😂
You'd have to use the lixada with the oaks ti stand to get a good comparison.
That stand/windshield makes a big difference. I have seen conical windshields cut boil time by at least 25%.
Nothing beats the versatility of a Trangia! You show a simmer on either of these! A stove has to be able cook slow as well as fast! What other stove can do what a Trangia can do that’s different and not just a knock off?
I've viewed most of your stove videos but don't recall ever seeing a duel fuel stove, do you have any of those
pretty sure all you can use in these things is the ethanol/methanol...I tried rubbing alcohol my first shot and learned pretty quickly how inferior that is!
At 10:05 " if you combine the Toaks with the Evernew cross stand it works just as well as the Lixada ". But you had just proved that it did not.
Please edit out your contridiction.
My Toaks ti Stand does not have have the pot support rod holes (& no support rods).
I appreciate your experimentation a lot but a head to head comparison is no time to combine different manufacturer's parts, unless it set the pot at the (burner makers) recomended height.
Take care
Thanks for your efforts.
My Lixada should arrive next week.
tetkoba's had it all figured out correctly already then...different size identical type stoves behave as expected.
Thanks for the comparison!
Any difference you can spot in jet hole diameter perhaps too? That should influence the efficiency also.
Besides...lixada without the cross stand? How does that behave?
IMO every alcohol stove comparison should include the fancy feast as a baseline.
Wonderfully thorough
Hi..
One question...
How works the last lixada stove with windscreen? Less 6 minutes? Thanks for your tribute..!
Best regards from Spain..!
since you did your initial review of the Lixada stove Ali Express appear to have run out of the pot supports, coincidence?
Does anyone know if the toaks would perform well in a firebox nano?
We need that info
Turn the evernew stand upside down on the toaks for a super fast boil
I really like the Toaks stove and stand, but now I may try the Lixada. Hey, why not have both? Thanks for sharing! :-)
Most of the "stove" UA-camrs focus on boil times. For me it's more about being able to actually cook using one of these burners. In my experience so far, 1/2 inch burner to bottom of pot/pan is a good distance for cooking. Equal to about medium heat on my stove. And the fuel lasts forever. My Toaks siphon stove with the evernew titanium cross stand burns for about 19 minutes on an ounce to an ounce and half. Same principal with the Trangia.
I am not going to make a video....but I am getting a Toaks. Seems perfect for the USGI Canteen Cup/stove system I am building for my Motorcycle kit.
I like the original fancy feast. Great price works flawlessly.
Nice comparison review Dr. Ernie, I've had poor results using the Evernew Cross Stand with my Toaks, but great results using the Toaks Ti Stand. At a burn time of 15 minutes you could boil twice as much water with the Toaks as you could with the Lixada with the same amount of alcohol. That translates to savings in dollars and weight over the long term. I think I will stick with my Toaks. Thanks for the review.
What's a good alcohol stove for boiling 1.5-2 Liters of water?
probably the EverNew, when filled it should do that in one shot pretty much faster than the rest...Yet it's expensive...durable though :)
Now what happens if you put the Lixada stove in the Toaks stand? Will it fit? Your the stove guy Ernie. Thanks
Having tested it myself, I can confirm the lixada fits well under there and results in a faster boil time too.
@@outdoordannyd thanks for sharing the information.
I thought he was going to do that. Seems unfair to only test one of them with the enclosed stand and not the other. Also, saying the toaks is lighter isn't true if you have to take that stand and tent pegs with it, when the Lixada doesn't need them
It's a bigger stove, burning fuel faster, a little more heat. If it's getting enough air, the Lix will be a little bit faster.
If toaks wasnt so expensive it would be good. You have to respect the 15 min fuel times but having to get the extra equipment for it...not a fan
The 15 minutes are kind of misleading. He got them with the cross stand, which also had a much longer boil time, because the Pot was to close to the stove.
With the Toaks stand the boil time was faster, but also the fuel time should have been shorter. Unfortunately, he didn't include the second fuel time measurement in the video. He does though, in the video for the Toaks Siphon alone. 11.22 fuel time.
So it is more like 9 vs 11.5min fuel time instead of 9 vs 15
I wonder how the Toaks would've preformed with the Lixada stand?
Does the toaks nest inside the lixada ???
The toaks does in fact fit inside the lixada very well
Good job Ernie
The toaks stand acts as a windscreen, focusing the heat to the bottom of the pot. The Lixada with a similr wind screen would be an interesting test
It was mainly the distance between pot and stove. The Evernew stand made the gap too narrow between Toaks and pot. He's indoors so the shroud for the toaks will make only a small difference.
have you used the toaks siphon in the firebox nano?
Always pays to hit that magic 1.25" minimum height above burner. Cross-stands w/o wind, cylinders with? Caldera cone-shape always wins. Capillary stove always wins too. Toaks and Lixada appear to be capillary-esque, but are burners, not stoves.
toaks ----- lixada -----------------💲💲💲💲💲💸💸💸 thanks Doc for demonstrating
Does the toaks fit inside the lixada?
Yes it does
wish someone had of explained to me the difference between rubbing alcohol and denatured...stuck the wrong one in my brand new EverNew, and got soot all over my pan large...so then next day I go out and buy the right type of fuel of coarse, and all is well...yet now I have 4 extra bottles of isopropyl in addition to the one I opened...
Cover the bottom of your pot with foil and use up the isopropyl alcohol.
Don’t be lazy. The soot comes right off in 30 seconds with a light scrub the PINK STUFF.
Also depending on the quality of the stainless steel you use.
My Lixada 750ML does not collect soot at all, Yet my firemaple kettle does.
What kind of alcohol are you supposed to use with these?
Did you allow the Toaks to cool right down before its second trial? Otherwise you're shaving-off that time so that the fuel gasifies faster. Also, giving the Lixada a second test similar to the Toaks would've been an interesting comparison, otherwise this is comparing apples and oranges.
This to me looks like comparing apples to oranges ! If you have to use 2 different stands then they are different. I understand that the toaks is a siphon the same as lixada but the stands were different. The performance will be different with the different stands . Great video though ! Take care and stay safe
What lighter are you using?
Referenz:
Hiram Cook
Optimum: ca. 1 Inch
Have anyone noticed that heat in the yellow bottle gives off lots of soot. It never did that in the past but does now. I’m pretty sure it’s changed. Buy a new bottle try it out an let me know what happens.
Same manufacturer
Please stop reviewing stoves that trigger my "ooh, shiny; must. buy. now." reflex.
Seeing the performance with the ti-stand, I wonder if there's a chimney like updraft being created with the narrow gap between the pot and stand, and the air holes at the bottom, below the burner that improves performance.
Burn out time of Siphon Toaks with Toaks stand shouldn’t be 15 minutes because different equipment.
I agree with some of the other comments. You want to aim for about 1" between the burner and the pot. The Evernew cross stand is just too short compared with the one used with the Lixada.
I find that the Toaks Siphon boils faster at about one and one half inches (1.5 inches). Steve at Firebox Stoves did some tests using this stove and also got better boil times with the larger head space. I think it has to do with the inward jets, but not quite sure.
@@starlingblack814 Interesting. I'll check that out. When Hiram tested the stove on his UA-cam channel, he tried 1.5" and 1", and the smaller gap won.
Lixada is "copycat" of Toaks, that in turn is "copycat" of Freeflight FREVO R. ;)
🌲🦅🌲 thank you for posting
just me or wasn't it obvious why using a cross stand on toaks stove won't perform well? reply if you didn't get why.
Why didn’t you test evenly the Lixada with the Toaks ti Stand, the result may be even better than the original one. Please make it fair!
I think the only fair way to compare these is if you used the same stand and pot. You didn't do that.
Would love to see a review/comparison of Tetkoba's Capillary Hoop Stove Universal (CHU).
ua-cam.com/video/fbHHQrh9m58/v-deo.html
And that video was from 8 years ago, so who's copying whom?
The CHU is my go-to year-round alcohol stove, made out of 3 Red Bull cans. Comes in at 7 grams!
Good pull. I thought these looked familiar. Tetkoba has some fantastic builds.
i love your reviews, BUT apples for apples, oranges for oranges.. not quiet the right comparison...
They are not knockoffs they need to find out who is the OEM manufacturing .
You did not really compare anything. EverNew cross stand is designed for EverNew burner and its outer holes. It still favors bigger pots. TiStand, what happends if you put a pot larger than fit inside it in pegs lol. What you should have compared if it was fit to Toaks burner also is that Lixada stand. And that stand itself is not such a good idea for fire hazards or spill boiled water burns.
Please more scientific tests instead just try add popularity.
There's more to review than simply burn time. Also consider the set-up. In real world camping situations (ie wind) the Toaks stove with wind screen is going to perform better. Nothing sucks more than watching your precious fuel get blown sideways away from the food you're trying to cook.
There's no way the toaks burner and that stand weighs less than the lixada and its stand. Plus that toaks stand encapsulates the burner and pot trapping in the heat. Not really a fair comparison. Using a wrap around windshield would have made a better baseline for comparison. Oh and both burners are copies btw
Hahah, "catching heat" for your stove vids...
My Toaks was made in China.
None of its burner trangia ,esbit,
toaks, lixada. etc etc etc...
can compare to the original fancy feest...
and it is made in usa
Some great reviews but please, not everything is a question, that upward inflection at the end of every sentence is so annoying.
Both made in china! I just bought the lixada for $18 with the stand.
Nah, you also changed the pot on the second go so you can't compare the two!
Lol most things are made in china. Other name brand products are made from the same manufacturer
So, it's China vs. China, right? LOL
None of them is original I follow some japaneses on YT that build alcohol stoves with all sort of cans. Some videos date from the beginning of YT
This is a failed comparison.
Will the toaks stove fit inside the lixada stove?