What Went Wrong With These Are The Voyages?
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- Опубліковано 17 лип 2019
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My thoughts on the finale of Star Trek: Enterprise, These Are The Voyages
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Another major problem is that Troi (I think, or Riker) says something like "It's a shame that he [Trip] has no idea he's about to die..." which completely spoils the surprise of his death several minutes later.
I'm guessing it was done to prepare the audience. And while Trip didn't get a funeral in the episode, he was eulogized in the scenes leading up to his death - which I think was intentional to allow the writers to avoid having a funeral.
I have a t-shirt that says "The Holodeck was broken. Trip lives!" Just because Riker supposedly saw Trip die doesn't mean he did.
Where can I get such a T-shirt?
True
I think Riker's holosimulation took a lot of... creative liberties.
Personally for the finale episode of Enterprise.... well If the original episode would have been treated like Riker appearing but, the viewer never would have understood till the end that it was a simulation it could work out, heck they even could tell that Enterprise cook was in fact Riker great-Grandfather or something, but like they did portraited it as a "tour of Enterprise" not so much....thus I would have prefer if it was actually Robert Picardo, The Doctor instead of Riker, at least you get a double joke of a scene about the Doctor being an hologram himself so you get the feeling what is real?...
You know the usual moral dilemma with the Doctor, thus admittely it is mostly because once I read one fandom art, which it play ther ENT ending with the Doctor, however at the end of the program, the Doctor while getting out of the holo-chamber, instead to find himself on his new work office on Julius Station, he find himself on a Julius Station that has been completely assimilated by the Borg, while he witness outside a massive battle between the Federation and the Borg with Voyager getting destroyed.
However suddenly the scene disappear and turning around the Doctor seen Trip Tucker behind him!!
It turn out that the scene that the Doctor witness was in fact an historical rapresentation of the Borg Invasion of 2381(a massive Borg Invasion in the Star Trek novels, that reshape the political power of the Alpha and Beta quadrant) that is about to happen in 11 months, Trip turn out did die in the 22nd Century, but Daniels recover soon after his body to resurrect him in the 31st Century to work as temporal agent and he has used the Doctor holo matrix to send him all the datas regarding the invasion as means to allow the Federation to preventive strike at the Borg Invasion force in its premise, therefore denying it from ever happeing in the first place.
However the Doctor, despite been shocked, point out that Trip action will result in a temporal change therefore in violation of Temporal Prime Directive(VOY did in part cover this issue), but Trip reveal that he no longer work for Daniels, when he realized that in fact Daniels did not work to preserve the timeline, but to altered it in order to ensure a stronger Federation since Daniels work in fact for the 31st century version of the Section 31, which is convinced that the Borg Invasion of 2381 is needed to happen since the Federation will emerge stronger after the event, more militarized and organized before it and therefore better prepared to any potential future menace....
For the same reason Trip want to prevent it to happen since when he find out the truth about Section 31 Trip defected taking refuge in the 28th century where he is waging what he call a "temporal Guerrilia War" against Section 31, who he reveal allow the Xindi attack to happen in the first place since they manage to predict that doing so would have allow to destroy the Sphere-Builder Threat in the 22nd Century, instead of the 26th Century allowing the Federation to expand in the Delphic Expanse unopposed, as such Trip blame them for the death of his sister, as well his own "first death" which turn out Daniels was actually behind it, having reveal the position of the Enterprise at the abuptors of Shran's daughter(since it turn out that to travel in time has its toll on the molecular structure of any traveler, therefore using proxy is the best way to ensure fewer repercussion)....
Concluding with the Doctor that in end "You died as the Hero or eventually you become the villain.....and I had all the time of the universe to become it", Trip disappear revealing that it was only present as an image, then the scene change back to the 28th century where an aged Trip walk away from a padwalk identical to the one used by "Future Guy"...revealing that in fact Trip and Future Guy were the same person all along
Yes! That's my out as well!
I was really upset when they killed off Trip. He was my favourite character. I was devastated. Worst ending ever.
I do love the 'space, the final frontier...' at the end with the 3 captains, though I wish they had gone full into it and added sisko and janeway, i understand why they didn't from a lore standpoint
but from a 'we want to give something to all the fans', it seems like it should have been there
Same here mate. Everytime I try to rewatch the series, which was my st tos as a child and beloved, my mind whispers, 'Remember how it ended, how they killed Trip?'
@@Mdhneo007apparently his death wasn't true. At least in the books. His death was faked so he could work in section 31 and tell the tales of the enterprise and the battles of the romulan war. I've only heard this though. I'm only 20 so I haven't gotten to grow up with true trek but I watched it as a kid either way. Enterprise and voyager were my absoulte favorite, and knowing I'm almost as old as enterprise makes it a little more special. Archer is the best captain for me, and trip was one hell of a character.
It’s true. His death was faked so he could infiltrate the romulans.
why does everything have to end positively? It's normal for some important people to die - there is risk
I preferred the crossover event of DS9 and TOS - “Trials and Tribble-ations”
No comparison. That's one of Trek's greatest ever episodes!
I FUCKING LOVED IT
That's definitely my favorite Star Trek episode ever (except maybe one or 2 TNG episodes)
The best line of all of trek.... Worf "It is a long story, and we do not discuss it with outsiders" When the tos Klingons were noticed in the galley. I died when he said that. 😂
“Trials and Tribble-ations” was hilarious. It’s one of my favorite DS9 episodes.
If Enterprise got seven seasons, holy shit. I'll never not get mad over that. We were ROBBED
It’s great to hear such gentlemen like Rick and Brannon admiting about their full responsibility of the terrible end of “Enterprise” it seem a long time ago when people accept their own failures, those times when Directors and producers never blamed to fans
I was so pissed when they killed trip, then i was even more pissed when i found out season 5 was going to be the Romulan war or at least building up to it even more and we'd never see it.
Same. From some of the potential season five episodes that have been revealed, it's a crying shame Enterprise was canceled after its fourth season.
@@clintonwilcox4690 which storylines have been revealed?
Especially with that fantastic NX-01 Refit design the Enterprise was going to get. The addition of the secondary hull, a new paint job, and upgraded tech such as shields would have shown another step in taking the aesthetics of Enterprise and showing a gradual development towards what we would see on TOS.
I read they were also going to introduce the Kzinti.
@@felixvecchiarelli6458 From what I´ve read, Trip wasn´t dead - the whole incident of the "these are the voyages" episode were staged by Archer, Phlox and Shran to 'kill off' Trip, so he could join Section 31 to infiltrate Romulus, since they apparently prepared for a war in response to the foundation of the Federation. The whole fifth season would have been about the Earth-Romulan war, respectively the occurents leading to it. I´d recommend to read the "Rise of the Federation" novels, which continue this plotline even further. Imho, they´re pretty good.
I will give Berman & Braga credit for shouldering the blame for the abysmal “These Are The Voyages”, and not blaming the fans for refusing to embrace their “creative vision” for the ENT series finale. Also, you’d have to mess up a script *really bad* for one of the nicest people in TV (Scott Bakula) to get pissed off with you about a particular episode of the show where he’s the lead actor.
not the first time Bakula has been fucked in a sci-fi series finale.
Should have been post nemesis with Riker feeling nervous about his first command the titan and looks to the Archer for inspiration.
I've heard a theory that some people wonder if the entire series was just a bunch of holographic reenactments by Riker while serving on the Enterprise-D - supposedly. there were times when'd he faced a serious decision making situation, and he'd wonder how the crew of the NX-01 would've handled it. He'd recreate one of their missions on the holodeck and insert himself in as a minor member of the crew, mostly various lower-raking crew members, but, interestingly enough, largely putting himself in as the character of Chef (which is supposed to be why this is the only episode where we actually see Chef's face; according to the theory, Chef was actually Riker the entire time) to see how things would play out, and then make his decisions based on what he saw.
Indeed, it felt as if it should have been. Instead we get to see Riker in his Number dumbell days...
(Crappy movie by the way).
How could they not have a full speech????
Enterprise is my favoite series, even named my dog Acher because of it. I watched a little of it while growing up but I finally sat down after 10 years and became completely enamoured with the show after three episodes. At first it was a silly, intoxicated throw back and seemed nostalgic, but after watching "Rouge Planet" i was in love. That episode was just so innocently witty at the end, a single tear formed in my eye, "Is this was television is really like?" I wondered.
The whole concept of the first warp 5 ship and breaking free of Vulcan "over sight", and Captain Archer having to really carve out principles for what humanity was going to offer their quadrant spoke to my inner American.
Great video, Dave.
I admire the writers for admitting they f'd up on the last episode, shame the Game of Thrones writers couldn't admit the same.
Maybe in a few years
They have now.
When the writers for Star Trek: Enterprise have more class and humility than the GOT writers, there's a problem
Trip: The First Red Shirt.
Seriously the death was so random it might as well been that kind of death
JediGhostBear despite the fact that Red Shirt characters weren't primary characters in any specific episode of the Star Trek series especially in the TOS era
@@karlsmith2570 "Red Shirts" might have been mostly security killed off frequently in episodes but remember Engineering personnel also wore red including Montgomery Scott - Chief Engineer - not really a minor character.
AndyM9372 there was the occasional Red Shirt that was in the engineering department, but for the most part it was security officers
Not to mention the fact that how could you feel anything at all after they had killed Trip off two or three times in the series already before the last episode? I mean, why didn’t they just name his character Kenny?
A truly awful ending to a quality series. As you said, Enterprise was very much on the improve when it was cancelled.
And it still has many more viewers than STD....
@@dampnickers It speaks to the longevity of classic Trek. Granted, Enterprise certainly had its flaws, but it's a masterpiece when compared to the likes of STD.
It was a tacked on finale because of cancellation.
@@neildennis7294 That's why I regard Demons/Terra Prime as the true final episode of the series.
Liam Calvert what really upseting is who or they rate these show if that was the case every television should have a rating box built in its 2019 and still have a out dated ratings system
Actually, the episode immediately prior to this would have been the perfect finale! The speech at the end of Terra Prime setup the birth of the federation and would have been a great sendoff!
Making it a holodeck episode ruined it, and not hearing Archers speech was lazy.
What the hell were they thinking??
I think SFdebris nailed it when he said that what it should have been should have been Riker watching some of the adventures of the Enterprise crew not participating in them.
For a final twist though at the end though i would have had Riker talk to much older Archer on the holodeck about the difficulties he went through vs those Riker is dealing with.
After a having talked Riker exits the holodeck ordering the computer to shut down the program, not even checking if the computer does what he says.
We see the door close and Archer is still standing there when a Xindi emerge from behind archer, and asks if he found the answers he was looking for to which Archer nods.
We find out that just as Riker was struggling with his task of maybe introducing the 1000 member to the federation, so to did Archer struggle with starting the federation.
Seeing what it will become, Archer is now confident that he is making the right choice by forming the federation.
We end on him and Riker each giving the same speech and ending with the familiar intro speech of Space the final frontier.
To me this would have been a much more satisfying ending, then what we got.
What a twist!
I like it, just for how ballsy that would be.
Either that or Daniels took him there. Many better ways to do that episode than what they did.
How about no Riker! The whole concept was lame and retarded.
Should have focused on Jeffrey Combs and Archer's speech. Then everyone celebrating on earth.Writers and producers always manage to screw up the finale. It wasn't fair either.
Interesting storyline there
"Terra Prime" was the series finally of Enterprise. "Theses are the Voyages" was the last episode of the Next Generation.
Nope. That’s still “All Good Things”.
It is the seventh season episode "the pegasus"
No. Just no.
Agreed. This would have made more sense in terms of Will debating taking command of USSTitan. DUMBASS move placing it in the Pegasus episode, it totally undermines the decision to reveal the device in the episode, like, Will needed a hologram to talk him into making the decision.
Boooo
Let's just pretend this was fan fiction
You're right, linking two generations together should have been a mid-season episode. And the storyline for Riker was inconsistant with what happened during "The Pegasus". I always thought that it probably would have made better sense to have Seven and Icheb be the observers; post-End Game...something like Icheb now fully enrolled at Starfleet Academy the NX-01 would be a lesson for him--but again as a mid-season episode.
I've heard a theory that some people wonder if the entire series was just a bunch of holographic reenactments by Riker while serving on the Enterprise-D - supposedly. there were times when'd he faced a serious decision making situation, and he'd wonder how the crew of the NX-01 would've handled it. He'd recreate one of their missions on the holodeck and insert himself in as a minor member of the crew, mostly various lower-raking crew members, but, interestingly enough, largely putting himself in as the character of Chef (which is supposed to be why this is the only episode where we actually see Chef's face; according to the theory, Chef was actually Riker the entire time) to see how things would play out, and then make his decisions based on what he saw.
The Starship designs where just getting good, I really liked what they would doing with the Enterprise E style.
I found it quite sad when tucker sacrificed himself.
And when he was dealing with the loss of his sister to the xindi.
A good actor.
I believe tucker is alive in my mind. because it happened in the holodeck. maybe there is something untold in history. something happened to them and they needed to pretend he was gone and hide him for some reason lol
Certainly one of the most relatable and likable characters on the show.
@@noname583 Just seek out the "Rise of the Federation" novels. A great series about what happened after the final episode. Don't give up on Trip so fast!
While I *loved* Star Trek Enterprise, I *hated* the finale.
I didn't mind it that much. Perhaps it was cos I was blinded by the fact that some TNG actors were back. Having said that, I did really did react badly to the killing off of Trip. I still think that was a bad move for a final episode. I fucking LOVED Enterprise apart from that, and was rather sorry to see it be cancelled. :(
@@VauxhallViva1975 So was I. I loved Star Trek The Next Generation. What I hated most about *"These Are the Voyages"* was that the program was based on a *holodeck program.* I remember saying "WTF?!" Of all the ways one could've ended the series, I thought they could've chosen a better ending for the series.
I loved Enterprise. I only liked Star Trek: Enterprise. A lot, but still...
A _lot_ of people (myself included, naturally) actually view the two-parter 'Demons' and 'Terra Prime' as the _true_ finale of 'Enterprise', with 'These Are the Voyages' only being viewed as a finale to the current Star Trek era as a whole. (Albeit still a badly done episode.)
The era that went from 87 to 05. Before 1987 will have my respect, and beyond 2005 will have my lament. I'm done with Star Trek. They will never get my money again. The Orville took off and I went with them.
I still can't figure out why mercury-blob Janeway was so incredibly insistent on making a Hail Mary run for the alpha quadrant when all evidence plainly showed she should return to the Demon planet asap and not try to impersonate the real Voyager crew upon reaching the Federation... her stubbornness in that situation and the navigational delays it caused cost her blob crew their alien lives... every time I watch it I am aghast at her decisionmaking here.
@@avarielblackwing6613 yeah but they didn't find out in time that they were the copies if I remember right. They didn't have enough time to get back to there planet and survive if I'm recalling the episode right.
...and this is why those two jack asses should _not_ be celebrated.
@@Ragnarok345 Sorry, didn't mean to throw ya off..., going back to the original post, the 2-parter is actually "Demon Planet" (Harry's a blob!) and "Course: Oblivion" (we're all blobs). Quicksilver puddle people. My comment referred to the latter episode.
I really wish Enterprise had been able to have more seasons. I think a missed opportunity was not having Trip and T'Pol finally formalize a relationship with each other and even going on to have a human Vulcan hybrid child of their own. I think that could have made for an interesting C plot for a season with issues cropping up from both the Vulcan and human sides of the aisle.
What went wrong is that they had to slap together a series finale when the writers had already written out another season that was supposed to follow.
Rian Johnson could learn a lesson in humility from Rick Berman and Brannon Braga.
Amen to that!
I know. They did not blame the fans. Really appreciate that. That's how you create loyalty.
I was gonna say the same about Benioff and Weiss
So can Alec Peters....
Berman and Braga come off looking very classy. If you watch the TNG Blu-Ray extras, pretty much everyone involved ends up saying at some point, "That was a mistake on my part." I have to believe that's why they did so well. They could recognize when something didn't work.
Berman talked about the episode "Yesterday's Enterprise" and said that that story would have been far better to use to bridge the TOS and TNG movies than Star Trek Generations.
The scene where Archer is heading to give his speech, the most important moment of his life, and he backtracks to give T'Pol a bearhug. Gets me every time I see it.
oh man, it never occured to me that they could have done this episode with a post-nemesis Riker. that would have been a huge step towards improving this episode
It's a masterpiece when we consider what we got today like sonar in space.
Star Trek creators with integrity? What a novel concept (looks angry at STD makers).
STD is the show that made me NEVER watch new Star Trek again. I'm not watching their Section 31 show, I'm not watching their Picard series, and I'm not watching whatever else they decide to poop out. They're more interested in a wider audience than their hardcore fans, they're more interested in pleasing NPC's than writing quality Star Trek, and they're so tone-deaf with their morally-righteous agenda it doesn't even come off as exploring morals--"This is the answer, guys. Just go with it."
And when they've alienated literally half of their audience, they don't even apologize for it. If they hate me but not my money, they're getting neither.
@@QrazyQuarian So if those shows are good you are not watching? Thats a load of crap. For one thing, the hardcore fans are in their 50's and 60's. People start dying out by then in some cases. They have to reach a different audience because soon there will be no original fans left. It's been over 50 years man. Star Trek had gotten Stale. To deny that is just being naive. Std is not ground breaking by any means. But it has kept Star Trek Alive. And if that will bring good Trek as the years go by, then it was worth it. And maybe section 31 or Picard are it. So don't give me that you will not watch it.
@@QrazyQuarian great Star Trek is getting rid of'fans' like you. If they don't it will never grow again
@@finthegeek They're not getting rid of fans. You make it sound like they're actively trying to say we don't matter, in which case that's a HORRIBLE practice. Because it sends the message that in the future when the new fans are a problem they'll just get rid of you. I think you're just trying to say I don't matter to make yourself feel better about me not having the same opinion as you, like you have to feel superior or defend the direction of Star Trek. I don't know why an opinion is the equivalent of pissing in your corn flakes, but there wasn't any need to be so inflammatory.
Secondly, I'm not beholden to watch something, and I'm allowed to dissent when I don't like the direction of something. "You don't matter" isn't an argument, it doesn't explain a damn thing, and it only reveals how petty you are. I frankly don't like the direction of most entertainment these days. And I don't feel like I'm missing out on something I cannot in good conscience support. And I can discuss the reasons why freely and expect civil discussion in return. Lastly, I can walk away from a show at any time.
And I have. If you want to make that bruised ego of yours feel better by saying "Good riddance, you don't matter", that's fine. I'm quite used to hearing it from piss-ants like you who get off on making others feel inferior for an opinion, who are immune to good conversation with diverse and fair arguments on both sides. I won't lose sleep over it because at the end of the day, "you don't matter" is an argument that could not be more false.
@@joelaton1062 Almost everything you said could not be more false I'm a hardcore fan. Been one my whole life. I'm 27. All my friends (roughly the same age) are big fans. Star Trek had in fact NOT gotten stale. It's a franchise that has kept consistently giving since its inception in the 60's, with virtually the same style. The ONLY reason Enterprise ended early was because the way we watched TV in 2005 changed, and CBS was late to the game and as a result had to cancel it. I wrote a great article about it on Quora. It had nothing to do with the series "getting stale". It had everything to do with more networks (and thus more competition) and more enticing shows on those networks. Star Trek can still go strong with the same style that it's always had. They simply choose not to. Yes, you are correct and I will concede that this new direction is to reach a wider audience. But it's not because older fans are dying. That is an asinine assumption based on NOTHING. I and my group of friends some such examples to the contrary. My brother's ex is a MASSIVE fan. Star Trek Adventures, a tabletop RPG set specifically in the 23rd and 24th Centuries Prime universe is another example, and the many UA-cam podcasts where people young people play, is yet another counterexample. I get comments all the time from people who like my TNG Starfleet hoodie; plenty of people, young and old, say I have class for perpetuating such great content. And you're saying that it wouldn't reach a wide net? No. They want to reach the widest audience possible. I don't dispute that. But as a fan my whole life, I cannot in good conscience follow the direction they're going. If it get better, I'll start again. But I'm not beholden to give money to something I don't support. Period. That's fine, and there's nothing wrong with that.
I think the framing works okay, although it's far from the best idea. For me, the worst thing was NOT showing Archer's speech and the signing of the charter.
That was my immediate reaction when I watched the finale years ago
To me the worst thing was the killing off of Trip Tucker.
@@bcs2em625 Yeah that was bitter too
@@bcs2em625 I take some solace in the fact that his death was kind of retconned in the continuation-novels.
And the insulting manner of Trip's death. Twitter:@GhostwordsTV
Agree with you on nearly all your points, Dave. So how to fix this conundrum? They could make a big screen Enterprise movie!!
The Xindi arc would have made a great movie. It always had the feel of a movie rather than episodes in a series.
As bad as some of the moments where, These Are The Voyages was still light years better than anything STD produced.
Great video as always Dave.
I concur!
SO true. Rest in Peace old friend... A toast! ........ To absent friends.
Ah, the sharp stick in the eye versus the sharp stick in the crotch comparison :) I know what you mean, but that's (IMHO) a really, really low bar :)
I think the problem with the episode is twofold -- the framing method of using the holodeck made it "not real," as mentioned, not really an ENT episode -- and it airing after the excellent two-parter that people felt SHOULD have been the series finale didn't help, either.
Killing Trip was terrible not just in theory, but almost laughable in execution because of how manic Trip comes off. Like Archer was the Precious, to be protected at all costs. And it was done (again, IMHO) in overly-dramatic fashion.
Lastly, Archer's speech is so great that ... we don't get to hear it. Not a deal-breaker on its own, since that kind of plot device has been used a LOT, but in this case it's just one more reason to knock the episode's ranking down.
Better than Discovery (so far, I've only seen S1), but again, so is that sharp stick :)
@@earlallison I most definitely concur!
I'll to take your word on STD since Ive steadfastly refused to watch any of it beyond the trailers which left me even less enthusiasm for STD than I have for seeing a CGI life like warthog sing "Makunnamatata" this weekend.
There was a plan to bring evil Mirror Universe Captain Kirk on Enterprise. That would be an awesome two part end to this series.
They would of brought a whole new spin on things
There was also a plan to have Chef be Shatner, and Daniels save history by bringing him into the future to impersonate JTK at a critical moment: to be honest, I think it could've been cool if you could get Shatner and Stewart to have Chef be called "Tibs", then end with Picard observing Shatner/Chef telling Archer that Tibs is short for Tiberius, and mentioning that his daughter was engaged to a junior officer named Kirk.
Wow. Terrific video and I agree completely. I did not realize Braga and Berman had such regret about the episode. I too appreciate their honesty. I loved Enterprise and am sorry it ended so soon.
Wow, Imagine an age when the entertainment industry held themselves accountable for their work, and admitted their mistakes, instead of blaming the fans! I remember those days... I fear they'll never return.
“Too many people felt that way for them to be wrong.”
There are many desks in present-day Hollywood that needs this as a plaque.
It's even more disappointing when you consider that Braga co-wrote the excellent finale of TNG.
If I remember correctly, most of the staff was already working on Generations. They were all kind of surprised at how well the TNG finale turned out. After seven years, everyone was burned out.
And then you remember that Braga also wrote the teleplay for "Threshold". So "These are the Voyages..." wasn't quite his worst credit.
And now produces The Orville. He's done more good than bad.
@@dragonknightleader1 Didn't mean to imply that he's a bad writer. His quality episodes definitely outweigh his head shakers. The man co-wrote "All Good Things..." and won a Hugo.
@@Sensorium19 Agreed. You can't deny Braga's importance and influence on what modern Trek became. Whether you measure by how much time or how many series very few left their mark on the universe and lore of Star Trek the way he did. He never really played it safe either, which is probably why he is so polarizing. I enjoyed more of his work than I disliked. However, that being said, DS9 has been and always will be my favorite entry into the canon and I'm glad Braga turned down the opportunity to be a part of it. If he hadn't I don't know that DS9 would have been as distinct as was/is.
2:20 That was my thought exactly. While I loved TNG I feel like the series finale should've been solely about the NX-01 and her crew. To me the scene where Archer asks Phlox if he had ever done anything unethical in his almost pitch-black, torn up ready room proved Enterprise was capable of producing powerful moments on par with any of the other Trek series.
heh, I think Dear Doctor from season 1 is one of my favorite episodes of any trek.
Ah cmon Dave, The Pegasus was a very remarkable episode! One of the best of TNG.
markequinox Exactly! I had to pause his video to check to make sure someone else had pointed this out. If anything, it was the remarkable nature of Pegasus that failed These Are The Voyages because it felt so shoe-horned in. I just couldn't believe that Riker would be pissing around on the holodeck in such an irrelevant program to help him decide whether the phase-cloak experiments should be restarted. It didn't make sense! And Pegasus was such a memorable episode, they weren't going to slip the silliness under the radar.
markequinox Sorry Mark! You'll have to jog my memory...
markequinox Bugger I was hoping the world really was that small, and that my memory was simply failing me. Ah well! Coincidences happen.
I thought Picard should have kept his mouth shut about the cloaking device.
A remarkable episode of TNG that has no throughline or plot connection whatsoever to what’s going on in this finale episode so, why Troi would recommend Riker go through it when it’s not the least bit relevant is beyond me.
I loved Star Trek: Enterprise. It's my second favorite Star Trek after the original series.
Sad thing is it’s more true to lore then almost anything on Star Trek Discovery.
Enterprise was respectful to Star Trek and ended way too soon.
Yes
Pretty funny to see such comments about "New Trek" on pretty much every Star Trek video these past few years. Given that it was exactly the same comments, from a small subset of "fans", aimed at TNG, DS9 and ENT, when they first came out.
I don't know about you specifically, but many of those "fans", from back then, are the same ones that have now sharpened their pitchforks again.
Interesting, First as for "New Trek" I was talking Discovery ONLY there is plenty of New Star Trek stuff that I didn't even mention (Strange New Worlds, Lower Decks. Personally I think both of which, even if I don't share LD humor, make decent effort towards lore while keeping modern) As for "fans" to me a fan is a fan. @@soul0360
@@soul0360
I have been saying the exact same thing about these ppl 😂😂
Crazy how many ppl I’ve come across that have said how they didn’t like or care for ST Enterprise when it first came out but 10-15 years later are now saying how they should have given it more of a chance and wish it had a 5th season 😂😂
Some have even said how the opening theme song was the reason they didn’t watch the show 🤦♂️
@@jaklinhyde I'm glad, that at least one person read and responded to my comment.
I really hate seeing all this unwarranted negativity.
Sure it's OK to not like a show, and discuss why on the internet. But going out of your way, to soundbite shitpost, on every vaguely related video on UA-cam. Just seems stupid to me.
With Les Moonves in charge, we were lucky to get this episode at all, crap though it is. Moonves has a lot to answer for.
Ah back when Enterprise was the whipping boy of Star Trek those were the days.
Don't it always seem to go, that you don't know what you got 'til it's gone.
Tripp's death allowed him to be re incarnated as a wraith. The total polar opposite character type. And he played that villain SO well!
Jolene Blalock should have become a major Hollywood star. She is everything you see on the screen in Enterprise times ten, in real life. And a great sense of humor to boot.
No one from star trek ever makes it big for some reason.
Nowadays, instead of taking credit for the bad call, the producers would say that we were being sexist against the Troi character and racist against the Riker character's 1/1024th Native American ancestry. "B'cus, you know, it's really the fans' fault, not ours."
I would have liked to see the Romulan War.. It was a key period in trek history.
I think if we would have gotten one more season it would have been the best one.
CRIMSON HAWK
The show runner changed with season 3. That’s why it improved dramatically overnight.
And it was axed by Les Moonves. The same idiot who hated sci-fi in general and Star Trek In particular and greenlit Discovery
Not to defend Moonves, he deserves all the criticism he gets, but the first two seasons were not very good and a lot of viewers had abandoned the show by then. I was a huge Star Trek nerd, but I was so put off by continuity errors and just dumb filler I'd left too. Not to say there were no good episodes, but they were not the majority. I only saw most of Season 3 and all of 4 in repeats. 3 really needed to be watched in order rather than piecemeal to get invested, and I thought 4 was coming close to TNG levels and was sad I didn't see it when originally aired. Disappointing it didn't get a 5th season, but it just took too long to get good.
@@stevereynolds5684 ENT was still pulling in 2-3 million viewers in the USA, which is perfectily acceptable for a sci-fi show and actually far better numbers than the new BGS was getting at the time. Chopping the show wasn't done because it lacked viewers or lost money, Moonves simply didn't like sci-fi full stop and wanted it gone.
@@KiltedCritic it pretty much sounds like Moonves was a US version of Michael Grade who also disliked sci-fi and killed Dr Who after 1989.
Pretty much agree with you on all points. I'm always tetchy about retcons, so when the episode originally aired, that was the element that stood out for me. Upon subsequent rewatchings on BD, the other points you bring up came to light for me.
Its a real shame Enterprise wasn't allowed to continue. As you stated, the 4th season rocked. That was what I wanted from Enterprise from the start, not that dumb, temporal cold war nonsense.
9:40
it wasn't just a "Bad Idea", it was so bad that it was a "Badidea"
I hate how people trash talk Enterprise because of its inconsistent first couple of seasons.
IMO ENT started better than TNG did, it probably would've turned out great had it got the average 7 season run like most Trek.
Exactly. EVERY Trek has sucked at first and gotten better. If anything TNG's first season is the worst of them all. Yes, Enterprise Season 1 was bad, but TNG Season 1 was just awful. Enterprise getting cancelled when it did was like cancelling TNG after Season 3, it just got good and that's when they ended it.
You're correct ENT started better than TNG, but they never really took off either.
Also, the thing is. TNG really did start fresh with original idea.
They tried to differentiate from TOS while maintaining it's cannon on Trek universe.
Sure, first season of TNG was really bad as they tried to find their footing and direction.
It's getting good on second season and took off with high mark at 3rd season.
ENT didn't have that excuse as it's Trek 5th series, so they have the advantadge of many Trek series to reflect, continuity as a team, and with a veteran writer of Trek series on board.
TNG don't have that on their start and really has to build their footing as a Trek.
They should have had Macos right off when they they were on an episode they were great
I was one of them when it first came out. I hated it and refused to watch it. Then later I bought a DVD. Collection with some on it and could not believe how good it was.
@@dalfifran7572 TNG is the least original show. It' used scripts for the original series. Enterprise doesn't need an excuse. It's vastly superior to TNG.
Because of this episode I thought the whole series was a holodeck setting for the TNG cast playing the chief that's why we never saw him. I liked how they used man instead of no one in the final scene
plot twist.. captain archer was really freaking cool, and the series shoudln't have ended.....
agreed... Trip was probably my favorite character, and I was not happy when they killed him off.
Jeff Jaeger ...exactly..i was also upset by that. He was cool..they should have killed off Hoshi...she was useless
This seemed to be them trying to do Deconstruction of Falling Stars from Babylon 5. Except, JMS ended that show properly and Deconstruction was a love letter to the show, story and characters. This was not.
Wow, I'd never really been a Rick Berman fan, but, the way he faced up to his misstep, well, much respect in this current era of butt-hurt, toxic SJW writers.
The wrong was.
1. Killing off Tucker
2. Making into a holo deck adventure with Riker and Troi completely ruining the entire show for me!
It did ruin the entire show.
I didn't mind the ending (don't hurt me). Yes the episode wasn't great, but the final scene with the three ships is brilliant.
There's a set of books that was released after the fourth season that's does well in finalizing the Enterprise series.
x WHACKER x any one of those books would've been a Far more suitable send-off to Enterprise than "These Are The Voyages"
@@karlsmith2570 It's simple. These books (Rise of the federation) fills out ALL of the plotholes in this last episode: Why they had to help out Shran - Why the aliens coped up with and bordered the Enterprise so easily, even when they were not able to match Enterprises speed - why no security team was seen near the intruders - why Trip pulled off that stupid move for no reason - why Trip winked Archer before his death - wait, apropos death, did we ever see Trip dying or a memorial for him? I would suggest seeking them out, the books I mean. LLAP
I always thought they were taking a step in the right direction with the Mirror Universe episodes. When that episode aired with the altered opening credits, I was like, "YES!!!". I had hoped from that point on Enterprise would diverge into a Mirror Universe series. What a missed opportunity to really do something different with Trek.
And on that note... I loved everything about DS9, with the exception of their Mirror Universe episodes. The Terran Empire would not have gone down like punks... even with " Evil Spock" turning good.
I mostly agree with everything you said here.
At a point, DS9 mirror universe turned into a gag, for laughs.
The episode before that is when they should have stopped....
Smiley... Jesus fucking Christ if they only knew how stupid Billy Ray's kid was gonna be....
I agree. Sadly the aiful.STD took that idea for them. Right they are stealing all the ideas for the SJW garbage trek.
@@iami3rian394 I can't reconcile a Klingon, Cardassian, Bajoran, Empire. It makes no sense and IMHO was just a reach to keep some of the major characters in the script.
@@Necron-ez2cc cardassians and bajorans makes more sense in the mirror universe, but the inclusion of the mirror Klingons makes no sense. They're essentially identical to prime Klingons, which is kinda the point. They're neither good, nor evil, but almost a force of nature. They'd never have bowed down, or allied with either race.
The three way combo seems like it was just a writing tool. It'd be like a mirror alliance with the breen and the Romulans. Wouldn't make a lick of sense, but for a scene or three it would look cool.
That's everything wrong with the mirror universe in DS9 in a nutshell.
Hurts so bad that Enterprise got it so right, and DS-fucking-9 botched what.... seven mirror universe episodes?
Disgraceful.
@@iami3rian394 Yep. Botched sums it up quiet well. And to add insult to injury, DS9 by far had the best gritty take on Trek of all the series up till Enterprises debut. I've always thought the "what if" aspect of the Mirror Universe was the goose that laid the golden egg for any Trek writer. Imagine an "Evil Cisco" in the Occupation era Gul Ducat role. An "Evil O'Brien" as Task Master over Cardassian POW slaves. Worf never being raised by humans, and serving as a general in the Klingon military as their nemesis (see what I did there?). Because at that point, the Klingon Empire could have still had that uneasy Alliance with the Romulan Star Empire... which would have been the only interstellar cultures who could have stood up to the Terran Empire. That's all pre-Borg pre-Dominion, mind you.
totally agreed Dave. good content. I was one of the detractors of ENT at rge start but rewatching it on Netflix season 3 and 4 were class
Enterprise season 4 was fantastic but the finale really left us wanting.
There were a few duds in season 4 (including the Orion girl episode), but the finale is possibly the worst.
@@ghenulo Whatever that was a great episode.
Enterprise should have been allowed to continue. The NX-01 refit with secondary hull would have cemented Season 5. And there should have been a post TNG series of Captain Riker aboard the USS Titan.
austin1839 had Enterprise been more successful, I bet someone would have pitched that as a concurrent/follow-up series. “Star Trek: Titan” has a pretty good ring to it, IMO.
RIP Trip. That always pissed me off to no end. Loved the character, especially with his relationship to T'Pol. That episode just craps on everything.
They needed a romance again
I completely agree with the assessment. Although, had Trip Tucker not been killed off, I would probably be more forgiving towards the other missteps.
Owning up to a serious mistake in a finale? Sounds like the inverse of D&D running away from Comic Con over their GoT finale..
I didn’t mind the episode at all. Thought it was cool, as did my dad who was watching the series with me. The fact that the chef was hinted at the entire show and then boom we meet him and it’s Riker and the whole back story ... it added a layer of depth and “ahhh ha” to the entire series for me. I was upset ab Trip and not getting to see Archers speech etc but in the end it was a decent episode!
Thank you for some very good commentary. I loved Star Trek: Enterprise. It was true to Star Trek form and the NX-01 crew was a superb cast. And though I tend to agree that the final episode was a "misstep", I still enjoyed it. This series deserved more seasons!
I loved the Temporal cold War and Xindi arc but at the end of season 4 I felt time was up for Enterprise. It felt stale. 24 was breaking new ground and felt fresh. Looking back watching it today however I would love another season.
Thank you for this video. Enterprise is my second-favorite Star Trek series, after, of course, DS9. I am sad whenever I am reminded of Enterprise’s abbreviated run.
That was a really nice analysis!! I enjoy your videos very much!!
"These Are The Voyages" left me feeling as though the entire Enterprise series, ...not just the final episode, ... had only been derived from official log entries, ...and that we'll never truly know what took place throughout those years. I know that isn't the case, ...but it just corrupted the entire show for me. Just being honest.
I've heard a theory that some people wonder if the entire series was just a bunch of holographic reenactments by Riker while serving on the Enterprise-D - supposedly. there were times when'd he faced a serious decision making situation, and he'd wonder how the crew of the NX-01 would've handled it. He'd recreate one of their missions on the holodeck and insert himself in as a minor member of the crew, mostly various lower-raking crew members, but, interestingly enough, largely putting himself in as the character of Chef (which is supposed to be why this is the only episode where we actually see Chef's face; according to the theory, Chef was actually Riker the entire time) to see how things would play out, and then make his decisions based on what he saw.
@@forcewielder2000 That's impossible. Several things shown in Enterprise aren't in the official record.
When I watched this episode, I said, “Wait, was Enterprise just a holodeck program all along? Did B&B pull off a ‘Dallas’ on us?”
@@MsSissiePooh LOL,… Who would be in the shower?
@@JamieHitt - It would have been nice if Trip was in the shower, actually. 🙂
I will scratch their names off my revenge list now.
1:56 That's what I always thought they should've done.
In fact, I remember when I first heard Frakes and Sirtis were guest starring in the ENT finale. I thought it was gonna be some time travel plot that would feature Riker and Troi sometime after Nemesis with Riker commanding the USS Titan. But when I saw it was actually set during a TNG episode with the ENT cast appearing only in the holodeck, I was like 'WTF?!'.
100k dude well done
100% agree Enterprise was cancelled when it had finally gotten good but sadly people had already given up on it.
Terra prime was the series finale everything else was an ova
You hit the nail on the head. Enterprise was the second best Start Trek series, IMO, but it took a couple seasons to really become top tier.
Great video Dave. You continue to rock!
I'm saddened it got canceled. I dislike how they hamfisted riker and troi into it. It doesn't help Marina and Jonathan got hefty a fair amount, and that they put it into a part of the TNG show which doesn't make sense really for that specific episode. I really wish they continued Enterprise and further into the future. I still want to know what happened to Archer. His future was really never outlined other than. HE HELPED MAKE THE PRIME DIRECTIVE AND SHIT. Ok cool, but what happens after that? We need MORE early star fleet. Theres a huge gap between it and TOS.
man i really do miss star trek
Congrats on 100k!
Excellent video, Dave. I'm old enough to have watched the original Star Trek's initial broadcasts. I always liked all of Enterprise. But, I remember quite a bit of criticism of the show by some Trek fans. In the light of our current era of Star Trek: Discovery, I bet a lot of Trek fans are kicking themselves. Trek fans brought it on themselves by being overly critical. I think that's partly why current Star Trek and Star Wars producers are so dismissive of fans; that we'll always complain.
Agreed. I felt like they took so many great characters and turned their lives into 43 minutes of filler.
I was one of those life-long Trekkers who- in my early 20s- deliberately walked away from _ENT_ before the first season had ended. There were so many things in rapid succession that pissed me off, and I just couldn't tolerate bashing myself over the head every week as a result. _(Ironically, I'm strangely pleased this happened, because it prepared me for the bizarre heartache that is __-std-__ as a result. Weird how that works out, huh?)_ While it was still on the air I would _randomly_ tune in, but I just couldn't get over the bitter taste of the first season. I wasn't even made aware that _ENT_ ended until after it was already off the air. _Good,_ I'm glad she show is gone so it won't torture us anymore and we can get back to _Trek_ that is actually _good._ Maybe we'll get another _TNG_ movie that will fix the giant amount of stupid that is the ironically-named _Nemesis._
It wasn't until years after the show had been cancelled that a family friend sent me DVR copies of the fourth season, and I became aware of the further tragedy of _ENT._ The Fourth Season was really, Really, REALLY _good!_ Yeah, I still hate the -akiraprise,- the shuttles, T'pol's fucking stupid/derrogative/unnecessary catsuits and Scott Bakula to this day, but the _writing_ went a long ways to allow me to ignore most of those shortcomings (as, BTW, good writing is capable of doing in many Hollywood scenarios!). Once in a great while, if I'm feeling particularly masochistic, I'll go back, grit my teeth and pick a Fourth Season episode off Netflix, but it's the fact that the show was _finally_ making this turnaround at the precise point when no one was around to actually _notice_ these changes that makes it all the more tragic.
Aaaaaand thennnnn _These Are The Voyages..._ came along and absolutely destroyed all that good will the rest of the final season had built up. I can tolerate some bullshit because the Fourth Season had been so good, but _thee one thing_ in the series finale that absolutely drives me crazy is Troi's line while standing in Engineering: "It's a tragedy- Commander Tucker will never make it back alive from this mission."
*_WWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWHAT!?_* Y-- You actually _told us_ in very clear and no uncertain terms that he was going to die _before_ it happened!!! You completely, totally and utterly SPOILED THE SURPRISE!
This wasn't even the thing where Trekkers found out Spock was going to die in _TWoK before_ the movie came out, and so director Nicholas Meyers deliberately threw audiences off the trail early on by using the simulator room to 'kill' Spock so that we were completely (AND PROPERLY) disarmed and off-guard for when his real death occurred at the end of the movie. _That_ was intuitive and blatantly GOOD writing and directing.
Or the admittedly-unintentional gaffe in _Generations_ where Riker and Picard commented on Worf's report about trying to shoot down Soran's solar probe: "That's a pretty big margin of error." "Much too big."
But, I mean, what kind of fucked-up time-crunch were those _ENT_ writers under at that point to where that line from Troi slipped past them!?
Perhaps they should bring back an aniversary show, i.e. 20 years from that last episode. I'm thinking along the lines of how Voyager ended with the doctor being married, Tom and B'lanna with a beautiful daughter, and a silver-haired Janeway toasting to the unforgettable memories of their travels in the Delta quadrant.
The aniversary episode could have one last Xendi who escaped that final destruction and is hell-bent on killing all humans.
Oh, and whichever original Enterprise member can't make an appearance because they are too busy or they have a scheduling conflict, well they loose out and their character gets killed off in the begining. And that's the start of the show.
Archer and his crew can save humanity, because he's done it before.
If this sounds vaguely familiar, it is. Think Kirk in Star Trek III with humpback whales to save earth, Picard saving humanity from the Borg, Janeway, again, saving everyone by destroying the Borg, etc...
It will be a suitable final episode of an historic crew that EVERY academy student will learn and what every food geek should know. 🤔
This episode was cleverly retconned as re-written history in the "season 5" books that lead in to the Romulan War
Wouldve been a cool episode In the middle of a season
But as a series finale I was disappointed
Character death is fine, but it seemed like a punk way to go
Deep regrets about Enterprise. It was finally reaching for the essence of what makes ST great.
To be honest, the only reason I clicked the thumbnail was because I was so convinced of the youthfulness of Troi and Riker. I thought you had photoshopped the image. I haven't watched Star Trek in decades but hats off to them for pulling that off.
Yes, it was a mistake, an anticlimax and threw out the continuity. But you have to give credit to Braga & Berman for recognizing and taking responsibility for their errors in judgment.
It's bloody obvious. It was like a bad episode of Star Trek: TNG rather and hardly anything like the finale of Star Trek: Enterprise.
Still better than Discovery.
I always thought Enterprise should have focused more on the formation of the Federation. On the small group of worlds caught between the Klingons and romulans forming a defensive pact to survive.
I agree. ENT Season 3 and 4 are really amazing. The more I re-watch them the more I feel like those are my favorite seasons of Trek. I use to dislike the Xindi but what is more SciFi than a race of aliens made of different species. Anyways, ENT should have had a 5th Season. But if they had to end it early they should have just ended with Demons and Terra Prime.
Sometimes what seems like the best idea in your head, when implemented can be pretty bad. As for the show at the time it was the weakest series from Star Trek universe. I liked some episodes. I liked some cool ideas of future tech like for example that small ship that was bigger on the inside.
Yeah, because a small ship that's bigger on the inside has never been done before.
>.>
Berman admitting the mistake is something the current regime in charge of the franchise would never do. They would only call us gatekeepers and toxic whining fans.
I remember watching the episode first time it played and it was a complete slap in the face of the Enterprise cast.
Once again, you're on point. I didn't like Enterprise at first but it did grow on me and the last episode felt so nostalgic. TNG was an amazing series!!
Next cBS show: ST: RIKER, Next year: ST: Wesley!
R. M. P. shut up Wesley!
@@AdamStephenTaylor LMAO. Good one. 🤣🤣
we want younger fans so we are announce star trek:babies series. "um captain I think I just launched a torpedo".
@@KCKingdomCreateGreatTrekAgain "Lower Decks" animation on Nickelodeon will have that effect... I think.
@@LordBruuh well he would be a REAR admiral in the series :))