As a Gen X-er, realising you were gay as a teenager was terrifying. Not just the social stigma and discrimination, but sex could literally kill you. That fact stunted every gay person of my age emotionally, right during our formative years, and I think what the film captured really well is how isolated and lonely gay Gen X-ers came to be because of how much we feared each other.
When a mate came out before me at school, everyone said 'oh he will end up dead in a gutter ' and I thought my whole life was over, at least in the sense of my sexuality, he didn't end up in the gutter in yje end thankfully. But I never forgot how it was seen as a one way ticket to doom.
What are you talking about? I came of age during the AIDS epidemic, watching so many friends die. You were still children and teenagers. This movie is not about a specific generations anxiety.
I wasn’t terrified. I was isolated and lonely, but that was also a tremendous catalyst for me, to leave my small town, to adventure and expand my mind and world. I wouldn’t trade it for the current nonsense.
I can see my own past in this comment. Not only did I see the few kids who were out get bullied and ostracized in school, but the stigma of AIDS attached to sex was terrifying. I didn't come out until I was 24, but until then I was very isolated with just a few straight friends. We also have to remember there was no internet, which only added to the isolation and being cutoff from information.
this point fascinates me as someone who's gen z, born in 2000, and is south Asian. i found myself connecting so much with both Andrew Scott's and Paul Mescals character in regard to feeling terrified about my queer identity and how that put me at distance with growing as a person in particular - maintaining connections and emotional assurance. when you realise you're queer and from a south asian culture, you fear for your safety, you imagine the day love will fade from your communities eyes, you become strangers to both the queer and asian cultures. finding yourself in this liminal space of sullen loneliness built on melancholy and fantasies of other lifetimes. i found this movie oddly hopeful, even with the unconventional ending. that how despite all your pain and loneliness, there is still a chance to be vulnerable, to connect, to engage with your pain found in what should have been a loving home and parents whom reflected the ideals of an unkind society. im fascinated by people, especially those from my own gen z community, that didnt see the intersectionalities of this movie. i am unsure if it is a uniquely immigrant ethnic minority experience, but it is hard to detach yourself from a communities historical trauma, even if you did not live it yourself.
I was born in 2005 and found the movie extremely healing. I spent the whole movie crying, not even knowing why I saw myself in Adrew Scott's character so much until I realised it was because of the fear. The stigma of not being loved because of who you are, all the voices in my head telling me I'm not good enough and it would have been better for me to be straight and "normal". I'm from Spain, which I think explains it a bit, because of how recent Franco's dictatorship ending was when the AIDS crisis started and the country was still adapting to a modern democratic world. Also because of my conservative parents and traumatic childhood, but that's another topic
even though I am a full-on millennial, I cried like a baby even on the bus ride back home after seeing the film in the theatre. I could not have anything else than deep empathy for the main character, maybe due to my own personal experiences. I really liked this movie and I sympathize with all of the Gen X-ers around who have had a really difficult coming out as LGBTQ+
So that’s why I couldn’t relate much to this movie. Being gen z, the whole millennial’s parental apology fantasy, while definitely touching, didn’t connect with me; but reading through the comments, I’m extremely glad times are different and that our queer experiences are dramatically less traumatizing. I wasn’t happy to not relate to a queer movie of this caliber, but I’ve realized I was more fortunate. Thank you for every battle fought towards a better world
The movie is gen X, not gen M, but even as I am an early Gen M (right at the beginning) - me and many of my cohorts don't need a parent apology fantasy. either there never was a need or you got it rather quickly after you came out, relatively speaking, all things considered. Also, many people your age or younger will never have that such luck and only the fantasy remains. The wealth of your area, and where that area is, and your race, can have MASSIVE affects on how much you qualify for these generational stereotypes.
As a 'older millennial' this resonates with me too. I grew up under section 28 in the UK, I never knew anything about the lgbt+ world until I was already instilled with an inate shame of anything non-heteronormative, and I'm still working to unlearn it.
Snap. I find myself continually angry thar there's been no apology for section 28 and no real acknowledgement of what it did to us. Instead it's been politely forgotten about
@@peterjermey7235 My late partner was a teacher, and he almost lost his job due to section 28. A girl he taught said, "AIDS is God's punishment for being gay", he disagreed, then the girl reported him for, "promoting homosexuality in class". Fortunately his school supported him, and named the girl, so he was able to defend himself. The school wasn't supposed to name who made the complaint, which is why so many teachers facing down section 28 complaints, lost their jobs.
I will never forget my mother standing at the top of the stairs looking down on me and saying "If you get AIDS don't come crying to me". I was15 and it was 1984 and I did not come out for another 7 years incidentally, as BI, which is what I still am. Even worse than gay back then. Every single one of my friends who had AIDS and died was rejected by their families and died alone, or rather with their friends only. I realise now that the deep distrust I have of straight people in general comes from these experiences in my formative years, well, half my life really. We were haunted by the virus and its consequences, it hung over our heads like the sword of Damocles, by the merest of threads. How easily everyone forgets, and in reality straight or mainstream society (and contemporary LGBTQ culture which is youth obsessed) have totally turned the page without accepting that what in reality we faced was a kind of holaucast, and I don't use that word lightly. It was like the virus was doing the work of society, they didn't have to man the gas chambers, all they had to do was applaud and turn their backs. Which is what they did for the most part.
When covid came and "unsafe sex" was replaced by" going to supermarket" my straight friends were horrified. I patronizingly refer them as "republican pandemic virgins"
I’m so sorry the straight people in your life deeply disappointed and hurt you, but try to understand straight people suffered as well by aids( not as devastating as for gay people for numerous reasons)of course. However as a straight I person lost several relatives including two females from the disease and knew 2 little girls who had aids( one of them I know died)but I sensed there was a refusal to acknowledge that straight people including children also had and died of aids in order to continue the delusion that it was still only a gay disease because no one wanted to deal with it & that was/is a heartbreaking tragedy.
Gen X here. I came out to my uncle in the mid 90's and the only thing he said to me was "Don't get AIDS". I didn't tell another family member for over a decade after that.
This film hit me hard, as a Gen X Gay Man who came out in 1993 at 17, I remember that feeling of isolation and fear and sadness. I was luckier than most, my parents were somewhat accepting at the time and friends were understanding. Although I’ve always been out and been with my husband since 1996, I’ve always felt I had to be acceptable, not overt, blend into the background. It took me until 2019 when restarting an old hobby brought me into contact with Millennial and Gen Z LGBTQIA+ people, that I started to understand what I had been repressing about myself. I’m much happier now being queer and myself.
I am a Gen X (born 1975) bisexual who came out in 1993, having met the bisexual I would eventually marry in 1991. I recognize myself in this video essay's analysis of the gen x gay and bisexual experience. I think there's something about this historical context that explains our shared experience of forming long-lasting partnerships early-on. Like, if you found someone who really 'got' and accepted you as a queer person, you dared not let them go because it seemed impossible that you'd ever find anyone else ever that could possibly accept you as a queer, particularly as a bisexual, since you were part of a group being scapegoated for spreading AIDS outside the gay male community. Does that resonate at all with you?
I’m a GenXer and a gay man … and most all my friends from my younger days are dead due to HIV/AIDS and or addiction. It’s pretty lonely these days; there aren’t many of my friends left.
As a Gen X'er who knew I was gay at a very young age, I was told I was never good enough, disgusting & nobody would love me for me. I was sent to therapy to make me Straight & Christian. At times I still feel like being gay is wrong & wanted to change it everyday, Its taken 45 years to start feeling ok with my sexuality & not push partners away to make what my family said about me cone to be true.
I was born in 72. I knew I was gay before AIDS. When all the gay adults started dropping like flies it became seemingly apparent that simply being gay would be a death sentence since there was little to no understanding of what AIDS was. My adolescense was full of grief and despair such that other generations never experienced. And you couldn't talk about it. People feared you could get it from gay people by casual contact. The onset of the AIDS epidemic was tragic for all the families of the ones who died from it and that was where the focus was. No one really considered the trauma happening to the coming of age LGBT teens. Even now, it's a topic that has been completely overlooked.
Given that ALL STDs (including AIDS) effected all Gen'Xers, that it was a whole generation suffered the exact same despair. All of us carried that burden, that is the beatdown of the Silent Generation and Boomers. On the bright side both the Silent Generation and the Boomers fear the monsters, that we Gen X'ers have become, a product of both generation's making.
No I think they actually did consider it because the Christian right made sure that there was absolutely no hope and no help for this. They intentionally made AIDS as horrible and frightening as possible and locked many of us in the closet for much of our lives. You looking for a person to blame start with Ronald Reagan and keep on going through every Evangelical Christian who is active during that time and since because what happened to us is their fault directly.
I was born in 1971 and my experience was the very same as yours, the first time I heard about it, it felt like a certain death sentence...My mother was a lab tech in the local hospital, one of her coworker was gay and contracted AIDS in 1985, the whole team and his family turned their back on him, she later told me he died alone...
I haven't seen this yet, but I'm very interested. Some of the things you mentioned in the video are very true. I turned 50 this year, and I've been thinking about my experiences as a young gay man growing up in the 80's and 90's and how that affects my present experience. I sometimes like to think that I moved on, and I live in the present, but there is this undercurrent of feelings from those years that still affects me in ways that I'm only now realizing.
this is the most incredible, Reflective and meaningful comment section I've ever seen on youtube. The first time anyone ever threw a gay slur at me it was "AIDs Fa@@ot" I was 13 years old. My two cousins, 10 years and 12 years older than me would both die of the disease within the next 5 years. Another post referred to the disease as a sword of Damocles. And they were so correct.
What’s interesting is i understood the film, I cried even, even tho im gen z, But I live in Saudi so his experience is not strange to me, I’d say his experience was even better which is disheartening when I think about it.
What a great review. I watched the film last night. I was born in 1976, and as I was watching this, I felt like I was back in time again, coming out to parents, confused and alone. The way you analyse this is pretty much spot on, thank you.
Born in 1979 i was 2 when the AIDS epidemic started. It was there in the background of my entire childhood and teen years. That was my sex education in school: disease and death and not even just for lgbt people. British soaps were full of HIV storylines at a time when homosexuality was barely touched and a lot of the characters with HIV were straight men or drug addicts. It's no wonder i ended up asexual through my teens, twenties and even most of my thirties. It's only now in my forties that i can see how trauma impacted the identity i allowed myself in my teens...
I was born in 1965, so the very beginning of Gen X. When I was 18 in 1983, there was no "Queer" community. We were just Gay. Queer was a horrible word to call us back then, so it still sounds weird to my ears when this video keeps talking about the Queer community. I became sexual right when HIV was infecting and killing so many of my fellow gay men. It has totally shaped my sexuality, and I have never been able to fully relax, as the worry is still always there, just underneath, even though I"m on Prep now. I can't shake that fear that carried me for so many years.
I had a lot of schadenfreude from watching folks die from skeptic behavior during covid that were farmed from the same people who said we misbehaved and deserved AIDS.
There is a reason why so many queer GenX have complex PTSD. I will always remember being in my late teens and going to the funerals of friends and mentors who died from HIV -- at one point two or three every weekend -- and not being able to talk to anyone in my family about it. Then having to watch Moral (sic) Majority (sic) types discuss rounding us all up into concentration camps "for the public good." And now having it all come back with attacks on drag queens and trans people.
Same here. In all honesty I'm scheduling a therapist appointment soon. I have some past trauma I keep minimizing but I feel I need to work on. This movie lit a fire in my ass. I don't want to live with any regrets.
It is an extremely well-done film. I''m seeing a lot of fellow Gen-Xers who survived this devastating era in our history asking, 'What now?" We are slowly learning to tread through these unchartered territories so to reclaim our identities as older gay men having value and purpose. Particularly challenging in a culture which has always worshipped youth and treated the aging gay man as pathetic, pitiful, and predatory.. But we are beginning to discover that our longitude,, wisdom, and life experience truly are our greatest commodities. We are also witnessing a societal change in gay culture where our age, sexuality and masculinity are now sought after and revered. The term 'Daddy' has made a great comeback, as we are now the societal elders we never had, because our own rightful elders were stolen by the plague.. In a span of only a few decades, we lived through the absolute worst and best times to be a gay man in society. We had no politicians fighting for our rights, therefore every presidential vote was always for the lesser of two evils.We mastered survival and endurance to coexist in a world that never hesitated to express how much it hated us. We weren't brave or righteous. We lived each day terrified and running for our lives.
Wow! Well, said. I loved your observation about the term "Daddy:" "The term 'Daddy' has made a great comeback, as we are now the societal elders we never had, because our own rightful elders were stolen by the plague." Now that I'm 50 and well into the "Daddy" stage, all I can do is offer friendship and guidance to younger gay men. I'm not interested in romantic or sexual relationships with them, as I prefer men around my age. I greatly appreciate those who survived and are still with us from the previous generation who suffered the devastation, but I do wonder how much richer my life would've been if I had more of them in my life to learn from.
@@jakejackson8238 Thank you. Every so often I will run into someone from 'back in the day'.. a person whom I didn't even know well, but recognize.. and I always feel a special, kindred affection towards them. I am glad you are here, too!
@@xBINARYGODx I'm sure it still goes on. It's difficult to compare my experiences (almost 40 years ago) to theirs. But back then, I found the guys my own age far more troublling, duplicitous and untrustworthy than those 10-20 years older than myself. The older guys were always so much more chill and laid back. Plus they actually had homes to retreat to, rather than a parked car behind a building, lol.
I'm a queer Gen Z er but I connect with this film immensely. Not because it's a gay film per se, but because it's the best motion picture expression of love and grief together I've ever seen.
Me, too. Though it was very brave of him to play an openly gay character in “Jeffery” back in the ‘90s. Most straight actors at that time would never consider doing that.
'queer' means everyone does it not? Say gay or Bi or instead (you know like we did until 10 years ago). Queer is propositioned as fluid and outside the box - dont be offended when non homosexual attracted people are included then. I mean Emma D'arcy is Just an extremely posh girl with a BF at the end of the day. The fact she is put up as the face of my generation......offensive
It's very hard to explain to other generations exactly what it was like to come of age and live through the Aids epidemic. It was the horror of seeing those you love, those you choose as family dying and being unable to do anything about it. And on top of that having most of society telling you that we deserved it, and it was our punishment for being sinful. It was the cold reality that we didn't even warrant a response from our government, that for them we should just die alone. Unless you lived it, I don't think you can emotionally know the impact it had on us.
not just Gen x, gen z asian gays felt the same. we were born into an age where ppl are telling me that im valid and that im loved from the outside, but constantly rejected because im too young, because im asian, becuase im a bear. the loneliness is real especially seeing that how much people were telling you that you deserve love, but then it never happens, so eventually you just become scared to open up ever again.
A lot of people have a misunderstanding of Don’t Ask Don’t Tell. I was in the Navy when DADT became law. Before DADT they would ask you if you were gay. So you had to lie. If you got caught and told them you knew you were gay before you joined, that was lying under oath. DADT was an improvement, it laid the groundwork for openly serving in the armed forces. The original title was Don’t Ask Don’t Tell Don’t Pursue. That would have made a big change. I liked your comments. You are well spoken. Good job.
As an Homo X, I can’t testify that it was an absolutely wild time. We definitely are the In Between generation. The polarity of openly stated views on homosexuality were crazy making at best. We all had to find our feet and voice fast, and walk that hard road on the razors edge of history. I’ll never complain about my formative years at that time. It forced me to become as strong as diamond regarding my sexuality, while keeping my feet on the ground, and my head aimed to the clouds. ⛅️
Would Adam be alive today, he'd be over 70, like me. Would Harry be alive, he'd be, perhaps, 50 or so. The 4 characters in the movie, parents + Adam + Henry are dead from the beginning, just like the characters in "The Others" were all dead, as well as all characters were dead in "Huis Clo", by Jean Paul Sartre. Neither of them had solved out important problems during their life times, the parents had left Adam too young on his own, they were drunk when they crashed their car, Adam had lived the dramatic 80's and 90's without love, alone and with Aids all around, Adam's ill from the beginning of the film, than he dies in the club after snorting some drug, Harry dies in his room from alcohol and drugs, Adam finds him already dead and rotten, then he meets his ghost outside the bedroom and convinces him that everything's fine and they hug each other on the bed and turned into light and become part of the universe as light, as stars, and "the Power of Love" sings as well as "You were always on my Mind", House Martins and Fine Young cAnnibals had sung before. The movie's an allegory of gay men's lives in the 80's and 90's, bullying, hiding, fear, lack of love and Aids, as well as in the 21st century where there's still prejudice against homosexuality. In the end death levels up every thing, parents leave the scene in peace with their son, and the son finally understands that his parents had always loved him, although they didn't come into his room when he was crying; Adam finds love and companionship for the whole eternity, no more pain, no more loneliness, no more life. Somehow "All of us strangers" has a happier ending than "Weekend" had, I reckon! Loved the film, it's a piece of art in itself. Andrew Haigh's a very intelligent man, he knows about us, about our lives, he knows how to choose his actors and his stories, it's a great story performed by wonderful people, all part of the Human Condition!
I feel that the death of his parents age 12 was symbolic of the death of that relationship at puberty and moving into a complicated, lonely world where you don't know how to connect with the people around you, or perhaps more importantly how they will connect with you. And that's symbolised by the two of them living in that empty building. The closest they come to interacting with the world is anonymously riding the Tube. And that's what we GenXs grew up with and it speaks to us. Perhaps we're the "Don't ask don't tell" generation, the active persecution and the age of actual legal penalties had ended, but the deal is society will leave us alone if we stay in the closet )or the big closet of the ghetto). And the film captures the lonliness that comes from that social contract. But I guess also Paul Mescal's Harry must be a Gen Z (Millennial?) and he has all the same wounds too and self-medicates the depression with drugs and alcohol. So in that sense it's trying to say its something that's not uniquely a GenX experience.
I think the differences between Adam (Gen X) and Harry's (Millennial) experience are presented masterfully and with great poignancy. We hear Harry describe his parents as accepting of his sexuality when he came out, whereas we see Adam's parents' (socially contextualised and partly informed by AIDS) homophobia. Adam specifically references that he has an internalised terror of intimacy because to have sex "you know, I could die" is a very literal terror. Harry's line that (I'm paraphrasing) "I've always felt like an outsider in my family, like I didn't belong; being queer just gave a name to that feeling". It's subtle and nuanced and speaks to loneliness and isolation that are key themes of the film. The Gen X experience was formed by specific social factors, but there is a darkness that exists in being Other, a profound loneliness, and therein lies what connects Harry and Adam. To a significant extent this is shared because of their sexuality, and that whilst Harry's family (superficially at least) accepted him when he came out, there remains a shadow of him being Other, the Outsider, that one 'on the edge' but rather than being reviled or hated, he is... forgotten, and who was not found, not thought about, not worried for, not cared about, not invested in, ultimately not loved. So it is a key theme of love and the profound isolation in the absence of love. Harry's parents seem unable to 'hold him in mind' and though on the surface he was born in more priviledged times in terms of queer history, his story is far from rosy. Hence his relationship with drugs an alcohol. Harry's isolation may or may not be related to his sexuality, but it is exacerbated by it. His family's homophobia manifests differently, not in an overt toxicity but in a kind of abandonment. We hear his rage and frustration of (again, paraphrasing), "them out there, living life (in the City) and we're stuck here." He is unable to access the full life, love and affection with his family, his siblings, to be included. Despite the so called more enlightened times, he is denied a sense of belonging. Adam's isolation and withdrawl is to some extent better tolerated, perhaps because it is better practised. He was paralysed by the social context in which he grew up and then stymied by the death of his parents who perhaps could have loved him (their only child), where Harry was tragically forgotten, faded away (his siblings living a more heteronormative life). To some extent Harry has accustomed to emotional deprivation, and there's a big piece here about internalised shame. For Harry there is a roaring injustice, that he 'supposedly' lives in more enlightened times, and yet is still starving, craving, yearning, desperate to be seen and loved.
Time and space: Being gay in Netherlands was very much different than being gay in the USA, the DSM IV which was published in 1994 has done a lot for our community. A thing many people seem to forget. It was no longer labeled a (mental) illness. Cognitive biases.... US & UK fell behind many European LGBTI+ equality laws. Netherlands & Denmark where trail blaizers 2001 & 2000. Then 9/11 happened! But everything is according to the dominant American/English narrations, as if the world only revolved around yours. And the changes in other places didn't matter, our successes and tactics, logics etc. don't really matter; American superiority. If I look at our progresses which are being undermind at the moment because of the USA's anti-LGBT+ crap, it is frustrating and sad. US media and social media, it influenced, and influences the lesser dominant western cultures. Extreme right rose in USA, EU followed. As if gay rights only began in 1969 with the Stonewall riots. 1920 Berlin was the Gay capital of Europe. Then Nazi-ism struck. Similar in the USA after 2015 what was thought to be the peak of LGBTI+ rights/gay rights in the USA; National Theocracy is hitting the US in very similar ways with stochastic terrorism etc.
Thank you for sharing this. The Gay GenX experience was very well explained in this essay. I could definitely identify my personal experiences in here.
As a (younger) Millenial, I believe that the queer media we had during our upbringing was mostly not romantic, rather sexual or AIDS related. So it is still embedded in us. And, personally, what got to me was the loneliness that was so prominent and profound, that plagues some of us too. Even nowadays.
X. "lingering trauma..." i was talking one night in the late 90s with a bartender at Gio's. he had experienced well over 450 men and women enter his life and affect him. these people meant things to him, his psyche, his spirit. All dead, AIDS. We talked about how we knew - often times months, even a few years after - of their deaths. there we were talking quietly at the end of the night in a gay bar at the tailing of the 1990s, right when it was known Aids - for many - could be slowed if not arrested. sooner or later it would kill, but there would be time to live before dying. some handled the drug cocktails exceptionally well and are still alive. Asher mentioned that no one seems to have noticed our grouping as a generation of people in all of it, namely, no studies had been undertaken asking what does it do to someone to have hundreds of people come into ayour life, become important to a person, only to have them snuff out quickly or without warning. there was something else there as we talked and had been there all along and still with us, the X generation, as we're called by others. A numbness, almost a shell-shock, soldiers who survived something awful and now trudging along a road to their next engagement. no heroes or villains, just people "getting on with it".
A generation of gay men before Gen X were dying over and over. I can't explain to the younger generations the intense fear and profound sadness. A righteous anger sustained our hope.
Trixie Mattel and Katya described Heartstopper as "Retro active healing for 3 or 4 generations of gay people." That's 1000% right. I think attitudes towards LGBTQ+ people changed in Britain in the early 1990's because an entire generation of Gen Xers was shagging anything that moved while off their face on E , and at the same time Freddie Mercury died. We all saw Queen at Live Aid and we all knew we had lost someone genuinely special.
I have been looking at gay loneliness, but also boarding school survivor syndrome symptoms - the latter is often connected with leaving home too early and issues of abandonment and parental neglect. Loneliness has been a feature of my life and how to deal with it. But of course you never really properly do. I was living in London and met someone from France. We moved there thinking it would be temporary. Then came Brexit, Covid. Ended up staying as we wanted to keep my French residency. But in the end I think leaving London was the right move. I don't know for sure, but I was always worried about ageing there,. There is no gay life near here in Provence where I am, but we have friends and each other. What we are probably missing is perhaps our own children and family, but I think we are too old to act as responsible parents even if we came to some arrangement.
I see a few comments from my contemporaries objecting to the use of the term "queer." I get it. I felt that, too. I also felt offended by the addition of all those other letters. It seemed ridiculous. But I changed my mind. I didn't understand the usage of "queer." Then I watched my niece, at 14, announce she was queer at Christmas dinner so casually it shocked me. She was so matter of fact about it; there was no drama, no scene, it just came and went with very little comment from anyone. That felt alien to me. I remembered being outed at 17 in 1989 - the recrimination, the disappointment, the finality, the rejection, and the trauma. And here was this child just tossing it out there like it was a discussion of the weather. We had to fight for "Gay," it cost us to own it and own ourselves. To us that word means defiance to everyone who tried to diminish us. And these kids, they've taken gay and lesbian, bi, trans, and all the rest and made them just individual possibilities under the term "queer." They took "queer" and made a big, diverse, and inclusive family that never knew the trauma that made that possible. In the end, isn't that what we were fighting for all along?
I'm sorry, but I don't agree with what made you change your mind: The concept of "queerness" seems to cater to the ideal of "fluidity" in order to make the world more inclusive: Everyone can sleep with everyone - everyone fluid/pansexual - thus: No more rejection, no more feelings to get hurt. This has already divided the gay community. The modern ones claim one should be able to go on calling oneself "gay" although one has discovered, by experimenting - which is being hyped - that you want to sleep with a woman now and then. It is self-evident that they CAN sleep with women now and then, or every day, but they will have to call themselves bisexual or I don't know what - but not gay. They could also call themselves "queer" which shows that this term is an umbrella term that won't be useful for specifically gay needs. If the concept of "it would be best if we were all fluid/queer, because this would be really inclusive" - prevails, what will be the consequences for gay people?
Not gay gen xer. It’s worth mentioning that the term Queer was VERY much used as an offensive term my teenage years. Most of my peers grew up saying homosexual. Being called gay was also used offensively. And for us straight kids the AIDS crisis especially for teenage girls was used to scare us to not have sex. My middle school health class was intense 😱
Some points seem a little nebulous/diluted as “queer” seems to be substituted for “gay/homosexual”, and then also used as a catch-all term to describe a broader group of disparate orientations and identities. Gay men appear to be the focus of the majority of these references. Don’t be afraid to make that distinction when necessary. I feel that contextually it’s also worthwhile noting that “queer” was very much a pejorative for Gen X as they reached adulthood, and beyond in older individuals.
I'm a gay man, I'm not "queer" anything and I hate that word being used to describe me. You get told once IRL, if you say it again I can't be held accountable what my fist does and where it goes.
@@michaeltherrien6814I understand your position and to each their own with what labels you do/do not gravitate towards, but I think for us younger generation of gay people, along with the term being used as a statement of reclamation, it allows for a degree of concurrent unity between different identities whilst granting space for those who might be more fluid on the spectrum of sexuality. Don’t get me wrong, gays, lesbians, bisexuals, and those under the trans umbrellas exist and those labels are valid and important; but I perceive our generations mindset of not allowing such labels to define us and allowing ourselves/others to explore ourselves in regards to our individual sexuality/gender is why I think so many younger queer people identify with that more broad term. Conversely, I’ve had trouble identifying with the word “gay” for a long time due to how categorizing and pejorative it sounded, especially during my younger years where its snarky use was essentially a substitute for f*ggot (a word I was still called and have had used towards me to this day). Idk, just some perspective I thought I’d add as a Gen Z gay person!
@@ujustgotslayedAs a borderline boomer/Gen-Xer (Gen Jones), I feel the similarly. The term queer encompasses a lot of identities and intersectionalities that tbh can be divisive. Part of the issue may be that a member of one faction doesn’t necessarily support another, and I understand why some of those who were harmed by bigots who used the term as a pejorative don’t want it used now. Reclaiming a word doesn’t work for everyone. For me, it encompasses a larger community that has more strength in numbers. I respect those who don’t feel the same and use whatever term they prefer. I love all y’all.
The oddest thing I look back on, the thing I didn't quite grasp then, but am haunted by now...is the absence of the generation ahead of mine in the bar scene when I came out. Not quite Gen X, not quite Boomers...the people 5-10 years older weren't seen much when I came out. While the 18-25 yr olds partied, and the 40-70 yr olds hung about...there was amazingly little presence for 25-30 somethings. It wasn't until I'd been out for awhile and a few of my friends began to sicken and die that I realized fully and completely that the age group just ahead of us were home sick or dead. Our lives went from dance floors and raves to hospitals and funerals. More of us survived as monogamy became normative, and more legally plausible (as sanctions and legal bias against gay couples receded), but with it came a lot of grief and survivors guilt. I am profoundly grateful that the average gay 20 year old hasn't attended 3 or 4 funerals for his peers, and would only be getting started at that point. It IS better. But...i look back and realize that what we experienced was deeply abnormal and extremely scarring. I didn't know another world until it seemingly ended when the drugs became better. HIV is a pill a day issue now...not a death sentence...but I hope another generation never knows the difference.
is it much much better? I think the 90's is arguably the most stellar decade for music, but I mean, a lot of its existence is not because of Gen X - only people signed, older people produced, older people helped write alot of that stuff. Its still a pretty boomerish world for music at that point.
@@xBINARYGODx That's probably true, but there were some gay/queer alternative / indie bands that were very DIY , like Ani DiFranco, The Pansy Division, MAN ON MAN, etc. who were rebellious against the previous boomer generation's tendency to put people and artists into categories.
I'm so grateful for the activists of the Boomer and Gen X generations that gave us Millennials a torch to carry and pass to Gens Z and Alpha. I'm so proud of these younger queer people who are out there trying, learning, making mistakes, demanding better, and doing all the things that humans fighting for a better world do.
I was born in 1963 and so I am deeply deeply moved by being honored by such well chosen, lovely words, thank you so much!! There is one thing I would like to point out to, kindly asking you to not get me wrong - it's just to avoid misunderstandings regarding one certain item: The terms "gay" and "queer" used to be synonyms for a long time. Today, they refer to too different things: "queer" (as an umbrella term) comprises many different sexualities, for example "gay" or "asexual" etc. So OK - umbrella terms exist - why not queer? One could leave it at this but: There is another, much bigger problem: The concept of "queerness" seems to cater to the ideal of "fluidity" in order to make the world more inclusive: Everyone can sleep with everyone - everyone fluid/pansexual - thus: No more rejection, no more feelings to get hurt. If this concept of "it would be great, if everyone were pan" prevails, what will be the future of homosexuality/gayness?
@@julischka_1-5-9 thanks for your thoughtful response. I don't see the word "queer" as a threat to gayness, personally. I understand it as interlinking different sexual and gender variances because of both their commonalities of lived experience under patriarchy and the inherent need for solidarity among them historically. There are material differences between the lives of gay men and lesbian women or between trans bisexuals and cis asexuals, for example, but all of us are looking to live in a world where there is freedom and safety for people. Some folks are more willing to do the work it's gonna take to get there, but all of us deserve to live in that world. Sexual freedom isn't the same as making sex as casual or obligatory as shaking hands. It's about self-determination, which includes people who want to hook up anonymously, people who want a passionate partner for life, people who never want sex and meet their social needs in different ways, and people who occupy different places on that grid at different times in their lives. Fluidity is not an enemy or even a rival of a static placement within queerness as I understand it, but simply a different life experience. I find myself wondering if the idea of "queer" catering to fluidity is a reflection of talking points earlier in our history about being gay not being a choice. The old "why would I choose this?" as a reason to grant gay people rights. While it's true that many of us discover our gay feelings and identities with pain and fear, something we did not choose, I don't believe that should be the center of our liberation. I didn't choose to be gay, but I love myself enough to say that I would not choose to be straight if I were given the option. Wouldn't question it for a second. That freedom is the goal: moving from "we deserve freedom and safety because we're stuck with this" to "EVERYONE deserves freedom (including the freedom to abstain entirely), and I do not care if it's a choice!"
@@yourreward Regarding "[...] interlinking different sexual and gender variances because of both their commonalities of lived experience [...]." yes, I agree - I said that in other, less clear, words, so: For some time, there have been no problems with gays being just one of several groups finding shelter under the umbrella called "queer". But recently, there have been changes: One of the big ACHIEVMENTS of the gay emancipation fight you thanked "my" generation for is: In general, people stopped looking upon us as "not real men" (for being unable to sleep with women). We were finally recognized as real men, in spite of lacking one crucial ability ... according to "classic" standards. This had been a great success. But now: It seems like we were facing a renaissance of the "who is the most masculine gay"-competition (enhanced by the gay adult industry - that is in the position to set new general standards). It's like there were a gentle (maybe sometimes less gentle) pressure exerted to push "simply" gay men towards sleeping with women: "You haven't even tried yet, how should you know you really can't?" These were the words often used, back in the day, to prove that gay men's deepest inner feelings weren't worth a dime - which was deeply traumatizing: The message was (back then): "The way you are, you're not OK!" Then, it was getting better and better. Today, however, I think, we are at a turning point, i.e.: I think I can observe those ancient processes re-emerging - even in interviews (see youtube demystifying) - where people of the adult indstry say (I'm paraphrasing, almost literally, though): "Sleeping with a woman was so hard, I struggled ... but finally I liked it and now I'm doing it all the time on camera, but I'm still gay." This is right what conversion therapy fans (no friends of the gay emancipation movement) have wanted to hear all along. And now, they even received it with exactly the combination of elements they fancy: A) first the struggle + B) now he likes it ==> So they can triumph saying "being gay is a CHOICE, you CAN change, if you just try hard enough." Another of my criticisms regarding the concept of "queer": Will people always distinguish properly between "In this precise context, it makes sense to use the umbrella term" and "In this context I cannot use the umbrella term, it would be too confusing"? I don't think so. So chances are that the term "queer" will gradually replace the words "gay" (and "asexual" and "lesbian" etc.) in general. But it will not be just a word being eclipsed, but also the humans being referred to by this word. The reason for me being so sceptical is: When I, as a young man, had finally found somebody I could talk to about my gayness, I felt so welcome and relieved because the other guy was exactly like me (simply gay), I didn't have to JUSTIFY myself ... How soothing. If I had found out, that he was also sleeping with women (later on, it happened to me twice), the feelings of inferiority would have killed me: "Look at him, one of the good gays, whereas ... I ... ". Meanwhile, I've learned that many gays (OK, my age) confirm what I've just described. So my worries refer to: If TODAY an individual in coming-out-gay-distress applies to somebody they think they can rely on, but then have to learn that there has been a change of attitude, i.e. that being gay in the classic way nowadays is, maybe, frowned at (again...), what will happen to those people? Summary: Will the queer umbrella be able to maintain the distinct groups that unite under the umbrella as the individual groups they have always been or will there rather be a diluting of the formerly individual sexualities towards: everybody fluid/pan?
This film was life changing for me. It was so haunting, so tender. I nagged all of my friends (gay, 40’s) to watch it and every single one cried uncontrollably to certain points in the film. It’s wonderful and amazing. I can cry on demand when thinking about the film, it lodged so deeply into my emotional landscape. Yet it hasn’t been honoured. It’s gay, so the USA would never honour it. Instead they throw Oscar’s at bizarre rubbish like Poor Things!
Born in 70, we were the freakiest generation as we had to use fetishes and alternatives to sex in order to have sexual experiences. Rubber, fists, gunge, bdsm became normalised as the usual slot a tab b was death and we still craved a sex experience. There was a gen x anger towards being reduced to isolated cat ladies and the cleanup crew for Generation Disco.
True, but Generation Disco paid the ultimate price. And even before HIV it was not easy for them. And it saddens me that the younger (PrEP)generation have gone back to that behaviour. I don't blame anyone, because ultimately it is caused by marginalisation and social issues.
I’m going to be another one of those voices that notes using “queer” for “gay” is oft-putting, a generational difference that exemplifies the gay trauma of Gen-Xers like me. In the 80s and 90s, the thing to remember is that ‘queer’ didn’t refer to anyone who isn’t straight. It referred pretty specifically and very nastily to gay and bisexual men. I know that today words like ‘queer’ and ‘f-g-t’ have been repurposed and tamed. But the negative meaning is still there. It’s as if you used f-g-t all the way through. It punches that hard. While GenX used queer, it was used at the bleeding edge of anger. Queer Nation used queer to indict the homophobic society both content to let gay men die and active in rolling back the legal victories we’d made. Your video is great. I’m moved that you are contemplating what life was like for those of us who came of age after the promise of Stonewall and during the darkness of AIDS, Don’t Ask Don’t Tell, and DOMA. Thank you for that. To understand the rest of our experience, you need to grasp how problematic (and traumatic) using “queer” to refer to so many of us remains.
I respectfully disagree. The term LGBTQ and more letters are exclusive not inclusive. It is very hard to pronounce. Queer is inclusive and easy to pronounce. Please look up Georg Carlin’s from Shell Shock to PTSD. It explains how adding more syllables dehumanizes the situation. Queer was the more polite term than. Any word can be used as bad or good. I have seen/heard LGBT used very hatefully. I am also Gen X, understand your prospective. Another problem is people focus more on LGBT than what comes after it. What is after is what’s important. Saying queer gives more focus on what’s important.
I am Gen-X and the use of 'queer' is something that instantly stops me from reading and watching anything that uses the term. The 'we own the word' is...childish....iand so many of the hetersexual community find it strange (especially from Gen-X ) that its used at all. I refuse to be included under that 'umbrella' term and I will not refer to anyone using that term. I hate the word. Gen-X looked not to be stuck with labels but the younger generations seem to love and be obsessed in having labels even to the point of labelling 'heterosexual' people. I don't agree with bringing LBGTQ....under one political group either. I have very little in common with the politica of those who label themselves 'queer'. It is confrontational, ignorant in some parts, there is no debate or willingness to listen to another point of few. The flag is a mess now... it was meant to show a apectrum of people but the obsessiom with labels has made the flag a confusing mass of colours to the eye.
@@donabaypro6782, respectfully, my comment was about life in the 80s and 90s, about a movement that started as the “Gay Movement” or “Gay Rights Movement” and grew to become the Lesbian, Gay, and Bisexual Equal Rights movement. Adding the Lesbian and Bi didn’t dehumanize the movement. It did the opposite: it made us very, very human. Queer, in that era, was a word used to -dehumanize- us. It was there to marginalize us. To see us as wrong, other, and evil. While today “Queer” has come to essentially mean “not straight”, decades ago it was a slur mainly used against gay men (lesbians less so.) To use queer to refer to gay men in 80s and 90s is oft-putting. While I understand that today Queer covers a vast man groups, covers more than sexual orientation, is very much a community you opt into, Queer just wasn’t that back then. I still cringe at its use. No matter how positive a connotation it has today, I will always cringe at its use.
@@donabaypro6782 It absolutely was not a more polite term then. What rock did you crawl out from? You have no idea how offensive you are. Queer was and is a slur, it was never used towards gay men as a polite term.. I don't need to be included with anyone else nor should we, we are gay men. Period, All Stop.
@@donabaypro6782 who the hell are you to tell us Gen Xer’s that we have to embrace a word that was used to break our spirits as young gay men? We had to grow up with people who hated us calling us queer and now we have the younger gays forcing that ugly word upon us. Show us the respect that we deserve.
Another great Gen X movie, is Pride, it focusses on Lesbian and Gay community’s struggles and rights around the start of the HIV/AIDS epidemic and their support of the miner’s strike in Britain. It’s based on true events. It also starring Andrew Scott.
Being in the UK we only got this in January and it’s the best film I’ve seen in years. I may be peak millennial (I was born in 1987) but as a queer writer whose parents are also dead it was almost machine tooled to get to me and it did. There’s so much of my life my parents don’t know about, my mum died when I was 22 and my dad a week before my 25th birthday (excellent timing), not only coming out to them as bisexual and non-binary, which sadly would not have gone down that well. But also things like meeting my partner or our nieces, I barely had time to know them as an adult my last memories of them are as someone who was barely out of their teens and still had a similar attitude. We didn’t always get on, but I would loved to have known them as an adult
It was a very good film. I’m a gay gen x. I was extremely extremely lucky all the stars aligned for me…while my mom and some friends always suspected it, I honestly had no idea I was gay until about 21-22yrs old y2k (Ignorance is bliss). By that time gayness was starting to become socially acceptable so I never had to experience that polarizing feeling. But films like the ones about stonewall made me realize just how grateful we have to be to gay baby boomers and older genxrs
If you wanna know what it was like for us here in Texas, rewatch Brokeback Mountain. It is 100% spot on. Even the daughter at the end looks just like my sister. Alma, Jr was born smack in between her and me - 1964 - so we’re almost the exact same age. She even married a roughneck just like her.
If you resonated with this film, The Great Believers by Rebecca Makkai is a beautiful and emotional book that will take you down some of the same roads, and leave you crying at the end with a not-dissimilar mix of relief and sadness. One of the triumphs of this film is that we close one plotline with beautiful positive change, and then we understand that the second plotline has already ended... In a different direction. It's bitter and beautiful. How can we help others if we cannot heal ourselves?
I think the true in between group is the xennials . We were truly one foot in each side. Experience was one that understood and experienced gen x and also ushered in millennials culture. Thinking back it feels so strange and surreal now .
I found the film hauntingly beautiful. It did cause me emotional angst but it was felt so deeply in me that I know it changed some things inside of me. Realizing that it was all in his head and basically he was still alone, he had gone on a mental journey that was cathartic for him. I loved it and found it unsettling. But that is what cinema ought to do, in my opinion. I thank all who had a hand in it. I am a baby boomer.
Thank you for this. I love the book Strangers and didn't know until now that All of Us Strangers was an adaptation of it. I am looking forward to watching it.
Another book that explores the generational divides during this period is "Out of the Shadows: Reimagining Gay Men's Lives " by Walt Odets. (Not the "Out of the Shadows" title about sex addiction by another author.) Odets also makes these distinctions about the way the AIDS crisis has affected the different cohorts, and explores the social psychologies of each.
I am currently reading All of Us Strangers. Your video was the impetus and brought back memories of my adolescence as a Gen Xer. Being gay was social suicide at my high school. I think of a few classmates who deserved to be treated better.
As an older millennial, I wanted to like the film but couldnt connect. I found too many character shortcomings that just enraged me. Im over being sad, and it just pisses me off that life for us had to be like that. Maybe in that sense, the film was effective and impactful.
Life for us GenXers was filled with trauma. We didnt have the internet and rarely were we to ever see anyone on tv that was gay and if they were they were unlikable or dying of aids. It was incredibly lonely.
As a gay Gen X man, born in 1973, I did indeed come of age at the height of the AIDS epidemic here in North America. But I grew up in a small Canadian town far from the bright lights of the big city and whilst I knew I was gay. I honestly didn't think of AIDS as something applying to me. It was tragic and horrible and one of the reasons I will hate Ronald Reagan till the day I die, but I was 17 when the 80's ended and still very much in the closet (or so I thought) and it would not be till I discovered the internet and Furry culture that my sexuality got expressed in any meaningful way, abd that wasnt until 1993 or so, and obviously you can't get AIDS from cybersex, so I still was not particularly worried on a person level. Eventually, I fell into a deep depression and became the urban hermit that I still am today at age 50. And thankfully, you can't get AIDS from gay furry porn. I'm a very lonely man (sigh) but I have never really worried about AIDS, even when I should have. I think when I lived in Silicon Valley and um, got around in the furry community there, I just assume that we were all too geeky to get AIDS. :P Not that I did
Ever since I came across "millennial’s parental apology fantasy", I've thought it was myopic. If you read any Ray Bradbury story involving children (particularly "The Veldt"), it's obvious he was tormented as a child. He might have wanted an apology. But considering the times he wrote in, his stories could be called "greatest generation parental revenge fantasy" and I don't think he was alone in this.
I will definitely watch this movie. For me the worst part about being a Gen X is that we were born living in a anti gay environment, further shunned during the HIV period and now at present date the total opposite. I mean its good, but the whole roller coaster ride of it all has resulted in some mental issues and left me bitter sweet all in all.
As a trans and gay 19 year old man I may not have lived the fear and stigma of the AIDS crisis but the movie was really healing for me. From my broken relationship with my parents and my constant pain, I watched the whole movie in tears, not even processing why it was affecting me so much. I see myself so much in Adam, because even if I haven't lived those crisis I've experienced first-hand the consequences of them. The bullying, the assault, the rejection, the fear, not only from others, but from myself too. All the pain, the internalised hate and fear that wouldn't let me exist peacefully, I still struggle with it a lot. For me this movie was healing in ways I can't even start to describe, finally seeing what's going on in my life reflected through someone else's
Sorry, but "growing up in the 80's and 90's" is not in-between - by your own rough-age-ranges given earlier, that's millennial, my gen, that are at the beginnings of general acceptance (I was born about 2/3 of the way through 1979, and its during my teenage years that acceptance grows and seems to accelerate - by my first year of college it was no-brainer to me to come out because I couldn't even imagine another way even though I was straight passing - AOL helped wit some of that). Gen X is a "gown up in the 70's and 80's" thing, and millennialism "80's and 90's". If you were a teenager for the 90's, you're millennial. Generation Theory is mostly stupid, but it's not helped if you cannot keep your own somewhat-off date ranged consistent in the video. I guess I am early Millennial so Ic an speak to this Gen X feeling somewhat in a very abstract sense, but we also need to consider WHERE someone lives. I grew up and live in the shadow of NYC (suburbs, Long Island) and there has been gay bars and Fire Island for even decades before I was born. I imagine someone born my same year growing up somewhere else may have less automatic feelings of "well, of course things will be better after school" or whatever, unless they did college in what now gets called a "woke location". hell, even right now, if you not born in a good place wrt to this stuff, your not going to line up well with the stereotype of what its like to be gay college kid today vs 20 years ago vsv 40 years ago.
Just remember. We were also all probably pretty obnoxious. My healing came when I retraced me bullying and remembered it started when I was really snotty to a classmate that was just being nice on the first day of school.
Two things to add (Gen-X gay dude here): 1) Depending where you’re from, “queer” is not a popular term. I would never ever use it - it was deeply offensive and hurled as a slur. It may be popular with activists and newer generations but to me it’s outside my vocabulary. 2) In my opinion, Gen-Xers are a hardier lot who aren’t as addicted to the victim identity. We persevered in the face of a lot of negative stuff, but we’re still human beings, and none of it defines who we fundamentally are. My personality is my identity, not the various labels that could be applied to me. 3) The gays who died of AIDS will never be forgotten. They suffered so much. What an incalculable loss to us all.
I just have one criticism about this video and that is: It wasn't just Millennials that took to the internet to share their stories. The early days of Yahoo! saw people from the Silent Generation on up to Millennials sharing stories about wars (WW2, Korea and Vietnam), HIV Pandemic, and so forth. These personal narratives were fantastic but lost when Verizon purchased Yahoo! then systematically deleted the records of our past.
I needed to pause at 10:00. I really wanted to watch the rest of the video but hearing “queer” being said over again ad nauseam sounds like someone shouting the F-slur at me. Oh wait, it is just like that! When I was coming to terms with my reality being a gay man in the early 90’s, the only people using “queer” (aside from the most extreme activists) were straight people adopting equivalent terms to non-binary, furry, pansexual and other affects they could easily wiggle out of. When the backlash against the gay/lesbian population happened from conservative parties in the mid-90s, these “queer” people who clamored to take up space were suddenly no where to be found. They were like the “college lesbians” who married men after school and joined polite society without skipping a beat.
None of us Gen Xers are stuck in the 90s. We fought through the 80s, 90s, and the 00s to make this better world where people can tell us we’re stuck in the 90s.
@@emanuelechierici8339 No conquering has taken place. It is still used today with the same intent. I do not care if its use raises one's profile in whatever ridiculous social cult currently in fashion.
The movie actually has a short bit of dialogue where the two gay characters make conversation about the terms "queer" vs. "gay" and the different connotations they have to their different generations. (Don't really remember that well what they were saying though)
Like most people, you are grossly misinterpreting "Don't Ask Don't Tell." You are missing the crucial piece of policy that pre existed it. Prior to "don't ask don't tell" the official policy of the Department of Defense was simply: "We can discharge you if we find out you're gay. Full stop." In that time of the Lavender Scare, the Government was actively investigating military officers and civilian government employees that were suspected of being gay. So "Don't Ask Don't Tell" was in fact an improvement over that policy in that effectively it put some limits on that policy, in that it meant that the Government was no longer going to investigate your private life to discover whether or not you are gay, and in return, if you are gay, you don't go around disclosing it publicly. That is a key part that has been largely forgotten. Was it "full equality?" No, it wasn't. But given the policy that pre-existed it, "DADT" was in fact an improvement at the time, and at the time it was widely understood to be an improvement over the previous "Government Gay Witch Hunt" policy.
Your commentary is very US-centred - which is odd, considering you're analysing a British film. Personally, I think dividing people along these fake 'generation' lines is extremely unhelpful; human experience blurs and blends. It doesn't shift dramatically when 1963 becomes 1964, for example. Where All Of Us Strangers triumphs is in depicting universal human themes such as feeling misunderstood by our parents, loneliness, examining our past for clues to our present, while seen through the lense of a gay man approaching midlife.
Funny... I started watching the movie as a portrail of me, because the correspondence is quite obvious between the main character and me, and suddenly I realised that the movie is telling a story that reflects typical problems, not my case, not the case of someone particular. It lacks any distinctive marker that makes his experience someone's personal experience and focuses on the typicality. That also backgrounds all aspects of life that makes our experiences personal and that makes us escape the generational trauma. I left the movie with the feeling that the movie was about other people, despite the fact that I fit the age, profile, detachment from my parent's family, bigcity isolation, etc., etc.. In other words, the movie does not reflect my experience despite representing what I experience. It's like being described by a sociologist who does not understand what is going on "in the scene" he/she is watching.
I would ask you to consider that those of us born between 1960 to 64 are neither Boomers nor Gen X but , as David Leavitt postulated in a wonderful piece in Esquire in 1986 called The New Lost Generation. I recommend it.
So true. We had a unique position of being right at the start of our "coming out" and becoming sexually active just as the AIDS epidemic burst upon the scene all around us.
@@sophiawilson8696 I think Scott and I both recognize we are defined as Boomers. However, Gen X, Millenials and Gen Z are all defined by 15 year periods while Boomers stretch almost 20. That means most of us at the tail end did not have an experience of growing up in the shadow of WWII. We were also not of age in the crazy 60s. I know most of my peers feel like we can't identify with either Boomers or Gen X. I have seen numerous articles defining a "micro-generation" they either the "Tweeners" or Generation Jones (i.e. keeping up with the Jones').
Did you mean Ian Mckellen(Magneto) in the earliest generation? The picture you have is of Patrick Stewart (Professor X) who's been happily to his 3rd Wife Susan Ozell since 2013. Generation is still correct though.
I was born in 1992, but in rural Nebraska and poor. I didn't have the Internet to much later in life and wasn't able to leave my rural community until my late 20s. I feel that's something that isn't talked about a lot when it comes to generations. I feel like a gen xer bc it took that long for the social changes to happen on the coast to get there. However, with the ubiquitous of the internet after my childhood. I feel like rural America skip the millennial social generation and skipped right to gen zers. In terms or parenting. Of, course we were all impacted equally by the national events of our times like the Iraq war and the towers falling. But, still a bit stunted.
I had a lot more privilege than most gay gen xers. I live in an isolated city in an isolated country( Adelaide, South Australia) and we also had the single best early intervention programs in the world to prevent the spread of hiv/aids. I have only ever had one friend who is hiv +. We had a gay premier during the 70's/80's who overturned a lot of anti gay laws, and he lived openly with his partner. We had free concerts and events all the time in the 80's and 90's, and because the Village People movie bombed everywhere all over the world except for Adelaide, I have been to countless free Village People concerts, they would teach hiv/aids info between songs. It was so much fun. Free condoms were available everywhere, as well as free needle exchanges. I didn't appreciate at the time what my community here in Adelaide had escaped. It is incredibly tragic that this was so preventable everywhere else in the world, but we were in a unique position.
I would like to point out that Gen X is from 1960 to 1980, they are 20 year generations or Saeculum, not 15 as you stated, based on the well researched book by William Strauss and Neil Howe called “The Fourth Turning” ✌️
A lot of people don’t understand the origin. The book is more about understanding the past to prepare for the future. Like it predicted we are in a very trying time now. The good part is in the other epochs democracy and expansion of rights won, at least in the long run. I have hope that America will make the right choice again.
"I would like to point out" that Howe and Strauss aren't the definitive authorities on this matter. 1960 to 1980 is the lesser accepted range at this point.
The military discharged more people under DADT than under the previous outright-ban system. This was increasingly seen as ridiculous during Bush's wars in Afghanistan and Iraq.
The big thing at the time was 1996 and stupid Bob Dole and the Hawaii Supreme Court nightmare, and the Defense of marriage act, and the lopsided vote. It was only the beginning of a very ugly fight. First it started with legislation in various states and then it became constitutional amendments . Fortunately, I lived in New Jersey during the 90s which had antidiscrimination laws so I felt like I was protected. But convincing people that it was necessary it was another story. Gay people tend to weather the storm and worry about with her own experiences like and not that of others. Bill Clinton did try to lift the ban on gays in a military and then didn’t realize what a shit storm that would start. Even internationally. However, it did feel like things were getting better I think, even in a time when the Internet was just beginning to become all over the place. I hear so many things about not being able to relate to Gen X. Why don’t people start to learn to relate to each other
@@eypu999 Two words, one infamous name: RONALD REAGAN. Focusing on Clinton's signing of DOMA was rather peculiar. Clinton himself acknowledged it was a terrible compromise that he still regrets to this day. Ronald Reagan took his disdain for the lives of all LGBTQ individuals and those who supported them to his cold wet grave. There is no comparison to how atrocious Reagan's actions were. He even showed indifference when hemophiliacs, including young children, began contracting the disease. He stubbornly refused to change his perspective and likely viewed children like Ryan White as collateral damage in his crusade against homosexuality.
As a Gen X-er, realising you were gay as a teenager was terrifying. Not just the social stigma and discrimination, but sex could literally kill you. That fact stunted every gay person of my age emotionally, right during our formative years, and I think what the film captured really well is how isolated and lonely gay Gen X-ers came to be because of how much we feared each other.
When a mate came out before me at school, everyone said 'oh he will end up dead in a gutter ' and I thought my whole life was over, at least in the sense of my sexuality, he didn't end up in the gutter in yje end thankfully. But I never forgot how it was seen as a one way ticket to doom.
@@AndyRossism Sounds like they wanted that to happen.
What are you talking about?
I came of age during the AIDS epidemic, watching so many friends die. You were still children and teenagers.
This movie is not about a specific generations anxiety.
I wasn’t terrified. I was isolated and lonely, but that was also a tremendous catalyst for me, to leave my small town, to adventure and expand my mind and world. I wouldn’t trade it for the current nonsense.
I can see my own past in this comment. Not only did I see the few kids who were out get bullied and ostracized in school, but the stigma of AIDS attached to sex was terrifying. I didn't come out until I was 24, but until then I was very isolated with just a few straight friends. We also have to remember there was no internet, which only added to the isolation and being cutoff from information.
this point fascinates me as someone who's gen z, born in 2000, and is south Asian. i found myself connecting so much with both Andrew Scott's and Paul Mescals character in regard to feeling terrified about my queer identity and how that put me at distance with growing as a person in particular - maintaining connections and emotional assurance. when you realise you're queer and from a south asian culture, you fear for your safety, you imagine the day love will fade from your communities eyes, you become strangers to both the queer and asian cultures. finding yourself in this liminal space of sullen loneliness built on melancholy and fantasies of other lifetimes. i found this movie oddly hopeful, even with the unconventional ending. that how despite all your pain and loneliness, there is still a chance to be vulnerable, to connect, to engage with your pain found in what should have been a loving home and parents whom reflected the ideals of an unkind society.
im fascinated by people, especially those from my own gen z community, that didnt see the intersectionalities of this movie. i am unsure if it is a uniquely immigrant ethnic minority experience, but it is hard to detach yourself from a communities historical trauma, even if you did not live it yourself.
I was born in 2005 and found the movie extremely healing. I spent the whole movie crying, not even knowing why I saw myself in Adrew Scott's character so much until I realised it was because of the fear. The stigma of not being loved because of who you are, all the voices in my head telling me I'm not good enough and it would have been better for me to be straight and "normal". I'm from Spain, which I think explains it a bit, because of how recent Franco's dictatorship ending was when the AIDS crisis started and the country was still adapting to a modern democratic world. Also because of my conservative parents and traumatic childhood, but that's another topic
even though I am a full-on millennial, I cried like a baby even on the bus ride back home after seeing the film in the theatre. I could not have anything else than deep empathy for the main character, maybe due to my own personal experiences. I really liked this movie and I sympathize with all of the Gen X-ers around who have had a really difficult coming out as LGBTQ+
So that’s why I couldn’t relate much to this movie. Being gen z, the whole millennial’s parental apology fantasy, while definitely touching, didn’t connect with me; but reading through the comments, I’m extremely glad times are different and that our queer experiences are dramatically less traumatizing. I wasn’t happy to not relate to a queer movie of this caliber, but I’ve realized I was more fortunate. Thank you for every battle fought towards a better world
The movie is gen X, not gen M, but even as I am an early Gen M (right at the beginning) - me and many of my cohorts don't need a parent apology fantasy. either there never was a need or you got it rather quickly after you came out, relatively speaking, all things considered.
Also, many people your age or younger will never have that such luck and only the fantasy remains.
The wealth of your area, and where that area is, and your race, can have MASSIVE affects on how much you qualify for these generational stereotypes.
Such an intelligent response. X
As a 'older millennial' this resonates with me too. I grew up under section 28 in the UK, I never knew anything about the lgbt+ world until I was already instilled with an inate shame of anything non-heteronormative, and I'm still working to unlearn it.
Snap.
I find myself continually angry thar there's been no apology for section 28 and no real acknowledgement of what it did to us. Instead it's been politely forgotten about
@@peterjermey7235 My late partner was a teacher, and he almost lost his job due to section 28.
A girl he taught said, "AIDS is God's punishment for being gay", he disagreed, then the girl reported him for, "promoting homosexuality in class".
Fortunately his school supported him, and named the girl, so he was able to defend himself. The school wasn't supposed to name who made the complaint, which is why so many teachers facing down section 28 complaints, lost their jobs.
I will never forget my mother standing at the top of the stairs looking down on me and saying "If you get AIDS don't come crying to me". I was15 and it was 1984 and I did not come out for another 7 years incidentally, as BI, which is what I still am. Even worse than gay back then. Every single one of my friends who had AIDS and died was rejected by their families and died alone, or rather with their friends only. I realise now that the deep distrust I have of straight people in general comes from these experiences in my formative years, well, half my life really. We were haunted by the virus and its consequences, it hung over our heads like the sword of Damocles, by the merest of threads. How easily everyone forgets, and in reality straight or mainstream society (and contemporary LGBTQ culture which is youth obsessed) have totally turned the page without accepting that what in reality we faced was a kind of holaucast, and I don't use that word lightly. It was like the virus was doing the work of society, they didn't have to man the gas chambers, all they had to do was applaud and turn their backs. Which is what they did for the most part.
When covid came and "unsafe sex" was replaced by" going to supermarket" my straight friends were horrified. I patronizingly refer them as "republican pandemic virgins"
It was a holocaust and it did what they steered it for: no one remembering it because most of a generation was exterminated.
This. Yes. All of these stories.
I’m so sorry the straight people in your life deeply disappointed and hurt you, but try to understand straight people suffered as well by aids( not as devastating as for gay people for numerous reasons)of course. However as a straight I person lost several relatives including two females from the disease and knew 2 little girls who had aids( one of them I know died)but I sensed there was a refusal to acknowledge that straight people including children also had and died of aids in order to continue the delusion that it was still only a gay disease because no one wanted to deal with it & that was/is a heartbreaking tragedy.
Same here more or less. My mom thought I was contaminated.
Gen X here. I came out to my uncle in the mid 90's and the only thing he said to me was "Don't get AIDS". I didn't tell another family member for over a decade after that.
This film hit me hard, as a Gen X Gay Man who came out in 1993 at 17, I remember that feeling of isolation and fear and sadness. I was luckier than most, my parents were somewhat accepting at the time and friends were understanding. Although I’ve always been out and been with my husband since 1996, I’ve always felt I had to be acceptable, not overt, blend into the background. It took me until 2019 when restarting an old hobby brought me into contact with Millennial and Gen Z LGBTQIA+ people, that I started to understand what I had been repressing about myself. I’m much happier now being queer and myself.
I am a Gen X (born 1975) bisexual who came out in 1993, having met the bisexual I would eventually marry in 1991. I recognize myself in this video essay's analysis of the gen x gay and bisexual experience. I think there's something about this historical context that explains our shared experience of forming long-lasting partnerships early-on. Like, if you found someone who really 'got' and accepted you as a queer person, you dared not let them go because it seemed impossible that you'd ever find anyone else ever that could possibly accept you as a queer, particularly as a bisexual, since you were part of a group being scapegoated for spreading AIDS outside the gay male community. Does that resonate at all with you?
I’m a GenXer and a gay man … and most all my friends from my younger days are dead due to HIV/AIDS and or addiction. It’s pretty lonely these days; there aren’t many of my friends left.
I’m so sorry. I wish things could have been better :(
Same…🎈
Similar
I’m sorry :(
As a Gen X'er who knew I was gay at a very young age, I was told I was never good enough, disgusting & nobody would love me for me. I was sent to therapy to make me Straight & Christian. At times I still feel like being gay is wrong & wanted to change it everyday, Its taken 45 years to start feeling ok with my sexuality & not push partners away to make what my family said about me cone to be true.
I was born in 72. I knew I was gay before AIDS. When all the gay adults started dropping like flies it became seemingly apparent that simply being gay would be a death sentence since there was little to no understanding of what AIDS was. My adolescense was full of grief and despair such that other generations never experienced. And you couldn't talk about it. People feared you could get it from gay people by casual contact. The onset of the AIDS epidemic was tragic for all the families of the ones who died from it and that was where the focus was. No one really considered the trauma happening to the coming of age LGBT teens. Even now, it's a topic that has been completely overlooked.
Given that ALL STDs (including AIDS) effected all Gen'Xers, that it was a whole generation suffered the exact same despair. All of us carried that burden, that is the beatdown of the Silent Generation and Boomers. On the bright side both the Silent Generation and the Boomers fear the monsters, that we Gen X'ers have become, a product of both generation's making.
No I think they actually did consider it because the Christian right made sure that there was absolutely no hope and no help for this. They intentionally made AIDS as horrible and frightening as possible and locked many of us in the closet for much of our lives.
You looking for a person to blame start with Ronald Reagan and keep on going through every Evangelical Christian who is active during that time and since because what happened to us is their fault directly.
I was born in 1971 and my experience was the very same as yours, the first time I heard about it, it felt like a certain death sentence...My mother was a lab tech in the local hospital, one of her coworker was gay and contracted AIDS in 1985, the whole team and his family turned their back on him, she later told me he died alone...
Jodie Foster as a boomer shook me to my core. Not today, Satan.
I haven't seen this yet, but I'm very interested. Some of the things you mentioned in the video are very true. I turned 50 this year, and I've been thinking about my experiences as a young gay man growing up in the 80's and 90's and how that affects my present experience. I sometimes like to think that I moved on, and I live in the present, but there is this undercurrent of feelings from those years that still affects me in ways that I'm only now realizing.
It’s excellent- go see it
come back and tell us what you thought!
You hit so many notes that were 100% accurate and I have not in all my years heard anywhere else. It feels very good to be seen. Thank you.
this is the most incredible, Reflective and meaningful comment section I've ever seen on youtube. The first time anyone ever threw a gay slur at me it was "AIDs Fa@@ot" I was 13 years old. My two cousins, 10 years and 12 years older than me would both die of the disease within the next 5 years. Another post referred to the disease as a sword of Damocles. And they were so correct.
What’s interesting is i understood the film, I cried even, even tho im gen z,
But I live in Saudi so his experience is not strange to me, I’d say his experience was even better which is disheartening when I think about it.
What a great review. I watched the film last night. I was born in 1976, and as I was watching this, I felt like I was back in time again, coming out to parents, confused and alone. The way you analyse this is pretty much spot on, thank you.
I don't know if you'll ever see this, but thank you for making this video. I hope you keep going.
Born in 1979 i was 2 when the AIDS epidemic started. It was there in the background of my entire childhood and teen years.
That was my sex education in school: disease and death and not even just for lgbt people. British soaps were full of HIV storylines at a time when homosexuality was barely touched and a lot of the characters with HIV were straight men or drug addicts.
It's no wonder i ended up asexual through my teens, twenties and even most of my thirties. It's only now in my forties that i can see how trauma impacted the identity i allowed myself in my teens...
I was born in 1965, so the very beginning of Gen X. When I was 18 in 1983, there was no "Queer" community. We were just Gay. Queer was a horrible word to call us back then, so it still sounds weird to my ears when this video keeps talking about the Queer community. I became sexual right when HIV was infecting and killing so many of my fellow gay men. It has totally shaped my sexuality, and I have never been able to fully relax, as the worry is still always there, just underneath, even though I"m on Prep now. I can't shake that fear that carried me for so many years.
Couldn't agree more. I despise the word and many of my Gen-X friends also do. I find it abhorrent and insulting, and yet to say so is anathema.
I can't believe they are calling us "queers" like it's okay. It's maddening. Imagine them normalizing the "n" word. This is crazy.
Also a Gen-X’er and I also absolutely despise the term ‘queer’ for the same reasons you mention. It is hugely offensive IMO
I had a lot of schadenfreude from watching folks die from skeptic behavior during covid that were farmed from the same people who said we misbehaved and deserved AIDS.
You arent alone
lol
There is a reason why so many queer GenX have complex PTSD. I will always remember being in my late teens and going to the funerals of friends and mentors who died from HIV -- at one point two or three every weekend -- and not being able to talk to anyone in my family about it. Then having to watch Moral (sic) Majority (sic) types discuss rounding us all up into concentration camps "for the public good." And now having it all come back with attacks on drag queens and trans people.
Great video! I'm a millennial, but found this movie cathartic, haunting, and deeply real. Loved every moment, and now need therapy...
Same here. In all honesty I'm scheduling a therapist appointment soon. I have some past trauma I keep minimizing but I feel I need to work on. This movie lit a fire in my ass. I don't want to live with any regrets.
It is an extremely well-done film. I''m seeing a lot of fellow Gen-Xers who survived this devastating era in our history asking, 'What now?"
We are slowly learning to tread through these unchartered territories so to reclaim our identities as older gay men having value and purpose. Particularly challenging in a culture which has always worshipped youth and treated the aging gay man as pathetic, pitiful, and predatory.. But we are beginning to discover that our longitude,, wisdom, and life experience truly are our greatest commodities. We are also witnessing a societal change in gay culture where our age, sexuality and masculinity are now sought after and revered. The term 'Daddy' has made a great comeback, as we are now the societal elders we never had, because our own rightful elders were stolen by the plague.. In a span of only a few decades, we lived through the absolute worst and best times to be a gay man in society. We had no politicians fighting for our rights, therefore every presidential vote was always for the lesser of two evils.We mastered survival and endurance to coexist in a world that never hesitated to express how much it hated us. We weren't brave or righteous. We lived each day terrified and running for our lives.
I’ve yet to see this film, but your post perfectly encapsulates my own life experiences thus far. Well done.
Wow! Well, said. I loved your observation about the term "Daddy:" "The term 'Daddy' has made a great comeback, as we are now the societal elders we never had, because our own rightful elders were stolen by the plague."
Now that I'm 50 and well into the "Daddy" stage, all I can do is offer friendship and guidance to younger gay men. I'm not interested in romantic or sexual relationships with them, as I prefer men around my age. I greatly appreciate those who survived and are still with us from the previous generation who suffered the devastation, but I do wonder how much richer my life would've been if I had more of them in my life to learn from.
@@jakejackson8238 Thank you. Every so often I will run into someone from 'back in the day'.. a person whom I didn't even know well, but recognize.. and I always feel a special, kindred affection towards them. I am glad you are here, too!
The predatory things is still, unfortunately, still present with these 30-and-unders whining about age gaps.
@@xBINARYGODx I'm sure it still goes on. It's difficult to compare my experiences (almost 40 years ago) to theirs. But back then, I found the guys my own age far more troublling, duplicitous and untrustworthy than those 10-20 years older than myself. The older guys were always so much more chill and laid back. Plus they actually had homes to retreat to, rather than a parked car behind a building, lol.
I'm a queer Gen Z er but I connect with this film immensely. Not because it's a gay film per se, but because it's the best motion picture expression of love and grief together I've ever seen.
For the record, Sir Patrick Stewart, while an absolutely fantastic ally, is not actually queer. Ian McKellan may have been a better choice.
I thought exactly the same thing when I saw that.
Me, too. Though it was very brave of him to play an openly gay character in “Jeffery” back in the ‘90s. Most straight actors at that time would never consider doing that.
@@stephenmessano1847 The only line I remember from that movie is Stewarts character: "What you need is a relationship... and some new shoes."
'queer' means everyone does it not? Say gay or Bi or instead (you know like we did until 10 years ago). Queer is propositioned as fluid and outside the box - dont be offended when non homosexual attracted people are included then. I mean Emma D'arcy is Just an extremely posh girl with a BF at the end of the day. The fact she is put up as the face of my generation......offensive
This could be on purpose, a joke. Stewart and McKellen are great friends and look kinda similar
It's very hard to explain to other generations exactly what it was like to come of age and live through the Aids epidemic. It was the horror of seeing those you love, those you choose as family dying and being unable to do anything about it. And on top of that having most of society telling you that we deserved it, and it was our punishment for being sinful. It was the cold reality that we didn't even warrant a response from our government, that for them we should just die alone. Unless you lived it, I don't think you can emotionally know the impact it had on us.
not just Gen x, gen z asian gays felt the same. we were born into an age where ppl are telling me that im valid and that im loved from the outside, but constantly rejected because im too young, because im asian, becuase im a bear. the loneliness is real especially seeing that how much people were telling you that you deserve love, but then it never happens, so eventually you just become scared to open up ever again.
A lot of people have a misunderstanding of Don’t Ask Don’t Tell. I was in the Navy when DADT became law. Before DADT they would ask you if you were gay. So you had to lie. If you got caught and told them you knew you were gay before you joined, that was lying under oath. DADT was an improvement, it laid the groundwork for openly serving in the armed forces. The original title was Don’t Ask Don’t Tell Don’t Pursue. That would have made a big change.
I liked your comments. You are well spoken. Good job.
As an Homo X, I can’t testify that it was an absolutely wild time. We definitely are the In Between generation. The polarity of openly stated views on homosexuality were crazy making at best. We all had to find our feet and voice fast, and walk that hard road on the razors edge of history. I’ll never complain about my formative years at that time. It forced me to become as strong as diamond regarding my sexuality, while keeping my feet on the ground, and my head aimed to the clouds. ⛅️
Would Adam be alive today, he'd be over 70, like me. Would Harry be alive, he'd be, perhaps, 50 or so. The 4 characters in the movie, parents + Adam + Henry are dead from the beginning, just like the characters in "The Others" were all dead, as well as all characters were dead in "Huis Clo", by Jean Paul Sartre. Neither of them had solved out important problems during their life times, the parents had left Adam too young on his own, they were drunk when they crashed their car, Adam had lived the dramatic 80's and 90's without love, alone and with Aids all around, Adam's ill from the beginning of the film, than he dies in the club after snorting some drug, Harry dies in his room from alcohol and drugs, Adam finds him already dead and rotten, then he meets his ghost outside the bedroom and convinces him that everything's fine and they hug each other on the bed and turned into light and become part of the universe as light, as stars, and "the Power of Love" sings as well as "You were always on my Mind", House Martins and Fine Young cAnnibals had sung before. The movie's an allegory of gay men's lives in the 80's and 90's, bullying, hiding, fear, lack of love and Aids, as well as in the 21st century where there's still prejudice against homosexuality. In the end death levels up every thing, parents leave the scene in peace with their son, and the son finally understands that his parents had always loved him, although they didn't come into his room when he was crying; Adam finds love and companionship for the whole eternity, no more pain, no more loneliness, no more life. Somehow "All of us strangers" has a happier ending than "Weekend" had, I reckon! Loved the film, it's a piece of art in itself. Andrew Haigh's a very intelligent man, he knows about us, about our lives, he knows how to choose his actors and his stories, it's a great story performed by wonderful people, all part of the Human Condition!
I feel that the death of his parents age 12 was symbolic of the death of that relationship at puberty and moving into a complicated, lonely world where you don't know how to connect with the people around you, or perhaps more importantly how they will connect with you. And that's symbolised by the two of them living in that empty building. The closest they come to interacting with the world is anonymously riding the Tube. And that's what we GenXs grew up with and it speaks to us. Perhaps we're the "Don't ask don't tell" generation, the active persecution and the age of actual legal penalties had ended, but the deal is society will leave us alone if we stay in the closet )or the big closet of the ghetto). And the film captures the lonliness that comes from that social contract. But I guess also Paul Mescal's Harry must be a Gen Z (Millennial?) and he has all the same wounds too and self-medicates the depression with drugs and alcohol. So in that sense it's trying to say its something that's not uniquely a GenX experience.
I think the differences between Adam (Gen X) and Harry's (Millennial) experience are presented masterfully and with great poignancy. We hear Harry describe his parents as accepting of his sexuality when he came out, whereas we see Adam's parents' (socially contextualised and partly informed by AIDS) homophobia.
Adam specifically references that he has an internalised terror of intimacy because to have sex "you know, I could die" is a very literal terror.
Harry's line that (I'm paraphrasing) "I've always felt like an outsider in my family, like I didn't belong; being queer just gave a name to that feeling". It's subtle and nuanced and speaks to loneliness and isolation that are key themes of the film. The Gen X experience was formed by specific social factors, but there is a darkness that exists in being Other, a profound loneliness, and therein lies what connects Harry and Adam. To a significant extent this is shared because of their sexuality, and that whilst Harry's family (superficially at least) accepted him when he came out, there remains a shadow of him being Other, the Outsider, that one 'on the edge' but rather than being reviled or hated, he is... forgotten, and who was not found, not thought about, not worried for, not cared about, not invested in, ultimately not loved.
So it is a key theme of love and the profound isolation in the absence of love. Harry's parents seem unable to 'hold him in mind' and though on the surface he was born in more priviledged times in terms of queer history, his story is far from rosy. Hence his relationship with drugs an alcohol. Harry's isolation may or may not be related to his sexuality, but it is exacerbated by it. His family's homophobia manifests differently, not in an overt toxicity but in a kind of abandonment.
We hear his rage and frustration of (again, paraphrasing), "them out there, living life (in the City) and we're stuck here." He is unable to access the full life, love and affection with his family, his siblings, to be included. Despite the so called more enlightened times, he is denied a sense of belonging. Adam's isolation and withdrawl is to some extent better tolerated, perhaps because it is better practised. He was paralysed by the social context in which he grew up and then stymied by the death of his parents who perhaps could have loved him (their only child), where Harry was tragically forgotten, faded away (his siblings living a more heteronormative life).
To some extent Harry has accustomed to emotional deprivation, and there's a big piece here about internalised shame. For Harry there is a roaring injustice, that he 'supposedly' lives in more enlightened times, and yet is still starving, craving, yearning, desperate to be seen and loved.
Time and space: Being gay in Netherlands was very much different than being gay in the USA, the DSM IV which was published in 1994 has done a lot for our community. A thing many people seem to forget. It was no longer labeled a (mental) illness. Cognitive biases.... US & UK fell behind many European LGBTI+ equality laws. Netherlands & Denmark where trail blaizers 2001 & 2000.
Then 9/11 happened!
But everything is according to the dominant American/English narrations, as if the world only revolved around yours.
And the changes in other places didn't matter, our successes and tactics, logics etc. don't really matter; American superiority.
If I look at our progresses which are being undermind at the moment because of the USA's anti-LGBT+ crap, it is frustrating and sad.
US media and social media, it influenced, and influences the lesser dominant western cultures. Extreme right rose in USA, EU followed.
As if gay rights only began in 1969 with the Stonewall riots.
1920 Berlin was the Gay capital of Europe. Then Nazi-ism struck.
Similar in the USA after 2015 what was thought to be the peak of LGBTI+ rights/gay rights in the USA; National Theocracy is hitting the US in very similar ways with stochastic terrorism etc.
Thank you for sharing this. The Gay GenX experience was very well explained in this essay. I could definitely identify my personal experiences in here.
As a (younger) Millenial, I believe that the queer media we had during our upbringing was mostly not romantic, rather sexual or AIDS related. So it is still embedded in us. And, personally, what got to me was the loneliness that was so prominent and profound, that plagues some of us too. Even nowadays.
X. "lingering trauma..." i was talking one night in the late 90s with a bartender at Gio's. he had experienced well over 450 men and women enter his life and affect him. these people meant things to him, his psyche, his spirit. All dead, AIDS. We talked about how we knew - often times months, even a few years after - of their deaths. there we were talking quietly at the end of the night in a gay bar at the tailing of the 1990s, right when it was known Aids - for many - could be slowed if not arrested. sooner or later it would kill, but there would be time to live before dying. some handled the drug cocktails exceptionally well and are still alive.
Asher mentioned that no one seems to have noticed our grouping as a generation of people in all of it, namely, no studies had been undertaken asking what does it do to someone to have hundreds of people come into ayour life, become important to a person, only to have them snuff out quickly or without warning.
there was something else there as we talked and had been there all along and still with us, the X generation, as we're called by others. A numbness, almost a shell-shock, soldiers who survived something awful and now trudging along a road to their next engagement. no heroes or villains, just people "getting on with it".
A generation of gay men before Gen X were dying over and over. I can't explain to the younger generations the intense fear and profound sadness. A righteous anger sustained our hope.
Trixie Mattel and Katya described Heartstopper as "Retro active healing for 3 or 4 generations of gay people." That's 1000% right. I think attitudes towards LGBTQ+ people changed in Britain in the early 1990's because an entire generation of Gen Xers was shagging anything that moved while off their face on E , and at the same time Freddie Mercury died. We all saw Queen at Live Aid and we all knew we had lost someone genuinely special.
I have been looking at gay loneliness, but also boarding school survivor syndrome symptoms - the latter is often connected with leaving home too early and issues of abandonment and parental neglect. Loneliness has been a feature of my life and how to deal with it. But of course you never really properly do. I was living in London and met someone from France. We moved there thinking it would be temporary. Then came Brexit, Covid. Ended up staying as we wanted to keep my French residency. But in the end I think leaving London was the right move. I don't know for sure, but I was always worried about ageing there,. There is no gay life near here in Provence where I am, but we have friends and each other. What we are probably missing is perhaps our own children and family, but I think we are too old to act as responsible parents even if we came to some arrangement.
I see a few comments from my contemporaries objecting to the use of the term "queer." I get it. I felt that, too. I also felt offended by the addition of all those other letters. It seemed ridiculous.
But I changed my mind. I didn't understand the usage of "queer." Then I watched my niece, at 14, announce she was queer at Christmas dinner so casually it shocked me. She was so matter of fact about it; there was no drama, no scene, it just came and went with very little comment from anyone. That felt alien to me. I remembered being outed at 17 in 1989 - the recrimination, the disappointment, the finality, the rejection, and the trauma.
And here was this child just tossing it out there like it was a discussion of the weather. We had to fight for "Gay," it cost us to own it and own ourselves. To us that word means defiance to everyone who tried to diminish us.
And these kids, they've taken gay and lesbian, bi, trans, and all the rest and made them just individual possibilities under the term "queer." They took "queer" and made a big, diverse, and inclusive family that never knew the trauma that made that possible.
In the end, isn't that what we were fighting for all along?
Thank you for sharing this anecdote because, yes, it is what I’ve wanted 💜
I'm sorry, but I don't agree with what made you change your mind: The concept of "queerness" seems to cater to the ideal of "fluidity" in order to make the world more inclusive: Everyone can sleep with everyone - everyone fluid/pansexual - thus: No more rejection, no more feelings to get hurt. This has already divided the gay community. The modern ones claim one should be able to go on calling oneself "gay" although one has discovered, by experimenting - which is being hyped - that you want to sleep with a woman now and then. It is self-evident that they CAN sleep with women now and then, or every day, but they will have to call themselves bisexual or I don't know what - but not gay. They could also call themselves "queer" which shows that this term is an umbrella term that won't be useful for specifically gay needs. If the concept of "it would be best if we were all fluid/queer, because this would be really inclusive" - prevails, what will be the consequences for gay people?
Not gay gen xer. It’s worth mentioning that the term Queer was VERY much used as an offensive term my teenage years. Most of my peers grew up saying homosexual. Being called gay was also used offensively. And for us straight kids the AIDS crisis especially for teenage girls was used to scare us to not have sex. My middle school health class was intense 😱
Some points seem a little nebulous/diluted as “queer” seems to be substituted for “gay/homosexual”, and then also used as a catch-all term to describe a broader group of disparate orientations and identities. Gay men appear to be the focus of the majority of these references. Don’t be afraid to make that distinction when necessary. I feel that contextually it’s also worthwhile noting that “queer” was very much a pejorative for Gen X as they reached adulthood, and beyond in older individuals.
I'm a gay man, I'm not "queer" anything and I hate that word being used to describe me. You get told once IRL, if you say it again I can't be held accountable what my fist does and where it goes.
I am an Gen Xer and I absolutely hate the word “queer” and will never accept it.
@@michaeltherrien6814I understand your position and to each their own with what labels you do/do not gravitate towards, but I think for us younger generation of gay people, along with the term being used as a statement of reclamation, it allows for a degree of concurrent unity between different identities whilst granting space for those who might be more fluid on the spectrum of sexuality. Don’t get me wrong, gays, lesbians, bisexuals, and those under the trans umbrellas exist and those labels are valid and important; but I perceive our generations mindset of not allowing such labels to define us and allowing ourselves/others to explore ourselves in regards to our individual sexuality/gender is why I think so many younger queer people identify with that more broad term. Conversely, I’ve had trouble identifying with the word “gay” for a long time due to how categorizing and pejorative it sounded, especially during my younger years where its snarky use was essentially a substitute for f*ggot (a word I was still called and have had used towards me to this day). Idk, just some perspective I thought I’d add as a Gen Z gay person!
@@ujustgotslayedAs a borderline boomer/Gen-Xer (Gen Jones), I feel the similarly. The term queer encompasses a lot of identities and intersectionalities that tbh can be divisive. Part of the issue may be that a member of one faction doesn’t necessarily support another, and I understand why some of those who were harmed by bigots who used the term as a pejorative don’t want it used now. Reclaiming a word doesn’t work for everyone. For me, it encompasses a larger community that has more strength in numbers. I respect those who don’t feel the same and use whatever term they prefer. I love all y’all.
As I'm a native Texan, you can probably understand how I feel about it since they actually made a specific saying for it.
The best review , helping me understand the strong emotional reaction I had to this film .
Thankyou
The oddest thing I look back on, the thing I didn't quite grasp then, but am haunted by now...is the absence of the generation ahead of mine in the bar scene when I came out. Not quite Gen X, not quite Boomers...the people 5-10 years older weren't seen much when I came out. While the 18-25 yr olds partied, and the 40-70 yr olds hung about...there was amazingly little presence for 25-30 somethings. It wasn't until I'd been out for awhile and a few of my friends began to sicken and die that I realized fully and completely that the age group just ahead of us were home sick or dead. Our lives went from dance floors and raves to hospitals and funerals. More of us survived as monogamy became normative, and more legally plausible (as sanctions and legal bias against gay couples receded), but with it came a lot of grief and survivors guilt. I am profoundly grateful that the average gay 20 year old hasn't attended 3 or 4 funerals for his peers, and would only be getting started at that point. It IS better. But...i look back and realize that what we experienced was deeply abnormal and extremely scarring. I didn't know another world until it seemingly ended when the drugs became better. HIV is a pill a day issue now...not a death sentence...but I hope another generation never knows the difference.
All I know is that we were less accepted, less happy, and less "represented", but our music was much, much better. Coincidence? I think not.
True, but neither of my parents could really and truly talk to me, and I felt deeply alone.
is it much much better? I think the 90's is arguably the most stellar decade for music, but I mean, a lot of its existence is not because of Gen X - only people signed, older people produced, older people helped write alot of that stuff. Its still a pretty boomerish world for music at that point.
@@xBINARYGODx That's probably true, but there were some gay/queer alternative / indie bands that were very DIY , like Ani DiFranco, The Pansy Division, MAN ON MAN, etc. who were rebellious against the previous boomer generation's tendency to put people and artists into categories.
I'm so grateful for the activists of the Boomer and Gen X generations that gave us Millennials a torch to carry and pass to Gens Z and Alpha. I'm so proud of these younger queer people who are out there trying, learning, making mistakes, demanding better, and doing all the things that humans fighting for a better world do.
I was born in 1963 and so I am deeply deeply moved by being honored by such well chosen, lovely words, thank you so much!! There is one thing I would like to point out to, kindly asking you to not get me wrong - it's just to avoid misunderstandings regarding one certain item: The terms "gay" and "queer" used to be synonyms for a long time. Today, they refer to too different things: "queer" (as an umbrella term) comprises many different sexualities, for example "gay" or "asexual" etc. So OK - umbrella terms exist - why not queer? One could leave it at this but: There is another, much bigger problem: The concept of "queerness" seems to cater to the ideal of "fluidity" in order to make the world more inclusive: Everyone can sleep with everyone - everyone fluid/pansexual - thus: No more rejection, no more feelings to get hurt. If this concept of "it would be great, if everyone were pan" prevails, what will be the future of homosexuality/gayness?
@@julischka_1-5-9 thanks for your thoughtful response. I don't see the word "queer" as a threat to gayness, personally. I understand it as interlinking different sexual and gender variances because of both their commonalities of lived experience under patriarchy and the inherent need for solidarity among them historically. There are material differences between the lives of gay men and lesbian women or between trans bisexuals and cis asexuals, for example, but all of us are looking to live in a world where there is freedom and safety for people. Some folks are more willing to do the work it's gonna take to get there, but all of us deserve to live in that world.
Sexual freedom isn't the same as making sex as casual or obligatory as shaking hands. It's about self-determination, which includes people who want to hook up anonymously, people who want a passionate partner for life, people who never want sex and meet their social needs in different ways, and people who occupy different places on that grid at different times in their lives.
Fluidity is not an enemy or even a rival of a static placement within queerness as I understand it, but simply a different life experience. I find myself wondering if the idea of "queer" catering to fluidity is a reflection of talking points earlier in our history about being gay not being a choice. The old "why would I choose this?" as a reason to grant gay people rights. While it's true that many of us discover our gay feelings and identities with pain and fear, something we did not choose, I don't believe that should be the center of our liberation. I didn't choose to be gay, but I love myself enough to say that I would not choose to be straight if I were given the option. Wouldn't question it for a second. That freedom is the goal: moving from "we deserve freedom and safety because we're stuck with this" to "EVERYONE deserves freedom (including the freedom to abstain entirely), and I do not care if it's a choice!"
@@yourreward Regarding "[...] interlinking different sexual and gender variances because of both their commonalities of lived experience [...]." yes, I agree - I said that in other, less clear, words, so:
For some time, there have been no problems with gays being just one of several groups finding shelter under the umbrella called "queer".
But recently, there have been changes: One of the big ACHIEVMENTS of the gay emancipation fight you thanked "my" generation for is: In general, people stopped looking upon us as "not real men" (for being unable to sleep with women). We were finally recognized as real men, in spite of lacking one crucial ability ... according to "classic" standards. This had been a great success.
But now: It seems like we were facing a renaissance of the "who is the most masculine gay"-competition (enhanced by the gay adult industry - that is in the position to set new general standards). It's like there were a gentle (maybe sometimes less gentle) pressure exerted to push "simply" gay men towards sleeping with women:
"You haven't even tried yet, how should you know you really can't?"
These were the words often used, back in the day, to prove that gay men's deepest inner feelings weren't worth a dime - which was deeply traumatizing: The message was (back then): "The way you are, you're not OK!"
Then, it was getting better and better.
Today, however, I think, we are at a turning point, i.e.: I think I can observe those ancient processes re-emerging - even in interviews (see youtube demystifying) - where people of the adult indstry say (I'm paraphrasing, almost literally, though): "Sleeping with a woman was so hard, I struggled ... but finally I liked it and now I'm doing it all the time on camera, but I'm still gay." This is right what conversion therapy fans (no friends of the gay emancipation movement) have wanted to hear all along. And now, they even received it with exactly the combination of elements they fancy: A) first the struggle + B) now he likes it ==> So they can triumph saying "being gay is a CHOICE, you CAN change, if you just try hard enough."
Another of my criticisms regarding the concept of "queer": Will people always distinguish properly between "In this precise context, it makes sense to use the umbrella term" and "In this context I cannot use the umbrella term, it would be too confusing"? I don't think so. So chances are that the term "queer" will gradually replace the words "gay" (and "asexual" and "lesbian" etc.) in general. But it will not be just a word being eclipsed, but also the humans being referred to by this word.
The reason for me being so sceptical is: When I, as a young man, had finally found somebody I could talk to about my gayness, I felt so welcome and relieved because the other guy was exactly like me (simply gay), I didn't have to JUSTIFY myself ... How soothing. If I had found out, that he was also sleeping with women (later on, it happened to me twice), the feelings of inferiority would have killed me: "Look at him, one of the good gays, whereas ... I ... ". Meanwhile, I've learned that many gays (OK, my age) confirm what I've just described. So my worries refer to: If TODAY an individual in coming-out-gay-distress applies to somebody they think they can rely on, but then have to learn that there has been a change of attitude, i.e. that being gay in the classic way nowadays is, maybe, frowned at (again...), what will happen to those people?
Summary: Will the queer umbrella be able to maintain the distinct groups that unite under the umbrella as the individual groups they have always been or will there rather be a diluting of the formerly individual sexualities towards: everybody fluid/pan?
Thank you for putting my feelings about this film so eloquently into words.
This film was life changing for me. It was so haunting, so tender. I nagged all of my friends (gay, 40’s) to watch it and every single one cried uncontrollably to certain points in the film. It’s wonderful and amazing. I can cry on demand when thinking about the film, it lodged so deeply into my emotional landscape. Yet it hasn’t been honoured. It’s gay, so the USA would never honour it. Instead they throw Oscar’s at bizarre rubbish like Poor Things!
Born in 70, we were the freakiest generation as we had to use fetishes and alternatives to sex in order to have sexual experiences. Rubber, fists, gunge, bdsm became normalised as the usual slot a tab b was death and we still craved a sex experience. There was a gen x anger towards being reduced to isolated cat ladies and the cleanup crew for Generation Disco.
True, but Generation Disco paid the ultimate price. And even before HIV it was not easy for them. And it saddens me that the younger (PrEP)generation have gone back to that behaviour. I don't blame anyone, because ultimately it is caused by marginalisation and social issues.
I'm on the younger side of Gen X. Do I want to know what "gunge" is?
I’m going to be another one of those voices that notes using “queer” for “gay” is oft-putting, a generational difference that exemplifies the gay trauma of Gen-Xers like me.
In the 80s and 90s, the thing to remember is that ‘queer’ didn’t refer to anyone who isn’t straight. It referred pretty specifically and very nastily to gay and bisexual men.
I know that today words like ‘queer’ and ‘f-g-t’ have been repurposed and tamed. But the negative meaning is still there. It’s as if you used f-g-t all the way through. It punches that hard. While GenX used queer, it was used at the bleeding edge of anger. Queer Nation used queer to indict the homophobic society both content to let gay men die and active in rolling back the legal victories we’d made.
Your video is great. I’m moved that you are contemplating what life was like for those of us who came of age after the promise of Stonewall and during the darkness of AIDS, Don’t Ask Don’t Tell, and DOMA. Thank you for that. To understand the rest of our experience, you need to grasp how problematic (and traumatic) using “queer” to refer to so many of us remains.
I respectfully disagree. The term LGBTQ and more letters are exclusive not inclusive. It is very hard to pronounce. Queer is inclusive and easy to pronounce. Please look up Georg Carlin’s from Shell Shock to PTSD. It explains how adding more syllables dehumanizes the situation. Queer was the more polite term than. Any word can be used as bad or good. I have seen/heard LGBT used very hatefully. I am also Gen X, understand your prospective. Another problem is people focus more on LGBT than what comes after it. What is after is what’s important. Saying queer gives more focus on what’s important.
I am Gen-X and the use of 'queer' is something that instantly stops me from reading and watching anything that uses the term. The 'we own the word' is...childish....iand so many of the hetersexual community find it strange (especially from Gen-X ) that its used at all. I refuse to be included under that 'umbrella' term and I will not refer to anyone using that term. I hate the word. Gen-X looked not to be stuck with labels but the younger generations seem to love and be obsessed in having labels even to the point of labelling 'heterosexual' people. I don't agree with bringing LBGTQ....under one political group either. I have very little in common with the politica of those who label themselves 'queer'. It is confrontational, ignorant in some parts, there is no debate or willingness to listen to another point of few. The flag is a mess now... it was meant to show a apectrum of people but the obsessiom with labels has made the flag a confusing mass of colours to the eye.
@@donabaypro6782, respectfully, my comment was about life in the 80s and 90s, about a movement that started as the “Gay Movement” or “Gay Rights Movement” and grew to become the Lesbian, Gay, and Bisexual Equal Rights movement. Adding the Lesbian and Bi didn’t dehumanize the movement. It did the opposite: it made us very, very human.
Queer, in that era, was a word used to -dehumanize- us. It was there to marginalize us. To see us as wrong, other, and evil. While today “Queer” has come to essentially mean “not straight”, decades ago it was a slur mainly used against gay men (lesbians less so.)
To use queer to refer to gay men in 80s and 90s is oft-putting. While I understand that today Queer covers a vast man groups, covers more than sexual orientation, is very much a community you opt into, Queer just wasn’t that back then. I still cringe at its use. No matter how positive a connotation it has today, I will always cringe at its use.
@@donabaypro6782 It absolutely was not a more polite term then. What rock did you crawl out from? You have no idea how offensive you are. Queer was and is a slur, it was never used towards gay men as a polite term.. I don't need to be included with anyone else nor should we, we are gay men. Period, All Stop.
@@donabaypro6782 who the hell are you to tell us Gen Xer’s that we have to embrace a word that was used to break our spirits as young gay men? We had to grow up with people who hated us calling us queer and now we have the younger gays forcing that ugly word upon us. Show us the respect that we deserve.
It’s great to see this finally being addressed. The only place I have seen this discussed is the Leather community.
Thank you for such a wonderful and deep review.
Another great Gen X movie, is Pride, it focusses on Lesbian and Gay community’s struggles and rights around the start of the HIV/AIDS epidemic and their support of the miner’s strike in Britain. It’s based on true events. It also starring Andrew Scott.
Who would have thought that without Arthur Scargill we wouldn't have gay marriage. Now there's a historical irony for you!
Good call on your recommendation for the 2014 movie: 'Pride'.
Being in the UK we only got this in January and it’s the best film I’ve seen in years. I may be peak millennial (I was born in 1987) but as a queer writer whose parents are also dead it was almost machine tooled to get to me and it did. There’s so much of my life my parents don’t know about, my mum died when I was 22 and my dad a week before my 25th birthday (excellent timing), not only coming out to them as bisexual and non-binary, which sadly would not have gone down that well. But also things like meeting my partner or our nieces, I barely had time to know them as an adult my last memories of them are as someone who was barely out of their teens and still had a similar attitude. We didn’t always get on, but I would loved to have known them as an adult
It was a very good film. I’m a gay gen x. I was extremely extremely lucky all the stars aligned for me…while my mom and some friends always suspected it, I honestly had no idea I was gay until about 21-22yrs old y2k (Ignorance is bliss). By that time gayness was starting to become socially acceptable so I never had to experience that polarizing feeling. But films like the ones about stonewall made me realize just how grateful we have to be to gay baby boomers and older genxrs
If you wanna know what it was like for us here in Texas, rewatch Brokeback Mountain. It is 100% spot on. Even the daughter at the end looks just like my sister. Alma, Jr was born smack in between her and me - 1964 - so we’re almost the exact same age. She even married a roughneck just like her.
If you resonated with this film, The Great Believers by Rebecca Makkai is a beautiful and emotional book that will take you down some of the same roads, and leave you crying at the end with a not-dissimilar mix of relief and sadness.
One of the triumphs of this film is that we close one plotline with beautiful positive change, and then we understand that the second plotline has already ended... In a different direction. It's bitter and beautiful.
How can we help others if we cannot heal ourselves?
I think the true in between group is the xennials . We were truly one foot in each side. Experience was one that understood and experienced gen x and also ushered in millennials culture. Thinking back it feels so strange and surreal now .
I found the film hauntingly beautiful. It did cause me emotional angst but it was felt so deeply in me that I know it changed some things inside of me. Realizing that it was all in his head and basically he was still alone, he had gone on a mental journey that was cathartic for him. I loved it and found it unsettling. But that is what cinema ought to do, in my opinion. I thank all who had a hand in it. I am a baby boomer.
Thank you for this. I love the book Strangers and didn't know until now that All of Us Strangers was an adaptation of it. I am looking forward to watching it.
Thank you so much for this! You really put into words, what this experience was for me, seeing this movie!
My favorite movie last year. A magnificent achievement in cinema.
Another book that explores the generational divides during this period is "Out of the Shadows: Reimagining Gay Men's Lives " by Walt Odets. (Not the "Out of the Shadows" title about sex addiction by another author.) Odets also makes these distinctions about the way the AIDS crisis has affected the different cohorts, and explores the social psychologies of each.
okay, bought the film. Happy to hear about this. Certainly speaks to my experience.
Outstanding video! Excellent! Cheers, Mark
I am currently reading All of Us Strangers. Your video was the impetus and brought back memories of my adolescence as a Gen Xer. Being gay was social suicide at my high school. I think of a few classmates who deserved to be treated better.
As an older millennial, I wanted to like the film but couldnt connect. I found too many character shortcomings that just enraged me. Im over being sad, and it just pisses me off that life for us had to be like that. Maybe in that sense, the film was effective and impactful.
Life for us GenXers was filled with trauma. We didnt have the internet and rarely were we to ever see anyone on tv that was gay and if they were they were unlikable or dying of aids. It was incredibly lonely.
As a gay Gen X man, born in 1973, I did indeed come of age at the height of the AIDS epidemic here in North America. But I grew up in a small Canadian town far from the bright lights of the big city and whilst I knew I was gay. I honestly didn't think of AIDS as something applying to me. It was tragic and horrible and one of the reasons I will hate Ronald Reagan till the day I die, but I was 17 when the 80's ended and still very much in the closet (or so I thought) and it would not be till I discovered the internet and Furry culture that my sexuality got expressed in any meaningful way, abd that wasnt until 1993 or so, and obviously you can't get AIDS from cybersex, so I still was not particularly worried on a person level. Eventually, I fell into a deep depression and became the urban hermit that I still am today at age 50. And thankfully, you can't get AIDS from gay furry porn.
I'm a very lonely man (sigh) but I have never really worried about AIDS, even when I should have.
I think when I lived in Silicon Valley and um, got around in the furry community there, I just assume that we were all too geeky to get AIDS. :P
Not that I did
Ive never been good at media literacy but this explains so much why i couldnt sense these unique messages in the movie!
Ever since I came across "millennial’s parental apology fantasy", I've thought it was myopic. If you read any Ray Bradbury story involving children (particularly "The Veldt"), it's obvious he was tormented as a child. He might have wanted an apology. But considering the times he wrote in, his stories could be called "greatest generation parental revenge fantasy" and I don't think he was alone in this.
I will definitely watch this movie. For me the worst part about being a Gen X is that we were born living in a anti gay environment, further shunned during the HIV period and now at present date the total opposite. I mean its good, but the whole roller coaster ride of it all has resulted in some mental issues and left me bitter sweet all in all.
As a trans and gay 19 year old man I may not have lived the fear and stigma of the AIDS crisis but the movie was really healing for me. From my broken relationship with my parents and my constant pain, I watched the whole movie in tears, not even processing why it was affecting me so much. I see myself so much in Adam, because even if I haven't lived those crisis I've experienced first-hand the consequences of them. The bullying, the assault, the rejection, the fear, not only from others, but from myself too. All the pain, the internalised hate and fear that wouldn't let me exist peacefully, I still struggle with it a lot. For me this movie was healing in ways I can't even start to describe, finally seeing what's going on in my life reflected through someone else's
Sorry, but "growing up in the 80's and 90's" is not in-between - by your own rough-age-ranges given earlier, that's millennial, my gen, that are at the beginnings of general acceptance (I was born about 2/3 of the way through 1979, and its during my teenage years that acceptance grows and seems to accelerate - by my first year of college it was no-brainer to me to come out because I couldn't even imagine another way even though I was straight passing - AOL helped wit some of that).
Gen X is a "gown up in the 70's and 80's" thing, and millennialism "80's and 90's". If you were a teenager for the 90's, you're millennial. Generation Theory is mostly stupid, but it's not helped if you cannot keep your own somewhat-off date ranged consistent in the video.
I guess I am early Millennial so Ic an speak to this Gen X feeling somewhat in a very abstract sense, but we also need to consider WHERE someone lives. I grew up and live in the shadow of NYC (suburbs, Long Island) and there has been gay bars and Fire Island for even decades before I was born. I imagine someone born my same year growing up somewhere else may have less automatic feelings of "well, of course things will be better after school" or whatever, unless they did college in what now gets called a "woke location".
hell, even right now, if you not born in a good place wrt to this stuff, your not going to line up well with the stereotype of what its like to be gay college kid today vs 20 years ago vsv 40 years ago.
Just remember. We were also all probably pretty obnoxious. My healing came when I retraced me bullying and remembered it started when I was really snotty to a classmate that was just being nice on the first day of school.
Two things to add (Gen-X gay dude here): 1) Depending where you’re from, “queer” is not a popular term. I would never ever use it - it was deeply offensive and hurled as a slur. It may be popular with activists and newer generations but to me it’s outside my vocabulary. 2) In my opinion, Gen-Xers are a hardier lot who aren’t as addicted to the victim identity. We persevered in the face of a lot of negative stuff, but we’re still human beings, and none of it defines who we fundamentally are. My personality is my identity, not the various labels that could be applied to me. 3) The gays who died of AIDS will never be forgotten. They suffered so much. What an incalculable loss to us all.
ok boomer
@@f1mbultyr xx
I just have one criticism about this video and that is: It wasn't just Millennials that took to the internet to share their stories. The early days of Yahoo! saw people from the Silent Generation on up to Millennials sharing stories about wars (WW2, Korea and Vietnam), HIV Pandemic, and so forth. These personal narratives were fantastic but lost when Verizon purchased Yahoo! then systematically deleted the records of our past.
How is this only 659 views? 🤯 This should be at least 659k. You made an excellent analysis 🎉
I needed to pause at 10:00. I really wanted to watch the rest of the video but hearing “queer” being said over again ad nauseam sounds like someone shouting the F-slur at me. Oh wait, it is just like that! When I was coming to terms with my reality being a gay man in the early 90’s, the only people using “queer” (aside from the most extreme activists) were straight people adopting equivalent terms to non-binary, furry, pansexual and other affects they could easily wiggle out of. When the backlash against the gay/lesbian population happened from conservative parties in the mid-90s, these “queer” people who clamored to take up space were suddenly no where to be found. They were like the “college lesbians” who married men after school and joined polite society without skipping a beat.
You’re stuck in the 90s. Can’t you see? We conquered this word and transformed it into something positive
None of us Gen Xers are stuck in the 90s. We fought through the 80s, 90s, and the 00s to make this better world where people can tell us we’re stuck in the 90s.
@@emanuelechierici8339 No we f'ing didn't, it's a slur..
@@emanuelechierici8339 No conquering has taken place. It is still used today with the same intent. I do not care if its use raises one's profile in whatever ridiculous social cult currently in fashion.
The movie actually has a short bit of dialogue where the two gay characters make conversation about the terms "queer" vs. "gay" and the different connotations they have to their different generations. (Don't really remember that well what they were saying though)
Shifting baselines-of-reference in personal experience.....each generation experiences these changing baselines together.
Gen-x here. When I came out to my mother, she thought I was contaminated with AIDS. She probably still does.
Like most people, you are grossly misinterpreting "Don't Ask Don't Tell." You are missing the crucial piece of policy that pre existed it. Prior to "don't ask don't tell" the official policy of the Department of Defense was simply: "We can discharge you if we find out you're gay. Full stop." In that time of the Lavender Scare, the Government was actively investigating military officers and civilian government employees that were suspected of being gay. So "Don't Ask Don't Tell" was in fact an improvement over that policy in that effectively it put some limits on that policy, in that it meant that the Government was no longer going to investigate your private life to discover whether or not you are gay, and in return, if you are gay, you don't go around disclosing it publicly. That is a key part that has been largely forgotten. Was it "full equality?" No, it wasn't. But given the policy that pre-existed it, "DADT" was in fact an improvement at the time, and at the time it was widely understood to be an improvement over the previous "Government Gay Witch Hunt" policy.
The deep conditional tolerance underlined by secret disgust.
Great video! Thank you
Your commentary is very US-centred - which is odd, considering you're analysing a British film.
Personally, I think dividing people along these fake 'generation' lines is extremely unhelpful; human experience blurs and blends. It doesn't shift dramatically when 1963 becomes 1964, for example.
Where All Of Us Strangers triumphs is in depicting universal human themes such as feeling misunderstood by our parents, loneliness, examining our past for clues to our present, while seen through the lense of a gay man approaching midlife.
Love how you show professor x in stead of magneto who is gay lol.
I don’t remember hearing a single thing about PrEP, living as I do under my rock.
Funny... I started watching the movie as a portrail of me, because the correspondence is quite obvious between the main character and me, and suddenly I realised that the movie is telling a story that reflects typical problems, not my case, not the case of someone particular. It lacks any distinctive marker that makes his experience someone's personal experience and focuses on the typicality. That also backgrounds all aspects of life that makes our experiences personal and that makes us escape the generational trauma. I left the movie with the feeling that the movie was about other people, despite the fact that I fit the age, profile, detachment from my parent's family, bigcity isolation, etc., etc.. In other words, the movie does not reflect my experience despite representing what I experience. It's like being described by a sociologist who does not understand what is going on "in the scene" he/she is watching.
I would ask you to consider that those of us born between 1960 to 64 are neither Boomers nor Gen X but , as David Leavitt postulated in a wonderful piece in Esquire in 1986 called The New Lost Generation. I recommend it.
So true. We had a unique position of being right at the start of our "coming out" and becoming sexually active just as the AIDS epidemic burst upon the scene all around us.
You are Boomers ! 1946 and 1964. Gen X are 1965 and 1980.
@@sophiawilson8696 I think Scott and I both recognize we are defined as Boomers. However, Gen X, Millenials and Gen Z are all defined by 15 year periods while Boomers stretch almost 20. That means most of us at the tail end did not have an experience of growing up in the shadow of WWII. We were also not of age in the crazy 60s. I know most of my peers feel like we can't identify with either Boomers or Gen X. I have seen numerous articles defining a "micro-generation" they either the "Tweeners" or Generation Jones (i.e. keeping up with the Jones').
Did you mean Ian Mckellen(Magneto) in the earliest generation?
The picture you have is of Patrick Stewart (Professor X) who's been happily to his 3rd Wife Susan Ozell since 2013. Generation is still correct though.
Great video! Please work on sound levels when clips are added though. Thanks
I was born in 1992, but in rural Nebraska and poor. I didn't have the Internet to much later in life and wasn't able to leave my rural community until my late 20s. I feel that's something that isn't talked about a lot when it comes to generations. I feel like a gen xer bc it took that long for the social changes to happen on the coast to get there. However, with the ubiquitous of the internet after my childhood. I feel like rural America skip the millennial social generation and skipped right to gen zers. In terms or parenting. Of, course we were all impacted equally by the national events of our times like the Iraq war and the towers falling. But, still a bit stunted.
I had a lot more privilege than most gay gen xers. I live in an isolated city in an isolated country( Adelaide, South Australia) and we also had the single best early intervention programs in the world to prevent the spread of hiv/aids. I have only ever had one friend who is hiv +. We had a gay premier during the 70's/80's who overturned a lot of anti gay laws, and he lived openly with his partner. We had free concerts and events all the time in the 80's and 90's, and because the Village People movie bombed everywhere all over the world except for Adelaide, I have been to countless free Village People concerts, they would teach hiv/aids info between songs. It was so much fun. Free condoms were available everywhere, as well as free needle exchanges. I didn't appreciate at the time what my community here in Adelaide had escaped. It is incredibly tragic that this was so preventable everywhere else in the world, but we were in a unique position.
Also, my grandparents are from the Greatest Generation, not the ‘silent generation.’ They lived and served during WWII.
I would like to point out that Gen X is from 1960 to 1980, they are 20 year generations or Saeculum, not 15 as you stated, based on the well researched book by William Strauss and Neil Howe called “The Fourth Turning” ✌️
A lot of people don’t understand the origin. The book is more about understanding the past to prepare for the future. Like it predicted we are in a very trying time now. The good part is in the other epochs democracy and expansion of rights won, at least in the long run. I have hope that America will make the right choice again.
"I would like to point out" that Howe and Strauss aren't the definitive authorities on this matter. 1960 to 1980 is the lesser accepted range at this point.
It also depends on which western country you come from. The eras do tend to shift approx 5 years from 1965… Gen x is different outside the USA.
I would just like to say I love your videos
The military discharged more people under DADT than under the previous outright-ban system.
This was increasingly seen as ridiculous during Bush's wars in Afghanistan and Iraq.
it’s messed up the movie won’t be released in any physical form.
The big thing at the time was 1996 and stupid Bob Dole and the Hawaii Supreme Court nightmare, and the Defense of marriage act, and the lopsided vote. It was only the beginning of a very ugly fight. First it started with legislation in various states and then it became constitutional amendments . Fortunately, I lived in New Jersey during the 90s which had antidiscrimination laws so I felt like I was protected. But convincing people that it was necessary it was another story. Gay people tend to weather the storm and worry about with her own experiences like and not that of others. Bill Clinton did try to lift the ban on gays in a military and then didn’t realize what a shit storm that would start. Even internationally. However, it did feel like things were getting better I think, even in a time when the Internet was just beginning to become all over the place. I hear so many things about not being able to relate to Gen X. Why don’t people start to learn to relate to each other
you missed the Aids issue for Gen X
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@@eypu999 Two words, one infamous name: RONALD REAGAN. Focusing on Clinton's signing of DOMA was rather peculiar. Clinton himself acknowledged it was a terrible compromise that he still regrets to this day. Ronald Reagan took his disdain for the lives of all LGBTQ individuals and those who supported them to his cold wet grave. There is no comparison to how atrocious Reagan's actions were. He even showed indifference when hemophiliacs, including young children, began contracting the disease. He stubbornly refused to change his perspective and likely viewed children like Ryan White as collateral damage in his crusade against homosexuality.
ah. This. This explains how I understand this movie.
Uk - section 28 from late 80s to early 00s. Just, look it up. It was a black void for my gen.