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An Army of Mindless Drones
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- Опубліковано 12 лип 2012
- In which Hank discusses his feelings after the first parts of Fahrenheit 451, argues with John, and takes a bite out of a banana.
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I worry that, since Ray Bradbury appears to think that all humanity can be stripped of people, that some people will assume that all humanity /has/ been stripped from people. In my discussions with people of all sorts, I have not found that to be even a little bit possible, no matter how much mindless entertainment they consume, or how averse they are to the idea of deep thinking.
I worry about the implications of dehumanizing an entire society. I also think that, as a SciFi novel, the culture itself isn't very well sketched out, but it is quite a short book, and maybe I should save that discussion for next time.
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Nerdfighteria
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"Clarisse Mcclellan is me. Clarisse Mcclellan is Ray Bradbury. The young boy who fell in love with life. And Clarisse is the essence of life, and the essence of love." - Ray Bradbury.
I think Ray Bradbury would've fitted into Nerdfighteria quite well.
Biting the banana was the most iconic Hank moment ever.
I have to say that I love that Hank starts out saying he doesn't want to analyze literature, because it ruins the experience of the book, and then he does a really deep and thoughtful analysis of Fahrenheit 451. I think it's a common misconception that the analysis of literature has to involve an exposing of the wires type thing; but in my experience the interesting questions always involve 1. how does this (insert noun type) affect the story and 2. what does that say about the intended audience; not what is the author's intent or how do we categorize this specific trope/symbol within the context of all tropes and symbols. Those last two can be useful, but they are the most basic boring questions that can be asked/answered about literature.
I don't think he's saying that he doesn't want to analyze literature. Everyone who reads literature will analyze it one way or another. I think he's just saying that John being a writer can more readily see how literary conventions can change and manipulate our thoughts and feelings about it. Hank's argument is that the "why" of an emotion is more important than the "how" of an emotion.
Hank, you say you're not good at picking apart books, but this is one of the most beautiful and touching analyses of a novel I've ever heard.
Fun fact: "Montag" means Monday in german
2:17
wut
also I love both of your takes on this book. Fahrenheit 451 is my favorite book ever, and the fact that the vlogbrothers talk about it makes me happy.
I love how you and John can analyze the first part of the book in such different ways and really give me a different insight into the book. It makes me think deeper about how I experienced the book. It really enriches the reading experience! Thx guys!
Why is it only me that finds stuff like this in videos 1:08 (saliva meteor)
:/
Saw it ,and thought the same thing.
When you said "Nerdfighter shirts", I thought you said "Nerdfighter church".
I read this book for a summer project, and I'm really glad that there are people like Hank and John who can help me understand it better. Thank you Vlogbrothers!
This is probably one of my favorite Vlogbrothers videos now... Only because I absolutely love, love, LOVE the contrast between Hank and John. All of what was discussed in this video about culture shock and ethnocentrism is so relevant, even in the conversation between a literature nerd and a science nerd.
It's so awesome! 8D
anyone who says "there are no mindless drones" have never met fox news viewers or gone to a republican convention
Those people still have opinions and free will, sure their opinions may be fuelled by misinformation, but everyone's opinions are based off of information and these people just get the wrong stuff.
Completely off-topic but... Hank, you and John he been a major source of inspiration for me. When I feel like giving up, I think of how far you guys have come over the last few years and think... damn. I can DO this. I CAN do this! And now I've started my own business and it's completely terrifying and exciting but I could have never done it without the boost that your videos have given me over the years.
aw man, I can no longer be a part of the exclusive club of the teefury nerdfighter shirt. But I do love the shirt, I'm glad more people can now love and wear it too.
Also, F451 was one of the most thought provoking novels I read in high school. It just makes you want to be appreciative and pay attention to balancing the things you spend your time and passion on.
Man, I want that shirt so much! And it's kind of ridiculous how excited hearing peoples opinions and thoughts on F451 makes me (because most of them are vastly different from mine, and that's pretty awesome), so I'm really glad you guys are doing it for the Nerdfighter book club.
...that was like... an amazing video. i can't quite wrap my mind around this book yet (because I haven't finished it) but both of you are so good at eloquently analyzing it! I agree- we as readers (and even Montag after he's read a few books) begins to look at the others as if they are mindless drones who have never felt any of the feels. It's easy to forget that we're all human.
YES!! Very well put sir. We all get pretty absorbed and over-saturated with obsessive ideas, especially with powerful books such as Fahrenheit 451. I find the fact that you could keep a level head while still letting the point of the book work its magic, and hit its point home, quite remarkable :). You are awesome... Just keep the awesome coming.
I love how Hank and John complement each other. Like, John makes me think about how to not just waste time doing stupid things instead of "being alive", but Hank reminds me how important it is to not suddenly think I'm a genius for listening to the birds while I walk to the bus. Mindless watching of TV-shows that don't really contribute to my life is bad, but pride and arrogance and looking down on other people is dangerous. Thank You, John and Hank!
Thank you, Hank, you are such an interesting person to listen to when it comes to books! And your pov is a really nice counterbalance to John's. You made me realize that far too often I do think of the world as "mindless drones vs we few", and that's very dangerous. I was also feeling rather guilty for liking Clarisse after John's video. But after both of your videos I have so many new ways to read this book! It's awesome!
I really appreciate and love the contrast between your and John's interpretations of Fahrenheit!
YES!!! And there never will be mindless drones!! I love that you made this so big! We will always have that, no matter how hard we try to turn it off and even if we succeed in doing so, we will always have that experience of pain or happiness that keeps us human.
This book, like many other books I have read, is a tool for letting me step outside and see a different aspect of humanity, or lack there of. One reason why I love reading. I can take part in something that I'd never have otherwise.
I love browsing through the comments and seeing all the long, thoughtful discussions on a novel. Nerdfighteria FTW!
On top of the awesome personal view of this book, I like that Pratchett is on the bookshelf behind you. Explains a lot.
I know I’m nine years late to this conversation but after watching them back to back I have to say I think Hank’s analysis is much more interesting and better
This is probably my favorite video that you've made in a while, Hank.
A great book for making you question culture (specifically the class system) is Jasper Fforde's Shades of Grey.
Hank, I love how you read books. It made me really happy to hear that you "feel" the story first, rather than analyze the mechanics of it. I do the same thing, and it has always made me feel like I wasn't being "intellectual enough."
I recently bought the Pizza John shirt and it is so many kinds of awesome. Like, way better than I could've imagined. Highly recommended.
when I went to go take out fahrenheit 451 from the library, it was not only gone, but there were 16 holds on it! Then, when I went to the bookstore to buy it, there were only 2 copies left! It's nice to know there are some nerdfighters living close by =)
I've really been enjoying listening to Hank and John's interpretations of this book (so far). It always amazes me how I can read something and think about it one way, while another person (or people) get something completely different out of it.
Brill analysis. I like your point about how no amount of mindless entertainment will ever make us devoid of feeling. When that is about to happen one day, we'll eventually wake up and be like 'woah. we need to stop watching TV.'
I mean we've re-adapted around other things we've learned are detrimental to our living, we can re-adapt around TV. I love F-451 tho.
I'm really impressed with how well you pointed to the Pizza John poster behind you with a shirt over your face. Is there no end to your talents, Hank?
Also, I really enjoyed this video. You make some excellent points, particularly about Clarice and Mildred, who have always been the two hardest characters in this book for me to really get a grasp of.
3:19 - Ozymandias, much?
"Look on my Works, ye Mighty, and despair!"
Thank you so much! :) It's always sort of difficult to try to put a complete thought into a UA-cam comment. I always worry that my thoughts do not come across clearly, so it makes me feel good that you said that.
Hey, this is interesting: It's like the universe knows that I just read Farenheit 451 for a school project, because I had no idea that that was what this video was about until you showed the book and started talking about Clarisse... so then I watched the rest of it because I love you guys and I actually had a reason to because I have to write a paper on the book. thanks for giving me some enlightenment. :)
Did anyone else get chills/teary-eyed during Beatty's monologue? It resonated really hard for me for some reason.
Hank, I love how passionate you are! Very hopeful about people.
Awesome Hank as usual! I find that the lack of love/humanity in the book also is a great counterpoint to reality and reminds us how important love and humanity is when we view others.
Thank you Hank. For the "there are no mindless drones" statement. I weepingly came off of my mountain of self importance and otherness that I tried to use to set myself above and "apart from" and in that same moment gained a greater love for everyone, including, as it turns out, myself.
I love how the Green brothers can have differing opinions/views/take on a single topic. It gives me more perspectives to consider which helps me to complexly interact and understand other people & the world.
"There are no mindless drones". I found that beautiful, it's really easy to forget- i'll be sure to remember that when I meet new people or talk to friends with different opinions.
Thank you. I am glad you brought up this point. It's great to "other" some people, say they aren't smart or don't think or don't feel for one reason or another.
I think this is one of my favorite Hank videos.
I enjoyed this perspective very much. I like the idea of looking at what the book makes you think, more or before you look at how it makes you feel that.
Thank you so, so much, Hank! I have waited for years for someone to agree with me about Fahrenheit 451 on every one of the points you just mentioned! Oh, my goodness, thank you!
The deal of being the single enlightened one in a sea of mindless drones, I'm glad you brought that up. As a child I read most of the high-school required reading, and thought that made me special. It took me until I actually got to highschool to shake those illusions of superiority, and I was much happier for it. I don't want to blame those wonderful books for that mindset, but I can't imagine it helped. It did give my already staggering ego some justification.
Hank,
You and John actually analyze our society a lot and find things that are weird -- the amount of money spent each year in America on lawns...Pennies...Kardashians...etc. Good job...keep it up!
My one counter comment is that I don't believe Mildred accidentally tried to commit suicide at all. I fully believe that she meant it and that was her act of true humanity. Her showing that she actually had emotion somewhere in there
Throughout the class of English 11 and especially while reading this book, my teacher would often remind us of what Socrates once said: "The unexamined life is not worth living."
The how/why debate is the reason why I like re-reading books.
Also I loved your point on the 'mindless drones'. I think it'd be naive to say that there aren't downsides to technology, but we can address those downsides without thinking of it in terms of who is 'better' than whom.
I've already read Fahrenheit 451 about a year ago, so it's not AS fresh in my mind, but I really love watching Hank and John discuss it even if I'm not currently following along, and even if I never read the book, it's refreshing to have a broad topic to listen to someone else tackle.
Did they ever do Bradbury's The Martian Chronicles? It would be interesting to see their literature/science discussion with that book. And to be fair, it is a masterpiece, so perhaps they would have less to visit in it compared with Fahrenheit 451, but it would be fun.
HANK. HANK. You are one of the few people I know who say "different FROM" which is correct in traditional English. It makes me happy.
When you talked about the weird culture things it reminded me of when I went to Panama last week and they sang happy birthday to the person but also happy birthday to the candles and I asked my Panamanian friend why and he had no idea.
Today I went to a local art museum, and there was a sculpture garden outside. Attached to a wire on the bottom of a bench was a little notebook. While looking through the notebook, I found that someone had written DFTBA (Don't Forget To Be Awesome), which was pretty awesome. But then on another, completley empty page, I found "I go to seek a Great Perhaps" written in pencil. Something about it made me feel like Alaska had been there.
"JOHN, I'LL SEE YOU ON MONDAY"---it makes me a bit nostalgic for last year :P
Sound, thanks :)
Hopefully I'll get to read it at some stage, reading the Mars Trilogy at the minute, as recommended by Hank.
I love it when you guys talk books.
It's been a couple years since I last read the book, although it still nice to discus what I do remember of it. It also goes really well with Brave New World which I am currently re-reading (the whole reason I didn't start 451 with the book club). It made me think that although in BNW they also have mindless entertainment, they still have what they consider love. Although it isn't real love the illusion that basically sex is love is enough to satisfy their minds. Thanks for getting me thinking.
This was one of my favorite videos :) Sometimes I forget that Hank has the ability to be a writer too..
I love how differently this book (and all books) is interpreted by John, Hank, and the Nerdfighters.
I understand that people read books for different reasons and that's amazing. I just got so huffy when John was talking about Clarisse being an unbelievable character when there were more obvious choices. Sure she's kooky, but I found her kind of refreshing in a world so devoid of, well, everything. I just felt a little oddly ostracized after John’s video, because once again I was finding something where other people were finding a waste of paper. So thanks Hank, for making me feel less crazy.
Whenever I watch a series of Vlogbrothers' videos in a row I start to feel REALLY creative. Almost as if I'm staring at the color green. Just me?
I tend to think a lot like John... so it's always nice to have your perspective, which makes me think outside of how I normally would.
Reading Fahrenheit 451 in high school pretty much shaped the way I think today and have thought since then. Now, though, you're helping me see that maybe I haven't been right to look down upon the "mindless drones" like I'm prone to do.
Some people, though.... I KNOW I should imagine them complexly, but man, it's hard when they act so simple.
This really made my day, and I can really agree with the not dehumanizing people part, because I've been dealing with people who do that a lot today, so thank you. I also just found out that Lydia Bennet has her own UA-cam channel, so bye now. :)
I really loved this review because it took the time to be honest and say that the characters in Fahrenheit 451 are good as symbols but often bad as people. And the novel's inclination toward that pretentious part of ourselves imagining that our feelings are so unique that nobody can experience them - even though everywhere you look there is an abundance of evidence to the contrary: showing that the passions of strangers can be sometimes more profound, influential and vibrant than our own.
This is quite possibly my most favorite Hank video.
Brave new world, lord of the flies, and this novel, Fahrenheit 451, were my favorites in High school.
The British sitcom My Hero is a show that helped me see the culture we live in and the strange things that we do. It is so so funny as well!
I totally agree on your thought about the lack of mindless drones in society.
However, holy crap, this book is making me have an existential crisis. I don't know exactly what I love about life! I don't know what makes me feel alive! I don't know whether I think thoughtfully about things enough or if I enjoy entertainment mindlessly!
Man this book is incredible. :) I'm so excited to read the rest and see what other fantastic crises it causes. :P
"There are no mindless drones" -Hank Green (I love this so much, can it be a banner hung from The Statue of Liberty)
You guys would make videos about the one book I was ever assigned for summer reading during high school that I actually fully read. And during the summer after I graduated, no less.
wow , that was an extremely interesting video. I love it when you two are particularly thought-provoking.
This video, and especially the part about seeing characters in books as humans, not symbols, helped me get a fresh perspective on my Master's dissertation in English.
True story. Thanks, Hank. You're awesome.
"It's almost unnatural, like, inhuman, to examine your culture as such a specifically cultural being." ~ The sound of Hank remembering to be awesome at 2:11 and exhume the simplest truths that ordinarily defy expression :3
Great review! I tend to err on John's side of the MPDG argument here, but I agree with the rest of your comments; I feel like recently there's been a little bit of a trend recently in dehumanising story characters, whether it's the bad-guy or a whole society, and this is definitely a book I would say does so too. :)
also HEY I HAVE THAT SHIRT
wow, has anyone else noticed that the vlog brothers are getting pretty close to having made a 1000 videos. I mean, if you count Crash Course, Sci Show, Truth or Fail, etc. then they've probably already hit that marker a while ago. But still, wow. It's pretty awesome.
YES! That transition from watching the television show to opting for the books is great! There's a cultural change in film/television adaptation now, and it has the ability to move people towards the original literary source. THAT'S SOMETHING TO BE SAID ABOUT WHERE OUR CULTURE IS NOW IT'S SO GREAT.
It saddens me that I have not yet read The Fault In Our Stars and seeing it placed cozily in Hank's bookshelf.
The war against television and movies sometimes gets to me. Both media types have strongly influenced who I am. It's not all mindless entertainment *at all*. It educates me, it allows me to explore myself whenever I react to a certain character or decision. Cinematography moves me and lets me see beautiful things and think beautiful thoughts. It comforts me and unites me and singles me out as an individual all at the same time. Books can do the same, but they also cannot. Neither is better.
Hank,
You just reminded me of "The Addams Family". You have just made my day. Thank you. :)
Hank, great perspective! It's interesting how when we are up close to our culture, to the world we experience every day, everything seems so normal that we don't think to question it. But when we start to question the foundations of our life, we realize how strange it is! By looking at other cultures too, we can learn to see our own existence from a different perspective, and maybe, we won't be so quick to judge what only seems as normal to our own biases.
Same here. We had a very short time to read it in my class and since it was near finals, I just read the sparknotes and skimmed it. Now I feel like I actually want to read it.
I see what you're saying. I was looking at it more from the perspective of feeling love than from being capable of giving it. I agree that the ability to love is an integral part that makes up human persons.
Loved the part later when guy makes mrs something or other cry. That whole scene was cool
I agree, as nerdfighters and generally those who posses common sense i think we tend to feel ostracized by our society or way up on our high horse, but I think we need to remember Granger - "we're just dust jackets". We are simply keepers of our own bits of knowledge and wisdom. And it is amazing how differently we all read the same book.
Hank, that was a fantastic reading of the novel. And I think a nice counter to what I've always kind of read as Bradbury's...pessimism, I suppose? at worst, misanthropy. The notion that people are mostly crap or we, through technology, are turning ourselves into crap. I just don't think anyone can possibly do that.
And a proud owner of the original run of those beautiful shirts.
Hank, you just worded what I've thought of this book that I couldn't understand enough to figure out in my head.
Yes, I am so glad someone else thought that to, it's like they are both in their own little world, and happy there.
I saw Free Hugs on the bookshelf... Stopped paying attention. HANK, WHY MUST YOU HAVE SUCH INTERESTING BACKGROUNDS?!
I have to say I really appreciate your insights; you made me pause and think more deeply about cultural perceptions as well as the influences of media on culture.
I like the way Hank stated it - everyone has their own way of living and being alive and feeling. Some people want to block it out, but that's probably because they've felt it and didn't like what they felt. Some people feel it deeper than others and they might revel in that but it doesn't make them any more or less human than anyone else.
Ah man, I never tire of Hank...... he's amazing.
As much as I love John, I completely agree with your point. I think this book is supposed to be taken more as an allegory and a way to reevaluate how we all live. And the thing about Clarice is that no matter what, I think there will always be someone like Clarice in any culture or society. There are always rebels who think differently, even if it may take time for them to appear. So I don't think she is unrealistic at all. Great Book Club book choice, you guys.
Dearest John,
Your book: The Fault in Our Stars has been incredably inspiring on my own journy through cancer. It is by far my favourite bok by you and one of my favourites of all time. I know you guys do all kinds of awesome stuff with decreasing of world suck and I was wondering if you could help me start a camp for children who are battling or have lived through cancer to meet and get to know eachother.
I never ask this, but I really want this to happen, be a bro and like this for me.
I currently read books like Hank, but I also want to see John's way of looking at books while I'm reading, because that kind of symbolic and metaphoric view of a book is extremely fascinating to me. I just haven't learned how to see it yet.
I appreciate how your videos make me examine my life and ask myself what I love about it. =D
My favorite moment of this vlog = banana break. The other stuff was quite entertaining too.