My fingers tab has a shelf. You mentioned that a side anchor could work for consistency if you have a shelf but it sounds like most people don't use one. The guy at my pro shop doesn't use one either and he shoots like 3-4 hours/day. Any recommendations about whether or not to use a shelf and pros or cons?
I personally use a shelf since my jaw shape is rather narrow so even though I have proper head position and side anchor, I can't get my knuckle under the jawbone like others. Though if you can get your knuckle secured under the jaw when anchoring without a shelf then the shelf can be put off. But using a shelf won't do any harm since it can be used as an extra reference point. I know for a fact that Brady, even though he can anchor under the jaw with his knuckle he still uses a shelf mainly for consistency sake.
First of all Thank you for being a channel member and supporting my channel Eric. I just made a video and should have it up later today explaining my take on a shelf, different uses and why I first used one and then took it off.
This video was exactly what I needed. Thank you so much for taking the time to read your comments and respond. You are by far the best resource I've found on archery to date. Keep up the great work.
Exactly what I needed: I ended just a couple of hours ago my shooting session -I anchor on the center of my chin - and my neck is really sore. Next time I give il a try
Yo jake Krontech high speed are pretty cool guys that do a lot of work with UA-camrs. Maybe give them a contact. They've done things with the hudrulic press channel before I'm sure they would lend you a camera. The creator of that camera/company has a small channel called tesla500 on stem subjects. Might be the best point of contact. Really hope the channel keeps growing so you can get some of the equipment you need. Keep up the good work mate!
I shot with side anchor for a while a few years ago to get in-line better. The problem was just what you said, the string couldn’t make its natural s-curve, and I have some bad clearance issues where the fletching touched the shelf occasionally.
Funny you posted this today. I was looking at my video form yesterday's shoot, and I'm looking for tweaks to my form. I zoomed in on my face to check my anchor while I was watching this post, and I'm glad to report it's correct
Dude!!!!! Great instructions!! I'm so excited to try this on tonight's backyard shootout. I think I have been anchoring too close to center of chin and because of that I have been throwing a lot of shots to the right... and your points about head, shoulder and neck positions are also really helpful as I would not have immediately thought to check those. Seems like one of the keys to a refined archery game is getting the complete body positions down to where you can repeat the movements perfectly.... you make it look much easier than it actually is, sir. Glad I found this channel!
Good video, as always. Thank you. For those of us who were introduced to archery in the late 1970's (yes, I'm that old) as a child, the are so many fundamental differences in what was taught then and what is taught now. Examples from then: Extend the bow arm as far forward as you can. Vertical bow hand position with fingers pointing forwards (carpet tacks were frequently glued to the front of the riser, so if your fingers came even close to curling round the front of the riser, the pads of your fingers would bleed. Vertical string hand position. This would often dislodge the arrow from the rest the closer you got to full draw. Draw to the centre of the chin....for all the reasons you've made Jake, it was incorrect. It also causes a short draw, and that is very fatiguing, couple that with over-extending the bow arm... Then there was the "drawing from the heavens" draw, much like the Koreans do now.....causing nerve damage. Upright torso and shoulders well back, absolutely necessitating a chest guard because the string would contact the chest at full draw. There are many things that have remained the same, because they work, and some things get taught incorrectly now, but very widely. A common one is terrible stance. Bum far out and bracing the torso in front. Failure to follow a coach's lead when they teach this WILL result in you not getting selected for team places. This posture is dangerous, increasing lordosis, and inflicting high sheering forces on the intervertebral discs and the spinal muscles of the lumbar spine...
Not sure if you know it or not Jake, if you're interested, the Iphone 7 and up has a Slo-mo mode for video capture. It's not exactly High speed, but I've been finding it very useful lately for breaking down my shot sequence to see what I've been screwing up... based a lot on your tips too hahaha. Just thought I'd offer one back this time. :)
Does the choice of string anchor position vary if you have cross dominant eye-sight? I anchor in the middle of my chin, which I find gives me the most consistent outcome, but then I'm shooting right handed and aiming with my right eye, so I don't have to move my head much. Is this an exception or should I still consider a slight side anchor?
Probably why I tend to cut my upper lip and it probably explains why I have to hold the point of my arrow a little to the right of the 8 ring. I really need some coaching.
Is it bad if the string squishes the tip of your nose? I noticed in form videos of myself that the string really digs in there. Gives me like a pig nose basically. Is that affecting arrow flight? Is that just a clicker position issue and I need to move my clicker out?
Depends on the bow size as well. Longer bow size such as 70 inch or more have a less acute string angle so it's only natural that it'll dig more into the nose. Other factor such as nose shape and size or how much you tilt your head up and down will have an effect on the nose touch.
Chin drag will make the arrows seem stiff, since it reduces the side to side motion of the string. It’s really hard to drag the chin constantly though.
I anchor on the center of my chin and the string easily touches my nose. I dont tilt my head. However, the left side of my neck and my left leg also hurts at the end of session. Is it due to my anchor position? I will take into account what you have advised. Thank you.
Hey jake, i've been doing the custom anchor with the string on the corner on my chin. My question is that is it normal for the string to not be hitting my nose. And is it necessary for the string to hit the nose in your opinion
could be one of three issues. 1. short nose and long chin (sometimes this happens) 2. your head is tilted back (most common issue) just look more down to make it touch 3. your bow is too short
I assume you are talking to Olympic style archers here-- barebow shooters generally anchor higher. I use high cheek anchor never have string drag and shotgun aim my arrows.
For me, it's about your arm to forearm ratio. If i anchor at the center of my chin, my elbow comes out a lot to the side so i end up holding the string with my forearm muscles and biceps instead of my back muscles, leading to string plucking. In order to get a straight line with my arm and the arrow and use back tension properly, i need to anchor to the side of my chin.
You might have other issues with your form if you think you need to anchor to the side of your chin to get in line. I had the same issue, but I fixed it mostly by lowering my chest and straightening my lower back by tucking the hips forward. This way my head is in better position to get the elbow lined up. Now I don’t even need a chest guard anymore.
@@user-bo8yt4uc8b I tried to anchor to my chin multiple times. It simply does not work. You have to remember that people are not all made the same. I can lower my chest all i want, do whatever with my back and hips, but that will not change the fact that my forearm is not long enough to reach my chin whilst keeping my arm straight. It would require me turning my head to the side by quite a lot. I'd be unable to see past my nose with my dominant eye. It all depends on how long your arm and forearm are, as well as how wide your shoulders are. Try this: stand facing forwards, and raise your arms in a T shape. Now fold your draw arm at the elbow. Where in relation to your face do the tips of your fingers end up? For me, they don't even end up on my face.
There’s about one inch gap from the fingertips to my face if I do that. I think I have the same issues you have, and the elbow position is still not perfect, but it’s getting there. I’m still struggling a bit with my head not turning enough, and the frames of my eyeglasses blocking the target, but with stretching and turning my head the problem is almost gone.
@@user-bo8yt4uc8b I've had two instructors try to get me to anchor into my chin, and all it did was lead to very bad consistency. So i'm fairly convinced that anchoring to the side of my chin is what works for me. I think there are certain fundamental aspects of the shooting position that must be achieved, whilst all else is secondary. I personally believe that having a straight line between your arm and the arrow is one of these fundamentals. Anchoring position should be set first and foremost to a position that allows for as straight an arm as possible, then consideration needs to be given to a solid anchor point. These two things are the biggest problems recurve archers face: string plucking and draw length consistency. These two issues are why compound bows were invented. In my amateur opinion, there is no more important issue than these two things. Lastly, there is one other issue i found with anchoring in the chin. Not sure how much it affects things, but i think that it must have some effect. The issue is this: When you pull the string into your chin anchor, the clicker should rest just on the tip of your arrow. Now you have to use back tension to draw the arrow through the clicker. There's two things that have to happen: Either you have to move your head back as you pull the arrow through the clicker (but, let's be honest, you will not move your head back, you'll be rotating your head to the side, which will throw off your aim), or you have the pull the string around your chin (increasing tension on the lower limb, creating a weird string shape, possibly leading to chaotic arrow travel, not to mention lots of up and down movement to the arrow). None of these two scenarios seem great to me. But, then again, the entirety of the Korean team anchor in the chin, so it can't possibly be that bad.
@@CristiNeagu It seems to me they anchor to the corner of the chin. For example archery360.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/02/Anchor-Point.jpg Regarding the expansion, IMHO you can pull through (more drawing side), push through (more bow arm) or preferably both (try to find balance). Just be careful to push through your arm from shoulder and not by bending your wrist to push the bow, the pressure point should remain the same. There is a nice talk about push/pull/both: ua-cam.com/video/CjeYFCiH1LY/v-deo.html
In my case I have to anchor mostly in the middle of the base and the tip of the nose (on the bow arm side of the nose). I think that this is because I have a big nose and a small chin. I tried the (standard) recommended positions with very uncomfortable results. Until one day I set my primitive troglodyte archer free and adopted this far-from-the tip position, that for me, functions.
My fingers tab has a shelf. You mentioned that a side anchor could work for consistency if you have a shelf but it sounds like most people don't use one. The guy at my pro shop doesn't use one either and he shoots like 3-4 hours/day. Any recommendations about whether or not to use a shelf and pros or cons?
I personally use a shelf since my jaw shape is rather narrow so even though I have proper head position and side anchor, I can't get my knuckle under the jawbone like others. Though if you can get your knuckle secured under the jaw when anchoring without a shelf then the shelf can be put off. But using a shelf won't do any harm since it can be used as an extra reference point. I know for a fact that Brady, even though he can anchor under the jaw with his knuckle he still uses a shelf mainly for consistency sake.
First of all Thank you for being a channel member and supporting my channel Eric.
I just made a video and should have it up later today explaining my take on a shelf, different uses and why I first used one and then took it off.
@@JakeKaminskiArchery Amazing! This channel is the best recurve resource anywhere... and I'm loving learning from your archery PhD :)
Video Posted just now... ua-cam.com/video/HIfSZ8sdjUM/v-deo.html
im starting to train again after the quarantine and watching you open the bow over and over like nothing reminds me how weak i am right now hahaha
This video was exactly what I needed. Thank you so much for taking the time to read your comments and respond. You are by far the best resource I've found on archery to date. Keep up the great work.
Exactly what I needed: I ended just a couple of hours ago my shooting session -I anchor on the center of my chin - and my neck is really sore. Next time I give il a try
Like me!
Mau Rizio , ditto for me.
Yo jake Krontech high speed are pretty cool guys that do a lot of work with UA-camrs. Maybe give them a contact. They've done things with the hudrulic press channel before I'm sure they would lend you a camera. The creator of that camera/company has a small channel called tesla500 on stem subjects. Might be the best point of contact. Really hope the channel keeps growing so you can get some of the equipment you need. Keep up the good work mate!
Perfect. That’s what I was doing, side anchoring. Group was always left and half my beard missing 😂
Thank you so much, this is soooo helpful to me 😭🙂
Thank you!
Thanks for the super thanks!
I shot with side anchor for a while a few years ago to get in-line better. The problem was just what you said, the string couldn’t make its natural s-curve, and I have some bad clearance issues where the fletching touched the shelf occasionally.
Funny you posted this today. I was looking at my video form yesterday's shoot, and I'm looking for tweaks to my form. I zoomed in on my face to check my anchor while I was watching this post, and I'm glad to report it's correct
Thanks!
Thanks for the super thanks!
Dude!!!!! Great instructions!! I'm so excited to try this on tonight's backyard shootout. I think I have been anchoring too close to center of chin and because of that I have been throwing a lot of shots to the right... and your points about head, shoulder and neck positions are also really helpful as I would not have immediately thought to check those. Seems like one of the keys to a refined archery game is getting the complete body positions down to where you can repeat the movements perfectly.... you make it look much easier than it actually is, sir. Glad I found this channel!
Dang I wish I could just pop down to Florida for a quick lesson. I cannot figure this out.
Good video, as always. Thank you. For those of us who were introduced to archery in the late 1970's (yes, I'm that old) as a child, the are so many fundamental differences in what was taught then and what is taught now.
Examples from then:
Extend the bow arm as far forward as you can.
Vertical bow hand position with fingers pointing forwards (carpet tacks were frequently glued to the front of the riser, so if your fingers came even close to curling round the front of the riser, the pads of your fingers would bleed.
Vertical string hand position. This would often dislodge the arrow from the rest the closer you got to full draw.
Draw to the centre of the chin....for all the reasons you've made Jake, it was incorrect. It also causes a short draw, and that is very fatiguing, couple that with over-extending the bow arm...
Then there was the "drawing from the heavens" draw, much like the Koreans do now.....causing nerve damage.
Upright torso and shoulders well back, absolutely necessitating a chest guard because the string would contact the chest at full draw.
There are many things that have remained the same, because they work, and some things get taught incorrectly now, but very widely. A common one is terrible stance. Bum far out and bracing the torso in front. Failure to follow a coach's lead when they teach this WILL result in you not getting selected for team places. This posture is dangerous, increasing lordosis, and inflicting high sheering forces on the intervertebral discs and the spinal muscles of the lumbar spine...
Not sure if you know it or not Jake, if you're interested, the Iphone 7 and up has a Slo-mo mode for video capture.
It's not exactly High speed, but I've been finding it very useful lately for breaking down my shot sequence to see what I've been screwing up... based a lot on your tips too hahaha.
Just thought I'd offer one back this time. :)
you are simply the best. I love your content. thank you :DDDDDDD
Hey Jake, what about trad/barebow with conner of the mouth anchor? I always get a lip drag
Does the choice of string anchor position vary if you have cross dominant eye-sight?
I anchor in the middle of my chin, which I find gives me the most consistent outcome, but then I'm shooting right handed and aiming with my right eye, so I don't have to move my head much.
Is this an exception or should I still consider a slight side anchor?
Probably why I tend to cut my upper lip and it probably explains why I have to hold the point of my arrow a little to the right of the 8 ring. I really need some coaching.
You’ve just saved my life 😂
Hi Jake! Changing center anchor to slight side anchor, requires a bow retuning? Many thanks
If your draw length changes it may require adjustment.
it WILL change your sight picture so it will change your crawls or gaps.
Is it bad if the string squishes the tip of your nose? I noticed in form videos of myself that the string really digs in there. Gives me like a pig nose basically. Is that affecting arrow flight? Is that just a clicker position issue and I need to move my clicker out?
Depends on the bow size as well. Longer bow size such as 70 inch or more have a less acute string angle so it's only natural that it'll dig more into the nose. Other factor such as nose shape and size or how much you tilt your head up and down will have an effect on the nose touch.
Will chin drag make your tune seem stiff when it might not be if you change the position?
Chin drag will make the arrows seem stiff, since it reduces the side to side motion of the string. It’s really hard to drag the chin constantly though.
Thank You!!!
InshaAllah, God willing, you'll have a super slow motion camera..
I anchor on the center of my chin and the string easily touches my nose. I dont tilt my head. However, the left side of my neck and my left leg also hurts at the end of session. Is it due to my anchor position? I will take into account what you have advised. Thank you.
I wish I had a slow motion camera for archery too :(
How do I keep my finger tension on the string consistent ?
he has a previous video that explains that
Correct placements and while you're at it, build up your finger strength by doing holding exercise and some forearm strength training.
Where to place my fingers while anchor?
Hey jake, i've been doing the custom anchor with the string on the corner on my chin. My question is that is it normal for the string to not be hitting my nose. And is it necessary for the string to hit the nose in your opinion
Anyways cool vids, keep it up. I've followed and done alot of the guide that you made, and i can say that my shooting feels way better than before
could be one of three issues.
1. short nose and long chin (sometimes this happens)
2. your head is tilted back (most common issue) just look more down to make it touch
3. your bow is too short
I assume you are talking to Olympic style archers here-- barebow shooters generally anchor higher. I use high cheek anchor never have string drag and shotgun aim my arrows.
For me, it's about your arm to forearm ratio. If i anchor at the center of my chin, my elbow comes out a lot to the side so i end up holding the string with my forearm muscles and biceps instead of my back muscles, leading to string plucking. In order to get a straight line with my arm and the arrow and use back tension properly, i need to anchor to the side of my chin.
You might have other issues with your form if you think you need to anchor to the side of your chin to get in line. I had the same issue, but I fixed it mostly by lowering my chest and straightening my lower back by tucking the hips forward. This way my head is in better position to get the elbow lined up. Now I don’t even need a chest guard anymore.
@@user-bo8yt4uc8b I tried to anchor to my chin multiple times. It simply does not work. You have to remember that people are not all made the same. I can lower my chest all i want, do whatever with my back and hips, but that will not change the fact that my forearm is not long enough to reach my chin whilst keeping my arm straight. It would require me turning my head to the side by quite a lot. I'd be unable to see past my nose with my dominant eye. It all depends on how long your arm and forearm are, as well as how wide your shoulders are.
Try this: stand facing forwards, and raise your arms in a T shape. Now fold your draw arm at the elbow. Where in relation to your face do the tips of your fingers end up? For me, they don't even end up on my face.
There’s about one inch gap from the fingertips to my face if I do that. I think I have the same issues you have, and the elbow position is still not perfect, but it’s getting there. I’m still struggling a bit with my head not turning enough, and the frames of my eyeglasses blocking the target, but with stretching and turning my head the problem is almost gone.
@@user-bo8yt4uc8b I've had two instructors try to get me to anchor into my chin, and all it did was lead to very bad consistency. So i'm fairly convinced that anchoring to the side of my chin is what works for me.
I think there are certain fundamental aspects of the shooting position that must be achieved, whilst all else is secondary. I personally believe that having a straight line between your arm and the arrow is one of these fundamentals. Anchoring position should be set first and foremost to a position that allows for as straight an arm as possible, then consideration needs to be given to a solid anchor point. These two things are the biggest problems recurve archers face: string plucking and draw length consistency. These two issues are why compound bows were invented. In my amateur opinion, there is no more important issue than these two things.
Lastly, there is one other issue i found with anchoring in the chin. Not sure how much it affects things, but i think that it must have some effect. The issue is this: When you pull the string into your chin anchor, the clicker should rest just on the tip of your arrow. Now you have to use back tension to draw the arrow through the clicker. There's two things that have to happen: Either you have to move your head back as you pull the arrow through the clicker (but, let's be honest, you will not move your head back, you'll be rotating your head to the side, which will throw off your aim), or you have the pull the string around your chin (increasing tension on the lower limb, creating a weird string shape, possibly leading to chaotic arrow travel, not to mention lots of up and down movement to the arrow). None of these two scenarios seem great to me. But, then again, the entirety of the Korean team anchor in the chin, so it can't possibly be that bad.
@@CristiNeagu It seems to me they anchor to the corner of the chin. For example archery360.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/02/Anchor-Point.jpg
Regarding the expansion, IMHO you can pull through (more drawing side), push through (more bow arm) or preferably both (try to find balance). Just be careful to push through your arm from shoulder and not by bending your wrist to push the bow, the pressure point should remain the same.
There is a nice talk about push/pull/both: ua-cam.com/video/CjeYFCiH1LY/v-deo.html
In my case I have to anchor mostly in the middle of the base and the tip of the nose (on the bow arm side of the nose). I think that this is because I have a big nose and a small chin. I tried the (standard) recommended positions with very uncomfortable results. Until one day I set my primitive troglodyte archer free and adopted this far-from-the tip position, that for me, functions.
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OLYMPIC SHOOTING is best done by a ROBOT
if you cannot perform like a robot... avoid Olympic Archery