Questions about Tongues: Answering objections and addressing abuse
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"Break into emergency tongues." That is gold 😄
My mom had an experience many years ago. The preacher's visiting grandson had been living in Germany with his parents and during the service, (small church) my mom prayed in tongues. Afterward the grandson came up and asked her if she knew German and she laughed, saying, No, I barely can speak good English. He told her she was praising God in German. She later found out that because of praying in German that this young was saved.
Wish we could catch something like this on video .... thousands of gibberish fakers and only obscure personal stories about real biblical tongues
So glad I found this channel :) You have reintroduced me to the gifts! Being involved in mid-acts dispensationalism for a bit, that was a total quenching of the Spirit. Thank you, Gents!
I'm just a regular guy. I work in law enforcement and I sincerely love the Lord Jesus. I was visiting a church on vacation and a person during the service began praying very calmly in tongues. Somebody else got up to interpret the tongues prayer. The interpreter was running around screaming "I'm going to do a new thing, I'm going to do a new thing" and screaming other similar statements. It was weird and did not sit well with my spirit. Then, the pastor's wife walked up on stage and as she was about to speak, I heard very clearly in my mind/heart/spirit, "You are my vessel and I'm going to fill you with the Holy Spirit". Well, her very first words were, "I heard an interpretation of You are my vessel and I'm going to fill you with the Holy Spirit".
Whether or not the church was doing prayer and interpretation the right way, I don't fully know. What I do know is I was encouraged, humbled and I felt the amazing love of God on me and a gifting was revealed to me that night. I believe the first interpreter completely swung and missed. The second interpreter hit it right on the nose.
Thank you guys for a balanced perspective!
I fail to find words adequate enough to convey how much I appreciate this episode. I was raised by non-believers whose only advice about God was "if you're ever around religious people and they start babbling out loud shouting jibberish, RUN." As a spirit filled believer I have struggled for years about this specific issue. I have found incredible discernment and release through this teaching. Thank you. God bless you guys.
That's an awesome comment.
Very relieved and suprised to finally see a Christian resource handling accurately this topic. I have never spoken in tongues, but have always been open to it, as the Bible says it is one of the giftings, and I have experienced in the past, the Holy Spirit lead me in co-participating in other of the giftings. I have experienced much frustrations with those that insist that tongues is the only evidence of the working of the Holy Spirit, as well as much frustration from those that deny that speaking in tongues is something God even does today. Thank you guys for the accurate knowledge, and most importantly, I thank God for working in and through you guys to enable you in what you are performing. Blessings.
Wow wow, major comfort at 18:00 and after - From my previous church (Word of Faith) I was taught bad theology and had struggles with tongues. I've found myself always suddenly knowing how to pray when I am praying for somebody or praying for a Bible study or something like that, but not knowing how to pray when I am by myself, and last year this time I was still demonized and was experiencing weird sexually demonic things, and trying to pray in tongues would make me vomit, but nowadays it doesn't happen and this video has inspired me to desire this gift in a real and true way - Thank you for the clarity and teaching
Hold on, “trying” to pray in tongues made you vomit? Please explain.
Two years ago I watched this video or a remnant video like it on tongues. Miller’s experience with learning how the gift operated in his life was very similar to mine, and since I’ve seen that video, God has helped me speak in tongues with greater confidence and I regularly find that it edifies my spirit. Praise Jesus
Very well articulated!
Thank you for this topic
Conference is a great idea. Will definitely attend.
This is a great conversation! The bottom line is that there's no biblical president to say the gifts have ceased.
Around 18:00... there are times that I wanna take the me out of the equation and just let my groans go up. I don’t know what I want to fray but I have FAITH that Holy Spirit is taking those wordless prayers make sense to God AND that they are offered in LOVE!
Also, in times of personal spiritual warfare, I needed something other than words to battle with. He knew what I needed when I didn’t.
I’m curious to know for those, like Miller and Josh, who’ve been told they’re speaking a known language when they’ve spoken in tongues publicly if that was your normal prayer language? Or were you given a different language at that moment? My prayer language is always the same, but I’ve never prayed in tongues publicly. It doesn’t sound like a known language.
I'm new to the gifts, but I speak in Arabic for my prayer language and public speaking with interpretations (only to small groups of friends). I have spoken another Asian sounding language at rebuking/removing a demonic presence. I'd love to hear what the hosts have to say. I'm curious too as I have such little experience.
First of all, this is not an attack on the presenters. I think you guys are keeping things very cordial and that is a blessing.
However, if the reason for teaching that not everyone will speak in tongues is based upon 1 Corinthians 12:30, this is an extremely weak argument. Here are just four reasons why I disagree and believe me, this is a mere summary. I would be interested to see how you deal with these points.
1. It is usually considered poor hermeneutics to use a single verse to establish a doctrine. All things being equal, the initial evidence doctrine is usually criticized for using a few verses to establish that position, yet, here, one verse is considered strong proof against the idea that everyone has the possibility of speaking in tongues. I find this intriguing.
2. Using 1 Corinthians 12:30 as a proof text against the possibility of every believer being able to speak in tongues is an argument based on the fallacy of logic known as “Failure To Recognize Distinctions”.
Because x (tongues in 1 Corinthians 12) and y (tongues in other passages) are alike in many respects, it does not necessarily follow that x and y are alike in all respects. This is why Greek and Hebrew lexicographers have many definitions for a single word. (For now, I will not bore you with the long lexicographic process, but suffice it to say, knowing the process would help one to not make this common logic/lexicographic error) Examining “tongues” without a clear grasp of the range of particular usage in the New Testament is based upon a methodology research error. At the minimum, the context of all passages should be ascertained for similarities and differences. Is it possible that the Gift of the Holy Spirit (with the manifestation of tongues) is different than the actual Gift of Tongues? Absolutely! There are at least five differences!
3. Point 2 leads to the argument for Biblical Polysemy. Polysemy is the capacity for a word or phrase to have multiple meanings, usually related by contiguity of meaning within a semantic field. Although I could give many New Testament examples, I will use a word from the immediate context of 1 Corinthians 12 to illustrate the point. The Gift of Faith is one of the gifts listed in this chapter. Apostle Paul could have easily asked this rhetorical question: "Do all have the Gift of Faith?" The answer would be NO within the contextual understanding of the word "faith." Would it therefore be a reasonable to conclude that there is only one kind of faith? No, because we understand the context. Yet, those who use this verse to teach that there is only one kind of speaking in tongues do exactly that...why? Curious minds would love to know. There are many other New Testament words that can demonstrate this point.
4. Along similar lines, using 1 Corinthians 12:30 as a proof text against the possibility of every believer being able to speak in tongues is an argument based on the exegetical fallacy “False assumptions about technical meaning.” In this fallacy, an interpreter falsely assumes that a word (in this case “tongues”) always has a certain technical meaning (terminus technicus). Unfortunately, it is usually a meaning derived either from a subset of selective and prejudicial use of evidence or from the interpreter’s personal systematic theology. 1 Corinthians 12:30 DOES NOT deal with ALL that Scripture reveals about tongues.
I have at least 6 more reasons why using 1 Cor 12:30 as a proof-text against the possibility of every believer being able to speak in tongues.
I would love to read this book that you’re eventually publishing!
I would love that you speak that in a video rather than reading. I couldn't finish it.
@@zachlehkyi9951 ...He commented in another Remnant Radio video that he was eventually publishing a book on the gifts of the Spirit when I asked him about the use of tongues in a corporate prayer or worship setting. That’s the book I was talking about...? I’m not sure what you mean by your comment.
@@JK-xn4mj
I'm working on a few books to counter the now popular "evangelical charismatics." In almost seems that their views are made to disassociate from Pentecostalism, but in their zeal to disassociate have ended up misinterpreting many texts IMO.
Too much analysis and not enough faith.
Hey there! Thankful for this channel. Could you please do that follow up video speaking to what you would disagree with on the AOG view of Baptism of the HS w/ evidence of tongues and your view? That would be so helpful as my husband and I are in an AOG church and have been wrestling with this. Thank you!!
I would recommend Sam Storms book The Language of Heaven. I grew up AOG so I know where you’re coming from. Those who don’t speak in tongues are made to feel like second-class Christians. As an adult I moved on to a Baptist church. I wasn’t a cessationist but held fast to the verse that not all would speak in tongues. I still sought the gift from time to time, but was pretty much convinced I wasn’t gonna get it. After 14 years I was given the gift in private. No coaching or teaching. Not sure my story helps you, but Sam’s book will. 😀
@@ChristiWilkes Very helpful to hear your experience Christi, thank you! And I will look into that book! I'm grateful to you! 😊
@@raisingpraise You’re welcome. You might try this video also. ua-cam.com/video/7BOsUjVMqQ8/v-deo.html. I haven’t watched it but the title sounded like what you’re asking about.
Our God is not a God of confusion.
Amen
Good video. I was raised in the UPCI and now attend a COG and I have tons of questions as a 4th gen pentecostal
At 31:47 re AG’s official position on tongues. I agree 100% with you on this. I have belonged to an AG church for 25 years but part company with them on this issue. I was raised in a cessationist Baptist Church and received the gift of tongues while attending a cessationist Bible College. I wholeheartedly believe that we are baptized into Christ at salvation and there is no subsequent experience that makes us suddenly more spiritual. Sanctification is a daily dying to self and surrender to God resulting in gradual maturity; becoming more Christ-like.
The question I have is, when someone speaks in tongues in the service (which is rare) how do they know ahead of time that someone there has the gift of interpretation? Or that they will be obedient to interpret? Should the person speaking in the tongue only do so if they know for sure that someone with the gift of interpretation is in the service at that time and should assume they will use their gift? Thank you for your amazing channel. I watch it all the time and share it with all my friends.
As an AG minister I would say that I grew up understanding that the Spirit immerses us into Christ upon conversion. I also believe that Jesus immerses us into the power of the Spirit and there could be physical way of understanding that has occurred. It is never to be a “I got THE gift.” That attitude is not of God. God uses everyone differently why do some speak in tongues and others don’t? We will find out when we get to Heaven. What’s important is that we use what we have been bestowed to the glory of God to see His name exalted and people get saved.
I think it’s important to as they mentioned maybe have teaching amongst other believers and identify who has those gifts. Scripture also teaches us to pray that we may interpret. There have been times as a worship leader that I speak in tongues and then explain the interrogation over the microphone or even sung in tongues and that has occurred. Many times even the Senior Pastor (at least in my experiences) could have the gift of interpretation.
This question makes me wonder if the one asking even understands the purpose of tongues. I have had knowledge of this channel for a few years or a couple years that have never sat through an entire video. I will most certainly watch this video especially the part regarding tongues. I was raised in a Holiness Pentecostal Church and I believe that particular church was also Oneness Pentecostal which I disagree with these days. I mean I disagree with the Oneness part. I think Oneness Pentecostals are of the same type of spirit as the fatalistic doctrines of Islam and the fatalistic doctrines of election of Calvinism. It's a perverted perception of sanctification.
I was questioning whether I was actually speaking in tongues because of the repetitiveness of the syllables and phrases. Then I remembered an elaborate poem in Mandarin (or something) about a Tiger that sounds like just one word repeated over and over.
Interesting topic. I have often wondered how to reconcile the apparent differences in the Gift(s) of speaking in tongues (actual vs prayer language) and interpretation. I also struggled with it from a logical perspective (it doesn't make sense to the natural mind) but then I came to an understanding, from the plain reading of the text, that seems fairly clear to me.
Those speaking in Acts 2 spoke in 'tongues' (Strongs 1100 glossa gloce-sah' of uncertain affinity; the tongue; by implication, a language (specially, one naturally unacquired):--tongue), while those hearing, heard their own 'languages' (Strongs: 1258 dialektos dee-al'-ek-tos from 1256; a (mode of) discourse, i.e. "dialect":--language, tongue.).
The 'tongues' in verse 4 is the same word (glossa) used in verse 3 ("tongues like as of fire") and therefore doesn't necessarily mean 'language'.... as fire doesn't 'speak' but in this case refers to a sign. Yet many of the hearers heard their own languages (dialektos), while some thought they were drunk (apparently did not hear known languages?). Notice also the focus on 'hearing' rather than speaking in verse 6: "And how is it that we hear, each of us in his own native language?" (also, 8 & 11). Did they hear multiple languages spoken all at the same time (potentially confusing?) or "each of us his own native language"? In other words, they heard an interpretation, rather than a specific translation.
Paul speaks of tongues and interpretation, yet there seem to be no specific examples of interpretation (he said, she said, etc), other than general references to "speaking in tongues and extolling God" (Acts10). Paul stated: "For one who speaks in a tongue speaks not to men but to God; for no one understands him, but he utters mysteries in the Spirit" (1 Cor 14:2 ESV). So, not a known language?
I have heard many people speak in tongues and, having lived in Europe for 10 years, am familiar with many languages, yet have never heard a recognizable language while listening to others speaking in tongues (doesn't mean it can't happen). I do believe the gift is genuine so where do actual languages come into it? I have received "words of knowledge" while speaking in tongues, so the gift of interpretation seems to apply in this case.
Could we be looking at this the wrong way? Could it simply be that part of the miracle of Pentecost was in the hearing, by way of the gift of interpretation, while the believers were speaking "mysteries in the Spirit"? Those who heard were apparently God fearing "Jews, devout men from every nation under heaven" (Acts 2:5 ESV) so it seems reasonable to conclude the Holy Spirit may have given them the gift of interpretation as part of the outpouring (as a witness), while those who had a mocking spirit only heard gibberish and said “They are filled with new wine.” (Acts 2:13)
For me, this 'understanding' mostly resolves the issue of actual languages vs spiritual tongues, and implies that the actual spoken words (language(s) used) are less important, because the Holy Spirit is able to gift the interpretation as He pleases (if required). Notice again the reference to hearing, when Peter explains how the gift of the Holy Spirit was poured out on the gentiles : "... they were hearing them speaking in tongues and extolling God ... " (Acts 10:46), while no interpretation seemed to be necessary.
Thoughts?
I know this is a year old, but I agree with your thought that perhaps they were speaking in an unknown tongue, why people thought they were drunk, but people heard in their own language. Or, an interpretation as you suggested.
Where did this gift go for 1800 years ??? Why only the unknown type today ??
Your interpretation is also new ... the church has always believed it was a gift of language
Good show guys.
May I also suggest/add that intercession for nations often brings the prayer in another language. Maybe it's something that's none of my business? Yet, the intercession/ prayer is given though the one praying may not understand, but will have the edification as scripture notes. Also, missionaries can be given tongues in a foreign land. The Lord stays within his own boundaries but we need to be careful to not form his boundaries to what we have been taught, or can fit our boundaries.
Corporate Tongue Speaking
I have read about every commentary and view on 1 Cor 14 I can get my hands on for the last 40+ years, and I believe that one of the most interesting facts is seeing how there is a "pass-along" assumption about the text. Many of these writers will say that Apostle Paul was attempting to correct "corporate tongue-speaking." Hmmmmm.... Interesting. I ask, why would Paul attempt to change the apostolic precedent clearly established for corporate tongue speaking in the book of Acts?
1. There isn't a single clear text that states that anywhere in the book of 1 Corinthians.
2. A careful contextual reading of 1 Corinthians 14 will demonstrate that apostle Paul was correcting a very narrow problem (public "in front of" prayer in tongues without interpretation
3. Some attempt to use verse 19 "yet in the church" to suggest that Paul was dealing with Corporate Tongue speaking. I believe the text should be translated "before the church," but I won't go through that argument right now.
4. Some attempt to use verse 23 "Therefore if the whole church comes together in one place, and all speak with tongues, and there come in those who are uninformed or unbelievers, will they not say that you are out of your mind?" to suggest Paul is teaching against corporate worship.
*That view would not be in keeping with the context of "public upfront prayer in tongues," therefore, what Paul is saying is that if everyone takes turns going in front of the congregation to pray in tongues, they would think that you are mad. We know that is a more likely interpretation because of the verse right afterward: "But if all prophesy, and an unbeliever or an uninformed person comes in, he is convinced by all, he is convicted by all." Do you really think Apostle Paul was exhorting everyone to simultaneously prophesy? If ALL THE CONGREGATION was prophesying simultaneously, would it actually be better than everyone speaking in tongues simultaneously? Just like Paul is addressing "upfront" individual usage of tongues, he is also addressing "upfront" individual usage of prophecy as the context confirms. This verse needs to be understood contextually! Paul is not addressing the corporate usage of tongues anywhere in this text!
*Why would Apostle Paul teach anything contrary to his own practice? Apostle Paul allowed for corporate speaking in tongues in Acts 19.
*Acts 2, 10, and 19 at the very least allows for the corporate usage of tongues. Scripture does not contradict Scripture! Acts and 1 Corinthians 14 are in perfect harmony. Unless one can prove from Scripture that one book has higher authority than another, I will simply answer: All Scripture is profitable for doctrine....
Of course, this is a summary... love to read your response...
Excellent analysis, but the main question is when Paul says, "church" (ekklesia) might he mean "synagogue?" Technically? So unbelieving Jews might be checking out the proceedings and therefore special caution is to be observed. Is this your understanding?
@@duncescotus2342
I do not believe that this meeting is a synagogue meeting, however, let us think of your question as if it were...
1. When it comes to speaking in tongues, I believe Paul is addressing a singular issue. The issue he is specifically addressing is public prayer in tongues by individuals who are taking turns "before the group."
2. Paul specifically says not to forbid tongue speaking (contextually, "before" the group).
3. Contextually, Paul merely desires that if one speak in tongues before the group, it should be with interpretation. This appears to be the reason that he exhorts those who speak in tongues before the group pray for the ability to interpret what they are praying so people can join in with an "AMEN!"
4. If Apostle Paul was correcting corporate worship in tongues, this would not make sense. A person usually doesn't say a man when 10 people are speaking at once.
5. I find nothing in the text that suggest that Paul would be concerned about the presence of any Jews.
6. It should be also noted that if Paul was concerned about everybody thinking they were mad if everyone spoke in tongues corporately, what do you think they would think if
"all," say 100 people began prophesying at the same time? Would not they think that you are mad? Yes they would! There with the trilby note difference if the corporate tongue speaking argument was valid. The context for both speaking in tongues and prophesying is for "all" the individuals to speak before the congregation one at a time. Nowhere is Paul addressing corporate tongue speaking. That idea is being read into the text.
@@randalwdeese Number 5 is the one that interests me. The rest of your points sound reasonable enough. Oh that God had used Luke instead of Paul, how easy it would all be.
Sincere Question: Agnes Ozman was credited with the revival of tongues in 1901. She claimed to also write in tongues (Chinese) and it is proven to be nonsense. What is the takeaway here? Thanks.
Sounds like Azusa Street doctrines. We ought not base our doctrines on our experience, but let our experience confirm the truths of the faith. In reality, we can't have one without the other. But taking anything to a premature conclusion or taking anything too far is fatal. This is how the Devil steals the seed or keeps it from bearing fruit. (Parable of the Seed, Mark 4 and others).
This topic has always Interested me...I don't understand it, and I am confused on how you practice it should you find that it is your gift? Intrigued.
I’ve probably never heard anyone speak in tongues and it’s an actual existing language. But what is most common in my local church is the “gibberish” but what’s amazing is that majority of the time, that “gibberish” is interpreted. And this, for us, is pretty much a weekly thing or when we meet. So be encouraged Mike, the gift of interpretation is very much alive and active
Definitely
How do you ascertain the interpretations are correct?
@@tatalunin6614 discern using scripture like any other gift or ministry
@@mnelisi That’s kinda redundant, don’t you think, given that Scripture is already with us. Should we not just go straight to God’s Word?
At the very least, it’s inefficient double handling.
I dunno if anybody else notice how economical the Bible is written in terms of number of words used. Not a single word lacking or in excess.
And how do we confirm that that’s really what was said when it is not of any known language?
Weren’t the gift of tongues in the first century all known languages?
@@tatalunin6614 Bible says all prophecy is to be tested. It says prophecy shouldn’t be despised. It says those who speak in a tongue are not understood by anyone hence the need for interpretation. Like all prophecy, if it’s predictive you “wait and see”. All other prophecy we use scripture to see if it meets what the Bible says prophecy should do in v3 of Cor 14 which says “But the one who prophesies speaks to people for their strengthening, encouraging and comfort.” If it meets any of those and doesn’t contradict scripture, we gladly accept it by faith as from the Lord. Bible says the church is edified by that, and we are. So if you say it is a redundant exercise, I’d suggest you take it up with the Holy Spirit because we are gladly following what he instructed.
Who is to say it is a known language or not? How would you check if it’s a known language or not withought knowing every language that has ever been spoken? Bible says “Indeed, NO ONE UNDERSTANDS THEM; they utter mysteries by the Spirit.” 1Cor14:2. I already have an interpretation and have discerned it. Why bother doing an exercise the Bible hasn’t commanded me to do?
I know this episode is old but do have 2 questions. What if you are in service and someone gives a tongue. You can feel it's power , intensity, and the fear of the Lord but the interpretation given seems lacking or just wrong?
Question 2. In the charismatic services i have been in, there are tounges given and sometimes interpretations however it APPEARS that every time a tounge and interpretation are given they are typically the same theme over and over. Example: " You are blessed, Jesus loves you and wants you to go deeper with him. God just wants you to know you are loved...." maybe it is just me but are we as a bride that insecure in who we are in Christ that we need such constant reminders? Does God not say anything else in service? I am asking with an honest heart. I really just wanna know.
Having grown up in the charismatic movement, I began to notice, in my circle there was no teaching on the topic of tongues. I was encouraged to just "trust". This show has been most helpful and has answered many questions I have had throughout the years. In a way, you have demystified this particular gift. Thank you.
"Should you evangilise someone with tongues?": Answer #1: No , Answer #2: "do you feel led by God to do that"
I think you should be careful NOT to set a point of doctrine that is different from what God would lead his believers to do. Situational settings of "should I' / "should I not" often have to do with the application of love in that situation. Including at times the loving thing is by the unction of the Holy Spirit, to speak words that convict of sin and judgement....
So, explaining why something would not be normative is excellent and good practice to put these things into words and teaching... so that caveat should always be: "be led by the Holy Spirit, in a way that puts love first in your applications of the gifts of God".
What book would you guys recommend that talks about the gifts more in depth? Thanks
Why I Am Not A Charismatic Dr. Peter S Ruckman. TOTAL EYE OPENER!
I haven’t read his work yet but I’ve heard that Dr Sam Storms has some great books on the gifts of the Spirit.
@@galatians22122 Is that from a cessationist viewpoint?
@@VanyaJohn it's just a small book but it certainly explains it in detail opened my eyes and pulled me out of the charismatic movement thank the Lord Jesus for that
- The Final Word : Biblical Response to the Case for Tongues and Prophecy Today.
- To Be Continued : Are the Miraculous Gifts for Today?
- Pentecost - Today? : The Biblical Basis for Understanding Revival.
- the Holy Spirit: His gifts and power.
Great Show! The other scripture not all speak in tongues, or baptism in the spirit, as a sign; perfect explanation. because not all christians speak in tongues. The word says Prophesying is a better gift. I think a better explanation is God gives the gifts to any christian as He sees fit and uses them to draw all men to him.
What about Mark 16 when Jesus says these signs will follow those who believe?
The 'tongues' I've heard in my life were repetitious gibberish, not an existing language that someone in the room could recognize (i.e., and name as German, Swahili, Pharsi, Cantonese, etc.) or translate (no translation was offered; people were praying as individuals simultaneously). As a musician and as someone who learned German in high school I noticed as well that the group tongues-speaking I witnessed manifested musical characteristics rather than linguistic characteristics. The participants also seemed to be in a trance-like state. You could tell that the repetitiousness wasn't an actual language because the patterns of repetition weren't syntactical--they weren't the variety of vocabulary and syntax that a language would use--but, again, were more like syllable-patterns-used-improvisationally-as-musical-expression.
I find it sad that, like the recent Flat Earth trend among some Christians, something like tongues--a ministry tool--can end up becoming so paramount that it then becomes divisive too so that believers 'with' it break fellowship with others 'without' it and form separate churches/denominations.
Biblical tongues-speaking seems to be foreign language-speaking for the sake of aiding Christian ministry; the stipulation that tongues must be translated when used during a public church meeting points to the need for the audience to UNDERSTAND what was said, first and foremost. Having learned German, there would be no particular point in me speaking in German to an audience of people who know only English. If I did, no one would understand and only the novelty of the sound of spoken German would be heard, essentially a waste of time when better things are more needful for people to hear and know during church. However, in a bilingual church/community both languages and the ability to translate two ways would be very handy and helpful for ministry--EVEN THOUGH both languages were learned by everyone the usual way and not miraculously bestowed by God upon believers who never learned them.
The idea that the miraculous gift of tongues may also represent a localized 'undoing' of God's confusion of language at Babel is intriguing and something I'm still thinking through.
Im sure Dr. Gordon Fee would dispute Joshs claim that Romans 8:26 does not refer to tounges. Fee takes about 4 pages to argue why the Greek and the oral nature of the culture must be understood that way. i say this because i spoke in tounges for many years and believed the "Alliance view" that tounges were for some and not all. It was honestly looking at the argument Dr.Fee gives that convinced me and interested the manifestations i saw in those i prayed to be filled with the Spirit.
Douglass Moo attempts to dispute Gordon Fees case, but im a cultural anthropologist and i think Gordon Fee case is much bettee in light that oral cultures like the ancient world... just didnt pray quietly in their minds..pray was always vocal..as was reading. So the "groaning" Paul talks about has to be VOCAL .. So you end up with either a strange practise of people groaning aloud or expressing themselves in tounges as other scriptures talk about. Fee mentions Paul use of the term "groaning" is because in verse 23 hes talked of creation "groaning", but the Roman christians probably understood it as refering to tounges.
Which is the view of the church Father Origen...maybe the oldesr commentarty.
Its an ability available to all who have the Spirit... not the sign of baptism with Spirit but its is a door way into more gifts
Love your content, I listen to so much! I agree with most everything- I’m a member of the PAOC(Pentecostal assemblies of Canada) and would say they are fairly balanced, conservative in the operation of gifts and use of tongues in public gatherings. It’s not common, but slips every now and then ;) one thing about a Pentecostal church, is they actually TALK about the gifts. TEACH about the gifts. They make room for prayer for them, for people to know and understand that you can actually eagerly desire them and not just avoid them at all costs. That they are edifying. They’re purpose. It’s not the focus- but at least we can have some understanding for those wanting to learn and know.
Maybe we should acknowledge that? Address the abuses yes- but avoid the talk as if you have a disdain for this denomination. They “paved the way” so to speak to re ignite what was dead for so long and is a blessing to the church.
Most other denominations, if cesassionist/baptist would speak against, Alliance would say they’re open.... but never practice or teach or operate. With the gifts in operation, like all churches full of sinful people, you get the ones that use it pridefully and of the flesh. I think it’s just comes with the cost of making room for Holy Spirit to move- the enemy would desire to make a mockery of what is good, pure, and Holy. He usually uses people to do it.
Canada is being rocked by the Holy Spirit. Soon.
Regarding the question can all Christians speak in tongues?
I believe this is the one gift every believer can do (privately, for their own edification), if like you said, they go to the Lord in prayer and ask for it. Notice in 1 Cor 14 it’s the one gift Paul wished everyone did and it’s the one gift he specifically said do not forbid.
Ch 12, All are not prophets, are they? (No).
Ch 14:5 ...but even more that you would prophesy.
If everyone can prophesy, and not be a Ch 12 prophet, then everyone can speak in tongues privately or to oneself and to God and not be a Ch 12 speak in tongues/interpretation in an assembly.
I don’t think anyone can say that gifts or tongues has ceased 100%. Are we saying God doesn’t perform through these anymore? The question should be. Have I seen a person with the gift of healing? Have I seen a person with the gift of tongues? Meaning, can they reproduce this gift on cue because of a gift. I believe Christians can heal, they can speak in tongues. Yet not on cue. Not something that is reproduced on command at the will of the person. If that was the case. That would mean that a person with the gift of healing should be able to heal everyone. The same for the gift of tongues. They should be able to talk using this language as if it was a mother tongue. That’s where I personally differentiate. Yes, you can have this gift. Yet it’s not based on your will or command. It’s not something we personally control. It’s Gods will to use us as vessels to serve others through these gifts and give Him ultimate glory. Paul Washer describes himself as a practical cessationist but he himself doesn’t deny that these gifts can continue now. m.ua-cam.com/video/XcJ7ow_rhYM/v-deo.html
Agreed! And this is the position that's held in soft cessationism; we'll believe, that just show us someone who does it on cue. And we're okay with God using it from time to time on whoever He chooses to.
I’m a continuationist. :) The gifts are for today. I just tend to be more reserved in the ability to “own” or command these gifts.
@@assyrianrelief well by that definition you're a soft continuationist, which is a similar position. Soft cessationism holds the position that we'll believe, just show us that's all. I don't think the gifts have ceased but I just can't see certain gifts on cue anymore.
Why was I completely changed after I was empowered by the Spirit with the evidence of biblical tongues?
Why do so many non-
Charismatic people and even
Pastors, completely change and become bold witnesses after they receive the Power of the Spirit with the evidence of other tongues??
One of the fruits of the Holy spirit is self control. The charismatic churches are out of control.
Well said, Alex. "Let all things be done decently and in order."
Self control is to deal with the flesh - lusts, anger, cursing. The Holy Spirit will manifest as He wishes.
@@matasaina2011 Also true, yet I would say the Spirit always desires to testify to the son.
Raised UPC, chronic seekers were somewhat 2nd class Christians until they spoke with tongues. The sad part is that there were many who faked tongues to be accepted.
So to make sure I am understanding...are you saying that you are speaking in a known language of the world but not known to the speaker? Or are you saying that you are speaking glossolalia that isn't actual words in a known language?
If all the gifts are from the same Spirit, couldn't any gift be available if we ask and desire?
Yall just answered my question. Well done.
Josh! Bro! You’re one of the few pointing out the distinction between classical Pentecostals and Oneness. But then you lump in “holiness”? Pentecostal Holiness (IPHC) is almost identical in doctrine to the Church of God (that you rightly divided from oneness.) The two denominations almost merged in the 80’s. The IPHC is a Wesleyan sanctification, trinitarian, Pentecostal church.
The voice is low. Can you make it louder?
For another point of view, you could search, Jacob Israel speaking in tongues, on UA-cam.
Why did ALL 120 people who were in the upper room speak in tongues when they received the Holy Ghost?
If speaking in tongues is prayer and is only a gift given to some believers, this would seem odd.
1. It can imply that those that receive the gift are not very good at praying, or
2. It can imply that those who speak in tongues are called to intercession, or
3. It can imply that those who do not speak in tongues, do not have the ability to pray deeply.
In my opinion, this is more problematic than merely saying that the natural evidence for receiving the gift of the Holy Spirit is speaking in tongues. This would mean that speaking in tongues, that is praying in tongues, would be available for every believer.
There are gifts that God gives to some and not to others. An example is biblical celibacy. Paul was an example. It is not to reframe and refuse yourself a wife and sex, but legitimately a gift of life without the concern nor desires for the flesh in that area.
Does this mean they're better than those of us who marry? No. Does it mean we're better than them? By no means.
So if God gives a gift to one and not the other, it doesn't meant He thinks they're better than you.
I play worship piano. I can not only offer a praise with my words, but also through my fingers. That is a "wider" prayer to God that most others can't do (who don't play instruments.)
@@Andromedon777
I think you have a very good point, however, I believe prayer power is supposed to be for everyone, but just a gifted group.
@@Andromedon777
So are you advocating that enhanced prayer power is only for the few?
On the other hand, if all prayers have the exact samw "enhancement" as speaking in tongues, who needs the gift?
@@randalwdeese Agreed. But what is considered "power", though?
Some do have deeper prayers the more developed you are.
@@randalwdeese They answer your second question in the video.
And the first, deeper prayer doesn't mean it is locked off to anyone. It takes time to develop your heart to be in line with God to pray prayers more in His will.
To be honest it totally weirds me out and I can’t get over it. But I am super skeptical of everything unless it is plainly written out in the word of God I am skeptical. I know it’s a real thing but I don’t know who’s really doing it or if it’s something else because I’ve seen videos of Hindus speaking in tongues and obviously they do not have the Holy Spirit of God
Nothing wrong with your unease & that's ok imo. I had to work through not receiving the gift of tongues. There are 8 other gifts, many more important. Satan has a fake for everything. With Hindus it's the Kundalini spirit. Very creepy. I'd rather not have any gift then to get deceived. If we focus on the fruits of the Spirit (love, joy, peace...) and less on the gifts, we'd be wise. Sad, it's one of the things that divides the brethren. Some with tongues can fall into pride as well. We can never go wrong being just simple Bible believing Christians, Kate.
I think people can be too fearful of being wrong or getting into demonic realms but the Holy Spirit gives us the abilities , not us .. we just need to trust Him to lead , guide us.
On occasion, a demon may manifest then that person will probably need deliverance .
Great teaching as always guys! Thanks!
The one thing I will challenge you with is this.
Holy Spirit is a person.. He like any person has a native tongue, His native language is "tongues" this is praying in the Spirit for us or our personal prayer language.
This is NOT the "gift" of tongues. The gift of tongues is yes for the edification of the church (other Languages prophecying, etc) there is as the Bible says a diversity of tongues.
However the personal prayer language is for our edification. As well as for praying the will of the Father when we know not what to pray. This is why this personal prayer language is available to anyone that has been baptized in the Holy Spirit.
Be blessed all 😇
Where is the verse that says tongues is the native tongue of the HS?
@@007Tinkins Hey sister 🙌
Great question I will try to answer it for you.
In 1st Corinthians 12:7 we see that the "gifts" or "manifestations" of the Spirit are for the profit of ALL the church.
New King James Version
But the manifestation of the Spirit is given to each one for the profit of all:
However when we pray in or with the Spirit we see that this is for personal edification and for the thanking and praising God 🙏
1 Corinthians 14:4
New King James Version
He who speaks in a tongue edifies himself,
1 Corinthians 14:15, 17
New King James Version
What is the conclusion then? I will pray with the spirit, and I will also pray with the understanding. I will sing with the spirit, and I will also sing with the understanding.
New King James Version
For you indeed give thanks well, but the other is not edified.
I believe that everyone who has asked for and received by faith the Holy Spirit has the ability to pray "with or in" Him.
To conclude I do not see the "gift of tongues" which is for the edification of All as the same thing as "praying with the Spirit" which is for personal edification and being thankful to God.
Be blessed sister hope this helps!
Emergency tongues 😂😂🤣
Question: if someone would say, I dont believe speaking in tongues is of the Holy Spirit, it may be worth that person considering that God (including the Holy Spirit who is God, does not change.
The gift of tongues is part of the Holy Spirit by which we pray when we dont know how to pray, or when we need to build ourselves up in our faith.
So when we are filled with the Holy Spirit we receive All His gifts to use as and when appropriate for the occasion.
It would surely be disrespectful to the Holy Spirit to say, I dont want that part of You - I dont believe it is of God. Yet, the Holy Spirit, with God the Father and God the Son IS GOD.
Can we cut the gift of tongues out of the Holy Spirit's being? No.
So if we believe God has given us His Spirit, then we must accept all of what He offers us; not pick and choose... We cant say, I'll take this part of You, thank you, but ugh! Not that part, because it is from the devil.
I understand people's reticence.
But if one of the gifts of the Holy Spirit Himself is the gift of tongues and we say it is from another source, not Him, is that not aligning the Holy Spirit?
I have at times wondered about the tongues the Lord has given me,... if it was from another source... until I heard Jews speaking Hebrew. I've not doubted its veracity since then.
1.) if the gift of tongues is a gift of unknown earthly languages, then why would Holy Spirit need to use an unknown/unlearned language to help you pray? English is a language, so why couldn’t He take over and begin praying? I don’t understand it as behind a private prayer language. I only understand is as being a gift God uses through you to preach the gospel and as a sign, as He did in the NT. I’m not disagreeing I’m genuinely just trying to propose a question and push back because it’s so twisted in certain denominations that it’s hard to even understand what the scriptures are saying.
So then tongues are for a sign, not to those who believe but to unbelievers; but prophecy is for a sign, not to unbelievers but to those who believe. (1 Corinthians 14:22, NASB)
Tongues is a language not gibberish it needs to have meaning - you guys missed or did not read all of Paul’s writings around that.
I am somewhat distressed by what I am hearing in this video . . I read things in the Book that don't seem to be "taken to heart" in a consistent manner, with regard to some things discussed, as potential justifications for what is being called "speaking in tongues". For example, with regard to someone not knowing how to pray (or what to pray for). Jesus himself tells us (in Luke 11: 9-10);
"And I say unto you, Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you. For every one that asketh receiveth; and he that seeketh findeth; and to him that knocketh it shall be opened"
He does not say ~make some sounds that you don't understand and it will be given to you~, so, I (nobody special) suggest asking Him for Help in better knowing how to pray, if that's what you want Help with. He's a "heart-knower", so He could "interpret" some sounds that you don't understand, but I suggest you take the direct approach, perhaps with those words Jesus spoke in mind, . . but according to Jesus (in Matthew 6:8) "... your Father knoweth what things ye have need of, before ye ask him" . . so relax, I suggest, and trust that He will understand and provide you with whatever you need to feel more confident in how you pray.
(And truth be told, I'm pretty sure you will thus BE praying in a way He will be pleased with ; )
I believe that what was being spoken of here was in reference to this:
“Likewise the Spirit helps us in our weakness. For we do not know what to pray for as we ought, but the Spirit himself intercedes for us with groanings too deep for words. And he who searches hearts knows what is the mind of the Spirit, because the Spirit intercedes for the saints according to the will of God. And we know that for those who love God all things work together for good, for those who are called according to his purpose.”
Romans 8:26-28 ESV
Along with:
“For one who speaks in a tongue speaks not to men but to God; for no one understands him, but he utters mysteries in the Spirit.”
1 Corinthians 14:2 ESV
Please don’t ever tell someone who is on their face before God, so desperate, so at their human end that they cannot utter intelligible words... to think better and try harder. Their tears and sorrow cause God to draw near to them; “The Lord is near to the brokenhearted and saves the crushed in spirit.”
Psalm 34:17 ESV
Hannah was so broken hearted before God that her prayers seemed like drunkenness to Eli. “As she continued praying before the Lord, Eli observed her mouth. Hannah was speaking in her heart; only her lips moved, and her voice was not heard. Therefore Eli took her to be a drunken woman. And Eli said to her, “How long will you go on being drunk? Put your wine away from you.” But Hannah answered, “No, my lord, I am a woman troubled in spirit. I have drunk neither wine nor strong drink, but I have been pouring out my soul before the Lord. Do not regard your servant as a worthless woman, for all along I have been speaking out of my great anxiety and vexation.””
1 Samuel 1:12-16 ESV
She wasn’t speaking in tongues but her desperation and sorrow is an excellent example of what many of us go through when we call out to God and our human words fail us. Please find compassion and love in your heart for people and never take such a cold and calculated approach to someone who can no longer find the words to cry out to God.
Even when we pray in our native tongue, it is by the Spirit because we can do nothing but that He has regenerated us:
“he saved us, not because of works done by us in righteousness, but according to his own mercy, by the washing of regeneration and renewal of the Holy Spirit,”
Titus 3:5 ESV
💜
@@postscriptciara ~ What you quote from Romans there is just what I was suggesting people trust in. It's not saying the person who does not know how to pray as they ought should utter groans too deep for words, it says "the Spirit himself intercedes for us with groanings too deep for words." Why not teach people that, if they are in doubt about how they should pray, is all I'm suggesting.
And that verse you quote from 1st Corinthians comes amidst expressing that he'd rather people prophesy, because "he that prophesieth speaketh unto men to edification, and exhortation, and comfort.
He that speaketh in an unknown tongue edifieth himself; but he that prophesieth edifieth the church." So I don't see why I should have justifi recommending a more direct approach to something like asking God for help in knowing how to pray, which everyone can hear of and be edified by.
(To clarify (I hope); I don't interpret much of this Spiritual gifts discussion in the Book, in a way that I see others express often . . so I'm really not all that interested in delving into what I hear of such things in this video. To me, Spiritual gifts means non-material gifts, including things like having a high IQ, or being able to learn new languages easily, or having the ability to learn complex math, or to master a craft or skill, or doctoring/nursing, etc, etc. All of which I see as gifts from God (where else ?) and which can be of good use to the "body of Christ" if the people who are thus gifted apply their gifts appropriately. I realize this is tantamount to blasphemy among many Christians these days,
When I read "gift of healing", I think of the doctor/nurse kind (primarily, I'm not thinking there's no such thing as being healed by God more "directly", so to speak) . . but that brings up one reason I don't see these "Spiritual gifts" as only having to do with the "by God directly" forms such "gifts" might take at times. Because those would be "miraculous" forms, and when I read in 1st Corinthians 12, a listing of said gifts, one is "the working of miracles". And if the whole list is speaking of various "miraculous" goings on, that should not be there.
"But the manifestation of the Spirit is given to every man to profit withal.
For to one is given by the Spirit the word of wisdom; to another the word of knowledge by the same Spirit;
To another faith by the same Spirit; to another the gifts of healing by the same Spirit;
To another the working of miracles; to another prophecy; to another discerning of spirits; to another divers kinds of tongues; to another the interpretation of tongues:
But all these worketh that one and the selfsame Spirit, dividing to every man severally as he will."
This is not the only reason I think what is being spoken of as "Spiritual gifts" essentially means gifts of the mind/heart, as opposed to material sorts of things, but I hope it can at least stave off the torches and pitchforks ; )
1 corinthians 13:8 - paul gave yall a hint on what was to come. Trust me, i grew up in pentecostal and long stories made short , your tickling your flesh thinking its the Holy Spirit, then you have times where things get crazy then your entertaining demons coming as angels of light, ive watch multiple times people teaching other people how to speak in tongues when its not the gift at all and they swear they have it because it " feels" like they have it, its a big mess out there and alot of people are deceived in many ways thats why the true work of Holy Spirit is not really doing any of the things your talking about, people will lie to you brother to make you feel good, to make you feel your super spiritual..
No where in the Word of God does it ever talk about a special prayer language, this is another misunderstanding of what Paul is talking about, he said I rather speak 5 words in a known tongues instead of 5 thousand words in an unknown tongue, your confusing speaking in tongues and praying in tongues... again , another sneaky deception. No where in God's word does it direct us to "pray in your prayer language " because you don't know what to pray for , another sneaky deception
"He that desires spiritual things, covet to prophesy"
Paul teaches you earnestly desire to prophesy, or declare the Word of God that people can understand.. stop telling people to desire a spiritual gift that God doesnt want them to have, God is the gift giver according to His will, not yours
There in no evidence that tongues was an angelic language.Any gifts that were given were to edify others. Not babbling. If it did exist it would have to be understood and only 1 to 3 people one at a time. And with an interpreter. It was only so different people could understand other languages.
You guys know so little of this you would be better off not talking of it at all.
Baptism of the Holy Spirit "with the evidence" of speaking in tongues is a false doctrine. The evidence is boldness in preaching the Gospel, any one or any few or all nine of the manifestations, and of course the fruit (Galatians 5).
That’s what I think because we can’t all speak in tongues. When gentiles spoke in tongues like for instance in acts it seems to be to prove to the Jews that they were actually saved but since we don’t have to prove that any more everyone who believes does not need to do that. Plus Paul says do you all speak in tongues? Asking a rhetorical question with the answer being of course no because the body has different functions not all the same thing
@@thegreatkate3336 Very astute, my sister. Paul is being rhetorical (as usual!), but Pentecostals have done a great job giving the Cessationists an excuse for not believing in the gifts by such doctrines and of course, their many abuses of orthopraxy, which are now coming to light.
You saw Paul losing his gifts later in Acts . He couldn't heal anymore but you guys are saying you are getting gifts. And you always see a Jew with signs and wonders. Come on guys.
If you come to Christ by faith, you must receive the Holy Spirit by faith. Not easy but He a available to us.
Paul not being able to heal at one point does not mean he lost his gift. People cannot heal when they want to, but when God wants to. At times even Jesus couldn’t heal, but that was due to the lack of faith on the part of others.
Brother's can you not see tongues are gifts in men, they will speak a language understood or they are satans angels of light. I must tell you straight, the body members will speak at least 2 languages. Ylosses means languages.
Please Be careful of pride. We do not know everything but in part. Edify the body in truth please, not that. I used to be there at one point in my walk with Christ. It only leads to pride.
@@ricknewton459 dear friend. It seems noone actually responds or reads comments on here, they are not remnants my friend. Its not pride my friend.i am trying to reach out to the body, maybe they are not ready for a Greek persoective.. it means change.. the proud do not change my friend. I do not beg. They are not listening to what the spirit says, thry love to talk
SUPERSPIRITUAL? Unfortunately this word gets thrown around to water down the true use of Tongues in prayer. To suggest what you pray through your mind is somehow equal to or “more” spiritual than praying out of your “born-again” new creation, your spirit as the Holy Spirit gives direct utterance, is naive, self promoting, or just biblically ignorant. Yet at the same time were are commanded to pray with our own understanding according to faith in His word as the Spirit leads us.
You LIE…deal with what I say, just do not ignore it. I am in the so called “Pentecostal world” you mentioned…and I do not believe “praying in Tongues” makes you more spiritual in the sense of “more righteous” or a better person, or more love for God, nor replaces the absolute need to follow the command to grow in the fruit of the Sprit in our spirits. But you cannot deny that with Tongues Paul said you pray the wisdom of God, to God, so are you saying what you come up with through your carnal mind in prayer is equal to what God prays through you bypassing your mind? And do not say Tongues does not bypass our minds, now for clarification here…which I would not have to do in the right setting, but here, let me clarify I DO HAVE control, of WHEN and IF I pray in the Spirit-tongues, but not what I am praying if by faith I am praying in supernatural Tongues from God. Stop with the “false explaining” of what you do not know about many Pentecostals, which by the way I am first and foremost a Christian, who walks in faith believing the true baptism that came at Pentecost, therefore Pentecostal if you must.
Some of what you teach here about Tongues is good and biblical, but you sure do add your own “explain” to it that waters down the importance of Tongues in our culture and time frame.
The fact I pray in Tongues does help me to grow spiritually if I yield to Jesus and I am growing in His word along with my praying. Obviously I am to pray with my understanding ALSO, which at times can be led by the Holy Spirit on a deeper level as I am yielded to Him, than at other times, that is praying in my known language. But every time I pray from my sprit by the Holy Spirit in Tongues, I am praying perfectly to God, whether I gain understanding or revelation of it then, down the road, or perhaps never in my consciousness. It is praying by faith, always, and it always has some type of results as we pray in faith.
Another thing, you talk about there are no different types of tongues by “explaining” the same word for Tongue is always used. Think for a moment, the same word for baptize or baptized, etc. is the same word each time also. But there is a significant difference in its meaning depending on what context it is in, baptized in the Spirit, in water, into the body of Christ.
The Tongues spoken by the 120 are not the same as Paul talks about in 1 Corinthians 12, for the latter there has to be an interpretation for the body to be edified. In Acts there were no “other gift” of Interpretation present. Now of course it did not edify the body but unbelievers, yet in Acts 10 the body (Gentiles and the Jewish Disciples) were edified without any interpretation. You are out on your “explain” limb on this issue.
Paul gives at least two if not three different contexts to Tongues in 1 Corinthians 14 alone, in revealing the proper use of the gift(s) spoken of in Chapter 12, during teaching time in the Church. Yes the main text concerning Tongues here was to correct the misuse of 1 Corinthian 12 gifts, but in explaining he covers other types of Tongues by individual context surrounding each scripture. Paul clarified one time that “no man” understands as they did in Acts 2, another time there must be an interpretation for the present body to be edified, and yet another that unbelievers will call you mad, for they do not understand as in Acts. Probably based on keeping in context about Tongues not all the 120 was speaking the same type of Tongues, or perhaps, God gave the unbelievers understanding in their own language…if you allow scripture to help interpret scripture.
This “type” in Acts 2 never happened again in Acts or Corinthians where anyone spoke in Tongues and unbelievers heard it and were amazed. Paul said in 1 Corinthians 14 if this was to happen, with unbelievers, they would think you were mad. At least you do not fall into the same explain as others saying Tongues was to preach the Gospel, as there are no scriptures proving that, not even once. Peter preached in a known language on the Day of Pentecost and then they believed. Whether it is a sign to an unbeliever or a sign following a believer, there are at least two types of Tongues if not three.
Paul did mention tongues of men and of angels, of course, your Baptist friends through the years gave another “explain” for what that means, but to flow with the different uses of Tongues in the New Testament, a Tongue of angels MIGHT explain what Paul meant, no man understands, better than the carnal interpretation it is hyperbole or whatever.
The only thing we can conclude for sure is Tongues is not always understood by a man, in Acts 8, 10, 19 and 1 Corinthians 12, 14. Therefore based on that probably in Acts 2 it was God giving the unbelievers a sign and wonder by giving them understanding.
Another thing, how many times through the years, have you heard a people group or person as unbelievers get saved through Tongues? Perhaps a hand full of times as a sign to them, but not a normal occurrence. And many times when a person of another language understands a Tongue spoken, they are already believers, so what is that purpose? To reveal the mighty works and praises of God?
There are tongues of men, but also tongues not of men…understood by no person anywhere, and if not understood by mankind then perhaps Satan and his spirits neither. That certainly would be the “wisdom” of God, Paul spoke of, that the Bible says Satan does not understand.
Point is this: Tongues are vitally important as Jesus commanded us to be baptized in with power, and when they were they all baptized they all spoke-not just some, again and again in Acts each time they were baptized in the Spirit, yet no recognition by you about this? Tongues are the it, not the Him, the Holy Spirit, but they are a manifestation the Holy Spirit brings when people were baptized by Jesus in the Holy Spirit.
If you have “ears to hear”, you also can easily see in Acts 8, first they were born-again, and then baptized in water. They had not received the Holy Spirit yet as the scripture records. Obviously it was talking about the “baptism in the Holy Spirit” not the Person of the Holy Spirit, as the Bible also declares we receive once we are born-again in the Spirit.
Peter and another was sent to “baptize them in the Spirit”, not to preach salvation to them, OBVIOUSLY! Then Simon SOMEHOW, obviously, recognized these same born-again Christians previously immersed in water, having been by the Person of the Holy Spirit baptized into the body of Christ, according to other scriptures on salvation, or they WOULD NOT HAVE BEEN BAPTIZED IN WATER. Side note, a person can say they are saved, lying about it, and be baptized in water, but the disciples or disciples would not baptize them in water without their confession of salvation. These are the people Peter and John were sent to, to baptize in the Holy Spirit, not to present Jesus to them by the Person of the Holy Spirit convicting them of their sins.
Then they laid hands on them-laying of of hands always had to do with gifts, not receiving Jesus or the Person of the Holy Spirit-check scriptures. Laid hands on those confessing Jesus as savior, and they were baptized in the Holy Spirit, that is the Holy Spirit came upon them. And Simon saw this, how did he see this? The same way those in Acts 2 “saw and heard” it?
Peter rebuked Simon for offering money for this same power, Peter told him he had no part in this “matter”. I believe the proper Greek word here for matter is “logos”, meaning something was said that was heard. Obviously with all the miracles Simon seen and the praising of God he heard prior to this when Phillip preached, it did not cause him to want to purchase what he heard. So obviously this “matter” Peter speaks of was Tongues as it is the only thing that flows every other time they were baptized in the Holy Spirit in the book of Acts.
Another thing you mentioned a false teacher about Tongues, Mr. MacArthur, referencing gibberish among the cults, etc. Simon was a huge leader in the demonic stuff and to him Tongues would sound like gibberish, just as to any carnal mind not knowing the language spoken. So, perhaps use his interpretation here to understand Simon wanted this power to lay hands on people to speak in Tongues. This is way more logical and scripturally sound that the “explain” they give of Acts 8 with Peter and John. It actually flows with every other time people who believe the message of Jesus when hands were laid on them or that the Holy Spirit came “upon” them, and they spoke in Tongues-each and every time.
IT TAKES less SPECULATION and makes for better interpretation of what I just “explained”, than how you explained away the significance of Tongues in your talk.
Yet you probably will not agree with me, why? No “ears to hear”. It takes faith that the Gospel of Jesus, the word of God, brings, not the traditions, ideas, presuppositions, and higher “doctrinal” learning of man “explains”.
Of course with all due respect for the accuracy you do have in certain areas of Tongues.
Please, your explanation about the Assemblies of God is not smart, and ignorant. How many in your Baptist or Baptist doctrine you promote as a Charismatic, is baptized in water? The Bible commands to be baptized in water. Water does not save you no more than does the baptism in the Holy Spirit saves you, but both are very important.
The Bible is true and every man a liar: Acts tells us they all spoke in Tongues who were baptized in the Holy Spirit as the Holy Spirit came upon them. Acts, 2, 8, 10, 19.
We find NO evidence of the 1 Corinthians 12 gift of Tongues that Paul said must have a gift of Interpretation to edify the body, yet people in Acts 2, unbelievers were edited by the sign, and the witness of the Gentiles and the faith of the Jewish Disciples was edified by hearing them speak in Tongues in Acts 10, YET WITHOUT ANY INTERPRETATION PERIOD!
Many times people who have been “offended” by a certain group of people will spite their own “spiritual” face by cutting off their noses (proper interpretation). You have no Biblical grounds for what you teach if you would actually read the scripture in 1 Corinthians 12, and Acts, with your presuppositions or your disgust for Pentecostals removed.
It is obvious not ALL will speak in the gifts of various Tongues in 1 Corinthians 12 as Paul declares, yet EVERY SINGLE time in Acts when they spoke in Tongues, even those Simon acknowledged in Acts 8, they ALL spoke in Tongues and never with any Interpretation by a gift the Holy Spirit gave as He willed.
And Paul in 1 Corinthians 14 said He wish they ALL spoke in Tongues, just not the gift of Tongues while in a public service without the gift of Interpretation, and then two or three, NOT ALL of them!
Seriously, you are straining at gnats here and swallowing a camel of presupposition.
We see Tongues in Acts but NEVER once the gift of Interpretation, YET, NOT ONCE was it stated any of them were out of order nor were they corrected. You have to “search” history books and Baptist “higher training” to find an explanation that does not contain the obvious in scripture I am speaking about.
I could easily give scriptures that refute what you mention against the Pentecostal message. That is that all can speak in Tongues if they are baptized in the Holy Spirit. There is a lot of false teaching that creeps into your Denominations, the same as the Baptist who many do not even believe the Bible is inerrant today, or the Pentecostal denominations.
There are many things I disagree with as there are things I agree with each of these different denominations or movements. But, history, since you like history, proves that ALL Pentecostal and Charismatics believed what I am saying the Bible says in their beginnings.
Even Baptist and Methodist spoke in Tongues early on. One group goes in the ditch on one side and another on the other side, but ALL spoke in Tongues wherever the Bible mention they were baptized in the Holy Spirit or He came upon them.
You boys, young men, are not very mature in your practice and understanding of Tongues based on what you say: Paul in 1 Corinthians is not address the “whole” issue of Tongues, only what he started in 1 Corinthians 12, about the gifts to edify the body of believers while in a service for teaching the Bible.
Paul doe mention different aspects and “types” of tongues in chapter 14, but his main purpose is to clarify how to walk in love as we operate in the gifts, especially Tongues. There are a lot of chapters in the New Testament to do with Tongues, than Paul explained water baptism. And yet he had to correct some problems due to water baptism also.
He never mentioned once that he wish all were water baptized in his correction, but HE SURE did more than once that he wish ALL spoke in Tongues in his correction of Tongues in the teaching of the body.
You are exposing your prejudice or perhaps ignorance, respectfully meaning a lack of understanding, pertaining to Tongues.
People speaking goobbleygook in a church, I would run. Big misinterpretation of Gods word. And gifts? nup, super special magic, also run.
That is God's Holy Spirit you are dismissing. The sane Holy Spirit that jesus was baptized in and raised Him from the grave.
We are told in the Word to worship God with all our heart, soul and mind, how you are supposed to do that babbling nonsense you don't understand is ridiculous. The Corinthian church upon which much of the doctrine of babbling tongues is based was a Church who had brought with them in to their church traditions of their pagan worship which included 'ecstatic' speech or babbling that supposedly bought them closer to their pagan deities. Such pagan practices common in Kundalini yoga today have no place in worshipping God
Indeed. 👍
If that was true, Paul would tell them to stop praying in tongues, as it would be purely a pagan practice. Is that what we see in his letter to the Corinthians? What does 1 Corinthians 14:39 say? Are you disagreeing with the Apostle Paul here? Are you saying that Scripture is wrong and that you are right based off of your insufficient, eisegesis of the passage?
Do not forbid speaking in tongues.
I speak in tongues more than all of you.
@@ReachOutMinistries Yes, it meant he spoke many languages (foreign languages), not many types of gibberish.