Thank you very much for this video. I chose the CYC X1 Pro Gen 3, because I admittingly am a noob to DIY and CYC made it easy to get into the game. But I am interested in Bafang as well. Thank goodness for options and the help from the DIY community. I'd love to see more powerful and efficient mid drives being produced with ease of maintenance and quick change of worn parts. Exciting times.
Hey Shane. Glad you like the video. This is shaping up to be a pretty exciting year. More and more companies making cool light electric vehicles and products!
I have a BBSHD on my bike, it's completely stock and it's whisper quiet, compared to the cyc which is quite noisy, plus they still have issues with the magnets falling off on the gen 2, which was why I went for the BBSHD, it may not be as versatile as the cyc, but it is very robust. It is a strange one, bafang have all these motors floating around in DIY builds yet they never seem to issue any firmware updates, what you see is what you get. And now, because they have thought they can make more money, they are trying to restrict the DIY community with their newer versions, trying to make you buy their battery as well, which is a shame, but not surprising.
Spot on Anthony about Bafang changing the game with unconscionable CANBUS controller requiring pairing of a Bafang Canbus battery to new M625 BBSHD replacement. High Voltage is working on a solution to changing the controller to allowing the M625 be used with the battery of your choice. But, yes, a real shame what Bafang is doing. The BBSHD is such a good motor and the programmability of the software is an outstanding feature.
OMG! I’m lucky to have found this. So informative and technical yet quick n easy enough for folks. So many out there are just Nerdout talking without substance. Get over here people! ❤️👍🏼
Almost 5,500km on my CYC X1 Stealth in just over a year. As someone who has around 200,000 miles on a road bike over my cycling career I wouldn't even think of a motor without a torque sensor for pedal assist. I normally ride my 2012 Brodie Bandit DIY eBike at an average of 35kph in pedal assist level 1 in Road mode. Occasionally, if the weather turns bad and I just want to get home, I'll switch to Race mode and pedal at up to 60kph. I love to pedal. Having said that I had a time when I had an injury and pedaling was painful. Then my full grip throttle was a godsend. 40km commute is not fun at all with a thumb throttle. When it comes to hills, I live in BC, pedaling uphill at 30kph is pretty nice. As I like to say, having a CYC mid-drive with torque sensor is like getting on a bike to find out you have the strength of a Tour de France rider. I did do one major upgrade though. I added a Box 2 Components eWide drive train for eBikes. HUGE difference. Especially for the mountains I climb here. And I saved a lot on my build because the bike I used only cost me $270 CDN on Facebook Marketplace. That freed up the funds so I could buy a 52V/21Ah battery from Electrifybike. Top speed on flat road with a tailwind is 74.2kph. Just ordered my Gen 3 Stealth and an upgrade for my current Stealth to upgrade the crank. I'll compare them both. As far as the sound level is concerned, like you said, cars are much louder. I don't even notice the sound. The good thing about the sound however is when I am in town or on trails with other people they do hear me coming. That is a plus.
Hey John, thanks for the comment and the feedback. Its great to hear of a CYC motor doing well after so many KMs. That is a screaming deal you got on FB marketplace. Funny story. I actually had my first go with a Torque Sensor today as I was testing out my mates who was having some issues. I don't tend to ride much with the pedals so it was quite an enjoyable experience. We are definitely spoiled for places to ride here in BC! Keep us posted on the upgrades for the Stealth. Will be good to see how that goes.
It was following your advice over the last few years that got me interested enough to buy 2 bafang motors a bbshd and bbs02 poor health has stopped me from using them but it looks like I'll be well enough this summer to get on the trails .Thanks for the informative knowledgeable uploads.
I have a modified BBSHD on a tiny Cannondale Trail 8 that uses all 1500 W to haul my fat butt up a very steep hill. I have terrible asthma and would never be able to get around my town without a motor. It helps so much that I was even able to ride a whole 26 miles in one trip, whereas before I couldn't go more than 5 blocks. I really wish there were more DIY brands for these motors so Bafang would be pressured to update their stuff. I don't like a lot of the existing prefabricated ebikes for various reasons.
Very interesting. I have been riding a modified BBSHD bike using a Phaserunner for a while now. Despite running it regularly at 5kW (yes it will handle that just fine for short periods), and for over 4000 km, the only failure has been the nylon reduction gear which I have upgraded to a peek plastic gear. I am building a new bike now and was looking at both power plants. I think I will stick with the BBSHD, mainly because of just how much cheaper it is and the value and reliability that you get for it.
Cheers Sigma. It's a very solid motor. Not perfect but with the PEEK in there is pretty close. Watch out for the sustained high temps as eventually you can compromise the stator.
Does the Phaserunner allow you to utilize field weakening for similar advantages to the ones mentioned in this video with the High Voltage upgrade kit?
You make awesome videos Dude, I like the way you give each motor there strength and weakness, I was considering Bafang for my project but when I saw the X1 Stealth I fell in love. So I have no experience in mid drives and I just jumped right into X1 and seeing this video does not make me regret but make me want to convert my fat bike with a BBSHD. Maybe my next project. Keep on producing these very well made videos.
You presented all of this great info really well, thanks! I'm about to make a choice between the Stealth Gen 3 and BBSHD, and I'm consuming as much info as I can to try and avoid as many pitfalls as possible.
bang on the nail even if bafang did 3 or 4 different bottom bracket to motor casings say standard then +20-25mm incriments would make the bafang useful for loads of bike frames it does not currently fit well....Or at all!
I have both motors as well. The bbshd is silent ( close to it ). The cyc is a little noisy. The pedal torque sensor on the cyc I think is better. The ground clearance is better on the cyc ( either way you mount it ). My opinion it’s personal preference, and depends on what your intentions are . My cyc set up has a 60v battery, and my Bafang is 52v . Personally I prefer the build quality on the cyc.
Its pretty efficient as a motor. In terms of range it's a function of battery capacity and style and speed of riding. If you go flat out then just like in a gas car the energy will be used faster.
i run both and love both, bbso2 for commuter cyc stealth for bike park and single track. yes bafang would be the motor to rule them all, if they had torque sensor.
I think the ultimate game changer would be...use the bbshd as a fixe...to utilize regen. Take out the clutch system and use a torque sensor bottom bracket...while using the asi 855 paired with a lightweight battery. With a gates belt drive 29er plus bike. Only if I had the funds.
This is the best comparison video of these 2 very popular mid drives. I think someone far smarter than me should try and make an aftermarket upgraded BBSHD motor, that can match these aftermarket controller power limits. Maybe by doing that, a torque sensor could be fashioned in the remodeled motor core.
Awesome video great seeing both builds. each have a place in my garage, I find the x1 needs high rpm to put down power versus the bbshd which has more go power down low, haven't finished my bbshd bac855 build have the kit ready.
I had a quick look and I can't see any show stopping reason why not. Looks a pretty cool frame actually. You will need to get the right size for the bottom bracket. Probably at least the 100mm version
We do when we can get controllers. The component supply issues are really causing problems right now. The video was not really about one better than the other as both have advantages. But if you want something right now CYC is an option. The video was not really about pushing what we do and more of an overview of the differences between the two mid drives. Cheers
Great video! So you are saying if I go with the Bafang Mid Drive Kit... that I should basically use it with 1 gear / sprocket? I just watched another video where a guy was saying he destroyed the back gears while switching with the Bafang. Is that right?
I wonder what people think or experience people have with running the cyc at full power through an internal geared hub like the shimano alfine 8, or ebike design Shimano 5 speed IGH hub, or a Rolhoff 14 speed(at 7x the cost of a shimano Alfine 8), or even a thru axle compatible Enviolo / Nuvinci 380° IGH ($500 and supposedly only rated for 500w)? The strength of the drive train/ chain being the most common hesitation I read about the high power motors being the reason I'm wondering. I've run the weaker Shimano nexus 8 Sg-8R31(not the redband) and the Shimano Nexus 3sp SG-3R40 as the drive train with a shift kitted(jack shafted) 50cc 4 stroke motorized bicycle with no problems. I ran the KMC EHX Z1 1/2" chain, which is super beefy, strong, and heavy... as strong as some 415H chains, and I would argue possibly even nearly on par with some 420 chains. Also there is the fact you could run a 415H chain on most if not all of these hubs(it may not allow you to use the smallest cogs[13t, 14t, or 15t] on the hub cassette but you can use this heavy duty rated chain on IGH hubs). Granted, I know how to service internal geared hubs and keep them maintained. I also know how to shift the hubs to make sure the torque from the motor doesn't quickly cause wear the internal parts or all out destroy them... It's a bit like driving a manual transmission motorcycle or car. You just dont have a clutch to engage... you completely let off the throttle, then upshift or downshift to the desired gear. Once the hub has definitely engaged the desired gear, you engage the throttle again. Making sure you use quality shift cables that are set up correctly(and monitored to make sure the cable(s) stay set up correctly), following through on the shifting method I mentioned, and maintaining the lubrication of the hub... I believe make them easily capable of handling the high-powered middrive ebike motors with the chains I mentioned... thoughts?
I have heard of folks getting away with it. The issues I think are shifting under load. I would not risk the ultra expensive rohloff. Also who needs all those gears really. I'd get a cheap nexus and start there.
@High Voltage I recently got a brand new Alfine 8(the newer model 7001 not the 501) 36h with shifter, cable, cassette joint unit, 2 cogs, 4 no turn washers for $200... basically, the only thing it didn't have was the center lock disc rotor, which I already had. It's what I plan to use for a CYC full suspension ebike build. I have this vintage sweet chain tensioner / guide that bolts to ISCG chain guide tabs(or an ISCG tab adapter). It's called ROOX roller coaster chain guide. I've customized it with a stronger spring,beefier jockey wheels, and bushings/spacers so it will take wider chains. I haven't decided on a frame yet. I keep changing my mind between frames for 26", 27.5" or 29" wheels. No matter what, the frame has to allow for at least 2.5", maybe even 3" wide tires.
Thanks for your in depth opservation - I have a rather new Reynolds bike with Nexus 8sp IGH, Magura hidraulic rim brakes, heavy as hell so I will have to motorize it considering my old age, but still want to go pedals assisted as long as possible, and want to be capable of doing at least 60 km in one direction and then charge it for the return, and your suggestions are very helpful, thanks
Nice comparison video! I am looking at options for a CYC build. Have you seen anyone use a 3 speed hub with this motor? looks like a .75/1/1.33 ratio. Would this be a wide enough gear range?
I think I have seen one. You have to watch the high torque. Shifting under load is probably not wise. There are some new hubs coming out like the Revolute but they are expensive. Gear range it should be ok.
Hello, thank you for your expertise on these motors. I plan to use my bike for food delivery around the city, traveling at least 80mi/day. Which of the two would be best for long term, daily use? Or would you recommend a newer motor from cyc or bafang or anyone else? Thank you for your time.
The BBSHD is hard to beat for sheer reliability and repairability here. Other options are hub motors if you do not have many hills. There are lots of options but if you are converting a delivery type bike the BBSHD is a good choice. Plenty of torque and power. It will not have the same feel as the Torque sensing CYC but you can depend on it day after day and in the unlikely event of issues you can repair it quickly and cheaply especially if you have a few spares about. Its worth following Eurobike as well as there should be quite a few new motors on there as well!
It’s cool that there are options, but we need a refresh of the current line up. Bafang is disappointing because of everything you said and yet they ignore a community that is free R&D. I love my BBSHD and it’s on stock controller at 52V. I am building a Bafang Ultra M620 Chinese carbon fat bike, I wish I had options on that Ultra…It would be cool if someone made parts to reduce the weight of the BBSHD and the Ultra M620. Cool video
@@HighVoltageKits yeah I have been waiting for the Ultra news….my problem is that my battery is in my frame, so moving up to a 72v is not practical for my application. I would be happy to just be able to program it like my BBSHD. Once I programmed the BBSHD, it was like a different motor. I’m pretty happy with the power for the most part, I just want to be able to dial in my PAS to feel perfect (for me). All that being said, I do play to run 2 batteries at times on the fatty. I have a DATEX2 that I use now on my BBSHD and love the extended range and sustained power. Great channel BTW
I see why you guys are working on your own motor/controller combo. The Surron setup for me is more ideal in design than either of these two. The idea of a big powerful motor/controller + 1:1 gearing is ideal.
You make a good point, although the surron is a motorcycle first and a bicycle last (if you have the pedal kit). As for a conversion, it's tricky coming up with a solution for a bike which was never intended to have a motor on it 😄
Great video comparison. I learned some new things. 🤙 For me I need the installation versatility of CYC for my bike. However it’s also about $250 more expensive. Also CYC has not responded to any of my emails. If they’re not responding to presale communications I have doubts about the support they will give after the sale.
Thanks. That's a tough question, especially now there is the TOSEVEN motors and a torque sensing bbshd the 635 being released. The CYC is also now in its 4th Generation. My favourite is still the modified bbshd which is not stock though. Stock the bbshd is less than half the price more reliance and much quieter. I'm not sure I've been much help here.
you hit the nail on the head about there needing to be a kit that combined the quietness/ruggedness of the bbshd and torque sensing of the x1 pro. bafang are fools not to make a bbhd with torque sensing. there is obviously a big market gap. is it too much to expect a quiet 1500w motor with torque sensing. i for one am put off from buying either kit due to their massive inherent flaws.
Its disappointing for sure that they did not upgrade the BBSHD in a meaningful way. There is a third generation of the CYC being shipped right now though so I am hopeful that some of the issues with that system in terms of reliability will be resolved.
In comparing these interesting parameters one missing category I'm interested in and curious about, and that's implementation cost / bang for the buck. A cursory glace appears to show one costing about three times the other but I realize that's not the end of the story because you mentioned that with one, more additional parts needed to be purchased. Another curiousity is the comparative ease and comfort of peddling a distance in the case of power being unavailable.
The cyc on paper is about $300 cheaper depending on options. However it can also require more work and on balance not last as long. So over time I'd say the bbshd would work out cheaper. Much depends on the cost of the frame or donor bike as well in terms of needing extra parts. Hope this helps a bit. Cheers
@@HighVoltageKits Thanks, that's encouraging! I don't know why the bafang came up between 5 and 6 hundred dollars and the cyc at 16 to 17 hundred. 🤔 That's looking on Amazon.
Perhaps you should team up with cyc to build that dream motor that we all want taking the best of both worlds of bbshd and x1 pro and combining them into a new motor but just leave bafang the company out of the equation since they turned their backs on us DIY'ers
The idea that Bafang would co operate with me is pretty much non existent. CYC I think will continue to develop things. So it will be interesting to see what they do over the next little while.
Sounds cool. Are they both good with hill climbing? I'm getting this for hauling a trailer and going across town. Bike touring is something I'd like to do too.
Not really. I mean mine is throttle only but it will sit between 50-60 with ease. It's a bit of a unique setup but I don't think it's any different to the newer stuff in that respect. You have to watch it with heat buildup a bit. The latest version is supposed to have better temperature control and we will see how that goes as reviews come in.
I just received an x1 stealth after waiting months only to discover that my controller is bricked. Customer service has been a joke, it took a week to get back to me and I was nagging them. Now I need a new controller and it's not clear how that will proceed. They seeem to have known there was a controller issue because the manual discusses Bricked controllers and it now appears that they shipped the controllers without testing them probably because there was a backlog of orders. It took 3 months to get my kit and now I don't know what will happen with the controller replacement. Good times 😭😭
That sucks Doug. I'd be shocked if they sent them out without testing. Seems like an own goal. I'm not sure what to say. Their customer service has always been good from what I have heard. A week seems excessive though. They will replace it and not abandon you. Obviously this does nothing to alleviate your frustration and disappointment. Keep me posted please. You are welcome on our Discord server. The Facebook groups are good as well. Perhaps it's worth posting and seeing if it is truly bricked. Easier to help you on discord as you can post photos and video clips etc. Feel your pain!
@@HighVoltageKits I'm waiting to hear back from them now. Should be about 6am so hopefully they will see my latest email. I sent them screenshots of the app and tried to install the XML files they sent to no avail. I have no throttle or PAS. They suggested that I send the controller back to HK and they would examine it and maybe send a new one. Who gets to pay for that? Shipping stuff to China is $$$.
Have you tried posting on the cyc Facebook group. There is a chance it's something simple like location settings not turned on. Also the plugs for the main harness and halls are pretty similar is it possible they were mixed up. I heard of this happening before. It's worth a try. Not sure on shipping.
@@HighVoltageKits when I first tested the bike I had PAS and throttle and after tweaking the app I managed to get throttle only but later nothing worked. The app would refuse any changes sometimes and not at other times. This morning I tried to install the XML files and the app just clicked and blinked and wouldn't go any farther. The manual talks about bricked controllers and says to call support. Why would you put that in your manual unless you knew there was an issue. I thought it was strange at first but now think they were expecting problems. They are controlling the dialogue on this by stating that ASI? Should not be contacted about controller issues. This is at the bottom of their emails to me.
Yeah the ASI structure means dealers ie CYC have to sort these issues. I suspect you have run into the issue where the controller switches blue tooth frequency. It's not essentially bricked but recovery cannot be performed on your end. At least that's my educated guess based on what you mention. Changing some settings in the app seems to cause this.
I am not quite sure I follow. In general the charging while moving stuff tends not to add much value as they are a drain themselves on the system. Unless you mean something else?
Hi Mr. High Voltage ! i am building my own e-bike . i like the look of the egg rider v2 display . my frame is a old mtb non suspension frame from bianchi . i want to use the bbshd motor too on my build . can you recommend the missing parts in example the controller , the battery ? do you still prefer bafang setup before cyc setup ?
We produce a full upgrade kit for the BBBSHD which has both the ASI controller, Eggrider and everything else you will need. We have about a two month waiting list on it at present. If you would like to learn more you are welcome to join our discord community where there are lots of riders using this kit. Personally I prefer my BBSHD bike but there is alot to say for CYC who out of the two companies are really the only ones left innovating in the DIY field.
I know this question is unrelated to your video. I had a clutch failure, 3 miles from home which wasn't ideal. I have a BBSO2, I was wondering if there are other options of clutch available. As the design isn't great, for example if there was 4 Pawls instead off 3 and it was designed like the Hope rear hub it would be bomb proof. What are your thoughts.
DT Swiss stuff is good. We are going to try one my friend has just picked up soon. The less gears the stronger. Steel is the way to go I think. There are options other than Pawls but not an area I have investigated too much. 4 would be stronger for sure. Let me know what you decide on.
At the rear I have a Rohloff speedhub which has covered more than Ten thousand miles. This system works great, it is very expensive. The Speedhub can handle lots of torque as long as the sprocket that is selected isn't to low which can damage the Speedhub,15 or 14 sprocket is usually ok. The BBSO2 could be greatly improved in certain areas, such as a better clutch and easier access to the clutch for repair or maintenance.
Hello high voltage and viewers. I love my bafang mid drive except when I turn it off or set PAS to 0. Then I feel a lot of drag in the pedals. Has anyone else experimented with this to get home on a dead battery?
The only times I have run out of power it has sucked to get home. Ended up pushing or calling the wife! You can do it but its a slog especially with only one gear.
@@happygiraffe9787 in you use the Power of the Motor with care there is no problem with shifting. But chains only hold 1000km. The pedaling feels very natural because you have a torque sensor
You have to have at least one sprocket at the back. Or figure out a way to use a belt. But if you mean just have one gear rather than a cassette then yes that is totally doable. It is better with the modified BBSHD though if you want to do this. The CYC performs better with gears for sure. Stock the BBSHD you really want to use gears with as well.
I have not seen it. Those Mars rovers lasted a long long time in a very inhospitable environment though so they must be pretty good! Do you have a link you can post?
I would not risk it. The torque I think is above the safe limits for it. They are a damn expensive thing to break. Brilliant tho! I would love to use one one day. I am not sure the 14 gears would be needed. There is a much cheaper Sturmy archer 3 spd that is rated up to 3000w but have not tried it myself. I would like to go IGH one day if I can free up the time. Cheers
I believe that the Rolloff has plastic pins inside that are designed to snap before the hub gets toasted. And the repair is about $100 to replace the pins.
Ali express do endless cheap carbon frames. As the quality though.... In terms of speed the throttle is variable and how many gears is up to you at the back.
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Excellent review. Congratulation and thanks so much.
I'm seriously considering the CYC. Anyone know what the main differences between the pro and the stealth are? In terms of actual use, not just specs. I assume the stealth will have a lower effective top speed, but would it also be less capable going up hills?
@@HighVoltageKits Cool, thanks. I mostly commute short distances with my current e-bike, a 500 watt hub drive. It's ok but would like more power and a bit more speed. Something that could hit 35-40mph would be fine. I also want some degree of cargo capacity, maybe even pull a small trailer with it. If it was just me and the bike I'd probably go with the stealth, but sounds like I might benefit from the added power when hauling extra weight. Thanks for the reply, have watched quite a few of your videos, good content.
Does the setup menu show an option for 24" wheels? Im building a 24" and I want to be sure before I order a CYC Stealth that it can be setup for 24" wheels. Thank you.
If the BBSHD is pulling 3.5kW at just 55kph, that means it's losing 2 - 2.5kW to field weakening. That seems hard to believe. Would a stock BBSHD that hasn't been hot-rodded be able to reach near 55kph maxing out at 1kW?
What do you mean by losing? A stock BBSHD can hit 55kph and I did. On the flat though with zero headwind and after a long time. With 3.5kw and field weakening it will hit that speed in a few seconds. On a hill the stock motor will struggle to get up to 30kph and accelerate like a three legged donkey. The modified bike will hit 50 and pull like a train still. Its a different animal and geared in a different way to stock. The extra power is not lost as such, it's creating the fun.
@@HighVoltageKits at 8:35 you state that "you're going along at 55kph and you're dumping 3500W into the motor still". Since it only takes 1-1.5kW to maintain 55kph against wind/rolling resistance, I interpreted that as 2-2.5kW being lost to field weakening.
I have a felt brougham fixie/single speed I want to convert and then get a trek dual sport 3 and convert it. Probably will go with bbshd that comes with 46t and will get the 52v 21ah battery, what single rear gear should I put on my single speed so I do not to overheat the motor and at the same time able to be pretty fast and go uphill on asphalt?
@@HighVoltageKits will probably get the programming cable, but that won’t help too much, I’ll put 28t, not to kill the motor and still have power/speed on continuous riding
Great video! Torque sensing is absolutely crucial for me, so I’m hesitating between the x1 Stealth and the TSDZ2. The Stealth addresses all the shortcomings of the TSDZ, except for noise. But these are 2 different motors. One is 750w, the other is 1500w. I wonder how they compare in sound if the x1 is restricted to 750w. What are your thoughts? (Btw, since you have a gen 1, they have since come out with brass gears, which I’ve read seems to help with noise).
The cyc is still more noisy at low speeds. Its the pitch of the motor and the tension wheel on the chains. The brass makes a small bit of difference but not much
@@HighVoltageKits yeah, the TSDZ is very quiet as well at the low RPMs. But it needs so many upgrades (open source firmware, temp sensor, heat dissipation mods, upgraded chainrings, upgraded cranks, 860c display) to have the features the X1 Stealth has straight out of the box. And here in Canada, the TSDZ2 (+ the upgrades) and the X1 stealth are virtually the same price. Seems like the X1 stealth is a no brainer….
im considering x1 stealth because its newer than bbshd and comes with up to date hardware compared to bbshd so does x1 stealth have same problems like this x1 pro?
The X1 stealth is a different beast. I have heard great things tho. Its not meant for long periods of flat out riding. But its very compact and packs a punch. Due to the Torque system it is very responsive on trails etc. So its going for the more powerful version of the Bosch bikes. No system is perfect but it is their latest design so lessons learned have been incorporated. The CYC facebook group is a great place to get more information.
Not 100% sure. Only going on a few reports but in general not as much power and a harder install. Not many examples to go on. We have a category for it on discord but not many riders using it.
I just installed a CYC X1 Pro using brass gears. I was super concerned about the noise but the noise is not bad at all. When I pass people walking on paths I have to get within say 15 meters before they react. For me, who was seriously concerned about noise, it’s a non- issue.
im pretty new to diy ebikes, im about to build my first one, but couldnt you just put both motors on one bike to get the best of both worlds and end the comparisons??
One problema with bbs02 and bbshd its the diference in offset to get pedals centered underneath you. I have bbs02 and I think its the worst caracteristic of this type of motor.
While there are places that are getting very harsh on ebikes. Usually due to the actions of a few idiots many places are more sensible. Its pretty easy to restrict a bikes speed and power to comply with regulations. I'm trying to steer things towards having a light electric vehicle class. Might be an uphill battle but I'm going to do it anyway. Here in Canada there is a great deal of offroad as well. Lots of people like to be able to ride at the legal 500 / 750 assist and get a boost offroad. I hope laws change. In reality those motors that the bike makers claim are 250 are actually much more powerful. The regulations are a mess but there is hope in alot of places.
so the cyc is much the same(more refined obviously) as the cyclone except the cyclone has nylon reduction gears which makes it almost silent and a cheap controller, i'd love to run something like the 219 chain drive on my cyclone (needs to have a choice of tooth count tho) 219 chain ring with the ability of the 130BCD spiders 👌👌👌 even a belt drive might be cool for that part of the drive system because that's kinda where the cyclones fall on there ass, they use a free wheel bmx style sprocket on the motor an while it's good allowing you to peddle with the motor off an not turn a dead motor it does get annoying swapping them out plus that cog is designed for 1/8 chain an i run 415 EK mc chain for reduced chain stretch issues ......... thanks for the review 👍👍👍
I'm going to do mine after 8k lol. Some recommend every few thousand KMs. It can be worth greasing the main gear if you think it's sounding dry and you can do that without removing the motor.
@@HighVoltageKits I have passed 8 thousand km, there is no dry sound, some do not start the engine until 15 thousand km, I do not know which one is healthy.
Honestly Mike. I have never seen a 250watt bbshd or a 500 watt one. The only 750 watt one Bafang did was the BBS02. That's a different motor tho. The BBSHD or BBS03 (same thing) is sold as 750 watts. All they do is lock the controller to 20 amps. They are usually sold as a kit with a cheaper battery etc. If you were to rip off the controller to the best of my knowledge you could hot rod one like any other..As long as it is a BBSHD. The internal structures like gears etc will be the same.
There are a few videos in the list on waterproofing things mostly for our upgrade kits. A stock bbshd should be pretty solid though. It should handle wet no problem. Full submersion too long and the fibre gaskets might suffer.
Tough right now. There are resellers online but they are a premium. We have no stock till June / July as of now. The larger BACs are more available. The 855 is very hard to get. Mostly due the semi conductor and component shortages!
Off the start I will say the Bafang is the quietest of them all - because they designed it with helicon nylon gears. I do not tolerate loud winning motors. Also, may I add, Bafang's cadence advance or downshifting is natural and smooth. Unfortunately you will not get this experience on the CYC. Thirdly, the Bafang's "mean time before failure" is much longer than many other electric motors 0 and parts are easily obtained. Fourthly, the control back-lite large color monitor is un-matched. Fifthly, you have a wealth of 3rd party added value products and accessories. OMG, do I need to go on? Ok, let me go on for just one more, do you think Bafang is standing still? There are 2 new versions of motors on the drawing board - one will make its appearance this year, 2023. These will have an upgraded internal mechanism, and controller. I think Bafang should allow an open-source platform (encourage mechanical and a API (application development interface) ) for certain motors that will allow 3rd parties to get in the mix - this would be great for overall product development for both the 3rd party and Bafang while creating "all roads lead to Bafang." It just makes business sense to do this. The point you make on motor use efficiency at: 7:15 is true with the configuration you show. Overall, the Bafang has a superior armature/field magnets design regardless of "field weakening." Dude, I am sounding like a salesperson - please stop me. The controller is smarter to know when things are getting hot and will give the heads up and adjust. About Torque sensing: CYC has the clear advantage here.
Hey Bobcatt, thanks for the comment. Your information on the motor was interesting. When you say new models are we talking the bbshd here or another bafang motor. There m625 revision was terrible. They do have quite a big product line but apart from the ultra they are lower power. If they are making a true succesor to the BBSHD that's great. It looks like cyc are going at this market as well with their proton and photon. It should be an interesting year for sure!
Hi there HighVoltageKits - the M625 will either be scrapped or modified - with a different series - model. The problem with Bafang is they have different Dev groups competing. There are both advantages and inherent problems with this business model. Bafang is going after the Bosh space. This means they will have to be accepted by major bike manufacturers to allow integration of the Bafang system (Bafang would be a factory install by a major manufacturer). Things are surely moving fast. Bafang wins the overall *best esthetics and IDE of the controller monitor* - hands down. This is very attractive to the public who has grown close to mobile phone apps. *About 3rd-party API* : If I were in development for Bafang, I would create an API for 3rd parties (where they would have the incentive) so they can build a "junction box." This would allow other products -accessories to be integrated. For instance a regenerative braking use, Garmin, or to see on a screen a tachometer of the rpm of the motor. On another note, *the super capacitor* will also be a component for these motors, where the acceleration ramps up amperage, the Caps can be of real use to efficiency. Use Caps to compliment batteries storage.
I had to do a rotor replacement on mine. They were of an old style however. I don't have any real idea of the scale of the issue or circumstances with Gen 2 so its not fair for me to speculate too much in this video. In the same vein people also break their nylon gearing in the BBSHD if its not setup correctly for running High Power. I don't have a Gen 2 CYC and supposedly the rotors have been upgraded significantly for that platform. I do mention that overall it remains to be seen if the CYC can do 8000 km maintenance free like the BBSHD often does. Thanks for the comment.
I hope so. I suspect part of it is the new vesc is limiting rpm. 13,000 rpm and increasing heat is not a good mix for glued on magnets. I still don't understand why they don't key them
@@HighVoltageKits Yes, it seems they are learning from their mistakes and make upgrades. The magnets need to be part of the rotor frame, not glued on it.
I took a chance and bought 2 bbshds. I lose money if the bike is off the road for any reason. 30kph is more than I need inner city wise. Really, lectric bikes I use because they reduce injury and recovery time for the job...
@@HighVoltageKits Aye! It's only the poor urban planning that makes leccy bikes generally a pain...There's only one place in inner city Liverpool I would trust parking up for any time, central station. Overwise I might use my bike more often.
100% Most of my trips are to and from work so I have a secure location. Locks are a deterant. But not much use. I think there is a better solution. Would take infrastructure investment tho
If you rode it you'd know. I know it would not have the same instant one gear grip and rip torque. But I understand it would be useful. I'd need a different version as it won't work on the 100mm bb. It's a bit much effort right now just for a quick comparison.
it's such a shame Bafang have the attitude they do towards their products. If they offered more options over their controllers it would be great. I have a stock 52v and it's locked at 28amps and even the programming cable can't change that. The motor has so much headroom it's crazy. They seem to want to completely discourage home builds - their updated motor is locked to their own battery via can bus and their own battery is stupidly large for many applications. I am surprised so few alternative controllers are available. I am sure one that fits exactly like the stock one but offered more power would sell like hot cakes
Yeah I had the same problem, also if you use a 48v battery, you will never get the max battery%, it reads around 70% when fully charged. I flashed the 48v firmware, the current can now go to 30amps. It was pretty easy to follow as well, just don't use the firmware they link to.
@@acelectricalsecurity how easy was it to flash the firmware? did you follow a guide or video? what firmware did you use? is the 2amps difference noticeable?
@@djneils100 there's a video on here from golden motors, I followed their tutorial however I used their firmware but it had issues and wouldn't let me alter the settings, they sent me a fix, but I had already got the correct firmware from a site called cycle Sphere, and the guy got that from bafang. To be honest I didn't try the motor on 28amps I flashed it straightaway, it's only going to give you a few hundred extra watts depending on your battery, but every little helps😬
The issue there is you have to buy a luna bike. They won't just sell a controller. Fortunately we make our own that gives you up to 4kw of power. That means you can buy any old bbshd and do what you want with it. It's external tho so not quite as neat as having it as part of the motor. The benefit is better controller cooling so higher power.
Its 650 US for the full kit. No stock till late June tho due to component supply sadly. There are quite a few videos on the kit in the channel tho and you can also learn more on the upgrades via our Discord community.
@@HighVoltageKits Thanks, too rich for my blood, I do stuff on a budget and $650 for an upgrade kit is kind of steep. I’m going to use a 96V 5000W 100A Sabvoton Sine Wave Programmable Controller. It will be all I need for an upgrade.
Thank you very much for this video. I chose the CYC X1 Pro Gen 3, because I admittingly am a noob to DIY and CYC made it easy to get into the game. But I am interested in Bafang as well. Thank goodness for options and the help from the DIY community. I'd love to see more powerful and efficient mid drives being produced with ease of maintenance and quick change of worn parts. Exciting times.
Hey Shane. Glad you like the video. This is shaping up to be a pretty exciting year. More and more companies making cool light electric vehicles and products!
Another great video from Captain Codswallop/High Voltage. I can't thank enough for all the information we receive from these videos.
Thanks Arnold! Cheers
I have a BBSHD on my bike, it's completely stock and it's whisper quiet, compared to the cyc which is quite noisy, plus they still have issues with the magnets falling off on the gen 2, which was why I went for the BBSHD, it may not be as versatile as the cyc, but it is very robust.
It is a strange one, bafang have all these motors floating around in DIY builds yet they never seem to issue any firmware updates, what you see is what you get.
And now, because they have thought they can make more money, they are trying to restrict the DIY community with their newer versions, trying to make you buy their battery as well, which is a shame, but not surprising.
I had not seen a magnet issue of late but yes a stock bbshd is as you say extremely quiet! Cheers
Spot on Anthony about Bafang changing the game with unconscionable CANBUS controller requiring pairing of a Bafang Canbus battery to new M625 BBSHD replacement. High Voltage is working on a solution to changing the controller to allowing the M625 be used with the battery of your choice.
But, yes, a real shame what Bafang is doing. The BBSHD is such a good motor and the programmability of the software is an outstanding feature.
OMG! I’m lucky to have found this. So informative and technical yet quick n easy enough for folks. So many out there are just Nerdout talking without substance. Get over here people! ❤️👍🏼
Thank you for the kind words. Means alot! Cheers
Almost 5,500km on my CYC X1 Stealth in just over a year. As someone who has around 200,000 miles on a road bike over my cycling career I wouldn't even think of a motor without a torque sensor for pedal assist. I normally ride my 2012 Brodie Bandit DIY eBike at an average of 35kph in pedal assist level 1 in Road mode. Occasionally, if the weather turns bad and I just want to get home, I'll switch to Race mode and pedal at up to 60kph. I love to pedal. Having said that I had a time when I had an injury and pedaling was painful. Then my full grip throttle was a godsend. 40km commute is not fun at all with a thumb throttle. When it comes to hills, I live in BC, pedaling uphill at 30kph is pretty nice. As I like to say, having a CYC mid-drive with torque sensor is like getting on a bike to find out you have the strength of a Tour de France rider. I did do one major upgrade though. I added a Box 2 Components eWide drive train for eBikes. HUGE difference. Especially for the mountains I climb here. And I saved a lot on my build because the bike I used only cost me $270 CDN on Facebook Marketplace. That freed up the funds so I could buy a 52V/21Ah battery from Electrifybike. Top speed on flat road with a tailwind is 74.2kph. Just ordered my Gen 3 Stealth and an upgrade for my current Stealth to upgrade the crank. I'll compare them both. As far as the sound level is concerned, like you said, cars are much louder. I don't even notice the sound. The good thing about the sound however is when I am in town or on trails with other people they do hear me coming. That is a plus.
Hey John, thanks for the comment and the feedback. Its great to hear of a CYC motor doing well after so many KMs. That is a screaming deal you got on FB marketplace. Funny story. I actually had my first go with a Torque Sensor today as I was testing out my mates who was having some issues. I don't tend to ride much with the pedals so it was quite an enjoyable experience. We are definitely spoiled for places to ride here in BC! Keep us posted on the upgrades for the Stealth. Will be good to see how that goes.
It was following your advice over the last few years that got me interested enough to buy 2 bafang motors a bbshd and bbs02 poor health has stopped me from using them but it looks like I'll be well enough this summer to get on the trails .Thanks for the informative knowledgeable uploads.
Great to hear you are on the mend. Fingers crossed you get back in the saddle. Nothing else like it for mental health. Cheers
I have a modified BBSHD on a tiny Cannondale Trail 8 that uses all 1500 W to haul my fat butt up a very steep hill. I have terrible asthma and would never be able to get around my town without a motor. It helps so much that I was even able to ride a whole 26 miles in one trip, whereas before I couldn't go more than 5 blocks.
I really wish there were more DIY brands for these motors so Bafang would be pressured to update their stuff. I don't like a lot of the existing prefabricated ebikes for various reasons.
100% agree. Good to hear how your bbshd helps you get about! Thanks for posting.
Very interesting. I have been riding a modified BBSHD bike using a Phaserunner for a while now. Despite running it regularly at 5kW (yes it will handle that just fine for short periods), and for over 4000 km, the only failure has been the nylon reduction gear which I have upgraded to a peek plastic gear. I am building a new bike now and was looking at both power plants. I think I will stick with the BBSHD, mainly because of just how much cheaper it is and the value and reliability that you get for it.
Cheers Sigma. It's a very solid motor. Not perfect but with the PEEK in there is pretty close. Watch out for the sustained high temps as eventually you can compromise the stator.
Does the Phaserunner allow you to utilize field weakening for similar advantages to the ones mentioned in this video with the High Voltage upgrade kit?
Another great video full of research and knowledge. It is a great time to be alive. Mr. HV got me feeling like a kid again. Cheers mate.
Awesome! Catch you on Discord mate.
Man l glad the hotrod bike community has you
Thanks Chris! Cheers
You make awesome videos Dude, I like the way you give each motor there strength and weakness, I was considering Bafang for my project but when I saw the X1 Stealth I fell in love. So I have no experience in mid drives and I just jumped right into X1 and seeing this video does not make me regret but make me want to convert my fat bike with a BBSHD. Maybe my next project. Keep on producing these very well made videos.
Thanks very much. Means alot to hear this. Cheers
You presented all of this great info really well, thanks! I'm about to make a choice between the Stealth Gen 3 and BBSHD, and I'm consuming as much info as I can to try and avoid as many pitfalls as possible.
Cheers Mark. Good luck with your build. You are welcome on our Discord.
bang on the nail even if bafang did 3 or 4 different bottom bracket to motor casings say standard then +20-25mm incriments would make the bafang useful for loads of bike frames it does not currently fit well....Or at all!
Yeah. I would settle for a few cms more room. Would make all the difference.
I have both motors as well. The bbshd is silent ( close to it ). The cyc is a little noisy. The pedal torque sensor on the cyc I think is better. The ground clearance is better on the cyc ( either way you mount it ). My opinion it’s personal preference, and depends on what your intentions are . My cyc set up has a 60v battery, and my Bafang is 52v . Personally I prefer the build quality on the cyc.
Joe i want to get the Cyc for my 52v battery stealth bike. How is it with mph and how many miles would I get?
Its pretty efficient as a motor. In terms of range it's a function of battery capacity and style and speed of riding. If you go flat out then just like in a gas car the energy will be used faster.
i run both and love both, bbso2 for commuter cyc stealth for bike park and single track. yes bafang would be the motor to rule them all, if they had torque sensor.
Yup. Lots of people want this. It would be a huge earner for them. Scratch my head as to why they won't.
I think the ultimate game changer would be...use the bbshd as a fixe...to utilize regen.
Take out the clutch system and use a torque sensor bottom bracket...while using the asi 855 paired with a lightweight battery. With a gates belt drive 29er plus bike. Only if I had the funds.
Quite the wishlist! Make for a badass bike!
This is the best comparison video of these 2 very popular mid drives. I think someone far smarter than me should try and make an aftermarket upgraded BBSHD motor, that can match these aftermarket controller power limits. Maybe by doing that, a torque sensor could be fashioned in the remodeled motor core.
Would be like printing money!
Awesome video great seeing both builds. each have a place in my garage, I find the x1 needs high rpm to put down power versus the bbshd which has more go power down low, haven't finished my bbshd bac855 build have the kit ready.
Yeah. That is a pretty good assessment of it. The sweet spot with the CYC is 15kph to 50kph. You really feel it accelerate there.
@@HighVoltageKits still prayers for a torque sensor bbshd! Can't imagine that with your bac855, dreaming!! Planning to buy or build g510 this fall.
I have the Sobowo A8-R mountain bike and wondering if CYC photon would work on this ebike
I had a quick look and I can't see any show stopping reason why not. Looks a pretty cool frame actually. You will need to get the right size for the bottom bracket. Probably at least the 100mm version
Thank you very much
I thought you guys were selling BBSHD upgrade kits but I didn't hear anything about it in this video and you made the cyc look pretty good (:
We do when we can get controllers. The component supply issues are really causing problems right now. The video was not really about one better than the other as both have advantages. But if you want something right now CYC is an option. The video was not really about pushing what we do and more of an overview of the differences between the two mid drives. Cheers
Best comparison I have seen. Thanks for your thorough explanation of the differences.
Thanks Luke, you are most welcome
Great video! So you are saying if I go with the Bafang Mid Drive Kit... that I should basically use it with 1 gear / sprocket? I just watched another video where a guy was saying he destroyed the back gears while switching with the Bafang. Is that right?
I wonder what people think or experience people have with running the cyc at full power through an internal geared hub like the shimano alfine 8, or ebike design Shimano 5 speed IGH hub, or a Rolhoff 14 speed(at 7x the cost of a shimano Alfine 8), or even a thru axle compatible Enviolo / Nuvinci 380° IGH ($500 and supposedly only rated for 500w)?
The strength of the drive train/ chain being the most common hesitation I read about the high power motors being the reason I'm wondering. I've run the weaker Shimano nexus 8 Sg-8R31(not the redband) and the Shimano Nexus 3sp SG-3R40 as the drive train with a shift kitted(jack shafted) 50cc 4 stroke motorized bicycle with no problems. I ran the KMC EHX Z1 1/2" chain, which is super beefy, strong, and heavy... as strong as some 415H chains, and I would argue possibly even nearly on par with some 420 chains. Also there is the fact you could run a 415H chain on most if not all of these hubs(it may not allow you to use the smallest cogs[13t, 14t, or 15t] on the hub cassette but you can use this heavy duty rated chain on IGH hubs).
Granted, I know how to service internal geared hubs and keep them maintained.
I also know how to shift the hubs to make sure the torque from the motor doesn't quickly cause wear the internal parts or all out destroy them... It's a bit like driving a manual transmission motorcycle or car. You just dont have a clutch to engage... you completely let off the throttle, then upshift or downshift to the desired gear. Once the hub has definitely engaged the desired gear, you engage the throttle again.
Making sure you use quality shift cables that are set up correctly(and monitored to make sure the cable(s) stay set up correctly), following through on the shifting method I mentioned, and maintaining the lubrication of the hub... I believe make them easily capable of handling the high-powered middrive ebike motors with the chains I mentioned... thoughts?
I have heard of folks getting away with it. The issues I think are shifting under load. I would not risk the ultra expensive rohloff. Also who needs all those gears really. I'd get a cheap nexus and start there.
@High Voltage I recently got a brand new Alfine 8(the newer model 7001 not the 501) 36h with shifter, cable, cassette joint unit, 2 cogs, 4 no turn washers for $200... basically, the only thing it didn't have was the center lock disc rotor, which I already had. It's what I plan to use for a CYC full suspension ebike build. I have this vintage sweet chain tensioner / guide that bolts to ISCG chain guide tabs(or an ISCG tab adapter). It's called ROOX roller coaster chain guide. I've customized it with a stronger spring,beefier jockey wheels, and bushings/spacers so it will take wider chains. I haven't decided on a frame yet. I keep changing my mind between frames for 26", 27.5" or 29" wheels. No matter what, the frame has to allow for at least 2.5", maybe even 3" wide tires.
Thanks for your in depth opservation - I have a rather new Reynolds bike with Nexus 8sp IGH, Magura hidraulic rim brakes, heavy as hell so I will have to motorize it considering my old age, but still want to go pedals assisted as long as possible, and want to be capable of doing at least 60 km in one direction and then charge it for the return, and your suggestions are very helpful, thanks
Excellent comparison review. Love your channel!
Thank you! Cheers
Nice comparison video! I am looking at options for a CYC build. Have you seen anyone use a 3 speed hub with this motor? looks like a .75/1/1.33 ratio. Would this be a wide enough gear range?
I think I have seen one. You have to watch the high torque. Shifting under load is probably not wise. There are some new hubs coming out like the Revolute but they are expensive. Gear range it should be ok.
Can’t wait to get my upgrade kit.
Yeah! The delays with controllers have been very frustrating for us. Hope to hook you up as soon as possible!
Hello, thank you for your expertise on these motors.
I plan to use my bike for food delivery around the city, traveling at least 80mi/day. Which of the two would be best for long term, daily use?
Or would you recommend a newer motor from cyc or bafang or anyone else? Thank you for your time.
The BBSHD is hard to beat for sheer reliability and repairability here. Other options are hub motors if you do not have many hills. There are lots of options but if you are converting a delivery type bike the BBSHD is a good choice. Plenty of torque and power. It will not have the same feel as the Torque sensing CYC but you can depend on it day after day and in the unlikely event of issues you can repair it quickly and cheaply especially if you have a few spares about. Its worth following Eurobike as well as there should be quite a few new motors on there as well!
It’s cool that there are options, but we need a refresh of the current line up. Bafang is disappointing because of everything you said and yet they ignore a community that is free R&D. I love my BBSHD and it’s on stock controller at 52V. I am building a Bafang Ultra M620 Chinese carbon fat bike, I wish I had options on that Ultra…It would be cool if someone made parts to reduce the weight of the BBSHD and the Ultra M620.
Cool video
We have a kit out for the ultra more info on this soon. Could not agree more tho! Cheers
@@HighVoltageKits yeah I have been waiting for the Ultra news….my problem is that my battery is in my frame, so moving up to a 72v is not practical for my application. I would be happy to just be able to program it like my BBSHD. Once I programmed the BBSHD, it was like a different motor. I’m pretty happy with the power for the most part, I just want to be able to dial in my PAS to feel perfect (for me). All that being said, I do play to run 2 batteries at times on the fatty. I have a DATEX2 that I use now on my BBSHD and love the extended range and sustained power.
Great channel BTW
@@Todd66 someone might be able to build you a 72v battery that fits your bike
@@arronjohnston742 that might be a option, hopefully battery tech will pick up some speed. Having limited space for batteries kinda sucks.
@@Todd66 having carbon? frame limits things a lot that's why i said maybe someone can built one to go in place of the old one, best of luck anyway bud
I see why you guys are working on your own motor/controller combo. The Surron setup for me is more ideal in design than either of these two. The idea of a big powerful motor/controller + 1:1 gearing is ideal.
More on the Sur Ron after the weekend. More drive train testing.
You make a good point, although the surron is a motorcycle first and a bicycle last (if you have the pedal kit). As for a conversion, it's tricky coming up with a solution for a bike which was never intended to have a motor on it 😄
Great video comparison. I learned some new things. 🤙
For me I need the installation versatility of CYC for my bike. However it’s also about $250 more expensive. Also CYC has not responded to any of my emails. If they’re not responding to presale communications I have doubts about the support they will give after the sale.
I have a feeling they are spread pretty thin. Their customer service in the past has been good. Not sure if that's changed of late. I hope not.
@@HighVoltageKits They did get back to me and reassured me that they’re here. Great 👍
Good stuff
One year on from this and im just wondering if you could now only choose of if these motors stock which would you go for? Great channel 🍻
Thanks. That's a tough question, especially now there is the TOSEVEN motors and a torque sensing bbshd the 635 being released. The CYC is also now in its 4th Generation. My favourite is still the modified bbshd which is not stock though. Stock the bbshd is less than half the price more reliance and much quieter. I'm not sure I've been much help here.
@@HighVoltageKits great help thanks 🍻
you hit the nail on the head about there needing to be a kit that combined the quietness/ruggedness of the bbshd and torque sensing of the x1 pro. bafang are fools not to make a bbhd with torque sensing. there is obviously a big market gap. is it too much to expect a quiet 1500w motor with torque sensing. i for one am put off from buying either kit due to their massive inherent flaws.
Its disappointing for sure that they did not upgrade the BBSHD in a meaningful way. There is a third generation of the CYC being shipped right now though so I am hopeful that some of the issues with that system in terms of reliability will be resolved.
Thank you HV! You helped me make up my mind. BBSHD FTW!
Glad I could help. Feel free to join our Discord if you want help with the build!
In comparing these interesting parameters one missing category I'm interested in and curious about, and that's implementation cost / bang for the buck. A cursory glace appears to show one costing about three times the other but I realize that's not the end of the story because you mentioned that with one, more additional parts needed to be purchased.
Another curiousity is the comparative ease and comfort of peddling a distance in the case of power being unavailable.
The cyc on paper is about $300 cheaper depending on options. However it can also require more work and on balance not last as long. So over time I'd say the bbshd would work out cheaper. Much depends on the cost of the frame or donor bike as well in terms of needing extra parts. Hope this helps a bit. Cheers
@@HighVoltageKits
Thanks, that's encouraging! I don't know why the bafang came up between 5 and 6 hundred dollars and the cyc at 16 to 17 hundred. 🤔 That's looking on Amazon.
Perhaps you should team up with cyc to build that dream motor that we all want taking the best of both worlds of bbshd and x1 pro and combining them into a new motor but just leave bafang the company out of the equation since they turned their backs on us DIY'ers
The idea that Bafang would co operate with me is pretty much non existent. CYC I think will continue to develop things. So it will be interesting to see what they do over the next little while.
@@HighVoltageKits perhaps cyc can do their version of the bbshd for their second format form of motor but only better.
Potentially. I'm not sure what their plans are.
@@robw5735 .... watch the space
I wish you can do a comparison of the phase runner vs asi bac 855.
Thanks for sharing your thoughts.👍
I would need one. It's essentially the same platform though. Its ASi hardware. Not quite as powerful tho as less heat sinking.
I refer many people to this video to help decide. Cheers Mate. 🥰
Cheers Gizmo. Hope island life goes well 🙏
@@HighVoltageKits It's not too bad 😍
Extremely useful video, thank you!!
You are welcome. Cheers
One day i'll try cyc. Testing the crap out of the BBSHD right now.
Good stuff! The rabbit hole runs deep
Sounds cool. Are they both good with hill climbing? I'm getting this for hauling a trailer and going across town. Bike touring is something I'd like to do too.
Loads of people use the bbshd for touring as it's possible to maintain on the road. Both have plenty of power for hill climbing though.
@@HighVoltageKits Is it harder to maintain speed with the cyc?
Not really. I mean mine is throttle only but it will sit between 50-60 with ease. It's a bit of a unique setup but I don't think it's any different to the newer stuff in that respect. You have to watch it with heat buildup a bit. The latest version is supposed to have better temperature control and we will see how that goes as reviews come in.
Do you find yourself burning through that plastic gear by upgrading your BBSHD controller?
I'm still on my original one on the fatbike. I am very careful with my gearing with a 1:1 ratio and let the RPMs do the work.
I just received an x1 stealth after waiting months only to discover that my controller is bricked. Customer service has been a joke, it took a week to get back to me and I was nagging them. Now I need a new controller and it's not clear how that will proceed. They seeem to have known there was a controller issue because the manual discusses Bricked controllers and it now appears that they shipped the controllers without testing them probably because there was a backlog of orders. It took 3 months to get my kit and now I don't know what will happen with the controller replacement. Good times 😭😭
That sucks Doug. I'd be shocked if they sent them out without testing. Seems like an own goal. I'm not sure what to say. Their customer service has always been good from what I have heard. A week seems excessive though. They will replace it and not abandon you. Obviously this does nothing to alleviate your frustration and disappointment. Keep me posted please. You are welcome on our Discord server. The Facebook groups are good as well. Perhaps it's worth posting and seeing if it is truly bricked. Easier to help you on discord as you can post photos and video clips etc. Feel your pain!
@@HighVoltageKits I'm waiting to hear back from them now. Should be about 6am so hopefully they will see my latest email. I sent them screenshots of the app and tried to install the XML files they sent to no avail. I have no throttle or PAS.
They suggested that I send the controller back to HK and they would examine it and maybe send a new one. Who gets to pay for that? Shipping stuff to China is $$$.
Have you tried posting on the cyc Facebook group. There is a chance it's something simple like location settings not turned on. Also the plugs for the main harness and halls are pretty similar is it possible they were mixed up. I heard of this happening before. It's worth a try. Not sure on shipping.
@@HighVoltageKits when I first tested the bike I had PAS and throttle and after tweaking the app I managed to get throttle only but later nothing worked. The app would refuse any changes sometimes and not at other times. This morning I tried to install the XML files and the app just clicked and blinked and wouldn't go any farther. The manual talks about bricked controllers and says to call support. Why would you put that in your manual unless you knew there was an issue. I thought it was strange at first but now think they were expecting problems. They are controlling the dialogue on this by stating that ASI? Should not be contacted about controller issues. This is at the bottom of their emails to me.
Yeah the ASI structure means dealers ie CYC have to sort these issues. I suspect you have run into the issue where the controller switches blue tooth frequency. It's not essentially bricked but recovery cannot be performed on your end. At least that's my educated guess based on what you mention. Changing some settings in the app seems to cause this.
You could add another crank on the other side so the side can charge your battery while the other crank can switch gears or use the throttle
I am not quite sure I follow. In general the charging while moving stuff tends not to add much value as they are a drain themselves on the system. Unless you mean something else?
Hi Mr. High Voltage ! i am building my own e-bike . i like the look of the egg rider v2 display . my frame is a old mtb non suspension frame from bianchi . i want to use the bbshd motor too on my build . can you recommend the missing parts in example the controller , the battery ? do you still prefer bafang setup before cyc setup ?
We produce a full upgrade kit for the BBBSHD which has both the ASI controller, Eggrider and everything else you will need. We have about a two month waiting list on it at present. If you would like to learn more you are welcome to join our discord community where there are lots of riders using this kit. Personally I prefer my BBSHD bike but there is alot to say for CYC who out of the two companies are really the only ones left innovating in the DIY field.
I know this question is unrelated to your video.
I had a clutch failure, 3 miles from home which wasn't ideal.
I have a BBSO2, I was wondering if there are other options of clutch available. As the design isn't great, for example if there was 4 Pawls instead off 3 and it was designed like the Hope rear hub it would be bomb proof.
What are your thoughts.
DT Swiss stuff is good. We are going to try one my friend has just picked up soon. The less gears the stronger. Steel is the way to go I think. There are options other than Pawls but not an area I have investigated too much. 4 would be stronger for sure. Let me know what you decide on.
At the rear I have a Rohloff speedhub which has covered more than Ten thousand miles. This system works great, it is very expensive. The Speedhub can handle lots of torque as long as the sprocket that is selected isn't to low which can damage the Speedhub,15 or 14 sprocket is usually ok.
The BBSO2 could be greatly improved in certain areas, such as a better clutch and easier access to the clutch for repair or maintenance.
Sorry I misunderstood. That is good to know on the speedhub. In terms of the bbso2 clutch there are no other options I'm aware of than to replace it.
Hello high voltage and viewers. I love my bafang mid drive except when I turn it off or set PAS to 0. Then I feel a lot of drag in the pedals. Has anyone else experimented with this to get home on a dead battery?
The only times I have run out of power it has sucked to get home. Ended up pushing or calling the wife! You can do it but its a slog especially with only one gear.
I had to choose the cyc because the bafang would not fit in my frame. Im very happy with my decision
Awesome! Some of the best full sus frames simply will not take a BBSHD due to the restrictions. Cheers
How natural does the pedal assist feel? Is it easy to change gears without damaging them and the chain?
@@happygiraffe9787 in you use the Power of the Motor with care there is no problem with shifting. But chains only hold 1000km. The pedaling feels very natural because you have a torque sensor
@@Sur_racer I wonder if the rear cassette and chain can be switched to bit more robust components.
@@happygiraffe9787 i have a steel gears and chain. My freewheel body is aluminium and the gears damaged it and there are Not removabel anymore
Which creek's rubber is yr favourite (for comfort)?
I'm using the one it came with..I'm pretty light. Seems to work good so far.
Will a 42 t 28 t be okay on a standard 1000w Bafang 52 v 27 inch wheels ? If I make it single speed
Yeah I think so. Stock does work better with gears though especially if you will be going up any steep stuff.
fantastic review, its a bbshd for me.
They make great bikes for sure! Cheers
Can you run these on bikes with out gears?
You have to have at least one sprocket at the back. Or figure out a way to use a belt. But if you mean just have one gear rather than a cassette then yes that is totally doable. It is better with the modified BBSHD though if you want to do this. The CYC performs better with gears for sure. Stock the BBSHD you really want to use gears with as well.
You seen that newest motor? Like big Bottom Bracket..made my guys who make mars rovers.. small in our terms.. but will get bigger..
I have not seen it. Those Mars rovers lasted a long long time in a very inhospitable environment though so they must be pretty good! Do you have a link you can post?
Hello, high voltage I have a question would it be possible to pair the CYC X1 PRO with a Rhollof e14 rear gear ???
I would not risk it. The torque I think is above the safe limits for it. They are a damn expensive thing to break. Brilliant tho! I would love to use one one day. I am not sure the 14 gears would be needed. There is a much cheaper Sturmy archer 3 spd that is rated up to 3000w but have not tried it myself. I would like to go IGH one day if I can free up the time. Cheers
I believe that the Rolloff has plastic pins inside that are designed to snap before the hub gets toasted. And the repair is about $100 to replace the pins.
That is a relief...Cause they are like $1500!
@@HighVoltageKits is the cyc one speed or gradual on the throttle ? doe you know where I could buy carbon fiber frames from for a nice dyi project ?
Ali express do endless cheap carbon frames. As the quality though.... In terms of speed the throttle is variable and how many gears is up to you at the back.
Excellent review. Congratulation and thanks so much.
You are most welcome. Cheers
I'm seriously considering the CYC. Anyone know what the main differences between the pro and the stealth are? In terms of actual use, not just specs. I assume the stealth will have a lower effective top speed, but would it also be less capable going up hills?
Power and heat shedding. It's not a throttle it all out for ages motor. More a powerful pedal assist with throttle boost. If that makes any sense?
@@HighVoltageKits Cool, thanks. I mostly commute short distances with my current e-bike, a 500 watt hub drive. It's ok but would like more power and a bit more speed. Something that could hit 35-40mph would be fine. I also want some degree of cargo capacity, maybe even pull a small trailer with it. If it was just me and the bike I'd probably go with the stealth, but sounds like I might benefit from the added power when hauling extra weight.
Thanks for the reply, have watched quite a few of your videos, good content.
Is the noise of the cyc that loud or irritating. Can you talk to the person riding with you or is it too loud for that
It's not loud, more high-pitched. So definitely in the annoying area for some folks.
Does the setup menu show an option for 24" wheels? Im building a 24" and I want to be sure before I order a CYC Stealth that it can be setup for 24" wheels. Thank you.
The app will let you do this for sure.
@@HighVoltageKits Thank you!
Welcome
Excellent Video- Thank You
You are most welcome
If the BBSHD is pulling 3.5kW at just 55kph, that means it's losing 2 - 2.5kW to field weakening. That seems hard to believe. Would a stock BBSHD that hasn't been hot-rodded be able to reach near 55kph maxing out at 1kW?
What do you mean by losing? A stock BBSHD can hit 55kph and I did. On the flat though with zero headwind and after a long time. With 3.5kw and field weakening it will hit that speed in a few seconds. On a hill the stock motor will struggle to get up to 30kph and accelerate like a three legged donkey. The modified bike will hit 50 and pull like a train still. Its a different animal and geared in a different way to stock. The extra power is not lost as such, it's creating the fun.
@@HighVoltageKits at 8:35 you state that "you're going along at 55kph and you're dumping 3500W into the motor still". Since it only takes 1-1.5kW to maintain 55kph against wind/rolling resistance, I interpreted that as 2-2.5kW being lost to field weakening.
You should do a video for the spare parts you should buy for the bbshd.
That's a good idea. I will add it to the list of things to work through. Cheers
I have a felt brougham fixie/single speed I want to convert and then get a trek dual sport 3 and convert it. Probably will go with bbshd that comes with 46t and will get the 52v 21ah battery, what single rear gear should I put on my single speed so I do not to overheat the motor and at the same time able to be pretty fast and go uphill on asphalt?
I'd go as big as you can. 42t maybe if you are modifying it. If this is a stock build maybe a 24-28t
@@HighVoltageKits will probably get the programming cable, but that won’t help too much, I’ll put 28t, not to kill the motor and still have power/speed on continuous riding
I like the seat mount on your CYC bike.
Thanks. That's the cane creek Thudbuster
Do you think the Juggernaut XD from Biktrix is essentially what you were talking about in having the best of both worlds?
Its a damn good bike. Not in the same league power wise. But A good bike non the less. I'd buy from them.
Can you set the settings low on the cyc bike so you get a workout still?
I'm on gen 1 where pas was a bit crap. But I believe it's doable with the Gen 2 stuff
Where did you get that suspension seat post? I want one
Its called a thud buster by Cane Creek
Great video! Torque sensing is absolutely crucial for me, so I’m hesitating between the x1 Stealth and the TSDZ2. The Stealth addresses all the shortcomings of the TSDZ, except for noise. But these are 2 different motors. One is 750w, the other is 1500w. I wonder how they compare in sound if the x1 is restricted to 750w. What are your thoughts? (Btw, since you have a gen 1, they have since come out with brass gears, which I’ve read seems to help with noise).
The cyc is still more noisy at low speeds. Its the pitch of the motor and the tension wheel on the chains. The brass makes a small bit of difference but not much
@@HighVoltageKits Thank for the reply!
@@HighVoltageKits just the be clear, the motor is just as loud at 750w as 1500w?
I mean it's a bit quieter but not like say the bbshd which is almost silent at low rpms
@@HighVoltageKits yeah, the TSDZ is very quiet as well at the low RPMs. But it needs so many upgrades (open source firmware, temp sensor, heat dissipation mods, upgraded chainrings, upgraded cranks, 860c display) to have the features the X1 Stealth has straight out of the box. And here in Canada, the TSDZ2 (+ the upgrades) and the X1 stealth are virtually the same price. Seems like the X1 stealth is a no brainer….
im considering x1 stealth because its newer than bbshd and comes with up to date hardware compared to bbshd so does x1 stealth have same problems like this x1 pro?
The X1 stealth is a different beast. I have heard great things tho. Its not meant for long periods of flat out riding. But its very compact and packs a punch. Due to the Torque system it is very responsive on trails etc. So its going for the more powerful version of the Bosch bikes. No system is perfect but it is their latest design so lessons learned have been incorporated. The CYC facebook group is a great place to get more information.
How does Cyclone 3kW compared to them?
Not 100% sure. Only going on a few reports but in general not as much power and a harder install. Not many examples to go on. We have a category for it on discord but not many riders using it.
The cyc looks like a beast...the bike I mean...so clean.
Is there anyway to get it to run quieter☹️
Not really. Two chains and the idler are hard to hide. Here is footage up some 8-10% grades ua-cam.com/video/R_aXSMew0Bg/v-deo.html
I just installed a CYC X1 Pro using brass gears. I was super concerned about the noise but the noise is not bad at all. When I pass people walking on paths I have to get within say 15 meters before they react. For me, who was seriously concerned about noise, it’s a non- issue.
Do you have any thoughts on Tongshen TSDZ2 kits?
Never used one. I heard less powerful and reliable than a bbshd but it has torque sensing. Parts are harder to get etc.
The Kranked Hyperdrive looks so much cleaner and I believe it produced more power-performance.
Not familiar. You got a link?
Looks fantastic. Just way overpriced.
I’m still loving my Cyc Captain.
Thats great to hear!
im pretty new to diy ebikes, im about to build my first one, but couldnt you just put both motors on one bike to get the best of both worlds and end the comparisons??
The bottom bracket sizes are different which prevents me doing this on my bikes. Otherwise yes it would be an option.
One problema with bbs02 and bbshd its the diference in offset to get pedals centered underneath you. I have bbs02 and I think its the worst caracteristic of this type of motor.
It can be hard. Lekkie make a good offset crank which helps with this.
Is the low end torque improved?
On which motor? The modified BBSHD for sure its improved. The CYC Gen 2 its the same cause the motor itself has not changed in size or type.
@@HighVoltageKits I was thinking about the new stealth 3 version
There must be a limited market for these high powered bicycles, many countries limit what is allowed and places to ride them.
While there are places that are getting very harsh on ebikes. Usually due to the actions of a few idiots many places are more sensible. Its pretty easy to restrict a bikes speed and power to comply with regulations. I'm trying to steer things towards having a light electric vehicle class. Might be an uphill battle but I'm going to do it anyway. Here in Canada there is a great deal of offroad as well. Lots of people like to be able to ride at the legal 500 / 750 assist and get a boost offroad. I hope laws change. In reality those motors that the bike makers claim are 250 are actually much more powerful. The regulations are a mess but there is hope in alot of places.
so the cyc is much the same(more refined obviously) as the cyclone except the cyclone has nylon reduction gears which makes it almost silent and a cheap controller, i'd love to run something like the 219 chain drive on my cyclone (needs to have a choice of tooth count tho) 219 chain ring with the ability of the 130BCD spiders 👌👌👌 even a belt drive might be cool for that part of the drive system because that's kinda where the cyclones fall on there ass, they use a free wheel bmx style sprocket on the motor an while it's good allowing you to peddle with the motor off an not turn a dead motor it does get annoying swapping them out plus that cog is designed for 1/8 chain an i run 415 EK mc chain for reduced chain stretch issues ......... thanks for the review 👍👍👍
You are welcome. Some great points made. Thats another one that could be great but has flaws. Cheers
@@HighVoltageKits yeah they have there issues with cheap bolt ons but they're cheap so a great experimental base for activities 😉😂
Bbshd mı en fazla ne kadar yükseltebilir ?
What language is this so I can translate it anyone?
@@HighVoltageKitsbbshd How much can I raise?
@@HighVoltageKits😂 Turkish
How many km is the maintenance of bbshd?
I'm going to do mine after 8k lol. Some recommend every few thousand KMs. It can be worth greasing the main gear if you think it's sounding dry and you can do that without removing the motor.
@@HighVoltageKits I have passed 8 thousand km, there is no dry sound, some do not start the engine until 15 thousand km, I do not know which one is healthy.
I don't think there is a rule of thumb. I will do mine this year. Mostly cause I want to see what it's like in there.
@@HighVoltageKits Thanks for your reply Greetings from Turkey
You are welcome. Back at you from Canada!
is that a Bafand BBSHD 1000w? or 500 or 750
In my case it's a bbshd 3500 watt..In reality all bbshd are the same inside. It's controller limited at 750 watts etc
@@HighVoltageKits I find that hard to believe. 250w vs 1000w is almost double the price. im sure there is upgraded components
Honestly Mike. I have never seen a 250watt bbshd or a 500 watt one. The only 750 watt one Bafang did was the BBS02. That's a different motor tho. The BBSHD or BBS03 (same thing) is sold as 750 watts. All they do is lock the controller to 20 amps. They are usually sold as a kit with a cheaper battery etc. If you were to rip off the controller to the best of my knowledge you could hot rod one like any other..As long as it is a BBSHD. The internal structures like gears etc will be the same.
So you are saying that the cyc will rip apart a drive train
At 5kw it will destroy things. You need a solid hub and sprockets and ideally a clutched derailleur to attempt it.
Your comments on how best to waterproof the Bafang BBSHD would be appreciated.
There are a few videos in the list on waterproofing things mostly for our upgrade kits. A stock bbshd should be pretty solid though. It should handle wet no problem. Full submersion too long and the fibre gaskets might suffer.
We’re do I find a bac controller for decent money
Tough right now. There are resellers online but they are a premium. We have no stock till June / July as of now. The larger BACs are more available. The 855 is very hard to get. Mostly due the semi conductor and component shortages!
Off the start I will say the Bafang is the quietest of them all - because they designed it with helicon nylon gears. I do not tolerate loud winning motors. Also, may I add, Bafang's cadence advance or downshifting is natural and smooth. Unfortunately you will not get this experience on the CYC. Thirdly, the Bafang's "mean time before failure" is much longer than many other electric motors 0 and parts are easily obtained. Fourthly, the control back-lite large color monitor is un-matched. Fifthly, you have a wealth of 3rd party added value products and accessories. OMG, do I need to go on? Ok, let me go on for just one more, do you think Bafang is standing still? There are 2 new versions of motors on the drawing board - one will make its appearance this year, 2023. These will have an upgraded internal mechanism, and controller. I think Bafang should allow an open-source platform (encourage mechanical and a API (application development interface) ) for certain motors that will allow 3rd parties to get in the mix - this would be great for overall product development for both the 3rd party and Bafang while creating "all roads lead to Bafang." It just makes business sense to do this.
The point you make on motor use efficiency at: 7:15 is true with the configuration you show. Overall, the Bafang has a superior armature/field magnets design regardless of "field weakening." Dude, I am sounding like a salesperson - please stop me. The controller is smarter to know when things are getting hot and will give the heads up and adjust.
About Torque sensing: CYC has the clear advantage here.
Hey Bobcatt, thanks for the comment. Your information on the motor was interesting. When you say new models are we talking the bbshd here or another bafang motor. There m625 revision was terrible. They do have quite a big product line but apart from the ultra they are lower power. If they are making a true succesor to the BBSHD that's great. It looks like cyc are going at this market as well with their proton and photon. It should be an interesting year for sure!
Hi there HighVoltageKits - the M625 will either be scrapped or modified - with a different series - model. The problem with Bafang is they have different Dev groups competing. There are both advantages and inherent problems with this business model. Bafang is going after the Bosh space. This means they will have to be accepted by major bike manufacturers to allow integration of the Bafang system (Bafang would be a factory install by a major manufacturer). Things are surely moving fast.
Bafang wins the overall *best esthetics and IDE of the controller monitor* - hands down. This is very attractive to the public who has grown close to mobile phone apps.
*About 3rd-party API* : If I were in development for Bafang, I would create an API for 3rd parties (where they would have the incentive) so they can build a "junction box." This would allow other products -accessories to be integrated. For instance a regenerative braking use, Garmin, or to see on a screen a tachometer of the rpm of the motor.
On another note, *the super capacitor* will also be a component for these motors, where the acceleration ramps up amperage, the Caps can be of real use to efficiency. Use Caps to compliment batteries storage.
12:40..Yup..love that noise...sounds like a jet
At lower speed it sounds like the vehicles from the Jetsons cartoon! Showing my age there lol
@@HighVoltageKits bwahaha
The noise is growing on me!
Love the cyc so far, wrecking cassettes and only managing 1350 Watts... But it's worth it!
@@jewels18261 wrecking cassette's lol...only 1300w lol....it's enough
@@ricksanchez3628 heheh I'm a second hand scrooge by nature, these cyc motors... only need 3 or 4 gears anyway IMO
Yass you rock queen 🪨 👸
Cheers mate!
You forgot to mention great overheating of X1Pro compared to BBSHD. Many people have cooked their X1 rotors
I had to do a rotor replacement on mine. They were of an old style however. I don't have any real idea of the scale of the issue or circumstances with Gen 2 so its not fair for me to speculate too much in this video. In the same vein people also break their nylon gearing in the BBSHD if its not setup correctly for running High Power. I don't have a Gen 2 CYC and supposedly the rotors have been upgraded significantly for that platform. I do mention that overall it remains to be seen if the CYC can do 8000 km maintenance free like the BBSHD often does. Thanks for the comment.
Well Gen 3 is already out and magnets are not falling out anymore, or so they said.
I hope so. I suspect part of it is the new vesc is limiting rpm. 13,000 rpm and increasing heat is not a good mix for glued on magnets. I still don't understand why they don't key them
@@HighVoltageKits Yes, it seems they are learning from their mistakes and make upgrades. The magnets need to be part of the rotor frame, not glued on it.
I don't think it's changed structurally that way. Time will tell though.
I took a chance and bought 2 bbshds. I lose money if the bike is off the road for any reason. 30kph is more than I need inner city wise. Really, lectric bikes I use because they reduce injury and recovery time for the job...
Absolutely. It's this reliability and ease of repair that make it so good. They are great. Cheers
@@HighVoltageKits Aye! It's only the poor urban planning that makes leccy bikes generally a pain...There's only one place in inner city Liverpool I would trust parking up for any time, central station. Overwise I might use my bike more often.
Yes. Theft. I have a video series I'm working on to look at this. They would be used way more but for that
@@HighVoltageKits Not that I havnt had a fair few normal bikes nicked in the past! When your bike costs over a grand tho...!
100% Most of my trips are to and from work so I have a secure location. Locks are a deterant. But not much use. I think there is a better solution. Would take infrastructure investment tho
Why not put the CYC motor on your Fat Bike so you have a true experience comparison?
If you rode it you'd know. I know it would not have the same instant one gear grip and rip torque. But I understand it would be useful. I'd need a different version as it won't work on the 100mm bb. It's a bit much effort right now just for a quick comparison.
it's such a shame Bafang have the attitude they do towards their products. If they offered more options over their controllers it would be great. I have a stock 52v and it's locked at 28amps and even the programming cable can't change that. The motor has so much headroom it's crazy. They seem to want to completely discourage home builds - their updated motor is locked to their own battery via can bus and their own battery is stupidly large for many applications. I am surprised so few alternative controllers are available. I am sure one that fits exactly like the stock one but offered more power would sell like hot cakes
Yeah I had the same problem, also if you use a 48v battery, you will never get the max battery%, it reads around 70% when fully charged.
I flashed the 48v firmware, the current can now go to 30amps.
It was pretty easy to follow as well, just don't use the firmware they link to.
@@acelectricalsecurity how easy was it to flash the firmware? did you follow a guide or video? what firmware did you use? is the 2amps difference noticeable?
@@djneils100 there's a video on here from golden motors, I followed their tutorial however I used their firmware but it had issues and wouldn't let me alter the settings, they sent me a fix, but I had already got the correct firmware from a site called cycle Sphere, and the guy got that from bafang.
To be honest I didn't try the motor on 28amps I flashed it straightaway, it's only going to give you a few hundred extra watts depending on your battery, but every little helps😬
As has been mentioned you can bypass the 28 amps.. but you need to flash over the firmware.
@@HighVoltageKits thanks - I'm just not sure the extra 100w is worth the risk for me
Excelent
Cheers
More moving parts more problems I use theBBSHD no problems
Yeah. I mean technically it's not that much more but the BBSHD it's all enclosed in a gear box.
Ya have to get the Bafang motor from Luna Cycles 1500w if you want upgrades.
The issue there is you have to buy a luna bike. They won't just sell a controller. Fortunately we make our own that gives you up to 4kw of power. That means you can buy any old bbshd and do what you want with it. It's external tho so not quite as neat as having it as part of the motor. The benefit is better controller cooling so higher power.
@@HighVoltageKits and whats the cost of the controller?
Its 650 US for the full kit. No stock till late June tho due to component supply sadly. There are quite a few videos on the kit in the channel tho and you can also learn more on the upgrades via our Discord community.
@@HighVoltageKits Thanks, too rich for my blood, I do stuff on a budget and $650 for an upgrade kit is kind of steep.
I’m going to use a 96V 5000W 100A Sabvoton Sine Wave Programmable Controller. It will be all I need for an upgrade.
BBSHD !
FTW
I don't think you've flexed hard enough. I think you need a third X1 😉
If I got another CYC I would try the stealth I think. I like the idea of a bike to get a bike of actual exercise with as well!
@@HighVoltageKits the idea you think a stealth is more of a fitness motor proves how much of a throttle lover you are haha. Go find a stock TSDZ2 😹
😆 I think you may have a good point there!
The War 10 k for lithium bike batteries in a year
13:10 Lightining Rods is the answer lmao
Bit more than 4-5kw tho!
@@HighVoltageKits isn't that the point though, everyone needs more power
Just ask Bruno!
@@HighVoltageKits "LOOOOOOK AT THIS POWERRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR" - Bruno everytime hes within 200m of a electric motor
@@chrishycki that's why I hope for a LR small block with torque sensing PAS
We are going back to 12 volt
Which got
Look Lithuim is. THREW
10 K FOR E BATTERY'S IN A YEAR