@@stevencovacci9764 oh I do appreciate much of Wim’s work and scholarship in this area. But as important as tempi is, I don’t think it’s as clear cut as whole vs half beat….especially when there are recordings by conductors who were not more than two generations away in some instances from the classical masters. Toscanini and Walter are but two who come to mind. Did tempi really get so crazy fast in a couple generations? I may be completely wrong, but I find it hard to believe.
This version is already so fast that it's barely possible for me to listen to it and follow along with the music. To me that's one of the biggest proofs for WBT. Also the tempo is completely in line with how one would intuitively perform earlier Beethoven works with no Metronome markings.
@@marklhuff1you gotta also consider, records back then were extremely limited in playback space. So playing extremely long piece like this only meant, playing faster. Not only that, musically taste obviously changed to fast, virtuoso speeds than smeared over the musical character and catered to the masses
See, if your critique was actually useful, maybe we would see this. Video with 400k american Likes and many new musicians inspired to compete for great art, debating how to make good sound. In the comments
A great example of mindless ''musicology'' that flies in the face of musicality. What unadulterated Chuzpah to offend people's ears with such strident nonsense.
And the nonsense is based on what exactly? You are very educated in using big words and generalizing. Now provide some substance (and proof us you can actually play +20, +25 notes per second since that you'll have to do in your 'mindful musicology' :-)
I have to confess I don’t know the Beethoven Symphonies well at all, his music truthfully doesn’t really do much for me. I basically listen to almost nothing but classical and choral music. I know maybe three or four movements sound like off the top of my head. With nothing in my mind to really compare them to I don’t find this approach offensive. Maybe at some points the pace comes off as a little slow and stodgy, but over all there are a great deal of satisfying moments in your recordings of the symphonies.
Ah yes. The limitation of most musicians proudly Dunning Krueger displaying itself in these comments. The theory Autism of most Theory Students, which they cant ever leave, and renders most of their critique pretty useless
I thought Beethoven was just reading the wrong side of his metronome pendulum, and if you work on that basis they make a lot more sense.
he knew how to use a metronome...... don't fall for the far stretched 'solution' stories. and this one even will not eliminate the problem
Ngl the second movement seemed more powerful that it was conventionally
It seems to me that there are some entitled people commenting here.
yup
I think your obsession with whole-beat theory is overriding your good-taste and musical common sense.
nope; you are missing the point of his demonstrations -- and the artistic integrity of the same
@@stevencovacci9764 oh I do appreciate much of Wim’s work and scholarship in this area. But as important as tempi is, I don’t think it’s as clear cut as whole vs half beat….especially when there are recordings by conductors who were not more than two generations away in some instances from the classical masters. Toscanini and Walter are but two who come to mind. Did tempi really get so crazy fast in a couple generations? I may be completely wrong, but I find it hard to believe.
This version is already so fast that it's barely possible for me to listen to it and follow along with the music. To me that's one of the biggest proofs for WBT. Also the tempo is completely in line with how one would intuitively perform earlier Beethoven works with no Metronome markings.
@@marklhuff1you gotta also consider, records back then were extremely limited in playback space. So playing extremely long piece like this only meant, playing faster. Not only that, musically taste obviously changed to fast, virtuoso speeds than smeared over the musical character and catered to the masses
See, if your critique was actually useful, maybe we would see this. Video with 400k american Likes and many new musicians inspired to compete for great art, debating how to make good sound. In the comments
A great example of mindless ''musicology'' that flies in the face of musicality. What unadulterated Chuzpah to offend people's ears with such strident nonsense.
And the nonsense is based on what exactly? You are very educated in using big words and generalizing. Now provide some substance (and proof us you can actually play +20, +25 notes per second since that you'll have to do in your 'mindful musicology' :-)
I have to confess I don’t know the Beethoven Symphonies well at all, his music truthfully doesn’t really do much for me. I basically listen to almost nothing but classical and choral music. I know maybe three or four movements sound like off the top of my head. With nothing in my mind to really compare them to I don’t find this approach offensive. Maybe at some points the pace comes off as a little slow and stodgy, but over all there are a great deal of satisfying moments in your recordings of the symphonies.
Ah yes. The limitation of most musicians proudly Dunning Krueger displaying itself in these comments.
The theory Autism of most Theory Students, which they cant ever leave, and renders most of their critique pretty useless
🙉