"The Spark Went Because of Internal BS" Stu Cook Remembers Tom Fogerty & The Demise of Creedence
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- Опубліковано 21 кві 2024
- In this exclusive interview excerpt from the LEGENDS: Podcast by All Day Vinyl, Stu Cook - co-founder and bass player of Creedence Clearwater Revival talks about his friend Tom Fogerty and the factors that led him to leave Creedence Clearwater Revival and the ripple effect that had on the band. We also touch on Tom Fogerty's brilliant solo work with included some collaborations with Merl Saunders and Jerry Garcia. Records worth checking out!
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Check out the full interview with Stu Cook via LEGENDS: A Podcast by All Day Vinyl which is available on UA-cam, Spotify, Apple Music, Amazon Music and IHeartRadio. - Розваги
WATCH THE FULL INTERVIEW HERE: ua-cam.com/video/DrA7jb8cb1A/v-deo.html
Regardless of my comments this is an interesting interview. Thanks
I will say there was something about John playing with Tom, Stu and Doug that was special. These days John has too many guitarists, and just too much. He’s lost the swing of that small band he was one a part of.
John Fogerty got into an incredible musical groove and was pushing it for all it was worth and the rest of CCR did not want to go along for the ride.
John’s songwriting output in a short period is prob only rivaled by the Beatles. Incredible music.
You just have to love Stu taking the shot, again, at John saying, “How many hit records have you had since you got rid of the guys that were holding you back?” How many hit records has Stu had? How many hit records did Stu write?
yea bitter jealous cranks
Think that Stu's point was that they needed each other.
@@otisdylan9532 Maybe, maybe, not!
Zeeero!
I was a huge fan of the band back in the day, but.. i came to understand that without John, they were nowhere.. which Stu just doesn't want to recognise here, which is a shame, as they did achieve a lot together.. as for what John did after CCR, he actually has had more than one hit and continues to tour successfully to this day.. so i think its a strange perspective when he and Doug have done nothing but ride on the back of Johns talent in the form of a Creedence tribute band..
I think Stu recognizes John’s genius, throughout the interview he speaks of it, my take is that Stu’s frustration is not that John was the leader and vision of the group but rather that he treated the other dudes like side men without the respect of band members who have built credence since they were kids together
@@alldayvinyl I havent seen the whole thing so i cant speculate about this, but id suggest reading Johns book, as he has a clear picture about what went on.. between the way he was treated by the record company and the lack of loyalty from his band mates, the guy who actually made all of them rich was not treated well.. and John paid a big price over the next couple of decades both personally as well as professionally.. its a horror story and pretty clear where the blame lye.. Stu actually went to John at one point in the 80s and apologised for his behaviour, but at that point John was still knee deep in the law suits that Stu was partly responsible for.. so just keep in mind theres another side of the story.
Yes absolutely I want to read that, I love and idolize John as a musician and songwriter and personality - he doesn’t take shit and does what he wants, I love that. I am thankful for the music
Well said!
@@leepd1very, very true, words. Bravo! John Fogerty did lots of favours for his bandmates! What he(John)got in return was skullduggery from his bandmates & so called, friends! Even John’s, Brother, Tom, rugged his own sibling, John, and quit the band, even after John relented so the others could write songs & sing songs! How did that work out for them? Also, when the band lost their life savings in the “Castle Bank” fiasco, John using his own money(money that Stu Cook, Doug Clifford & Tom Fogerty tried to sue John for)sued the entity that represented Fantasy Records & John got them 8.6 Million dollars! These guy’s(Cook, Clifford & John’s Brother Tom, sided with the record company,Fantasy, against John. I could go on, however, I bet you get the point? This is the thanks John got for taking them from “garage band” status to arguably 1 of the greatest roots based R & R bands in history!
There’s no denying John’s musical talent. That does NOT mean he didn’t play role in CCR’s demise. Both things can be true.
This is why John wrote the song “Have you ever seen the rain,” the band was arguably the best roots based R & R band in history and the other 3 wanted to change the musical direction! Tom Fogerty, Stu Cook & Doug Clifford were jealous John was making most of the money as well as getting all the attention! All this & John had split the royalties on some of the albums, among other favours he did for these ungrateful chaps!
It’s ironic that we associate their music with good times, a fond memory or a dream but for them it’s shadowed by bitterness and disappointment. Stu mentions Ringo. He and the others should’ve emulated him. Ringo was grateful just to be in the greatest band ever and knew his place. He would’ve stayed in the Beatles forever. I saw John twice as a solo about 15 years ago and he was terrific.
It is overall a very sad story, but the ringo comparison is not quite accurate , ringo did sing a bunch of songs.l where as the dudes in ccr were treated as side men. obviously Mardi Gras album proved that the other dudes should not have been singing or writing.. as for Tom Fogerty he has some good solo stuff but nothing that holds a candle to John’s ccr output … but he was a talented dude. Being in a band is hard; being in a band with your brother and childhood friends is harder. Thankfully we have the music and John still touring and playing it
@@alldayvinyl There’s no perfect analogy but the Ringo comparison is apt. He did write Octopuses Garden and put out good solo stuff on his own after the breakup. And that’s the point. He knew he was subordinate to the other three but unlike Tom, he made it work. Tom defied his brother even at the end of his life. Too bad. A question I would’ve asked Stu: if you could’ve done one thing differently to keep the band together, what would’ve it been? Yes, thank goodness for the music.
It's always the guys without great talent, but with the ego of someone with great talent, that destroy bands.
I’m not taking any sides here and there is no doubt that John is the visionary and most important component but it’s not fair I don’t think to dimish the other members talent. Those guys are very talented and helped shape the sound we hear. You compare fogerty to some of the all time greats and those icons talents might be seen as less than Fogertys but they are still great. Both sides have their story and ultimately it’s just sad on all fronts because ccr is amazing and I love what Fogerty did after CCR
Not always. Ringo was the least talented Beatle, but I'd say he did less to break up the Beatles than the other Beatles did.
“but with the ego of someone with great talent”
I think you missed this part
@@dwocelot6913 You're right, I didn't read your post as carefully as I should have.
I met Stu years.. decades ago, when he was with Southern Pacific. We were planning interviews and were told Stu would bolt if any CCR questions were posed. Grumpy old man was the vibe at the time.
He seems a lot more at peace with it now and open to share his perspective.. very sad the amount of bad blood in such a rich and beautiful music legacy
@@alldayvinyl (from experience) Eventually there's almost always "bad blood" in a band, especially after being on the road together for months/years. It's "familiarity breeds contempt" on steroids. Then throw in that for every "hit" John gets the "songwriter's penny" (and e.g. the drummer gets nothing) and whatever scraps of publishing $ are left over after Saul Zaentz has taken the lion's share ...
there's bound to be some bad feelings. It happened with almost any original band I ever knew that actually made some money.
@@davequ Check out one lowly group that did pretty good.. uh... Rolling Stones. Mick's education at the London School of Economics was not wasted. Another: Eagles, although their manager Irving Azoff is largely responsible for their riches - business wise. But of course, they certainly had the bad feelings part. Some just got sucked in by real parasites. No shortage of them in the entertainment business.
@@davequ I was curious and did only a bit of research to see that Fogarty got majority interest in his catalogue of songs back a few years back. The folks who bought 'em, (and Fantasy Records) Concord, was reluctant to make a global deal, until Fogarty brought in who? Irving Azoff, and soon a deal was reached. Obviously, Irv is the master of the deal you can't refuse.
@@markstevens1729 =D Haw! ... I have a personal Irv Azoff story or two / experience from 1975 and then again 1980. Way too long a story(s) to post here. He was "the man" even way back then.
Saw John open for Mellancamp in 05 and he was terrific. The true genius of CCR for sure.
An icon ❤️
Absolutely fantastic have a wonderful day ❤😊
Thank you! You too!
Great channel man. Glad i found it.
🙏🙏🙏
Tom was a great singer and songwriter too. His solo albums are great.
I agree, I particularly like the solo album with Jerry Garcia and Merl Saunders
@@alldayvinyl great songwriter? I don’t think so.
I think Tom’s first two solo albums are solid
Oh yes my friend.
I have alben from Tom. Great music!
My opinion is that John had a lot of talent & it was natural that he should be leader of the band - & have the vision of where they go. BUT, i think he went way overboard with his control. Tom was a great singer & should have been allowed to sing 1 or 2 songs per album. I understand that Stu played piano in the earlier years & it should have been him that played the keyboard parts. Tom, Stu & Doug all could sing - & this is proven when they sung backing vocals live. They should have also done the backing vocals on the recordings. I can see the huge frustration from the other 3. John rightfully should have been the main contributor to their music - but a little bit of give & take from him, i think, would have given this great band many more years!!
Doug and Stu were given that chance on the last Creedence album Mardi Gras, viewed as the worst album by CCR. No hits from either Doug or Stu. John was the talent. His lazily written Sweet Hitch Hiker was the hit but on this album he wrote an incredible song, Somedays Never Come. Doug, Stu and Tom won the lottery once John took over the band
There is no denying that John was the brain behind CCR, but people are always demonizing Stu, Tom and Doug as If they were solely responsible for the break up of the band,
from what I've seen and read in books, interviews, documentaries and so on, John seems to be difficult as well, and I think this is what both nourished his vision for the band as well as his stubbornness which ended up alienating the others
Of course Tom, Stu and Doug had a lot to do with the break up, It's always difficult to know who to believe when two person break up so imagine with 4... there might have been jealousy, frustration, lack of communication and insecurities from the four of them...
And now, nearly 50 years later, the stories must be distorted...
It's a real shame, to hold grudges that long against each other, these guys really must have loved each other at some point...😕
Agree and well said. it’s def very sad ending to an amazing musicial legacy
It's a shame that it ended the way it did. The animosity in the band opened the door to Saul Zaentz
taking complete control which in turn completely destroyed any future for them. John got the real
raw end of the deal with being completely eradicated from his own band not even being able to
play his own music anymore. That's the kick in the balls that really soured it all. Too bad they didnt
have a real manager that could have lit the way for a better path. I'll always love Creedence. It's too bad
they couldnt see it for what it was. Fame and ego are all to blame for sure.
Stu, John made you a millionaire.
How ungrateful can one man be?
Oh by the way Stu, ever heard of the album Blue Moon Swamp? It won the Grammy in '97 for best album.
But I know you'll take it like a friend
Blue moon swamp was a solid album, so were the blue ridge rangers albums and centerfield.. he’s had some good ones for sure.
I disagree with some of the comments. When the Beatles started, it was John and Paul who started it, George and ringo were added, John and Paul did all of the writing except for some by George. But with creedence, the 3 started together, and apparently they wanted Tom because they seen Him as a big plus to the band at first, guess because of his talent at the beginning. Why couldn't john just let the other 3 just sing once and awhile? It's like when I saw George Harrison in that movie, he was singing lead and I thought, oh man, George is singing lead to this one and I loved it!!! John didn't even let these guys sing backup except a few times, he may have wrote the songs, but he wrote them for just him alone. You know, I don't care who the top guy is, the band was the band and that's who I want to watch. I find myself looking at old ccr clips then I do looking at John by himself. There's blame to go both ways, and it's sad such friends from high school 7th grade doing something together made them all famous to have such animosity towards each other especially at such an old age. They're all millionaires, so what the hell. John takes credit for writing the songs, but weren't the songs for the band ? Didn't he write the songs for all of them? All I know is, Jesus said if you don't forgive you won't be forgiven! Way to late in age to be acting this way. Besides, isn't it God alone who gave them all their lives and their talent? I wouldn't be crediting myself in such a way knowing that Jesus gave His life for all, he gave it free! Better forgive and forget before its to late.
Sweet Hitch Hiker was the last hit. It came in a picture sleeve, and Tom was absent. I know, because I collected the hits of the 60s on 45. It's a shame, but the band had a heck of a run, lots of hits. So many, in fact, that many records had hit A and B sides.
So many great songs, such a sad ending to an amazing band
Short ,but interesting and informative interview.Thanks!
The full interview is also available on my Channel it’s pretty in depth on the history of CCR, Stu shared a lot of interesting stuff
@@alldayvinyl I just found you on Spotify. Thanks for uploading there. Going to download them so I can listen offline. Cheers man
Jealousy runs in many bands, usually for b.s. ego problems. If it ain't broke, don't try to fix it.
Stu won’t realize that John was responsible for CCR’s huge success. He was the composer, lead vocalist, and the heart of the band. I once got tickets from a friend to see Creedence “Revisited”, but returned them when I found out John Fogerty was not a part of it. John Fogerty IS Creedence.
lol. How many hit records did John Fogerty have after Creedence broke up? One more than any of the other guys.
I think there is no question it was John’s vision but I hear the record is Stu, cosmo, Tom and John and the inspired playing is all them together
Without the group, there is no CCR and no success. CCR arguably the greatest group of talent of their era. Not one bad tune they recorded in their short time
@@MacNur-tu3cq Beatles , Stones , Zeppelin , The Who , ----" hold our beers "
@@MacNur-tu3cq 'Porterville'
Actually he had 5 top 40 hit songs and 7 top 40 albums. And a bunch of others that got a lot of radio play even if not technically hits.
I have the Tom Fogerty solo albums. I enjoy listening to them.
Same, those albums with Jerry Garcia and merl Saunders are great
It took John Fogerty 50 years & 1.5 million dollars to get back the rights to the songs HE wrote. While Stu Cook & Doug Clifford screwed him by forming a band called “Creedence Clearwater Revisited” & played all of CCR’s songs while John couldn’t play them because of the law suit he was fighting. Stu & Doug were raking in the money from playing CCR’s whole catalog while John was taking heat over trying to get them to stop playing them. Stu & Doug just laughed in his face all the way to the bank!
You’re clueless. lol.
@@dadeo8957
Considering I was a studio musician in the same studio as Stu, Doug & Credence Clearwater Revisited while they were recording their first album, I’d say I was in the know. You are clueless.
@@dadeo8957
Suck a big one.
@@dadeo8957 eat it.
@@MichaelSSmith-hs5pw Studio musician? Yeah right lol. And I’m Elvis Presley’s brother.
Would have been that hard to let Tom have a song or two on each album? Not every song John wrote was great. Tom was a fine songwriter and deserved to have his songs on a record. Doing that would have kept the band together longer. Wouldn’t it have been nice to have had CCR record and tour all through the seventies? John was a little too narcissistic around this time. Nobody has ever doubted his talent.
Doug and Stu sold the band right out from under John's feet. Screw them.
John had more than one hit once he left Creedence. First a cover of Jambalya, then from Centerfield The Old Man Down The Road, Rock and Roll Girls and Centerfield. While not hits, John wrote two songs that have become iconic, Rockin’’ All Over The World performed by Status Quo to open Live Aid and Almost Saturday Night covered by Bruce Springsteen and one of John’s heroes Ricky Nelson. Stu will not admit that without John Fogerty there is no Creedence, no hits, and no Rock and Roll Hall of Fame.
Stu , I saw you with Doug Sahm at Jonathan Swifts in Harvard Square , Cambridge , Mass . It would have been early 80s .
I love Doug Sahm, that must have been really cool 🔥
I am so annoyed that the other band members couldn't see which side their bread was buttered on and pressured John into including their crappy songs on an album. The end results were about as listenable as when Hendrix put that Noel Redding piece of crap "Little Miss Strange" on Electric Lady Land.
He let them write songs, and the album tanked. How many years did they tour playing John's songs? He was the talent and they were along for the ride!
All these so called CCR/Fogerty experts weighing in. Big time experts. Give me a break. CCR was and always will be John, Tom, Doug, and Stu.
Totally, fogerty may have been the key dude but ccr was a band 🙌
John was the talent
No doubt that John was the visionary and leader, but can’t dismiss Stu, Tom and Cosmos talent, the vibe on the albums is theirs too. Playing live they are in it and killing it. John made it happen, would it have been the same without the other three and their long standing history and relationship ? I dont think so
Sad to see one of my music heroes from back then was a Don Henley. Let's work as a team and do it my way.
Sad story for sure ..
the problem is CCR needed John, John didn't need them.....Tom, Stu and Doug could have been easily replaced by the wrecking crew....but not John....
No doubt John was the key player, I don’t discount the others contributions… the wrecking crew or session musicians could have easily played the part but the long relationship and chemistry is possibly what makes the stuff work on record.. who know what it would sound like without them
Interesting to hear his comments. Sad that the band was torn apart by the internal BS. So many great songs, like “Green River”, “Born On The Bayou” and “Commotion”.
Amazing band, sad demise indedd
Should have gone solo
Singer guitarist and writer
Who else did he need
Dylan started off on own!
CCR's "I Heard It Through the Grapevine" one of the Finest Rock recordings ever made.
Amazingnesss indeed
lol. It's a great, cool track. "one of the finest".....that's just overhyperbolic bullshit. It's a good cover version.
@@TTM9691that's a pretty assertive statement. Are you aware that music is subjective? Beauty is in the eye of the beholder.
@@DonaldMerrit I'm aware of that, you silly ass, that's why I was replying to an opinion masquerading as a declarative statement of fact. Why aren't you babbling your bullshit to him, Dopey Don?
@@DonaldMerrit (IMHO)✅
So...where was Allen Klein in all of the B.S.?
I know he had a big hand in the demise of the Beatles. I recently learned that he was hired and brought in towards the end of CCR's run
From all I read it doesn’t seem klein is much more honest than Saul Zarntz, I found it interesting too they brought in Allen
@@alldayvinyl Both Saul and Allen have an interesting thing in common. Can you guess?
Crooks
@@alldayvinyl I'll give you a hint....early life wikipedia....oy vey
Bass player, not base player. The close captioning is often off.
The close captioning is horrible, no doubt …UA-cam has a long way to go
Stu, maybe if you actually let your lawyer father read the shitty contract, history would be different. You and Doug screwed John, whether you realize it or not.
Come on, Stu, all these years later, isn't the Creedence story certified history now? Certified that John Fogerty was the genius songwriter, singer, guitar player and song arranger who was responsible for the global success you shared in? Certified that Tom was jealous or unable to match his genius brother's talents? Certified that John Fogerty got screwed out of millions by Sol Zanz, who you and the other Creedence members remained friendly with? All I know is that when you say the words Creedence Clearwater Revival, to this very day it's 95% John Fogerty.
I agree with the fact that Fogerty was the genius and visionary and the story of his greatness’s will live forever. Fogerty is amazing. I also think that as a unit on record and live the playing of all members of ccr was special and it gave it its unique vibe. I think just because John is on another level it doesn’t diminish the talent the others have. I mean there are very few musicians ever like Fogerty, it’s always a loaded and unfair comparison with the other dudes
@@alldayvinyland for that reason, the others should have been very grateful, versus what actually occurred. Bloody egos!
John Fogerty is a talented writer but CCR was a band and the sound that made his songs great were due in large part to GnR other three musicians. No one will deny John Fogerty’s extraordinary talent but it is he who seems the bitter and vindictive one. He even was nasty to his own brother and band mate while his said brother was on his deathbed..that’s low.
@@drummer78 You think that came from nothing? John's output made the band's fame. The others had been trying for almost a decade before their success with John's material and singing. Tom was jealous and left. The other two wanted writing credit, so on their final LP MartiGras, they all contributed material. Result? Panned (except Sweet Hitch Hiker - writer? J. Fogerty) and I recall clearly at the time and it was a serious let down. Then the other three turned against John and sold their interest in CCR to Zaentz and in turn, screwed John for decades. So what was that again??
The question isn’t “who was the primary driver of the band?” It was “what broke up the band?”
Sure, Tom sold like 47 albums when he escaped CCR and got out on his own. Great move.
How many hits did Stu and the others create after the break up??? NONE!
Yup
I can’t believe SC applauds Tom Fogerty & Tom’s contributions, when in fact Tom Fogerty rugged the whole band & quit because he couldn’t get is own way! Pathetic is what it is!🇨🇦
I think they should be applauded for their contributions, they made great music no matter what the personal dynamics were and who was right or wrong
@@alldayvinyl Applauded 4 the music? Absolutely! The dynamics, well, no! The dynamics is an on going, story! That is what makes the world, go round! Trouble is, there r a lot of people on these CCR/ John Fogerty/ Tom Fogerty, tubes, who have opinions that r erroneous, half truths, made up stories etc! However, like you stated I wish people would stick to celebrating the music, only!🇨🇦
And how did Tom's "writing" go?😮
Tom has some good songs on his solo album, he was a talented guy but history def showed that Fogerty was on fire and unmatched at that time
@@alldayvinylTom’s songs were mostly, lame! Maybe a couple were not bad! Can you imagine a new CCR song coming on the radio with Tom Fogerty’s 50ish voice? It would have gone over like a “lead balloon,” just like Mart Gras, did!
@@davidkirkham6497I def would not want a ccr album of tom, Doug or Stu songs, simultaneously I like a couple of Tom’s solo albums not holding a candle to anything ccr or John before or after ccr.
John carried these three ungrateful no talents.
it's striking that JF could play drums & bass, but let these guys do it but they found a reason not to
think i will listen to the blue ridge rangers tonight
Underrated album
great to hear the truth as someone other than John's version.no one person should run a band!!!no one is a genius ,it's just four guys.
When you write all the songs, sing them and play lead guitar, then you are the band. CCR wasn't the Beatles.
Revisited is a total joke. Ripping Fogerty off.
Revisited is a tribute band and I think stu and cosmo recognized that. They paid tribute to the music they performed and recorded. Do you think all tribute acts rip off the main member of og band? I mean there are a ton of ccr tribute bands out there, wouldn’t you want to see the one that had two of the four og members ?
@@alldayvinyl Nope. They shouldn't call themselves a name to fool people into thinking it's the real deal. And they badmouth Fogerty while making money on the songs he wrote.
Wrong bud. Only one of CCR continually bad mouthed the others and whined endlessly like a sook.
@@johnnyneverletmedown53 he had a right to do some complaining. Those guys rode on his coattails (he was the one with talent), and then they didn’t even back him in his fight with fantasy. screw those guys.
No one is as much a genius as John. He likes Figjam on toast every morning. Exemplary.
plausible deniability. plain and simple. the truth is they all stabbed John in the back because of envy and greed. "I need the money". remember that Stu?
Just another story of a band screwed over by management. On the other side of the scale, rest of the band had about as much success without John as Pete Best achieved without the rest of the Beatles….
True on both fronts
Gee sounds like a jerk, I think Mardi Gras was real bad….because Stu and Doug were just part of the band but John was the band, then he says Fogerty had no hits, he could’t record because of lawsuits, when he did I think Centerfield was pretty big…right? Whadda bum!
Lets be honest they all suck with out each other ...egos got in the way
bitter as F much?
So basically, John's winning personality killed the band, running his own brother off, then the rest of you enmasse?
Personally, I preferred Creedence Clearwater Revisited and after the ROF crap, even more so and centerfield is really not that good IMHO...not compared to the old stuff.
Overall it’s just a sad ending to an incredible and enduring musicial legacy
he let them have their way with mardi gras and proved that they needed him more then he needed them
John didn’t “run his own Brother,” off! Tom left because he couldn’t compete, musically, with John! Also, John did decide to let the others write & sing, however, 3 weeks later Tom left the others “ high & dry,” after John had lobbied for Tom to join the band in the first place! Tom was jealous of his own, Brother, John!🇨🇦
So you prefer a cover band to the real thing?