The Confusing Belligerent Status of FINLAND in WW2 Explained
Вставка
- Опубліковано 15 тра 2024
- Finland was really stuck between a rock and a hard place in WW2, so it's understandable why its politics were so complicated. In this video, we try and untangle this for you.
Check out some of the music we use in our videos!🎶
• / @relaxjack
Check out our Other High-Quality History Channel Here!📜
/ thebraved
Check out some of the music we use in our videos!🎶
• / @relaxjack
Buy us a KoFi to help support the channel & team! 🎭
•ko-fi.com/thefront
Check out some of the music we use in our videos!🎶
•bit.ly/RelaxJackYT
Join other history buffs on our Discord!📚
• / discord
🎬Video Credits:
Narrator - Cam
Editors - Giorgi, Steve
Writer - Nick, Brad Dare
Researcher - Daniel
Intro music -
Created By: / 16bitrecordsofficial
Found Here: • 🎧🎖️The Front🎖️🎧
#TheFront #History
For business inquiries and to learn about our team check out our website🌐:
•frontiermediaco.com
Chapters
0:00 Introduction
0:49 Winter War
2:16 Continuation War
5:05 Lapland War
6:04 War crimes
7:57 Conclusion
It's not like a lot of other countries ever came rushing to Finlands aid.
I mean there were volunteers and stuff from Sweden but most nations were terrified of pissing off Papa Stalin, and with good reason
@@ProjectEkerTest33 No argument there, but it did leave Finland in a position of only being able to rely on themselves.
@@taylorlibby7642 Yeah and the fact that it remained independent despite all that is a pretty incredible example of not only their determination but also the pragmantic diplomatic stance they took
Just like poland and Czechoslovakia.
Pathetic how Finland’s fellow Scandinavian nations didn’t help.
Your commentary on Ryti is a bit unfair.
In order to survive the onslaught of the Soviets, German supplies were necessary and they would only be received if Finland promised to not seek peace and keep fighting until the end.
Ryti was kind of playing the Germans, he offered his personal guarantee as president, which holds no legal meaning in Finland as the parliment hasn't agreed.
When Finland had to seek peace, he stepped aside and let Mannerheim take his place in seeking peace as Finland was not bound by Ryti's personal promise.
This was the plan from the start, ugly perhaps but necessary.
Ryti was after the war charged as "guilty of the war", forced through by the Soviets and the allied control commission and sent to prison along with many other Finnish officials.
The Finns saw him as a martyr though.
Underrated comment
Ryti's personal guarantee of Finland not seeking an armistice with the Russians also contained the clever catch of "as long he was president". He resigns - Mannerheim becomes president - problem solved. And to comment on the video, Ryti wasn't discarded. He was well aware what needed to be done and took one for the team.
I think it might have been attempt in sarcastic humor (given the "unfortunately"). Though he could have made it clear... It was all a planned misdirection and turn coat maneuver by Finnish leadership.
Ryti took one for the team at personal cost. He has been respected for that ever since here in Finland.
It was all a devils bargains. Mostly the question was which devil to bargain with and.... We Finns bargained with both in various stages. There was no option "don't bargain with the devil" on the table.
Atleast we managed to keep the bargain to minimum.
For real. I was kinda pissed off when he said that.
No, not as president. As a person.
He signed (was advised to do so) using his own name and that was the way out off the war.
"Side? I am not on anybodys side, because nobody is on my side."
-Treebeard
Yeah? And your wife left ya old coot.
Dammit, you beat me to it.
Finland did what finland needed to do. They didnt become a soviet territory like everyone else on russias border
They did, they weren't just directly annexed.
@@MouldMadeMind We did? I never noticed.
@@MouldMadeMind ummm nope we kept our independence
Official yes, inofficial no.
Finland had to do what the soviets say, to keep it that way.
What made them less more then a soviet puppet.
They didn't annexd Finland because they didn't had to.
So basically we were like Canada. ;) Seriously though, the big difference was the communist system. While it is true that we were very careful with our foreign policy (”finlandization”), we remained a multi-party parliamentary democracy, did not join the Warsaw Pact and could integrate with the western economic organizations. Maybe that did make us a puppet state? It just didnt feel like it, watching from within.
Fun fact that time Hitler visited Finland a reporter secretly recorded him talking with Mannerheim. This recording is the only recording that exist of Hitler talking normaly and not shouting. Later the actor who played Hitler in the Downfall movie practiced how Hitler talked normaly used this recording as a reference.
Hitler already knew that he can't win the war.
He did not said it directly, but if you listen the record you can hear it.
@@k3psu48 Naturally he had his public speak voice, when order army speak and conversation voice.
Jist to add here, the recording was done by the Finnish army intelligence, I believe under orders from Mannerheim himself
@Big blue whale By all accounts, Mannerheim had lit a cigar right in front of Hitler, who hated smoking. Just to get it across that he didn’t respect the guy at all.
Finn here. This topic is closely studied in school and the "lesser evil in a pinch between giants" -view is typically accepted. I studied history further in secondary high-school and my understanding is that the choices that Finnish government made were likely the best that could have been chosen from a bunch of terrible options. "The wars" are truly becoming history as the people who fought in them are slowly but surely passing on. The last living recipient of the Mannerheim Cross (most distinguished military honor in Finland, similar to a Medal of Honor), Tuomas Gerdt, was buried today.
Hyvä nähdä toinen suomalainen
Finn here, we had a massive facist problem in Finland. Its accepted that Finland was indeed allied with N-Germany. This view is supported by the majority of scholars in Finland, but its not accepted by the people as it puts us in a weird light. We have huge problems accepting our history. Especially the civil war, that is where you should start if you wish to understand Finland history. The main conflict was with the aristocratic order, that was threatened by the communists.
@@Nobody-Nowhere Finland was still a democracy and no jews were moved.
Aircraft are my thing, and Finland had the widest spread of suppliers - to quote Wiki: "The Finnish Air Force included numerous American, British, Czechoslovakian, Dutch, French, German, Italian, Soviet, and Swedish designs." The sheer logistics and brain-power of swapping from working on a British bomber, to a German fighter, to an American fighter etc etc just floors me. The pilots and ground staff were beyond adaptable as different machines came and went during the course of the war - just amazing!
finnish air force kill death ratio was around 25 soviet planes for one finnish plane
Have you heard of Mörkö-Morane?
@@sergeitheyefreytor9221 I have, but know nothing much apart from the name....
@@claveworks well The Finns decided to put a Klimov M-105P, Two 7.5 machine guns and a 20mm machine gun on a Morane-Saulnier.
64 km/h (40 mph; 35 kn) faster than the original French version, and the service ceiling was increased from 10,000 m (33,000 ft) to 12,000 m (39,000 ft).
Didn't the Finns have the greatest Kill to Death Ratio with a single type plane during the whole War and that plane was the Brewster Buffalo?
Its always interesting when some people claim that Soviets just wanted some land and not to conquer the whole country. We have three examples that show what would have happened if Finland would have agreed on the deal. The Baltic nations Estonia was bullied to let Soviet have bases and then when they got them they demanded to change of government and forcefully annexed them. Latvia was also forced to let Soviet troops to their lands their leadership got changed and eventually annexed. Soviets traded city of Vilnius to have bases in Lithuania, demanded change of government and eventually annexed. Still somehow Finland would be special case where this would have not happened. Anyone who drinks that cool-aid are either nuts, intentionally lying or refusing to face the facts. Not to mention that the area Soviets were asking was good defensive area like Winter War showed and if Finland did not have that they would have had easier time to invade.
It's tankies. Tankies spread that propaganda. They will never show their true face. They always pretend not to be tankies. They're honestly worse than neo nazis. At least Hitler worshippers own up to it.
Add in the fiasco that was the 'Terijoki Government' of Kuusinen - a government only recognised by the USSR and comprised of Soviet based Finns. Setting up an alternative government is a clear attempt at delegitimising at best and creating an alternative at worst. Why bother setting if a puppet government if the Soviets "just wanted some land"?
Today it counts as annexation. But in those times it seemed differently.
From the Soviets perspective, and believe me, it is a perspective nonetheless, it was support of a left wing/communist parties, that followed with full establishment of a Soviet based government there.
It's called politics. And as much as everyone hates it today, by those times it seemed for one side as an act of good deed and the other as a crime.
@@AmorPatem Those cases are counted as annexation always even back then. The word means taking land to your own country that was before owned by another. It has no other meaning and is not negative or positive. Its no way anything to do with politics. Not to mention I even stated that they caused the change of government that gave them the right on their opinion to annex them. Still saying that it was a good deed by Soviets is highly doubtful it was selfish act to garner Soviet Unions interest to grow their influence. There is no real benevolence to try to better and help them just gain more power and land. This was evidently clear of the treatment of the local populations that were not Russian during the Soviet rule. Russian perspective can be what they want it to be but their actions speak otherwise and that is what history shows. There is no hate in this just facts and the fact that you throw around word "hate" just makes your argument weak when there is no room for emotions when your record history as it has to be taken as it is not how we like to justify it to be or later try to rewrite.
@@Wezqu Very interesting to hear this point. But I must digress, I clearly meant hate towards politics, not towards any specific country.
As for the fact of annexation itself, I cannot agree on this one.
I haven't said that it is a good deed, rather I'd like to point out that there was really no other options, not for Stalin nor for Mannerheim.
Stalin eventually saw the possibility for an attack from Finland's territories and he negotiated with Finnish government in order to peacefully exchange some territories from Soviet Union to some territories from Finland.
Now don't get me personally wrong here. I am no mean biasing myself to neither side, but it is important to understand that during those times everyone acted, as you've stated before, due to their own interest.
As Mannerheim declined the offer, which is unsurprisingly anyone would do, both sides had either choice but to start a conflict.
Now what would happen if Finland actually gave her territories in exchange? I don't know. In fact I don't think I have any right to assume what would happen then.
As for a little backup, I'd like to point out that many people see Stalin as a foolish tyrant, which is matter of fact not correct. Indeed he made mistakes and quite drastic ones, but he wouldn't become supreme commander of Soviet Union just by mass purges and tyrranical ambitions. He was a strategical thinking type of a man.
However I do agree that fact of annexation was in charge, since USSR was disqualified from the League of Nations for the beginning of a Winter War.
Finland was on the side of Finland. Plain and simple.
That seems to be very difficult for some people to understand. Often they seem to be from the major powers, as well...
Everyone's on their own side
4:40 Risto Ryti said Finland would fight as long as he was president if they got the supplies necessary to do it.
When the fighting turned very badly and we were on the losing foot, he resigned to allow Mannerheim to take up the presidency to broker peace.
7:10 Lauri wasn't part of Viking, between the Winter and Continuation War, he received training in Germany, and after the Continuation War he didn't want to fight the germans and was demobilized, so he went to Germany again and ended up leading some troops.
8:10 Finland was a co-belligerent, not ally.
Yes the thing with president Ryti was a trick to keep the german aid.
Wait a minute, Risto Ryti, didnt say Finland would fight with Germany till the bitter end. He said Finland would fight with Germany till the bitter end, as long as he was president. He said this to trick Germany into giving Finland supplies to bring peace negotiations in Finlands "favor". He then resinged. It was all a grand plan.
Ecxactly: he benefitted the blind spot in dictator's eye. Hitler didn't undertand, that the President is not the same thing as the country.
Hitler: "Wait! That's against the rules!"
Per what I was told, my grandfather who moved and lived near Rovaniemi in Lapland due to marrying my grandmother until his death, kept finding old German landmines in his potato field. They had no phone, and he couldn't be bothered to drive into town to call the army to come get rid of the landmines and mess up his potato field. So as the landmines surfaces due to the winter frost bringing them up he just took them, and dumped them in the nearby marsh in the deepest pool possible, letting them sink into the deep bogs to be destroyed that way. The same marsh pool was also where a lot of other stuff such as old hand grenades, rusty bayonets, and whatever else my mom and her 5 brothers found to play with was buried. My mother sometimes wonders how they all made it to adulthood alive.
i have a friend whos summer cottage is near a german mine field and one of his hobbies is to go and search for them with a metal detector
Even today when new buldings and roads are made, German bombs are found. A new department store was built last year and three bombs were found when landscaping the area.
1 thing had to be noted: Finland was the only country in the world to pay all of the war reparations imposed on it.
Do you mean in full? Because other countries did pay as well.
@@mumkinbadbokura Only one to pay in full, and in time.
I imagine their's weren't as high
@@Zen-rw2fz 226,5 millions of USA dollars, that were paid with products as ships and wood etc. Finland had 8 years to pay it, and last shipment was in 1952. The Finnish Markka that was the currency of Finland at the time, its value decreased 50.4% during the war reparations.
@@cocorambo9587 Holy shit thats alot of markas.
Germany was the only one as a nation who was willing to support Finland. Like a lot of countries sent volunteers but a lot of the “good guys” in Europe kinda left Finland for dead.
With how the West treated Poland to be die at the hands of the Nazis and Soviets, it is understandable that Finland would only look after itself if it were to survive.
Exactly. The same happened to Poland and Czechoslovakia. They were left without help.
Brits declared a fucking war on Finland because attacking poor little Russia :D
Hungary sent equipment, weapons, ammo and volunteers. Strangely enough, the germans did everything to block the hungarian shipments, as during the Winter War, Germany was still allied (!!!) with Soviet Russia.
@@dino7307 non agression pact not allied.
My grandma used to remember how in the beginning of Lapland war German soldiers came to their farm, i live in Tornio which happens to be the place where the first major engagement between Finns and Germans happened during the Lapland war. These german soldiers pointed guns at her father, who was already too old to serve in army back then and asked him in broken finnish "why do finns shoot at us" and he had no idea about the treaty that was made between USSR and Finland. Not soon after that the german soldiers left and retreated further north where they started burned ground tactics. They didnt have time to burn a lot of buildings around Tornio but apparently they left traps and mines behind in hurry.
I'm a first generation Finnish-Canadian and heard plenty of stories like that from my grandmother when she was still young. Kind of pushed me to look more into Finnish history both pre-1916 and the decades following up until about the 1950's. There was a lot to go through and unpack from the few places I've been able to read from. Learn something new each time.
@@groundsforkilling yeah its interesting topic for sure, my grandma's uncle was part of the jaeger's who left to Germany during ww1 to be trained and fought in the east against russians in baltics. they returned to Finland back when the civil war had started to fight for the newly formed government.
@@Hoki4 I can't say if I had family involved in the war itself. I just know how my grandmother and her parents were affected by it and that's pretty much where it ends for us.
The Germans did blow up the railway bridge over Kemijoki, and tried to blow up the town hall of Kemi. Someone got a wif about their plan and emptied the water tanks the town hall had in its top floor, and prevented the building from collapsing. It still stands tall to this day
The three powers of WWII: Allies, Axis and Finland
Let me guess, Baka mitai
And Fred
Don't fool yourself; Finland was an Axis power as well.
@@antona.4572 technically they were not. The only reason they were friends with germany for a short time was because they needed some help with soviet union
@@yeet6806 excuses. Any country which was fighting on Germany's side during WW2 was officially a member of the Axis.
We may have lost the Sakkijarvi but at least we still have the polka!
With it even living without a roof is
Säkkijärvi Polka
I'm not Finnish but I love that song, Long Live the Polka!
Polka never dies
Säkkijärven polkka is straight up stuff of legens! no cap.
"Säkkijärvi se meiltä on pois,
Mutta jäi toki sentään polkka!"
Finland’s (small) Jewish community was completely unaffected by the alliance with Germany. The only three Jewish winners of the Iron Cross in WW2 were Finns.
Wouldn't call it completely unaffected. A few were transferred to Germany but only a few. After that they refused to send any
@@cassu6 Those were eight Jewish Austrian refugees and even with those it was national scandal that caused ministers to resign. After that incident there were strict orders that no Jewish refugee or otherwise would be given to the Germans. Finnish Jewish population was never in threat of being given to the Germans. Finnish government did its all to protect Jewish people during the war even if Heimrich Himmler himself tried at least twice to change their minds when he visited Finland.
@TheOfficialUnofficial Ah ok I must've missed something
more on that here. ua-cam.com/video/emgOzd0ng1A/v-deo.html
@@cassu6 The Finnish Secret Police had people who sympathized with the Nazi agenda. The transfer of those eight Austrian refugees was done behind Ryti's back, and he was (allegedly) absolutely livid when he got played by these individuals.
After the war ended, the first place Mannerheim visited was the synagogue in Helsinki.
5:31
I see you, AT-ACT.
Don't think you could hide from me.
AT AT's were used in WW2 by Germany, a German AT-AT ace named Yeeyee Asshaircut destroyed 210 Soviet tanks in the war.
HE KNOWS TOO MUCH
Need to up the grain on it, it looks too defined comparatively
Good eye
Not to be like that but thats an AT-ACT.
It’s very important to know who Finland asked first for help. Sweden, Norway then England, France and America only when those countries abandoned Finland to the Russian bear (also remember they were all League of Nations countries) that Finland was forced to turn to Germany for help.
Finland acted in its own self-interest. If the Soviets didn't start it, then Finland in all probability would have remained neutral. As for Lauri Torni ( Major Larry Thorne, USA, Green Beret) well he rests in Arlington National Cemetary, a son of Finland that became one of ours.
They had to do what was right for its people.
That's why it's the Continuation War
@@TheFront - In that case, they would never have entered the war on the axis' side. They would have remained peaceful and neutral.
@@TheFront what is that intro music? Cus the link in the bio takes me to a channel with multiple music videos and i cant find it
@@boringpolitician the option to remain neutral was thrown out the window when USSR attacked us in 1939, you are with name that seems like from Nordic country, you should understand because Norway and Denmark tried to remain neutral too but that wasnt an option for them. After the Winter War Finnish people were furious at the USSR, wanting back the lands that were lost. We were allmost without foreign aid in Winter War and afterwards due to allied politics and high command caring more for the Swedish Iron ore and Norwegian ports than for Finlands fight againt invading USSR. Germany was 1st nation to provide major aid to Finland post winter war, for military acces through Lapland and with promises for Finland getting their lands back and then some, sparking many with hopes of making "Greater Finland" again like in 1918-1920. Yet Finland even though attacking USSR sparking continuation war never signed triparte pact, what every other German allied nation did and later switched sides sparking Lapland War between Germany and Finland. Through out WW2 Finland acted on its own self interests for the nation and its people, from trying to remain neutral at the start, allying Germany in hopes of revenge and then fighting against Germans in hopes of salvaging desperate losing situation.
you should'nt use straight swastika when talking about nazis. Finland used straight swastika but already since gaining independency in 1918. It didn't have any connections to nazi swastika just like the buddhist swastika.
As the Finnish veteras put it, "We would have allied with the Devil, but the nazis had tanks".
Ai saatana, sori ei sulta vaan tankkeja löydy niin otetaan apua tältä komealta viiksi paholaiselta.
“The Enemy of my Enemy is my [Ally]”…
Theres a very interesting video about finnish jews in ww2, since in finland they didnt get any of their rights taken away, they had all the normal finnish responsebilities which ment they had to fight alongside the nazis against the soviet union, pretty interesting considering some countries wanted to straight up give their jews away and some even paid for it. finnish jews even had synagogues in the war.
pretty interesting stuff.
Actually Finnish Jews were traitors who helped and protected the same Germans who were torturing and gassing their own people. Danish people protected all their Jews and none had to sell out to the enemies.
I love Finland’s role in WW2. It’s just the perfect example of a small country standing up for itself. “Sure we’re probably going to lose but we are going to make you hurt for it”. Another country like this used this tactic was Switzerland, although they weren’t invaded they made it well known that it wasn’t worth the effort
Finland was unique and lucky they weren’t in the heart of Europe like Hungary or Romania and although still strategic, Finland did not have vast oil refineries like Ploesti Romania. What Finland did was badass, Simo Hayha is a legend.
Ok, so Finland was kinda against everyone, but really they were interested in protecting themselves, and were dead right to, and no one done it better than the white death Simo Hayha
Sometimes you just have to be selfish to survive
@@Juhani96 Selfish or sensible in other words?
@@johnryder1713 well, yes
@@Juhani96 Thanks
Not entirely accurate. At the beginning, Finland tried using proper international channels for guarantees and aid in the time of a crisis. A lot of promises were made, especially from the French, but nothing ever came through. The world burned the Finnish trust HARD and thus the naive Finland was no-more for the Continuation War.
UK complained about Swedens lack of co-operation to let supplies through. France only wanted to keep Finland from joining Germany, the US actually sent us some Brewster airplanes that were quite invaluable while the UK even declared war on Finland on behalf of the Soviets.
Among all of this... there's Germany that promises not only an alliance, but actual troops, weapons, supplies, artillery, ammunition and they actually delivered. Would you in this position try to plea with the Allied forces for aid and just keep waiting, hoping the Soviets wouldn't attack in the meanwhile, or would you take the deal with Germans and get actual, concrete assistance?
As a finn myself there's short and easy answear to this question. We were on OUR side. Fighting for our OWN survival.
Fun fact: England declared war on Finland in 1941 but no military action never took place
Ive heard there was a small bombing but nothing major, just to please the russians
Its UK not England
@@Unknown-zg2ge Well after a Quick Google i can see 3 ways people have talked about it. With england, brittain and uk, do you happen to know why its uk and not only england? you sure Wales and scotts were part of it?
@@Vemppu_Lutku Yes, the British airforce bombed Finnish areas a couple times to show support to the Soviets, but the bombed troops were German and the attacks happened prior to the official declaration of war
@@sirjanska9575 are you sure they were germans? I dont think we had many germans in 1939
The three belligerent of the WW II
- The Axis
- The Allied
- The Finland
4th and 5th. Swiss shot every one who came close and Spain was somehow left alone.
Other countries: On whose side u are axis or allies
Finland: *I am the side*
Unique Facts point, I think, that you have a valid point there.
In the Winter War Stalin did not get what he wanted, he wanted all of Finland. Starting off with such a false claim makes me weary of the rest of this.
Right. The credibility of the channel isn't terribly impressive when it can't get something this simple correct.
We should honor the Finn's for defending their country against overwhelming odds of communist hordes
And for protecting Jews
Yes becausw if we wouldnt fight back and get help from the othernations we would speak russian cheers from finland 👍🏻🇫🇮
@@christiandauz3742 Jews didn't need protecting, they weren't at any risk. Stop spreading Soviet propaganda.
@@ripadu._.4108 the soviets weren't nazis, russification wasn't a thing, atleast not like under nazi occupation.
@@Zen-rw2fz there was russification. but it wasnt violent. prime example would be removing the "mongol" name in buryat,kalmykia
The USSR did not get "everything they wanted" in the Winter War. Finland kept its independence. They even created for puppet government for it. And the Soviets would have advanced a lot further if they had not been stopped in 1944.
Great video. I have a suggestion: i would like to see a video about lauri allan törni
Great suggestion!
Sabaton has a great song about him.
@@iliadnetfear2586 yeah i know (soldier of 3 armies) its one of my favorites
Go to 'Biographics' channel.
Finland is allied with forest and snow.
Finland played its cards just right to keep its independence! And the world needs more people like Lauri Törni / Larry Thorne.
Great that you got on this topic, always wanted to see what you have researched
Glad you enjoyed it! We love your feedback. Any suggestions for a future vid?
My mother's parents were from Finland. I do know that my grandfather said that when Nazi Germany came to Finland during the Continuation War, that he had to go into hiding because his first name was Hebrew. When I asked him why Finland accepted help from Germany, he said something along the lines of "The Enemy of my Enemy is my Friend". Finland had it's back to the wall with Russia threatening to invade and wipe the Finnish people off the face of the planet, they didn't really have anyone else who supported Finland. Germany on the other hand knew that a Russia-Occupied Finland meant Russia was within striking distance of Germany.
Fact of the day:
Christopher Lee (a famous actor, known for example Count Dooku) thought of becoming a volunteer during the winter war. He did arrive, but the peace had already been signed by that time.
War was still going on, but none of the Britts were on the front.
They were signed to guard duty far from the line.
@@XtreeM_FaiL thank you for correcting.
Kinda bs that they get punished for trying to take back their own land
Well as they say "history is written by the victors" and we were the losers in that war
Finland did venture past the old borders to places like petrozavodsk which was never really finnish, so the punishment wasn’t really bs
@@kekefan6984 You kind of forget what the USSR had done in the first place... Also it was needed as a buffer zone, after all the USSR was the aggressor that tried to occupy Finland. It would have been stupid not to advance.
@@tyttiMK yeah i guess you are kinda right
Im pretty sure the western allies were well aware of the future tensions with the soviets when the war ended, and I don't think they wanted to poke the bear too much just yet. And insisting that Finland be spared when they had technically just been fighting with their enemies would have been quite the poke.
Gorgeous video, as always. About Finland in WW2 I would like to recall that on November 1st Kaiho Tuomas Albin Gerdt, the last hero of the continuation war, died. RIP Hero.
Finland had a "the enemy of my enemy is my friend" thing going on during WWII
Like the Allies. They weren't ideologically allied with Stalin, were they?
I just wanna say, I love your channel's intro, thank you guys for being so awesome!
If you compare Finnish and Estonian history in WW2, you can see what would've happened if Finland hadn't taken an aggressive stance in defense. Both countries were under attack by both the Axis and the Allies over the course of the war, but only Finland remained independent afterwards. It took until the 90s before Estonia was able to break free from the USSR and become independent, and they're now happily on the fast track to a developed nation. But they lost so much time to Soviet rule. The Swedish or Norwegian strategy of picking a side and non-militarily partaking in the war wouldn't have worked, because neither of the countries were included in the Molotov-Ribbentrop pact division of spheres of influence, existence of which only became known after the Nürnberg trials. So Finland was played but managed to navigate to freedom from being squeezed between two superblocks of military power.
I feel like it's safe to say that Finland was on their own side. They fought whoever posed a threat to their own sovereignty.
Finland did what was needed and what was best for Finland.
were they forced to send SS volunteers?
@@Zen-rw2fz Germany wanted SS volunteers from allied countries and since many saw Germany as undefeatable force many wanted to join
love to see a part 2 into this
League of Nations: "So, whats your allignment?"
Finland: "yes"
Could you cover the Vorkuta Gulag that the Soviets operated from 1932-1962 and go into the stories of American soldiers who were either kidnapped by the Soviets or were POWs from the Korean War?
bruh simple history already made that video
@@JJ-su7re I know, I was hoping this channel could go into more details about the camp and those held captive
@@indianajones4321 fair enough
We would love to do more on the Korean War!
@@TheFront glad to hear it! There are so many stories that not many people know about, one such story is how one-eyed Canadian WW2 veteran Leo Major was able to stop a Chinese advance
It's not like the Germans and Finns were particularly fond of each other. It was Mannerheims goal since 1942 to detach Finland from the war, but we couldn't exactly just quit the war, because then Germany would have invaded us. The alliance with Germany was not only formed because a second attack from the USSR was inevitable, but Finland was also afraid of a German invasion.
So funny as it is, had the USSR not attacked Finland in 1939, they just might have had an ally in Finland when it came to stopping Germany from invading USSR. Had the USSR not attacked, Finland would not have had any reason to side with Germany.
Also, I remeber a particular trick that Finland played on Germany. I think it was the president of Finland who made a written statement to Germamy that they would honour their alliance, but he did not sign it in the name of Finland, but he just signed it himself. In reality, he had no say in who Finland is at war with, so eventually the military command of Finland was technically still free to detach themselvs "legally" and without breaking any promises. I can't remember if that's the exact way it went, but it was something like that.
"So funny as it is, had the USSR not attacked Finland in 1939, they just might have had an ally in Finland when it came to stopping Germany from invading USSR. Had the USSR not attacked, Finland would not have had any reason to side with Germany."
I don't think it would have been that simple. Finland was already somewhat aligned toward Germany for many years, long before the rise of Adolf Hitler. The Soviet Union or Russia has for centuries been the 'natural' and most likely enemy of Finland, this goes back to the days when Finland was a part of Sweden. Russia has always been the greatest foreign state threat and continues to be to this day. Finland would have held onto its neutrality at almost all cost, just like the other Nordic countries did. All but Sweden failed at this.
@@Hazzelnot94 I think I worded my sentence poorly. I didn't mean that Finland would've declared war on Germany, I meant that the USSR would have had an ally in Finland in the sense that Finland wouldn't have allowed Germany to enter the USSR through Finland.
And I don't think Germany and Finland were that close. In the civil war the Germans did help the Whites, but for example Mannerheim was furious that the germans had been called to aid, since the Whites were winning the war already. The cost for Germany's aid was that Finland was to almost become a vassal state for Germany. Germany lost WW1 though, so this never happened.
Finland was on their own side. There was no other way to survive for a small country stuck between fascist totalitarian powers.
I thinl toi should have mentioned, that Finland actually asked the allies for help first, but they didn't help...
Finland was simply fighting for their independence.
The Finns had no choice. The Soviets were bent on taking strategic territory in Finland and just like with all the other small countries in Europe, they learned just how deeply committed(not) Britain and France were to helping those small countries remain free. The Finns asked for troops and weapons and instead got diplomatic notes full of false promises from Britain and France. Sadly, in order to try and remain independent they were forced to cozy up to Nazi Germany, the only powerful country that was willing to actually help them fight the Soviets. The allies were great at promising their support but fell short when it came time to actually do anything. Since the victors write the history, the allies judged Finland harshly mainly to hide the fact that when Finland asked for allied help they did nothing except send letters filled with empty promises.
Everyone kept their promises 25 years earlier. Didn't work out great.
Well, they had. They could have decided either to stay neutral or ally Anglo-Americans, but found reinstating ties with German imperialism more favourable. They even decided to conquer Eastern Karelia despite British imperialists strongly told them refrain from doing so, and eventually declared war in return. Unfortunately for Finns, Sweco-Fennic rulers miscalculated yet again and "Uncle Joe" wrestled even more land off them, pushing Russo / Sweco-Fennic border back westwards roughy to where it once was 500-1000 years ago.
@@morzh1978 Finland was neutral before 1940, and that resulted Soviet Union trying to annex Finland. Not really a good strategy was it?
@@Mahtimeisseli The Soviet Union didn't want to annex Finland.. They could've easily done so after they replaced Voroshilov and broke the Mannerheim line
@@Mahtimeisseli So, the good strategy was to get into yet another war on its own? How good did it end up like?
As a Finn I have to say we did what we had to. I shame nothing about it. Finland was and still is small nation and we should not to be naive. When having war against great superpower you cannot rely on anyone except yourself. WW2 proved it to us. Help your self that the best help at any time.
When a finish tank division has both a Panzer 4 and T-34
True. Not to forget the already outdated but stil glorious T-28.
And don't forget that all of those had big ol' swastikas painted on their right and left side!
Finland did the impossible.
No other country in world had so much balls to fight.
Perhaps it needed balls, but the way I see from the tactics, also a lot of wits. Whereas the Soviets relied on raw force in numbers.
@@Ama-Elaini As always.
Helsinki was one of three combatant European capitals to not be occupied during World War 2, the others being London and Moscow.
Balls to betray the only nation that actually helped defend it. Makes sense
The first part has an error.. Stalin was supposed to have whole of Finland in 2wks, not just parts. That's what they settled for after seeing it would be too costly to run over the whole Finland.
Thanks, this video helped explain the complicated relationship between Finland, Germany and USSR.
Great explanation! ❤️
In the beginning they are "rewriting the history", saying that in the Winter War "Stalin ulimately got what he wanted". Stalin was going to do exactly the same to Finland as to the Baltic countries: take it all, not just some territories at the border. He put up a puppet government for Finland on the first day of the war, in order to annex Finland to Soviet Union - he even had established "The People's Army of Finland" using uniforms stolen from occupied Poland. After the failure of Winter War V. Molotov ( Russian minister of foreign affairs) asked Hitler the permission to "finally solve the Finnish question" in November 1940 in Berlin, but Hitler denied Russia from starting a new war, for reasons that we now well know.
Hitler was like
Njiet Molotov
"After the failure of Winter War V. Molotov ( Russian minister of foreign affairs) asked Hitler the permission to "finally solve the Finnish question" in November 1940 in Berlin"
Heh, Finnish nationalist myths and fairy tales.
Failure?
That was a catastrophe for Finland, they lost 11% of their territory and the second largest city. It was a shock and tragedy.
The myth of losing independence was just a way to sell that loss to the people. That was never in question and that is pretty clear from the published records from the meetings of the Finnish officials before the peace was signed.
And that second myth, Molotov was insisting that German troops leave Finland. And asking Hitler is their agreement still valid. Only Hitler was raging about some war.
@@simplicius11 Ah yes, of course Stalin didn't try to conquer all Finland. It was entirely unrelated that he invented a puppet government and refused to negoagiate with the real Finnish government until there was a real threat of the Western Allies getting involved.
@@rudde7918 The Soviets created that government to put a pressure on Finland to accept their demands. It's simple, you don't want to give us what we need, we have someone that will do that.
Yeah, the Soviets were so scared of the Allied involvement that they placed additional demands in front of the Finnish delegation when they arrived in Moscow.
Keep in mind that the Soviets were pretty well informed about the Allied intentions and that they are not interested in Finland at all.
@@simplicius11 So, you probably have explanation for the orchestra instruments and banners for the victory parade found from the divisions destroyed in Raattee road too? And the "Red Army March Guide Through Finland" booklet found from Russian soldiers? The booklet advised, how to behave at the Swedish border... First half a million troops - then after destruction another half a million....just to "move border a little". Sure😀
As a Finn , yes . It wasnt a choise to ally with Germany, it was a neccessity .
7:23 “The Finnish POWs” is most likely a reference to Ingrian Finns. Ingria is the region around St. Petersburg/Leningrad. It had a large Finnish population up to WWII*. When the Germans conquered the region, they sent the Ingrian Finns to Finland as part of their population transfers and ethnic cleansing. When the war ended the Soviet Union demanded that their citizens be returned. Ingrian Finns returned to their homes in Ingria and got promptly deported all over the USSR as traitors to the motherland. They were allowed to return to their homes after Stalin died. When the USSR was dissolved, Finland offered permanent residency and a path to citizenship to any Ingrian Finn that wanted it. Some 30,000-50,000 people took up on the offer.
* Additional history rabbit hole: Ingria is a traditional living region of Finnic peoples. The oldest of them are the Ingrians/Izhorians, who are not Finns. When Sweden conquered the area in the 17th century, they considered the local Ingrians as untrustworthy, as they were Orthodox, and Sweden was a Lutheran country. Sweden encouraged Finnish immigration into the region to tie it tighter to Sweden. These immigrants became the ancestors of the Ingrian Finns. The original Finnic and Russian residents of Ingria started to emigrate to Russia to get away from Sweden’s religious policies.
Russia reconquered the area in the early 18th century and founded St. Petersburg in the middle of it. The city was for a long time a Russian city surrounded by Finnish and Izhorian countryside. Stalin put an end to that. The Izhorians got it the worst: nowadays there are only a couple hundred speakers of the language left. There were 140,000 Ingrian Finns in the USSR in the 1920s; now there are 19,000 left in Russia, in addition the emigrants to Finland mentioned in the first paragraph.
My grandmother worked as an interpreter between Finish and German officers. Her brother was an officer and also fought side by side with the Germans. He did however take part in Lappland war. I'm very proud of them. It is easy to say how could Finland do this and that? But a fact remains, Finland remained a free nation after the war. Which is not the case for most of the other countries who fought the Soviet Union.
Finland remained a free and democratic nation during the wars as well (Soviet, Soviet, German).
The capital city was never occupied.
My Mothers family lived in lapland. In the 70's a german tourist spilled his Hot Coffee on my Mother while she was in a Cafe with her father. Her father fought though winter war and continuation war and took part of driving germans out of lapland. My Mother Told that he totally flipped, got up and almost beat the german tourist and yelled "first you burn lapland and now my only daughter". Apparently she had never seen him So angry and Apparently the war had left its Mark on the Man. He died of cancer in late 90's, i only have some distant memories of him
Äijä kyllä sanoi kunnon sanat
Ryti made a personal promise that as long as he is the president, Finland wont exit the war. As he stepped down that promise was no longer in affect and Finland could sue for peace.
Also an interesting fact regarding the war of Lappland. The conflict is still in a fresh memory in the minds of local people, mainly in the Northern regions. Had a colleague tell me about how many bars in Rovaniemi are openly against germans, and should any tourists find their way in, they're in risk of getting reminded of the 80 year deeds.
I guess an Australian would call them outback commies. On the other hand, there is also a mausoleum dedicated to the fallen Germans.
@@jussim.konttinen4981 I wouldnt exactly call them commies, they just *really* dislike the germans for reasons most well known to Lappish people.
@@pohjantuulet247 I say, as did Erik Allardt:
en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Erik_Allardt
@@planet_earth936 its often the case in Rural regions where one event can lead to a decade lasting grudge against one another. Its all about Honor and pride of ones Clan.
@@planet_earth936 Hell, even germans hate germans
Nicely informative video.
Stalin only wanting small parts of Finland (and succeeding in taking them) is disputed and unlikely. It is more likely that Stalin wanted all of Finland as either a puppet state or a part of the Union since:
1) Finland was a part of the Russian empire before the Russian Revolution
2) The areas that USSR demanded pre winter war included all the Finnish defence fortifications, so conquering Finland after taking them would be easy
3) Stalin did set up a communist puppet government at Terijoki in Finland during the winter war, it was lead by exiled Finnish communists who had been living in the USSR
4) Stalin later did similar demands to all of the Baltic states, and ended up fully annexing them
5) The Molotov-Ribbentrop pact left all of Finland for the Soviet spehere of influence
6) The Soviet attack plan included taking over the whole country, this might be a bit of an overkill for only small demands.
7) it is likely that the USSR was truly conserned about a potential western European or a German invasion in 1940, and and thus only took some parts of Finland to not anger the western allies too much. And potentially planned to take the rest of Finland later
What i know is that it started because it wanted to defend leningrad from neutral finland but thats just what I heard
The Soviets "just wanted small bits of Finland" just like Russia "just wanted small bits of Ukraine".
Hundreds of years of history fighting against the Russians has taught us a thing or two.
A true survivalist Finland is
Thanks for an awesome video!
Risto Ryti actually gave the place of highest commander to Mannerheim. In Finland the president is the highest commander of army but of course if war would broke out I'm sure Sauli Niinistö (sitting pesident) would leave the job for someone more suiting.
Nice video and mostly real talk.
Finnland was on Finnland’s side
It’s not their fault Germany’s enemy attacked them
Germany's enemies attacked Finland cause Finland was helping Germany but I don't blame Finland cause it had to deal with the devil just to survive.
Damn, I never thought I'd see people defending a country for aiding with the nazis, but here it is!
Also just to be clear, i do agree with you. Finland was just making the best of a crappy situation, and when someone finally offered a helping hand, they took it
Depends on who you ask on how to go forward.
Great video.
Axis, Allies: "Whos side are you on???"
Finland: "no"
Italy: yes
I have read a lot on this over the years and IMO they didnt really have much of a choice caught between a rock and a hard place
Finnland was on Finnland's side
Stalin wanted the whole Finland, and his generals promised him Finland for his birthday. We do know this because that's how the Soviets and the Nazis divided Europe in the Molotov-Ribbentrop pact. Stalin managed to get the other lands dictated by the agreement, such as the Baltic countries. Furthermore, the USSR also kept those lands after the WW2, which verified 100% his intentions. This video seemed to suggest he only wanted the limited areas he demanded from Finland before the war started, but that's just nonsense. The areas he demanded were vital for the defense of Finland, so if they had been given to the USSR, Finland would have been occupied shortly after, just like the Baltic countries.
Liar
@@user-yk2xb1ti2w Yeah. Stalin was quite a liar.
@@herrakaarme all diplomatic correspondence between Finland and Germany was captured by the Soviets in 1945, and Finns with idea of Suur Suomi is not better than Ussr and Germany, wants, part of Finnland, part of Sweden, part of Ussr, and whole Estonia, if Stalin wanted to capture Finland he capable to do that in 1940 and 1945, stop making from Finland a victim
@@user-yk2xb1ti2w I don't need to make Finland anything. If the Soviet Union hadn't attacked Finland in 1939, Finland would have stayed out of the whole war, just like Sweden, provided Germany hadn't attacked Finland in an attempt to expand Barbarossa to the north. In that case Finland would have fought Germany. It's impossible to say how that war would have ended, as nobody knows how much resources Germany would have been willing to dedicate to a war against Finland, seeing how they didn't even have enough forces to send against Russia in the south. What they could dedicate to the north in real history wouldn't have been enough to capture resisting Finland.
After the Winter War, what did you expect to happen? Of course Finland wanted back what it lost, with some compensation. Finland advanced beyond that, to a degree, because only a madman would actually want to fight on their own soil if they have got a choice. The towns and villages of the eastern Finland were largely destroyed during the Winter War. If you select a random person off the street and punch him in the face, don't be surprised if he punches back.
@@herrakaarme At 1939 Germany was your ally that helped you make little genocyde in Finland Civil War 1918, and Finland going to provide Germany to attack Ussr from Finland soil in exchenge of further conquests. Finland did not agree to provide rent of couple islands, did not agree to exchange territories with Ussr that was three times more. There will be peace if Finland would agree. In other case if Ussr did not start this war, Ussr would lost war againts Finland and Germany, and Hitlers Germany still exists, yes Finland was twice larger, but the price for this for whole world ould be horrible.
5:36 I see the Germans had some advanced weaponry
Those are Finnish soldiers not German.
@@roskcity He means the AT AT in the background
@@apilolomi4354 I know but he said the Germans had not Finnish.
The late great Christopher Lee was sent to Finland as part of a British task force in the winter war. Finland also had mobile synagogues within its army & as far as I’m aware never enacted anti Jewish laws requested by the Nazis. They were abandoned by the west due to politics. They had no choice. The enemy of my enemy is my friend. I’m not Finnish, but have always viewed Finland as the underdog, used & abused, they held their ground, and no one can blame them for that.
It's funny that the Allies never look critically on allying with Stalin to get rid of Hitler.
Much respect to the Finnish people. Dealt some really bad cards and yet made the best of it!
As grandpa used to say " We were extremely lucky that we dont have to speak German nor Russian here." Referring to the fact that Finland kind of fought Russian, German and Allied at some point, but somehow came out on top.
Your grandpa was wrong. Finland allied with Germany and fought America, Russia, Uk and the rest of the allies. But I don't blame Finland cause it was in between 2 evil forces- Germany and Soviet Union.
You should make and about Romania a video like that one!Great video anyway!Keep it going!!!
Thanks for the idea!
@@TheFront you're welcome!Keep the great work done!!!
@@ionutserbanat2502 My friend here in Finland is from Romania and his name is Ionut lol.
@@roskcity that's what I call coincidence:))!I salute you all finnish people!!!🇷🇴🇷🇴🇷🇴🇫🇮🇫🇮🇫🇮
7:00 ah yes the lie I was expecting. Lauri Törni and his SS-platoon did not take part in the war crimes of other SS-platoons and batallions. Infact he did not know of the autrocities of the Nazi party and he was disgusted at himself when he later on found out after the war. Do proper research when talking about sensitive topics such as this.
Finland: Hey the soviets are invading us, UK Wanna help.
UK: No sorry They are kinda our allies.
Finland: The soviets are still trying to invade us, Anyone wanna help?
Everyone: ....
Finland: I mean, the soviets are really invading us...
Germany: Ok, ok, We help you, but you gotta help us.
Finland: Well our president kinda promises to help you without any authority to do so...
Germany: Deal.
Finland in WWII was basically just screaming "perkele" in the corner while holding a pistol
"perkele. PERKELE! AUTTAKAA NYT JOKU JUMALAUTA"
*points gun at everyone in the room
*Nazi Germany takes a step forward
"Ehei vittu... No on mitä on. Näillä mennään.."
Its good to note that only three capital in Europe that took part in war were never occupied by hostile forces: London, Moscow and Helsinki(capital of Finland). As amazing it is, Finland is same league with Great Britain and Soviet Union in this regard.
As the old man once said “there is no ever lasting alliance, there is ever lasting national interest” so they were on their own side for right or wrong.
I was aware. Fins only fought beside Germans because they feared the Russians more. Mom was Finnish and Dad was Polish. I'm a crazy lucky dude.
There were other crucial things that happened, before Finland turned completely to German aid. After the Winter War there was an effort to create a Nordic defence alliance. This plan was off the table after Germany had taken both Denmark and Norway. After this Finland and Sweden were both surrounded on every side by the two totalitarian states, except for a small, Finnish port called Liinahamari towards the Arctic sea. The next thing Finland tried was to suggest an alliance, even a union, with Sweden. The idea was that together they would stay neutral. The Swedish government would go along with it only if Moscow and Berlin accepted the plan, which neither of them did. After that there wasn't many alternatives left. The Finnish government had zero trust in the USSR, especially after the Soviets took over in the Baltic states. France was lost, the US had still not entered the war, and Britain was in big trouble. Then Germany opened up for secret negotiations, and there it was.
Love how he didint even think to mention the fact that the allies promised to defend Finland from Russia but that didint go nowhere and we asked Germany for help and they helped us. We didint care for Allies or the Axis we only cared to keep our independence and nothing else. If we would have surrenderd fully to Russia we would have lost our independence for sure. So anyone saying Finland was on the Axis power is severly wrong if you dont mention the fact i just stated above.
@@CipiRipi00 Who liberated Poland? Don't be so ungrateful. The Allies did failed Finland who asked for help but got none.
@@CipiRipi00 Stalin was evil and a rabid colonizer- true. Still you can't compare the Germans with the Soviets. The Soviets were the lesser of 2 evils. I have never ever heard nor read of Soviet soldiers picking and gathering babies and small children just to molest, torture and gas them. German soldiers did and managed to torture and gas millions and millions of babies and small children- that's pure diabolical.
Stuck between a rock and a hard place when you have the Nazis and the Stalinist Russians both trying to use you.
Finland had two choices in 1940-1941, to either defend itself alone against the inevitable "Evil Empire Strikes Back" AKA the Soviet Union or to get help from where ever it could to be able to successfully defend itself. The Western allies proved to be indifferent and would provide no real help, only speeches, rhetoric and toasts to Finland for defending themselves so well against the Goliath to the east. The west wrote Finnish off as an unfortunate loss at best. Finland had to sign up with one devil in order to fight another devil, no different than what the Allies did in signing up with Stalin.
It's really difficult to understand from Brittish, American or French perspective but second wolrd war was not only a war that the nazis started and a war where nazis were defeated. Second world war was also a war where Japan and Soviet Union started an agressive war for expansion. Finland was the only European country bordering soviet union left unconquered when the war was done. Second world war was not only a war against Nazi dictatorship, it was also a war against communist dictatorship and the war against communism was mostly lost leaving half of Europe under soviet regime for more than a half a century. A tragedy that still causes a lot of problems in Eastern Europe even today. Also Finland did beg to join the Allied forces in 1939, but The Allied were not interested, germany was the only country to help Finland in it's hour of need and we are deeply grateful for Germany's aid in the second world war as we are grateful for the help against communists in the aftermath of the first world war. Without Germany Finland would have fell under dictatorship of Stalin.
As a finn I know alot. I suggest checking the movie called tuntematon sotilas or in english unknown soldier.
Its based on the book by the same name has 3 movie iderations. Im not just sure does the movie have an english subtitled version available.
Its a good book/movie(s) and anti-war.
Simply put W. Churchill knew England could not defeat Nazi Germany without Russia's aid and sacrificed eastern Europe to Communist Russia. England promised military aid to Finland but used the excuse that the northern ports were frozen and did not deliver so as to not offend the Soviets. In the end Churchill praised the Finns as being the only Soviet border country to maintain their freedom. England's historians often portray Finland as an ally of the Nazis to hide the facts of this war within a war.
Bro can you make the Battle of yultong in the korean war were 900 Philippine soldiers fight 4000 Chinese
4000 or 40,000?
One thing to note is that Finland did not take part in Hitler’s plan for the jews. Finnish jews fought instead in the Finnish army and some of them were actually honored with German iron crosses. They also had their own field synagogue.
Actually Ryti had promised to Ribbentrop that as long as he was president Finland wouldnt have a separate peace with the USSR. (Ryti-Ribbentrop agreement)
Once the front was stabilized Ryti resigned and Mannerheim was appointed, which meant finland could make a peace with the USSR.