I am sooooo so glad that I learned this from you from the very start because I have always had one package and it's allowed me to only book couples who VALUE me and ultimately grow as quickly as I have in just 4 short years! First wedding was $850 (9/2019) and I am now booking $4300 weddings!
@@KatelynJames Awesome video!!!!! What would you recommend charging using this pricing structure if you are an experienced event photographer but new to weddings specifically?
As a newly starting out photographer I found this truly helpful. I think pricing is one of the hardest parts of this job, but it shouldn't be. I think with the emotions attached to photos we sometimes forget we are proving a service and deserve to be paid appropriately. Great, simple video.
Omg! This is so true. I’ve done about 15 “6 hour coverage” packages and it always turns into an 8 hour day. Hard but valuable lesson learned. Thanks. This video definitely puts things into perspective.
When I would tell my Mom about people wanting more than they could afford regarding photography, she'd say "Tell her to take a selfie." LOL she was in her 70's when she said that. RIP Mom, she was married to a professional, PPA Master photographer for 50 years (my Dad). We miss her so much, she could make us laugh at how exasperating the photography business can be.
You need to tell them you have 30 minutes left, do you want we to stay, it is a $100 per hour, what do you want to do? If no answer or no agreement to pay the extra leave. Stick to the agreed contract. I have done a few free jobs and i am stick of people either complaining or wanting more. No proper business or tradie would do extra for free.
THANK YOU FOR THIS!! Now that this year's wedding season is over I'm restructuring a lot of things, and my pricing is one of them. I currently offer three packages and experience exactly what you described (brides trying to fit a whole day into 6 hours or trying to take out the engagement session for a discount) on a frequent basis! I have been wanting to switch to one package offering, and this information just confirmed that decision for me!
This is the first video I have seen from you and about 1 minute in, I had a really good feeling about you. Thanks for being genuine, kind, and thorough! Definitely got me thinking about how I can adjust my offerings to not only streamline my booking process but also de-stress my client experience.
Honestly I appreciate this input so much. I've been trying to decide on whether or not to just do one full package, cause even I personally feel that the multiple packages can be confusing. And I'm a very simple person and want to give my client the best possible of course. So thank you for this. You've helped me make up my mind.
"You gave it to them for free." -KJ "Working with a client they never wanted to work with." -KJ This hit me soo hard! I currently have 3 wedding packages and of my 5 weddings this year 1 was my highest package and the rest fell in my cheapest package. 2 of those weddings were legit mini weddings and were short, sweet and to the point (ideal clients)... The other two left me in extremely uncomfortable situations where I worked my ass off and still ended up working some hours for free with clients I didn't want to work with. I was getting ready to publish my website this week and it is safe to say that I will be delaying that until I update my pricing. Such a great video and about a topic I don't see other photographers talking about!
Im late but this makes ALOT of sense. Here I was offering 4 different packages for weddings. I think it is smart to just offer one. It is easier on me and also stress free on the client
Who stays longer for free?! If I'm booked for 8 hours and they want me to stay an additional two hours to fit everything in, those two hours are added to the final bill. I would've never thought of just staying longer for free. Honestly, I'm shocked people do that. Don't! This is your valuable time (and money!). Make sure your contract reflects that additional hours will have to be paid!
Agree! I make it very clear on our Zoom dates that if anything goes over time by a hour...I'll send an invoice. They're fully aware. Communication and clarity is so very helpful to them
I've also never had packages! I have "Base Coverage" which is all day coverage as determined by photographer/second/files - always been that way! I have engagement sessions and albums as an extra. I also offer a third shooter as an add-on for weddings with really tough timelines (I have a regular second/assistant but we stick together and sometimes the men and ladies are getting ready too far apart). The only downside is, I do occasionally have lovely couples who come to me and only want 2-3-5-6 hours - but that's not the KWP experience and it's not profitable for me! ESP in Pittsburgh where the wedding season is short. I also don't want someone to book a 6 hour and then have the chance to book a 10 hour later but can't! So it's all day or the highway around here. :)
I don't see a link listed as the "pricing guide." Did you forget to post it or am I just missing it? I love this video and love that you actual tell us things others are so hush hush about. How do we learn if no one shares, right? :)
Awesome input Katelyn! Thanks. I'm looking into shooting weddings next year, but I won't do it for a small budget, because I've got so much other work already. It wouldn't make sense. But making a big package deal that is non negotiable and add both a second photographer and or a videographer, it makes a lot of sense! Thanks!
This is true.. :) Right now though in NY many people are not having traditional 8 hours weddings .and catering hall weddings are rarer to book.. . I have been booking 5 hours consistently this year.. If we need an extra hour they pay the day of
I've definitely been doing the cheaper packages and then I end up with people wanting even more than I was already giving. This was definitely the push I needed to stop it. Thank you!
Yasss to this video, Katelyn! Thank you for validating what I have been feeling this past 3 years in my photography journey. As a boudoir photographer there are so many ways I can offer my services, and it has been exhausting finding one that works, thats simple not only for me but for my clients. Simplicity is KEY! love this. and will def apply all these nuggets. Thank you Katelyn!
We don't offer less than 8 hours except in RARE occasions. However, we DO offer packages, and it has worked great for us. And of those that have booked our 8 hour package, about 60-70% end up paying for more time at our hourly rate, and basically end up paying the next package amount anyway, with less deliverables. I think it comes down to how you educate you client as the authority, and explain why they need the extra time, and how it will benefit them in the end.
All this does is make your customers feel that they're being ripped off. Package prices work in the UK. It's only in the USA that customers are so so so picky and moany. I wouldn't shoot a wedding in the USA for love nor money.
Good discussion Katelyn. I am long past doing weddings now but back then I probably should have done this.The idea of a small low key wedding is a bit of a "furphy". I had about 3 packages but one would have been better.
I'm going through this with a wedding coming up. They should have booked my 8 hour package and I already told the bride I have enough time to get any details at this one. I'm definitely going to be restructuring, like...now!
It's a great explanation, but here's the key: Not everyone is able to be her client. You have to listen to what she is and isn't saying. She also has a fully fleshed out structure with backups built into kit. When you get to 10 years in the business, you will have your own structure. Your pricing structure won't match KJ's, because ... you're not KJ, and she isn't you. Key point: Take her opinion and add it to your knowledge base. If you are doing your first wedding, you probably should not be charging her pricing and packages.
I never understood 4 or 6 hour wedding session thing. Who in their right mind is going to shoot TWO WEDDINGS on the same day? That seems waaay more stressful. Just charge more per wedding!
THREE HOURS FOR FREE?! Yikes. I'm new to this industry, and I'm happy to stay for an extra 15 minutes. But going into the wedding I have a timeline set out so the couple knows what they are and aren't getting coverage of. And if things fall off the rails in terms of timeline, that's in my contract too - that day of they can add time, and what the rate is. But going into the day, the couple are aware of when I'm leaving...and the cost of extending should they choose to do so.
KJ is 1000 percent right. When you price low, you will be asked to stay longer and if you truly care about your work, you will stay longer and when you divide what you charged into an hourly rate, including editing, you will actually lose money. The second shooter in today’s environment is practically mandatory. We not only shoot weddings, but all events, along with Videography/live streaming and it has become more apparent in our business model to outsource some of our editing to meet deadlines and to become more efficient especially now having city contracts. We have been through what KJ described and you will become disappointed with yourself and even contemplate quitting. The people that you get in on the cheap will always want more for less and they won’t be long term clients, but the expectation by them will be the same as your more expensive clients. Never cut yourself short. Because in the long run, you will hate yourself for it. Let your work and professionalism speak for itself. If you noticed KJ said, the price is the price, which sets expectations for both her and the client.
Thank you. This is something I struggled with as a photographer/videographer. The imposter syndrome. I know my work is great but I had to grow to get there in my own mind.
I haven't stayed for free or been asked to. I've had clients add on the day of, BUT boy have I had lots of clients asking me to do way too much in too little time with improper wedding planning...
My particular city tends to have much shorter weddings. Where the bride gets ready at their hotel and then only on location for about 3 hours. Most of the weddings I have done have been extremely laid back as well. Where they just wanted the core elements captured. I tend to be extremely efficient so knocking those out in 3 hours isn't that difficult for me. I actually did a 3 hour and a two hour wedding yesterday.
I get this philosophy but it has bit me in the backside. You offer everything at a price, but they say i only want this or just go somewhere else after talking to you. Not everyone wants or can afford your one stop package. I am going to move from a complete one stop package to multiple packages. I don't think this works until you have a well established reputation.
You are so on-point and brilliant. Thank you for sharing your heart out and for helping me and others. I've been looking to get out of the "pricing dead zone." I'm off now to get your kit :)
Your business content has been genuinely sooo helpful, literally the biggest game changer!! I’ve done photography for 7 years on and off because the business side of it has just been so stressful for me. But thanks to you I’m learning that there are ways to do it without feeling like I’m stretching in every direction to my breaking point 😅
What wonderful information you've provided. Simple and clear and I totally understand your digital file offer. I've been a second shooter a few times (it was hard work and educational) and I have one question: Do you offer a certain number of edited photos on your digital file?
Love the idea of engagement sessions in order to get to know the couple better and be comfortable. Thank you so much for this video! Definitely taking notes.. 🧡
Love the video but in the uk people want to see the price and the fact that its not on website means its a crazy amount and they are not interested, and thats so true, hearing you quote your prices of £3,000+ ? (only crazy where i live, sorry lol) People aren't stupid and not showing price is a red flag over here ! merry christmas and new year ! big fan !!
I'm just going through the comments and reviewing them.... What pricing do you give for what they call a "Justice of the Peace" wedding... that may be an hour of your time at most? Do you post that price as well?
@@FeedScrn No, for those that would like a more bespoke package, I tell them to get in touch with further details. My point is that by seeing the prices of my main packages they will be aware of the price range I cover which above all shows transparency and my ability to build a package unique to them, within the packages they can see.
This pricing structure could be applied to other genres of photography like senior portraits. Because as a senior portrait photographer, a senior session should really not take longer than 2 or 2 1/2 hours, they get tired of the session when it's longer than that and so does the photographer. So you just price senior portraits at one price or you'll have people doing you like they do my Dad, trying to order 1 -4x6 of another pose. I told him, there should be a minimum they have to pay to order another image, like that other woman on UA-cam says to do, it's 35.00 and you can have any size up to an 8x10. Because you have to edit the image and retouch it, a single 4x6 is not worth it. My Dad also does too much for people without charging them, I always tell him, you need to charge something when they ask for something that wasn't included because it's your time.
@@KatelynJames Thank you Katelyn for this photography business education, there's lots of videos about the technical side of photography and not enough regarding things like pricing.
I agree with this approach. I'm getting ready to start doing weddings for money, and my first thought was, I'm spending a day on this regardless of the time I'm actually there shooting. No point in offering partial days for less money. I can't fill that time with anything else. It's just giving up money and restricting what I can do. Charge for extras hours, sure. Do less than 8 hours, no. I've also given in on the digital files. It's what most people want. I hate digital files. No guarantee they'll print them well, or at all. I'm thinking of including some "mandatory" prints with the files. I'm also thinking of including affordable prints that still make a profit, but don't need a massive markup since I'll already have my profit baked into my base offering. The idea of doing all that work only to have people viewing the images a phone kills me. Low res social media images, sure. Whipping out a phone to show house guests wedding pictures, please no.
I have a question about the complementary engagement shoot. If I understand correctly, it is only complementary because they are booking you for the wedding. So, if they do the engagement shoot and do not use you for the wedding, they do have to pay for the engagement session right?
I just started a photography business recently and I had someone suggest that I offer wedding packages. I want to consider what others suggest as I am still learning and growing, but I know that I don’t want to give anyone any less than the whole day for their wedding because I want them to have the whole story of their wedding day as you said. Thank you so much for sharing this! Your video really puts things into perspective for me! 😊
Hey Katelyn, always very insightful to watch one of your videos. While watching thi I was wondering what is the lighting setup for your youtube videos because it is just sooo pleasant.
I wish I could do weddings in my country... I mean, I could but in my country, the whole wedding photography experience is really, really bad and stressful - as 90% of my clients would be spoiled, egotistic, arrogant, really disrespectful and over-demanding people who also have a superiority complex - and this is coming from someone who is hard to annoy and anger and who is generally a really outgoing, calm and very friendly person. I know 6 photographers who do weddings here, all of them are in their late 20's and all of them already have grey hairs and stomach issues from all the stress... Sure, it may pay more a month than my portraiture and event work but for me, the stress and the amount of work (and the type of people) are not worth that money - you would have to offer me five digit sums PER JOB, for me to even start thinking about starting doing wedding photography here.
Hi..wonderful content and very informative..my question or topic is about second photographers..the thing is do you look for one that has similar styles creatively as yourself..I ask that because shooting by yourself you have full creative control and your creative eye..what if the second photographer doesn't capture moments like yourself?..the help with other moments and different perspective is understandable...so basically my question is how do you choose a second photographer..and how do you handle lets say photo credit?..lets say the second photographer captures such a better moment and photos?.. upstage the primary photographer?.. maybe upstage isn't the correct word?..but that example scenario?..I guess at the end of the day a good second photographer is there to help and compliment the primary photographer?
Ms. James, just for clarification. the KJ Pricing Guide has your base/non-negotiable pricing as well as all of your available options? This is Genius!!!
Hi Katelyn, Just a couple of quick questions. I have just about all your courses except the Pricing Guide because I do not have the software. My question is, how do you respond when a potential client loves your package, but wants to remove the engagement session and drop the cost, or the second shooter or wants a discount?
KJ, I have no problem with wedding photographers releasing digital files to clients. 1) Curious, are you releasing medium- or high-res jpegs or something else? 2) Do you or your client retain the copyrights to your captured wedding images? 3) If the client is granted a limited, non-commercial digital print & display license and you retain the copyrights, do you timely register your wedding images with the US Copyright Office? Thanks.
@@KatelynJames KJ, you’ve confused my question/answer with another person’s; I’m not Sid. Again, here is my comment and questions: KJ, I have no problem with wedding photographers releasing digital files to clients. 1) Curious, are you releasing medium- or high-res jpegs or something else? 2) Do you or your client retain the copyrights to your captured wedding images? 3) If the client is granted a limited, non-commercial digital print & display license and you retain the copyrights, do *you timely register your wedding images with the US Copyright Office?* Thanks.
I’m confused by releasing ‘digital files’ Surely you mean jpeg and not raw and what wedding photographers in this social media age doesn’t release jpegs?
I don’t have a second shooter so I only do smaller weddings. I let them know up front what I can and cannot do. But I have been guilty for staying over because the “band” was late or whatever reason.
Sorry may be off topic. How do you deal with families at weddings not getting along? Other side hires their own photographer and videographer and we are tripping over each other fighting for spots.
New subscriber so don’t know who Michael is but I assume your husband or someone close to you. Would you still hire a second shooter if you had to pay another photographer? Might be hard to get good resources for every booking I would think. Totally see the advantage just seems difficult to pull off if you don’t 100% trust the second shooter.
I agree about the eight hours Katelyn. I do wedding videography, and I always want to deliver a product I'm proud of, and with less than 8 hours, I would be disadvantaging myself and the client.
All of these ideas have been floating in my mind. Your video helped solidify them just in time to update my plans for 2022. Over the winter I plan to dig in to your paid material.
What do you think about offering 4-hour cheaper packages in order to get more experience and portfolio material? With the intent of leveling up to the higher level after that? I'm not planning to increase prices incrementally. My plan is to out-compete other photographers on price (my quality and communication is really a steal), and then jump up to the high-end prices once I'm confident I can deliver on that. The idea is that very little people are in the market for mid-range. People are either on a slim budget and want the cheapest they can find, or they have aa huge budget and want to really invest in great photography. Maybe I'm wrong though?
I am sooooo so glad that I learned this from you from the very start because I have always had one package and it's allowed me to only book couples who VALUE me and ultimately grow as quickly as I have in just 4 short years! First wedding was $850 (9/2019) and I am now booking $4300 weddings!
Love this Courtney!! Thanks for watching!
That’s amazing!!
@@KatelynJames Awesome video!!!!! What would you recommend charging using this pricing structure if you are an experienced event photographer but new to weddings specifically?
As a newly starting out photographer I found this truly helpful. I think pricing is one of the hardest parts of this job, but it shouldn't be. I think with the emotions attached to photos we sometimes forget we are proving a service and deserve to be paid appropriately. Great, simple video.
Thanks for watching!
Omg! This is so true. I’ve done about 15 “6 hour coverage” packages and it always turns into an 8 hour day. Hard but valuable lesson learned. Thanks. This video definitely puts things into perspective.
Thanks for sharing Kayla!
When I would tell my Mom about people wanting more than they could afford regarding photography, she'd say "Tell her to take a selfie." LOL she was in her 70's when she said that. RIP Mom, she was married to a professional, PPA Master photographer for 50 years (my Dad). We miss her so much, she could make us laugh at how exasperating the photography business can be.
You need to tell them you have 30 minutes left, do you want we to stay, it is a $100 per hour, what do you want to do? If no answer or no agreement to pay the extra leave. Stick to the agreed contract. I have done a few free jobs and i am stick of people either complaining or wanting more. No proper business or tradie would do extra for free.
THANK YOU FOR THIS!! Now that this year's wedding season is over I'm restructuring a lot of things, and my pricing is one of them. I currently offer three packages and experience exactly what you described (brides trying to fit a whole day into 6 hours or trying to take out the engagement session for a discount) on a frequent basis! I have been wanting to switch to one package offering, and this information just confirmed that decision for me!
The pricing kit would be really helpful and goes into more detail! Thanks for watching!
This is the first video I have seen from you and about 1 minute in, I had a really good feeling about you. Thanks for being genuine, kind, and thorough! Definitely got me thinking about how I can adjust my offerings to not only streamline my booking process but also de-stress my client experience.
Wow, thank you!
Yes! Katelyn is a really great teacher. Right to the point and in a warm, natural way.
Honestly I appreciate this input so much. I've been trying to decide on whether or not to just do one full package, cause even I personally feel that the multiple packages can be confusing. And I'm a very simple person and want to give my client the best possible of course. So thank you for this. You've helped me make up my mind.
life-saver. I was really getting overwhelmed with pricing and you're so right. SIMPLICITY!! Thanks, Katelyn for this nugget!
Thanks so much for watching!
your voice is so soothing. as someone with mad adhd i find myself so entranced in what your saying. really helpful thankyou
Haha, thank you! I'm glad you found it helpful!
"You gave it to them for free." -KJ
"Working with a client they never wanted to work with." -KJ
This hit me soo hard! I currently have 3 wedding packages and of my 5 weddings this year 1 was my highest package and the rest fell in my cheapest package. 2 of those weddings were legit mini weddings and were short, sweet and to the point (ideal clients)... The other two left me in extremely uncomfortable situations where I worked my ass off and still ended up working some hours for free with clients I didn't want to work with. I was getting ready to publish my website this week and it is safe to say that I will be delaying that until I update my pricing.
Such a great video and about a topic I don't see other photographers talking about!
Thanks for sharing Justin! Glad it was helpful!
Im late but this makes ALOT of sense. Here I was offering 4 different packages for weddings. I think it is smart to just offer one. It is easier on me and also stress free on the client
Who stays longer for free?! If I'm booked for 8 hours and they want me to stay an additional two hours to fit everything in, those two hours are added to the final bill. I would've never thought of just staying longer for free. Honestly, I'm shocked people do that. Don't! This is your valuable time (and money!). Make sure your contract reflects that additional hours will have to be paid!
Agree! I make it very clear on our Zoom dates that if anything goes over time by a hour...I'll send an invoice. They're fully aware. Communication and clarity is so very helpful to them
Thanks for watching!
i do exactly that and it works fine. you need a certain finesse with your clients and dont sell yourself short, than its not really a problem.
I've also never had packages! I have "Base Coverage" which is all day coverage as determined by photographer/second/files - always been that way! I have engagement sessions and albums as an extra. I also offer a third shooter as an add-on for weddings with really tough timelines (I have a regular second/assistant but we stick together and sometimes the men and ladies are getting ready too far apart).
The only downside is, I do occasionally have lovely couples who come to me and only want 2-3-5-6 hours - but that's not the KWP experience and it's not profitable for me! ESP in Pittsburgh where the wedding season is short. I also don't want someone to book a 6 hour and then have the chance to book a 10 hour later but can't! So it's all day or the highway around here. :)
Love it Kristen!
I don't see a link listed as the "pricing guide." Did you forget to post it or am I just missing it? I love this video and love that you actual tell us things others are so hush hush about. How do we learn if no one shares, right? :)
So sorry! You can check it out here: geni.us/kj-pricing-guide
Awesome input Katelyn! Thanks.
I'm looking into shooting weddings next year, but I won't do it for a small budget, because I've got so much other work already. It wouldn't make sense.
But making a big package deal that is non negotiable and add both a second photographer and or a videographer, it makes a lot of sense!
Thanks!
Thanks for watching!
Oh my gosh this is so great! I haven't shot a wedding before, BUT I think this is soooo applicable to any photography job. WOW! Great insight!
Thanks for sharing Alex!
That’s the real expert that you have to listen to
Great video
Thanks for watching!
You're amazing ❤ Great value in you're videos!
This is true.. :) Right now though in NY many people are not having traditional 8 hours weddings .and catering hall weddings are rarer to book.. . I have been booking 5 hours consistently this year.. If we need an extra hour they pay the day of
Thanks for watching!!
I've definitely been doing the cheaper packages and then I end up with people wanting even more than I was already giving. This was definitely the push I needed to stop it.
Thank you!
Very interesting. I have 2 packages. 6 & 8 hours. But this makes so much sense. I’ve actually never heard of only having 1 package.
We have done it this way for over 10 years and teach it to all of our students!
I just came across your videos today. Great content and great vibe. Thank you! Love it.
Awesome! Thank you!
Wow I’ve never even thought about it like this before! Seriously going to consider changing my pricing structure. Thanks for sharing this Katelyn!
Glad it was helpful!
Yasss to this video, Katelyn! Thank you for validating what I have been feeling this past 3 years in my photography journey. As a boudoir photographer there are so many ways I can offer my services, and it has been exhausting finding one that works, thats simple not only for me but for my clients. Simplicity is KEY! love this. and will def apply all these nuggets. Thank you Katelyn!
Awesome Layra! Thanks for sharing!
This is NEEDED. Very valuable info. Thank you for this. This also applies to other types of photography.
Thanks Kyle!
We don't offer less than 8 hours except in RARE occasions. However, we DO offer packages, and it has worked great for us. And of those that have booked our 8 hour package, about 60-70% end up paying for more time at our hourly rate, and basically end up paying the next package amount anyway, with less deliverables. I think it comes down to how you educate you client as the authority, and explain why they need the extra time, and how it will benefit them in the end.
Thanks for sharing! Glad that works for you guys!
Love this!! You were reading my mind because I 100% needed to hear this!! Thank you!!
Awesome! Love to hear that!
So so true. Same for planners.
Thanks for sharing Sara!
I really love this breakdown- thank you for being honest/transparent about your thoughts behind it!
You are so welcome!
All this does is make your customers feel that they're being ripped off. Package prices work in the UK. It's only in the USA that customers are so so so picky and moany. I wouldn't shoot a wedding in the USA for love nor money.
Thanks for watching!
Thank you for this! I wish I knew sooner but it’s always a growth opportunity💛
Absolutely!! Thanks for watching!
Good discussion Katelyn. I am long past doing weddings now but back then I probably should have done this.The idea of a small low key wedding is a bit of a "furphy". I had about 3 packages but one would have been better.
Thanks for sharing Geoff!
I’m amazed to hear a pro say they don’t feel comfortable shooting a wedding on their own
Thanks for watching!
I'm going through this with a wedding coming up. They should have booked my 8 hour package and I already told the bride I have enough time to get any details at this one. I'm definitely going to be restructuring, like...now!
Love it!!
It's a great explanation, but here's the key: Not everyone is able to be her client.
You have to listen to what she is and isn't saying. She also has a fully fleshed out structure with backups built into kit. When you get to 10 years in the business, you will have your own structure.
Your pricing structure won't match KJ's, because ... you're not KJ, and she isn't you.
Key point: Take her opinion and add it to your knowledge base. If you are doing your first wedding, you probably should not be charging her pricing and packages.
Thanks for watching Creighton!
This was great!!!! Thank you!
Glad you liked it!
Thanks for making this video. Your channel is so helpful!
Thanks so much Kindra! That is very encouraging!
This is such a great video!! Learnt a lot
Glad it was helpful!
I LOVE this concept. Looks like I'll have to change a few things on my website 👏🏼
Thanks for watching phoebe!
Absolutely spot on.
Thanks Jared!
Damn I had never thought of it this way but this is genius
Thanks for watching!!
I don’t have set hours with set prices on my website either. I too give jpeg files.
I never understood 4 or 6 hour wedding session thing. Who in their right mind is going to shoot TWO WEDDINGS on the same day? That seems waaay more stressful. Just charge more per wedding!
Totally Agree Joseph!!
THREE HOURS FOR FREE?! Yikes. I'm new to this industry, and I'm happy to stay for an extra 15 minutes. But going into the wedding I have a timeline set out so the couple knows what they are and aren't getting coverage of. And if things fall off the rails in terms of timeline, that's in my contract too - that day of they can add time, and what the rate is. But going into the day, the couple are aware of when I'm leaving...and the cost of extending should they choose to do so.
Totally Agree!
I love This! More business content please!
I’ve always struggled with upselling to full day weddings. This makes so much more sense.
Thanks for watching!! We will do more business content!
Great stuff! Thank you!
Thanks for watching!
So Katelyn, let me get this straight: you do NOT take on a client unless they book you for AT LEAST 8 hours?
KJ is 1000 percent right. When you price low, you will be asked to stay longer and if you truly care about your work, you will stay longer and when you divide what you charged into an hourly rate, including editing, you will actually lose money. The second shooter in today’s environment is practically mandatory. We not only shoot weddings, but all events, along with Videography/live streaming and it has become more apparent in our business model to outsource some of our editing to meet deadlines and to become more efficient especially now having city contracts.
We have been through what KJ described and you will become disappointed with yourself and even contemplate quitting. The people that you get in on the cheap will always want more for less and they won’t be long term clients, but the expectation by them will be the same as your more expensive clients. Never cut yourself short. Because in the long run, you will hate yourself for it. Let your work and professionalism speak for itself. If you noticed KJ said, the price is the price, which sets expectations for both her and the client.
Thanks so much Sid!!
Thank you. This is something I struggled with as a photographer/videographer. The imposter syndrome. I know my work is great but I had to grow to get there in my own mind.
Thanks for watching!
I haven't stayed for free or been asked to. I've had clients add on the day of, BUT boy have I had lots of clients asking me to do way too much in too little time with improper wedding planning...
Totally understand!
My particular city tends to have much shorter weddings. Where the bride gets ready at their hotel and then only on location for about 3 hours. Most of the weddings I have done have been extremely laid back as well. Where they just wanted the core elements captured. I tend to be extremely efficient so knocking those out in 3 hours isn't that difficult for me. I actually did a 3 hour and a two hour wedding yesterday.
How do you represent this in your website?😊
When you say digital files I’m assuming you mean the edited ones correct?
Correct
I get this philosophy but it has bit me in the backside. You offer everything at a price, but they say i only want this or just go somewhere else after talking to you. Not everyone wants or can afford your one stop package. I am going to move from a complete one stop package to multiple packages. I don't think this works until you have a well established reputation.
Super helpful!
So glad!
Brilliantly explained
Thanks!!
I'm a professional looking to grow , would you suggest using you pricing guide for family photographers and tweak it a little ?
You are so on-point and brilliant. Thank you for sharing your heart out and for helping me and others. I've been looking to get out of the "pricing dead zone." I'm off now to get your kit :)
Thanks for watching Otto!
Your business content has been genuinely sooo helpful, literally the biggest game changer!! I’ve done photography for 7 years on and off because the business side of it has just been so stressful for me. But thanks to you I’m learning that there are ways to do it without feeling like I’m stretching in every direction to my breaking point 😅
Do you recommend an LLC or no? I can't decide
We do recommend becoming an LLC!
I just did a whole weekend for 9 I'm just startin out n it got more gigs
Thanks for watching!
What wonderful information you've provided. Simple and clear and I totally understand your digital file offer. I've been a second shooter a few times (it was hard work and educational) and I have one question: Do you offer a certain number of edited photos on your digital file?
We tell the client we provide 80-100 images per hour of shooting but typically deliver 1000-1200 images per wedding day. Under promise over deliver!
I loooooove your shirt!!!
Thanks so much!!
Love the idea of engagement sessions in order to get to know the couple better and be comfortable. Thank you so much for this video! Definitely taking notes.. 🧡
Very helpful ❤️
Glad you think so!
Love the video but in the uk people want to see the price and the fact that its not on website means its a crazy amount and they are not interested, and thats so true, hearing you quote your prices of £3,000+ ? (only crazy where i live, sorry lol) People aren't stupid and not showing price is a red flag over here ! merry christmas and new year ! big fan !!
I'm just going through the comments and reviewing them.... What pricing do you give for what they call a "Justice of the Peace" wedding... that may be an hour of your time at most? Do you post that price as well?
@@FeedScrn No, for those that would like a more bespoke package, I tell them to get in touch with further details. My point is that by seeing the prices of my main packages they will be aware of the price range I cover which above all shows transparency and my ability to build a package unique to them, within the packages they can see.
@@robertYoung-ut6bk - Cool.... Thanks for your reply / the info.
This pricing structure could be applied to other genres of photography like senior portraits. Because as a senior portrait photographer, a senior session should really not take longer than 2 or 2 1/2 hours, they get tired of the session when it's longer than that and so does the photographer. So you just price senior portraits at one price or you'll have people doing you like they do my Dad, trying to order 1 -4x6 of another pose. I told him, there should be a minimum they have to pay to order another image, like that other woman on UA-cam says to do, it's 35.00 and you can have any size up to an 8x10. Because you have to edit the image and retouch it, a single 4x6 is not worth it. My Dad also does too much for people without charging them, I always tell him, you need to charge something when they ask for something that wasn't included because it's your time.
Thanks so much for sharing!
@@KatelynJames Thank you Katelyn for this photography business education, there's lots of videos about the technical side of photography and not enough regarding things like pricing.
how do you not have a million followers!!?!
Working on it!
Is that all natural light in there? You video is lit beautifully.
I wish!! Ty has a massive light on me!
I agree with this approach. I'm getting ready to start doing weddings for money, and my first thought was, I'm spending a day on this regardless of the time I'm actually there shooting. No point in offering partial days for less money. I can't fill that time with anything else. It's just giving up money and restricting what I can do. Charge for extras hours, sure. Do less than 8 hours, no.
I've also given in on the digital files. It's what most people want. I hate digital files. No guarantee they'll print them well, or at all. I'm thinking of including some "mandatory" prints with the files. I'm also thinking of including affordable prints that still make a profit, but don't need a massive markup since I'll already have my profit baked into my base offering. The idea of doing all that work only to have people viewing the images a phone kills me. Low res social media images, sure. Whipping out a phone to show house guests wedding pictures, please no.
Weddings in the UK are more like 12-13 hours 9am - 10pm ish 😬
Wow!!
I have a question about the complementary engagement shoot. If I understand correctly, it is only complementary because they are booking you for the wedding. So, if they do the engagement shoot and do not use you for the wedding, they do have to pay for the engagement session right?
This was such a great video Katelyn. Up until today, I have offered packages. What you have laid out here for us has made so much sense. Thank you!
The pricing kit goes into much more detail about our process! Glad it was helpful!
I just started a photography business recently and I had someone suggest that I offer wedding packages. I want to consider what others suggest as I am still learning and growing, but I know that I don’t want to give anyone any less than the whole day for their wedding because I want them to have the whole story of their wedding day as you said. Thank you so much for sharing this! Your video really puts things into perspective for me! 😊
Thanks for watching!
Assist a professional photographer on weddings for a long while before you start charging people.
Hey Katelyn, always very insightful to watch one of your videos. While watching thi I was wondering what is the lighting setup for your youtube videos because it is just sooo pleasant.
That would be a Tyler questions! He sets all that up!
A fantastic reminder. I would love to request another video on website reviews!
Coming soon!! Wanna through your website in the mix?
oh you haven't heard of 6 hours split shift LOL
I’d rather give digital files so they can print any number or put in slideshow. I’m not interested in organizing the printing.
I wish I could do weddings in my country... I mean, I could but in my country, the whole wedding photography experience is really, really bad and stressful - as 90% of my clients would be spoiled, egotistic, arrogant, really disrespectful and over-demanding people who also have a superiority complex - and this is coming from someone who is hard to annoy and anger and who is generally a really outgoing, calm and very friendly person. I know 6 photographers who do weddings here, all of them are in their late 20's and all of them already have grey hairs and stomach issues from all the stress... Sure, it may pay more a month than my portraiture and event work but for me, the stress and the amount of work (and the type of people) are not worth that money - you would have to offer me five digit sums PER JOB, for me to even start thinking about starting doing wedding photography here.
Oh I am so sorry to here that!!
Hi..wonderful content and very informative..my question or topic is about second photographers..the thing is do you look for one that has similar styles creatively as yourself..I ask that because shooting by yourself you have full creative control and your creative eye..what if the second photographer doesn't capture moments like yourself?..the help with other moments and different perspective is understandable...so basically my question is how do you choose a second photographer..and how do you handle lets say photo credit?..lets say the second photographer captures such a better moment and photos?.. upstage the primary photographer?.. maybe upstage isn't the correct word?..but that example scenario?..I guess at the end of the day a good second photographer is there to help and compliment the primary photographer?
Thanks for watching!
Great and informative video. However, this is why I'm happy I shoot wildlife. None of this wonderful advice would work in my country.
Thanks for watching!
Ms. James, just for clarification. the KJ Pricing Guide has your base/non-negotiable pricing as well as all of your available options? This is Genius!!!
Correct!
Hi Katelyn, Just a couple of quick questions. I have just about all your courses except the Pricing Guide because I do not have the software. My question is, how do you respond when a potential client loves your package, but wants to remove the engagement session and drop the cost, or the second shooter or wants a discount?
We know they are not a good fit....We do not offer to discount it.
KJ, I have no problem with wedding photographers releasing digital files to clients.
1) Curious, are you releasing medium- or high-res jpegs or something else?
2) Do you or your client retain the copyrights to your captured wedding images?
3) If the client is granted a limited, non-commercial digital print & display license and you retain the copyrights, do you timely register your wedding images with the US Copyright Office?
Thanks.
Thanks for sharing Sid!
@@KatelynJames KJ, you’ve confused my question/answer with another person’s; I’m not Sid.
Again, here is my comment and questions:
KJ, I have no problem with wedding photographers releasing digital files to clients.
1) Curious, are you releasing medium- or high-res jpegs or something else?
2) Do you or your client retain the copyrights to your captured wedding images?
3) If the client is granted a limited, non-commercial digital print & display license and you retain the copyrights, do *you timely register your wedding images with the US Copyright Office?*
Thanks.
Too bad she never answered your questions. I was curious about the digital files, too
I’m confused by releasing ‘digital files’ Surely you mean jpeg and not raw and what wedding photographers in this social media age doesn’t release jpegs?
In Singapore additional hours are charged. We never shoot for free!
I don’t have a second shooter so I only do smaller weddings. I let them know up front what I can and cannot do. But I have been guilty for staying over because the “band” was late or whatever reason.
Makes sense dale! Thanks for watching!
Sorry may be off topic. How do you deal with families at weddings not getting along? Other side hires their own photographer and videographer and we are tripping over each other fighting for spots.
I have never experienced that!
How to know if you should offer one pack?
It really comes down to personal preference it’s just the way that I prefer to do things
Best advices thanks you so much now I am going to fix my Portillo you the only UA-cam that give this advise
Awesome video! Very great points. I personally do both prints AND digital files 😁
Awesome! Thanks for sharing!
New subscriber so don’t know who Michael is but I assume your husband or someone close to you. Would you still hire a second shooter if you had to pay another photographer? Might be hard to get good resources for every booking I would think. Totally see the advantage just seems difficult to pull off if you don’t 100% trust the second shooter.
Yes! I have paid second shooters for some weddings! I would always have a 2nd! It is worth the money!
@@KatelynJames thanks
maybe I missed it, but do you instead have a flat rate you start at and offer the other add ons you mentioned
This is exactly what I use to do when I did wedding photography.
Love it!! Thanks for watching!
@@KatelynJames most welcome. Your content is fabulous
Great Info!!!! If I had only had this advise sooner, I'd still be shooting weddings.
haha!! there is still time!!
I know having a second shooter is good but I’m just getting started and don’t have the option right now to have a partner 😔
Totally makes sense!
Lol!! You always say it first, Katelyn!!
Great video!!
We will get it one day!
I agree about the eight hours Katelyn. I do wedding videography, and I always want to deliver a product I'm proud of, and with less than 8 hours, I would be disadvantaging myself and the client.
Girl you are preaching👍🏾👍🏾👍🏾 very good stuff.
Thank you so much 🤗
I love this!! Now I wonder how I can adapt this for my wedding cake business?!
Interesting!! Let me know if you have questions!
All of these ideas have been floating in my mind. Your video helped solidify them just in time to update my plans for 2022.
Over the winter I plan to dig in to your paid material.
Awesome! Thanks for sharing Mark!
What do you think about offering 4-hour cheaper packages in order to get more experience and portfolio material? With the intent of leveling up to the higher level after that? I'm not planning to increase prices incrementally. My plan is to out-compete other photographers on price (my quality and communication is really a steal), and then jump up to the high-end prices once I'm confident I can deliver on that. The idea is that very little people are in the market for mid-range. People are either on a slim budget and want the cheapest they can find, or they have aa huge budget and want to really invest in great photography. Maybe I'm wrong though?
For a second in the end, I thought we weren't going to hear Tyler's "BYE!" lol and then you got me!
haha!! we gotta figure that out!