What are your thoughts on how the other CW Arrowverse DC shows (NOT including STARGIRL) need to step up? *Links to my Discord server & Social below.. Follow me!* My Discord server: discord.gg/Ur2Sqyr Twitter - twitter.com/BobaTalks Facebook - facebook.com/BobaTalks NEW Merch HATS here!! teespring.com/stores/bobamerch Patreon helps support the channel where you can get exclusive rewards in return: www.patreon.com/BobaTalks
I feel like once Stephen Amell left the dynamic changed from cool to goofy doesn’t make any sense and is ruining the purpose of good TV but that’s my opinion but I can’t say much about the lack of character development in legends supergirl and season 5-7 of the flash
I feel like they’re fine but not legendary like they used to be, since I got a vpn I binged them when they finished in the us and couldn’t be bothered watching on British tv
I don't get what people's problem is with this. When two people become married, they become one unit. Barry and Iris are the Flash because she fully supports him and she is a part of him. When Iris told Barry that, she wasn't trying to be arrogant or egotistical. She was trying to let him know that she has his back. Iris jumped off a building for Barry; if that's not love, I don't know what is.
@@misspriss2482 when people think of “The Flash” tv show they’re not thinking of “The Flash and the love of his life and friends”. most people who click on the show come to watch THE Flash. that’s why s1 and s2 are so highly rated. it’s bc Barry was THE main character everyone else was his SUPPORTING cast. the supporting cast should not get nearly as much screen time as the fucking main character. iris honestly was good in s1 and s2 bc she was a SUPPORTING character. now today she’s a main character who gets jus as much screen time as barry
@@gagalover2k10 I wasn’t digging in at you, it just sounded ridiculous - BUT I looked it up and you’re 100% right. Sounds like they could see she was going to turn the show into another Batwoman/Supergirl and fired her ass 😂
Superman and Lois actually has heart, ambition, and actual effort put into it. The characters are written amazingly. The villains are 3 dimensional and are actually fleshed out, instead of being the same for years without progression. The choreography is amazing, and feels like a DC show. Not a fan fic created by a moody, teen heart throb.
Now this is here has answered the question why superman and Lois is better rather than dwell into comparing it with other shows. Thank you for focusing on the show itself and what makes it good
Am I the only one who doesn't want S&L and Stargirl to crossover with the greater Arrowverse? If anything, I'd rather they themselves crossover. The quality of both shows doesn't match the other shows, both in writing, directing, acting, special effects, and production design. They are both FAR SUPERIOR
Same they shouldn't crossover with the rest, I really don't want to see Superman being turned into a punching bag to make others look better...again, and whatever they would do to characters from Stargirl
@@RaRmAn They should make them canon in the dceu especially that the rock is getting the justice society in black Adam movie and the flash movie will gonna reboot the dceu and also we might have a chance to see a new justice league universe starting with Robert pattinson's batman and Tyler Hoechlin's superman maybe they would get back George Miller in the director chair to direct a soft reboot justice league movie continuing what was left in the snyder cut, but with new cast except some actors and actresses I wanted them to stay like Jason momoa and Zachary levi they were the best thing in the dceu the rest could be changed.
Couldn't agree more. Story writing, filming, effects, even the acting quality of Superman & Lois is somehow many levels above the other CW Arrow verse shows. Instead of dragging along, they should just killed the other old shows and focus on starting some newer ones, and learn how to make it from Superman & Lois. I just hope they don't destroy StartGirl now
What's interesting is that this showrunner was a co showrunner for Flash seasons 2 and 3, and was a sole showrunner for seasons 4 and 5. This makes me think that perhaps it has nothing to do with showrunners or writers. It's perhaps CW not allowing creative freedom for the sake of extending episodes and pushing endless melodrama. You see the same thing with Erik Oleson. He was a writer and producer for Arrow season 3. He then left and became a showrunner for Daredevil season 3, which was arguably the best season.
@@brucesnow7125 That's even more confusing; Doesn't make sense why they are letting good shows drag into downward spiral. I will never understand how minds of Network executives work. Have seen many good shows destroyed in the past by such idiots
@@naeemahmad03 they are catering to their audience who are just there to turn off their brains and watch some melodrama with superhero stuff being a backdrop. Believe it or not, we are just the minority. This strategy of forcing endless manufactured soap opera conflict is clearly getting them views, that's why they keep finding money to renew the shows.
Yeah, they have shown that filler is a BS concept wasting people's time and a sub for good writing which can happen *amongst* the season arc and all the action packed stuff.
The 20+ episode format needs to die for this reason. We're in the Golden Age of TV where people can't wait for a new season to start even though it might just have 10-15 episodes in the season (IE The Boys, The Expanse, etc). The 20+ episode format is really outdated.
1. Writing 2. They care about how character's are written. The villains have motivation behind thier actions. 3. They respect thier audience and these character's. 4. Character's are constantly evolving. 5. They have an well thought out story arch.
6: Budget, there's scenes in the Arrowverse have CGI worse than a PS2 Game lol It's like they used a free special effects app lol I bet Per Season Superman and Lois probably has a lower budget after all they don't have like dozens of characters were supposed to care about I stopped watching The Flash but they have like 8 people with powers on Team Flash now not including Barry, it would be 9 if Cisco didn't leave even Iris has powers now 🤦♂️ maybe it's 9-10 idk since they even have the Speedforce helping the team now lol oh and that doesn't include Wally West who should be on the team but never is on the show I would prefer 10 quality Flash episodes over 23 episodes of 💩
Writing? If they cared about how the characters are written and respected them then why did they have Superman try to kill John? Seemingly deliberately and coldly with how he slowly walked up to him. Also as far as writing goes, how about everyone overlooking John's acts of terrorism and attempted murder and death he's caused by letting him free and treating him like a comfortable guest simply because "We could use an ally in the war"? Like he can't be of assistance from a cell and only let out for emergencies if need be?(if it's even necessary to let him free) Letting him free without even at least a trial or something or any type of parole or programs or systems in place to keep him in check. One example that new armor he wears now oughta have a remote or something to deactivate it with General Lane(or someone under him) having access to it.
@@two4328 yep maybe more if my maths is correct ua-cam.com/video/lVX2pjVv2kg/v-deo.html Than there's Cisco who's no longer apart of the team Caitlin who's Killer Frost, the Black Guy on the computers who has some Nuclear Powers than there's that girl who I forgot who doesn't casual and has some powers than there's Joe's Wife who can read mind, I'm sure I probably missed something 🤣🤦♂️ and Wally is supposed to be apart of the Team but never is and they'll be another if Ralph Dibney didn't get cancelled lol
Short answer: Because it just is Long answer: Better writing/dialogue, diverse cast of likeable characters, better effects, better costumes, Better character development, no dragging the story for 26 episodes, addressing real world issues in a non polarizing way, I could literally go on.
@@harrambou9468 I mean the show does address the inherent hypocrisy that a billionaire business man could "save" a small struggling town by bringing more jobs even though people like that create the problems that cause those same towns to struggle. Even though they could theoretically bring more jobs those workers would just be exploited by the businesses that are supposed to be saving them. It definitely is a real world issue that the show addresses
@Theatricult I mean the show also shows the people behind those billionaires and makes the effort to show that people who buy into those kinds of promises are also victims of the people who exploit them so personally I think it’s doing a good job of addressing it in the context of the show but if you don’t I can understand that
@Theatricult I think the way the show portrays it is done well bc like you said it’s not really telling you how to feel about it. I think it was def on purpose to have it like that
The special effects are top notch, you can invest in all the characters, each character has their own personal journey, they matter, you have one continuous storyline and lessening the episode order from 22 to 15 is much better and other Arrowverse shows need to follow Superman & Lois format. I am quite surprised that Helbing who botched The Flash season 5 is the showrunner for Superman & Lois and didn't put the same amount of effort on the Flash like he is doing now with Superman & Lois.
That's the thing though, there were still some great moments in Season 5 of The Flash, there were huge problems, the least of which was the fact that it was massively drawn out in story and scope - but in between there were glimmers of really nice character moments.
@@PetrosofSparta The worst thing about Season 5 was that we all knew where it was going before it started. In several of the trailers we hear Barry say that Nora 'could Marty McFly herself out of existence'. From that point on the destination was all but certain and, for me, most of the season felt rather pointless. There were good bits in it but it just felt a bit 'meh' to me.
its not mind-boggling. Its simple fact Superman lois writers have experience and they know what the major audience wants. Unlike the flash, batwoman, canaries , superman and lois dont care about forced women power, corny and stupid comic book stories or forced diversity. They focus on good writing thats reflected in real society. Also short episodes helps a lot.
I love Superman and Lois because it’s doing everything I ever wanted especially with the Superman family which I am so happy it’s doing everything great 😊 especially as a huge fan of the Superman family from rebirth comics I am so happy this show is awesome, also the writing for this show is fantastic and far superior then the other arrowverse shows we gotten over the years which makes me so happy.
They really DO need to make The Flash season eight more like season one or Superman and Lois. Superman and Lois also feels out of the Arrowverse and maybe that's a good thing.
The problem with many super hero shows like the Flash is that the first season really builds up the tension between certain characters, establishing a conflict that we invest in. For whatever reason, the writers and/or executives confuse that investment in the conflict with investment in the antagonist. So they bring the antagonist back as a good guy without having foreshadowed any sort of redemption for the character in the original conflict, completely cheapening this investment that we've made in the conflict. Once that trust is broken, it's hard to keep investing in further conflicts. The Flash did this with Dr. Wells, Heroes did this with Sylar, and Arrow did it with Malcolm Merlyn. Writers can't seem to get it through their heads that it's OK to just let bad guys be bad guys, and it's OK to let them remain defeated. I'd much rather have fond memories of a conflict that ended at the peak of its tension than tainted memories of a conflict that was made irrelevant by an unnecessary redemption arc. Superman & Lois hasn't been around long enough to fall into this trap, but the writers so far seem competent, so I have high hopes. Smallville was compelling for many years before they ruined it by having Lex Luthor go from a sympathetic and conflicted young man to a creepy pedophile in just a couple of episodes. His transition from good guy to bad guy was too clumsy to be credible. Like early Smallville, Lois & Clark is doing a much better job of setting Morgan Edge up to go either way. I'm kind of rooting for him to be redeemed right now. We'll see if they can keep it up.
When people hide behind the pandemic as an excuse a season may not be as strong... it's so easy to counter. Superman and Lois also filmed in the midst of the Pandemic and still have a generally strong season. If anything due to the pandemic, some shows had LONGER time to plan ahead before filming than the typical schedule before the pandemic... so yeah, not buying it.
@@theflashdcuniverse Hi Barry, yes I rememmber you as well. If you have that insider knowledge that's cool, but imo it still doesn't help that even before COVID, I felt the show has been really tanking in quality, covid aside. But that's of course mine, and probably a few others opinions.
@@theflashdcuniverse If you've watched both The Flash and Superman & Lois this season, the main problem is the writing. I've watched every episode of The Flash from season 1 and the writing quality started to go down in season 4 but accelerated in season 6 when Eric Wallace took over as showrunner.
It’s like saying the dog ate my homework. The dog ate all our homework, it’s barfing the screenplays up in the Indian Ocean right now and all of us are in the same dog-barf paper-soaked world in a dingy stay-at-home life raft, hunched under our desks and doing the best we can. A new disaster reveals the cracks that were hiding, it doesn’t create them. Don’t blame the winds of change for drawing attention to the man behind the curtain not knowing what he’s been doing for year
A lot of us are forgetting that this is just season 1 and some of us are comparing this season to the current seasons of other shows. In my opinion, this season is just as good as the first season of Arrow and the Flash. The first seasons to those CW shows were awesome. What I'm saying is that it's literally too early to compare an incomplete season to current seasons.
While I loved most season 1 Arrowverse shows, this one still stands out the most. I think Black Lightning also had a very strong first season and sadly it got worse each season. I really hope this show doesn't suffer the same fate. The same with Star Girl. I'm about to watch the first episode of season 2.
Shut up man am a big flash fan but am so sorry the quality of just the visual effects is as if we are watching a man of steel series . This hbomax series is clear of cw
Superman and Lois is also taking its time, filming for season 2 isn't supposed to start until September 13, which I would hope implies they are intending to increase the quality of an already amazing show
I think that by having a higher budget the vfx team are trying to do bigger things than what they can and it looks worse than in the first seasons that they played it safe with the vfx and the smaller budget
The only DC CW shows I still watch are Superman & Lois, Stargirl, and Batwoman. (I have a very love-hate relationship w/ Batwoman.) And besides those 3, the only show I'm looking forward to is Naomi. I just don't care about the Flash anymore and I was never a fan of Supergirl. Arrow was good, I loved Black Lighting but both have ended. And I can't remember one thing about Legends season 1. I have moved over to HBO and that's it. Doom Patrol, Harley Quinn, Titans, and Young Justice are just more of my level for me. I love quality, not quantity.
Unfortunately the production have been sub par for every Arrowverse series since first season to the point that they can't execute bigger plot points and have to find a low budget way around them. That's not the case with Superman & Lois. Bigger production delivers better options for storytelling.
Strong writing and acting and a real love and care for these characters without extra agendas always wins, people want a great story at the end of the day Superman and Lois delivers
It’s sad how the shows have fallen off a cliff in quality even with having to air the finale of last season in the beginning of season 7 . I would’ve thrown out filler episodes this season and added to the Godspeed arc in the later half of the season . I just don’t know why with Eric Wallace that this show has just plummeted in quality .
I think the first season argument doesn’t even hold up in this scenario because I rewatched the first seasons of the flash, and season 2 was just as good as season 1. And even season 3 was ok. But I think Superman and Lois just blows anything that the CW has done out of the water. (Maybe smallville was better but I never saw smallville.)
Superman and Lois is a breath of fresh air, the care towards story, character development as well as overall pacing, and focus is second to none. This series should be the start of a new DCTV universe, without connecting to the Arrowverse.
personally i love Legends of Tomorrow simply because it breaks from the 2 standard CW modes for superhero shows that they've had until Stargirl & Superman & Lois. The hopeful, light, good superhero show - The Flash/Supergirl & The dark, serious, broody superhero show - Arrow/Batwoman Legends may lack serious budget in seasons but the cast has fun with the stupidity of the writing and the writers are obviously having fun too. something you genuinely don't feel feel with other dctv shows on theCW. not to mention that the rep is good and not forced. they manage to juggle a pretty large cast it characters decently. all the heroes are B-D list but still are made to be awesome and the found family vibe just gets me every time. my only wish is they would take things more seriously time to time but when they take things too seriously it kills the show and people don't like it. so. im happy with my weirdos TO BE CLEAR THOUGH: i am bitter about how good the Superman show is vs Supergirl show because i am the CW ruined the potential of the Supergirl show and I'm gonna be bitter for the rest of my life the only way they can make it up is green lighting the Green Arrow and the Black Canary in the same quality as Superman & Lois God i wished the writing was better between for these shows
I tried so hard to get into Arrowverse via different shows, but I just can't. To me all their shows feel so "early 2000's" and a lot of them don't feel relatable or compelling. So when Superman & Lois got announced I was simply uninterested. However two days ago I got a bit drunk and decided to give Superman & Lois a try, now I'm hooked. You are right, Superman & Lois is surprisingly good.
I think the biggest difference between shows like Superman and Lois, Stargirl and The Flash is that you can tell that the showrunners of the first two shows genuinely care about their show while The Flash's Eric Wallace doesn't really.
Then explain how the show runner for super man and Lois is the same guy who ran season 3, 4, and 5 of the flash. The simple answer is that the other shows are comic booky and formulaic on purpose because that’s what the style of older arrowverse shows has always been. Stargirl and super man and Lois are different in both tone and style because WB/CW recognize that people are tired of the campy, exaggerated comic book storytelling that started the arrowverse
I don’t quite understand why The Flash started going down hill after the first few seasons. Who left, which writers changed? My opinion is that the CW started to add other superhero shows like supergirl / legends and money was spread too thin so The Flash and maybe Arrow had less investment. At the beginning The Flash had a lot more outdoor filming , looked more expensive to produce than the last few seasons. Who were the show runners/ writers of season 1,2,3? Did they leave / let go? What happened? Superman and Lois is just so entertaining, hope it continues to be serious and sometimes dark as well. It’s amazing !!!
With time the CW will just keep improving, Superman and Lois will always be my favorite CW show forever. I love your reviews and honest opinions on these amazing shows. Can’t wait for more from CW as well as you ❤️
Brilliant opener!! bzzzzt! ha ha ha!! I think you hit the nail on the head, I as you know AM one of the ones that still desperately wants to enjoy the Flash I've even said I'm going to give it a go next season, but getting two great new shows and keeping other shows running on the CW is a bit...... Nuts?! Todd Helbing's statement about the competition is exactly the mentality the CW Shows need! Superman & Lois and Stargirl are hopefully the benchmark for all future CW DC properties going forward. If it is, things will be good. Meanwhile (sigh!) I'm still going to hold out a little hope for my favorite speedster and tune in next season. Great video Boba! Much love your pal in the U.K.
I really much agree with you I’ve been watching Arrow, Flash since the beginning and I love those shows I grew up watching all these shows since the beginning but no doubt about most of these shows lost there magic especially The Flash and Arrow I feel like Flash really Peaked in the first two seasons similar to Arrow. Flash seasons 1&2 was peak Flash even tho people hated on season 3 and 4 I think it went down hill season 5 but near the end season 5 was getting good with the whole reverse Flash plot with Nora than season 6 started leading up to Crisis was amazing episodes but than after crisis season 6 was just mediocre and season 7 have been mediocre I mean the first couple episodes finishing the Mirror arc wasn’t too bad tbh really wasn’t but than I don’t know what happened the rest of the season. But Superman&Lois is an amazing amazing show it feels like movie I think this the best modern Superman this gets the Character of Superman and Lois and everyone in Superman’s world something that I don’t really think the movies have done. Superman is not someone with a god complex he’s a guy with powers who choose to do the right thing he didn’t feel like he had to over guilt or trauma but he chooses to do the right thing because it’s the right thing. That’s the main thing I think Superman&Lois just gets right and the writing in the show is way better than all the other Arrowverse shows.
At first Tyler’s Superman in supergirl I wasn’t feeling his role in it, until he had his own show mannn his Superman role grew on me I was impressed supes & Lois show tops all the DC shows
I will now only watch super man and Lois. I dropped legends of tomorrow when they killed off rip hunter. Oh I went back and watched arrow and flash season one. So much better then what we got now.
Legends has become more like doom patrol. Basically s2 was the last serious season and s3+ was more comedy and i kinda like that, they're just outcasts tryna save time so them being clowns kinda works.
The side characters too are much interesting too. Like Lois compared to Iris and what they contribute. I think The Flash started to decline was everyone started getting super powers.
I definitely agree about the more powers thing but there definitely is a lot more like having way to many main characters and having what's suppose to be the main character be a side one also how boring they are making it with a bunch of talk scenes and inspiration love/family stuff (don't forget talking down villians)
Iris is so pretty but is a wooden actress. They needed someone fun and funny with comedic timing for Barry. It’s that felicity thing again where they casted Lauren as the female lead but felicity had better chemistry. They should have kept it open ended. I don’t think the actress gets the iris character
It's definitely got a more mature feel about it to the other Arrowverse shows. Used to love the Flash and Arrow, but have been looking for a reason to ditch the Flash and then Bart started singing in the finale....Aaaand the coffin was nailed! 🤣
Bart singing was actually one of the few highlights of a season that had (1) the fastest man alive "defeating" his enemies by giving them pep talks, (2) filler episodes in an already shortened schedule, and (3) unsympathetic side characters with boring storylines.
I agree with every word said in this video, I even posted on another video that when you watch Superman and Lois back to back with The Flash they feel like they were filmed in different eras in time, as of season 4 of the flash it feels like it was written and came out in the 90s when those comic films were very campy, very over the top acting like they were trying to sell toys to kids… whereas Superman and Lois feels like it was written during the comic book film boom from 2008 to the current where it’s very well written & it’s taken far more serious & is mostly written with mature audiences in mind.
I can't say enough how much I appreciate the cinematography and quality that we got with Superman & Lois. It felt like a miniseries quality than the usual CW produce, and I hope the studio don't drop the ball with the show in later seasons. It would sucked so much if it drop to The Flash season 7's level. And yes I agree, it's not just the budget, it's the writing that matters most. Flash Season 1 & 2, Arrow Season 1 & 2 were great even with lower budget.
Well said Boba. While I've been a CW DCTV Arrowverse fan since the beginning in 2012 and a WB/CW DCTV Fan since Smallville I do agree over time the other Arrowverse shows have gotten worse as the seasons have gone on. My favorite show Supergirl has gotten worse since Season 5 and The Flash has gotten worse since Season 4 plus Arrow got worse after season 2. Even Smallville got worse as the later seasons went on. Shows like my favorite Superman & Lois and Stargirl have been so good because the writing plus story and characters are great. The CW DC Arrowverse plus HBO Max DCTV shows new ones coming in after Superman & Lois and Stargirl need to change and match the quality and make them good. I'm still a fan of this Arrowverse universe but I think it's time for change bring in new characters in.
They've had some pandemic related shutdowns. Since an episode of S&L takes more time to produce (both shooting time and post-production) than other Arrowverse shows, such a shutdown can throw an already tight schedule way off. They're not taking breaks for vacation.
I gotta wait to see Supe and Louis in season 2 or 3 b/f saying its fully better than the other CW shows because TBF the majority of Arrowverse shows are good the first few seasons b/f falling to shit
I completely agree with your analysis. I LOVED the Flash and was genuinely excited for how it started. If we're being honest though...it is now like a daytime soap opera. Inversely, Superman and Louis is what I wish The Flash could be. During the first episode of S & L I couldn't help but verbalize how beautiful the shots were. They were intentional, creative, and very cinematic. S & L is just a solid show; hands down. At this point, I really only watch The Flash because I feel like I'm invested and have to see it through until its done. It's dying a slow death but I can't turn my head.
This show had good character development , 3 dimensional characters that even though they do wrong you still feel sympathy for them due to the amazing writing and the tone is more about family which makes the torentos proud.
I’ve never watched any CW show. I started watching Superman & Lois out of curiosity and absolutely love it. Videos like this and general talk around this show put me off the CW shows and going back to watch for continuity. Are they worth watching? I’ve seen some clips especially the most ‘’memed” clips, yes the worst clips and frankly the rest of CW shows look like crap.
The Flash season 1-3 were amazing (some wouldn't agree about season 3) but it wasn't that bad. Just to save yourself if you do watch it (which I think you should) by NOT GOING PAST SEASON 3
As much as we still love the Flash, I think we'd be fine if it ends next season. I think they'd have to cut down the episodes to 10 max, and 1.5x-2x the budget. Was hoping Legends would end this season, along with Supergirl.
S&L doesn't play like a typical CW show. Arrow had that feel for a while too and then... I personally enjoyed Black Lightening for similar reasons because of the topics they touched on. But definitely S&L plays more like a mini series than a TV show
I'm sorry but Superman and Lois is 100000x better than the flash and arrow combined 🙏🏾 real emotions great acting and plot! Well done to the CW for this one
Eric Wallace is theflash issue. He was part of season 4-5-6-7. S3 was not perfect but it was better then 4 and 5. Eric Wallace even dare to say side characters are more interresting than Barry. He said the interlude was to develop Allegra but it was a Ultraviolet arc more then anything else. I miss season 1 and 2 of the flash. I hope superman and lois will maintain the quality for a while.
Couldn't agree more. Unfortunately for some reason where I live it has not come out on Tv, but I make sure to watch as many clips on UA-cam as I can and your reviews
i think a line in the new 14th episode makes superman and lois elevates it so much above others. Jon argues with Clark about working with John Henry and learning from him to build weapons, Clark initially objects, Jon responds with how he can't have it both ways:he can't keep worrying about how Edge is a threat, how the boys will be able to handle him in case if he's not around, and also worry about Jon learning to build weapons. Clark's response? A sigh, and "Ok, you're making too much sense. Go, you can learn from him". This felt specifically a dig at other CW shows, mainly the flash, because this part alone would have been dragged out into an entire episode.
It’s the best DC TV/streaming iteration since Smallville. I just recently watch season 1 out of fear that it would miss the mark and make me cringe like the other Arrowverse shows, and boy was I gladly wrong. Great great show!!
Totally agree. S&L and Stargirl are as good as any of the Marvel and HBO Max superhero series. The other CW shows come across as Glee with capes and cowls. The shark has well and truly jumped on those shows.
Wish u pointed out the fact that "The Flash" has the same 5 actors every episode. While superman has so many good characters aside from himself. When the godspeeds were attacking the city for a couple episodes we really didn't see any harm being done to the city (or its non-existing ppl) the show only focuses on team flash being in the camera 24/7
Definitely agree. I instantly noticed a BIG upgrade in the shows production when I started watching Superman and Lois. I am a filmmaker myself and I got tired of the arrowverse's direction from a production perspective and the writing. After Arrow ended, I was kind of done with the CW until I watched Superman and Lois. These days I only watch Superman and Lois now, because it, Peacemaker and the Marvel Disney + shows have set the new standard
Bobatalk I totally agree with you mate I feel like the shows in arrowverse has become really silly and dumb especially in the recent episodes over the recent years but thing is I still watched them because I’m still interested in them but I grew tired of unwanted stuffs and plot twists now Superman and Lois that’s a different story it does remind me of earlier seasons like the flash and arrow that’s what I love about them
Superman and Lois didn't dumb Clark down in order to give his group a reason to be there. Clark is intelligent and doesn't have a group to lean on, he doesn't run (or fly) around, asking everyone what to do.
Superman and Stargirl are high quality all the way around. The only stars in the CW/DC franchises currently at this time. The Flash used to be like this and Supergirl too but sadly they are ending thier runs on a whimper. The other CW/DC shows should follow the same format and quality as Stargirl and Superman.
I love how you pointed out almost, if not all of the facts The Flash became my favorite tv show back when season 1 to 3 were coming out and starting from season 4, i tried to like it but couldn't. Arrow was also pretty good, I don't remember much of supergirl since I didn't really care about it, I just watched the show because it's part of the crossovers. Legends was best at season 2, mainly reverse flash. Black Lightning was ok, I guess. Superman and Lois easily goes into the top 10 DC tv shows. The best DC show, in my opinion, is Watchmen.
Two core reasons; 1) they understand the main characters perfectly, without trying to “improve upon them”, 2) the most important one in terms of enjoyment, NO FUCKING WOKENESS!
Although cheesy and inconsistent, the first season of The Flash showed some actual heart and ambition out into it and u can see it. My uncle (not rlly my uncle just a family friend) writes for The Flash and says he’s gotten tired of writing for The Flash but he doesn’t want to leave cuz of how long he has been there for The Flash
I can't argue one bit. Superman and Lois has noticably raised the bar. Part of what I think about it is that they got the experience now of what a lot of fans may be wanting. I can also see show makers being afraid of changing the formula of older shows. Even though the pace has been set on another one in the Arrowverse it is still working to a satisfactory extent. I also see the conecpt of keeping the show in some form of variety. In the semi early days of the arrow verse Arrow was the dark serious drama. The flash was the light family friendly one and legends was the comic relief. So now the flash is the light show while the others are turning into more dark drama Which seems to be the pace they are going for. A light Comedy would be nice. I also believe that Superman and Lois will keep quality through other seasons. Another show though Titans it was the first season that was shaky for me but I kept an eye on it and the next ones so far have gotten a little better. Batwoman is a problem for me though. I fell in love too much with Ruby Rose being batwoman. The dynamic worked so well for me, plus I'm not a big fan of shows that are blatenly social justicy which they are doing with the second season somewhat. That's also why I have a hard time watching Supergirl.
How can you compare a show in its 1st season to a show in its 7th season? Who knows, maybe S&L might end up like the Flash. Remember during its 1st season, when everyone said that Flash was the greatest superhero show on TV?
Remember though that this is only season 1, it could get as bad as the other shows. Even though I find it to be really good right now and I love it and it's best arrow-verse show right now. And also many other arrow-verse shows season 1's were pretty good as well, but went downhill afterwards.
The CGI in Superman and Lois is also better than all the other CW shows as you see the difference between the heat vision of kryptonites in S&L compared to the weird blue heat vision on Supergirl
i do agree, but remember, this is only season 1 so far, its perfect yes, but, the flash s1 and s2 were great and the later seasons declined in storylines, comic book accuracy, fights, drama, etc. So hopefully this show continues to be great.
Writers and producers of Flash and Batgirl should look at the work done by Superman and Lois and Stargirl which have great story writing, arching story lines, pacing, effects, cinema film making styles. Superman has some advantages as the family story lines are core to the storytelling and stakes are often high in episodes, as does the family elements of Stargirl. Stakes in Flash just don't seem as high anymore as they used to in some earlier seasons. Flash has had some stand out episodes in past seasons with some nice sci fi elements from time travel butterfly effects for example. Not so much elements of high jeopardy and suspense or mystery in its current season in my mind.
I really hope the Superman and Lois follows the same example of Lois and Clark the new adventures of superman. The 90s show was fantastic and I have really high hopes for superman for lois
we need the flash and other arrowverse shows to end and make them all make the justice league for a big budget justice league show. That way olivers and barrys kids and clarks kids in the future could be young justice and we won't need a arrow spinoff. I feel like it would fit the everyone on one earth thing alot more and superman and lois can continue with clark saying he is with family and only comes when something super big happens. A timeline change and we could get batman, if we get good writers we could get a good batman and then we have the founding members of the JL like gideon said. They could face powerful villains and fix characters like supergirl.
I am so HAPPY that people are giving this show a chance and realising how good it is! I love so much about it. Those beautiful scenery shots with the sunlight ?? c'mon. but also, I absolutely love Tyler Hoechlin as Clark Kent/ Superman. He has that nerdy, kind and wholesome badass good guy energy, you know? haha. I remember watching the first episode and falling in love with Superman within 15 minutes. That "thanks, my mom made it" ?? that's who Superman is!! Really really glad that WB has finally given us. good Superman that we can love.
Superman and Lois has that HBOMAX money that's why the production quality is so much better. HBOMAX is a game changer to the CW because they now can produce shows with the help of the streaming service. Expect to see the family friendly DC shows on the CW because is a way to make more money before the shows get to the streaming service and the more mature and R rated will be only available on HBOMAX. Batwoman got an HBOMAX deal to have the streaming rights but didn't get monetary help because the show came out before the streaming service was even available and was made with the same standards as the other DC CW shows. It's very clear they are trying to stay away from the Arrowverse because they want to improve the future of DC shows. But there's also the conflic that Netflix has a deal with most Arrowverse shows and that's why the studio doesn't care too much about the quality of those shows as long as they keep making money. The only way The Flash is going to end is until Grant Gusting decides to leave the show, just like Stephen Amell and Melissa Benoist decided not to continue anymore.
The villain of the week formula was a great thing for the Arrowverse to begin with. Gave time for character development and made their heroes look better for being able to stop threats. Having one villain that takes months to defeat makes the hero look incompetent unless they are showing they are capable of stopping threats it makes the hero look good and the villain even better. The problem comes from an insistence to tie it into the main plot as well. This used to work. The first two seasons of the flash did it perfectly and Arrow managed to really develop Oliver's character through it. The problem is they've run out of ways to justify it now that they are actively damaging the main villains so they can have them have henchmen for a few episodes. See it's all connected. Why do they work together. Who cares. It makes everything really boring. Also, they've ran out of interesting villains to be one off villains that the writers are willing to give away without being a main villain. Plus The characters have reached their end growth as a character so it's not developing them anymore. It is just filler. The formula that was the Arrowverse biggest strength is now holding it back.
Honestly when Superman and Lois was on right after the Flash, after watching the first five episodes of Superman and Lois I wanted the flash to be over already because I was waiting for Superman and Lois and I wasn't even excited about watching The Flash anymore especially after what I saw after episode 12.
Superman is an A list character tbh and like in this season you can feel they put so much time and effort into the story and everything that it makes you appreciate it more.
Definitely agree with a lot of what you were saying Boba. I always say that just because a show has bad or somewhat good cgi, that doesn't affect a show's quality, it's always mainly good acting and writing that affects it in a positive way. Without it, it just spirals downhill. And again, I always wonder that if S&L didn't get picked up by the CW, would that have changed the Arrowverse completely? As much as I am enjoying the other shows, just enjoying them along for the ride, S&L brings out more towards it's characters and actually make them matter and cared for while also telling a very good story as well. Idk how much longer the whole "season 1 good, seasons after bad" excuse or the covid excuse will last but they don't make up a show whether bad or good. Just hoping the other shows, hell even fans, actually see it that way too
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I feel like once Stephen Amell left the dynamic changed from cool to goofy doesn’t make any sense and is ruining the purpose of good TV but that’s my opinion but I can’t say much about the lack of character development in legends supergirl and season 5-7 of the flash
At this point I really just watch Titans or Superman and Lois
I feel like they’re fine but not legendary like they used to be, since I got a vpn I binged them when they finished in the us and couldn’t be bothered watching on British tv
“Stargirl aside” real talk 😂😂
@@fideldequeemani8375 ?
You don't hear lois tellin clarke "You're not superman, We're superman"
LOL
Next season Sarah’s probably gonna do so
I don't get what people's problem is with this. When two people become married, they become one unit. Barry and Iris are the Flash because she fully supports him and she is a part of him. When Iris told Barry that, she wasn't trying to be arrogant or egotistical. She was trying to let him know that she has his back. Iris jumped off a building for Barry; if that's not love, I don't know what is.
@@misspriss2482 when people think of “The Flash” tv show they’re not thinking of “The Flash and the love of his life and friends”. most people who click on the show come to watch THE Flash. that’s why s1 and s2 are so highly rated. it’s bc Barry was THE main character everyone else was his SUPPORTING cast. the supporting cast should not get nearly as much screen time as the fucking main character. iris honestly was good in s1 and s2 bc she was a SUPPORTING character. now today she’s a main character who gets jus as much screen time as barry
@@FirstNameLastName-bo4ny Corretion More time Than Barry Himself
This show just has better writing and treats it’s main characters respectfully by not having main characters have cameos on their own shows
And no woke bullshit. They even fired a sjw writer because she was being a pain in the neck trying to make Superman’s parents black.
@@gagalover2k10 she was what?? 😂😂
@@AS-ri1mb huh?
@@gagalover2k10 😂 i can see that happening for john henry irons but otherwise no.
@@gagalover2k10 I wasn’t digging in at you, it just sounded ridiculous - BUT I looked it up and you’re 100% right. Sounds like they could see she was going to turn the show into another Batwoman/Supergirl and fired her ass 😂
Superman and Lois actually has heart, ambition, and actual effort put into it. The characters are written amazingly. The villains are 3 dimensional and are actually fleshed out, instead of being the same for years without progression. The choreography is amazing, and feels like a DC show. Not a fan fic created by a moody, teen heart throb.
Now this is here has answered the question why superman and Lois is better rather than dwell into comparing it with other shows. Thank you for focusing on the show itself and what makes it good
Is it anything like the other CW shows cus if so then 🥶 i really wanna watch this tho you recommend it?
Am I the only one who doesn't want S&L and Stargirl to crossover with the greater Arrowverse? If anything, I'd rather they themselves crossover. The quality of both shows doesn't match the other shows, both in writing, directing, acting, special effects, and production design. They are both FAR SUPERIOR
I totally agree!
It would be so much cooler if The Flash went on one of these shows so that it can get some good writing and visuals for the first time in a while
Same they shouldn't crossover with the rest, I really don't want to see Superman being turned into a punching bag to make others look better...again, and whatever they would do to characters from Stargirl
@@RaRmAn They should make them canon in the dceu especially that the rock is getting the justice society in black Adam movie and the flash movie will gonna reboot the dceu and also we might have a chance to see a new justice league universe starting with Robert pattinson's batman and Tyler Hoechlin's superman maybe they would get back George Miller in the director chair to direct a soft reboot justice league movie continuing what was left in the snyder cut, but with new cast except some actors and actresses I wanted them to stay like Jason momoa and Zachary levi they were the best thing in the dceu the rest could be changed.
Yeah there is nothing I'm more worried about for those two shows than forced crossovers
Couldn't agree more.
Story writing, filming, effects, even the acting quality of Superman & Lois is somehow many levels above the other CW Arrow verse shows. Instead of dragging along, they should just killed the other old shows and focus on starting some newer ones, and learn how to make it from Superman & Lois. I just hope they don't destroy StartGirl now
fax
Or at least try to transition the other less successful shows into the style of Superman and Lois.
What's interesting is that this showrunner was a co showrunner for Flash seasons 2 and 3, and was a sole showrunner for seasons 4 and 5. This makes me think that perhaps it has nothing to do with showrunners or writers. It's perhaps CW not allowing creative freedom for the sake of extending episodes and pushing endless melodrama.
You see the same thing with Erik Oleson. He was a writer and producer for Arrow season 3. He then left and became a showrunner for Daredevil season 3, which was arguably the best season.
@@brucesnow7125 That's even more confusing; Doesn't make sense why they are letting good shows drag into downward spiral. I will never understand how minds of Network executives work. Have seen many good shows destroyed in the past by such idiots
@@naeemahmad03 they are catering to their audience who are just there to turn off their brains and watch some melodrama with superhero stuff being a backdrop. Believe it or not, we are just the minority. This strategy of forcing endless manufactured soap opera conflict is clearly getting them views, that's why they keep finding money to renew the shows.
Superman and Lois doesn’t have filler episodes. They focus on the main characters and their development, that’s the key to a great show
Yeah, they have shown that filler is a BS concept wasting people's time and a sub for good writing which can happen *amongst* the season arc and all the action packed stuff.
Kind of like Doom Patrol 👍
Yes with 16 episodes vs 24.
The 20+ episode format needs to die for this reason. We're in the Golden Age of TV where people can't wait for a new season to start even though it might just have 10-15 episodes in the season (IE The Boys, The Expanse, etc). The 20+ episode format is really outdated.
@@chaost4544 exactly!! Move towards quality not quantity. More money for better writers and VFX.
1. Writing 2. They care about how character's are written. The villains have motivation behind thier actions. 3. They respect thier audience and these character's. 4. Character's are constantly evolving. 5. They have an well thought out story arch.
6: Budget, there's scenes in the Arrowverse have CGI worse than a PS2 Game lol
It's like they used a free special effects app lol
I bet Per Season Superman and Lois probably has a lower budget after all they don't have like dozens of characters were supposed to care about
I stopped watching The Flash but they have like 8 people with powers on Team Flash now not including Barry, it would be 9 if Cisco didn't leave even Iris has powers now 🤦♂️ maybe it's 9-10 idk since they even have the Speedforce helping the team now lol oh and that doesn't include Wally West who should be on the team but never is on the show
I would prefer 10 quality Flash episodes over 23 episodes of 💩
I agree. The writing is excellent. Realistic characters and dialogue. The acting isn't bad either!
Writing? If they cared about how the characters are written and respected them then why did they have Superman try to kill John? Seemingly deliberately and coldly with how he slowly walked up to him.
Also as far as writing goes, how about everyone overlooking John's acts of terrorism and attempted murder and death he's caused by letting him free and treating him like a comfortable guest simply because "We could use an ally in the war"?
Like he can't be of assistance from a cell and only let out for emergencies if need be?(if it's even necessary to let him free)
Letting him free without even at least a trial or something or any type of parole or programs or systems in place to keep him in check. One example that new armor he wears now oughta have a remote or something to deactivate it with General Lane(or someone under him) having access to it.
@@Xighor Wait that many people have powers on the main team flash? You sure?
@@two4328 yep maybe more if my maths is correct
ua-cam.com/video/lVX2pjVv2kg/v-deo.html
Than there's Cisco who's no longer apart of the team Caitlin who's Killer Frost, the Black Guy on the computers who has some Nuclear Powers than there's that girl who I forgot who doesn't casual and has some powers than there's Joe's Wife who can read mind, I'm sure I probably missed something 🤣🤦♂️ and Wally is supposed to be apart of the Team but never is and they'll be another if Ralph Dibney didn't get cancelled lol
Short answer: Because it just is
Long answer: Better writing/dialogue, diverse cast of likeable characters, better effects, better costumes, Better character development, no dragging the story for 26 episodes, addressing real world issues in a non polarizing way, I could literally go on.
Real world issues...?
@@harrambou9468 fr how is addressing real world issues, but everything else u said is factss
@@harrambou9468 I mean the show does address the inherent hypocrisy that a billionaire business man could "save" a small struggling town by bringing more jobs even though people like that create the problems that cause those same towns to struggle. Even though they could theoretically bring more jobs those workers would just be exploited by the businesses that are supposed to be saving them. It definitely is a real world issue that the show addresses
@Theatricult I mean the show also shows the people behind those billionaires and makes the effort to show that people who buy into those kinds of promises are also victims of the people who exploit them so personally I think it’s doing a good job of addressing it in the context of the show but if you don’t I can understand that
@Theatricult I think the way the show portrays it is done well bc like you said it’s not really telling you how to feel about it. I think it was def on purpose to have it like that
The special effects are top notch, you can invest in all the characters, each character has their own personal journey, they matter, you have one continuous storyline and lessening the episode order from 22 to 15 is much better and other Arrowverse shows need to follow Superman & Lois format. I am quite surprised that Helbing who botched The Flash season 5 is the showrunner for Superman & Lois and didn't put the same amount of effort on the Flash like he is doing now with Superman & Lois.
It makes you wonder if he was working under some restrictions on The Flash that he isn't with Superman and Lois.
I think he learned from his mistakes from the Flash
That's the thing though, there were still some great moments in Season 5 of The Flash, there were huge problems, the least of which was the fact that it was massively drawn out in story and scope - but in between there were glimmers of really nice character moments.
@@PetrosofSparta The worst thing about Season 5 was that we all knew where it was going before it started. In several of the trailers we hear Barry say that Nora 'could Marty McFly herself out of existence'. From that point on the destination was all but certain and, for me, most of the season felt rather pointless.
There were good bits in it but it just felt a bit 'meh' to me.
@@andrewflavell9150 Still better than Speed Force Lightsabers.
True you dont hear the other kryptonians calling edge dad so that's a bonus
Beautiful point there
At least Clark is not break dancing when a villain is on the loose
He didn’t break dance when he was taken over by zod either
@@colinbaker1681 exactly
😂😂😂😂😂😂😂.
@@colinbaker1681 😂😂😂😂😂😂😂
That is literally the difference between the shows right now
Honestly, i still find it mind-boggling why the other Arrowverse shows are not getting the same treatment as Superman & Lois in terms of quality
It’s the golden child of DC Superman….
They will in time or at least the new ones will (hopefully)
@@AlexDalger The budget isn't the reason it's so good
its not mind-boggling. Its simple fact Superman lois writers have experience and they know what the major audience wants.
Unlike the flash, batwoman, canaries , superman and lois dont care about forced women power, corny and stupid comic book stories or forced diversity. They focus on good writing thats reflected in real society. Also short episodes helps a lot.
@Marshall Parker Not only Naomi. Every new Arrowverse show from now on will have that treatment.
I love Superman and Lois because it’s doing everything I ever wanted especially with the Superman family which I am so happy it’s doing everything great 😊 especially as a huge fan of the Superman family from rebirth comics I am so happy this show is awesome, also the writing for this show is fantastic and far superior then the other arrowverse shows we gotten over the years which makes me so happy.
They really DO need to make The Flash season eight more like season one or Superman and Lois.
Superman and Lois also feels out of the Arrowverse and maybe that's a good thing.
if they want to go out in a bang, definetly. this season starter crossovers' should be utmost top quality...like u said.
The problem with many super hero shows like the Flash is that the first season really builds up the tension between certain characters, establishing a conflict that we invest in. For whatever reason, the writers and/or executives confuse that investment in the conflict with investment in the antagonist. So they bring the antagonist back as a good guy without having foreshadowed any sort of redemption for the character in the original conflict, completely cheapening this investment that we've made in the conflict. Once that trust is broken, it's hard to keep investing in further conflicts.
The Flash did this with Dr. Wells, Heroes did this with Sylar, and Arrow did it with Malcolm Merlyn. Writers can't seem to get it through their heads that it's OK to just let bad guys be bad guys, and it's OK to let them remain defeated. I'd much rather have fond memories of a conflict that ended at the peak of its tension than tainted memories of a conflict that was made irrelevant by an unnecessary redemption arc.
Superman & Lois hasn't been around long enough to fall into this trap, but the writers so far seem competent, so I have high hopes. Smallville was compelling for many years before they ruined it by having Lex Luthor go from a sympathetic and conflicted young man to a creepy pedophile in just a couple of episodes. His transition from good guy to bad guy was too clumsy to be credible. Like early Smallville, Lois & Clark is doing a much better job of setting Morgan Edge up to go either way. I'm kind of rooting for him to be redeemed right now. We'll see if they can keep it up.
Unfortunate for Flash,the writer is Eric Wallace who wants a West=Allen Fan Fiction than a Flash show...
Or cancel the flash at this point I can defend it anymore.
they need to end flash lol
When people hide behind the pandemic as an excuse a season may not be as strong... it's so easy to counter. Superman and Lois also filmed in the midst of the Pandemic and still have a generally strong season. If anything due to the pandemic, some shows had LONGER time to plan ahead before filming than the typical schedule before the pandemic... so yeah, not buying it.
@@theflashdcuniverse Hi Barry, yes I rememmber you as well. If you have that insider knowledge that's cool, but imo it still doesn't help that even before COVID, I felt the show has been really tanking in quality, covid aside. But that's of course mine, and probably a few others opinions.
@@theflashdcuniverse If you've watched both The Flash and Superman & Lois this season, the main problem is the writing. I've watched every episode of The Flash from season 1 and the writing quality started to go down in season 4 but accelerated in season 6 when Eric Wallace took over as showrunner.
It’s like saying the dog ate my homework. The dog ate all our homework, it’s barfing the screenplays up in the Indian Ocean right now and all of us are in the same dog-barf paper-soaked world in a dingy stay-at-home life raft, hunched under our desks and doing the best we can. A new disaster reveals the cracks that were hiding, it doesn’t create them. Don’t blame the winds of change for drawing attention to the man behind the curtain not knowing what he’s been doing for year
I really don't want superman and lois to crossover with anything else, it's so good and don't want them to ruin it
It's ok but l would like to see him with green lantern
A lot of us are forgetting that this is just season 1 and some of us are comparing this season to the current seasons of other shows. In my opinion, this season is just as good as the first season of Arrow and the Flash. The first seasons to those CW shows were awesome.
What I'm saying is that it's literally too early to compare an incomplete season to current seasons.
@Ahana Chakraborty I watched it. I was referring to some people in the comments.
I still think this first season is better than flash and arrow's first season.
While I loved most season 1 Arrowverse shows, this one still stands out the most. I think Black Lightning also had a very strong first season and sadly it got worse each season. I really hope this show doesn't suffer the same fate. The same with Star Girl. I'm about to watch the first episode of season 2.
Shut up man am a big flash fan but am so sorry the quality of just the visual effects is as if we are watching a man of steel series . This hbomax series is clear of cw
nah season 1 flash and arrow was ass
Superman and Lois is also taking its time, filming for season 2 isn't supposed to start until September 13, which I would hope implies they are intending to increase the quality of an already amazing show
The special affects are a lot better too it makes it look like top notch movie
Agreed
I mean, the special effects in flash season 7 are much worse than in season 1 although they are supposed to have a higher budget
I think that by having a higher budget the vfx team are trying to do bigger things than what they can and it looks worse than in the first seasons that they played it safe with the vfx and the smaller budget
The only DC CW shows I still watch are Superman & Lois, Stargirl, and Batwoman. (I have a very love-hate relationship w/ Batwoman.) And besides those 3, the only show I'm looking forward to is Naomi. I just don't care about the Flash anymore and I was never a fan of Supergirl. Arrow was good, I loved Black Lighting but both have ended. And I can't remember one thing about Legends season 1. I have moved over to HBO and that's it. Doom Patrol, Harley Quinn, Titans, and Young Justice are just more of my level for me. I love quality, not quantity.
This Superman has more heart and brings me back to my childhood hero. I hope they do this for The Flash for season 8.
S&L just has better writing, it’s not cheesy at all , unlike flash
A lot of arrowverse shows are really gd in the first few seasons I just hope it doesn't get worse as it gose on like others
This
Unfortunately the production have been sub par for every Arrowverse series since first season to the point that they can't execute bigger plot points and have to find a low budget way around them. That's not the case with Superman & Lois. Bigger production delivers better options for storytelling.
Strong writing and acting and a real love and care for these characters without extra agendas always wins, people want a great story at the end of the day Superman and Lois delivers
It's everything a Superman fan has wanted.
Superman and Lois, and Stargirl are the anti-Arrowverse shows that have unbroken characters, which is actually refreshing
It’s sad how the shows have fallen off a cliff in quality even with having to air the finale of last season in the beginning of season 7 . I would’ve thrown out filler episodes this season and added to the Godspeed arc in the later half of the season . I just don’t know why with Eric Wallace that this show has just plummeted in quality .
I think the first season argument doesn’t even hold up in this scenario because I rewatched the first seasons of the flash, and season 2 was just as good as season 1. And even season 3 was ok. But I think Superman and Lois just blows anything that the CW has done out of the water. (Maybe smallville was better but I never saw smallville.)
Just to add onto that, I think the second seasons of Arrow and Legends were both a lot better than 1.
Smallville was my favorite show back in the day, but I think S&L is way beyond Smallville. But Smallville was a catalyst for all of these DC shows.
Superman and Lois is a breath of fresh air, the care towards story, character development as well as overall pacing, and focus is second to none. This series should be the start of a new DCTV universe, without connecting to the Arrowverse.
personally i love Legends of Tomorrow simply because it breaks from the 2 standard CW modes for superhero shows that they've had until Stargirl & Superman & Lois.
The hopeful, light, good superhero show - The Flash/Supergirl
&
The dark, serious, broody superhero show - Arrow/Batwoman
Legends may lack serious budget in seasons but the cast has fun with the stupidity of the writing and the writers are obviously having fun too. something you genuinely don't feel feel with other dctv shows on theCW.
not to mention that the rep is good and not forced. they manage to juggle a pretty large cast it characters decently. all the heroes are B-D list but still are made to be awesome and the found family vibe just gets me every time.
my only wish is they would take things more seriously time to time but when they take things too seriously it kills the show and people don't like it. so. im happy with my weirdos
TO BE CLEAR THOUGH: i am bitter about how good the Superman show is vs Supergirl show because i am
the CW ruined the potential of the Supergirl show and I'm gonna be bitter for the rest of my life
the only way they can make it up is green lighting the Green Arrow and the Black Canary in the same quality as Superman & Lois
God i wished the writing was better between for these shows
I tried so hard to get into Arrowverse via different shows, but I just can't. To me all their shows feel so "early 2000's" and a lot of them don't feel relatable or compelling. So when Superman & Lois got announced I was simply uninterested. However two days ago I got a bit drunk and decided to give Superman & Lois a try, now I'm hooked. You are right, Superman & Lois is surprisingly good.
I think the biggest difference between shows like Superman and Lois, Stargirl and The Flash is that you can tell that the showrunners of the first two shows genuinely care about their show while The Flash's Eric Wallace doesn't really.
Stargirl is pretty good imo
Then explain how the show runner for super man and Lois is the same guy who ran season 3, 4, and 5 of the flash. The simple answer is that the other shows are comic booky and formulaic on purpose because that’s what the style of older arrowverse shows has always been. Stargirl and super man and Lois are different in both tone and style because WB/CW recognize that people are tired of the campy, exaggerated comic book storytelling that started the arrowverse
@@joshz2491 you pretty much answered your own question. Boba even used the quote from the showrunner where Hellbeing stated things needed to change.
@@joepenny5100 exactly my point. Geoff Johns not only knows what he is doing but he also cares deeply about what he does.
Flash has fake heart
6:30 was one of the coolest things I've seen in any superhero show, marvel included
I don’t quite understand why The Flash started going down hill after the first few seasons. Who left, which writers changed? My opinion is that the CW started to add other superhero shows like supergirl / legends and money was spread too thin so The Flash and maybe Arrow had less investment. At the beginning The Flash had a lot more outdoor filming , looked more expensive to produce than the last few seasons. Who were the show runners/ writers of season 1,2,3? Did they leave / let go? What happened?
Superman and Lois is just so entertaining, hope it continues to be serious and sometimes dark as well. It’s amazing !!!
I agree bro
agreed
For Flash, yes the new writer Eric Wallace join around season 4....and did season 5 onwards....
@@yugiwin1 I just searched it up he joined 2017 and honestly they should just sack him for the break dancing alone.
The writer of the early seasons of the Flash got canceled for being pervy towards women.
With time the CW will just keep improving, Superman and Lois will always be my favorite CW show forever. I love your reviews and honest opinions on these amazing shows. Can’t wait for more from CW as well as you ❤️
Brilliant opener!! bzzzzt! ha ha ha!! I think you hit the nail on the head, I as you know AM one of the ones that still desperately wants to enjoy the Flash I've even said I'm going to give it a go next season, but getting two great new shows and keeping other shows running on the CW is a bit...... Nuts?! Todd Helbing's statement about the competition is exactly the mentality the CW Shows need! Superman & Lois and Stargirl are hopefully the benchmark for all future CW DC properties going forward. If it is, things will be good. Meanwhile (sigh!) I'm still going to hold out a little hope for my favorite speedster and tune in next season. Great video Boba! Much love your pal in the U.K.
I really much agree with you I’ve been watching Arrow, Flash since the beginning and I love those shows I grew up watching all these shows since the beginning but no doubt about most of these shows lost there magic especially The Flash and Arrow I feel like Flash really Peaked in the first two seasons similar to Arrow. Flash seasons 1&2 was peak Flash even tho people hated on season 3 and 4 I think it went down hill season 5 but near the end season 5 was getting good with the whole reverse Flash plot with Nora than season 6 started leading up to Crisis was amazing episodes but than after crisis season 6 was just mediocre and season 7 have been mediocre I mean the first couple episodes finishing the Mirror arc wasn’t too bad tbh really wasn’t but than I don’t know what happened the rest of the season. But Superman&Lois is an amazing amazing show it feels like movie I think this the best modern Superman this gets the Character of Superman and Lois and everyone in Superman’s world something that I don’t really think the movies have done. Superman is not someone with a god complex he’s a guy with powers who choose to do the right thing he didn’t feel like he had to over guilt or trauma but he chooses to do the right thing because it’s the right thing. That’s the main thing I think Superman&Lois just gets right and the writing in the show is way better than all the other Arrowverse shows.
Season 5 onwards is done by the new writer Eric Wallace....
At first Tyler’s Superman in supergirl I wasn’t feeling his role in it, until he had his own show mannn his Superman role grew on me I was impressed supes & Lois show tops all the DC shows
I will now only watch super man and Lois. I dropped legends of tomorrow when they killed off rip hunter.
Oh I went back and watched arrow and flash season one. So much better then what we got now.
Legends has become more like doom patrol. Basically s2 was the last serious season and s3+ was more comedy and i kinda like that, they're just outcasts tryna save time so them being clowns kinda works.
The side characters too are much interesting too. Like Lois compared to Iris and what they contribute. I think The Flash started to decline was everyone started getting super powers.
Iris and flash have No chemistry.
I definitely agree about the more powers thing but there definitely is a lot more like having way to many main characters and having what's suppose to be the main character be a side one also how boring they are making it with a bunch of talk scenes and inspiration love/family stuff (don't forget talking down villians)
Iris is so pretty but is a wooden actress. They needed someone fun and funny with comedic timing for Barry. It’s that felicity thing again where they casted Lauren as the female lead but felicity had better chemistry. They should have kept it open ended. I don’t think the actress gets the iris character
It's definitely got a more mature feel about it to the other Arrowverse shows. Used to love the Flash and Arrow, but have been looking for a reason to ditch the Flash and then Bart started singing in the finale....Aaaand the coffin was nailed! 🤣
Bart singing was actually one of the few highlights of a season that had (1) the fastest man alive "defeating" his enemies by giving them pep talks, (2) filler episodes in an already shortened schedule, and (3) unsympathetic side characters with boring storylines.
I agree with every word said in this video, I even posted on another video that when you watch Superman and Lois back to back with The Flash they feel like they were filmed in different eras in time, as of season 4 of the flash it feels like it was written and came out in the 90s when those comic films were very campy, very over the top acting like they were trying to sell toys to kids… whereas Superman and Lois feels like it was written during the comic book film boom from 2008 to the current where it’s very well written & it’s taken far more serious & is mostly written with mature audiences in mind.
Legends of Tomorrow dials to 10 all the things you hate about Eric Wallace's Flash but it actually works.
I can't say enough how much I appreciate the cinematography and quality that we got with Superman & Lois. It felt like a miniseries quality than the usual CW produce, and I hope the studio don't drop the ball with the show in later seasons. It would sucked so much if it drop to The Flash season 7's level. And yes I agree, it's not just the budget, it's the writing that matters most. Flash Season 1 & 2, Arrow Season 1 & 2 were great even with lower budget.
Well said Boba. While I've been a CW DCTV Arrowverse fan since the beginning in 2012 and a WB/CW DCTV Fan since Smallville I do agree over time the other Arrowverse shows have gotten worse as the seasons have gone on. My favorite show Supergirl has gotten worse since Season 5 and The Flash has gotten worse since Season 4 plus Arrow got worse after season 2. Even Smallville got worse as the later seasons went on. Shows like my favorite Superman & Lois and Stargirl have been so good because the writing plus story and characters are great. The CW DC Arrowverse plus HBO Max DCTV shows new ones coming in after Superman & Lois and Stargirl need to change and match the quality and make them good. I'm still a fan of this Arrowverse universe but I think it's time for change bring in new characters in.
I just wish they didn’t take so many breaks. And I know they’re justified sometimes, but multiple 2wk+ breaks is crazy for a first season.
Eh at least we can stretch out our excitement for the show. More memorable ig
They've had some pandemic related shutdowns. Since an episode of S&L takes more time to produce (both shooting time and post-production) than other Arrowverse shows, such a shutdown can throw an already tight schedule way off. They're not taking breaks for vacation.
They’re doing the “quality, not quantity” trope, which works with this show
I gotta wait to see Supe and Louis in season 2 or 3 b/f saying its fully better than the other CW shows because TBF the majority of Arrowverse shows are good the first few seasons b/f falling to shit
Exactly
True
Once more i hear "run barry run "
I will break his leg myself
I completely agree with your analysis. I LOVED the Flash and was genuinely excited for how it started. If we're being honest though...it is now like a daytime soap opera.
Inversely, Superman and Louis is what I wish The Flash could be. During the first episode of S & L I couldn't help but verbalize how beautiful the shots were. They were intentional, creative, and very cinematic. S & L is just a solid show; hands down.
At this point, I really only watch The Flash because I feel like I'm invested and have to see it through until its done. It's dying a slow death but I can't turn my head.
This show had good character development , 3 dimensional characters that even though they do wrong you still feel sympathy for them due to the amazing writing and the tone is more about family which makes the torentos proud.
I’ve never watched any CW show. I started watching Superman & Lois out of curiosity and absolutely love it. Videos like this and general talk around this show put me off the CW shows and going back to watch for continuity. Are they worth watching? I’ve seen some clips especially the most ‘’memed” clips, yes the worst clips and frankly the rest of CW shows look like crap.
Nope...save yourself the heartache... You don't have to watch the other shows at all
The Flash season 1-3 were amazing (some wouldn't agree about season 3) but it wasn't that bad. Just to save yourself if you do watch it (which I think you should) by NOT GOING PAST SEASON 3
As much as we still love the Flash, I think we'd be fine if it ends next season. I think they'd have to cut down the episodes to 10 max, and 1.5x-2x the budget. Was hoping Legends would end this season, along with Supergirl.
S&L doesn't play like a typical CW show. Arrow had that feel for a while too and then... I personally enjoyed Black Lightening for similar reasons because of the topics they touched on. But definitely S&L plays more like a mini series than a TV show
"Super man and Lois have a bigger budget"
Well... Why THE FUCK DO CW SHOWS HAVE 23 EPISODES THEN?
I'm sorry but Superman and Lois is 100000x better than the flash and arrow combined 🙏🏾 real emotions great acting and plot! Well done to the CW for this one
Eric Wallace is theflash issue. He was part of season 4-5-6-7. S3 was not perfect but it was better then 4 and 5. Eric Wallace even dare to say side characters are more interresting than Barry. He said the interlude was to develop Allegra but it was a Ultraviolet arc more then anything else.
I miss season 1 and 2 of the flash.
I hope superman and lois will maintain the quality for a while.
The ONLY thing I like about Season 7 Flash was all the references and stuff to the Golden Era of the show (Season 1-3)
Couldn't agree more. Unfortunately for some reason where I live it has not come out on Tv, but I make sure to watch as many clips on UA-cam as I can and your reviews
i think a line in the new 14th episode makes superman and lois elevates it so much above others.
Jon argues with Clark about working with John Henry and learning from him to build weapons, Clark initially objects, Jon responds with how he can't have it both ways:he can't keep worrying about how Edge is a threat, how the boys will be able to handle him in case if he's not around, and also worry about Jon learning to build weapons.
Clark's response?
A sigh, and "Ok, you're making too much sense. Go, you can learn from him".
This felt specifically a dig at other CW shows, mainly the flash, because this part alone would have been dragged out into an entire episode.
I’m surprised by Superman and Lois, is wicked GOOD!
It’s the best DC TV/streaming iteration since Smallville. I just recently watch season 1 out of fear that it would miss the mark and make me cringe like the other Arrowverse shows, and boy was I gladly wrong. Great great show!!
Totally agree. S&L and Stargirl are as good as any of the Marvel and HBO Max superhero series. The other CW shows come across as Glee with capes and cowls. The shark has well and truly jumped on those shows.
Wish u pointed out the fact that "The Flash" has the same 5 actors every episode. While superman has so many good characters aside from himself. When the godspeeds were attacking the city for a couple episodes we really didn't see any harm being done to the city (or its non-existing ppl) the show only focuses on team flash being in the camera 24/7
Definitely agree. I instantly noticed a BIG upgrade in the shows production when I started watching Superman and Lois. I am a filmmaker myself and I got tired of the arrowverse's direction from a production perspective and the writing. After Arrow ended, I was kind of done with the CW until I watched Superman and Lois. These days I only watch Superman and Lois now, because it, Peacemaker and the Marvel Disney + shows have set the new standard
Bobatalk I totally agree with you mate I feel like the shows in arrowverse has become really silly and dumb especially in the recent episodes over the recent years but thing is I still watched them because I’m still interested in them but I grew tired of unwanted stuffs and plot twists now Superman and Lois that’s a different story it does remind me of earlier seasons like the flash and arrow that’s what I love about them
Superman and Lois didn't dumb Clark down in order to give his group a reason to be there. Clark is intelligent and doesn't have a group to lean on, he doesn't run (or fly) around, asking everyone what to do.
Actually, Superman and Lois was made by HBOMAX so it isn't really a CWverse show even though it airs on that network
Superman and Lois is written, produced, and funded by HBO Max. It’s only streamed on the CW, that’s why it is so much better.
Nope written by the creators of flash is a cw show and only shows on hbo because of there deal
I'm sorry I love you Boba but you showing me the Chillblaine fight really hurts my eyes 😂
Never mind your eyes, my ears bleed just from the name "Chillblaine." 😝
Flash fans cant blame the pandemic because the problem is not acting or cgi or anything like that it's the writing.
Superman and Stargirl are high quality all the way around. The only stars in the CW/DC franchises currently at this time. The Flash used to be like this and Supergirl too but sadly they are ending thier runs on a whimper. The other CW/DC shows should follow the same format and quality as Stargirl and Superman.
Supergirl was terrible at the start
I love how you pointed out almost, if not all of the facts
The Flash became my favorite tv show back when season 1 to 3 were coming out and starting from season 4, i tried to like it but couldn't. Arrow was also pretty good, I don't remember much of supergirl since I didn't really care about it, I just watched the show because it's part of the crossovers. Legends was best at season 2, mainly reverse flash. Black Lightning was ok, I guess. Superman and Lois easily goes into the top 10 DC tv shows.
The best DC show, in my opinion, is Watchmen.
I feel physical pain every time you show scenes from The Flash.
Two core reasons;
1) they understand the main characters perfectly, without trying to “improve upon them”,
2) the most important one in terms of enjoyment, NO FUCKING WOKENESS!
Black lighting was actually getting good but then they ended it abruptly
Although cheesy and inconsistent, the first season of The Flash showed some actual heart and ambition out into it and u can see it. My uncle (not rlly my uncle just a family friend) writes for The Flash and says he’s gotten tired of writing for The Flash but he doesn’t want to leave cuz of how long he has been there for The Flash
I can't argue one bit. Superman and Lois has noticably raised the bar. Part of what I think about it is that they got the experience now of what a lot of fans may be wanting. I can also see show makers being afraid of changing the formula of older shows. Even though the pace has been set on another one in the Arrowverse it is still working to a satisfactory extent. I also see the conecpt of keeping the show in some form of variety. In the semi early days of the arrow verse Arrow was the dark serious drama. The flash was the light family friendly one and legends was the comic relief. So now the flash is the light show while the others are turning into more dark drama Which seems to be the pace they are going for. A light Comedy would be nice.
I also believe that Superman and Lois will keep quality through other seasons. Another show though Titans it was the first season that was shaky for me but I kept an eye on it and the next ones so far have gotten a little better. Batwoman is a problem for me though. I fell in love too much with Ruby Rose being batwoman. The dynamic worked so well for me, plus I'm not a big fan of shows that are blatenly social justicy which they are doing with the second season somewhat. That's also why I have a hard time watching Supergirl.
How can you compare a show in its 1st season to a show in its 7th season? Who knows, maybe S&L might end up like the Flash. Remember during its 1st season, when everyone said that Flash was the greatest superhero show on TV?
I thought Flash sucked in the first season, never even watched the show beyond that.
Remember though that this is only season 1, it could get as bad as the other shows. Even though I find it to be really good right now and I love it and it's best arrow-verse show right now. And also many other arrow-verse shows season 1's were pretty good as well, but went downhill afterwards.
Just dont think of it otherwise you'll just be worried. If it happens then we will hate on it but until then just enjoy it.
I remember loving arrow and the flash during their first season, i even remember liking season 2 of arrow better than netflix daredevil, crazy time
The CGI in Superman and Lois is also better than all the other CW shows as you see the difference between the heat vision of kryptonites in S&L compared to the weird blue heat vision on Supergirl
Also, I am a season into S&L and not one additionally useless extra character.
i do agree, but remember, this is only season 1 so far, its perfect yes, but, the flash s1 and s2 were great and the later seasons declined in storylines, comic book accuracy, fights, drama, etc. So hopefully this show continues to be great.
Writers and producers of Flash and Batgirl should look at the work done by Superman and Lois and Stargirl which have great story writing, arching story lines, pacing, effects, cinema film making styles. Superman has some advantages as the family story lines are core to the storytelling and stakes are often high in episodes, as does the family elements of Stargirl. Stakes in Flash just don't seem as high anymore as they used to in some earlier seasons. Flash has had some stand out episodes in past seasons with some nice sci fi elements from time travel butterfly effects for example. Not so much elements of high jeopardy and suspense or mystery in its current season in my mind.
Superman and Lois is not a CW show. It's an HBO production. It's only airing on CW.
Just imagine Swamp Thing wouldn't have been canceled and then you also have Doom Patrol, Stargirl, Superman & Lois, Titans... Pure Quality!!! 👍👍👍
I really hope the Superman and Lois follows the same example of Lois and Clark the new adventures of superman. The 90s show was fantastic and I have really high hopes for superman for lois
What’s sad is that, to my knowledge, Superman and Lois’ showrunner used to be the flash’s show runner...
That is true. Todd Helbing was co-showrunner or showrunner for seasons 2 to 5.
Couldn't agree more! Perfectly said.
we need the flash and other arrowverse shows to end and make them all make the justice league for a big budget justice league show.
That way olivers and barrys kids and clarks kids in the future could be young justice and we won't need a arrow spinoff.
I feel like it would fit the everyone on one earth thing alot more and superman and lois can continue with clark saying he is with family and only comes when something super big happens.
A timeline change and we could get batman, if we get good writers we could get a good batman and then we have the founding members of the JL like gideon said.
They could face powerful villains and fix characters like supergirl.
Superman and Lois is for sure leagues better than all the other arrow verse shows
I am so HAPPY that people are giving this show a chance and realising how good it is! I love so much about it. Those beautiful scenery shots with the sunlight ?? c'mon. but also, I absolutely love Tyler Hoechlin as Clark Kent/ Superman. He has that nerdy, kind and wholesome badass good guy energy, you know? haha. I remember watching the first episode and falling in love with Superman within 15 minutes. That "thanks, my mom made it" ?? that's who Superman is!! Really really glad that WB has finally given us. good Superman that we can love.
Superman and Lois has that HBOMAX money that's why the production quality is so much better. HBOMAX is a game changer to the CW because they now can produce shows with the help of the streaming service. Expect to see the family friendly DC shows on the CW because is a way to make more money before the shows get to the streaming service and the more mature and R rated will be only available on HBOMAX.
Batwoman got an HBOMAX deal to have the streaming rights but didn't get monetary help because the show came out before the streaming service was even available and was made with the same standards as the other DC CW shows.
It's very clear they are trying to stay away from the Arrowverse because they want to improve the future of DC shows. But there's also the conflic that Netflix has a deal with most Arrowverse shows and that's why the studio doesn't care too much about the quality of those shows as long as they keep making money. The only way The Flash is going to end is until Grant Gusting decides to leave the show, just like Stephen Amell and Melissa Benoist decided not to continue anymore.
To be fair, it is not a CW show. It's an HBO Max show but it airs on the CW.
The villain of the week formula was a great thing for the Arrowverse to begin with. Gave time for character development and made their heroes look better for being able to stop threats. Having one villain that takes months to defeat makes the hero look incompetent unless they are showing they are capable of stopping threats it makes the hero look good and the villain even better.
The problem comes from an insistence to tie it into the main plot as well. This used to work. The first two seasons of the flash did it perfectly and Arrow managed to really develop Oliver's character through it. The problem is they've run out of ways to justify it now that they are actively damaging the main villains so they can have them have henchmen for a few episodes. See it's all connected. Why do they work together. Who cares. It makes everything really boring.
Also, they've ran out of interesting villains to be one off villains that the writers are willing to give away without being a main villain. Plus The characters have reached their end growth as a character so it's not developing them anymore. It is just filler.
The formula that was the Arrowverse biggest strength is now holding it back.
Probably because they didn't had enough time to screw it up. Arrow was also excellent the first two season. Let's talk again in 2-3 years, shall we?
Honestly when Superman and Lois was on right after the Flash, after watching the first five episodes of Superman and Lois I wanted the flash to be over already because I was waiting for Superman and Lois and I wasn't even excited about watching The Flash anymore especially after what I saw after episode 12.
Superman is an A list character tbh and like in this season you can feel they put so much time and effort into the story and everything that it makes you appreciate it more.
Superman and Lois fits more in the DC Universe show then the CW's dc Universe show
Definitely agree with a lot of what you were saying Boba. I always say that just because a show has bad or somewhat good cgi, that doesn't affect a show's quality, it's always mainly good acting and writing that affects it in a positive way. Without it, it just spirals downhill. And again, I always wonder that if S&L didn't get picked up by the CW, would that have changed the Arrowverse completely? As much as I am enjoying the other shows, just enjoying them along for the ride, S&L brings out more towards it's characters and actually make them matter and cared for while also telling a very good story as well. Idk how much longer the whole "season 1 good, seasons after bad" excuse or the covid excuse will last but they don't make up a show whether bad or good. Just hoping the other shows, hell even fans, actually see it that way too
haven't watched the recent seasons of flash and the speedforce swords got me. WHEEZING