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Archery Form -01- The Wedge
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- Опубліковано 7 гру 2013
- ArcheryWinchester.com
This is a video I prepared for several Latin Countries when I was the coach of the Guatemalan Archery Team. It describes the basic form that is fundamental to Olympic Style archery, which is based upon great precision. All countries and top coaches use the basic ideas that I present here but I merely wanted to provide a more scientific description of how the for is established. There is a lot of background mathematics and biomechanics which I will spell out in future videos but this video shows the basics.
-Visit: ArcheryWinchester.com for more technical information about Archery.
I realize this was put out a few years ago, and I have no idea if you are still reading these comments, but I wanted you to know that this single thing solved my problem. I am new to traditional archery and it is TOUGH learning the bare bow. I used to shoot a compound (very easy comparatively). I want to thank you for making this video. It made a difference for me.
Thank you for your comment. It is good to know that my work is helping people.
Exactly the same for me
Immediately posted in my favorite links, ...simply the best explanation on this topic!
The years pass (now we are in 2022) but the satisfaction with this video remains, it means that you have really done a great job, my compliments!
Thank you. THis video is what happens when a nerd engineer /Archery coach puts both of his passions into one video. Before maing this video, I spent 20 years I was an aerospace engineer, both at Kennedy Space Center and at NASA centers around the country. Then I left to coach the Quatemalan archery team. I am also t a private advisory coach for many top archers around the world.. When an engineer/Coach puts together his ideas, he looks at the technical aspects from a truly scientific perspective. Thanks again.
I think this is the most scientific video for us learners in UA-cam
I started shooting archery at 12 years old. I'm 60 now, and after watching some of your videos, I think you are the best coach I have ever seen. And, I had a pretty good one.
Thank you so much! I realised I need to learn a lot about shooting still. Your teaching will improve my shooting so much.
Thanks again.
One of several wonderful clips by this person. The explanation is far better and clearer than I can do, so I refer my archers to view and understand what is being said. Many thanks.
A gold mine videos series, thanks!!!!!!
as an engineer, this is awesome
Another engineer here appreciating this explanation. Thanks for your knowledge
I periodically watch this just to remind myself of what to do correctly, awesome info.
I think you just solved my problem. It has been driving me nuts.
Thank you for this comprehensive easy to understand badly needed video .
i love this video. I started archery past a half year and my trainer wasnt be able to tell me how it works in good words. Now i know what my destination should be. Thanks a lot.
I just started with archery and was as the club I want to join is not taking new people in atm I did want to start.
So bought a bow and a target (with all the necessary safety stuff) and started teaching myself through these videos and NuSensei about how to shoot.
This helped me understand the positions a lot better :)
Thanks
Good afternoon. A big request - add a detailed text comment to this video (under the video). Not all listeners of the video are well-versed in English. Very interesting explanation.
Great training video. You explained it so well, this is going to help me. Thank you!
Thanks for the graphics. I'm a noob and this vid is gold!!
Wow! Frappin’ outstanding! I needed this so much. Thank you.
Best explanation yet, loving your videos. Now I just need to work on my stretches to get my neck to turn comfortably. Old man.
Thank you. I'm glad the video was helpful.
Even after decades of archery it is always good to remind yourself of these facts. Good form is good shooting...and carbon arrows help...
Totally awesome video. Instant improvement. Thank you.
Excellent video! Thank you very much!
Thanks, great video.
Do you have any tips for someone who has difficulty with his bow shoulder rising up during expansion? I think i'm currently shooting in "the wedge" configuration, but i have so much trouble with the bow shoulder.
hi! I think its an very interesting filosofy .I'm shooting in this way and I've adjusted my stance a little . my feet are standing closed and not in line with the target .this is to get my arrow in line with the target .I'm a bit puzzled about the feet I don't see any drawing of the feet in the diagram in the video . how should they be placed
keep up the good work !
As long as your hips are lined up with the schoulders, position of the feet is unimportant.
@@janvandermerwe4225 thank you, I was wondering the same thing
In the ideal position i can't turn the head enough to aim with the right eye. That's because i'm wearing glasses. As a right handed archer in the correct position my right eye tries to aim through the left glass. So i gotta reduce angles in order to to aim with the right eye through the right glass. Haven't found a solution for that yet.
I really like "The Wedge" but, I can not seem to make full allignement. My string hand is still a little bit forward. I've moved anchor point to the back. If I put it to full allignement, I have to push my head backwards and it does not seem natural to me.
Any suggestions?
The same issue bro
When I use "perfect" form, the theoretical "perfect" form, I keep slapping my forearm. I only employ a "slightly open" stance to avoid forearm slapping.
If I adjust my grip ("palm down" where most weight rest on my thumb) I can achieve a "perfect" form while stopping forearm slap.
My question: "palm down, fingers curled in, bow on thumb". Is there a better form I should try? How do I stop forearm slap while in "perfect" or neutral stance?
From what i understand try pointing the elbow you hold your bow with outwards so it is not pointing straight down, which should add additional clearance
I'm also getting forearm slapping trying as the video proposes. and yes I'm twisting my elbow out. I'm still futzing with basic form considerations as I'm on an old compound bow that doesn't have a draw stop and nobody I've asked in person had anything to say about how I should do anything other than it looks fine no matter what I do. More recently I'm also adapting to wearing glasses. Uncertainty soup. I should add I think I have very mobile joints so without an overhead perspective on myself I have no idea how straight out my arm is, and with a twisted out elbow that gets even harder.
Watched the series and tried it out over a few weeks, I am shocked how much easier my release is and the draw, I am so very grateful. Am I right in thinking that the line of the arrow is at 90 degrees to the shooting line so that means the feet alignment is at a slight angle i.e. not 90 degrees to the shooting line, or do you rotate the hip slightly. Subscribed to your channel, wish the club was closer!
I'm glad it helped. Most "release" problems are actually "alignment" problems - as you just discovered. Foot alignment is a hotly contested issue and I should do an entire video on that. It is certainly too much to go into here. But, since you asked. The US team, under Kisik Lee, uses the NTS method which has the feet off at a slight angle. So do the Koreans and many others. I like it, however, only if it is done correctly. The hips must be kept over the feet and all twisting must be done above the hips. This creates a lot of tension in the torso which keeps it rigid. I have seen it work wonders with many archers, particularly "floaters" who are not particularly stiff in their core/torso. I'm sure you've seen people drifting (floating) around in the torso. The key is that it is a tense torso position and stands in direct contrast to the concept that many people have of "Natural point of aim"... As you can see, I am going into too much for a simple comment response. I will work on a video for this topic. Watch. It will be up within the next month.
David Hilton what stance did you used?
Was an interesting question and interesting answer. Did you ever get around to making that video on foot alignment? It seems to me that the wedge form could almost call for the slight reverse of an open stance, i.e. a slightly closed stance, or does that introduce other problems?
Csn you make a video for a wheelchair archer. Or its just the same as other shooters?
GOOD!!!
I found my wedge by ignoring arrow flight and drawing till I got shaky then adjusted my form each shot, not releasing until stability was near perfect..with time and repetition, ignoring arrow oscillations and disappointing accuracy you will find the magic position..then and only then can you tune arrow flight with satisfying results..form then release then tune..
So is this a closed stance? Or do you just turn your hips with s square stance?
Really good thank you!
Just wondering if you will make a video on back tension? Been told all these thing by different people and when i think i have it, i been told i dont..
This is a question I recieve often, so it is on my list. I think it is an important issue, so please be patient. I hope to have one ready in about a month.
Thank you
I believe what you're looking for is full scapular abduction on the drawing side, so it's primarily a rhomboid function: acewebcontent.azureedge.net/exam-prep/2017/2017-05-02-exam-prep-blog-muscles-that-move-scapulae-scapular-movements.png
Hope this helps. "Back tension" is SUCH a vague statement, it irritates the crap out of me. I saw a similar thing in Jiu Jitsu. I've heard coaches yell out "HIPS, HIPS" in tournaments or say stuff like "more hip movement". Absolutely meaningless.
Thanks, that's very helpful. I have a question, so when you drawing, the hand alignment (your shoulders n arm) it doesn't form a straight line?
Please answer me
Drawing is not the problem. The anchor point is.
Master Class.
according to the angle of the torso, wouldn't the best stance to achieve the wedge be a closed stance? can someone reply to this please?
Yes, from a straight alignment perspective, but there are other factors to consider. I am working on a video to discuss this issue in detail since it is far more than I can go into here. You might note that the NTS method, used by the US national coach, actually starts with an open stance, which seems contrary to the wedge alignment goal. Yet, archers with the NTS method twist the torso above the hips to still attain this alignment. As I said, it is way too much to go into here so please wait for my future video. A quick answer is that an archer starting with the NTS open stance keeps his hips over the feet and turns only from above the hips. This creates a tension in the torso that makes the the stance more firm.
All sound 'classical' advice IF your anatomy will allow it. I had to make a conscious effort to get my weird bow arm shoulder down to keep it locked, and lost a season with a bad injury as a result. It's still not 100%. My advise is a) find a comfortable effortless way to shoot and concentrate on doing the exact same thing every shot. b) ignore everybody else's advice (including mine!)
I watched this a couple weeks ago with much interest. The explanation seems very thorough and the reasoning solid, but I cannot achieve a release that does not hit my nose! I am not trying to sight directly down the arrow. I just can't seem to turn my head enough to get my nose out of the path of the bowstring. It's possible my release is not so great, and it is pushing the string sideways and into my nose. But also I can't turn my head far enough so that the target is comfortably in my central visual area. I have to look to the side. I can feel the benefit as far as skeletal alignment vs. muscular work goes, but I definitely get tighter grouping with the old parallelogram stance, with less wrist and nose slap!
+jeffreyburr It sounds like you are bringing the string to the side of your nose. That is why it is hitting the nose upon release. Bring the string to the tip of the nose. From there, when you release the string it has only one way to go, away from the nose. Let me know if I am interpreting your situation correctly.
+ArcheryWinchester Ah yes, I should have mentioned I was anchoring at the corner of my mouth.
The corner of the mouth anchor is popular, especially for barebow shooters, but it has a problem - it is variable. Remember. 1 mm of variation at the anchor is 1 inch at 2o yards. 1/4 inch is 4-5 inches at 20 yards. The draw hand needs to be at the same position relative to the eye when at anchor. that's why so many archers use the tip of the nose and under the chin - more precise repeatability. Are you shooting brebow or with a sight?
+ArcheryWinchester Barebow.
+ArcheryWinchester thanks for the help.
I know this should not matter but... do you have the same presentation for the right handed archer?
You're right, it doesn't matter. Right and left hand are identical, just mirror images. I do find, as a seft handed coach, that it is often very easy for me to demonstrate actions for my archers because I stand right in front of them and show the actions while they watch as if they;re looking into a mirror. For this reason I often showanimated videos of left handed archers because the frontal view looks like a mirror image to the student archer. - However, to re-answer you question, it doesn't matter.
Do you recommend compound target archers use the same form? I don’t see why not...
Definitely. Except for the anchor position. Compound archers, who anchor further back, find this form, and the perfect alignment, easier to achieve..
Any videos out there to help compound archers get this form down?
Referred by Clay Hays.
Yes, This!
Should I use close stance?
Never having seen you shoot, and not knowing your form I cannot answer that question except to speak on a statistical basis. Most archers start with a neutral stance. In the past decade, with the NTS method being promoted in the US, many archers are moving to an open stance at the feet and hips and coiling at the torso so that their arms and shoulders are in line as I described in this video. The closed stance on the feet has the problem that most people find it a bit unstable and have a harder time keeping they proper posture and balance.
ArcheryWinchester I see. Maybe I could send you my form. I find this wedge form much more stable (less tremor) rather than parallelogram.
UA-cam.com/@Maestroarchery?sub_confirmation=1
Whoa dude
This is the wedge. I have spoken.
The picture doesn't seem completely right. Your arms aren't set back like that, their are in line with your breast. This affects the angle your standing in quite significantly in muscular force needed. Might be me though
Very nice and informative video! Helpful information
Here is my standing ovation.
Thank you.
Unfortunately these ideal forms are not always possible when hunting.
Ian It’s for target archery
Explains some annoying jerks that sometimes send the arrow off to the side. Muscles and angles.