For anyone who doesn't know: this is basically how most automatic car transmissions work. Sure, there are some dual clutch and eCVT hybrids that work differently, but most traditional "slushbox" autos use a hydraulic torque converter.
Right, and this is the same sort of principle that goes into fluid clutches, or more specifically, viscous differentials. The latter is how I wrapped my head around this tech.
Not quite. An automatic car has only one torque converter and a planetary gear box to provide different ratios. This Loco has three torque converters with different ratios. The DM3 diesel mechanical locomotive should be closest to a automatic car (motor -> torque converter/fluid clutch -> gear box -> wheels) only that the gear changes are done manually.
@@Ewiggrimmig He was talking specifically about the mechanics of the torque converter. Not the mechanics from the crankshaft -> wheels. No need to get overly specific when he wasn't even talking about that. He's right that the concept of the torque converter of the DH4 is exactly how they work in automotive torque converters.
@@Ewiggrimmig @TheTwoTwelve was just providing some general concept to create some basic association in people who are clueless. Not the complete thing.
@@Ewiggrimmig I probably could've been more precise. You are correct that automobiles with a torque converter almost always only have one to connect the gearbox to the wheels, but the point is that in both a traditional automobile and this particular locomotive the engine drives a hydraulic torque converter that drives the wheels.
just one titpick, the diesel name only references powered axles, as the future railbus will be named DM1P/DM1M (Diesel-Mechanical 1 powered axle Passenger/Mail)
Very cool video again, as always. I noticed 2 things in Your coupling habits, that I have learned differently in my time as a loco driver like 10 years ago. So my knowledge is a bit faded now but I think it still applies here: 1st: always couple the hook first, break lines afterwards. Because the hook is Your means to secure the cars. The lines do the opposite. And 2nd: never use the loco's coupling unless the car's is broken. Because repairing a loco is way more expensive than fixing a car. I hope that makes sense. TC & Thx 4 Your cool vids. :)
I've been actualy using car's couplers myself for lets say... "roleplay" reasons so it's great to hear that it is a actual practise. I've noticed tho that this game have a weard habbit of swiching them around sometimes for some reason while maintaining actual conection.
While hooking physical connection before the air lines simply makes more sense (from the roleplay standpoint), I don't think the game models which hook comes from where, and the coupling is treated as an independent thing. It's either on or off, there are no malfunctions. This is reinforced by the behavior @damianstalker4266 observed, where the game doesn't care about it either, and I'm absolutely sure they would give the car hooks a priority if it mattered.
Yep it's a separate feature in itself. Devs overhauled the suspension for all vehicles and this also prevents glitch derails due to contacts being rigidly simulated.
same, i hear it's a tank engine, so no tender and all the weight is kept on the drivers, but i'm sure it will be smaller, it's either an 060 or a 260. i already forget and i'm too lazy to check the discord rn. but, very exciteed, i'm just sad i'll be working the weeken of release so it will be the 3rd or 4th when i actually get to play with the new toys
@@ElderonAnalas Not what I was expecting but if it is a 060 I wont be disappointed and also I asked altfuture in one of thier teaser videos if the sh282 would have a working bell and they replied saying it would.
The torque converter also fills up when the throttle is up and empties when the throttle is down, so the "connecting" fluid is not uselessly sloshed around when idling
That's the one, I've been waiting for: the diesel hydraulic loco. This kind of transmission really fascinates me. The fact, that you can use oil to transmit the power and torque to get a train moving... It's just so cool. It does take a while though to understand the principle...😅 Now, onto the loco: I must say, the simulation is quite good. I know the reallife example of these locos all too well (german V90/V60 for the cab). I work for DB Cargo and I'm currently learning how to operate the V90. There are of course some differences: The most important beeing, that the diesel engine can indeed return to idle speed while the loco moves, because the torque converter can be filled and emptied with oil. Also, in reallife, these engines are not equipped with dynamic breaking. Though, in some situations, we wish they were.:) But, as I said, the simulation here already is quite good. Well done, developers, well done. Thank you so much for bringing our reallife workhorse into this game! And thank you, Squirrel for showing it off!:)
I wish they'd implement this filling and emptying of the converters for idle (as far as I can tell it does simulate this while power is applied), but I suppose that might take something away from the gameplay aspect...
Findest du gelungen? Ich muss sagen, alleine dass es hier drei Wandler sind, ist in meinen Augen sinnbefreit. Warum? Wir fahren doch auch 80 km/h mit unseren zwei Wandlern. Ich muss sagen, ich komme mit der echten V90 besser klar beim rangieren als mit der DH4 bei Derail Valley :D Gut, in Echt haben wir ja auch einen Fahrbremsschalter der mit einer Hand Bremse und Leistung macht, aber so Details triggern mich doch ein wenig... Edit: stell dir vor wir müssten in Echt ständig unsere Augen auf die Getriebeöltemperatur kleben. Ich würde keinen Zug mehr durch die ZBA ziehen können, weil ich nur da hin starren würde. Wofür gibt's denn den großen Lüfter vorne, wenn das bei Derail Valley einfach weggelassen wird? Grüße von einem Lrf aus Seelze.
The torque is higher when starting out because generally speaking Hydraulic fluid is non compressable. So the force or pressure of the fluid will be higher, therefore creating more torque exerted. As the wheel speed increases the pressure will drop in the hydraulic system as it takes less force to keep the wheel moving then to get it moving and then less torque is required.
DH4 requires a few additional licenses; I believe it is train length 1+2. So, it is a bit more expensive than DM3, which has no license-requirements. 30k for DM3 and 80k total for DH4.
Surprised they didn't model in that at idle it's still putting power to the wheels if only slightly. So if you backed off fully from the breaks it would roll in the direction you have selected if just a bit. (This doesn't factor in if the vehicle is heavy enough that the output provided at idle is enough to overcome the weight.)
That's the point, where the simulation is not entirely correct. The torque converter is not filled the entire time on reallife locos. When the loco is standing still, the converter is empty. When you operate the power handle, the converter is filled partially at first, then filled completely with fluid. However, depending on the position of the power handle, the speed of the diesel engine does not increase yet. For example: the german V100 has fifteen notches of power. In notches one and two, the converter is partially filled and the engine speed remains at idle. From notch three onwards, the converter is fully filled and the engine speed increases with each notch. The reallife counterpart of the loco in the game, which would be the german V90, is operated a little different, but the same principle applies. I hope, this was understandable. Understanding this kind of transmission is not very easy. It took me a while, too.:)
On real locos, the first position of the throttile lever is a "fill" position. In this position, the converter is filled with liquid and you should only apply acutal power after filling is done. On some locos there is a special light for this that indicates when the filling is done.
I love how the locomotive is modelled after the german V100 Diesel Hydraulic Locomotive which is one of my favourite locomotives of all time! Amazing Video, im really hyped for the Update!
@@rizalardiansyah4486 the V100 and the Baureihe 212 Are the same locomotive but different name, when the Deutsche Bundesbahn and the Deutsche Reichsbahn became one company, after the Berlin Wall has fallen, they renamed all locomotives.
Die 212 ist nicht nur die DR V100, sondern auch eine DB Maschine, die ehemalige V100.20, entwickelt als stärkere Variante der V100 für Hauptstreckenbetrieb...
Important to note, this loco is in theory compatible with DE2 through MU cable connection, possible to hook it up to DE2 and work with it. However this has a very different notch-torque mapping, in low notch almost no torque, you need to rev it up to work. Meanwhile DE2 needs to stay in low notch until amps go lower otherwise it overheats. Tried to take a 1000 ton 4 job consist from harbor to MF using a DH4 and a DE2 (was no other DH4 in the HB and I have no DE6 licence in the new game). No joy, stalled out on the first hill. Then gave it an other DE2, yet 2xDE2+DH4 (2x400+800=1600 ton rated) not able to move the train properly. The only way to move the train with 3 engines was to detach DH4 from the MU consist and control it separately using remote. I remember in Overhauled I did this trip, cca. 1000 ton train with 4xDE2, was just as painful as it is now :) (DE2 is not fit for road jobs...)
Yeah, I wouldn't think the DE2 and DE6 would be compatible with this locomotive at all, the power mapping is too different. The DE2 just overheats too much to use it with something other than a DE2 or the Slug (and even using it with the slug is barely adequate for OTR). The DE6 uses so much fuel that you're probably best off pairing it with the Slug for extra towing, or another DE6 if you absolutely need the speed. Two DH4s together would be a very powerful (and very fuel drinking) combination pre-DE6, though. I may have to try it for shits and giggles.
As a beginner, I had mastered both the DE2 and the DM3, but this beast gave me a hard time driving uphill under load, even though it's simpler to drive than the DM3. The tutorial confused me saying "up to 700 rpm" but now I know that you can push it hard to the limits as long as it does not overheat. Thank you so much for this lesson, now driving the DH4 has become a piece of cake.
I had no idea it was possible to have a dynamic brake on a diesel-hydraulic. Thanks for explaining that, so it sounds like it uses the "transmission" to turn the kinetic energy into heat, which is dissipated by the radiator fans. Very few diesel-hydraulic locos made it to North America, so it was always more of a novelty over here.
Looks cool, license is cheaper(30000 credits) than the dh4 license (50000 credits), it's cheaper to fix, and it pulls more than de2. One problem, the dm3 might be a nightmare to drive, as you have to manually shift gears using two shifters a, and b.high gear at low speed stalls the engine, low gear at high speed blows up the engine. Not to mention you can not run the dm3 as a multiple unit or drive it with remote control due to the manual transmission, and lack of dynamic braking, instead there's the engine brake, but the throttle must be disengaged (set to idle,) or else you'll blow the engine. Shift pattern as follows: 1a-1b>1a-2b>2a-1b>2a-2b>3a-1b>3a2b>3a-3b. It has no clutch, so before shifting disengage the throttle(set throttle to idle). It's more powerful than de2 but less powerful than dh4, de6, and the steam engine
I'd take dh4 over de6 any day. Clear view of the track and important dials like breaks are not way out of sight. A little disappointing the cab doesn't look like a German V100.
Torque converters are bloody clever, the secret is a stator disc that sits in between the turbine and the impeller. During stall ( the greatest difference in speed) the fluid coming out the turbine hits the stator, kinda creates a 'ground effect' kinda deal ( when helicopters/planes are close to the ground) then as the speeds start to match, the stator is 1 way clutched so it can start spinning with the fluid instead of sitting in the way
Oh my god i want this game! UA-cam randomly dropped me but i started to watch and now i'm thinking to buy it on Steam. Geez this is the best and most detailed train sim i ever seen. I played a lot with Dovetail's, and earlier MSTS and Trainz but this is something different. I keep watching all the related videos.
Woahhh love this one right away. Always thought the de6 is to big for me, this one looks phantastic mix from being more potent than the small ones but more handy than the big boy. What i dont like is that we dont have an engine oil and engine water temp, but i can still hope they will add some more stuff in the future (more brreakers, more gauges, more temps/mechanical gadgets to play with)
Great video, thanks a lot! Just the right amount of tech details for me to understand how this loco works, now I'm off to give her a spin on the tracks :)
the torque converter's impeller and turbine are shaped so that when there is an rpm difference the oil will flow in a circle, so the oil goes from the impeller spinning fast, hits the slow moving turbine, and loops itself back through the impeller to be sped up again. The higher the rpm difference, the faster the oil loops and the more "times" it multiplies the torque.
Well I think dh4 is like Siemens desiro dmu because when you throttle up the rpm goes to one value and then drops and continues like a automatic gearbox.
What im seeing is that what people are calling a "slushbox" is actually a fluid/hydraulic coupling (the fluid itself is the connection, rather than a clutch) What squirrel said about the DM3 was actually a MECHANICAL or clutch coupling Hence why hydraulic and mechanical respectively "Slushbox" is slang for "i don't want to use the proper definition for it, because i see it like this" because when a torque converter is low on fluid, it will feel like "slush" in a "box", hence "slushbox" Think of it like this A CV joint is "constant velocity" meaning that it throughout the joint, it stays at a constant rotational velocity, rather than a "universal" joint regardless of its angle A "universal" joint can be used in almost all applications, so its use is "universal" because it has an infinite range of angles that the joint itself can handle compared to how a "CV" joint needs certain criteria or space to slide that may not fit in the same area, for the same required stresses applied A "torque converter" takes the engine's "torque" and "converts" it to hydraulic movement, which "converts" it to mechanical movement on the other side Etc.
So think of a torque converter like 2 fans. Leave one off but turn on the other one and the fan that is off will start to spin a bit. Obviosly its a little more complicated but think that with some very thick fluid in there that moves a lot of mass. The spinning fan is the engine side and the fan thats off is the driven side (drives the vehicle)
There is a video on youtube explaining working od DH in detail (its just same but with visuals) its called "How diesel locomotive works part 2" or something
If dropping the throttle makes the difference negative and begins to slow the loco, what is best practice to maintain speed? keep the throttle engaged slightly?
Probably less than DE6 or SH282 but significantly more than DE2. I believe it's more suitable for heavy shunting and logistics, not much for heavy freight, especially on the incline. I could be wrong.
so you still start with the DE2 diesel-elec shunter but then you can move up to a DM3 then the DH4 and finally the massive DE6 interesting how we have the "endgame" diesel and "early game" diesel but both are D-E buit between the two we get a hymech and a classic diesel mechanical
I think this is done as a balancing mechanic in a very clever way. The starting loco is a DE, which is really simple to understand and operate for new players, with very little management involved. Next comes the DM3, catering to those wanting more power at a cheap cost, at the expense of having to be very careful with gearing and potentially other things, due to the nature of Diesel-Mechanical unit. Then there's the DH4, serving as a strong and fairly easy to use middle ground between the two DEs, with little management to do, albeit in a slightly different way, requiring some getting used to. Finally there's another DE unit, but this time the ease of use serves more as a reward for spending lots of money on the license, instead of making new players get adjusted to the game, on top of being very powerful and fast. It'll be interesting to see if they've changed the steam loco in any major way, then, of course, there is the SH060 which will be very interesting to see.
@@iar81c77 Fantastic overview, yes. It's a Pokemon game with locos. Each should feel authentic and have interesting mechanisms, and DE6 should be the big prize, but still feel specific so that it doesn't overshadow or replace everything else. That's partly why they removed the RC support, because people make it boring for themselves in the late game. The more you encourage people to mix and match, the better overall experience they get, and the happier they become with the purchase of the game because it actually feels and acts BETTER for them. That's the game designer's job.
As someone who earns his money by shunting with the "BR 294" und "BR 296" of the V90-Family at DB Cargo AG in Germany I was freakin' excited when I saw that a loco based on my work place comes to Derail Valley... But man this thing is nothing like the real loco. Yea it's diesel-hydraulic. But that's it. The controlls, the dumb "omg you have to watch out for oil temp" thing are big downers.
Thanks to the new "Simulation" update of "Derail Valley" we have a lot of more and more fun :) ! There is also a matter, that is present with all of the "fun" simulators. In real life, the temperature of the transmission fluid is very important but less important, than the engine coolant/oil temperature. In this simulation the "fun" factor i being aware, that something will break up eventually and our loco will blow up sky hi, so we won't be bored to death, as we must take care of running effort :) This is still great! SteamVR is waiting -.-
Yet another guide that leaves out essential information. what's the max load it can pull Squirrel? Might that not be important to know? All the loads in simulator have changed.
@@taliakuznetsova7092 my spec are and old Amd fx6300 6 core CPU (kinda bullshit cos its actually 3 physical cores and 3 virtual lol but this CPU is ridiculously durable and was second hand and its still going strong) I have 16GB of slow 1866 MHZ DDR3 ram my mother board is capped at that limit sadly. for a GPU i have Nvidia GTX 1050 TI 4gb card Derail runs well for me at 60 fps pretty much everywhere i get some dipps coming into some of the Oil industries when theres lots and lots cars and the most common thing i get is small stutters here and there. So my PC is 6 slot bread toaster with turbo hahahahaha lol i've usally put my money into spending time with friends and family but its about time i stopped being stingy and built a new rig. Ty for taking the time to reply it's reassuring.
A question or two.. 1/ have they changed the weights these engines can pull and what is the max each can do? 2/ Does the remote control work with this engine? Thanks
Some npcs, traffic, ability to get npcs as buddy in cab, ability to tell npcs what to do (changing tracks?) Some survival elements coffee water pub in city? Having an beer after an day at work, Ciggatertes maybe and food? More buildings , looks pretty empty at moment , I must admit it, this game it's best 👍 you really need to work, not like in other games where u put pantograph on reach 300 and that's all. And put some eastern European locomotive in 😂
Have they over done the bouncing around of the train now? That seemed to be bouncing around an awful lot and I fear I am not going to be able to play it as it will make me car sick. Another great video, you explain things so well!! Thank you looking forward to the update
@@adriankohnke9800Almost. It is based on the V60 and the V90, with the cab being pulled from the former and the rest of the loco from the latter. The V70 you mentioned does actually exist, but that one looks a bit different and it's also about a decade older than the V90. Only one V70 was ever built. However, it was still a milestone, because it was the first dieselhydraulic loco driven by cardan shafts insdead of coupling rods on the outside.
Can't speak to your second question, but as to your first the answer is "not very". When it's hot, ATF's gets to be almost like what diesel fuel is at room temperature.
@@milanstevic8424 My bad for not looking into this. Since trains use air suspension it all makes sense now. A slider for effect like in ATS or ETS would be nice.
I believe it's not just an effect, the suspension is physically simulated on the entire consist, as this also improves the rail-contact physics. In other words, this is more than just cosmetic feature, but there could be some settings, I can't confirm that.
Less than DE6 and SH282 but significantly more than DE2. It can probably accelerate better under a certain load and on flat ground. It is likely it will be the best choice for empty consists and heavy shunting, but not for long runs, heavy freight, or freight on the incline. It could be more suitable for winding rails due to higher acceleration, but that's my speculation.
its like an old automatic car.. they got torque converters to :) we germans love our diesel hydraulic lokos and trains.. or atleast i do :) diesel electric is rubish for me..
Where are the ingame engine books? I notice the licenses no longer tell you the haul rating of each engine anymore either. I remember the shunter *claimed* 400 tonnes (lol) and the 2-8-2 was rated for up to 1,000 tonnes but what about them all now?
About 200t for the DE-2, 600t for the DM-3, 800t for the DH4, 900t for the 2-8-2, 1200t for the DE-6 These are all pretty much at maximum performance, on perfectly dry rails
For anyone who doesn't know: this is basically how most automatic car transmissions work. Sure, there are some dual clutch and eCVT hybrids that work differently, but most traditional "slushbox" autos use a hydraulic torque converter.
Right, and this is the same sort of principle that goes into fluid clutches, or more specifically, viscous differentials. The latter is how I wrapped my head around this tech.
Not quite. An automatic car has only one torque converter and a planetary gear box to provide different ratios. This Loco has three torque converters with different ratios. The DM3 diesel mechanical locomotive should be closest to a automatic car (motor -> torque converter/fluid clutch -> gear box -> wheels) only that the gear changes are done manually.
@@Ewiggrimmig He was talking specifically about the mechanics of the torque converter. Not the mechanics from the crankshaft -> wheels. No need to get overly specific when he wasn't even talking about that. He's right that the concept of the torque converter of the DH4 is exactly how they work in automotive torque converters.
@@Ewiggrimmig @TheTwoTwelve was just providing some general concept to create some basic association in people who are clueless. Not the complete thing.
@@Ewiggrimmig I probably could've been more precise. You are correct that automobiles with a torque converter almost always only have one to connect the gearbox to the wheels, but the point is that in both a traditional automobile and this particular locomotive the engine drives a hydraulic torque converter that drives the wheels.
Namings in the game seems straightforward enough.
DE2 - Diesel-electric, 2 axles
DE6 - Diesel-electric, 6 axles
DH4 - Diesel-hydraulic, 4 axles
DM3 - Diesel-mechanic, 3 axles
And also:
SH282 - Steam, 2-8-2 wheel arrangement
@@pranavghantasala6808 SuperHeated 2-8-2
@@pranavghantasala6808 Dont forget the upcoming SH060 for wich we surprisingly dont have any footage.
just one titpick, the diesel name only references powered axles, as the future railbus will be named DM1P/DM1M (Diesel-Mechanical 1 powered axle Passenger/Mail)
@@MichaelDeSanta. SH stands for Steam Heavy the 282 and 060 have been renamed to the S282 and S060
Very cool video again, as always. I noticed 2 things in Your coupling habits, that I have learned differently in my time as a loco driver like 10 years ago. So my knowledge is a bit faded now but I think it still applies here: 1st: always couple the hook first, break lines afterwards. Because the hook is Your means to secure the cars. The lines do the opposite. And 2nd: never use the loco's coupling unless the car's is broken. Because repairing a loco is way more expensive than fixing a car. I hope that makes sense. TC & Thx 4 Your cool vids. :)
And never manually disconnect the airhoses unless you like getting thwacked in the nethers.
@@DecidelyUnethical There are safe ways and then there are those, You'll do only once. 😅
Technically you can do anything but always open the air line last. Shunter here :^)
I've been actualy using car's couplers myself for lets say... "roleplay" reasons so it's great to hear that it is a actual practise. I've noticed tho that this game have a weard habbit of swiching them around sometimes for some reason while maintaining actual conection.
While hooking physical connection before the air lines simply makes more sense (from the roleplay standpoint), I don't think the game models which hook comes from where, and the coupling is treated as an independent thing. It's either on or off, there are no malfunctions. This is reinforced by the behavior @damianstalker4266 observed, where the game doesn't care about it either, and I'm absolutely sure they would give the car hooks a priority if it mattered.
I love that suspension swaying, I can barely contain myself
Yep it's a separate feature in itself. Devs overhauled the suspension for all vehicles and this also prevents glitch derails due to contacts being rigidly simulated.
Very cool to play, as someone who drives the real Locomotive iRL (German V90 Family of Locomotive classes)
Finally seeing this locomotive in depth after all the teasers, wonder what the new steam locomotive is gonna look like.
same, i hear it's a tank engine, so no tender and all the weight is kept on the drivers, but i'm sure it will be smaller, it's either an 060 or a 260. i already forget and i'm too lazy to check the discord rn. but, very exciteed, i'm just sad i'll be working the weeken of release so it will be the 3rd or 4th when i actually get to play with the new toys
@@ElderonAnalas Not what I was expecting but if it is a 060 I wont be disappointed and also I asked altfuture in one of thier teaser videos if the sh282 would have a working bell and they replied saying it would.
The game currently lets you buy a license for an 0-6-0, but it haven't seen it yet
@@sasquatchhadarock968 road map / patch notes say it will come out in the following weeks
The torque converter also fills up when the throttle is up and empties when the throttle is down, so the "connecting" fluid is not uselessly sloshed around when idling
That's the one, I've been waiting for: the diesel hydraulic loco. This kind of transmission really fascinates me. The fact, that you can use oil to transmit the power and torque to get a train moving... It's just so cool. It does take a while though to understand the principle...😅
Now, onto the loco: I must say, the simulation is quite good. I know the reallife example of these locos all too well (german V90/V60 for the cab). I work for DB Cargo and I'm currently learning how to operate the V90.
There are of course some differences: The most important beeing, that the diesel engine can indeed return to idle speed while the loco moves, because the torque converter can be filled and emptied with oil. Also, in reallife, these engines are not equipped with dynamic breaking. Though, in some situations, we wish they were.:)
But, as I said, the simulation here already is quite good. Well done, developers, well done. Thank you so much for bringing our reallife workhorse into this game! And thank you, Squirrel for showing it off!:)
Hymeks, Warships & Westerns
I wish they'd implement this filling and emptying of the converters for idle (as far as I can tell it does simulate this while power is applied), but I suppose that might take something away from the gameplay aspect...
Findest du gelungen? Ich muss sagen, alleine dass es hier drei Wandler sind, ist in meinen Augen sinnbefreit. Warum? Wir fahren doch auch 80 km/h mit unseren zwei Wandlern. Ich muss sagen, ich komme mit der echten V90 besser klar beim rangieren als mit der DH4 bei Derail Valley :D Gut, in Echt haben wir ja auch einen Fahrbremsschalter der mit einer Hand Bremse und Leistung macht, aber so Details triggern mich doch ein wenig...
Edit: stell dir vor wir müssten in Echt ständig unsere Augen auf die Getriebeöltemperatur kleben. Ich würde keinen Zug mehr durch die ZBA ziehen können, weil ich nur da hin starren würde. Wofür gibt's denn den großen Lüfter vorne, wenn das bei Derail Valley einfach weggelassen wird?
Grüße von einem Lrf aus Seelze.
The torque is higher when starting out because generally speaking Hydraulic fluid is non compressable. So the force or pressure of the fluid will be higher, therefore creating more torque exerted. As the wheel speed increases the pressure will drop in the hydraulic system as it takes less force to keep the wheel moving then to get it moving and then less torque is required.
Now this locomotive have me pumped up. just waiting for the release!
DH4 requires a few additional licenses; I believe it is train length 1+2. So, it is a bit more expensive than DM3, which has no license-requirements. 30k for DM3 and 80k total for DH4.
Finally the new diesel!
So excited to watch
Surprised they didn't model in that at idle it's still putting power to the wheels if only slightly. So if you backed off fully from the breaks it would roll in the direction you have selected if just a bit. (This doesn't factor in if the vehicle is heavy enough that the output provided at idle is enough to overcome the weight.)
Depends on the vehicle i guess, the DH i have operated does not move when the engine is idling.
That's the point, where the simulation is not entirely correct. The torque converter is not filled the entire time on reallife locos. When the loco is standing still, the converter is empty. When you operate the power handle, the converter is filled partially at first, then filled completely with fluid. However, depending on the position of the power handle, the speed of the diesel engine does not increase yet.
For example: the german V100 has fifteen notches of power. In notches one and two, the converter is partially filled and the engine speed remains at idle. From notch three onwards, the converter is fully filled and the engine speed increases with each notch.
The reallife counterpart of the loco in the game, which would be the german V90, is operated a little different, but the same principle applies.
I hope, this was understandable. Understanding this kind of transmission is not very easy. It took me a while, too.:)
On real locos, the first position of the throttile lever is a "fill" position. In this position, the converter is filled with liquid and you should only apply acutal power after filling is done. On some locos there is a special light for this that indicates when the filling is done.
Finally we get to see a more in depth look at the interior! Crazy how much new stuff this update adds
Don't be shy to add a picture / schematic / diagram when you explain something like the torque converter.
Thank you Squirrel.
I love how the locomotive is modelled after the german V100 Diesel Hydraulic Locomotive which is one of my favourite locomotives of all time! Amazing Video, im really hyped for the Update!
I thought it was the DB 212. apparently they are quite similar it fooled me 😅
@@rizalardiansyah4486 the V100 and the Baureihe 212 Are the same locomotive but different name, when the Deutsche Bundesbahn and the Deutsche Reichsbahn became one company, after the Berlin Wall has fallen, they renamed all locomotives.
Die 212 ist nicht nur die DR V100, sondern auch eine DB Maschine, die ehemalige V100.20, entwickelt als stärkere Variante der V100 für Hauptstreckenbetrieb...
Looks more like V90 to me
@@tobifricke86 id say the V90 is much longer than this locomotive, the V100 has a shorter engine bay
FINALLY some good traction, Diesel Hydraulics are so fun to drive irl
Important to note, this loco is in theory compatible with DE2 through MU cable connection, possible to hook it up to DE2 and work with it. However this has a very different notch-torque mapping, in low notch almost no torque, you need to rev it up to work. Meanwhile DE2 needs to stay in low notch until amps go lower otherwise it overheats.
Tried to take a 1000 ton 4 job consist from harbor to MF using a DH4 and a DE2 (was no other DH4 in the HB and I have no DE6 licence in the new game). No joy, stalled out on the first hill. Then gave it an other DE2, yet 2xDE2+DH4 (2x400+800=1600 ton rated) not able to move the train properly. The only way to move the train with 3 engines was to detach DH4 from the MU consist and control it separately using remote. I remember in Overhauled I did this trip, cca. 1000 ton train with 4xDE2, was just as painful as it is now :) (DE2 is not fit for road jobs...)
Yeah, I wouldn't think the DE2 and DE6 would be compatible with this locomotive at all, the power mapping is too different. The DE2 just overheats too much to use it with something other than a DE2 or the Slug (and even using it with the slug is barely adequate for OTR). The DE6 uses so much fuel that you're probably best off pairing it with the Slug for extra towing, or another DE6 if you absolutely need the speed.
Two DH4s together would be a very powerful (and very fuel drinking) combination pre-DE6, though. I may have to try it for shits and giggles.
As a beginner, I had mastered both the DE2 and the DM3, but this beast gave me a hard time driving uphill under load, even though it's simpler to drive than the DM3. The tutorial confused me saying "up to 700 rpm" but now I know that you can push it hard to the limits as long as it does not overheat. Thank you so much for this lesson, now driving the DH4 has become a piece of cake.
i mean why would you not push anything to the limit as long as it does not overheat?
Looking fowards to commence training as the end of this month. Thanks so much for the explanations!
The DM3 and DH4 are great additions to derail valley
these updated was well worth the wait
I had no idea it was possible to have a dynamic brake on a diesel-hydraulic. Thanks for explaining that, so it sounds like it uses the "transmission" to turn the kinetic energy into heat, which is dissipated by the radiator fans. Very few diesel-hydraulic locos made it to North America, so it was always more of a novelty over here.
Excited to see the DM3, I love diesels with side rods!
Looks cool, license is cheaper(30000 credits) than the dh4 license (50000 credits), it's cheaper to fix, and it pulls more than de2. One problem, the dm3 might be a nightmare to drive, as you have to manually shift gears using two shifters a, and b.high gear at low speed stalls the engine, low gear at high speed blows up the engine. Not to mention you can not run the dm3 as a multiple unit or drive it with remote control due to the manual transmission, and lack of dynamic braking, instead there's the engine brake, but the throttle must be disengaged (set to idle,) or else you'll blow the engine. Shift pattern as follows: 1a-1b>1a-2b>2a-1b>2a-2b>3a-1b>3a2b>3a-3b. It has no clutch, so before shifting disengage the throttle(set throttle to idle). It's more powerful than de2 but less powerful than dh4, de6, and the steam engine
It feels like this is going to be my go to locomotive, just because I feel it's neat.
I’m so excited to start driving some new trains!
I'd take dh4 over de6 any day.
Clear view of the track and important dials like breaks are not way out of sight.
A little disappointing the cab doesn't look like a German V100.
It's a mix of a V90 Body and a V60 cab with a fictional, but slightly related to V90 interior....
@@FabiaLp I can see the inspiration from a V90 or V60.
@@0pteravolvo v90 volvo v60
Torque converters are bloody clever, the secret is a stator disc that sits in between the turbine and the impeller. During stall ( the greatest difference in speed) the fluid coming out the turbine hits the stator, kinda creates a 'ground effect' kinda deal ( when helicopters/planes are close to the ground) then as the speeds start to match, the stator is 1 way clutched so it can start spinning with the fluid instead of sitting in the way
Thank you for going over all this I had a know how of how to run the engine but its good to understand why it works
I really don't know how but I had figured out it works like that. In my head made sense. Thank you for the teaching!
Wow, perfect timing! Just finished your DE2 / DE6 video, went back to the UA-cam home page, and saw you had posted this video. Cheers!
DH4 has quickly become my favorite loco in Derail.
Great fun in VR. Looking forward to the new release. Thanks for the vid.
Oh my god i want this game! UA-cam randomly dropped me but i started to watch and now i'm thinking to buy it on Steam. Geez this is the best and most detailed train sim i ever seen. I played a lot with Dovetail's, and earlier MSTS and Trainz but this is something different. I keep watching all the related videos.
My new favourite machine I think … looking forward to it. Thanks much, awesome as usual!! Hope it’s just another shunter and copay is still $100.
Woahhh love this one right away. Always thought the de6 is to big for me, this one looks phantastic mix from being more potent than the small ones but more handy than the big boy. What i dont like is that we dont have an engine oil and engine water temp, but i can still hope they will add some more stuff in the future (more brreakers, more gauges, more temps/mechanical gadgets to play with)
Thanks for doing all these videos they're very informative and I'm looking forward to this update!
6:55
"Hows this engine work?"
"Don't worry about it."
Great video, thanks a lot! Just the right amount of tech details for me to understand how this loco works, now I'm off to give her a spin on the tracks :)
the torque converter's impeller and turbine are shaped so that when there is an rpm difference the oil will flow in a circle, so the oil goes from the impeller spinning fast, hits the slow moving turbine, and loops itself back through the impeller to be sped up again. The higher the rpm difference, the faster the oil loops and the more "times" it multiplies the torque.
Thanks for a concise but comprehensive leeson on the DH4!
I find this one to be great when you just want kick back and enjoy the ride
Had no idea how to operate this loco and ended up with $30K worth of damage to the gearbox. Thanks for the guide, now I now what to look out for.
Well I think dh4 is like Siemens desiro dmu because when you throttle up the rpm goes to one value and then drops and continues like a automatic gearbox.
Thanks, can´t wait to the update. Thanks for the update. Nice Locomotive.
What im seeing is that what people are calling a "slushbox" is actually a fluid/hydraulic coupling (the fluid itself is the connection, rather than a clutch)
What squirrel said about the DM3 was actually a MECHANICAL or clutch coupling
Hence why hydraulic and mechanical respectively
"Slushbox" is slang for "i don't want to use the proper definition for it, because i see it like this" because when a torque converter is low on fluid, it will feel like "slush" in a "box", hence "slushbox"
Think of it like this
A CV joint is "constant velocity" meaning that it throughout the joint, it stays at a constant rotational velocity, rather than a "universal" joint regardless of its angle
A "universal" joint can be used in almost all applications, so its use is "universal" because it has an infinite range of angles that the joint itself can handle compared to how a "CV" joint needs certain criteria or space to slide that may not fit in the same area, for the same required stresses applied
A "torque converter" takes the engine's "torque" and "converts" it to hydraulic movement, which "converts" it to mechanical movement on the other side
Etc.
So think of a torque converter like 2 fans. Leave one off but turn on the other one and the fan that is off will start to spin a bit. Obviosly its a little more complicated but think that with some very thick fluid in there that moves a lot of mass. The spinning fan is the engine side and the fan thats off is the driven side (drives the vehicle)
This is my new favourite engine!
There is a video on youtube explaining working od DH in detail (its just same but with visuals) its called "How diesel locomotive works part 2" or something
If dropping the throttle makes the difference negative and begins to slow the loco, what is best practice to maintain speed? keep the throttle engaged slightly?
Nice run-through Squirrel.
I've been waiting for this update for years! Kinda sucks we aren't getting any new locations though.
The map is packed enough and big enough.
@@realcanadian67 I've been playing this game for almost five years. Yes, some new locations would be cool. Would it not?
@@DudeMandango no, I think the map is flushed out enough. All they need to add is passengers.
It'll come. You can't have it all guys. At least not at the same time. This was already an ungodly amount of good work.
@@realcanadian67 they still plan to add 4 cities and something like 25 towns...
Now it gets interesting. New Locomotives. XD Cant wait for the Other 2 new ones. And the Changes to the Steam trains in general.
My wait has ended now I’m happy
What is the pulling capacity for this loco?
Probably less than DE6 or SH282 but significantly more than DE2. I believe it's more suitable for heavy shunting and logistics, not much for heavy freight, especially on the incline. I could be wrong.
Gosh darn it. I'm hype for this game again... :D
Another fantastic video!
so you still start with the DE2 diesel-elec shunter but then you can move up to a DM3 then the DH4 and finally the massive DE6 interesting how we have the "endgame" diesel and "early game" diesel but both are D-E buit between the two we get a hymech and a classic diesel mechanical
I think this is done as a balancing mechanic in a very clever way.
The starting loco is a DE, which is really simple to understand and operate for new players, with very little management involved.
Next comes the DM3, catering to those wanting more power at a cheap cost, at the expense of having to be very careful with gearing and potentially other things, due to the nature of Diesel-Mechanical unit.
Then there's the DH4, serving as a strong and fairly easy to use middle ground between the two DEs, with little management to do, albeit in a slightly different way, requiring some getting used to.
Finally there's another DE unit, but this time the ease of use serves more as a reward for spending lots of money on the license, instead of making new players get adjusted to the game, on top of being very powerful and fast.
It'll be interesting to see if they've changed the steam loco in any major way, then, of course, there is the SH060 which will be very interesting to see.
@@iar81c77 Fantastic overview, yes. It's a Pokemon game with locos. Each should feel authentic and have interesting mechanisms, and DE6 should be the big prize, but still feel specific so that it doesn't overshadow or replace everything else. That's partly why they removed the RC support, because people make it boring for themselves in the late game. The more you encourage people to mix and match, the better overall experience they get, and the happier they become with the purchase of the game because it actually feels and acts BETTER for them. That's the game designer's job.
Ahhh can't wait!
As someone who earns his money by shunting with the "BR 294" und "BR 296" of the V90-Family at DB Cargo AG in Germany I was freakin' excited when I saw that a loco based on my work place comes to Derail Valley... But man this thing is nothing like the real loco. Yea it's diesel-hydraulic. But that's it. The controlls, the dumb "omg you have to watch out for oil temp" thing are big downers.
Thanks to the new "Simulation" update of "Derail Valley" we have a lot of more and more fun :) ! There is also a matter, that is present with all of the "fun" simulators. In real life, the temperature of the transmission fluid is very important but less important, than the engine coolant/oil temperature. In this simulation the "fun" factor i being aware, that something will break up eventually and our loco will blow up sky hi, so we won't be bored to death, as we must take care of running effort :) This is still great! SteamVR is waiting -.-
Squirrel end my suffering, IS THERE NEW STEAM ENGINES!!
read the update notes...
alrighty now I want to play this
Yet another guide that leaves out essential information. what's the max load it can pull Squirrel? Might that not be important to know? All the loads in simulator have changed.
Also, does the remote work for this loco?
yes
She's beautiful the DH4, can't wait for update even its going to melt my old gal of PC.
ye olde molten lady
I think it's pretty well optimized as i heard someone with a 1050 was running it pretty well.
@@taliakuznetsova7092 my spec are and old Amd fx6300 6 core CPU (kinda bullshit cos its actually 3 physical cores and 3 virtual lol but this CPU is ridiculously durable and was second hand and its still going strong)
I have 16GB of slow 1866 MHZ DDR3 ram my mother board is capped at that limit sadly.
for a GPU i have Nvidia GTX 1050 TI 4gb card
Derail runs well for me at 60 fps pretty much everywhere i get some dipps coming into some of the Oil industries when theres lots and lots cars and the most common thing i get is small stutters here and there.
So my PC is 6 slot bread toaster with turbo hahahahaha lol i've usally put my money into spending time with friends and family but its about time i stopped being stingy and built a new rig.
Ty for taking the time to reply it's reassuring.
Cant wait!
What's the weight limit on this loco? Seems quite powerful.
80 t
@@TheJaernvaeg, did you mean 800t?
@@sebastianstoica578 Very likely. It's certainly not 80t. 80t could be its weight though.
Better than DE 2 thats for sure.
@@milanstevic8424, its weight is 80t with a lenght of 13m. I just paused and zoomed.
A question or two.. 1/ have they changed the weights these engines can pull and what is the max each can do? 2/ Does the remote control work with this engine? Thanks
2/ yes its gonna work with a remote
can't wait new meta quest 3 since I sold the 2 long time ago to play this again
Some npcs, traffic, ability to get npcs as buddy in cab, ability to tell npcs what to do (changing tracks?) Some survival elements coffee water pub in city? Having an beer after an day at work, Ciggatertes maybe and food? More buildings , looks pretty empty at moment , I must admit it, this game it's best 👍 you really need to work, not like in other games where u put pantograph on reach 300 and that's all. And put some eastern European locomotive in 😂
Hey squirrel love your vids especially your uts2 vids id love you played it again❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️💯💯💯💯💯💯💯
Have they over done the bouncing around of the train now? That seemed to be bouncing around an awful lot and I fear I am not going to be able to play it as it will make me car sick. Another great video, you explain things so well!! Thank you looking forward to the update
Real trains away quite a lot
It's a hydraulic, which means it has a camshaft that breaks on occasion
this has a lot of simelarities of the V60 and BR290 from the DB
More like the V100 (Br212)
It's finally happening guys! STAY CALM!
Good Stuff ❤
what is this loco based on? is it the german v 100?
Love your videos squirrel.
It looks like a mix of a V60 and a V70 loco
@@adriankohnke9800Almost. It is based on the V60 and the V90, with the cab being pulled from the former and the rest of the loco from the latter.
The V70 you mentioned does actually exist, but that one looks a bit different and it's also about a decade older than the V90. Only one V70 was ever built. However, it was still a milestone, because it was the first dieselhydraulic loco driven by cardan shafts insdead of coupling rods on the outside.
Chassis V100, bogies V90, Cab V60.
By weight and tractive effort by clearly a V90.
Jesus I forgot about the V90 😂😂
How viscus does the fluid need to be? And how far away is the input impeller to the output turbine?
Can't speak to your second question, but as to your first the answer is "not very". When it's hot, ATF's gets to be almost like what diesel fuel is at room temperature.
I hope there is a way to turn down the bobble head action.
Probably is. Btw it's not a bobble head, it's the lack of it. What you're seeing is the loco swaying due to suspension.
@@milanstevic8424 My bad for not looking into this. Since trains use air suspension it all makes sense now. A slider for effect like in ATS or ETS would be nice.
I believe it's not just an effect, the suspension is physically simulated on the entire consist, as this also improves the rail-contact physics. In other words, this is more than just cosmetic feature, but there could be some settings, I can't confirm that.
Will you be making a video about the SH282 as well?
does anyone know roughly how much this will be able to pull
Less than DE6 and SH282 but significantly more than DE2. It can probably accelerate better under a certain load and on flat ground.
It is likely it will be the best choice for empty consists and heavy shunting, but not for long runs, heavy freight, or freight on the incline.
It could be more suitable for winding rails due to higher acceleration, but that's my speculation.
You really make me want to buy this game but I can't afford it 😢
its like an old automatic car.. they got torque converters to :)
we germans love our diesel hydraulic lokos and trains.. or atleast i do :)
diesel electric is rubish for me..
Where are the ingame engine books? I notice the licenses no longer tell you the haul rating of each engine anymore either. I remember the shunter *claimed* 400 tonnes (lol) and the 2-8-2 was rated for up to 1,000 tonnes but what about them all now?
About 200t for the DE-2, 600t for the DM-3, 800t for the DH4, 900t for the 2-8-2, 1200t for the DE-6
These are all pretty much at maximum performance, on perfectly dry rails
@squirrel How do we find out the pulling weight capability of the new and existing locos?
Interesting, a blue lamp on the RPM gauge (who knows what that's for) but no lights for the actual gauges....
Were you attached to that load of cranes when you showed the temp? Thing took off instantly under heavy load.
10:15 you clever bastard
anyone noticed, that its basicly an BR 100 from Germany? at least optical.
You mean V100 or Br 212 😅
DH4 is the engine you need to really start making money. Preferably 2 of them for back to back operation, only using both when nessicary
Heaven above does this engine make a bunch of racket for the work out does
What kind of load limit are you looking at as compared to the DE6? I'm assuming it will be in between both the DE2, DM3, and the DE6?
What about the ratings in terms of load capacity? in tonnes?
This is a DB V90
Friend pointed out it looks like the loco is "swimming" too much. Is that much suspension swaying normal?
Nice
3 days till simulator!
It looks like the german DB BR 211 or something, is that loco it?