The Moss House by Clara Barley which focuses on the relationship between Anne Lister and Ann Walker from a contemporary standpoint did a great job of portraying Anne and Ann's highs and lows. It felt like a true relationship which burned bright at first then guttered out as the years went on. Plus at one point, Anne screams at Marian during a fight in reference to Ann Walker "She is my wife! She belongs to me!" and Marian leaves Shibden after that revelation. I hoped that would be shown at some point in the series.
The B B C made a film year's ago called the secret diaries of miss Anne Lister and it's still on UA-cam and DVD and was also filmed at shibden. That was more about relationships
The B B C made film year's ago called the secret diaries of miss Anne Lister and it was also filmed at shibden and it's still on UA-cam and DVD.that was more about relationships
I think it’s very evident in S1 that Charles knows about Mariana and Anne when at the breakfast table Mariana is discussing AL’s latest letter and mentions taking AW to see Steph. He says something like “Is there no end to Miss Lister’s selflessness?” His attitude toward AL is very obvious to me. Though you’d think he might not mind their dalliance as it keeps his wife entertained while he seeks gratification elsewhere. I see her more as eye candy to flaunt in front of his older gentleman friends.
Have always enjoyed (& lol) with you on GJ reviews. Read the 'comparison of diaries' of Walker and Lister at InSearchofAnnWalker for the Christmas period of 1834. These are fantastic readings that expand on Whitbread et al quite a bit. Lister did sexually 'grubble' Mariana over that Christmas in 1834. She writes of how she herself kept her clothing on all night as she slept along fearing M would come in, so no skin to skin, but she did 'grubble' Mariana. It is also fun to read Walker's take on the same day. Talk about details, Lister kept track of their monthy periods as well. I find that authors tend to use excerpts only and not the entire entry. That's includes Liddington, as well, who always leans more toward coal, estates, and politcal doings.. thus the rather disappointing S2 taken too long in that direction, imo. An aside: I was surprised to read how Lister fondled Sophie Ferrall on that Copenhagen jaunt. )Knee-sitting and kissing) lol The diaries are great; autobiography at its finest. A&A were in love and moreso in 'caring' for each other. Both were CEOs of the time, powerful and wealthy. The daily meetings and letters were exhausting to me, No wonder they loved to get out of town to travel. Lister would have left Walker, thus the money, in many of her frustrating notations. Walker had her issues, too. (I think she self-medicated with booze based on her wine cellar etc) Lister was truly a lover of woman, so I get the sexual escapades of her early decades but she was tired (age 40) of the game when Walker appeared (again) front and center. I rec. reading the book by Lynn Pharaoh (she was a de-coder of the diaires) "Anne Lister, Ann Walker, and Me. She writes the truths of love and caring, etc. and uses excerpts as well from the diary. Also watch all vids of Packed With Potential and anything by Pat Esgate etc. I will miss seeing Suranne and Sophie - I need to let go of them (actors) and get back to the real A&A. Although, I will be there for any further seasons. Read free transcripts of Lister's diaries at westyorkshirearchiveservices in UK. They are in progress and up to around 1825 beginning at 1806. Fantastic to read.
YOU are absolutely hilarious! Literally laughing out-loud! I too have read several books and journal entries and you cited many details I have thought of too. Great video! Thanks so much....CG
I knew abut the Belcombe sisters from the diaries and had a similar reaction to you--yowza, Lister had game! The only other thing I will say is that apparently, Helena Whitbread said recently that the STI shared by Marianna, Charles and Anne was a yeast infection. However, given the difficulties in diagnosing disorders from 190 years ago, this is hardly a given. Thank you for your fun and frank discussion of this topic! I admire your willingness to look at Anne Lister and her relationships, warts and all. I had fun.
@@AmandaCostner Right? Like I say, my comments were all in the spirit of sharing information, not correcting you. I loved your video and have subscribed! but whether STI or yeast infection, the horror of medicating with mercury applied directly to the skin is nauseating!
Great fun as always, and intriguing. I knew the bit about the sisters from one of Sally Wainwrights interviews. Been holding off reading the diaries until the TV Series has truly ended. There may yet be a S3 if the fans have anything to do with it. Still hoping. Only time will tell. Looking forward to your videos though. :)
So morning routine here in Ireland, I get up, get coffee machine ready, feed the dog, make myself a green and peppermint tea and stick on UA-cam. Video of you and a guy reacting to Unnnnhhh on recommended. I watch, I laugh very loudly, waking the hubby upstairs. Then see your channel has lots of videos about the genius TV depiction of Anne Lister. Made by my absolute favourite TV drama writer, producer and director Sally Wainwright. Have you also seen Scott and Bailey, Happy Valley and Last Tango in Halifax? If not, I HIGHLY recommend. Happy Valley season 3 (and final season) should be out this autumn / fall or early next year. Lots of love from over here in Bangor Northern Ireland.
Hey thanks for the love!!!! I was picturing myself inside your world haha what a cinematic comment I love it! Haven’t checked out Happy Valley but I am happy to give it a look. I feel like it’s not the first time I’ve heard good things about it!
The fictional Sarah binns was in Anne's earlier life though. She mentions her during 1816. She hadn't met miss brown,mrs barlow, miss Pickford or vere yet.
Actually in that scene where Tib says she's on the sauce she also comments about how Lister did go through all of the sisters. Watch the scene again. If it's not the restaurant scene it's the scene with them at the museum.
I realy apreciat your point of vew on AL, and it always cross my mind that we only have HER point of the things, I'm not taking anything aways of all the acomplishmant she did, just saying that for me i always left some room for some '' yes but...'' what was the other side of the story. I'll be so plz to read AW, specialy when they match date, to see how different of similar they see things. And about the Zeus part... most of the women at time didn't realy enjoyed having sex with their man, woman were cleary denied of having plesure, so when Anne offer them some of her talent they were surely pleased. ;-)
Sorry to bang on, so to speak, in the first series in the carriage Mariana does mention that she left Charles and Anne said it was too conspicuous, she’d just inherited Shibden.
Gentleman Jack creator had "juicy stuff" lined up for season 3 Sally Wainwright has teased what she had in mind for Gentleman Jack prior to its cancellation. This was copied and pasted from the radio times today
The fact that Ann Walker was engaged to a young man who died 3 months before Ann got together with Anne doesn't come up.in the show, nor did we ever know if Ann told Anne about James coming with a proposal in mind. I am typing as you are talking and you just mentioned the nickname Adney. This name came from a bridge in Switzerland called Adney Bridge. Anne liked the bridge so well that she had the small bridge with the Roman arch in it that we see about "1000" times made. Apparently she liked the name too. I do hope that some of the material you are giving will not turn off any person or studio or company who just might otherwise think about helping to fund another season. I just wrote a letter to the Chief Content Officer of HBO. I described her as a great role model. Many of your raunchy stories will only work against my depiction (not that I always liked her myself) if they watch this. I am assuming most of the letter/email/social media people who are begging for the return of the show cannot possibly find this all to be good selling points.
I think any interest in general is good for the fanbase and could possible lead to a studio deciding to pick it up or do a prequel or something. Although I imagine a big factor is how much money it costs to shoot at Shibdin etc.
@@AmandaCostner Thank you for the response.What I am most concerned with is that Americans tend to be more modest and standoffish (at least the ones who aren't playing war here). Where they might have tuned in for a romantic story, some probably were skittish or outright disgusted about what they saw, and might have stopped watching, especially if they are not in the lgbtq community, or aren't close to anyone in it. I am lesbian, so I have seen/heard the negative viewpoints. Ordinarily, I like your reviews very much. Jamalyn
Can't forget how one day Anne was a try hard w a woman then the next entry she was talking mad trash about her and how it wasn't worth her time just to be AGAIN flirting a few entries later *cough cough* Ms Browne 🤣. I read it as how AL often craves that womanly attention/chase that she sometimes would grab for the "low hanging fruit" just to satisfy that lacking part of her life.
Well, this is how she put it: July 12 1923 Halifax: “Could not sleep last night.Dozing, hot & disturbed … a violent longing for a female companion came over me. Never remember feeling it so painfully before … It was absolute pain to me.” It’s a bit more than low hanging fruit. Although yeah, Ms Browne was hanging low in more than one way.
Mariana did know all along about all the dalliances. As long as Anne reassured her that she really loved only her, she wasn’t bothered (well she was) and besides what could she do about it. Also, I think she had a full blown affair with Mrs Milne but I’m not sure.
Well, these omitted "shocking things" are exactly the reason I haven't yet watched season 2 of Gentleman Jack. I came late to Gentleman Jack, hearing of and seeing the show for the first time in the fall of last year. I was enthralled with season 1; binge watched the entire season 3 times over a period of less than 3 months. But, each time I watched it, I found myself becoming more skeptical - outright distrustful - of what was being told and how it was being told. Intuitively, things just weren’t lining up, so to speak. So, I decided to do my own research, and in that process discovered what my intuition was hinting at. I concluded that, for my tastes and expectations, Sally Wainwright was an unreliable storyteller with respect to Anne Lister. Though I fully allow for dramatic license, I felt too much license was taken - mostly in what was omitted. I expect a historical figure to be treated with historical accuracy, for the person's full character and motives to be revealed. It seemed to me that Sally focused on creating an idol and icon. With that focus she obviously wouldn't bother with details that would reveal her heroine to be less than admirable. Her story choices showed a certain lack of courage and respect for the audience. My basic demand is to respect me enough to tell me the whole truth - VD, gold digging and all! In a nutshell, I prefer character study to fairytale. I have heard or read Sally Wainwright say in a couple of interviews that there's so much to Lister, that Lister is so multifaceted and complex that no two readers would come away from her diaries with the same view of her, the same interpretation. But that is making my point. That's precisely why the facts as they existed need to be presented. Whether and to what extent Lister loved Walker is a matter of interpretation, but whether Lister had VD isn't, for example. Presenting the Snowden character as an abusive father and husband murdered by his son when the historical record says that is not at all true, isn't dramatic license, that's irresponsible (and frankly lazy, banal) writing. So, what am I really trying to say, and why am I saying it? I'm trying to make a point, oddly enough, about self-discovery and authenticity. Whether consciously or not, we all see and respond to life and others (fictional others or real others) through our own values and needs; that is in part what it means to be human. From the start, I viewed Anne Lister through Sally Wainwright’s eyes - Sally’s values and needs. Doing my research, I discovered that the historical Anne Lister does not reflect my core values. I discovered that I cannot be inspired (for long) by someone or something that does not reflect my core values. I discovered that I need (demand) truth. I discovered that as I grow into my "Self", there isn't a need for validation of that "Self". For my purposes, Sally Wainwright's rendering of the Anne Lister story - more accurately my subsequent skeptical response to it - has been a marker on the path to Self-discovery, though not necessarily for the reason and in the ways perhaps intended. I rest in the understanding that anything that leads to Self-knowledge is a good thing. Still, I think it's best, and I certainly prefer, when stories are told authentically. Thanks for "listening".
Hmm. Sounds like you were judging this as a documentary. And you clearly didn't take to AL. Many of your criticisms of the presentation of AL being too favourable were more explicitly shown in Season 2, which you do not want to watch. Your loss. This was a prime time TV dramatic love story / courtship (s1) followed by S2 covering the challenges of the relationship as a same-sex marriage. it was very much based on the AL diaries, covering (only) a 3 year period. That AL had sexual shenanigans with Mariana's sisters (and others) many years earlier, and the VD, was out of the timeline of the programme anyway. There is a subtle reference in s2 to the sisters, but you didn't watch. The programme had to (and did) appeal to a broad and international audience, without expecting them to do pre-watch research or homework, and it was made pretty clear that AL was a snob, with strong tory values, and very little empathy for the plight of others in the main. She followed the traditional approach of her times, in that money and status formed a component part of any 'marriage', and this was the initial driver for her courtship of AW as made very clear in episode 1. And the money becomes an issue in s2. Yes there were some elements not related to the main theme - Sowden pig murder, Eugenie pregnancy, but I assume these were to allow the audience some respite in between the strong intensity of the main characters story - its not a documentary. From what I have read, Sally W was pretty true to the diaries for the main story around AL and AW, although timelines and some supporting characters were fudged a bit. Sally rightly left out irrelevant details (eg the Charles Lawton relationship) which would only confuse. She added others to make it more relevant to modern viewers. The hilltop kiss for example. Complete fiction but much appreciated! In my opinion, Sally W managed to appeal to both the 'casual' Sunday night drama TV watcher, and the more intense and interested follower of AL and her diaries. Maybe watch s2?
@@asilver2889 I appreciate your taking the time to respond. My thoughts on your thoughts about my thoughts: 1. My loss: I hardly consider not watching a television program - no less a show that requires an 8-hour commitment of my life - a loss. The only loss would be if I failed to exercise my prerogatives and to set my priorities; and worse, if I allowed someone to choose them for me. 2. I never said that I do not want to watch season 2. I explicitly said ‘I have not yet watched’. 3. Dramatic love story / expecting a documentary: I watched season 1 - three times. I know what the show was. And, I know what it wasn't. The differences between documentary and drama are clear. More specifically, GJ is a docudrama based on the diaries of Anne Lister. There are similarities between the documentaries and docudrama. The docudrama should adhere to facts when the drama is based on the life of an actual person or persons. I made it clear in my comment that I prefer character studies to relationship drama (dramatic love story). That statement alone should have made it clear that I was not expecting a documentary. 4. Sally Wainwright's use of Lister's diaries: The fact that Sally Wainwright based Gentleman Jack on Lister's diaries does not mean she was one hundred percent faithful to those diaries. Dramatic license has its legitimate place. I have no way of knowing where she exercised creative license, unless I read those diaries; which frankly is just not going to happen. Any writer's (any person's) motives and passions will strongly influence their interpretation of Lister and what's in her diaries, even to the point of developing biases and blindspots. There can be no dispute that Sally Wainwright holds Lister in very high regard, and that she has held that regard for a very long time. I also think it is quite evident that Wainwright's high regard for Lister dominated her story choices and characterization. I subsequently lost respect for how, why and when Wainwright used her creative license in season 1, and so I lost enthusiasm for the show. I acknowledge that she wrote an entertaining show. After all, I watched it three times! 5. Events out of timeline: The choice of timeline was Sally's. That she chose to focus on this particular time of Lister's life itself indicates the kind of story she wanted to tell, and the impression of and feelings about Lister she wanted the audience to have: sympathetic, relatable lesbian looking for love; bold and brave; witty and charming; iconoclastic; highly intelligent; shrewed businesswoman, etc. All of this praises Lister's character, but does not fully reveal it. You say season 2 did a better job of revealing the darker traits of Anne Lister? Good that it happened. But why wait until season 2? 6. The subplots (Snowden, Eugenie): Subplots should be just as interesting as the main plot, and should carry the story forward. These subplots were boring and trite. It’s clear they were inserted to characterize Lister. However, I later discovered that the Snowden character existed, but the story told about him was a lie; that is quite different from dramatic license. I also later learned of Lister's poor treatment of others not of her class. This discovery made me strongly doubt Wainwright's kindly characterization of Lister's relationships with her servants. Simply put, Sally lost my trust. I think I addressed each of your criticisms of my experience of Gentleman Jack. If not, just know this: The simple fact is I do not like being misled, manipulated and deceived. I am willing to suspend disbelief in order to be entertained, but only to a point; particularly when the story is about an actual person. And certainly, to feel inspired by someone, my threshold is much higher. I adhere to the basic tenet, to each of us our own.
@@brittrugg2676 I repeat what I said to a silver: I hardly consider not watching a television program - no less a show that requires an 8-hour commitment of my life - a loss. The only loss would be if I failed to exercise my prerogatives and to set my own priorities; and worse, if I allowed someone to choose them for me.
And this is how we keep Gentleman Jack alive. ❤️
Still hoping Netflix will pick up Season 3 though. 😭
Yes, I think there will be people talking about AL for a very long time to come!
The Moss House by Clara Barley which focuses on the relationship between Anne Lister and Ann Walker from a contemporary standpoint did a great job of portraying Anne and Ann's highs and lows. It felt like a true relationship which burned bright at first then guttered out as the years went on. Plus at one point, Anne screams at Marian during a fight in reference to Ann Walker "She is my wife! She belongs to me!" and Marian leaves Shibden after that revelation. I hoped that would be shown at some point in the series.
The B B C made a film year's ago called the secret diaries of miss Anne Lister and it's still on UA-cam and DVD and was also filmed at shibden. That was more about relationships
That does sadly sound like something Anne Lister would say
I have the moss house as well where in the book, what page I seem to have miss it
The B B C made film year's ago called the secret diaries of miss Anne Lister and it was also filmed at shibden and it's still on UA-cam and DVD.that was more about relationships
Thank you for starting this series. I'm still miffed they canceled GJ. I need a fan-created Season 3!
Your description and acting out was simply great. Ann Lester is one to be remembered through times.
Wow thank you!
I think it’s very evident in S1 that Charles knows about Mariana and Anne when at the breakfast table Mariana is discussing AL’s latest letter and mentions taking AW to see Steph. He says something like “Is there no end to Miss Lister’s selflessness?” His attitude toward AL is very obvious to me. Though you’d think he might not mind their dalliance as it keeps his wife entertained while he seeks gratification elsewhere. I see her more as eye candy to flaunt in front of his older gentleman friends.
I had forgotten about that line in which case you are right, they did show his knowledge of the affair earlier, I just didn't catch it!
Anne Lister was amazing in so many ways but also self-absorbed, self-serving and a snob.
Very true
Omg! “Zeus of panty droppers” 🤣 Thank you for this.
Shibdin?
One of the best shows ever. I felt represented.
Have always enjoyed (& lol) with you on GJ reviews. Read the 'comparison of diaries' of Walker and Lister at InSearchofAnnWalker for the Christmas period of 1834. These are fantastic readings that expand on Whitbread et al quite a bit. Lister did sexually 'grubble' Mariana over that Christmas in 1834. She writes of how she herself kept her clothing on all night as she slept along fearing M would come in, so no skin to skin, but she did 'grubble' Mariana. It is also fun to read Walker's take on the same day. Talk about details, Lister kept track of their monthy periods as well. I find that authors tend to use excerpts only and not the entire entry. That's includes Liddington, as well, who always leans more toward coal, estates, and politcal doings.. thus the rather disappointing S2 taken too long in that direction, imo. An aside: I was surprised to read how Lister fondled Sophie Ferrall on that Copenhagen jaunt. )Knee-sitting and kissing) lol The diaries are great; autobiography at its finest. A&A were in love and moreso in 'caring' for each other. Both were CEOs of the time, powerful and wealthy. The daily meetings and letters were exhausting to me, No wonder they loved to get out of town to travel. Lister would have left Walker, thus the money, in many of her frustrating notations. Walker had her issues, too. (I think she self-medicated with booze based on her wine cellar etc) Lister was truly a lover of woman, so I get the sexual escapades of her early decades but she was tired (age 40) of the game when Walker appeared (again) front and center. I rec. reading the book by Lynn Pharaoh (she was a de-coder of the diaires) "Anne Lister, Ann Walker, and Me. She writes the truths of love and caring, etc. and uses excerpts as well from the diary. Also watch all vids of Packed With Potential and anything by Pat Esgate etc. I will miss seeing Suranne and Sophie - I need to let go of them (actors) and get back to the real A&A. Although, I will be there for any further seasons. Read free transcripts of Lister's diaries at westyorkshirearchiveservices in UK. They are in progress and up to around 1825 beginning at 1806. Fantastic to read.
YOU are absolutely hilarious! Literally laughing out-loud! I too have read several books and journal entries and you cited many details I have thought of too. Great video! Thanks so much....CG
Thanks for the props!
I knew abut the Belcombe sisters from the diaries and had a similar reaction to you--yowza, Lister had game!
The only other thing I will say is that apparently, Helena Whitbread said recently that the STI shared by Marianna, Charles and Anne was a yeast infection. However, given the difficulties in diagnosing disorders from 190 years ago, this is hardly a given.
Thank you for your fun and frank discussion of this topic! I admire your willingness to look at Anne Lister and her relationships, warts and all. I had fun.
Oh wow interesting I hadn't considered it was a yeast infection as the books refer to them as VD, also TIL men can get yeast infections!
@@AmandaCostner Right? Like I say, my comments were all in the spirit of sharing information, not correcting you. I loved your video and have subscribed!
but whether STI or yeast infection, the horror of medicating with mercury applied directly to the skin is nauseating!
Very cool. Very interesting. Keep it up
Literally, when I was watching the show I was like "so when are they gonna drop her sleeping with Marian's sisters"
Great fun as always, and intriguing. I knew the bit about the sisters from one of Sally Wainwrights interviews. Been holding off reading the diaries until the TV Series has truly ended. There may yet be a S3 if the fans have anything to do with it. Still hoping. Only time will tell. Looking forward to your videos though. :)
Super interesting stuff! I knew about the turmoil in their relationship but sleeping with Marianna's sisters. Damn, how did she have so much game?
She was Babe Ruth before the game had even been invented!!!!
Can't wait for more.
Hahah omg this is awesome and so funny, loved it
Thank you! 🙏
So excited for this! 🤩
Me too haha I’ve been all up in these books!
So morning routine here in Ireland, I get up, get coffee machine ready, feed the dog, make myself a green and peppermint tea and stick on UA-cam. Video of you and a guy reacting to Unnnnhhh on recommended. I watch, I laugh very loudly, waking the hubby upstairs. Then see your channel has lots of videos about the genius TV depiction of Anne Lister. Made by my absolute favourite TV drama writer, producer and director Sally Wainwright. Have you also seen Scott and Bailey, Happy Valley and Last Tango in Halifax? If not, I HIGHLY recommend. Happy Valley season 3 (and final season) should be out this autumn / fall or early next year. Lots of love from over here in Bangor Northern Ireland.
Hey thanks for the love!!!! I was picturing myself inside your world haha what a cinematic comment I love it! Haven’t checked out Happy Valley but I am happy to give it a look. I feel like it’s not the first time I’ve heard good things about it!
@@AmandaCostner You're more than welcome 🙂 Sarah Lancashire is phenomenal in HV. It's a tough watch in places, but so worth it! Enjoy! 💚🤍🧡🇮🇪
Omg! This was one of the funniest “Zeus of panty droppers” 🤣. Thank you for this.
Haha you’re welcome!
The fictional Sarah binns was in Anne's earlier life though. She mentions her during 1816. She hadn't met miss brown,mrs barlow, miss Pickford or vere yet.
Actually in that scene where Tib says she's on the sauce she also comments about how Lister did go through all of the sisters. Watch the scene again. If it's not the restaurant scene it's the scene with them at the museum.
I'll have to rewatch it thanks!
I think the enumeration of sisters was at the restaurant.
I realy apreciat your point of vew on AL, and it always cross my mind that we only have HER point of the things, I'm not taking anything aways of all the acomplishmant she did, just saying that for me i always left some room for some '' yes but...'' what was the other side of the story. I'll be so plz to read AW, specialy when they match date, to see how different of similar they see things. And about the Zeus part... most of the women at time didn't realy enjoyed having sex with their man, woman were cleary denied of having plesure, so when Anne offer them some of her talent they were surely pleased. ;-)
Sorry to bang on, so to speak, in the first series in the carriage Mariana does mention that she left Charles and Anne said it was too conspicuous, she’d just inherited Shibden.
Gentleman Jack creator had "juicy stuff" lined up for season 3
Sally Wainwright has teased what she had in mind for Gentleman Jack prior to its cancellation.
This was copied and pasted from the radio times today
The fact that Ann Walker was engaged to a young man who died 3 months before Ann got together with Anne doesn't come up.in the show, nor did we ever know if Ann told Anne about James coming with a proposal in mind. I am typing as you are talking and you just mentioned the nickname Adney. This name came from a bridge in Switzerland called Adney Bridge. Anne liked the bridge so well that she had the small bridge with the Roman arch in it that we see about "1000" times made. Apparently she liked the name too.
I do hope that some of the material you are giving will not turn off any person or studio or company who just might otherwise think about helping to fund another season. I just wrote a letter to the Chief Content Officer of HBO. I described her as a great role model. Many of your raunchy stories will only work against my depiction (not that I always liked her myself) if they watch this. I am assuming most of the letter/email/social media people who are begging for the return of the show cannot possibly find this all to be good selling points.
I think any interest in general is good for the fanbase and could possible lead to a studio deciding to pick it up or do a prequel or something. Although I imagine a big factor is how much money it costs to shoot at Shibdin etc.
@@AmandaCostner Thank you for the response.What I am most concerned with is that Americans tend to be more modest and standoffish (at least the ones who aren't playing war here). Where they might have tuned in for a romantic story, some probably were skittish or outright disgusted about what they saw, and
might have stopped watching,
especially if they are not in the lgbtq community, or aren't close to anyone in it. I am lesbian, so I have seen/heard the negative viewpoints. Ordinarily, I like your reviews very much.
Jamalyn
In the books, is it mention that Mariana and Ann Walker meet up?
Yes. Marianne comes to Shipden.
It is better to read the diaries of the real Anne Lister, it makes you see the series in a different way
I agree
If you need a Anne Lister scholar for a video, let me know!
I will thanks for offering! Every day I find out how much there is on the people in this world, it's crazy but awesome.
Can't forget how one day Anne was a try hard w a woman then the next entry she was talking mad trash about her and how it wasn't worth her time just to be AGAIN flirting a few entries later *cough cough* Ms Browne 🤣. I read it as how AL often craves that womanly attention/chase that she sometimes would grab for the "low hanging fruit" just to satisfy that lacking part of her life.
Well, this is how she put it: July 12 1923 Halifax: “Could not sleep last night.Dozing, hot & disturbed … a violent longing for a female companion came over me. Never remember feeling it so painfully before … It was absolute pain to me.” It’s a bit more than low hanging fruit. Although yeah, Ms Browne was hanging low in more than one way.
AMC should pick up GJ.
That would be amazing
Mariana did know all along about all the dalliances. As long as Anne reassured her that she really loved only her, she wasn’t bothered (well she was) and besides what could she do about it. Also, I think she had a full blown affair with Mrs Milne but I’m not sure.
Anne's affair with Mrs. Milne, Mariana's sister, was no more than a dalliance for both of them.
Well, these omitted "shocking things" are exactly the reason I haven't yet watched season 2 of Gentleman Jack.
I came late to Gentleman Jack, hearing of and seeing the show for the first time in the fall of last year. I was enthralled with season 1; binge watched the entire season 3 times over a period of less than 3 months. But, each time I watched it, I found myself becoming more skeptical - outright distrustful - of what was being told and how it was being told. Intuitively, things just weren’t lining up, so to speak. So, I decided to do my own research, and in that process discovered what my intuition was hinting at.
I concluded that, for my tastes and expectations, Sally Wainwright was an unreliable storyteller with respect to Anne Lister. Though I fully allow for dramatic license, I felt too much license was taken - mostly in what was omitted. I expect a historical figure to be treated with historical accuracy, for the person's full character and motives to be revealed. It seemed to me that Sally focused on creating an idol and icon. With that focus she obviously wouldn't bother with details that would reveal her heroine to be less than admirable. Her story choices showed a certain lack of courage and respect for the audience. My basic demand is to respect me enough to tell me the whole truth - VD, gold digging and all! In a nutshell, I prefer character study to fairytale.
I have heard or read Sally Wainwright say in a couple of interviews that there's so much to Lister, that Lister is so multifaceted and complex that no two readers would come away from her diaries with the same view of her, the same interpretation. But that is making my point. That's precisely why the facts as they existed need to be presented. Whether and to what extent Lister loved Walker is a matter of interpretation, but whether Lister had VD isn't, for example. Presenting the Snowden character as an abusive father and husband murdered by his son when the historical record says that is not at all true, isn't dramatic license, that's irresponsible (and frankly lazy, banal) writing.
So, what am I really trying to say, and why am I saying it? I'm trying to make a point, oddly enough, about self-discovery and authenticity. Whether consciously or not, we all see and respond to life and others (fictional others or real others) through our own values and needs; that is in part what it means to be human. From the start, I viewed Anne Lister through Sally Wainwright’s eyes - Sally’s values and needs. Doing my research, I discovered that the historical Anne Lister does not reflect my core values. I discovered that I cannot be inspired (for long) by someone or something that does not reflect my core values. I discovered that I need (demand) truth. I discovered that as I grow into my "Self", there isn't a need for validation of that "Self". For my purposes, Sally Wainwright's rendering of the Anne Lister story - more accurately my subsequent skeptical response to it - has been a marker on the path to Self-discovery, though not necessarily for the reason and in the ways perhaps intended. I rest in the understanding that anything that leads to Self-knowledge is a good thing. Still, I think it's best, and I certainly prefer, when stories are told authentically.
Thanks for "listening".
Hmm. Sounds like you were judging this as a documentary. And you clearly didn't take to AL. Many of your criticisms of the presentation of AL being too favourable were more explicitly shown in Season 2, which you do not want to watch. Your loss.
This was a prime time TV dramatic love story / courtship (s1) followed by S2 covering the challenges of the relationship as a same-sex marriage. it was very much based on the AL diaries, covering (only) a 3 year period. That AL had sexual shenanigans with Mariana's sisters (and others) many years earlier, and the VD, was out of the timeline of the programme anyway. There is a subtle reference in s2 to the sisters, but you didn't watch.
The programme had to (and did) appeal to a broad and international audience, without expecting them to do pre-watch research or homework, and it was made pretty clear that AL was a snob, with strong tory values, and very little empathy for the plight of others in the main. She followed the traditional approach of her times, in that money and status formed a component part of any 'marriage', and this was the initial driver for her courtship of AW as made very clear in episode 1. And the money becomes an issue in s2.
Yes there were some elements not related to the main theme - Sowden pig murder, Eugenie pregnancy, but I assume these were to allow the audience some respite in between the strong intensity of the main characters story - its not a documentary.
From what I have read, Sally W was pretty true to the diaries for the main story around AL and AW, although timelines and some supporting characters were fudged a bit. Sally rightly left out irrelevant details (eg the Charles Lawton relationship) which would only confuse. She added others to make it more relevant to modern viewers. The hilltop kiss for example. Complete fiction but much appreciated!
In my opinion, Sally W managed to appeal to both the 'casual' Sunday night drama TV watcher, and the more intense and interested follower of AL and her diaries.
Maybe watch s2?
@@asilver2889 I appreciate your taking the time to respond. My thoughts on your thoughts about my thoughts:
1. My loss: I hardly consider not watching a television program - no less a show that requires an 8-hour commitment of my life - a loss. The only loss would be if I failed to exercise my prerogatives and to set my priorities; and worse, if I allowed someone to choose them for me.
2. I never said that I do not want to watch season 2. I explicitly said ‘I have not yet watched’.
3. Dramatic love story / expecting a documentary: I watched season 1 - three times. I know what the show was. And, I know what it wasn't. The differences between documentary and drama are clear. More specifically, GJ is a docudrama based on the diaries of Anne Lister. There are similarities between the documentaries and docudrama. The docudrama should adhere to facts when the drama is based on the life of an actual person or persons. I made it clear in my comment that I prefer character studies to relationship drama (dramatic love story). That statement alone should have made it clear that I was not expecting a documentary.
4. Sally Wainwright's use of Lister's diaries: The fact that Sally Wainwright based Gentleman Jack on Lister's diaries does not mean she was one hundred percent faithful to those diaries. Dramatic license has its legitimate place. I have no way of knowing where she exercised creative license, unless I read those diaries; which frankly is just not going to happen. Any writer's (any person's) motives and passions will strongly influence their interpretation of Lister and what's in her diaries, even to the point of developing biases and blindspots. There can be no dispute that Sally Wainwright holds Lister in very high regard, and that she has held that regard for a very long time. I also think it is quite evident that Wainwright's high regard for Lister dominated her story choices and characterization. I subsequently lost respect for how, why and when Wainwright used her creative license in season 1, and so I lost enthusiasm for the show. I acknowledge that she wrote an entertaining show. After all, I watched it three times!
5. Events out of timeline: The choice of timeline was Sally's. That she chose to focus on this particular time of Lister's life itself indicates the kind of story she wanted to tell, and the impression of and feelings about Lister she wanted the audience to have: sympathetic, relatable lesbian looking for love; bold and brave; witty and charming; iconoclastic; highly intelligent; shrewed businesswoman, etc. All of this praises Lister's character, but does not fully reveal it. You say season 2 did a better job of revealing the darker traits of Anne Lister? Good that it happened. But why wait until season 2?
6. The subplots (Snowden, Eugenie): Subplots should be just as interesting as the main plot, and should carry the story forward. These subplots were boring and trite. It’s clear they were inserted to characterize Lister. However, I later discovered that the Snowden character existed, but the story told about him was a lie; that is quite different from dramatic license. I also later learned of Lister's poor treatment of others not of her class. This discovery made me strongly doubt Wainwright's kindly characterization of Lister's relationships with her servants. Simply put, Sally lost my trust.
I think I addressed each of your criticisms of my experience of Gentleman Jack. If not, just know this: The simple fact is I do not like being misled, manipulated and deceived. I am willing to suspend disbelief in order to be entertained, but only to a point; particularly when the story is about an actual person. And certainly, to feel inspired by someone, my threshold is much higher. I adhere to the basic tenet, to each of us our own.
Your loss
@@brittrugg2676 I repeat what I said to a silver: I hardly consider not watching a television program - no less a show that requires an 8-hour commitment of my life - a loss. The only loss would be if I failed to exercise my prerogatives and to set my own priorities; and worse, if I allowed someone to choose them for me.
Gentleman Jack is not a docudrama. It is a drama based on a real person.