Sad day; Nissan EnV200 Failed | Real Life EV Ownership
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- Опубліковано 30 гру 2023
- The sad day has come where our second EV, the env200 we bought new 6.5 years ago has come to a bit of a grinding halt, now only doing ~25 miles per charge.
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So it basically hasn't lasted anywhere near as long as an equivalent petrol car would have?
Without a reliable, easily available and cost effective solution to battery degradation this is not simply not an environmental option.
Electric cars should not be coming to market until this issue is resolved.
Let the rich people work out the issues.
Just to add ..........
In my garage Ive a car ( classic ) that is petrol and 48 years old.
So mine is still working and by what u said u would take 8 cars
to last that long ......... So who is doing more harm to the planet ?
I had a vauxhall Corsa engine blow up out of warranty was in the same position, this battery of Ian's can be easily repaired for less than a grand he's just not looked in to it properly yet and made a troll feed video sadly.
For comparison my petrol car needed a new turbo at a similar age and fewer miles. The difference is you can get that fixed anywhere whithout having to buy a whole new engine. This battery problem is almost certainly one bad module. To fix it should be a case of cracking open the battery and replacing that madule with a used one of similar health. It shouldn't be a big deal but there are few places that will do this right now.
Question is how much labour required simply to access the battery to check all the modules?@@davidquinn5906
So, at roughly 7 years old, the Nissan is no longer financially viable? Not exactly very sustainable, considering that the 2 ICE cars in our household are 13 and 21 yrs old, and still going strong.
If this has Leaf battery system, it is not good. Came without cooling system and overheating burned batteries. Not really representative of current tech. Still sad fail.
I am of exactly the same opinion, i have a 16 reg 30 kwhr leaf with 33% degradation, nearing the end of it's useful life at 7 3/4 years old. I also own a 15 year old Mercedes E Class 2.2 cdi and a 19 year old Mazda MX5 1.8 petrol. Both cars have the range and fuel efficiency they were bought with and both cars, after being well cared for are operating perfectly. How can an EV, be more environmentally friendly, if you have to release twice the carbon in manufacture, with an EV only having half the lifetime expectation of an ice car. I for one have given up on EV's they are just not fit for purpose and definitely not the answer to the environmental problems. It is so dissapointing in my journey of EV knowledge to be let down by the reality of knowing that EV's were just a misguided distraction to finding something better than internal combustion engines, which they are definitely not.
@@MrRaitziUnfortunately all lithium ion batteries degrade with time and use cycles. The id and i pace ranges with liquid cooling are prime examples. Battery life channel's id3 has degraded 10% in 2 years. Liquid cooling is no panacea for battery longevity, although it helps a little.
@@stevezodiac491Your Mercedes and Mazda most definitely won't have the same fuel efficiency as new. Unless you've found a magical way to stop entropy. Still I take your point, but I would argue there are plenty of cars that don't make it to the 23 yo mark.
Of course electric vehicles are worse for the environment
Why would anyone buy one of these things? You failed to factor in the fact that had you bought a new conventional car 6 years ago you would still have a perfectly serviceable vehicle, whereas with your electric vehicle you now have a ton of highly toxic junk that needs to be disposed of, the conventional vehicle would also have a very good resale value. A complete ecological fail in my estimation!
Because not all batteries fail there are some Leafs on 140k and only 20% drop
@@ClaudeMonecelThe true state of lithium cells is unknown at any given time. The monitoring system only estimates cell charge based on past usage, that is, how much current draw has been calculated in proportion to the new capacity of the battery.
You see this ALL THE TIME with cell phone batteries. They report the state of charge as being whatever, then they suddenly begin to drop as they approach end of life, and an actual voltage measurement reveals that it had nowhere near the state of charge reported when just taken off the charger.
Very green toxic waste tho
it maybe toxic but than so is oil. at least this battery can be recycled and will be , as it constituent chemicals and materials are worth quite a bit. Maybe you should give that some thought? I will be getting a second hand leaf because they are cheap to run, reliable and generally good cars. over its life this leaf would have saved co2 that and its current battery might still be repairable . my old toyota corolla was 3 years old when the auto box failed it was replaced by toyota , 2 years later the head cracked which i payed for . I had a bunch of issues from air bags to ecu’s not working I finally got rid of it, so convetional cars are no guarantee either . But i bet electric cars will be more reliable than ice.
The EV battery will be recycled, what about all that highly toxic exhast from burning oil? Oh wait, can't be recycled at all.
I have followed you from your earliest EV days. I was very impressed by EV's because of your channel, so i bought a 2016 30 kwhr Nissan Leaf Teckna 6.6 charger in Arctic White. I used to sing it's praises early on because i was so enamoured by the car. At a consumer's Nissan function i was invited to, i impressed the boss of Nissan Sunderland so much, that i was invited there by the Manager, a Mr Charlton, as i remember, to a Sunderland factory tour and was the first ever private citizen to be shown around their battery manufacturing centre there, which was then the largest clean room in europe at tgat time. That was the start, my wife and i shortly after that, had to go to a funeral in Glasgow from Teesside, so we thought that we could go up and back in a day in the leaf. All the chargers were free then, so we thought that we were on to a winner. We knew that it would take longer because of the rapid charging so we set off ultra early at 6. a.m. To cut a long story short, we were late for the funeral and had to sneak into the back along with one of the chief mourners ( my father in law in his 80's ). We left the funeral and bun fight behind and headed home. We finally arrived home at approx 2. a.m. the next day. Not only that after 5 rapid charges the battery was in the red and towards the end of the drive, we didn't think that we were going to get the last 7 th charge because of battery heat management protection, fortunately we did and made it home. After a while we stopped doing longer journeys ( not as long as glasgow ) because of so many instances of charging infrastructure problems and left those to our ice cars to do. The car was now tethered locally to it's octopus go home charger now for the most part for the rest of it's journeys. Even so after 5 years the battery bars started disappearing. Now after 7 3/4 years we have lost 4 out of 12 bars, with 33 % degradation. My opinion of EV's after my long experiment, is that they are inferior by miles, to what was already on the road, a longer journey time and a hassle and anxiety filled experience on longer journeys never to be repeated. Obviously i am extremely dissapointed but i have first hand experience now, of how bad they really are, which was interesting anyway. I will never buy another EV and obviously in their current form EV's are not the answer. I was so impressed with the leaf, i have given the wife it to drive. It is now a short distance shopping trolley, getting a shorter distance by the day.
Wow, thanks for sharing. Sounds like a very stressful experience. Can’t imagine doing that with kids.
Very interesting story, thank you. If I ever considered getting an EV, which I haven't, this has decided it for me. The battery life problem is a real problem. Wouldn't you have thought that by now a battery exchange scheme would be in place, where you could trade in your old battery in for a new, or reconditioned one, at a reduced price. The company could then recondition the old battery, at a reduced cost considering only the defunct cells would need to be replaced, rather than the whole unit. EVs have a long way to go in my opinion, before they become a viable replacement for ICE cars.
Thanks for sharing the story Steve. I reckon you could make a nice UA-cam video out of that! It would help to let others know.
@@thisisscottsIn the comments of every youtube EV channel i watch, i comment my EV story. The trouble is, when you actually buy an EV, they are very good to drive and you quickly get the impression that they are the best thing since sliced bread ( for a while ). Unfortunately as your EV experience develops, all the flaws with EV's present themselves to you, over a period of time. Because of the large investment you have made, you make large allowances because you do not want to admit to the mistake you have made and even the flaws are looked at with rose coloured spectacles. Until that day when you finally realise the reality of how bad they really are compared to what was there before and the battery lifespan turns out to be half of what a well looked after, equivalently priced ice car would last. I often comment my story but people up until now have been filled with EV propaganda so much, that i get called a liar and good story, tell me another etc. but as all EV's age, to about the age of mine and Ian's vehicles, this story will become a common theme and EV's will become another dead end in the evolution of the car. Even liquid managed battery models like the I-Pace and Volkswagen's i d range are showing degradation, even at 2 years old ( battery life channel's id3 with 10% degradation in 2 years ).
EV's are a dead end. The reality is that i am not a 'hater' , i am just a consumer, like any other common man, wanting good value, convenient and reliable transport. My own experience is, that EV's are not it.
@@stevezodiac491 that all makes sense to me. Thankfully I've been sceptical since learning about the energy density of batteries versus petrol/diesel, and as an engineer I have experience with power generation and mining and have an idea of the monumental task of electrifying everything (especially if it's to be done, say, before the end of the decade).
Something's gotta give, and I'm starting to see opinions changing.
Best way to solve your problem mate is scrap that piece of junk and buy a ICE
Why anyone would put themselves through that! 30 miles? That would be a round trip for me to the supermarket. I shall stick with my little Fiat Punto diesel which gets potentially 560 miles range on a full tank and takes less than 5 mins to refuel. So many people duped into buying these EV nightmares.
I've had electric cars for 12 years and had zero problems, he can get cells in this pack replaced for less than 2K he's just not looked about yet before making the video.
I could buy a decent diesel car for £2k!@@knoxieman
@@knoxiemanYour testimony is meaningless if you don't quantify it with your use case. Maybe you drive 10 miles per week, or every other week. Maybe you never do long trips. Totally meaningless testimony.
“Duped into buying” great coming from the person who is duped into ploughing money into the likes of the oil giants profits and government taxes.
everyone needs are different. My old nissan leaf 30kwh still meets them as daily commuter car. It doesn't mean it will meet someone else needs.
And yes new electric cars are better than older ones with smaller batteries . ( realistic winter range for my leaf is 60miles at motorway speeds of 70mph)
This just proves EVs are not the future a bitter pill to swallow for many
They may be the future, but only if advances in battery technology happen. And infrastructure improvements.
“Proves” - lol!
This is the first battery failure I’ve heard about so you can’t base your opinion on this one… ICE car engines can fail and need replacement too… my brother in law had to reject a brand new car as the gearbox wouldn’t go into top gear, and it was just out of the factory.
@@macjim
Thankfully he had the warranty to fall back on .
Although it must have been a great inconvenience for him
@@macjim yeah but they don't cost 10 K pluss to replace well not in most cases I've been looking at some cases in Canada where Hyundai battery on a two year old car was 56 thousand dollars I think in the story there was three different cases of about the same
Meanwhile, my 20 yr old Lincoln Towncar engine purrs along perfectly, the car drives like butter, the massive leather seats are plush and cozy… minimal repairs required, no car payments, lowest taxes, lowest insurance rate. It also has zero chance of burning down my garage.
There are 50+ year old cars rolling down the road, chugging along getting the same fuel mileage they did when there were hundreds, if not thousands, of the same vehicles.... You won't see any EVs of today driving around in 20 years, let alone 50!
I thought that at first with Hybrids, until I saw a First Gen Prius in cherry condition on the highway last year (2023 summer). I was so surprised I had to take a photo of it
I have 2 Towncars, an 84 and a 2006, both in beautiful condition and both running like a sewing machine. These EVs are essentially disposable cars.
So true! 😂
@@michaelboydston9668 I went 17 years w/o a car payment, and still got around comfortably. We are not at that point where electric cars are a good solution over combustion. I think we have another 10 years to before this becomes a better alternative.
@@HadToChangeMyName_UA-camSucks / I’d like to tear-down a late model Mark VIII and rebuild it to high-performance specifications.
Wow. My 9 year old diesel with 90k on the clock still has 600 miles range on a single tank and zero road tax.
What a fool I am for not living the EVangelist dream.
my 15 year Chrysler 300c v6 diesel with 127k still alive with 500 miles at best
and still polluting.
@@jean-marcgruninger9019 and so is everything else
I'm a 207 peugeot diesel 15 years old 148600 miles on clock had new times belt at 90300 miles that should off been done at 75000.
And how many tons of oil have been burnt up for this? Next time check that before writing such an idiotic comment.
If you've been burned once, why would you want to risk being burned again? That is the definition of crazy.
…if we did not have 4 EV’s in total. Out of the 8 we have owned only this one has thrown up an error of this nature.
Its a big leap to write off all evs ever made because of this single fault. My own env200 is even older and has no issues. Parents 24kwh Leaf is at 130,000 and still going strong.
I have a Nissan NV200 combi diesel. Its 13 years old and still in good order and running fine. I did look at replacing it a couple of years ago with another diesel and was told I couldn't as only. electric was available with a realistic range, new, of 125 miles. At the time that electric NV200 was £30,000. So my trusty (not rusty) diesel NV200 is still here - as I'm no youngster I reckon it will outlve me and not incur £30,000 in repairs in the next ten years..........electric is not the answer, its not even eco friendly.
At least it didn’t burst into flames .
Maybe if it did it would be beneficial .😂
What’s with all the troll comments from EV haters?
@@lumicolour1 it’s a shame Nissan hasn’t offered a reconditioned pack , after all the work Ian has done promoting their products .
@@lumicolour1not troll comments at all, he is right to point out that lithium ion batteries can and do go into a state of thermal runaway, with the reaction being self oxygenating and unlike normal car fires cannot be smothered to eliminate the third leg of the combustion triangle to extinguish it. Lithium ion batteries are also known to reignite long after the initial combustion has gone out. They may not be more frequent than normal ice vehicle fires but their consequence can be catastrophic to the car in question, surrounding cars and surrounding infrastructure and people, demanding a whole new procedure to try and contain the fire and lessen it's consequences. For instance, i never charge my EV in my garage, only on the drive. Once this EV has gone, i won't be buying another one.
unlike that diesel ranger rover at luton airport:-)
Sorry to hear that Ian. This situation of EV replacement Batteries, being unviable is seriously frustrating. Thanks for showing the ownership story warts and all. Hopefully, some Cells can be exchanged...
Good to have hope Few or ten cells if broken is realy not much cost. But rermoval from car and refurbishing reassembling and granting safety is. I can imagine problems because not one time I replaced cells in small batteries in say cordless drill or video camera and when I multiplay it by number of cells in car battery it looks for me better option to adopt complete new model.
@@Mikexception if one cell is toast, then the rest are degraded. If you know anything about batteries, the load from one cell must be equalized thru the whole battery or you will destroy those cells.
Clearly that's what has happened, there's a problem with the battery control module which is not balancing the load.. or the cells are just plain poorly made.
If one cell is shot, you can guarantee the rest are on their way out.
You replace with a whole battery, not cell by cell.. the other cells are 6+ years old.. replace them all, or you're just going to repeat this process again and again.
@@demcomp Correct but some people here are hoping to pay 500 USD and ready (for 50 miles more) It's their right. . I tried to maintain that hope but also made warnings with final conclusion of adaptation of whole new kind battery, You just distroyed them totaly because your advice in mission impossible - whole original battery is no available.
BTW . I did not mention that I replaced only part of cells.
My drill after replacement of ALL cells and used often works fine already 5 years while with original cells only 2 years The same with video batteries - no problems. Try to think positively about other people skills.
@@Mikexception unfortunately I don't work off hope and prayers... Reality is biting these people hard in the ass now. They bought into the hype, they believed the Lord of Lies, the great Electric Jesus Himself, and now they are seeing the consequences of their decisions.
There's a reason it has been forced on us, and the reason is not the ones they're telling us.
The original gasoline powered car beat the original electric cars...
Poor range, long charging times, too expensive, inadequate battery technology, cars were too heavy.....
And it happened organically. It was not mandated at all. Gasoline cars pushed out horse drawn carriages and wagons, because they were faster, easier, cheaper, didn't require seperate housings, such as barns, could pull more, could run longer at a faster speed, could travel further.... Etc etc etc....
They just replaced them all organically because they were better. They're still better.
Batteries degrade with recharge cycles... A car's lead acid battery has a life of 5-10 years... How does anyone assume a Lithium Ion battery is any different??? The electrolyte solution breaks down over time, the cells break down over time.. nothing has changed... In 5-10 years the batteries will become unusable.
And look here, 6 years, the battery is now unusable.
Think about Cell Phones, which use Lithium Ion batteries as well, how many people do you know are walking around with 5+ year old cell phones? Likely very few, because the battery has degraded to the point that you either leave it plugged in almost all the time, or you've had to replace the battery... 🤷
TL;DR - Batteries fail over time, you get 5-10 years out of batteries on average (rechargeable)..
Believing large Lithium Ion batteries in EVs are any different than the ones found in cell phones is amusing. Cell phones last about 5 years before the battery begins to really show signs of failure... EVs are no different. 🤷
You don't seem to have taken account that an equivalent 6 year old ice would still have substantial residual value and would have provided much greater convenience. Also I don't believe that your electric charging costs are 16% of petrol/diesel ( 2k Vs 12k). EV delusion.
In the UK petrol is very expensive, so I can believe it's 1/6th, especially if you have solar.
@@brushlessmotoring Yeah I forgot you don't need to pay for solar panels they are free.
@@jlrguy2702 the home storage batteries are free also and the interest to pay for them is zero as well, they also don't degrade with time and use cycles the same as EV batteries lol.
@@stevezodiac491 get to work and pay some more taxes I want money off my ev and more subsidies and tax back.
He says he has owned many EV'S. I'll go out on a limb and guess he knows more than you. Home charging costs are 6- 7 times cheaper for me, so believe it.
A lack of foresight will be seen in hindsight... This gentleman is sharing his hindsight so the rest of us will have wisdom in foresight. Thank you.
If you bought a diesel or petroleum You’ll be okay for the next hundred thousand miles
Not uncommon for a Japanese made Toyota to reach 1 million with original engine/ gearbox.
My SUV has 400K on the clock and runs perfectly.
Till they stop selling diesel fuel in the next 10 years 😢
@@johnodell5310That's never going to happen.
I guess we can't talk about tailpipe emissions anymore - no one wants to acknowledge the damage their combustion engines are doing? This van is fixable, or recyclable, I think Ian has jumped the gun a little on the doom and gloom.
@@brushlessmotoring I guess we can't mention that EV assembly processes have a carbon footprint 7 times higher than the ICE alternatives.
EVs are a busted, highly flammable flush.
I think the anti EVers must have missed the bit where he said he has got his purchase price back through running cost savings.
Unlikely, lost £14000 in value, a diesel would still be worth about £6500, cost of diesel for 86k miles £10k.
@bordersw1239 really? I have the equivalent diesel at £11500. Plus years of Rfl. And some residual value. And years of more expensive servicing. I have a mk1 Leaf and I'm pretty confident that I will break even in 4 years time with mine. And that's on 6k miles a year.
@oneeyedgirl617 - corrects pretty much all paid for. Just a shame to get rid 6.5 years in..hopefully cost of fix will be low so dont have to reinvest back in
@@IanSampsonRLO Please keep us updated on your research regarding repairs.
@IanSampsonRLO yeah, l appreciate that you would have liked to keep making savings and it's a bit shit. Hopefully, it's a relatively cheap fix. I certainly don't regret buying our leaf.
Sorry to hear that. You must of gotten a bad pack. I got a 2015 env200. It has never given me a problem at 160k milage.
We don’t know what the longevity of the newer Battery chemistry is either .
You can have a catastrophic failure of a new battery ( just read American Tesla forums online ) it’s rare but if you are unlucky out of warranty the battery can cost £20k .
The battery has always been the weak point , that and queuing for chargers and the fact we are not sure if they are better for the environment, for example the recycling of old batteries is highly carbon intensive and it’s filthy process .
I drive an EV and this video gives me pause for thought , unfortunately trade ins for EV’s are an all time low .
What we need is Battery insurance, when cars are out of warranty, this would only work of course if your experience is a rare one .
I find EV's just a waste of time (literally) and unnecessary stress...
I take it you've owned a few then.
Good to see you posting! Sorry for the difficulty’s with your car
Cheers!
Hi so sorry to hear that been watching you for years hope you manage to get it all resolved.all the best👍🏼👍🏼👍🏼
A module (or modules) could be replaced but, in my experience with battery packs, if one module has failed the remaining modules are not far behind. This type of repair is still possible but with the manufactures trying to reduce cost by making the pack part of the structure (filling the packs with glue - Tesla model Y and model 3 that I know of) this repair will not be possible in the future as it will not be viable to take the pack apart. Hope you find a solution.
There's a huge ' duh' factor here. Lost for words.
I've been wanting to buy an EV but I still can't afford it but now I see it's a good thing
Listening to all of the EV battery stories, my calculation is they will cost twice as much to operate and maintain than an ICE car , that's after you've paid double to purchase the car in the first place. An EV with a dead battery will be worthless, ICE vehicle with a broken fuel tank will only set you back about $500 , for a replacement, and the car will maintain a decent value
At least twice as much. Likely more.
A blown engine is a better comparison as the battery on an EV is really the main component. The Leaf / ENV200 were very poorly designed, plenty of thermally managed, charge managed (below 80%) EVs are far outlasting these Leafs - don't assume all EV's are like this.
@@brushlessmotoringcome back and say that when the new EV's of today are 7, 8 years old. All lithium ion batteries degrade with time and use cycles to a greater or lesser extent. Ice cars do not, ever !
@@brushlessmotoring the reason I said fuel tank is because it stores the fuel , the EV storage is the battery, the electric motor isn't the problem with the EV from what I see , I would imagine that the electric motor and the ICE would be roughly the same cost to replace if they fail.
@@kingdomfor1 With the exception of the carbon fibre wrapped high RPM Plaid motor, no, the electric motor is realtively cheap, and rarely goes anyway, the same is true of well designed batteries too. Labour is one issue with an IC engine swap - so many pipes .... if you can do this yourself, you are more capable than I.
For one (1) ton of lithium produced you also get fifteen (15) tons of CO2 Lithium batteries saving the world. ????
And extracting, refining, transporting and burning gasoline only emits fairy dust?
Once you have the lithium you can re-use it with a 90% recovery rate, and 1 ton of lithium, which is a very small component of a battery, will deliver billions of emission free miles.
This is whataboutism and selective outrage at it's finest.
@@brushlessmotoring still got an extra 15 tons of CO2 per ton of lithium. When lithium runs out, STILL got that 15 tons of CO2 per ton of lithium floating around planet.
@@steventurner8428 you don’t get it, extracting lithium is a one time cost, it doesn’t get consumed by the EV, it’s still present even in a degraded pack, and can be recovered, compared to ongoing and continuous emissions from fossil fuels, EVs are cleaner and set us up for a closed loop recycling of old batteries into new batteries without the need to extract new materials. It is significantly better than having to always go looking for fresh oil to burn.
This is an important lesson. 88k Miles and such massive derogation. But ICE vehicles are expensive to fix as well
My 2014 eNV200 still has all 12 bars showing on the battery health/degredation meter. It doesn't have the fast/rapid charging options.
How about getting the battery checked to see how many modules have gone and take it from there.Could just be 2 or 3 modules are dud,and Clevely have done that job before.
Yup it's less than 2K if it's just a couple of modules, every 6 month service on my brother's petrol BMW runs him £1,200, speak to James and Kate directly on their YT channel.
@@knoxiemanBMWs are expensive to maintain and a bad example. My 2013 Lexus is $60 every 6 months to change the oil (which I change early at 5000km). $120 maintenance a year. My 17 year old RAV4 I don’t drive as much (5000km/year) and change the oil annually ($60).
Maybe your brother should buy a Toyota
What about the warranty 8 years 100k miles , correct?
Seems to be, I can’t find any info to the contrary. Details of the warranty based on SOH will be in the service book / manual.
If it’s as bad as you say, the dash should have registered a dropped bar. If not it could be close.
Probably a duff module, you’ll see a mile off in Leafspy.
Similar thing happened to another UA-camr called @nogasniko with a 30kW leaf.
It kept registering a fault as the module would be pulling down the voltage in the pack when he put his foot down. Knocked it into limp mode.
They couldn’t get him a new pack so bought the car back.
From the nissan website:
“24 KWH LEAF : If the battery capacity level gauge of your 24 kWh Nissan Electric
Vehicle falls below 9 bars (out of 12 bars) within 60,000 miles or the first 5 years of
the vehicle’s life (whichever comes first), Nissan will repair or replace the damaged
battery components free of charge to bring the capacity up to 9 bars.”
www.nissan.co.uk/content/dam/Nissan/gb/vehicles/leaf/product_code/1_carryover/owner_benefits/EV%20Customer%20Promise%20T%26C%27s%2005.02.18.pdf
@@IanSampsonRLO ah, talk about buried.
It does though say 24kWh LEAF? I can’t see an ENV200 section.
I did find another but buried with a chart specifying simply 24kWh vehicles so :(. A bit of a PITA given that the wear rate would be higher per cell in a 24kWh. Suppose that’s why the warranty is shorter.
@@IanSampsonRLOfor the 30 kwhr Leaf, it is 8 years and brought up to 9 bars but the line that frightens me is ' at Nissan's discretion ' so no guarantee at all, if they just say no, for whatever reason they decide ?
Thanks for the cost 💲 comparisons I just had one question is it the same price to insure an EV compared to and ICE in the UK for similar vehicles
Book it in at Cleevley to have it diagnosed. After watching one of their videos repairing a second gen leaf battery gave me the confidence to buy an EV, knowing that a failed module can be quite easily replaced and iirc the cost at the time was about £500.
I was hoping by this point at over a decade of mass produced EVs on the road, there would be alot more of this kind of support available.
Regardless, with the little knowledge I have, I believe you most likely have a single failed module that can replaced without breaking the bank.
Yup Ian should have waited before making this video, cleevely and other garages will swap 2 modules for less than 2K all in.
@knoxieman last I heard, Cleveland have stopped doing battery swaps.
If one module's on its way out, you can guarantee the others aren't far behind. You'll be in and out of the garage every month or so for a new module. You'll need deep pockets then.
No. It's time to cut your losses and buy a CDI eco. You'll feel a lot better mentally, and your wallet will thank you for it.
@B08Y I don't believe that's the case. If it was, the battery packs would all be failing at a similar age and mileage. The 2nd gen 24Kwh pack that Ian has in his ENV 200 is well known for being very robust and covering way more miles.
Personally, I'd have at least one attempt at repair. If it then fails again, maybe at that point, it's time cut ones losses.
Well, they don't seem very robust after 6 or 7 years, do they.
@ £2,000 a pop, as I say, it makes more sense to cut your losses, learn from your mistake, and buy a ICE vehicle.
Such a great car in every way, I hope the battery situation can be fixed.
Does a dying battery waste the charge that you try to give it, or is the actual current draw less for the entire charging cycle? I'd like to know if this is factored into the so-called efficiency of BEVs.
Yes, it comes out as heat. The efficiency of EVs is proven, it's not "so-called".
I bought a new VW Golf just under 5 years ago under the VW diesel scrappage scheme.
My old VW Golf which I bought new in 2006 was traded in for a brand new Golf 1.5 150bhp petrol with the new price was around £25k...I got £6k for my old Golf and also some extras plus discounts...
Overall my new VW Golf GT cost me around £19K cash.
So I have this great VW Golf which has done around 15k miles and is still like new as I keep it in a garage over the winter......A full tank can take us anywhere in the UK without any hassle.
Looking at new VW EVs...The ID3 for example.....For an equivalent to my trusty VW Golf, a new one would cost around £50k!!
Trading in my Golf which I reckon would be worth around £15k if I am lucky, I would have to fork out £35K to go electric!!
Obviously, like the Golf I owned previously (2006 to 2018), and 12 years old and very reliable, I think that I will stick with my trusty newish VW Golf for another ten years at least.....That will take me to 87 years old....
Why on earth anybody would buy an EV is beyond comprehension.....The prices are just far too high.
(By the way a new VW Golf petrol now cost around £30k with the extras....£20k less than a new ID3).
They would be better to buy a S/H VW Golf, if they can get their hands on one and stick with it.....
I hope you find a good solution to the issue. I bought a Zoe ZE40 at the same time as you. I kept it three years. I think it's a pity that the charging situation has deteriorated in many ways over the last seven years. It has to be cheap to balance the inconvenience and now it isn't. Vehicle duty is free but insurance for EVs is high these days. I have an SLK now. I'll get another EV if and when the charging situation improves but I also think battery repair specialists are required to keep older vehicles on the road at reasonable cost. Good luck.
Horrendous depreciation plus massive repair costs = money ill spent.
Hi Ian hasn't the battery have an 8 year warranty if its less than 70% but I don't know if you needed to have it serviced by nissan? Sorry to hear about the issue there should be someone who could just change the cells which are faulty kind regards Mark hope you all had a good Christmas and New year
Have a go I did mine no issues Dala ev repair has put the can bridge software up for free I'm now looking at a cell swap with a different chemistry and more range but that will be in the future, but a 40kwh swap would be easy you would need to get the Aircon drained and refilled when doing it as it has a basic cooling system on the battery
What is the warranty on the vehicle battery? Might be worth contacting Nissan to see if they can help!
Any possibility of trading in against the new electric Nissan van that is replacing this model?
I’m still driving my 20 yr old Renault Clio. Paid £1200. For it 8 yrs ago.
I had a renault clio for 15 years, eventually the heater matrix failed. I gave it away for free, with nothing else wrong with it to a friend. He ran it for years after that.
What is done with spent battery cells or entire batteries on these vehicles?
after experiencing this criminally high costing and premature problem, I am shocked that you are even considering getting another EV .....
Because, emissions. Or are we not allowed to bring them up anymore? There is a reason to go EV beyond home charging or even fuel price.
@@brushlessmotoring yeah we can bring up emissions by all means... like the 30% more carbon output required just to make an EV as opposed to an ICE vehicle.... then we have all the diesel and chemicals from the mining processes to get materials for the battery.. then all the emissions produced by shipping the stuff halfway around the globe... then the slave labour and body count from the workers and children that dig for the ore.... then of course we have to charge the battery by way of connecting it to a power plant which is far from zero emissions... then we have the noxious chemicals spilled into the atmosphere every time an EV battery goes into thermal runaway.... then we have the realisation that in order for an EV to simply pay back the amount of carbon used to make it, it would need to cover roughly 60-70 thousand miles before it starts to actually save the planet.... now most EV cars are bought on a 3 year lease basis so they don't ever make it to 70k before they trade up for a new one and a new 30% extra carbon cost.... and if your in that group that does keep one past 70k, you then run the risk of a 10 grand bill for another polluting battery replacement .... im not seeing a solution here
@@xl_wraith_lx5595 I fully expected that response, Rupert M says thanks for regurgitating it all so faithfully, anecdotes not data, whataboutisms and selective outrage, all to misdirect, distract, and most importantly delay, while ignoring the full lifecycle, not just the tailpipe, of petrol / gasoline / diesel.
Perfect. Chef's kiss!
Artisanal
@@xl_wraith_lx5595 You tube screwed up the rest of my reply.
Cobalt is not used in all EVs, and artisanal mining goes away when Cobalt is mined at scale rather than from the tailings of a copper mine. Cobalt is also used in refining Oil and has been for decades without a peep out of anyone - this is a perfect example of selective outrage.
Most of the child labour abuse images you see from the DRC are actually Tantalum mining for mobile phone radios, again, falsely attributed to EVs for clicks and outrage.
I'm not denying there are not supply chain issues, but the idea they are unique to EVs is ridiculous, they need to be solved, but thats true for chocolate, clothing and most definitely Oil and Gas.
@xl_wraith_lx5595 wouldn't it be great if we could wind the clock back a couple of years when ICE owners didn't express faux concern about the environment, and nobody really gave a fuck about what others drove . . .
Damm , well happy new year mate , hang on isn’t there an 8 year warranties on the Nissan pack if below 100k, but I would still think of the cleverly route 40kwh or junk it and go buzz long wheel due later route , but do you still need it with 7 seats since your boy has the Zoe and can take a passenger if going out as a family in two cars, wouldn’t an mg 4 long range suite you now
After following your channel for a long time and it helped me choose an e-nv200 and listening to this video I would recommend you get it diagnosed by a HEVRA garage and have the faulty packs replaced. Unless you need more range from it then you would look at a 40KWh or replace vehicle.
40 certainly tempting, especially if the 24kwh needs dropping out anyhow…might as well fit a 40….if only the price was reasonable!!
@@IanSampsonRLO I’ve seen them online for 5,750.00GBP at EV Breakers. Delivery to say Cleevely EV and fitting then sell the 24kWh pack either as whole or individual packs perhaps.
Sorry to hear about the ENV200! Hope all else is good with the family Amy the kids and not forgetting Bruce!
I'v seen a video of battery replacement from a used car, it's not too difficult. The model is well selled, perhaps it's possible to find a broken down car with a good battery...and how is the Honda e ?
Good luck.
What was the guarantee for the battery?
Thought the battery had a 8 year 100000 mile warranty? Or am I missing something
Ian, sorry to hear about this. Did your van not come with the usual 8 year battery warranty?
24kwh comes with 5 year, 60,000 mile warranty
Thanks for your honesty. Very informative video. I don’t see me buying an EV.
Thanks for watching!
Love my EV AND WILL never go back back
Have you checked your warranty to see how long the battery is covered for? I have read it’s an eight year warranty on the battery… not wanting to get your hopes up but it’s worth checking anyway. 🏴
8 years only applies to 30 kwhr onwards, his isn't that. his guarantee period is over and they would only repair individual cells to bring the battery back up to 9 battery bars out of 12 anyway ( ' at their discretion ' ).
How dreadful. How will you and Sophie and the kids Molly and Edward now pick up the Tofu at Waitrose.
Klaus and Charlie are very pleased.
Hi Ian have you looked at the citroen e berlingo vauxhall combo etc they are smaller but still have 7 seats
Maybe you can buy a crashed 30kw leaf cheaper which the battery is in good condition. But do you still need a big car for the older family?
How is your Zoe going? if I recall you bought it around the same time as the Env200. I am very concerned with your story, the assumption that 3rd party suppliers would make battery repair/upgrade easy as time goes on is obviously not going to happen. Maybe the 'right to repair' movement would help, but no time soon. I have recently bought a two year old Kia Soul (2021), it's battery is under warranty another 5 years but I hope to keep the car longer than that.
Sincerely hope you find a solution, lack of garages that can fix these is a worry for the long term. Watched a YT channel this week where insurance had written off Tesla Model S, non structural accident damage but couldn’t find the parts to repair. Insurance company had it for 6 months and have now offered what it is worth now, rather than 6 months ago.
I saw that. Plus it already had a replacement battery & drive train. Still off to the landfill ...... 😮
What was the outcome..? Did you get sorted… 🤔
My car Is 29 years old, starts first time, basic servicing, 2 cam-belts, no rust to talk of, cost me just £600, 8 years ago... yep, stay with this one..❤❤
What does the leaf spy pro say?
85 miles which never actually means that, night time,cold weather and then the cost of charging at home (not actually cheap, public charging very expensive and now it's dead not very environmentally friendly. Let's not forget how batteries are made, pitiful environmentally. I made a trip yesterday to take my daughter back to Uni, not far round trip of 250 miles, can you imagine how long that takes with an 80 mile range
Sad start for the new year for you.
Im in Australia and have been looking at a used ev's for years but still cant justify the sort range on the cheaper models, the only cars that are sub $30k aud are models with no more than 200km range, hopefully with the influx of cheaper new models like the MG's and the BYD's the 300+ km range cars will finally become affordable on the used market! Anyway hope you have a good new year and find a solution to the car.
If you can get a latest generation 40kW replacement installed under 10k, it my be worth it. Where can you get another EV with a 230+ range for under 10k?
A little concerning as you often hear that this hardly ever happens from other EV channels hence the long warranties. Surely those good cells are still worth a lot and you could get money for the pack even broken ? Thanks for the update.
I have a Nissan leaf 30kwhr of 7 3/4 years age and 39k miles on the clock with 33% degradation and 4 battery bars lost. I have read the Nissan guarantee of 8 years or 100000 miles. It only guarantees 9 battery bars capacity and therefore my car would only be brought up from 8 bars to 9 bars in any repair of individual cells, not the whole battery. Also there is a line in the guarantee that says ' at their discretion ' which means there is no guarantee of any repair at all, if they just say no. I have heard also that any Nissan garage expects you to pay for an expensive battery check, by them, at your expense before any work would be considered, along with you having religiously taken your car every preceeding year presumably for a service, which EV's don't really need and be ripped off on an annual basis. I have learned my lesson and as they say fool me once blame you, fool me twice blame me, hence this EV experiment ( and Nissan cars in general ) will be put down to experience and never will be repeated, so they take some damage as i have with the EV, that i bought from them, that was just not fit for purpose.
@@stevezodiac491Yes battery degradation in 30kwh nissans is disappointing I'm in similar boat to you. But for me car still meets my needs of daily commuter car. Never cars have better bigger batteries that will degrade less and last longer.
Wow thats shocking! Feel for you. Might have paid for itself but the cost to replace or repair is extreme compared to an ICE car not to mention the extra time its taken. @TheMacMaster @GeoffBuysCars just shows your not wrong about EV's.
'95 Ford F150. '96 Geo Metro. Run just fine. I have no plans of getting an overly expensive unreliable new vehicle.
Thanks for your honesty.
I would have waited until you get leafspy before making the video Ian, it might be that it's only 1 or 2 cells that need replacing, cleevely used to do this for under 2 grand, speak to James directly on James and Kate's UA-cam channel, it's not a massive job to swap out a few cells, they have a video on their channel where they do just that, it's certainly not scrap either, for some context my bosses jaguar petrol car has just slipped out of warranty and his engine blew just before Xmas, £45K to replace the engine, nobody claimed electric cars would never go wrong, there are risks in any purchase petrol, diesel or electric, I know loads of people with ten year old leafs that are still going well and are just used as cheap road tax free runabouts that have not seen a spanner or any service charges since new. Speak to James directly and do an update video.
Your experience is exactly why i never pulled the trigger on buying a used ENV200 even with the modest range. I don't trust the early technology from Nissan so its not worth the risk.
Most of the cells are probably fine the key is getting the bad ones replaced at a reasonable cost.
Battery cell costs have gone down BUT labour rates haven't!
Thanksks for updating us very honest im sure cleavley could swap out cells but a real pain for you and gamble this will be alot more common problem in 10 years i guess and yes you had the best time to have electric with free charging etc but now its gone crazy such a shame. i delayed to long missed the boat lol
I like that he is honest about the pros and cons, too many cons for me.
It's a government backed con .....😮
Not the best start to 2024. A few people have mentioned the warranty, this not an option?
From the nissan website:
“24 KWH LEAF : If the battery capacity level gauge of your 24 kWh Nissan Electric
Vehicle falls below 9 bars (out of 12 bars) within 60,000 miles or the first 5 years of
the vehicle’s life (whichever comes first), Nissan will repair or replace the damaged
battery components free of charge to bring the capacity up to 9 bars.”
www.nissan.co.uk/content/dam/Nissan/gb/vehicles/leaf/product_code/1_carryover/owner_benefits/EV%20Customer%20Promise%20T%26C%27s%2005.02.18.pdf
Happy new year 😄👍🌹
HI. I Thought Nissan gave a 8 year warranty or 100k miles warranty whatever came first.
From the nissan website:
“24 KWH LEAF : If the battery capacity level gauge of your 24 kWh Nissan Electric
Vehicle falls below 9 bars (out of 12 bars) within 60,000 miles or the first 5 years of
the vehicle’s life (whichever comes first), Nissan will repair or replace the damaged
battery components free of charge to bring the capacity up to 9 bars.”
www.nissan.co.uk/content/dam/Nissan/gb/vehicles/leaf/product_code/1_carryover/owner_benefits/EV%20Customer%20Promise%20T%26C%27s%2005.02.18.pdf
Bad luck, Ian. Really hope you can identify a fairly inexpensive ‘fix’. (It does seem pretty unbelievable that there aren’t more after-market refurbishes / battery gurus out there, given that EVs have been on our roads for quite a few years now. )
Looking back, would the nv200 diesel have been a better purchase? Happy New Year.
Any chance of a Nissan warranty? I thought it was 8 years battery warranty?
Sadly, no. From the nissan website;
“24 KWH LEAF : If the battery capacity level gauge of your 24 kWh Nissan Electric
Vehicle falls below 9 bars (out of 12 bars) within 60,000 miles or the first 5 years of
the vehicle’s life (whichever comes first), Nissan will repair or replace the damaged
battery components free of charge to bring the capacity up to 9 bars.”
www.nissan.co.uk/content/dam/Nissan/gb/vehicles/leaf/product_code/1_carryover/owner_benefits/EV%20Customer%20Promise%20T%26C%27s%2005.02.18.pdf
A long slow degradation suggests you need a replacement battery but a swift fall surely hints at a fault, probably one or two cells. I would look at Leafspy before taking any major action.
I thought the battery warranty was 8 years? - did you not say its 6.5 years old?
Ex post office van is about 3000. Fully serviced 260 insurance a year.
If you got 10 years out of a vehicle it isnt bad really. Not a lot of vehicles these days last a long time like the older cars did / do. My 21 year old ute runs just fine with its original 6 cylinder motor.
But to get less than 90k miles from a vehicle you paid big money for, is an absolute joke. Youd of been better off getting a cheap golf or something economical on fuel, run that for 100k miles and whack a reconditioned motor in if needed. And youd still be ahead.
If you ignore the emissions, yes. Seems we can't talk about why we are switching to EVs anymore, we just have to compare them as vehicles, like for like, and ignore the tailpipe difference.
@@brushlessmotoringBecause if we pay enough taxes we can save the planet for the billionaire class. They need more jets and yachts and you need to stop having cheap abundant energy. Slave class doesn’t deserve such luxuries.
Thanks Ian for sharing. Lots of useful insight. I can't help wondering, if the car's paid for itself compared to an ICE vehicle then you're ahead, plus you might still be able to sell it for 2K, bonus.
He said it had. Not many "my diesel can do 700 mies on a tank" aficionados can claim that. Nor do they mention how many £'000s of diesel they have put in it. I wonder why.
@@oneeyedgirl617 I could be wrong, but I think Ian isn't right in saying the car has paid for itself. The car cost around 17.5K in 2017 and he states the amount of diesel for the 86,000 miles would have been around 10K, add back the cost of electricity and the savings are more in the 2.5-4K range, which is not 17.5K, although I don't know what other savings Ian may have been talking about. I don't think the savings would even cover the higher price tag of the EV over the diesel model. In addition, the diesel model would have a higher residual value and could last for many years to come. Interesting I did the calculations and found the price of electricity increased faster in the UK than diesel since 2017, 59% for electricity compared to 23% for diesel which also reduced the potential savings.
@kelvineldridge I don't know what ICE car he is basing his savings on. I use my Fiat diesel, which I traded in for my 30kwh Leaf. I have diesel for me at £1.50 a litre, so 86,000 miles @ 50mpg would be £11200. There is no way he has spent £6k - £7.5k on electricity! My total spend for 12k miles over the last 2 years on electricity has been approx £320. He would have the same opportunities as me, such as free charging at supermarkets, and solar. And his solar array is bigger than mine. You forgot servicing and road tax. Main dealer servicing at Nissan currently is £159 and £209, minor and major, so approx £186 a year. My Fiat was a lot more than that. Tax would be £240 for 8 years. I'm saying it's possible. If his car had a healthy battery, with it's residual value, ( they seem to be holding up quite well compared to a Leaf) I would feel confident he has got his original purchase price back. Only he will know for sure.
@kelvineldridge 86,000 miles @ 4 miles per kwh = 21500 kwh. Octopus have had tariffs at 5p per kwh, 7.5p per kwh, 9p per kwh, and briefly 12p. 21,500 @ 7.5p is £1612. Then take off solar panels and possible free charging off that figure.
@@oneeyedgirl617 thanks for the info.
Might be just one or two bad cells that can be replaced ... very unlikely that the battery has an overall problem after such little time and mileage, battery should be good for at least 150.000 miles on old e-NV200 as to my knowledge they have (different as the leaf) a thermal managment. So i guess it is only a minor repair to replace on or a few bad cells.
6.5 years, where's the 8yr/160,000km powertrain warranty?
Also, IIRC Llewellyn paid a lot less than €10k to have that place in Amsterdam (New Electric?) upgrade his 2011 Leaf to 40 kWh. In any case, the swap kit for smaller batteries is just €700 if you can find yourself a wrecked Leaf or e-NV200
From the nissan website:
“24 KWH LEAF : If the battery capacity level gauge of your 24 kWh Nissan Electric
Vehicle falls below 9 bars (out of 12 bars) within 60,000 miles or the first 5 years of
the vehicle’s life (whichever comes first), Nissan will repair or replace the damaged
battery components free of charge to bring the capacity up to 9 bars.”
www.nissan.co.uk/content/dam/Nissan/gb/vehicles/leaf/product_code/1_carryover/owner_benefits/EV%20Customer%20Promise%20T%26C%27s%2005.02.18.pdf
@@IanSampsonRLO Ah, the benefits of living in California where the 8 year/100,000 mi was required by law. Still, look at having the swap kit with a low-mileage battery installed. The “small” battery means “40kWh or less “. I recognize that you have limited space where you live to do it yourself.
Happy New Year in any case! 🥳🎉🥂
Hi Ian, I have been following your EV story from the days of the Leaf. In this video you have not mentioned the Nissan option of getting it repaired under warranty. It is 8 years 100,000 mile warranty so you should be covered. They will probably replaced the defective cells only rather give you a replacement pack. This should give you more time to look for a suitable replacement vehicle.
The 8 year warranty only came in at the time of the 30 kwhr, which his isn't. In the guarantee, it says 'at their discretion ', degraded batteries will be reinstated to 9 bars only. Ian is out of the guarantee period for his car.
Surely the battery is still under warranty?
From the nissan website:
“24 KWH LEAF : If the battery capacity level gauge of your 24 kWh Nissan Electric
Vehicle falls below 9 bars (out of 12 bars) within 60,000 miles or the first 5 years of
the vehicle’s life (whichever comes first), Nissan will repair or replace the damaged
battery components free of charge to bring the capacity up to 9 bars.”
www.nissan.co.uk/content/dam/Nissan/gb/vehicles/leaf/product_code/1_carryover/owner_benefits/EV%20Customer%20Promise%20T%26C%27s%2005.02.18.pdf
It feels really wrong to like this video. :(
Hopefully LeafSpy will be able to pinpoint the problem and you can get it repaired at a reasonable price.
Good luck.
What are you going to do with the old battery . Are you going to recycle it yourself. Or just let some car dealership put it in landfill to pollute the groundwater
Off to land fill.......😂
jeez ... this is not what happens with several thousand quids's worth of battery material, it gets recycled at the scrap yard and funnelled into the right channels - it's a Daily Mail style myth that it gets thrown into landfill, utter nonsense, but if you are doing that with your battery devices please stop and take them to a proper recycling facility.
I've never known a dealership with a landfill site.
@@speedbird073 . I don't have a landfill site. But my rubbish still gets there. No one recycles EV batteries. It is far too expensive.
Sad news. I started following you about 8 years ago. I had gotten a used high mileage 2011 LEAF that was resprayed after a minor wreck. I got it in a trade honestly as a joke. I thought it would be terrible and my track buddies would get a laugh out of it but that little car won me over. Handed down to a young relative it is still on the road today, albeit on its 3rd battery. Two replaced under warranty and the third was recently replaced after the warranty due to a recall. Here in the US the LEAF battery is warranted for 100k miles. It might be worth having Nissan check it out and see if you get lucky.
But it was your videos way back then that taught me the ins and outs of living with an EV. I was hooked by the sense of adventure and trying to squeeze the very most out of that vehicle. after the LEAF I wanted a Tesla but had a bad experience with their showroom staff, so I bought a Chevrolet Volt (Ampera to you?). My wife now drives that and I got one of the early Lucid Air GTs. It is a wonderful car that has let me tour around the US with ease compared to the old days. Without your videos back in those early days I doubt that I would be the EV junkie that I am today. Thank you for taking me with you on that journey. I hope you are not forced back to diesel.
yeah that sounds very environmentally friendly what a joke
these are throwaway cars when are people going to learn?
@@funnycatvideos5490 Getting trolled on New Year's Day by somebody who posts cat videos. That's a first. You must have an interesting and somewhat conflicted inner life.
Sad indeed. Hope u can fix it for fine price, and it lasts much longer next time.
What about the manufacturers guarantee? 8year period? Good luck
There are some new diesels that will put a smile back on your face.
😂😂
Nissan’s early battery technology and lack of active BMS was ok at the time, but it no longer is. Their prices definitely do not encourage battery replacement. This isn’t exactly news. They tried to fix these issues with the Ariya, but if you can’t afford a battery replacement on an ENV or a Leaf, you sure as heck can’t afford to buy an Ariya. My 2016 Leaf 1.0 is still going strong, yes there is battery degradation, I went from a 30kWh to about a 24kWh battery. I did 100% AC charging only so far, using the type-2 port. I’m going to slowly look for a replacement at some point, haven’t decided yet, but it will be an EV.
Have you tried rubbing your battery? Works for the telly remote.
You are a clever fella. Doing your own battery swap or repairing the downed cells would make great content.
It is a massive shame as you put money into it, and expect to be able to sell it on and maybe even completely break even/come into profit, but if it dies in your ownership, you're pretty much scuppered and any savings is destroyed.
My Leaf is a 30kWh and is a 2016 with just shy of 56k miles. Still upwards of 100 miles in Summer with 11 bars so I just think you hit a bit of bad luck :(
Hope in the new year you manage to get a fix for the cells damaged.
Was it mostly slow charged?
Bahaha you've obviously not looked at secondhand ev prices. Anyone buying a secondhand ev is a moron for this exact reason. Getting stuck needing a battery replacement.
@@WiseGuy02 Second hand is the ideal time to buy an EV. Otherwise far too expensive.
6+ years is pretty good going! It may be time to switch to a hybrid or ICE vehicle until battery technology improves.