Mesh Networking Over Ham Radio, HSMM Broadband Hamnet
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- Опубліковано 26 сер 2024
- Getting started in Broadband Hamnet, previously known as HSMM-MESH networking for amateur radio. As amateur radio operators we have our own "Internet like" backbone, for emergency communications or for fun. It is very useful and can be deployed for a lot less money than you think. Check out this video to learn all about it and a future video sometime when I get it operational at my QTH.
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www.broadband-hamnet.org
Well Eric I enjoyed it. I shared it on my Facebook to get it out there 73
Ham radio mesh networking has advanced a LOT since this video was recorded, and now a lot has changed. Please consider pulling this video down due to its age. Thanks in advance!
This is pretty awesome. I am taking my amateur radio operator exam soon and I had no idea this was being done. I'm a network/systems administrator by trade so I'm really interested in this project and once I get my license I'm going to look into setting up a node!
14:28 broadband-hamnet.org
5:40 What is it: "our own little internet backbone, without the internet" ; 4:30 the more people that join this network, the larger and more robust it can be; 16:04 Google-mapped mesh nodes ; 28:00 more use-cases
3:45 Capabilities: sending files, sharing files, running servers, IP networking, IP cameras, VoIP, 15:15 feed internet to D-Star or DMR mode repeater site using a mesh: beam mesh to the repeater site, take internet off of that and feed the repeater with it (??)
4:00 Why need it: In grid-down scenario, System Fusion, DMR, and D-star not viable because internet-dependent; what is he saying about PSK, RTTY, FT8??; "more robust than APRS and digital HF radio"
5:00 Basic equipment: Router (or Ubiquiti gear); Antenna
3:15 Basic how-to: 1) flash the router with a different firmware to turn it into a ham radio device using 2.4GHz 2) set this up on an autoconfiguring mesh network that will automatically join any mesh network nearby and configure itself
Detailed how-to:
7:25 1) Get router's model number (some limitations) ... need to factory reset router or just move onto updating firmware??
21:20 Download the correct router firmware for your device (.bin file) from broadband-hamnet.org/software-download.html
22:22 Update the router's firmware ("flash" the router)
24:00 Reset router (to let the computer get a new IP from router)
24:15 To configure device, go to localnode:8080 Basic Setup; change name and password; Node Type: "mesh node"; do NOT change SSID; set antennas (??)
9:53 Replace router's antennas: Purchase adapter for reverse polarity TNC connector; Antennas e.g. could use e.g. 5 foot wifi antenna ; his is 11:48 TP Link 24 dBi parabolic dish antenna for wifi ($38); 13:43 omnidirectional antennas
{not sure if applies to Broadband Hamnet, but maybe be careful of too much gain; other research: "will actually see lower speeds and poorer signal quality as a high gain antenna is being used; antenna gain shoots over the target area and data rates are reduced"}
8:05 Install outdoors: Unless contacts very nearby, it's going to have to be outside, mounted in weatherproof enclosure ; 10:25 can't leave in the house and run antenna outside because the loss on the coax will eat it up before it even gets to antenna; you can use ~1ft pigtail cable to connect to external antenna
8:05 Connect power: Option A: battery and solar panel ; Option B: POE from computer to router 8:47 for power adapter ($6)
29:30 For advice, go to broadband-hamnet.org/hsmm-mesh-forums.html
18:05 How mesh networks work
is this another stab at me because i ramble?
@@HamRadioConcepts Ha, no. Organizing for possible build; thanks very much for the info.
Eric, this is great! I have been looking for a good, down to earth explanation of this and your video does an outstanding job of doing that. Thanks for taking the time to do this. I am going to seriously look at setting up a node. 73, George K2WO.
I like watch you and as well learning things from you about ham radio concepts from you
Amazing video, thanks for the upload! I have the same router from years ago, and I've found it and am going to set it up as soon as I pass the technician exam and my name shows up in the FCC database! Cheers
You always seem to hit subjects I am interested in. Thanks.
I was at a Goodwill earlier today and ran across one of these routers for 4 bucks. I just thought for cheap maybe searching online for uses in Ham radio for something like this. Surprise I got a hit for your video. I am very interested in learning more about this. Until today I never even heard of this in the hobby. Thanks for the awesome video, it is getting me started. 73's KE6CLF
check out the sequel to these routers, I think now ARDEN is the newest but there is still HSMMMESH activity out there. 73
Trade me something for 3 nodes and 2 Yagis. I was all in on this 3 years ago in Atlanta. 4 people joined the group and then no one cared. Sold off 10 nodes and it never got off the ground. Got worse when the developers started discouraging the use of Linksys in favor of the much better and much more expensive Ubiquity line. Darn shame this never took off as much as it could have.
Ronny Julian it should be simple and cheap :( and it will grow. Tp-link seems to be the most economic than linksys that are overpriced even we one hand
Did not know TP-Link devices had alternate Amateur Firmware (Do they?) Please send a link to such. Thanks!
Ronny Julian I don't know. but they support openwrt
It might be possible to load the mesh script on it
this sounds amazing and exciting, hope I get to get into ham and mesh networking one day
Very fascinating. I am going to not only look into this, but probably run a node off my solar powered chicken coop. Thank you for bringing this to my attention.
Thanks for watching.. 73
Just make sure your chickens have passed at least the tech level license before they start using it.... 73 de N6DSW
This is SO AWESOME!!! Can't wait to Learn More about it!!
I have so many question.
Thank you so much for your vidoes
Happy New Year Eric. I'm putting up a Ubiquiti node in Stuart. Perhaps, over time, we can bridge that gap! 73
Erick, this is Cliff, W5BNW in Bangs TX. I think the net idea would be a great asset to ham radio and I think it will grow as hams like myself get to understanding how it works and what the possibilities are. I am going to do a lot of reading up on this to learn more about it. I enjoyed your presentation and think you for going to the trouble of making this video. Thanks.
Clifford Green I've been through Bangs TX! 73, KE5NSY
If you have been through Bangs you should have gotten on our repeater and made some noise.
147.000 + 94.8
I will add that to my truck radio and say hello next time I'm in brown county.
phycon55 great!
Imagine phone and internet bills were a thing of the past managed by the people. That would make a great future.
Eric your great love your videos full of info Thank you
I don’t really know anything about ham radio, but this is very interesting
@Harley Dawson haha, no
@Otis Kristopher bot-ception 😳😳
Happy New year. I will look into this
It’s unfortunate this never took off.
Thanks Eric, really good explanations, I have to try it...
Very Interesting. Something you can do cheaply with some old equipment and i didn't know about. Thanks for sharing! AD4JH
And thank you for watching.
Glad you did this one. It's one that can be extremely important in every emergency arsenal.. N7PB Paul OldNormanBates RememberTubes©
I loved the video. I just been looking into this topic the last few days. I’ve seen this video was from three years ago and my question is how has things changed since the last three years? has the networks grown? I’ve been a ham almost a year. I’ve been in general since February 2021. I bought a IC 7300 And been operating HF 3-4 wks. So not a whole lot of experience but I like the idea of mesh network in case of a grid down scenario. That’s why I got into ham radio. I got interested during the Covid shut down watching SHTF videos heard about ham radio
i think this is a really cool concept. i have done a little research and ubiquti and aredn may be the better bet. with aredn, they can go to negative channels which allows for less noise and farther distances.
Is this still running?
Very cool. Thanks for this video. You have sparked my curiosity. 73 k3oe
If you mount your node in a weatherproof box near the antenna, what threat do temperature extremes have on the node hardware? Linksy routers are not made to withstand extreme temperature or humidity, they were built for indoor use with a fairly narrow humidity and temperature range. Here in NJ such a setup outside in direct sunlight the box internals could easily reach 120°F or more. And winter temps have dipped below 20°F for days at times. In FL or similar locations I would think that thing would be fried in less than a week.
Good Video Thanks for sharing!
Great video. Thanks.
So... Just wondering- Data is digital - and what if- a Mesh Node could transmit and receive digital data over HF - Would we be able to establish an RF link with Europe? The real-time TX and RX separated would be a problem, but split operation to achieve full duplex mode, similar to the way we do satellites?
A good video, thanks. If there is a local RF user near you, who has a link to a tunnel, then you can easily pop over the pond :-) I run a tunnel and can see many Stateside Hams. Currently I am running the one Cam, in my shack, but I intend to expand this further.
What would be good is to see some footage on how people use the Mesh: files transfers; Web Server; IP Telephones; etc.
Best 73 de John G0GCQ
System fusion, dmr, and dstar is not dependent on the internet. You just cant use the internet side of it. For example, system fusion GM mode makes a little network on the air without the internet. (But the radios dont rebroadcast the signals, would be nice though)
That's what I meant. Sorry, Hard to be perfect HAHAHAHA
I thought about it
Seems like a lot of nodes on the map for a website that hasn't been updated in 2014. I'd like to see a video with the differences of HamWAN and HamNET and ARDEN.
@KJ4YZI
Thank You for Sharing, Please inform everyone watching that this is not a replacement for their Internet from their ISP. It is for Ham Radio Communications only as stated in their site. Many comments are pointing to them trying to use this as a fail over to their main network instead of being solely for communications and Ham Related devices. Their Netflix streaming should not be on this network.
www.broadband-hamnet.org/documentation/67-hsmm-mesh-design-philosophy.html
"*being an Amateur Radio network, it can only carry traffic that is allowed under FCC Part 97 rules"
Problems with using adhoc networks and mesh techniques;
1) Repeating packets halves your available bandwidth. When you have only one transceiver in a mesh node it has to use the channel to both receive and then transmit the traffic. This implies that throughput between a client of that node and the node itself is halved. You may signal at 54 mBits but your real throughput will be half of that or less. This is a simplification but never-the-less a significant point. There is an economy of scale associated with this problem but the hidden node problem mentioned later moots that economy.
2) Mesh networks are by definition limited to only one channel. The mesh can not occupy two channels when only one transceiver is available at a node. This means the total available bandwidth for the entire mesh is limited to whatever that single channel will support. Again this is a simplification but never-the-less a significant point.
3) Mesh networks are very vulnerable to the "hidden node" problem, even when routing protocols such as OSLR are in use. This is because the communications are taking place at layer one and layer two in the OSI model and they do not know anything about the architecture of the higher layers in the network. They can't preemptively avoid packet collisions so they must be able to detect and recover from collisions as they happen. Hence the CSMA-CA protocol used in the 802.11x suite of protocols. This problem is very significant in mesh networks because collisions generate repeats and repeats generate collisions...
Summary:
This is a fun idea but can not provide sufficient bandwidth even for a metropolitan area network, let alone a national backbone. It is a good idea for emergency deployment of IP networks on a local scale but does not scale to regional or even state size networks. Such networks are better built out point-to-point or point-to-multipoint distribution systems which more closely model traditional deployments. Said another way, this technology would be a great way for a small to medium sized city or county to deploy an emergency response data network provided they had a means to aggregate the bandwidth and move it onto a higher speed backbone so as to transport it out of the local area.
I have a CAT 6 cable, would that work if I don't have a CAT 5?
I'm interested! But not ready equipment-wise. Give it time.
Very nice video btw
touching on the transmit side of this thing being 400mw or so , couldn't you technically use a 2.4 ghz amplifier of 1 to 2 watts for a little help over coming coaxial loss for the instance of keeping the router indoors and having the antenna outside ? or would that be a pointless item to employ on such a project ?
Would be better to get a ubiquity model that is made for your desired use/power
Wouldn't connecting one of these meshed networks to the internet start sending encrypted data over amateur frequencies, which I thought you'd get in trouble for?
Nice video as always, thanks for sharing the information. I’d like to know more about a dual Yaggy solution, or the Omni and Yaggy solution. From what I’ve read, it doesn’t seem to be so simple. And most examples I see on the web, seem to only have one antenna not both. - Looking on Amazon tonight, it seems the WRT54GL brand new is only $34. Yes they’re available for less on eBay but not much less and are used items. I’m based in Atlanta, but also have a home in South Florida. 73 de nn4qq
I tried to do a mesh knot ham just Wi-Fi. But it was a bit complicated. And even if I have 3 routers at home it's not useful.
And it's hard to pick a mesh standard they are a lot if it's ham mesh you have this .But Batman and so on are on Wifi.
In the Android market under MANET I think is some mesh but because of ed s I don't trust the creators :D
great
This could be important for Bitcoin in the case of widespread outage or censorship attempts by nation states.
Hey Eric,
I went to the Broadband Hamnet site and attempted to pull up one of those maps showing where there were sites, but got an error saying something like I was not allowed. I even registered to see if that would make a difference, it didn't. I would really like to know of sites near me. I live in a little town called Boldo Alabama, but my address is Jasper, AL. Boldo is so small it doesn't have a traffic light or a post office. Could you bring up that map and let me know of any nodes near me?
Really appreciated the video by the way!
73,
Wayne WB4RHA
hamnetdb.net/map.cgi
can cisco aironet devices be used for this?
What do you do about the hidden transmitter problem?
Bit of a nuisance that you have to be logged in to see the map!
Is there any license requirement?
But HEY - Thanks for the info, and I've bookmarked that page.
OH - Forgot (old age!)
Happy New Year!
Well, that makes sense.
So, is this limited to Extra only?????????????
No, a technician class licensee is totally permitted to use this.
Ok, thanks! THAT is what I wanted to know, and probably others would like to be sure too. I do have a general and pretty much assumed it would be permitted, but it is always better to check!
Eric, have you checked out ARDEN?
IT's AREDN
Yes I have... Maybe a video in the future..
Do you have an idea how I can make a free mesh that draws internet from my network. But my network to be secure. I couldn't figure it out. Either it's wide open or there is no internet.
This is a 3 year old reply to your question about having internet access on a mesh network, idk if you ever found an answer but it is possible. All you need to do is have the firmware mentioned on this video installed on the routers, but then log into the admin page on each and every router and at a minimum, set a password for each router/node. Since adding a password will "break" the connectivity with the rest of the community mesh, you might as well also change the network name. Note, you need to keep the exact same network name and password across all the nodes, even down to the capitalization and spaces.
Once you do this, simply plug one of the routers into a modem with internet access. You can also use a laptop, connected to a wireless hotspot on a phone, and then enable "internet connection sharing" on the laptop over the ethernet port, and connect the laptop over ethernet to one of the nodes. If you have a newer laptop without an ethernet port, you can buy a usb ethernet adapter for like $20 on amazon!
This will do exactly what you're asking about. The key is that all the routers need to have the EXACT SAME password and security type, and the one with the internet access needs to be connected through ethernet to a modem in a house, or to a laptop (or raspberry pi) over ethernet that is receiving a wifi signal containing internet from another device, such as another home router, or a wifi hotspot, and that laptop/pi needs to be configured to share the wifi internet connection over the ethernet port.
Let me know if you ever figured this out or are still interested in it! I like the same idea and I want to do something similar
You’re not allowed to encrypt the messages as a HAM so you’d have to be careful, at least during peacetime.
I have been looking for the router locally, seems someone is buying them all up..
MIKE KN4EMY, maybe you could check thrift stores when traveling.
Here in my dutch PA country they only have 5,7GHz version hamnet point 2 point. Not like the US HSMM version. Many dutch hams want to use the USA version of HSMM mesh on 2,4GHz with firmware for modern modem-routers, but its hard to find. . The elite PA hams ar not willing to corporate with anybody ,anything different than there own private 5,7GHz net. Thats the reason why hamnet is not a succes here in PA country. Pricey 5,7GHz acces points, multiple ip's, and no US HSMM Mesh version. My vote goes to the USA HHMS mesh version. I hope that many people will join ur nice network.
Do I need a ham ticket for it to happen?
Yes. Because you are transmitting over ham frequencies.
You might want to give this a look. Check out the review of the person that is using it for Broadband-Hamnet
a.co/7vFbWgP
That is what windows looks like now? Eeeegh.
AREDN and ubiquiti gear is so much better. Linksys BBHN is old and a waste of time. It doesnt even use Full Part 97 frequencies like AREDN does. Check out AREDN.ORG
Once he said it couldn't be used to send dog on girl porn I lost interest.
Something like this will never reach it's full potential as you need to be a licensed ham