"I want to get this to be a softmod." Ahh so you want this to become the new tradition when fast food employees know they are about to be fired: start playing doom on the order screens, get fired, walk away with the manager trying to figure out how to get the system back to normal
I'm a contractor that installs these things all the time, so this is good info to have! These things communicate serially via RJ-12 connections with controller PCs. I think we need to see if we can get a network going for some Quake action!
@@matthewrease2376 RJ-12 is the designation for 6 wire connectors. Same footprint as the 11, just more conductors. Most people won't know the difference.
The version string at 8:28 reveals some guy named Andrew compiled the BIOS on his MacBook Pro back in 2015. The BSOD error 0x7B means a missing storage driver. (Yes, I too wonder why I remember BSOD stopcodes.)
STOP 7B happens when the system switches to protected mode and can't find the boot drive. They happen for the stupidest reasons (e.g. Windows was installed while AHCI was disabled in the BIOS and then you turn AHCI on). I'm surprised someone got XP to run on a USB stick on a machine with a wonky BIOS without the STOP 7B. I suspect they flashed a better BIOS or perhaps booted from a RAM disk image. There are some fun tricks you can do if you get into Windows Embedded. I once created a USB based Windows installer (or rather deployment system) for a headless system with only a text-based LCD front panel. It basically booted into freedos from USB storage device or CD-ROM, then used a batch file with a custom program to control the front panel to go through the setup steps. It could partition the hard disk, reboot, format the hard disk (and remember across reboots that it was doing that), reboot to Windows PE, copy a RAM disk image file and configure Windows XP Embedded to boot from that RAM disk image every time from then on. Great fun!
is it, though...? to run, XP only needs a Pentium 60 on Socket 4 or even a Pentium Overdrive 63 on a 486 socket, with 64MB of RAM at install, and a 16-colour ISA video card (the stated 233MHz Pentium and Super VGA are "practical minimums"). Of course you can get silly and underclock to less than 10MHz and take out RAM after install (down to 20MB or so) and boot up in half an hour.
@@RWL2012 As someone who tried living with XP with a 233MHz K6 and 128 MB of RAM, I’m skeptical of your numbers. Also my 486 DX2 could barely run Win95.
Yeah, basically pre-building an OS image. Pretty typical in the *nix space especially with cloud/virtualized computing. Nobody runs through actual installers anymore.
SeaBIOS means that most likely there is running a coreboot underneath. Since coreboot and SeaBIOS is licensed under GPL, Select Electronics should provide source files somewhere. If don't just remind them that they have to do that. With the source code you can change the SeaBIOS Settings and re flash it with Linux and the Software Flashrom.
The bump bar I bought had actually come from a Starbucks. I’m not sure if it’s from a location that closed, or if the chain is upgrading to a newer system.
@@Yupster2501 if you got the gpio keypad working you could probably make a mod to pull up a jpg or bmp of what the blank order screen would look like and without a keyboard it would be a dos sleeper pc.
First ewww Starbucks I live in Denver so there is no reason to go there for anything but water and second they are always packed here and for the life of my I have no idea why. I mean the coffee is burnt the espresso is flat and the foofoo drinks aren’t coffee to me. Guess I’m just a snob lol. Edit forgot the period at the end of that.
Considering it's like a Pentium equivalent, I'm not surprised that it can run Doom. Back when I was a teen, I remember playing Doom II on one of the Compaq DeskPro 486 at my father's workplace. IIRC it had a 50 MHz 80486 CPU, 2 MB of RAM, and most likely a minimalistic integrated graphics chip :)
I distinctly remember my dad heming and hawing over whether he could get his scratch-built 486 to run DooM without too much in the way of expensive new components back in the day. He did. It ran well. The new memory was put to good use elsewhere, as well. I was forever traumatised by Daisy's head.
Kitchen worker here, yeah they are called bump bars and what you said was completely correct, the output(s) the bar would be connected too would be partitioned into at least in my case, 8 different sections with 1 order per section, with the buttons 1 through 8 corresponding to a particular area of the screen. So pressing 5 and Bump/Clear would clear the number 5 area on the order screen.
That X-DOS thing got me mightily curious. I worked on a team that developed a MS-DOS clone between 1987 and 1989 and it was eventually sold to a Korean company. Could it be...?
@@paulstubbs7678 But if the actual premise is "run Doom", Doom is an MS-DOS game, and the hardware natively runs an MS-DOS clone... the first step should not be "so let's install Windows 98 on it, and when that fails move up to XP" I was kinda hoping for "install Doom to the internal flash memory device, overwriting the kitchen software, so it boots straight to Doom"
Doubt many of them are adlib/soundblaster compatible. You could try an USB2LPT adapter and use a covox (there are "emulators" and doom ports which support those)
@@1337Shockwav3 Ooh yeah, that might work. Lots of overhead but a 300mhz CPU should be able to do the heavy lifting if the bus has the same freq. and it isn't just a standard.
@@1337Shockwav3 The Covox Speech Thing won't be usable with a USB2LPT adapter (at least not without modifications). It would probably be easier to write a USB stack with audio for DOS. Or throw together a lightweight Linux distribution, then USB sound support will be trivial.
SeaBIOS has no real configuration screen. You configure it on compile time. There is some option to change boot order though, but has to be compiled in.
@@thepuzzlemaster64 just use an hex editor and change it, its not easy but you can have a pretty good idea of where to find if it was compiled from some open source base
Luiz Felipe So uhh...I have this situation where I bought a laptop pre-modded with CoreBoot + SeaBIOS (works well, but could be better). How does one dump the BIOS without these special tools and replace it without potentially "bricking" the laptop? I think I might need to spend some time looking at the SeaBIOS and CoreBoot manuals just to get an idea of what I'm in for if I decide to do this...
@@thepuzzlemaster64 Dumping a ROM depends more on your laptop hardware than on the BIOS. Usually you have to use a eprom programmer made for that specific machine. But if you know electronics you can try interfacing it with a RPI or an Arduino, iow, you make a eprom programmer.
You can't brick it if you have an eprom programmer. It's the lowest level possible. Unless we are talking about fuses in microcontrollers, but that's a PC.
He went too far... he could've just removed the chip that had the original OS on it and the system would've defaulted to booting form the SD Card. Either that or just run it rom USB... which he ended up doing when it was all said and done anyway (the SD Card would've been better).
I am so surprised you didn't try ME. It might have solved the PnP issue since it's 98 SE under the hood with a lot more updates. Also, could have tried Windows 2000 as well 😊 Awesome video nonetheless!
@@h3yw00d Hehe. ME wasn't actually that bad for me. I think it all depended on the hardware. I have very fond memories of ME. Was playing Half-Life and Max Payne religiously. I remember formatting a few times for weird issues but for the most part it was fine. My friends computer at the time was horrible on ME though.
What an amazing product. Someone made a Mini Dos gaming PC based on this DM&P chip but it's a build your own device so you can essentially get a mini modern dos PC. I'm planning on doing that.
You could have tried a lightweight distro of Linux. I know it wouldn't have been able to run the PC version of Doom but would have potentially given you a fully functional installation with no missing drivers.
One time at Starbucks, one of these stopped showing orders and became interested as I had trouble finding information about them for troubleshooting. So glad for this new information! Very Cool!
Seller: This is the world leading kitchen appliance computer, it's revolutionised kitchen work and effectivised workplaces around the globe. Buy: Yeah, sure. But can it run Crysis? Seller: I'm sorry, what? Buyer: CAN. IT. RUN. CRYSIS? If not, its not worth my time, I saw another model that at least can run Doom. Seller: I.. I don't know how to respond to that..
300-MHz Pentium-ish? It should be able to handle Quake nicely. I won't place bets on GLQuake, though. Hardware acceleration is a dubious proposition. It should also be able to handle Duke Nukem 3D and Dark Forces. No reason Id should have all the fun.
Now if we could get it to run Morrowind then the employees could claim: I would have fixed your order but I took an arrow to the knee! If you need some assistance one of our staff seems to always carry a leek with them.
When you setup the CD driver in DOS, you give it a name. Since that device doesn't have a CD-ROM it's going to fail to load the driver. So that's what that error is. I'm guessing he used a DOS boot disk he found online.
The boot order is almost certainly set up that way so a tech can boot diagnostic or recovery software off a USB stick without having to mess around with a keyboard. I bet there are USB sticks that will do a clean install of a new OS and POS software in case the internal storage gets corrupted. I also wouldn't be surprised if the deleted USB port was spec'd by the original customer, possibly to stop employees from using it to charge their phones.
Exactly. And the boot order also makes sense concerning the SD card, as the internal flash has higher priority. If it’s not present or not bootable, the SD card may take its place. SeaBIOS configuration works through a separate application that would usually be in the boot device menu, but appears not to be installed. In this version, it might also be hardcoded.
And then at 10:45 you just brought it to the full revolution level. If I can go into one of my old kitchens, plug my phone into their bump bar, and start playing Doom on their order screen, I will have become my own hero.
Writing to that flash chip is probably easier than you think it is. Get a TL866 programmer and a SOIC-8/SOP-8 test clip, and you can literally clip it directly to the chip and read/write it from a PC. That exact chip you showed at 9:23 is compatible with it. EDIT: Actually, I paused it at the part where you showed the chip to write this comment, and hadn't watched past it. I guess you already know it's even easier than that, since the virtual floppy drive is writable from software and you can boot from removable media.
I haven't looked at the specific details of this device but I would guess the SPI flash also contains the system firmware (coreboot and SeaBIOS). This writing a disk image directly to it would brick the device. But that makes me think, since it runs coreboot it should be possible to make a custom BIOS, maybe even one which presents the internal keypad as a PS/2 keyboard using SMM.
TheRasteri has a video where he made a mini DOS machine using a PC/104 industrial PC board. The nice thing is it has a slot to accept the homespun sound card he build for it. The PC/104 board he'd selected uses a similar Vortex CPU.
Back when slackware linux first came out, the doom demo was always available to install, so it doesn't use that much memory, granted if you had a soundcard and the creatives were just coming out it had better sound, but brings back memories
I was thinking while watching this, especially at the end, Linux would be fun to put on it, and if you *do* use Linux, you could use a cheap USB Sound device to get that going too. Full doom experience, Just bring a USB Hub.
While most of the technical discussion was above me, I really enjoyed this video. Kudos for getting Doom to run. As for the lack of a sound card, I had my first PC for several years before I bought a used AdLib card, so I was well used to PC speaker sounds.
Just saw this video and glad I did! Regarding the OS, it looks like one of those stripped down with very superficial modifications to MS-DOS that contains just a few changes to text and a few routines to make the DOS experience a bit more interesting. I distinctly remember that upgraded and coloured DIR function being applied to DOS 5.0 PCs among the techie crowd in the early 90s along with VESA framebuffers to enhance game performance and advanced memory managers that could be simply added to the autoexec.bat and/or command.com config files. I actually did something very similar to my Amiga workbench before jumping to PCs when I was a teenager, making a custom workbench I called 'RatBench' that stripped out all unnecessary processes to allow more free RAM and room on the floppy disc to add pirating and wardialing software, a 'greets' listing on bootup and added a randomized copper list to give a multicoloured background to the Amiga's GUI years before Windows 3.0 did the same (and more) for PCs. I distributed this among friends and fellow geeks, and was amazed to find it floating around still years after the Amiga was dead in North America. I wonder how this guy who gussied up MS-DOS would feel if he saw this video? Since someone either jacked this version of DOS out of the black holes of DOS piracy or possibly actually licenced it for this Point of Sale terminal programmer, his response could go either way. ;-)
I used to work at a pizza place that used the "Bump" and "Recall" version of the bar you showed a pic of. While we had Dell PCs running Win7 w/ touch screens to take orders, I had always assumed the bump bars we had on the make table and cut table were just "dumb terminals" that depended on the server in the office for all functions(especially since the bars would reboot any time the server went down). I knew that the bars had a basic bios since it would show that when the server rebooted or when you bumped the bar too aggressively(because the port where the power supply plugged in was looser than a $5 hooker), but I had no idea it had an actual CPU inside. Interesting video!
Considering that device has a rough equivalent to a Pentium 200mhz you should be able to run Quake on it without too much trouble. Doom ran quite well on most 486 based PC's (and decent on a fast 386 based system!) back in the day so anything with a Pentium or faster chip should easily run it like a champ!
Seeing Compris brought me back to my NCR helpdesk days. Didn't really like the job but it more than paid for rent, college, car mods, and put food on the table.
Managed to track down a zip file with the x-dos 5 files (Website was pcorner so others can track it down to). Wasn't a bootable floppy image though, but it was a zip file that could be used. I inserted the folder inside a drive image in a virtual machine. Ran the install command, and this allowed me to install x-dos to a floppy image. Now i got the full thing, funky colors included. Then i used a image file editor to replace the files on the floppy with the ones from the zip file and boom! Official working install floppy :D Now i can very easily install this in my virtual PC's, although it seems extremely picky with harddrive booting and i have only gotten it to work with floppy disks so far with harddisk access flatout failing. Perhaps this doesn't support large disks?
You have it right about the use case for the bump bar. Those orders are timed and recorded on the back of house server for analytics later to determine any bottlenecks in the kitchen. so making an order and clearing it in time is important.
Most modern 32-bit Linux distros require a 686 class computer to run though (Pentium II or higher), so it is likely that it does not work on a 586 chip. This is due to newer instructions.
@@milasudril That's assuming it's a plain 586 chip without any newer instructions, which I doubt given this has PCIe and other surprisingly modern creature comforts. Even if it is you'd just have to boot an older distro.
@@owowowdhxbxgakwlcybwxsimcwx Debian 8 Jessie (released 2015) should work fine on an ordinary Pentium, you just need to choose the correct kernel on startup. It will automatically default to the 686 kernel which needs CMOV. Arch has always required a 686 at minimum and 32 bit support was dropped as an official Arch platform a few years ago. You'd need to use the community i686 port, but obviously that will only work if this CPU has 686 functions like CMOV and probably also PAE.
We used these when I worked at a Pizza Hut years ago. We had Bump/Recall units at the make-table and a different unit on the cut-table that had options to scroll one-by-one or page-by-page.
I like how he said he wont be installing custom windows in the previous video and then...Doom challenge; you have a new subscriber, nothing makes my day like watching another device being Doomed!
I've installed win98 on a Grocery register from the mid 80' It had a custom 100 button keyboard with pictures of produce, which had its own cutom ISA board to register keypresses, it was a 286 PC internally and it was somewhat funky to run games on it!
Did you try plugging in a mouse in the KBD PS2 connector? On some singleboard computers from that period a custom pinout was used to allow both KBD and mouse to be plugged in simultaniously through a PS2 Y cable that you plugged both keyboard and mouse into.
Win98 drivers for strange hardware is often solvable by looking up the chips, figuring out what else they were used in at the time that hopefully has win98 drivers. The Pleo robot dinosauer toy had a wierd serial connection internally that took AT commands, so I found an USB modem driver, which just worked with a common USB to rs232 adaptor. So like that trying different things on a hunch is often successful. To that Win98 drivers are simple, so sometimes you can swap .dll files from one driver to another to hack together something workable.
You should be able to mount the flash drive as direct access in virtual box and install from your XP ISO with slip streamed drivers. Or just install standard XP and install the drivers in virtual box and it should boot. I’ve messed around with a lot of these weird SOCs and that method seems to always work
@9:00 I seem to remember some older computers used to have bios that ran off a drive or floppy, maybe there is a bios that can be ran like an OS that will change hardware settings?
Nicely done. Now, an idea for part 2... it would be really funny to play Duke Nukem level "Duke Burger" on the hardware that belongs in a restaurant kitchen. :)
Hi @This Does Not Compute, another great video, thank you. You mentioned that you would the links to the tools you used, did you forget or are they no longer in the description?
"So you're running off a USB drive." "Yes." "So can you use this USB mouse?" "No, because there are no USB ports." "But you just said you're running off of an-" "No I didn't." "Yes you did." "No."
Is auto code execution possible? And given that a single unit has the apps for different companies I wonder if with automatic code execution if we this could be used in any meaningful way in the field. Wish I had the time and funds to play with this.
The wear on the 1 button gave me flashbacks, I started working in a Wendy's about 2 months after it opened so everything was brand new. By year 3 almost all of the 1 buttons were worn off just because of how much more you tend to hit it.
Would guess that it boots from USB first because updates would be shipped on USB flash drives (or maybe downloaded with instructions to put it on a USB drive). I designed an embedded system at work and I used this exact same methodology - default to boot from USB, and the "OS" on the USB would simply contain all the software and data needed to update the internal storage. That autoexec boot script also would cover any post-update cleanup/conf rework/etc. that might need to be done. It also explains why the USB port was exposed on later revisions. The SD card slot would likely exist for add-on software or extra storage for specific configurations.
Also if you look very carefully at the DMP website, you'll find in their archive a programming reference that shows how to access the GPIO from DOS. Of course somebody would have to know C or assembly, but the example looks pretty simple. There might even be a utility in there (can't remember). Somebody could then use FASM to make a TSR that converts those into keystrokes. That part I don't know how to do, but it's possible.
I’m wondering if there’s a way to use a USB sound card to make it have sound. I’m assuming if you got one that’s sound blaster or adlib compatible that a standard driver would work.
Running doom trough external means: Successful Running doom without external equipment: the following needs to be done 1. create a backup of the original DOS 2. check how much space is on the on-board flash 3. see how the membrane is controlled 4. see if it is possible to flash a new bios 5. backup the original BIOS. 6. test new BIOS 7. check if a DUAL boot Dos system is possible. 7.1 if dual boot DOS is not possible, test if a new dos version/ reverse engineered X-DOS can both run doom and the POS system 8. reverse engineer X-DOS for hidden features. 9. Play doom without extra Keyboard/tools of the original flash storage
There is actually a pc speaker driver that on my 1996 era Toshiba laptop which didnot have a sound card, *did* in fact provide music support for Win 95 and worked for Doom.And, there was a Linux kernel driver for pc speaker support that worked well as well. In that it was better than nothing type of *worked well*
Jump to 20:39 to skip past all my blathering. You're welcome.
8:53, I've been a seabios hacker for a while, and they don't HAVE a BIOS SETUP application. That's why you can't "get into" it.
You have to legit change C source code and assembly in order to persist changes.
The blathering is why we're here!
@@joell9319 Right?
Don't forget pro-dos
How spicy would you like your chicken?
I'm Too Young To Die
Hey, Not Too Rough
Hurt Me Plenty
Ultra-Violence
Nightmare!
Oh my...
Welcome to Doom chicken...
Hurt Me Plenty.
My mate orders Ultra-Violence and gets I'm too Young to Die. Minnesota restaurants.
I'll order Hurt Me Plenty
I'll go with Ultra-Violence please.
"I want to get this to be a softmod."
Ahh so you want this to become the new tradition when fast food employees know they are about to be fired: start playing doom on the order screens, get fired, walk away with the manager trying to figure out how to get the system back to normal
Or, better yet, open the floppy drive in Windows 98 😂
@@Mainyehc Nah make it even more trivial, Windows 95
I'm a contractor that installs these things all the time, so this is good info to have! These things communicate serially via RJ-12 connections with controller PCs. I think we need to see if we can get a network going for some Quake action!
Death Match at Dominos!
imagine showing up to a lan party with one of these things lmao
I'm familiar with RJ11 and 45, not so much 12...
@@matthewrease2376 RJ-12 is the designation for 6 wire connectors. Same footprint as the 11, just more conductors. Most people won't know the difference.
@@bugiroff9926 kinda surprised they didn't just split it into categories like with RJ-45 "Ethernet", cat 5, 5e, 6, etc
I have ZERO time to fool with all this stuff. That's why I just ordered TWO of them. Thank you very much. #thisdoesnotcompute
The version string at 8:28 reveals some guy named Andrew compiled the BIOS on his MacBook Pro back in 2015. The BSOD error 0x7B means a missing storage driver. (Yes, I too wonder why I remember BSOD stopcodes.)
My guess is that when XP initializes the USB stuff it kills the bios emulation and can no longer find the boot device.
STOP 7B happens when the system switches to protected mode and can't find the boot drive. They happen for the stupidest reasons (e.g. Windows was installed while AHCI was disabled in the BIOS and then you turn AHCI on).
I'm surprised someone got XP to run on a USB stick on a machine with a wonky BIOS without the STOP 7B. I suspect they flashed a better BIOS or perhaps booted from a RAM disk image.
There are some fun tricks you can do if you get into Windows Embedded. I once created a USB based Windows installer (or rather deployment system) for a headless system with only a text-based LCD front panel. It basically booted into freedos from USB storage device or CD-ROM, then used a batch file with a custom program to control the front panel to go through the setup steps. It could partition the hard disk, reboot, format the hard disk (and remember across reboots that it was doing that), reboot to Windows PE, copy a RAM disk image file and configure Windows XP Embedded to boot from that RAM disk image every time from then on. Great fun!
Ya, I instantly recognized the stop code as well. I am wondering if you could run a dos based bios configuration tool and modify the bios settings?
If there is one stop code one remembers, it should be 7B. Way too common and painful.
@@jacquelineliu2641 That and the Linux equivalent "Kernel Panic - Not Syncing : VFS unable to mount root file system"
This is a very important accomplishment to society.
The most significant consequence might be that a few unwise kitchen staff get fired for playing computer games when orders slow down!
Y'know, I kept thinkin', "it would be perfect for runnin' BurgerTime!" :D
i love burgertime
@@SmilyTheMare Peter pepper lacked pants
exactly what I was thinking
SeaBIOS is very commonly used with open source virtualisation platforms like KVM, Xen etc. for the VMs' BIOSes
Also it would sound familiar if you are used to hacking anything with ChromeOS
@@thecryingsoul Aha! I was wondering where I heard that from! I installed linux on my chromebook!
ChromeOS devices also use a stub of SeaBIOS
Is SeaBIOS open source implementation of a BIOS software, unlike closed source Award, AMIBIOS, Phoenix, etc.?
@@markusTegelane Yes that's exactly what it is, albeit a bit more basic, as it only implements standard BIOS features.
The fact that someone was able to get Windows XP running on one of these OAsys iPAD devices is impressive
is it, though...? to run, XP only needs a Pentium 60 on Socket 4 or even a Pentium Overdrive 63 on a 486 socket, with 64MB of RAM at install, and a 16-colour ISA video card (the stated 233MHz Pentium and Super VGA are "practical minimums"). Of course you can get silly and underclock to less than 10MHz and take out RAM after install (down to 20MB or so) and boot up in half an hour.
How is this comment three days old when the video came out three hours ago?
@@DrakeDaraitis Patreon more than likely.
Hahaha thats amazing 👏 🤣
@@RWL2012 As someone who tried living with XP with a 233MHz K6 and 128 MB of RAM, I’m skeptical of your numbers. Also my 486 DX2 could barely run Win95.
In the tweet thread the guy mentions that he used nlite to slipstream the drivers into a custom xp image so that's likely the step you're missing
Yeah, basically pre-building an OS image. Pretty typical in the *nix space especially with cloud/virtualized computing. Nobody runs through actual installers anymore.
Yeah, the IDE driver is incorrect thats the reason for STOP 7B
The nt5x-install or nt6-fast-install scripts are also a good option for preinstalling windows to USB drives or SD cards
I knew it! I thoroughly enjoyed this 😁
I love everything about this, the video, that you’re in the video, the interaction between you two. Amazing content both of you. Thanks!
Yes
Hahahaha, I had no idea you two knew each other. Nice! Love both of your channels.
Seeing your name made me want to watch this
USB sound!!! Without sound, it's not playing Doom.
SeaBIOS means that most likely there is running a coreboot underneath. Since coreboot and SeaBIOS is licensed under GPL, Select Electronics should provide source files somewhere. If don't just remind them that they have to do that.
With the source code you can change the SeaBIOS Settings and re flash it with Linux and the Software Flashrom.
As a starbucks barista who uses one of these everyday, this is giving me some ideas for slow days...
The bump bar I bought had actually come from a Starbucks. I’m not sure if it’s from a location that closed, or if the chain is upgrading to a newer system.
Don’t forget to add a Boss Key ;)
@@Yupster2501 if you got the gpio keypad working you could probably make a mod to pull up a jpg or bmp of what the blank order screen would look like and without a keyboard it would be a dos sleeper pc.
don't forget to open the floppy drive in Windows 98! ;)
First ewww Starbucks I live in Denver so there is no reason to go there for anything but water and second they are always packed here and for the life of my I have no idea why. I mean the coffee is burnt the espresso is flat and the foofoo drinks aren’t coffee to me. Guess I’m just a snob lol. Edit forgot the period at the end of that.
Considering it's like a Pentium equivalent, I'm not surprised that it can run Doom. Back when I was a teen, I remember playing Doom II on one of the Compaq DeskPro 486 at my father's workplace. IIRC it had a 50 MHz 80486 CPU, 2 MB of RAM, and most likely a minimalistic integrated graphics chip :)
2MB of RAM? I kinda recall DOOM needing 4MB to run at all, and 8MB to run well. That information is ancient however, so take with a grain of salt.
I distinctly remember my dad heming and hawing over whether he could get his scratch-built 486 to run DooM without too much in the way of expensive new components back in the day.
He did.
It ran well.
The new memory was put to good use elsewhere, as well.
I was forever traumatised by Daisy's head.
SeaBIOS is the default BIOS QEMU uses for x86 and x86_64 emulation and also the most common option for Coreboot payloads, which this device also uses.
... It runs QEMU?
Windows XP has entered the chat.
and the most used payload used with coreboot.
Also, it's used to update Chromebooks to run Linux.
Kitchen worker here, yeah they are called bump bars and what you said was completely correct, the output(s) the bar would be connected too would be partitioned into at least in my case, 8 different sections with 1 order per section, with the buttons 1 through 8 corresponding to a particular area of the screen. So pressing 5 and Bump/Clear would clear the number 5 area on the order screen.
Why is this episode so much fun ? I am geeking out.
That X-DOS thing got me mightily curious. I worked on a team that developed a MS-DOS clone between 1987 and 1989 and it was eventually sold to a Korean company. Could it be...?
What was is called?
@@yoissy LZ-DOS, but I very much doubt the name was kept after it was sold.
@@JCCyC interesting!
Boss: "Where's the order of fries at?"
Cook: "What order of fries?"
Boss: "Haven't you been paying attention to the screen?!"
The screen:
I spent the first 20 minutes of the video basically yelling at the screen "WHY DOESN'T HE JUST RUN DOOM FROM DOS"
Because the video would be too short
@@paulstubbs7678 But if the actual premise is "run Doom", Doom is an MS-DOS game, and the hardware natively runs an MS-DOS clone... the first step should not be "so let's install Windows 98 on it, and when that fails move up to XP"
I was kinda hoping for "install Doom to the internal flash memory device, overwriting the kitchen software, so it boots straight to Doom"
I kept yelling wtf is he installing windows for?
You can get a USB sound adapter; I think there's a way to get those working under DOS but don't quote me...
Doubt many of them are adlib/soundblaster compatible. You could try an USB2LPT adapter and use a covox (there are "emulators" and doom ports which support those)
@@1337Shockwav3 Ooh yeah, that might work. Lots of overhead but a 300mhz CPU should be able to do the heavy lifting if the bus has the same freq. and it isn't just a standard.
@@1337Shockwav3 The Covox Speech Thing won't be usable with a USB2LPT adapter (at least not without modifications). It would probably be easier to write a USB stack with audio for DOS. Or throw together a lightweight Linux distribution, then USB sound support will be trivial.
"You can get a USB sound adapter; I think there's a way to get those working under DOS" I quoted you. :)
My order for your restaurant is...
RIP AND TEAR
🤣
Until it's done
*IDDQD*
Doom is ETERNAL
Until it is _well done_ !
SeaBIOS has no real configuration screen. You configure it on compile time. There is some option to change boot order though, but has to be compiled in.
Is there a way to recompile SeaBIOS without losing the old configurations? Essentially recompiling SeaBIOS just to change the boot order.
@@thepuzzlemaster64 just use an hex editor and change it, its not easy but you can have a pretty good idea of where to find if it was compiled from some open source base
Luiz Felipe
So uhh...I have this situation where I bought a laptop pre-modded with CoreBoot + SeaBIOS (works well, but could be better). How does one dump the BIOS without these special tools and replace it without potentially "bricking" the laptop?
I think I might need to spend some time looking at the SeaBIOS and CoreBoot manuals just to get an idea of what I'm in for if I decide to do this...
@@thepuzzlemaster64 Dumping a ROM depends more on your laptop hardware than on the BIOS.
Usually you have to use a eprom programmer made for that specific machine.
But if you know electronics you can try interfacing it with a RPI or an Arduino, iow, you make a eprom programmer.
You can't brick it if you have an eprom programmer. It's the lowest level possible.
Unless we are talking about fuses in microcontrollers, but that's a PC.
You went a lot farther with this than I thought you would.
He went too far... he could've just removed the chip that had the original OS on it and the system would've defaulted to booting form the SD Card. Either that or just run it rom USB... which he ended up doing when it was all said and done anyway (the SD Card would've been better).
@@80s_Gamr I think he just got hyper focused on getting it to work the way he thought it would. I've done that on personal projects countless times.
That's what she said
@@gumbyx84 Right on... been there myself, lol.
I am so surprised you didn't try ME. It might have solved the PnP issue since it's 98 SE under the hood with a lot more updates. Also, could have tried Windows 2000 as well 😊 Awesome video nonetheless!
Can I try you? 😏
@@IbbiAhmed 🤣
*shudders* do not utter the os that shall not be named again.
@@h3yw00d Hehe. ME wasn't actually that bad for me. I think it all depended on the hardware. I have very fond memories of ME. Was playing Half-Life and Max Payne religiously. I remember formatting a few times for weird issues but for the most part it was fine. My friends computer at the time was horrible on ME though.
yeah, ME wasn't bad and had great hardware Support. used it a lot before XP
Can it run Planet X-3?
What an amazing product. Someone made a Mini Dos gaming PC based on this DM&P chip but it's a build your own device so you can essentially get a mini modern dos PC. I'm planning on doing that.
Therasteri is the Channel who made a opensource mini-dos PC.
You could have tried a lightweight distro of Linux. I know it wouldn't have been able to run the PC version of Doom but would have potentially given you a fully functional installation with no missing drivers.
you can run doom on linux, in dosbox, or with linuxdoom port from id, or with any other pirt there is.
or just bricked it some more lol.
One time at Starbucks, one of these stopped showing orders and became interested as I had trouble finding information about them for troubleshooting. So glad for this new information! Very Cool!
Waitress: What can I get you this evening sir?
Me: IDKFA
Fine! It can run Doom. Checked!
Next on the list: can it run Quake? 😜
Seller: This is the world leading kitchen appliance computer, it's revolutionised kitchen work and effectivised workplaces around the globe.
Buy: Yeah, sure. But can it run Crysis?
Seller: I'm sorry, what?
Buyer: CAN. IT. RUN. CRYSIS? If not, its not worth my time, I saw another model that at least can run Doom.
Seller: I.. I don't know how to respond to that..
Uh... I actually think it might, depending on VESA modes and stuff. I wouldn't mind seeing some benchmarks, too.
300-MHz Pentium-ish? It should be able to handle Quake nicely. I won't place bets on GLQuake, though. Hardware acceleration is a dubious proposition.
It should also be able to handle Duke Nukem 3D and Dark Forces. No reason Id should have all the fun.
Now if we could get it to run Morrowind then the employees could claim: I would have fixed your order but I took an arrow to the knee! If you need some assistance one of our staff seems to always carry a leek with them.
lame... duke nuke em for the win
I’m surprised to not see as many comments as I would have expected about the mysterious BANANA.
When you setup the CD driver in DOS, you give it a name. Since that device doesn't have a CD-ROM it's going to fail to load the driver. So that's what that error is. I'm guessing he used a DOS boot disk he found online.
@@dummptyhummpty I think BANANA was the default for the 98 boot disk - 95 generally named it TOMATO instead. Don't ask me why.
@@aprilkolwey4779 I never knew that!
@@aprilkolwey4779 Really? Wow.
i guess the person who made it likes the minons XD
The boot order is almost certainly set up that way so a tech can boot diagnostic or recovery software off a USB stick without having to mess around with a keyboard. I bet there are USB sticks that will do a clean install of a new OS and POS software in case the internal storage gets corrupted.
I also wouldn't be surprised if the deleted USB port was spec'd by the original customer, possibly to stop employees from using it to charge their phones.
Exactly. And the boot order also makes sense concerning the SD card, as the internal flash has higher priority. If it’s not present or not bootable, the SD card may take its place. SeaBIOS configuration works through a separate application that would usually be in the boot device menu, but appears not to be installed. In this version, it might also be hardcoded.
Just hook up an arduino or something and copy off the contents of the SPI before you mess around with it so you can always recover it.
As someone in the process of re-skilling into tech from the kitchen life, this brought me immense gratification and satisfaction.
And then at 10:45 you just brought it to the full revolution level. If I can go into one of my old kitchens, plug my phone into their bump bar, and start playing Doom on their order screen, I will have become my own hero.
Writing to that flash chip is probably easier than you think it is. Get a TL866 programmer and a SOIC-8/SOP-8 test clip, and you can literally clip it directly to the chip and read/write it from a PC. That exact chip you showed at 9:23 is compatible with it.
EDIT: Actually, I paused it at the part where you showed the chip to write this comment, and hadn't watched past it. I guess you already know it's even easier than that, since the virtual floppy drive is writable from software and you can boot from removable media.
I haven't looked at the specific details of this device but I would guess the SPI flash also contains the system firmware (coreboot and SeaBIOS). This writing a disk image directly to it would brick the device.
But that makes me think, since it runs coreboot it should be possible to make a custom BIOS, maybe even one which presents the internal keypad as a PS/2 keyboard using SMM.
You continue to impress, Colin! Thanks for great work for us to enjoy,
TheRasteri has a video where he made a mini DOS machine using a PC/104 industrial PC board. The nice thing is it has a slot to accept the homespun sound card he build for it. The PC/104 board he'd selected uses a similar Vortex CPU.
You know I love crazy stuff like this. Brings a smile to my face
Back when slackware linux first came out, the doom demo was always available to install, so it doesn't use that much memory, granted if you had a soundcard and the creatives were just coming out it had better sound, but brings back memories
I was thinking while watching this, especially at the end, Linux would be fun to put on it, and if you *do* use Linux, you could use a cheap USB Sound device to get that going too. Full doom experience, Just bring a USB Hub.
While most of the technical discussion was above me, I really enjoyed this video. Kudos for getting Doom to run.
As for the lack of a sound card, I had my first PC for several years before I bought a used AdLib card, so I was well used to PC speaker sounds.
hold up? if you can wright to that Virtual Floppy? cant you just format it and make it bootable with DOS 6.22?
This was a great watch! Thank you for your dedication!
Got this video recommended over a video from the 8-bit Guy. Thoroughly enjoyed it, thank you! 😊
Just saw this video and glad I did! Regarding the OS, it looks like one of those stripped down with very superficial modifications to MS-DOS that contains just a few changes to text and a few routines to make the DOS experience a bit more interesting. I distinctly remember that upgraded and coloured DIR function being applied to DOS 5.0 PCs among the techie crowd in the early 90s along with VESA framebuffers to enhance game performance and advanced memory managers that could be simply added to the autoexec.bat and/or command.com config files.
I actually did something very similar to my Amiga workbench before jumping to PCs when I was a teenager, making a custom workbench I called 'RatBench' that stripped out all unnecessary processes to allow more free RAM and room on the floppy disc to add pirating and wardialing software, a 'greets' listing on bootup and added a randomized copper list to give a multicoloured background to the Amiga's GUI years before Windows 3.0 did the same (and more) for PCs.
I distributed this among friends and fellow geeks, and was amazed to find it floating around still years after the Amiga was dead in North America. I wonder how this guy who gussied up MS-DOS would feel if he saw this video? Since someone either jacked this version of DOS out of the black holes of DOS piracy or possibly actually licenced it for this Point of Sale terminal programmer, his response could go either way. ;-)
Make a floppy image of the other unit , bring it to your unit and restore. That's what I'd do :)
I used to work at a pizza place that used the "Bump" and "Recall" version of the bar you showed a pic of. While we had Dell PCs running Win7 w/ touch screens to take orders, I had always assumed the bump bars we had on the make table and cut table were just "dumb terminals" that depended on the server in the office for all functions(especially since the bars would reboot any time the server went down). I knew that the bars had a basic bios since it would show that when the server rebooted or when you bumped the bar too aggressively(because the port where the power supply plugged in was looser than a $5 hooker), but I had no idea it had an actual CPU inside. Interesting video!
Considering that device has a rough equivalent to a Pentium 200mhz you should be able to run Quake on it without too much trouble. Doom ran quite well on most 486 based PC's (and decent on a fast 386 based system!) back in the day so anything with a Pentium or faster chip should easily run it like a champ!
Seeing Compris brought me back to my NCR helpdesk days. Didn't really like the job but it more than paid for rent, college, car mods, and put food on the table.
Managed to track down a zip file with the x-dos 5 files (Website was pcorner so others can track it down to).
Wasn't a bootable floppy image though, but it was a zip file that could be used. I inserted the folder inside a drive image in a virtual machine. Ran the install command, and this allowed me to install x-dos to a floppy image. Now i got the full thing, funky colors included. Then i used a image file editor to replace the files on the floppy with the ones from the zip file and boom! Official working install floppy :D
Now i can very easily install this in my virtual PC's, although it seems extremely picky with harddrive booting and i have only gotten it to work with floppy disks so far with harddisk access flatout failing. Perhaps this doesn't support large disks?
There's also some ISO containing X-DOS 5.2: archive.org/details/ipadDOS
You have it right about the use case for the bump bar. Those orders are timed and recorded on the back of house server for analytics later to determine any bottlenecks in the kitchen. so making an order and clearing it in time is important.
OMG I asked for this in a comment in your last video! Can't believe you ACTUALLY did it. Thank you!
Bro, I always get excited when I see your videos
I bet that could run Alpine Linux, or even Arch (btw).
Most modern 32-bit Linux distros require a 686 class computer to run though (Pentium II or higher), so it is likely that it does not work on a 586 chip. This is due to newer instructions.
old ubuntu or debian would boot flawlessly
@@milasudril That's assuming it's a plain 586 chip without any newer instructions, which I doubt given this has PCIe and other surprisingly modern creature comforts. Even if it is you'd just have to boot an older distro.
I would advise antiX-Linux since it’s one of the smallest distros (does not use systemd).
@@owowowdhxbxgakwlcybwxsimcwx Debian 8 Jessie (released 2015) should work fine on an ordinary Pentium, you just need to choose the correct kernel on startup. It will automatically default to the 686 kernel which needs CMOV.
Arch has always required a 686 at minimum and 32 bit support was dropped as an official Arch platform a few years ago. You'd need to use the community i686 port, but obviously that will only work if this CPU has 686 functions like CMOV and probably also PAE.
We used these when I worked at a Pizza Hut years ago. We had Bump/Recall units at the make-table and a different unit on the cut-table that had options to scroll one-by-one or page-by-page.
I'm waiting for Foone to find that out, they'll be proud 😆
I'm eagerly awaiting an update for this. I just have to see more!
If the thing has parallel like it does serial, could you wire an OPL2LPT?
It doesn't unfortunately.
@@und4287 darn
WIndows found 2 com ports?
So does that mean you can hook 2 of these together and do a serial link?
if the device has post and bios, it runs doom.
yes a calculator has bios
There's already Doom ports for the Ti graphing calculators. I have one installed on my Nspire from college.
I like how he said he wont be installing custom windows in the previous video and then...Doom challenge; you have a new subscriber, nothing makes my day like watching another device being Doomed!
Nice! But I'm surprised you didn't try any kind of Linux. We all know that Linux can run on anything.
I've installed win98 on a Grocery register from the mid 80' It had a custom 100 button keyboard with pictures of produce, which had its own cutom ISA board to register keypresses, it was a 286 PC internally and it was somewhat funky to run games on it!
Did you try plugging in a mouse in the KBD PS2 connector? On some singleboard computers from that period a custom pinout was used to allow both KBD and mouse to be plugged in simultaniously through a PS2 Y cable that you plugged both keyboard and mouse into.
Win98 drivers for strange hardware is often solvable by looking up the chips, figuring out what else they were used in at the time that hopefully has win98 drivers. The Pleo robot dinosauer toy had a wierd serial connection internally that took AT commands, so I found an USB modem driver, which just worked with a common USB to rs232 adaptor. So like that trying different things on a hunch is often successful. To that Win98 drivers are simple, so sometimes you can swap .dll files from one driver to another to hack together something workable.
You should be able to mount the flash drive as direct access in virtual box and install from your XP ISO with slip streamed drivers. Or just install standard XP and install the drivers in virtual box and it should boot. I’ve messed around with a lot of these weird SOCs and that method seems to always work
This is the content I wake up for in the morning.
@9:00 I seem to remember some older computers used to have bios that ran off a drive or floppy, maybe there is a bios that can be ran like an OS that will change hardware settings?
Nicely done. Now, an idea for part 2... it would be really funny to play Duke Nukem level "Duke Burger" on the hardware that belongs in a restaurant kitchen. :)
Some xp embedded drivers are on dmps' old website hasnt been updated for a long time tho
Try booting an older Linux kernel with Loadlin!
Hi @This Does Not Compute, another great video, thank you. You mentioned that you would the links to the tools you used, did you forget or are they no longer in the description?
If it has a cpu
It has to run doom
📠
"So you're running off a USB drive."
"Yes."
"So can you use this USB mouse?"
"No, because there are no USB ports."
"But you just said you're running off of an-"
"No I didn't."
"Yes you did."
"No."
23:00 if you want to see doom and avoid the long winded introduction
I'm proud to say that when you highlighted Starbuck, my mind went to BSG
...the original series
40 bucks? Looks affor....*looks at postage to Germany* 41frigging Dollars to get this over here?!? No thanks. :(
I enjoyed the blathering, I'm in the UK so not seen these before, but intrigued yes, great video.
When the recipe requires 2 cups of demon blood and 7 pints of kick-ass music
"Is that order ready yet?"
"Err.. coming right up"
Pew pew pew!
so what's next? running Crysis on your family toaster?(please please please)
great video as always :)
8 thumbs(on a cyber demon's necklace) up
Love this idea, I clean kitchen hoods and exhaust systems for a living, would be great to play some doom at work.
Yes, the bump bar. I used to do IT gig work, and was surprised to see it boot up DOS
From one geek to another I love stuff like this!
Most definitely My Hat Off to this one!! The restaurant chef systam can run Win98 and play Doom!!
Well you have single handedly increased the resale value of those things.
have you used an external soundcard like the Creative Labs USB Sound Blaster MP3+ External Sound Card Sound System,
There's actually an ISA port on the chip.
That would make the 86duino SoM an ideal basis for some retro project.
I was wondering just about it. Well, Colin, you are awesome!
Is auto code execution possible? And given that a single unit has the apps for different companies I wonder if with automatic code execution if we this could be used in any meaningful way in the field. Wish I had the time and funds to play with this.
What would be interesting if the A drive flash chip was removed from the pcb would it then boot from the second device (SD card)?
The wear on the 1 button gave me flashbacks, I started working in a Wendy's about 2 months after it opened so everything was brand new. By year 3 almost all of the 1 buttons were worn off just because of how much more you tend to hit it.
Would guess that it boots from USB first because updates would be shipped on USB flash drives (or maybe downloaded with instructions to put it on a USB drive). I designed an embedded system at work and I used this exact same methodology - default to boot from USB, and the "OS" on the USB would simply contain all the software and data needed to update the internal storage. That autoexec boot script also would cover any post-update cleanup/conf rework/etc. that might need to be done.
It also explains why the USB port was exposed on later revisions.
The SD card slot would likely exist for add-on software or extra storage for specific configurations.
I grew up with these Doom pc speaker sounds, super nostalgic for me
This was great. 10/10.
Also if you look very carefully at the DMP website, you'll find in their archive a programming reference that shows how to access the GPIO from DOS. Of course somebody would have to know C or assembly, but the example looks pretty simple. There might even be a utility in there (can't remember). Somebody could then use FASM to make a TSR that converts those into keystrokes. That part I don't know how to do, but it's possible.
I’m wondering if there’s a way to use a USB sound card to make it have sound. I’m assuming if you got one that’s sound blaster or adlib compatible that a standard driver would work.
Running doom trough external means: Successful
Running doom without external equipment: the following needs to be done
1. create a backup of the original DOS
2. check how much space is on the on-board flash
3. see how the membrane is controlled
4. see if it is possible to flash a new bios
5. backup the original BIOS.
6. test new BIOS
7. check if a DUAL boot Dos system is possible.
7.1 if dual boot DOS is not possible, test if a new dos version/ reverse engineered X-DOS can both run doom and the POS system
8. reverse engineer X-DOS for hidden features.
9. Play doom without extra Keyboard/tools of the original flash storage
These were over the fryer at a huddle house I worked at many years ago, used as nothing more than a timer.
There is actually a pc speaker driver that on my 1996 era Toshiba laptop which didnot have a sound card, *did* in fact provide music support for Win 95 and worked for Doom.And, there was a Linux kernel driver for pc speaker support that worked well as well. In that it was better than nothing type of *worked well*
This was a real cliffhanger..😮