Jim Cornette on CM Punk's Comments About Bret Hart
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- Опубліковано 25 сер 2024
- From Episode 234 of Jim Cornette's Drive Thru
Artwork by Travis Heckel!
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Whether it’s CM Punk, The Rock, or anyone else. The amount of love that Bret Hart receives from the guys he impacted positively is heartwarming to see. Team Bret forever.
Bret is just iconic... Never liked Shawn after he became world champion, never thought he deserved the title
@@EddieTheGentleman What's not to like about HBKs second run? Seriously?
@@desisdosis473 His second run was fine.
He disgraced pretty much every other run he had.
Which is pathetic
@@desisdosis473 HBK is the GOAT. At the very least top 3 in history, wrestling wise.
Best there is, best there was, best there ever will be.
Nash’s best match; Bret Hart
Stone Cold’s best match; Bret Hart
Waltman’s best match; Bret Hart
The list goes on and on. Bret’s storytelling is absolutely TIMELESS.
even shawn's best match - Bret Hart till Taker/HBK WM 25.and it is still debatable.
@@naveed1986 even someone like Curt Hennig had his best matches with Bret, and Curt was a legitimate world class in-ring worker who wrestled all the biggest names in the business for 3 generations.
Roddy Piper had probably the second best match of his entire career with Bret at Mania (definitely a top 5 of Piper’s career if not top 3, with the Dog Collar Match against Valentine being my pick for his best match ever).
He dragged an intoxicated and unprepared Davy Boy Smith to an all time classic match and probably the greatest Sumer Slam match ever.
It’s such a shame Bret was hamstrung by roster deficiencies in WWF and then by creative and booking incompetence in WCW. If I were running WCW in 1998 I would have split the brands to have Thunder and Nitro to feature completely different wrestlers, storylines and philosophy. I would have put Bret Hart on top of Thunder with a roster of great in ring workers to highlight the old school rasslin style that so many of the long time WCW fans desperately wanted. I also would have been using Bret as my main draw on more frequent tours of Europe because of what a big draw he was there. Could have had Bret as the Thunder top champion and then Benoit with the secondary title and the European crowds would have eaten it up. Especially if you gave Thunder the cruiserweights, Malenko, Guerrero, Mistero, etc. would have gotten over well in Europe as well. But that’s just a dream…
Thor-Orion - agree 100% and with the sentiments expressed in this video. I was lucky enough to see the rock and Steve Austin break out and some of the pre-attitude era. Still for me in terms of match quality Bret is right up there. His psychology and story telling exemplifies everything that’s missing from some parts of the business now. The best, there is, was and ever will be 👍
Nash said he never had a bad match with Bret. He even had really good matches with mid card guys when he wasnt doing mains. Demolition often said they loved working with the Hart Foundation. Bees, Rockers, Rougeaus all had great matches with the Harts. Brets stuff still holds up today. And for those who say Bret does the same moves in the same order, so do a lot of other guys. Watch any Randy Orton match. Watch any HBK match before he retired.
@@naveed1986hbk's best matches were against undertake and Kurt angle you fool
Bret's best match was against hbk
"I was recognized as being an artist and a storyteller. If Hulk Hogan was the Elvis of wrestling, I was the Robert De Niro." - Bret Hart
These are the kinda statements that get Bret and Punk mocked, but it is why they are so believable. It also explains the tension between Triple H and Punk. Same old philosophies odd.
One of the dumbest Bret mark outs for himself. Bret is the world's biggest mark....for himself.
He's right.. both not a bad comparison actually.. I like both Elvis Presley and Robert De Niro.. just as I like Hulk Hogan and Love Bret Hart..
@@yoholmes273 Bret has given huge credit on countless occasions to guys he worked with. The ones who complain about Bret being a mark for himself are also the guys who throw hissy fits when they're not the first ones to be introduced to crowds at conventions *cough scotthall cough cough*
Robert De Niro can't act. Basically all he can do is "act" like mobsters and he does that poorly.
Bret Hart made you believe it. When he came to Mumbai, I was heartbroken I couldn't go meet him as a kid because I lived so far away from that city. His seriousness towards his work was so beautiful to see.
It would be amazing if a promotion existed that took every segment as seriously as Hart did. We all know wrestling is a work; but when the talent takes it serious and treats it as such it helps suspend the disbelief so much. The CM Punk and MJF segments are proof of that. If only AEW wanted to be a professional wrestling show and not WWF, they'd be getting more and more casuals.
@@ashtonhaggitt216 very eloquently put. I haven't watched pro-wrestling properly since the reign of terror, and have definitely no plans of watching AEW, mostly because to reach the good parts, one probably has to go through so much of bad gymnastics. But man would it be good if people took themselves seriously.
When did he come to india?
And almost absolutely no one currently even puts in an effort to make you believe.
@@ashtonhaggitt216 they wouldn't be casual fans, but more hardcore fans.
Bret would put his sunglasses on some kids head in the crowd before his matches sometimes. I always wanted to be that kid 😄
Same
Me too!
Was gonna say, we all wanted to be that kid!!! 👍🏻
Same.
Love Bret Hart glad he's getting his flowers from the more serious modern day performers like FTR, Punk and Danielson.
Danielson was trained by hbk so he's a shawn guy but yeah I agree with ftr and punk.
@@willjohnboy actually he was trained by someone else in Shawn Michaels school but that's just the stock story WWE goes by.
@@louie8425 Yeah and plus Danielson's biggest influence is Regal who's very much in the Bret Hart mold of wrestling.
This is the best thing Brian Last has ever said. It’s the generations of wrestling that has derived from Hart that shows how great he was. Just further proves his catchphrase.
It's the difference between the cleverness behind the storytelling of Punk V. MJF and the gymnastics routines that we get with the Bucks and whoever they're fighting.
@@hughsnipes8019 Anyone who thoroughly enjoys a match involved with the Hardly Boyz or thinks what they do is wrestling is wired backwards basically
People like Bret and Rock are what I miss most about wrestling. They lived their character, they didn't get pushed to the top, they were just so good they made it to the top. Sold everything, got the fans behind them, and whenever they spoke you listened.
Hate what wrestling has become
I would add Steve Austin to that list but then it was Bret who wanted him and made him,the feud they had was epic and you really thought they hated each other while actually being good friends.
I think Steve learned a lot from that feud which would make him a star.
@@dantheman9228 Too bad Bret never once put Austin over. Which Shawn did
@@SpaceGhost92 Are you serious he did a double turn with Austin,you do not have to win to put someone over you know.
Unlike Shawn who buried other wrestlers and only put Austin over because Taker was going to beat the piss out of him if he did not.
@@SpaceGhost92 Bret has said multiple times he would have loved to have done that for Austin.
@@gameshack1985Austin was actually one if Harts top choices to drop the title to on his way out.
If you go watch Bret Hart's matches in the early 90's WWF, his work stands out among all the goofy gimmicks because it's timeless and holds up in any era.
Exactly. I can watch a Bret Hart match now and it still holds up
Watching him work in his prime was truly a pleasure. I watched him have classics with Mr. Perfect, Owen Hart, Bob Backlund, 1-2-3 Kid/X-Pac, even Shawn Michaels and Kevin Nash. He just didn’t have any bad matches. He was amazing at what he did.
Bret Hart IS wrestling. He was raised in it, he embodied it, and he damn near perfected it.
A lot of ex wrestlers F'ed up their life (and the lives of others) in one way or another. Drug abusers, early deaths, far too much tragedy all round than should be reasonably expected in any walk of life. So when the worst thing they can say about you is that you took too much pride in your passion, in your life's work... well, that alone speaks volumes about who Bret Hart is as a man.
@dnn86 I often wonder how if Dynamite Kid had his demons under control, and was still in the WWF, the potential Intercontinental Title matches him and Bret could've had!!!
Excellently executed comment sir!
In the words of bane:
Bret hart was born in pro wrestling. Molded by it
Totally agree!👍💝
I honestly don’t know if I’d rather have seen Bret Hart vs Kurt Angle, or Bret Hart vs Eddie Guerrero.
Imagine these 2 matches at any Wrestlemania:
Bret Hart vs Kurt Angle
Shawn Michaels vs Eddie Guerrero
@@aarnethn stone cold vs Brock and rock vs macho man. Undertaker vs sting. Nwo hogan vs cena
@@pleaseshutup7053 That's awesome dream matches there. I guess that I need to buy the 2k22 game and setup these matchups lol🤣
Or even a newer guy Daniel Bryant (not sure spelling think he is American Dragon now AEW)
Ot Pete Dunn
Bunch of talent now that can really get it done, way more to choose from then back then,
Love to see Bret vs Malikai Black
Eddie Guerrero vs Bret feud would have been amazing just based on skill level, knowledge, and family legacy alone.
I know Bret and Fit Finley had a match in wcw, but a longer feud between those 2 guys could have been amazing. Bret would have raised Finley's status in WCW by feuding with him at that time, and their stiff styles would have made for some very realistic looking matches. Both second generation guys with Father's who ran promotions, the story line would have built itself. Finley later became a star under Vince, but a feud with Bret would have made him a star a lot earlier while still in WCW. They would have stole the show every PPV and made Hogan, Goldberg, and Nash matches look like amateur hour.
Both Bret Hart and CM Punk were always right
Not always. In some aspects yes.
I wouldn’t say always that’s forsure
Bret is easily the best wrestler ever from a storytelling perspective. The level of thought and detail Bret put into his matches and the nuances are unmatched. Only Foley and Misawa come close.
Arguably the best technical wrestler along with Angle and Benoit, in my opinion
@@EliC09 Danielson has to be on there
Sorry, but no. Brett was probably the best during his era as well as what I consider "modern wrestling" dating back to the 1980 or so, but he doesn't hold a candle to the most of the guys who made wrestling a major entertainment industry back in the 40s, 50s, and 60s. But then, he did learn how to do it from those guys... whereas many of the major stars of the 80s-2000s tended to ignore them more than heed their advice and teachings. Go watch some of the matches between Rikidozan and Lou Thesz, Vern Gagne and Hans Schmidt, Antonino Rocca and Killer Kowalski, Gorgeous George and Billy Watson if you want an in-depth lesson on in-ring storytelling.
All of that said, Hart ranks just above the likes of Lawler, Funk, Steamboat, Dusty, Flair, Misawa, and Choshu in terms of guys who had their peaks in the 80s or 90s.
@@epifaniogaming7006 Danielson is by far the best over the past decade plus. I'd probably put him somewhere in the top 50 of all time, if not top 30.
@unlitedsoul you really think so? As far as slow paced matches with great story telling? You have any specific matches from 40s 50s 60s? I’m interested
I grew up with Bret and he's my number #1 wrestler ever. All he wanted to do was wrestle and perform for his fans.
Bret was in exceptional fitness and conditioning, even in ‘99. Look at his matches with Booker T, the last one he wrested with a severe groin injury that was due for a surgery. Dude was getting out of arm locks using kip ups and functioning at Booker’s fast pace. Booker T has expressed gratitude for those matches and how excellently Bret put him over. This guy was a peak technician but could also do fast high flying moves at the calibre of people like Owen and Shawn, possibly even better than Shawn, paired with an ability to also function as a powerful wrestler as apparent from his matches with Undertaker, Vader, etc. The guy was an all-rounder and would’ve had great synergy with all-rounders like Kurt Angle just as he did with Benoit.
High flying better than Shawn? Lol that’s like me saying Shawn was a better technical wrestler than Bret.
@@ActiveRehabMobility yeah, UA-cam this one and you’ll realise how little you know about Bret’s moves. It’s totally not like you saying Shawn is a better technician, which we know is wrong. Yet I can pull up videos of Bret flying over ropes, over opponents, doing kip ups mid locks and in general, and quite smoothly. You could’ve looked this up before responding but I’ll try linking the video in the next comment.
I was always impressed with how he'd nonchalantly pick up a Diesel or Taker and give them a back breaker.
@@ActiveRehabMobility ua-cam.com/video/ejTAbP7oalg/v-deo.html
@@ActiveRehabMobility I tried posting a link to a clip, but it won’t hold due to how channels filter links out. Just do a search for “bret hart athletic moves” and the first few clips should have some great examples. Hell, even I just realised after watching one of them just how effortless Bret’s kip up was.
One thing that Bret was really good at is he would have matches where he lost but somehow came across a bigger star doing it and he would have matches where he won, like the matches with Austin, where he made the other guy look like a star. If you observe the Bret Hart WWF story from when he becomes a solo wrestler until Survivor Series 97 it is very coherent, with ups and downs, and is a great story arc for the Hitman character. He spends the last year as the bad guy but only in the eyes of the American fans and while being hated he re-unites with his estranged brother. He was hated only because he started complaining that the WWF was trying to screw him but in the end he was RIGHT! That last part was an accident but the story could not have flowed more perfectly. Bret taking things seriously was why he could have multi-year storylines like feuding with Owen, only to eventually re-unite with him, or how he and Austin could switch between heel and face during a match and yet all of it was completely in character for both of them. Criticizing a wrestler for taking wrestling seriously is like criticizing a musician for writing a good song or an author for making sure his novel all fits together correctly. If wrestling is a creative art then you should make sure you're doing it well with a high attention for detail.
Can I tell you I was along with brother and dad at 'Golden ringside ' at wrestlemania 8 and I was like the only guy in my immediate vicinity rooting for Bret Hart against Roddy Piper. I was all about the real technical wrestlers and he was the best.
Dude. It goes down as the single most underrated match in mania history!!!!!! By far! What an absolute amazing story. I actually did a presentation in college on the storytelling of the match
@@mmabuff101 what was the class
and did you pass?
@@mmabuff101 dude you have to share that presentation!
Another one of his best matched is bret hart v Mr. Perfect at summerslam 91. Instant classic
My favourite match of all time.
I saw it as a tribute to Bret, but also a jab at Goldberg.
A clear jab at Goldberg
Yeah it was a clear jab at Goldberg
Goldberg was cooler than Bret
Agree. Bret hart is my favorite. And in his prime he can out wrestle anybody in there prime.
I’m Dominican 🇩🇴 and to me Bret hart was the best wrestler of all time!
Bret v Kurt would've been a great match
That long feud with Hart and Austin was the best feud ever imo. No one ever talks about it now, they just talk about Bret vs Shawn.
@@Orange6921 I agree, I wish it had been Bret v Austin at Survivor Series with Bret putting Austin over clean
What is "Out wrestle" in pro wrestling?
Bret has always been in a league of his own for me. The level of believability, his technical execution, storytelling skills even mic skills in 97 were incredible. It's sad he didn't have another 10 years with WWE what other classic matches would have been born from it. He has an unrivaled highlight reel with regard to classic matches and history. Great to hear CM echo all that.
What a tribute to Bret Hart, both legends
While at the same time dissing Goldberg?
@@SylentEcho a well deserved diss
@@SylentEcho Yep.
Love CM Punk in the ring, he is great. But get him on Twitter, and it's a different story.
@@Muhammadwasapedo Meh, don't care how someone is on twitter. Only how they are to my face.
Brian was right on the money here. I was always a Bret guy too and I’m glad that the pendulum has swung from “Bret is just bitter blah blah blah” to “if only more people had listened to Bret.” Same thing with Jim.
Bret has been through alot, he has a right to his opinions
Bret has the best back catalogue of quality matches out of everyone and its not even close. Some matches still hold up to this day
Almost all. Not "some".
Haven't always agreed with everything Bret says but I've mostly agree with him on his philosophy of wrestling. I really wished the Bret philosophy won out but it didn't.
The only thing I can say is that he's right about Seth Rollins and was KINDA right about Triple H (more like a 6/10).
Shawn won. Just like he did in 97.
To be honest the fans of Brett Hart are these soft left wing wrestlers who complain and do all kinds of nonsense so to hell with em hope Shawn Michaels actually did that to Dax hardwood
@@Neethan3247 What did he say about Seth Rollins?
@@KennyOmegasCavity hopefully nothing dumb. Rollins is arguably the best in ring performer right now.
Bret Is as respectable guy as It gets In wrestling
He was a great role model for the kids, he was cool, he could wrestle, he was serious
Imagine If Goldberg didn't give him a concussion, WCW would probably continue to book him badly before he left to go wrestle on the Indies teaching young guys before resurfacing In WWE for an actual match against shawn michaels, shawn was Incredible In 05 and those two are In the same era
Long Live Bret "The Hitman" Hart! A true living legend and icon of Professional Wrestling.
Damn if Brett went to smackdown right after the WCW buy and the first brand split in 2002/2003. Brett vs angle, lesnar, eddie, benoit, mysterio. Sheesh
After Bret's neck injury in 1999, he didn't stop, he continued to work with WCW in 2000, he didn't do what edge has done in his life. Look at edge now, he is smart man.
To this day Brett Hart is still my favorite wrestler. When I was a child and getting quite bored with Hulk Hogan Hawking up and having the same ending to his matches time after time I grew quite fond of the man dressed in pink and black having these matches that were very believable. It’s a damn shame his career got short because even in his 60s with his style he could still be having matches to this day and having great quality matches. We could’ve had Bret Hart versus guys the likes of angle, punk, Daniel Bryan, Orton, styles. The list goes on!
Bret's my boy. He really was the real deal and in most cases, is right with most of what he says. The problem with today's wrestling is that NO ONE TAKES it seriously anymore.
I HATE when ppl like HHH says “he takes himself too seriously” and I’m like that’s the problem!
@@thesupervisor3270 Triple H and Razor Ramon both said the same thing.. I like Razor but he is wrong about that too..
not true at all… you don’t think punk takes it seriously? did you not listen the video that you’re commenting on?
@Life At The Goutpost The Young Bucks need to be Managers.. They can cut a great promo and would be awesome managing a wrestler who has everything except a mouthpiece..
@@kenrickeason they’re amazing tag team wrestlers who can still go… They just can’t break them up, they’d be too weak by themselves
Wrestlemania 9, 1993...
The Main Event vs. Yokozuna...
I was only 12 years old and had no idea about the art of wrestling. But this match was something special for me. It was different from the rest of the show. It was David versus Goliath and it flashed me.
Today I know who most likely planned it that way.
Thank you Bret for all the great memories and greetings from Germany.
Also, because of the grudge between Bret and Vince, Bret disappeared from WWE television for nearly a decade. His name and his legend were not kept alive by WWE during that time period, and it really hurt his legacy in the long run. Many younger fans know that HBK was a "legend," because the WWE machine told them so over and over again. But because Bret did not receive the same treatment, those same fans probably know next to nothing about him.
Exactly, like Jim said Bret’s matches aged better overall. Vince really did screw Bret
This is another reason why Bret will always be in Shawn Michaels shadow. While Bret was put to pasture, Shawn was putting on classics with everyone.
@@wrestleland5473 That’s debatable, he had good matches but not all of them were great and like VultureLivesAgain said HBK was oversold for years after Bret retired. In my opinion dude is a POS and wasn’t anywhere as great as Vince portrayed him.
Oh they kept it alive. Just not in the way you wanted it to.
@@wrestleland5473 I disagree. Bret put on tons of classic matches all over the World, and was the face of Canada for Pro Wrestling. I agree Vince and the WWE didn’t do Bret any favors, but Bret was a mega star years before Michaels. Michaels didn’t break away on his own until 1991-1992 and Bret was being put over by Rowdy Piper at Wrestlemania for the IC title. When Hogan left WWF in 1993, and later showed up in WCW. Bret was moved to the top spot, face of WWF, and eventually Shawn caught up to Bret. Their feuds were epic. Bret more less said screw WWF and went to WCW, which then Shawn and HHH became the focal point of WWF turned WWE to compete with WCW NWO. Bret’s run wasn’t great in WCW, because he wasn’t used very well, and his career ended at the foot of Goldberg. Yes; Shawn took off, BUT once WCW folded, and all those big stars came back to WWE with no place else to work. Shawn had some great matches but was forced to share the titles and spotlight with Hogan, Rock, HHH, ManKind, Taker, and many others. Unfortunately Brett was out of the game due to injury, but you can’t argue Bret had a massive run as WWF champion before Michaels. The Hart Foundation was super over, as well. IMO Bret had just as good of run as Michaels, but it came a few years earlier.
One of the most underrated elements of Bret's repetioire was his punches. If you go back and watch the way he threw those punches, it looks like he's absolutely hammering the other guy when, in reality, he was barely touching him. That's the element of realism he brought to his matches.
I'd say his punches looked more real than any other wrestler I've seen.
With all due respect, what the Cucka Manga kids do today is NOT Shawn Michaels style.
Shawn was never spamming superkicks and laughing about it. Shawn sold and sweat and had pacing in his matches.
Shawn Michaels being a pretentious prick aside I have to agree with this 100 percent. Shawn could and often did work many styles from mat to brawling , and everything in between. He never seemed to be emulating a professional wrestler like I see a lot today. The guy was one of the best like him or not.
As a fan who has been following pro wrestling off and on since the Inception of the AWA in 1961 if I had to pick one guy as the physical prototype for a professional wrestler it would be Bret Hart. He had it all!
Bret Hart was the reason why I love wrestling the first wrestling match I saw to become a fan was Bret Hart Vs Stone Cold Steve Austin WM 13 when I was 4 years old and I've become a fan of both legends
With Bryan Danielson and CM Punk in AEW I hope we get to see them feud again. Like Daniel Bryan said in is book. He saw him and CM Punk as the updated HBK vs Bret Hart.
Bret often talked about his philosophical differences in wrestling between himself and Shawn (and Flair too). The thing about Bret was he emphasized the realism for his matches. His stuff never was fancy but fundamentally sound and everything he did looked crisp. Shawn's matches weren't as believable because his offense felt light, he was mostly on defensive, bouncing around like Daffy Duck and had a lame looking kick to finish his opponents, even when they were 10x as big as him. I liked HBK on his first heel run but hated when he turned face; it felt forced and he played an insufferable prick better (probably because it wasn't too far off from his actual personality). When DX formed, it felt like a junior high school detention room where the teacher said fuck it and left. And you can see guys like the Bucks being heavily influenced from that period because they come off as smarmy just like HBK did in those days.
The reason HBK's character hasn't aged well is that while he performed great, people can go back and see how immature he was. I think even acknowledges that. On the other hand, because Bret maintained a dignified personality and tried to stick to his guns as a legit type of hero for Canada (and probably international fans too), he's got a bigger legacy that he can be proud of.
And here's the thing: what the WWE calls "entertainment" really is just bad comedy. Comedy never ages well because it centers around a particular moment and the punch line. Once people hear the punch line, there's no reason to hear it again. You got the joke. You move on because you know what happened. Emotion like a catharsis when an underdog beats a bigger, badder opponent, etc. is enduring. Tragedy especially is something people relate to well. And when you mix tales of emotion of tragedy or morality into wrestling, people can relate on a wider scale because those things last.
Taking the MJF feud with Punk as an example, we can see MJF as a tragic character. He's someone relatable in that his values were inverted as a result of being bullied to being let down by his hero. And he needs to seek violence because his values have become distorted as a result of his world being turned upside down. And Punk had to teach MJF a lesson as will Wardlow in his comment about karma. These are things normal people can relate to which is why this form of storytelling will have a bigger impact and be more memorable than the Bucks with Adam Cole playing a Christmas song in the background with a kazoo. I can't remember a damn thing about that promo but I won't forget MJF's comments about the quarters.
Shawn Micheals had no weaknesses, great character work and great on the mic.
Exactly well said I agree I couldn’t believe Sean beating a guy like diesel or undertaker he was just way too small he wasn’t believable at all! But just like flair hbk was great on the mic I give him that more than Bret
I wouldn't say Michaels was great on the mic but he was okay. He was so charismatic he didn't have to be more than just ok though.
HBK' "character" doesn't age well because it was a style and personality for a young man in his prime. That's why he seemingly toned down his antics during his 2nd run in WWE. He was also sober by his 2nd run which also helped.
You left out innovative for example figure 4 leg lock around the turnbuckle, the idea of the ladder match and beating HBK in the first one and his beautiful ring ring psychology💯👊🏾🔥🔥🔥
Bret vs Perfect at Summerslam 1991 was beautiful. And his Owen tribute match vs Benoit when WCW went to Kemper was great, too.
Man could you have imagined Brett Hart vs Kurt Angle in the early 00s? would have been sooo sick.
Smarks on part-timers iconic in the mainstream: "why can't these old guys just retire like they should've done 20 years ago?"
Smarks on retired smark darlings: "if only he could've wrestled 20 more years!"
My thoughts exactly
Brett was favorite wrestler for a long time. Technically and athletically one of the best and his pedigree could was unmatched. I still watch his moves list on UA-cam and you can see how rightfully earned the moniker 'the excellence of execution' is
As a 39 year old I grew up thinking bret was the best, then Shawn, then realized bret was actually the best. Bret hart is the time capsule professional wrestler.
Can you not just like and appreciate both? Both Bret and Shawn were tremendous in the ring. Bret was a stand up guy, Shawn was a shithead. Bret had very little personality and Shawn has bucket loads. I love em both. The idea you have to be in a camp of only one is pathetic.
It's not that we don't appreciate Shawn's style... It's that seemingly EVERYONE who goes out to the ring is doing a bad Shawn impression. Everybody is flying around. Everybody is goofing off and doing corny jokes. And most of those people aren't a fraction as good as Shawn was at it. We'd just like a little more variety, not in terms of "cool moves", in terms of style and and traditional wrestling storytelling. Everyone is trying to be Shawn or RVD and the endless tricks and hardcore spots are getting OLD...
@@gollumandeowyn Shawn Micheal's is like Dominic Hasek. Amazing goaltender, but those who try to imitate him just can't com close because most people will never have that talent.
If Hogan could go to Saudi Arabia, so could Bret if he was still in better physical health. Bret's been through a ton besides just aging.
I think the point isn't "can go" (physically), but more like "would go" (principles).
That's something we'll never know - unless WWE did ask Bret to do a special appearance at a Saudi Arabia Show and he rejected but they never disclosed it. (which is something fairly easy to tell because WWE never ever mentions any potential Bret Hart appearances unless they are 100% confirmed, unlike other things they often do that they then pull out of last minute).
@@zanon__ Literally the only people who refused to go to Saudi Arabia, was wrestling's two biggest numales, and only when the country had some controversy in the mainstream news that they were too scared to deal with because they know their fans are generally numales also. What 'principle' you expect people should boycott visiting that country over is anyone's guess. Islamophobia? Feminism?
Bret has no interest to work with wwe at the moment
@@zanon__ I'm pretty sure he would go because the people there, the fans, are not the ones responsible for the political decisions and deserve to see wrestling all the same.
@@goodday2760 what is a numale?
That is such a beautiful sentiment. When it comes to having one's head on straight in this business, CM Punk is the gold standard.
A guy who threw a temper tantrum despite being champion multiple times and over a year and decided to do ufc with no experience has his head on straight? Guy is controlled by his emotion
Bret was the last guy that took being the champ seriously.
And one of the lesser drawing
I think Shawn Michaels post injury was more like Bret than the original HBK
That whole post Revolution interview was fantastic. I never watch those things but that Dog Collar match was so impactful I was curious what Punk was gonna say about it. Really emotional and grounding video. Glad this part got covered on the podcast.
Don’t care what anyone says, can’t discredit his in-ring ability and mind for the art form that is pro wrestling. One of the greatest
Bret is amazing. I recall him looking out for the Rock and elevating Stone Cold before he left WWE.
I love how more and more people realize how right Bret was. How much he wanted to keep wrestling in a golden light and was always so disappointed with the downward spiral. #teamhitman Kevin Nash said something about needing to win a match, I saw a clip recently and Bret didn't agree or something and he said Undertaker intervened to tell Bret it wasn't always about him...anyone know any more about that? I don't know how true that is... I recall watching a Kevin Nash v. Hitman match...and halfway thru I thought...man if the hitman wasn't wrestling him. I wouldn't even be watching this boring a** wrestler. Bret literally elevates any match.
I ain't a CM Punk fan but I totally agree with him on Bret. The man had it all and is easily one of the best to ever do it💯💖👊🏾🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥
@Dax Dexico your not being disrespectful at all he just isn't my cuppa tea. His style of ring work doesn't look believable to me looks to slow and unathletic, Bret was hard hitting and safe all in one for me. But I ain't saying he is rubbish that would be a lie it's just my personal preference
The wholesomeness and respectfulness of this comment thread is something to be admired. Great talk, gentlemen.
@Dax Dexico I don't LOVE CM Punk, I don't hate him, but I definitely have problems with his past indiscretions towards the business. He openly called wrestling fake bullshit, mocked his former fans, said he'd never ever wrestle again and then came back because someone gave him a shitload of money (which I don't blame him for, but it doesn't make me like him much as a person if he can flip-flop on his supposed "morals" that easily. As a wrestler he's obviously very talented.
@Dax Dexico look after yourself brother💯👊🏾
@@luisrosario3781 this is how adults talk I guess. Peace and love to everybody💯💖👊🏾
Bret Hart's selling was like no other. When I was a kid I used think he was dead after that turnbuckle bump he used to do where he went into it front ways.
Me too! I would get so upset. I recall Isaac Yankem and Jerry Lawler (I think) attacking him in the ring. I thought Bret was seriously hurt and was upset that no one would come to help him.
no one sold the turnbuckle better than Bret
Bret was the reason I got into wrestling. I do love shawn as well. In ring both show a dynamic of wrestling which is why they work so well. Once shawn left and came back. That mature shawn was a serious guy.
But bret will always been the reason I love wrestling had his wcw figure in 99
I believe a lot of wrestling super stars had their best match with Bret. Roddy Piper, Steve Austin, British Bulldog … and I’m sure there are a lot more
Kevin Nash for sure as well.
Owen, Perfect?
Same goes for HBK: Scott Hall, Mick Foley, Shelton Benjamin, Sid, Undertaker, Y2J, Jeff Jarrett, Kurt Angle, Ken Shamrock etc he even made Great Khali look good.
@@billbird6494 i was about to say the wrestlemania classic.
X-Pac's best match was with Bret in my opinion
Brett doing that steel plate on his stomach moment in WCW against Goldberg was an amazing example of what creativity he could provide. How he was laying in the ring and things were slowly unfloding; nothing rushed or cheezy. The acting and storytelling in segments like this defined what professional wrestling meant to me. It's these details that appear lost in 2022.
I love this comment. Methodical, good selling, the boom. Working everyone and then giving the big payoff. Bret was just master level in planning out a match and then going out delivering like it was spontaneous and real.
CM Punk, Bret Hart, Eddie Guerrero, Stone Cold Steve Austin and Mick Foley. My Top 5 of all time (Taker, Angle and Edge as honourable mentions). I only got into William Regal last year.
I've never been a fan of The Hitman but I couldn't deny him if I wanted. Arguably the goat
I loved shawn and Bret...i liked hbk more overall but I most definitely appreciated bret for what he did and how great he was.
I respect Bret but I prefer Shawn.
tldr;
I never knew this when I was a kid, but Bret Hart played a legendary wrestler, the 'Hooded Fang', on jacob two two. The writers loved Hart so much, they made him an unstoppable monster like 2001 Kane but very friendly behind-the-scenes later in an episode. Its nice how his influence in canada got him such a endearing role, it wasnt embarrassing, the show's well written.
7:14 Fang's intro and 13:41 Jacob meets the guy behind the hood. Hart was a reoccurring character too. Oh, and 18:01 is an awesome Oh shit moment. Bret has an AWESOME character in the show. Sorry, I'm just being nostalgic. Excuse my long-winded comment but this show had great memories.
ua-cam.com/video/cx-M77EbkHo/v-deo.html
I'm just glad that no wrestler today looks back and say Triple H and HBK were the greatest of all time. Nor are their influence anywhere today. They'll die out, but Bret Hart's legacy and impact will live forever. He won in the end. Thank you, Punk.
It's a function of how dysfunctional WWE is. As the impact and quality of WWE program deteriorated by every passing day, the narrative pull they had on wrestling fans went away. It is without question, Vince made a lot of effort to obscure Bret's legacy. Right now, WWE and their narrative is at it's lowest point of relevancy
Hate to break it to ya but the flippy shit is prominent in modern wrestling. Which is credited to HBK.
Life is better when you have choices. Getting kicked in your head sure can limit those choices.
I think it's unfair and painfully simplistic to bog Shawn Michaels down to his worst traits in the 90s and say that that influenced all the geekiness we see now in wrestling. Compare Shawn's attitude and fundamentals to the people of today and he he seems like a drill sergeant.
Plus, his greatest body of work came in the 2000s when he had countless blood feuds that were as serious as anything Bret ever did. A literal decade of fantastic work in and outside the ring. Because Jim has virtually ignored the last 20 years of HBK, he's always attributing him from 97 to things today like it's the same person. And it isn't.
It’s so tiring listening to these two endlessly shit on Michaels while propping up Bret as this holier than thou saint. Regardless of the fact Jim prefers Bret as a person, Shawn is far and away a more complete wrestler than Bret. Jim acts like Shawn’s never bladed, like dude have you not seen those matches with Triple H? They were literal blood bathes.
@@SpaceGhost92 I think the point is that the flashier aspect of Shawn's style got carried over rather than the more in-depth storytelling. Shawn did both and was probably the better all-rounder of the two.
Bret kept things grounded in some level of realism. I love Sean Michaels as an athlete, and he helped change wrestling forever. However at the end of the day none of us would ever do backflips or constant dives off the ropes if we really were wrestling and in a legitimate fight. No, you'd try to fight like Bret and develop a strategy. That said I've give anything in Michael's disciples had a fraction of the logic he did, HBK at least was capable of more than just flips.
Sean Michaels kissed Vince's ass.
Of course Bret took the business seriously, he's a "Hart" it's in his blood 🩸Bret represents one of the all time Pro Wrestling families 💪
Bret is the best pro wrestling has ever had…as an in ring worker, as a performer, and more importantly as a man…Bret and Undertaker…the absolute best
It’s not just a slogan. He truly is “the best there is, the best there was, and the best there ever will be.”
Why do fans of Shawn Michaels and Bret Hart act like they can only praise one, and then shit on the other? You DO know you can like both wrestlers folks. It's like the stupid Playstation Vs XBOX argument. Both great systems.
Agreed. I appreciate both and always have done since I was a kid. Shawn is still my favourite, though.
@@hunterjg777 I respect Bret but prefer Shawn.
Xbox is absolutely not a great platform. It only exists because of Japonophobia.
@@Director2024 Fair enough
@@goodday2760 that makes no sense whatsoever, but whatever you say.
CM Punk wouldn’t be where he is today without WWE and he knows that. It’s eating him alive to know wwe made him a household name.
He was the king of independent wrestling long before he was in WWE
He'd be like Kenny Omega who also was massive without ever stepping foot in WWE
Cm Punk made himself in a household name, while in wwe. It's different.
True, MITB 2011 still the biggest moment of his career. Cena put him over big.
@@Blackhawk211 Being the King of independent wrestling is not saying much.
@@robin_opiniao If he did that in TNA nobody would care.
Amazing point on the Bret Inspired wrestler Vs HBK inspired. Never connected those dots, and now I can't unsee it.
Punk is the generational version of Bret Hart. He will still be talking about how he wants to stick it to WWE when he's 65. Unfortunately for him, WWE owns a lot of the footage of him in the most relevant moments of his career.
And just like Sting, that's why Punk will accept a WWE HOF & return.
To get access to his career you mentioned.
Best there is, Best there was, Best there ever will be, *Best in the world xxx*
Also the rock was a big fan and A tremendous amount of respect for Bret Hart! Stone cold respected Him also
Bret "The Hitman" Hart - The best there is, the best there was and the best there ever will be."
Cm punk was inspired by bret hart and that's why I liked both. They are alike. Punk was trying to bring story telling like bret hart style back and that's what Vince didn't like about punk and didn't support him. I don't understand how people or wrestlers can hate on punk when he was just trying to be another bret hart.
What is Brian talking about? The best version of Shawns character was when he was the biggest pric in 1997.
They do say the best gimmicks are an extension of the guy's personality....
I grew up in Alberta and Stampede was my first exposure to wrestling. I was actually all about Owen, Benoit, and the Bulldogs but you can't argue Bret was great and went on to have the most successful career. Shame how it ended. Hopefully he gets some satisfaction out of knowing he was influential and respected. It's not like he's penniless in an alley so maybe he lost out on money but he never seemed like he'd be the kind of guy where the money would be his biggest regret.
I was a Bret Hart guy and Punk guy now so great hearing him give those comments
Bret made you believe in the work with all emotion invested; he was versatile and efficient -- very contrary to the constant spot performer.
So happy that workers like Punk are back to help the younger generation, that is if they're willing to listen and learn.
You lose it when a guy like Bret leaves because a guy like him is the glue that holds the whole thing together.
I tell you, I watched a video yesterday of wrestlers preventing other wrestlers getting injured. So you can imagine, guys having to show clear cooperation to save each other. Then there's a Bret v Shawn match, Shawn dives onto Bret (who's standing on the floor) from the top, they then slow down the replay super slow and you see that Shawn has overshot the dive and is going to crash right into the barriers, Bret sees this while Shawns in midair and somehow all in one motion catches him, changes his trajectory and gets a brilliant bump out of it, he WAS the best.
I loved this conversation. Everything said was 💯 as always. I absolutely loved Bret Hart. I hope I get to meet him one day. I hate what happened to his career, but at least he is happy now.
Despite Bret's grudges his respect in the business cannot be denied
When I watched Bret he made me believe what was happening was 'real' ... and when you're a kid that stays with you. He was the brave, ultra cool, never-say-die smaller guy, who was quicker, smarter and just as tough as the bigger monsters.
Bret got emotionally screwed by a company he had broke his back for and then physically screwed by the company he went to for hope
I understand it's a business but goodness..and people have the audacity to call him bitter.
Bret Hart is the greatest ever. Much more love and respect to CM Punk for what he said. It was the truth. Bret Hart always tells the truth.
Brian is so off on Shawn. Bret was best technical wrestler but Shawn was the best performer. Kurt Angle was the perfect mix of both, that's the peak inring guy that you can ever have.
He lost me at the "non stop super kicks" comment. HBK used it as his finisher, it wasn't non stop and if anyone ever kicked out of it then it was a big deal. Non stop super kicks is what we see today, not when Shawn was about.
@@runnerbean6166 he means people were influenced by Shawn but they over exaggerate on his high spots like the super kick.
I agree with you completely. I said on another comment that I love both of them, so I can appreciate both styles of wrestling!
weren't most of Kurt angle's matches comprised of belly to back suplexes and ankle lock attempts? He always seemed like a newer version of Scott Steiner to me. I don't remember him being a great story teller like Bret or very free flowing like Shawn. He had great wit on the mic and played along with the fans saying you suck all the time, but never thought his matches where all that great, much like Cena.
Kurt had elements of both, but was inferior at the same time. His psychology, ring generalship, and ability to call and structure a great match with diverse opponents just wasn't at the same level.
Hell, even Akeem looked strong and legit when working with Bret !
If Bret were better on the mic cutting promos there would be no question about the greatest of all time.
Bret Hart took the business seriously because wrestling was his LIFE! It's all he knew growing up, all he was surrounded by, all he ever wanted to be. It is an absolute travesty that his career was cut short and so sad what happened to Owen. Then the kick from Goldberg that ended his career, then the stroke, then to lose Pillman, Davey Boy, Dynamite, Anvil, Stu, Helen etc. Bret's story is so triumphant and so tragic at the same time. And although I don't "hate" Shawn Michaels anymore, I do STILL find him to be overrated and more importantly unprofessional and disrespectful. Go watch his Summerslam match vs. Hogan. Say what you want about Hulk Hogan, but the way Shawn ruined that match by acting like a complete buffoon is unacceptable and Vince should've canned his ass after the event was over! Bret would've NEVER done that because he has respect for his opponents and the business.
CM Punk still does nothing for Me but Bret Hart was an Outstanding Wrestler …
Exactly !!! Plus he's a dick ! Used to work shows with him in roh and fip ....no talent I always thought.....besides that great guy ! Lol.
@@phildodson6141 He's a dick but a great guy?
You can be a great person but still not be a good person
@@AHP10 I was being sarcastic funny....didnt catch that i guess
Bret is the the greatest there ever was. The mount Rushmore of wrestling for me always will have Bret, CM Punk and Eddie Guerrero.
Do not need a 4th.
I was wearing my Bret tee earlier this week and a random UPS driver stopped and shook my hands and began telling me how much he missed Bret.
I think we can all admit that Bret sometimes was too serious for his own good ( stubbornness to say the least), but its WHY watching him wrestle was an absolute cinematic masterpiece. His story telling in matches were just as impactful , if not more than the promos leading up to the match. What Cornette talked about is spot on. You have amazing athletes now, who can do every move you can think of, but there is no story telling, moves that are considered 'finishers' are used 100x in one match. The impact has gone absolutely to shit. Heck even the referees cant count properly anymore lool. If you look at guys like hebner or mike chiaota , they would count methodically in relation to where they were in a match.
As a Bret guy from childhood until now, it always bothered me that Shawn got more praise from the new generation of wrestlers. Finally people starting to notice that Bret’s work holds up much better than Shawn, and Bret was a great leader in the locker room unlike that pill head Hickenbottom. Still a fan of a Shawn too, but Bret was the more consistent worker, better story teller, better leader, and was able to give a lot of guys their best match of their careers
I would love to see Jim break down all of the wrestlers/former wrestlers who are unsafe in the ring because kicking someone in the head and shortening someone's career sounds unsafe as hell to me.
I love how Punk is quiet on AEW guys doing Qatar shows.
In Bret book he said he was getting ready for a WWE return in 2003 but had a motorcycle accident then a stroke.
When I was growing up, my two favorite wrestlers were Bret and Shawn. I felt that both were fantastic at story telling but just did it in two different ways. I really wish that the people that idolized Michaels that ended up in the industry studied his story-telling ability rather than the moveset. They are the same people that will like a great action movie like Die Hard solely because Bruce Willis had bloody feet and said "mother fucker". People like the Bucks are not particularly smart.
Bret is one of the greatest wrestlers of all time. For me he was too serious and lacked the ability to have fun so he wasn't very versatile. Kurt Angle is also one of the greatest wrestlers of all time but he knew how to be serious and comedic so he was much more well rounded and versatile than Bret. Would've been a great match between the two.
I don't understand the logic of this comment at all. The attitude era and his character were based on just that, being very serious and not making a joke of the world title picture. That last thing on earth Bret should have EVER been was comedic. It was the seriousness and realism of him that got him over, not being clownish and making things into a joke. There is a time and place for that and personalities who fit that, but that would have been the dumbest move ever for Bret Hart. I don't see how anyone who was a fan in the 90's could think Bret need to be less serious and more comedic, That sounds like a younger fan from today who was not around back then. Imagine saying Goldberg needed to be more comedic in 1998. That's the dumbest thing I have ever heard.
I think a lot of the seriousness of Bret regarding wrestling stems from him looking up to his dad so much. His dad was a serious and stoic man when it came to wrestling, so Bret emulated that. IMO that seriousness is why he was able to be such a great heel when the need called for it. Plus being a serious face amidst some of the more fantastical or over the top faces made him standout at the time, so I think he was in the right place at the right time for his style of wrestling, IMO.
Bret is not my favorite. But him vs. Kurt is probably my favorite dream match. Then Flair vs. Walter. Then Samoa Joe vs. Walter. Followed by Walter vs. Ishii. Pretty much anyone versus Walter.
Yeah and I bet people wish they took the business a quarter of what Bret did. Maybe it wouldn't be the drizzling shits with less people watching on tv or live than ever.
@@Orange6921 who are you to doubt el dandy! lol but in all seriousness im with you...
Wow. "The heartbreak kid". I just now got it. Duh....