This was a very interesting, informative and much needed delving into the topic of China's restrictive content policies. We in the U.S. hope that it will prove to be a phase that had unsuccessful results and the restrictions start to relax over time. Thank you, Jimmy, for sharing it with your viewers.
Addicted was not only banned, but the main 2 actors were banned from appearing together in public for 8 years because of the uproar it created when they went on variety shows together(which also got banned from airing). Also some of the individual works of the actors were postponed or cut for atleast 2 years
Can I ask, how come Addicted is allowed to be shown on IQIYI? I was looking it up and saw it’s on there. Is it only available there outside of China? I’m curious how the laws work re: shows that were previously banned
You are correct that BL started as mostly media written BY women FOR women, but that's been changing in the past few years, more and more queer creators are taking the elm and creating their own work, and in turn, more people from the LGBT community are tunning in to watch.
Right, and there is an inherent link between cishet women and the lgbt community in China, which doesn't exist in the West. Women are under extreme pressure to choose a husband there, because the gender ration is skewed. So every gay couple, relieves that pressure on the women by removing men from the dating pool. That's exactly why the gov't doesn't like it. They don't give a crap who fricks who and it's certainly not a religious proscription: but they do want women to get married and make more soldiers. Men not wanting women allows the women to be childless for longer. Hence, it's in the interest of cishet women to encourage gay men not to suck it up and be dutiful sons.
I think there is a huge misunderstanding about bl's appeal to straight women, at least for a percentage of that population. Consider for a moment, if you can, that many women are tired of, and often full of tightly-controlled anger about the way society and men treat them. Being forced into jobs with low pay and no control, husbands who make decisions without consultation or respect, and social pressures to labour endlessly to benefit male family members. Most women put up with at least some if not all of these. And so watching traditional romances where women do these things with the appearance of happiness is its own form of propaganda and offers very little entertainment; more like having your nose rubbed in it even more. BL love stories don't suffer story lines drenched in issues of patriarchy and misogyny so they are absolutely a breathe of fresh air and a type of love story that can feel more genuine. The fact that they have good-looking actors is a cherry on top but not the main point. China's insistance on "hero"-type masculinity might make politicians feel good about themselves but I suspect it only fuels female irritation with all men and I wouldn't be surprised if accelerates the downwards birth rate. I'm not saying that women don't love and appreciate the men in their lives but it might only be for a few hours on certain days, tbh.
It's kinda sad when you realise that Chinese BL author's understand what women want better than their government. Cos who could ever enjoy a gentleman that knows how to speak nicely to their love interest? 😑
Sing it, sister. I also find in BL that since both leads are men, they have immediate respect from filmmakers. Characters each have their own journeys and desires, and the narrative rarely requests that one compromise them. Female Characters are not often seen holding up their principles, or having goals outside of romance that aren't abandoned to facilitate the romance. Yeah, the boys are cute, but you can't just throw a hot boy into something and think that makes it a success. There's something to be said for the emotional availability and honesty that BL males give each other that you don't see in Het stuff because women are not fundamentally respected and trusted as equals. I also don't have to watch a show, count the red flags and know that probably once they marry there will be some domestic abuse which one party will be unlikely to escape from. She ain't gonna be making cosmetics any more; the's going to be a baby farm. As @AllysonLyne says, you're rubbing our faces in a situation we know to be miserable and asking us why we like seeing something that doesn't have the looming shadow of domestic labor and abandonment of identity.
It’s sad, but even authors and fans sometimes talk about how a big attractive of BL or even other forbidden romances (older woman younger man, queer, robot, fantasy) is that you can actually have a romance and character relationship WITHOUT our normal gender norms and abuses. Less of those harmful social norms or expectations or rules that straight couples experience or inflict on each other. They actually get to like each other as people, not as gender roles. To an extent, they still often have tropes and Dom/Sub expectations. It could also be that women are taught to not be sexual and that cultural norm affects them even in private, so enjoying BL is easier than GL.
"accelerated the birth rate downward spiral". . . Yup exactly. And those "shoot ' em up " movies nobody even watches those anymore... That's so 90's And now people are being hip to like what violence does to their kids and themselves and stuff so wow the world has really changed and they are so archaic.
China having BL dramas really would be unique because of its rich and beautiful culture. Especially their Xanxia genre as seen with the Untamed. It really is a missed opportunity.
I'm happy to see you mention that BL is meant to be a space for figuring out sexuality. Mainstream romances are enjoyable in their own way, but suffer from the assumption everyone experiences love and sex the same way.
I think an important reason for popularity of BL among women (straight or otherwise) is gender inequality. Two men in main roles provide an escape from gender issues for women - when in het romance it's often (not always!) a choice between unrealistic or triggering. And if we want a historical romance it's a whole other problem: 3/4 of the plot are going to be dedicated to fighting patriarchy, or worse - not fighting it.
I would tend to agree however there seem to be even more rigid power dynamics in BL than in hetero romance, with gong and so/shou etc and the characteristics forced onto character to abide by those roles
@@yoeulgong/shou are just top/bottoms. people need variety so people want more versatility but people saying the gong/shou is just rigid roles makes me remember people saying those are het roles and that'e amusing. people's preference in who tops or bottoms is not a power dynamic.
@@jartalol31 I dont think theyr mean just preferences in bed, they usually refer to pursuer/pursued, power dynamic in terms of gong being generally more successful or rich, whose pov is the main focus (the "shou"). And usually moving away from these ideas is more subversion of these tropes than anything IMO
@@yoeul I see what you mean, and there certainly exist BLs (and whole subgenres :D) with more rigid roles (and they definitely stand at the genre's origins), but for the most part I think (and obviously it's just my impression) that in modern BL it's not so much that roles are more rigid, as they are more noticable. What can seem like a power imbalance between two men, looks "normal" for a man and a woman.
I scrolled down to find this comment. Of course they will not blame themself, they are the power; the ultimate rule. They needed to find a source to blame and they did.
Word of honor was my portal to BL... Incapable of choosing best between WOH and TU... Banning Cininese BL has the effect of.... prefering Korean, Taiwanese, Thai... and Japanese bl... If China doesnt want to release domestically the long-awaited dramas, like the Story of the Bat, Immortality, Winner is King, and gardians of west... Why not release them internationally ? Export it as a weapon... if they really think it saps society 🙂 ( Having four children... I really don't think enjoying BL has had much negative effect...)
Because those series started filming before the ban and the productions had applied for a Chinese release permit. Once you apply for your movie or series to be shown in China, regardless of what happens in the future with the production or industry, you're locked in. China "owns" The viewing rights to the production indefinitely. While international viewing does bring popularity, true money is found in airing in China and the resulting product promotions, actor events and so on. That's why productions apply for Chinese airing. Now, if these series hadn't applied for Chinese distribution, they could shop their series for outside China only viewing. And platforms like IQIYI, Netflix, etc would jump at airing these productions.
They should realise bl Drama in international platforms I am waiting badly for Immortality and Internal faith drama The Untamed i watch more than 6 to 7 time but I can't get over this masterpiece ❤😢😢😢
Nothing is going to change until the Chinese government does..... I feel terrible for the community in China having to be under the rule of cowardly rulers who don't realize they would look much stronger if they were more accepting. They look insanely weak with their current policies
I've thought the same thing. China could be a powerhouse with its BL stories. They are so engaging. The Untamed got me into Cdramas. I think if they want to blame something for the decrease in population, blame work culture. It's crazy. Thanks for this. I really do wish China would just let BL go all out. It could be amazing what we get.
@@davfb8622 That makes zero sense. Communism and world super powers are at fault. Inflation has nothing to do with this. The government is afraid of the power women feel watching this. Simple.
@@aaroncarson1770 I mean the entire reason why straight women like BL is quite complicated, like for some it's like if you like chocolates so two chocolates are better and for some it's more like a fantasy so that's why so many toxic relationship are often seen in BL but it is a homosexual relationships in the end, so according to them it would promote homosexual relationships in the end
@@dramaanalyst1745 They could see it like that, but they could also see it as promoting attraction. Speaking for myself, it's wonderful to see two men being attracted to each other, and the wonderful thing about BL is that it's often portrayed outside of a political context, and the attraction is as much a revelation to the characters as an experience, so the intensity is compounded by the sense of the unknown. I don't know what point I'm making exactly. Thanks for answering me. I miss Chinese BL. Addicted was mind blowing when I saw it. I've just come off bingeing White Cat Legend, which did have the magic, even though the creators coloured inside the lines. I have a theory that magic and homosexuality, or just sexual liberation, when depicted in media is quite healthy for the culture, and it seems to be the thing the Chinese government is objecting to, and the really sad thing is that they make content in this genre so well. Vietnamese BL is quite good, but I might actually put Chinese BL at the top of the chart.
@@dramaanalyst1745I've till now not found the answer why i like bl, i just like it, the 1st time i read bl i was just drawn to it, like a north pole of a magnet to a south pole, till then I've been addicted to bl
@@kerorikun8910 I just love romances. BL is fun because it tells a different romance than HET. A genre that expands my reading options but still gives me romance? Yes, please.
From the beginning of time whether we believe it or not there has always been samesex relationships/love/sex… this can be found in almost every culture although most are covert in religious cultures
Well done. A well thought out argument. It's sad that China is doing this, apart from missing out on all that revenue and making people interested in China its culture and history it's also pushing toxic masculinity which is a big problem in other countries.
Chinese danmei novels have a huge fandom. It is being published in different languages. Danmei subreddit in reddit has many straight male members too. Because most danmei has a decent plot ,not only romance. Romance between 2 men is something that happens in the background during zombie siege, horror survival game, murder mystery, ancient political struggle between nations, war against zergs, mecha fight or modern grueling office work. All those Chinese bl series are based on popular danmei novels. It is sad that we can't watch any live action adaptations but gladly novels are hard to control. Thousands of them are being written every day,delete one today and 1000 new books would appear the next day. They have over billion people, number of danmei novel writers are crazy! I think every young Chinese female tries to write one in their lifetime or smth. And many are being translated by various fan translators.
Because a decrease in the birth of women cannot lead to men seeking sexual release with each other. And, of course, long working hours always leads to people seeking to have lots of children.
@@sherrygadberryturner9527 I don't remember who said it off hand, but someone said Life is a comedy to those who think and a tragedy for those who feel. And, I think that there is plenty of room to disagree with him.
Appreciate this video, but I join several other commenters by saying they BL is by straight women for women is not the full story. Currently, the genre is developed by men and women and for many of us same-sex attracted people, it is a chance to see romance and friendship between 2 guys in a way that we were robbed of by heteronormative society.
yeah ive always hated the idea of bl only being made for straight women. not only does it exclude and invalidate fans who are not this demographic, but i feel it also makes others not want to give bl a try because of this stereotype. and as an lgbtq+ fan myself im just here to watch gay people be cute together like wtf🥲
@@kalkxxmaybe because 💯 percent of BL are written by women and 99 percent of people who read BL are women, it’s from a woman’s fantasy, that’s why BL are so different from gay novels
It started for straight women by straight women and that's still a big part of the market, least in Japan where it originates. Glad it's spreading out tho
Thanks for covering this topic! Chinese BL gains a lot viewership not only because of the bromance, but well-developed, deep, and innovative plotlines which has been lacking in other recent Chinese dramas. Therefore, although most of the viewers are straight female, straight male audience also watch too and it did not change their sexuality as suggested by Chinese censorship board haha. At the time of the ban of BL in China, there was a multitude of problems resulted from this new genre: male actors deemed not “masculine” enough, toxic fandom fights, and the Chinese entertainment industry seeing this genre as quick money beginning to mass produce lower quality content. These type of problems is commonly seen in any untapped new market: challenging traditional views, chaos, and industries using it for financial gains. I think China could have use this as an opportunity to educate its netizens of the quality of a man doesn’t only involve brute force, instead inner strength like loyalty, braveness, and responsibility. Instead, they just opt for a more easy route by banning the whole genre. Their attitude directly reflect the toxic masculinity and homophobia in the Chinese society, which unfortunately will not change for the better in the near future. The younger generation of Chinese do seem to be more accepting of new genres, maybe there’s a chance of seeing the unaired Chinese BL once the younger people get into the censorship board haha.
The point is watching bl will never make an entire population homosexual. Sexuality is a preference. It simply depicts that Chinese government has no knowledge about the topic if gender and Sexuality. Homosexuality has been prevailed in our society for a long time its proven. Scientists have already said its not an illness. Even in China in ancient time men preferred to wear make up and now they are saying these are sissy men !!!!how ridiculous!!!!!
I have waited for Eternal Love, a bl live action of Heaven Official’s blessing which is another work from MXTX the author of The Untamed, and Immortality(2ha) for years now but i really hate how due to chinese censorships I can’t watch it. I live in an incredibly patriarchal household as the eldest daughter and im also bi so bls provide me with sense of security and comfort.
Whenever I watch such a video, I'm always confused that the western media treats BL as a super niche genre existing only in Asia. Like they literally ignore slash fiction culture in their own countries... (and I'm also a huge fan of original slashfic.)
Western Gay cinema and BLs are different things. They have different histories, demographics and tropes. Gay culture may share elements across the world, but its also unique to each place. It's not a problem to respect and recognise that
I discovered BLs last week. I'm still kind of perplexed by why I love it so much as a straight female. I've never been interested in gay relationship storylines. In fact, almost anything romantic, unless it's heavy on comedy, turns me off (like 'The Notebook'). As one woman viewer put it, with no female main lead, we women can detach and stop comparing ourselves with the characters. I also like the fact that many of the women in BL series are nice and just normal, not catty or whiny. With the exception of all but one Korean actor, I don't find the actors appealing for me. I think they are very good looking, but only one Korean actor makes my knees weak. The rest are just good looking guys that I enjoy watching. I do admit I like the ones where there is a more dominant male and a more docile one (sexy vs. hot). Overall, I get the sense of being in love without the bother of a personal relationship, lol. As long as I get the same feels, I'm all good!
You have definitely clarified a question I have had in my mind for some time, which is: Why would an advanced and sophisticated culture like that of China be so hostile to bl, homosexuality, androgyny, etc. Tying it to the dramatically dropping birthrate (only 10 million in one year!), the legitimate demographic and highly paranoid national security (the CIA is behind it all!) concerns definitely add a different dimension and paint a clearer picture of whence this hostility and its ensuing policies derive and why it has been so tenacious and persistent in its endurance despite most advanced cultures going in the exact opposite direction (Thailand's Parliament approving same-sex marriage last week, for example). So I thank you wholeheartedly for this erudite and illuminating video! 😊
hostility to homosexuality is relatively modern thing in China as it is in Japan, for most of their history it was tolerated and even accepted, (then influence of Western colonization) but when you have conservative governments with specific agendas, but what they should explore is why BL is so attractive to women and see that a less toxic masculinity is actually more appealing, notice that despite pressure against 'fresh young meat' you have the same actors still promoting fashion and makeup (maybe just removing the sparkling eyeshadow and earrings) and maybe getting a bit more 'roughed up' on screen.
It's unfortunate they don't allow explicit gay representation it feels like emotional blueballing because all the potential and chem a ship has you know it'll never amount to anything as cathartic like when a show gets canned on a cliff hanger.
Something I think is interesting is that from what I’ve heard from my fellow Chinese BL fans, it’s pretty sexist of the CCP to claim that BL would reduce men’s viability when from what I know, safer seeming traits that are often treated as “androgynous” and “feminine” are just more attractive than traits that make a potential husband seem more likely to be despondent and dangerous. But instead of acknowledging that some women may or may not prefer a man who’s caring over a man who’s buff, the CCP just says women are wrong for being attracted and men are wrong for being attractive conventionally speaking. Instead, focusing on a power fantasy and stoking homophobic rhetoric about “no babies person, no good person” to build up their own puppeteered population based on their own “masculine” controlling beauty standard. Just let women be happy, goshdanggit.
Some of the responses do reek of "how dare all these women prefer men who're nothing like me, and if they're allowed to do so how am I meant to get laid?"
oh, they do it in commercial way, look at sweet baby incident. they accused a married korean man never met a woman, for designing a female character that is to attractive to male gamers. too stupid and uncreative to appreciate art, how neat.
1.4 billion people live in China and not one gay person wow. I didn’t watch The Untamed. I keep thinking maybe I will one day, but it did allow me to do; was find out that there was an awesome actor in that show name WANG YIBO. That led me watch Hidden Blade, which I thought was absolutely fantastic and did show on the big screen in one of the smaller theatre in Vancouver BC. I don’t watch any of the big production Chinese films what I do watch are the Chinese detective stories which I find absolutely fascinating. They are so different from the western type of detective shows that are produced from the American television industry.
Give The Untamed a try it isa great show (first few episodes are rough but then it is amazing). Plus Wang Yibo’s new drama War of Faith is also amazing and captivating.
Under the Skin is one of my favorite detective/mystery stories! Also, Killer and Healer. Also, The Untamed is an extraordinary story-you should check it out!
I'd say give Untamed a try, but try to get through the first 11 eps, it gets better, Wang Yibo just grows by leaps and bounds in it, master of the understated performance, oh and Yibo has a new drama out now, Republican era like Hidden Blade called War of Faith.
I'm glad that India doesn't has BL for now like straight rom-com, India has seriously focused on LGBTQIA+ series or movie. BL is good to watch but it shows same sex is normal which is not in the real life, if people think to come out without thinking how abnormal it is to most people, they can be disowned. Slowly people are accepting real life same sex couples here so I hope we can accept homosexual people in majority ❤
One reason I watch BL dramas is not only for the romancee, its because I am an older woman, without brothers or sons. I have a daughter. For me these young actors are like sons. I enjoy watching their school antics and falling in love. My daughter is not married. I haven't had a chance to feel that heart flutter when young love enjoys that kiss. The sex in BLs is so light and just cuddling and modest I just feel like a grand mum who accidentally steps into the room without harm being done. But I get that warm smiling feeling of witnessing young innocent love I think people in families feel when their young people start out in life. It's like any othet dramas. It gives a chance to see life you can not experience for yourself.
I loved ‘The Untamed’. I was thrilled to hear that more fantastic BL Wuxia/ XiaXia was in the works. I believe that the story told by ‘ The Untamed’ is, at its heart, a love story of epic proportions. Every bit as memorable and deserving of classic status as anything written by Jane Austen or The Brontë sisters, sublime in both its storytelling and authenticity of purpose. The result of this overwrought censorship is making the East appear weak and fearful of its own progress. China needs to look to it’s own extreme policies and dissolution of economic stability for the reasons behind its youth not feeling secure enough to want to raise a family.
well, The Untamed is itself fanfic of another Chinese IP, and once you see other series, you realize that it's a tropefest of other Chinese drama narratives, what many in the West find compelling is that it's not a Western way of storytelling, but it's not 'classic' or high lit at all. It suffers from having no strong female characters who move the narrative on their own, (the 2 that do exist, Jiang Yanli and Wen Qing had to be expanded greatly in the drama and even then only exist to bolster the story of the male protagonists, fridging, etc.) if you look at all of the author's works, they are for a Chinese audience and specifically break and twist well known genre tropes. If you want epic classic Chinese drama, you want to go to Nirvana in Fire.
@@KeiPalacetotally correct when writing a fantasy story a person should ignore all established tropes for the genre such as a magic system, supernatural creatures, and heroes. Also it is important to force a female character into having a central role, so you can save time by removing the focus from the core plot by making one of the men female for the sake propriety and appeasing claims of weak female cast. Of course as it is the Untamed is fantastic and I’d prefer they didn’t change storylines excessively for the sake of appeasing moral outrage. I also prefer to know that when I pick up a wuxia or xianxia story that there is a training method used to increase personal power or gain external abilities. It’s how you know what it is
Yes! Out of curiousity, do you mind me asking what your sexuality is? I'm a bi female but don't have any male friends who watch BLs... (If you aren't comfortable answering the question, no worries. 😊)
same, i'm a man and the majority of my male friends love BL too. my father started watching the untamed a couple years ago and he's now addicted to danmei/BL 😅
It is truly unfortunate because I love Chinese culture and Chinese animation but it just doesn't have the same influence as Japanese or American pop culture. I'm someone that believes some censorship is necessary for the stability of the populous, like every country has censorship for a reason. However I do notice that compared to Japan or Korea, China doesn't really care or support its soft power industries like film and animations which is truly unfortunate, the reason is partly culture, partly undeveloped industries and partly censorship. I believe it would be beneficial for China to relax its censorship on its media but I think it's not fair to disregard their media just because censorship exists. Lots of great Chinese films and games have reached the west recently, like Deepsea/Shenhai, Link Click and the upcoming Blackmyth Wukong. China just needs a little push in its soft power to get it rolling.
This video is so educational, insightful, and informational. (It can actually be the topic of a PhD dissertation.) Thank you for the effort and the wisdom that you share. However, you neglected to mention another very popular Chinese period "bromance" series aired after "The Untamed" (some would argue it's even more popular than "The Untamed") - "Word of Honor." What subsequently happened to one of the leading actors of "Word of Honor", Zhang Zhehan, can only be described as the worst nightmare that can happen to anyone in the entertainment industry. The state-controlled Chinese media embarked on a vicious concerted effort to demonize and tarnish the reputation of this young man whose popularity skyrocketed right after the airing of "Word of Honor" (where, ironically, he played the more masculine role than the other leading actor who hasn't suffered the same unfortunate fate as him). They dug up photos of him being a guest of his Japanese friend's wedding and visiting a Japanese shrine, and using those photos to label him as a traitor of the Chinese nation. This has completely destroyed the career of this young man which had taken him more than a decade to build. Today, no one even knows Zhang Zhehan's whereabouts. It is obvious what the state-controlled Chinese media and the Chinese Communist Party wanted to do - they wanted to his Zhang Zhehan as an example of what would happen to any actor or artist who does not follow the state ideology and policy of the so-called "masculinization" of male acting roles. There are many facets of the horror of Chinese Communism and authoritarianism. But what you shared with us here potently demonstrates one of those horrors that permeate throughout Chinese polity and society.
yes, Word of Honor certainly pushed the edges, and it's still popular in China as a way to make revenue through merching, even if the show itself (and it's lead actor) have been banned.
Thank you for your comment, I think it is very important to share this info to people who haven't heard about or seen Word of Honor as it had a huge impact on this topic :)
Zhang Zhehan was mixed up in a much more sinister plot, though. His career blossomed almost overnight and he gained several major endorsement deals and offers from production companies just months after Word of Honor was released and it made a lot of people in the industry feel very threatened. Smear campaigns like these usually happen in China when a star becomes too huge. The same thing happened to Xiao Zhan. Unfortunately for Zhehan, they found something that could destroy his career and they made sure he couldn't come back by systematically spreading misinformation and malicious rumors about him even long after he was cancelled. But he recently made a comeback and is doing quite well as a singer outside of China. He has had sold out concerts in other parts of Asia and even performed in Hong Kong a couple of months ago. I read somewhere that his lawyers found evidence of defamation that lead to a certain PR firm in China, so he hasn't quite given up yet. If you want to know more about what he's up to these days, he has an official Instagram you can check out.
@@erianiviel8871 Thank you for the update. Because of this video, I decided to re-watch "Word of Honor." It really is a fantastic series, even better than "The Untamed." The performance of Zhang Zhehan was simply outstanding. The chemistry between him and Gong Jun was amazing. I really hope whoever defamed him will be punished, and that he can regain his reputation. I followed his career a little, and I learned how hard he had worked to become what he was. But everything that he had worked so hard for just disappeared overnight - literally. This is one of the biggest problems with the Mainland Chinese netizen culture. Since it is heavily censored, Mainland Chinese netizens are especially easily affected and swayed by fake news and rumor. Moreover, it almost appears if they are actually happy to see any famous people, especially celebrities, to "fall from grace," regardless of whether the rumors that lead to such fall are true or not. So whenever any rumor starts, they will simply brainlessly and viciously add to it, hence this snowballing effect that can happen within days or even hours.
@@flyingzone356 I prefer Word of Honor to The Untamed myself. I ended up reading the novel version because of it and loved it, but the novel of The Untamed didn't interest me one bit. That's just me, though. MDZS is just not my cup of tea. I'm just not into this type of romance and I prefer WOH because of its wuxia elements and the banters between the two leads. They really chose the right actor for Zhou Zishu. Zhehan had the right look and acting chops for that role. Unfortunately, many people also didn't like him because he was competition. I have friends who are fans of the Untamed and they immediately believed these lies because of the rivalry between the two BL series. I don't doubt that some of them helped spread these rumors. I actually don't understand the rivalry at all. Why can't we just enjoy what we want? So some people love The Untamed, some don't. Personally, any BL series is better than no BL at all. As for Zhehan, he's now a musician and a filmmaker. I personally don't want him to go back to the toxic Chinese entertainment industry. He has more freedom to do what he wants now, so he's better off.
The thing about BLs for Gay men are three. 1) They often aren't about suffering and persecution and prejudice. Yes, that is the reality of Gay life, but after you have seen 12 or 20 dramas about coming out and homophobes, you don't need to see the 21st drama with the same theme. 2) These dramas occur in high school or college and for many Gays, especially older, that wasn't a possibility, though we tend to overlook some aspects. Like they kiss in the 10th episode and have sex in the 15th episode. 3) The nations don't have a pervading Christian culture. The religion there isn't really that concerned. They have their downsides in that in some cases they are just two women wearing male bodies. They tend to have the psychotic jealousy episode. I only tolerate one per series. If there is a second episode I stop watching. They are unrealistic regarding men and sex.
Maybe because BL are written by women, it’s from a female’s perspective and fantasy, it has nothing to do with reality,what do women know about being gay 😂
The key to lots of children is women who want to have children. It's way easier fir a woman to find a man to do the dirty with, than a man finding a woman, flirting with her and stay nice enough to want her to sleep with him and then stay nice long enough to want her to keep that baby. But is it really surprising that men who grew up in such a patriarchal world think the world revolves around them and what their fellow men do and think?
China suffers from low birth rates and faces demographic headwinds. I think these issues are entirely economic. The CCP refuses to acknowledge this because they are the primary beneficiary of the skewed wealth distribution. It's not BLs that are hindering Chinese fertility but an uncertain economic future and very high cost of raising children in Chinese urban environments. CCP censorious attitudes about BLs are not a problem since producers in Thailand, Japan, South Korea, Taiwan, Singapore, the Philippines and other nations are more than happy to satisfy market demand.
I still keep watching THE UNTAMED everyday.. I can't help myself to love that drama, I love the character of Weiying and Lanzhan, I love the actors of Xiao Zhan and Wang yibo.. I love them since 2019 until today... I can't move on... I have a huge love for them..
But on the Untamed, I had to be convinced to watch it, the first 11 eps are rough, then it gets compelling, for many in the West it's been a gateway drug, as we connect with the actors and then follow them onto other projects, such as Wang Yibo, (Lan Wangji) who has become one of China's biggest stars into historic dramas such as Luoyang and films such as the recent Hidden Blade (with Tony Leung) which did pretty well in the US, so the Untamed does have a lasting influence, even if BL has to hide a bit more (such as the recent Mysterious Lotus Casebook series where fans love to (relation)ship the three male leads.) despite the BL ban, this featured two of the main male leads in wedding tropes, even a night in a honeymoon suite wuxia style) BL lives on, it just lurks a bit more!
Yeah, Chinese soft powers don't do well internationally; and thus came TikTok. With people freaking out at the mere mention of their governments banning that damn app. I love the Untamed, loved the novel. But I generally dislike Chinese shows (I rarely watch them), 'cause I know everything you see and topics within it have to all be preapproved by the government, and you can just see celebrities being very careful not to say something that could get them in trouble. All I hear in all their programming is the same thing: 'Let's promote peace, love and unity'. 🙄
Great coverage on this topic. I had no idea about BL until I watched The Untamed. Immediately after, I became a BL fan. I know it is more tailor towards girls and not so much men but it still is nice to see men be bromance with other men. Thailand is known for BL dramas and Kinn Porsche is definitely one of my favorite, and they are going to try to legalize gay marriage. I think if the dramas are also allowing change to occur in society in a positive way, I think the government is very controlling in China and would never let dramas or actors change how things are in society. It’s a fear for government in China to have celebrities rule the country and their people worshipping these celebrities.
The first BL series that I watched is Addicted. From that point, I began to explore BL series from Thailand, Japan, South Korea, and Taiwan. After Addicted was banned, none of other Chinese BL series is worth watching, in my opinion. You know, because of the censorship. Those watered down version of BL into bromance are just too pathetic to watch. While the stories were interesting, but the repressed romance are just too appalling for me. Why forcing myself to watch those repressed second rate romance, when I can watch open romance scenes on other series from other countries?
@@cahidijoyoraharjo7833what your take on word of honor? While not too focus on the romance, you can tell clearly they not even trying to hide it, the both main characters love each other and care for each other.
Very interesting! it's true, the untamed got me interested in China and made me think about it differently than how it is portrayed in the media so it's a shame they closed that door. The reason people have less kids probably has more to do with living expenses and education, not pretty boys smiling at each other.
I'm a lesbian and I like BL because it's a way to see queer romance on screen in the format of asian dramas. GL is only starting to take hold in Thailand (thanks to GAP), and I'm so glad I finally have something I can relate to even more. But it's important to understand that many non-het people watch BL. It's not just made by straight women for straight women anymore. Are us queer people supposed to not want to watch people like us on screen or something? Are we supposed to only continue to watch het series because BL is for "straight women"? I think not.
@@RupsaBanik222 most often they do accept... But there's always that classmate who has to pinch you or else his itchiness won't come down.. That one person will tag you as pervert , gay(which is not actually offensive but yeah! In sarcastic way if someone calls you a dahlia it also becomes very hurtful ), weirdo etc
Do you know that they remade Addicted into Stay With Me? It was the version that the China government approve. No kissing, no hugging, nothing. Just some deep and long stares to each other. LMAO. So pathetic. Not to mention they made the ending bad, one of the main character had a fatal accident. And after that major cliff hanger, they announced that there won't be a next season. So in other words, that's how they portray the fate of gay people. Live in pain, end with untimely death. The Chinese government is toxic and appalling, just like their society.
I wonder how the Chinese government would react to a Bl like Kinnporsche where the leads are stereotypically masculine and are shooting guns half of the time 😅
Not only straight women watch BL....I have many many male straight friends who got into watching BL series from seeing our or their girlfriend's excitement and love for it ....they say it's more engaging and fun to watch something new that they never experienced.....and they also don't find that much kick from watching normal hetero relationship series as they are already living that life .....😅😅😅😅😅
I'm aroace and it's hard to pin down exactly why I like bl. it's most likely a mix of all the reasons in the video though in general i think i prefer there to be no women because I'm not a woman who experiences those feelings.
having two male characters removes the imbalance of power and you see a relationship of equals, that's why people are 'into' it, and if you don't care about female characters it's because you can't relate to their motivations as expressed by men (female tropes) I would suggest watching the drama Nirvana in Fire, where greatly developed female characters aren't' drawn by only romance, but rather political needs and a sense of justice, a general, a spy, a doctor are the main charas who stand on their own. The male lead is so very compelling (Hu Ge) and has so many friends around him, if you are into BL he can be shipped in many directions (and is)
I was ready to go all in on Chinese dramas after watching The Untamed. Word of Honor sealed it for me. I started watching non-BL Chinese dramas as well. And then something massively upsetting happened to one of the actors in Word of Honor and I didn't like that. There's been no justice yet and he's still wiped from the Chinese internet over something he didn't even do. I haven't watched a Chinese drama since.😞 Can't take a chance I'll get interested in something or someone and the drama or actors will disappear because one of the male actors didn't breath masculine enough... or someone took a photo of a female actress that has a building (which she never visited) off in the distance...or something else that's completely ridiculous. 😑
I think BL is just cute, is all But why do I actually watch it? I guess because the characters are not acting like macho men, saviour blah blah, lumberjack, blah blah. They're masculine, but they're also soft with each other, and it's nice. And there's no annoyingly weak assed female lead. Plus, the men look nice Edit: It's not even about s*x. I don't even like erotica (between any genders). Seems invasive. BL should just be cute stuff, really 😹
it is to the detriment of much BL that there are no female characters of note, even the author of the Untamed admits that in this novel she really should have worked on that more, and in her later book solved some of those problems.
I have to admit i love bl movies. Now that it is banned in china , Chinese movies are so boring that they put me to sleep literally. I mean I'm watching villain and the fairey and it is so childish. The main character is depressed cause his dad doesn't like his oh let's say flute so the dad kills his governess Then theain character discovers his dad fixed the flute and had it hidden away. And the main character is happy. But, what about the governess? I sleep a whole half an hour during this movie and I still haven't missed anything.
there is still BL in china, just more masculine facing characters and a focus on a group of three instead of a pair, which means fans ship threesomes instead, where there is a will there is a way! (Heroes, Mysterious Lotus Casebook, not to mention Lost Tomb/Daomu Biji series etc)
The Chinese government is honestly ridiculous atp, the government is trying to have a weird ‘traditional’ society is seems. Hope one day they can modernise and let people be who they are 🙏
Yo creo que China está perdiendo una gran oportunidad, yo después de leer novelas chinas BL me fascine por la cultura china y cualquier cosa que tenga que ver con China, que triste que el gobierno se cierre tanto a este tipo de temas, cuando puede sacarle tanto provecho.
I’m a lesbian so I am not attracted to men in general, but most of my friends are… and it’s so funny that the government thinks “traditional” masculinity will help the birth rate, when most of my girl friend are attracted to men who are soft, take care of their appearance, aren’t afraid to express their emotions and their personality. There’s a reason why so many women like K-pop idols lol this is what happens when old men think they know what young women (or men tbh) want. It’s happening in my own country too, it’s really is a shame.
Thank you for this video! I fell into the whirlpool that is The Untamed via its source text (Grandmaster of Demonic Cultivation) a few months ago, and haven't recovered since LOL. One thing I will mention is that although much of the romantic and sexually explicit scenes from the novels were discarded in the show, The Untamed actually still did a great job highlighting the queer subtext, pushing it as much as they could given the sorry state of the censorship regulations (both pertaining to portrayals of homosexuality and otherwise). I have been a lifelong fan of Korean pop culture, and am also familiar with anime/manga. But after becoming a fan of the lead actors of TU, I was just fascinated by how the nationalistic and patriotic messages in most mainstream Chinese media are really just... in your face. I would not accuse China as the only state that does this- I believe 20th century US cinema and the advent of television can serve as a good example here, in fact, although of course, I would say artists were able to fight for their expression and beliefs with a little more liberty, which in turn always allows for a better flourishing of culture. At this point, given how these Chinese censorship rules are only going to get stricter with time, I just wish these media with strong /strong/ propagandistic and/or nationalistic messages would at least be done... tastefully... Like there are many ways... Also! One misconception about BL is that it is written by "straight women" for the pleasure of "straight women," which has been debunked many times through research. It really discounts the queer potential of not just the source texts but also the fandoms too. Of course, it isn't uncommon in our society that "female" interests are more easily disregarded as trivial and of less worth/value, and it is interesting to think about how that might feed into the general perception of enjoyment of BL as dirty or even fetishistic of gay men. What one fails to account here is that, as you have mentioned, BL is a huge cultural phenomenon in East/Southeast Asia, and particularly in societies where non-cisheteronormative genders and sexualities are under much general scrutiny (although the younger generations are generally much more accepting). In this case, as you have stated, BL/Yaoi/Danmei/Slash becomes an avenue for "straight women" to explore their sexualities and genders freely- that fact that one can go on this journey of discovery in a communal space alone is a huge fortune for many of these people. Which is why, I believe that whole BL by "straight women" for "straight women" statement is very redundant, to some degree informed by Western queer practices, and fails to account for the cultural and political cultural nuances that makes BL the "phenomenon" that it is among the youth in Asia. Of course, one cannot be entirely ignorant of the occasional weird people who actually fetishize gay people through their exposure to MLM material, but to use this is a "gotcha" moment to drag BL as a genre and those who enjoy them is just terribly reductive. But I digress. Once again, thank you for this video!! (edited for grammatical clarity)
I don't see how the Wolf Warrior differs much from Marvel, but in the West with the conglomeration of media companies into just a handful of behemoths at Disney, we see repression of queer subtext, note what happened with the Captain America - Bucky narrative when Marvel was bought out by Disney, the underlying narrative of the most successful of their films - Captain America, The Winter Solider and Civil War - which was Cap finding and recovering his best friend was suddenly scrapped, at the demand of Disney honchos, to the point that in the last of the Avenger films Bucky didn't even fight beside Steve and a warped narrative was created to separate the two of them permanently. You couldn't have said 'no homo' any more clearly.
i would love a video essay like an hour long just about this~ 💓 it’s interesting and also i never heard anyone talk about bl and a soft power with that until now
They ignore a major reason of why birthday rates are low, i.e a rating of men to women. There is a slight higher rate of male to female, approximately 105:100.
You should watch if you haven't already the " Merciless" it is a korean movie with drug dealers, and it was implying love between men and it was confirmed by the actors and the director that it was a love story. But just for u to know, one part of your soul will die after watching it. Personally, i watch bl or kdramas with bromances, because i found the characters to be cool instead of the typical romance between a man and a woman that the woman will hate the handsome dude that wants her and he will hate her until they fall in love. I find them really cliché, but the BLs that i have watched have characters who have multiple personalities, they are not dramas with the same romance over and over again, also in some cases, im jealous of the women there or i dont like them at all, so yeah...i prefer BL.
It’s a shame that BL got stamped down in China- otherwise I think that China would have overtaken Thailand in the BL industry. It was really exciting to see BL flourishing in the Chinese media at the time and a huge shock and disappointment when after Word of Honor everything got censored and even the cast faced backlash. The focus on masculinity is really a focus on Western style masculinity. China will just end up with its own flavor of toxic masculinity that we’ve seen in the West with the same problems.
unconvincing conclusion ..... there are plenty of BL drama from taiwan, thailand and japan ...... yet none of them make a good soft power strategy in the west
Your conclusion is incorrect. BL drama from taiwan, thailand, and japan lack actual stories and worldbuilding. You can't compare them to China BL like The Untamed, which has good epic story with romance & excellent worldbuilding. That's what make China BL stand out from the rest and is a good possibility to be good soft power strategy in the West. The West favor high-fantasy, and China BL offer that aside from the gay romance.
@@odeliamili7129good story is good story ... does not matter what genre it is ... this video discussion is specifically about chinese BL drama as a soft power strategy ... that's my point
There's still Chinese webnovels. Personally, the Untamed, Guardian, Word of Honor could have been a start of something great, for ME, not having to watch bland het shows is a dream come true. But lately, Japan has also dropped the BL ball, and Korean ones are filmed with $5 and a piece of string. It's a whole thing. I would say, from an outsider perspective, that it could also be a crazed fans factor, c-fandom is... special lets say, and I wouldn't be surprised if China's public policy admins whose main thing is stuff like rural development, railroads and carbon offsetting said nah to millions of work- capable women & men getting lost in rabid stan culture. Like, who will be the doctors & lawyers? The important thing for those of us outside China, who like those celebs from the shows and variety programmes is to try and still support their work, but not to look at the whole of China as an entertainment providing hub. This is a country on its own path.
Hello, I just want to clarify on some perspectives shown in this video. My experience being an avid BL watcher for years is quite in contrast to some of the articles many would find from time to time. BL is usually stereotyped as a genre created by straight women for straight women but that is not true, at least to the extent people say it is. I’ve met many queer women and men especially who are primary consumers of BL and many of the novels (including Danmei) have male authors. BL from my experience has always been used as a primary source of representation, not just in Asia but all around the world. I often always read articles from the west depicting BL as a niche genre made by straight women for straight women, but to be quite clear it is a genre, made by anyone for anyone, more notably to enjoy a series about two people of the same sex(male) fall in love. That has always been my experience with BL and I would say even more so now this is my experience with BL.
Since this is your experience, I won't argue with you. But actually, Fujoshis created yaoi. Yaoi is what westerners call BL. But It's also true that in recent years gays have written and produced a lot of BLs (see GMMTV). Japanese women (Fujoshis) created it a long time ago ( I think early seventies).
It really speaks to the quality of Chinese BL (or it could just be my brain rot) that even post-censorship I still follow other Chinese BL media quite closely (novels, audio dramas, manhua).
From my experience this is a genre of entertainment that is drawing in many many many many many many more men than it did originally, myself and my husband included. I've given up on watching any of these types of shows out of china. Time and time again we start watching something and have just been completely disappointed, forgetting about the censorship. It's way past time the Chinese government grows up and joins a more adult community. It's absolutely ridiculous that they blame the CIA about their birth rate issues when it's their own policies that caused this and if they had listened to people in the know they would have realized their population was going to be in serious decline. This is a situation they're going to have to deal with for a number of years
China’s government is so weak it can be destroyed by 2 men falling in love
fascism’s ultimate weakness is queer love, always has been!!!
Not just China, Russia's government is the same. Basically all communist countries.
Eventually, the CCP will piss-off Tu'er Shen, the Fujian God of Homosexuality.
Chinese government is intelligent,if the trend of 2 men falling in love is allowed to spread it will end humanity and they want to prevent it.
This was a very interesting, informative and much needed delving into the topic of China's restrictive content policies. We in the U.S. hope that it will prove to be a phase that had unsuccessful results and the restrictions start to relax over time. Thank you, Jimmy, for sharing it with your viewers.
BY THE WAY. WHAT DO YOU MEAN ONLY WOMEN WATCH BL?!
2:27 what show is this??
Addicted was not only banned, but the main 2 actors were banned from appearing together in public for 8 years because of the uproar it created when they went on variety shows together(which also got banned from airing). Also some of the individual works of the actors were postponed or cut for atleast 2 years
Xiao Zhan and Wang Yibo are the same and it’s so upsetting to me
The Chinese government is disgusting!
Addicted series lives upto It's name cause I am literally addicted to it and the novel is *chef's kiss*❤
Yeah, i remember those times. Awful, the government has to stop with this censorship bullshit.
Can I ask, how come Addicted is allowed to be shown on IQIYI? I was looking it up and saw it’s on there. Is it only available there outside of China? I’m curious how the laws work re: shows that were previously banned
You are correct that BL started as mostly media written BY women FOR women, but that's been changing in the past few years, more and more queer creators are taking the elm and creating their own work, and in turn, more people from the LGBT community are tunning in to watch.
Right, and there is an inherent link between cishet women and the lgbt community in China, which doesn't exist in the West. Women are under extreme pressure to choose a husband there, because the gender ration is skewed. So every gay couple, relieves that pressure on the women by removing men from the dating pool. That's exactly why the gov't doesn't like it. They don't give a crap who fricks who and it's certainly not a religious proscription: but they do want women to get married and make more soldiers. Men not wanting women allows the women to be childless for longer. Hence, it's in the interest of cishet women to encourage gay men not to suck it up and be dutiful sons.
This!
Yup and I think it's required.
this!! most of the people who I know enjoy BL are queer themselves
i don't watch lgbtqia+ films or series played by a straight actors who doesn't do anything good or support the community
I think there is a huge misunderstanding about bl's appeal to straight women, at least for a percentage of that population. Consider for a moment, if you can, that many women are tired of, and often full of tightly-controlled anger
about the way society and men treat them. Being forced into jobs with low pay and no control, husbands who make decisions without consultation or respect, and social pressures to labour endlessly to benefit male family members. Most women put up with at least some if not all of these. And so watching traditional romances where women do these things with the appearance of happiness is its own form of propaganda and offers very little entertainment; more like having your nose rubbed in it even more. BL love stories don't suffer story lines drenched in issues of patriarchy and misogyny so they are absolutely a breathe of fresh air and a type of love story that can feel more genuine. The fact that they have good-looking actors is a cherry on top but not the main point. China's insistance on "hero"-type masculinity might make politicians feel good about themselves but I suspect it only fuels female irritation with all men and I wouldn't be surprised if accelerates the downwards birth rate. I'm not saying that women don't love and appreciate the men in their lives but it might only be for a few hours on certain days, tbh.
You get it.
It's kinda sad when you realise that Chinese BL author's understand what women want better than their government. Cos who could ever enjoy a gentleman that knows how to speak nicely to their love interest? 😑
Sing it, sister.
I also find in BL that since both leads are men, they have immediate respect from filmmakers. Characters each have their own journeys and desires, and the narrative rarely requests that one compromise them. Female Characters are not often seen holding up their principles, or having goals outside of romance that aren't abandoned to facilitate the romance.
Yeah, the boys are cute, but you can't just throw a hot boy into something and think that makes it a success. There's something to be said for the emotional availability and honesty that BL males give each other that you don't see in Het stuff because women are not fundamentally respected and trusted as equals.
I also don't have to watch a show, count the red flags and know that probably once they marry there will be some domestic abuse which one party will be unlikely to escape from. She ain't gonna be making cosmetics any more; the's going to be a baby farm. As @AllysonLyne says, you're rubbing our faces in a situation we know to be miserable and asking us why we like seeing something that doesn't have the looming shadow of domestic labor and abandonment of identity.
It’s sad, but even authors and fans sometimes talk about how a big attractive of BL or even other forbidden romances (older woman younger man, queer, robot, fantasy) is that you can actually have a romance and character relationship WITHOUT our normal gender norms and abuses. Less of those harmful social norms or expectations or rules that straight couples experience or inflict on each other. They actually get to like each other as people, not as gender roles. To an extent, they still often have tropes and Dom/Sub expectations. It could also be that women are taught to not be sexual and that cultural norm affects them even in private, so enjoying BL is easier than GL.
"accelerated the birth rate downward spiral". . .
Yup exactly.
And those "shoot ' em up " movies nobody even watches those anymore... That's so 90's
And now people are being hip to like what violence does to their kids and themselves and stuff so wow the world has really changed and they are so archaic.
China having BL dramas really would be unique because of its rich and beautiful culture. Especially their Xanxia genre as seen with the Untamed. It really is a missed opportunity.
Thai BL is thought to be a form of softpower for Thailand. There is an academic paper on it.
Do you have the papers title? Sounds like an interesting read
I'm happy to see you mention that BL is meant to be a space for figuring out sexuality. Mainstream romances are enjoyable in their own way, but suffer from the assumption everyone experiences love and sex the same way.
I find BL so much more refreshing than the sort of hyper conscious LGBTQAI media we have in western culture.
I think an important reason for popularity of BL among women (straight or otherwise) is gender inequality. Two men in main roles provide an escape from gender issues for women - when in het romance it's often (not always!) a choice between unrealistic or triggering. And if we want a historical romance it's a whole other problem: 3/4 of the plot are going to be dedicated to fighting patriarchy, or worse - not fighting it.
Yes completely agree, you remove the power dynamic and the tropes and begin to see what's possible between a meeting of equals.
I would tend to agree however there seem to be even more rigid power dynamics in BL than in hetero romance, with gong and so/shou etc and the characteristics forced onto character to abide by those roles
@@yoeulgong/shou are just top/bottoms. people need variety so people want more versatility but people saying the gong/shou is just rigid roles makes me remember people saying those are het roles and that'e amusing. people's preference in who tops or bottoms is not a power dynamic.
@@jartalol31 I dont think theyr mean just preferences in bed, they usually refer to pursuer/pursued, power dynamic in terms of gong being generally more successful or rich, whose pov is the main focus (the "shou"). And usually moving away from these ideas is more subversion of these tropes than anything IMO
@@yoeul I see what you mean, and there certainly exist BLs (and whole subgenres :D) with more rigid roles (and they definitely stand at the genre's origins), but for the most part I think (and obviously it's just my impression) that in modern BL it's not so much that roles are more rigid, as they are more noticable. What can seem like a power imbalance between two men, looks "normal" for a man and a woman.
What in the world did they think was going to happen with that one child and families only wanting boys, and still only wanting boys
I scrolled down to find this comment. Of course they will not blame themself, they are the power; the ultimate rule. They needed to find a source to blame and they did.
@@charlottesantos4199 sounds like the US
Exactly lmao, the problem is China is the misogyny
It's also culturally that birthing a son means that they'll carry on the family name.
@@Dtzeo503 I know this,it's also a thing of the son taking care of their family in old age like a woman can't do the same thing I did
Word of honor was my portal to BL...
Incapable of choosing best between WOH and TU...
Banning Cininese BL has the effect of.... prefering Korean, Taiwanese, Thai... and Japanese bl...
If China doesnt want to release domestically the long-awaited dramas,
like the Story of the Bat, Immortality, Winner is King, and gardians of west...
Why not release them internationally ?
Export it as a weapon... if they really think it saps society 🙂
( Having four children... I really don't think enjoying BL has had much negative effect...)
There's actually no "negative effect" caused by BL, that's just one of the things people like to repeat to avoid being homophobic directly.
Because those series started filming before the ban and the productions had applied for a Chinese release permit. Once you apply for your movie or series to be shown in China, regardless of what happens in the future with the production or industry, you're locked in. China "owns" The viewing rights to the production indefinitely. While international viewing does bring popularity, true money is found in airing in China and the resulting product promotions, actor events and so on. That's why productions apply for Chinese airing.
Now, if these series hadn't applied for Chinese distribution, they could shop their series for outside China only viewing. And platforms like IQIYI, Netflix, etc would jump at airing these productions.
They should realise bl Drama in international platforms
I am waiting badly for Immortality and Internal faith drama
The Untamed i watch more than 6 to 7 time but I can't get over this masterpiece ❤😢😢😢
Same here ❤❤
It's not going to happen, the Chinese government is so homophobic that they don't even care about losing the potential money that BL dramas offer
Yeah, get all the Danmei adaption on international platform
Nothing is going to change until the Chinese government does..... I feel terrible for the community in China having to be under the rule of cowardly rulers who don't realize they would look much stronger if they were more accepting. They look insanely weak with their current policies
I really recommend the books if you haven't read them. They're very good and you get an actual happy ending.
I've thought the same thing. China could be a powerhouse with its BL stories. They are so engaging. The Untamed got me into Cdramas. I think if they want to blame something for the decrease in population, blame work culture. It's crazy. Thanks for this. I really do wish China would just let BL go all out. It could be amazing what we get.
Blame capitalism and inflation
@@davfb8622 That makes zero sense. Communism and world super powers are at fault. Inflation has nothing to do with this. The government is afraid of the power women feel watching this. Simple.
that's not called masculinity that's toxic masculinity
I'm confused by their logic. If women like it, clearly it's masculine enough to be seen as attractive.
@@aaroncarson1770 I mean the entire reason why straight women like BL is quite complicated, like for some it's like if you like chocolates so two chocolates are better and for some it's more like a fantasy so that's why so many toxic relationship are often seen in BL but it is a homosexual relationships in the end, so according to them it would promote homosexual relationships in the end
@@dramaanalyst1745 They could see it like that, but they could also see it as promoting attraction. Speaking for myself, it's wonderful to see two men being attracted to each other, and the wonderful thing about BL is that it's often portrayed outside of a political context, and the attraction is as much a revelation to the characters as an experience, so the intensity is compounded by the sense of the unknown. I don't know what point I'm making exactly. Thanks for answering me. I miss Chinese BL. Addicted was mind blowing when I saw it. I've just come off bingeing White Cat Legend, which did have the magic, even though the creators coloured inside the lines. I have a theory that magic and homosexuality, or just sexual liberation, when depicted in media is quite healthy for the culture, and it seems to be the thing the Chinese government is objecting to, and the really sad thing is that they make content in this genre so well. Vietnamese BL is quite good, but I might actually put Chinese BL at the top of the chart.
@@dramaanalyst1745I've till now not found the answer why i like bl, i just like it, the 1st time i read bl i was just drawn to it, like a north pole of a magnet to a south pole, till then I've been addicted to bl
@@kerorikun8910 I just love romances. BL is fun because it tells a different romance than HET. A genre that expands my reading options but still gives me romance? Yes, please.
Not only women watch BL a lot of men like to watch BL too. This is not only exclusive to women.
99 percent of people who watch BL are women, 💯 percent of people who write BL are women, BL is literally the fantasy of a straight woman
From the beginning of time whether we believe it or not there has always been samesex relationships/love/sex… this can be found in almost every culture although most are covert in religious cultures
Well done. A well thought out argument. It's sad that China is doing this, apart from missing out on all that revenue and making people interested in China its culture and history it's also pushing toxic masculinity which is a big problem in other countries.
Instead of soft power, they just show the world how easily they can censor and ban a fav drama. It is backfiring on the gov as a whole.
Chinese danmei novels have a huge fandom. It is being published in different languages. Danmei subreddit in reddit has many straight male members too. Because most danmei has a decent plot ,not only romance. Romance between 2 men is something that happens in the background during zombie siege, horror survival game, murder mystery, ancient political struggle between nations, war against zergs, mecha fight or modern grueling office work. All those Chinese bl series are based on popular danmei novels.
It is sad that we can't watch any live action adaptations but gladly novels are hard to control. Thousands of them are being written every day,delete one today and 1000 new books would appear the next day. They have over billion people, number of danmei novel writers are crazy! I think every young Chinese female tries to write one in their lifetime or smth. And many are being translated by various fan translators.
Because a decrease in the birth of women cannot lead to men seeking sexual release with each other. And, of course, long working hours always leads to people seeking to have lots of children.
Funny how that worked (?😒).
@@sherrygadberryturner9527
I don't remember who said it off hand, but someone said
Life is a comedy to those who think and a tragedy for those who feel.
And, I think that there is plenty of room to disagree with him.
Appreciate this video, but I join several other commenters by saying they BL is by straight women for women is not the full story. Currently, the genre is developed by men and women and for many of us same-sex attracted people, it is a chance to see romance and friendship between 2 guys in a way that we were robbed of by heteronormative society.
yeah ive always hated the idea of bl only being made for straight women. not only does it exclude and invalidate fans who are not this demographic, but i feel it also makes others not want to give bl a try because of this stereotype. and as an lgbtq+ fan myself im just here to watch gay people be cute together like wtf🥲
@@kalkxxfacts.
@@kalkxxmaybe because 💯 percent of BL are written by women and 99 percent of people who read BL are women, it’s from a woman’s fantasy, that’s why BL are so different from gay novels
It started for straight women by straight women and that's still a big part of the market, least in Japan where it originates. Glad it's spreading out tho
Bl is for straight women, it’s also written by straight women, no man can ever write stories like this regardless of their sexuality
I worry about the spillover effect of this ban and the focus in masculinity on the actual LGBTQ community in China.
Taiwan bl is now taking the spotlight since China stepped down
Thanks for covering this topic! Chinese BL gains a lot viewership not only because of the bromance, but well-developed, deep, and innovative plotlines which has been lacking in other recent Chinese dramas. Therefore, although most of the viewers are straight female, straight male audience also watch too and it did not change their sexuality as suggested by Chinese censorship board haha. At the time of the ban of BL in China, there was a multitude of problems resulted from this new genre: male actors deemed not “masculine” enough, toxic fandom fights, and the Chinese entertainment industry seeing this genre as quick money beginning to mass produce lower quality content. These type of problems is commonly seen in any untapped new market: challenging traditional views, chaos, and industries using it for financial gains. I think China could have use this as an opportunity to educate its netizens of the quality of a man doesn’t only involve brute force, instead inner strength like loyalty, braveness, and responsibility. Instead, they just opt for a more easy route by banning the whole genre. Their attitude directly reflect the toxic masculinity and homophobia in the Chinese society, which unfortunately will not change for the better in the near future. The younger generation of Chinese do seem to be more accepting of new genres, maybe there’s a chance of seeing the unaired Chinese BL once the younger people get into the censorship board haha.
The point is watching bl will never make an entire population homosexual. Sexuality is a preference. It simply depicts that Chinese government has no knowledge about the topic if gender and Sexuality. Homosexuality has been prevailed in our society for a long time its proven. Scientists have already said its not an illness. Even in China in ancient time men preferred to wear make up and now they are saying these are sissy men !!!!how ridiculous!!!!!
I have waited for Eternal Love, a bl live action of Heaven Official’s blessing which is another work from MXTX the author of The Untamed, and Immortality(2ha) for years now but i really hate how due to chinese censorships I can’t watch it.
I live in an incredibly patriarchal household as the eldest daughter and im also bi so bls provide me with sense of security and comfort.
I am currently praying for the downfall of chinese policy makers 😊
funny that this 10:21 minutes video talked about everything related to BLs but Gay and Queer people 🙂
Whenever I watch such a video, I'm always confused that the western media treats BL as a super niche genre existing only in Asia. Like they literally ignore slash fiction culture in their own countries... (and I'm also a huge fan of original slashfic.)
IKR? Like Love, Victor doesn't exist. Or Heartstopper. Those are BLs.
Exactly! It's so funny to me actually, BLs exists in western countries too
Western Gay cinema and BLs are different things. They have different histories, demographics and tropes. Gay culture may share elements across the world, but its also unique to each place. It's not a problem to respect and recognise that
that is changing...several us series movies are including bl
@@changos1. please define BL in the sense you're using it
I discovered BLs last week. I'm still kind of perplexed by why I love it so much as a straight female. I've never been interested in gay relationship storylines. In fact, almost anything romantic, unless it's heavy on comedy, turns me off (like 'The Notebook'). As one woman viewer put it, with no female main lead, we women can detach and stop comparing ourselves with the characters. I also like the fact that many of the women in BL series are nice and just normal, not catty or whiny. With the exception of all but one Korean actor, I don't find the actors appealing for me. I think they are very good looking, but only one Korean actor makes my knees weak. The rest are just good looking guys that I enjoy watching. I do admit I like the ones where there is a more dominant male and a more docile one (sexy vs. hot). Overall, I get the sense of being in love without the bother of a personal relationship, lol. As long as I get the same feels, I'm all good!
Yeah I agree "we can detach and stop comparing with the FL)
You have definitely clarified a question I have had in my mind for some time, which is: Why would an advanced and sophisticated culture like that of China be so hostile to bl, homosexuality, androgyny, etc. Tying it to the dramatically dropping birthrate (only 10 million in one year!), the legitimate demographic and highly paranoid national security (the CIA is behind it all!) concerns definitely add a different dimension and paint a clearer picture of whence this hostility and its ensuing policies derive and why it has been so tenacious and persistent in its endurance despite most advanced cultures going in the exact opposite direction (Thailand's Parliament approving same-sex marriage last week, for example). So I thank you wholeheartedly for this erudite and illuminating video! 😊
hostility to homosexuality is relatively modern thing in China as it is in Japan, for most of their history it was tolerated and even accepted, (then influence of Western colonization) but when you have conservative governments with specific agendas, but what they should explore is why BL is so attractive to women and see that a less toxic masculinity is actually more appealing, notice that despite pressure against 'fresh young meat' you have the same actors still promoting fashion and makeup (maybe just removing the sparkling eyeshadow and earrings) and maybe getting a bit more 'roughed up' on screen.
@@KeiPalace which is ironic because they are all about traditional values without realizing this is western influence
It's unfortunate they don't allow explicit gay representation it feels like emotional blueballing because all the potential and chem a ship has you know it'll never amount to anything as cathartic like when a show gets canned on a cliff hanger.
Something I think is interesting is that from what I’ve heard from my fellow Chinese BL fans, it’s pretty sexist of the CCP to claim that BL would reduce men’s viability when from what I know, safer seeming traits that are often treated as “androgynous” and “feminine” are just more attractive than traits that make a potential husband seem more likely to be despondent and dangerous. But instead of acknowledging that some women may or may not prefer a man who’s caring over a man who’s buff, the CCP just says women are wrong for being attracted and men are wrong for being attractive conventionally speaking. Instead, focusing on a power fantasy and stoking homophobic rhetoric about “no babies person, no good person” to build up their own puppeteered population based on their own “masculine” controlling beauty standard. Just let women be happy, goshdanggit.
CCP are trying to control people preferences. Joke on them, CCP will suffer a horrible consequences for that
Some of the responses do reek of "how dare all these women prefer men who're nothing like me, and if they're allowed to do so how am I meant to get laid?"
I get the sense most hardliners are too stupid and uncreative to appreciate art, of any subtlety or complexity. Could apply in US as well.
oh, they do it in commercial way, look at sweet baby incident.
they accused a married korean man never met a woman, for designing a female character that is to attractive to male gamers. too stupid and uncreative to appreciate art, how neat.
1.4 billion people live in China and not one gay person wow. I didn’t watch The Untamed. I keep thinking maybe I will one day, but it did allow me to do; was find out that there was an awesome actor in that show name WANG YIBO. That led me watch Hidden Blade, which I thought was absolutely fantastic and did show on the big screen in one of the smaller theatre in Vancouver BC. I don’t watch any of the big production Chinese films what I do watch are the Chinese detective stories which I find absolutely fascinating. They are so different from the western type of detective shows that are produced from the American television industry.
Give The Untamed a try it isa great show (first few episodes are rough but then it is amazing). Plus Wang Yibo’s new drama War of Faith is also amazing and captivating.
Under the Skin is one of my favorite detective/mystery stories! Also, Killer and Healer. Also, The Untamed is an extraordinary story-you should check it out!
I'd say give Untamed a try, but try to get through the first 11 eps, it gets better, Wang Yibo just grows by leaps and bounds in it, master of the understated performance, oh and Yibo has a new drama out now, Republican era like Hidden Blade called War of Faith.
I'm glad that India doesn't has BL for now like straight rom-com, India has seriously focused on LGBTQIA+ series or movie. BL is good to watch but it shows same sex is normal which is not in the real life, if people think to come out without thinking how abnormal it is to most people, they can be disowned. Slowly people are accepting real life same sex couples here so I hope we can accept homosexual people in majority ❤
One reason I watch BL dramas is not only for the romancee, its because I am an older woman, without brothers or sons. I have a daughter. For me these young actors are like sons. I enjoy watching their school antics and falling in love. My daughter is not married. I haven't had a chance to feel that heart flutter when young love enjoys that kiss. The sex in BLs is so light and just cuddling and modest I just feel like a grand mum who accidentally steps into the room without harm being done. But I get that warm smiling feeling of witnessing young innocent love I think people in families feel when their young people start out in life. It's like any othet dramas. It gives a chance to see life you can not experience for yourself.
I loved ‘The Untamed’. I was thrilled to hear that more fantastic BL Wuxia/ XiaXia was in the works. I believe that the story told by ‘ The Untamed’ is, at its heart, a love story of epic proportions. Every bit as memorable and deserving of classic status as anything written by Jane Austen or The Brontë sisters, sublime in both its storytelling and authenticity of purpose. The result of this overwrought censorship is making the East appear weak and fearful of its own progress. China needs to look to it’s own extreme policies and dissolution of economic stability for the reasons behind its youth not feeling secure enough to want to raise a family.
well, The Untamed is itself fanfic of another Chinese IP, and once you see other series, you realize that it's a tropefest of other Chinese drama narratives, what many in the West find compelling is that it's not a Western way of storytelling, but it's not 'classic' or high lit at all. It suffers from having no strong female characters who move the narrative on their own, (the 2 that do exist, Jiang Yanli and Wen Qing had to be expanded greatly in the drama and even then only exist to bolster the story of the male protagonists, fridging, etc.) if you look at all of the author's works, they are for a Chinese audience and specifically break and twist well known genre tropes. If you want epic classic Chinese drama, you want to go to Nirvana in Fire.
@@KeiPalacetotally correct when writing a fantasy story a person should ignore all established tropes for the genre such as a magic system, supernatural creatures, and heroes. Also it is important to force a female character into having a central role, so you can save time by removing the focus from the core plot by making one of the men female for the sake propriety and appeasing claims of weak female cast. Of course as it is the Untamed is fantastic and I’d prefer they didn’t change storylines excessively for the sake of appeasing moral outrage. I also prefer to know that when I pick up a wuxia or xianxia story that there is a training method used to increase personal power or gain external abilities. It’s how you know what it is
I'm a straight man but I enjoy watching BL series 😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂
Its not only women who love BLs im a man and I love BLs and most of my male friends also do. 😊
Yes! Out of curiousity, do you mind me asking what your sexuality is? I'm a bi female but don't have any male friends who watch BLs... (If you aren't comfortable answering the question, no worries. 😊)
Cis male or trans male? Sorry to ask but whenever I heard a man say they liked BL They were either gay or trans(nothing bad about that)
same, i'm a man and the majority of my male friends love BL too. my father started watching the untamed a couple years ago and he's now addicted to danmei/BL 😅
@@kurokura8379 love that, haha! I wish I had male friends who watch BL, it’d be interesting to hear a wider perspective. 🤔
It is truly unfortunate because I love Chinese culture and Chinese animation but it just doesn't have the same influence as Japanese or American pop culture. I'm someone that believes some censorship is necessary for the stability of the populous, like every country has censorship for a reason. However I do notice that compared to Japan or Korea, China doesn't really care or support its soft power industries like film and animations which is truly unfortunate, the reason is partly culture, partly undeveloped industries and partly censorship. I believe it would be beneficial for China to relax its censorship on its media but I think it's not fair to disregard their media just because censorship exists. Lots of great Chinese films and games have reached the west recently, like Deepsea/Shenhai, Link Click and the upcoming Blackmyth Wukong. China just needs a little push in its soft power to get it rolling.
This video is so educational, insightful, and informational. (It can actually be the topic of a PhD dissertation.) Thank you for the effort and the wisdom that you share. However, you neglected to mention another very popular Chinese period "bromance" series aired after "The Untamed" (some would argue it's even more popular than "The Untamed") - "Word of Honor." What subsequently happened to one of the leading actors of "Word of Honor", Zhang Zhehan, can only be described as the worst nightmare that can happen to anyone in the entertainment industry. The state-controlled Chinese media embarked on a vicious concerted effort to demonize and tarnish the reputation of this young man whose popularity skyrocketed right after the airing of "Word of Honor" (where, ironically, he played the more masculine role than the other leading actor who hasn't suffered the same unfortunate fate as him). They dug up photos of him being a guest of his Japanese friend's wedding and visiting a Japanese shrine, and using those photos to label him as a traitor of the Chinese nation. This has completely destroyed the career of this young man which had taken him more than a decade to build. Today, no one even knows Zhang Zhehan's whereabouts. It is obvious what the state-controlled Chinese media and the Chinese Communist Party wanted to do - they wanted to his Zhang Zhehan as an example of what would happen to any actor or artist who does not follow the state ideology and policy of the so-called "masculinization" of male acting roles. There are many facets of the horror of Chinese Communism and authoritarianism. But what you shared with us here potently demonstrates one of those horrors that permeate throughout Chinese polity and society.
yes, Word of Honor certainly pushed the edges, and it's still popular in China as a way to make revenue through merching, even if the show itself (and it's lead actor) have been banned.
Thank you for your comment, I think it is very important to share this info to people who haven't heard about or seen Word of Honor as it had a huge impact on this topic :)
Zhang Zhehan was mixed up in a much more sinister plot, though. His career blossomed almost overnight and he gained several major endorsement deals and offers from production companies just months after Word of Honor was released and it made a lot of people in the industry feel very threatened. Smear campaigns like these usually happen in China when a star becomes too huge. The same thing happened to Xiao Zhan. Unfortunately for Zhehan, they found something that could destroy his career and they made sure he couldn't come back by systematically spreading misinformation and malicious rumors about him even long after he was cancelled. But he recently made a comeback and is doing quite well as a singer outside of China. He has had sold out concerts in other parts of Asia and even performed in Hong Kong a couple of months ago. I read somewhere that his lawyers found evidence of defamation that lead to a certain PR firm in China, so he hasn't quite given up yet. If you want to know more about what he's up to these days, he has an official Instagram you can check out.
@@erianiviel8871 Thank you for the update. Because of this video, I decided to re-watch "Word of Honor." It really is a fantastic series, even better than "The Untamed." The performance of Zhang Zhehan was simply outstanding. The chemistry between him and Gong Jun was amazing. I really hope whoever defamed him will be punished, and that he can regain his reputation. I followed his career a little, and I learned how hard he had worked to become what he was. But everything that he had worked so hard for just disappeared overnight - literally. This is one of the biggest problems with the Mainland Chinese netizen culture. Since it is heavily censored, Mainland Chinese netizens are especially easily affected and swayed by fake news and rumor. Moreover, it almost appears if they are actually happy to see any famous people, especially celebrities, to "fall from grace," regardless of whether the rumors that lead to such fall are true or not. So whenever any rumor starts, they will simply brainlessly and viciously add to it, hence this snowballing effect that can happen within days or even hours.
@@flyingzone356 I prefer Word of Honor to The Untamed myself. I ended up reading the novel version because of it and loved it, but the novel of The Untamed didn't interest me one bit. That's just me, though. MDZS is just not my cup of tea. I'm just not into this type of romance and I prefer WOH because of its wuxia elements and the banters between the two leads. They really chose the right actor for Zhou Zishu. Zhehan had the right look and acting chops for that role. Unfortunately, many people also didn't like him because he was competition. I have friends who are fans of the Untamed and they immediately believed these lies because of the rivalry between the two BL series. I don't doubt that some of them helped spread these rumors. I actually don't understand the rivalry at all. Why can't we just enjoy what we want? So some people love The Untamed, some don't. Personally, any BL series is better than no BL at all. As for Zhehan, he's now a musician and a filmmaker. I personally don't want him to go back to the toxic Chinese entertainment industry. He has more freedom to do what he wants now, so he's better off.
The thing about BLs for Gay men are three. 1) They often aren't about suffering and persecution and prejudice. Yes, that is the reality of Gay life, but after you have seen 12 or 20 dramas about coming out and homophobes, you don't need to see the 21st drama with the same theme. 2) These dramas occur in high school or college and for many Gays, especially older, that wasn't a possibility, though we tend to overlook some aspects. Like they kiss in the 10th episode and have sex in the 15th episode. 3) The nations don't have a pervading Christian culture. The religion there isn't really that concerned.
They have their downsides in that in some cases they are just two women wearing male bodies. They tend to have the psychotic jealousy episode. I only tolerate one per series. If there is a second episode I stop watching. They are unrealistic regarding men and sex.
Have you viewed GMMTVs Only Friends series?
Maybe because BL are written by women, it’s from a female’s perspective and fantasy, it has nothing to do with reality,what do women know about being gay 😂
The key to lots of children is women who want to have children.
It's way easier fir a woman to find a man to do the dirty with, than a man finding a woman, flirting with her and stay nice enough to want her to sleep with him and then stay nice long enough to want her to keep that baby.
But is it really surprising that men who grew up in such a patriarchal world think the world revolves around them and what their fellow men do and think?
ua-cam.com/video/zT_aCWTvmok/v-deo.htmlsi=N5MY9M2pEbOEaM2o
Aini did a more general video on the topic of soft power and China about a year ago.
thx
China suffers from low birth rates and faces demographic headwinds. I think these issues are entirely economic. The CCP refuses to acknowledge this because they are the primary beneficiary of the skewed wealth distribution. It's not BLs that are hindering Chinese fertility but an uncertain economic future and very high cost of raising children in Chinese urban environments. CCP censorious attitudes about BLs are not a problem since producers in Thailand, Japan, South Korea, Taiwan, Singapore, the Philippines and other nations are more than happy to satisfy market demand.
I loved The Untamed. I cn feel love between two Protoganists. Wish I could'hve seen more intimacy or closeness
Taiwan should increase focus on BLs to have softpower. The Chinese CP leadership is just old fogies.
True. Taiwan have so much potential
CCP are noisy too
Exactly!!!
Taiwan has a lot o bl dramas already, very explicit ones I might add
(arent' all govs these days, just sayin)
I still keep watching THE UNTAMED everyday.. I can't help myself to love that drama, I love the character of Weiying and Lanzhan, I love the actors of Xiao Zhan and Wang yibo.. I love them since 2019 until today... I can't move on... I have a huge love for them..
But on the Untamed, I had to be convinced to watch it, the first 11 eps are rough, then it gets compelling, for many in the West it's been a gateway drug, as we connect with the actors and then follow them onto other projects, such as Wang Yibo, (Lan Wangji) who has become one of China's biggest stars into historic dramas such as Luoyang and films such as the recent Hidden Blade (with Tony Leung) which did pretty well in the US, so the Untamed does have a lasting influence, even if BL has to hide a bit more (such as the recent Mysterious Lotus Casebook series where fans love to (relation)ship the three male leads.) despite the BL ban, this featured two of the main male leads in wedding tropes, even a night in a honeymoon suite wuxia style) BL lives on, it just lurks a bit more!
Yeah, Chinese soft powers don't do well internationally; and thus came TikTok. With people freaking out at the mere mention of their governments banning that damn app. I love the Untamed, loved the novel. But I generally dislike Chinese shows (I rarely watch them), 'cause I know everything you see and topics within it have to all be preapproved by the government, and you can just see celebrities being very careful not to say something that could get them in trouble. All I hear in all their programming is the same thing: 'Let's promote peace, love and unity'. 🙄
Great coverage on this topic. I had no idea about BL until I watched The Untamed. Immediately after, I became a BL fan. I know it is more tailor towards girls and not so much men but it still is nice to see men be bromance with other men. Thailand is known for BL dramas and Kinn Porsche is definitely one of my favorite, and they are going to try to legalize gay marriage. I think if the dramas are also allowing change to occur in society in a positive way, I think the government is very controlling in China and would never let dramas or actors change how things are in society. It’s a fear for government in China to have celebrities rule the country and their people worshipping these celebrities.
True
The first BL series that I watched is Addicted. From that point, I began to explore BL series from Thailand, Japan, South Korea, and Taiwan. After Addicted was banned, none of other Chinese BL series is worth watching, in my opinion. You know, because of the censorship. Those watered down version of BL into bromance are just too pathetic to watch. While the stories were interesting, but the repressed romance are just too appalling for me. Why forcing myself to watch those repressed second rate romance, when I can watch open romance scenes on other series from other countries?
You're on point
And Thailand case, they're not trying anymore, gay marriage is now legal.
@@cahidijoyoraharjo7833what your take on word of honor? While not too focus on the romance, you can tell clearly they not even trying to hide it, the both main characters love each other and care for each other.
If Japan can have Hentai I dont see why we cant have BL
Lol true
Very interesting! it's true, the untamed got me interested in China and made me think about it differently than how it is portrayed in the media so it's a shame they closed that door. The reason people have less kids probably has more to do with living expenses and education, not pretty boys smiling at each other.
Exactly.
True
Fuck the chinese government. we could have the best BLs out there is they release those bromance series as actual BL.
I wish they would just release the bl drama that are already made outside of china
I'm a lesbian and I like BL because it's a way to see queer romance on screen in the format of asian dramas. GL is only starting to take hold in Thailand (thanks to GAP), and I'm so glad I finally have something I can relate to even more. But it's important to understand that many non-het people watch BL. It's not just made by straight women for straight women anymore. Are us queer people supposed to not want to watch people like us on screen or something? Are we supposed to only continue to watch het series because BL is for "straight women"? I think not.
Then there's Thai BL thats like the complete opposite lmao
EVERYBODY STREAM HEAVEN OFFICIAL'S BLESSING!
I as an Indian love bl..
I really love thai bl...
I just hope other Indians were to be more open..
Actually India has a huge fan dom of BL fantasy..
Me too Indian
Yeah you are right....here are lot's of BL fans but they are afraid to accept it as they will be easily judged or called weird.....😢
@@RupsaBanik222 most often they do accept...
But there's always that classmate who has to pinch you or else his itchiness won't come down..
That one person will tag you as pervert , gay(which is not actually offensive but yeah! In sarcastic way if someone calls you a dahlia it also becomes very hurtful ), weirdo etc
I was waiting for Eternal Faith 😭
I realy liked wasching this Video high keep ging!
Great video
and i'm still sour about addicted it been 7yrs LOL
Do you know that they remade Addicted into Stay With Me? It was the version that the China government approve. No kissing, no hugging, nothing. Just some deep and long stares to each other. LMAO. So pathetic. Not to mention they made the ending bad, one of the main character had a fatal accident. And after that major cliff hanger, they announced that there won't be a next season. So in other words, that's how they portray the fate of gay people. Live in pain, end with untimely death. The Chinese government is toxic and appalling, just like their society.
Me too i'm afraid I'll never get over it
I will also never get over it 😭
I wonder how the Chinese government would react to a Bl like Kinnporsche where the leads are stereotypically masculine and are shooting guns half of the time 😅
Not only straight women watch BL....I have many many male straight friends who got into watching BL series from seeing our or their girlfriend's excitement and love for it ....they say it's more engaging and fun to watch something new that they never experienced.....and they also don't find that much kick from watching normal hetero relationship series as they are already living that life .....😅😅😅😅😅
I'm aroace and it's hard to pin down exactly why I like bl. it's most likely a mix of all the reasons in the video though in general i think i prefer there to be no women because I'm not a woman who experiences those feelings.
having two male characters removes the imbalance of power and you see a relationship of equals, that's why people are 'into' it, and if you don't care about female characters it's because you can't relate to their motivations as expressed by men (female tropes) I would suggest watching the drama Nirvana in Fire, where greatly developed female characters aren't' drawn by only romance, but rather political needs and a sense of justice, a general, a spy, a doctor are the main charas who stand on their own. The male lead is so very compelling (Hu Ge) and has so many friends around him, if you are into BL he can be shipped in many directions (and is)
I was ready to go all in on Chinese dramas after watching The Untamed. Word of Honor sealed it for me. I started watching non-BL Chinese dramas as well. And then something massively upsetting happened to one of the actors in Word of Honor and I didn't like that. There's been no justice yet and he's still wiped from the Chinese internet over something he didn't even do. I haven't watched a Chinese drama since.😞 Can't take a chance I'll get interested in something or someone and the drama or actors will disappear because one of the male actors didn't breath masculine enough... or someone took a photo of a female actress that has a building (which she never visited) off in the distance...or something else that's completely ridiculous. 😑
This just makes me think about Immortality and how the show is completely done, but can't be shown... :(
I think BL is just cute, is all
But why do I actually watch it?
I guess because the characters are not acting like macho men, saviour blah blah, lumberjack, blah blah. They're masculine, but they're also soft with each other, and it's nice.
And there's no annoyingly weak assed female lead.
Plus, the men look nice
Edit: It's not even about s*x. I don't even like erotica (between any genders). Seems invasive. BL should just be cute stuff, really 😹
it is to the detriment of much BL that there are no female characters of note, even the author of the Untamed admits that in this novel she really should have worked on that more, and in her later book solved some of those problems.
Japan already has a huge market of BL novels and comics. Would the Chinese really be able to compete with that?
I have to admit i love bl movies. Now that it is banned in china , Chinese movies are so boring that they put me to sleep literally. I mean I'm watching villain and the fairey and it is so childish. The main character is depressed cause his dad doesn't like his oh let's say flute so the dad kills his governess
Then theain character discovers his dad fixed the flute and had it hidden away. And the main character is happy. But, what about the governess? I sleep a whole half an hour during this movie and I still haven't missed anything.
there is still BL in china, just more masculine facing characters and a focus on a group of three instead of a pair, which means fans ship threesomes instead, where there is a will there is a way! (Heroes, Mysterious Lotus Casebook, not to mention Lost Tomb/Daomu Biji series etc)
@@KeiPalace sigh, could they ever get on netflex, please.
Ngl, I paused the video at 3:35 to google “Yamato and Kakeru” that I saw on that page hahaha 😂but turns out I’ve already watched it
The Chinese government is honestly ridiculous atp, the government is trying to have a weird ‘traditional’ society is seems. Hope one day they can modernise and let people be who they are 🙏
Yo creo que China está perdiendo una gran oportunidad, yo después de leer novelas chinas BL me fascine por la cultura china y cualquier cosa que tenga que ver con China, que triste que el gobierno se cierre tanto a este tipo de temas, cuando puede sacarle tanto provecho.
I’m a lesbian so I am not attracted to men in general, but most of my friends are… and it’s so funny that the government thinks “traditional” masculinity will help the birth rate, when most of my girl friend are attracted to men who are soft, take care of their appearance, aren’t afraid to express their emotions and their personality. There’s a reason why so many women like K-pop idols lol this is what happens when old men think they know what young women (or men tbh) want. It’s happening in my own country too, it’s really is a shame.
They doing same thing with GL.
China have lot good BL and GL story.
So how is it that we are now seeing so much social media content that seems to come from China involving gay couples, like Lucas and Kibo?
It's more like they've always existed and now you're just noticing it more. 😊
@@innitbruv-lascocomics9910 I meant is the Chinese govt also cracking down as of 2023 on other online gay content, such as couples like Lucas & Kibo?
Thank you for this video!
I fell into the whirlpool that is The Untamed via its source text (Grandmaster of Demonic Cultivation) a few months ago, and haven't recovered since LOL. One thing I will mention is that although much of the romantic and sexually explicit scenes from the novels were discarded in the show, The Untamed actually still did a great job highlighting the queer subtext, pushing it as much as they could given the sorry state of the censorship regulations (both pertaining to portrayals of homosexuality and otherwise).
I have been a lifelong fan of Korean pop culture, and am also familiar with anime/manga. But after becoming a fan of the lead actors of TU, I was just fascinated by how the nationalistic and patriotic messages in most mainstream Chinese media are really just... in your face. I would not accuse China as the only state that does this- I believe 20th century US cinema and the advent of television can serve as a good example here, in fact, although of course, I would say artists were able to fight for their expression and beliefs with a little more liberty, which in turn always allows for a better flourishing of culture. At this point, given how these Chinese censorship rules are only going to get stricter with time, I just wish these media with strong /strong/ propagandistic and/or nationalistic messages would at least be done... tastefully... Like there are many ways...
Also! One misconception about BL is that it is written by "straight women" for the pleasure of "straight women," which has been debunked many times through research. It really discounts the queer potential of not just the source texts but also the fandoms too. Of course, it isn't uncommon in our society that "female" interests are more easily disregarded as trivial and of less worth/value, and it is interesting to think about how that might feed into the general perception of enjoyment of BL as dirty or even fetishistic of gay men. What one fails to account here is that, as you have mentioned, BL is a huge cultural phenomenon in East/Southeast Asia, and particularly in societies where non-cisheteronormative genders and sexualities are under much general scrutiny (although the younger generations are generally much more accepting). In this case, as you have stated, BL/Yaoi/Danmei/Slash becomes an avenue for "straight women" to explore their sexualities and genders freely- that fact that one can go on this journey of discovery in a communal space alone is a huge fortune for many of these people. Which is why, I believe that whole BL by "straight women" for "straight women" statement is very redundant, to some degree informed by Western queer practices, and fails to account for the cultural and political cultural nuances that makes BL the "phenomenon" that it is among the youth in Asia. Of course, one cannot be entirely ignorant of the occasional weird people who actually fetishize gay people through their exposure to MLM material, but to use this is a "gotcha" moment to drag BL as a genre and those who enjoy them is just terribly reductive. But I digress.
Once again, thank you for this video!!
(edited for grammatical clarity)
I don't see how the Wolf Warrior differs much from Marvel, but in the West with the conglomeration of media companies into just a handful of behemoths at Disney, we see repression of queer subtext, note what happened with the Captain America - Bucky narrative when Marvel was bought out by Disney, the underlying narrative of the most successful of their films - Captain America, The Winter Solider and Civil War - which was Cap finding and recovering his best friend was suddenly scrapped, at the demand of Disney honchos, to the point that in the last of the Avenger films Bucky didn't even fight beside Steve and a warped narrative was created to separate the two of them permanently. You couldn't have said 'no homo' any more clearly.
i would love a video essay like an hour long just about this~ 💓 it’s interesting and also i never heard anyone talk about bl and a soft power with that until now
They ignore a major reason of why birthday rates are low, i.e a rating of men to women. There is a slight higher rate of male to female, approximately 105:100.
You should watch if you haven't already the " Merciless" it is a korean movie with drug dealers, and it was implying love between men and it was confirmed by the actors and the director that it was a love story. But just for u to know, one part of your soul will die after watching it. Personally, i watch bl or kdramas with bromances, because i found the characters to be cool instead of the typical romance between a man and a woman that the woman will hate the handsome dude that wants her and he will hate her until they fall in love. I find them really cliché, but the BLs that i have watched have characters who have multiple personalities, they are not dramas with the same romance over and over again, also in some cases, im jealous of the women there or i dont like them at all, so yeah...i prefer BL.
Honestly, China axing their own feet with this. BL could be the one thing they'd have best soft power with
Sawadeeka, Thailand! 🙏 No worries! 😎
Great video. A lot of discussion to be had on this, but won't attempt it in a comments section! :)
It’s a shame that BL got stamped down in China- otherwise I think that China would have overtaken Thailand in the BL industry. It was really exciting to see BL flourishing in the Chinese media at the time and a huge shock and disappointment when after Word of Honor everything got censored and even the cast faced backlash. The focus on masculinity is really a focus on Western style masculinity. China will just end up with its own flavor of toxic masculinity that we’ve seen in the West with the same problems.
You spoke fact
I think how the Party in China handles content generates a lot of resentment rather than admiration. 😂 Wish they would care to change.
Anyone who wants to ban Untamed is insane.
Is The Untamed a BL?
unconvincing conclusion ..... there are plenty of BL drama from taiwan, thailand and japan ...... yet none of them make a good soft power strategy in the west
Your conclusion is incorrect.
BL drama from taiwan, thailand, and japan lack actual stories and worldbuilding. You can't compare them to China BL like The Untamed, which has good epic story with romance & excellent worldbuilding. That's what make China BL stand out from the rest and is a good possibility to be good soft power strategy in the West.
The West favor high-fantasy, and China BL offer that aside from the gay romance.
No, Thailand are actually successful on installing soft power from their BL
@@odeliamili7129good story is good story ... does not matter what genre it is ... this video discussion is specifically about chinese BL drama as a soft power strategy ... that's my point
@@oliviawinani4605i think thailand "LB" makes a more successful global soft power .... LadyBoy
There's still Chinese webnovels. Personally, the Untamed, Guardian, Word of Honor could have been a start of something great, for ME, not having to watch bland het shows is a dream come true. But lately, Japan has also dropped the BL ball, and Korean ones are filmed with $5 and a piece of string. It's a whole thing.
I would say, from an outsider perspective, that it could also be a crazed fans factor, c-fandom is... special lets say, and I wouldn't be surprised if China's public policy admins whose main thing is stuff like rural development, railroads and carbon offsetting said nah to millions of work- capable women & men getting lost in rabid stan culture. Like, who will be the doctors & lawyers?
The important thing for those of us outside China, who like those celebs from the shows and variety programmes is to try and still support their work, but not to look at the whole of China as an entertainment providing hub. This is a country on its own path.
This explanation is really great. Thank you for this.
at this time Taiwan may be the only way we get C-BL. but thats whole other complex issue, also regarding China
Hello, I just want to clarify on some perspectives shown in this video. My experience being an avid BL watcher for years is quite in contrast to some of the articles many would find from time to time. BL is usually stereotyped as a genre created by straight women for straight women but that is not true, at least to the extent people say it is. I’ve met many queer women and men especially who are primary consumers of BL and many of the novels (including Danmei) have male authors. BL from my experience has always been used as a primary source of representation, not just in Asia but all around the world. I often always read articles from the west depicting BL as a niche genre made by straight women for straight women, but to be quite clear it is a genre, made by anyone for anyone, more notably to enjoy a series about two people of the same sex(male) fall in love. That has always been my experience with BL and I would say even more so now this is my experience with BL.
This isn’t true. You articulated you point well though.
Since this is your experience, I won't argue with you. But actually, Fujoshis created yaoi. Yaoi is what westerners call BL. But It's also true that in recent years gays have written and produced a lot of BLs (see GMMTV). Japanese women (Fujoshis) created it a long time ago ( I think early seventies).
It really speaks to the quality of Chinese BL (or it could just be my brain rot) that even post-censorship I still follow other Chinese BL media quite closely (novels, audio dramas, manhua).
White Cat Legend is still awesome though.
But saddest part is those Chinese actors of famous drama... Can't even act like friends... In public... Like addicted
From my experience this is a genre of entertainment that is drawing in many many many many many many more men than it did originally, myself and my husband included. I've given up on watching any of these types of shows out of china. Time and time again we start watching something and have just been completely disappointed, forgetting about the censorship. It's way past time the Chinese government grows up and joins a more adult community. It's absolutely ridiculous that they blame the CIA about their birth rate issues when it's their own policies that caused this and if they had listened to people in the know they would have realized their population was going to be in serious decline. This is a situation they're going to have to deal with for a number of years
From Skam to Untamed and now I'm here. When I see/feel chemistry, I watch it and I keep those stories in my heart ♥️♥️♥️
The feminization is part of a wider plot by CIA..
I died 🤣🤣
Xi: You're supposed to be loving ME!!
World: 🙄🙄