It really took me a while to deconstruct my fear of hell. It felt like the only reason why I was Christian was that if I wasn't I was going to hell. It was fear-based. Now I have faith, and I know God is in control no matter where he takes me.
@@kate-vi9xh I'm so sorry to hear that. I fell away from God and didn't even believe in him for a while because of this . We have been raised to believe that God can love us and at the same time would torture us for eternity! I call bullshit on that! I questioned why God let people be born in the 1st place . Seems pretty sick. By listening to other thoughts on the subject I have realized that h*** is a place made up to make people continue serving the "Roman Empire." Nowadays it keeps butts in the seats I guess. But I lost most of my fear years ago and I continue to lose the other 2% the more I learn about it And the closer I get to the true Concept of God. If you read the scriptures it's really not what is talking about.
This is where I am at right now. A lot of things that I feel like are helping me, and that really have been(emotionally, physically, etc) are things that I am scared are going to send me to hell
I’m so glad you guys are covering this. my Hell trauma: When I was younger, couldn’t have been any older than 4th grade, I spent the night at a family friend’s house who, despite us all being Christian, were way more religious than my family. The mom sat us all down for their nightly bible study and explained to us how when the rapture comes, the good will ascend and rest will be left to complete chaos (hell). Eternal fires would erupt, the oceans would be of blood, people would be screaming and in horrifying pain...but never die. A permanent place of absolute horror and burning. I can’t even begin to tell you all how absolute traumatized I was. It has lingered in my mind since that year. Even till this day, a lot of my fear of God comes from the fear of Hell. It has WEAKENED my faith for many years; only this year have I began to restructure/rediscover my faith.
I was told about 666 and mark of the beast at public school when I was in third grade. I was so scared and went home and told my stepdad. Thank goodness he had a little bit of faith and told me the real story about Jesus and how he for gave our sins. Jesus, a relationship with him through faith is what saves us from hell. Hell is a real place. It’s important that we tell the truth about what’s in the Bible. And it is traumatizing. That is why Jesus is so amazing! Grab on to him today read the word of God and ask him to save you and turn away from your sin and to him
For me it was end times teaching- it was the cool thing to have church youth retreats and show a video of people refusing the mark of the beast and getting their heads chopped off. Particularly since like many kids, we were incredibly sheltered. I wasn´t even allowed to watch PG13 movies or anything violent, but somehow I was allowed to watch really graphic end times movies. But I think the most damaging was the instruction to ´look forward to it´. Like... after intense pain and suffering, plagues, wars, famine, people going to hell forever to burn but also the instruction to ¨Look forward to these signs because it´s a good thing because Jesus was coming¨ is just.... I don´t know there´s something kind of dark and twisted about purposefully using fear to try to convert people and then telling them they should be happy. I was also desperately afraid I would be ´left behind.´ I thought, ¨If God figures out I´m not looking forward to his coming because I´m scared, will he be mad at me for my lack of faith and not rapture me?¨ I used to literally sneak into my parents rooms in the middle of the night and make sure they hadn´t disappeared and I remember having a lot of nightmares about hell and death.
That’s not hell that’s Armageddon which I think last for 7 years then those who have still not repented will be condemned to hell (lake of fire) with Satan.
@@aprilo4447 I relate to your story so much. I still struggle with the concept in my faith. The idea of God returning scares me because so much of my faith has been built on fear and the belief that I have to be perfect. I struggle with the idea of people being eternally punished...it seems contradictory. And I even feel guilt questioning these things, unfortunately
IF THERE IS NO HELL,,, I ask you 1 question??? Then why did Jesus need to suffer on the cross?..... Yes, hell is real,,, but I hate to say it.. So,be BOLD IN PROCLAIMING CHRIST...Telling people about hell is Loving...
I always struggled with the existence of hell. When I was 13, I remember asking my church leaders how heaven can be perfect if my parents and friends won't be there. I could never understand how heaven would be perfect and how I would feel great there, knowing that many people who I loved would be "burning forever". I've been thinking a lot the past week about hell, so this video came at a perfect time. I was thinking about how I don't wish suffering upon people who have really really wronged me. Like people who have done extremely terrible things to me. I would never want them to suffer forever. So, if I have this empathy and love for them, than how much greater must God's love and empathy be towards them? God, the creator and embodiment of love... I just don't know if I believe anymore that He would turn His back on them forever.
@@jen8441 God loves us more than animals, and plants -- He sent His Son Jesus to die for us, not animals or plants. I don't think we get punished for learning; Punishment comes as a natural consequence of sin. God want to rescue us from this, He wants to save us from that and save us from Hell. God doesn't want anyone to perish - 2 Peter 3:9 Anyone who wants to be rescued, can be; It's their choice -- John 3:16 / Romans 10:9-13
The concept I personally struggled with was how a God who supposedly loved every one of us would condemn us to Hell forever if we made too many mistakes. I stopped believing in eternal damnation as a teenager even though I identified as Catholic.
@@jen8441 I don't know... I mean, maybe it's just me, but when I was a child and disobeyed my parents, they would ground me for a short period of time, not shun me forever. I know, lucky me right?
This is blasphemous. Don't pick and choose from what the Word teaches, Jesus taught about eternal suffering, eternal life. The significance of sin against our Creator is tremendous. He is just and Jesus died on the cross and took our punishment for those who have faith in him and repent.
@T K If Jesus was speaking in a metaphorical analogous way, Mark 9:47-48 And if your eye causes you to sin, tear it out. It is better for you to enter the kingdom of God with one eye than with two eyes to be thrown into hell, ‘where their worm does not die and the fire is not quenched.’ What is the analogy here? What is the said metaphor implying? Genuinely curious.
@T K Okay, why won't you answer the question then? I'm not talking about the rest of the Bible, I explicitly meant that verse when Jesus speaks of eternal suffering. To answer your question, 7 days. Day and night. Day and night. It's about as straight forward as it can be. Genesis 1:14 Then God said, “Let lights appear in the sky to separate the day from the night. Let them be signs to mark the seasons, days, and years. 15 Let these lights in the sky shine down on the earth.” And that is what happened. 16 God made two great lights-the larger one to govern the day, and the smaller one to govern the night. He also made the stars. 17 God set these lights in the sky to light the earth, 18 to govern the day and night, and to separate the light from the darkness. And God saw that it was good. It clearly speaks of day and night in those verses governed by light and darkness. 1 day = sunrise to sunset..
covering this topic I think is so important: I honestly that I was insane for having anxiety attacks and depressive episodes thinking that I was about to die, but more so the death isn’t wasnt scared me, it was this idea of condemnation that petrified me, and I can definitely say has affected me mentally. Even now, I try to convince myself I am worth of salvation but more often than not I have grown to believe that I will suffer hellfire and damnation.
Let me give you 100% assurance. 2 Corinthians 13:5 “Examine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith; prove your own selves. Know ye not your own selves, how that Jesus Christ is in you, except ye be reprobates?” Philippians 2:12 Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling. Romans 3:23 - For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God; John 3:16 - For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. 1 John 1:9 - If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us [our] sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. John 14 6Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me. 7If ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also: and from henceforth ye know him, and have seen him. Romans 6 23For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord. 1 John 1:9 - If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us [our] sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. 1Corinthians 15: 1Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand; 2By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain. 3For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; 4And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures: Romans 10 9That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. 10For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. 11For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed. 12For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him. 13For WHOSOEVER shall CALL upon the name of the Lord shall be SAVED. Think about it. Let me know.
I tend to not draw any hard lines on hell, as it's out of my hands anyway. If God is merciful and just at the same time I know HE alone knows the hearts of all and judges according to what He alone knows. Pete Enns talks about the motivation of evangelism to be to bring people to Jesus because he's the best thing you can bring them too, not because of hell or heaven. I think that's a fair motivation for evangelism.
I do consider myself a Christian, but hell has been massively troubling to me as a doctrine. I remember the terror I felt as a kid when I attempted to read Revelation, a very complex book. And the explanations never sat right with me.
Sorry, I just realised it sounds like I just gave you an exam essay question 😆 but I'd honestly love to see it. This video itself is so eye-opening and really makes me question whether I live to please God and be a good example of Jesus's love OR if I live just to avoid eternal condemnation. Even questioning it now makes me feel a little bit fearful like "how can I dare deny that he'll exist? Am I suggesting that I know this 'mysterious' God's ways and daring to question why he would send the innocent to be punished forever". It's definitely something to think about in quarantine 🤔😅
i dont know why it didnt put the rest of what i wrote, but read matthew 7:13-23 john 3:16-18, it would be lovely if all where saved but the bible does not teach that, hell is not eternal but it is real. jesus came to save those who would believe in him
Even as an atheist I find this an interesting conversation. The first thing that made me doubt religion was my morality didn't line up with the bible and I couldn't imagine all my friends and "unsaved" family members going to hell. Science brought me further out of religion. What I still question though is the strong sense of love I felt when I almost died drowning. It felt like unconditional love before passing out. It was not like the vengeful, angry, jealous god I was taught. If there is something it definitely didn't feel like something to fear.
This is God the way I know Him! Thank you for sharing this😊 I hope that one day we will all actknowledge that it is not about right/wrong, it is about unconditional love offering itself.
You said that science brought you further out of religion but I think science and God can go hand in hand! I believe that the scientific discoveries of evolution and anatomy and all those other things that people say disprove the existence of God can actually bring us closer to God because it’s his way of showing us how he created the world and how it works! Just some food for thought!
The bible has the real answers to this question. Jesus speaks about Hell more than any other person in the bible.... it is very real. Heaven and hell are not what we decide they are.
Unless we receive the gift of eternal life, we will *_perish:_* ■ "For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life." (John 3:16) How will the unsaved perish? ■ "For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord" (Romans 6:23) After resurrection and judgment, the unsaved will die a second time. It's called the "second death" in Revelation 2:11, 20:6, 20:14 and 21:8. After the second death there is no life and there is no hope of resurrection. It's the end of you. You'll never "be" again. That's what it means to "perish." That's how God mercifully deals with those who reject Him. The word “hell” appears in Bible *_translations_* because hell-believing *_translators_* put it there, paving over the meanings of three different original Greek words (New Testament). Those words have nothing to do with a place of eternal, fiery torment. Here’s an example: ■ “And if thine eye offend thee, pluck it out: it is better for thee to enter into the kingdom of God with one eye, than having two eyes to be cast into hell fire” (Mark 9:47) "Hell" in that verse was how translators translated the Greek word γέεννα -geena or gehenna in English. So, what was γέεννα, really? It was the valley (just outside Jerusalem) which was used as a dump in Jesus’ time. Constant fire and maggots there were sure to destroy whatever was thrown in. But translators said nothing about that dump. Instead, they translated γέεννα as “hell.” Using “hell” in that verse was grossly misleading. Jesus was not talking about eternal torment in some sort of fiery hell. Jesus was saying the unsaved would perish. They would surely be destroyed, just as trash thrown into that dump was sure to be destroyed. They would be figuratively thrown into the dump. Translators (especially King James Version, 1611) made a real mess when they used the word “hell” in place of those three Greek words. They had inherited their hell concept, by tradition, through the Catholic church. By using “hell” they were twisting the meanings of the Greek words, making the Bible appear to support to their own concept of a place of perpetual, fiery torment. Over time some some translators have recognized this error, noting the original Greek words in footnotes, or even using the original Greek words directly in the translated text . . . and not using “hell.” Young’s Literal Translation (YLT), for example, never uses “hell.” The damage caused by the translators continues to this day. Millions of reasonable people dismiss Christianity as nonsense when they are told the God of mercy will sadistically torment the unsaved forever and ever in some sort of fiery hell. People struggle with the thought of perishing because they've been led to believe they have an immortal soul that leaves the body at death and lives - somewhere - forever. That's actually a pagan doctrine that has crept into institutional Christianity over the centuries. (It's a repackaged version of Satan's lie, "Ye shall not surely die" -Genesis 3:4.) Here's the pagan Greek philosopher Plato; see if this sounds like what most professing Christians have been led to believe by their churches: _"Do we believe that there is such a thing as death? And is this anything but the separation of soul and body? And being dead is the attainment of this separation; when the soul exists in herself, and is parted from the body and the body is parted from the soul . . . beyond question the soul is immortal and imperishable, and our souls will truly exist in another world!"_ (Plato, in _Phaedo,_ about 360 BC) ➔ Salvation is not about "where you'll spend eternity." Wrong paradigm! You won't even *_have_* an eternity unless you receive from God the gift of eternal life! Otherwise, you'll perish in that "second death." And that, my friends, is how the God of mercy deals with those who reject Him. In Matthew 25:46 Jesus describes the fate of the unsaved: ■ "And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal." The "everlasting punishment" is the second death, after which there is no life and no hope of resurrection. The punishment of the unsaved is like the execution of a criminal: it is "everlasting" in the sense that it is completed, final, permanent and irrevocable. It is not "everlasting" in the sense of being ongoing, perpetual punishing.
God doesn't send people to hell. Their sin does. We're all born sinners, and the price for sin is death, but Jesus came to pay for our sins, he died instead of us, meaning we don't have to go to hell if we just believe in him. It's as simple as that.
@@oliviamaynard9372 Romans 10 9That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. 10For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. 11For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed. 12For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him.
If Jesus is claiming to be the son of God, (which is pretty significant) how can we simply be called to just have faith when outside of the Bible, there is no evidence to support his existence? Seems more like a plot from the church to convert people. If God gave his son for the whole world, we are already reconciled whether we believe in him or not! The price has been paid. I could not believe in air, doesn’t meant I’m not breathing it. It doesn’t discount its existence so it shouldn’t matter!
Just found this channel. I've been familiar with Julie for some time. Her book was the beginning of my freedom from fear and introduced me to a God of Love and Grace. I look forward to more of your podcasts. Thank you.
I have always thought of hell as simply the true separation from God. The burn lake of fire was a symbol for the pain of never knowing or finding that true self in Christ
@@weirdflex8158 joseph originally was going to return Mary to her father when he found she was pregnant, and receive back what he had payed for her because she was now damaged goods. The old testament has loads but the easy one is in the ten commandments do not commit adultery. The actual language used originally has to with how you deal with damaged property and property exchange. The language used to describe how a woman should behave to her husband is the same language used for how a slave should interact with their husbands. There are whole sections describing what is a fair exchange for a wife.
I’ve come across this channel recently and am so happy I’ve found a Christian channel willing to talk about topics I have many questions about. But in relation to this conversation I think it’s raised more questions than answers for me. Like saying if hell exists, God is worse than Hitler I think takes away from the just nature of God. I believe hell does exist but maybe not the way it’s been sold to us. It’s more about suffering eternal separation from God after death. I cannot bring myself to believe that Hitler, a person who bought about such suffering for so many people, which is completely contrary to the nature of God and is the opposite of bringing about the kingdom of God will not be put to justice for the things he did. I see our relationship with God as kind parental in the sense that just as rewarding the “good” things your child has done, you also must acknowledge when your child has done something “bad” act open this justly. Evil actions have consequences and this doesn’t take away from God’s good nature in my opinion. Please correct me if I’m wrong!! I’m honestly here to learn and gain more understanding not force my opinions.
@@christabelmateta I’m familiar with what it says in the bible, my response was more towards the lady speaking in this video. She bought up a lot of points that contradict what it says in the bible which is why I found her point of view confusing. But I agree with you, thanks for the suggestion x
This youtube channel over-focuses on God's absolute love, while forgetting His absolute justice and holiness and hatred (yes, hatred!) of sin. So you are spot-on: God WILL acknowledge your sin if you have not received Christ's gift of salvation. Hell is real. If you want to know what it is like READ THE BIBLE. Jesus talks more about hell than He does about heaven.
It is obvious that the other two commenters didn't pay attention. The bible wasn't written in english and there is no hell in the original languages. Justice doesn't look like punishment it looks like a change of heart. The transformative and victorious power of cosmic love is that it moves all of us to a change of heart and a sense of reconnection to spirit and each other. We are restored to love and that includes the making of amends and the genuine sorrow and repentence for what was done. So imagine Hitler finally realizing what he did and apologizing to all six million of those people. Do you not think a cosmic humbling of that scale would be justice? What else do you want? And yes imagine the pain of even burning your hand. Now that throughout your whole body for all eternity. To inflict that on trillions of people would make god worse than hitler and if you want to inflict it on even just hiter it makes you worse than him too. So jot that down.
Wonderful episode! Although I do have a question that I'm surprised didn't get addressed in the video. One of the biggest arguments is against Universalism is, "What did Jesus die for if everyone gets to go to heaven?" I'm genuinely curious about the response to this. Does she answer this question in her book? The way that I've come to see this question is that Jesus died for EVERYONE, including sinners, non-believers, etc. I don't think his sacrifice came with a stipulation of, "Well, I'll die for you, but you have to believe in me." I think he died for every person ever. I'm just curious as to what you or Julie have to say on the topic.
I am currently working on my faith in Jesus, but the way I see it, if Jesus was God on Earth and Universalism is the truth (I believe in universalism), then Jesus' death, ressurection, our belief and acceptance of that, then Jesus' sacrifice could be seen as a shortcut of sorts. Those who believe and repent will go straight to heaven, and those who do not go to hell for however long they need to for punishment followed by restoration.
I may be a athiest, but my answear to that would be Jesus took a punishment for you, so that after death, you didnt have a long, hellish trek to get to heaven. So I know time doesnt really exist after death but if a believer and a non believer died at the same time, the believer would immediately go to heaven, while the non believer took like 100 years to get there.
john 3 16“For God so loved the world,i that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. 17For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him. 18Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only Son of God.
I was raised Catholic and we believe in purgatory but I have no idea if it's actually true. Jesus did give a example(I dont know the verse) where he sent a man to prison to be purified because he had sinned even after he was forgiven by God. Maybe there is a place for those who died in sin but don't deserve hell, a place where they can be purified before they are accepted into heaven.
and then you have people like me that because of the damage done by religion can't return to it because of the fact that I have developed mental illness due to the damage done. I love watching you because I do agree with you but it is a lil too late for some of us that now think all who are Christian are a threat to our mental well being.
I was in this same position for years & years, but recently I’ve been feeling a conviction to come back to Christ (not evangelicalism). Something that hit me really hard was a actually a quote from the Jubilee episode Brenda was in: “God never hurt me, the Church hurt me.” I don’t think I could ever return to the Church, but the realization that God *isn’t* a religion, but pure love & compassion, really brought peace to my life.
Jesus didn’t die to offer fire insurance. Jesus died Not for us but To us, to rescue us from SIN(our own self destruction and alienation from The GOD) Jesus didn’t die to appease the “Father’s wrath” on the contrary Jesus came to reveal the Father to show us that He’s never been angry and that his love is beyond our human understanding and that He longs for relationship with each and everyone and that is the gospel(good news) so according to the Father “sin” has been dealt with through His son what remains to this day is simply the lie that is promoted by organized “Christianity” mainly PROTESTANTISM . Now...hell is from pagan origin this concept about the netherworld where the gods send the evildoers to be punished. But it has been inserted in these extremely political and religious biased mainstream Bibles such as the King James. The apostle Paul stated that we all are going to go through the fire but is not HELL is the refining and purifying fire of our LOVING father so fire is good fire is medicinal. There’s nothing to be afraid of because Jesus is the perfect love himself and perfect love cast out all fears. As someone that has studied a little bit of theology I can assure you that GOD is beyond religion he’s beyond “Christianity” Protestantism and evangelicalism has caused so much damage to the name of Jesus what they promote as “gospel” is nothing but a weird mishmash of Gnosticism Judaism and Greco Roman philosophy. God is the light God is the love himself God is our creator our father that manifested in the flesh through his son Jesus.
@@fromhell1980 that was a very long and rambly paragraph that did not answer the question: why did jesus die? (also what about unforgivable sin?) I'm very amenable to the idea that hell is fictional but these two points are still holding me back
@@ThePirateNerdJen these people are demons an that’s why they fear hell. They want to convince themselves that they can keep sinning with no consequences. After all, if there is no hell, why bother following scripture? Their sins have won them over.
Thank you so much for this! I’ve been deconstructing for about 6 months now and I keep hearing about hell not being real but I never understood. This was so perfect to explain everything to me, thank you so much! Your channel has been such a source of freedom for me.
@@matildesalvalaio8667 ask Him to come into your heart, talk to him like you would a friend and see if you feel differently. I also suggest reading The Unseen Realm by Michael Heiser (He's wonderful) and watch his talks on salvation ( he has a podcast called the Naked Bible Podcast or just youtube it) God wants us to be in his family.. He does love us, the whole Bible is basically a rescue mission for mankind, so of course God loves us if He is willing to save us. Praying for you both!
All you guys are telling this person is that just focus on the good parts of The Bible and forget about this abusive father we have over here that will torture you forever if you don't do one thing right. None of you know what you are talking about . Don't worry about h*** because no God Worthy of being served would torture you forever . It's just a tactic used by evangelicals to keep butts in the seats. I don't know if those who refuse to see the love of Christ will be Annihilated or eventually saved by I no they won't be tortured forever Or as she said God is even worse than Hitler
Your guest saw people as "throwaways" - perhaps some deeper exploration of how destructive that can be - especially for those who know they've been culturally condemned in this way. This broke my heart to hear. While I appreciate her honesty in sharing how she used to view some people, I think it should be stated that those words still cut, as someone who's seen this happen to people and experienced the judgement personally. If one feels they can condemn others, are they not acting as if they have the judgment of God themselves, and thus spreading evil?
It's interesting me when they appeal to scripture to refute the idea of eternal judgment in hell but they also spent time saying the bible has error... I pray they would repent of their false gospel. Jesus died because of His love, yes but also because we are wretched sinners in need of a savior!
Scripture does not teach everlasting punishment, that's a choice of interpretation. The Bible makes no reference to heII. If you see it in your Bible, it's a mistranslation. The gospel is that God's king is here with all that implies - God will establish equity and a just society - so submit to him now. Yes, Jesus died because we are sinners. I'm still open to whether or not all will ultimately be saved, but if not, then Jesus failed.
Richard Rohr’s book the universal Christ has an interesting answer to this. A concept called “Restorative Justice” look it up if you’re interested. It can widen one’s perspective.
There would have been eternal hell if Jesus hadn't died. Simple. Jesus died for everyone and so if universalism is true then it means that jesus' death was 100 percent successful
Agree. Also, In the Apostles Creed it says Jesus descended into Hell. Christ conquered death for us. Jesus’s death and resurrection are incredibly important beliefs Christians hold.
If that's the cause, then millions of people got murdered by gods people and then got sent to hell forever. Why should I trust a god who's that bad at planning?
Really really loved this video, thank you for taking the time and energy to talk about all of these issues. This kind of stuff has really helped me to realize that I don't have to give up my faith based on my life experiences.
The part about “lip service” and fear is so true. I feel like that fear was my childhood through early adult years. But now mid-30’s having that change of heart has really helped us stand for God and equal rights.
It was my understanding that hell wasnt a place, or rather a place you go when you die lol but rather a state of being or reference to sin. Based on my understanding from religious scholars, hell can be a state of being separate from god. I also was under the impression that through the translation process, hell also was just used interchangeably with “sin” and the concept of “speaking hell” (lying, being hurtful to others, obviously denouncing god) would result in punishment, often death, but eventually death, punishment, and hell were all mixed up and it became the punishment, as a tool for religious elites to manipulate and control the lower class and marginalized groups like women and slaves.
@@BR-nv8bw Robert P Jones, Barbara Brown Taylor , and Marcus Borg off the top of my head are pretty good. Edit: if you meant the part about the historical context of how the idea of “hell”, “sin” and the adversary in Udeochridtisn tradition (fun fact there was no devil in any of the older Jewish or Christian texts, “the satan” was a character and he was a special and holy prosecutor of the heavenly kingdom and god, “the devil” was not relevant or present during the temptation of eve I. Genesis btw... and the idea of a devil, especially with spooky goat features comes from the influence of an old ass religion from Babylon once the two communities began to exchange information and customs).. But yeah if you meant like scholars/theologians/theologists confirming this theory, i haven’t really seen any credible scholars AT ALL dispute this. It’s more a matter of finding the actual scholarly works and not sone rando preacher pretending his bible study equates to a PhD. Those are just more in line with Brenda’s tradition/take a more critical and extensive approach compared to others though. I can list more if you’re just looking for general radical/prog theos. Scholars aren’t always even religious themselves or they have a much deeper connection and willingness to learn and understand even if it’s not what they grew up with remains in their comfort zone. But like this is the current accepted historical context as far as the most original source material. The fundie style changes we see today were things gradually sprinkled in between both changing and exchanging culture as well as for the top dogs to monopolize bargaining power
I remember I read a book when I was a child and there was a horrific drawing about hell. I remember I was afraid soooo much. I even had nightmares about burning alive in hell..... Kinda traumatic. I still have a fear from fire and burning, hot things. And of course I was always told that I will meet in heaven with the people I love. But my grandfather was not a christian, he never went to church. Is he in hell? Then how I will meet with him? And when I asked my parents they never said anything. Like be good and you will be in heaven. But I dont want eternity. We live, we die. I dont wanna live forever. And I'm pretty sure that I won't meet my friends, grandparents in heaven. So what's the point?
I'm not particularly concerned with any kind of afterlife because it's such a fundamentally unknowable thing, and it's often used to sidestep practical concerns. That said, when the topic comes up I think of myself as a hopeful universalist. I find myself most in-line with the thinking of Hans Urs von Balthasar, who highlighted that there are passages in the New Testament which suggest a version of Hell (most notably the Parable of the Sheep and the Goats in Matt. 25), and there are passages which seem to pretty directly state that all will be saved. He contended that, while it is a natural impulse to try to reconcile these by either interpreting the damnation passages in light of the reconciliation ones or vice-versa, we should instead let the tension remain; we cannot know. However, he also argued that, since we are supposed to love all mankind, it is the duty of the Christian to hope that all shall be saved. More than that, he believed we have a reasonable basis for such a hope in the sheer depths to which Christ went to save humanity.
YES!!! Guess the "lake of fire" in the last book of the Bible ( Revelation ) is not going to mentioned as well ! The word "hell" is not specifically mentioned thus people can brush it away yet also conveniently forget the story of Lazarus and the rich man in the Bible and the rich man dying and in a place of torment and pain etc etc etc !!!
This is one of my main objections with Christianity. Think about it. All of Hitler's victims would be burning not just in the ovens at Aushwitz, but in Hell forever. That's pretty messed up when you give it some thought.
If this woman cannot define what the true Gospel is which is that Jesus died for our sins as the sacrificial substitute and was raised again on the 3rd day and that salvation is in Christ alone and not in works, then her Christianity is highly questionable. She defined the Gospel as something that brings people out of poverty/ sickness etc.. this is not the Gospel. That is the false prosperity Gospel. The good news is that Jesus Christ has finished the work on the cross so that you do not have to earn your salvation because salvation is given as a free gift which leads to a person humbling themselves in repentance for realizing how amazing this gift of salvation was that we have never deserved. This is the Christ-centered Gospel and the Gospel is not self-improvement. This sounds more like a New Age type of false Christianity.
my only question is, if hell isn’t real (which would be dope), then why did Jesus die? what was he protecting us from? why do we need to be washed clean of our sin if we can be sinful and still go to heaven
11:30 - Actually, the idea of defining sin as separation from God is alien to Judaism. Such a notion would be seen as a denial of God's omnipresence. Of course, I'm an Atheist, so for me, it's just the mythology of my ancestors --- but still, this notion that Judaism defines sin in such a way (as well as other distortions that Christians often make of Judaism) needs to be addressed because such distortions are very tied to the power dynamic of uneven cultural exchange.
@Berry Blue --- I understand that that is her spiritual interpretation. My comment was not in response to her saying that _she_ sees sin in that manner -- but rather to her statement that historically Jews saw it that way ---- as should have been evidenced by the timestamp-code that I placed at the very start of the comment.
As a person who was raised christian in multiple denominations (southern baptist, catholic, pentacostal and non-denominational) and converted to Judaism this was such an interesting video.
Isaiah 53 Who hath believed our report? and to whom is the arm of the LORD revealed? 2For he shall grow up before him as a tender plant, and as a root out of a dry ground: he hath no form nor comeliness; and when we shall see him, there is no beauty that we should desire him. 3He is despised and rejected of men; a man of sorrows, and acquainted with grief: and we hid as it were our faces from him; he was despised, and we esteemed him not. 4Surely he hath borne our griefs, and carried our sorrows: yet we did esteem him stricken, smitten of God, and afflicted. 5But he was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace was upon him; and with his stripes we are healed. 6All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way; and the LORD hath laid on him the iniquity of us all. 7He was oppressed, and he was afflicted, yet he opened not his mouth: he is brought as a lamb to the slaughter, and as a sheep before her shearers is dumb, so he openeth not his mouth. 8He was taken from prison and from judgment: and who shall declare his generation? for he was cut off out of the land of the living: for the transgression of my people was he stricken. 9And he made his grave with the wicked, and with the rich in his death; because he had done no violence, neither was any deceit in his mouth. 10Yet it pleased the LORD to bruise him; he hath put him to grief: when thou shalt make his soul an offering for sin, he shall see his seed, he shall prolong his days, and the pleasure of the LORD shall prosper in his hand. 11He shall see of the travail of his soul, and shall be satisfied: by his knowledge shall my righteous servant justify many; for he shall bear their iniquities. 12Therefore will I divide him a portion with the great, and he shall divide the spoil with the strong; because he hath poured out his soul unto death: and he was numbered with the transgressors; and he bare the sin of many, and made intercession for the transgressors.
reminded to young/christians: We cannot “come back to the knowledge that we are one with God.” When we become Christians God pours out his holy spirit into us and it dwells in us . God’s Holy Spirit is what makes us Heirs of God’s Kingdom or princesses and princes of heaven. We are not equal to God because he is the creator and we are the created. That fact should brings us to true humility so that as we learn to follow Christ we don’t get a “big” head. Jesus was a servant not a celebrity ready to make everyone see God as a genie God or a lovedy dovey God.
“An eye for an eye” isn’t in the Bible either: that’s the Code of Hammurabi. what you say here about it is exactly correct though: the point of the Code of Hammurabi was to limit the punishments that could be meted out by judges and magistrates. I do not believe the world is fundamentally just or that abusers are brought to justice by God. What I believe is that that injustice however is created by humans and that God wants us to overturn it. The world can be just, but it is not just yet.
It's in the Bible, but it's meaning is not that you have to take revenge for what has been done to you, but it limits your revenge. You can only take the same. But when Jesus says to turn the other cheek he basically shows that God's intension is to show it's better to not take revenge at all.
LEX TALIONIS. A law of retaliation by which the guilty party suffers the same harm as that experienced by the injured party. In biblical as in modern law the primary example of taliation is capital punishment for a judgment of murder (Gen 9:6, “Whoever sheds man’s blood, by man shall his blood be shed”; Exod 21:12, “Whoever strikes a man so that he dies, he shall surely be put to death”; Lev 24:21, “Whoever kills a man shall be put to death”), although some commentators would restrict the term “talion” to nonfatal bodily injuries. The classic formulation of taliation in biblical law is “life for life, eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot, burning for burning, wound for wound, stripe for stripe” (Exod 21:23-25). This text is popularly quoted as “an eye for an eye (and a tooth for a tooth),” following Matt 5:38, and is popularly regarded as a summation of biblical law. What occasions the detailed statement in Exodus 21 is the difficulty of appropriate punishment in the complex case of injury to a pregnant woman who gets caught up in a fight among men and suffers a miscarriage and possible further consequences, even death. (Exod 21:22-25, however, has several indications of complex redaction and scholars differ widely in reconstruction and interpretation.) A similar talionic statement occurs with reference to causing permanent bodily injury to a neighbor-“as he has done so it will be done to him: injury for injury, eye for eye, tooth for tooth; as he has injured a man, so shall it be done to him” (Lev 24:19-20). The principle of taliation is also invoked with reference to compensation for the death of a stock animal-the negligent owner of a dangerous ox gives “ox for ox” (Exod 21:36), and someone who kills another’s animal gives restitution, “life for life” (Lev 24:18). In the case of false testimony, the penalty for the allegation is carried out on the perjuring party-“You shall do to him as he intended to do to his brother” (Deut 19:19). The added warning states, “You shall not show pity, but life for life, eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot” (Deut 19:21). Biblical law does not know of the vicarious talion illustrated in the Laws of Hammurapi (## 116, 210, 230; cf. Middle Assyrian Laws ## A 50-52) in which someone responsible for the death of a citizen’s son or daughter has his son or daughter put to death. The biblical emphasis is on punishment of the guilty person-“everyone will be put to death for his own sin,” Deut 24:16; “so it will be done to him,” Lev 24:19-although vicarious punishment is known in extralegal situations. Also, unlike the Laws of Hammurapi (## 196-205), biblical law does not restrict the operation of talion to a specific class-talion among equals, but a fine if the injured person is of lower status. H. B. Huffmon, “Lex Talionis,” ed. David Noel Freedman, The Anchor Yale Bible Dictionary (New York: Doubleday, 1992), 321.
God, people, what's wrong with you, do you call yourself Christians while rejecting parts of the Holy Scripture just to be profitable for you? Are you seriously saying that Christians but at the same time saying that hell is unreal? Hell is real and yet how. And if you are afraid of hell, then the problem is not in hell itself, but in you and in your beliefs. Therefore, stop spreading false teaching.
Scripture is fallible. Jesus didn’t hand humanity the Bible. The Bible was written and compiled long after Jesus was gone. Books were written for it and then left out. It’s been translated into multiple versions across multiple languages. There are contradictions and mistranslations in it because it was written down by fallible people. The Bible may be divinely inspired, but it’s not perfect. If God have humanity free will, then God gave humanity the ability to misinterpret his teachings and compile them into an imperfect text. Therefore, just because hell is mentioned in the Bible doesn’t necessarily mean it’s real. It could just be a human error.
People forget that Hitler created Hell for others, but he also created Hell for himself. Hitler lived in torment. Hell and Heaven are things we create for others and ourselves.
Hell is real. The purpose of Jesus dying on the cross was so He could save us from our sins and save us from going to hell when we die. God does not want to send us to hell! People send themselves to hell by rejecting God and rejecting salvation. Read the Word! God can and will help and accept you. Romans 5: 8-9: "But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us. Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him." The Bible says to just call on Jesus' name, confess that you are a sinner, know that Jesus died for YOUI and you shall be saved!
We don't know the actual truth. Just my opinion. Also, question: how did Jesus have beautiful hair if there was no hair products or hair brushes around his time?
but not telling is immoral as well. That's like not telling the child the stove is hot because you don't want to expose them to burns ... It also hugely depends on what version of hell you are telling. Hell is a place where the souls go who have no connection to the divine love that keeps humanity and the heart of god beating. Hell is not the place however where you get sent whenever you don't do something your church or pastor tells you to be doing. The problem isn't hell but the context in which it is put.
@@BrutusAlbion there's so much to unpack here.. I would like to point out that the bible firstly has very rough translations. And telling kids and not telling kids can be both equalliy immoral.
@@BrutusAlbion Trump is the president because millions of people were, as children, on zero evidence, told that Hell is real. There is nothing petty about childhood religious indoctrination. If you have any good evidence for the existence of Hell, please share it.
But wasn't Dante's INFERNO written much more recently than the time of Augustine of Hippo (a.k.a. Saint Augustine)? I mean, Augustine of Hippo died in 430 CE while Dante wasn't to be born until 1265 CE ---- so the notion that Augustine took _anything_ written by Dante and did _anything_ with it simply doesn't fit chronology.
Hell is what you put yourself through to burn off karma in each life. It can be a slow life process or an intense place of symbolic burning to burn karma at a heavy rate. There is no eternal place of pain and torment. Eternal torment makes absolutely no sense and is out of step with a loving,forgiving God.
The word hell in the bible means a fire that burns a corpse, and not a place where sinners are sent to burn for eternity after they die. Terms such as eternal damnation and hell fire are ideas that were made up by Churches.
2 Thess 1 8In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ: 9Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power; Rev 14 9And the third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, If any man worship the beast and his image, and receive his mark in his forehead, or in his hand, 10The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb: 11And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name.
wow, the Martin Luther Hitler connection, you don't learn that in your confirmation classes now do you? :O and yet, Martin Luther can be credited with good things, for example wide spread literacy in Europe, but the fact that Luther held these beliefs explains a lot about modern Protestantism
i’ve been asking myself for the past 2 years why is there a hell ? yes i know we all have free will. to me it’s just confusing to why God who loves us ALL who is forgiving , would let his people who could change in “ hell” let people suffer
Of course it’s real, it’s where I’m going! At least that’s what my own Aunty told me when I was 14 years old...and I didn’t even quite realize that I was gay yet, but I suppose she felt it was okay to tell her nephew that he would burn in hell for eternity because she thought he was gay. So yeah, hell must be real ‘cause she was just the first of DOZENS who’ve told me that throughout my 47 years of life. Edit: I do want to mention that I still love my Aunty, and never stopped...I may have been sad and disappointed, but that doesn’t mean I stopped loving her.
I read this and I’m extremely sorry you were told this by so many people. As Christians no one is permitted to place such judgement you especially when you are that young and haven’t realised. Please know that does not reflect Jesus’s heart and love for you in the slightest. He loves you more than you can ever imagine, always has. He wants a relationship with you and to see you happy❤️
@@michaelahicks6212 Aw, Michaela, THIS is a Christian comment! ❤️ I was raised Buddhist, and we are taught many of the same tenets of Jesus Christ...and I’m sure that he’d be proud of your comment, and he’d be very sad to see the kinds of hate statements and actions that his other followers are making in his name. He taught love, acceptance, charity, kindness, etc. and befriended social outcasts...which is in stark contrast to many of his current followers. The reason I never qualify all Christians, or ever most Christians, as bad is because of people like you, Brenda, and a lot of my friends who spread Jesus Christ’s actual messages. Anyway, I hope u and ur ohana are staying safe and healthy during this pandemic. Lotsa love and aloha from Honolulu! 😁❤️🤙🏽🌈☀️ (just symbols of Hawai’i)
I’m sorry for what your aunt said to you as a child. I was saved at 22 when I lived a very sinful life. People go to hell for not placing their faith in Jesus which causes repentance. When we repent (turn from sin) we don’t make a practice of sin anymore. At 22 during my salvation experience I didn’t want to live in sin anymore. Jesus became more important than myself. I just wanted to serve my Lord.
@@lightabounds77 Thanks. Honestly, I would bet money that I live a more “Christian” life than most. My belief has always been, and it’s one that both my parents engrained in us, to think about others before myself...and part of that is having empathy and seeing things from other people’s perspectives. Call me crazy, but I’d like to think that God would rather us spend our time and energy treating each other well, with kindness, compassion, and charity...rather than simply pledging allegiance to him. The former aligns much more with the teachings of Jesus, and the latter seems a bit egocentric and I like to think that God wouldn’t be that way. But what do I know? I’m just a Buddhist who enjoys learning about other religions. 😁 Being a perennial optimist, even though many Christians have told me abhorrent and disconcerting things over the years, I like to think that Christianity itself and the majority of Christians are good.
@@jen8441 Thank you, Jen. And for the record (and I’ll edit my original comment), I have ZERO animosity towards my aunt...I never did. I was just really sad ‘cause she had always been my favourite Aunty since she’s the closest to my age (I have a big family...each generation spans about 30 years). Some back story, her first husband left her and she was coming to church with us, not for the religious aspect, just for the family support...then she met her second husband who was a devout Christian, but also bad mouthed all of us because we weren’t Christian...which leads up to her statement. My folks raised me not to hold grudges, to forgive but not forget, and to not be jealous...admittedly, though very rare, the last one does happen from time to time. Hehe. #Humanity My folks also made a distinction between unconditional love and morality....if we ever did something wrong, they’d still love us, but they’d expect us to do the right thing and hold ourselves accountable, even if that meant incarceration. Morality was a very big deal to them, and I like to think that it is for most Christian families. Anyway, lotsa love and aloha from Honolulu.
I can only tell u what I believe, Ok here we go. I believed for two years that I was living in Hell, because of what was happening to me. I was abused almost daily during that time. Being so young at the time I felt alone and nothing was changing that made me feel like I would ever be safe again, and there was no one to guide me. One day my abuser just left and I tried to just let it go. As u know it did not work and something would happen to trigger that pain again and again. Sorry I did not mean to unload my problems on all of U.
Hi honey, I hope you are doing better now. I hope you have some support in your immediate environment you can go to when things get tough. We love and want the best for you! Ill have you in my thoughts
@@greymilk Thank u very much, That was a long time ago, but sometimes I will be fine and then someone will just say something and trigger those emotions again. I have been helping others who have gone through the same type of things when I can and that helps a lot. Thank u again and be safe.
@@annasthoughtsandmusicalpar2239 Yes I am Ok. What about u? I hope u are Doing Ok now. For me it took a long time to get back to a stable life and I made many mistakes getting there. I was 9 when my abuse started, and my youth caused much of my teen yrs to be hard. Thank u again and I hope u are Ok now. If u would like to talk Please let me know and I will give u my private e-mail or Instagram?
Pleeeaaase talk about veganism! I’m agnostic in a Christian family and everyone says it’s ok to kill them but not torture them. It just doesn’t make sense to me since pain is equally as unwanted as death for an animal. So why should we care only about an animals interest in not suffering but not their interest in living? No one can answer me this. Also, what about the golden rule? Do unto others as you would have done unto you. Do animals not count as others? We don’t want to be killed for a 5 minute meal, neither do animals. The reasons and excuses I have encountered by Christians all rely on denying the subjective experience of the animals. They reject my language when I refer to them as “who,” “someone,” or include them as “others/individuals.” They say I’m “humanizing” or “personifying” them. I find it ridiculous to say being an individual or someone is exclusive to humans, even if you believe we have a soul. In what sense does having a soul make our tastebuds more worthy than the lives of those without a soul? At the same time, they call animals “it.” It’s clear to me that they see animals as machines/objects in order to discount the idea that we should even consider placing their lives at a higher value than our taste buds and convenience.
The Bible teaches that we can eat animals. Remember the Bible is about morality, so the message is that eating animals is not inherently immoral, that it’s natural. It’s the cycle of life playing out. This does not excuse animal abuse, obviously. But taking what you need from the natural world in a sustainable way is not “wrong” in and of itself. Btw modern science shows that plants cry out when cut and eaten, meaning they feel pain. So if you take veganism to it’s logical conclusion, you’ll be left with nothing to eat. Many people need meat biologically, it has to do with how their lineage evolved. Being vegan can be a beautiful personal choice, especially in the current meat industry, but eating meat is not a sin.
I don't believe in hell as it is in the bible, the descriptive words like a fire burning eternity are just to exaggerate to people how painful it is down there. I believe a hell is just a dark place for evil people. like soul therapy but they don't stay there forever. but that's just my theology. I choose to believe that God is just loving and he wouldn't send the people he loves to burn in hell for eternity.
But that isn’t in the Bible tho... The Bible talks about the Jewish afterlife called “Sheol” which was a generic afterlife for everyone. “Hell” is a medieval folktale meant to scare small children.
I think the problem is to think that salvation and judgement are locally. Salvation is putting on Christ amd some do not do that. Since being the image of Christ and doing what God loves is truly being human, those who sin and do evil and work against love, would become more and more corrupted and eventually lose their humanity. If that state continues in eternity - I think it's quite dangerous. Remember that Adam and Eve get chased out of Eden so that they would not eat from the tree of life im their sinful state. Eternal life is not meant for the sinner I think. Eternal torment hence neither. I think there will be second death for those who chose to not love God and it will be finite.
Man, the mental liberty she talks about regarding our children.... Being a parent has SO many stressors, and the relief I've felt in realizing that the fear of hell is not needed is priceless.
You are sorely mistaken. You need to meditate on what free will means and more importantly what it implies. God made us truly free beings, capable of even going against him and rejecting him. He will not violate our free will, he will not force us to be with him if we don’t want. If we are not willing to let go of our sins, we won’t be able to be with him. It’s terrifying how much freedom we have, but only by having such freedom that we are able to reject God can we truly love him as he loves us, and only that way can we have true reciprocal love. This channel is satanic. Not even trying to be mean, it really is, the morals preached on this channel align more with the church of satan than any Christian tradition. No amount of spin or self justification can make any of it okay in God’s eyes. God has very clearly laid it out for us, how we should act and what we should be against, he is not a god of confusion. I think you all know deep down that you are just kidding yourselves anyways. The good thing is, we only need faith to be saved, but what is faith? It’s having faith in and adhering to the word of God and his teachings that have been revealed to us. It’s having enough faith that you can admit your views and feelings and the worlds views are wrong even though you feel it’s right. Stop deluding yourself, you and the girl that runs this channel aren’t Christian and have made a god out of yourselves and your own erroneous sense of morality. Idk if you’ll keep what I’ve said in mind at all but worth a try, this is a road to destruction.
@@JA-jx1hk Gee, thanks so much for your pedantic and condescending reply. I would have said very similar things the first 30 years of my life. I'm thankful I am freer now than I ever was then. True freedom comes from no condemnation and no fear. I hope someday you can experience it too.
I'm not Christian and never really have been, but I was exposed to Christian ideas growing up. From that perspective, I think the most healing thing for people with fear or trauma relating to hell is to understand that it does not exist. It's an invention of human culture, full stop. There is nothing to fear from that. As someone who has always been inspired by the story of Lucifer, though, I sometimes like to think about how if hell does exist, I know the guy in charge, and he is good and kind. If heaven and hell were real in any sense at all, we'd have a myriad of philosophical and ethical problems, but still, it's nice to feel like, even if it were true on some level, Lucifer would protect me. He would try to ensure that I suffer as little as possible. Heaven is exclusive, but hell is inclusive. There's nothing in particular you need to do to get in (other than not get into heaven, I suppose). And Lucifer would be there to give a warm welcome to all of society's misfits and rejects, to heal them of the cruelty they experienced on earth.
The common concept of hell is immoral in every aspect. Its indefensible, especially from a all knowing god. Even dantes inferno is a slightly better version since it distinguishes separate punishments for each "sin". To treat every sin as the same and its everlasting torture, means god is not only all knowing, hes not just either.
@47 IQ no? Have you forgotten how god commanded that thou shall not kill and then a just a few pages later he command moses and his army kill every man, women, child, and animal? I mean, your account is only a week old so you're probably just trolling. But whatever, more comments help brenda. So I don't mind. But if your looking to try and somehow get into a insult match to validate your life, you're not going to find it here. So please, make a moral argument for eternal torture for a finite crime.
@47 IQ I noticed you ignored my response again. That only helps shows your true motives, you know that right? Try not to cut yourself on that edge there boy.
@47 IQ except the problem of evil is not what I was bringing up. Please try to actually stay on the correct topic if youre going to pretend to outsmart anyone.
Dante's inferno was written much after st. Augustine died... Maybe you mean that the canonized version of hell was rather based inf Zoroastrianism rather the the original Greek and Hebrew?
@@weirdflex8158 . Except we actually know that living in fear hinders knowedlge. It keeps one in thier comfort zone, unwilling to accept new information, and keeps love from being genuine.
I definitely don't believe in hell anymore, but after being raised evangelical I still have occasional flashes of fear about hell. It's such a harmful belief to be taught.
What’s harmful is telling people there is no hell when the Bible is so clear on the fact that there is a hell. Idk how people can just ignore that which is a big part of the Bible. That’s the work of the devil deceiving people into thinking there will be no consequences for disobeying God’s word
Marina the Bible doesn't give a clear idea of hell at all, and reading the Bible is one of the reasons I don't believe it is real. This video by God is Grey goes much more in-depth in what the Bible talks about (Sheol and Gehenna for example). There is so much good information out there. Also, this place is supposed to be a safe space for those who have endured spiritual trauma (which many have experienced from teachings of hell). So please be mindful of that. There is no proof of hell. It makes no sense, and the idea of hell today came about through many different sources and people (many outside of the Bible as well). It is truly a fear tactic by religions.
@@SapphirePanorama You can choose to believe there isn’t a hell, but the devil is deceiving you. For there is a hell a “lake of fire.” And it’s eternal for those who follow flesh instead of the word of God. Here are several passages from the Bible about hell, which is the “lake of fire.” And you can choose to ignore it, but it won’t make it any less true. Hell is a not a place you want to go, it’s terrifying, but denying its existence just shows that you don’t believe the words of Bible or the words of God, therefore calling him a liar. Jesus describes it as a place “…where the worms that eat them do not die and the fire is not quenched” (Mark 9:48). “But as for the cowardly, the faithless, the detestable, as for murderers, the sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars, their portion will be in the lake that burns with fire and sulfur, which is the second death.” Revelations 21:8 “And do not fear those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. Rather fear him who can destroy both soul and body in hell.” Matthew 10:28 “And these will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.” Matthew 25:46 “And the devil who had deceived them was thrown into the lake of fire and sulfur where the beast and the false prophet were, and they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.” Revelation 20:10 “And if anyone's name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire.” Revelation 20:15 “But I say to you that everyone who is angry with his brother will be liable to judgment; whoever insults his brother will be liable to the council; and whoever says, ‘You fool!’ will be liable to the hell of fire.” Matthew 5:22 “For if we go on sinning deliberately after receiving the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins, but a fearful expectation of judgment, and a fury of fire that will consume the adversaries. Anyone who has set aside the law of Moses dies without mercy on the evidence of two or three witnesses. How much worse punishment, do you think, will be deserved by the one who has spurned the Son of God, and has profaned the blood of the covenant by which he was sanctified, and has outraged the Spirit of grace? For we know him who said, “Vengeance is mine; I will repay.” And again, “The Lord will judge his people.” ...” Hebrews 10:26-31
Marina I truly don't understand why you've come to this space. It's okay to have genuine questions and to grapple with Bible verses, the concept of hell, and what people have said about this throughout history. But throwing Bible verses at someone isn't convincing at all. You're reminding me completely of the toxic Christianity I grew up with. That further pushes me from wanting to do anything with a religion like that. It's harmful and deeply manipulative, full of contradictions and toxic ideas. This conversation doesn't seem capable of going anywhere, so I wish you the best.
@@SapphirePanorama I didn’t come to tell people they’re going to hell because I deserve hell just like everyone else for not following God’s commandments. I came to tell the truth which apparently is too much for people these days, you said you read the Bible and now you know there’s no hell, and I gave you the Bible verses to show you that there is.And now you’re just blowing me off because I gave you some verses that showed you that this channel is lying. God is a judge and he’s loving but he’s also a judge, and you can’t expect a judge to not give punishment to people who don’t follow him. God sent his son Jesus to die on the cross for our sins so we could have eternal life with him and so that he could save us from hell if we repented and trusted in Him. I think you misunderstood what I was trying to show you, because I was telling you this out of love for your eternal life, not from hatred. You should go and have this discussion with a priest because he is much more knowledgeable than I am, I wish you the best of luck but I wasn’t gonna lie to you.
I didn’t watch the entire video, just skimmed through cause it was too upsetting. Did she actually say that there’s no evidence of hell? That’s insane. Do you know around what time stamp she says that?
She clearly explains the words of Jesus by stating what the Greek and Hebrew words were incorrectly translated into English as 'hell' actually referred to in the original language. She did study, she's been studying this concept for years and wrote a book on it.
@@Aging_Casually_Late_Gamer well ignorance on this topic is definitely ore now than ever because if this progressive so called Christianity nonsense. It proves to me that this topic needs to be preached more just like the early fathers did.
There's no reason to fear hell since God provided a way out, so why is this still so hard for so many peopIe? I guess if we want to live our lives the way we want and not have to feel accountable to God, and to not follow his rules, then we can create reasons and deceive ourselves into thinking the Bible doesn't actually mean what it says, that Hell isn't actually real, that sin isn't really sin, and a host of other lies. Eventually, this leads to believing that God won't really hold you accountable for what you do on this earth, and that it doesn't matter if you accept the plan of salvation or not, and then ultimately, a belief that God doesn't exist -- or that He's not involved with us. God doesn't want anyone to perish - 2 Peter 3:9 Jesus is the only way out of eternal death -- John 14:6 Anyone who wants to be rescued, can be; It's their choice -- John 3:16 / Romans 10:9-13
"Why is this still so hard for people?" Because the existence of the burning hell is contradictory to the existence of all just, all knowing, all living god. Its immoral in every aspect.
@@Aging_Casually_Late_Gamer you seem to forget that God doesn’t send anyone to hell, you choose hell when you go with the devil and follow what he wants you to do, which is go against God and his word. God created Hell for the devil and those that fell with him, and the devil wants us to all fall with him. Hell is the absence of God’s presence. God won’t force you to be in his presence so if you don’t choose to follow his words, why do you think you deserve to live in eternity with his presence?
@@Marina-wh3yu no, the ball is still in gods court. I dont choose to go to hell. And if mere disbelief makes one go to hell, that's still god sending people there. Telling people they "send themselves there" is no different than telling a women it's her fault she got raped. And it still doesnr justify the immorality of hell.
@@Aging_Casually_Late_Gamer “But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.” Revelation 21. God doesn’t lie, he sent Jesus to die on the cross to save us from hell, and if you still don’t repent and follow his words, there’s nothing he can do. God is righteous and the devil is tricking this whole country into thinking God is just “love.” God is wrathful and he is loving, but our human brains can’t comprehend that.
@@Marina-wh3yu 1. You're quoting revelation, so unless you think a literal 10 headed dragon is going to come up out of the sea, then merely quoting that doesnt mean anything. 2. God absolutely lies. Reread your bible. 3. "Theres nothing he can do", really? God cant do something? Since when is god bound by anything? 4. God being wrathful is once again showing that god cannot be love. In the bible it says love is not jealous, yet god says hes a jelous god. Love is not wrathful, yet god is wrathful. He cannot be both. And 5. Not only does your reply not justify hell, your quoting of revelation also shows the complete Injustice in it. Unbelievers are the same as murderers? Lying is the same as murdering? That's not justice in any form. Which again shows the immorality of it all.
I might not agree 100% with everything you guys talked about....but I loved watching this and loved the conversation and love how you don't push anything on us you just start the conversation!!
I would just like to add to the conversation about hell, that as a person growing up having extremely low selfesteem and probably depresson from early teenage years (have never been diagnosed) the idea of hell terrified me, and put me in a very bad place. Looking back I feel like one of the biggest reasons why I was a believer was because I feared hell (other one was because all my family and friends were religious). Having low selfesteem I was always pretty sure I will go to hell, because I never deemed myself worthy of salvation. It was an endless cycle of fear that kept me seeking God, and this was pretty much the only motivator I had. Now, this is the first time as I was listening to this video that I played with the idea that hell doesn't exist. It seems to give me a vastly different point of view compared to what I've always had, and started me on a journey. I will see where this leads me, hopefully to a place of growth.
@@anonymousdontbotheraboutit2895 I’m anti-theist Where’s the Christian scriptural prohibition of consensual sex outside marriage? The Christian scriptural dictum to sell all your stuff and give the money away is at Luke 14:33. I assume you wrote this message on a borrowed device. Otherwise you need to sell it and give the money away.
Ephesians 5:5 “For this you know, that no fornicator, unclean person, nor covetous man, who is an idolator, has any inheritance in the Kingdom of Christ and God” Fornication is any sexual act outside of marriage. Hope this helps🙏🏽
Don’t Christians and other religious people pick and choose what they want from their holy book? The Bible in 2 Timothy, it tells women not to style their hair in braids and wear gold or pearl jewelry because that was considered ungodly. And I see Christians do it all the time and excuse it as just being a law back then. But then they justify that gay people are going to hell. I bet you wear braids or style your hair, eat shellfish, and wear certain clothing, but tell everyone else who isn’t like you that they’re going to hell. So yes... you, Christians, and other religious people pick and choose what you want from the Bible.
I am glad you cover this. To me, as a pagan, this whole idea of hell belief has been a very interesting topic. I think some of it definently comes from a very rough translation from the bible. I heard the bible has many rough translations. And i must say thanks, brenda! For bringing this to light!
I too agree that a lot of those things that have been addressed from the Bible and especially the many, many contradictions in it are partially if bot fully from the holy scriptures being around for thousands of years just being lost in translation. I’m agnostic and I don’t have super knowledge of the gospel or anything, but it’s insane
The concept of hell(hel) actually comes from your religion,not Judaism or Christianity. Hell in the bible,is Sheol. Sheol is the grave. Death. In paganism,hell is a perpetual and eternal state of torture. As a pagan,you should know this.
@@spiritof6986 Uh that’s not true. First of all there’s many forms of pagan practice just like Christianity but never heard of that one. Mom is a witch and her entire family is in the pagan/craft/Wicca camp. Where did you learn this? Can tou provide a source ?
@@spiritof6986 did a quick google bc again, my mom is not a theologist and her craft has no such character. Anyways straight from the summary/intro on the Wikipedia: “Hel is a figure from Norse mythology who is said to preside over a realm of the same name, where she receives a portion of the dead. Hel is attested in the Poetic Edda, compiled in the 13th century from earlier traditional sources, and the Prose Edda, written in the 13th century by Snorri Sturluson. In addition, she is mentioned in poems recorded in Heimskringla and Egils saga that date from the 9th and 10th centuries, respectively. An episode in the Latin work Gesta Danorum, written in the 12th century by Saxo Grammaticus, is generally considered to refer to Hel, and Hel may appear on various Migration Period bracteates”. However, the concept of an underworld where souls reside after life is a trope that predates this 13 century lore by a long shot (See Hades) who basically did the exact same thing and this was as early as 500-450 BCE .. simply designating a realm for souls to reside after death is not the same as the eternal torture, fire and brimstone, “just-for-the-bhaddies” Christian “hell as an afterlife”. concept that arose from a variety of changing and exchanging cultures. Actually, sone of the earliest and most authentic records of what hell initiallt meant in the Christian sense was svrhsllt just something used interchangeably with sin, and was a state of beinf and not physical place after death- basically the concept of being disconnected from god. Very diff from the Norse lore you mentioned. Also like I have not met a single witch or pagan that follows that very, very old and specific tradition
If you are saved please stay away from this channel 2 Tim 4 3For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears; 4And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.
I've never been able to understand where this concept of hell as a place of torture comes from in regards tae Christianity. Let alone an eternal place. Study these two words; Aionos.Olam. Hebrew and Greek respectively. You will discover that neither translate as 'eternal'. They both translate as 'an age' or 'a period of time'. Hell,in regards tae the bible,is 'sheol'. Sheol is the grave. The concept of hell is pagan. Not Jewish or early Christian. Both groups would have considered the concept tae be disgusting. Hell (hel) as a place of torture,finds its root in paganism. And at least 50% of modern Christianity is based upon pagan concepts and precepts. All verifiable,not personal opinion. Speak tae a Rebbe.
Very good video! Though I'm...more than a little confused about why you seem to be suggesting Dante's Inferno influenced Augustine. Dante lived a fair number of centuries after Augustine so...
Your understanding of how we got to the current translations of the Bible are very flawed. You talk about the Septuagint (LXX) and act like it's this thing of the past that is wholly ignored. However, all modern translations (ESV, NIV, NASB, etc) use the Septuagint as a guiding document. The Bible we have today did NOT get to us through some millennial game of telephone. I mean this in the most loving way possible: this is the reason there are classically trained theologians and scholars. I'm a doctoral student in theology and these are not new objections or understandings you have come across on hell (or anything else). This teaching has been refuted time and again for over 1900 years and if you had any training or education, you'd know that. Would you make these kinds of authoritative judgments on the laws of physics, Chemistry, Philosophy, French Literature, World History, or any other academic topic without any training? Of course not..you'd never make the statement that you're not an expert on the philosophy of Hume or Descartes the proceed to judge their writings. While we have the freedom to read the Bible for ourselves and in that we can see and accept varying applications, there is only ONE meaning/intent of the biblical authors. Just like with the writings of Hume or Descartes, you can read them and form your own opinions and judgments, but that may not agree with the author's intent or original meaning. So how would you understand what Hume and Descartes were trying to say in their writings? Learn from someone who has studied them and has a good understanding. The same holds true with theology...there are many scholars who have devoted their lives to the understanding of the Bible and its contents. We may not agree but there is a formula for understanding and studying the Bible that the two of you seem to blatantly ignore or toss aside because you do not agree with it. I may not agree with everything Luther has to say (and I don't) but that doesn't mean he's entirely wrong on everything. Understanding = Wisdom + Knowledge
Titus 1:16 They profess to know God, but they deny him by their works. They are detestable, disobedient, unfit for any good work. 1 John 2:4 Whoever says “I know him” but does not keep his commandments is a liar, and the truth is not in him, Matthew 7:21-23 “Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. On that day many will say to me, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and cast out demons in your name, and do many mighty works in your name?’ And then will I declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from me, you workers of lawlessness.’
You never bothered to say why your ruling out Hell. You are altering the message of the gospel. God tells us we are lost and is clear we don’t get to heaven. It’s like you totally IGNORES. the Bible THAT DOES TALK about how to get to Heaven. It has nothing to do with how big and small are sins are . “for all have sinned” you are sure leaving out a chunk of the NT!
I used to believe hell was eternal in school, it messed me up a tad. But now, I don’t believe hell is eternal anymore. I lean heavily to universal salvation. I accepted it into my theology and I haven’t looked back.
Same, dude. I've become a much better person since I embraced universalism. It's a shame that the mainstream church doesn't take us seriously, and most of us have to keep quiet about it if we want to keep serving in the church.
@@cabpeer5963 Eh, I wasn’t much of a church going person. I’m pretty open about my beliefs. Plus, I reconstructed my Christian beliefs to a Buddhist framework because I had an interested Christian mysticism and Mahayana Buddhism, so my beliefs were influenced by it. I had to let go of a lot toxic beliefs in Christianity, it was hard but worth it.
@@cabpeer5963 obviously, because your beliefs do not come from the bible. Just because you feel some way or say it made you a better person does not make it valid
@@weirdflex8158 I don’t take it literally. Eternal hell is nothing but a concept used to control the masses through fear. The Bible is not inerrant or infallible.
1:55 - "There's very few just straight up evil people in the world" - Romans 1-3 completely contradicts this. Romans 1 makes it very clear that people have become worshippers of idols and of self ("...they worshipped and served the creature rather than the Creator..." - Romans 1:25) There is a twisting of the Creator-creature relationship. As people do this more and more, God continually gives them over in judgment to sexual lust, to homosexual lust, and finally to a debased mind. ("Though they know God's righteous decree that those who practice such things deserve to die, they not only do them but give hearty approval to those who practice them." - Romans 1:32) "All have sinned and fall short of the glory of God." (Romans 3:23) The Bible makes it very clear that everyone is a sinner, and that the result of that is death (Romans 6:23). In Paul's speech on Mars Hill, he states it plainly: "The times of ignorance God overlooked, but now he commands all people everywhere to repent, because he has fixed a day on which he will judge the world in righteousness by a man whom he has appointed; and of this he has given assurance to all by raising him from the dead." - Acts 17:30-31. If all people need to repent, then all people are sinners (evil). So to say that there are few evil people in the world is a direct contradiction to Scripture. 5:40 - The explanation for hell is actually very simple. God created humans to show off His glory to. He has given us moral laws in line with His character that we are to obey. All of humanity are sinners, which means that they have disobeyed God's commands and broken His law. Just like when you get punished for stealing something from a store or lying to your parents, God must punish sin because it is an affront to Him. But God is not a sinful human like us to where He can just wink at sin or ignore it. God is holy, and thus His judgment and punishment for sin is perfect. God has decreed that those who sin will suffer His wrath (holy hatred) because of that sin. This is what hell is: God's wrath being poured out on a person because of their sin against Him. As all people are sinners, all people will one day suffer God's wrath. But this is where the Gospel comes in: God has a made a way of salvation, a way in which we can be spared the reality of hell and be reconciled to Him: by repenting of your sins and believing in Jesus's propitiation (His sacrifice on your behalf). Jesus took upon Himself the wrath of God when He was on the cross. In other words, He took the punishment that we deserve so that we would not have to endure it. Any person who repents of (turns away from) their sin and trusts in Christ's sacrifice on their behalf will be reconciled to God, and will spend eternity in Heaven with God. 7:30 - I actually somewhat agree with you here. A true Christian does not follow God out of a fear that if they don't they will go to hell. A true Christian follows God because they love Him and want to obey Him. If a person claims to follow God, but they do so because they are afraid of going to hell if they don't, then I would say that they have missed the point and are likely not a Christian. Christians do not fear hell. Christians love God. 8:55 - "I feel like true evangelism is to encourage people not to fear." This is not what evangelism is. We use the word evangelism to refer to sharing the Gospel with people, and the Gospel is not that you need to "show love" or "sense the divinity." Yes we are called to love our neighbors, but we are not saved because we do so. We are condemned, rightly, because we do not do so, and the Gospel is that God can reconcile us to Himself, forgive us for our sin, and then empower us to live righteously. Not that Christians never sin again, but that He helps us in our day-to-day walk. 9:10 - If someone in your life has not repented and placed their faith in Christ, then they are going to hell. Our responsibility is to share the Gospel with them, but whether or not they are saved is a matter between them and God. Also, encouraging this person to get out into nature and "sense the divine" is actually very bad advice. Paul makes it very clear in Romans 10: "If you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved. For with the heart one believes and is justified, and with the mouth one confesses and is saved. For the Scripture says, 'Everyone who believes in Him will not be put to shame.' For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek; for the same Lord is Lord of all, bestowing His riches on all who call on Him. For 'everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved.' How then will they call on Him in whom they have not believed? And how are they to believe in Him of whom they have never heard? And how are they to hear without someone preaching? And how are they to preach unless they are sent? As it is written, 'How beautiful are the feet of those who preach the good news!'" - Romans 10:9-15 10:20 - The good news makes no sense if it is not given in light of peoples' present condition. The fact that Jesus came to save us from the wrath of God due us because of our sins means nothing if we don't sin, or if there is no punishment for that sin. If that's the case, then why did Jesus come at all? If there's no punishment for sin, then what exactly did Jesus save us from? 10:40 - "The gospel is meant to bring people out of poverty, sickness, and despair, and to give them hope and bring them out of sin consciousness." This is false. This is not the gospel. I would absolutely challenge the woman you had on to provide evidence for this supposed "purpose" of the Gospel. The Gospel (good news) is that there is a way to be reconciled to God. You are deserving of punishment for your sins, but God has deigned to show us mercy because He loves us. 11:25 - "It [sin] means to perceive yourself as separate from God and others." This is honestly absurd. Sin is not a lens through which we perceive things. We don't merely perceive ourselves as separated from God. We are actually separated from God. The Bible makes it clear that we are dead in our sins and trespasses, and that we are enemies of God. This is not perception, this is reality. We do not need to simply "get rid of this sin consciousness that separates us from God and others and come back to the knowledge that we are one with other people and with God." This is not a Christian statement. This actually carries overtones of Hinduism, which believes that we are all part of the One, and then you and I and a rock and a tree, there is actually no distinction between us. We are all simply part of the One. NOTHING that was said from 11:25 - 13:30 has anything to do with Christianity, and I would absolutely challenge her to provide any evidence. In fact, everything she described in this section is Hindu. Given this extremely twisted view of sin and our relationship with God and each other, I honestly don't believe this woman is saved. She doesn't seem to understand what sin actually is, or what our relationship with God actually looks like, and her solution to our "problem" looks nothing like what the Gospel actually is. And Paul makes clear in Galatians 1 that if anyone else preaches a different gospel than what He has already preached, let him be anathema (damned to hell).
14:40 - "I have been defining sin as anything that causes harm." I'm sorry, but you do not get to define what sin is. God defines what sin is. Sin is rebellion against God, being disobedient. "If anyone knows the right thing to do and fails to do it, for him it is sin." - James 4:17. Now, Romans 14 does also talk about personal sin according to ones conscience. In other words, if you honestly believe something to be a sin, and you do that thing (for example, you might believe eating meat is sinful, so if you were to eat meat) then you have sinned. Now, the Bible doesn't actually say that, for example, eating meat is a sin. But if you honestly believe something to be sinful and have chosen to abstain from it, then you are to do so according to your conscience. However, Paul makes it very clear that you cannot judge others according to these "sins of conscience" because no one else is accountable to you, they are only accountable to God. So if God has not said that it is a sin, and you don't have any personal conviction of something being a sin for you, then it is not a sin. 15:05 - "Heaven isn't later, heaven starts now." Heaven is a place. It is where God currently is, and where Jesus currently is. It's not a time. Also, there's a misunderstanding of what heaven is going to be like. "If we were feeding the poor and healing the sick and solving world hunger, heaven could be now." There will be no sick people in heaven. No one in heaven will go hungry. No one in heaven will be in pain. No one in heaven will sin. No one in heaven will die. Those things (going hungry, being sick and in pain, sinning, dying), they're all still happening right now. We are not in heaven. And this is a common misconception, but heaven is NOT the good news. The good news is not that one day you will get to go to a place where everything will be perfect and you'll never be hungry or sick and never die. The good news is that there is a chance for you to be reconciled to the God who made you and loves you enough to send His Son to take your punishment so that you might be able to spend eternity with Him. Heaven is a side benefit, not the goal. And if you are a Christian because you want to go to heaven instead of hell, then guess what, you're not a Christian. God is the focus of the Gospel, not heaven. 17:00 - "Isn't God worse than Hitler since Hitler killed 6 million Jews but God is sending billions to hell?" No. Hitler murdered people. Murder, as defined by Scripture, is the unjustified killing of an innocent person. The Jews were not guilty of any crimes against Hitler for which he killed them. God, on the other hand, in sending people to hell, is absolutely justified in doing so because all of humanity has sinned against Him. There is no innocent person. Again: "All have sinned and fall short of the glory of God." - Romans 3:23. There is not a single person in hell who does not deserve to be there. And that should not shock you. What should shock you is that every single person who goes to heaven does not deserve to be there. They were saved by God's grace (His unmerited favor). They deserve to be in hell too. 17:20 - If you break God's law, then you deserve to go to hell. God has laid out His law for how we are to behave sexually. Having sex outside of marriage, having homosexual sex, rape, incest, having sex with children, having sex with animals, all of these fall outside of the boundaries that God has set up. If you break any one of them, then you have broken God's law (sinned) and are deserving to go to hell. Now, here is where I think that the church often goes to far. Just because you have broken God's law doesn't mean that you can never be saved. Just because you had sex before you were married doesn't mean that it's impossible for you to go to heaven. Just because a man had sex with a man doesn't mean it's impossible for them to go to heaven. It's not the case that some sins are so egregious that you cannot be saved if you commit them. It is absolutely possible to be saved. What must you do? Repent (turn away from your sin) and believe the Gospel. Paul makes it clear in 1 Corinthians 6:11, after giving a vice list of sins that prevent you from getting to heaven, that "...such were some of you. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God." 20:20 - Hitler was human. We are human. Thus we are capable of committing the same sins as Hitler. However, again, this language of the "sin consciousness" that she keeps using, I would challenge her to show me where she got that in Scripture. Also, unless he repented and placed his faith in Christ, Hitler is in hell. The Bible makes this very clear. 21:00 - This is one of the biggest problems with this kind of theology. It is not based in Scripture. It is based on personal feelings. "Wouldn't you rather see Hitler become a nice person?" That is completely irrelevant. Our personal feelings do not dictate truth. God is not like us. He is not human. So just because you and I would do things a certain way, or would not do certain things, doesn't mean that God is the same. You are trying to make God into a human that shares what you feel is right and wrong, and you do not get to do that. You are creating a god in your own image, and that is idolatry. 22:00 - I would actually agree that our justice system needs some reform. I personally, as a Christian, want to see it look more likes what God considers to be justice. For example, when someone steals something, instead of putting them in jail where society now has to pay for their food and such, just make them pay back what they stole with interest. I know that there is some debate on this, but I firmly believe that if a person rapes or murders another person, then the murderer/rapist should be given the death penalty. Now, as is the case in the Old Testament, I think that our standard of conviction should be stricter because we absolutely don't want to kill someone who is innocent. But if we could absolutely prove that someone raped/murdered someone, then I 100% think that they should be put to death for it. I believe as Romans 13 says, that the government is God's instrument to reward those who do good and punish those who do evil. Even if the parties are reconciled to one another, that does not eliminate the need for justice. If I disobey my mom as a child, and then later go and reconcile to her, I'm still going to be punished for what I did. Reconciliation does not happen in place of punishment. 35:00 - "There is nowhere in the Bible where it claims to be infallible or authoritative." Uh, when God speaks, it's authoritative and infallible. End of discussion. But just for good measure: "All Scripture is breathed out by God and is profitable for teaching, correction, rebuke, and training in righteousness, that the man of God be complete, equipped for every good work." - 2 Timothy 3:16-17 "Sanctify them in the truth, Your Word is truth." - John 17:17 (God's word is not true, meaning that it measures up to some standard of truth. God's word is truth, meaning that it is the standard by which everything else is measured. The truth, by definition, cannot be in error. In other words, the truth is infallible -> God's Word is infallible.) "And when Jesus finished these sayings, the crowds were astonished at his teaching, for he was teaching them as one who had authority, and not as their scribes." - Matthew 7:28-29 (end of the Sermon on the Mount) "Then Pharisees and scribes came to Jesus from Jerusalem and said, 'Why do your disciples break the tradition of the elders? For they do not wash their hands when they eat.' He answered them, 'And why do you break the commandment of God for the sake of your tradition? For God commanded, "Honor your father and your mother" and "Whoever reviles father or mother must surely die." But you say, "If anyone tells his father or his mother, 'What you would have gained from me is given to God,' he need not honor his father." So for the sake of your tradition you have made void the word of God. You hypocrites! Well did Isaiah prophesy of you when he said: "This people honors me with their lips, but their heart is far from me; in vain do they worship me, teaching as doctrines the commandments of men."'" - Matthew 15:1-9 There were a number of other things I noticed in this video, but I think these points that I've made get my point across.
The original Hebrew interpretation literally never says the word hell. It was added in because people were coming to church less and less and needed a way to get people there so they could take their money. They even charged for “tickets to heaven”.
The New Testament was Greek. Not Hebrew. Hel is the Norse underworld and thus a fitting translation of Hades, the Greek translation for Sheol. Hel is thus the realm of dead which Jesus also travelled to according to the creed. There are other words that also get translated as hell and that's confusing because the Greek text might speak of Gehenna or the abyss or Tartaros. And they are either places of judgement or the abode of demons. An entirely different thing is purgatory and that's not literally in the Bible and has a closer connection to indulgences (as you called them tickets to heaven).
@@kadda1212 there’s a lot honestly. So many interpretations, languages, add ins and take outs. If we were to lay it all out, we’d have an entire essay haha my point mainly is just that it’s a great historical story but that’s all it is, a story.
This video helped me a lot. Growing up all my life in an evangelical Christian church, I have always felt uneasy in my heart about the idea of hell as we know it. I would grapple often with the common question of "If God is so loving, (if he has such unconditional unfathomable love for everyone,) why would he damn anyone to that type of eternal suffering." The idea of going to hell for such small things, like impure thoughts or lying, unless you repented and meant it was ridiculous to me, but I had been SO indoctrinated my whole life and taught not to trust my own mind because of pastors saying that Satan can manipulate your thoughts and use you without you knowing it and other messages that teach you to doubt your own intuition. It was one of the biggest reasons I began my deconstruction, and I just really appreciate this channel for helping me through it all. This is such an important conversation, and I truly hope more people will be realizing things mentioned in this video rather than suffering their whole lives living with anxiety and terrified of their eternal fate. Faith shouldn't be fear-based, and the Church has scared us into believing in harmful ideologies for too long.
@@matildesalvalaio8667 While many deconstructed people have lost their faith in doing so, I dont think you have to do that necessarily. For what it's worth from complete layman, I would say look at the parts of christianity that concern you, then try and dig into sources of that history from a non apologetic source. And then continue onto each section. It might take years, but at least you can say you are being honest.
Neo-evangelicalism and Progressive modernism are both wrong. Please follow God's word. Stay away from Brenda. 2 Corinthians Chapter 11 13 For such [are] false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into the apostles of Christ. 14 And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light. 15 Therefore [it is] no great thing if his ministers also be transformed as the ministers of righteousness; whose end shall be according to their works.
I think that hell exists, but not popculture hell. There is so much talk about judgement and some certainly deserve it - but I am not the one to judge. And not everyone will be saved although God longs for everyone to be saved. I think that seems also clear from the Bible. Anyways what do I think what hell is or should I say the second death? As believers we are to become a new creation, to become the image of Christ, that is to become truly human. People who remain in sin (which I define as anything going against love) will remain an old creation, will not put on Christ, not be his image and eventually cease to be human and become something else, something dark and evil and perverted (kind of like the Picture of Dorian Gray I imagine). I don't think that in that form of existence one can be close to God without suffering. And maybe it is an act of mercy to die forever once you are in that state. And I assume one dies if they don't eat from the tree of life. There are simply people who decide to do that which is evil. Can they receive forgiveness? If they repent, absolutely. But some do not. And God can't force it.
i do resonate with this more as it is more based on the love you have, not about believing the right things. Because the former seems consistent with a loving deity but the latter ....i cant wrap my head around someone being punished after death simply because they were a skeptic...or after trying in earnest didn't find enough evidence to believe in something. that just seems stupid to me.
@@LipSyncLover As of right now I wonder if one can follow Christ by their actions despite lacking faith. I know that so many who profess Jesus with their mouth don't do it with their heart. Maybe both is necessary, I don't know. Maybe they still receive a chance of responding once they see God - I don't know. Some things are difficult because God waits so long with his judgement day. So many people die without having believed... I just assume God is just and wise and he will only judge those who deserve it and who am I to say who that is. I think though it's also dangerous to say that he couldn't speak judgement because that would make him evil. He's not to be judged by human standards. The creator of everything has every right to tear it all down and turn it into chaos again. He promised not to, but he could. I just say clay and potter. Who are we to judge God's actions?
@@kadda1212 well, just in my opinion. i think you can follow christ in action without faith? I just think faith can really help and both is better than one (which i think is pretty biblical too). One of the things I observe...and this is a generalization....is that atheists may have a harder time with softening their heart. So much things happen in life that are awful, traumatic, grotesque....the natural impulse is to toughen up but sometimes it can toughen our hearts. I think if I were an atheist and didn't routinely pray my bitterness away....I would be far less soft, which surely, can lead to sins. And welp, Idk. on one hand I can understand why you say God isn't to be judged by human standards....but on the other hand, i SHOULD HOPE...that if God decreed it was good to kill everyone born in the month of August.....that people might pause and say "hey thats pretty evil". I think we can draw some lines. And I also can't really make sense of a God that to an extent endows me with a conscience, and all of us with some universals in terms of right and wrong (i'm not saying its ALL universal but some things are)....and yet, I can't tell when something is evil? I dont know....none of us have a full grasp of God but I trust myself enough to be able to tell when a human portrait of God depicts God as evil and I don't think any good God, knowing my limitations in knowledge, would punish me for discarding such a portrait. And you're right God could tear it all down if God wanted...but if God sadistically made everyone suffer? Well....i haven't any clue why such a God is one I'd want to worship? luckily. I dont think that's how God is
Personally I believe that those who believe in God are granted eternal life to spend with him, and those who don't believe in God just don't get eternal life. So I guess I don't believe in hell but I also don't believe in universal salvation, because the Bible does stress the importance of being saved and following God with all your heart. We don't have to choose between everyone goes to heaven or some people get eternally punished though, there is quite a bit of biblical evidence that those who don't believe just... don't live eternally.
Rob Bell’s book, Love Wins, was the first time I considered much of what you discuss here. I then sought other theologians and studied for myself only to find it’s no where near as clear cut as the western evangelicals I trusted insist. I am not of universalist thought yet, but I am convinced we will be surprised by grace and not disappointed.
Rob Bell is a disgrace, I would NOT want to be in his shoes on judgment day, that's for dang sure. He even denies Christ died for our sins, he's literally the worst. If you don't think hell is real, please watch '23 minutes in hell'. It's here on UA-cam. He was shown round hell and Jesus explained to him exactly what it is and why it was created.
It really took me a while to deconstruct my fear of hell. It felt like the only reason why I was Christian was that if I wasn't I was going to hell. It was fear-based. Now I have faith, and I know God is in control no matter where he takes me.
Wow... I'm in your same situation... Don't know where to begin. I don't want to live in fear of exsisting...
Aaaww, glad to see that
Please how did you overcome the fear? I literally lose sleep because of it
@@kate-vi9xh I'm so sorry to hear that. I fell away from God and didn't even believe in him for a while because of this . We have been raised to believe that God can love us and at the same time would torture us for eternity! I call bullshit on that! I questioned why God let people be born in the 1st place . Seems pretty sick. By listening to other thoughts on the subject I have realized that h*** is a place made up to make people continue serving the "Roman Empire." Nowadays it keeps butts in the seats I guess. But I lost most of my fear years ago and I continue to lose the other 2% the more I learn about it And the closer I get to the true Concept of God. If you read the scriptures it's really not what is talking about.
This is where I am at right now. A lot of things that I feel like are helping me, and that really have been(emotionally, physically, etc) are things that I am scared are going to send me to hell
I’m so glad you guys are covering this.
my Hell trauma:
When I was younger, couldn’t have been any older than 4th grade, I spent the night at a family friend’s house who, despite us all being Christian, were way more religious than my family. The mom sat us all down for their nightly bible study and explained to us how when the rapture comes, the good will ascend and rest will be left to complete chaos (hell). Eternal fires would erupt, the oceans would be of blood, people would be screaming and in horrifying pain...but never die. A permanent place of absolute horror and burning.
I can’t even begin to tell you all how absolute traumatized I was. It has lingered in my mind since that year. Even till this day, a lot of my fear of God comes from the fear of Hell. It has WEAKENED my faith for many years; only this year have I began to restructure/rediscover my faith.
That woman was crazy.
The problem is not that she really believed what she said, but that she said that to KIDS. She had no right to traumatize you.
I was told about 666 and mark of the beast at public school when I was in third grade. I was so scared and went home and told my stepdad. Thank goodness he had a little bit of faith and told me the real story about Jesus and how he for gave our sins. Jesus, a relationship with him through faith is what saves us from hell. Hell is a real place. It’s important that we tell the truth about what’s in the Bible. And it is traumatizing. That is why Jesus is so amazing! Grab on to him today read the word of God and ask him to save you and turn away from your sin and to him
For me it was end times teaching- it was the cool thing to have church youth retreats and show a video of people refusing the mark of the beast and getting their heads chopped off. Particularly since like many kids, we were incredibly sheltered. I wasn´t even allowed to watch PG13 movies or anything violent, but somehow I was allowed to watch really graphic end times movies. But I think the most damaging was the instruction to ´look forward to it´. Like... after intense pain and suffering, plagues, wars, famine, people going to hell forever to burn but also the instruction to ¨Look forward to these signs because it´s a good thing because Jesus was coming¨ is just.... I don´t know there´s something kind of dark and twisted about purposefully using fear to try to convert people and then telling them they should be happy. I was also desperately afraid I would be ´left behind.´ I thought, ¨If God figures out I´m not looking forward to his coming because I´m scared, will he be mad at me for my lack of faith and not rapture me?¨ I used to literally sneak into my parents rooms in the middle of the night and make sure they hadn´t disappeared and I remember having a lot of nightmares about hell and death.
That’s not hell that’s Armageddon which I think last for 7 years then those who have still not repented will be condemned to hell (lake of fire) with Satan.
@@aprilo4447 I relate to your story so much. I still struggle with the concept in my faith. The idea of God returning scares me because so much of my faith has been built on fear and the belief that I have to be perfect. I struggle with the idea of people being eternally punished...it seems contradictory. And I even feel guilt questioning these things, unfortunately
IF THERE IS NO HELL,,, I ask you 1 question??? Then why did Jesus need to suffer on the cross?..... Yes, hell is real,,, but I hate to say it.. So,be BOLD IN PROCLAIMING CHRIST...Telling people about hell is Loving...
WHOA, God literally wants us to not be plagued with all this terrified guilt
@@JonJGuev91 nah
@@JonJGuev91 nah
@@JonJGuev91 nah
@@JonJGuev91 Yet those who are in Christ have no more condemnation.
@@alexas.3306 yeah, that nah will surely get you into heaven. God will say “yes Alexa, you denied my scripture but sure! Come into my kingdom!”
Nah
I always struggled with the existence of hell. When I was 13, I remember asking my church leaders how heaven can be perfect if my parents and friends won't be there. I could never understand how heaven would be perfect and how I would feel great there, knowing that many people who I loved would be "burning forever".
I've been thinking a lot the past week about hell, so this video came at a perfect time. I was thinking about how I don't wish suffering upon people who have really really wronged me. Like people who have done extremely terrible things to me. I would never want them to suffer forever. So, if I have this empathy and love for them, than how much greater must God's love and empathy be towards them? God, the creator and embodiment of love... I just don't know if I believe anymore that He would turn His back on them forever.
@@jen8441 God loves us more than animals, and plants -- He sent His Son Jesus to die for us, not animals or plants.
I don't think we get punished for learning; Punishment comes as a natural consequence of sin. God want to rescue us from this, He wants to save us from that and save us from Hell.
God doesn't want anyone to perish - 2 Peter 3:9
Anyone who wants to be rescued, can be; It's their choice -- John 3:16 / Romans 10:9-13
Thank you so much. I feel the exact same way
@47 IQ aww, look you trying at being edgy. Adorable.
The concept I personally struggled with was how a God who supposedly loved every one of us would condemn us to Hell forever if we made too many mistakes. I stopped believing in eternal damnation as a teenager even though I identified as Catholic.
@@jen8441 I don't know... I mean, maybe it's just me, but when I was a child and disobeyed my parents, they would ground me for a short period of time, not shun me forever. I know, lucky me right?
This is blasphemous. Don't pick and choose from what the Word teaches, Jesus taught about eternal suffering, eternal life. The significance of sin against our Creator is tremendous. He is just and Jesus died on the cross and took our punishment for those who have faith in him and repent.
@T K Ok my friend. I would say the same to you. en.thiscouldchangeyourlife.net/
Let me guess, it's all allegorical or metaphorical in your opinion?
@T K If Jesus was speaking in a metaphorical analogous way,
Mark 9:47-48
And if your eye causes you to sin, tear it out. It is better for you to enter the kingdom of God with one eye than with two eyes to be thrown into hell, ‘where their worm does not die and the fire is not quenched.’
What is the analogy here? What is the said metaphor implying? Genuinely curious.
@T K Okay, why won't you answer the question then? I'm not talking about the rest of the Bible, I explicitly meant that verse when Jesus speaks of eternal suffering.
To answer your question, 7 days. Day and night. Day and night. It's about as straight forward as it can be.
Genesis 1:14
Then God said, “Let lights appear in the sky to separate the day from the night. Let them be signs to mark the seasons, days, and years. 15 Let these lights in the sky shine down on the earth.” And that is what happened. 16 God made two great lights-the larger one to govern the day, and the smaller one to govern the night. He also made the stars. 17 God set these lights in the sky to light the earth, 18 to govern the day and night, and to separate the light from the darkness. And God saw that it was good.
It clearly speaks of day and night in those verses governed by light and darkness. 1 day = sunrise to sunset..
T K What would be the metaphor of ETERNAL SUFFERING? „Oh yeah, he was just kidding when he said that.“ You are so deluded and propagandized.
@T K stop picking and choosing what you want to hear hell is real
covering this topic I think is so important:
I honestly that I was insane for having anxiety attacks and depressive episodes thinking that I was about to die, but more so the death isn’t wasnt scared me, it was this idea of condemnation that petrified me, and I can definitely say has affected me mentally. Even now, I try to convince myself I am worth of salvation but more often than not I have grown to believe that I will suffer hellfire and damnation.
Let me give you 100% assurance.
2 Corinthians 13:5
“Examine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith; prove your own selves. Know ye not your own selves, how that Jesus Christ is in you, except ye be reprobates?”
Philippians 2:12
Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.
Romans 3:23 - For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;
John 3:16 - For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
1 John 1:9 - If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us [our] sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
John 14
6Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.
7If ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also: and from henceforth ye know him, and have seen him.
Romans 6
23For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.
1 John 1:9 - If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us [our] sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
1Corinthians 15:
1Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand;
2By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain.
3For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;
4And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:
Romans 10
9That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
10For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
11For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.
12For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him.
13For WHOSOEVER shall CALL upon the name of the Lord shall be SAVED.
Think about it. Let me know.
I tend to not draw any hard lines on hell, as it's out of my hands anyway. If God is merciful and just at the same time I know HE alone knows the hearts of all and judges according to what He alone knows. Pete Enns talks about the motivation of evangelism to be to bring people to Jesus because he's the best thing you can bring them too, not because of hell or heaven. I think that's a fair motivation for evangelism.
I do consider myself a Christian, but hell has been massively troubling to me as a doctrine. I remember the terror I felt as a kid when I attempted to read Revelation, a very complex book.
And the explanations never sat right with me.
Please do a video on couples living together before marriage xx
Yes please!!
And also I'd love to see a discussion about how the Bible influenced gender roles in marriage in Western Culture. (Or at least to what extent it did)
Sorry, I just realised it sounds like I just gave you an exam essay question 😆 but I'd honestly love to see it. This video itself is so eye-opening and really makes me question whether I live to please God and be a good example of Jesus's love OR if I live just to avoid eternal condemnation. Even questioning it now makes me feel a little bit fearful like "how can I dare deny that he'll exist? Am I suggesting that I know this 'mysterious' God's ways and daring to question why he would send the innocent to be punished forever". It's definitely something to think about in quarantine 🤔😅
yes!!
And dont worry Brenda a self proclaimed "Christian" will tell you that behavior is alright with God and make you feel better right ???
matthew 10:28 And do not fear those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. Rather fear him who can destroy both soul and body in hell.
i dont know why it didnt put the rest of what i wrote, but read matthew 7:13-23 john 3:16-18,
it would be lovely if all where saved but the bible does not teach that, hell is not eternal but it is real. jesus came to save those who would believe in him
@@mylucidadventures6540 Hell is eternal.
@@TF-tn4ft and destroy means?
@@mylucidadventures6540 wait are you advocating for annhilationism or purgatory?
@@gideonwiley8961 annilationism
Even as an atheist I find this an interesting conversation. The first thing that made me doubt religion was my morality didn't line up with the bible and I couldn't imagine all my friends and "unsaved" family members going to hell. Science brought me further out of religion. What I still question though is the strong sense of love I felt when I almost died drowning. It felt like unconditional love before passing out. It was not like the vengeful, angry, jealous god I was taught. If there is something it definitely didn't feel like something to fear.
That was the Holy Spirit. His presence feels like peace and love! Much love
This is God the way I know Him! Thank you for sharing this😊 I hope that one day we will all actknowledge that it is not about right/wrong, it is about unconditional love offering itself.
Wow that’s crazy I’m glad you’re okay but thank you for sharing that.❤️
You said that science brought you further out of religion but I think science and God can go hand in hand! I believe that the scientific discoveries of evolution and anatomy and all those other things that people say disprove the existence of God can actually bring us closer to God because it’s his way of showing us how he created the world and how it works! Just some food for thought!
Much of science is pure lies for the sole purpose of leading people away from god
The bible has the real answers to this question. Jesus speaks about Hell more than any other person in the bible.... it is very real. Heaven and hell are not what we decide they are.
May the Lord deliver us from the doctrine of devils He warned us about...people need to read the Word of God as it is
Unless we receive the gift of eternal life, we will *_perish:_*
■ "For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life." (John 3:16)
How will the unsaved perish?
■ "For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord" (Romans 6:23)
After resurrection and judgment, the unsaved will die a second time. It's called the "second death" in Revelation 2:11, 20:6, 20:14 and 21:8. After the second death there is no life and there is no hope of resurrection. It's the end of you. You'll never "be" again. That's what it means to "perish."
That's how God mercifully deals with those who reject Him.
The word “hell” appears in Bible *_translations_* because hell-believing *_translators_* put it there, paving over the meanings of three different original Greek words (New Testament). Those words have nothing to do with a place of eternal, fiery torment. Here’s an example:
■ “And if thine eye offend thee, pluck it out: it is better for thee to enter into the kingdom of God with one eye, than having two eyes to be cast into hell fire” (Mark 9:47)
"Hell" in that verse was how translators translated the Greek word γέεννα -geena or gehenna in English.
So, what was γέεννα, really? It was the valley (just outside Jerusalem) which was used as a dump in Jesus’ time. Constant fire and maggots there were sure to destroy whatever was thrown in. But translators said nothing about that dump. Instead, they translated γέεννα as “hell.”
Using “hell” in that verse was grossly misleading. Jesus was not talking about eternal torment in some sort of fiery hell. Jesus was saying the unsaved would perish. They would surely be destroyed, just as trash thrown into that dump was sure to be destroyed. They would be figuratively thrown into the dump.
Translators (especially King James Version, 1611) made a real mess when they used the word “hell” in place of those three Greek words. They had inherited their hell concept, by tradition, through the Catholic church. By using “hell” they were twisting the meanings of the Greek words, making the Bible appear to support to their own concept of a place of perpetual, fiery torment.
Over time some some translators have recognized this error, noting the original Greek words in footnotes, or even using the original Greek words directly in the translated text . . . and not using “hell.” Young’s Literal Translation (YLT), for example, never uses “hell.”
The damage caused by the translators continues to this day. Millions of reasonable people dismiss Christianity as nonsense when they are told the God of mercy will sadistically torment the unsaved forever and ever in some sort of fiery hell.
People struggle with the thought of perishing because they've been led to believe they have an immortal soul that leaves the body at death and lives - somewhere - forever. That's actually a pagan doctrine that has crept into institutional Christianity over the centuries. (It's a repackaged version of Satan's lie, "Ye shall not surely die" -Genesis 3:4.)
Here's the pagan Greek philosopher Plato; see if this sounds like what most professing Christians have been led to believe by their churches:
_"Do we believe that there is such a thing as death? And is this anything but the separation of soul and body? And being dead is the attainment of this separation; when the soul exists in herself, and is parted from the body and the body is parted from the soul . . . beyond question the soul is immortal and imperishable, and our souls will truly exist in another world!"_ (Plato, in _Phaedo,_ about 360 BC)
➔ Salvation is not about "where you'll spend eternity." Wrong paradigm! You won't even *_have_* an eternity unless you receive from God the gift of eternal life! Otherwise, you'll perish in that "second death."
And that, my friends, is how the God of mercy deals with those who reject Him.
In Matthew 25:46 Jesus describes the fate of the unsaved:
■ "And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal."
The "everlasting punishment" is the second death, after which there is no life and no hope of resurrection. The punishment of the unsaved is like the execution of a criminal: it is "everlasting" in the sense that it is completed, final, permanent and irrevocable. It is not "everlasting" in the sense of being ongoing, perpetual punishing.
God doesn't send people to hell. Their sin does. We're all born sinners, and the price for sin is death, but Jesus came to pay for our sins, he died instead of us, meaning we don't have to go to hell if we just believe in him. It's as simple as that.
If he died for my sins I don't have believe. Why does belief matter?
@@oliviamaynard9372 Romans 10
9That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
10For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
11For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.
12For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him.
If Jesus is claiming to be the son of God, (which is pretty significant) how can we simply be called to just have faith when outside of the Bible, there is no evidence to support his existence? Seems more like a plot from the church to convert people. If God gave his son for the whole world, we are already reconciled whether we believe in him or not! The price has been paid. I could not believe in air, doesn’t meant I’m not breathing it. It doesn’t discount its existence so it shouldn’t matter!
Just found this channel. I've been familiar with Julie for some time. Her book was the beginning of my freedom from fear and introduced me to a God of Love and Grace. I look forward to more of your podcasts. Thank you.
Read God's word and compare it with this channel
Thank you Carl! I appreciate your kind words and your friendship.
I have always thought of hell as simply the true separation from God. The burn lake of fire was a symbol for the pain of never knowing or finding that true self in Christ
Yah you may think that but that's not what the bible says
@@weirdflex8158 Bible also said my dad can marry me off as property but we are all pretty ok not taking that literally
@@illustrations.by.sheposco verse?
@@weirdflex8158 joseph originally was going to return Mary to her father when he found she was pregnant, and receive back what he had payed for her because she was now damaged goods. The old testament has loads but the easy one is in the ten commandments do not commit adultery. The actual language used originally has to with how you deal with damaged property and property exchange. The language used to describe how a woman should behave to her husband is the same language used for how a slave should interact with their husbands. There are whole sections describing what is a fair exchange for a wife.
@@illustrations.by.sheposco no he wanted to return mary because he though she cheated on him
I’ve come across this channel recently and am so happy I’ve found a Christian channel willing to talk about topics I have many questions about. But in relation to this conversation I think it’s raised more questions than answers for me.
Like saying if hell exists, God is worse than Hitler I think takes away from the just nature of God. I believe hell does exist but maybe not the way it’s been sold to us. It’s more about suffering eternal separation from God after death.
I cannot bring myself to believe that Hitler, a person who bought about such suffering for so many people, which is completely contrary to the nature of God and is the opposite of bringing about the kingdom of God will not be put to justice for the things he did.
I see our relationship with God as kind parental in the sense that just as rewarding the “good” things your child has done, you also must acknowledge when your child has done something “bad” act open this justly.
Evil actions have consequences and this doesn’t take away from God’s good nature in my opinion.
Please correct me if I’m wrong!! I’m honestly here to learn and gain more understanding not force my opinions.
@@christabelmateta I’m familiar with what it says in the bible, my response was more towards the lady speaking in this video. She bought up a lot of points that contradict what it says in the bible which is why I found her point of view confusing. But I agree with you, thanks for the suggestion x
This youtube channel over-focuses on God's absolute love, while forgetting His absolute justice and holiness and hatred (yes, hatred!) of sin. So you are spot-on: God WILL acknowledge your sin if you have not received Christ's gift of salvation.
Hell is real. If you want to know what it is like READ THE BIBLE. Jesus talks more about hell than He does about heaven.
It is obvious that the other two commenters didn't pay attention. The bible wasn't written in english and there is no hell in the original languages. Justice doesn't look like punishment it looks like a change of heart. The transformative and victorious power of cosmic love is that it moves all of us to a change of heart and a sense of reconnection to spirit and each other. We are restored to love and that includes the making of amends and the genuine sorrow and repentence for what was done. So imagine Hitler finally realizing what he did and apologizing to all six million of those people. Do you not think a cosmic humbling of that scale would be justice? What else do you want? And yes imagine the pain of even burning your hand. Now that throughout your whole body for all eternity. To inflict that on trillions of people would make god worse than hitler and if you want to inflict it on even just hiter it makes you worse than him too. So jot that down.
Wonderful episode! Although I do have a question that I'm surprised didn't get addressed in the video. One of the biggest arguments is against Universalism is, "What did Jesus die for if everyone gets to go to heaven?" I'm genuinely curious about the response to this. Does she answer this question in her book? The way that I've come to see this question is that Jesus died for EVERYONE, including sinners, non-believers, etc. I don't think his sacrifice came with a stipulation of, "Well, I'll die for you, but you have to believe in me." I think he died for every person ever. I'm just curious as to what you or Julie have to say on the topic.
I am currently working on my faith in Jesus, but the way I see it, if Jesus was God on Earth and Universalism is the truth (I believe in universalism), then Jesus' death, ressurection, our belief and acceptance of that, then Jesus' sacrifice could be seen as a shortcut of sorts. Those who believe and repent will go straight to heaven, and those who do not go to hell for however long they need to for punishment followed by restoration.
He came to abolish death.
I may be a athiest, but my answear to that would be Jesus took a punishment for you, so that after death, you didnt have a long, hellish trek to get to heaven. So I know time doesnt really exist after death but if a believer and a non believer died at the same time, the believer would immediately go to heaven, while the non believer took like 100 years to get there.
john 3 16“For God so loved the world,i that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. 17For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him. 18Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only Son of God.
I was raised Catholic and we believe in purgatory but I have no idea if it's actually true. Jesus did give a example(I dont know the verse) where he sent a man to prison to be purified because he had sinned even after he was forgiven by God. Maybe there is a place for those who died in sin but don't deserve hell, a place where they can be purified before they are accepted into heaven.
and then you have people like me that because of the damage done by religion can't return to it because of the fact that I have developed mental illness due to the damage done. I love watching you because I do agree with you but it is a lil too late for some of us that now think all who are Christian are a threat to our mental well being.
I was in this same position for years & years, but recently I’ve been feeling a conviction to come back to Christ (not evangelicalism). Something that hit me really hard was a actually a quote from the Jubilee episode Brenda was in: “God never hurt me, the Church hurt me.” I don’t think I could ever return to the Church, but the realization that God *isn’t* a religion, but pure love & compassion, really brought peace to my life.
my question that was not answered in this video is, what was the point of the crucifixion if not to save us from hell?
also what about so-called unforgivable sins? does this mean that this idea is also not actually biblical?
Jesus didn’t die to offer fire insurance. Jesus died Not for us but To us, to rescue us from SIN(our own self destruction and alienation from The GOD) Jesus didn’t die to appease the “Father’s wrath” on the contrary Jesus came to reveal the Father to show us that He’s never been angry and that his love is beyond our human understanding and that He longs for relationship with each and everyone and that is the gospel(good news) so according to the Father “sin” has been dealt with through His son what remains to this day is simply the lie that is promoted by organized “Christianity” mainly PROTESTANTISM . Now...hell is from pagan origin this concept about the netherworld where the gods send the evildoers to be punished. But it has been inserted in these extremely political and religious biased mainstream Bibles such as the King James. The apostle Paul stated that we all are going to go through the fire but is not HELL is the refining and purifying fire of our LOVING father so fire is good fire is medicinal. There’s nothing to be afraid of because Jesus is the perfect love himself and perfect love cast out all fears. As someone that has studied a little bit of theology I can assure you that GOD is beyond religion he’s beyond “Christianity” Protestantism and evangelicalism has caused so much damage to the name of Jesus what they promote as “gospel” is nothing but a weird mishmash of Gnosticism Judaism and Greco Roman philosophy. God is the light God is the love himself God is our creator our father that manifested in the flesh through his son Jesus.
@@fromhell1980 that was a very long and rambly paragraph that did not answer the question: why did jesus die? (also what about unforgivable sin?)
I'm very amenable to the idea that hell is fictional but these two points are still holding me back
@@ThePirateNerdJen these people are demons an that’s why they fear hell. They want to convince themselves that they can keep sinning with no consequences. After all, if there is no hell, why bother following scripture? Their sins have won them over.
@@adriana12995 not only is that false and unprovable. It's also lying about what peoples position actual are.
Thank you so much for this! I’ve been deconstructing for about 6 months now and I keep hearing about hell not being real but I never understood. This was so perfect to explain everything to me, thank you so much! Your channel has been such a source of freedom for me.
i feel like at this point one of the only things holding me to my faith is the fear of hell
@@matildesalvalaio8667 ask Him to come into your heart, talk to him like you would a friend and see if you feel differently. I also suggest reading The Unseen Realm by Michael Heiser (He's wonderful) and watch his talks on salvation ( he has a podcast called the Naked Bible Podcast or just youtube it) God wants us to be in his family.. He does love us, the whole Bible is basically a rescue mission for mankind, so of course God loves us if He is willing to save us. Praying for you both!
It exists but you don't have to be afraid.
I would focus on God, not Hell. Focus on Love of God and others. God is merciful and Just.
@@doobieddooo yes!! And being just apparently Hell is part of it. But it isn't the only part.
All you guys are telling this person is that just focus on the good parts of The Bible and forget about this abusive father we have over here that will torture you forever if you don't do one thing right. None of you know what you are talking about . Don't worry about h*** because no God Worthy of being served would torture you forever . It's just a tactic used by evangelicals to keep butts in the seats. I don't know if those who refuse to see the love of Christ will be Annihilated or eventually saved by I no they won't be tortured forever Or as she said God is even worse than Hitler
Your guest saw people as "throwaways" - perhaps some deeper exploration of how destructive that can be - especially for those who know they've been culturally condemned in this way. This broke my heart to hear. While I appreciate her honesty in sharing how she used to view some people, I think it should be stated that those words still cut, as someone who's seen this happen to people and experienced the judgement personally. If one feels they can condemn others, are they not acting as if they have the judgment of God themselves, and thus spreading evil?
It's interesting me when they appeal to scripture to refute the idea of eternal judgment in hell but they also spent time saying the bible has error...
I pray they would repent of their false gospel. Jesus died because of His love, yes but also because we are wretched sinners in need of a savior!
Scripture does not teach everlasting punishment, that's a choice of interpretation. The Bible makes no reference to heII. If you see it in your Bible, it's a mistranslation. The gospel is that God's king is here with all that implies - God will establish equity and a just society - so submit to him now. Yes, Jesus died because we are sinners. I'm still open to whether or not all will ultimately be saved, but if not, then Jesus failed.
Brenda, honest question.. if hell isn’t real then why did jesus have to die? I thought the point was to save people from hell?
Richard Rohr’s book the universal Christ has an interesting answer to this. A concept called “Restorative Justice” look it up if you’re interested. It can widen one’s perspective.
There would have been eternal hell if Jesus hadn't died. Simple. Jesus died for everyone and so if universalism is true then it means that jesus' death was 100 percent successful
Agree. Also, In the Apostles Creed it says Jesus descended into Hell. Christ conquered death for us. Jesus’s death and resurrection are incredibly important beliefs Christians hold.
If that's the cause, then millions of people got murdered by gods people and then got sent to hell forever. Why should I trust a god who's that bad at planning?
You must know about hell in order know what you are saved from. Brenda needs to repent.
Really really loved this video, thank you for taking the time and energy to talk about all of these issues. This kind of stuff has really helped me to realize that I don't have to give up my faith based on my life experiences.
The part about “lip service” and fear is so true. I feel like that fear was my childhood through early adult years. But now mid-30’s having that change of heart has really helped us stand for God and equal rights.
You should fear being away from God and his word .Matthew 24:35 Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away
The fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom
@@Mimi-nr6jx no it's not. It's the stopping block. If you cannot question, you cannot learn.
Jesus himself said hell is real
It was my understanding that hell wasnt a place, or rather a place you go when you die lol but rather a state of being or reference to sin. Based on my understanding from religious scholars, hell can be a state of being separate from god. I also was under the impression that through the translation process, hell also was just used interchangeably with “sin” and the concept of “speaking hell” (lying, being hurtful to others, obviously denouncing god) would result in punishment, often death, but eventually death, punishment, and hell were all mixed up and it became the punishment, as a tool for religious elites to manipulate and control the lower class and marginalized groups like women and slaves.
id love to hear the names of those religious scholars! i hear it faintly of scholars who arent fundamentals, but theyre not really named.
@@BR-nv8bw Robert P Jones, Barbara Brown Taylor , and Marcus Borg off the top of my head are pretty good.
Edit: if you meant the part about the historical context of how the idea of “hell”, “sin” and the adversary in Udeochridtisn tradition (fun fact there was no devil in any of the older Jewish or Christian texts, “the satan” was a character and he was a special and holy prosecutor of the heavenly kingdom and god, “the devil” was not relevant or present during the temptation of eve I. Genesis btw... and the idea of a devil, especially with spooky goat features comes from the influence of an old ass religion from Babylon once the two communities began to exchange information and customs)..
But yeah if you meant like scholars/theologians/theologists confirming this theory, i haven’t really seen any credible scholars AT ALL dispute this. It’s more a matter of finding the actual scholarly works and not sone rando preacher pretending his bible study equates to a PhD. Those are just more in line with Brenda’s tradition/take a more critical and extensive approach compared to others though. I can list more if you’re just looking for general radical/prog theos. Scholars aren’t always even religious themselves or they have a much deeper connection and willingness to learn and understand even if it’s not what they grew up with remains in their comfort zone. But like this is the current accepted historical context as far as the most original source material. The fundie style changes we see today were things gradually sprinkled in between both changing and exchanging culture as well as for the top dogs to monopolize bargaining power
Oh Lord please deliver your bride from this doctrine of devils
Reading the comment section is depressing
I remember I read a book when I was a child and there was a horrific drawing about hell. I remember I was afraid soooo much. I even had nightmares about burning alive in hell..... Kinda traumatic. I still have a fear from fire and burning, hot things. And of course I was always told that I will meet in heaven with the people I love. But my grandfather was not a christian, he never went to church. Is he in hell? Then how I will meet with him? And when I asked my parents they never said anything. Like be good and you will be in heaven. But I dont want eternity. We live, we die. I dont wanna live forever. And I'm pretty sure that I won't meet my friends, grandparents in heaven. So what's the point?
I'm not particularly concerned with any kind of afterlife because it's such a fundamentally unknowable thing, and it's often used to sidestep practical concerns. That said, when the topic comes up I think of myself as a hopeful universalist. I find myself most in-line with the thinking of Hans Urs von Balthasar, who highlighted that there are passages in the New Testament which suggest a version of Hell (most notably the Parable of the Sheep and the Goats in Matt. 25), and there are passages which seem to pretty directly state that all will be saved. He contended that, while it is a natural impulse to try to reconcile these by either interpreting the damnation passages in light of the reconciliation ones or vice-versa, we should instead let the tension remain; we cannot know.
However, he also argued that, since we are supposed to love all mankind, it is the duty of the Christian to hope that all shall be saved. More than that, he believed we have a reasonable basis for such a hope in the sheer depths to which Christ went to save humanity.
After speaking of hell, can you plsss talk about the afterlife :)
I.e. heaven
I think it's funny that you believe heaven exists and not hell. Y'all love to twist the scripture to conform to your feelings.
“The aim of our charge is love that issues from a pure heart and a good conscience and a sincere faith.”
1 Timothy 1:5 ESV
I really don’t see how we can reject the reality of hell. Christ warns against it more times than he talks of Heaven. The scriptures are clear.
Did you watch the whole talk?
YES!!! Guess the "lake of fire" in the last book of the Bible ( Revelation ) is not going to mentioned as well ! The word "hell" is not specifically mentioned thus people can brush it away yet also conveniently forget the story of Lazarus and the rich man in the Bible and the rich man dying and in a place of torment and pain etc etc etc !!!
This is one of my main objections with Christianity. Think about it. All of Hitler's victims would be burning not just in the ovens at Aushwitz, but in Hell forever. That's pretty messed up when you give it some thought.
@@anonymousnarwhal4323 look up annihilationism :)
How is it a "reality" when you cant prove it exists?
If this woman cannot define what the true Gospel is which is that Jesus died for our sins as the sacrificial substitute and was raised again on the 3rd day and that salvation is in Christ alone and not in works, then her Christianity is highly questionable. She defined the Gospel as something that brings people out of poverty/ sickness etc.. this is not the Gospel. That is the false prosperity Gospel. The good news is that Jesus Christ has finished the work on the cross so that you do not have to earn your salvation because salvation is given as a free gift which leads to a person humbling themselves in repentance for realizing how amazing this gift of salvation was that we have never deserved. This is the Christ-centered Gospel and the Gospel is not self-improvement. This sounds more like a New Age type of false Christianity.
my only question is, if hell isn’t real (which would be dope), then why did Jesus die? what was he protecting us from? why do we need to be washed clean of our sin if we can be sinful and still go to heaven
This channel does not endure sound doctrine
Well done and well thought out. Great guest commentary too. Two beautiful souls.
This was wonderful - I'm totally going to read her book. Thanks to you both!
To me "sin consciousness" is literally just humanism, understanding that we are all in this together and doing your best to bring well-being.
11:30 - Actually, the idea of defining sin as separation from God is alien to Judaism. Such a notion would be seen as a denial of God's omnipresence.
Of course, I'm an Atheist, so for me, it's just the mythology of my ancestors --- but still, this notion that Judaism defines sin in such a way (as well as other distortions that Christians often make of Judaism) needs to be addressed because such distortions are very tied to the power dynamic of uneven cultural exchange.
@Berry Blue --- I understand that that is her spiritual interpretation. My comment was not in response to her saying that _she_ sees sin in that manner -- but rather to her statement that historically Jews saw it that way ---- as should have been evidenced by the timestamp-code that I placed at the very start of the comment.
As a person who was raised christian in multiple denominations (southern baptist, catholic, pentacostal and non-denominational) and converted to Judaism this was such an interesting video.
Isaiah 53
Who hath believed our report? and to whom is the arm of the LORD revealed?
2For he shall grow up before him as a tender plant, and as a root out of a dry ground: he hath no form nor comeliness; and when we shall see him, there is no beauty that we should desire him.
3He is despised and rejected of men; a man of sorrows, and acquainted with grief: and we hid as it were our faces from him; he was despised, and we esteemed him not.
4Surely he hath borne our griefs, and carried our sorrows: yet we did esteem him stricken, smitten of God, and afflicted.
5But he was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace was upon him; and with his stripes we are healed.
6All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way; and the LORD hath laid on him the iniquity of us all.
7He was oppressed, and he was afflicted, yet he opened not his mouth: he is brought as a lamb to the slaughter, and as a sheep before her shearers is dumb, so he openeth not his mouth.
8He was taken from prison and from judgment: and who shall declare his generation? for he was cut off out of the land of the living: for the transgression of my people was he stricken.
9And he made his grave with the wicked, and with the rich in his death; because he had done no violence, neither was any deceit in his mouth.
10Yet it pleased the LORD to bruise him; he hath put him to grief: when thou shalt make his soul an offering for sin, he shall see his seed, he shall prolong his days, and the pleasure of the LORD shall prosper in his hand.
11He shall see of the travail of his soul, and shall be satisfied: by his knowledge shall my righteous servant justify many; for he shall bear their iniquities.
12Therefore will I divide him a portion with the great, and he shall divide the spoil with the strong; because he hath poured out his soul unto death: and he was numbered with the transgressors; and he bare the sin of many, and made intercession for the transgressors.
Please check out Melissa Dougherty's video talking to her 10 year old daughter about Hell. It would be something great to comment on.
reminded to young/christians: We cannot “come back to the knowledge that we are one with God.” When we become Christians God pours out his holy spirit into us and it dwells in us . God’s Holy Spirit is what makes us Heirs of God’s Kingdom or princesses and
princes of heaven.
We are not equal to God because he is the creator and we are the created. That fact should brings us to true humility so that as we learn to follow Christ we don’t get a “big” head. Jesus was a servant not a celebrity ready to make everyone see God as a genie God or a lovedy dovey God.
“An eye for an eye” isn’t in the Bible either: that’s the Code of Hammurabi.
what you say here about it is exactly correct though: the point of the Code of Hammurabi was to limit the punishments that could be meted out by judges and magistrates.
I do not believe the world is fundamentally just or that abusers are brought to justice by God. What I believe is that that injustice however is created by humans and that God wants us to overturn it. The world can be just, but it is not just yet.
Wait what about Deuteronomy 19:21?
It's in the Bible, but it's meaning is not that you have to take revenge for what has been done to you, but it limits your revenge. You can only take the same. But when Jesus says to turn the other cheek he basically shows that God's intension is to show it's better to not take revenge at all.
LEX TALIONIS. A law of retaliation by which the guilty party suffers the same harm as that experienced by the injured party. In biblical as in modern law the primary example of taliation is capital punishment for a judgment of murder (Gen 9:6, “Whoever sheds man’s blood, by man shall his blood be shed”; Exod 21:12, “Whoever strikes a man so that he dies, he shall surely be put to death”; Lev 24:21, “Whoever kills a man shall be put to death”), although some commentators would restrict the term “talion” to nonfatal bodily injuries. The classic formulation of taliation in biblical law is “life for life, eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot, burning for burning, wound for wound, stripe for stripe” (Exod 21:23-25). This text is popularly quoted as “an eye for an eye (and a tooth for a tooth),” following Matt 5:38, and is popularly regarded as a summation of biblical law.
What occasions the detailed statement in Exodus 21 is the difficulty of appropriate punishment in the complex case of injury to a pregnant woman who gets caught up in a fight among men and suffers a miscarriage and possible further consequences, even death. (Exod 21:22-25, however, has several indications of complex redaction and scholars differ widely in reconstruction and interpretation.) A similar talionic statement occurs with reference to causing permanent bodily injury to a neighbor-“as he has done so it will be done to him: injury for injury, eye for eye, tooth for tooth; as he has injured a man, so shall it be done to him” (Lev 24:19-20). The principle of taliation is also invoked with reference to compensation for the death of a stock animal-the negligent owner of a dangerous ox gives “ox for ox” (Exod 21:36), and someone who kills another’s animal gives restitution, “life for life” (Lev 24:18). In the case of false testimony, the penalty for the allegation is carried out on the perjuring party-“You shall do to him as he intended to do to his brother” (Deut 19:19). The added warning states, “You shall not show pity, but life for life, eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot” (Deut 19:21).
Biblical law does not know of the vicarious talion illustrated in the Laws of Hammurapi (## 116, 210, 230; cf. Middle Assyrian Laws ## A 50-52) in which someone responsible for the death of a citizen’s son or daughter has his son or daughter put to death. The biblical emphasis is on punishment of the guilty person-“everyone will be put to death for his own sin,” Deut 24:16; “so it will be done to him,” Lev 24:19-although vicarious punishment is known in extralegal situations. Also, unlike the Laws of Hammurapi (## 196-205), biblical law does not restrict the operation of talion to a specific class-talion among equals, but a fine if the injured person is of lower status.
H. B. Huffmon, “Lex Talionis,” ed. David Noel Freedman, The Anchor Yale Bible Dictionary (New York: Doubleday, 1992), 321.
God, people, what's wrong with you, do you call yourself Christians while rejecting parts of the Holy Scripture just to be profitable for you? Are you seriously saying that Christians but at the same time saying that hell is unreal? Hell is real and yet how. And if you are afraid of hell, then the problem is not in hell itself, but in you and in your beliefs. Therefore, stop spreading false teaching.
Scripture is fallible. Jesus didn’t hand humanity the Bible. The Bible was written and compiled long after Jesus was gone. Books were written for it and then left out. It’s been translated into multiple versions across multiple languages. There are contradictions and mistranslations in it because it was written down by fallible people. The Bible may be divinely inspired, but it’s not perfect. If God have humanity free will, then God gave humanity the ability to misinterpret his teachings and compile them into an imperfect text. Therefore, just because hell is mentioned in the Bible doesn’t necessarily mean it’s real. It could just be a human error.
People forget that Hitler created Hell for others, but he also created Hell for himself. Hitler lived in torment. Hell and Heaven are things we create for others and ourselves.
Hell was created for Satan and His demons
@@Janicesaheed according to who? Because even the Jewish people don’t believe in Hell and Jesus was Jewish
Hell is real. The purpose of Jesus dying on the cross was so He could save us from our sins and save us from going to hell when we die. God does not want to send us to hell! People send themselves to hell by rejecting God and rejecting salvation. Read the Word! God can and will help and accept you. Romans 5: 8-9: "But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us. Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him." The Bible says to just call on Jesus' name, confess that you are a sinner, know that Jesus died for YOUI and you shall be saved!
We don't know the actual truth. Just my opinion.
Also, question: how did Jesus have beautiful hair if there was no hair products or hair brushes around his time?
I love when she points out the concept of throwaways
Telling children that hell exists IS immoral
but not telling is immoral as well.
That's like not telling the child the stove is hot because you don't want to expose them to burns ...
It also hugely depends on what version of hell you are telling. Hell is a place where the souls go who have no connection to the divine love that keeps humanity and the heart of god beating. Hell is not the place however where you get sent whenever you don't do something your church or pastor tells you to be doing. The problem isn't hell but the context in which it is put.
@@BrutusAlbion My evidence that stoves are hot can beat up your evidence that any concept of Hell exists.
@@educator5899 sure my dude, if you want that petty win go ahead.
@@BrutusAlbion there's so much to unpack here..
I would like to point out that the bible firstly has very rough translations.
And telling kids and not telling kids can be both equalliy immoral.
@@BrutusAlbion Trump is the president because millions of people were, as children, on zero evidence, told that Hell is real. There is nothing petty about childhood religious indoctrination. If you have any good evidence for the existence of Hell, please share it.
Would love to see a talk on heaven!
But wasn't Dante's INFERNO written much more recently than the time of Augustine of Hippo (a.k.a. Saint Augustine)?
I mean, Augustine of Hippo died in 430 CE while Dante wasn't to be born until 1265 CE ---- so the notion that Augustine took _anything_ written by Dante and did _anything_ with it simply doesn't fit chronology.
Hell is what you put yourself through to burn off karma in each life. It can be a slow life process or an intense place of symbolic burning to burn karma at a heavy rate. There is no eternal place of pain and torment. Eternal torment makes absolutely no sense and is out of step with a loving,forgiving God.
The word hell in the bible means a fire that burns a corpse, and not a place where sinners are sent to burn for eternity after they die. Terms such as eternal damnation and hell fire are ideas that were made up by Churches.
2 Thess 1
8In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ: 9Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;
Rev 14
9And the third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, If any man worship the beast and his image, and receive his mark in his forehead, or in his hand, 10The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb: 11And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name.
@@wststokes7373 Nonsense
wow, the Martin Luther Hitler connection, you don't learn that in your confirmation classes now do you? :O and yet, Martin Luther can be credited with good things, for example wide spread literacy in Europe, but the fact that Luther held these beliefs explains a lot about modern Protestantism
i’ve been asking myself for the past 2 years why is there a hell ? yes i know we all have free will. to me it’s just confusing to why God who loves us ALL who is forgiving , would let his people who could change in “ hell” let people suffer
I think it's tough love for those deserving of it
Of course it’s real, it’s where I’m going! At least that’s what my own Aunty told me when I was 14 years old...and I didn’t even quite realize that I was gay yet, but I suppose she felt it was okay to tell her nephew that he would burn in hell for eternity because she thought he was gay. So yeah, hell must be real ‘cause she was just the first of DOZENS who’ve told me that throughout my 47 years of life.
Edit: I do want to mention that I still love my Aunty, and never stopped...I may have been sad and disappointed, but that doesn’t mean I stopped loving her.
I read this and I’m extremely sorry you were told this by so many people. As Christians no one is permitted to place such judgement you especially when you are that young and haven’t realised. Please know that does not reflect Jesus’s heart and love for you in the slightest. He loves you more than you can ever imagine, always has. He wants a relationship with you and to see you happy❤️
@@michaelahicks6212 Aw, Michaela, THIS is a Christian comment! ❤️ I was raised Buddhist, and we are taught many of the same tenets of Jesus Christ...and I’m sure that he’d be proud of your comment, and he’d be very sad to see the kinds of hate statements and actions that his other followers are making in his name. He taught love, acceptance, charity, kindness, etc. and befriended social outcasts...which is in stark contrast to many of his current followers. The reason I never qualify all Christians, or ever most Christians, as bad is because of people like you, Brenda, and a lot of my friends who spread Jesus Christ’s actual messages.
Anyway, I hope u and ur ohana are staying safe and healthy during this pandemic. Lotsa love and aloha from Honolulu! 😁❤️🤙🏽🌈☀️ (just symbols of Hawai’i)
I’m sorry for what your aunt said to you as a child. I was saved at 22 when I lived a very sinful life. People go to hell for not placing their faith in Jesus which causes repentance. When we repent (turn from sin) we don’t make a practice of sin anymore. At 22 during my salvation experience I didn’t want to live in sin anymore. Jesus became more important than myself. I just wanted to serve my Lord.
@@lightabounds77 Thanks. Honestly, I would bet money that I live a more “Christian” life than most. My belief has always been, and it’s one that both my parents engrained in us, to think about others before myself...and part of that is having empathy and seeing things from other people’s perspectives. Call me crazy, but I’d like to think that God would rather us spend our time and energy treating each other well, with kindness, compassion, and charity...rather than simply pledging allegiance to him. The former aligns much more with the teachings of Jesus, and the latter seems a bit egocentric and I like to think that God wouldn’t be that way. But what do I know? I’m just a Buddhist who enjoys learning about other religions. 😁 Being a perennial optimist, even though many Christians have told me abhorrent and disconcerting things over the years, I like to think that Christianity itself and the majority of Christians are good.
@@jen8441 Thank you, Jen. And for the record (and I’ll edit my original comment), I have ZERO animosity towards my aunt...I never did. I was just really sad ‘cause she had always been my favourite Aunty since she’s the closest to my age (I have a big family...each generation spans about 30 years). Some back story, her first husband left her and she was coming to church with us, not for the religious aspect, just for the family support...then she met her second husband who was a devout Christian, but also bad mouthed all of us because we weren’t Christian...which leads up to her statement. My folks raised me not to hold grudges, to forgive but not forget, and to not be jealous...admittedly, though very rare, the last one does happen from time to time. Hehe. #Humanity My folks also made a distinction between unconditional love and morality....if we ever did something wrong, they’d still love us, but they’d expect us to do the right thing and hold ourselves accountable, even if that meant incarceration. Morality was a very big deal to them, and I like to think that it is for most Christian families. Anyway, lotsa love and aloha from Honolulu.
God doesnt change his mind on hell regardless of how you reason out of this
I can only tell u what I believe, Ok here we go. I believed for two years that I was living in Hell, because of what was happening to me. I was abused almost daily during that time. Being so young at the time I felt alone and nothing was changing that made me feel like I would ever be safe again, and there was no one to guide me. One day my abuser just left and I tried to just let it go. As u know it did not work and something would happen to trigger that pain again and again. Sorry I did not mean to unload my problems on all of U.
Hi honey, I hope you are doing better now. I hope you have some support in your immediate environment you can go to when things get tough. We love and want the best for you! Ill have you in my thoughts
@@greymilk Thank u very much, That was a long time ago, but sometimes I will be fine and then someone will just say something and trigger those emotions again. I have been helping others who have gone through the same type of things when I can and that helps a lot. Thank u again and be safe.
I’m so sorry
I have been there, but it was for a few years longer. I definitely sympathize and I hope that you are doing OK now.
@@annasthoughtsandmusicalpar2239 Yes I am Ok. What about u? I hope u are Doing Ok now. For me it took a long time to get back to a stable life and I made many mistakes getting there. I was 9 when my abuse started, and my youth caused much of my teen yrs to be hard. Thank u again and I hope u are Ok now. If u would like to talk Please let me know and I will give u my private e-mail or Instagram?
Pleeeaaase talk about veganism! I’m agnostic in a Christian family and everyone says it’s ok to kill them but not torture them. It just doesn’t make sense to me since pain is equally as unwanted as death for an animal. So why should we care only about an animals interest in not suffering but not their interest in living? No one can answer me this. Also, what about the golden rule? Do unto others as you would have done unto you. Do animals not count as others? We don’t want to be killed for a 5 minute meal, neither do animals. The reasons and excuses I have encountered by Christians all rely on denying the subjective experience of the animals. They reject my language when I refer to them as “who,” “someone,” or include them as “others/individuals.” They say I’m “humanizing” or “personifying” them. I find it ridiculous to say being an individual or someone is exclusive to humans, even if you believe we have a soul. In what sense does having a soul make our tastebuds more worthy than the lives of those without a soul? At the same time, they call animals “it.” It’s clear to me that they see animals as machines/objects in order to discount the idea that we should even consider placing their lives at a higher value than our taste buds and convenience.
The Bible teaches that we can eat animals. Remember the Bible is about morality, so the message is that eating animals is not inherently immoral, that it’s natural. It’s the cycle of life playing out. This does not excuse animal abuse, obviously. But taking what you need from the natural world in a sustainable way is not “wrong” in and of itself. Btw modern science shows that plants cry out when cut and eaten, meaning they feel pain. So if you take veganism to it’s logical conclusion, you’ll be left with nothing to eat. Many people need meat biologically, it has to do with how their lineage evolved. Being vegan can be a beautiful personal choice, especially in the current meat industry, but eating meat is not a sin.
I don't believe in hell as it is in the bible, the descriptive words like a fire burning eternity are just to exaggerate to people how painful it is down there. I believe a hell is just a dark place for evil people. like soul therapy but they don't stay there forever. but that's just my theology. I choose to believe that God is just loving and he wouldn't send the people he loves to burn in hell for eternity.
But that isn’t in the Bible tho...
The Bible talks about the Jewish afterlife called “Sheol” which was a generic afterlife for everyone. “Hell” is a medieval folktale meant to scare small children.
I think the problem is to think that salvation and judgement are locally. Salvation is putting on Christ amd some do not do that. Since being the image of Christ and doing what God loves is truly being human, those who sin and do evil and work against love, would become more and more corrupted and eventually lose their humanity. If that state continues in eternity - I think it's quite dangerous. Remember that Adam and Eve get chased out of Eden so that they would not eat from the tree of life im their sinful state. Eternal life is not meant for the sinner I think. Eternal torment hence neither. I think there will be second death for those who chose to not love God and it will be finite.
@@sophiejones7727 I didn't say it was in the bible, it was just my theology.
@@kadda1212 I don't get what your talking about
The thing is that energy never dies according to physics.
Hell is cruel and unusual punishment.
I am really glad that the Founding Fathers didn't found our Nation on the Bible or the Christian religion.
Man, the mental liberty she talks about regarding our children.... Being a parent has SO many stressors, and the relief I've felt in realizing that the fear of hell is not needed is priceless.
You are sorely mistaken. You need to meditate on what free will means and more importantly what it implies. God made us truly free beings, capable of even going against him and rejecting him. He will not violate our free will, he will not force us to be with him if we don’t want. If we are not willing to let go of our sins, we won’t be able to be with him. It’s terrifying how much freedom we have, but only by having such freedom that we are able to reject God can we truly love him as he loves us, and only that way can we have true reciprocal love. This channel is satanic. Not even trying to be mean, it really is, the morals preached on this channel align more with the church of satan than any Christian tradition. No amount of spin or self justification can make any of it okay in God’s eyes. God has very clearly laid it out for us, how we should act and what we should be against, he is not a god of confusion. I think you all know deep down that you are just kidding yourselves anyways. The good thing is, we only need faith to be saved, but what is faith? It’s having faith in and adhering to the word of God and his teachings that have been revealed to us. It’s having enough faith that you can admit your views and feelings and the worlds views are wrong even though you feel it’s right. Stop deluding yourself, you and the girl that runs this channel aren’t Christian and have made a god out of yourselves and your own erroneous sense of morality. Idk if you’ll keep what I’ve said in mind at all but worth a try, this is a road to destruction.
@@JA-jx1hk Gee, thanks so much for your pedantic and condescending reply. I would have said very similar things the first 30 years of my life. I'm thankful I am freer now than I ever was then. True freedom comes from no condemnation and no fear. I hope someday you can experience it too.
I'm not Christian and never really have been, but I was exposed to Christian ideas growing up. From that perspective, I think the most healing thing for people with fear or trauma relating to hell is to understand that it does not exist. It's an invention of human culture, full stop. There is nothing to fear from that.
As someone who has always been inspired by the story of Lucifer, though, I sometimes like to think about how if hell does exist, I know the guy in charge, and he is good and kind. If heaven and hell were real in any sense at all, we'd have a myriad of philosophical and ethical problems, but still, it's nice to feel like, even if it were true on some level, Lucifer would protect me. He would try to ensure that I suffer as little as possible. Heaven is exclusive, but hell is inclusive. There's nothing in particular you need to do to get in (other than not get into heaven, I suppose). And Lucifer would be there to give a warm welcome to all of society's misfits and rejects, to heal them of the cruelty they experienced on earth.
The common concept of hell is immoral in every aspect. Its indefensible, especially from a all knowing god. Even dantes inferno is a slightly better version since it distinguishes separate punishments for each "sin". To treat every sin as the same and its everlasting torture, means god is not only all knowing, hes not just either.
@47 IQ Yeah, that still doesnt make it moral. And also, you can't even prove it anyway.
@47 IQ that didnt answer what I said. And god himself doesnt even stick to his own laws about right and wrong anyway. So it's a bad argument.
@47 IQ no? Have you forgotten how god commanded that thou shall not kill and then a just a few pages later he command moses and his army kill every man, women, child, and animal?
I mean, your account is only a week old so you're probably just trolling. But whatever, more comments help brenda. So I don't mind. But if your looking to try and somehow get into a insult match to validate your life, you're not going to find it here.
So please, make a moral argument for eternal torture for a finite crime.
@47 IQ I noticed you ignored my response again. That only helps shows your true motives, you know that right?
Try not to cut yourself on that edge there boy.
@47 IQ except the problem of evil is not what I was bringing up. Please try to actually stay on the correct topic if youre going to pretend to outsmart anyone.
Dante's inferno was written much after st. Augustine died... Maybe you mean that the canonized version of hell was rather based inf Zoroastrianism rather the the original Greek and Hebrew?
"The fear of the Lord ia the beginning of wisdom"
Nope. It's literally the opposite of it and the biggest hindrance to wisdom.
@@Aging_Casually_Late_Gamer no you are wrong the bible says this
@@Aging_Casually_Late_Gamer do not ever think your opinion is more valid than scripture
@@weirdflex8158 . Except we actually know that living in fear hinders knowedlge. It keeps one in thier comfort zone, unwilling to accept new information, and keeps love from being genuine.
"fear" here is old time speak for "respect", this is like Shakespearean English
I would have done the same thing as Hitler did 😑... really???? I did a bit of research? 😥😥😥 I cant....
I definitely don't believe in hell anymore, but after being raised evangelical I still have occasional flashes of fear about hell. It's such a harmful belief to be taught.
What’s harmful is telling people there is no hell when the Bible is so clear on the fact that there is a hell. Idk how people can just ignore that which is a big part of the Bible. That’s the work of the devil deceiving people into thinking there will be no consequences for disobeying God’s word
Marina the Bible doesn't give a clear idea of hell at all, and reading the Bible is one of the reasons I don't believe it is real.
This video by God is Grey goes much more in-depth in what the Bible talks about (Sheol and Gehenna for example). There is so much good information out there.
Also, this place is supposed to be a safe space for those who have endured spiritual trauma (which many have experienced from teachings of hell). So please be mindful of that.
There is no proof of hell. It makes no sense, and the idea of hell today came about through many different sources and people (many outside of the Bible as well). It is truly a fear tactic by religions.
@@SapphirePanorama You can choose to believe there isn’t a hell, but the devil is deceiving you. For there is a hell a “lake of fire.” And it’s eternal for those who follow flesh instead of the word of God. Here are several passages from the Bible about hell, which is the “lake of fire.” And you can choose to ignore it, but it won’t make it any less true. Hell is a not a place you want to go, it’s terrifying, but denying its existence just shows that you don’t believe the words of Bible or the words of God, therefore calling him a liar.
Jesus describes it as a place “…where the worms that eat them do not die and the fire is not quenched” (Mark 9:48).
“But as for the cowardly, the faithless, the detestable, as for murderers, the sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars, their portion will be in the lake that burns with fire and sulfur, which is the second death.” Revelations 21:8
“And do not fear those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. Rather fear him who can destroy both soul and body in hell.” Matthew 10:28
“And these will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.” Matthew 25:46
“And the devil who had deceived them was thrown into the lake of fire and sulfur where the beast and the false prophet were, and they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.” Revelation 20:10
“And if anyone's name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire.” Revelation 20:15
“But I say to you that everyone who is angry with his brother will be liable to judgment; whoever insults his brother will be liable to the council; and whoever says, ‘You fool!’ will be liable to the hell of fire.” Matthew 5:22
“For if we go on sinning deliberately after receiving the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins, but a fearful expectation of judgment, and a fury of fire that will consume the adversaries. Anyone who has set aside the law of Moses dies without mercy on the evidence of two or three witnesses. How much worse punishment, do you think, will be deserved by the one who has spurned the Son of God, and has profaned the blood of the covenant by which he was sanctified, and has outraged the Spirit of grace? For we know him who said, “Vengeance is mine; I will repay.” And again, “The Lord will judge his people.” ...” Hebrews 10:26-31
Marina I truly don't understand why you've come to this space. It's okay to have genuine questions and to grapple with Bible verses, the concept of hell, and what people have said about this throughout history. But throwing Bible verses at someone isn't convincing at all. You're reminding me completely of the toxic Christianity I grew up with. That further pushes me from wanting to do anything with a religion like that. It's harmful and deeply manipulative, full of contradictions and toxic ideas.
This conversation doesn't seem capable of going anywhere, so I wish you the best.
@@SapphirePanorama I didn’t come to tell people they’re going to hell because I deserve hell just like everyone else for not following God’s commandments. I came to tell the truth which apparently is too much for people these days, you said you read the Bible and now you know there’s no hell, and I gave you the Bible verses to show you that there is.And now you’re just blowing me off because I gave you some verses that showed you that this channel is lying. God is a judge and he’s loving but he’s also a judge, and you can’t expect a judge to not give punishment to people who don’t follow him. God sent his son Jesus to die on the cross for our sins so we could have eternal life with him and so that he could save us from hell if we repented and trusted in Him. I think you misunderstood what I was trying to show you, because I was telling you this out of love for your eternal life, not from hatred. You should go and have this discussion with a priest because he is much more knowledgeable than I am, I wish you the best of luck but I wasn’t gonna lie to you.
Thank you for this!!!
Vegetarianism/veganism and christianty please 🤞
Lots of negativity around this
Veganism is is not Christian. It’s not healthy. God tells us to eat animals.
I cannot even believe you literally just said there is no evidence of hell, sister you need to study and listen to the Words of Jesus Himself..
I didn’t watch the entire video, just skimmed through cause it was too upsetting. Did she actually say that there’s no evidence of hell? That’s insane. Do you know around what time stamp she says that?
She clearly explains the words of Jesus by stating what the Greek and Hebrew words were incorrectly translated into English as 'hell' actually referred to in the original language. She did study, she's been studying this concept for years and wrote a book on it.
You need to study to understand that words or assertions are not evidence.
@@Aging_Casually_Late_Gamer well ignorance on this topic is definitely ore now than ever because if this progressive so called Christianity nonsense. It proves to me that this topic needs to be preached more just like the early fathers did.
More*
Telling kids that hell exists causes harm
As a Pastor's Kid, I agree.
But Jesus descended into Hell in the Apostles creed. Where did Jesus go when he was crucified?
But it's the truth
There's no reason to fear hell since God provided a way out, so why is this still so hard for so many peopIe?
I guess if we want to live our lives the way we want and not have to feel accountable to God, and to not follow his rules, then we can create reasons and deceive ourselves into thinking the Bible doesn't actually mean what it says, that Hell isn't actually real, that sin isn't really sin, and a host of other lies.
Eventually, this leads to believing that God won't really hold you accountable for what you do on this earth, and that it doesn't matter if you accept the plan of salvation or not, and then ultimately, a belief that God doesn't exist -- or that He's not involved with us.
God doesn't want anyone to perish - 2 Peter 3:9
Jesus is the only way out of eternal death -- John 14:6
Anyone who wants to be rescued, can be; It's their choice -- John 3:16 / Romans 10:9-13
"Why is this still so hard for people?"
Because the existence of the burning hell is contradictory to the existence of all just, all knowing, all living god. Its immoral in every aspect.
@@Aging_Casually_Late_Gamer you seem to forget that God doesn’t send anyone to hell, you choose hell when you go with the devil and follow what he wants you to do, which is go against God and his word. God created Hell for the devil and those that fell with him, and the devil wants us to all fall with him. Hell is the absence of God’s presence. God won’t force you to be in his presence so if you don’t choose to follow his words, why do you think you deserve to live in eternity with his presence?
@@Marina-wh3yu no, the ball is still in gods court. I dont choose to go to hell. And if mere disbelief makes one go to hell, that's still god sending people there. Telling people they "send themselves there" is no different than telling a women it's her fault she got raped. And it still doesnr justify the immorality of hell.
@@Aging_Casually_Late_Gamer “But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.” Revelation 21. God doesn’t lie, he sent Jesus to die on the cross to save us from hell, and if you still don’t repent and follow his words, there’s nothing he can do. God is righteous and the devil is tricking this whole country into thinking God is just “love.” God is wrathful and he is loving, but our human brains can’t comprehend that.
@@Marina-wh3yu 1. You're quoting revelation, so unless you think a literal 10 headed dragon is going to come up out of the sea, then merely quoting that doesnt mean anything. 2. God absolutely lies. Reread your bible. 3. "Theres nothing he can do", really? God cant do something? Since when is god bound by anything? 4. God being wrathful is once again showing that god cannot be love. In the bible it says love is not jealous, yet god says hes a jelous god. Love is not wrathful, yet god is wrathful. He cannot be both. And 5. Not only does your reply not justify hell, your quoting of revelation also shows the complete Injustice in it. Unbelievers are the same as murderers? Lying is the same as murdering? That's not justice in any form. Which again shows the immorality of it all.
I might not agree 100% with everything you guys talked about....but I loved watching this and loved the conversation and love how you don't push anything on us you just start the conversation!!
I would just like to add to the conversation about hell, that as a person growing up having extremely low selfesteem and probably depresson from early teenage years (have never been diagnosed) the idea of hell terrified me, and put me in a very bad place. Looking back I feel like one of the biggest reasons why I was a believer was because I feared hell (other one was because all my family and friends were religious). Having low selfesteem I was always pretty sure I will go to hell, because I never deemed myself worthy of salvation. It was an endless cycle of fear that kept me seeking God, and this was pretty much the only motivator I had. Now, this is the first time as I was listening to this video that I played with the idea that hell doesn't exist. It seems to give me a vastly different point of view compared to what I've always had, and started me on a journey. I will see where this leads me, hopefully to a place of growth.
hi 2 years later where are you now on your spiritual journey
just bothered to ask
Having CONSENSUAL sex outside of marriage is NOT immoral
Yes, and it should be more accepted. We need to destigmatize sex and non marital sex.
Are you a Christian or agnostic? If you’re a Christian, you can’t endorse fornication and call it moral.
@@anonymousdontbotheraboutit2895 I’m anti-theist
Where’s the Christian scriptural prohibition of consensual sex outside marriage?
The Christian scriptural dictum to sell all your stuff and give the money away is at Luke 14:33. I assume you wrote this message on a borrowed device. Otherwise you need to sell it and give the money away.
Ephesians 5:5
“For this you know, that no fornicator, unclean person, nor covetous man, who is an idolator, has any inheritance in the Kingdom of Christ and God”
Fornication is any sexual act outside of marriage. Hope this helps🙏🏽
@@edwardwood6127 Great! Fornicators who are NOT idolaters are off the old fairy tale book’s hook.
Don’t pick and chose what you like in the Bible you must believe all words, clearly the scripture says “all scripture is inspired by Yaweh
Don’t Christians and other religious people pick and choose what they want from their holy book? The Bible in 2 Timothy, it tells women not to style their hair in braids and wear gold or pearl jewelry because that was considered ungodly. And I see Christians do it all the time and excuse it as just being a law back then. But then they justify that gay people are going to hell. I bet you wear braids or style your hair, eat shellfish, and wear certain clothing, but tell everyone else who isn’t like you that they’re going to hell. So yes... you, Christians, and other religious people pick and choose what you want from the Bible.
Which is hilarious because that means god thinks bats are birds. You'd think being "inspired" would mean they should know basic zoology.
You are speaking directly to my heart. I have been feeling this way for so long and this feels like a warm blanket. I appreciate both of you so much
Eye-opening stuff here. Why did my conservative, fundamental church never talk about the nasty side of Martin Luther?
I am glad you cover this.
To me, as a pagan, this whole idea of hell belief has been a very interesting topic.
I think some of it definently comes from a very rough translation from the bible. I heard the bible has many rough translations.
And i must say thanks, brenda! For bringing this to light!
I too agree that a lot of those things that have been addressed from the Bible and especially the many, many contradictions in it are partially if bot fully from the holy scriptures being around for thousands of years just being lost in translation. I’m agnostic and I don’t have super knowledge of the gospel or anything, but it’s insane
The concept of hell(hel) actually comes from your religion,not Judaism or Christianity.
Hell in the bible,is Sheol. Sheol is the grave. Death.
In paganism,hell is a perpetual and eternal state of torture.
As a pagan,you should know this.
@@spiritof6986 Uh that’s not true. First of all there’s many forms of pagan practice just like Christianity but never heard of that one. Mom is a witch and her entire family is in the pagan/craft/Wicca camp. Where did you learn this? Can tou provide a source ?
@@sad-qy7jz
Hi there.
Ask your mum about Halja,hel,Norse mythology.
You'll find your answers there.
Hel is pagan. Period.
@@spiritof6986 did a quick google bc again, my mom is not a theologist and her craft has no such character. Anyways straight from the summary/intro on the Wikipedia:
“Hel is a figure from Norse mythology who is said to preside over a realm of the same name, where she receives a portion of the dead. Hel is attested in the Poetic Edda, compiled in the 13th century from earlier traditional sources, and the Prose Edda, written in the 13th century by Snorri Sturluson. In addition, she is mentioned in poems recorded in Heimskringla and Egils saga that date from the 9th and 10th centuries, respectively. An episode in the Latin work Gesta Danorum, written in the 12th century by Saxo Grammaticus, is generally considered to refer to Hel, and Hel may appear on various Migration Period bracteates”.
However, the concept of an underworld where souls reside after life is a trope that predates this 13 century lore by a long shot (See Hades) who basically did the exact same thing and this was as early as 500-450 BCE .. simply designating a realm for souls to reside after death is not the same as the eternal torture, fire and brimstone, “just-for-the-bhaddies” Christian “hell as an afterlife”. concept that arose from a variety of changing and exchanging cultures. Actually, sone of the earliest and most authentic records of what hell initiallt meant in the Christian sense was svrhsllt just something used interchangeably with sin, and was a state of beinf and not physical place after death- basically the concept of being disconnected from god. Very diff from the Norse lore you mentioned. Also like I have not met a single witch or pagan that follows that very, very old and specific tradition
Salvation in Jesus Christ is a free gift to all who believe!
If you are saved please stay away from this channel
2 Tim 4
3For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;
4And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.
If it’s conditional, it’s not free.
i believe in the pursual of heaven rather than the fear of hell.
I've never been able to understand where this concept of hell as a place of torture comes from in regards tae Christianity.
Let alone an eternal place.
Study these two words;
Aionos.Olam. Hebrew and Greek respectively.
You will discover that neither translate as 'eternal'.
They both translate as 'an age' or 'a period of time'.
Hell,in regards tae the bible,is 'sheol'. Sheol is the grave.
The concept of hell is pagan. Not Jewish or early Christian.
Both groups would have considered the concept tae be disgusting.
Hell (hel) as a place of torture,finds its root in paganism.
And at least 50% of modern Christianity is based upon pagan concepts and precepts.
All verifiable,not personal opinion.
Speak tae a Rebbe.
Very good video! Though I'm...more than a little confused about why you seem to be suggesting Dante's Inferno influenced Augustine. Dante lived a fair number of centuries after Augustine so...
Your understanding of how we got to the current translations of the Bible are very flawed. You talk about the Septuagint (LXX) and act like it's this thing of the past that is wholly ignored. However, all modern translations (ESV, NIV, NASB, etc) use the Septuagint as a guiding document.
The Bible we have today did NOT get to us through some millennial game of telephone. I mean this in the most loving way possible: this is the reason there are classically trained theologians and scholars. I'm a doctoral student in theology and these are not new objections or understandings you have come across on hell (or anything else). This teaching has been refuted time and again for over 1900 years and if you had any training or education, you'd know that.
Would you make these kinds of authoritative judgments on the laws of physics, Chemistry, Philosophy, French Literature, World History, or any other academic topic without any training? Of course not..you'd never make the statement that you're not an expert on the philosophy of Hume or Descartes the proceed to judge their writings. While we have the freedom to read the Bible for ourselves and in that we can see and accept varying applications, there is only ONE meaning/intent of the biblical authors. Just like with the writings of Hume or Descartes, you can read them and form your own opinions and judgments, but that may not agree with the author's intent or original meaning. So how would you understand what Hume and Descartes were trying to say in their writings? Learn from someone who has studied them and has a good understanding. The same holds true with theology...there are many scholars who have devoted their lives to the understanding of the Bible and its contents. We may not agree but there is a formula for understanding and studying the Bible that the two of you seem to blatantly ignore or toss aside because you do not agree with it. I may not agree with everything Luther has to say (and I don't) but that doesn't mean he's entirely wrong on everything.
Understanding = Wisdom + Knowledge
Titus 1:16
They profess to know God, but they deny him by their works. They are detestable, disobedient, unfit for any good work.
1 John 2:4
Whoever says “I know him” but does not keep his commandments is a liar, and the truth is not in him,
Matthew 7:21-23
“Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. On that day many will say to me, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and cast out demons in your name, and do many mighty works in your name?’ And then will I declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from me, you workers of lawlessness.’
You never bothered to say why your ruling out Hell. You are altering the message of the gospel. God tells us we are lost and is clear we don’t get to heaven. It’s like you totally IGNORES. the Bible THAT DOES TALK about how to get to Heaven. It has nothing to do with how big and small are sins are . “for all have sinned” you are sure leaving out a chunk of the NT!
I used to believe hell was eternal in school, it messed me up a tad. But now, I don’t believe hell is eternal anymore. I lean heavily to universal salvation. I accepted it into my theology and I haven’t looked back.
Same, dude. I've become a much better person since I embraced universalism. It's a shame that the mainstream church doesn't take us seriously, and most of us have to keep quiet about it if we want to keep serving in the church.
@@cabpeer5963 Eh, I wasn’t much of a church going person. I’m pretty open about my beliefs. Plus, I reconstructed my Christian beliefs to a Buddhist framework because I had an interested Christian mysticism and Mahayana Buddhism, so my beliefs were influenced by it. I had to let go of a lot toxic beliefs in Christianity, it was hard but worth it.
But the bible clearly says it you I don't like it but it is literally clear in the bible!!
@@cabpeer5963 obviously, because your beliefs do not come from the bible. Just because you feel some way or say it made you a better person does not make it valid
@@weirdflex8158 I don’t take it literally. Eternal hell is nothing but a concept used to control the masses through fear. The Bible is not inerrant or infallible.
1:55 - "There's very few just straight up evil people in the world" - Romans 1-3 completely contradicts this. Romans 1 makes it very clear that people have become worshippers of idols and of self ("...they worshipped and served the creature rather than the Creator..." - Romans 1:25) There is a twisting of the Creator-creature relationship. As people do this more and more, God continually gives them over in judgment to sexual lust, to homosexual lust, and finally to a debased mind. ("Though they know God's righteous decree that those who practice such things deserve to die, they not only do them but give hearty approval to those who practice them." - Romans 1:32) "All have sinned and fall short of the glory of God." (Romans 3:23) The Bible makes it very clear that everyone is a sinner, and that the result of that is death (Romans 6:23). In Paul's speech on Mars Hill, he states it plainly: "The times of ignorance God overlooked, but now he commands all people everywhere to repent, because he has fixed a day on which he will judge the world in righteousness by a man whom he has appointed; and of this he has given assurance to all by raising him from the dead." - Acts 17:30-31. If all people need to repent, then all people are sinners (evil). So to say that there are few evil people in the world is a direct contradiction to Scripture.
5:40 - The explanation for hell is actually very simple. God created humans to show off His glory to. He has given us moral laws in line with His character that we are to obey. All of humanity are sinners, which means that they have disobeyed God's commands and broken His law. Just like when you get punished for stealing something from a store or lying to your parents, God must punish sin because it is an affront to Him. But God is not a sinful human like us to where He can just wink at sin or ignore it. God is holy, and thus His judgment and punishment for sin is perfect. God has decreed that those who sin will suffer His wrath (holy hatred) because of that sin. This is what hell is: God's wrath being poured out on a person because of their sin against Him. As all people are sinners, all people will one day suffer God's wrath. But this is where the Gospel comes in: God has a made a way of salvation, a way in which we can be spared the reality of hell and be reconciled to Him: by repenting of your sins and believing in Jesus's propitiation (His sacrifice on your behalf). Jesus took upon Himself the wrath of God when He was on the cross. In other words, He took the punishment that we deserve so that we would not have to endure it. Any person who repents of (turns away from) their sin and trusts in Christ's sacrifice on their behalf will be reconciled to God, and will spend eternity in Heaven with God.
7:30 - I actually somewhat agree with you here. A true Christian does not follow God out of a fear that if they don't they will go to hell. A true Christian follows God because they love Him and want to obey Him. If a person claims to follow God, but they do so because they are afraid of going to hell if they don't, then I would say that they have missed the point and are likely not a Christian. Christians do not fear hell. Christians love God.
8:55 - "I feel like true evangelism is to encourage people not to fear." This is not what evangelism is. We use the word evangelism to refer to sharing the Gospel with people, and the Gospel is not that you need to "show love" or "sense the divinity." Yes we are called to love our neighbors, but we are not saved because we do so. We are condemned, rightly, because we do not do so, and the Gospel is that God can reconcile us to Himself, forgive us for our sin, and then empower us to live righteously. Not that Christians never sin again, but that He helps us in our day-to-day walk.
9:10 - If someone in your life has not repented and placed their faith in Christ, then they are going to hell. Our responsibility is to share the Gospel with them, but whether or not they are saved is a matter between them and God. Also, encouraging this person to get out into nature and "sense the divine" is actually very bad advice. Paul makes it very clear in Romans 10:
"If you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved. For with the heart one believes and is justified, and with the mouth one confesses and is saved. For the Scripture says, 'Everyone who believes in Him will not be put to shame.' For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek; for the same Lord is Lord of all, bestowing His riches on all who call on Him. For 'everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved.' How then will they call on Him in whom they have not believed? And how are they to believe in Him of whom they have never heard? And how are they to hear without someone preaching? And how are they to preach unless they are sent? As it is written, 'How beautiful are the feet of those who preach the good news!'" - Romans 10:9-15
10:20 - The good news makes no sense if it is not given in light of peoples' present condition. The fact that Jesus came to save us from the wrath of God due us because of our sins means nothing if we don't sin, or if there is no punishment for that sin. If that's the case, then why did Jesus come at all? If there's no punishment for sin, then what exactly did Jesus save us from?
10:40 - "The gospel is meant to bring people out of poverty, sickness, and despair, and to give them hope and bring them out of sin consciousness." This is false. This is not the gospel. I would absolutely challenge the woman you had on to provide evidence for this supposed "purpose" of the Gospel. The Gospel (good news) is that there is a way to be reconciled to God. You are deserving of punishment for your sins, but God has deigned to show us mercy because He loves us.
11:25 - "It [sin] means to perceive yourself as separate from God and others." This is honestly absurd. Sin is not a lens through which we perceive things. We don't merely perceive ourselves as separated from God. We are actually separated from God. The Bible makes it clear that we are dead in our sins and trespasses, and that we are enemies of God. This is not perception, this is reality. We do not need to simply "get rid of this sin consciousness that separates us from God and others and come back to the knowledge that we are one with other people and with God." This is not a Christian statement. This actually carries overtones of Hinduism, which believes that we are all part of the One, and then you and I and a rock and a tree, there is actually no distinction between us. We are all simply part of the One. NOTHING that was said from 11:25 - 13:30 has anything to do with Christianity, and I would absolutely challenge her to provide any evidence. In fact, everything she described in this section is Hindu. Given this extremely twisted view of sin and our relationship with God and each other, I honestly don't believe this woman is saved. She doesn't seem to understand what sin actually is, or what our relationship with God actually looks like, and her solution to our "problem" looks nothing like what the Gospel actually is. And Paul makes clear in Galatians 1 that if anyone else preaches a different gospel than what He has already preached, let him be anathema (damned to hell).
14:40 - "I have been defining sin as anything that causes harm." I'm sorry, but you do not get to define what sin is. God defines what sin is. Sin is rebellion against God, being disobedient. "If anyone knows the right thing to do and fails to do it, for him it is sin." - James 4:17. Now, Romans 14 does also talk about personal sin according to ones conscience. In other words, if you honestly believe something to be a sin, and you do that thing (for example, you might believe eating meat is sinful, so if you were to eat meat) then you have sinned. Now, the Bible doesn't actually say that, for example, eating meat is a sin. But if you honestly believe something to be sinful and have chosen to abstain from it, then you are to do so according to your conscience. However, Paul makes it very clear that you cannot judge others according to these "sins of conscience" because no one else is accountable to you, they are only accountable to God. So if God has not said that it is a sin, and you don't have any personal conviction of something being a sin for you, then it is not a sin.
15:05 - "Heaven isn't later, heaven starts now." Heaven is a place. It is where God currently is, and where Jesus currently is. It's not a time. Also, there's a misunderstanding of what heaven is going to be like. "If we were feeding the poor and healing the sick and solving world hunger, heaven could be now." There will be no sick people in heaven. No one in heaven will go hungry. No one in heaven will be in pain. No one in heaven will sin. No one in heaven will die. Those things (going hungry, being sick and in pain, sinning, dying), they're all still happening right now. We are not in heaven. And this is a common misconception, but heaven is NOT the good news. The good news is not that one day you will get to go to a place where everything will be perfect and you'll never be hungry or sick and never die. The good news is that there is a chance for you to be reconciled to the God who made you and loves you enough to send His Son to take your punishment so that you might be able to spend eternity with Him. Heaven is a side benefit, not the goal. And if you are a Christian because you want to go to heaven instead of hell, then guess what, you're not a Christian. God is the focus of the Gospel, not heaven.
17:00 - "Isn't God worse than Hitler since Hitler killed 6 million Jews but God is sending billions to hell?" No. Hitler murdered people. Murder, as defined by Scripture, is the unjustified killing of an innocent person. The Jews were not guilty of any crimes against Hitler for which he killed them. God, on the other hand, in sending people to hell, is absolutely justified in doing so because all of humanity has sinned against Him. There is no innocent person. Again: "All have sinned and fall short of the glory of God." - Romans 3:23. There is not a single person in hell who does not deserve to be there. And that should not shock you. What should shock you is that every single person who goes to heaven does not deserve to be there. They were saved by God's grace (His unmerited favor). They deserve to be in hell too.
17:20 - If you break God's law, then you deserve to go to hell. God has laid out His law for how we are to behave sexually. Having sex outside of marriage, having homosexual sex, rape, incest, having sex with children, having sex with animals, all of these fall outside of the boundaries that God has set up. If you break any one of them, then you have broken God's law (sinned) and are deserving to go to hell. Now, here is where I think that the church often goes to far. Just because you have broken God's law doesn't mean that you can never be saved. Just because you had sex before you were married doesn't mean that it's impossible for you to go to heaven. Just because a man had sex with a man doesn't mean it's impossible for them to go to heaven. It's not the case that some sins are so egregious that you cannot be saved if you commit them. It is absolutely possible to be saved. What must you do? Repent (turn away from your sin) and believe the Gospel. Paul makes it clear in 1 Corinthians 6:11, after giving a vice list of sins that prevent you from getting to heaven, that "...such were some of you. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God."
20:20 - Hitler was human. We are human. Thus we are capable of committing the same sins as Hitler. However, again, this language of the "sin consciousness" that she keeps using, I would challenge her to show me where she got that in Scripture. Also, unless he repented and placed his faith in Christ, Hitler is in hell. The Bible makes this very clear.
21:00 - This is one of the biggest problems with this kind of theology. It is not based in Scripture. It is based on personal feelings. "Wouldn't you rather see Hitler become a nice person?" That is completely irrelevant. Our personal feelings do not dictate truth. God is not like us. He is not human. So just because you and I would do things a certain way, or would not do certain things, doesn't mean that God is the same. You are trying to make God into a human that shares what you feel is right and wrong, and you do not get to do that. You are creating a god in your own image, and that is idolatry.
22:00 - I would actually agree that our justice system needs some reform. I personally, as a Christian, want to see it look more likes what God considers to be justice. For example, when someone steals something, instead of putting them in jail where society now has to pay for their food and such, just make them pay back what they stole with interest. I know that there is some debate on this, but I firmly believe that if a person rapes or murders another person, then the murderer/rapist should be given the death penalty. Now, as is the case in the Old Testament, I think that our standard of conviction should be stricter because we absolutely don't want to kill someone who is innocent. But if we could absolutely prove that someone raped/murdered someone, then I 100% think that they should be put to death for it. I believe as Romans 13 says, that the government is God's instrument to reward those who do good and punish those who do evil. Even if the parties are reconciled to one another, that does not eliminate the need for justice. If I disobey my mom as a child, and then later go and reconcile to her, I'm still going to be punished for what I did. Reconciliation does not happen in place of punishment.
35:00 - "There is nowhere in the Bible where it claims to be infallible or authoritative." Uh, when God speaks, it's authoritative and infallible. End of discussion. But just for good measure:
"All Scripture is breathed out by God and is profitable for teaching, correction, rebuke, and training in righteousness, that the man of God be complete, equipped for every good work." - 2 Timothy 3:16-17
"Sanctify them in the truth, Your Word is truth." - John 17:17 (God's word is not true, meaning that it measures up to some standard of truth. God's word is truth, meaning that it is the standard by which everything else is measured. The truth, by definition, cannot be in error. In other words, the truth is infallible -> God's Word is infallible.)
"And when Jesus finished these sayings, the crowds were astonished at his teaching, for he was teaching them as one who had authority, and not as their scribes." - Matthew 7:28-29 (end of the Sermon on the Mount)
"Then Pharisees and scribes came to Jesus from Jerusalem and said, 'Why do your disciples break the tradition of the elders? For they do not wash their hands when they eat.' He answered them, 'And why do you break the commandment of God for the sake of your tradition? For God commanded, "Honor your father and your mother" and "Whoever reviles father or mother must surely die." But you say, "If anyone tells his father or his mother, 'What you would have gained from me is given to God,' he need not honor his father." So for the sake of your tradition you have made void the word of God. You hypocrites! Well did Isaiah prophesy of you when he said:
"This people honors me with their lips, but their heart is far from me; in vain do they worship me, teaching as doctrines the commandments of men."'" - Matthew 15:1-9
There were a number of other things I noticed in this video, but I think these points that I've made get my point across.
this one's a thinker, thanks brenda!
The original Hebrew interpretation literally never says the word hell. It was added in because people were coming to church less and less and needed a way to get people there so they could take their money. They even charged for “tickets to heaven”.
Very interesting 🤔 thank you for this comment, I’m gonna look more into it
I’m not sure on that to be honest but I do know the New Testament talks about heaven and hell a lot.
@@paigeemcwaigee yes a lot was added in and taken out and misinterpreted to both old and new
The New Testament was Greek. Not Hebrew. Hel is the Norse underworld and thus a fitting translation of Hades, the Greek translation for Sheol. Hel is thus the realm of dead which Jesus also travelled to according to the creed. There are other words that also get translated as hell and that's confusing because the Greek text might speak of Gehenna or the abyss or Tartaros. And they are either places of judgement or the abode of demons. An entirely different thing is purgatory and that's not literally in the Bible and has a closer connection to indulgences (as you called them tickets to heaven).
@@kadda1212 there’s a lot honestly. So many interpretations, languages, add ins and take outs. If we were to lay it all out, we’d have an entire essay haha my point mainly is just that it’s a great historical story but that’s all it is, a story.
This video helped me a lot. Growing up all my life in an evangelical Christian church, I have always felt uneasy in my heart about the idea of hell as we know it. I would grapple often with the common question of "If God is so loving, (if he has such unconditional unfathomable love for everyone,) why would he damn anyone to that type of eternal suffering." The idea of going to hell for such small things, like impure thoughts or lying, unless you repented and meant it was ridiculous to me, but I had been SO indoctrinated my whole life and taught not to trust my own mind because of pastors saying that Satan can manipulate your thoughts and use you without you knowing it and other messages that teach you to doubt your own intuition. It was one of the biggest reasons I began my deconstruction, and I just really appreciate this channel for helping me through it all. This is such an important conversation, and I truly hope more people will be realizing things mentioned in this video rather than suffering their whole lives living with anxiety and terrified of their eternal fate. Faith shouldn't be fear-based, and the Church has scared us into believing in harmful ideologies for too long.
I'm scared ti deconstruct....could you give advice?
@@matildesalvalaio8667 be balanced. Hell does exist just as Heaven does. But you don't need to be afraid if you have a relationship with God.😁😁
@@matildesalvalaio8667 While many deconstructed people have lost their faith in doing so, I dont think you have to do that necessarily. For what it's worth from complete layman, I would say look at the parts of christianity that concern you, then try and dig into sources of that history from a non apologetic source. And then continue onto each section. It might take years, but at least you can say you are being honest.
Neo-evangelicalism and Progressive modernism are both wrong. Please follow God's word. Stay away from Brenda.
2 Corinthians Chapter 11
13 For such [are] false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into the apostles of Christ.
14 And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light.
15 Therefore [it is] no great thing if his ministers also be transformed as the ministers of righteousness; whose end shall be according to their works.
@@wststokes7373 the bibles reiteration of no true scostman.
Both conditional immortality and universal reconciliation predate the traditional view.
Traditional does not mean original.
@47 IQ right true.
I think that hell exists, but not popculture hell. There is so much talk about judgement and some certainly deserve it - but I am not the one to judge. And not everyone will be saved although God longs for everyone to be saved. I think that seems also clear from the Bible. Anyways what do I think what hell is or should I say the second death? As believers we are to become a new creation, to become the image of Christ, that is to become truly human. People who remain in sin (which I define as anything going against love) will remain an old creation, will not put on Christ, not be his image and eventually cease to be human and become something else, something dark and evil and perverted (kind of like the Picture of Dorian Gray I imagine). I don't think that in that form of existence one can be close to God without suffering. And maybe it is an act of mercy to die forever once you are in that state. And I assume one dies if they don't eat from the tree of life.
There are simply people who decide to do that which is evil. Can they receive forgiveness? If they repent, absolutely. But some do not. And God can't force it.
i do resonate with this more as it is more based on the love you have, not about believing the right things. Because the former seems consistent with a loving deity but the latter ....i cant wrap my head around someone being punished after death simply because they were a skeptic...or after trying in earnest didn't find enough evidence to believe in something. that just seems stupid to me.
@@LipSyncLover As of right now I wonder if one can follow Christ by their actions despite lacking faith. I know that so many who profess Jesus with their mouth don't do it with their heart. Maybe both is necessary, I don't know.
Maybe they still receive a chance of responding once they see God - I don't know. Some things are difficult because God waits so long with his judgement day. So many people die without having believed...
I just assume God is just and wise and he will only judge those who deserve it and who am I to say who that is. I think though it's also dangerous to say that he couldn't speak judgement because that would make him evil. He's not to be judged by human standards. The creator of everything has every right to tear it all down and turn it into chaos again. He promised not to, but he could. I just say clay and potter. Who are we to judge God's actions?
@@kadda1212 well, just in my opinion. i think you can follow christ in action without faith? I just think faith can really help and both is better than one (which i think is pretty biblical too). One of the things I observe...and this is a generalization....is that atheists may have a harder time with softening their heart. So much things happen in life that are awful, traumatic, grotesque....the natural impulse is to toughen up but sometimes it can toughen our hearts. I think if I were an atheist and didn't routinely pray my bitterness away....I would be far less soft, which surely, can lead to sins.
And welp, Idk. on one hand I can understand why you say God isn't to be judged by human standards....but on the other hand, i SHOULD HOPE...that if God decreed it was good to kill everyone born in the month of August.....that people might pause and say "hey thats pretty evil". I think we can draw some lines. And I also can't really make sense of a God that to an extent endows me with a conscience, and all of us with some universals in terms of right and wrong (i'm not saying its ALL universal but some things are)....and yet, I can't tell when something is evil? I dont know....none of us have a full grasp of God but I trust myself enough to be able to tell when a human portrait of God depicts God as evil and I don't think any good God, knowing my limitations in knowledge, would punish me for discarding such a portrait.
And you're right God could tear it all down if God wanted...but if God sadistically made everyone suffer? Well....i haven't any clue why such a God is one I'd want to worship? luckily. I dont think that's how God is
That sounds pretty accurate
@@kadda1212 Yes, both are necessary. The Bible says if you believe in your heart, and confess with your mouth, that Jesus is Lord, you will be saved.
Can someone explain to me what the controversy is over the Message Bible?
If hell is not a physical space does that mean heaven is not a physical space?
They don’t have physical locations if that’s what u mean. Like no matter how much we explore we will never find them while we are alive.
They will eventually be a physical place. After God comes back.
Personally I believe that those who believe in God are granted eternal life to spend with him, and those who don't believe in God just don't get eternal life. So I guess I don't believe in hell but I also don't believe in universal salvation, because the Bible does stress the importance of being saved and following God with all your heart. We don't have to choose between everyone goes to heaven or some people get eternally punished though, there is quite a bit of biblical evidence that those who don't believe just... don't live eternally.
Rob Bell’s book, Love Wins, was the first time I considered much of what you discuss here. I then sought other theologians and studied for myself only to find it’s no where near as clear cut as the western evangelicals I trusted insist. I am not of universalist thought yet, but I am convinced we will be surprised by grace and not disappointed.
Rob Bell is a disgrace, I would NOT want to be in his shoes on judgment day, that's for dang sure. He even denies Christ died for our sins, he's literally the worst.
If you don't think hell is real, please watch '23 minutes in hell'. It's here on UA-cam. He was shown round hell and Jesus explained to him exactly what it is and why it was created.
@@junipercosmic6841 Curious, did you read Love Wins?