I think that the WWE: Greatest Rivalries - Shawn Michaels vs. Bret Hart dvd done in 2011 was better than this documentary done by A&E as they had JR sit down with both Bret and Shawn and discuss both of their careers. They also went more in depth as to the events leading up to Montreal.
@@HunterofMonsters89 He didn't. You seem to forget that he was popping pills and drinking alcohol like a mad man. If you actually understood how that stuff effects the brain, he wasn't acting like he did not remember, he absolutely did not remember.
I agree with Cornette also and how the product just looked so much better 20 years ago. Bret Hart and HBK make most modern wrestlers and wrestling look like absolute dogshit. I'll watch a 20-30 year old Bret Hart or Shawn Michaels match over 95% of today's spotfest, outlaw, no-selling garbage.
The last time we had pretty much a steady Streak of great match styles was 2003-2005 smackdown. That was the last great promotion that was solid inside and outside the ring.
@@juangraciaofficial As soon as I walked in on my brother laughing and watching that match I couldn’t wait to hear Corny rip that BS match apart hahaha.
Whether Bret or Shawn is your preference,Jim is right…watching this stuff back is MIND BLOWING,specifically Bret Hart. He was SO GOOD and just so….everything a wrestler should be in the ring. The selling,the faces,the entrance,the severity of a blow. Its just night and day to ANYTHING we see now. Michaels charisma is UNTOUCHABLE.
Bret made every move/hit look excruciating. His selling was great but not over the top (the only thing negative i could say about hbk’s ring work). Montreal was just the culmination of what could go wrong, did go wrong imo.
@@bash8387 I see a interview once where he said Edge, Christian, Mark Henry, Giant Silva, Test and Ken Shamrock all trained at his house in his garden. He put a ring up by his pool.
Thought the same thing while watching. If you forgot how damn good, how crisp, how believable Bret was and how well these two could tell a story together, helluva reminder.
And then, with the way he took the belt off Bret, The Montreal Screw Job, it turned Bret into the talk of the wrestling business. So much so, Eric coming out with nWo on Nitro the next night and saying "Something Canadian is coming" made the fans go and wanted to check out WCW. If Eric booked Bret better, think it would have made it worse for Vince.
I remember how terrible the NWO sang Oh Canada and when Eric called Bret a "knockout kind of guy" when he found out that Bret punched Vince. Hogan said "Well he passed the initiation!"
Probably not. The war was on a real knife edge at the time, and WCW claiming that the WWF is so poor that even the champion was handing over his belt to come for some real competition may just have tipped the scales permanently.
Shawn and Brett's fingerprints are all over the wrestling business today. I don't think this is spoken of enough. Almost every athletic talent uses shades of Shawn and just about all of the great workers today have shades of Brett.
@@derpderpin1568 Well WWE and WCW were the biggest American wrestling company in the 80's and 90's. Flair, Steamboat, Dusty and Savage to name a few were big influences for the stars of the 90's. Correct me if I'm wrong but I don't see alot of Stone Cold, Rock or Taker type wrestlers running around. Were as the super kick is damn near everywhere and guys like Punk, FTR and Danielson talk alot about Brett's influences on them. Those are just a few examples without going through a whole history of wrestling in this comment post. So I think that was pretty genuous.
My favorite soundbite was "I have never heard Bruce Pritchard's honesty being questioned. Why, I've never even heard it mentioned!". That cracked me up! Cornette really throws out some zingers!
@@stevenbenson9976 he didn't refuse to drop the title. He refused to drop the title to Shawn Michaels because HBK wouldn't lose to him and countless others.
Got to see Bret vs Shawn at a house show at the Erwin Center in Austin TX in March of 96. Undertaker, Razor Ramon and Diesel all no showed but Bret and Shawn went on in the main event and made it all worth it.
We can all be real the screwjob is more of a case of bret being a supermark for himself. I get why he didnt want to drop the belt to shawn again, but i can understand vince couldnt trust that whole relinquish the belt the next night on raw stuff.
@@universe-ie2mk Bret offered to drop the belt , he just wouldn’t drop it to Michaels. Bret dropped the belt to Yoko , Backlund , he put Sid over the day after winning the title on raw and put Michaels at wrestlemania. Bret had no problem dropping belts
I can think of several more "Rivals" that they could have done such as Sgt. Slaughter vs. The Iron Sheik, Ric Flair vs. Ricky Steamboat, Edge and Christian vs. The Hardys, Randy Orton vs. John Cena, The New Day vs. The Usos, Bruno Sammartino vs. Larry Zybysko for starters.
Idk the time-line of when Vince told Bret to go negotiate with WCW, but Bret had just won the WWF Title from Undertaker at the end of August that year at Summerslam. So Bret's reign was only a few months long. I don't understand why Vince put the belt on him if he wanted him gone.
A few things- 1. Listening to this and thinking it over, it really was Vince who screwed Bret, from beginning to end. The contract, the match, everything. Sure Shawn did his part, but the whole thing of having Bret drop to Shawn and not someone else, was stupid. Granted Bret could have just dropped to Shawn to be done and make it smooth and go to WCW, but at the point and all ge dealt with, why should he? This was in an era where the character and the losses actually meant something, so I agree, Bret did nothing wrong. 2. Shawn didn’t draw as champ as they say, but hate Shawn all you want, but the whole WWF sucked in 96. It wasn’t till 97 where things were starting to change with less goofy characters, Austin finding his character, Shawn embracing his asshole self and doing the DX deal. Then WWF started to really pick up. Brian and Cornette never cared for DX and all the antics, but you can’t deny it was popular and people were tuning in.
Shawn did have some pretty good matches in 96 though he didnt draw well. Him vs mankind comes to mind. But my biggest peeve was not getting the belt off bret sooner. I do agree with your point too that bret could have did the job with hbk to be done with it but like you said, character mattered back then
I stopped watching wrestling 20 years ago. Tried watching RAW a few years ago along with AEW. Wrestling is atrocious and blatantly fake looking nowadays. I am addicted to this channel however. Cornette's perspective and history lessons on the industry are fantastic to listen to.
Yes. For long time we all know it was more just a show not so much a real competition. I known that clear back in early 1970's. I saw now appear Nash trying make money on UA-cam The Klick or something he calling trying call it. Talking how great they was. That was the very same group I feel exposed the business a lot more than poor Duggan & Iron Sheik getting busted riding together drinking & caught with dope A heel & Baby Face working a angle. Plus Nash I think is the slowest moving laziest wrestler I ever seen in my life. 30 + years ago that group try pull that stunt. Cops would found them in some dirt road side ditch somewhere & none would known or remember what happened to them over That Curtain Call dumb *** stunt. That was A pretty stupid stunt. They had to been on bunch dumb pills or dope during that time period. What they did was just wrong. Rest them people was trying feed there families & they was too busy working together trying advance there own careers at cost of others. Pretty sad to think about there piss poor attitude at that time period.
Love Bret.. Hated Shawn as a Character.. Bret Hart style of wrestling looked real, looked clean and tight and I love that he took the business seriously.. I don't care what people know about Pro Wrestling Today still take it seriously.. People knew what was going on back then but they kinda respected the business cause the wrestlers took it seriously..
I find it amazing that they get people like Kofi Kingston and Tamina to do shows like this but Jim who was actually there and has lots to say about it.
Jim is a biased POS. Kofi was a fan and Tamina grew up in the business. Both of them would give an unique viewpoint on it and do not carry the inherent bias Cornette had Cornette would spend the entire time crapping on Shawn and it would do nothing for the doc.
It's kind of ironic when you consider how Shawn's unprofessionalism actually ended up helping in the long-run though out the '90s; if he'd just handed the IC Title back when he failed that drug test, he probably wouldn't have had that Ladder Match at WM10, if it wasn't for the Curtain Call HHH would have probably still won King of the Ring '96 and if he hadn't been a prick with Bret the Austin vs. Mr McMahon feud probably wouldn't have had much heat behind it (there was still stuff which could have set it up from when Austin got his neck injury but I'd say Vince objecting to him being on the show in kayfabe was perfectly reasonable so Montreal was an essential part of this in my opinion).
The interesting thing about the A&E Biography and the A&E Rivals is this…….these shows are 100% BETTER than the wrestling that the WWE is putting out now 🫠🫠🫠🫠🤫😂😂😂😂😂😂😂
I'd always thought, like Brian, that McMahon's desire to put the belt on Shawn seems irrational, but Bruce has said that the plan to eventually put the belt on Austin was already in place... So, it makes sense that Shawn vs. Austin at Mania is probably a bigger draw than a Hart vs. Austin rematch ...
It obviously worked out and I agree a rematch between Bret/Austin probably wouldn't have drawn as well(of course with how hot Austin was and Tyson being there I don't think it would've mattered much who the champion was) but I think it was insane that Vince would've trusted Shawn to be the one to pass the torch to Austin at Mania considering Shawn's history up until that point. On top of him "losing his smile" the year prior to get out of a job he was notorious for never dropping any belts but instead taking his ball and going home and forfeiting them. The only time he did was to Sid and that was only cause they promised him he'd win it back in his hometown 2 months later. Also at that time Shawn openly said on TV and behind the scenes(if you're to believe was some wrestlers have said) that he is "Done doing jobs and he's not laying down for nobody." There's a reason Taker sat at gorilla with his hands taped for the Austin match cause even he wasn't sure if Shawn would actually do business. COnsidering how important it was to giveAustin the belt at Mania it seems like an unnecessary risk on WWE's part to trust Shawn to do it.
I know the MSJ has been beaten to death and I'm sicking of arguing over who was right, who was wrong, what could've happened etc. but it always bothers me how WWE paints the narrative that Survivor Series was Bret's last night in the company and he became WCW property the next day when that is completely false. There's a reason why Bret wasn't on WCW till 3 weeks later in December cause that was when his contract started! It didn't start the next night. Also Bret was advertised for multiple WWE shows in November including at MSG, Bret had every intentions of working those shows going into SS but of course after getting screwed and punching out Vince that made Bret no show the rest of his WWE dates and sit at home until his WCW contract started. On a side note something that doesn't get talked about when discussing the MSJ is that Bret already filled the contractual obligation for dates for the year 1997 before Survivor Series so legally Bret didn't even have to do the match if he didn't want to and contractually he would've been legally allowed to do so without them claiming he breached it.
As someone who has watched wrestling for 40 plus years... this Rivals show was "at best"... a BRIEF (or edited) version of the original documentary about Bret v Shawn. Having Nash and JBL on that panel... no problem. As for the others... a HUGE waste! Having more of those who were in the company during that time, would have done A LOT BETTER! Maybe if they had Bret and Shawn, along with other legends, discussing the rivalry... could have and more than likely would have made that show, something special to watch.
Respect to Jim telling the truth about this episode and guys like Bruce just putting out the "company line". I watched this live in 1997. They leave out so much in these documentaries - espeicially the fact that Bret didn't want to leave even WWE. He tried and ultimately Vince pushed him out. What else is a guy supposed to do but go to the only other wrestling company at that time. But the WWE will CONSTANTLY spin a narrative that Bret left for greener pastures. You also have to love how the WWE spits out how wrong it would be for Bret to leave chamption. Does everyone just want to completely ignore the fact that they brought in Ric Flair with the NWA championship when he up and left in 1991? The hypocrisy and BS of trying to re-write history is pathetic. Fact is: Bret wanted to leave in a respectful fashion. He offered enough times to lose the belt to anyone and even said he would to Shawn the next night on live TV as long as Shawn could prove he would do the same. Remember, Bret was still under contract.
@@jayc6395 It had more to do with dropping the belt on PPV to a guy that not only told him to his face he would never return the favor Bret did to him at Mania 12, but had repeatedly found a way out of losing to Bret throughout the year ("losing his smile", the whole backstage fight incident weeks before a scheduled match at King of the Ring...)
Shawn's hair was escaping him not on the top but the side corner slowly since summer 97. When it's brushed out you couldn't tell, but in a ponytail for sure, especially when he starts sweating.
@@GOOSE-1334 Corny vs. Russo has cooled off considerably as far as interest from the IWC is concerned. Nobody seems to care what Russo has to say anymore, _bro._ Especially not about current wrestling, _bro._ His channel has all of 38.5k subscribers after eight years and most of his uploads don't get anywhere near 2k views. I've had his livestreams show up in my recommendations a few times and the numbers were pathetic. Might as well just have been members of his family and their pets watching, _bro._ Does anybody think that if Jim and Brian did livestreams of the "Drive-Thru", they would only have five dozen or so people as their real-time audience and only ten or fifteen dozen people watch it after the fact? You would think the supposed "architect, creator, and mastermind of the Attitude Era" could get more people to give a toss about his opinions, _bro_ ? Apparently not! _Bro!_
Exactly. Wish Bret would teach and be more involved with one of the two major companies. I love that Punks recent matches have been Bret’s style. Bryan is close when singles. But yeah nobody comes close. It looked REAL and more akin to UFC. Not just spots.
I think the sentiment expressed by Bret recently is accurate that it's a shame his and Michaels' issues prevented them from having more great matches. With Michaels adding a valid point on WWE Bump that if that was the case, who knows whether their rivalry would be as memorable as it is now. I think overall, both are right, but it comes down to - was it worth it? Was it worth having one of the most memorable rivalries in history when it involved so much hate, bad blood, hurt, backstabbing and ultimately pretty much irreparably and sadly altering the life of one of them while the other was on a path so wrong, he literally had to find faith and completely reshape his entire life before destroying himself? In the long run, they both lost here big time and IMO it wasn't worth it. It's just sad that two guys maybe not too far from each other at heart, just had to do each other like this. That Michaels couldn't be more professional and had to insult Bret on numerous occasions to the point Bret then was unprofessional in return when he should've dropped the title to Michaels.
Had their feud not ended up the way it did, there's a strong chance that the WWF's "attitude era" happens quite differently. No "Mr. McMahon" evil owner character as the perfect heel foil for the already incredibly popular Steve Austin in late 1997.
Vince is always working an angle. The truth as you told it is great for the lovers of inside baseball, but the story they told will get more viewers. AND Steph vs Brie has a huge niche reality tv fanbase
The one segment that I will never forget from their rivalry was the Bret heel turn where Shawn came out. You can feel the dislike they legit had. After watching that segment for the first time in 25 years, this might be the most uncomfortable, realistic yet incredible 15-20 minutes of 90’s wrestling that sums up why this era is good for fancy moves but when it comes to character work and promos, it doesn’t compare.
One thing I never understood is what was stopping Bischoff from saying the day before Survivor Series that he signed Bret. The contract was already signed so Bischoff could have said it at anytime before SS.
@@chrischar9428 LOl Eric is a pathological liar. Eric's "agreement" means squat. Eric absolutely would have crowed about signing the WWF champion if Bret had kept the title, belt or not belt. LOL at people who think Eric would keep his word after all the stuff he did pull in his career.
@@chriskay1449 and he didn't want to piss off his new star. Therefore the star asks and Eric agrees. Why piss off your new star who is unsure in the 1st place
19:42 Shawn as a babyface champion wasnt a success, but he didn't bomb any worse than Nash, Bret, Sid or Taker did. No matter who they put the belt on from 95 to 97, no one was moving the needle. And the WWF was still going back n forth with victories over WCW with Shawn as champion until the nWo happened in the summer of 96. And putting the belt back on Shawn was clearly the right move cause business was absolutely going up during his heel DX run even before Austin got the belt.
Not to mention he only had Sid, Vader and Bulldog to work with. There wasn’t much star power on the roster compared to WCW. They had NWO, Sting, Randy Savage, Ric Flair, Lex Luger and more.
What’s sad about all of this is that there wasn’t enough angles with eachother. Imagined they played off eachother in a angle where they became a temporary friends turn rival. So much possibilities.
Bret stated that the goal was originally for Bret to eventually lose one final time to Shawn in '98, turn face and become friends with Shawn. Sadly, they then became actual enemies and then Vince told him to go to WCW
This is what Vince McMahon forgot. Bret was a natural babyface and Shawn was a natural heel. Even when the roles were reversed and Bret was playing a heel and Shawn a babyface, the fans still didn't really accept them as such. Yes, Bret was a great heel when he did the time where he was hated in America and loved everywhere else, but thats the thing. He was still a babyface everywhere else!!
The Montreal Screwjob will always be an unfortunate chapter in the WWE. And hearing Cornette's first hand account on the way the top brass in the WWE was thinking at that time made a lot of things make sense. It is indeen a huge blackeye, but after the events that unfolded in the next few years I dare say that it is a necessary one. Without it, the evil Mr. McMahon character would never be born. And without Mr. McMahon, I doubt Stone Cold Steve Austin would have been as over as he was - he was practically living the very dream of a lot of ordinary humans to beat the living hell on the boss, the authority. And without the Mr. McMahon-Stone Cold rivalry, I don't know if the Attitude Era would ever really be as successful or even be a thing.
I thought it was pretty good. I just don't like as Jim says the "talking heads". I am a huge WWE fan but I would decline doing an interview because I wasn't there.
They should've never put the title back on Bret at SummerSlam '97. That's the fixed point. If the belt had been left on the Undertaker instead of giving Hitman what would be his 5th & final reign, the Montreal Screwjob doesn't happen...
I love Cornette.. but Brian Last is little ridiculous with his hate for Vince and Shawn. Cornette explained the reason why they didn't trust Eric Bischoff and Last still blames Shawn. Completely ridiculous.
Point of correction: Bret had "reasonable creative control" which isn't necessarily the same thing as "creative control." While I agree that they should have never given that to Bret if they didn't intend to honor it, I'm sure the company position would be that they tried everything possible to satisfy the "reasonable" requirement.
@@Erlewyn It's been ages since I've seen that film, so I can't remember. That sounds about right though. Bret had some measure of creative control, but not absolute control a la Hogan and his WCW contract.
@@Erlewyn If that had been the case, Bret wouldn't have had a leg to stand on with his "I can't lose in Canada, the children will lose all hope for the future if I do" nonsense. I'm not saying you're wrong, but if that was the phrasing in the contract, how did the bickering and negotiating drag on for weeks?
From what I understand Bret had control over who he lost to on the way out as not to get buried on the way out. It was basically burial protection so he could go out looking strong.
There was so many ways they could have booked it to get the title off of Bret. But for some bizarre reason they were intent on embarrasing Bret by having Michaels beat him on PPV in Canada.
Shawn in Montreal, one of my favorite promos, nuclear heat from the crowd. The Bella twins were 2 of the worst women's wrestlers ever. They got their success because of Cena & Bryan.
Wrong. The Bellas were favorites of the office and each had their first title reign before they started dating Cena and Bryan. Hell, Brie got her first reign before Bryan was even in the company. They are not the worst womes wrestlers ever when the likes of Summer Rae and Jackie Gayda exist. You can hate the Bellas, but don't lie about what actually happened.
One was halfway decent in the ring by old "Divas" standards, but couldn't hang with the Bayleys, Beckies, and Charlottes. I think the one without all the aftermarket stripper enhancement parts who is married to Bryan Danielson and named like a French cheese? The other one was just the shits. I wonder what their family gatherings with mom and dear ol' stepdad are like these days?
Things that will always be beautiful to watch and pretty much don't see such things anymore -Bret Hart's Russian leg sweep -Bret's facial expressions of being "worn out/pain" -Bret's turnbuckle smack -Bret's floating suplex -HBK's story selling through facials and use of ropes -HBK's flying forearm -Mr. Perfect's perfect-plex -Mr. Perfect's standing dropkick -Jerry Lawler's punches -Owen Hart's chain wrestling -Kurt Angle's head duck from a punch -Kurt Angle's reversals -Eddie Guerrero throwing personality into the matches -legit tag team wrestling chemistry -Razor Ramon punching style -Undertaker's float over rope landing on feet. -
Only wrestler that comes close to doing such beautiful motions nowadays or has that special type of flare to their matches where they move with such purpose and actually have an IQ in putting on a match are AJ Styles and Randy Orton. The only type of "new generation style" that looks decent enough that could make wrestling feel like old school but new and needed was NXT Pete Dunne and Walter.
Saw the list of rivalries advertised, great choices: Shawn vs. Bret, Rock vs. Stone Cold, Edge vs. Cena, and then… Brie Bella vs. Stephanie? 🤨 🎶One of these is not like the other🎶
They did have the whole “Bryan vs the Authority” thing going for it. I’m sure Steph would never be that delusional to have a whole A&E special dedicated to one of her rivalries…right? 🥺
They obviously ran out of viable options. I'm sure they could've thought of a Hogan one but I bet anything Hogan would've wanted $50 million for it or something.
I dunno why WWE didn’t just explain the concern Re: Bischoff on the screw job. WWE even had a whole Raw episode post Survivor Series where they noted that November 30th was Bret’s last day under contract. Yet they keep telling that lie.
WWE’s recent, feeble drum beating on this story continues to just kill the mystique and intrigue about the story. I think a LOT OF US are just so tired of it at this point.
Could have been such a better rivalry and story if both guys was on the same page! Not to mention WCW would go on to drop the ball with Hart and not do anything with him.
@@southsudani983 I get that but damn the way Bret talks about himself, like 90% of wrestlers do, is just eye rolling..wrestlers have such egos man for no reason
I was a kid entering High School when this happened. But Corny's right. We didnt know much about the inner workings of wrestling or let alone put the pieces together. But it was entertaining. I as a kid didnt understood the rivalry, but you seen it because it was obvious. And you literally felt it. It was intense. I watched that PPV. I watched Brett spit on Vince. Boy that was something. Lol
@@1stKindChris Right. Just because Nash was in WCW doesn’t mean they stopped talking via phone. I’m sure they talked to each other a bit during this time period. Nash was trying to get Shawn to come to WCW.
@@Beer_Baron_ maybe my timeline of events is wrong. I thought him and Bret fought and then he approached McMahon and company right after. But according to you all, he fought Bret then immediately called Nash and THEN spoke with McMahon with a clump of hair in his hand..... makes much more sense your way
With regards to Bret showing up on Nitro with the belt or as WWF champion, I don't believe WCW could've let that happen either, seeing as they were already being sued to high hell over the Madusa thing as well as Nash and Hall
Corny states that getting Bret to drop the belt to Shamrock, that "he would've saw that coming". No. Not only does Bret speak highly of Shamrock, the two are friends and he also claimed he would have been more than happy to drop the belt to Shamrock, Taker or Austin, anybody. Just not Shawn then.
Corny said exactly what you are saying in the interview with Sean Oliver from KC. Bret was more than willing to drop the title to Taker, Foley, Shamrock and/or Austin. Was Shamrock trained at the Dungeon? I remember reading something like that somewhere
I think this series is gonna be awesome. Good first episode. Nice to hear bret admit it was both their faults. That's how i always saw it. Three people (Bret, Shawn, Vince) couldn't act like adults
Bret vs Shawn has always been my favorite wwe rivalry..But yes ..if Shawn acted right or his personal mess..they definitely would have had more matches..before SS 97....hell we didn't get the match they made on raw..with the hart foundation handcuffed around the ring....But I saw that Stephanie Vs Brie Featured...WTFFFF!!!🤢🤢🤢🤢🤢🤢
Always pisses me off when Brian disagrees with Jim on anything about Montreal, he was there, you know what we know Brian, from reading about it and watching documentaries 😂 shoosh and let the expert talk please...
@@davidnelson4347 Brian King of crypto, "I worked at Sony!", hater of biscuits and gravy, 40 year old child mentally and physically, Jericho lives free in his head forever Last
I love how Brian blames it all on Shawn...Bret was just as much of a diva as HBK...and dishonest in a lot of his contradictory statements. Lmao what a mark.
I think that the WWE: Greatest Rivalries - Shawn Michaels vs. Bret Hart dvd done in 2011 was better than this documentary done by A&E as they had JR sit down with both Bret and Shawn and discuss both of their careers. They also went more in depth as to the events leading up to Montreal.
What I hated about the 2011 one though was how many times Shawn was acting like he did not remember stuff just to dodge accountability
100% absolutely
@@HunterofMonsters89 semi true but the format, deep dive, and full breakdown was well worth it.
@@benjaminubben4436 that’s for sure! Lol
@@HunterofMonsters89 He didn't. You seem to forget that he was popping pills and drinking alcohol like a mad man. If you actually understood how that stuff effects the brain, he wasn't acting like he did not remember, he absolutely did not remember.
I agree with Cornette also and how the product just looked so much better 20 years ago. Bret Hart and HBK make most modern wrestlers and wrestling look like absolute dogshit. I'll watch a 20-30 year old Bret Hart or Shawn Michaels match over 95% of today's spotfest, outlaw, no-selling garbage.
Every match those two guys ever had with anyone felt exactly the same.
@@derpderpin1568 talking out of your ass.
The last time we had pretty much a steady Streak of great match styles was 2003-2005 smackdown. That was the last great promotion that was solid inside and outside the ring.
Yes like the wrestlemania 12 event that iron man fight was a 10/10 looked like a real technical wrestling match
I love the modern wrestling rants but THIS is really the reason I love Corny’s show, the wrestling history behind the scenes stuff.
I agree. Even tho my favorite thing is him going off on Olivia, the bucks, shit stain or the observer dude. Can’t think of his name.
@@letsssgooo4618 Dave Meltzer
@@letsssgooo4618 Speaking of that, can't wait for him to review Wardlow vs Orange cassidy
@@juangraciaofficial As soon as I walked in on my brother laughing and watching that match I couldn’t wait to hear Corny rip that BS match apart hahaha.
@@letsssgooo4618The Bucks? The NBA team? Is he a fan of professional basketball? I'm honestly asking because that's pretty cool if he is.
Whether Bret or Shawn is your preference,Jim is right…watching this stuff back is MIND BLOWING,specifically Bret Hart. He was SO GOOD and just so….everything a wrestler should be in the ring. The selling,the faces,the entrance,the severity of a blow. Its just night and day to ANYTHING we see now. Michaels charisma is UNTOUCHABLE.
I would love to see Bret as a trainer
Bret made every move/hit look excruciating. His selling was great but not over the top (the only thing negative i could say about hbk’s ring work). Montreal was just the culmination of what could go wrong, did go wrong imo.
@@bash8387 I see a interview once where he said Edge, Christian, Mark Henry, Giant Silva, Test and Ken Shamrock all trained at his house in his garden. He put a ring up by his pool.
Thought the same thing while watching. If you forgot how damn good, how crisp, how believable Bret was and how well these two could tell a story together, helluva reminder.
@@glasschin871 he definitely helped Ken Shamrock teaching him how not to work too stiff.
And then, with the way he took the belt off Bret, The Montreal Screw Job, it turned Bret into the talk of the wrestling business. So much so, Eric coming out with nWo on Nitro the next night and saying "Something Canadian is coming" made the fans go and wanted to check out WCW. If Eric booked Bret better, think it would have made it worse for Vince.
I remember how terrible the NWO sang Oh Canada and when Eric called Bret a "knockout kind of guy" when he found out that Bret punched Vince. Hogan said "Well he passed the initiation!"
The Attitude Era still would have destroyed WCW. Nothing was going to stop the Stone Cold explosion.
Probably not. The war was on a real knife edge at the time, and WCW claiming that the WWF is so poor that even the champion was handing over his belt to come for some real competition may just have tipped the scales permanently.
@@TeddyKGB12 They sure weren't gonna win with Hogan.
@@TeddyKGB12 To this day, I don't get why so many people loved Stone Cold. I hated his schtick and groaned during his time on top.
Bret Hart and Shawn Michaels is the greatest rivalry in pro-wrestling history.
Not better than Austin Vs McMahon
Cornette vs Omega clears
@@Fozzie420 Not as great as Cornette vs Vince Russo
@Joseph Kerr Cornette Vs Omega is slowly catching up though.
Cornette vs Young Bucks
The ‘Montreal ScrewJob’ will be Milked until the End of Time but it’s always Compelling to Revisit ….
I mean, it’s the single biggest moment to ever exist in wrestling
As long as Brett is alive. He can not let it go! I love Brett, but for god sakes let it go! It rules his life
@@robwilliamson9056 it's wwe not Bret
As much as Bret says he has, he will never truly get over Montreal. Neither he nor Vince will ever let it die.
It was a work.
Shawn and Brett's fingerprints are all over the wrestling business today. I don't think this is spoken of enough. Almost every athletic talent uses shades of Shawn and just about all of the great workers today have shades of Brett.
Really good assessment
Acting like these were the only athletic wrestlers is just so lame and disingenuous. So many of todays great workers didn't even watch WWE/F.
@@derpderpin1568 Well WWE and WCW were the biggest American wrestling company in the 80's and 90's. Flair, Steamboat, Dusty and Savage to name a few were big influences for the stars of the 90's. Correct me if I'm wrong but I don't see alot of Stone Cold, Rock or Taker type wrestlers running around. Were as the super kick is damn near everywhere and guys like Punk, FTR and Danielson talk alot about Brett's influences on them. Those are just a few examples without going through a whole history of wrestling in this comment post. So I think that was pretty genuous.
That's a fact!
Exactly!
My favorite soundbite was "I have never heard Bruce Pritchard's honesty being questioned. Why, I've never even heard it mentioned!". That cracked me up! Cornette really throws out some zingers!
I think that Bruce was right that it wasn't Brett's choice. He had reasonable creative control. Refusing to drop the title is not really reasonable
@@stevenbenson9976 he didn't refuse to drop the title. He refused to drop the title to Shawn Michaels because HBK wouldn't lose to him and countless others.
@@stevenbenson9976 I personally think that if they'd suggested that Bret drop it to Taker in Montreal, Bret would've done it.
@@dubiouscaesar3709 Hell, I think that if they had Shawn lose via shenanigans on the go home Raw before the Series, he would have done it.
Got to see Bret vs Shawn at a house show at the Erwin Center in Austin TX in March of 96. Undertaker, Razor Ramon and Diesel all no showed but Bret and Shawn went on in the main event and made it all worth it.
Are you sure they no showed? Wwf could've switched them to the B town loop.
I really enjoyed that. And the fact that they eventually decided to patch things up before going out.
I would hope this doc would finally end all the clowns saying they still hate each other, but it won't.
We can all be real the screwjob is more of a case of bret being a supermark for himself. I get why he didnt want to drop the belt to shawn again, but i can understand vince couldnt trust that whole relinquish the belt the next night on raw stuff.
@@universe-ie2mk just stop.
@@universe-ie2mk Bret offered to drop the belt , he just wouldn’t drop it to Michaels. Bret dropped the belt to Yoko , Backlund , he put Sid over the day after winning the title on raw and put Michaels at wrestlemania.
Bret had no problem dropping belts
@@glasschin871 He doesn't know the history.. Bret put over other wrestlers and drop the belt when Vince told him to..
They had a version of “Rivals” in the early network days… I remember the Rhodes x Flair documentary being very good.
They did Rhodes and flair, Bret and Shawn and Hogan and Randy savage.
I can think of several more "Rivals" that they could have done such as Sgt. Slaughter vs. The Iron Sheik, Ric Flair vs. Ricky Steamboat, Edge and Christian vs. The Hardys, Randy Orton vs. John Cena, The New Day vs. The Usos, Bruno Sammartino vs. Larry Zybysko for starters.
Brian Last commenting like he was right there in the locker room always cracks me up.
Bruce Prichard is the Kellyanne Conway of the WWE.
"I've never before heard Bruce's honesty questioned. In fact, I've never heard it mentioned."
I will never grow tired of the Bruce Prichard jokes.
not even jokes, if Bruce wasn't like that, Jim wouldn't say it lol
Brian and Jim should know. They like to bend the truth themselves.
Every time you hear him speak, the voice may be Pritchard’s, but the words are Vince McMahon’s.
Bruce Prichard the infamous WWF/E child molester. How the hell is he not in prison yet?
Idk the time-line of when Vince told Bret to go negotiate with WCW, but Bret had just won the WWF Title from Undertaker at the end of August that year at Summerslam. So Bret's reign was only a few months long. I don't understand why Vince put the belt on him if he wanted him gone.
"Cosplay Trampoline Cowboys."
I fucking love this guy....
Agreed Cornette, looking back at these matches, they are like night and day compared to today's wrestling.
Yeah. Today is better.
"I remember the hunk of hair. Looked like a possum" - Jim Cornette
Imagine the money WWE could make if they had backstage footage of all the real life arguments and altercations between Bret and Shawn.
People call Montreal a work enough as it is. They’d really be screaming work if they had footage of Hartford.
@@MichaelSmith-fq6hz Let it be.. If it sells tickets let people think what's real and what's kayfabe.. That's the point..
A few things-
1. Listening to this and thinking it over, it really was Vince who screwed Bret, from beginning to end. The contract, the match, everything. Sure Shawn did his part, but the whole thing of having Bret drop to Shawn and not someone else, was stupid. Granted Bret could have just dropped to Shawn to be done and make it smooth and go to WCW, but at the point and all ge dealt with, why should he? This was in an era where the character and the losses actually meant something, so I agree, Bret did nothing wrong.
2. Shawn didn’t draw as champ as they say, but hate Shawn all you want, but the whole WWF sucked in 96. It wasn’t till 97 where things were starting to change with less goofy characters, Austin finding his character, Shawn embracing his asshole self and doing the DX deal. Then WWF started to really pick up. Brian and Cornette never cared for DX and all the antics, but you can’t deny it was popular and people were tuning in.
Shawn did have some pretty good matches in 96 though he didnt draw well. Him vs mankind comes to mind. But my biggest peeve was not getting the belt off bret sooner. I do agree with your point too that bret could have did the job with hbk to be done with it but like you said, character mattered back then
Late 96 things picked up in WWF.
And people was giving the rock hella go home heat in 97
I stopped watching wrestling 20 years ago. Tried watching RAW a few years ago along with AEW. Wrestling is atrocious and blatantly fake looking nowadays. I am addicted to this channel however. Cornette's perspective and history lessons on the industry are fantastic to listen to.
Yes. For long time we all know it was more just a show not so much a real competition. I known that clear back in early 1970's. I saw now appear Nash trying make money on UA-cam The Klick or something he calling trying call it. Talking how great they was. That was the very same group I feel exposed the business a lot more than poor Duggan & Iron Sheik getting busted riding together drinking & caught with dope A heel & Baby Face working a angle. Plus Nash I think is the slowest moving laziest wrestler I ever seen in my life. 30 + years ago that group try pull that stunt. Cops would found them in some dirt road side ditch somewhere & none would known or remember what happened to them over That Curtain Call dumb *** stunt. That was A pretty stupid stunt. They had to been on bunch dumb pills or dope during that time period. What they did was just wrong. Rest them people was trying feed there families & they was too busy working together trying advance there own careers at cost of others. Pretty sad to think about there piss poor attitude at that time period.
I don't share your opinion, at least not about AEW
Modern WWE is a cringe fest and I feel bad for wrestling fans.
Wrestlers used to be "the cool kids"
Now they're dorks like Sammy Zane
I'm really surprised that A&E brought up the "Sunny Days" thing.
WWE keeps repeating that Bret would take it to WCW, is a attempt to make their own actions less “Heelish”.
What did Shawn Michaels do to Brian Last?
That hair missing in the middle of Shawn's hair on the thumbnail had me rollin!!!! ROTFL!!!!!!!
Bret is such a legend. Best there is.
Even better than the Mantaur?
He's no El Dandy
Best there was...
@@johnnykeane9633 Best there ever will be!
Love Bret.. Hated Shawn as a Character.. Bret Hart style of wrestling looked real, looked clean and tight and I love that he took the business seriously.. I don't care what people know about Pro Wrestling Today still take it seriously.. People knew what was going on back then but they kinda respected the business cause the wrestlers took it seriously..
4:04 "What were you doing beforehand, featuring plumbers!?"
- TL Hopper enters the chat.
I find it amazing that they get people like Kofi Kingston and Tamina to do shows like this but Jim who was actually there and has lots to say about it.
Jim is a biased POS. Kofi was a fan and Tamina grew up in the business. Both of them would give an unique viewpoint on it and do not carry the inherent bias Cornette had Cornette would spend the entire time crapping on Shawn and it would do nothing for the doc.
@Malcolm Williams Nah, he would render it meaningless with all his BS. Only the brain washed cult members would think it was anything.
That would just be stupid like solar cars in Arizona or New Mexico
Americans are smarter than that they would see right though it
That's because Jim would tell the truth and not the WWE revised history.
@@NeilAlanBarker LOL Jim won't tell the truth. Jim will tell what HE thinks is the truth and his "truth" is just as much BS as anything WWE says.
"Dipshit is gonna lose his smile." Holy shit I died.
He hates HBK lol
Thank God Wrestlemania 97 wasn't a rematch because Bret vs Austin is my favorite WWE match I've ever seen
It's kind of ironic when you consider how Shawn's unprofessionalism actually ended up helping in the long-run though out the '90s; if he'd just handed the IC Title back when he failed that drug test, he probably wouldn't have had that Ladder Match at WM10, if it wasn't for the Curtain Call HHH would have probably still won King of the Ring '96 and if he hadn't been a prick with Bret the Austin vs. Mr McMahon feud probably wouldn't have had much heat behind it (there was still stuff which could have set it up from when Austin got his neck injury but I'd say Vince objecting to him being on the show in kayfabe was perfectly reasonable so Montreal was an essential part of this in my opinion).
We got the two matches but if things worked out differently imagine a Bret vs Austin feud during the Attitude era
@@scottdecowski4913 And Bret Hart won BOTH of them. Not many men are undefeated against Steve Austin. Mikey Whipwreck may also be on that short list.
@@tempestfennac9687 Ive always said its strange to think how so many things happened in Austins career that turned out for the better
"Bret is such an amazing guy, he should be so much madder", jeez if Bret was anymore bitter he'd be an ice cube!
The interesting thing about the A&E Biography and the A&E Rivals is this…….these shows are 100% BETTER than the wrestling that the WWE is putting out now 🫠🫠🫠🫠🤫😂😂😂😂😂😂😂
I'd always thought, like Brian, that McMahon's desire to put the belt on Shawn seems irrational, but Bruce has said that the plan to eventually put the belt on Austin was already in place... So, it makes sense that Shawn vs. Austin at Mania is probably a bigger draw than a Hart vs. Austin rematch ...
Bullshit
It obviously worked out and I agree a rematch between Bret/Austin probably wouldn't have drawn as well(of course with how hot Austin was and Tyson being there I don't think it would've mattered much who the champion was) but I think it was insane that Vince would've trusted Shawn to be the one to pass the torch to Austin at Mania considering Shawn's history up until that point. On top of him "losing his smile" the year prior to get out of a job he was notorious for never dropping any belts but instead taking his ball and going home and forfeiting them. The only time he did was to Sid and that was only cause they promised him he'd win it back in his hometown 2 months later. Also at that time Shawn openly said on TV and behind the scenes(if you're to believe was some wrestlers have said) that he is "Done doing jobs and he's not laying down for nobody." There's a reason Taker sat at gorilla with his hands taped for the Austin match cause even he wasn't sure if Shawn would actually do business. COnsidering how important it was to giveAustin the belt at Mania it seems like an unnecessary risk on WWE's part to trust Shawn to do it.
Remember though, Bruce's pants have a tendency to spontaneously combust a lot.
I know the MSJ has been beaten to death and I'm sicking of arguing over who was right, who was wrong, what could've happened etc. but it always bothers me how WWE paints the narrative that Survivor Series was Bret's last night in the company and he became WCW property the next day when that is completely false. There's a reason why Bret wasn't on WCW till 3 weeks later in December cause that was when his contract started! It didn't start the next night. Also Bret was advertised for multiple WWE shows in November including at MSG, Bret had every intentions of working those shows going into SS but of course after getting screwed and punching out Vince that made Bret no show the rest of his WWE dates and sit at home until his WCW contract started. On a side note something that doesn't get talked about when discussing the MSJ is that Bret already filled the contractual obligation for dates for the year 1997 before Survivor Series so legally Bret didn't even have to do the match if he didn't want to and contractually he would've been legally allowed to do so without them claiming he breached it.
agreed... so annoying
Facts 👍🏼👍🏼
As someone who has watched wrestling for 40 plus years... this Rivals show was "at best"... a BRIEF (or edited) version of the original documentary about Bret v Shawn.
Having Nash and JBL on that panel... no problem. As for the others... a HUGE waste!
Having more of those who were in the company during that time, would have done A LOT BETTER!
Maybe if they had Bret and Shawn, along with other legends, discussing the rivalry... could have and more than likely would have made that show, something special to watch.
That Travis Heckel with this art LMAO!!!!!!
Waiting on the guy to come n say "its not art"
Its not art, it's a horrible middle school level doodle! Art.. smh
Respect to Jim telling the truth about this episode and guys like Bruce just putting out the "company line". I watched this live in 1997. They leave out so much in these documentaries - espeicially the fact that Bret didn't want to leave even WWE. He tried and ultimately Vince pushed him out. What else is a guy supposed to do but go to the only other wrestling company at that time. But the WWE will CONSTANTLY spin a narrative that Bret left for greener pastures. You also have to love how the WWE spits out how wrong it would be for Bret to leave chamption. Does everyone just want to completely ignore the fact that they brought in Ric Flair with the NWA championship when he up and left in 1991? The hypocrisy and BS of trying to re-write history is pathetic. Fact is: Bret wanted to leave in a respectful fashion. He offered enough times to lose the belt to anyone and even said he would to Shawn the next night on live TV as long as Shawn could prove he would do the same. Remember, Bret was still under contract.
Has nothing to do with dropping belt in his home town...EGO!! PLAIN & SIMPLE.
@@jayc6395 It had more to do with dropping the belt on PPV to a guy that not only told him to his face he would never return the favor Bret did to him at Mania 12, but had repeatedly found a way out of losing to Bret throughout the year ("losing his smile", the whole backstage fight incident weeks before a scheduled match at King of the Ring...)
😂😂😂Lawler was taking a dump when the Bret/Shawn fight happened in the bathroom!
I love when Brian refers to Bruce as "Baghdad Bob."
Shawn's hair was escaping him not on the top but the side corner slowly since summer 97. When it's brushed out you couldn't tell, but in a ponytail for sure, especially when he starts sweating.
Shawn vs Bret is the 2nd Biggest Wrestling Rivalry behind Cornette vs Twinkletoes
Cornette V Meltzer is the big blow-off, he has to go through Harpo to get to Uncle Dave though
Or Cornette vs Shit stain
@@GOOSE-1334 Corny vs. Russo has cooled off considerably as far as interest from the IWC is concerned. Nobody seems to care what Russo has to say anymore, _bro._ Especially not about current wrestling, _bro._
His channel has all of 38.5k subscribers after eight years and most of his uploads don't get anywhere near 2k views. I've had his livestreams show up in my recommendations a few times and the numbers were pathetic. Might as well just have been members of his family and their pets watching, _bro._
Does anybody think that if Jim and Brian did livestreams of the "Drive-Thru", they would only have five dozen or so people as their real-time audience and only ten or fifteen dozen people watch it after the fact?
You would think the supposed "architect, creator, and mastermind of the Attitude Era" could get more people to give a toss about his opinions, _bro_ ? Apparently not! _Bro!_
Bret Hart's matches aged the best of anyone in wwe history. They were amazing back then and nowadays they blow anything today out of the water.
Exactly. Wish Bret would teach and be more involved with one of the two major companies. I love that Punks recent matches have been Bret’s style. Bryan is close when singles. But yeah nobody comes close. It looked REAL and more akin to UFC. Not just spots.
Ya Bret career and matches age like fine wine. He is such a legend
I think the sentiment expressed by Bret recently is accurate that it's a shame his and Michaels' issues prevented them from having more great matches. With Michaels adding a valid point on WWE Bump that if that was the case, who knows whether their rivalry would be as memorable as it is now.
I think overall, both are right, but it comes down to - was it worth it? Was it worth having one of the most memorable rivalries in history when it involved so much hate, bad blood, hurt, backstabbing and ultimately pretty much irreparably and sadly altering the life of one of them while the other was on a path so wrong, he literally had to find faith and completely reshape his entire life before destroying himself?
In the long run, they both lost here big time and IMO it wasn't worth it. It's just sad that two guys maybe not too far from each other at heart, just had to do each other like this. That Michaels couldn't be more professional and had to insult Bret on numerous occasions to the point Bret then was unprofessional in return when he should've dropped the title to Michaels.
If you don't want to wrestle/fight with someone you don't have to
Had their feud not ended up the way it did, there's a strong chance that the WWF's "attitude era" happens quite differently. No "Mr. McMahon" evil owner character as the perfect heel foil for the already incredibly popular Steve Austin in late 1997.
Loving the two solid clips of the Experience/Drive through dropping a day before the full podcast. Wets the pallett 👌🏻💯
Vince is always working an angle. The truth as you told it is great for the lovers of inside baseball, but the story they told will get more viewers. AND Steph vs Brie has a huge niche reality tv fanbase
The 2011 WWE dvd that went into this issue has already done this subject perfectly in my eyes.
The one segment that I will never forget from their rivalry was the Bret heel turn where Shawn came out. You can feel the dislike they legit had. After watching that segment for the first time in 25 years, this might be the most uncomfortable, realistic yet incredible 15-20 minutes of 90’s wrestling that sums up why this era is good for fancy moves but when it comes to character work and promos, it doesn’t compare.
Exactly . i just rewatched that.Shawn calls him 'mark man' . it was the first promo where i was like....wait a second ...this is real.
Or Shawn’s Canada accent
One thing I never understood is what was stopping Bischoff from saying the day before Survivor Series that he signed Bret. The contract was already signed so Bischoff could have said it at anytime before SS.
Probably something in said contract not allowing him to make the announcement
When his TV shows aired. He can't crow on TV to a live audience unless it is Monday.
Bret asked him not too. Eric agreed
@@chrischar9428 LOl Eric is a pathological liar. Eric's "agreement" means squat. Eric absolutely would have crowed about signing the WWF champion if Bret had kept the title, belt or not belt. LOL at people who think Eric would keep his word after all the stuff he did pull in his career.
@@chriskay1449 and he didn't want to piss off his new star. Therefore the star asks and Eric agrees. Why piss off your new star who is unsure in the 1st place
19:42 Shawn as a babyface champion wasnt a success, but he didn't bomb any worse than Nash, Bret, Sid or Taker did. No matter who they put the belt on from 95 to 97, no one was moving the needle. And the WWF was still going back n forth with victories over WCW with Shawn as champion until the nWo happened in the summer of 96.
And putting the belt back on Shawn was clearly the right move cause business was absolutely going up during his heel DX run even before Austin got the belt.
Not to mention he only had Sid, Vader and Bulldog to work with. There wasn’t much star power on the roster compared to WCW. They had NWO, Sting, Randy Savage, Ric Flair, Lex Luger and more.
@@magsxx9735 and Goldberg coming in and getting popular was a haymaker to WWF
The commentary on Vince and Jon hits different a year later..
I liked seeing their interaction in the end.
The bald spot on hbk's head is classic LOL
What’s sad about all of this is that there wasn’t enough angles with eachother. Imagined they played off eachother in a angle where they became a temporary friends turn rival. So much possibilities.
Bret stated that the goal was originally for Bret to eventually lose one final time to Shawn in '98, turn face and become friends with Shawn. Sadly, they then became actual enemies and then Vince told him to go to WCW
This is what Vince McMahon forgot. Bret was a natural babyface and Shawn was a natural heel. Even when the roles were reversed and Bret was playing a heel and Shawn a babyface, the fans still didn't really accept them as such. Yes, Bret was a great heel when he did the time where he was hated in America and loved everywhere else, but thats the thing. He was still a babyface everywhere else!!
Shawn Michaels August 97 to March 98 was the most entertaining version of HBK. DX put butts in the seat
Something I've not heard much of is that everyone looks over the fact that at summerslam 97 they took the belt off of taker and put it on bret
Although, that did lead to Hell in a Cell and the debut of Kane, so that bit worked out.
The Montreal Screwjob will always be an unfortunate chapter in the WWE. And hearing Cornette's first hand account on the way the top brass in the WWE was thinking at that time made a lot of things make sense. It is indeen a huge blackeye, but after the events that unfolded in the next few years I dare say that it is a necessary one. Without it, the evil Mr. McMahon character would never be born. And without Mr. McMahon, I doubt Stone Cold Steve Austin would have been as over as he was - he was practically living the very dream of a lot of ordinary humans to beat the living hell on the boss, the authority. And without the Mr. McMahon-Stone Cold rivalry, I don't know if the Attitude Era would ever really be as successful or even be a thing.
Wasn't even unfortunate for the reason you say. Bret was out of line for refusing to just do as he was told and drop the belt legitimately.
How can you believe anything Corny says on the screw job lol. The one two people who claims to thought of the screw job are Corny and Russo.
LOL love the 'cosplay trampoline cowboys".....JC always has a great description to offer!
I thought it was pretty good. I just don't like as Jim says the "talking heads". I am a huge WWE fan but I would decline doing an interview because I wasn't there.
23:47 Brian's reaction when jim tells him about the Steph rivalry lol lol
They should've never put the title back on Bret at SummerSlam '97. That's the fixed point. If the belt had been left on the Undertaker instead of giving Hitman what would be his 5th & final reign, the Montreal Screwjob doesn't happen...
Bingo.
Gets belt then suddenly can't pay him. Bullshit
There was a special a few years ago on the network basically the same show.
I love Cornette.. but Brian Last is little ridiculous with his hate for Vince and Shawn. Cornette explained the reason why they didn't trust Eric Bischoff and Last still blames Shawn. Completely ridiculous.
Completely agreed. I love hearing Jim talk, but Last has become so annoying to the point I’m starting to not even wanna listen to the podcast anymore.
Brian is cringe, he acts like as if he was there when all of this happened, some fans forget they're just fans nothing more 😂
Point of correction: Bret had "reasonable creative control" which isn't necessarily the same thing as "creative control." While I agree that they should have never given that to Bret if they didn't intend to honor it, I'm sure the company position would be that they tried everything possible to satisfy the "reasonable" requirement.
Isn't it on "wrestling with shadows" that he explains it as basically "freedom inside a match, but no control over the result" ?
@@Erlewyn It's been ages since I've seen that film, so I can't remember. That sounds about right though. Bret had some measure of creative control, but not absolute control a la Hogan and his WCW contract.
@@Erlewyn If that had been the case, Bret wouldn't have had a leg to stand on with his "I can't lose in Canada, the children will lose all hope for the future if I do" nonsense. I'm not saying you're wrong, but if that was the phrasing in the contract, how did the bickering and negotiating drag on for weeks?
Means he didn't have to lose to anyone he didn't want to
From what I understand Bret had control over who he lost to on the way out as not to get buried on the way out. It was basically burial protection so he could go out looking strong.
Why is brie bella vs stephanie McMahon a rivalry bs
There was so many ways they could have booked it to get the title off of Bret. But for some bizarre reason they were intent on embarrasing Bret by having Michaels beat him on PPV in Canada.
Shawn in Montreal, one of my favorite promos, nuclear heat from the crowd.
The Bella twins were 2 of the worst women's wrestlers ever.
They got their success because of Cena & Bryan.
Wrong. The Bellas were favorites of the office and each had their first title reign before they started dating Cena and Bryan. Hell, Brie got her first reign before Bryan was even in the company. They are not the worst womes wrestlers ever when the likes of Summer Rae and Jackie Gayda exist. You can hate the Bellas, but don't lie about what actually happened.
I don’t remember anything about Brie’s wrestling before she fucked up Liv Morgan, but Nikki Bella was definitely decent
One was halfway decent in the ring by old "Divas" standards, but couldn't hang with the Bayleys, Beckies, and Charlottes. I think the one without all the aftermarket stripper enhancement parts who is married to Bryan Danielson and named like a French cheese? The other one was just the shits.
I wonder what their family gatherings with mom and dear ol' stepdad are like these days?
Things that will always be beautiful to watch and pretty much don't see such things anymore
-Bret Hart's Russian leg sweep
-Bret's facial expressions of being "worn out/pain"
-Bret's turnbuckle smack
-Bret's floating suplex
-HBK's story selling through facials and use of ropes
-HBK's flying forearm
-Mr. Perfect's perfect-plex
-Mr. Perfect's standing dropkick
-Jerry Lawler's punches
-Owen Hart's chain wrestling
-Kurt Angle's head duck from a punch
-Kurt Angle's reversals
-Eddie Guerrero throwing personality into the matches
-legit tag team wrestling chemistry
-Razor Ramon punching style
-Undertaker's float over rope landing on feet.
-
Only wrestler that comes close to doing such beautiful motions nowadays or has that special type of flare to their matches where they move with such purpose and actually have an IQ in putting on a match are AJ Styles and Randy Orton.
The only type of "new generation style" that looks decent enough that could make wrestling feel like old school but new and needed was NXT Pete Dunne and Walter.
Saw the list of rivalries advertised, great choices: Shawn vs. Bret, Rock vs. Stone Cold, Edge vs. Cena, and then…
Brie Bella vs. Stephanie? 🤨
🎶One of these is not like the other🎶
They did have the whole “Bryan vs the Authority” thing going for it. I’m sure Steph would never be that delusional to have a whole A&E special dedicated to one of her rivalries…right? 🥺
🤮🤮🤮🤮🤮🤮🤮🤮
Edge vs Cena was only solid for like 2 months, then WWE blew it as usual. I have no idea why that’s with the others…
I can't believe that now that Johnny Ace is completely screwed they still want to push the idea that the Bellas are worth anything
They obviously ran out of viable options. I'm sure they could've thought of a Hogan one but I bet anything Hogan would've wanted $50 million for it or something.
I had to laugh at the moment when i think bruce said, that Bret could wrestle with a log or so cant remember the phrase and then they show him vs Nash
Hahahaha
I dunno why WWE didn’t just explain the concern Re: Bischoff on the screw job. WWE even had a whole Raw episode post Survivor Series where they noted that November 30th was Bret’s last day under contract. Yet they keep telling that lie.
Sweet. I was hoping you guys would cover these shows
WWE’s recent, feeble drum beating on this story continues to just kill the mystique and intrigue about the story. I think a LOT OF US are just so tired of it at this point.
Bret v. HBK
Rock v. Austin
Sub-Zero v. Scorpion
(My) Top 3 rivalries ever
Could have been such a better rivalry and story if both guys was on the same page! Not to mention WCW would go on to drop the ball with Hart and not do anything with him.
the best thing going good job Jim thank you guys
Bret was playing nice on this one when he kept saying "We" it was mostly Shawn's nasty attitude that always got in the way of everything
Not defending Shawn but Bret has a damn ego on him they both air headed divas
Not nearly as big of an ego diva as HBK though.. unlike Shawn Bret was willing to work with pretty much anyone
@@Sky_Blaze bret wasn’t selfish tho , he loved helping others
@@southsudani983 I get that but damn the way Bret talks about himself, like 90% of wrestlers do, is just eye rolling..wrestlers have such egos man for no reason
Nope a “toxic” relationship is *always* a two way street
I was a kid entering High School when this happened. But Corny's right. We didnt know much about the inner workings of wrestling or let alone put the pieces together. But it was entertaining. I as a kid didnt understood the rivalry, but you seen it because it was obvious. And you literally felt it. It was intense.
I watched that PPV. I watched Brett spit on Vince. Boy that was something. Lol
The worst part was when they made it sound like WWE was the first company to book a 60 minute match.
The graphic has me CRYINGGGGGGGGG 😭😭😭😭😭
“Unsafe Work Environment” sounds like something that would come out of Nash’s mouth.
I agree, only Nash was in WCW
100% but Nash wasn't there so he was probably advising Shawn from WCW
... or maybe it was HHH.
@@1stKindChris Right. Just because Nash was in WCW doesn’t mean they stopped talking via phone. I’m sure they talked to each other a bit during this time period. Nash was trying to get Shawn to come to WCW.
@@Beer_Baron_ maybe my timeline of events is wrong. I thought him and Bret fought and then he approached McMahon and company right after. But according to you all, he fought Bret then immediately called Nash and THEN spoke with McMahon with a clump of hair in his hand..... makes much more sense your way
The patch of Shawns hair that Jims ex wife has from Halifax, Nova Scotia is a great story.
Where is that posted?
@@bryankelloway6610 i dont remember he talked about in on a shoot like 7 years ago, may have breaking kayfabe
@@bryankelloway6610 ua-cam.com/video/oxJiaxK-1q8/v-deo.html
@@donmauro8123 It was on Keyfabe Commentaries.
I'll have to look for it
With regards to Bret showing up on Nitro with the belt or as WWF champion, I don't believe WCW could've let that happen either, seeing as they were already being sued to high hell over the Madusa thing as well as Nash and Hall
Bischoff was under orders not to however he could've gone on TV and said they'd signed the reigning WWF champion.
@@davidgriffithsbjjcoach7207 they could've still said that
@@drunkensailor112 I know that's the point.
I never heard Bruce's honest questioned. In fact I never heard it mentioned. Jim is a lyrical genius lmao
One more time Bret just wanted to stay in WWF. Vince pushed him out
Corny states that getting Bret to drop the belt to Shamrock, that "he would've saw that coming". No. Not only does Bret speak highly of Shamrock, the two are friends and he also claimed he would have been more than happy to drop the belt to Shamrock, Taker or Austin, anybody. Just not Shawn then.
Corny said exactly what you are saying in the interview with Sean Oliver from KC. Bret was more than willing to drop the title to Taker, Foley, Shamrock and/or Austin. Was Shamrock trained at the Dungeon? I remember reading something like that somewhere
Including Lombardi
I think this series is gonna be awesome. Good first episode. Nice to hear bret admit it was both their faults. That's how i always saw it. Three people (Bret, Shawn, Vince) couldn't act like adults
It was good to see Nash talked about Bret Hart and Shawn Michaels because he is friends with Bret and B.F.F.'s with Shawn.
Bret vs Shawn has always been my favorite wwe rivalry..But yes ..if Shawn acted right or his personal mess..they definitely would have had more matches..before SS 97....hell we didn't get the match they made on raw..with the hart foundation handcuffed around the ring....But I saw that Stephanie Vs Brie Featured...WTFFFF!!!🤢🤢🤢🤢🤢🤢
Dropping it to Ken Shamrock would have been good.
Vince wanted his lover to be champion.
The "StoryLine" that Gave Us TheMost Quoted Line of Wrestling History!
("You're Makin' Diana Look Like a Hoo-Ah!")
😂🤣🤣😂🤣🤣😂
I always wondered what Bret’s career would of been without it? Would of loved to see Bret have a second run in WWE
Should of just dropped it to Taker. Simple. Taker always been a good transition.
Always pisses me off when Brian disagrees with Jim on anything about Montreal, he was there, you know what we know Brian, from reading about it and watching documentaries 😂 shoosh and let the expert talk please...
Where is the full show???🤔🤔 It's not on the website
The thumbnail is too funny. HBK’s bald spot. 😂
You beat me to it lol 👨🦲
Brian talking as if he was there. He really does have a high opinion of himself.
Usually spoiled brats do
@@davidnelson4347 Brian King of crypto, "I worked at Sony!", hater of biscuits and gravy, 40 year old child mentally and physically, Jericho lives free in his head forever Last
@@tysontomko he must be fun at parties! Haha
I love how Brian blames it all on Shawn...Bret was just as much of a diva as HBK...and dishonest in a lot of his contradictory statements. Lmao what a mark.
Thanks for the artwork